March 27, 2024 • 29 mins
Watch this episode on YouTube (with Closed captioning): https://youtu.be/xRWeSLzZSnY
In this special 3 part episode, we celebrate Developmental Disability Awareness Month by featuring the incredible stories of business owners with disabilities. Entrepreneurs who are redefining what it means to be a business owner with a disability. Their stories are a testament to the strength, creativity, and resilience of the disability community, offering valuable perspectives on entrepreneurship, disability rights, and the importance of inclusivity in business.
Guests:
Micheal
- https://www.redwhitebrewri.com/
- https://www.instagram.com/redwhitebrewforyou/
- https://www.facebook.com/redwhitebrewri
Tracy
- https://www.instagram.com/thinking_diversity/
- https://www.instagram.com/tdmadgenius/
- https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100084712031638
- https://www.tiktok.com/@tdmadgenius
- https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8239360/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello,everyone. Thank you for joining me today.
(00:02):
So why don't we go aroundand introduce ourselves
and tell everyoneabout a little about your business?
So does anyone want to start?
I go.
I am the owner of Red, Whiteand Brew Coffee House,
which we are planning on doinga reopening in Warwick,
(00:24):
Airport Plaza
in coming weeks.
My name is Michael. Hello,my name is Tracy Lee Allard.
My business is called Thinking Diversity,which is a disability history,
but also a disability rights kind of
(00:46):
educational.
I want to like I wanted to saylike cultural, but it's it's educational.
Cultural.
I started it for people who were recentlydiagnosed autistic, who didn't grow up
with the same accessas people who were early diagnosed
(01:08):
so that we can teach them kind of the
rules,the spaces that they might not know.
And like some of the safety thingslike what are things that are okay
to talk about in these spacesand what are some that are
or that will not be received well,because not everybody knows
that in termsof how to navigate disabled spaces.
(01:31):
Thank you, both of you, for joining metoday on this call for this special
episode for Developmental DisabilityAwareness Month, which is in March.
So the first question I have for you both,and you can
whoever wants to start can start is
reflecting on your journey in your back.
(01:54):
In previous years,were there any challenges
that you encountered, especially during school,
and how did did any of those challenges
come along when you became an adultor a young adult I should say.
I think
for me a lot of mine was the stuffI didn't know, not so much what I did.
(02:17):
But I think navigating disabilityis, there's also a ton of like little
surprise, surprise packs that come likeif you have autism, then there's
a few co-morbidities that come with that,like a probably have ADHD.
You probably have likesome kind of anxiety, that kind of thing.
And I think navigating school,
(02:39):
I didn't realize that a lot of this stuffI was dealing with
wasn't just my autism,but it was physical
disability stuffthat I didn't even know I had either.
And I think that if I had known that,it would have been a lot
easier and I would have gotten ina lot less trouble for what I need to do
(03:01):
because I was often put in a position
as a kid to kind of make where I hadto make medical decisions for myself.
That was like what I needed.
And I don't mean
I don't mean like medical decisions, like,I'm going to put my shoulder
back in place in middle of math class,although I have done that before.
Don't.
(03:22):
That's not good advice.
But point is, is that
a lot of the stuff that I'm talking aboutis like I would wear hats in school
and they were
like, against the rules technically,but I would do it
so that I wouldn't like, itch myself.
And I tried explainingthat to the principal and everybody.
They were not going to accept that.
(03:42):
So I said, okay.
When they told me to take it off andthey were going to make me take it off,
I took it off while I was nineside of them and I put it back on
because it was what I medically needed.
So, like, I'm not going to argue with you
even as a child for what I need.
Even if you had a good doctor's notesaying that you need to have something
(04:06):
[I didn't want you]they still wouldn’t let you?
I didn't even think of that.
Like I didn't even know because I didn'tknow it had anything physical going on.
I didn't really know
that a lot of the stuffwas all related to something physical.
I found that out earlier this year, but
if I had known,I think that would have been great.
(04:29):
Michael, What about you, Did you have anychallenges in your, during school years?
I mainly just struggledwith like keeping focused and
basically
making friends on other things.
As as you, as you got older,did any of those challenges still stay a
(04:53):
better have you found, like, any toolsor anything that you use to help you
stay focused,stay on task, or make friends easily?
The focusinggot a little easier over the time.
Making friends.
Same thing a little easier,employment has definitely helped.
(05:18):
Yeah, that's for sure.
Well, yeah.
Owning your own business, yeah I bet?
Yeah, cause you.
