Centralized recruiting can look efficient on a dashboard and still fail the people doing the work. We sat down with the leadership team at Baron Properties to unpack how they moved away from a single gatekeeper and toward a human-centered, AI-assisted hiring model that puts decision power back where performance happens: on-site and at the regional level.
We walk through the real problems that sparked the change - resume floods, slow responses, and culture misfires, and the new mechanics that solved them. Adaptive interviews generate tailored questions that probe genuine skill gaps. Property-specific job profiles capture the competencies and success factors that make one site different from the next, so the same candidate can be a great fit in one place and a poor fit in another. Managers enter conversations with context and confidence, and candidates feel seen rather than filtered by a black box.
What makes this story different is the partnership. Instead of buying a rigid ATS and hoping it fits, Baron collaborated with product leaders to iterate fast, integrate cleanly, and train community managers to own the pipeline. Small frictions like interview no-shows or integration quirks were solved in hours, not quarters. The early results are clear: better candidate quality, faster decisions, and teams energized by hiring people who truly match their culture. The longer-term gains like retention, engagement, resident satisfaction are already lining up behind this shift.
If you lead multifamily teams and feel stuck between efficiency and empathy, this conversation offers a third path: decentralize decision-making, centralize insight, and let adaptive AI support the humans who carry the brand every day. Listen, share with a colleague who owns hiring outcomes, and tell us where you stand on centralization vs. empowerment. And if this resonated, subscribe and leave a review. We read every word.
About the Multifamily Innovation® Council:
The Multifamily Innovation® Council is the executive level membership organization that makes a difference in your bottom line, drives a better experience for your employees, and allows you an experience that keeps demand strong for your company. The council is uniquely positioned to focus on the intersection of Leadership, Technology, AI, and Innovation.
The Multifamily Innovation® Council is for Multifamily Business leaders who want to unlock value inside their organization so they can create better experiences and drive profitability inside their company.
To learn more or to join, visit https://multifamilyinnovation.com.
For more information and to engage with leaders shaping the future of multifamily innovation, visit https://multifamilyinnovation.com/.
Connect:
Multifamily Innovation® Council: https://multifamilyinnovation.com/
Patrick Antrim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickantrim/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Multifamily Innovation Podcast.
My name is Patrick Antrim.
I'm the chairman of theMultifamily Innovation Council
and the Technology and AI Centerof Excellence.
I have here our director ofproduct and innovation, Miles
Maby, with us.
He'll be co-hosting thisconversation.
Today we're talking aboutrethinking centralization.
We're talking with leaders abouta journey to empower our
(00:23):
leadership teams.
And, you know, oftentimes wethink about centralization,
we're thinking about aprofitable business and we're
keyed into the word efficiency.
What's the easiest path forward?
Maybe automation, even AI.
But today we're talking about ahuman-centered, people-centered
approach to empowering teamsthroughout the organization.
(00:46):
It's a pretty interestingconversation.
We brought in Baron Properties,their leadership team, both what
we call an MVT, minimum viableteam.
This is the executive champion.
We have the business processowners, and we have the
technical natives here that wereable to transform an experience
(01:06):
for an organization that youknow essentially makes it more
productive, more profitable,more enjoyable to work at.
And so Baron Properties is oneof the nationally ranked best
places to work multifamilycompanies.
So they think a littledifferently about investing
internally in the business.
They're shifting from acentralized recruiting model to
a decentralized recruitingmodel.
(01:27):
And this was an effort toempower company structure, but
also empower people through thatprocess.
What they're using today andpart of this series is what
we're calling proof overpromise, which means this is
what happened.
So this is a look back of areal-world innovation, what made
a difference in an organizationand the teams that made that
(01:48):
happen.
So we'll be talking about usetheir ability to use Picasso
Hire, which is powered by NectarFlow.
Miles will be talking a lotabout that as well.
But it's again centered on ahuman-centered hiring decisions,
which is improving the candidatequality and the interview
confidence so we can select theright people.
And that is really what uh we'retalking about here on our Proof
(02:11):
of a Promise series.
So today, with the topicrethinking centralization, a
leader's journey to empower thefrontline.
It isn't always about efficiencyand centralization.
This is a real-world proofstory.
So we'll be talking today withLiz Schloss.
She's the chief operatingofficer at Baron Properties.
Today we also have Lori St.
(02:31):
Germain, she's the seniorregional property manager, and
Lisa Dryling, who is the humanresource director.
Uh awesome team that we've beenable to assemble here.
We have Miles Maby, our directdirector of product innovation
at Nectarflow.
We'll be talking with Miles aswell.
And Peter Astorga, who is theproperty manager for on-site
(02:52):
operations where the businesshappens, and we'll be showing
you uh that conversation livewith us.
So welcome in.
SPEAKER_05 (02:59):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Yeah, we have uh you guys are in Scottsdale, so it's
nice to have Baron come over tothe innovation lab and share the
time.
And that's I think where we allstarted this journey uh back at
the summit, and then now uh aconversation with Liz and uh
maybe we can start there.
Liz, um you were looking at ummaybe I know we talked about a
(03:21):
problem worth solving, but uhmaybe go into a little bit of
your vision of why you werethinking about this, why this
mattered to the businessobjectives and begin there.
SPEAKER_03 (03:32):
Well, you know, as a company, uh multifamily is
definitely increased in the sizeof you know units and um
throughout the nation.
And so with that, you get thechallenge of uh attracting the
right talent.
And um in today's world, you'vegot a little bit more of a
diluted talent pool, especiallywith the expansion of the
(03:52):
industry growth that we've had.
So our goal was to how do wefigure out the right person for
our company for this particularasset?
We don't want to blanket uh a uma job description for one
community manager because ahigh-class community, you know,
type A and an A location getting$5,000 rents, it's much
(04:15):
different than perhaps a moreaffordable or attainable.
And Barron does both of those.
So we were trying, we weresearching for something that
could help us differentiate thattalent pool and then also hire
the right people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, you know, the conversation around AI today is
interesting, it's a movingtarget in some sorts, and you
know, it's it's you know, thethe human experience becomes the
compet the last real competitiveadvantage and your ability to do
interesting things.
Um, talk to us a little bitabout um when you realized um
this was a problem we'resolving, like what what process,
(04:50):
what thinking process did you gothrough to actually get into
action?
SPEAKER_03 (04:55):
Well, I think it was more of a you know trying to
understand how AI could help usin this capacity.
And you know, one of the biggestthings that we struggled with
was we went through severalinterviewing processes with
several different people, andthe person would start, and then
after 30 days, we find out itwas a mismatch.
It just wasn't a good fit forthat particular role.
(05:18):
And so it was how can we utilizeAI with you know some sort of um
psychology, if you will, to comeand insert into this equation
and try and pinpoint some youknow thought-provoking questions
for our leaders to be able toget more out of them to get a
better quality uh employee.
SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
Yeah.
And you know, with before usingPicasso, like what did that look
like?
Um even in the interviewprocess, um, standardized
questions, like how were youthinking through that?
Um, I guess before we werestarted working with that.
SPEAKER_04 (05:52):
You know, and I think there wasn't a lot of uh
really standardization to that,but what we did have is our we
had an in-house recruiter thatwould manage the process from
the posting of the ad to thetaking in of the resumes and
ultimately then interviewing.
So I think it was really up toour recruiter and what his
(06:14):
thoughts were, which wereprobably fairly common questions
for the same role each and everytime.
And then he would pass on hisquality uh candidates on to the
properties themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And Miles, you've worked uhclearly with uh the team.
Talk to us a little bit aboutmoving through that challenge, I
guess.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Yeah, uh well, one of the challenges with that is
is there's one person that'skind of everything's gotta go
through.
Um that's that centralizedapproach.
That's a centralized approach.
And so um with Picasso Hire, uhthe candidates come in, um, you
know, it also handles theposting of the ad and those
types of things.
(06:57):
And so because things aredisplayed really nicely, I think
that really lends to opening itup and having more people being
able to have access to thecandidates that are in the
system so they can review it andlook at it.
Um you know, and you can getmore eyes on the same candidate,
and then more opinions can be uhformulated and put together to
lead to that selection piece.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:18):
And and to add on to that, so you had a centralized
person who was in a corporateoffice, that there was maybe a
little bit of a disconnectbetween what the personality was
at the asset or what the culturewas at the asset.
So he may be looking forsomething that he might think is
a good candidate, but it may notfit that culture at that
particular asset.
Exactly.
(07:38):
So the standardizedcentralization, we thought, God,
you know, can we get can we dobetter?
I think we can do better.
And so that's why we the thatyour product was so um
intriguing.
And so, you know, we just said,why not?
Let's try it, and it's ended upended up to be great.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
Yeah, so and that brings up a good point.
I mean, this goes to leasing aswell, but is that you have
different investment objectivesat each asset too.
So having a centralized personfar from that, maybe not even in
that role, specifically knowinglike what is materially needed.
Were there any bottlenecks withthe old way that you you found
(08:15):
were unlocked by moving to thisnew process?
SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
You know, I think one of the biggest challenges we
had is just the number ofresumes that we get.
Yeah.
And just going through, I mean,um, our in-house recruiter going
through those resumes, it was sotime consuming.
SPEAKER_05 (08:31):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (08:32):
And that's one of the things that we've really
enjoyed with Picasso Hire, isjust that really the efficiency
of the product um has helpedimmeasurably.
Um, because a lot of thoseresumes are not resumes that we
necessarily wanted to spend timewith, but it was taking us so
much time.
I mean, often we had hundreds,two to three hundred resumes for
(08:56):
a position within a week.
And so that takes up a lot oftime.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Yeah.
And it's interesting, it's notjust a company problem, this is
an industry problem because uh,and even outside of multifamily,
is that because of thatoverwhelm from an admin
standpoint, and the way thattechnology has been built to
solve for um selecting the rightpeople has been in a centralized
program.
You can't buy an applicanttracking system for every
(09:22):
property.
And so you end up with thiscentralized view, and it and
then then the I guess therecruiting manager gets
overwhelmed and they don'tfollow up with everybody, so
then everybody that's applying,they just keep applying to
everything, and it overwhelmsthe system.
And uh so that's it's uh what wecall the candidate experience,
is um at least we're able to,you know, can s sift through
(09:45):
those resumes faster.
And was it seven seconds theyspend on average on a human uh
and looking at a resume?
And it's like, well, who did wemiss?
SPEAKER_03 (09:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:55):
Not always, you know, who's not in there, but
like who did we miss?
SPEAKER_03 (09:59):
Or sometimes it would take too long for us to
get back to that candidate andthey'd already accepted a
position somewhere else.
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
So yeah, they're happy to hear back from
somebody, right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (10:08):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Um so uh you were working withum an applicant tracking system
currently.
So was it did it feel like um achange management initiative, or
was it how did you think throughfrom a leadership team?
And maybe you guys can talk likehow you interface together about
(10:30):
that.
Um was everybody excited at thebeginning or not?
Or was it like I know Liz, youwere a champion.
Sorry.
So certainly how important isthat?
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Certainly a champion.
And I I do believe that anytimeyou adopt technology AI into a
business that from the very topdown there has to be buy-in.
Um and if there isn't, it wassimply will not work.
Um so it doesn't mean thateveryone has to have buy-in, but
the executive leadershipabsolutely has um must have
(11:00):
that.
And I was fortunate enough tohave my partners in in our
business who believed in what wewere doing.
And so um I do think that therewere um the change management is
probably the most difficultwithin any corporation with
technology.
