October 9, 2025 • 46 mins
Co-Host Dr. D. Ivan "Doc" Young (mountaintoppodcast.com/ivan) We're all realize we're men biologically, but how are we at manifesting the masculinity within us? Yeah, on the surface it's a question that feels like it shouldn't have to be asked. But my guest, "Doc" Young is The Reality Check Doctor, and his practice as a behavioral neuroscientist often focuses on empowering men to be more self-aware in their masculinity. Right off the bat, Doc launches into the mindset of true masculinity versus merely being "macho". How did we get swindled into thinking that was what it's all about, anyway? He's got some ideas you've probably never considered before What's the real reason why there's really no female equivalent of "macho"? What's the real reason why under-evolved men don't attract women? If you're dating a "trophy woman", you may be making her feel NO differently than if you were still living at home with your mommy. Here's why... And what does Doc mean when he says a lot of men are looking for an external solution to an internal problem? What are the advantages of being a truly self-aware man, especially when it comes to developing traits that women are attracted to? How much of self-awareness comes from within as opposed to environmental factors around us? Next, discover why self-awareness isn't only about masculinity, it's about maturity. How do you become the respected patriarch of your entire family? How do our past experiences impact our current level of self-awareness, and how can we take back control? How is comparing ourselves to others the enemy of that? And finally, what does self-awareness have to do with your quality of live, and even your very longevity itself? Get more out of your success with women. Check out https://mountaintoppodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Greetings gentlemen, how's it going?
My name is Scot McKay and you're tuned in to yet another Mountain Top Podcast from X & YCommunications.
You can find me all over social media on TikTok on X on YouTube and now on Substack@scotmckay And you can also find me @realscotmckay on Instagram.
(00:22):
Gentlemen, if you're not a part of The Mountain Top Summit on Facebook, sure hope you'lljoin us.
It's a thriving group of men who want to get better with women.
Guys probably a lot like you.
So come join us, have a good old time.
And as always, the website of course is mountaintoppodcast.com.
My guest today is a new friend of mine.
He's very smart.
(00:42):
He's very accomplished.
He's good at what he does.
He's got a new Netflix special coming up and a couple of new books.
So he's getting around and making a name for himself.
And more importantly, helping men just like you live better lives.
His name is Dr.
D.
Ivan Young.
He is The Reality Check Doctor.
How about that...
try that on for size.
He uh more formally is a behavioral neuroscientist out of Houston, Texas, just down I-10from here in San Antonio.
(01:11):
And today we're going to talk about self-aware masculinity.
Everybody just calls him Doc.
Doc, how's it going, man?
It's going well.
I'm looking forward to having this conversation.
Yeah, me too.
Self-awareness seems to me to be something that kind of fell off a cliff during COVID.
Everybody was kind of sequestered on their own without any need to really, you know, beaware at all of anything, let alone other people around them.
(01:37):
And it's kind of like we lost all our skills and forgot about them once we became socialagain.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, you know, one of the things that is critical.
What men think is masculinity typically has not been shaped by anything masculine.
It's been shaped by culture.
(01:58):
It's been shaped by us being raised by men that were emotionally stoic or unavailable.
However, we have to understand that everything evolves.
Many of us, if you're a baby boomer, Gen X, Gen Z, you probably had a dad
(02:19):
that lacked being hugged.
They were either over validated in inappropriate way or not validated at all.
So we have to figure this out now.
Fortunately, we live in a season where information is readily available.
(02:42):
downside to that is a lot of crap is readily available too.
So today, what I'm hoping that we can accomplish and me having the real blessing of beingon the Mountain Top Podcast is that I think clarity provides a path forward.
When we take that path, now we can stop playing and pretending to be macho and to meetsome stereotype, but to become authentic in masculinity.
(03:15):
and what being a man really looks like.
I love it, man.
I'm all here for it.
You know, we talk a lot around here, Doc.
You'd have no way of knowing this.
I don't expect you to be a consumer of massive numbers of episodes since we just met.
Uh, but there's a big difference between being macho and being masculine.
Uh, unfortunately in this society, much to the chagrin of us all, there really isn't afemale equivalent to macho is there.
(03:41):
Women will watch The Hallmark Channel at Christmas time, go get their nails done, go tospa days.
giggle till they snort with all their, you know, BFFs on Friday night drinking chocolatemartinis, uh, go to the mall and we don't want anything to do with any of that because to
us that's kind of just the slag that comes with them being women.
(04:02):
It's not what attracts us to women.
It's what they do that we kind of just don't want to be a part of.
Meanwhile, over here on the men's side, you know, we drink each other under the table, goplay golf, drive big four wheel drive trucks, tinker with our Harleys and our mountain
bikes in the garage.
You know, talk big game, uh bust on each other, you know, that's all macho stuff thatwomen are like, well, I guess the guys are just going to do that, but I'm not interested.
(04:28):
Meanwhile, that kernel of sexual energy, the masculine and the feminine, igniting eachother sexually, you know, to, bring about a really the, the socio...
The psychosocial part of sexuality is what that masculinity and femininity does.
(04:50):
So we as men are going to have to carry ourselves, conduct ourselves in a way that reallyshould be primally ingrained within us.
But it seems like you just so eloquently started to get at there, Doc.
It just seems like society is trying to shift us away from what masculinity really meansand either trying to
(05:11):
have us reimagine masculinity as whatever we want.
We're trying to really turn us more into women.
Meanwhile, women, um, who are angry at men for what men have done to them, you know,sometimes rightly so, uh, want to pronounce all masculinity is toxic and you know, you
guys are going to have to do better, whatever that means, but we haven't been told whatthat means.
(05:33):
So the idea of all masculinity being toxic and you should just stuff it down and stop it.
Meanwhile,
that's there.
But meanwhile, women in many ways are taking the positive masculinity and co-opting it forthemselves in the workplace.
And to me, what that does is it cheapens femininity.
Because in my mind, Doc femininity is is what we're all here for.
(05:57):
It's everything we live for on weekends.
It's everything that the beauty and the joy and the fun and the play and the hospitalityand the comfort that women bring to the world.
And we as men making women feel safe and secure and protected
to bring that femininity out into the world.
It just seems like a real shame to me that all of that has gotten diluted at best and uhignored or even redirected at worst towards this, this really, yes, it's a dilution of
(06:26):
society where masculinity and femininity don't matter anymore.
As you know, once a word can mean anything, it means nothing.
You know, just like if God can be whoever you want God to be, then there is no definitionof God.
If masculinity and femininity could be whatever you dream it to be, then there is nodefinition of masculinity and femininity anymore.
(06:49):
I don't know if any or all that tracks with what you're getting at, but I'd love to hearyour version.
Go for it.
you covered a lot of things.
So there's a way to deconstruct this.
The first thing is you used this word primal earlier.
And primal by definition is operating from the part of the brain...
(07:12):
that the deeper structures, the amygdala and the thalamus and the red nuclei and all thatstuff.
But bottom line is,
our visceral reactions are predicated on fight or flight, freeze, procreate, survive,pleasure, pain, type, signaling.
And what we're reacting to is cues in the environment.
(07:35):
Well, you know, primal man had to do one thing, survive.
And when you're in survival mode, you're not having higher functions.
A good example, you look at a guy digging out in the trash.
Well, he is in survival mode.
He's not thinking about germs.
(07:56):
He's not thinking about calories.
He just wants to eat.
And to meet that need, he will see, can I consume this?
Does it smell?
Is it sour?
I'm going to eat it because I will no longer be hungry.
Well, fortunately, many of us are not in survival mode anymore.
(08:17):
But there some of us that are and don't even know it.
When that happens, we look at women and we look at masculinity as part of an ecosystem onone level, like I need someone to take care of me.
You know, that's when you see a lesser evolved man or a man that's not economicallystable, he will look to a woman as a resource, like, you know what, baby, can I have $20
(08:43):
or as validation.
man, this chick is so hot, nudging his friends, hey, look at that.
And then he's looking at a butt and her boobs or whatever.
So now he's using this woman as a source of validation rather than as someone to engage ina meaningful dialogue or play a meaningful role.
So what's happening with us is we've got this intersection where you have men that areself-actualized and self-sufficient.
(09:11):
You have men over here that are broken.
They are victims of their environment.
You've got a section over here that culturally and socially, they're in a diminished stateeither because they don't have the right melanin content in their skin or the right hair
texture, or they're the minority group and whatever that is, that dynamic is.
(09:34):
And then you got guys over here that simply, they just don't care.
They're checked out and they are checked out because they feel like, who cares about me?
So why should I care about you?
What we have to do is show ourselves a little compassion, show ourselves a little empathy,and accept not just who we are, but let's kind of take a look at who we're not.