So when you own your own business,
especially for you mikesince you have a coffee shop,
you interact with people, and day to dayyou meet meet all new people.
So you're up there upfront and greetingpeople and taking their orders, so.
(05:38):
Yep. Also, it kind of putsyou out of your comfort zone.
Yeah, actually, and try new things.I do. I'm talking, though.
It's.
I mean, having it goes with the job, too.
You have, having a coffee shopyou have to be able to talk to people.
But I didn't quite always like talking.
(05:58):
Yeah. Yeah.
I me either, I didn’t like talking eitherwhen I was younger.
I was like,the more I was, the more quiet, shy kid.
Yeah.
I think when I got older, for me,it was as I started doing my podcasts,
talking more,and I, I like to says I found
the microphone is a toolfor me to be social, nice, .
(06:21):
So when I have a microphone or camera.
It's a way, it kind of gets me out of thatcomfort zone
and helps would be more social.
nice.
I was on the opposite end of that.
I was always too talkative,but I know why now. Like that.
I realize that I use distractionas a way to deal with things.
This is Cookie, by the way.
(06:42):
He's probably on and off.
Is the CEO of my company, the .
of the cat executive officer.
So I shall be on and off.
But point is, is that I realize thatlike a lot of the things that I would do
in terms of over talking with stuff
that I would do to stop myselffrom other things,
(07:03):
such as the struggles with making friendswith, like the way
that I would emotionally feel about that.
It was kind of my way of
like self-regulation.
And it backfired a lot of times becausenot everybody knew what I was doing.
And they're just like, she talks a lot.
She's weird. But,
(07:26):
you know, it's something that likenow that I know what's up,
I can kind of like tell people, Hey,this is what I'm doing.
Yeah.
What aspect of your disabilitydo you wish society understood?
I think that, like, it's wild becausea lot of stuff that's coming out with
especially autism research.
(07:47):
When I was diagnosed,I was diagnosed in five.
I was diagnosed really, really young.
So when I was diagnosed, they were juststarting to kind of know what autism was.
They were just startingto make movies about it.
They were just startingto start talking about it.
And so they were so behindon a lot of things and a lot of people.
(08:08):
This is one of the thingsthat especially people
who are joining the community nowwho are late diagnosed or self diagnosed
don't usually realize
is that a lot of that researchthat wasn't there for us either,
that theynow have access to for themselves.
A lot of that researchcame out in around 2018,
(08:28):
which is stuff about rejection,sensitivity dysphoria, stuff
about like medical stuffthat happens because of the stress of ASD
and all the different thingsthat kind of go with it.
Yeah, I know noticed that
in early the years, there’s a lot ofinformation, it wasn't it was easy access.
(08:50):
But nowadayseveryone has a computer in the pocket,
24/7 access to the internet,so it's much easier to get access.
But on the downsideis it's also easy to put out.
Not the right information too.
Yeah, because if you Googlesomething or whatever.
search engine you use,
you have to be careful because sometimesit may not be the right thing and a lot
(09:13):
people tend to believe that thing and not,and that's where we get, as we see
on social media get this conflicts.
Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with too,like with my business
and with getting it startedis that a lot of people are turning to
folks who do not have 20 yearsof experience advocating
(09:34):
that they're turning to peoplewho do not understand
that there are people in our communitywho cannot speak at all
and who do need proxies,who do need parents, who do need staff
to speak on their behalf.
And a lot of peopledon't know the difference between a proxy
and a disability momor a disability dad or disability parent
(09:57):
where they don't knowhow to look for people
looking for the cuesor however their loved one communicates.
Right?
Because not everybody uses languagein this community, there’s
body pitch, there’s sign.
There's a lot of different things,but some people know their family members
(10:18):
communication better than anybody else.
What about you, Mike?
What would you wishsociety better understand?
Yeah, I do actually wishpeople would be like slower
explaining stuffor just slower when talking to somebody
who. Yeah, so they don't get frustratedand everything.
(10:42):
Mike Is that
is that similar to the comfortablelanguage, plain language
model?
Honesty I don't know.
Tracy Basically comfortableor plain language is that it's respecting
folks who
have a hard time dealing with a lot oflike really complex information at once.
(11:04):
So the whole premise of plain languageand comfortable language is putting
your language in as easy to understand
wording and as clear wording as possible.
So that slow would be
a way to make it clearso that process it and really take time.
Conversationsthat we're having with people
(11:25):
to really match their paceand their understanding.