Um, but I think if you approachit in the right way, um, I think
(11:21):
that it will that that's the keyis to make sure that you're
hitting, you're you'reapproaching it in the right way,
that you you have measurablegoals and outcomes that you want
to achieve.
Um, and then the partnership ishugely important.
So I know Lisa's, we wouldn't,we talk about it all the time
about the partnership and howspecial that has been with you
guys.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Yeah.
Well, let's talk about that.
Miles, like uh what we did uh aspart of this, and and you guys
know this, is we ran a betaprogram, and we had about 87
people.
And I think you reached out,Lori.
Was it?
SPEAKER_05 (11:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
And uh we were talking about other things, and
we ended up like, what's thebiggest problem we're solving?
And you said, well, we need tomeet our COO, and we met Liz.
And so in that beta program, wegrouped them because we had an
we had almost 87 people sign upfor that, and we knew we wanted
to sort of what we call obsesson our first you know, hundred
(12:16):
to really build with theminstead of going to market,
like, hey, we built thissoftware, buy it, make it work
for you.
It's like, how do we worktogether to figure out what's
the real problem we're solving?
How do we get that alignment sothen uh executives and stay
excited about that initiative?
And then how do we involveeverybody in the process from
on-site?
(12:36):
You know, we're gonna be talkingabout that with Peter today, and
then you know, with your yourneeds, compliance, you have
other things that are going on,current technology you're using.
Um, and so that was ourinitiative.
And I think you came in excited,and I was like, we're gonna do,
we're gonna slow down actually.
Like I would have loved to sellyou all kinds of stuff, right?
But we're like, let's justcrawl, walk, run here, let's get
(12:59):
this right and establishconfidence and let the teams
experience some.
So, Miles, let's talk about thata little bit.
Um, and maybe you guys can sharemore.
I I don't know much about whatyour experience was, but uh
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:11):
Well, I mean, the way that our system had been set
up is we work with an HRISsystem, and so we were utilizing
that HRIS system to feed our umour, in this case it was uh
LinkedIn or Indeed.
SPEAKER_05 (13:24):
Yeah, the ads and all that.
SPEAKER_04 (13:25):
Exactly.
And then it would um movethrough that process and back
into the onboarding piece.
And so it was really uh acomplete flip for us because we
had to move in a differentdirection.
The way that the our HRIS systemwas working didn't really allow
for us to work in tandem withPicasso Hires.
So um Miles was integral inmaking sure that we were able to
(13:51):
get the system to the systemsthat we needed to talk to one
another.
And you know, and it took us alittle bit of time.
We worked through somechallenges, um, but ultimately
coming up with a product thatreally is providing us um a very
fast, it's a very fast processfor us to get the candidate
(14:11):
information, for our managers toget that information, and for us
to be able to self-select.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Sure, sure.
And maybe Liz or you know, Laurawill talk to us a little bit
about how important thatpartnership is, like in terms of
um making sure success isincreased.
SPEAKER_06 (14:30):
Sure.
So the the partnership is reallyimportant.
Um, what I've noticed,particularly with Miles, is that
if we've got a question or oh,how do we handle this or oh I
wish it did this, we reach outand he makes it happen.
So I have 100% confidence.
All I have to do is shoot off anemail.
It'll be done in about twohours.
(14:51):
Um and we're we're kind ofimproving the system together.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Yeah.
How does that feel?
Is that is that um you thinkthat's an I mean, obviously
important, but uh is itinformative, educational?
Like uh do you feel like you'remore empowered with that process
or is it just like relief to theI think the whole process is um
it's it's putting it into theright hands where it needs to
(15:16):
be.
SPEAKER_06 (15:17):
I need to see those candidates.
And and like Lisa wasmentioning, um easily we get a
hundred applications.
SPEAKER_05 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (15:24):
Normally our normal process is gonna be, hey, we're
gonna look at this one.
Nope, okay, this one is a maybe,maybe, maybe.
And then we're going through ourmaybe pile and we're like, nope,
maybe, maybe.
Um the process is so much fasterbecause it's already kind of
picked up some key things.
Um, and if we this is anotherpart I love, if we aren't
getting the right candidates, wecan change something in our job
(15:44):
description.
I know we're gonna talk aboutthe job description part um to
get the right candidates.
So uh really interesting that itwe couldn't have done it without
that partnership.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
And Liz, we needed to make sure this went well for
you.
I mean, you were you weretrying, uh you want you knew you
had a path and a vision for abetter way forward.
And um there had to be.
SPEAKER_03 (16:07):
There had to be a way.
And I do believe in technologyand I do believe in innovation.
And so being able, I I getexcited about that to be able to
come into an industry where it'svery antiquated when it comes to
technology, the real estateworld.
Um, but we're starting to getthere and to add little bits and
pieces to our world.
And you know, the human capitalpiece is such a precious
(16:27):
resource that we hold sacred atour company.
And so to be able to have a tooland a partner to help us find
that precious resource that wewant to have for a long time,
um, that's valuable for us.
Um, and so that, you know, Ithink the the platform that
(16:50):
we've entered into, I stillthink is in the infancy stage.
Um, I still think we can gofurther with trying to attract,
you know, even you know, justmore ideas, you know, for what
we need.
And I think that's just a in youknow, future, future years to
come where the the enhancementsof this will be pretty
empowering.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And how did you feel thealignment improved?
Um now regionals are more activein the selection process.
Is that getting closer to theasset?
Is that our managers now?
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
Yeah, so one of the things that was very important
to us is that we still wantedthat human interaction.
We did not want technology beingthe face for Baron because we
are a people business, we're atransactional business, but we
do want to use technology as apartner um in order to make
decisions.
And how fun was it to uh, andwe'll talk to Peter a little bit
(17:43):
later, but one of our umcandidates utilized the AI bot
to interview him, and how funthat that was to explain to him
what we're we're you know,testing and let us know your
feedback.
And um, so that's how you getbuy-in is to continue to
experience what that is and tohelp improve it too.
Sure.
(18:03):
I mean, we talked about takingthe um speed up, you know, the
conversation, slow theconversation down.
This is what we want the we wantthe bot to preface this, you
know, prior to the, you know, umto the conversation, really
making it clear that we would beultimately making the decision
the human would be, but it itcomes with a partnership um with
(18:26):
technology.
SPEAKER_00 (18:27):
Yeah, you know, we that's the name of the the
company.
I mean, Picasso, and and and Ithink you guys know this uh for
the viewers and listeners, um,we we looked at the resume, and
the resume is sort of comes inas like a stick figure.
It doesn't really tell us awhole lot about the person,
their competencies, the successfactors, the things that are
going to lead to actualperformance at work.
(18:48):
And so when we talked about thename Picasso came up, like we
just want to give you betterdecision intelligence to choose
and select and give you a fullpicture, full colorful because
humans are full range, they haveunique abilities, they have uh
just things that sometimes theyjust need to express themselves
(19:09):
even outside that resume.
And um, you know, using the AIvoice technology allows us at
the front end, I think, to getthe improv the selection better
for you to have something to gooff of to have productive
interviews and things like that.
And I think that's in thenuances of that competency.
We talked about jobdescriptions, like um not
(19:31):
rushing that process, gettingthat right, uh, and that
competency, right, that thattalks about the behaviors and
then the success factors.
Um, that plays out in improvingour model.
So this is where your team hasan intimate understanding of the
business, of the location,what's useful, what does it
need, what are the priorities,and who do we need to to come
(19:54):
into this equation?
And if that gets into the model,now this is this is something no
other HRS system would havebecause you're you're kind of
creating your own train AI modelfor every job role, you know.
And um, how has that been interms of getting the
competencies and getting thatinto the model?
SPEAKER_06 (20:14):
Is that Liz set up all of the different job
descriptions for the differentsites?
Um did a really good job.
We had to tweak a little bit.
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (20:23):
Thank you, Lisa.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
And you're co-hosting, so whatever you jump
in.
I don't want to dominate the Ijust totally forgot what I'm
talking about.
Um we're talking about the jobcompetencies, uh descriptions.
SPEAKER_06 (20:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yep.
SPEAKER_06 (20:34):
Okay, so um with the with each each posting is its
own, basically.
It's not a blanket, it's uniqueto that property.
Um, and I I do like that.
And what we have seen is thatone candidate might apply to
more than one job and be rankeddifferently.
So it's really about that jobdescription and how they um
(20:56):
match up with what that propertyneeds.
So that is the one thing that wehaven't been able to do before.
Um, so that's really excitingfor us.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
And I I think too that the managers also have
additional confidence now inthey have so much information
about these candidates to beable to look in and really, you
know, where it's really breakingthat resume down to determine
the skill set of the individual,I think gives the manager
confidence in their nextinterview that they're going to
(21:29):
be having.
Plus, the interviewingquestions, I think, has just
created a real positiveexperience for our managers to
take that next step in findingthe right candidate, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
Yeah.
And they don't have time to comeup with those questions.
I mean, you want them leasing,right?
I mean, you want them takingcare of residents.
SPEAKER_03 (21:46):
And you want the questions tailored to what that
residence resonance resumeportrays.
And so what I thought was so umunique about the the program is
that not every question was thesame.
If you looked at, if you startedreally studying them, they were
different based off of theresume.
And then once you get theprofile after the AI interview,
(22:09):
then it even gets more robust.
Um, and so those questions youcan dig in a little bit deeper.
So maybe you have two or threecandidates that you're really
you just don't know which one tochoose.
That AI lat that last interviewcomponent will allow us to do
that last interview and answersome questions that we may not
have known to think of, butwould definitely make the make
(22:31):
it easier, uh, the decisioneasier to make.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
So and I think this this highlights one of the
advantages and power ofgenerative AI is this
individualization of things likethe questions or the
conversations that you know it'dbe hard to do that for every
single candidate, for one of youguys to to sit down and write
those types of questions.
(22:55):
You'd run out at a certain pointand start reusing questions or
something like that.
So the great thing, uh, and thisis where this new technology
that is relatively recent,combined with the um automation
of the ATS type where we keepall the organized the resumes
organized and everything,combining what information we
get from the candidate and whatwe can do with generative AI,
(23:18):
creates a much fuller pictureand that report that has the
questions and the skills and allthat for you guys to have all
that information on every singlecandidate.
SPEAKER_04 (23:27):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah.
Talk to me about the assessmentitself.
Like, how's that been different?
You've you're what our visionwas typically when you hire a
high-level position, like a CEOposition, it goes through a full
range of this type of analysis.
And then, but the problem withthat is you're paying a 30% fee
(23:48):
to a recruiting agency to do allthat hard work and and to do
that.
And so we've been able to dothat on every applicant for you,
technically, in that assessment.
That would be like apresentation, like, here's what
you have, by the way, these thisis where we need to lean in.
This may be a red flag here, uh,ask these questions, get clarity
on this.
How has that report or theassessment been uh useful in in
(24:10):
crafting and managing theseconversations with potential
candidates?
SPEAKER_04 (24:15):
Well, you know, we use the we use that the AI
assessment after we've had ourum in-face, our person-to-person
interviews, because we wanted tomake sure, because we are a
company that's concerned aboutour employees, and we wanted to
make sure that it also was a funcomponent.
That this was something that weadded that wasn't laborious or
(24:36):
you know difficult.
It was actually going to beinteresting and informative.
And um, so we've tried to makeit a fun ad to our candidates,
and I think that they havepicked up on that.