(10:01):
And when we can look at ourselves and say, you know, I don't have that big house or Idon't have that big $150 truck.
Matter of fact, I'm on the bus.
$150 truck.
That's me.
you know what I mean?
We're on the, well, I should have added the other zeros, but $150,000 truck, but whenyou're a guy, yeah, when you're a guy and you're really trying to make sense of life, that
(10:31):
can't happen until you make sense of yourself.
And as we learn to make sense of ourselves, which is probably a good idea,
now we're positioning ourselves to not only see ourselves the way that others may see us,but we at that point, by intention, can shape how we want ourselves to be seen by others.
(10:58):
Let me go ahead and jump in here because you're touching on wonderful things and there'sso many great things to cover.
You would have no way of knowing this, but a lot of what you're talking about we'vecovered on this show before, but you've said a couple things that are so brilliantly
different that I want to make sure they don't just wash under the bridge.
Um, clearly, you know, you're talking about the Maslovian hierarchy.
(11:19):
You know, if I,
haven't eaten for a couple of days, it may feel like, yeah, I'm really hungry, but youknow, put concrete shoes on me and throw me at the bottom of the lake, and all I can think
about is oxygen, oxygen, just like right now, too many words in one sentence.
But you know, the guys were there self actualizing, which of course is a very Maslovianterm.
(11:40):
They don't have to think about where their next meal is coming from, et cetera, et cetera,but not all of us as men are to that point logistically in our lives yet.
So I think that really
does affect where we're going to be coming from.
And you can call it primal archetypal, whatever that deep seated uh history is within us,within us from, from olden days.
(12:04):
We are going to be in fight or flight mode, either in ways we recognize, or if we're more,if we're further up that Maslovian pyramid, it's going to sneak up on us.
Just like you're saying, you know, we're still going to be looking for reasons to fightand flight and you know,
not to open up a can of worms, but I would think that absolutely succinctly nails whypeople get on social media and complain about and bitch about and fly the flag for and die
(12:32):
on the hill of things that don't even affect their life politically, whatever, becauseit's a mess and people don't have anything better to do.
The other thing that is even arguably more important that you just talked about is youwere talking about men growing up, expecting women to still take care of them.
I believe for a lot of guys, there's no rite...
rite of passage where they even sometimes literally move out from under their mommy'sroof.
(12:57):
There's guys still living at home with their mommy and daddy at age 30 wondering why womenaren't attracted.
And it's because there's been no rite of passage where that handoff is made from where aman sees women as someone providing for them to where they're going to be the man of the
house.
And now they're going to be the provider and protector, which is inherently attractive towomen as masculinity.
So when there is a total blind spot there, that's it.
(13:19):
That's even necessary.
It allows men to remain in their comfort familiarity zone where, you know, it seems like,hey this is the easy button.
I just hit that in my bed's made and my meals are paid for.
I don't even have to go get a job.
don't have to have any stress, but they're also not self-actualizing because they're stillstuck being boys instead of men.
(13:40):
So the twist that you put on that is a man also coming from the same place.
If, and when he says, look,
she's a fine piece of ass.
Look, gentlemen, look at my trophy.
Because then that's a woman, wait for it, still providing him.
His ego, his sense of validation is I have a hot chick.
(14:05):
And yet my thought process, and I think, again, you've brought up something fantastichere.
This is going to be life changing for a lot of guys.
This has never been talked about on this show, which I'm always looking for...new topicslike that.
If you have a situation where basically he might as well be
at home on his mommy's couch, not adulting, because the woman is going to be equallyunimpressed that she's being used for his validation.
(14:27):
She needs him to man up.
And you know, another thing you alluded to know who the hell he is.
That's called having character.
Knowing what his belief system is, who he is, what he's good at, what he's not good at,you know, doing the right thing as he interprets it.
um Even when nobody is, is looking.
or based on his God, based on his religious beliefs, whatever that core belief system isthat's underpinning his character, he sticks to it.
(14:53):
Without that, whether you are simply trying to call your next girlfriend mommy, or you'retrying to get her to validate you because she's your trophy girlfriend, the end result in
that woman's mind, in her psyche, is her femininity just doesn't want any.
Well, there are a couple of things that go with what you said.
So, going back to, you use this word archetype and that for people that don't know whatthat is, that that's this persona that embodies an aspect of function, belief, status or
(15:29):
what have you.
So many of us are living in an architect...
an archetype, excuse me, that has been our protector.
Or it's been our source of oh self-worth, of validation.
Here's a good example of this.
I have a whole lot of high net worth public figure type clients that come to my practiceto see me.
(15:55):
Some of these guys, they could write a check and the bank will bounce.
Now what's happened is they either had an athletic prowess, they were born with the rightlast name, uh and
they realize that, you know what, because I do this, I am esteemed and I'm honored.
So you should acquiesce to me.
(16:16):
And they look at that from friends to women.
What we don't look at is, what ecosystem is feeding that?
And a lot of your frenemies that are, you're picking up the tab, you're buying the beers,you're buying a round, you had a damn suite at the stadium.
Those guys aren't expecting anything more from you
(16:39):
than what their selfish association with you brings and provides for them.
You know, I call it this wingman effect where, you know, the guy makes a good wingman.
Well, of course, because he doesn't have his own damn plane, number one.
Number two, what you attract when you have him on board and co-pilots him with you raiseshis value.
Well, this a good way to think about this is if you're the smartest guy on your team, youneed a new team, right?
(17:07):
You get in a relationship
If you're the smart, Norman Schwarzkopf also said something similar.
If you're, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.
Yeah.
what happens with us is that we should question ourselves and question, alright, here'swhere I am.
If you're going to become, I'll use the phrase self actualize because I don't think weever really reach that, you know, but I think as we strive for it, then we have to ask
(17:38):
ourselves, okay, here's what I'm doing right, which is going to help you with resilienceand self-efficacy.
But autonomy is what am I capable of doing now?
Now that I've done this, what am I capable of?
And see what happens with us when we deal with women, we have relationships, we findourselves challenged when this woman is unattainable.
(18:00):
So we'll pursue, we will engage, we'll have meaningful, substantive interactions with thiswoman.
Now, when we conquer, meaning you've slept with her five times,
so it's not new anymore.
Or when you don't have to worry about her being somewhere because she's got two of yourkids and you know, she's playing her role.
(18:23):
Well, the next stage in your life is what now?
And what we have to ask ourselves without the woman being the catalyst, without a lack ofresources being the catalyst is what now?
What am I doing with myself and my life right now
that is gonna move me toward being the man that I have a vision for being.
(18:47):
Now, the problem with that is this.
Some of us have never seen a man that is quote unquote at that level of function.
We had a dad that he's a man because he built a million dollar company or he's a manbecause he whoops somebody's ass or he's a man
(19:09):
because he's six foot three, 280 pounds.
Well, the truth is those are attributes.
Those are not the constituents of what makes you a man.
And what I think what a lot of us are doing is we're looking for an external solution foran internal problem.
In order to move past mediocrity and to move away from having transactional relationshipswith everybody.
(19:38):
and to move into a transformational space, we have to have the courage to take the roadleast traveled.
And that road is working on yourself, identifying these places in you.
And I'm not talking about the psychological stuff.
I mean, just really going deep and thinking about, you know, here's where I am.
(20:03):
You look around yourself and see who's in your company.
You look around yourself and you see, what is this environment taking from me and what amI giving it?
And when you can examine these deeper structures of your being, now we start talking abouta new definition for masculinity.
(20:24):
I believe that the epitome of coming into what I would call the animus season of yourlife, where you are really
the embodiment of masculinity is when you can admit the things that still hurt you, whenyou can deal with the wounds, you can look at your aspirations and say, you know, I did
(20:51):
achieve that, but what was the point?
What kind of legacy did this achievement I just have bring not only into my life, but tothese offspring that I produced?
In other words, you built a million dollar company.
Your son is an asshole and you are too.
(21:12):
Or you are really a nice guy and you look out for everybody, but you do it at yourexpense.
And you're looking at these situations where you now have this passive aggressive behaviorwith people that actually care about you, but you want the attention from people who don't
give a damn that are just using you
(21:34):
for whatever function you provide.
See, this level of clarity will only come to you through introspection and self-awareness.
Let me jump in here for a second because once again, you're touching upon something thathasn't been talked about on this show.
(21:56):
I think we as men realize that providing and protecting, uh making those we love safe,acting in the best interest of those we love is what masculinity is all about.
We've talked about that a lot around here.
But what you're bringing is a meta-level maturity to that conversation, in my opinion.
Perfectly said.
(22:17):
Because what goes on, you're not just a man.
You're, you're not a boy anymore.
