July 31, 2025 • 39 mins
Co-Host Monica Tanner (https://mountaintoppodcast.com/monica) My first-time guest Monica Tanner is a relationship coach from Boise, Idaho and the author of a book called Bad Marriage Advice. Now, even though that seems like a pretty rough topic that's no fun at all, Monica has a way of making it fun to talk about. That means you can look forward to one of the most entertaining episodes in a while. First off, what's up with all of that 'well meaning' relationship advice we get from friends and especially family members, but which is just really awful, if not downright dangerous? Is 'happy wife, happy life' really a thing? And what about when we as men joke about how the wife is 'the boss'? Should it be an option to say 'divorce is not an option'? It's not like we should just glibly drop the 'd bomb' in a relationship, right? Is a relationship really 'hard work'? What makes your relationship with a woman either less or more difficult? Is there a proper 'time to get married', or is that a trap as well? Should couples compromise? What is the deal with watching movies together...it's always a battle to find a flick both of you want to watch, right? Should you really just go read a book in another room while she watches some chick flick? And what's up with actual recommendations out there to blatantly enter into transactional relationships? What about 'not sweating the small stuff' in a relationship? Is it actually healthy for couples to fight? And finally...stay tuned for the massive toilet paper debate (after all, that's what's really important here). Have you checked out the new Substack at https://mountaintoppodcast.com/substack
=== HELP US SEND THE MESSAGE TO GREAT MEN EVERYWHERE ===
The show is now available as a VIDEO version on YouTube. For some reason, the episodes seem funnier...if a bit more rough around the edges. If you love what you hear, please rate the show on the service you subscribed to it on (takes one second) and leave a review. As we say here in Texas, I appreciate you!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
All right, how's going everybody?
This is your main man Scot McKay coming at you again with another episode of the MountainTop podcast.
You can find me all over social media and now on Substack as well at Scot McKay along withon X on Truth Social on YouTube and on Tik Tok at real Scot McKay, of course on Instagram.
Guys, if you're not a part of the Mountain Top Summit on Facebook yet, you really shouldget over there because we're a whole lot of fun in some unexpected ways actually.
(00:30):
And of course, if you haven't been to mountaintoppodcast.com, hey, that's where all theaction is.
That's where all the free goodies are.
can download all things.
Mountaintoppodcast can be found at mountaintoppodcast.com.
With me today is a new friend of mine.
She comes from Boise, Idaho.
Her name is Monica Tanner, and she is a relationship coach extraordinaire.
(00:51):
And she is the author of a book called
Bad Marriage Advice, which you can find on Amazon if you go to mountthetoppodcast.comfront slash uh Amazon right there at the top of my Amazon influencer queue, which is a
fancy douchey way of saying a dedicated storefront that I have on mount, I'm sorry that Ihave on Amazon.
(01:11):
And if you're listening within the first few days of this episode's release, you will findMonica's wonderful illustrious book right there at the top of the queue.
Her name indeed is Monica Tanner from Boise, Idaho.
Monica, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Yeah, we're all shiny and happy and we're talking about what is on paper, at least aterrible topic, which is bad relationship advice.
(01:36):
What would, what would inspire you to write a book on that subject?
You just having a little bit of fun, you know, wanting to ruin your whole mood or what,what happened there?
Well, interestingly enough, my oldest son just got married.
He actually got married on my 23rd wedding anniversary and he's very young.
He and his wife are both 21.
(01:57):
And so when he told me that he was getting married, I sat down to write him like a loveletter that comes from my 23 years of marriage experience, as well as all of the couples
that I've worked with throughout the years.
And this little love letter with a little bit of advice for him turned into an entirebook.
And what I realized is that early in my husband and I's marriage, we got a lot ofwell-meaning, but bad marriage advice that kind of made things a little more difficult for
(02:26):
us.
So I kind of set out to debunk some of these crazy myths about marriage that I thinkprobably worked fine.
uh
decades ago in earlier versions of marriage, but in our new modern society with all of thecomforts of life that we enjoy, I just think that it's a little bit outdated and it's a
(02:47):
little bit harmful to a healthy, thriving, romantic marriage.
Well, first of all, think any kid, 21 years old uh especially, is probably going to have abias, a cognitive bias that says any relationship advice I get from my own mom is going to
be terrible.
Matter of fact, I actually tell these guys, don't take relationship advice from your mombecause she'll tell you to be a nice boy and be real polite and wear a bow tie and bring
(03:16):
flowers and candy and all these things that make women go, God, this guy can't provide orprotect.
But you're professional relationship advice, so I'm sure the advice you're giving him ismuch better.
uh Yet the title of the book persists.
It's still kind of the elephant in the room here.
The name of the book is Bad Marriage Advice, and this is what you gave to your 21-year-oldson.
By the way, uh before we get into that, what does your daughter-in-law think of having toshare an anniversary with the in-law?
(03:43):
I don't know actually.
I don't know that she weighed in but she did choose the date so...
Well, she chose the date and she chose your son.
So those are two good things going for them already.
So, but why, why the, why the title?
If you're giving a love letter to your son, is it, is it an ironic title or is it just,Hey, here's what to watch out for.
(04:03):
Don't listen to these people who say this, which is it.
here's what to watch out for.
Because when you get married, lots of people wanna give you advice.
And a lot of it sounds really good and reasonable and romantic, and why not?
Until you're married for any length of time and you realize, oh, a lot of this is notgreat advice.
Like, it's not a good thing to build a foundation of your relationship on.
(04:26):
So not only do I point out what the bad marriage advice is, but I give you ways to do itbetter or skills.
that will help you not depend on the bad marriage advice.
I see.
I see.
So it's kind of like the book 48 laws of power.
You'd be a real douchebag jerk if you actually did these things in this book.
(04:47):
So don't do any of these things in this book if you want to be a good, common, decentperson, but watch out for the flaming narcissists and jerkwads who do do this stuff
because they're out to get you.
So it's, a, this is kind of like, uh, what a BF Skinner call it negative reinforcement.
You know, this is the stuff not to do, right?
it's not that dramatic.
(05:07):
But yes, I hope that people will look at it twice and be like, oh, what's bad marriageadvice?
No electric shocks or anything if you don't, you know, if you take the treat at the wrongtime.
We'll leave that for his new wife.
She could do that.
All right.
So give us some examples of, for the rest of us, for the benefit of the rest of us, whatare some things that, that you, you and I and the rest of us listening should stay away
(05:30):
from when it comes to relationship advice?
Sure, so here's a cliche that you hear all the time.
I see it on social media all the time.
It's this idea of a happy wife, happy life.
I think that's a horrible premise for a relationship where you have only one partner who'sgetting what they want, right?
(05:52):
wife miserable husband.
Right, exactly, that's the other part of that, right?
But you hear it all the time.
see all the time on social media, I'll be scrolling through and I'll see some young kidwith a microphone and he'll be like finding couples on the street and he'll be like,
what's your best advice for staying happily married?
And the guy will always look over and be like, she's the boss, she wears the pants.
(06:13):
As long as she's happy, everything's okay, right?
And that is the worst advice.
That seems like the politically correct thing to say for some reason.
But it just makes us look like simps, yeah.
the woman, right?
The woman's like, yes, of course, I'm always right.
But it's actually a lot of responsibility and a terrible way to create a loving, thriving,healthy relationship.
(06:38):
It's actually my reminder that I have a session.
Oh, okay.
Well, we'll have to, we'll have to hurry up then.
We don't want to leave them waiting.
Um, was that the half an hour mark?
Oh, okay.
We got plenty of time then.
Good grief.
We're laughing.
All right.
So yeah, I mean, it seems like there's a lot of, uh, Oh, there are a lot of old wivestales, aren't there about dating and relationships that really are just flat out wrong.
(07:02):
And you've gave, you've given a good example already.
What are some others?
Um, another one that really, think affects a lot of marriages negatively is this idea thatdivorce is not an option.
We don't talk about divorce.
We don't, you know, we don't even say the D word.
I think that really hampers, a marriage where you're both choosing to be in, because ifyou just set the premise that divorce is not an option, then what motivation does either
(07:32):
couple partner have to, you know,
make themselves better or more appealing or work on the relationship because you're lockedin.
