Episode 9, Season 2: "Your Burning Questions Answered – Straight from Our Private Community" - The Love Doc Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner, CEO,
and founder of the Love Dog Podcast. You can see
her at the lovedog dot com all of her services.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey hey, hey, hey, how are you.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm doing really well. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I've been better, been better, been better. But that's okay.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
I'm here and I'm excited, uh, you know, for today's episode,
especially because it's really about you guys.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, it is something that we've been wanting to do
for a while.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
We're here to answer your questions.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
So, as you know, doctor Hensley has a free Facebook
community that anybody can join yep, and I moderate it, Yes,
And there you can go get support from others that
may be going through some of the similar circums, answers
that you and your partner are going through, or if
you're single, you can get advice support there. And then
of course doctor Hinsley goes in and answers questions when

(01:08):
she's able to. So we thought it'd be a great
idea to take some of those questions from the Facebook
group and answer them here yes semi live on today's podcast. Yes,
So all of your burning questions, and I think some
of I picked a slew of them. I think a
lot of them are general enough that it'll answer a

(01:33):
range of other people's questions that we might not get to,
of course, and it's not going to be a surprise
to anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
So many questions about the dismiss of avoidance.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Of course, And the fun thing is is that I
haven't seen the questions. Yeah, so I get to kind
of be on the spot. I like to challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, I love it too.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
It's an Interviet coaching. Yeah, yeah, I get to interview
Sara today sort of. Okay, so we'll get we'll get
started right out of the gate, and of course we're
going to keep everybody anonymous. I'm not going to say
any names, just to protect the people in that group.
So first question, why when you bring up something with
the DA and they do really good for a few days,

(02:11):
that they go back to doing what they were doing before.
Shortly after I even used positive reinforcement when I saw
that he was doing really well. I was talking to
him about communication and how I feel more connected when
we text throughout the day, and how I need consistency
not perfection. Now today, he's barely even texted and going

(02:32):
back to old behaviors.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yeah, this is actually a common question that I get,
and there's a very simple answer for it. It's because
they're spending a lot of time in the nervous system
state of freeze or this like dorsal vagel shutdown. And
one of the triggers of the dismissive avoidant is meeting
expectations of others. Because remember they're hyper independent. They really
want to preserve their autonomy and they almost have this

(02:55):
like spirit of rebellion. When they're asked to do something,
they almost makes them want to do it less. And
so what they try to do is they try to
meet the need of their partner. But when they're doing that,
they're kind of trying to white knuckle through their nervous
system around feeling burdened, around feeling trapped, around, feeling like
the expectation is too much. And then when essentially they

(03:18):
hit a wall, when they are out of self regulatory ability,
they just go back into that free state where they
don't feel like they can do it. It's just their
nervous system guiding them back to their old patterns. And
so that is why I talk so much about capacity
building in my coaching program, where we work with the

(03:38):
nervous system to be able to make real baseline changes
in how your nervous system functions around intimacy. And when
you make those baseline changes, then you're able to sustain
better behavior, right more secure behavior.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
But be more conscious of and be more.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Conscious of the behavior. But you're in a state of
safety in your nervous system which allows you to be
very deliberate and allows you to be very connected and
much more aware of your partner's needs. And so dismissive
avoidance definitely have those blinders on where when they were children,
they were sort of pushed into hyper independence too soon,

(04:12):
They were left alone a lot, they didn't feel like
they had a really great guide and their development, and
so the attention system of the brain, called the reticular
activating system or the RAS, really becomes very self directed,
and so they are very hyper focused on meeting their
own needs above everybody else's, and of course that tends
to kick in once commitment and longevity are, you know,

(04:35):
at play, until they do real capacity building work, just
telling them to do something different isn't going to work
because they can only push through those you know, nervous
system states and sort of use their self regulatory capacity
to do so for so long self regulations like a muscle,
and we eventually hit a wall and fatigue. So that's

(04:57):
really what's happening.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
So other than you know, going to your website and
checking out your services for something like this short term resolution,
you know, for this specific person asking this question. Of course,
without giving away you know, all your tips and tricks
and secrets, you know, what would you suggest.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, I might suggest it might be time to go
into a boundary space around what you need, and maybe
not just around what you need, but around them doing
the work to try to understand what is going on
within them that keeps them in that hyper self focused space,
you know, really getting to the bottom of that. And

(05:38):
I mean, if you do, you're going to figure out
it's a problem with the nervous system around intimacy. But
having the boundary around getting the help, yeah, right, to
be a better partner, instead of having the boundary around
the behavior, because again they're just going to do what
they did before, which is try to push through fatigue
and then give up and go back to old patterns.
Really without even recognizing that that's what's happening.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
And I think that's why achieving your own attachment security
first is so important, because then you're more apt to
be able to set those boundaries without the fear of
betrayal or abandonment.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Right. And if I've said it once, I'll say it
a million times. If asking for what you need pushes
someone away, they were never going to meet the need anyway.
So the point of a relationship is to be happy
and to not abandon yourself while also having reciprocity. Right.
But if you're afraid that it's going to push them away,

(06:34):
then what's the point of being in a relationship with them.
Then you're just doomed to be in a relationship where
someone consistently cannot meet your needs, and then you would
be abandoning yourself.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
And we if you've been listening or following doctor Hinsley
for any amount of time, then you know that one
of the big indicators for dismissive avoidance to change is loss.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yes, they actually they do not love your boundary. At first,
they may complain about them, but ultimately, at a subconscious level,
they respect your boundaries. They absolutely do not respect boundaryless
people because They're boundaries around intimacy and their time and
their space are so strict. So when they see you

(07:15):
dropping your boundaries to kind of hang on to them,
quote unquote, it kind of gives them an ick, and
so they respect you when you're like, no, this is
what I need and you actually are showing them in
that boundary space that you are okay without them, because
in that boundary space, your job is to work on
regulating your nervous system around the space, meeting your own

(07:36):
needs and standing strong in what you need and then
escalating the boundary if appropriate. Right if they're not moving
the needle in your direction. So I think that subconsciously
they see that and they're like, Okay, well I get it.
She's not playing around anymore, and good for her. She
can she's not totally dependent on me what or he's

