August 21, 2025 • 47 mins
Co-Host Cassie Leigh (https://mountaintoppodcast.com/cassie) You asked for this, gentlemen. And fair warning...you're getting what you asked for. In this episode, I welcome Cassie Leigh who's a journalist, author and Instagram chick. And yes, you're about to get a real woman's opinion on what it's like to be single and dating out there nowadays. Just make sure you fasten your seat belts, because it's a wild ride. Some of you are going to love what she has to say, while others of you will probably get super angry over it. Most of us will feel a little bit of both at some point or another in the conversation, and rightly so no matter what. Well, for starters, Cassie tells a dating nightmare story where a guy knew one of her exes and said exactly what it took to blow his chances. What does Cassie have to say about today's disturbing trend toward transactional relationships? Next, we find out (surprise, surprise) that Cassie's a true 'Daddy's girl', which contributed to many of her old-school values about men and masculinity, and women and femininity. Speaking of which, despite so many men complaining that women want to be lazy and not contribute anything to the relationship, Cassie reports men openly announcing they're 'sassy' and want women to do everything for them and pay their own way. What's up with all of that? Next, we move on to discussing how Cassie has to 'man up' because most guys simply don't know how to. And THAT is when the bomb gets dropped...(drum roll)...Cassie has a boyfriend. And no, she's not happy. Why is she still in that relationship? Well...that's where you're just going to have to listen in to get all the gory details of that one. Gentlemen...the bottom line here is you can get an amazing woman who really wants a great relationship if you're willing just to bring SOMETHING to the table. Yes...contrary to what we think women are 'demanding' of us out there, it really has become that simple and easy. Get in on all the free goodies and more at https://mountaintoppodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
How's it going gentlemen?
This is your main man Scot McKay coming at you again with another episode of The MountainTop Podcast from X & Y Communications.
I am your host Scot McKay & you can find me at Scot McKay on YouTube, on Tik Tok on TruthSocial & on X.
And if you want to find me on Instagram, you're going to need to put a real in front ofthe Scot McKay because it's at real Scot McKay.
(00:26):
I'm on threads too, but stay off it.
It's terrible.
It's like,
just bunch of people complaining, which is pretty much the opposite mindset of our show.
So just don't go there.
Find me on X or come join the Mountain Top Summit Facebook group is what you really shoulddo.
The website as always is just like you see at the top of this.
If you're watching the video Mountaintoppodcast.com, that's where all the goodies are.
(00:51):
And speaking of which, I have a new friend of mine, first time guest, & she wrote mevehemently wanting to express her
Multitude of opinions on how men are nowadays what women are really looking for & if Iknow you guys I think you're going to like what you're about to hear uh Cassie Leigh is my
(01:12):
guest.
She's from Tampa, Florida She's a journal journalist & editor & an author Welcome Cassie.
Welcome to the show
Hi Scot, thank you so much for having me on here, following up with what you said about,you know, having some very strong opinions.
I definitely do.
(01:34):
And I can't wait to dive right into them.
Well, I think based on how mellifluous your voice is & your general appearance, I thinkmost guys are ready to just listen to you read the phone book.
It won't matter.
But I'm going to respect your intelligence enough to fully realize that you've got a lotto offer here.
What made you really passionate about this topic and go ahead & speak up, speak loudly,let these guys hear you & don't be ashamed of it because I have a feeling a lot of guys
(02:05):
are going to be ready for what you have to say.
So let the fur fly, Cassie have at it.
Okay, well first & foremost, let me just say.
It is awful being a traditional values type of lady in the world of dating in Americatoday.
(02:27):
I mean, I don't know if this is a problem in Europe.
I don't know if this is a problem in Asia, but in America, oh my goodness, I have had theworst experiences um with guys.
um And I think...
You know, one thing that really gets me is that I've been on tons of dates & those haveonly turned into a few actual relationships.
(02:57):
And it's just because like, it's usually like the first date & then I'm like, no, this isnot going to work.
And I'll give you an example.
Okay.
I went on a date with a guy once &
We had just been talking, like we had like mutual connections um as far as like what wedid in the industry.
(03:20):
So he had mentioned something about like, you went out with so-and-so at this one point,what happened to that?
And I mentioned, I was like, well, you know, that's, that's not really like something thatI wanted to pursue.
And then he like slipped in this comment that like, oh, well that guy could have datedlike supermodels.
And I was like,
(03:41):
From that point on I was like that was so mean like okay.
I know that I'm not I'm not a supermodel.
I am not you know seven foot tall.
I'm not super skinny, but like come on like we're on a date together like I don't know...
it still sits with me, & I'm still upset by that
(04:04):
Well, not like most of us as men want to go date the female version of Victor Wembanyamaor like Britney Griner or some other assorted seven foot tall female human being.
I would guess that that guy just simply lacked self-awareness on a couple of fronts.
You know, lacking self-awareness is not exactly confidence inspiring to women because youwant a man who can provide & protect.
(04:27):
And that's what really turns women on at the primal level.
You're not going to disagree with me because no woman ever has.
You're already nodding your head.
So here he comes.
He, first of all, wants to talk about your last boyfriend who he happens to know as anacquaintance.
Awkward.
Okay.
First of all, second of all, who cares about the last guy?
He's in the rear view mirror.
(04:47):
Now you're sitting in front of him.
What is there to talk about?
Am I onto something?
Yeah, um & well
I am just at a loss for words because like I said, I'm still mad about it & it stillreally hurts & I still don't really understand why somebody would think that that was okay
(05:12):
to say.
But I like your take on it that he just lacked self-awareness.
I truly believe that maybe it wasn't a malicious thought & it just kind of spilled out ofhis mouth.
um But it stuck with me & I am forever scarred by it.
(05:37):
And that's just one story.
That's just one of like a million.
Yes!
Scarred.
I mean, you he said, well, that guy could probably date supermodels.
And you said you're no supermodel, but I'm not sure Cassie most guys want that supermodelanyway.
What society is telling us is that's the ideal feminine.
(05:57):
Ah, we want five foot 10 fake boobies.
Somehow she's 5'10", 105 pounds.
And you know, it was a double D.
I mean, this woman doesn't exist outside of a plastic surgeon's office.
And you know, most men I think are looking for someone who's cute & sweet & treats themright & gets along with them.
(06:18):
And
I just think it's really a bad look for this guy to sit in front of you.
And first of all, to comment on a woman's looks in any negative way, shape or form is badenough, but I'm, not sure a guy should compliment a woman or talk about her looks upfront
anyway, because it just makes him seem so shallow.
(06:40):
You're obviously a very pretty girl, a pretty woman.
You know, who wants to be a supermodel frankly, right?
So you are a type, you're going to be a lot of guys' type, and I'm sure you've got just asmany guys who sit in front of you & fawn over your looks.
And the first thing you think of is it's all this guy cares about.
You know, here I am.
(07:01):
I'm under here.
I'm intelligent.
I'm personable.
I may have the same values as you & you like don't even care.
Have you seen that pendulum swing the other way before?
Rhetorical question.
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that & I do agree with you.
(07:22):
But again, it just kind of goes back to that same like whenever you have theseinteractions with men as you know, a woman, it's so...I don't know off putting.
Off putting...it's just a really good way to say it because it's like who are...
Who's teaching these men?
(07:45):
to date.
I just, I don't understand.
I don't understand where they're...
Right, but not everybody unfortunately listens to this & they need to.
Not yet.
Give me time.
(08:05):
I would appreciate that.
yeah, that's just one that was actually relatively recent.
Great.
You know, it seems like everybody's lost their social chops nowadays.
I mean, going out there & being social in & of itself is a bother to a lot of people.
I mean, you've got AI girlfriends coming, guys are thinking, well, my goodness, the pornis so good.
(08:26):
And I've got an AI girlfriend.
Why go bother with someone who I actually have to pay for this date when I'm sitting infront of, why can't I just sit home & have this game come to me?
Why even consider someone else's needs in a potential relationship?
And you see that a lot actually when people do venture out in the real world, Cassie.
What they're starting to think is, Hey, what's in it for me?
(08:47):
I've got another human being in front of me, but here are my goals.
Here's my agenda with having a relationship someday.
And this person, you know, is going to have to agree to give me what I want.
That is like the de-evolution from that transactional relationship mindset we've seen forabout 10 to 15 years now, where people are getting together thinking, okay, this is a
business deal.
(09:07):
Alright, you want a baby, I want to have sex every other night at least, hopefully morethan that.
You're going to look good at my business functions, Christmas parties & make me look goodin front of the guys.
Yeah, well you're going to buy me a Mercedes-Benz because the Lord won't, you know.
And it just becomes a big business transaction.
The whole idea of connecting with someone, being married to your best friend.
(09:32):
as well as someone you're hot for.
People are like, I've met people, Cassie, who literally can't relate to that.