So it
would do that, see?
So what you're saying is the best advice for someone to be happy in a relationship is getdivorced.
I've seen that before in men's groups before, just not get married at all.
But I sense that's not what you're saying.
(07:53):
Okay.
I'm saying is that you want to create a marriage that both partners choose to be in, notone that you're obligated to stay in.
Right?
So you both have motivation to grow and change and evolve and, you know, work on therelationship.
But if divorce is not an option, why would I show up and work on the relationship?
(08:14):
Because you're not going anywhere.
You're stuck with me.
Yeah, that's right.
the way you're putting that is, a little crafty.
I think I know where you're getting at that.
Um, I think if couples glibly threatened divorce at each other, kind of weaponize theterm, the D word with each other.
(08:37):
I don't think they have a serious marriage.
You know, in other words, you know, if you do that again, I want a divorce.
Well, I want a divorce too.
I don't love you anymore.
Well, I don't love you anymore either.
And then they wake up the next day and go, I'm so sorry.
I didn't mean anything that I just said.
My wife and I don't ever joke like that.
My wife and I don't ever get married.
even, mean, we did get married, but we don't ever, um, find ourselves married and thenwish we weren't and say to each other, you know, I don't want to be with you anymore.
(09:04):
don't love you anymore.
I want a divorce and then decide how I was only kidding.
You know, like the old Morrissey song, The Smiths song, Bigmouth Strikes Again, you know,
Yeah, well that's good.
bash every tooth in your head.
know, we just don't talk like that as a couple.
And I don't think healthy couples do.
like healthy siblings don't say, I wish you'd never been born.
I hate you.
And when you see them act out like that, like at a grocery store or softball field orsomething, a lot of times they're like uh mimicking their parents.
(09:32):
They're modeling their parents, aren't they?
They learned that at home.
Maybe.
Sometimes.
But that's good that you guys don't threaten each other with divorce because that's nothealthy either.
But I definitely think my...
Sure.
I do think, well, actually there's lots of jokes about that, right?
That the only way out is, uh, is murder.
(09:55):
I don't, I'm sorry.
Usually I have that turned off.
a lot of couples joke that the only way out of this is murder, right?
So that's not healthy.
But definitely, like my husband and I, we have a regular yearly check-in where we go on avacation and we talk about what's going well, what's not going well, what can we improve,
how can we make this a better marriage for both of us, right?
(10:18):
And we both show up and do the work every single time because we know that it's a choice,that we choose to be together.
There's no, he doesn't own me, I have no obligation to stay in the marriage.
If it's not...
a marriage that's working well for both of us, then either of us have permission to leave,right?
(10:40):
We're not going to do that because we both work on the marriage.
But if we just had a blanket like obligatory, you can't leave.
Then what motivation do either of us have to really better ourselves or better therelationship?
That's very interesting.
m And two things I want to bring up there.
(11:02):
First of all, one of those old wives tales is a marriage is hard work, son or daughter.
I don't believe it.
I don't think a marriage has to be hard work.
I think if you're married to the right person and you get each other and you actually likeeach other and you just didn't get married because you were hot for each other or because
it was time to get married, which man, I bet that's bad relationship advice in your bookalso.
(11:28):
but I'm just kind of loading up all the subtopics here at once.
So let me pace myself.
um My wife and I don't have to work at this marriage.
I mean, sometimes we have to do work within the marriage, like, good grief, we have acrisis, we got to attend to it, or, you know, a storm came last night and we got to fix
the fence or something.
I mean, we can labor together on things as a team, but there's not an instance where Ifeel like,
(11:53):
I've got to do some heavy lifting on this marriage in particular to save it or to make ithealthy because it's effortless to be with my wife because we enjoy it.
enjoy each other's company and we adore each other.
But it seems like people think that's a given, don't they?
That this is going to have to be hard work to keep this marriage because nobody reallywants to be married.
It's not a pleasure to be married.
(12:14):
It's work to be married.
Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think looking at it like it has to be hard work is also veryhealthy, but I mean, you're going to have lots and lots of joy.
That's for sure.
However, you wouldn't want somebody to think that, you know, unless this is easy sailingall the time, I picked the wrong person, right?
(12:35):
I mean, there are times where, you know, your values clash up against each other or thedifferent ways in which you were raised or your coping mechanisms or something.
make it hard for the other person.
And so, yeah, you can learn relational skills within the marriage, and that's the hardwork, right?
It's the hard work is looking at yourself, you know, really uh healing your old childhoodwounds and learning the relational skills to make your marriage a really great environment
(13:04):
for both of you.
So that is the work.
So it's not always so hard for everyone.
But you wouldn't want people to think that if we bump up against a challenge or, you know,if we're not getting along, then we must have picked the wrong person because that
certainly isn't the case as well.
No, no, no, and I don't think I'm saying that.
I do think that indeed times come along where there's two people and you've got to figureout what to do.
(13:30):
How would you feel about the word compromise as relationship advice?
I actually hate that word.
And I hear it all the time.
When you ask an older couple, what's your secret?
How do you get along for decades?
And they'll say, well, you have to learn to compromise.
And I actually hate that word with all my being.
I don't think you should ever compromise.
(13:51):
But I do think that that has evolved over time.
think decades ago, compromise was a very rational way to solve things.
However, we have so many resources now when you consider YouTube and ChatGPT and all thedifferent options for how to educate your kids.
(14:12):
And there are so many resources we have now that they didn't have access to before.
So I honestly don't think there's any reason why you should compromise when you learn theskills of collaboration now.
Collaboration is a lot better a word than compromise because just consider the usage ofthe word compromise in other contexts.
(14:35):
mean, if a can of beans is compromised, I'm not serving it with my hot dogs.
Okay.
It's going back to the grocery store for a refund.
If an asset is compromised then the FBI would like to have a word or two with them.
This is not a great word.
And yet somehow we treat it like the holy grail of a healthy relationship.
Whereas collaboration means you and I are going to work together towards
(14:56):
a common goal, whereas to me, in relationship compromise would mean one of us is going tohave to give up something so the other can get something.
or both of you are going to have to give up, right?
And you're going to keep score, and there's going to be resentment.
And neither of you are really going to get what you want if you both meet in the middle.
Right, exactly.
Well, I mean, what about this situation?
(15:19):
We've been watching chick flicks for two nights.
So uh tonight on Netflix, I want to watch, you know, an action adventure movie.
And the wife goes exactly no chance in the world am I going to sit here and watch thismovie with you?
I'm going into the room and I'm going to read a book.
But I just sat here and watched, you know, all these Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan movieswith you for the last two nights.
(15:42):
I didn't want to watch those, but I was here with you because I like spending time withyou.
Again, I love this example because this is something that couples go through all the time.
Exactly.
And we have so many resources now.
Like back in the 1950s, they didn't have iPads and picture in picture and AirPods that youcould put.
(16:06):
There's so many things that you could do to create a good collaboration in this scenario.
But first, and this is the skip, the step that most people skip, and that is to thinkabout what about watching a movie together or watching a chick flick is really important
(16:27):
to me.
So your wife is gonna say, list out, think about what about watching a chick flick withyou is important to me.
And you are gonna list out what about watching something else, an adventure is importantto you.
And then you're going to look at those lists and then you're going to go back and you'regoing to say, what is it about your uh preference that worries me or is not, you know,
(16:54):
exciting to me or whatever.
And then you're going to do the same.
And now you're going to look at the things that are really important to both of you andthe things that are, you know, not as important to both of you.
And you're going to, there's any number of solutions.
You could both put AirPods in and snuggle next to each other and both be on separate
devices, you could, you know, you could put AirPods in, watch the movie and she could sitnext to you and read a book.
(17:19):
I mean, there are hundreds of ways to figure out how to create the scenario where both ofyou get exactly what you want.
I know if I'd call that collaboration though.
To me, that's still a compromise.
I'd rather us enjoy, well, I would rather us enjoy, my wife says this, I'd rather us enjoya movie together.
(17:40):
But I'm not watching this.
watching, well, okay, so how are you gonna figure that out?
You're gonna compromise.
She's either gonna watch something she doesn't want to watch, that's a compromise, oryou're not gonna watch it with her, and that would also be a compromise, right?