(07:56):
not totally depends on bond tract what. Yeah, that's attractive
to them, so it kind of reit ignites their attraction
a little bit. Not to the degree of like the
fearful avoidant who would get very anxious and flip from
avoidance to anxiety, but there's there's a level of respect
that you gain when you when you set your own
boundaries because they don't like people that are needy.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, and there's a level of respect you gain within
yourself too, Like it's really powerful.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Like I wish people could understand.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Like, and again, you know, we always bring up our
one little beautiful, little beauty provider that we have that
we share in common with. And I'm like, girl, if
you only knew how much power you had, Yes, Like,
the power lies within you.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
She's so fit and kind and and successful.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I mean we've said it over and over. We
just love her so much.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
And I'm just like, when she talks to me a
little bit about our relationship, I'm like, girl, you hold
the power, use it, use it. And she just doesn't
know how. And I think that that happens to a
lot of people. I just don't know how to act
sis their power. And gosh, if we only knew how
powerful we all were, you know?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Anyway?

Speaker 1 (09:05):
All right, moving on to the next question, doctor Sarah Hensley,
I would love your advice. After about eighteen months together,
I told my DA boyfriend that I needed more consistency.
I didn't fully understand attachment styles of the time. After
I said that he acted normally for a few days
and then started avoiding me. Yeah, the same answer I
think might apply here. After I said that, he acted more.

(09:27):
We basically broke up even though it wasn't said. But
he never cut off all contact.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh gosh, classic classic Dassic.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
The longest I went without hearing from him was about
two weeks since the middle of February. There's been a
lot of progress. That's good, especially in the last six weeks,
but it's mostly been two steps forward and one step
back again.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Lots of traits here.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Of the DA We've gotten together many times as friends,
and I know he still cares. How can I ask
him what he wants without scaring him off?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
You should not be worried about scaring him off. If
you're confused, that's a red flag. And here's the thing again,
when you ask them for a need or when they
perceive criticism, they're eventually going to shut down and pull
back a little bit more because their nervous systems just
they can't take it. Their wound of defectiveness is so strong.

(10:23):
It's tied to so much internalized shame. And when they
feel like, even in the slightest that they haven't quote
gotten it right for you, then their wound is activated
and you're going to see a pullback eventually, even if
you see short term improvement. And so I would say,

(10:43):
what you're in as a situationship and that is obviously
very unfair to you if it's not what you want.
I'm glad you've seen a little bit of progress, but
if it's not where you want it to be, you
have to make that.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Teen months together a long time.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
That's a long time. And listen, guys, people will waste
years of your life if you let them. You can't
let them waste your life. There are people out there
that can meet your needs, that are emotionally available, that
are secure, that can provide you with what feels good

(11:20):
to you inside of a relationship. And so the question
you need to start asking yourself is what is going
on with me that I am so attracted to someone
who doesn't want me in the way that I want
them to want me exactly? And and so it's time
to start doing your own work. I would ask, I
would just straight up ask, and a maybe is a no.

(11:41):
Take a maybe, Take a hymn haul as a no,
because that's what they do. He's gonna talk around it,
He's gonna give you a I don't know, or he's
gonna give you this reason or that reason, or why
put a label on it? Or you know, things are
going so good, let's not ruin it with that conversation.
I mean, come on, you know, just skirting around he's
probably I'm a skirt around it. But you need to ask, yeah,

(12:03):
and you need to be direct with what you want.
Don't worry about scaring him off, worry about your own
needs being fulfilled.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well. And it's like we've talked about so many times,
the moment that you get rid of the things that
really aren't meant for you, all the things that are
coming to your life.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
One hundred percent, because I mean, my view is like
God is not going to send you someone that is
truly your compatible partner that you could have a great
life with if you're just going to fumble them with
your own insecurities, It's not going to come your way.
God's law of attraction doesn't work that way in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
I agree. Okay, So moving on to the next question.
Do I love asking these questions.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Because I already know all the answers to him? Is
it common for a DA to have narcissistic characteristics.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I wouldn't say it's common. No. I think that most
das are very kind. I think that most das have
good intentions. I think most das are incredibly not self aware,
and so there's no malice associated with their behavior. It's
more of a limited EQ and capacity issue EQ being

(13:12):
emotional IQ, and so no, I would say absolutely not.
But can some of their traits hurt and look a
little narcissistic, maybe a tad And I would say the
one that is probably the hardest one to over look
past and forgive, or that will remind you of a

(13:34):
narcissist is the fact that they can lie to get
out of conflict. I actually had a couple recently whose
DA that was one of the biggest issues they had
was that the DA partner was just constantly telling little
white lies about stupid stuff or lies of omission, just
because in their mind it's like any little thing that
could possibly bring up a conflict. They want to avoid that,

(13:58):
so they would rather lie or omit something.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Right or where they feel so defective.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Right where they feel so defective, it's just mechanism better.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
For them to hope it doesn't get found out. Or whatever,
and it might be something small, which is to the
partner makes them think like.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Why, yeah, why would you lie?

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Why would you lie about that? But to them it's
just like keep the piece over everything else. Number one
need for the DA is peace, harmony, lack of criticism,
lack of conflict. But it is an unreasonable expectation for
intimate close relationships, especially marriage, to be without those things,

(14:35):
because you can't have true intimacy without bumping up against things.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Than someone else and then deciding whether you want to
work through those differences.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I would say das sometimes not all
the time, can come off as manipulative because people view
their withdrawal as like a stone.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Wall right, their lack of care.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
It's like a lack of care and you don't have
empathy for me. But what people don't realize is no,
it's really just a true capacity issue again with their
nervous system going into these freeze episodes or flight episodes,
or sometimes in their defensiveness of fight response, and they
don't know how to control it, and they don't know
how to work with their nervous system, and it just

(15:21):
you know, they always get in the cycle where they're
disappointing their partner. Their partner then makes it known that
they are disappointed in them. That hits the defectiveness wound
in the shame. So they get defensive and or sometimes
people pleasing, but that's short lived. Then you get the
withdrawal no matter what. And so they think the withdrawal
means you're being cold, you're being callous, you don't care