Now you're not just a man.
Now you're a grown ass man.
Now you're in a position to be a mentor for others.
Now you're in a position to make the next generation great.
And what that means is yes, you've accomplished some things.
(22:39):
You've done some things, but instead of being an egotistical douchebag about it, forexample, you relax into that.
and realize it's time to give even that away to the next generation.
Because hey, the people around us when we're at that meta-level stage you're talkingabout, they've been feeling safe and comfortable.
(23:00):
We've been the patriarch in a good way of this family for ages.
You know, the kind of man you're talking about will be the guy the entire extended familygoes to when the chips are down.
When there's a crisis in the family, it'll be like, Uncle Dude, what are we doing?
Because he is that meta-level of safety and security.
He's the guy who, when he shows up, everything's going to be alright.
(23:22):
You know, we know guys like that.
I have had guys I coach who've been high level military officers and, heads of companiesand been put in positions of just extreme stress and their ability to rise above that
stress, count upon their character, expect it to work like it always has...
(23:43):
And if it hasn't, well, we'll make adjustments...
And to kind of shrug off the things beyond our control and stick to what we can controlisn't what separates the men from the boys.
It's what separates the mentors from the men.
And I love what you're talking about, because this is the kind of meat and potatoes theseguys dig into.
Doc, what would you tell guys who want to kind of transcend simply having grown up and bethis guy?
(24:08):
What are the steps?
Where do, where does our mindset need to be?
And where do we need to start modifying our practices in the real world?
Well, that's a great question.
You use this phrase meta and metacognition more specifically.
There is a psychological treatment protocol called the inter-family systems model, right?
(24:31):
If you see that movie Inside Out 2, which I would suggest, I know it doesn't sound like,why the hell would you tell a bunch of men go watch a damn cartoon?
Well, being honest,
it's great.
Yeah, it's fantastic.
Yeah.
that cartoon will allow you to realize that in your brain, there are some different statesthat we tend to overutilize and others we underutilize.
(24:56):
Well, in the interfamily systems model, they put some archetypical references in there tosay, okay, one of them is an executive manager.
The other one is relational.
The other one's a curious explorer.
The other one's a standard setter, just, you know, name a few.
Well,
when we start thinking about how am I showing up...and the hell with other people, how areyou showing up for you?
(25:24):
Now we can start talking.
I'm going to introduce just a little bit of neuroscience to this.
Then at that point, now we ask, okay, well, what and who is driving the bus?
This part of your brain is the prefrontal cortex.
That's the place where you are mindfully present, but these deeper structures going backto where you said primal.
(25:45):
Well, another, you could look this up if you get the time default mode network, thatdefault mode processing is what you revert back to when stuff happens.
What, what is going on is that you recognize something in your environment.
You connect that to an outcome in your past.
So let's say, God forbid, you know, you're a guy, you were molested by some pervert.
(26:08):
Your uncle or coach or whatever.
And that uncle always had on a blue uniform, a police officer's uniform or whatever.
Well, now when you get around somebody that's an authority figure, especially even if theyhave on a blue shirt, blue uniform, there's a part of you kind of mounts up and you're
(26:30):
either ready to fight or flee.
That comes across in your conversation.
Well, what's driving the bus at that point,
is this part of you that wants to protect you.
And sometimes when we allow that part of us to come forward, what we're shutting down isthe part of us that should be more objective.
In other words, we're looking at situations subjectively.
(26:51):
And because we're doing that, we are automatically self-sabotaging what may have beensomething that was meant to come out in our own good.
So when, if we take the time and think about, you know what, what...
part of me makes the dominant decisions in my life.
(27:13):
Now here's a book I want you guys to write down.
It's called Organize Your Emotions, Optimize Your Life.
I'm gonna repeat it again.
Organize Your Emotions, Optimize Your Life.
It's by one of my colleagues at Harvard, Margaret Moore.
And I want you to watch that movie Inside Out 2 because it will set you up to betterunderstand the damn book.
(27:34):
But it's about this interfamily systems model.
So what I'm saying is that uncle that you're looking at or that dad or that cousin thatpeople say, know what, shit hit the fan.
John, what should we do?
That guy, he has learned to regulate that inter-family system in his brain where he canmake a conscious shift from being in default mode and always hypervigilant.
(28:04):
You know the guy, I don't take no shit.
You that guy.
Well, that's an aspect of a persona in your brain.
It's the hypervigilant, right?
Well, what if you actually could be mindfully present enough to slow what's happeningbefore you down and to actually think, okay, I've got some choices in how I'm going to
(28:28):
handle this.
We'll see now when you put that thought process present, you're no longer allowing thedefault mode network
to auto run everything, you are doing something that you hear this term, you're mindfullypresent.
So now in your mindful presence, you stop and think, you know, I may, I smell a rat, Ismell bullshit, but let me, let me chill.
(28:55):
What would the sage part of me, meaning the wise part of me, what would the wise...
what would be, what would be my wise...
my wise advisor's guidance right now?
And see, as we learn to stop being who we've been and to operate in who we're capable ofbeing, now all of a sudden we can go from having many happenstance and defaults outcomes
(29:21):
to creating intentional outcomes.
And that happens simply by you being aware, again, going back to what we said earlier, whoyou are and who you're not.
And when the familiar happens, leaning into what you haven't done versus what you wouldnormally do, and that is going to expand the term for this is neuroplasticity.
(29:46):
That is going to expand the glia in your brain and cause you to be more aware, morecompetent.
And for you to be viewed like that uncle, cousin, grandfather figure who, when the shithits the fan, everybody looks at them and says, what do we do?
That guy can become you when you become intentional about how you want to show up, whichmeans that you can language to yourself, you know what, let me stop doing what I've always
(30:15):
done.
Because if you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to keep getting whatyou've always got.
But the minute that you can dial that back and allow yourself to tap into the deeper,more...
self-actualized, the wiser part of yourself.
Now you can start creating intentional outcomes even in unintended circumstances.
(30:40):
Yeah.
Well, what you're talking about here is again, meta-level.
Instead of just mere self-awareness, which these guys were expecting to hear about today.
You've elevated this to mindfulness, which is where you would become the mentor to theyounger generation.
A couple of things I noticed about what you were talking about.
This idea of kind of having field sense because you've slowed down, you've relaxed, you'renot so inside your head.
(31:04):
You're not in a fear-based mentality anymore.
So you're not worried about your own self-preservation.
You kind of are not fearless, but facing it with courage.
You're being courageous enough that you can start assisting other people.
You put your mask on first before you put the mask on someone else.
That is something that all the little boys and the young men amongst us are missing outon.
(31:28):
You know, when you can make yourself feel safe, when you feel grounded, then and only thencan you have the wherewithal and dare I say the maturity and the masculinity
at this elevated level of mindfulness to help other people.
The other thing I noticed is, of course, we're talking about, you know, not only ourrelationships with our peers professionally, but of course, our relationships with men and
(31:53):
women, we've established that this makes women hot for us.
And, you know, this is again, gentlemen, another reason why older guys get younger women.
If they're my...
if you're a guy out there and you're 30 years old and you've gotten to this meta-levelmindfulness
you're going to get all the women guys.
If you're 22 and can get it, you will get all the women your own age because they don'twant an older guy because he's old.
(32:15):
They want the older guy because of this, this exact thing.
In sports you see it.
Why does a young NBA team need to bring someone in for veteran leadership?
Even if they're going to be first off the bench, sixth man, seventh man, because of this.
(32:36):
A lot of times when people are drafted into the NFL, especially quarterbacks, they can begreat in college, but their first year, they kind of crap the bed a little bit.
Why?
Well, what is often said about those guys when they start coming into their own in the NFLand indeed maybe a point guard in the NBA, right?
A pitcher in major league is, is the game slowed down for them is what you hear them say.
(32:59):
That's this.
In other words, they stopped being horrified
with a ball in their hand that, you know, I'm not dealing with, a couple of guys fromMarshall, right?
Or Weber State anymore, trying to get around my offensive line.
You know, I got freaking Roquan Smith coming at me now.
So that impulse to just shriek like a little girl and run away, that's going to take sometime to tamp down.
(33:23):
But once the game slows down for you and you realize, you know, I'm freaking LamarJackson, you know, freaking Mahomes, I can do this, right?
ah Then the game slows down for you.
Lamar is a great example, by the way, of a guy who the game slowed down for.
Mm-hmm.
And then you start realizing I'm just as talented as these mofos and I can do it.
And then next thing you know, you're headed towards the Hall of Fame and all the youngguys coming up, they're wanting a chance to play with you.
(33:50):
You saw it on the Spurs last year with Chris Paul coming in to play with VictorWembanyama.