Well, you know what the big deal is?
It isn't so much the genre of the movie, although that's a little bit of it.
(18:01):
It's whether one of us has seen it before.
Because if one of us has seen it before, then the other, then, you know, they're going togo, Oh, this is the good part that's coming up.
And there's going to be this narrative.
And I'm going to raise my hand and go, I'm probably the one who's worse in our couple, inour marriage about that.
Okay.
And I'm also, and unfortunately my poor son inherited this
(18:24):
questionable trait for me.
I look for all the flaws and all the things that are wrong with a movie and I go, Oh,that's that's they messed up on that one.
That is a complete directorial production error.
And my wife's like, can we just watch the movie?
You know, to me that's, that's, that's, that's a compromise to have to shut up and sit onmy hands when a movie comes on and everything's wrong.
(18:47):
And all the cars are 1967 cars and the movie took place in 1964 and stuff like that.
Um, that's my, my wife, as much as I love sixties period pieces, partly for that reason,she, she knows that one's coming.
So this isn't so much a collaboration as, or, it may not even be a compromise.
(19:11):
I'm going to float a third option.
What do you think of this?
I love you.
Therefore I want you to be happy tonight because you are so cool.
You wanted me to be happy the last couple of nights and I'm.
You know, it may not be if mama ain't happy, everybody's happy, but when you're happy, itmakes me happy because I adore you and I love you and you're not my adversary.
(19:33):
You're my partner.
So you mentioned travel.
My wife and I have done a whole lot of that and there are some places she wants to go.
And I always say to her, where do you want to go?
You know, I'll, I'll usually plan these big major, you know, junkets all over the globe.
and where we're going to go, but I'll always ask her, you know, tell me where we haven'tbeen yet that you would really love to go.
(19:55):
And I'll come back and I'll give you a whole plan.
And a lot of it will be based on where she wants to go.
My wife likes to spend time laying out on a tropical beach.
I think that's a total waste of time.
Unless I can go surfing, right?
But just laying on a beach doing nothing to me, except for very, very few places in theworld of key note where beaches are actually very exciting.
(20:18):
would count amongst them say Copacabana in Brazil.
If you've ever been to the Copacabana beach in Rio de Janeiro, it is an adventure just tobe there because people are doing everything all the time.
But most places just the relaxation.
My relaxation is an adventure, right?
She's with me 80% of the time on that.
(20:41):
So if we go somewhere and we plan all this adventure, I'll work in a few days of, youknow, R&R there at some beach somewhere.
and she'll thank me for it, but I can't get out of there soon enough usually.
But the adventure, yeah, but I mean, we'll go places, she'll go places.
And then one time for my birthday, she did some research and surprised me with tickets tosomething that I loved going to and didn't even know was going on where we were traveling
(21:10):
to.
And today I just think she's such a genius for figuring that out.
But we went and she actually found it interesting also.
And some of the things that...
She loved and I planned for her.
I ended up thinking we're interesting because you know, they were cultural and vice versa.
So sometimes we can surprise each other with our little plans.
To me, it's like, if you go into a relationship, this goes back to the whole transactionalrelationship thing.
(21:32):
And I want you to weigh in on this.
If I enter into a relationship with someone based purely on what I'm going to get out ofthat relationship.
And if I have to give them something that's automatically a compromise, you know, it'sjust, God, you're going to want something too.
I didn't bargain for that.
I'm supposed to get what I want here.
If it's just a literally a tit for tat transaction, right?
(21:55):
You're to get one plus one equals two.
The most you're ever going to get is what you were hoping to get, what you bargained for.
But when couples are there for each other and they do things for each other and they'rethinking of each other and they're being considerate, the good advice is that one plus one
equals four or eight or 50.
Because you get so much more than you ever even imagined because you have someone lookingout for your best interest.
(22:16):
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
So I love how you're thinking about all of that because, I would put that all undercollaboration because when you have two different people that came from two different
backgrounds and two different experiences and have two different opinions and preferencesand, you're, you could look at it like, Oh, this is so annoying.
(22:37):
They always have a different idea or a different opinion than me.
Or you can look at it like, look how blessed we are that we have.
all of this perspective and all of these different things to consider that we can actuallycome up with something better together than either of us could have come up with on our
own.
so, yeah, teamwork.
(22:59):
And so when you're saying like, she found this thing that would make me really happy and,you know, like I would rather be adventuring and she'll come with me, but like, you know,
I'll put in some rest and relaxation days in there as well.
That means that in those moments,
that your priority is to have her really enjoy relaxation of the day, even if that meansfinding something else to do or, you know, being uncomfortable for a short period of time.
(23:26):
That's still a collaboration.
You're not giving in.
You're actually just prioritizing something a little bit differently.
So it's like, you know, she goes on these adventures with me and they're so fun and Ienjoy it.
And we have that time together and
then she's gonna wanna relax, which is awesome.
So my priority is to carve in time for her to be able to relax and I'll find somethingthat I enjoy.
(23:49):
So like my husband and I are the same way.
He will not just lay on the beach.
Like I wanna just read a book and spend a lot of time just laying in the sun.
So he'll walk, he'll like listen to a book, he'll put in his AirPods and he'll just walkalong the beach for as far as he can go and then he'll go the other way.
And then yeah, he'll play in the waves or whatever and so then I'll jump in the waves withhim, right?
(24:10):
It's great because we spend a lot of time together doing things that we both enjoy, but wealso have time to do what we enjoy individually and allow each other the space to do that.
Right.
So that's our collaboration as well.
That's another example of just terrible relationship.
I really like the one because I hear it all the time where people say, don't sweat thesmall stuff.
(24:34):
It's very cliche, but where do you think the big stuff comes from?
It doesn't start big.
It usually starts small.
So if we sweat the small stuff, it won't become the big stuff.
So I always try to say, let's address the seeds before they come become weeds and chokeeverything out.
But there are skillful ways to address the seeds.
(24:56):
Give us a few.
Yeah, so for example, I just used this on a podcast episode when my husband and I firstgot married.
I seriously doubt the listenership will be the same.
This is like the other podcast was it's called Sex for Saints.
So it's women and sexuality.
So this will be different.
(25:18):
So yeah, so when my husband and I first got married.
in St.
Louis.
Mm.
Or maybe sex in St.
Martin because she wants to lay out on the beach all the time.
That does sound great.
Except there's too much sand.
Sex on the beach is overrated.
(25:40):
I'll save it for a cocktail.
it's definitely a bucket list item.
You gotta do it once.
Yeah, but there's so much sand and wind and pesky people.
Go ahead.
I'm the guy saying.
so when my husband and I first got married, um one thing that drove me crazy, it was, itwas a, definitely a small thing, but I hated when he put the toilet paper on the thing and
(26:06):
he would make it so the toilet paper would come under.
Like what?
To me, that's like putting the milk in the cereal bowl first and adding the cereal.
Who does that?
Who, what sane person, what non-maniac, prefers the toilet paper to come under?
Right, I like it to go over.
(26:27):
Well first of all you gotta use your crappy hands to get it to go under.
You can't just grab something and do like that in one nice little fell swoop.
And you're getting your crappy fingers all over everything.
Bleh!
Nobody does that.
Literally.
Like he'd either put it, you know, it would either go over or under, but he wasn't payingattention.
He just throw the roll on the thing.
(26:50):
You know what the most annoying thing in the world is not to derail you, but I got to saythis when you use a public bathroom and every single one of the multiple rolls are hidden
underneath that thing for no apparent reason.
And you're trying to find the end of it and to tear it off.
And every time you tear one little piece off, it tears half the side of the roll offbecause it's all, you know, split down the middle and you spend all this crappy time
(27:14):
trying to get a contiguous sheet of toilet paper out.
Why do they do that?
And then when you get up, because you have to get leverage, what does it do?
It flushes everything, including the seat cover right behind you.
And it's all gone.
You have to start all over again.
Yeah, terrible.
So why would you want to even recreate anything close to that in your own privatebathroom?
(27:34):
That just doesn't make any sense to me.
I see a compromise coming, frankly.
not a compromise, but I did like it was a small thing.
I can, it's not hard for me to turn the total paper roll over when it's the wrong way.