They're like, I don't understand what you're talking about.
But you want more guys to start thinking old school, don't you?
I see this coming.
Yeah, absolutely.
um "transactional" is the perfect word for what dates are like today.
(09:57):
And that's another thing that just drives me crazy.
I was raised by somebody, my father, he's actually a retired police officer now.
um Not that that's necessarily relevant, but uh he's a...
No, actually he wasn't.
He wasn't.
But he does say that, like, I have a very weird type of men.
(10:21):
So, I don't know, maybe that's telling you something.
Nonetheless...
kind who tells you you're no supermodel on the first date.
That's weird on another trajectory, isn't it?
Do tell, what's this weird type of guy you have?
don't tell him everything about the guys that I date, but the guys that I have broughtaround him, um he's definitely been like, is this what turns you on?
(10:48):
I don't see it.
um And I think that that's because, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.
It is your job as a dad.
Right.
Well, you know, um I think he sees that a big issue I've had with a lot of guys that I'vedated & this is something that he has said to me personally.
(11:13):
um He doesn't understand why these guys are so cheap & not even cheap, but also justfreaking lazy.
Gen Z, right?
This is the stereotype.
Everybody's DoorDashing their way through life.
(11:33):
The idea of having an adventure is foreign to these guys, let alone doing work & puttingthemselves in harm's way for some reason.
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that.
uh Guys today...I saw recently somebody said they're in their sassy era.
(11:54):
And I was like, that's a great way to put it because they want everything that women usedto get.
um But they also want a woman who still does traditional woman stuff, right?
Like they want us to clean.
They want us to do the dishes & raise babies.
(12:14):
& take care of the house, um but they don't show up whenever it comes time to paying thebills ah & going out there, doing yard work.
Oh my God, me & my dad literally built an entire room together.
And he was like, I'm amazed that you're out here doing this.
(12:36):
And I'm like, if I don't do it, nobody else is gonna do it, Dad.
It's me & you.
That's really an interesting take.
You're the second woman this week who has used the word "sassy"
in application to how men are acting nowadays, which is why I, you know, withheld eruptingin laughter, you know, because it just hit me...when it struck me when you said that, that
(13:05):
my goodness, there's a definite mental picture you get of a guy who's in his sassy & it'sa spoiled brat who lacks any semblance of natural masculinity & doesn't really care.
He thinks he's doing the right thing &
showing up to the world in the way he should in the way he's expected to.
Meanwhile, the women are going, uh, you, you know, yuck, right?
(13:29):
And they don't want anything to do with that guy, but it's like almost every guy has thatweird sense of entitlement.
Vis-a-vis a complete lack of self-awareness, you know, like we were talking about thinkingsomehow women are going to like this.
Meanwhile,
you know, they want you to cook & clean & make babies & be all conservative & stuff.
(13:51):
And they just want to sit on their couch & play video games &, know, hopefully work aremote job & have them send checks for sleeping in every morning.
And that's anti-masculine.
And the problem with that, Cassie, & I don't think I'm educating you here.
I'm just furthering the conversation as I promised we would pre-roll.
(14:12):
ah Is that I just think men think women don't want a masculine man anymore.
They've been kind of taught by the media to believe masculinity is toxic do better & doingbetter means neutering yourself Meanwhile, the women are stereotypically going around &
going where all the men go.
Where's this guy who can at least make me feel safe around him.
Like he's got this thing handled like he's got a plan not only for tonight's date but
(14:37):
for his life ahead.
I mean, what am I hitching my wagon to?
How are we going to walk through life together if this guy doesn't have a map?
Because if he thinks I'm going to come up with the map for the man/woman relationship, heis sorely mistaken because he's the man & I don't wanna man up in this relationship.
You know, you're probably perfectly content as gritty & as self reliant as you apparentlyare & knowledgeable & smart.
(15:00):
You know, you don't want to wear the pants.
You want a partner.
And these guys just aren't stepping up & showing up & they're showing up on dates, youknow, physically, but not showing up & showing out, you know, and they're thinking that
this neutered watered down version of their persona that has no masculine effect issomehow going to be attractive when masculinity is what attracts femininity.
(15:28):
You know what I'm saying?
Yes, absolutely.
I 100 % agree with you on all of the above.
And it is getting to the point where like, I'm so sick of men not showing up for what Ineed them to show up for that like, I'm just learning to do everything myself, like
(15:57):
picking up a drill, um you know, I don't even ask
my boyfriends or whoever to like check the oil in my car like I just take it to Walmartnow.
I do everything.
Everything.
And this is the case even when I'm in relationships.
I mow the lawn.
Like I've had to do that.
(16:19):
I've had to take on the role of the man as well & it's...
It's exactly like you said.
It's like, I want somebody who's a partner, not somebody that is another liability.
You're not my child.
All right, so let's go there.
You are obviously sitting in an environment that has a lot of male toys in it.
(16:45):
I think I see a Marshall amp in the background, but it looks like it could be some guns &,you know, a bass.
just see the headstock of the bass & some things behind you that are very masculine.
No guns.
OK, so I'm seeing something else way in the back there that resembles a gun pack.
(17:06):
Alright, so...
Not to throw the poor guy under the bus, but you're broadcasting right now, podcastingright now from his man cave.
And you told me yourself, uh, not in secret that this feels like a roommate relationship.
You two are firmly in what I would term "The Just Be Roommates Zone", which is aniteration of the just be friends zone, of course.
(17:32):
And you said you've talked to the guy about this & he just won't budge from it.
Can you elaborate what's going on here?
Because this is
something that transcends simply having the balls to ask a woman out & go out on thisfirst date.
um What's going on there?
And I want to preface that because I see you kind of saying, goodness, we're going to gothere.
I saw the, I saw your body language there.
(17:54):
You're going to have two kinds of guys who listened to the show.
You're going to have guys who are fans of the show listening to this show going, can Ihave her phone number?
I'll rescue her from that guy.
I'll show her what a real man is like.
And they would do that.
Okay.
Then you have, then you have,
guys are going to stumble on this show...
upon this show or they're going to go looking for this show because they don't like me.
(18:15):
They want my message to be quashed.
Why?
Because they're "Men Going Their Own Way".
They're angry at women.
think everything is women's fault.
Victimhood blame, blame, blame all the women.
And they're going to want to say to say to you something like, well, you know what?
If she wants this guy who's going to step up & be this perfect Ken doll & be all
(18:38):
all that & do all the paying & do all the work, well then she can just die alone.
But that's not what you're saying.
You're saying you're ready to be all woman for the right guy, but he's got to do his parttoo.
And most guys who understand how masculinity & femininity vibrate together in that goodway are all for that.
They've been looking for a chick like you, but what's up with all these guys out there whojust get upset & bitter when they hear a woman talk like you?
(19:06):
And how does that enter into this roommate conversation you've been having with yourcurrent beau?
Yeah, I went there.
it's definitely an interesting situationship.
That's probably the best way that I can, you know, say that with without being too mean.
(19:30):
Um...
You know, I think I speak for a lot of people who are in situationships whenever I saylike, whenever your life gets so intertwined because you've been with somebody for years,
it's hard to just leave.
It's hard to just pack up & go.
(19:50):
And that's kind of like where I'm at right now.
Like thankfully we do not have any kids.
We're not married, um but we do have animals & we have, you know, a schedule that we'vekind of like
come up with that's just very comfortable.
And I think that's kind of where, you know, I get stuck with it.
I'm like, it's just kind of comfortable at this point, even though I don't like it.
(20:14):
um
But yeah, it is very much so a roomy situation & I have had the conversation with him manytimes where I'm like, we are not in a relationship.
He works different hours than I do, so we hardly see each other, even though we livetogether, we hardly see each other.
(20:37):
He sleeps all day during the weekends & stuff & I'm a bit of an early bird.
um
And it just doesn't feel like we're partners.
It feels like we're roommates.
And we split the bills.
He makes more than I do, but it's rough.
(20:58):
It's rough.
It's literally like we're roommates.
Well, what exactly is missing?
Or do you not know?
It's his job to figure it out.
No, it's...
there's a lot missing, Scot.
There's a lot missing.
The intimacy, the...
(21:19):
Partnership, you know, like I said, like I'm the one who goes out & cuts the grass.
Like if I ask him to do that, he will throw like a little hissy fit, okay?
Mind you, he will do the dishes.
He will do some of the other, you know, girly household chores.
But like anytime I ask him to do like something manly & like he doesn't want to do it onlike my time schedule, like I get an attitude.
(21:50):
And you're willing to do your part in all this.
Yeah, I...
Well, what do you mean?
Like, my part?
in other words, whatever you find to be missing, you're willing to, you know, do your halfof the relationship's worth of the heavy lifting to get to the point where you want to be.
You just don't have a willing accomplice yet.
(22:14):
Correct.
Okay, that's fair enough.