Um, and then getting theinformation where we're learning
more, like kind of aMyers-Briggs style personality
(24:56):
test.
We're learning more about thatperson and how they're gonna fit
into their team.
And really to Liz's point, youknow, we were talking about each
property has its own culture, ithas its own feel.
And so this is where the managercan really take that information
and really drill down to say,you know what, this is a
personality and a person that'sgonna be a great fit for us.
(25:18):
So, you know, to Liz's pointwhere we have maybe two or three
different candidates, we canreally pick the right candidate
for the role.
And ultimately, we believe thatthat's going to give us a higher
quality candidate, a candidatethat's going to stay with us
longer because they enjoy theirjob and they're a good fit.
So we're helping them also inthat fit process.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Right, right.
It leads to culture andeverything.
Were there moments where you youdoubted things?
Like you didn't think like earlyon, we're like, oh, will this
even work?
SPEAKER_04 (25:47):
Or you know, I know I did.
Um I I was That's your job too,though.
It is.
I'm a natural skeptic.
SPEAKER_03 (25:54):
I am a natural skeptic.
So call it the Valley ofDespair.
Yes, you go down and you're justlike, just wait and just wait.
And then as soon as we get abovethat threshold, we're there.
And um, so yes, we had we didhave some Valley of Despair
conversations.
We did.
SPEAKER_04 (26:11):
We did, yeah.
Um, but what I think Well, howdid you push through those?
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Let's get into that.
Because that if if you if youretreated, you wouldn't have
benefited from all this impact,right?
Financially experienced companyculture, all that stuff, right?
Like driving the businessforward.
So, like when you are in themoment, you're trying maybe
something new or different, andthere was a moment of doubt,
instead of quitting orretreating, you guys pushed
through.
(26:34):
So, what was what was that like?
SPEAKER_04 (26:37):
Truly super miles.
Yeah, it is super miles.
Um, I think that our product isso custom to what we needed that
when we did have a moment wherewe said, I don't know if this is
gonna work, being able to comeback and the partnership that we
had with Miles to say, Miles, Idon't know, this doesn't seem
(27:00):
like it's working right, was themoment when Miles, who always
has a smile on his face, by theway, would say, Lisa, here's
what we can do.
Um, there were even situationswhere I think Lori had reached
out to me and said, Hey, Lisa,I'm really struggling with
we're, you know, we're gettingthese interviews set up, but
then when we're ready to speakto the person, sometimes the
(27:21):
candidate isn't showing up.
And so I was like, gosh, we'vegot to remember a way.
We need to come up with a way tobe representing this so that we
know that when that personinterviews again, that okay,
they don't show up for theirinterviews.
This isn't the candidate wewant.
And so I reached out to Miles,asked the question, and Miles
said, Hey Lisa, give me about 30minutes.
(27:43):
I'm gonna I'm gonna go work onsomething.
Let me get you on the phone andwe'll we'll talk through it.
So I was like, sure, he's gotstuff going on.
So in about 30 minutes, we geton the phone, and I said, Okay,
so Miles, here's the situation.
He goes, Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
So I did it.
I fixed Walready for you.
He had already found thesolution, implemented it for us,
and given us the the outcomethat we needed.
(28:06):
And it's things like that thatmade those moments, those low
moments made us made us realize.
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
Yeah, yeah.
And from a partnership to fromthe other side of the pond, if
you will, um, even though we'rereally in the same boat, um, you
know, you guys were very vocalin letting me know what where
how you were feeling.
You know, sometimes uh you youjust have a customer, they don't
you don't interact with themvery much, and then they cancel
out of the blue, and you'relike, you don't know why.
Um, and so what's really beengreat is that partnership in the
(28:36):
communication back and forth.
Um, I know Lisa, we haveexchanged I don't know how many
emails about stuff, you know,questions, comments, concerns,
and and I love that feedback,you know, to know, okay, let's
tweak this, let's change this.
This isn't working for them.
They need this, you know.
That's the important thing forme as is for the product and
innovation to push it forward isthat feedback loop.
(29:00):
And so even when you were in themiddle of despair, um, as you
say, being able to communicatebetween the two of us, that
communication level was soimportant for me to be able to
be there to help.
Um, because when the customer'sdespairing, I also feel despair,
you know.
Um and we worked through quite afew different things, two
different integrations, indeed,and another one, you know, to
(29:22):
get our software up to uhfunctioning in this nice flow
that reached that efficiency.
Right.
Um and you guys were extremelyhelpful in walking us through uh
those integrations, giving usaccess to be able to test
things, um, to make sureeverything was as robust as
possible.
Uh and so you know, from thepartnership, the communication
and the mutual benefishing isthis you know what made that
(29:44):
work and helped us get to thepoint we are now.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And and you had so you had theline resources to do that, but
one of the things and you're nottalking to someone in sales,
it's he's leading up product.
So that's one of the I think thebenefits of working with Nectar.
Flow and even under the PicassoHigher product is like um you're
not it used to be we boughtsoftware that was built for
(30:07):
everyone and now we're buildingwith you a solution to solve a
business problem, not sell asoftware.
SPEAKER_03 (30:13):
That's the game changer.
That is the game changer.
You know, you even with weutilize in Toronto for our
software program, and absolutelywonderful.
We love them as partnership, butit's their software.
And to be able to accommodateour needs is not necessarily
what that they're there to do.
Um, and so that is why I thinkthis is such a unique
partnership, is because it is sotailored to um to customer, if
(30:39):
you will, and what we're whatwe're really wanting and trying
to achieve.
SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
Yeah, and I think that's that's important to get
that.
You talked a lot about thealignment and things like that,
to be able to have that businessgoal and and to be able to, you
know, we want we want thebusiness outcome.
We don't necessarily want thetool, right?
We and and if we know what thebusiness outcome is, we can
apply decisions, what softwarecan solve that to make the
(31:04):
problem go away or create thisnew future you want.
And and uh I'm I I get a lot ofuh satisfaction knowing like
you've led such a great processthere.
I I really appreciate that.
And it it's not it's you needthe customer commitment too.
So I think a lot of people inmultifamily say that hiring is a
problem, but they haven'tapproached it the way you have.
(31:27):
They're just advertising andthey're they're not think
stopping to think about how bigthis problem is impacting their
business.
I mean, you think about one renta week over a course of a week
or a year at one property, thefinancial impact by not getting
this right is substantial.
So I commend your leadership onthat.
SPEAKER_03 (31:47):
And and I you I talk to my peers about it all the
time.
It's one of the number oneproblems is staff recruitment
and then staff retention for youknow the talent talent.
And to get the right person, Ithink is in step number one
because if you've hired thewrong person, you're not going
to retain them.
SPEAKER_05 (32:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (32:05):
Um, if it's not a good fit, chances are the
retention's not going to bethere.
So let's let's start off withstep one in the right direction,
and then we have a better chanceof that retention.
I think it's still too like soonto tell whether or not, you
know, we're gonna we haven'teven approached a year now, but
yeah, but it I do think that asLisa, when I asked her at the
(32:27):
very end, the comment, I said,Do are you happy with what you
know Pelaso has to offer?
And she said, we are gettingbetter quality can candidates
faster.
And that that's just you knowone, you know, one of the pieces
to the puzzle of hiring a greatum uh candidate or employee, but
(32:49):
that is from a monetarystandpoint, that's huge from um
from my chair.
SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Yeah, let's lean into more of that.
You're an executive, you havefinancial penal responsibility
over the organization, whereinvestments are placed and
prioritized.
Um how did that shake out foryou?
Like um, I know that you youwent from centralized to
decentralized ROI standpoint,like where where are we on that
metric?
SPEAKER_03 (33:12):
I think it's too I think it's too early to tell
right now, um, but I do knowthat we're going in the right
direction.
Uh, I do know, you know, it wasnot the idea to replace a
position, but this platform hasreplaced um our recruiter.
Um, it doesn't mean that thereare things that are needed.
Lisa's taken on some additionalresponsibilities, but we're also
utilized utilizing sometechnology in other areas of her
(33:36):
world that are allowing her towhat I say, instead of doing
four things, she's managingeight because of technology.
So that that is really the goalwithin you know each of our
positions, leadership positions,is to to get that, not to take
positions, but to get a littlebit more bandwidth, and we just
need to do it differently thanwhat we used to, what we how we
(33:59):
used to operate.
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
Yeah, so you had the centralized one recruiter, that
role changed.
Now you have your regionaloperations, even your on-site
managers, property managers,better at recruiting.
Like tell me how that has madeturned them into recruiters
essentially.
SPEAKER_06 (34:14):
Well, Peter, who we'll be talking to, was
actually the first one that didthe AI interview for us.
So he's kind of walked throughthe whole thing, and I don't
want to take from hisexperience, but uh we'll yeah,
we'll we'll ask him for for sureabout that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
Yeah.
But I mean, are you getting isthat has that been an
improvement to have more uh Iguess closer to the operations?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (34:35):
You know, I think one of the pieces that we
haven't talked about is it talksa little bit about what
motivates the person.
And that's really key becausethere's the baron, and like that
that is our culture, and thenthere's the site that we have to
also match up to.
SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
So yeah.
Um, I I have a question hereabout like what advice.
So there's a lot of people aregonna listen to this, watch
this.
Um, they're leading national,regional portfolios.
Uh, you guys have a lot ofreally great assets already
underway.
Um, what advice would you giveto other multifamily leaders
(35:10):
that are considering thinkingabout either using Picasso or
even um solving this businesschallenge?
Any any reflections on that?
Any one of you can share on thatone?
SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
Well, I think, you know, I I had said it earlier on
in the conversation is to adoptsomething like this, you will
need a foundation of support.
Um, and so having that is numberone is everyone has to have
buy-in from an executiveleadership style.
And then the appropriateindividual and the appropriate
processes in order to implementthat change because of the
(35:46):
change management, more so onthe people side, that's very
difficult for some people.
So, whatever you do, um that'swhat I've learned in the short
time that we've started toimplement that we've started to
implement more technology intoour business, how how important
it is to have a plan and whatthat looks like, and the proper
communication uh and the styleof communication to certain
(36:10):
audiences.
Um you can talk to me all daylong about it, I get excited,
but if you go to a differentpersonality, it's fear.
Um, or am I going to lose myjob?
Or it it's um so you you'vereally got to tater to you've
got to uh tailor your yourcommunication to the appropriate
audience, if you will.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And uh in your role, what areyou most proud of with this
process?
SPEAKER_04 (36:38):
You know, I think um, you know, to Liz's point
that she uh, you know, she hadmentioned, you know, getting a
better quality candidate moreefficiently, I think it's really
exciting to see our managersgetting excited.
Um I I can't tell you, I mean,it really, it really makes me
happy to hear from my managersaying, hey, guess what?
(37:00):
I just met this great person andthey're gonna be a great fit for
our role, you know, and justseeing their enthusiasm and
their excitement for their newcandidate versus having somebody
more like, you know, handed tothem and they go, oh, okay,
there's a choice.
Work with them, make it work.
And one of the things that wewere hearing at the corporate
(37:21):
office was they were saying,well, our candidates are not a
good fit.
Um, we were hearing that therewas a disconnect, and we're
like, where's this disconnectcoming from?
We think we've got these greatcandidates that we're sending to
you.
But our employees and ourmanagers are saying, you know
what, I found the rightcandidate.
I've looked at all of thesepeople, and their enthusiasm to
(37:42):
me says we made the rightdecision.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Elevating, that's theempowerment piece.