Right.
However, what, Oh, she just wait for you to do it.
(27:57):
women use six times as much toilet paper as men anyway, first of all.
So I think women should be in charge of the toilet paper.
You know what?
If I have to leave the seat down all the time, then she has to replace the toilet paperroll when it's done.
Resolved.
Fair enough?
Is that a collaboration or a compromise?
ah I think that's just something you just came up with that you might want to check withher to make sure she agrees with you.
(28:21):
Well, I mean, I leave the seat down all the time.
My part, I do my part, but I mean, isn't that annoying?
Is it me or is it, is it, it, I, am I onto something?
Like if you finish the toilet pole, if you finish the toilet pole, God, I hope there's nota toilet pole.
If you, if you finish the toilet paper roll and it's empty or worse, you have like thatone little bit of toilet paper at the end.
(28:45):
It's like stuck to itself around the toilet paper roll and you're trying to make use ofit.
Even though it's a lost cause, cause it's all you got, you know, sort of bideting yourselfas an option, waddling over to the sink or something.
And don't, don't kid yourself.
We've all had to do that.
Cause the kids will come in and use up all your toilet paper too, and not give a ratsbehind about it.
A rats crappy behind about it.
(29:07):
My wife at best will take a fresh roll and put it on the tank.
And I have to like look around like, you know, where is the toilet paper like playingwhere's Waldo at the worst possible time in your life.
Why is it so hard to press this?
It's got spring in the middle.
It's spring loaded.
Take it out.
Take the other one.
There's a trash can right there.
Bink...
Throw it the trash can.
(29:28):
Put the new one on over the top, waterfall over the top, right?
And spring that thing back into place.
It takes seconds of your precious time.
But no, that's too hard.
Too difficult.
it sounds like that's a, uh you can practice this.
Hey, hun.
Yeah, yeah, well, I'll give you a skill.
(29:50):
Hey, hun, I noticed that a lot of times when the roll of toilet paper is finished, thatthere's a roll on top of the tank, but it doesn't get re put on the thing.
Now, see, you're glibly suggesting this as if we've never had this conversation before.
(30:10):
It's in the hundreds, Monica.
It's in the hundreds.
It's an aggressive act at this point.
Well, back to your point.
Yes, right.
Exactly.
So if it's still a small thing, we can we can have this conversation.
We can say, hey, it would work better for me if you would just take responsibility foralways switching out the toilet paper.
(30:30):
Right.
So that is a skillful way to
sweat a small thing before it becomes a big thing.
So you're saying now we've had this conversation a million times and it doesn't ever seemto work.
What's a cute little mental trick because see what she doesn't know is if I, if I expirethe toilet paper roll, I'll automatically go get the next one and put it in, you know?
(30:53):
I mean, that's me that's obvious.
So if I say, why don't you do this all the time?
What I'm really saying is do this all the time when it's your problem, because you don'trealize it.
I do it all the time when it's my problem and you don't even notice cause hey I did it.
It's never, it's never an issue.
(31:15):
Yeah, so you're just going to say something like, noticed when you're going to thebathroom and the toilet paper runs out, it doesn't get replaced all the time.
which is a conversation we've had.
and just say, would really appreciate it if you would, if you finish up the toilet paperroll, if you would replace it.
(31:35):
Like that would really mean a lot to me.
Wait, let me give you the secret cheat code phrase that you're gonna say.
What can, yes, what can I do to make it easier for you to remember to do that?
Yeah, that's been that's been weaponized in both directions in this household before.
(32:00):
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
something like, oh, maybe just remind me when I forget.
Or she might say, maybe we should put a note on our private bathroom, not the guestbathroom, but on our private bathroom that says, if you're the last one to use the toilet
paper, replace the roll, right?
Oh, but hang a little note around her neck like she's a first grader.
(32:22):
Hang a toilet paper roll around her neck so she doesn't forget.
That's a good...
she would say, yeah, there should be some sort of consequence if I forget.
Let's do something embarrassing so I don't forget That time.
That might never happen.
All right.
So that brings us up to another question I do have for you.
And time's running short.
So maybe this is the last question.
(32:43):
I've heard people give the advice that it's healthy for couples to fight.
Do you agree with that?
I agree that fighting is not the problem.
It's repairing after the fight.
So I can teach couples how to fight really skillfully.
And when I say fight, you're going to disagree about things.
(33:04):
And some people disagree more passionately than others.
And so you could call that a fight, but I can teach you how to fight well.
But what I can't teach you how to do is how to engage when you're disengaged.
So what happens when couples
when they've fought for a long time and it doesn't go well, or they ascribe to this happywife, happy life type advice, then they don't engage.
(33:31):
Meaning they don't make their opinion known.
And so they just immediately fall into resentment.
So when a couple is not ever fighting, it means one or both parties has completelywithdrawn.
And that's very dangerous.
So I worry more about couples that come into my office and say, never fight.
I'm like, well, why is that?
(33:52):
Is it because you're not making your opinion known?
It's because you're not showing up?
that's what I think.
I think if you show me a couple who never ever has any disagreement, I'll show you ahprobably a situation where someone's a control freak and someone is a passive people
pleaser.
If they never have any disagreements at all.
(34:12):
As a matter of fact, I think when couples bicker freely, it's a sign of trust.
Like I trust you not to go anywhere.
You know, like a divorce is not an option.
You and I are going to get cranky or hangry.
And we're going to have this problem.
We're going to hash it out because that's how I feel right now.
And this is your turn to be cranky and my turn to go, well, you're being cranky.
we always forgive each other because we trust each other because once again, we knowwhat's going on in each other's head.
(34:37):
Exactly.
And trust comes through repair.
So every relationship, starting from infant to mother relationships, go through a processof harmony, disharmony and repair.
so the trust and the love and the intimacy and all the good stuff in a relationship isbuilt in the repair.
So if you never have an opportunity to repair, you're missing out on a whole lot of goodthat comes in a relationship.
(35:04):
Well, to me, word fight is a negative.
The word disagreement can be a positive.
Right.
And that's the difference.
Fighting is vicious.
don't think people, couples shouldn't be vicious and call each other names and wish illwill and try to hurt each other.
I think there's something wrong when that happens.
Yeah.
always going to be disharmony.
If there's not disharmony, that I worry about, right?
(35:25):
But you're always going to go through process of harmony.
So that's just the good stuff.
That's when everything's working great, and we're getting along, and everything's goinggreat.
And then there's going to be disharmony.
We disagree about something, or we're doing something two different ways, or you justwalked in and the toilet paper is not replaced.
That's disharmony.
But the repair...
(35:46):
that's where all the gold is, is in that process of repair.
And we learn we can skillfully repair faster and stronger and more effectively when wegain these relational skills.
Well, considering your top of the hour appointment is now waiting for you, I think it'stime for us to close this particular show.
(36:09):
What do you know?
You just gave us a whole bunch of good marriage advice, good relationship advice.
And for that, think we're all grateful.
Her name is Monica Tanner.
It's right there on the screen and the name of her book, which isn't right there on thescreen.
I need to tell you what that is.
It's called Bad Marriage Advice.
And you can find it on Amazon by going to mountaintoppodcast.com.
(36:30):
front slash Amazon.
And also when you go to matchtoppodcast.com front slash Monica, you will go to badmarriage advice.com and give us the elevator pitch on what they're going to find there.
Monica, when they click.
Yeah, so if you go to badmarriageadvice.com, you're not only gonna get have theopportunity to purchase the book, but you'll also get 300 date night ideas.
(36:51):
And so one of the things that I'm very adamant about is that you should always be datingyour spouse.
You should make time once a week, three hours minimum to go on a date night.
And people say, oh, what do you know, we fall into the same routine, we do the same stuffover and over again.
I made 300 date night ideas with all levels of adventure, all seasons of the year, and alllevels of from free to expensive date nights.
(37:18):
So you'll want to download that.
Fantastic stuff.
Monica, thank you so much.
This has been a lot of fun.
In part because it went down the road of talking about toilet paper.
Yeah.
never had such a long conversation about toilet paper, so that was really fun.
Yeah, I don't know what that says about either one of us, but probably more about me.
Anyway, a great show, fun stuff, and I'm so glad you joined us.