(15:42):
about me. They very much do care. In fact, a
lot of dismissive avoidance in their withdrawal period are ruminating.
They're intellectualizing their emotional experience because they don't know how
to feel their own feelings. But they're very concerned. They
just don't know what to do. A narcissist, they are
trying to hurt you. They are their motive is to

(16:03):
have the upper hand and to manipulate you, to try
to know that they have power over you, to try
to control you. And so, yes, the narcissists might use
things like stonewalling to try to get you so upset
that you will cave and fawn. And because they're you
know what to try to get back, and they're good graces,
whereas a DA isn't looking for that, and so I

(16:26):
would say, the majority of them absolutely not, And narcissists
can appear with a fearful avoidant attachment style. In fact,
I think fearful avoidance is closer to narcissism than it
is the dismissive avoidant because fearful avoidance are way more manipulative.
If they're highly insecure.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
And have a higher reactivity.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Much more reactive than the DA.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
And really know how to hit below they can hit.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, and this is not all fearful avoidance. A lot
of fearful avoidance don't hit below the belt. The ones
that do, they hit hard like you hit them. They're
going to punch you back ten times harder. And so yeah, no,
you're crazy. I used to be one. Oh I know,
we too.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Sometimes it still creeps up. Okay, moving on.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Again, guys, this is just another episode about the DAH.
Can someone change into a DA after failed relationships? Everything
we get taught is that people have poor upbringing and
want to blame parents. But what if a failed relationship
causes a person to be dismissive.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
That's a really good question. If we're really looking at
the science. The propensity was always there, so attachment is
on a spectrum and people can slide towards security or
further away from security. So there has to be that
propensity or that predisposition from childhood there. But it was
it maybe a small predisposition, and inside of a healthy

(17:56):
relationship they would have been very secure possibly, But then
they get into a relationship where someone is very unhealthier insecure,
and it slides them more down the spectrum. So really,
the science says that adult relationships can exacerbate pre existing
propensities for a specific attachment style, But we don't change

(18:17):
attachment styles based on a relationship, or we don't go
from secure to insecure based on a relationship. You have
to think about it as like there was some predisposition there,
because remember, if you were truly had a fully secure foundation,
people don't end up in those dysfunctional relationships. Truly secure

(18:39):
people have a great relationship with themselves, and they have
good boundaries, and they know what they deserve and they
aren't terribly afraid to face the pain of detachment. So
when they start experiencing red flags, their nervous system, which
is used to living in safety, then comes out of
safety into them that feel really bad, and they can

(19:01):
very much pinpoint that it's that relationship or that partner's
behavior and they're like, whoa, wha, whoa, No, I don't
I don't like that does feel good to me. I'm
not putting up with that r right. Whereas people with
insecure attachments, when they're tested in those ways, it often
activates the very wounds that make them then try harder
and attach more. Right, Yeah, and that's that's the difference.

(19:22):
Like a propensity was there, but then you know, a
relationship exacerbates that. And in terms of a DA propensity,
it could be that, you know, the relationship started out
really well and then the DA just deactivated like they
would and a relationship that got too serious for them,
or in which they really did care about the partner.

(19:45):
Because for the DA, oftentimes the more that they care
about the partner, the more DA they are, because that
level of intimacy and attachment is what triggers.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Them's what scares them. I have a follow up question.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
So for those people, say who are married, Right, So
when they got into the marriage, maybe they were more insecure,
but they've done a lot of healing work and they're
you know, they're on their way to secure attachment and
their partner is lagging behind. But there's things like finances
and children and all these other things involved. You know,

(20:16):
I know that there are so many variables and nuances
there that make it difficult, even when you reach secure attachment,
to maybe get out of a marriage.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
It's the toughest decision.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah. Sure, But what would you I guess, advice wise,
what would you tell those people that are maybe in
those circumstances, because I think there are a lot of
those people, especially as as attachment becomes more trendy, I guess,
or you know, you've put it on the map, baby girl,

(20:46):
I'm just saying, you know, as people become more aware
of attachment styles and relation to it and really wanting
to achieve their security, you know, for those people who
have been in these long marriages, what would you say
to them?

Speaker 3 (20:57):
I would say, Obviously, stay focused on your own healing,
know that you can't control anyone else. Make a real
pros and cons list of staying and evaluate your own
values and evaluate what you feel like would essentially be

(21:17):
tolerable or livable, Like what would the relationship have to
look like to meet a standard where you feel like
you could stay. Maybe it's not getting everything you want,
but what would feel acceptable to you? Right?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
I always try to think, like I would always tell
somebody who asked me this question when I was coaching,
is like, try to imagine yourself in your single parent
life and what that would look like?

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Would you?

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Would you be a better parent?

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Because we've spoken on this before. You know, when we
got out of our past relationships, I was actually a
better parent.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
I was a tremendously better.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Parent because I wasn't so consumed with all the other.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Triggered constantly, which pulls you away from your children. I mean,
my oldest daughter and I had this conversation just like
two days ago. She said, Mom, you were really emotionally
unavailable when I was a kid. And I was like,
I know, baby, and I'm so sorry, you know, because.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
That breaks my heart.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
It does break my heart. But I was because I
was My nervous system was a freaking wreck, and it
was constantly.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Like you were just consumed.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
There was self yes, and there was so much pressure
that was put on me about like the house had
to be perfect, and the kids had to be perfect,
your dinner had to be all then yes, and it was,
you know, all of these high standards that he had,
and he would devalue me a lot about not meeting
the standards. I could never meet the standards right, and

(22:48):
so I would be doing things like frantically cleaning the
house before he came home, or like you know, and
then if my daughter's like, no play with me, then
I'm like, no, I can't write, or or there was
some major crisis going on that was killing me on
the inside and I was just in another world. My
mind was just in another world. You're just trying to
come I wasn't present, and you know, I have to

(23:11):
live with that for the rest of my life. That
I missed so many joyous moments that I'll never ever
get back. And I'm doing everything humanly possible to make
up for that with my daughter. And I think Gabby
now would tell you I'm very emotionally available and that
we've worked through our stuff and she's working continuing to