SPEAKER_04 (37:47):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
You know, where uh and then they can grow and scale
whatever whatever visions youhave for the for those roles.
Anything else that you wanted toshare?
SPEAKER_06 (37:56):
Or I guess the only thing we talked a little bit
about about the cost savings,like as we did our budgets this
year, yeah, it's less expensivefor us.
Yeah.
In the most part, there was ahandful of few that it's gonna
be a little more depending onthe size of the property.
But yeah, so uh it was a abenefit in that way as well, a
real win-win.
(38:16):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
And then Liz, going back to you, like how does it
feel being I mean, it's neverdone.
I always tell Miles or we alwayslaugh because we'll talk about
ready versus done.
It's never done, it's just readyfor the next version, the next
it's like our iPhones, right?
Like they're just constantlyinnovating, and we want to
continually have interface withyou guys as we build the
(38:38):
business uh to um continuallyinnovate and make make the
product better as as ourbusinesses evolve as well.
Um, knowing what you'veaccomplished in such a short
time, how does that deliverconfidence for your stakeholders
and and how does that make youfeel as a leader in that
process?
SPEAKER_03 (38:56):
Well, I think that we're moving in the right
direction.
I've got my next set ofquestions and challenges for you
guys.
So we what I always try and say,we talk about it, let's break
the system.
Try and break it with justpushing it as hard as we can
push it.
And I think that you guys havebeen great with that.
Um I do, I do know that there'sbuy-in.
I know that they're um, and I amI'm even more excited, probably
(39:20):
next year at this time, we'llhave a really good understanding
from a retention standpoint andwhat we've been able to
accomplish.
Obviously, that there's the theuh the the areas that are
probably they're not able we'renot able to measure as as it
relates to true performance.
Um, you know, but um theretention, the turnover, um, the
(39:43):
satisfaction that we're startingto see from our own employees
when we complete those residentum excuse me, those employee
satisfaction surveys, I thinkthat will speak volumes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
So what's on the roadmap for Barron?
What are you guys excited aboutnow that you're I mean, moving
forward in new directions andlike what what's exciting?
What's next?
SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
I think we're looking for you to guys to tell
us what what do you have next toyou know venture into?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Well, this has been exciting.
I I uh I have uh I want to do gointo our next segment.
We're gonna talk more at thelocation, more at the property,
on how this essentially getsdown and gets alignment between
corporate initiatives, financialgovernance, compliance, vision
for a better hiring and companyculture.
(40:30):
We talked a lot about um theimpact to the decision
intelligence and all that stuff.
But now let's get into theconversation with Peter and get
into like how it's impacted hisworld from his point of view,
because that's ultimately whatwe're all building is this
business to support the fieldthe closest to the customer that
we can impact.
We can drive yield, protectyield in the business, and uh
(40:54):
we'll have that thatconversation with Peter.
Any final remarks that you wantto leave with or any any any
final thoughts?
SPEAKER_03 (41:02):
I just want to thank you guys for an incredible
partnership.
Um, it's been great since dayone.
Um we've we've certainlymeandered through a lot of peaks
and valleys over the last youknow six to eight months.
So it's been and thank you forallowing us to to join you today
on your podcast.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (41:20):
It's been great to have you guys on.
And so we'll cut right here fora break, and we'll be right back
with Peter.
All right, welcome back.
We're here with Peter Storga.
He's the property manager forBaron, and this is all about
rethinking centralization andempowering leadership teams,
even on the front lines.
So, Peter, welcome in.
Thank you.
It's great to have you here.
(41:42):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, have you been on a podcastbefore?
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
I have not.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
Okay, all right.
Well, now you have.
And uh, you know, one of thethings that we do with these
conversations is we're talking alittle bit about more proof of
our promise.
Uh, you know, especially as anon-site manager, I mean, we've
lived your world, we canappreciate that that's where the
value is created.
Um, you're you're a mayor of acity, basically, there, and
(42:05):
you're taking care of a hightask, what I call high task and
high relationship.
But you're running a hundredmillion dollar asset, probably,
right?
And and sometimes we don't uhappreciate that because we get
lost in the activities, they areso high, the pressures are so
high, we've got to turn around aproperty, lease it up, got
collections, you got all thesethings that we're doing.
And at the end of that day, um,people are the most important
(42:29):
asset, and behind every successand failure is a person.
And I wanted to get yourperspective of how you've been
able to think through selectingyour teams or going through that
process and uh get someperspectives maybe from your
point of view, um, what that'sbeen like.
So, uh how has been working withPicasso been different for the
(42:49):
way that you've typicallyapproached hiring new people?
SPEAKER_02 (42:53):
Uh so it's very new to me.
I'm very old school where yougrab a stack of papers and you
kind of have to go througheverything and try to weed out
the ones that aren't a good fit.
Um, but it's very black andwhite.
Picasso Hire has streamlined itso well that it's like having
your personal assistant tellingyou this is a good candidate.
This is not, this is, you know,this is there have gaps here,
(43:14):
asking questions about this.
Um and it streams streamlines itso easy for me.
Um it makes my job so mucheasier.
SPEAKER_00 (43:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And so um how does that feellike knowing like you're more
prepared for that interview?
I mean, at some point you wereinterviewing, right?
And you know, the process can beintimidating, right?
So as a candidate, you know,when you're coming to that
meeting as a property manager,you're there face to face with
the interview.
Um, I'm sure that has adifferent feel now that you have
(43:45):
sort of this appearance ofyou've done all this investment
in them to really understand andconnect.
What is what is how is thatplayed out at all?
SPEAKER_02 (43:54):
Yeah, personalizing the questions to the candidate
is um I know it empowered me.
Um I think they feel it as wellbecause it's not like, hey, I'm
gonna ask you generalizedquestions, it's more of hey, I
seen your resume.
I've seen that you're good atthis, this, or this.
Um, can you elaborate a littlebit more?
So personalized questions toeach candidate is amazing for
me.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
Yeah.
Now, did I hear that right?
Did you come in through Picassoas a I did?
So you were hired through this.
Okay, I didn't know that.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (44:21):
Yeah, so that's great.
They had me go through theprocess.
Okay.
I thought it was a little clunkyat first because I was like,
Well, I'm talking to a robot.
Um, but as the interview went onand it started asking me
personalized questions, I waslike, oh, this is it's learning
as I'm talking.
So um that was pretty, prettyfun.
SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and how are you um how doyou feel as a leader?
Like, do you feel like you'regrowing in your career?
You're getting better at thatprocess.
I mean, ultimately, I know asyou're building teams, um, your
ability to build a great team isis really what makes you grow in
this career.
And do you feel like you'regetting um more intelligence on
(44:58):
that?
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Oh yeah, um, asking the right questions.
Um ultimately it comes down topersonality.
Um, I know you have five greatcandidates, but how they act,
react, um, face to face reallymakes a difference.
SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Yeah, yeah.
And uh and feel free to jump in.
I don't want to dominate thehost here.
Um what uh what are what aresome of the things that you're
hearing in those interviews?
Are are are people coming lessprepared for those types of
questions?
Like the standard questions,these are different questions,
or I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Um, like you guys said mentioned earlier, um, it
does get kind of repetitive andit's kind of a blanket statement
or a blanket interview.
Uh now it has become more ofeach individual person.
Um I think.
SPEAKER_06 (45:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Yes.
Yeah.
Um and it's yeah, it's it's beengreat.
Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
I know a lot of the questions that are written, uh,
some of the goals of thequestion is to just uncover the
gap between the resume, what'spresented in the resume, and the
job, description, competency,success factors.
Uh, and that's a huge goal thatwe have written in those
questions is to come up to findthose gaps, because they may be
gaps, they may not be gaps.
Um, have you had experience withlike asking those questions and
(46:12):
being like, wow, they really dohave a gap or they really don't
have that gap?
Has that um played out throughyour interviews?
SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
It has, yeah.
So sometimes they are real gaps,um, and they have no excuses for
it, so they just kind of tellyou up front.
Uh, and sometimes they're not.
Um, sometimes they're moving outof state, so um, trying to get
into the new state and trying towork is something new to me.
SPEAKER_00 (46:34):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout the process now.
Like, for example, you have youknow the corporate office or
your your leadership team thatyou interface with, like, and
you have your regional managersand the leadership team there.
How how does that flow?
And maybe you guys can talkabout how that that works
involving the on-site team inthis process.
SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
Yeah, well, you know, what we what I do is I try
to be an asset to Peter.
Um, so what I'm doing is I'mgoing in, looking at the Picasso
hire candidates that we have,um, and just kind of self-s you
know, selecting the thecandidates and then reaching
back out to Peter to say, hey,did you happen to see, you know,
(47:14):
XYZ?
Did you see these people?
What are you thinking aboutthat?
And Peter's like, oh, you knowwhat?
I was just looking at those.
We go through the process ofwhen he's done interviewing, you
know, how did those interviewsgo?
Is this the right person for therole?
Just having more of an opendialogue, I think, to make sure
that we're continuing to movethrough the process of getting
(47:36):
that right candidate for therole.
SPEAKER_02 (47:38):
Yeah.
I like that you could put yoursteps and which step you're in.
So she could see that, I couldsee that, and I know where I'm
at with the person that I'mtalking to.
SPEAKER_00 (47:47):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
And you're not sending emailsback and forth, like all of it's
in the one system, right?
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (47:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Yeah.
How has that been for you to nothave to like have all these
downloaded things and likepapers printed everywhere?
And your time is precious.
SPEAKER_02 (48:02):
So it it cleared the clutter for sure.
Um, and less emails between meand Lisa because she could kind
of see what step I'm on.
She knows where I'm at, and soit's been it's been great.
Streamlined it a little biteasier.
SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
Yeah.
Any other final thoughts youguys want to share or Miles, if
you have anything?
SPEAKER_01 (48:21):
Sure.
Well, I was just gonna uh bringup I know um a couple months ago
uh is when we did the trainingfor uh the community managers.
So that was something that waspart of our partnership.
Was uh, you know, Lisa and theteam expressed that they wanted
their community managers uh tobe trained on Picasso Hire so
(48:41):
that you know this type ofdynamic can happen.
And so um that was somethingthat from a partnership
standpoint was I think wentreally well.
Um, you know, we had Liz on thethe call, we had Lisa, and they
kind of explained how this newsystem was going to work with
Picasso Hire in conjunction withthe older one.
Um I don't know if you guys wantto talk a little bit about that
(49:02):
transition moment, if you will,yeah and how that went.
SPEAKER_04 (49:05):
That's a good point.
I think one of the things that Ireally wanted to make sure in
that conversation we all had wasthat we talked about how the
product is a tool that we'reusing.
It's a tool that you know iscorrelating data for us, but
ultimately we're a humancompany.
So we're taking a tool toenhance our hiring process, but
(49:27):
we're using our personalintuition and our personal
skills to find the person.
So I think it's the best of bothworlds.
Taking information that's makingus more efficient and giving us
more information at ourfingertips to then use our own
personal skills and our ownpersonal intuition and our
(49:47):
understanding of that person andhow they're gonna fit into our
property.
So it's just a more well-roundedprocess, I think, um, with the
add of technology.
SPEAKER_00 (49:58):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
So one of the things that we'vebeen able to accomplish
internally is we through ourbeta program, we were able to
select who's committed tosolving this business challenge.
And we had a leadership team, wehave what we call the MVT
minimum viable team.
So that's the executivechampion, business process
owners, and you guys own thatprocess, right?