(37:41):
Hope you'll come back again soon.
Thank you, Scot.
I would love to.
And guys, if you haven't been to mountaintoppodcast.com lately, go there, get the shownotes, download the free book, Sticking Points Solved.
Also get on my calendar to talk about anything you want for 25 minutes.
It's free.
I want to hear your thoughts about the show.
If there's a plan of action we could put together to take you from good to great in yoursuccess with women, we'll do that also.
(38:07):
While you're there, please visit our three long time illustrious sponsors, including JockoWillink's company, Origin in Maine,
Hero Soap and the Keyport.
And when you partake of anything from our three fine sponsors, use the coupon code,Mountain10, to get an additional 10 % off.
All of that and more is there for you as always guys at mountaintoppodcast.com.
(38:29):
And until we talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X & Y Communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
Be good out there.
Awesome.
All right, how's going everybody?
This is your main man Scot McKay coming at you again with another episode of the MountainTop podcast.
You can find me all over social media and now on Substack as well at Scot McKay along withon X on Truth Social on YouTube and on Tik Tok at real Scot McKay, of course on Instagram.
Guys, if you're not a part of the Mountain Top Summit on Facebook yet, you really shouldget over there because we're a whole lot of fun in some unexpected ways actually.
(00:30):
And of course, if you haven't been to mountaintoppodcast.com, hey, that's where all theaction is.
That's where all the free goodies are.
can download all things.
Mountaintoppodcast can be found at mountaintoppodcast.com.
With me today is a new friend of mine.
She comes from Boise, Idaho.
Her name is Monica Tanner, and she is a relationship coach extraordinaire.
(00:51):
And she is the author of a book called
Bad Marriage Advice, which you can find on Amazon if you go to mountthetoppodcast.comfront slash uh Amazon right there at the top of my Amazon influencer queue, which is a
fancy douchey way of saying a dedicated storefront that I have on mount, I'm sorry that Ihave on Amazon.
(01:11):
And if you're listening within the first few days of this episode's release, you will findMonica's wonderful illustrious book right there at the top of the queue.
Her name indeed is Monica Tanner from Boise, Idaho.
Monica, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Yeah, we're all shiny and happy and we're talking about what is on paper, at least aterrible topic, which is bad relationship advice.
(01:36):
What would, what would inspire you to write a book on that subject?
You just having a little bit of fun, you know, wanting to ruin your whole mood or what,what happened there?
Well, interestingly enough, my oldest son just got married.
He actually got married on my 23rd wedding anniversary and he's very young.
He and his wife are both 21.
(01:57):
And so when he told me that he was getting married, I sat down to write him like a loveletter that comes from my 23 years of marriage experience, as well as all of the couples
that I've worked with throughout the years.
And this little love letter with a little bit of advice for him turned into an entirebook.
And what I realized is that early in my husband and I's marriage, we got a lot ofwell-meaning, but bad marriage advice that kind of made things a little more difficult for
(02:26):
us.
So I kind of set out to debunk some of these crazy myths about marriage that I thinkprobably worked fine.
uh
decades ago in earlier versions of marriage, but in our new modern society with all of thecomforts of life that we enjoy, I just think that it's a little bit outdated and it's a
(02:47):
little bit harmful to a healthy, thriving, romantic marriage.
Well, first of all, think any kid, 21 years old uh especially, is probably going to have abias, a cognitive bias that says any relationship advice I get from my own mom is going to
be terrible.
Matter of fact, I actually tell these guys, don't take relationship advice from your mombecause she'll tell you to be a nice boy and be real polite and wear a bow tie and bring
(03:16):
flowers and candy and all these things that make women go, God, this guy can't provide orprotect.
But you're professional relationship advice, so I'm sure the advice you're giving him ismuch better.
uh Yet the title of the book persists.
It's still kind of the elephant in the room here.
The name of the book is Bad Marriage Advice, and this is what you gave to your 21-year-oldson.
By the way, uh before we get into that, what does your daughter-in-law think of having toshare an anniversary with the in-law?
(03:43):
I don't know actually.
I don't know that she weighed in but she did choose the date so...
Well, she chose the date and she chose your son.
So those are two good things going for them already.
So, but why, why the, why the title?
If you're giving a love letter to your son, is it, is it an ironic title or is it just,Hey, here's what to watch out for.
(04:03):
Don't listen to these people who say this, which is it.
here's what to watch out for.
Because when you get married, lots of people wanna give you advice.
And a lot of it sounds really good and reasonable and romantic, and why not?
Until you're married for any length of time and you realize, oh, a lot of this is notgreat advice.
Like, it's not a good thing to build a foundation of your relationship on.
(04:26):
So not only do I point out what the bad marriage advice is, but I give you ways to do itbetter or skills.
that will help you not depend on the bad marriage advice.
I see.
I see.
So it's kind of like the book 48 laws of power.
You'd be a real douchebag jerk if you actually did these things in this book.
(04:47):
So don't do any of these things in this book if you want to be a good, common, decentperson, but watch out for the flaming narcissists and jerkwads who do do this stuff
because they're out to get you.
So it's, a, this is kind of like, uh, what a BF Skinner call it negative reinforcement.
You know, this is the stuff not to do, right?
it's not that dramatic.
(05:07):
But yes, I hope that people will look at it twice and be like, oh, what's bad marriageadvice?
No electric shocks or anything if you don't, you know, if you take the treat at the wrongtime.
We'll leave that for his new wife.
She could do that.
All right.
So give us some examples of, for the rest of us, for the benefit of the rest of us, whatare some things that, that you, you and I and the rest of us listening should stay away
(05:30):
from when it comes to relationship advice?
Sure, so here's a cliche that you hear all the time.
I see it on social media all the time.
It's this idea of a happy wife, happy life.
I think that's a horrible premise for a relationship where you have only one partner who'sgetting what they want, right?
(05:52):
wife miserable husband.
Right, exactly, that's the other part of that, right?
But you hear it all the time.
see all the time on social media, I'll be scrolling through and I'll see some young kidwith a microphone and he'll be like finding couples on the street and he'll be like,
what's your best advice for staying happily married?
And the guy will always look over and be like, she's the boss, she wears the pants.
(06:13):
As long as she's happy, everything's okay, right?
And that is the worst advice.
That seems like the politically correct thing to say for some reason.
But it just makes us look like simps, yeah.
the woman, right?
The woman's like, yes, of course, I'm always right.
But it's actually a lot of responsibility and a terrible way to create a loving, thriving,healthy relationship.
(06:38):
It's actually my reminder that I have a session.
Oh, okay.
Well, we'll have to, we'll have to hurry up then.
We don't want to leave them waiting.
Um, was that the half an hour mark?
Oh, okay.
We got plenty of time then.
Good grief.
We're laughing.
All right.
So yeah, I mean, it seems like there's a lot of, uh, Oh, there are a lot of old wivestales, aren't there about dating and relationships that really are just flat out wrong.
(07:02):
And you've gave, you've given a good example already.
What are some others?
Um, another one that really, think affects a lot of marriages negatively is this idea thatdivorce is not an option.
We don't talk about divorce.
We don't, you know, we don't even say the D word.
I think that really hampers, a marriage where you're both choosing to be in, because ifyou just set the premise that divorce is not an option, then what motivation does either
(07:32):
couple partner have to, you know,
make themselves better or more appealing or work on the relationship because you're lockedin.
So it
would do that, see?
So what you're saying is the best advice for someone to be happy in a relationship is getdivorced.
I've seen that before in men's groups before, just not get married at all.
But I sense that's not what you're saying.
(07:53):
Okay.
I'm saying is that you want to create a marriage that both partners choose to be in, notone that you're obligated to stay in.
Right?
So you both have motivation to grow and change and evolve and, you know, work on therelationship.
But if divorce is not an option, why would I show up and work on the relationship?
(08:14):
Because you're not going anywhere.
You're stuck with me.
Yeah, that's right.
the way you're putting that is, a little crafty.
I think I know where you're getting at that.
Um, I think if couples glibly threatened divorce at each other, kind of weaponize theterm, the D word with each other.
(08:37):
I don't think they have a serious marriage.
You know, in other words, you know, if you do that again, I want a divorce.