That's because Victor Wembanyama is great talent, but he's not this guy yet.
I love it.
I think this has been a fantastic conversation and a necessary one.
And you're so smart and you know your stuff so much and you're challenging me, which I, Ialways relish when guys like you come on this show and do that.
(34:15):
What would you tell these guys who kind of feel like they're Malcolm In The Middle rightnow, Doc?
They're not a little boy.
mean, you know, I don't live at home with my mommy.
I don't run away as soon as something, uh, you know, troublesome comes along.
I can face a challenge.
At least I think I can, but man, I'm not this meta-level Godfather of my family just yet.
Hopefully without the organized crime, right?
(34:37):
What are the mindsets or maybe a couple of practical ways you could get guys off oftop-dead-center here and get them moving towards that self-actualization process?
Well, the first thing is stop looking at what somebody else is doing, what they didn't door did do.
If somebody's, you know, two steps behind you, stop looking down on them and stop lookingup to the guy that's two steps ahead.
(34:58):
The truth is you're right where you need to be right now.
Whatever you've lost, whatever you've acquired, make meaning of that.
And what I mean by that is
there's something, there are times when you are just an effective witness, where you aremeant to shut up, observe and learn some stuff.
(35:25):
There's a time when you're meant to be an encourager and to be the voice in the room thateverybody else wants to say something, but they don't because they figure it'll cost them
something.
It'll cost them that relationship with the guy that gives you the extra hundred bucks orwhatever the hell.
uh
boy who thinks he needs to be alpha all the time.
(35:45):
yeah, that's it.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is, do something the damn about it, right?
If you say, man, you know, I really, wanna be a doctor, I wanna be a surgeon, and you gota GED.
Well, don't go be stupid enough and try to apply to Harvard or to Duke, because you're notgonna get in.
(36:07):
But be humble enough to say, you know what, I got a GED.
Here's what I'm gonna do.
I'm going to go to this community college in San Antonio, New York, LA, wherever the hellyou are.
And I'm going to go there and I'm going to take some basic classes just so I cancommunicate properly.
Cause I can't really write well.
(36:28):
I don't even read well.
And, see by you just being accepting of who you're not.
And I'll use a quote for you.
Marilyn Monroe, she was as dingy as hell, but one thing she said,
was if you can't accept me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best.
You need to tell yourself that you know what?
(36:48):
I'm not at my best right now, so I'm gonna accept me for where I am, but I'm not gonnastay here.
And whatever your next level up, you went and built this mega plumbing company, or youyou've got this auto shop and you're making money.
Okay, that's one aspect of who you are.
(37:09):
Now work on the shit you haven't developed.
Have the courage to realize that, you know what, I've been providing for my family, but Ihaven't been engaging with my family.
Look at how you are showing up, not just for other people, but for yourself.
And the stuff that you want to run from, like I work out five days a week.
(37:31):
You know, I'm 64.
You know, I'm very...
I've had cancer.
But I can pick up 110 pound dumbbells and do four sets with them, you know, 10 reps a set.
Well, somebody would look at that and they'd be like, well, one, why in the hell are youdoing that?
And two, damn, how old are you?
Well, here's the truth.
That shit has nothing to do with why I'm lifting those weights.
(37:54):
I'm lifting those weights because I want to wipe my own ass.
I want to live another 30 years.
In other words, I've come in contact and relationship with the reason why I'm doing whatI'm doing
and where it fits in my life.
So where I'm going with this fellows is this, don't look at what you've done, don't lookat what you haven't done, pay attention to, okay, here's where I am right now, what do I
(38:16):
need to do?
Accept it.
You know, after I had my cancer thing, you know, it went to stage four, all this stuff isa bone from my leg, you know, this inside of this is some tissue from my damn leg.
Well, when I came back, I went back in the gym and
I picked up some 40 pound dumb bells and had to strain.
(38:37):
I literally, no shit, had to strain to just push them up.
But I knew right then and there, said, you know what?
Not only am I gonna get back where I was, I'm gonna get back there better because what Godhas given me, he let me live.
My friend Robert Reed, who played for the Rockets, Robert and I worked out every day,Robert's dead.
(39:00):
Robert got cancer after me.
I remember him saying, I'll pray for you.
And I remember me telling him, bro, go to M.D.
Anderson.
He let his ego choose his medical care.
That's why my dear friend is dead.
A guy that was like my younger brother.
Same thing, dead.
When you get your wake-up call, whatever it is, mine was cancer.
(39:21):
Another one was, okay, all of a sudden I'm not making what I was making.
What the hell?
Why'd my money just drop?
Whatever your wake-up call is.
Accept that and if you're not spiritual and you're agnostic ask the question, what is thisseason in my life teaching me?
And you will get an answer if you just be quiet and still long enough you'll get an answerand then realize, okay, what's my one step I can take to move from where I am to where I'm
(39:50):
supposed to be?
Take that step.
Take it for the right damn reasons and the rest will work itself out.
Well, you know, Doc, if you think about it, that's all you can do.
Everything else would be an excuse.
If you're living in the past, there's no action there because it's in the past.
There's no pro-action.
If it's something so lofty, you're never even going to get to step one with it.
(40:13):
It's an excuse.
But what you have right now, your next step in front of you, you have no excuse to takeit, which is why I love what you said.
His name is Dr.
D.
Ivan Young.
You can call him Doc.
And his new book is actually a massive update of his first book.
And by popular demand, it's coming back out again.
Right about the time that this show is going to drop, it's called Break Up, Don't BreakDown.
(40:36):
And assuming you're talking about uh breaking yourself for the better.
toxic relationships and, let's say your girl left you, but understanding that, you know, arelationship compliments your life.
It doesn't complete your life.
So now that you're in this season where you're going through a divorce, God forbid, youknow, somebody you love, your old lady, your wife died, or where you just realize you know
(41:04):
what, I can't do this shit anymore.
That book is a roadmap to understand
how to deal with that, how to make sense of it, how to evolve from it, and then how tocreate an intentional outcome for the next season in your life, be it alone or with
somebody else.
Beautiful.
And also you have a Netflix special coming up that's under wraps.
(41:27):
Yeah.
say it like this.
I can't tell you guys what it is, but just remember Dr.
D.
Ivan Young and you'll know a lot more about that soon as Netflix decides to share with theworld what they're up to.
I can't wait to watch it myself.
I know it's going to be life-changing.
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be a big deal.
(41:48):
The Reality Check Doctor.
I love it.
I love it.
And when you go to mountaintoppodcast.com/ivan, I-V-A-N, you're going to be magicallyteleported to drdivanyoung.com What are they going to find there Doc?
Uh, resources to help you live a profoundly extraordinary life.
(42:11):
My practice, I don't take everybody, but if, if you and I match and we're here to hear,you'd probably be a good fit for my practice.
I always tell people the truth can withstand inquiry.
Just Google me, put my name in AI and it'll tell you if you're a good fit for me and notin vice-versa.
You know, you're like me.
You're just totally embracing the fact that look, if you've got simple questions, just goto chat GPT and say, what would McKay say?
(42:36):
What would Young say?
And it'll tell you that you don't have to bother me with the simple stuff anymore.
No, I'm, being flippant about saying that, but it really is true.
I'm not afraid of chat GPT in that regard.
mean, If anything, I'd much rather work with the guys who love women, um, want to dobetter or go want to pick themselves up by the bootstraps and really want to dig into
those that ChatGPT can't possibly know about them.
(42:59):
So I love it.
What a great conversation.
uh I immediately sense here that you have a lot to share that we haven't even touched thesurface yet.
So I'm sure hoping that you'll come back and visit us.
Will you do that?
Scot.
was thank you for having me on The Mountain Top Podcast and Scot, you're hell of a coolguy, man.
(43:19):
It's wonderful.
Back at you, man.
I hope we can collaborate on some things.
It'd be great.
Yeah.
Gentlemen, check out, uh, Jocko Willink's company Origin In Maine, The Keyport and HeroSoap...
all of our three long time illustrious sponsors at the mountaintoppodcast.com.
When you get anything from our sponsors, please use the coupon code "mountain10" to get anextra 10 % off.
(43:42):
Also guys check me out on Substack.
It's @scotmckay on Substack.
I
am telling you that if you can handle the truth, just like there, the banner at the top ofthis video version of this podcast, if you're watching instead of listening, which hope
you are, uh, you're going to hear me, see me write about things that you don't hear or seeme talk about much.
(44:02):
That's where I'm putting all the stuff that, uh I wouldn't tell the masses in thenewsletter or possibly even in this podcast.
Nothing bad, just, kind of off the cuff stuff and digging a little deeper.
Go check that out at mountaintoppodcast.com/substack.