(50:19):
And the technical natives, inthis case, our team, to help
provide that tool and thataspect so you guys can make the
intelligent decisions.
And that's the one thing I wantthat I think is special around
this proof of a promise seriesis that because you've had
leadership and you have you knowsupported each other in the
roles from on-site to regionalto HR compliance, even, and then
(50:43):
the executive reasons for thistype of initiative in the
business, making the businessbetter in so many ways,
financially and and from anexperience standpoint, culture,
um, is to get that minimumviable team in place.
A lot of times, in ourexperience, uh, just in other
products and solutions that youthink about, we buy tools, but
the tool itself is not enough.
(51:03):
You need to have this alignmentand this um process uh all in
place.
So appreciate you guys beingpart of that.
And uh I know people willprobably have questions.
Uh, we'd love to uh invite youin to some of the other
innovative things we're doing,and we'll be spending some more
time in product innovation.
Great.
Um, but thank you for allowingus to build with you and and
(51:27):
make the business better.
SPEAKER_04 (51:29):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
Appreciate it.
All right, well, that's a wrap.
Uh, we'll see you guys in thenext episode.
Welcome back to the Multifamily Innovation Podcast.
My name is Patrick Antrim.
I'm the chairman of theMultifamily Innovation Council
and the Technology and AI Centerof Excellence.
I have here our director ofproduct and innovation, Miles
Maby, with us.
He'll be co-hosting thisconversation.
Today we're talking aboutrethinking centralization.
We're talking with leaders abouta journey to empower our
(00:23):
leadership teams.
And, you know, oftentimes wethink about centralization,
we're thinking about aprofitable business and we're
keyed into the word efficiency.
What's the easiest path forward?
Maybe automation, even AI.
But today we're talking about ahuman-centered, people-centered
approach to empowering teamsthroughout the organization.
(00:46):
It's a pretty interestingconversation.
We brought in Baron Properties,their leadership team, both what
we call an MVT, minimum viableteam.
This is the executive champion.
We have the business processowners, and we have the
technical natives here that wereable to transform an experience
(01:06):
for an organization that youknow essentially makes it more
productive, more profitable,more enjoyable to work at.
And so Baron Properties is oneof the nationally ranked best
places to work multifamilycompanies.
So they think a littledifferently about investing
internally in the business.
They're shifting from acentralized recruiting model to
a decentralized recruitingmodel.
(01:27):
And this was an effort toempower company structure, but
also empower people through thatprocess.
What they're using today andpart of this series is what
we're calling proof overpromise, which means this is
what happened.
So this is a look back of areal-world innovation, what made
a difference in an organizationand the teams that made that
(01:48):
happen.
So we'll be talking about usetheir ability to use Picasso
Hire, which is powered by NectarFlow.
Miles will be talking a lotabout that as well.
But it's again centered on ahuman-centered hiring decisions,
which is improving the candidatequality and the interview
confidence so we can select theright people.
And that is really what uh we'retalking about here on our Proof
(02:11):
of a Promise series.
So today, with the topicrethinking centralization, a
leader's journey to empower thefrontline.
It isn't always about efficiencyand centralization.
This is a real-world proofstory.
So we'll be talking today withLiz Schloss.
She's the chief operatingofficer at Baron Properties.
Today we also have Lori St.
(02:31):
Germain, she's the seniorregional property manager, and
Lisa Dryling, who is the humanresource director.
Uh awesome team that we've beenable to assemble here.
We have Miles Maby, our directdirector of product innovation
at Nectarflow.
We'll be talking with Miles aswell.
And Peter Astorga, who is theproperty manager for on-site
(02:52):
operations where the businesshappens, and we'll be showing
you uh that conversation livewith us.
So welcome in.
SPEAKER_05 (02:59):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Yeah, we have uh you guys are in Scottsdale, so it's
nice to have Baron come over tothe innovation lab and share the
time.
And that's I think where we allstarted this journey uh back at
the summit, and then now uh aconversation with Liz and uh
maybe we can start there.
Liz, um you were looking at ummaybe I know we talked about a
(03:21):
problem worth solving, but uhmaybe go into a little bit of
your vision of why you werethinking about this, why this
mattered to the businessobjectives and begin there.
SPEAKER_03 (03:32):
Well, you know, as a company, uh multifamily is
definitely increased in the sizeof you know units and um
throughout the nation.
And so with that, you get thechallenge of uh attracting the
right talent.
And um in today's world, you'vegot a little bit more of a
diluted talent pool, especiallywith the expansion of the
(03:52):
industry growth that we've had.
So our goal was to how do wefigure out the right person for
our company for this particularasset?
We don't want to blanket uh a uma job description for one
community manager because ahigh-class community, you know,
type A and an A location getting$5,000 rents, it's much
(04:15):
different than perhaps a moreaffordable or attainable.
And Barron does both of those.
So we were trying, we weresearching for something that
could help us differentiate thattalent pool and then also hire
the right people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, you know, the conversation around AI today is
interesting, it's a movingtarget in some sorts, and you
know, it's it's you know, thethe human experience becomes the
compet the last real competitiveadvantage and your ability to do
interesting things.
Um, talk to us a little bitabout um when you realized um
this was a problem we'resolving, like what what process,
(04:50):
what thinking process did you gothrough to actually get into
action?
SPEAKER_03 (04:55):
Well, I think it was more of a you know trying to
understand how AI could help usin this capacity.
And you know, one of the biggestthings that we struggled with
was we went through severalinterviewing processes with
several different people, andthe person would start, and then
after 30 days, we find out itwas a mismatch.
It just wasn't a good fit forthat particular role.
(05:18):
And so it was how can we utilizeAI with you know some sort of um
psychology, if you will, to comeand insert into this equation
and try and pinpoint some youknow thought-provoking questions
for our leaders to be able toget more out of them to get a
better quality uh employee.
SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
Yeah.
And you know, with before usingPicasso, like what did that look
like?
Um even in the interviewprocess, um, standardized
questions, like how were youthinking through that?
Um, I guess before we werestarted working with that.
SPEAKER_04 (05:52):
You know, and I think there wasn't a lot of uh
really standardization to that,but what we did have is our we
had an in-house recruiter thatwould manage the process from
the posting of the ad to thetaking in of the resumes and
ultimately then interviewing.
So I think it was really up toour recruiter and what his
(06:14):
thoughts were, which wereprobably fairly common questions
for the same role each and everytime.
And then he would pass on hisquality uh candidates on to the
properties themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And Miles, you've worked uhclearly with uh the team.
Talk to us a little bit aboutmoving through that challenge, I
guess.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Yeah, uh well, one of the challenges with that is
is there's one person that'skind of everything's gotta go
through.
Um that's that centralizedapproach.
That's a centralized approach.
And so um with Picasso Hire, uhthe candidates come in, um, you
know, it also handles theposting of the ad and those
types of things.
(06:57):
And so because things aredisplayed really nicely, I think
that really lends to opening itup and having more people being
able to have access to thecandidates that are in the
system so they can review it andlook at it.
Um you know, and you can getmore eyes on the same candidate,
and then more opinions can be uhformulated and put together to
lead to that selection piece.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:18):
And and to add on to that, so you had a centralized
person who was in a corporateoffice, that there was maybe a
little bit of a disconnectbetween what the personality was
at the asset or what the culturewas at the asset.
So he may be looking forsomething that he might think is
a good candidate, but it may notfit that culture at that
particular asset.
Exactly.
(07:38):
So the standardizedcentralization, we thought, God,
you know, can we get can we dobetter?
I think we can do better.
And so that's why we the thatyour product was so um
intriguing.
And so, you know, we just said,why not?
Let's try it, and it's ended upended up to be great.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
Yeah, so and that brings up a good point.
I mean, this goes to leasing aswell, but is that you have
different investment objectivesat each asset too.
So having a centralized personfar from that, maybe not even in
that role, specifically knowinglike what is materially needed.
Were there any bottlenecks withthe old way that you you found
(08:15):
were unlocked by moving to thisnew process?
SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
You know, I think one of the biggest challenges we
had is just the number ofresumes that we get.
Yeah.
And just going through, I mean,um, our in-house recruiter going
through those resumes, it was sotime consuming.
SPEAKER_05 (08:31):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (08:32):
And that's one of the things that we've really
enjoyed with Picasso Hire, isjust that really the efficiency
of the product um has helpedimmeasurably.
Um, because a lot of thoseresumes are not resumes that we
necessarily wanted to spend timewith, but it was taking us so
much time.
I mean, often we had hundreds,two to three hundred resumes for
(08:56):
a position within a week.
And so that takes up a lot oftime.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Yeah.
And it's interesting, it's notjust a company problem, this is
an industry problem because uh,and even outside of multifamily,
is that because of thatoverwhelm from an admin
standpoint, and the way thattechnology has been built to
solve for um selecting the rightpeople has been in a centralized
program.
You can't buy an applicanttracking system for every
(09:22):
property.
And so you end up with thiscentralized view, and it and
then then the I guess therecruiting manager gets
overwhelmed and they don'tfollow up with everybody, so
then everybody that's applying,they just keep applying to
everything, and it overwhelmsthe system.
And uh so that's it's uh what wecall the candidate experience,
is um at least we're able to,you know, can s sift through
(09:45):
those resumes faster.
And was it seven seconds theyspend on average on a human uh
and looking at a resume?
And it's like, well, who did wemiss?
SPEAKER_03 (09:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:55):
Not always, you know, who's not in there, but
like who did we miss?
SPEAKER_03 (09:59):
Or sometimes it would take too long for us to
get back to that candidate andthey'd already accepted a
position somewhere else.
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
So yeah, they're happy to hear back from
somebody, right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (10:08):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Um so uh you were working withum an applicant tracking system
currently.
So was it did it feel like um achange management initiative, or
was it how did you think throughfrom a leadership team?
And maybe you guys can talk likehow you interface together about
(10:30):
that.
Um was everybody excited at thebeginning or not?
Or was it like I know Liz, youwere a champion.
Sorry.
So certainly how important isthat?
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Certainly a champion.
And I I do believe that anytimeyou adopt technology AI into a
business that from the very topdown there has to be buy-in.
Um and if there isn't, it wassimply will not work.
Um so it doesn't mean thateveryone has to have buy-in, but
the executive leadershipabsolutely has um must have
(11:00):
that.
And I was fortunate enough tohave my partners in in our
business who believed in what wewere doing.
And so um I do think that therewere um the change management is
probably the most difficultwithin any corporation with
technology.
Um, but I think if you approachit in the right way, um, I think
(11:21):
that it will that that's the keyis to make sure that you're
hitting, you're you'reapproaching it in the right way,
that you you have measurablegoals and outcomes that you want
to achieve.
Um, and then the partnership ishugely important.
So I know Lisa's, we wouldn't,we talk about it all the time
about the partnership and howspecial that has been with you
guys.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Yeah.
Well, let's talk about that.
Miles, like uh what we did uh aspart of this, and and you guys
know this, is we ran a betaprogram, and we had about 87
people.
And I think you reached out,Lori.
Was it?
SPEAKER_05 (11:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
And uh we were talking about other things, and
we ended up like, what's thebiggest problem we're solving?
And you said, well, we need tomeet our COO, and we met Liz.
And so in that beta program, wegrouped them because we had an
we had almost 87 people sign upfor that, and we knew we wanted
to sort of what we call obsesson our first you know, hundred
(12:16):
to really build with theminstead of going to market,
like, hey, we built thissoftware, buy it, make it work
for you.