Yeah. I say that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because everyone learnsat the same level.
And uh sometimes you have to break thingsdown more or change the way we learn
and use different different wordsor maybe symbols to it.
(11:46):
Yeah, I see a lot more emojisand I kind of think it's funny
because I think back of the caveman dayswhen we used to do things, cave stories,
paintings, the paintings,because those to me are like emojis,
because you can do a whole storytext message in emojis.
(12:06):
And we used to do cave paintings.
Yeah.
There's also a lot of really interestinghistory about that too.
in ASD.
They did a research study againin around the late 20 tens
and at
(12:27):
Oxford, and they found thata lot of the people
who were
leading a lot of
community for people
and like who were taking downthe stories were a lot of people
were neurodivergent in themselves.
So a lot of the original cave paintings,emojis were by people
(12:48):
who were neurodivergent leadersin their community
because of how their brain was processingthe information.
And I just thought that was interestingbecause that's
it's not a super well-known one,but it is a really fascinating
bit of history.
Yeah,
(13:09):
So What are some of the proudestachievements that you guys had so far?
That you like to share?
For me, I think it's about getting open,
in Warwick having a much biggerspace than what we used to
(13:33):
talk about.
Having more people coming throughbecause like TF Greene is
a stone's throw away from us.
Yeah, definitely.
Hopefully you get more peoplethat are more business. to.
Yeah, I can't waittill also seeing more of my customers.
(13:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Must be cool. Yeah.
Yeah it must be you must be kind of gladbeing with you see,
because you had something smalland be able to see the progression
of your business and growso that it's always exciting
to see something that you started forsomething small and people grow.
(14:16):
It keeps growing.
I'm just laughing at myselfbecause I can picture myself
coming in there ordering a hot chocolatein the middle of May.
Hey, I'll make it still.
well, What you Tracy, what are someachievements that you were proud of?
I think one of the coolest was thatI won a health equity
award in 2020 for disabilityactivism and disability rights.
(14:36):
And I think that was one of the coolestbecause I got
I started doing a lot more workwith medical systems after that.
On how to
learn how to navigate it.
And even with all even with
if you know how to navigate it,I still didn't even realize
(14:56):
that I was dealing with more than just ASDfor another five years too.
So there's a lot of stuffthat is really interesting.
I think the other thing is, is that
I'm learning how to or trying to celebratesmall things
rather than necessarily big things,because I think
(15:18):
big things is very rootedin productivism in a way.
And productivism is justhow much you can accomplish
and like what big goalsversus small goals like that come that
competitive nature of not just business,
(15:39):
but like aging society, all of that.
I And instead of giving in into this
like race where it's like, okay,everybody has to be at the same place
by this time. And like doingall this stuff, I'm trying to teach myself
how to be okay with where I am
(16:03):
and how to celebrate whatever it is that
is a little victory,you know, And a lot of people
in our community,they have a lot of little victories
that aren't necessarily like, I won the award for this whole thing
necessarily.
And I think a lot of times
(16:24):
we don't celebrate a lot of the smallerthings the way we should, especially
with folks who arewho do have trouble with processing,
where learning maybe 1 to 3 words a year
and how to do it on the tabletwith protocol or any of the other apps.
Like if that's an achievement,that's an achievement.
(16:48):
And it's not less than anybody else's.
Yeah.
And those small the small winstend to also keep keep you going to do
even more small winsand maybe bigger wins to over time.
Yeah. help you be successful.
Now that you guys are a business owner,have you noticed any changes
in how people interact withyou now versus back then?
(17:14):
Yeah, I have to.
Yeah, Like what?
I'm more part of my community.
That ever changed.
It's changed me in a person as before.
Like I didn't want anything to dowith like anybody
(17:34):
and now like I'm morea part of my community
than I've ever been.
Like,
okay, I have customerswho are on law enforcement that come in.
I have people, are firefightersthat come in.
Yeah, Like I run into
(17:56):
I've ran into so many customersat the grocery shop,
like just anywhere really.
And they're like, Michael,how have you been?
And I ran to one of my customers at BassPro one time.
I was out with my mom, my dad, and we wentto Bass Pro because I Bass Pro shops.
(18:22):
It's like a second home to me pretty much.
And we were just walking around and
we ran into one of my customers,
so and they're like, Michael,how are you?
And it was just so nice because like,
(18:43):
I don't, I’ve, before,I've never had anything like that.
Like I would run into like old friendswho have known me.
But now at the coffee shop,I'm running into people everywhere
that come to my coffee shop.