I think a lot of guys, regardless of who we are, & this isn't something that's recent,that's been part of post-modernity & how men have been kind of counseled away, brainwashed
away frankly, from being masculine in the traditional sense, as if it's toxic.
That's changing again, by the way.
(22:36):
You know, we don't get too political around here, but I think the last election cycle, ¬ only the number of men, but...
the diversity of men who switched parties, uh it was a referendum on being told not to bea man anymore.
It's really what it was.
And when you saw Tim Walz up there being presented as a man's man & he couldn't load a gun& he thought a pick six was a legitimate football play, the guys just said, no, we're not
(23:02):
buying into it.
It isn't any sexism against Kamala Harris.
It's just, can I please be who I'm allowed to be?
Because if you're not going to appreciate my authenticity, then I'm just not voting foryou.
And maybe the options weren't the best in either direction, & they haven't been in anyelection cycle, in my opinion, since last century, frankly.
(23:24):
I don't know why these people position themselves to be president.
You know, you're looking at 18 of these, these people up there during the primaries & arelike, can I have a 19th option, please?
You can I go off the board?
Can I buy a vowel?
You know what I mean?
And yet women are still, you know, in many ways, very cynical about how men are.
(23:48):
And it means that...
And vice versa.
There's a lot that's happened with women, women trying to adopt the virtuous masculinerole by stripping men of all masculinity, telling them it's all toxic.
Then they hijack it.
You know, now we want to be the one to wear the pants.
We want to be the providers.
We want to be the protectors.
(24:09):
Unless it means going to war or dying or something, then, you know, screw that.
But it just shows you how superficial & how comfortable our entire...
Our entire culture has become obviously the more blessed you are...
I don't know this is obvious to everybody, but the more blessed you are, the morecomplaining you do.
If you're scrambling, if you're out there hustling, ain't no time for complaining.
(24:31):
But nowadays men & women want to complain against each other.
There's pressure on the birth rate.
There's pressure on marriage.
And you know, I'm sure you're sitting there going, I don't even want to marry this guy,even though we live together.
Well, that's, that's by design societally.
Men are always going to like their setup.
Okay.
That's primal.
I've got my girl, I've got my base, I got my man cave, I got my, my amp, I got my job.
(24:55):
& I'm not immune to this, you know, I could go trade in my pickup truck, but I've beendriving the same pickup truck for 14 years because by God, that's my pickup truck.
My wife can flip her car every two years & get something completely different for all Icare.
But I like my setup, my office.
You know, with the addition regularly of a, of more BMX trophies, thanks to my kids, um,it's pretty much the same.
(25:19):
have to force myself sometime to leave my comfort familiarity zone & go do somethingdifferent.
And now you're talking to a guy who travels all over the world & has a, a pretty fun job &loves adventure, but even I like my setup.
So once guys get nice & comfortable & they've got taken everything, everything care,everything's taken care of.
(25:42):
They don't want to rock that boat.
They don't want to, you know, kind of play brinksmanship with that just to, just for thesake of it.
But what gets left in the lurch is you, Cassie, because you have needs, you have a desireto do something different than what his setup has dictated.
(26:03):
And if you're not being heard, then you're not being connected with in that relationship.
Does that sum it up?
Yes, it really does.
I think you kind of really hit the nail on the head there.
um And really just that last part that it's like, they're comfortable & I'm not justtalking about him.
(26:25):
I mean, this is like every single long term relationship I've ever had.
It's that they're comfortable.
uh They don't really have to work for anything.
um And they I & I will say society has a lot to do with it
because they have been told, you know, that it's...
(26:46):
I don't know what the word even is.
It's bad to be a man & to, you know, hold the doors.
Well, you know, like even the most benign things like holding the door or like pumpingyour gas.
that, they've been told that like that's bad.
Like you're basically saying that like she can't do it herself.
(27:08):
It's like, honestly, I don't want to get out of my car.
I don't want to get my shoes wet.
Like sometimes I just want to sit there & be lazy.
Okay.
I wouldn't mind.
I would not mind if he got out of the car & pump my gas for me.
Yes, I can do it.
I know how to do it.
But even just holding the door for me or obviously the paying the bill whenever we go out,I felt like that should be expected.
(27:35):
um And here we are, society has been telling men & women alike that women are weak if mendo that & men are bad if they do that.
And it's just, it's like an entire...
I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, but a clusterfuck.
(27:59):
It's a clusterfuck, okay?
Okay, it's not okay, but the swearing is okay, but the fact that it is that is not okay.
Alright, so what are you gonna say to men who say, all right, well, you know, talked abouthim being lazy & then she just said she'd like to be lazy.
Let's assume
for a second, just for the sake of conversation, that your current boyfriend gets a braintransplant & a heart transplant, & he becomes this guy who's planning adventures & fun
(28:28):
spontaneous surprises, & he takes care of business, makes you feel safe.
How's that going to affect your response to him?
You're not just going to stay lazy & let him do all this stuff.
Obviously, there's a part of you who's just dying to come out & express herself.
What would that look like for the right guy?
Ooohh...that's a loaded question because I've never been in that situation before.
(28:53):
Well, what do you think?
What's the part of you that wants to come out & blossom & express yourself?
Obviously you're missing out on some feeling of authenticity here.
What would that look like?
Dream a little.
It's okay.
I understand habits can form, but you're a bit disgruntled.
So what would gruntled look like if this is what disgruntled looks like?
(29:14):
Scot, I'm gonna be honest with you & what I really want is somebody to...
be a partner in the same things that I want in life.
So if I was not disgruntled & I was gruntled, I think what would make me happiest is if wehad the same vision & somebody who wanted to share the same dream that I have, which it's
(29:39):
really dumb, but like, I just want to live on like a little farm & have like a couple ofanimals &, you know, not stress out about sharing the finances & stuff.
uh
So for me, it's just somebody...
do.
You two are perfect for each other.
I'm kidding.
(30:00):
I keep hearing women say that like that's why they are lesbian & I'm like maybe you're onto something because these guys just are not it.
in the least, but I like disgruntled is a weird word, isn't it?
It's one of those English words where you can have that prefix of dis in front of it or,um, but, not without it.
(30:22):
You know, gruntled isn't a word, but you can certainly be disgruntled just like you can beunraveled, but I've never heard the word raveled used by itself.
Have you?
I think I think I've heard raveled.
Maybe?
Like you've...
can be a rabble rouser, but that's with a B instead of a V.
(30:44):
Oh, hmm, maybe not.
Yeah, I don't know.
English is a very strange, strange language.
Just like men these days, they're strange.
rules.
Well, you know, I think men & women are both pretty easy to figure out.
Men want to be appreciated.
And actually men want to feel safe too.
They want to know that you're not going to cheat on them, that you're not going toembarrass them in front of their friends.
(31:07):
We're easy & a little bit different in the safety & security department.
We want to be able to trust you.
What happens is though men don't feel any need at all to be a provider & a protectoranymore.
And they've been told that's obsolete.
That's so 1950.
And indeed, if you do open a car door or walk on the outside of the curb or anythingthat's considered chivalrous, right?...
(31:32):
You're just being, you're just insulting women.
And that's not what it's ever been about.
You know, this overreaction, frankly, by feminists to try to
demonize anything a man would do, you know, that indicates his masculine nature.
Up to & including the point of them saying or proposing that masculinity & femininity in &of themselves are nothing more than social constructs designed to keep women down & terms
(32:03):
like the patriarchy & everything.
There's a lot of really well-meaning guys who are like, you know, I didn't do nothing tonobody.
I certainly don't want to be blamed for that.
And
As we all know, it's very easy to weaponize a term that would signal a certain certainperson's state of mind.
Like, you know, you're a misogynist, you're a patriarch, you're a racist, right?
(32:26):
You're a communist.
These extremist terms & what it does is only the good people who mean well fall into line& kowtow to that accusation & try to prove they're not.
If you go to David Duke in Louisiana & you go, you're a racist, he'll go, and?
cause he's not trying to hide he's a racist.
(32:48):
I haven't heard from that guy in years, but he's the first real racist who, who came tomind.
But if you're not a racist & you don't want to be a racist & someone accuses you to be,accuses you of being a racist, you'll do everything you can to acquit yourself of that
accusation.
So you have a lot of men out there who are being accused of being men & in an effort.
as twisted & sad as this sounds to acquit themselves from that, that rough accusation,they neuter themselves & try not to be anything male anymore.
(33:16):
And meanwhile, the women are like, okay, heterosexual female here.
Nothing's turning me on fellas.
Where are you at?
Right?
Meanwhile, you have a bunch of men who meet women & the women are starting to act morelike men & they're starting to resent men.
And then
perhaps reactively, which is anti-masculine in & of itself, men go, well, if you don'tlike men, we don't like you either.
(33:43):
And then basically everybody descends into something virtual instead of something realconnecting to each other.