Well, I want a divorce too.
I don't love you anymore.
Well, I don't love you anymore either.
And then they wake up the next day and go, I'm so sorry.
I didn't mean anything that I just said.
My wife and I don't ever joke like that.
My wife and I don't ever get married.
even, mean, we did get married, but we don't ever, um, find ourselves married and thenwish we weren't and say to each other, you know, I don't want to be with you anymore.
(09:04):
don't love you anymore.
I want a divorce and then decide how I was only kidding.
You know, like the old Morrissey song, The Smiths song, Bigmouth Strikes Again, you know,
Yeah, well that's good.
bash every tooth in your head.
know, we just don't talk like that as a couple.
And I don't think healthy couples do.
like healthy siblings don't say, I wish you'd never been born.
I hate you.
And when you see them act out like that, like at a grocery store or softball field orsomething, a lot of times they're like uh mimicking their parents.
(09:32):
They're modeling their parents, aren't they?
They learned that at home.
Maybe.
Sometimes.
But that's good that you guys don't threaten each other with divorce because that's nothealthy either.
But I definitely think my...
Sure.
I do think, well, actually there's lots of jokes about that, right?
That the only way out is, uh, is murder.
(09:55):
I don't, I'm sorry.
Usually I have that turned off.
a lot of couples joke that the only way out of this is murder, right?
So that's not healthy.
But definitely, like my husband and I, we have a regular yearly check-in where we go on avacation and we talk about what's going well, what's not going well, what can we improve,
how can we make this a better marriage for both of us, right?
(10:18):
And we both show up and do the work every single time because we know that it's a choice,that we choose to be together.
There's no, he doesn't own me, I have no obligation to stay in the marriage.
If it's not...
a marriage that's working well for both of us, then either of us have permission to leave,right?
(10:40):
We're not going to do that because we both work on the marriage.
But if we just had a blanket like obligatory, you can't leave.
Then what motivation do either of us have to really better ourselves or better therelationship?
That's very interesting.
m And two things I want to bring up there.
(11:02):
First of all, one of those old wives tales is a marriage is hard work, son or daughter.
I don't believe it.
I don't think a marriage has to be hard work.
I think if you're married to the right person and you get each other and you actually likeeach other and you just didn't get married because you were hot for each other or because
it was time to get married, which man, I bet that's bad relationship advice in your bookalso.
(11:28):
but I'm just kind of loading up all the subtopics here at once.
So let me pace myself.
um My wife and I don't have to work at this marriage.
I mean, sometimes we have to do work within the marriage, like, good grief, we have acrisis, we got to attend to it, or, you know, a storm came last night and we got to fix
the fence or something.
I mean, we can labor together on things as a team, but there's not an instance where Ifeel like,
(11:53):
I've got to do some heavy lifting on this marriage in particular to save it or to make ithealthy because it's effortless to be with my wife because we enjoy it.
enjoy each other's company and we adore each other.
But it seems like people think that's a given, don't they?
That this is going to have to be hard work to keep this marriage because nobody reallywants to be married.
It's not a pleasure to be married.
(12:14):
It's work to be married.
Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think looking at it like it has to be hard work is also veryhealthy, but I mean, you're going to have lots and lots of joy.
That's for sure.
However, you wouldn't want somebody to think that, you know, unless this is easy sailingall the time, I picked the wrong person, right?
(12:35):
I mean, there are times where, you know, your values clash up against each other or thedifferent ways in which you were raised or your coping mechanisms or something.
make it hard for the other person.
And so, yeah, you can learn relational skills within the marriage, and that's the hardwork, right?
It's the hard work is looking at yourself, you know, really uh healing your old childhoodwounds and learning the relational skills to make your marriage a really great environment
(13:04):
for both of you.
So that is the work.
So it's not always so hard for everyone.
But you wouldn't want people to think that if we bump up against a challenge or, you know,if we're not getting along, then we must have picked the wrong person because that
certainly isn't the case as well.
No, no, no, and I don't think I'm saying that.
I do think that indeed times come along where there's two people and you've got to figureout what to do.
(13:30):
How would you feel about the word compromise as relationship advice?
I actually hate that word.
And I hear it all the time.
When you ask an older couple, what's your secret?
How do you get along for decades?
And they'll say, well, you have to learn to compromise.
And I actually hate that word with all my being.
I don't think you should ever compromise.
(13:51):
But I do think that that has evolved over time.
think decades ago, compromise was a very rational way to solve things.
However, we have so many resources now when you consider YouTube and ChatGPT and all thedifferent options for how to educate your kids.
(14:12):
And there are so many resources we have now that they didn't have access to before.
So I honestly don't think there's any reason why you should compromise when you learn theskills of collaboration now.
Collaboration is a lot better a word than compromise because just consider the usage ofthe word compromise in other contexts.
(14:35):
mean, if a can of beans is compromised, I'm not serving it with my hot dogs.
Okay.
It's going back to the grocery store for a refund.
If an asset is compromised then the FBI would like to have a word or two with them.
This is not a great word.
And yet somehow we treat it like the holy grail of a healthy relationship.
Whereas collaboration means you and I are going to work together towards
(14:56):
a common goal, whereas to me, in relationship compromise would mean one of us is going tohave to give up something so the other can get something.
or both of you are going to have to give up, right?
And you're going to keep score, and there's going to be resentment.
And neither of you are really going to get what you want if you both meet in the middle.
Right, exactly.
Well, I mean, what about this situation?
(15:19):
We've been watching chick flicks for two nights.
So uh tonight on Netflix, I want to watch, you know, an action adventure movie.
And the wife goes exactly no chance in the world am I going to sit here and watch thismovie with you?
I'm going into the room and I'm going to read a book.
But I just sat here and watched, you know, all these Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan movieswith you for the last two nights.
(15:42):
I didn't want to watch those, but I was here with you because I like spending time withyou.
Again, I love this example because this is something that couples go through all the time.
Exactly.
And we have so many resources now.
Like back in the 1950s, they didn't have iPads and picture in picture and AirPods that youcould put.
(16:06):
There's so many things that you could do to create a good collaboration in this scenario.
But first, and this is the skip, the step that most people skip, and that is to thinkabout what about watching a movie together or watching a chick flick is really important
(16:27):
to me.
So your wife is gonna say, list out, think about what about watching a chick flick withyou is important to me.
And you are gonna list out what about watching something else, an adventure is importantto you.
And then you're going to look at those lists and then you're going to go back and you'regoing to say, what is it about your uh preference that worries me or is not, you know,
(16:54):
exciting to me or whatever.
And then you're going to do the same.
And now you're going to look at the things that are really important to both of you andthe things that are, you know, not as important to both of you.
And you're going to, there's any number of solutions.
You could both put AirPods in and snuggle next to each other and both be on separate
devices, you could, you know, you could put AirPods in, watch the movie and she could sitnext to you and read a book.
(17:19):
I mean, there are hundreds of ways to figure out how to create the scenario where both ofyou get exactly what you want.
I know if I'd call that collaboration though.
To me, that's still a compromise.
I'd rather us enjoy, well, I would rather us enjoy, my wife says this, I'd rather us enjoya movie together.
(17:40):
But I'm not watching this.
watching, well, okay, so how are you gonna figure that out?
You're gonna compromise.
She's either gonna watch something she doesn't want to watch, that's a compromise, oryou're not gonna watch it with her, and that would also be a compromise, right?
Well, you know what the big deal is?
It isn't so much the genre of the movie, although that's a little bit of it.
(18:01):
It's whether one of us has seen it before.
Because if one of us has seen it before, then the other, then, you know, they're going togo, Oh, this is the good part that's coming up.
And there's going to be this narrative.
And I'm going to raise my hand and go, I'm probably the one who's worse in our couple, inour marriage about that.
Okay.
And I'm also, and unfortunately my poor son inherited this
(18:24):
questionable trait for me.
I look for all the flaws and all the things that are wrong with a movie and I go, Oh,that's that's they messed up on that one.
That is a complete directorial production error.
And my wife's like, can we just watch the movie?
You know, to me that's, that's, that's, that's a compromise to have to shut up and sit onmy hands when a movie comes on and everything's wrong.