Friends like Tracy, for instance,like her and I went to Advocates
(19:05):
in Action together.
So yeah.
Yeah.
It's always nice to seewith people outside of where you work
and interact with them.
And it's kind of like,
like a celebrity type thing, right?
Yeah. I'm basicallythe mayor of Rhode Island right now.
(19:26):
What about you Tracy?
I'm still working on I've been working a lot online
because of a lot of the stuffthat I've been dealing with,
not just with my ASD but with my with my physical disability stuff as well.
So I've been really hesitant
to go out since 2020because of immunocompromised and all that.
(19:49):
But I finally got an answer.
So I'm looking to actually do more stuffin person.
Also, I haven't really had like a super
good gauge yet,like in within person stuff.
A lot of my gauge is throughsocial media,
but I'm also I also haven'tlike charged anybody for a lot of what I'm
(20:12):
putting out there eitherbecause there's so much misinformation
by peopleand they're not trying to be mean.
There are people who mean really well,they just want people to have more access,
but they
are doingit in a way where it's only serving
one part of the communityrather than the community as a whole,
(20:33):
or it's half information.
Yeah,
So I think I'm kind of excitedto look at transitioning
from having a lot of that stuffthat I did online to
doing that more in personand then finding out
(20:53):
like what a good balanceis for both of those things.
Now, Tracysince you do a lot of stuff online.
When you say somethingabout a particular topic?
Do people tend to be reject, reject that,or do they tend to like accept
what you're saying?
It depends. It depends.
I think most people are pretty accepting.
I think the one thing that is hardis that there's a lot of people
(21:18):
because there's not really tone and a lot of people struggle with
understanding sometimes what's being said,especially by people who are in
or who are already inor grew up in marginalized communities
that do not have to doany kind of like reconnecting or
figuring outhow to get involved with community.
(21:41):
Because a lot of the stuff that we saythis is taken a lot
as people will think of itas gatekeeping, as like,
we don't want you in the communityand that's not what we said.
A lot of times it's
we want you to get to know the communitybefore advocating for the community.
Like if you are somebodywho is new to the office, really
(22:02):
get involved with local places andI mean ones that don't require diagnosis,
but also like see if there's other peoplethat you can just hang out with.
That's not a formal social media, that areASD So that way you can get used to
others faces.
And the differencebetween that in a typical space,
(22:24):
but also get involvedwith developmentally disabled spaces,
not just autism,
because so much of our communityisn't just autism, it's also people
with Down's syndrome.It's people with cerebral palsy.
It's peoplewho have all this whole variety
of different things that they grow up in.
(22:44):
If you're only
access in this community from one of it's,you're going to miss a lot of the equity
that has to be there for
other folks in the community,especially folks who can be judged
because they look differentor they might need some help with like
(23:06):
how to word things
and make it clear
if especially if people who aren't usedto hearing people who have like different
not not accents,but like in the disabled community,
like how people have different waysof talking
based on what their ability isor if they can at all.
(23:28):
How does it make you feelthat you've built something of your own?
That makes me feel appreciatedthroughout my community?
I think for me it's kind of interestingbecause I was doing this
not as a business thing before, like as I
advocacy thing.
And I think it's interesting to see
(23:49):
how things have evolvedfrom when I started advocating to know,
especially with a lot of the peoplewho are now able to self diagnose
and who recognize likewhat are things that go along with autism
and what aren't, I just wish that that energy would expand
to actually getting to knowpeople who have higher support needs.
(24:14):
And I mean, people who are not
the kind of autistic that you would
fetishize,
the people who havewho will say things that are not socially
tolerable, that you have to explainand help them understand
instead of rejecting themfrom your community, where you have to
(24:36):
really get to know
people and be okay with their quirks,be okay with things that
they do that is a part of their diagnosis,which isn't always
what you're used to.
Sometimes it's people who
they repeat the samething.
They have things that they like.
(24:57):
There are some people, I have friends,who quote movies out of context,
and I love that
a lot of peopledon't know what they're doing
or don't know how to match the that what they're saying up with whatever movie
they're quoting. So they can't really
fullyaccess this person's way of communicating.
But getting to know the peoplewho are considered
(25:20):
higher support needs as well as the onesthat are considered lower support needs
because if we really want neurodiversity,acceptance and autistic acceptance
have to go for the whole communitycan't just be cherry picked
who you decided was worth it.
Very True.
So the last question I have forboth of you
(25:42):
why is the inclusion of individualswith disabilities important.