It's very sad.
And I would say that, yes, men need to be the leaders here.
And the first guy who steps up to the plate, acts like a man, & presents himself to awoman as a man who can provide & protect.
And sometimes it's just being warm & light &
(34:05):
helping her laugh on a first date so she feels good being there.
Yeah, you pick up the check, right?
You open the car door for her.
She's going to go, wow, actually a real man.
But most men have gotten to the point where that feels like an insult to them to gothrough those motions because the assumption is going to be made that the woman is going
to give me nothing in return.
But that's not true.
(34:25):
I think it's fascinating that you're kind of at a loss for what that world would looklike.
It's almost like you're a dog chasing a car & what would happen if you caught the car?
It's like, wow, I haven't thought that far yet.
And I don't think that's an indictment upon you.
It's just, you kind of never been in that position yet.
So you're not sure how you'd react.
(34:46):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, you know, honestly, even just hearing you say that, it's like, I have had like acouple of guys, like not people that I'm on a date with, but like older guys that I was
just around, like open the car door for me.
And I'm just like, what the heck is that?
Like, is that normal?
(35:08):
Are they like trying to hit on me in some way?
I don't know.
Like, I don't even trust it.
anathema to society nowadays that you're like, okay Is this guy gonna try to swindle meinto joining his downline in Amway?
I mean, what's the hidden agenda here?
Does he just want to get in my pants?
That's why he's being nice to me.
It just there's there's no awareness of someone actually wanting to be genuinely male orgenuinely female simply because that's in their nature.
(35:39):
That's how they were raised.
And they know it works.
Damn it, it works.
All the guys who aren't being the guy you're, you're suggesting they be, or they'refeeling a little bitter, or they're angry at you for even suggesting it, 'cause you're
just going to use me & take all my money anyway, & be a gold digger...
More for me.
More for me.
(35:59):
And I'm, really sad you're not finding the kind of guys you want to find out there & thatyou've had this train of bad dates & you're in "The Just Be Roommates Zone".
I mean, it's awful, but you are not alone.
And if there's any mic drop to this particular episode, Cassie, it's got to be, look guys,there's a world of opportunity out there.
(36:19):
I mean, listen to her, look at her.
Go find you women who, who you resonate with, who you're going to connect with.
They're out there.
They're as afraid to admit they're who they are as you're afraid to show who you are as aman.
But if you're just honest about it, I think
the feminine world would rise up to meet that energy.
(36:42):
And let me suggest something, Cassie.
I'm not gonna hold it against you, the whole dog chasing the car thing.
And I know that's a rough analogy & you don't deserve it.
Because I would guess that if a guy started showing up & being a man, you'd wanna do nicethings for him.
(37:02):
You'd say, you you've been so sweet.
You've taken me out on five dates & you treat me so nice.
Now it's my turn.
I'm going to cook you dinner or I'm going to bake you cookies.
And there's women out there rolling their eyes & going, what are you going to say next?
Make me a sandwich?
But a woman would like you, like you would go, well, I make a hell of a sandwich.
Get out of here with that.
Right?
I make a hell of a sandwich & I'm a guy.
(37:24):
You know, if my wife hears me doing this podcast & comes in & brings me a cup of teagoing, man, that was a great show.
I was overhearing it.
I would feel taken care of.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm going to go out,
bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, be the man, take a bullet for this family.
But the woman in my life will gladly recharge my batteries as a warrior, whether that'semotionally...
(37:49):
My wife, like you has a very cute, mellifluous voice.
I could listen to my wife read the phone book too.
That's very important to me.
I could, you know, my wife just talking to me, being present, smelling nice, getting hernails done, looking cute.
Obviously,
not to go down this rabbit hole, but sexually women are very pleasing to men.
(38:13):
Women are pleasure machines.
And when a woman's very proud of that, & a man takes great pride in that, ah that isindeed a wonderful woman to come home to.
It doesn't take much from either side, really.
It just takes effort.
It takes a desire to connect.
And a simple realization that men & women are different & we're supposed to be, & this isvery important & I want to hear your opinion on this.
(38:41):
We're, we're not supposed to be enemies.
We're not supposed to be adversaries.
It's not supposed to be he said/she said, us versus them.
We're supposed to be in partnership.
That's how we're physically & emotional emotionally, you know, designed.
So what, how do you think we get back to that?
(39:01):
What's your opinion on everything?
I just said?
Well, let me just...
preface.
not impressed look.
But I think it was the I'm thinking look more than anything.
OK.
Well, I don't know if I have, you know...
(39:23):
like I said, let me just preface this & say that like.
I feel like I didn't really answer your previous question on like if somebody you know waslistening to this & they were like oh she's she just wants to be lazy it's like that I've
never been like that I could never be like that & um you know even with dating guys thatdon't match my energy it doesn't make me a different person um I'm still me.
(39:51):
I'm still you know the carer.
I my mom was actually a nurse so I'm very
motherly with things.
So that, you know, even though the guys don't match my energy, that has never changed whoI was.
It's just made me more like aware of what I don't want in a partner.
(40:13):
And yeah, it just...
Right, yeah, it just makes me more aware.
And as I get older & I get to the age where maybe I wanna have kids, maybe I don't, it'slike, I need to find somebody who matches my energy but has that masculine side um because
(40:37):
it's getting hard to do everything.
I just, I think men & women can,
work together to bring back that energy.
I just think that it takes communication & we've been told that communication isconfrontation & that that's bad.
(41:00):
And I just think it's a society problem in general.
Um, I don't know what that looks like as far as how we fix it.
I think someone's gonna have to risk being authentically masculine & feminine again, & Ithink honestly it's incumbent upon us as men to lead.
I'm not afraid to admit that.
(41:21):
But it leaves all you ladies in the lurch until men start showing up again.
Facts.
Hashtag facts, right?
I can't help but wonder if, you all the plastic in our atmosphere has something to do withthe decline of masculinity.
Like, I don't want to get into all that, but...
(41:42):
you bring a good point.
And that's in the short answer is environmental factors, social factors, dietary factors,all of that...
Political factors, socio-political factors, all of it enters into it.
And it's all basically, you know, to use the C word conspiring to feminize us & to keepmen out of their masculine power.
(42:07):
I mean,
you're onto something there is all I'm saying.
I think this has been a fantastic conversation.
You're just adorable.
I hope you patch things up & get out of "The Just Be Roommates Zone" with your guy becauseI'm sure he's a good dude or you wouldn't be there.
And you start, you know, living the dream together & go have an adventure.
And what I want to do is I want to point these guys to what is your Instagram...
(42:30):
site, your Instagram account &
I can do that very quickly & easily by having these guys go tomountaintoppodcast.com/cassie C-A-S-S-I-E, & it'll point you to her Instagram.
That's where she wanted to send you guys.
(42:51):
Give her a like, see what she's up to.
uh Cassie Leigh, you've been wonderful.
Thank you for your insights.
I am going to admit something to you.
A lot of times I have people who are somewhat notable &...
have lots of alphabet soup behind their names come on the show & flex their knowledge &they've written books & been New York Times bestsellers.
(43:14):
But you know what my number one request is?
It's just, can you please just give me the normal kind of woman we'd actually like to date& get her opinion on things?
Because they tell me, I know you can coax it out of her.
Ask her all the questions that I would never ask her on a first date because it justwouldn't be first date conversation.
I think that's exactly what we did here today.
(43:34):
I'm pretty pumped.
It was pretty exciting.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you so much for having me, Scot, & thank you so much for letting me be vulnerable ina safe space.
um It was a pleasure.
way.
Well, do you have any, um, final rah rah speech or exhortations or, uh, promises of a jobwell done or anything like that you want to give these guys before we sign off?
(44:02):
Any final message?
um I just want to say I really hope that if people were listening to this & um they gotanything from it, please let me know.
I would absolutely love to share whatever they have to say.
And I'm happy to talk with anybody that needs some advice.
(44:24):
I'm all for promoting masculinity in men.
um So please feel free to also see me as a safe space for that.
Fantastic.
Well, you did good.
Good show.
Thank you so much, Scot.
Really appreciate you.
I appreciate you too.
Thank you for, uh, thank you for getting a hold of me &, requesting to be on the show.
(44:47):
This has been fantastic.
And guys, if you have not been to mountaintoppodcast.com lately, you can get on mycalendar, talk to me for 25, 30 minutes about what's on your mind.
Not only with this show, what you're thinking of the video format, but also, uh, gettingyour life together so that you are representing when you go out & meet women & you're
looking for women who represent femininity right back at you.
(45:10):
Hopefully this show has energized some of you guys out there who were starting to
a little cynical & perhaps maybe even worried that women don't exist anymore the way you'dlike them to.
I think a lot of women like Cassie out there are just, you know, they're afraid of gettingcanceled or something still if they talk like this.