(23:32):
work on her attachment. But you can't get those years back.
And do you really want to go to your deathbed
never feeling like you know what love really is? Do
you want to do that? I saw my dad do that. Yeah, No,
I don't want to do that. And now I see
my mom who is freaking beating pancreatic cancer and getting

(23:53):
another second, third chance at life. I mean, she's been
battling this for five years and she's still in a
really great place. And it's just like I wish she
would meet someone because my dad did treat her really poorly,
and and you know, then my mom and dad's dynamic
just was not good, you know, between them, and so
neither of them were happy.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah. One good love, I'm telling you a Neil Diamond song.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
It will speak to the heart, my friend. One good
love is all you need to change.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
I wouldn't. I can't imagine not having my second marriage.
I can't imagine having trying to make it work for
the kids. I would probably be just limping along in life.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
You'd be a mess, girl, you'd be a mess.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
And listen, I'm a product of a divorce at an
older age, and it.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Was way worse. Just take my word for it.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I would have much rather my parents called it quits
way earlier on.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Because you're way more attuned and you understand so much more. Yeah,
and you hear more.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Damage is done.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
So if things aren't the way that you want them
now in a marriage and you've been married maybe for
I don't know, maybe ten years, which is a long time.
I'm not discounting that, but don't let it be thirty
years like my parents.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And then two months shy of their youngest, I'm one
of I'm the baby of four, two months shy of
the youngest eighteenth birthday, they're like, okay.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
We're getting a divorce now.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
And it was like my world just turned upside down
at a time in my life that was really pivotal
for like going into adulthood. And so I think, you know, again,
my advice would just be to really sit down and
try to imagine what your life is like. And even
though there are hard things to imagine in terms of

(25:43):
single parenthood and raising children quote unquote on your own,
but I wouldn't change a thing.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, no, I wouldn't either. And I think it's important
to try everything first, try everything. But sometimes people aren't
willing disciplants to try that hard, yeah, you know, or
they just especially I hate to say, I hate to
pick on the DA. I feel like we're just dog
in the DA.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
But he said some good things about him.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
They're the least likely to be like, Okay, I'm going
to do the deep work because they don't even they
can't even really conceptualize right what the deep work is, right,
and they have to get in front of the right
person to be able to really get it.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, well, okay, moving on. So my husband, who
has avoided me for two to three months at this point, girl, what.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
What your husband?

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Okay tells me he doesn't know if he wants to
work on our marriage or not. Doesn't know what he
wants is what he always says. So I told him
I need something. I need something. I can't just sit
in limbo forever. That's fair, very fair. So he told
me back in early June I would have that he
would have an answer for me by the time I
came back to where I was living. He continued to

(27:00):
avoid my requests for clarity. Then told me the other
night that there are many issues, but to make it easy,
he just wants me to live on my own, in
my own world, and by choice, he'll live in his.
And I acknowledged how how much that hurt me, and
I asked him if he would maybe help me understand more,

(27:20):
and then he ghosted me again.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
It's a giant no, this person. I hate to tell you, sis,
he's very dysfunctional, very insecure. That sounds like a strong,
strong DA and maybe is always a no. If it's
not a hell, yes, it's a no. At this point,

(27:45):
it's time I would initiate the divorce.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I mean a head of it, she said. So
my question is where do I go from here?

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Call an attorney, lawyer up, protect yourself, start working on
healing your attachment so that you can process effectively and
grieve this relationship effectively, and that you can become a
better person as a result of what happened, instead of
someone who lives in pain and loss that they don't

(28:11):
know how to cope with.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, and think of it this way. You spent two
three months being stonewalled. Think about the the progress you
can make in two to three months in terms of
making a real, concrete decision to get out of something
like that, because two to three months of being stone
walled is just as painful.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
And then you don't and you end up Yeah, the
same spot abuse. Yeah, you end up in the same
spot you were to begin with.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
At least if you take two to three months to
take action to get out, you're somewhere new. And even
though that new place is scary and unknown. Gosh, it's
got to be better than I could not.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Anything would be better than that.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I would lose my mind if I was if josh
Sten mauled me for three months, I would be a
crazy person.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
I'd be like thrown fists inside, Like you will talk
to me, you will.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
It's just so abnormal for any marriage. It's just so dysfunctional,
and I get it. Sometimes you don't see their dysfunction
until you're way deep in. But oftentimes what people with
more attachment anxiety will try to do is just justify
or minimize, and we can't do that. We can't justify it,

(29:23):
we can't minimize it. Two to three months is abusive,
and it's a hard no, and you need to put
all the eggs in the basket of moving on and
reaching your own security, because there's somebody ten times better
than that dude, a hundred times better than that dude.
I don't even go hours really without talking to my husband.

(29:45):
Maybe a handful of hours, but I always try to
text and check in if we've got our own things
going on during the day, Like we text each other
and check in and then we have our morning rituals,
we have our evening nighttimetime, Like, I can't imagine an
a marriage that disconnected.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Right, And somebody's saying, like he's pretty much given you
the answer, she's giving me the answer, Like he's saying, Hey,
you go live in your world and I'm gonna go
live in mom.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
That's not a marriage, right, dissolve it and move on.
He's just too scared, he's too much of a coward
to say no. And that is a classic dismissive avoidant trait.
They don't want to be the ones that end it
because they feel guilty about it, so they want you
to end it. They'll push you to the brink so
that you end it. But that's a very don't.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Feel guilty for that. No, take our word for it.
Do not feel guilty.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
You you shouldn't have an out scared I'll not hear that.
I would be partying all the way to the attorney's
office on that one. And I'm sorry, sis, that's really
really tough. I want to have empathy. I just need
you to hear me really straight when I say it's
a no, move on and move on now.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, so this one's a little long, Okay, I'm really sorry, guys.
I really spent like an hour going through all the
questions last night.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
They just all happened to be.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, they're very related about the DA.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
And again, you know, explain that doc about how it's.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Because they're baffling. Yeah, they're baffling. Their partners are the
anxious ones.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
And so they have high anxiety. Das are gonna make
anybody anxious, even if you have a twinge of attachment anxiety,
like even if fearful, leaning really dismissive will get very
anxious with the DA. And sometimes that's very foreign to
them because they're used to staying over in their avoid
in side. So they're like very you know, it's a
very new feeling to be this anxious, and they mistake
their anxiety for excitement and attraction, but it's not. It's