It's like, how do we worktogether to figure out what's
the real problem we're solving?
How do we get that alignment sothen uh executives and stay
excited about that initiative?
And then how do we involveeverybody in the process from
on-site?
(12:36):
You know, we're gonna be talkingabout that with Peter today, and
then you know, with your yourneeds, compliance, you have
other things that are going on,current technology you're using.
Um, and so that was ourinitiative.
And I think you came in excited,and I was like, we're gonna do,
we're gonna slow down actually.
Like I would have loved to sellyou all kinds of stuff, right?
But we're like, let's justcrawl, walk, run here, let's get
(12:59):
this right and establishconfidence and let the teams
experience some.
So, Miles, let's talk about thata little bit.
Um, and maybe you guys can sharemore.
I I don't know much about whatyour experience was, but uh
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:11):
Well, I mean, the way that our system had been set
up is we work with an HRISsystem, and so we were utilizing
that HRIS system to feed our umour, in this case it was uh
LinkedIn or Indeed.
SPEAKER_05 (13:24):
Yeah, the ads and all that.
SPEAKER_04 (13:25):
Exactly.
And then it would um movethrough that process and back
into the onboarding piece.
And so it was really uh acomplete flip for us because we
had to move in a differentdirection.
The way that the our HRIS systemwas working didn't really allow
for us to work in tandem withPicasso Hires.
So um Miles was integral inmaking sure that we were able to
(13:51):
get the system to the systemsthat we needed to talk to one
another.
And you know, and it took us alittle bit of time.
We worked through somechallenges, um, but ultimately
coming up with a product thatreally is providing us um a very
fast, it's a very fast processfor us to get the candidate
(14:11):
information, for our managers toget that information, and for us
to be able to self-select.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Sure, sure.
And maybe Liz or you know, Laurawill talk to us a little bit
about how important thatpartnership is, like in terms of
um making sure success isincreased.
SPEAKER_06 (14:30):
Sure.
So the the partnership is reallyimportant.
Um, what I've noticed,particularly with Miles, is that
if we've got a question or oh,how do we handle this or oh I
wish it did this, we reach outand he makes it happen.
So I have 100% confidence.
All I have to do is shoot off anemail.
It'll be done in about twohours.
(14:51):
Um and we're we're kind ofimproving the system together.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Yeah.
How does that feel?
Is that is that um you thinkthat's an I mean, obviously
important, but uh is itinformative, educational?
Like uh do you feel like you'remore empowered with that process
or is it just like relief to theI think the whole process is um
it's it's putting it into theright hands where it needs to
(15:16):
be.
SPEAKER_06 (15:17):
I need to see those candidates.
And and like Lisa wasmentioning, um easily we get a
hundred applications.
SPEAKER_05 (15:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (15:24):
Normally our normal process is gonna be, hey, we're
gonna look at this one.
Nope, okay, this one is a maybe,maybe, maybe.
And then we're going through ourmaybe pile and we're like, nope,
maybe, maybe.
Um the process is so much fasterbecause it's already kind of
picked up some key things.
Um, and if we this is anotherpart I love, if we aren't
getting the right candidates, wecan change something in our job
(15:44):
description.
I know we're gonna talk aboutthe job description part um to
get the right candidates.
So uh really interesting that itwe couldn't have done it without
that partnership.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
And Liz, we needed to make sure this went well for
you.
I mean, you were you weretrying, uh you want you knew you
had a path and a vision for abetter way forward.
And um there had to be.
SPEAKER_03 (16:07):
There had to be a way.
And I do believe in technologyand I do believe in innovation.
And so being able, I I getexcited about that to be able to
come into an industry where it'svery antiquated when it comes to
technology, the real estateworld.
Um, but we're starting to getthere and to add little bits and
pieces to our world.
And you know, the human capitalpiece is such a precious
(16:27):
resource that we hold sacred atour company.
And so to be able to have a tooland a partner to help us find
that precious resource that wewant to have for a long time,
um, that's valuable for us.
Um, and so that, you know, Ithink the the platform that
(16:50):
we've entered into, I stillthink is in the infancy stage.
Um, I still think we can gofurther with trying to attract,
you know, even you know, justmore ideas, you know, for what
we need.
And I think that's just a in youknow, future, future years to
come where the the enhancementsof this will be pretty
empowering.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And how did you feel thealignment improved?
Um now regionals are more activein the selection process.
Is that getting closer to theasset?
Is that our managers now?
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
Yeah, so one of the things that was very important
to us is that we still wantedthat human interaction.
We did not want technology beingthe face for Baron because we
are a people business, we're atransactional business, but we
do want to use technology as apartner um in order to make
decisions.
And how fun was it to uh, andwe'll talk to Peter a little bit
(17:43):
later, but one of our umcandidates utilized the AI bot
to interview him, and how funthat that was to explain to him
what we're we're you know,testing and let us know your
feedback.
And um, so that's how you getbuy-in is to continue to
experience what that is and tohelp improve it too.
Sure.
(18:03):
I mean, we talked about takingthe um speed up, you know, the
conversation, slow theconversation down.
This is what we want the we wantthe bot to preface this, you
know, prior to the, you know, umto the conversation, really
making it clear that we would beultimately making the decision
the human would be, but it itcomes with a partnership um with
(18:26):
technology.
SPEAKER_00 (18:27):
Yeah, you know, we that's the name of the the
company.
I mean, Picasso, and and and Ithink you guys know this uh for
the viewers and listeners, um,we we looked at the resume, and
the resume is sort of comes inas like a stick figure.
It doesn't really tell us awhole lot about the person,
their competencies, the successfactors, the things that are
going to lead to actualperformance at work.
(18:48):
And so when we talked about thename Picasso came up, like we
just want to give you betterdecision intelligence to choose
and select and give you a fullpicture, full colorful because
humans are full range, they haveunique abilities, they have uh
just things that sometimes theyjust need to express themselves
(19:09):
even outside that resume.
And um, you know, using the AIvoice technology allows us at
the front end, I think, to getthe improv the selection better
for you to have something to gooff of to have productive
interviews and things like that.
And I think that's in thenuances of that competency.
We talked about jobdescriptions, like um not
(19:31):
rushing that process, gettingthat right, uh, and that
competency, right, that thattalks about the behaviors and
then the success factors.
Um, that plays out in improvingour model.
So this is where your team hasan intimate understanding of the
business, of the location,what's useful, what does it
need, what are the priorities,and who do we need to to come
(19:54):
into this equation?
And if that gets into the model,now this is this is something no
other HRS system would havebecause you're you're kind of
creating your own train AI modelfor every job role, you know.
And um, how has that been interms of getting the
competencies and getting thatinto the model?
SPEAKER_06 (20:14):
Is that Liz set up all of the different job
descriptions for the differentsites?
Um did a really good job.
We had to tweak a little bit.
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (20:23):
Thank you, Lisa.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
And you're co-hosting, so whatever you jump
in.
I don't want to dominate the Ijust totally forgot what I'm
talking about.
Um we're talking about the jobcompetencies, uh descriptions.
SPEAKER_06 (20:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yep.
SPEAKER_06 (20:34):
Okay, so um with the with each each posting is its
own, basically.
It's not a blanket, it's uniqueto that property.
Um, and I I do like that.
And what we have seen is thatone candidate might apply to
more than one job and be rankeddifferently.
So it's really about that jobdescription and how they um
(20:56):
match up with what that propertyneeds.
So that is the one thing that wehaven't been able to do before.
Um, so that's really excitingfor us.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
And I I think too that the managers also have
additional confidence now inthey have so much information
about these candidates to beable to look in and really, you
know, where it's really breakingthat resume down to determine
the skill set of the individual,I think gives the manager
confidence in their nextinterview that they're going to
(21:29):
be having.
Plus, the interviewingquestions, I think, has just
created a real positiveexperience for our managers to
take that next step in findingthe right candidate, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
Yeah.
And they don't have time to comeup with those questions.
I mean, you want them leasing,right?
I mean, you want them takingcare of residents.
SPEAKER_03 (21:46):
And you want the questions tailored to what that
residence resonance resumeportrays.
And so what I thought was so umunique about the the program is
that not every question was thesame.
If you looked at, if you startedreally studying them, they were
different based off of theresume.
And then once you get theprofile after the AI interview,
(22:09):
then it even gets more robust.
Um, and so those questions youcan dig in a little bit deeper.
So maybe you have two or threecandidates that you're really
you just don't know which one tochoose.
That AI lat that last interviewcomponent will allow us to do
that last interview and answersome questions that we may not
have known to think of, butwould definitely make the make
(22:31):
it easier, uh, the decisioneasier to make.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
So and I think this this highlights one of the
advantages and power ofgenerative AI is this
individualization of things likethe questions or the
conversations that you know it'dbe hard to do that for every
single candidate, for one of youguys to to sit down and write
those types of questions.
(22:55):
You'd run out at a certain pointand start reusing questions or
something like that.
So the great thing, uh, and thisis where this new technology
that is relatively recent,combined with the um automation
of the ATS type where we keepall the organized the resumes
organized and everything,combining what information we
get from the candidate and whatwe can do with generative AI,
(23:18):
creates a much fuller pictureand that report that has the
questions and the skills and allthat for you guys to have all
that information on every singlecandidate.
SPEAKER_04 (23:27):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah.
Talk to me about the assessmentitself.
Like, how's that been different?
You've you're what our visionwas typically when you hire a
high-level position, like a CEOposition, it goes through a full
range of this type of analysis.
And then, but the problem withthat is you're paying a 30% fee
(23:48):
to a recruiting agency to do allthat hard work and and to do
that.
And so we've been able to dothat on every applicant for you,
technically, in that assessment.
That would be like apresentation, like, here's what
you have, by the way, these thisis where we need to lean in.
This may be a red flag here, uh,ask these questions, get clarity
on this.
How has that report or theassessment been uh useful in in
(24:10):
crafting and managing theseconversations with potential
candidates?
SPEAKER_04 (24:15):
Well, you know, we use the we use that the AI
assessment after we've had ourum in-face, our person-to-person
interviews, because we wanted tomake sure, because we are a
company that's concerned aboutour employees, and we wanted to
make sure that it also was a funcomponent.
That this was something that weadded that wasn't laborious or
(24:36):
you know difficult.
It was actually going to beinteresting and informative.
And um, so we've tried to makeit a fun ad to our candidates,
and I think that they havepicked up on that.
Um, and then getting theinformation where we're learning
more, like kind of aMyers-Briggs style personality
(24:56):
test.
We're learning more about thatperson and how they're gonna fit
into their team.
And really to Liz's point, youknow, we were talking about each
property has its own culture, ithas its own feel.
And so this is where the managercan really take that information
and really drill down to say,you know what, this is a
personality and a person that'sgonna be a great fit for us.
(25:18):
So, you know, to Liz's pointwhere we have maybe two or three
different candidates, we canreally pick the right candidate
for the role.
And ultimately, we believe thatthat's going to give us a higher
quality candidate, a candidatethat's going to stay with us
longer because they enjoy theirjob and they're a good fit.
So we're helping them also inthat fit process.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Right, right.
It leads to culture andeverything.
Were there moments where you youdoubted things?
Like you didn't think like earlyon, we're like, oh, will this
even work?
SPEAKER_04 (25:47):
Or you know, I know I did.
Um I I was That's your job too,though.
It is.
I'm a natural skeptic.
SPEAKER_03 (25:54):
I am a natural skeptic.
So call it the Valley ofDespair.