(18:47):
And all the cars are 1967 cars and the movie took place in 1964 and stuff like that.
Um, that's my, my wife, as much as I love sixties period pieces, partly for that reason,she, she knows that one's coming.
So this isn't so much a collaboration as, or, it may not even be a compromise.
(19:11):
I'm going to float a third option.
What do you think of this?
I love you.
Therefore I want you to be happy tonight because you are so cool.
You wanted me to be happy the last couple of nights and I'm.
You know, it may not be if mama ain't happy, everybody's happy, but when you're happy, itmakes me happy because I adore you and I love you and you're not my adversary.
(19:33):
You're my partner.
So you mentioned travel.
My wife and I have done a whole lot of that and there are some places she wants to go.
And I always say to her, where do you want to go?
You know, I'll, I'll usually plan these big major, you know, junkets all over the globe.
and where we're going to go, but I'll always ask her, you know, tell me where we haven'tbeen yet that you would really love to go.
(19:55):
And I'll come back and I'll give you a whole plan.
And a lot of it will be based on where she wants to go.
My wife likes to spend time laying out on a tropical beach.
I think that's a total waste of time.
Unless I can go surfing, right?
But just laying on a beach doing nothing to me, except for very, very few places in theworld of key note where beaches are actually very exciting.
(20:18):
would count amongst them say Copacabana in Brazil.
If you've ever been to the Copacabana beach in Rio de Janeiro, it is an adventure just tobe there because people are doing everything all the time.
But most places just the relaxation.
My relaxation is an adventure, right?
She's with me 80% of the time on that.
(20:41):
So if we go somewhere and we plan all this adventure, I'll work in a few days of, youknow, R&R there at some beach somewhere.
and she'll thank me for it, but I can't get out of there soon enough usually.
But the adventure, yeah, but I mean, we'll go places, she'll go places.
And then one time for my birthday, she did some research and surprised me with tickets tosomething that I loved going to and didn't even know was going on where we were traveling
(21:10):
to.
And today I just think she's such a genius for figuring that out.
But we went and she actually found it interesting also.
And some of the things that...
She loved and I planned for her.
I ended up thinking we're interesting because you know, they were cultural and vice versa.
So sometimes we can surprise each other with our little plans.
To me, it's like, if you go into a relationship, this goes back to the whole transactionalrelationship thing.
(21:32):
And I want you to weigh in on this.
If I enter into a relationship with someone based purely on what I'm going to get out ofthat relationship.
And if I have to give them something that's automatically a compromise, you know, it'sjust, God, you're going to want something too.
I didn't bargain for that.
I'm supposed to get what I want here.
If it's just a literally a tit for tat transaction, right?
(21:55):
You're to get one plus one equals two.
The most you're ever going to get is what you were hoping to get, what you bargained for.
But when couples are there for each other and they do things for each other and they'rethinking of each other and they're being considerate, the good advice is that one plus one
equals four or eight or 50.
Because you get so much more than you ever even imagined because you have someone lookingout for your best interest.
(22:16):
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
So I love how you're thinking about all of that because, I would put that all undercollaboration because when you have two different people that came from two different
backgrounds and two different experiences and have two different opinions and preferencesand, you're, you could look at it like, Oh, this is so annoying.
(22:37):
They always have a different idea or a different opinion than me.
Or you can look at it like, look how blessed we are that we have.
all of this perspective and all of these different things to consider that we can actuallycome up with something better together than either of us could have come up with on our
own.
so, yeah, teamwork.
(22:59):
And so when you're saying like, she found this thing that would make me really happy and,you know, like I would rather be adventuring and she'll come with me, but like, you know,
I'll put in some rest and relaxation days in there as well.
That means that in those moments,
that your priority is to have her really enjoy relaxation of the day, even if that meansfinding something else to do or, you know, being uncomfortable for a short period of time.
(23:26):
That's still a collaboration.
You're not giving in.
You're actually just prioritizing something a little bit differently.
So it's like, you know, she goes on these adventures with me and they're so fun and Ienjoy it.
And we have that time together and
then she's gonna wanna relax, which is awesome.
So my priority is to carve in time for her to be able to relax and I'll find somethingthat I enjoy.
(23:49):
So like my husband and I are the same way.
He will not just lay on the beach.
Like I wanna just read a book and spend a lot of time just laying in the sun.
So he'll walk, he'll like listen to a book, he'll put in his AirPods and he'll just walkalong the beach for as far as he can go and then he'll go the other way.
And then yeah, he'll play in the waves or whatever and so then I'll jump in the waves withhim, right?
(24:10):
It's great because we spend a lot of time together doing things that we both enjoy, but wealso have time to do what we enjoy individually and allow each other the space to do that.
Right.
So that's our collaboration as well.
That's another example of just terrible relationship.
I really like the one because I hear it all the time where people say, don't sweat thesmall stuff.
(24:34):
It's very cliche, but where do you think the big stuff comes from?
It doesn't start big.
It usually starts small.
So if we sweat the small stuff, it won't become the big stuff.
So I always try to say, let's address the seeds before they come become weeds and chokeeverything out.
But there are skillful ways to address the seeds.
(24:56):
Give us a few.
Yeah, so for example, I just used this on a podcast episode when my husband and I firstgot married.
I seriously doubt the listenership will be the same.
This is like the other podcast was it's called Sex for Saints.
So it's women and sexuality.
So this will be different.
(25:18):
So yeah, so when my husband and I first got married.
in St.
Louis.
Mm.
Or maybe sex in St.
Martin because she wants to lay out on the beach all the time.
That does sound great.
Except there's too much sand.
Sex on the beach is overrated.
(25:40):
I'll save it for a cocktail.
it's definitely a bucket list item.
You gotta do it once.
Yeah, but there's so much sand and wind and pesky people.
Go ahead.
I'm the guy saying.
so when my husband and I first got married, um one thing that drove me crazy, it was, itwas a, definitely a small thing, but I hated when he put the toilet paper on the thing and
(26:06):
he would make it so the toilet paper would come under.
Like what?
To me, that's like putting the milk in the cereal bowl first and adding the cereal.
Who does that?
Who, what sane person, what non-maniac, prefers the toilet paper to come under?
Right, I like it to go over.
(26:27):
Well first of all you gotta use your crappy hands to get it to go under.
You can't just grab something and do like that in one nice little fell swoop.
And you're getting your crappy fingers all over everything.
Bleh!
Nobody does that.
Literally.
Like he'd either put it, you know, it would either go over or under, but he wasn't payingattention.
He just throw the roll on the thing.
(26:50):
You know what the most annoying thing in the world is not to derail you, but I got to saythis when you use a public bathroom and every single one of the multiple rolls are hidden
underneath that thing for no apparent reason.
And you're trying to find the end of it and to tear it off.
And every time you tear one little piece off, it tears half the side of the roll offbecause it's all, you know, split down the middle and you spend all this crappy time
(27:14):
trying to get a contiguous sheet of toilet paper out.
Why do they do that?
And then when you get up, because you have to get leverage, what does it do?
It flushes everything, including the seat cover right behind you.
And it's all gone.
You have to start all over again.
Yeah, terrible.
So why would you want to even recreate anything close to that in your own privatebathroom?
(27:34):
That just doesn't make any sense to me.
I see a compromise coming, frankly.
not a compromise, but I did like it was a small thing.
I can, it's not hard for me to turn the total paper roll over when it's the wrong way.
Right.
However, what, Oh, she just wait for you to do it.
(27:57):
women use six times as much toilet paper as men anyway, first of all.
So I think women should be in charge of the toilet paper.
You know what?
If I have to leave the seat down all the time, then she has to replace the toilet paperroll when it's done.
Resolved.
Fair enough?
Is that a collaboration or a compromise?
ah I think that's just something you just came up with that you might want to check withher to make sure she agrees with you.
(28:21):
Well, I mean, I leave the seat down all the time.
My part, I do my part, but I mean, isn't that annoying?
Is it me or is it, is it, it, I, am I onto something?
Like if you finish the toilet pole, if you finish the toilet pole, God, I hope there's nota toilet pole.
If you, if you finish the toilet paper roll and it's empty or worse, you have like thatone little bit of toilet paper at the end.