(31:35):
fear right, and so red flag, red flag.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah yeah, So okay, all right, I'm about to end
a relationship with a DA partner. I'm FA and doing
the course and plan to spend some time trying to
heal myself and become more secure. I will work on
the boundaries and self regulation, cognitive reframing, like the courses
I just have some questions. One, I've heard that it's
actually difficult to work on these things when you because

(32:00):
they are relational concepts. I'm trying to develop a more
secure attachment, So how do I know that I've achieved
that when I'm single? Like, how do I know when
I'm ready to move on with a new relationship? That's
the first question.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
I get this question all the time. So first and foremost,
it's a lie that you can't do the work because
these are relational concepts, because the work requires repetitive practice
of these things in other situations throughout your life, moving
through your own world every day.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
And you don't just have romantic relationship, right.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
So, like, let's just say we're talking about like the
metacognitive work. You can't just wait to become an observer
of your thoughts related to your relationship, because then you're
never going to develop muscle memory around being a third
party observer of your thoughts all the time, which is
what needs to happen. You need to have that level
of muscle memory so that when you get triggered, it's

(32:56):
so ingrained in you to be monitoring your thought process
that you can do it even when you're triggered right right,
So you don't need to be in a relationship to
do that. You can do that standing in line at
the grocery store. I mean, you know, I'll give an
example of like if you've ever been in a hurry
and you run into the grocery store, you just got
one item, and you get behind somebody and it's like

(33:19):
an old lady who's like paying with pennies or something,
or like writing a check, and you know, and you're
just like, gosh, oh, like come on, lady, it's twenty
twenty five and write a check. That's an opportunity for
you to observe your own thought process and to be like, well,
I consider myself a patient person. I guess I'm not
being very patient right now. Patients is a virtue. Let

(33:39):
me sit here and take a deep breath and calm down,
and like, it's not going to change anything for me
to be having a little mini tantrum in my head
about this right now.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
There's so many circumstances, I mean road rage.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yes, there's a million and one circumstances where stressors are
going to present themselves. And these tools regulate your stress tolerance.
That's what this is all about achieving attachment. Security is
all about regulating your stress tolerance. And yes, it mostly
is around intimacy, but you can still strengthen that muscle
in a variety of situations. And then I will say,

(34:13):
when you get into another relationship, it will shine a
light on what work you still have left to do.
But if you are really using the tools that I teach,
you should be in a good place. Yeah, because I've
seen them work in relationships. I've seen them work with
single people. I was single when I used the tools,
and I have been very successful in my second marriage.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
So it'd be like a fitness competitor only working out
when they have a competition coming up. Yeah, right, Like
a fitness competitor has to stay in shape for all time,
all the time, they just maybe when a competition is
coming up, may work a little bit harder at it
and see where they need to improve.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Absolutely, because then it's like going to a competition, yeah,
where you're like a powerlifter and you're like going to
just try to lift the weight in the moment. That's
not going to help you. You need to be lifting
weights by yourself most days of the week.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
That's right, Okay, second question that the same person is asking.
I've also learned that fas only attract das and or narcissists.
My personal history has proven that, besides just becoming more
secure as a single woman, how do I actually attract
a secure person? I know you can ask the question
what did you do to get over your last relationship?

(35:29):
And that's and that's supposed to show if they are avoidant.
But is there anything else?

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Well, yeah, you look at the first conflict and how
they handle it, and you look at early signs, early
red flags, consistency and communication. How do they talk about
other people? How do they treat other people? You know,
like the waitress at dinner. There's all sorts of things
you can be a little bit more vigilant about that
is going to that are going to reveal parts of

(35:56):
someone's attachment and their character. Now, is it true that
most people show up really well in the first few months. Yeah,
because you're inundated with oxytocin and dopamine and serotonin and
if you're a man, vast suppressing, right, and all of
those things make you feel all good inside. But eventually
those are gonna wear off and people reveal their true behavior.

(36:18):
So just attached slowly.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
I always say, there's just attached slowly.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Accountability at the end of the day, like it's huge,
it's everything, your first conflict.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
How do they how do they show accountability?

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Right?

Speaker 3 (36:28):
I remember Donald and I's first conflict and immediately, you know,
I just told him how I felt, and immediately he
was like, wow, I understand, Like I'm really sorry that
I you know, I impacted you in that way. I
certainly never want to make you feel that way. I
care way too much about you to to make you
feel that way. And I see how I could have
been interpreted in the way that you've interpreted it, and

(36:51):
you know, I'm I'm going to really make sure that
doesn't happen again.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
And see how that creates intimacy.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
So it's like, yeah, I mean because something similar happened
with the Josh and me well during our first conflict,
because I was like, uh no, this angle fly and
he came back and was like, oh gosh, oh gosh, no,
I can't lose this person, you know, and really like
not necessarily fail on the sword so much, but really
just showed up in a way that was like I,
you know, I messed up and and I'm really sorry

(37:18):
for that and what can I do to make it right?
And it really I've said this before on other episodes.
It if nothing, it catapulted our relationship to the next level,
which is really what should happen when a first conflict
takes place. And that's where you know you have to
you have to use your own discernment and in deciding
whether that you walk away from that first conflict feeling

(37:41):
better and closer, and if you don't, then that's a
red flag.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
It is the biggest red flag. And so but attached slowly, right,
go slow and it look for the small things and
check in with your nervous system. That's why the nervous
system work in the emotional completion work and emotional processing
to completion. It's so very important because when we process

(38:07):
our emotions through to completion, we take the quote signal
value of the emotion that has a very strong message.
Emotions are messengers. They are here to tell us something
and when we ignore them, or we disconnect from them,
or we override them with our attachment anxiety, then we
don't take the proper message that they're trying to tell
us about what we are experiencing in this early stage