Yes, you go down and you're justlike, just wait and just wait.
And then as soon as we get abovethat threshold, we're there.
And um, so yes, we had we didhave some Valley of Despair
conversations.
We did.
SPEAKER_04 (26:11):
We did, yeah.
Um, but what I think Well, howdid you push through those?
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Let's get into that.
Because that if if you if youretreated, you wouldn't have
benefited from all this impact,right?
Financially experienced companyculture, all that stuff, right?
Like driving the businessforward.
So, like when you are in themoment, you're trying maybe
something new or different, andthere was a moment of doubt,
instead of quitting orretreating, you guys pushed
through.
(26:34):
So, what was what was that like?
SPEAKER_04 (26:37):
Truly super miles.
Yeah, it is super miles.
Um, I think that our product isso custom to what we needed that
when we did have a moment wherewe said, I don't know if this is
gonna work, being able to comeback and the partnership that we
had with Miles to say, Miles, Idon't know, this doesn't seem
(27:00):
like it's working right, was themoment when Miles, who always
has a smile on his face, by theway, would say, Lisa, here's
what we can do.
Um, there were even situationswhere I think Lori had reached
out to me and said, Hey, Lisa,I'm really struggling with
we're, you know, we're gettingthese interviews set up, but
then when we're ready to speakto the person, sometimes the
(27:21):
candidate isn't showing up.
And so I was like, gosh, we'vegot to remember a way.
We need to come up with a way tobe representing this so that we
know that when that personinterviews again, that okay,
they don't show up for theirinterviews.
This isn't the candidate wewant.
And so I reached out to Miles,asked the question, and Miles
said, Hey Lisa, give me about 30minutes.
(27:43):
I'm gonna I'm gonna go work onsomething.
Let me get you on the phone andwe'll we'll talk through it.
So I was like, sure, he's gotstuff going on.
So in about 30 minutes, we geton the phone, and I said, Okay,
so Miles, here's the situation.
He goes, Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
So I did it.
I fixed Walready for you.
He had already found thesolution, implemented it for us,
and given us the the outcomethat we needed.
(28:06):
And it's things like that thatmade those moments, those low
moments made us made us realize.
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
Yeah, yeah.
And from a partnership to fromthe other side of the pond, if
you will, um, even though we'rereally in the same boat, um, you
know, you guys were very vocalin letting me know what where
how you were feeling.
You know, sometimes uh you youjust have a customer, they don't
you don't interact with themvery much, and then they cancel
out of the blue, and you'relike, you don't know why.
Um, and so what's really beengreat is that partnership in the
(28:36):
communication back and forth.
Um, I know Lisa, we haveexchanged I don't know how many
emails about stuff, you know,questions, comments, concerns,
and and I love that feedback,you know, to know, okay, let's
tweak this, let's change this.
This isn't working for them.
They need this, you know.
That's the important thing forme as is for the product and
innovation to push it forward isthat feedback loop.
(29:00):
And so even when you were in themiddle of despair, um, as you
say, being able to communicatebetween the two of us, that
communication level was soimportant for me to be able to
be there to help.
Um, because when the customer'sdespairing, I also feel despair,
you know.
Um and we worked through quite afew different things, two
different integrations, indeed,and another one, you know, to
(29:22):
get our software up to uhfunctioning in this nice flow
that reached that efficiency.
Right.
Um and you guys were extremelyhelpful in walking us through uh
those integrations, giving usaccess to be able to test
things, um, to make sureeverything was as robust as
possible.
Uh and so you know, from thepartnership, the communication
and the mutual benefishing isthis you know what made that
(29:44):
work and helped us get to thepoint we are now.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And and you had so you had theline resources to do that, but
one of the things and you're nottalking to someone in sales,
it's he's leading up product.
So that's one of the I think thebenefits of working with Nectar.
Flow and even under the PicassoHigher product is like um you're
not it used to be we boughtsoftware that was built for
(30:07):
everyone and now we're buildingwith you a solution to solve a
business problem, not sell asoftware.
SPEAKER_03 (30:13):
That's the game changer.
That is the game changer.
You know, you even with weutilize in Toronto for our
software program, and absolutelywonderful.
We love them as partnership, butit's their software.
And to be able to accommodateour needs is not necessarily
what that they're there to do.
Um, and so that is why I thinkthis is such a unique
partnership, is because it is sotailored to um to customer, if
(30:39):
you will, and what we're whatwe're really wanting and trying
to achieve.
SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
Yeah, and I think that's that's important to get
that.
You talked a lot about thealignment and things like that,
to be able to have that businessgoal and and to be able to, you
know, we want we want thebusiness outcome.
We don't necessarily want thetool, right?
We and and if we know what thebusiness outcome is, we can
apply decisions, what softwarecan solve that to make the
(31:04):
problem go away or create thisnew future you want.
And and uh I'm I I get a lot ofuh satisfaction knowing like
you've led such a great processthere.
I I really appreciate that.
And it it's not it's you needthe customer commitment too.
So I think a lot of people inmultifamily say that hiring is a
problem, but they haven'tapproached it the way you have.
(31:27):
They're just advertising andthey're they're not think
stopping to think about how bigthis problem is impacting their
business.
I mean, you think about one renta week over a course of a week
or a year at one property, thefinancial impact by not getting
this right is substantial.
So I commend your leadership onthat.
SPEAKER_03 (31:47):
And and I you I talk to my peers about it all the
time.
It's one of the number oneproblems is staff recruitment
and then staff retention for youknow the talent talent.
And to get the right person, Ithink is in step number one
because if you've hired thewrong person, you're not going
to retain them.
SPEAKER_05 (32:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (32:05):
Um, if it's not a good fit, chances are the
retention's not going to bethere.
So let's let's start off withstep one in the right direction,
and then we have a better chanceof that retention.
I think it's still too like soonto tell whether or not, you
know, we're gonna we haven'teven approached a year now, but
yeah, but it I do think that asLisa, when I asked her at the
(32:27):
very end, the comment, I said,Do are you happy with what you
know Pelaso has to offer?
And she said, we are gettingbetter quality can candidates
faster.
And that that's just you knowone, you know, one of the pieces
to the puzzle of hiring a greatum uh candidate or employee, but
(32:49):
that is from a monetarystandpoint, that's huge from um
from my chair.
SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Yeah, let's lean into more of that.
You're an executive, you havefinancial penal responsibility
over the organization, whereinvestments are placed and
prioritized.
Um how did that shake out foryou?
Like um, I know that you youwent from centralized to
decentralized ROI standpoint,like where where are we on that
metric?
SPEAKER_03 (33:12):
I think it's too I think it's too early to tell
right now, um, but I do knowthat we're going in the right
direction.
Uh, I do know, you know, it wasnot the idea to replace a
position, but this platform hasreplaced um our recruiter.
Um, it doesn't mean that thereare things that are needed.
Lisa's taken on some additionalresponsibilities, but we're also
utilized utilizing sometechnology in other areas of her
(33:36):
world that are allowing her towhat I say, instead of doing
four things, she's managingeight because of technology.
So that that is really the goalwithin you know each of our
positions, leadership positions,is to to get that, not to take
positions, but to get a littlebit more bandwidth, and we just
need to do it differently thanwhat we used to, what we how we
(33:59):
used to operate.
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
Yeah, so you had the centralized one recruiter, that
role changed.
Now you have your regionaloperations, even your on-site
managers, property managers,better at recruiting.
Like tell me how that has madeturned them into recruiters
essentially.
SPEAKER_06 (34:14):
Well, Peter, who we'll be talking to, was
actually the first one that didthe AI interview for us.
So he's kind of walked throughthe whole thing, and I don't
want to take from hisexperience, but uh we'll yeah,
we'll we'll ask him for for sureabout that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
Yeah.
But I mean, are you getting isthat has that been an
improvement to have more uh Iguess closer to the operations?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (34:35):
You know, I think one of the pieces that we
haven't talked about is it talksa little bit about what
motivates the person.
And that's really key becausethere's the baron, and like that
that is our culture, and thenthere's the site that we have to
also match up to.
SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
So yeah.
Um, I I have a question hereabout like what advice.
So there's a lot of people aregonna listen to this, watch
this.
Um, they're leading national,regional portfolios.
Uh, you guys have a lot ofreally great assets already
underway.
Um, what advice would you giveto other multifamily leaders
(35:10):
that are considering thinkingabout either using Picasso or
even um solving this businesschallenge?
Any any reflections on that?
Any one of you can share on thatone?
SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
Well, I think, you know, I I had said it earlier on
in the conversation is to adoptsomething like this, you will
need a foundation of support.
Um, and so having that is numberone is everyone has to have
buy-in from an executiveleadership style.
And then the appropriateindividual and the appropriate
processes in order to implementthat change because of the
(35:46):
change management, more so onthe people side, that's very
difficult for some people.
So, whatever you do, um that'swhat I've learned in the short
time that we've started toimplement that we've started to
implement more technology intoour business, how how important
it is to have a plan and whatthat looks like, and the proper
communication uh and the styleof communication to certain
(36:10):
audiences.
Um you can talk to me all daylong about it, I get excited,
but if you go to a differentpersonality, it's fear.
Um, or am I going to lose myjob?
Or it it's um so you you'vereally got to tater to you've
got to uh tailor your yourcommunication to the appropriate
audience, if you will.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And uh in your role, what areyou most proud of with this
process?
SPEAKER_04 (36:38):
You know, I think um, you know, to Liz's point
that she uh, you know, she hadmentioned, you know, getting a
better quality candidate moreefficiently, I think it's really
exciting to see our managersgetting excited.
Um I I can't tell you, I mean,it really, it really makes me
happy to hear from my managersaying, hey, guess what?
(37:00):
I just met this great person andthey're gonna be a great fit for
our role, you know, and justseeing their enthusiasm and
their excitement for their newcandidate versus having somebody
more like, you know, handed tothem and they go, oh, okay,
there's a choice.
Work with them, make it work.
And one of the things that wewere hearing at the corporate
(37:21):
office was they were saying,well, our candidates are not a
good fit.
Um, we were hearing that therewas a disconnect, and we're
like, where's this disconnectcoming from?
We think we've got these greatcandidates that we're sending to
you.
But our employees and ourmanagers are saying, you know
what, I found the rightcandidate.
I've looked at all of thesepeople, and their enthusiasm to
(37:42):
me says we made the rightdecision.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Elevating, that's theempowerment piece.
SPEAKER_04 (37:47):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
You know, where uh and then they can grow and scale
whatever whatever visions youhave for the for those roles.
Anything else that you wanted toshare?
SPEAKER_06 (37:56):
Or I guess the only thing we talked a little bit
about about the cost savings,like as we did our budgets this
year, yeah, it's less expensivefor us.
Yeah.
In the most part, there was ahandful of few that it's gonna
be a little more depending onthe size of the property.
But yeah, so uh it was a abenefit in that way as well, a
real win-win.
(38:16):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
And then Liz, going back to you, like how does it
feel being I mean, it's neverdone.
I always tell Miles or we alwayslaugh because we'll talk about
ready versus done.
It's never done, it's just readyfor the next version, the next
it's like our iPhones, right?
Like they're just constantlyinnovating, and we want to
continually have interface withyou guys as we build the
(38:38):
business uh to um continuallyinnovate and make make the
product better as as ourbusinesses evolve as well.
Um, knowing what you'veaccomplished in such a short
time, how does that deliverconfidence for your stakeholders
and and how does that make youfeel as a leader in that
process?