But you know, just like she said, this is the safe place for that.
She's nodding her head over there.
Look at that.
(45:31):
And that to me is what it's all about.
Men & women being together.
If you guys want to put a plan together to um
put all this in action through coaching.
I'm your Huckleberry.
I got your back.
We can talk about that too.
Otherwise you can go to mountstotpodcast.com, download my book, Sticking Points Solved.
Also get show notes & pictures for all of our shows & visit our three longtime sponsors,Jocko Willinks Company, Origen in Maine, the Hero Soap Company,
(45:58):
& also The Keyport.
10 % off when you use mountaintop.
I'm sorry, when you use mountain10 as your coupon code, every time you buy something fromour sponsors, all of that & so much more is always there for you at
mountaintoppodcast.com.
And until I talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X & Y communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
(46:21):
Be good out there.
How's it going gentlemen?
This is your main man Scot McKay coming at you again with another episode of The MountainTop Podcast from X & Y Communications.
I am your host Scot McKay & you can find me at Scot McKay on YouTube, on Tik Tok on TruthSocial & on X.
And if you want to find me on Instagram, you're going to need to put a real in front ofthe Scot McKay because it's at real Scot McKay.
(00:26):
I'm on threads too, but stay off it.
It's terrible.
It's like,
just bunch of people complaining, which is pretty much the opposite mindset of our show.
So just don't go there.
Find me on X or come join the Mountain Top Summit Facebook group is what you really shoulddo.
The website as always is just like you see at the top of this.
If you're watching the video Mountaintoppodcast.com, that's where all the goodies are.
(00:51):
And speaking of which, I have a new friend of mine, first time guest, & she wrote mevehemently wanting to express her
Multitude of opinions on how men are nowadays what women are really looking for & if Iknow you guys I think you're going to like what you're about to hear uh Cassie Leigh is my
(01:12):
guest.
She's from Tampa, Florida She's a journal journalist & editor & an author Welcome Cassie.
Welcome to the show
Hi Scot, thank you so much for having me on here, following up with what you said about,you know, having some very strong opinions.
I definitely do.
(01:34):
And I can't wait to dive right into them.
Well, I think based on how mellifluous your voice is & your general appearance, I thinkmost guys are ready to just listen to you read the phone book.
It won't matter.
But I'm going to respect your intelligence enough to fully realize that you've got a lotto offer here.
What made you really passionate about this topic and go ahead & speak up, speak loudly,let these guys hear you & don't be ashamed of it because I have a feeling a lot of guys
(02:05):
are going to be ready for what you have to say.
So let the fur fly, Cassie have at it.
Okay, well first & foremost, let me just say.
It is awful being a traditional values type of lady in the world of dating in Americatoday.
(02:27):
I mean, I don't know if this is a problem in Europe.
I don't know if this is a problem in Asia, but in America, oh my goodness, I have had theworst experiences um with guys.
um And I think...
You know, one thing that really gets me is that I've been on tons of dates & those haveonly turned into a few actual relationships.
(02:57):
And it's just because like, it's usually like the first date & then I'm like, no, this isnot going to work.
And I'll give you an example.
Okay.
I went on a date with a guy once &
We had just been talking, like we had like mutual connections um as far as like what wedid in the industry.
(03:20):
So he had mentioned something about like, you went out with so-and-so at this one point,what happened to that?
And I mentioned, I was like, well, you know, that's, that's not really like something thatI wanted to pursue.
And then he like slipped in this comment that like, oh, well that guy could have datedlike supermodels.
And I was like,
(03:41):
From that point on I was like that was so mean like okay.
I know that I'm not I'm not a supermodel.
I am not you know seven foot tall.
I'm not super skinny, but like come on like we're on a date together like I don't know...
it still sits with me, & I'm still upset by that
(04:04):
Well, not like most of us as men want to go date the female version of Victor Wembanyamaor like Britney Griner or some other assorted seven foot tall female human being.
I would guess that that guy just simply lacked self-awareness on a couple of fronts.
You know, lacking self-awareness is not exactly confidence inspiring to women because youwant a man who can provide & protect.
(04:27):
And that's what really turns women on at the primal level.
You're not going to disagree with me because no woman ever has.
You're already nodding your head.
So here he comes.
He, first of all, wants to talk about your last boyfriend who he happens to know as anacquaintance.
Awkward.
Okay.
First of all, second of all, who cares about the last guy?
He's in the rear view mirror.
(04:47):
Now you're sitting in front of him.
What is there to talk about?
Am I onto something?
Yeah, um & well
I am just at a loss for words because like I said, I'm still mad about it & it stillreally hurts & I still don't really understand why somebody would think that that was okay
(05:12):
to say.
But I like your take on it that he just lacked self-awareness.
I truly believe that maybe it wasn't a malicious thought & it just kind of spilled out ofhis mouth.
um But it stuck with me & I am forever scarred by it.
(05:37):
And that's just one story.
That's just one of like a million.
Yes!
Scarred.
I mean, you he said, well, that guy could probably date supermodels.
And you said you're no supermodel, but I'm not sure Cassie most guys want that supermodelanyway.
What society is telling us is that's the ideal feminine.
(05:57):
Ah, we want five foot 10 fake boobies.
Somehow she's 5'10", 105 pounds.
And you know, it was a double D.
I mean, this woman doesn't exist outside of a plastic surgeon's office.
And you know, most men I think are looking for someone who's cute & sweet & treats themright & gets along with them.
(06:18):
And
I just think it's really a bad look for this guy to sit in front of you.
And first of all, to comment on a woman's looks in any negative way, shape or form is badenough, but I'm, not sure a guy should compliment a woman or talk about her looks upfront
anyway, because it just makes him seem so shallow.
(06:40):
You're obviously a very pretty girl, a pretty woman.
You know, who wants to be a supermodel frankly, right?
So you are a type, you're going to be a lot of guys' type, and I'm sure you've got just asmany guys who sit in front of you & fawn over your looks.
And the first thing you think of is it's all this guy cares about.
You know, here I am.
(07:01):
I'm under here.
I'm intelligent.
I'm personable.
I may have the same values as you & you like don't even care.
Have you seen that pendulum swing the other way before?
Rhetorical question.
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that & I do agree with you.
(07:22):
But again, it just kind of goes back to that same like whenever you have theseinteractions with men as you know, a woman, it's so...I don't know off putting.
Off putting...it's just a really good way to say it because it's like who are...
Who's teaching these men?
(07:45):
to date.
I just, I don't understand.
I don't understand where they're...
Right, but not everybody unfortunately listens to this & they need to.
Not yet.
Give me time.
(08:05):
I would appreciate that.
yeah, that's just one that was actually relatively recent.
Great.
You know, it seems like everybody's lost their social chops nowadays.
I mean, going out there & being social in & of itself is a bother to a lot of people.
I mean, you've got AI girlfriends coming, guys are thinking, well, my goodness, the pornis so good.
(08:26):
And I've got an AI girlfriend.
Why go bother with someone who I actually have to pay for this date when I'm sitting infront of, why can't I just sit home & have this game come to me?
Why even consider someone else's needs in a potential relationship?
And you see that a lot actually when people do venture out in the real world, Cassie.
What they're starting to think is, Hey, what's in it for me?
(08:47):
I've got another human being in front of me, but here are my goals.
Here's my agenda with having a relationship someday.
And this person, you know, is going to have to agree to give me what I want.
That is like the de-evolution from that transactional relationship mindset we've seen forabout 10 to 15 years now, where people are getting together thinking, okay, this is a
business deal.
(09:07):
Alright, you want a baby, I want to have sex every other night at least, hopefully morethan that.
You're going to look good at my business functions, Christmas parties & make me look goodin front of the guys.
Yeah, well you're going to buy me a Mercedes-Benz because the Lord won't, you know.
And it just becomes a big business transaction.
The whole idea of connecting with someone, being married to your best friend.
(09:32):
as well as someone you're hot for.
People are like, I've met people, Cassie, who literally can't relate to that.
They're like, I don't understand what you're talking about.
But you want more guys to start thinking old school, don't you?
I see this coming.
Yeah, absolutely.
um "transactional" is the perfect word for what dates are like today.
(09:57):
And that's another thing that just drives me crazy.
I was raised by somebody, my father, he's actually a retired police officer now.
um Not that that's necessarily relevant, but uh he's a...
No, actually he wasn't.
He wasn't.
But he does say that, like, I have a very weird type of men.
(10:21):
So, I don't know, maybe that's telling you something.
Nonetheless...
kind who tells you you're no supermodel on the first date.
That's weird on another trajectory, isn't it?
Do tell, what's this weird type of guy you have?
don't tell him everything about the guys that I date, but the guys that I have broughtaround him, um he's definitely been like, is this what turns you on?
(10:48):
I don't see it.
um And I think that that's because, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.