(38:28):
with someone else, and so just you know, be aware, learn,
learn what feels good to you in your own body,
and do the nervous system work to get really attuned
with your own body so that you can understand those
signals and differentiate between excitement and fear in an early
stage situation.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
And you can do that whether you're single or in
a relationship.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
So this one's a little long too, but I think
it's important because it's in relation to the DA and sex.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Okay, so it.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Says I'm curious about the connect between dismissive avoidance and sex.
I don't know that the two men I have in
mind or DA, but I suspect from behavior patterns and
negative conflict cycles between us that they may be. Both
men seem to almost be hyper focused on sex. Neither
were able to describe any significant romantic feelings for me
even after months of the relationship time. Neither wanted to

(39:20):
talk about future plans, but made lots of references to
just having fun and not overthinking it. When I would
talk about being intentional about building a long term relationship, they.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Would both avoid it.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Both would deflect when I brought up the lack of
emotional intimacy passic. Both would withdrawal until they wanted sex,
or at least that seemed to be the reason they
would re engage situationship sis. I know men sometimes feel
like sex is an emotional connection, sometimes the only emotional
connection they're willing to entertain.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Is this perhaps a red flag for.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Someone with dismissive avoidance attachment style or is this not
related to attachment at all?

Speaker 3 (39:57):
No, it's definitely related to attachment. Everything you describe as
very typical, very classic DA behavior and a lot of
dismissive avoidance. The only type of intimacy that they feel
safe with is sex, and so you know there will
be a very big lack of emotional intimacy, but then

(40:18):
they're somehow still available for the physical intimacy, so that's
what feels safest for them. And so yeah, I mean
it's definitely a common DA trait. But I think other
attachment styles possibly can be in a stage in their
life where maybe they're just not looking for something serious
for a variety of reasons. I would say that's probably
least likely for the AP, but I've seen fas maybe

(40:40):
go through stages where they're just like you know, I'm
just here to have fun. I'm not ready for anything serious.
And you know that's more dependent on their life circumstances.
But also it can be them sliding into more of
their avoidance side of their attachment. So bottom line is
whether it comes from attachment or not, it's not okay, right, And.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
If you're wanting more, then demand more.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, say I want more. And then if they can't
give it to.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
You, wow, exactly, okay, So I'm gonna do a few more.
And this one so this is this includes neuro divergency,
so okay, you know, looking for insight from preferably those
with adult ADHD and bonus points if they're also DA.
When confronted with my DA boyfriend, hold on. When I

(41:28):
confronted my DA boyfriend, he didn't send me a simple
text letting me know he could no longer hang out
and or need space. He can't talk on the phone,
very simple things that should only require courtesy texts that
I would have no problem honoring. He will ghost me
and instead say my mind doesn't think like that. To me,
that feels like an excuse and that I'm not a priority.

(41:48):
But I don't know, is that truly how a mind
with ADHD works. Sometimes I just can't relate because he
and my kids are always at the forefront of my mind.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I'd be willing to say that's much more related to
dismissive avoidant attachment than it is ADHD or ADD a lot.
I very rarely see das with ADD, and the ones
that I see, they turn out to be fay. See.
Here's the thing. I have this hypothesis. I talk about
it a lot. I could be wrong, but I think

(42:22):
the scientific community needs to look into it. Is that
most ADHD is childhood attachment CPTSD that we can also
call fearful avoidance, and it impairs working memory of the brain.
But the DA attachment system, their attention system is wired

(42:44):
towards self. So when he says I don't think that way,
he doesn't think about you, But that is because of
his attachment. That's not necessarily because he has ADD like
a lot of people. I mean, I would consider myself
pretty adult ADHD. Shocker. You know I had CPTSD, right, Well,
it makes sense because it's disorganized about my partner, yeah time, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
But it makes sense that it would be the FA
because it's the disorganized attachment. Yeah, and if you think
about add and ADHD, it's a very disorganized type of Yes.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
I mean there's executive function deficits for sure, and related
to attention. Das actually are hyper fixators, but they hyperfixate
on everything, but theyre intimate partner because the intimate partner
is what triggers them. And so I mean sometimes I
see das come and they have all these diagnoses AUDIHD,

(43:38):
like autism and ADHD, and they have all these things.
And again I'm not a clinical psychologist, but I did
train alongside them and run a program for clinical psychologists,
and so I'm pretty familiar with, you know, a lot
of clinical work. And of of course i'm a human
behavior specialist, and so I can't give any diagnoses or

(43:59):
or say for sure, but a lot of folks I'm
just like, gosh, this is just attachment related because lo
and behold, when they do the work, they come back
and they're like their symptoms are quote gone. And I'm like,
if this was a true neurodivergency situation, that wouldn't change
just by working on your attachment, right, it wouldn't. And so,

(44:23):
you know, I've had clients some I can think in
my head in particular where lo and behold, oh my gosh,
I'm not really ADHD anymore. You know, it's like, yeah,
you probably never wear you know, he probably took a
three minute screener that somebody with you know, a one
year master's gave you or online, yeah, or it took

(44:44):
some test online or just you talk to somebody. And
so here's the thing, guys. It never used to be
where people with like one year graduate training could make
these types of diagnoses. It used to never be that way.
And then until it was until we had a mental
health crisis in America and we just had to triage people,

(45:07):
and we created these degrees that like, you.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Know, anybody to get anybody.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
I don't want to say that now, not anybody said it,
but people that normally wouldn't have cut it in a
brick and mortar master's program in psychology or a doctoral
program in psychology that they would never be able to
get in are giving out diagnoses using screener tools instead

(45:35):
of doing thorough assessments and clinical interviews and looking at
you know, correlation between you know, the interviews and the assessments,
and they're just not You're not going to get the
same type of assessment as you are going to a
trained doctoral level clinical psychologist who is going to be

(45:55):
able to do a real like detailed clinical interview and
give you more valid and reliable assessments and then take
their time really looking through that data to make a diagnosis.
We're much too quick to say, well I behave this way,
this way, this way, Okay, Well you have ADHD right,
you know, and that to me is doing people a