(28:45):
It's like stuck to itself around the toilet paper roll and you're trying to make use ofit.
Even though it's a lost cause, cause it's all you got, you know, sort of bideting yourselfas an option, waddling over to the sink or something.
And don't, don't kid yourself.
We've all had to do that.
Cause the kids will come in and use up all your toilet paper too, and not give a ratsbehind about it.
A rats crappy behind about it.
(29:07):
My wife at best will take a fresh roll and put it on the tank.
And I have to like look around like, you know, where is the toilet paper like playingwhere's Waldo at the worst possible time in your life.
Why is it so hard to press this?
It's got spring in the middle.
It's spring loaded.
Take it out.
Take the other one.
There's a trash can right there.
Bink...
Throw it the trash can.
(29:28):
Put the new one on over the top, waterfall over the top, right?
And spring that thing back into place.
It takes seconds of your precious time.
But no, that's too hard.
Too difficult.
it sounds like that's a, uh you can practice this.
Hey, hun.
Yeah, yeah, well, I'll give you a skill.
(29:50):
Hey, hun, I noticed that a lot of times when the roll of toilet paper is finished, thatthere's a roll on top of the tank, but it doesn't get re put on the thing.
Now, see, you're glibly suggesting this as if we've never had this conversation before.
(30:10):
It's in the hundreds, Monica.
It's in the hundreds.
It's an aggressive act at this point.
Well, back to your point.
Yes, right.
Exactly.
So if it's still a small thing, we can we can have this conversation.
We can say, hey, it would work better for me if you would just take responsibility foralways switching out the toilet paper.
(30:30):
Right.
So that is a skillful way to
sweat a small thing before it becomes a big thing.
So you're saying now we've had this conversation a million times and it doesn't ever seemto work.
What's a cute little mental trick because see what she doesn't know is if I, if I expirethe toilet paper roll, I'll automatically go get the next one and put it in, you know?
(30:53):
I mean, that's me that's obvious.
So if I say, why don't you do this all the time?
What I'm really saying is do this all the time when it's your problem, because you don'trealize it.
I do it all the time when it's my problem and you don't even notice cause hey I did it.
It's never, it's never an issue.
(31:15):
Yeah, so you're just going to say something like, noticed when you're going to thebathroom and the toilet paper runs out, it doesn't get replaced all the time.
which is a conversation we've had.
and just say, would really appreciate it if you would, if you finish up the toilet paperroll, if you would replace it.
(31:35):
Like that would really mean a lot to me.
Wait, let me give you the secret cheat code phrase that you're gonna say.
What can, yes, what can I do to make it easier for you to remember to do that?
Yeah, that's been that's been weaponized in both directions in this household before.
(32:00):
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
something like, oh, maybe just remind me when I forget.
Or she might say, maybe we should put a note on our private bathroom, not the guestbathroom, but on our private bathroom that says, if you're the last one to use the toilet
paper, replace the roll, right?
Oh, but hang a little note around her neck like she's a first grader.
(32:22):
Hang a toilet paper roll around her neck so she doesn't forget.
That's a good...
she would say, yeah, there should be some sort of consequence if I forget.
Let's do something embarrassing so I don't forget That time.
That might never happen.
All right.
So that brings us up to another question I do have for you.
And time's running short.
So maybe this is the last question.
(32:43):
I've heard people give the advice that it's healthy for couples to fight.
Do you agree with that?
I agree that fighting is not the problem.
It's repairing after the fight.
So I can teach couples how to fight really skillfully.
And when I say fight, you're going to disagree about things.
(33:04):
And some people disagree more passionately than others.
And so you could call that a fight, but I can teach you how to fight well.
But what I can't teach you how to do is how to engage when you're disengaged.
So what happens when couples
when they've fought for a long time and it doesn't go well, or they ascribe to this happywife, happy life type advice, then they don't engage.
(33:31):
Meaning they don't make their opinion known.
And so they just immediately fall into resentment.
So when a couple is not ever fighting, it means one or both parties has completelywithdrawn.
And that's very dangerous.
So I worry more about couples that come into my office and say, never fight.
I'm like, well, why is that?
(33:52):
Is it because you're not making your opinion known?
It's because you're not showing up?
that's what I think.
I think if you show me a couple who never ever has any disagreement, I'll show you ahprobably a situation where someone's a control freak and someone is a passive people
pleaser.
If they never have any disagreements at all.
(34:12):
As a matter of fact, I think when couples bicker freely, it's a sign of trust.
Like I trust you not to go anywhere.
You know, like a divorce is not an option.
You and I are going to get cranky or hangry.
And we're going to have this problem.
We're going to hash it out because that's how I feel right now.
And this is your turn to be cranky and my turn to go, well, you're being cranky.
we always forgive each other because we trust each other because once again, we knowwhat's going on in each other's head.
(34:37):
Exactly.
And trust comes through repair.
So every relationship, starting from infant to mother relationships, go through a processof harmony, disharmony and repair.
so the trust and the love and the intimacy and all the good stuff in a relationship isbuilt in the repair.
So if you never have an opportunity to repair, you're missing out on a whole lot of goodthat comes in a relationship.
(35:04):
Well, to me, word fight is a negative.
The word disagreement can be a positive.
Right.
And that's the difference.
Fighting is vicious.
don't think people, couples shouldn't be vicious and call each other names and wish illwill and try to hurt each other.
I think there's something wrong when that happens.
Yeah.
always going to be disharmony.
If there's not disharmony, that I worry about, right?
(35:25):
But you're always going to go through process of harmony.
So that's just the good stuff.
That's when everything's working great, and we're getting along, and everything's goinggreat.
And then there's going to be disharmony.
We disagree about something, or we're doing something two different ways, or you justwalked in and the toilet paper is not replaced.
That's disharmony.
But the repair...
(35:46):
that's where all the gold is, is in that process of repair.
And we learn we can skillfully repair faster and stronger and more effectively when wegain these relational skills.
Well, considering your top of the hour appointment is now waiting for you, I think it'stime for us to close this particular show.
(36:09):
What do you know?
You just gave us a whole bunch of good marriage advice, good relationship advice.
And for that, think we're all grateful.
Her name is Monica Tanner.
It's right there on the screen and the name of her book, which isn't right there on thescreen.
I need to tell you what that is.
It's called Bad Marriage Advice.
And you can find it on Amazon by going to mountaintoppodcast.com.
(36:30):
front slash Amazon.
And also when you go to matchtoppodcast.com front slash Monica, you will go to badmarriage advice.com and give us the elevator pitch on what they're going to find there.
Monica, when they click.
Yeah, so if you go to badmarriageadvice.com, you're not only gonna get have theopportunity to purchase the book, but you'll also get 300 date night ideas.
(36:51):
And so one of the things that I'm very adamant about is that you should always be datingyour spouse.
You should make time once a week, three hours minimum to go on a date night.
And people say, oh, what do you know, we fall into the same routine, we do the same stuffover and over again.
I made 300 date night ideas with all levels of adventure, all seasons of the year, and alllevels of from free to expensive date nights.
(37:18):
So you'll want to download that.
Fantastic stuff.
Monica, thank you so much.
This has been a lot of fun.
In part because it went down the road of talking about toilet paper.
Yeah.
never had such a long conversation about toilet paper, so that was really fun.
Yeah, I don't know what that says about either one of us, but probably more about me.
Anyway, a great show, fun stuff, and I'm so glad you joined us.
(37:41):
Hope you'll come back again soon.
Thank you, Scot.
I would love to.
And guys, if you haven't been to mountaintoppodcast.com lately, go there, get the shownotes, download the free book, Sticking Points Solved.
Also get on my calendar to talk about anything you want for 25 minutes.
It's free.
I want to hear your thoughts about the show.
If there's a plan of action we could put together to take you from good to great in yoursuccess with women, we'll do that also.
(38:07):
While you're there, please visit our three long time illustrious sponsors, including JockoWillink's company, Origin in Maine,
Hero Soap and the Keyport.
And when you partake of anything from our three fine sponsors, use the coupon code,Mountain10, to get an additional 10 % off.
All of that and more is there for you as always guys at mountaintoppodcast.com.
(38:29):
And until we talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X & Y Communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
Be good out there.
Awesome.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!