It is your job as a dad.
Right.
Well, you know, um I think he sees that a big issue I've had with a lot of guys that I'vedated & this is something that he has said to me personally.
(11:13):
um He doesn't understand why these guys are so cheap & not even cheap, but also justfreaking lazy.
Gen Z, right?
This is the stereotype.
Everybody's DoorDashing their way through life.
(11:33):
The idea of having an adventure is foreign to these guys, let alone doing work & puttingthemselves in harm's way for some reason.
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that.
uh Guys today...I saw recently somebody said they're in their sassy era.
(11:54):
And I was like, that's a great way to put it because they want everything that women usedto get.
um But they also want a woman who still does traditional woman stuff, right?
Like they want us to clean.
They want us to do the dishes & raise babies.
(12:14):
& take care of the house, um but they don't show up whenever it comes time to paying thebills ah & going out there, doing yard work.
Oh my God, me & my dad literally built an entire room together.
And he was like, I'm amazed that you're out here doing this.
(12:36):
And I'm like, if I don't do it, nobody else is gonna do it, Dad.
It's me & you.
That's really an interesting take.
You're the second woman this week who has used the word "sassy"
in application to how men are acting nowadays, which is why I, you know, withheld eruptingin laughter, you know, because it just hit me...when it struck me when you said that, that
(13:05):
my goodness, there's a definite mental picture you get of a guy who's in his sassy & it'sa spoiled brat who lacks any semblance of natural masculinity & doesn't really care.
He thinks he's doing the right thing &
showing up to the world in the way he should in the way he's expected to.
Meanwhile, the women are going, uh, you, you know, yuck, right?
(13:29):
And they don't want anything to do with that guy, but it's like almost every guy has thatweird sense of entitlement.
Vis-a-vis a complete lack of self-awareness, you know, like we were talking about thinkingsomehow women are going to like this.
Meanwhile,
you know, they want you to cook & clean & make babies & be all conservative & stuff.
(13:51):
And they just want to sit on their couch & play video games &, know, hopefully work aremote job & have them send checks for sleeping in every morning.
And that's anti-masculine.
And the problem with that, Cassie, & I don't think I'm educating you here.
I'm just furthering the conversation as I promised we would pre-roll.
(14:12):
ah Is that I just think men think women don't want a masculine man anymore.
They've been kind of taught by the media to believe masculinity is toxic do better & doingbetter means neutering yourself Meanwhile, the women are stereotypically going around &
going where all the men go.
Where's this guy who can at least make me feel safe around him.
Like he's got this thing handled like he's got a plan not only for tonight's date but
(14:37):
for his life ahead.
I mean, what am I hitching my wagon to?
How are we going to walk through life together if this guy doesn't have a map?
Because if he thinks I'm going to come up with the map for the man/woman relationship, heis sorely mistaken because he's the man & I don't wanna man up in this relationship.
You know, you're probably perfectly content as gritty & as self reliant as you apparentlyare & knowledgeable & smart.
(15:00):
You know, you don't want to wear the pants.
You want a partner.
And these guys just aren't stepping up & showing up & they're showing up on dates, youknow, physically, but not showing up & showing out, you know, and they're thinking that
this neutered watered down version of their persona that has no masculine effect issomehow going to be attractive when masculinity is what attracts femininity.
(15:28):
You know what I'm saying?
Yes, absolutely.
I 100 % agree with you on all of the above.
And it is getting to the point where like, I'm so sick of men not showing up for what Ineed them to show up for that like, I'm just learning to do everything myself, like
(15:57):
picking up a drill, um you know, I don't even ask
my boyfriends or whoever to like check the oil in my car like I just take it to Walmartnow.
I do everything.
Everything.
And this is the case even when I'm in relationships.
I mow the lawn.
Like I've had to do that.
(16:19):
I've had to take on the role of the man as well & it's...
It's exactly like you said.
It's like, I want somebody who's a partner, not somebody that is another liability.
You're not my child.
All right, so let's go there.
You are obviously sitting in an environment that has a lot of male toys in it.
(16:45):
I think I see a Marshall amp in the background, but it looks like it could be some guns &,you know, a bass.
just see the headstock of the bass & some things behind you that are very masculine.
No guns.
OK, so I'm seeing something else way in the back there that resembles a gun pack.
(17:06):
Alright, so...
Not to throw the poor guy under the bus, but you're broadcasting right now, podcastingright now from his man cave.
And you told me yourself, uh, not in secret that this feels like a roommate relationship.
You two are firmly in what I would term "The Just Be Roommates Zone", which is aniteration of the just be friends zone, of course.
(17:32):
And you said you've talked to the guy about this & he just won't budge from it.
Can you elaborate what's going on here?
Because this is
something that transcends simply having the balls to ask a woman out & go out on thisfirst date.
um What's going on there?
And I want to preface that because I see you kind of saying, goodness, we're going to gothere.
I saw the, I saw your body language there.
(17:54):
You're going to have two kinds of guys who listened to the show.
You're going to have guys who are fans of the show listening to this show going, can Ihave her phone number?
I'll rescue her from that guy.
I'll show her what a real man is like.
And they would do that.
Okay.
Then you have, then you have,
guys are going to stumble on this show...
upon this show or they're going to go looking for this show because they don't like me.
(18:15):
They want my message to be quashed.
Why?
Because they're "Men Going Their Own Way".
They're angry at women.
think everything is women's fault.
Victimhood blame, blame, blame all the women.
And they're going to want to say to say to you something like, well, you know what?
If she wants this guy who's going to step up & be this perfect Ken doll & be all
(18:38):
all that & do all the paying & do all the work, well then she can just die alone.
But that's not what you're saying.
You're saying you're ready to be all woman for the right guy, but he's got to do his parttoo.
And most guys who understand how masculinity & femininity vibrate together in that goodway are all for that.
They've been looking for a chick like you, but what's up with all these guys out there whojust get upset & bitter when they hear a woman talk like you?
(19:06):
And how does that enter into this roommate conversation you've been having with yourcurrent beau?
Yeah, I went there.
it's definitely an interesting situationship.
That's probably the best way that I can, you know, say that with without being too mean.
(19:30):
Um...
You know, I think I speak for a lot of people who are in situationships whenever I saylike, whenever your life gets so intertwined because you've been with somebody for years,
it's hard to just leave.
It's hard to just pack up & go.
(19:50):
And that's kind of like where I'm at right now.
Like thankfully we do not have any kids.
We're not married, um but we do have animals & we have, you know, a schedule that we'vekind of like
come up with that's just very comfortable.
And I think that's kind of where, you know, I get stuck with it.
I'm like, it's just kind of comfortable at this point, even though I don't like it.
(20:14):
um
But yeah, it is very much so a roomy situation & I have had the conversation with him manytimes where I'm like, we are not in a relationship.
He works different hours than I do, so we hardly see each other, even though we livetogether, we hardly see each other.
(20:37):
He sleeps all day during the weekends & stuff & I'm a bit of an early bird.
um
And it just doesn't feel like we're partners.
It feels like we're roommates.
And we split the bills.
He makes more than I do, but it's rough.
(20:58):
It's rough.
It's literally like we're roommates.
Well, what exactly is missing?
Or do you not know?
It's his job to figure it out.
No, it's...
there's a lot missing, Scot.
There's a lot missing.
The intimacy, the...
(21:19):
Partnership, you know, like I said, like I'm the one who goes out & cuts the grass.
Like if I ask him to do that, he will throw like a little hissy fit, okay?
Mind you, he will do the dishes.
He will do some of the other, you know, girly household chores.
But like anytime I ask him to do like something manly & like he doesn't want to do it onlike my time schedule, like I get an attitude.
(21:50):
And you're willing to do your part in all this.
Yeah, I...
Well, what do you mean?
Like, my part?
in other words, whatever you find to be missing, you're willing to, you know, do your halfof the relationship's worth of the heavy lifting to get to the point where you want to be.
You just don't have a willing accomplice yet.
(22:14):
Correct.
Okay, that's fair enough.
I think a lot of guys, regardless of who we are, & this isn't something that's recent,that's been part of post-modernity & how men have been kind of counseled away, brainwashed
away frankly, from being masculine in the traditional sense, as if it's toxic.
That's changing again, by the way.
(22:36):
You know, we don't get too political around here, but I think the last election cycle, ¬ only the number of men, but...
the diversity of men who switched parties, uh it was a referendum on being told not to bea man anymore.
It's really what it was.
And when you saw Tim Walz up there being presented as a man's man & he couldn't load a gun& he thought a pick six was a legitimate football play, the guys just said, no, we're not
(23:02):
buying into it.
It isn't any sexism against Kamala Harris.
It's just, can I please be who I'm allowed to be?
Because if you're not going to appreciate my authenticity, then I'm just not voting foryou.