(46:15):
grand disservice.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Well, we've talked about this before.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
I mean that the Internet, you know, can yeah diagnosed,
it misdiagnoses a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
If I had a nickel for every person that said
I took an attachment quiz online and it said I
was secure, or.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
If I had a nickel for every time I went
to Google and was like, these are my symptoms.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
That's wrong with me.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
You're dying. Yeah, but I let my girl, I let
my girlfriend's car on fire, and I don't know why
I did that. Well, you're not really secure, you know.
I think the test was wrong. It's just because I
used to teach the science of psychometrics. It was the
class I hated the most to teach, and it was
the class that students hated the most to take because
boring af It's all statistics, it's all mass I loved statistics,

(47:00):
Well then maybe you would have liked it. But you know,
they had a project where they had to build an assessment.
And here's the thing about psychologists. I will die on
the hill that psychologists are the most rigorously trained scientists
because we have to measure things that we cannot see,
We have to measure things that are fickle. We have
to understand error like error of self report bias where

(47:24):
people may not remember or people aren't paying attention to
the test, and we have to create assessments that factor
in all of those things, all of those nuances, and
it takes years years to build an assessment and to.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Test doesn't have an attachment quiz guys. Yeah, that's why
that's one question to answer for everyone, because that question
gets asked a lot because it takes.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Me three years to build it, and it would take
a lot of time. I would have to hire a
panel of experts in attachment and have them assessed for
content validity. I would have to create questions and run
reliability analysis after giving them to sample populations, and then
I would have to run Oh my gosh, we'd have
to use the multi trait multi level matrix on the

(48:10):
dang thing, which is a very complicated statistical model to
look for divergence in questions, so look for you know,
emergence in questions to look and then we'd have to
give it to more populations and then rerun the analyzes,
and then we may have to do factor analytical modeling
on it. It's just so statistically and scientifically complicated to

(48:32):
get a final result. And then even these assessments that
have been around for years, they eventually get revised. So
you will see if you see an assessment that has
a dash R at the end of it, that stands
for a revised, meaning that because it has been around
for so long, it might be essentially outdated for culture
and for you know, traits that we're seeing emerge due
to culture and the influence of culture. And so they

(48:54):
have to redo the assessment, they have to give it
out to more populations, rerun these analyzes. It takes forever.
Then you have to write a paper on it, then
you have to get it published. Then you have to
do revision. You have to do revisions in the publishing process.
We're talking three to four years.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
And a whole another full time job.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
I don't have time.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Well, I think this just goes to show that you're
not clickbait, right like you You you speak the truth
when it comes to the science. You're not willing to
just throw some you know, tests out there that has
no credibility or no validity. You know, you trust the science.
You know the science, you know what it takes to
really prove the science and the statistics that it takes.

(49:31):
And so you know, there are I think there are
a lot of people out there that are just like, well,
here's an attachment quiz as a click bait to kind
of pull you in. And I think that says a
lot about you because you're not willing to do that.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
You're not willing to do that. And that's why I
use a qualitative methodology, you know, a version of the
adult attachment interview. And sometimes I do a little bit
more of a semi structured interview and I poke around
a little bit more because I mean, I know what
I'm doing. You know, I can look for things and
if some is say a little bit unclear between like

(50:03):
an FA or a DA, then I can ask some
more nuanced questions that I know are going to give
me more of a straight answer. And so you know,
I prefer a qualitative assessment or an interview assessment over
a self report quantitative assessment because quantitative assessments have more
limitations to them. You can't you have to ask what's

(50:24):
on the questionnaire in the exact way it's asked. You
can't poke around, right, you can't get nuanced or else
you're essentially invalidating the assessment.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Now how you would do that with human beings.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Well, I mean there's pros and cons for quantitative versus
qualitative measurement, and that's a whole another podcast. But what
I will say is the quizes online are junk, their garbage,
their clickbait. Don't use them, and there's even I'm not
going to call them out by name. No, I'm not
doing that. There is an organization specifically dedicated to attachment

(51:01):
that has a quote online quiz and it is garbage.
People come to me after taking it all the time
and they're like, but it said attachment in the name,
and like their organization says attachment, and I'm like, I
get that, But I've also looked at the credentials of
the people that rent it. They wouldn't have taken psychometrics
in their training program, so they probably don't know that

(51:23):
they're not that they're doing something wrong, right, right, they don't.
And that's the sad thing is that then we're we're
misleading people. And I hate that.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Yeah, and you don't want to do that, and this
is why I just you know, again, I stand by
what it is you're doing because you're doing it the
right way, Like you're not just trying to just get
any body just to you know, try to ruinely help
people in the right way.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
So just know that everyone.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I think I'm glad that I brought that question up
because that maybe is like the overall question that I
see the most.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Does doctor Hinsley have an attachment quiz?

Speaker 1 (51:59):
So there you go, and let's wrap up with one
more question and then we'll get started on something else. Okay,
when it comes to dorsal vagel shutdown, is this something
that's commonly that commonly happens to DAS or FAS or both.
I experience it sometimes when triggered, but my ex experienced
it upon every perceived conflict. My ex is neurodivergent, and

(52:21):
I know there is a correlation there. They have very
they have very dismissive and invalidating responses to conflict, and
are highly conflict avoidant AKA will shut down all the
time when challenged on these things. Unfortunately for them, I'm
proficient in meditation conflict resolution and am an SLP with

(52:41):
a background in linguistics. It didn't go well, to say
the least. They recently discarded me with zero communication about
any relationship concerns from their end and zero options to
repair and reconnect after eight years of being together, like
nothing for the entire eight years. Did he mesh their
sister into the family.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
No, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
They didn't immesh their sister and her family into our
relationship and got her to comment on our dynamics, which
I found incredibly painful considering the complete sorry I did
screenshot this the complete they didn't mesh their sister and
her family and okay, which I found incredibly painful considering
the complete absence of communication with me. It all ended

(53:26):
with a rug pool and then basically abandoning our life together,
sabotaging any future, and going on what felt like a
state holiday where they wouldn't communate anything other than admint. Okay,
this is getting confusing anyway. The point of the question
is when it comes to dorsal vagel shutdown, is this
something that commonly happens to DA's or FA's are both, it.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Can happen to both. Das live there a lot. Das
can go up there quicker and stay there much longer
than fas. Fas will visit that space and then come
back down. Yeah, and so das. Yeah, they can live
their life in a very dorsal vaguel dominated state of