Also gentlemen, I'm always here for you.
Uh, I want to challenge each and every one of you guys.
If you haven't gotten on my phone or my Zoom yet and talked to me for free for 25 minutesthat we do that.
(44:27):
Um, I want to know what you think of this show.
I want you, I want to know what you think of the video format, what you think of theguests, the topics you have.
And if it makes sense to put a coaching program together, um, we will do that for you.
All you really need?
My requirements are you be of sound mind
and that you actually like women and that you're trying to succeed, not fail.
(44:47):
Those are the three legs of the stool.
If you can check those off, we're going to work out fine.
All of that and that All of that and more is there for you at mountaintoppodcast.com.
And until I talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X & Y Communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
Be good out there.
Greetings gentlemen, how's it going?
My name is Scot McKay and you're tuned in to yet another Mountain Top Podcast from X & YCommunications.
You can find me all over social media on TikTok on X on YouTube and now on Substack@scotmckay And you can also find me @realscotmckay on Instagram.
(00:22):
Gentlemen, if you're not a part of The Mountain Top Summit on Facebook, sure hope you'lljoin us.
It's a thriving group of men who want to get better with women.
Guys probably a lot like you.
So come join us, have a good old time.
And as always, the website of course is mountaintoppodcast.com.
My guest today is a new friend of mine.
He's very smart.
(00:42):
He's very accomplished.
He's good at what he does.
He's got a new Netflix special coming up and a couple of new books.
So he's getting around and making a name for himself.
And more importantly, helping men just like you live better lives.
His name is Dr.
D.
Ivan Young.
He is The Reality Check Doctor.
How about that...
try that on for size.
He uh more formally is a behavioral neuroscientist out of Houston, Texas, just down I-10from here in San Antonio.
(01:11):
And today we're going to talk about self-aware masculinity.
Everybody just calls him Doc.
Doc, how's it going, man?
It's going well.
I'm looking forward to having this conversation.
Yeah, me too.
Self-awareness seems to me to be something that kind of fell off a cliff during COVID.
Everybody was kind of sequestered on their own without any need to really, you know, beaware at all of anything, let alone other people around them.
(01:37):
And it's kind of like we lost all our skills and forgot about them once we became socialagain.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, you know, one of the things that is critical.
What men think is masculinity typically has not been shaped by anything masculine.
It's been shaped by culture.
(01:58):
It's been shaped by us being raised by men that were emotionally stoic or unavailable.
However, we have to understand that everything evolves.
Many of us, if you're a baby boomer, Gen X, Gen Z, you probably had a dad
(02:19):
that lacked being hugged.
They were either over validated in inappropriate way or not validated at all.
So we have to figure this out now.
Fortunately, we live in a season where information is readily available.
(02:42):
downside to that is a lot of crap is readily available too.
So today, what I'm hoping that we can accomplish and me having the real blessing of beingon the Mountain Top Podcast is that I think clarity provides a path forward.
When we take that path, now we can stop playing and pretending to be macho and to meetsome stereotype, but to become authentic in masculinity.
(03:15):
and what being a man really looks like.
I love it, man.
I'm all here for it.
You know, we talk a lot around here, Doc.
You'd have no way of knowing this.
I don't expect you to be a consumer of massive numbers of episodes since we just met.
Uh, but there's a big difference between being macho and being masculine.
Uh, unfortunately in this society, much to the chagrin of us all, there really isn't afemale equivalent to macho is there.
(03:41):
Women will watch The Hallmark Channel at Christmas time, go get their nails done, go tospa days.
giggle till they snort with all their, you know, BFFs on Friday night drinking chocolatemartinis, uh, go to the mall and we don't want anything to do with any of that because to
us that's kind of just the slag that comes with them being women.
(04:02):
It's not what attracts us to women.
It's what they do that we kind of just don't want to be a part of.
Meanwhile, over here on the men's side, you know, we drink each other under the table, goplay golf, drive big four wheel drive trucks, tinker with our Harleys and our mountain
bikes in the garage.
You know, talk big game, uh bust on each other, you know, that's all macho stuff thatwomen are like, well, I guess the guys are just going to do that, but I'm not interested.
(04:28):
Meanwhile, that kernel of sexual energy, the masculine and the feminine, igniting eachother sexually, you know, to, bring about a really the, the socio...
The psychosocial part of sexuality is what that masculinity and femininity does.
(04:50):
So we as men are going to have to carry ourselves, conduct ourselves in a way that reallyshould be primally ingrained within us.
But it seems like you just so eloquently started to get at there, Doc.
It just seems like society is trying to shift us away from what masculinity really meansand either trying to
(05:11):
have us reimagine masculinity as whatever we want.
We're trying to really turn us more into women.
Meanwhile, women, um, who are angry at men for what men have done to them, you know,sometimes rightly so, uh, want to pronounce all masculinity is toxic and you know, you
guys are going to have to do better, whatever that means, but we haven't been told whatthat means.
(05:33):
So the idea of all masculinity being toxic and you should just stuff it down and stop it.
Meanwhile,
that's there.
But meanwhile, women in many ways are taking the positive masculinity and co-opting it forthemselves in the workplace.
And to me, what that does is it cheapens femininity.
Because in my mind, Doc femininity is is what we're all here for.
(05:57):
It's everything we live for on weekends.
It's everything that the beauty and the joy and the fun and the play and the hospitalityand the comfort that women bring to the world.
And we as men making women feel safe and secure and protected
to bring that femininity out into the world.
It just seems like a real shame to me that all of that has gotten diluted at best and uhignored or even redirected at worst towards this, this really, yes, it's a dilution of
(06:26):
society where masculinity and femininity don't matter anymore.
As you know, once a word can mean anything, it means nothing.
You know, just like if God can be whoever you want God to be, then there is no definitionof God.
If masculinity and femininity could be whatever you dream it to be, then there is nodefinition of masculinity and femininity anymore.
(06:49):
I don't know if any or all that tracks with what you're getting at, but I'd love to hearyour version.
Go for it.
you covered a lot of things.
So there's a way to deconstruct this.
The first thing is you used this word primal earlier.
And primal by definition is operating from the part of the brain...
(07:12):
that the deeper structures, the amygdala and the thalamus and the red nuclei and all thatstuff.
But bottom line is,
our visceral reactions are predicated on fight or flight, freeze, procreate, survive,pleasure, pain, type, signaling.
And what we're reacting to is cues in the environment.
(07:35):
Well, you know, primal man had to do one thing, survive.
And when you're in survival mode, you're not having higher functions.
A good example, you look at a guy digging out in the trash.
Well, he is in survival mode.
He's not thinking about germs.
(07:56):
He's not thinking about calories.
He just wants to eat.
And to meet that need, he will see, can I consume this?
Does it smell?
Is it sour?
I'm going to eat it because I will no longer be hungry.
Well, fortunately, many of us are not in survival mode anymore.
(08:17):
But there some of us that are and don't even know it.
When that happens, we look at women and we look at masculinity as part of an ecosystem onone level, like I need someone to take care of me.
You know, that's when you see a lesser evolved man or a man that's not economicallystable, he will look to a woman as a resource, like, you know what, baby, can I have $20
(08:43):
or as validation.
man, this chick is so hot, nudging his friends, hey, look at that.
And then he's looking at a butt and her boobs or whatever.
So now he's using this woman as a source of validation rather than as someone to engage ina meaningful dialogue or play a meaningful role.
So what's happening with us is we've got this intersection where you have men that areself-actualized and self-sufficient.
(09:11):
You have men over here that are broken.
They are victims of their environment.
You've got a section over here that culturally and socially, they're in a diminished stateeither because they don't have the right melanin content in their skin or the right hair
texture, or they're the minority group and whatever that is, that dynamic is.
(09:34):
And then you got guys over here that simply, they just don't care.
They're checked out and they are checked out because they feel like, who cares about me?
So why should I care about you?
What we have to do is show ourselves a little compassion, show ourselves a little empathy,and accept not just who we are, but let's kind of take a look at who we're not.
(10:01):
And when we can look at ourselves and say, you know, I don't have that big house or Idon't have that big $150 truck.
Matter of fact, I'm on the bus.
$150 truck.
That's me.
you know what I mean?
We're on the, well, I should have added the other zeros, but $150,000 truck, but whenyou're a guy, yeah, when you're a guy and you're really trying to make sense of life, that
(10:31):
can't happen until you make sense of yourself.
And as we learn to make sense of ourselves, which is probably a good idea,
now we're positioning ourselves to not only see ourselves the way that others may see us,but we at that point, by intention, can shape how we want ourselves to be seen by others.
(10:58):
Let me go ahead and jump in here because you're touching on wonderful things and there'sso many great things to cover.