SPEAKER_03 (38:56):
Well, I think that we're moving in the right
direction.
I've got my next set ofquestions and challenges for you
guys.
So we what I always try and say,we talk about it, let's break
the system.
Try and break it with justpushing it as hard as we can
push it.
And I think that you guys havebeen great with that.
Um I do, I do know that there'sbuy-in.
I know that they're um, and I amI'm even more excited, probably
(39:20):
next year at this time, we'llhave a really good understanding
from a retention standpoint andwhat we've been able to
accomplish.
Obviously, that there's the theuh the the areas that are
probably they're not able we'renot able to measure as as it
relates to true performance.
Um, you know, but um theretention, the turnover, um, the
(39:43):
satisfaction that we're startingto see from our own employees
when we complete those residentum excuse me, those employee
satisfaction surveys, I thinkthat will speak volumes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
So what's on the roadmap for Barron?
What are you guys excited aboutnow that you're I mean, moving
forward in new directions andlike what what's exciting?
What's next?
SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
I think we're looking for you to guys to tell
us what what do you have next toyou know venture into?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Well, this has been exciting.
I I uh I have uh I want to do gointo our next segment.
We're gonna talk more at thelocation, more at the property,
on how this essentially getsdown and gets alignment between
corporate initiatives, financialgovernance, compliance, vision
for a better hiring and companyculture.
(40:30):
We talked a lot about um theimpact to the decision
intelligence and all that stuff.
But now let's get into theconversation with Peter and get
into like how it's impacted hisworld from his point of view,
because that's ultimately whatwe're all building is this
business to support the fieldthe closest to the customer that
we can impact.
We can drive yield, protectyield in the business, and uh
(40:54):
we'll have that thatconversation with Peter.
Any final remarks that you wantto leave with or any any any
final thoughts?
SPEAKER_03 (41:02):
I just want to thank you guys for an incredible
partnership.
Um, it's been great since dayone.
Um we've we've certainlymeandered through a lot of peaks
and valleys over the last youknow six to eight months.
So it's been and thank you forallowing us to to join you today
on your podcast.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (41:20):
It's been great to have you guys on.
And so we'll cut right here fora break, and we'll be right back
with Peter.
All right, welcome back.
We're here with Peter Storga.
He's the property manager forBaron, and this is all about
rethinking centralization andempowering leadership teams,
even on the front lines.
So, Peter, welcome in.
Thank you.
It's great to have you here.
(41:42):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, have you been on a podcastbefore?
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
I have not.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
Okay, all right.
Well, now you have.
And uh, you know, one of thethings that we do with these
conversations is we're talking alittle bit about more proof of
our promise.
Uh, you know, especially as anon-site manager, I mean, we've
lived your world, we canappreciate that that's where the
value is created.
Um, you're you're a mayor of acity, basically, there, and
(42:05):
you're taking care of a hightask, what I call high task and
high relationship.
But you're running a hundredmillion dollar asset, probably,
right?
And and sometimes we don't uhappreciate that because we get
lost in the activities, they areso high, the pressures are so
high, we've got to turn around aproperty, lease it up, got
collections, you got all thesethings that we're doing.
And at the end of that day, um,people are the most important
(42:29):
asset, and behind every successand failure is a person.
And I wanted to get yourperspective of how you've been
able to think through selectingyour teams or going through that
process and uh get someperspectives maybe from your
point of view, um, what that'sbeen like.
So, uh how has been working withPicasso been different for the
(42:49):
way that you've typicallyapproached hiring new people?
SPEAKER_02 (42:53):
Uh so it's very new to me.
I'm very old school where yougrab a stack of papers and you
kind of have to go througheverything and try to weed out
the ones that aren't a good fit.
Um, but it's very black andwhite.
Picasso Hire has streamlined itso well that it's like having
your personal assistant tellingyou this is a good candidate.
This is not, this is, you know,this is there have gaps here,
(43:14):
asking questions about this.
Um and it streams streamlines itso easy for me.
Um it makes my job so mucheasier.
SPEAKER_00 (43:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And so um how does that feellike knowing like you're more
prepared for that interview?
I mean, at some point you wereinterviewing, right?
And you know, the process can beintimidating, right?
So as a candidate, you know,when you're coming to that
meeting as a property manager,you're there face to face with
the interview.
Um, I'm sure that has adifferent feel now that you have
(43:45):
sort of this appearance ofyou've done all this investment
in them to really understand andconnect.
What is what is how is thatplayed out at all?
SPEAKER_02 (43:54):
Yeah, personalizing the questions to the candidate
is um I know it empowered me.
Um I think they feel it as wellbecause it's not like, hey, I'm
gonna ask you generalizedquestions, it's more of hey, I
seen your resume.
I've seen that you're good atthis, this, or this.
Um, can you elaborate a littlebit more?
So personalized questions toeach candidate is amazing for
me.
SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
Yeah.
Now, did I hear that right?
Did you come in through Picassoas a I did?
So you were hired through this.
Okay, I didn't know that.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (44:21):
Yeah, so that's great.
They had me go through theprocess.
Okay.
I thought it was a little clunkyat first because I was like,
Well, I'm talking to a robot.
Um, but as the interview went onand it started asking me
personalized questions, I waslike, oh, this is it's learning
as I'm talking.
So um that was pretty, prettyfun.
SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and how are you um how doyou feel as a leader?
Like, do you feel like you'regrowing in your career?
You're getting better at thatprocess.
I mean, ultimately, I know asyou're building teams, um, your
ability to build a great team isis really what makes you grow in
this career.
And do you feel like you'regetting um more intelligence on
(44:58):
that?
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Oh yeah, um, asking the right questions.
Um ultimately it comes down topersonality.
Um, I know you have five greatcandidates, but how they act,
react, um, face to face reallymakes a difference.
SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Yeah, yeah.
And uh and feel free to jump in.
I don't want to dominate thehost here.
Um what uh what are what aresome of the things that you're
hearing in those interviews?
Are are are people coming lessprepared for those types of
questions?
Like the standard questions,these are different questions,
or I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Um, like you guys said mentioned earlier, um, it
does get kind of repetitive andit's kind of a blanket statement
or a blanket interview.
Uh now it has become more ofeach individual person.
Um I think.
SPEAKER_06 (45:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Yes.
Yeah.
Um and it's yeah, it's it's beengreat.
Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
I know a lot of the questions that are written, uh,
some of the goals of thequestion is to just uncover the
gap between the resume, what'spresented in the resume, and the
job, description, competency,success factors.
Uh, and that's a huge goal thatwe have written in those
questions is to come up to findthose gaps, because they may be
gaps, they may not be gaps.
Um, have you had experience withlike asking those questions and
(46:12):
being like, wow, they really dohave a gap or they really don't
have that gap?
Has that um played out throughyour interviews?
SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
It has, yeah.
So sometimes they are real gaps,um, and they have no excuses for
it, so they just kind of tellyou up front.
Uh, and sometimes they're not.
Um, sometimes they're moving outof state, so um, trying to get
into the new state and trying towork is something new to me.
SPEAKER_00 (46:34):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout the process now.
Like, for example, you have youknow the corporate office or
your your leadership team thatyou interface with, like, and
you have your regional managersand the leadership team there.
How how does that flow?
And maybe you guys can talkabout how that that works
involving the on-site team inthis process.
SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
Yeah, well, you know, what we what I do is I try
to be an asset to Peter.
Um, so what I'm doing is I'mgoing in, looking at the Picasso
hire candidates that we have,um, and just kind of self-s you
know, selecting the thecandidates and then reaching
back out to Peter to say, hey,did you happen to see, you know,
(47:14):
XYZ?
Did you see these people?
What are you thinking aboutthat?
And Peter's like, oh, you knowwhat?
I was just looking at those.
We go through the process ofwhen he's done interviewing, you
know, how did those interviewsgo?
Is this the right person for therole?
Just having more of an opendialogue, I think, to make sure
that we're continuing to movethrough the process of getting
(47:36):
that right candidate for therole.
SPEAKER_02 (47:38):
Yeah.
I like that you could put yoursteps and which step you're in.
So she could see that, I couldsee that, and I know where I'm
at with the person that I'mtalking to.
SPEAKER_00 (47:47):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
And you're not sending emailsback and forth, like all of it's
in the one system, right?
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (47:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Yeah.
How has that been for you to nothave to like have all these
downloaded things and likepapers printed everywhere?
And your time is precious.
SPEAKER_02 (48:02):
So it it cleared the clutter for sure.
Um, and less emails between meand Lisa because she could kind
of see what step I'm on.
She knows where I'm at, and soit's been it's been great.
Streamlined it a little biteasier.
SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
Yeah.
Any other final thoughts youguys want to share or Miles, if
you have anything?
SPEAKER_01 (48:21):
Sure.
Well, I was just gonna uh bringup I know um a couple months ago
uh is when we did the trainingfor uh the community managers.
So that was something that waspart of our partnership.
Was uh, you know, Lisa and theteam expressed that they wanted
their community managers uh tobe trained on Picasso Hire so
(48:41):
that you know this type ofdynamic can happen.
And so um that was somethingthat from a partnership
standpoint was I think wentreally well.
Um, you know, we had Liz on thethe call, we had Lisa, and they
kind of explained how this newsystem was going to work with
Picasso Hire in conjunction withthe older one.
Um I don't know if you guys wantto talk a little bit about that
(49:02):
transition moment, if you will,yeah and how that went.
SPEAKER_04 (49:05):
That's a good point.
I think one of the things that Ireally wanted to make sure in
that conversation we all had wasthat we talked about how the
product is a tool that we'reusing.
It's a tool that you know iscorrelating data for us, but
ultimately we're a humancompany.
So we're taking a tool toenhance our hiring process, but
(49:27):
we're using our personalintuition and our personal
skills to find the person.
So I think it's the best of bothworlds.
Taking information that's makingus more efficient and giving us
more information at ourfingertips to then use our own
personal skills and our ownpersonal intuition and our
(49:47):
understanding of that person andhow they're gonna fit into our
property.
So it's just a more well-roundedprocess, I think, um, with the
add of technology.
SPEAKER_00 (49:58):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
So one of the things that we'vebeen able to accomplish
internally is we through ourbeta program, we were able to
select who's committed tosolving this business challenge.
And we had a leadership team, wehave what we call the MVT
minimum viable team.
So that's the executivechampion, business process
owners, and you guys own thatprocess, right?
(50:19):
And the technical natives, inthis case, our team, to help
provide that tool and thataspect so you guys can make the
intelligent decisions.
And that's the one thing I wantthat I think is special around
this proof of a promise seriesis that because you've had
leadership and you have you knowsupported each other in the
roles from on-site to regionalto HR compliance, even, and then
(50:43):
the executive reasons for thistype of initiative in the
business, making the businessbetter in so many ways,
financially and and from anexperience standpoint, culture,
um, is to get that minimumviable team in place.
A lot of times, in ourexperience, uh, just in other
products and solutions that youthink about, we buy tools, but
the tool itself is not enough.
(51:03):
You need to have this alignmentand this um process uh all in
place.
So appreciate you guys beingpart of that.
And uh I know people willprobably have questions.
Uh, we'd love to uh invite youin to some of the other
innovative things we're doing,and we'll be spending some more
time in product innovation.
Great.
Um, but thank you for allowingus to build with you and and
(51:27):
make the business better.
SPEAKER_04 (51:29):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
Appreciate it.
All right, well, that's a wrap.
Uh, we'll see you guys in thenext episode.
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