(54:07):
functional freeze where you know, more freeze than fight or flight.
I guess because functional freeze is that blended state of
like balancing between freeze or among freeze and fight and flight.
And so yes, das, it's a very common space for
them to be. Again, it is hard to tease out
which could be neuro divergent related and what is attachment related,

(54:32):
But yes, das, that's their primary trauma responses freeze, and
fas can have it too, especially fas that lean more avoidant.
I would say fas go into the freeze response more
when they've reached a state of hopelessness in their relationship
and they get into their own shutdown, which I term
the fa wall of pain, and that's oftentimes dominated by

(54:52):
a freeze space where they're just like, I don't even
care anymore. But I'm really sorry that happened. And so
for all of you guys that submitted these questions, these
are really painful things and I'm really sorry that you
have experienced them. I know that I'm very direct, and
i'm very I don't mince words because I'm not going
to tell you to try to make something work with

(55:13):
someone who I feel like has no capacity or who
is telling you that they since their behavior telling you
that they don't want to make it work. But I
do have compassion for what it feels like. I was
with a DA for a year and a half and
it was a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, And I could not imagine just specifically on that one,
because I know I got a little confusing at the end.
I mean, let's just address the fact that this person
discarded you after eight years together. That is extremely painful.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Yeah, And I think at some point we have to
stop feeling sorry for them because we know that it
is a capacity issue and we know that their nervous
system is sort of directing these behaviors, but there's also
some character overlap here. And I say this with cheating, Like,
to me, there's a character component to cheating. Yeah, people

(56:00):
that are not capable of it because the content of
their character would not allow their conscience to function in
an a fair situation. And then we have people who
can override their conscience. And is there a correlation between
that and the dorsal Vagel response? Of course, But it
doesn't mean we dismiss it or that we excuse it.

(56:20):
That's unexcusable, well and inexcusable.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, And I think it's important also to stop blaming
yourself or something like that, because that is not that,
under any circumstance, is not okay. It's not okay to
discard somebody after eight years. I mean even if maybe
you flew off the handle and had a moment of
weakness and got really reactive, I still can't. I mean,

(56:45):
depending on how reactive you got. But I'm just giving
an example. I just don't think that pure like discard
is ever okay. I mean, we've talked about that, like.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
We unless there's really serious abuse, that's the only time
I would say you can discard some with.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
No right with total blocking.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
And yes, otherwise any long term relationship is owed closure.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
So on that note, if you are looking for closure,
or better yet, if you're looking for your attachment security,
please go see doctor Hensley at the lovedoc dot com.
And of course we cannot end this without thanking our
affiliate armor.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
We love you.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Armor I have in my water per usual, they actually
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Speaker 2 (57:36):
I can't wait, which I mean, honestly.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I know I say it about every flavor that they
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Speaker 3 (57:46):
But man, pineapple pineapple is something special.

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Yeah, watermelon's special too.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
With pineapple, Yeah, with the pineapple might be where it's at.
And of course, as you know, it's an overall supplement.
Helps with the gut, the skin, yes, mental clarity.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Bovine clostrum, and so it's it's going to help with
your skin, hair, nails, the lining of your gut. And
we all know that hot people have tummy issues.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
So everybody has tummy issues nowadays because they're trauma.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
But it has helped me so much, and I am
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Speaker 2 (58:27):
So armor is the one supplement I think that I will.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Use for the rest of the rest of my days.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
And absolutely And so for all of our listeners, you
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Speaker 3 (58:41):
We also have another affiliate we need to thank today
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Speaker 1 (58:47):
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to tell you about
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Speaker 3 (58:50):
Oh me too. So I've had a bedget for about
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(59:13):
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(59:36):
when you look at how your circadian rhythm works, you
cool off as you fall asleep, and that actually helps
you fall asleep. And so what was it? How many
people reported improved sleep?

Speaker 1 (59:46):
A ninety four percent survey showed that people had improved sleep.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
So ninety four percent of people reported improved sleep, which
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Speaker 1 (59:58):
And it's quiet. It was formula by a NASA engineer.
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Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Yeah, they have a.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Two year warranty, sixty day no hassle return. But my
husband got it for me for my for a Christmas present,
and it has been a game changer in my sleep,
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sweats that flick on of that cooling temperature.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
They have a dry function too that will keep you dry.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Listen, we only we only want to talk about products
that we stand.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
By, and sleep is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
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Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
It increases your self regulatory ability, so you can be
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Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Amen, And let's all be honest. A lot of people
in relationships in marriages end up being in separate beds
for whatever reason a.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Lot of times because they can't agree on the temperature. Right.

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That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
And so Bedget also has a dual mechanism where you
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we love Bedget so much. So we do not have
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(01:01:26):
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You will never go back. I now have a set
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Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
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Once you go bedjet, you can never go back.

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Once you go, bougie, you can't go back, and I
love her for it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So thank you, Bedget so much.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Thank you Arma, and thank you to all of you
all that have submitted your questions and continue to really
just try to be better, you know, to be better
for your loved ones, to be better for your romantic
really relationships. You are the light of the world, you are,
and we're you know, we might do this more often
because it was I loved this. I did too, and
I think I think it's really valuable to our listeners

(01:02:10):
to have these you know, burning questions answered, you know,
in real time, you know, so thank you to everyone.
If you want to submit a question, please go to
our patreon's account. Submit that question there at patreons slash
the loovedoc dot com and I will see it. And
I promise you guys, I read everything. I read all
of your emails, I read all of your comments, and

(01:02:32):
we just.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
We're so thankful for those community, and we we definitely
thank you for tuning in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Yes, absolutely so, go see doc at her at the
lovedoc dot com. Check out her services, and until next time, peace, love,
and perspective.

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Episode 9, Season 2: "Your Burning Questions Answered – Straight from Our Private Community"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 9, Season 2: "Your Burning Questions Answered – Straight from Our Private Community"