You would have no way of knowing this, but a lot of what you're talking about we'vecovered on this show before, but you've said a couple things that are so brilliantly
different that I want to make sure they don't just wash under the bridge.
Um, clearly, you know, you're talking about the Maslovian hierarchy.
(11:19):
You know, if I,
haven't eaten for a couple of days, it may feel like, yeah, I'm really hungry, but youknow, put concrete shoes on me and throw me at the bottom of the lake, and all I can think
about is oxygen, oxygen, just like right now, too many words in one sentence.
But you know, the guys were there self actualizing, which of course is a very Maslovianterm.
(11:40):
They don't have to think about where their next meal is coming from, et cetera, et cetera,but not all of us as men are to that point logistically in our lives yet.
So I think that really
does affect where we're going to be coming from.
And you can call it primal archetypal, whatever that deep seated uh history is within us,within us from, from olden days.
(12:04):
We are going to be in fight or flight mode, either in ways we recognize, or if we're more,if we're further up that Maslovian pyramid, it's going to sneak up on us.
Just like you're saying, you know, we're still going to be looking for reasons to fightand flight and you know,
not to open up a can of worms, but I would think that absolutely succinctly nails whypeople get on social media and complain about and bitch about and fly the flag for and die
(12:32):
on the hill of things that don't even affect their life politically, whatever, becauseit's a mess and people don't have anything better to do.
The other thing that is even arguably more important that you just talked about is youwere talking about men growing up, expecting women to still take care of them.
I believe for a lot of guys, there's no rite...
rite of passage where they even sometimes literally move out from under their mommy'sroof.
(12:57):
There's guys still living at home with their mommy and daddy at age 30 wondering why womenaren't attracted.
And it's because there's been no rite of passage where that handoff is made from where aman sees women as someone providing for them to where they're going to be the man of the
house.
And now they're going to be the provider and protector, which is inherently attractive towomen as masculinity.
So when there is a total blind spot there, that's it.
(13:19):
That's even necessary.
It allows men to remain in their comfort familiarity zone where, you know, it seems like,hey this is the easy button.
I just hit that in my bed's made and my meals are paid for.
I don't even have to go get a job.
don't have to have any stress, but they're also not self-actualizing because they're stillstuck being boys instead of men.
(13:40):
So the twist that you put on that is a man also coming from the same place.
If, and when he says, look,
she's a fine piece of ass.
Look, gentlemen, look at my trophy.
Because then that's a woman, wait for it, still providing him.
His ego, his sense of validation is I have a hot chick.
(14:05):
And yet my thought process, and I think, again, you've brought up something fantastichere.
This is going to be life changing for a lot of guys.
This has never been talked about on this show, which I'm always looking for...new topicslike that.
If you have a situation where basically he might as well be
at home on his mommy's couch, not adulting, because the woman is going to be equallyunimpressed that she's being used for his validation.
(14:27):
She needs him to man up.
And you know, another thing you alluded to know who the hell he is.
That's called having character.
Knowing what his belief system is, who he is, what he's good at, what he's not good at,you know, doing the right thing as he interprets it.
um Even when nobody is, is looking.
or based on his God, based on his religious beliefs, whatever that core belief system isthat's underpinning his character, he sticks to it.
(14:53):
Without that, whether you are simply trying to call your next girlfriend mommy, or you'retrying to get her to validate you because she's your trophy girlfriend, the end result in
that woman's mind, in her psyche, is her femininity just doesn't want any.
Well, there are a couple of things that go with what you said.
So, going back to, you use this word archetype and that for people that don't know whatthat is, that that's this persona that embodies an aspect of function, belief, status or
(15:29):
what have you.
So many of us are living in an architect...
an archetype, excuse me, that has been our protector.
Or it's been our source of oh self-worth, of validation.
Here's a good example of this.
I have a whole lot of high net worth public figure type clients that come to my practiceto see me.
(15:55):
Some of these guys, they could write a check and the bank will bounce.
Now what's happened is they either had an athletic prowess, they were born with the rightlast name, uh and
they realize that, you know what, because I do this, I am esteemed and I'm honored.
So you should acquiesce to me.
(16:16):
And they look at that from friends to women.
What we don't look at is, what ecosystem is feeding that?
And a lot of your frenemies that are, you're picking up the tab, you're buying the beers,you're buying a round, you had a damn suite at the stadium.
Those guys aren't expecting anything more from you
(16:39):
than what their selfish association with you brings and provides for them.
You know, I call it this wingman effect where, you know, the guy makes a good wingman.
Well, of course, because he doesn't have his own damn plane, number one.
Number two, what you attract when you have him on board and co-pilots him with you raiseshis value.
Well, this a good way to think about this is if you're the smartest guy on your team, youneed a new team, right?
(17:07):
You get in a relationship
If you're the smart, Norman Schwarzkopf also said something similar.
If you're, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.
Yeah.
what happens with us is that we should question ourselves and question, alright, here'swhere I am.
If you're going to become, I'll use the phrase self actualize because I don't think weever really reach that, you know, but I think as we strive for it, then we have to ask
(17:38):
ourselves, okay, here's what I'm doing right, which is going to help you with resilienceand self-efficacy.
But autonomy is what am I capable of doing now?
Now that I've done this, what am I capable of?
And see what happens with us when we deal with women, we have relationships, we findourselves challenged when this woman is unattainable.
(18:00):
So we'll pursue, we will engage, we'll have meaningful, substantive interactions with thiswoman.
Now, when we conquer, meaning you've slept with her five times,
so it's not new anymore.
Or when you don't have to worry about her being somewhere because she's got two of yourkids and you know, she's playing her role.
(18:23):
Well, the next stage in your life is what now?
And what we have to ask ourselves without the woman being the catalyst, without a lack ofresources being the catalyst is what now?
What am I doing with myself and my life right now
that is gonna move me toward being the man that I have a vision for being.
(18:47):
Now, the problem with that is this.
Some of us have never seen a man that is quote unquote at that level of function.
We had a dad that he's a man because he built a million dollar company or he's a manbecause he whoops somebody's ass or he's a man
(19:09):
because he's six foot three, 280 pounds.
Well, the truth is those are attributes.
Those are not the constituents of what makes you a man.
And what I think what a lot of us are doing is we're looking for an external solution foran internal problem.
In order to move past mediocrity and to move away from having transactional relationshipswith everybody.
(19:38):
and to move into a transformational space, we have to have the courage to take the roadleast traveled.
And that road is working on yourself, identifying these places in you.
And I'm not talking about the psychological stuff.
I mean, just really going deep and thinking about, you know, here's where I am.
(20:03):
You look around yourself and see who's in your company.
You look around yourself and you see, what is this environment taking from me and what amI giving it?
And when you can examine these deeper structures of your being, now we start talking abouta new definition for masculinity.
(20:24):
I believe that the epitome of coming into what I would call the animus season of yourlife, where you are really
the embodiment of masculinity is when you can admit the things that still hurt you, whenyou can deal with the wounds, you can look at your aspirations and say, you know, I did
(20:51):
achieve that, but what was the point?
What kind of legacy did this achievement I just have bring not only into my life, but tothese offspring that I produced?
In other words, you built a million dollar company.
Your son is an asshole and you are too.
(21:12):
Or you are really a nice guy and you look out for everybody, but you do it at yourexpense.
And you're looking at these situations where you now have this passive aggressive behaviorwith people that actually care about you, but you want the attention from people who don't
give a damn that are just using you
(21:34):
for whatever function you provide.
See, this level of clarity will only come to you through introspection and self-awareness.
Let me jump in here for a second because once again, you're touching upon something thathasn't been talked about on this show.
(21:56):
I think we as men realize that providing and protecting, uh making those we love safe,acting in the best interest of those we love is what masculinity is all about.
We've talked about that a lot around here.
But what you're bringing is a meta-level maturity to that conversation, in my opinion.
Perfectly said.
(22:17):
Because what goes on, you're not just a man.
You're, you're not a boy anymore.
Now you're not just a man.
Now you're a grown ass man.
Now you're in a position to be a mentor for others.
Now you're in a position to make the next generation great.
And what that means is yes, you've accomplished some things.
(22:39):
You've done some things, but instead of being an egotistical douchebag about it, forexample, you relax into that.
and realize it's time to give even that away to the next generation.
Because hey, the people around us when we're at that meta-level stage you're talkingabout, they've been feeling safe and comfortable.
(23:00):
We've been the patriarch in a good way of this family for ages.
You know, the kind of man you're talking about will be the guy the entire extended familygoes to when the chips are down.
When there's a crisis in the family, it'll be like, Uncle Dude, what are we doing?
Because he is that meta-level of safety and security.