And maybe the options weren't the best in either direction, & they haven't been in anyelection cycle, in my opinion, since last century, frankly.
(23:24):
I don't know why these people position themselves to be president.
You know, you're looking at 18 of these, these people up there during the primaries & arelike, can I have a 19th option, please?
You can I go off the board?
Can I buy a vowel?
You know what I mean?
And yet women are still, you know, in many ways, very cynical about how men are.
(23:48):
And it means that...
And vice versa.
There's a lot that's happened with women, women trying to adopt the virtuous masculinerole by stripping men of all masculinity, telling them it's all toxic.
Then they hijack it.
You know, now we want to be the one to wear the pants.
We want to be the providers.
We want to be the protectors.
(24:09):
Unless it means going to war or dying or something, then, you know, screw that.
But it just shows you how superficial & how comfortable our entire...
Our entire culture has become obviously the more blessed you are...
I don't know this is obvious to everybody, but the more blessed you are, the morecomplaining you do.
If you're scrambling, if you're out there hustling, ain't no time for complaining.
(24:31):
But nowadays men & women want to complain against each other.
There's pressure on the birth rate.
There's pressure on marriage.
And you know, I'm sure you're sitting there going, I don't even want to marry this guy,even though we live together.
Well, that's, that's by design societally.
Men are always going to like their setup.
Okay.
That's primal.
I've got my girl, I've got my base, I got my man cave, I got my, my amp, I got my job.
(24:55):
& I'm not immune to this, you know, I could go trade in my pickup truck, but I've beendriving the same pickup truck for 14 years because by God, that's my pickup truck.
My wife can flip her car every two years & get something completely different for all Icare.
But I like my setup, my office.
You know, with the addition regularly of a, of more BMX trophies, thanks to my kids, um,it's pretty much the same.
(25:19):
have to force myself sometime to leave my comfort familiarity zone & go do somethingdifferent.
And now you're talking to a guy who travels all over the world & has a, a pretty fun job &loves adventure, but even I like my setup.
So once guys get nice & comfortable & they've got taken everything, everything care,everything's taken care of.
(25:42):
They don't want to rock that boat.
They don't want to, you know, kind of play brinksmanship with that just to, just for thesake of it.
But what gets left in the lurch is you, Cassie, because you have needs, you have a desireto do something different than what his setup has dictated.
(26:03):
And if you're not being heard, then you're not being connected with in that relationship.
Does that sum it up?
Yes, it really does.
I think you kind of really hit the nail on the head there.
um And really just that last part that it's like, they're comfortable & I'm not justtalking about him.
(26:25):
I mean, this is like every single long term relationship I've ever had.
It's that they're comfortable.
uh They don't really have to work for anything.
um And they I & I will say society has a lot to do with it
because they have been told, you know, that it's...
(26:46):
I don't know what the word even is.
It's bad to be a man & to, you know, hold the doors.
Well, you know, like even the most benign things like holding the door or like pumpingyour gas.
that, they've been told that like that's bad.
Like you're basically saying that like she can't do it herself.
(27:08):
It's like, honestly, I don't want to get out of my car.
I don't want to get my shoes wet.
Like sometimes I just want to sit there & be lazy.
Okay.
I wouldn't mind.
I would not mind if he got out of the car & pump my gas for me.
Yes, I can do it.
I know how to do it.
But even just holding the door for me or obviously the paying the bill whenever we go out,I felt like that should be expected.
(27:35):
um And here we are, society has been telling men & women alike that women are weak if mendo that & men are bad if they do that.
And it's just, it's like an entire...
I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, but a clusterfuck.
(27:59):
It's a clusterfuck, okay?
Okay, it's not okay, but the swearing is okay, but the fact that it is that is not okay.
Alright, so what are you gonna say to men who say, all right, well, you know, talked abouthim being lazy & then she just said she'd like to be lazy.
Let's assume
for a second, just for the sake of conversation, that your current boyfriend gets a braintransplant & a heart transplant, & he becomes this guy who's planning adventures & fun
(28:28):
spontaneous surprises, & he takes care of business, makes you feel safe.
How's that going to affect your response to him?
You're not just going to stay lazy & let him do all this stuff.
Obviously, there's a part of you who's just dying to come out & express herself.
What would that look like for the right guy?
Ooohh...that's a loaded question because I've never been in that situation before.
(28:53):
Well, what do you think?
What's the part of you that wants to come out & blossom & express yourself?
Obviously you're missing out on some feeling of authenticity here.
What would that look like?
Dream a little.
It's okay.
I understand habits can form, but you're a bit disgruntled.
So what would gruntled look like if this is what disgruntled looks like?
(29:14):
Scot, I'm gonna be honest with you & what I really want is somebody to...
be a partner in the same things that I want in life.
So if I was not disgruntled & I was gruntled, I think what would make me happiest is if wehad the same vision & somebody who wanted to share the same dream that I have, which it's
(29:39):
really dumb, but like, I just want to live on like a little farm & have like a couple ofanimals &, you know, not stress out about sharing the finances & stuff.
uh
So for me, it's just somebody...
do.
You two are perfect for each other.
I'm kidding.
(30:00):
I keep hearing women say that like that's why they are lesbian & I'm like maybe you're onto something because these guys just are not it.
in the least, but I like disgruntled is a weird word, isn't it?
It's one of those English words where you can have that prefix of dis in front of it or,um, but, not without it.
(30:22):
You know, gruntled isn't a word, but you can certainly be disgruntled just like you can beunraveled, but I've never heard the word raveled used by itself.
Have you?
I think I think I've heard raveled.
Maybe?
Like you've...
can be a rabble rouser, but that's with a B instead of a V.
(30:44):
Oh, hmm, maybe not.
Yeah, I don't know.
English is a very strange, strange language.
Just like men these days, they're strange.
rules.
Well, you know, I think men & women are both pretty easy to figure out.
Men want to be appreciated.
And actually men want to feel safe too.
They want to know that you're not going to cheat on them, that you're not going toembarrass them in front of their friends.
(31:07):
We're easy & a little bit different in the safety & security department.
We want to be able to trust you.
What happens is though men don't feel any need at all to be a provider & a protectoranymore.
And they've been told that's obsolete.
That's so 1950.
And indeed, if you do open a car door or walk on the outside of the curb or anythingthat's considered chivalrous, right?...
(31:32):
You're just being, you're just insulting women.
And that's not what it's ever been about.
You know, this overreaction, frankly, by feminists to try to
demonize anything a man would do, you know, that indicates his masculine nature.
Up to & including the point of them saying or proposing that masculinity & femininity in &of themselves are nothing more than social constructs designed to keep women down & terms
(32:03):
like the patriarchy & everything.
There's a lot of really well-meaning guys who are like, you know, I didn't do nothing tonobody.
I certainly don't want to be blamed for that.
And
As we all know, it's very easy to weaponize a term that would signal a certain certainperson's state of mind.
Like, you know, you're a misogynist, you're a patriarch, you're a racist, right?
(32:26):
You're a communist.
These extremist terms & what it does is only the good people who mean well fall into line& kowtow to that accusation & try to prove they're not.
If you go to David Duke in Louisiana & you go, you're a racist, he'll go, and?
cause he's not trying to hide he's a racist.
(32:48):
I haven't heard from that guy in years, but he's the first real racist who, who came tomind.
But if you're not a racist & you don't want to be a racist & someone accuses you to be,accuses you of being a racist, you'll do everything you can to acquit yourself of that
accusation.
So you have a lot of men out there who are being accused of being men & in an effort.
as twisted & sad as this sounds to acquit themselves from that, that rough accusation,they neuter themselves & try not to be anything male anymore.
(33:16):
And meanwhile, the women are like, okay, heterosexual female here.
Nothing's turning me on fellas.
Where are you at?
Right?
Meanwhile, you have a bunch of men who meet women & the women are starting to act morelike men & they're starting to resent men.
And then
perhaps reactively, which is anti-masculine in & of itself, men go, well, if you don'tlike men, we don't like you either.
(33:43):
And then basically everybody descends into something virtual instead of something realconnecting to each other.
It's very sad.
And I would say that, yes, men need to be the leaders here.
And the first guy who steps up to the plate, acts like a man, & presents himself to awoman as a man who can provide & protect.
And sometimes it's just being warm & light &
(34:05):
helping her laugh on a first date so she feels good being there.
Yeah, you pick up the check, right?
You open the car door for her.
She's going to go, wow, actually a real man.
But most men have gotten to the point where that feels like an insult to them to gothrough those motions because the assumption is going to be made that the woman is going
to give me nothing in return.
But that's not true.
(34:25):
I think it's fascinating that you're kind of at a loss for what that world would looklike.
It's almost like you're a dog chasing a car & what would happen if you caught the car?
It's like, wow, I haven't thought that far yet.
And I don't think that's an indictment upon you.
It's just, you kind of never been in that position yet.