He's the guy who, when he shows up, everything's going to be alright.
(23:22):
You know, we know guys like that.
I have had guys I coach who've been high level military officers and, heads of companiesand been put in positions of just extreme stress and their ability to rise above that
stress, count upon their character, expect it to work like it always has...
(23:43):
And if it hasn't, well, we'll make adjustments...
And to kind of shrug off the things beyond our control and stick to what we can controlisn't what separates the men from the boys.
It's what separates the mentors from the men.
And I love what you're talking about, because this is the kind of meat and potatoes theseguys dig into.
Doc, what would you tell guys who want to kind of transcend simply having grown up and bethis guy?
(24:08):
What are the steps?
Where do, where does our mindset need to be?
And where do we need to start modifying our practices in the real world?
Well, that's a great question.
You use this phrase meta and metacognition more specifically.
There is a psychological treatment protocol called the inter-family systems model, right?
(24:31):
If you see that movie Inside Out 2, which I would suggest, I know it doesn't sound like,why the hell would you tell a bunch of men go watch a damn cartoon?
Well, being honest,
it's great.
Yeah, it's fantastic.
Yeah.
that cartoon will allow you to realize that in your brain, there are some different statesthat we tend to overutilize and others we underutilize.
(24:56):
Well, in the interfamily systems model, they put some archetypical references in there tosay, okay, one of them is an executive manager.
The other one is relational.
The other one's a curious explorer.
The other one's a standard setter, just, you know, name a few.
Well,
when we start thinking about how am I showing up...and the hell with other people, how areyou showing up for you?
(25:24):
Now we can start talking.
I'm going to introduce just a little bit of neuroscience to this.
Then at that point, now we ask, okay, well, what and who is driving the bus?
This part of your brain is the prefrontal cortex.
That's the place where you are mindfully present, but these deeper structures going backto where you said primal.
(25:45):
Well, another, you could look this up if you get the time default mode network, thatdefault mode processing is what you revert back to when stuff happens.
What, what is going on is that you recognize something in your environment.
You connect that to an outcome in your past.
So let's say, God forbid, you know, you're a guy, you were molested by some pervert.
(26:08):
Your uncle or coach or whatever.
And that uncle always had on a blue uniform, a police officer's uniform or whatever.
Well, now when you get around somebody that's an authority figure, especially even if theyhave on a blue shirt, blue uniform, there's a part of you kind of mounts up and you're
(26:30):
either ready to fight or flee.
That comes across in your conversation.
Well, what's driving the bus at that point,
is this part of you that wants to protect you.
And sometimes when we allow that part of us to come forward, what we're shutting down isthe part of us that should be more objective.
In other words, we're looking at situations subjectively.
(26:51):
And because we're doing that, we are automatically self-sabotaging what may have beensomething that was meant to come out in our own good.
So when, if we take the time and think about, you know what, what...
part of me makes the dominant decisions in my life.
(27:13):
Now here's a book I want you guys to write down.
It's called Organize Your Emotions, Optimize Your Life.
I'm gonna repeat it again.
Organize Your Emotions, Optimize Your Life.
It's by one of my colleagues at Harvard, Margaret Moore.
And I want you to watch that movie Inside Out 2 because it will set you up to betterunderstand the damn book.
(27:34):
But it's about this interfamily systems model.
So what I'm saying is that uncle that you're looking at or that dad or that cousin thatpeople say, know what, shit hit the fan.
John, what should we do?
That guy, he has learned to regulate that inter-family system in his brain where he canmake a conscious shift from being in default mode and always hypervigilant.
(28:04):
You know the guy, I don't take no shit.
You that guy.
Well, that's an aspect of a persona in your brain.
It's the hypervigilant, right?
Well, what if you actually could be mindfully present enough to slow what's happeningbefore you down and to actually think, okay, I've got some choices in how I'm going to
(28:28):
handle this.
We'll see now when you put that thought process present, you're no longer allowing thedefault mode network
to auto run everything, you are doing something that you hear this term, you're mindfullypresent.
So now in your mindful presence, you stop and think, you know, I may, I smell a rat, Ismell bullshit, but let me, let me chill.
(28:55):
What would the sage part of me, meaning the wise part of me, what would the wise...
what would be, what would be my wise...
my wise advisor's guidance right now?
And see, as we learn to stop being who we've been and to operate in who we're capable ofbeing, now all of a sudden we can go from having many happenstance and defaults outcomes
(29:21):
to creating intentional outcomes.
And that happens simply by you being aware, again, going back to what we said earlier, whoyou are and who you're not.
And when the familiar happens, leaning into what you haven't done versus what you wouldnormally do, and that is going to expand the term for this is neuroplasticity.
(29:46):
That is going to expand the glia in your brain and cause you to be more aware, morecompetent.
And for you to be viewed like that uncle, cousin, grandfather figure who, when the shithits the fan, everybody looks at them and says, what do we do?
That guy can become you when you become intentional about how you want to show up, whichmeans that you can language to yourself, you know what, let me stop doing what I've always
(30:15):
done.
Because if you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to keep getting whatyou've always got.
But the minute that you can dial that back and allow yourself to tap into the deeper,more...
self-actualized, the wiser part of yourself.
Now you can start creating intentional outcomes even in unintended circumstances.
(30:40):
Yeah.
Well, what you're talking about here is again, meta-level.
Instead of just mere self-awareness, which these guys were expecting to hear about today.
You've elevated this to mindfulness, which is where you would become the mentor to theyounger generation.
A couple of things I noticed about what you were talking about.
This idea of kind of having field sense because you've slowed down, you've relaxed, you'renot so inside your head.
(31:04):
You're not in a fear-based mentality anymore.
So you're not worried about your own self-preservation.
You kind of are not fearless, but facing it with courage.
You're being courageous enough that you can start assisting other people.
You put your mask on first before you put the mask on someone else.
That is something that all the little boys and the young men amongst us are missing outon.
(31:28):
You know, when you can make yourself feel safe, when you feel grounded, then and only thencan you have the wherewithal and dare I say the maturity and the masculinity
at this elevated level of mindfulness to help other people.
The other thing I noticed is, of course, we're talking about, you know, not only ourrelationships with our peers professionally, but of course, our relationships with men and
(31:53):
women, we've established that this makes women hot for us.
And, you know, this is again, gentlemen, another reason why older guys get younger women.
If they're my...
if you're a guy out there and you're 30 years old and you've gotten to this meta-levelmindfulness
you're going to get all the women guys.
If you're 22 and can get it, you will get all the women your own age because they don'twant an older guy because he's old.
(32:15):
They want the older guy because of this, this exact thing.
In sports you see it.
Why does a young NBA team need to bring someone in for veteran leadership?
Even if they're going to be first off the bench, sixth man, seventh man, because of this.
(32:36):
A lot of times when people are drafted into the NFL, especially quarterbacks, they can begreat in college, but their first year, they kind of crap the bed a little bit.
Why?
Well, what is often said about those guys when they start coming into their own in the NFLand indeed maybe a point guard in the NBA, right?
A pitcher in major league is, is the game slowed down for them is what you hear them say.
(32:59):
That's this.
In other words, they stopped being horrified
with a ball in their hand that, you know, I'm not dealing with, a couple of guys fromMarshall, right?
Or Weber State anymore, trying to get around my offensive line.
You know, I got freaking Roquan Smith coming at me now.
So that impulse to just shriek like a little girl and run away, that's going to take sometime to tamp down.
(33:23):
But once the game slows down for you and you realize, you know, I'm freaking LamarJackson, you know, freaking Mahomes, I can do this, right?
ah Then the game slows down for you.
Lamar is a great example, by the way, of a guy who the game slowed down for.
Mm-hmm.
And then you start realizing I'm just as talented as these mofos and I can do it.
And then next thing you know, you're headed towards the Hall of Fame and all the youngguys coming up, they're wanting a chance to play with you.
(33:50):
You saw it on the Spurs last year with Chris Paul coming in to play with VictorWembanyama.
That's because Victor Wembanyama is great talent, but he's not this guy yet.
I love it.
I think this has been a fantastic conversation and a necessary one.
And you're so smart and you know your stuff so much and you're challenging me, which I, Ialways relish when guys like you come on this show and do that.
(34:15):
What would you tell these guys who kind of feel like they're Malcolm In The Middle rightnow, Doc?
They're not a little boy.
mean, you know, I don't live at home with my mommy.
I don't run away as soon as something, uh, you know, troublesome comes along.
I can face a challenge.
At least I think I can, but man, I'm not this meta-level Godfather of my family just yet.
Hopefully without the organized crime, right?
(34:37):
What are the mindsets or maybe a couple of practical ways you could get guys off oftop-dead-center here and get them moving towards that self-actualization process?
Well, the first thing is stop looking at what somebody else is doing, what they didn't door did do.
If somebody's, you know, two steps behind you, stop looking down on them and stop lookingup to the guy that's two steps ahead.
(34:58):
The truth is you're right where you need to be right now.
Whatever you've lost, whatever you've acquired, make meaning of that.
And what I mean by that is
there's something, there are times when you are just an effective witness, where you aremeant to shut up, observe and learn some stuff.
(35:25):
There's a time when you're meant to be an encourager and to be the voice in the room thateverybody else wants to say something, but they don't because they figure it'll cost them
something.
It'll cost them that relationship with the guy that gives you the extra hundred bucks orwhatever the hell.
uh
boy who thinks he needs to be alpha all the time.
(35:45):
yeah, that's it.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is, do something the damn about it, right?
If you say, man, you know, I really, wanna be a doctor, I wanna be a surgeon, and you gota GED.
Well, don't go be stupid enough and try to apply to Harvard or to Duke, because you're notgonna get in.
(36:07):
But be humble enough to say, you know what, I got a GED.
Here's what I'm gonna do.
I'm going to go to this community college in San Antonio, New York, LA, wherever the hellyou are.
And I'm going to go there and I'm going to take some basic classes just so I cancommunicate properly.
Cause I can't really write well.
(36:28):
I don't even read well.
And, see by you just being accepting of who you're not.
And I'll use a quote for you.
Marilyn Monroe, she was as dingy as hell, but one thing she said,
was if you can't accept me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best.
You need to tell yourself that you know what?
(36:48):
I'm not at my best right now, so I'm gonna accept me for where I am, but I'm not gonnastay here.
And whatever your next level up, you went and built this mega plumbing company, or youyou've got this auto shop and you're making money.
Okay, that's one aspect of who you are.
(37:09):
Now work on the shit you haven't developed.
Have the courage to realize that, you know what, I've been providing for my family, but Ihaven't been engaging with my family.
Look at how you are showing up, not just for other people, but for yourself.
And the stuff that you want to run from, like I work out five days a week.
(37:31):
You know, I'm 64.
You know, I'm very...
I've had cancer.
But I can pick up 110 pound dumbbells and do four sets with them, you know, 10 reps a set.
Well, somebody would look at that and they'd be like, well, one, why in the hell are youdoing that?
And two, damn, how old are you?
Well, here's the truth.
That shit has nothing to do with why I'm lifting those weights.
(37:54):
I'm lifting those weights because I want to wipe my own ass.
I want to live another 30 years.
In other words, I've come in contact and relationship with the reason why I'm doing whatI'm doing
and where it fits in my life.
So where I'm going with this fellows is this, don't look at what you've done, don't lookat what you haven't done, pay attention to, okay, here's where I am right now, what do I
(38:16):
need to do?
Accept it.
You know, after I had my cancer thing, you know, it went to stage four, all this stuff isa bone from my leg, you know, this inside of this is some tissue from my damn leg.
Well, when I came back, I went back in the gym and
I picked up some 40 pound dumb bells and had to strain.
(38:37):
I literally, no shit, had to strain to just push them up.
But I knew right then and there, said, you know what?
Not only am I gonna get back where I was, I'm gonna get back there better because what Godhas given me, he let me live.
My friend Robert Reed, who played for the Rockets, Robert and I worked out every day,Robert's dead.
(39:00):
Robert got cancer after me.
I remember him saying, I'll pray for you.
And I remember me telling him, bro, go to M.D.
Anderson.
He let his ego choose his medical care.
That's why my dear friend is dead.
A guy that was like my younger brother.
Same thing, dead.
When you get your wake-up call, whatever it is, mine was cancer.
(39:21):
Another one was, okay, all of a sudden I'm not making what I was making.
What the hell?
Why'd my money just drop?
Whatever your wake-up call is.
Accept that and if you're not spiritual and you're agnostic ask the question, what is thisseason in my life teaching me?
And you will get an answer if you just be quiet and still long enough you'll get an answerand then realize, okay, what's my one step I can take to move from where I am to where I'm
(39:50):
supposed to be?
Take that step.
Take it for the right damn reasons and the rest will work itself out.
Well, you know, Doc, if you think about it, that's all you can do.
Everything else would be an excuse.
If you're living in the past, there's no action there because it's in the past.
There's no pro-action.
If it's something so lofty, you're never even going to get to step one with it.
(40:13):
It's an excuse.
But what you have right now, your next step in front of you, you have no excuse to takeit, which is why I love what you said.
His name is Dr.
D.
Ivan Young.
You can call him Doc.
And his new book is actually a massive update of his first book.
And by popular demand, it's coming back out again.
Right about the time that this show is going to drop, it's called Break Up, Don't BreakDown.
(40:36):
And assuming you're talking about uh breaking yourself for the better.
toxic relationships and, let's say your girl left you, but understanding that, you know, arelationship compliments your life.
It doesn't complete your life.
So now that you're in this season where you're going through a divorce, God forbid, youknow, somebody you love, your old lady, your wife died, or where you just realize you know
(41:04):
what, I can't do this shit anymore.
That book is a roadmap to understand
how to deal with that, how to make sense of it, how to evolve from it, and then how tocreate an intentional outcome for the next season in your life, be it alone or with
somebody else.
Beautiful.
And also you have a Netflix special coming up that's under wraps.
(41:27):
Yeah.
say it like this.
I can't tell you guys what it is, but just remember Dr.
D.
Ivan Young and you'll know a lot more about that soon as Netflix decides to share with theworld what they're up to.
I can't wait to watch it myself.
I know it's going to be life-changing.
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be a big deal.
(41:48):
The Reality Check Doctor.
I love it.
I love it.
And when you go to mountaintoppodcast.com/ivan, I-V-A-N, you're going to be magicallyteleported to drdivanyoung.com What are they going to find there Doc?
Uh, resources to help you live a profoundly extraordinary life.
(42:11):
My practice, I don't take everybody, but if, if you and I match and we're here to hear,you'd probably be a good fit for my practice.
I always tell people the truth can withstand inquiry.
Just Google me, put my name in AI and it'll tell you if you're a good fit for me and notin vice-versa.
You know, you're like me.
You're just totally embracing the fact that look, if you've got simple questions, just goto chat GPT and say, what would McKay say?
(42:36):
What would Young say?
And it'll tell you that you don't have to bother me with the simple stuff anymore.
No, I'm, being flippant about saying that, but it really is true.
I'm not afraid of chat GPT in that regard.
mean, If anything, I'd much rather work with the guys who love women, um, want to dobetter or go want to pick themselves up by the bootstraps and really want to dig into
those that ChatGPT can't possibly know about them.
(42:59):
So I love it.
What a great conversation.
uh I immediately sense here that you have a lot to share that we haven't even touched thesurface yet.
So I'm sure hoping that you'll come back and visit us.
Will you do that?
Scot.
was thank you for having me on The Mountain Top Podcast and Scot, you're hell of a coolguy, man.
(43:19):
It's wonderful.
Back at you, man.
I hope we can collaborate on some things.
It'd be great.
Yeah.
Gentlemen, check out, uh, Jocko Willink's company Origin In Maine, The Keyport and HeroSoap...
all of our three long time illustrious sponsors at the mountaintoppodcast.com.
When you get anything from our sponsors, please use the coupon code "mountain10" to get anextra 10 % off.
(43:42):
Also guys check me out on Substack.
It's @scotmckay on Substack.
I
am telling you that if you can handle the truth, just like there, the banner at the top ofthis video version of this podcast, if you're watching instead of listening, which hope
you are, uh, you're going to hear me, see me write about things that you don't hear or seeme talk about much.
(44:02):
That's where I'm putting all the stuff that, uh I wouldn't tell the masses in thenewsletter or possibly even in this podcast.
Nothing bad, just, kind of off the cuff stuff and digging a little deeper.
Go check that out at mountaintoppodcast.com/substack.
Also gentlemen, I'm always here for you.
Uh, I want to challenge each and every one of you guys.
If you haven't gotten on my phone or my Zoom yet and talked to me for free for 25 minutesthat we do that.
(44:27):
Um, I want to know what you think of this show.
I want you, I want to know what you think of the video format, what you think of theguests, the topics you have.
And if it makes sense to put a coaching program together, um, we will do that for you.
All you really need?
My requirements are you be of sound mind
and that you actually like women and that you're trying to succeed, not fail.
(44:47):
Those are the three legs of the stool.
If you can check those off, we're going to work out fine.
All of that and that All of that and more is there for you at mountaintoppodcast.com.
And until I talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X & Y Communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
Be good out there.
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