So you're not sure how you'd react.
(34:46):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, you know, honestly, even just hearing you say that, it's like, I have had like acouple of guys, like not people that I'm on a date with, but like older guys that I was
just around, like open the car door for me.
And I'm just like, what the heck is that?
Like, is that normal?
(35:08):
Are they like trying to hit on me in some way?
I don't know.
Like, I don't even trust it.
anathema to society nowadays that you're like, okay Is this guy gonna try to swindle meinto joining his downline in Amway?
I mean, what's the hidden agenda here?
Does he just want to get in my pants?
That's why he's being nice to me.
It just there's there's no awareness of someone actually wanting to be genuinely male orgenuinely female simply because that's in their nature.
(35:39):
That's how they were raised.
And they know it works.
Damn it, it works.
All the guys who aren't being the guy you're, you're suggesting they be, or they'refeeling a little bitter, or they're angry at you for even suggesting it, 'cause you're
just going to use me & take all my money anyway, & be a gold digger...
More for me.
More for me.
(35:59):
And I'm, really sad you're not finding the kind of guys you want to find out there & thatyou've had this train of bad dates & you're in "The Just Be Roommates Zone".
I mean, it's awful, but you are not alone.
And if there's any mic drop to this particular episode, Cassie, it's got to be, look guys,there's a world of opportunity out there.
(36:19):
I mean, listen to her, look at her.
Go find you women who, who you resonate with, who you're going to connect with.
They're out there.
They're as afraid to admit they're who they are as you're afraid to show who you are as aman.
But if you're just honest about it, I think
the feminine world would rise up to meet that energy.
(36:42):
And let me suggest something, Cassie.
I'm not gonna hold it against you, the whole dog chasing the car thing.
And I know that's a rough analogy & you don't deserve it.
Because I would guess that if a guy started showing up & being a man, you'd wanna do nicethings for him.
(37:02):
You'd say, you you've been so sweet.
You've taken me out on five dates & you treat me so nice.
Now it's my turn.
I'm going to cook you dinner or I'm going to bake you cookies.
And there's women out there rolling their eyes & going, what are you going to say next?
Make me a sandwich?
But a woman would like you, like you would go, well, I make a hell of a sandwich.
Get out of here with that.
Right?
I make a hell of a sandwich & I'm a guy.
(37:24):
You know, if my wife hears me doing this podcast & comes in & brings me a cup of teagoing, man, that was a great show.
I was overhearing it.
I would feel taken care of.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm going to go out,
bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, be the man, take a bullet for this family.
But the woman in my life will gladly recharge my batteries as a warrior, whether that'semotionally...
(37:49):
My wife, like you has a very cute, mellifluous voice.
I could listen to my wife read the phone book too.
That's very important to me.
I could, you know, my wife just talking to me, being present, smelling nice, getting hernails done, looking cute.
Obviously,
not to go down this rabbit hole, but sexually women are very pleasing to men.
(38:13):
Women are pleasure machines.
And when a woman's very proud of that, & a man takes great pride in that, ah that isindeed a wonderful woman to come home to.
It doesn't take much from either side, really.
It just takes effort.
It takes a desire to connect.
And a simple realization that men & women are different & we're supposed to be, & this isvery important & I want to hear your opinion on this.
(38:41):
We're, we're not supposed to be enemies.
We're not supposed to be adversaries.
It's not supposed to be he said/she said, us versus them.
We're supposed to be in partnership.
That's how we're physically & emotional emotionally, you know, designed.
So what, how do you think we get back to that?
(39:01):
What's your opinion on everything?
I just said?
Well, let me just...
preface.
not impressed look.
But I think it was the I'm thinking look more than anything.
OK.
Well, I don't know if I have, you know...
(39:23):
like I said, let me just preface this & say that like.
I feel like I didn't really answer your previous question on like if somebody you know waslistening to this & they were like oh she's she just wants to be lazy it's like that I've
never been like that I could never be like that & um you know even with dating guys thatdon't match my energy it doesn't make me a different person um I'm still me.
(39:51):
I'm still you know the carer.
I my mom was actually a nurse so I'm very
motherly with things.
So that, you know, even though the guys don't match my energy, that has never changed whoI was.
It's just made me more like aware of what I don't want in a partner.
(40:13):
And yeah, it just...
Right, yeah, it just makes me more aware.
And as I get older & I get to the age where maybe I wanna have kids, maybe I don't, it'slike, I need to find somebody who matches my energy but has that masculine side um because
(40:37):
it's getting hard to do everything.
I just, I think men & women can,
work together to bring back that energy.
I just think that it takes communication & we've been told that communication isconfrontation & that that's bad.
(41:00):
And I just think it's a society problem in general.
Um, I don't know what that looks like as far as how we fix it.
I think someone's gonna have to risk being authentically masculine & feminine again, & Ithink honestly it's incumbent upon us as men to lead.
I'm not afraid to admit that.
(41:21):
But it leaves all you ladies in the lurch until men start showing up again.
Facts.
Hashtag facts, right?
I can't help but wonder if, you all the plastic in our atmosphere has something to do withthe decline of masculinity.
Like, I don't want to get into all that, but...
(41:42):
you bring a good point.
And that's in the short answer is environmental factors, social factors, dietary factors,all of that...
Political factors, socio-political factors, all of it enters into it.
And it's all basically, you know, to use the C word conspiring to feminize us & to keepmen out of their masculine power.
(42:07):
I mean,
you're onto something there is all I'm saying.
I think this has been a fantastic conversation.
You're just adorable.
I hope you patch things up & get out of "The Just Be Roommates Zone" with your guy becauseI'm sure he's a good dude or you wouldn't be there.
And you start, you know, living the dream together & go have an adventure.
And what I want to do is I want to point these guys to what is your Instagram...
(42:30):
site, your Instagram account &
I can do that very quickly & easily by having these guys go tomountaintoppodcast.com/cassie C-A-S-S-I-E, & it'll point you to her Instagram.
That's where she wanted to send you guys.
(42:51):
Give her a like, see what she's up to.
uh Cassie Leigh, you've been wonderful.
Thank you for your insights.
I am going to admit something to you.
A lot of times I have people who are somewhat notable &...
have lots of alphabet soup behind their names come on the show & flex their knowledge &they've written books & been New York Times bestsellers.
(43:14):
But you know what my number one request is?
It's just, can you please just give me the normal kind of woman we'd actually like to date& get her opinion on things?
Because they tell me, I know you can coax it out of her.
Ask her all the questions that I would never ask her on a first date because it justwouldn't be first date conversation.
I think that's exactly what we did here today.
(43:34):
I'm pretty pumped.
It was pretty exciting.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you so much for having me, Scot, & thank you so much for letting me be vulnerable ina safe space.
um It was a pleasure.
way.
Well, do you have any, um, final rah rah speech or exhortations or, uh, promises of a jobwell done or anything like that you want to give these guys before we sign off?
(44:02):
Any final message?
um I just want to say I really hope that if people were listening to this & um they gotanything from it, please let me know.
I would absolutely love to share whatever they have to say.
And I'm happy to talk with anybody that needs some advice.
(44:24):
I'm all for promoting masculinity in men.
um So please feel free to also see me as a safe space for that.
Fantastic.
Well, you did good.
Good show.
Thank you so much, Scot.
Really appreciate you.
I appreciate you too.
Thank you for, uh, thank you for getting a hold of me &, requesting to be on the show.
(44:47):
This has been fantastic.
And guys, if you have not been to mountaintoppodcast.com lately, you can get on mycalendar, talk to me for 25, 30 minutes about what's on your mind.
Not only with this show, what you're thinking of the video format, but also, uh, gettingyour life together so that you are representing when you go out & meet women & you're
looking for women who represent femininity right back at you.
(45:10):
Hopefully this show has energized some of you guys out there who were starting to
a little cynical & perhaps maybe even worried that women don't exist anymore the way you'dlike them to.
I think a lot of women like Cassie out there are just, you know, they're afraid of gettingcanceled or something still if they talk like this.
But you know, just like she said, this is the safe place for that.
She's nodding her head over there.
Look at that.
(45:31):
And that to me is what it's all about.
Men & women being together.
If you guys want to put a plan together to um
put all this in action through coaching.
I'm your Huckleberry.
I got your back.
We can talk about that too.
Otherwise you can go to mountstotpodcast.com, download my book, Sticking Points Solved.
Also get show notes & pictures for all of our shows & visit our three longtime sponsors,Jocko Willinks Company, Origen in Maine, the Hero Soap Company,
(45:58):
& also The Keyport.
10 % off when you use mountaintop.
I'm sorry, when you use mountain10 as your coupon code, every time you buy something fromour sponsors, all of that & so much more is always there for you at
mountaintoppodcast.com.
And until I talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X & Y communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
(46:21):
Be good out there.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com