We all have something to contribute.
There's a whole lot that goes into this.
But I mean, I thinkespecially for modern society
and a lot of things that are shiftingmodern society, like we talk about
wanting to be more socially conscious,we talk about wanting
(26:06):
a lot more access.
All of these things are thingsthat would need to center disabled people
to really reach everybody.
And I think also
really respecting the ideasof intelligence extremes too.
I'm somebody who is twice exceptional,which means I'm autistic,
but I'm also advanced in a few different
(26:31):
areas in terms of intelligence.
But that sets me up for some strugglesthat most people wouldn't think about
because the word giftedis extremely eugenic and misleading.
But also a lot of people don't know why.
Sometimes the stuff that is a strugglefor me might be a lot easier for folks
(26:53):
who strugglewith a lot more of the intellectual like
processing kind of stuff but are a lotbetter at like emotional regulation
or a lot better at
being themselves
with without worryingabout who's judging, you know what I mean?
(27:15):
And a lotof times we don't think about those things
as strength, weaknessesor forms of intelligence either.
So our metric of how we view
talent and how we viewintelligence is completely skewed
because we're only judging it by booksand we're not judging it by
(27:35):
the whole spectrum of things that make up a person.
that's an interesting point.
Cool.
I never thought about that.
So, Michael,where can people find more about you,
about your coffee shop,if they want to learn more.
our websites, Facebook, Instagram,
(27:56):
our website is red white and brew ri.
Our Instagram is red whiteand brew for you.
Awesome. What about you, Tracy?
If someone want to learn more about youwhere can they find you?
Most of the stuff that I put up, I put upon TikTok, I put it up at TD Mad Genius.
I haven't uploaded at all in a while.
(28:18):
I have to.
And then on most social handles,you can also look for thinking diversity
and you'llalso that'll be my company page.
My actual handles are usually somethingalong the lines of Tracy Lee Allard.
Well, thank you both for being on today.
I wish you luck in your businesses
(28:40):
and if there's anything else you'd liketo share with us, you can say it now?
Yeah, I think.
Thank you for having both of us too,and hosting it.
And also just in general,being knowledgeable about all this.
This was a lot of fun Nate,and thank you for having me.
Yeah it was funI even learned a lot, some stuff too.
This is the second time we're doing itthis year,
(29:01):
and I think it's definitely needed too.
So I'm excited to be part of that.
Hello,everyone. Thank you for joining me today.
(00:02):
So why don't we go aroundand introduce ourselves
and tell everyoneabout a little about your business?
So does anyone want to start?
I go.
I am the owner of Red, Whiteand Brew Coffee House,
which we are planning on doinga reopening in Warwick,
(00:24):
Airport Plaza
in coming weeks.
My name is Michael. Hello,my name is Tracy Lee Allard.
My business is called Thinking Diversity,which is a disability history,
but also a disability rights kind of
(00:46):
educational.
I want to like I wanted to saylike cultural, but it's it's educational.
Cultural.
I started it for people who were recentlydiagnosed autistic, who didn't grow up
with the same accessas people who were early diagnosed
(01:08):
so that we can teach them kind of the
rules,the spaces that they might not know.
And like some of the safety thingslike what are things that are okay
to talk about in these spacesand what are some that are
or that will not be received well,because not everybody knows
that in termsof how to navigate disabled spaces.
(01:31):
Thank you, both of you, for joining metoday on this call for this special
episode for Developmental DisabilityAwareness Month, which is in March.
So the first question I have for you both,and you can
whoever wants to start can start is
reflecting on your journey in your back.
(01:54):
In previous years,were there any challenges
that you encountered, especially during school,
and how did did any of those challenges
come along when you became an adultor a young adult I should say.
I think
for me a lot of mine was the stuffI didn't know, not so much what I did.
(02:17):
But I think navigating disabilityis, there's also a ton of like little
surprise, surprise packs that come likeif you have autism, then there's
a few co-morbidities that come with that,like a probably have ADHD.
You probably have likesome kind of anxiety, that kind of thing.
And I think navigating school,
(02:39):
I didn't realize that a lot of this stuffI was dealing with
wasn't just my autism,but it was physical
disability stuffthat I didn't even know I had either.
And I think that if I had known that,it would have been a lot
easier and I would have gotten ina lot less trouble for what I need to do
(03:01):
because I was often put in a position
as a kid to kind of make where I hadto make medical decisions for myself.
That was like what I needed.
And I don't mean
I don't mean like medical decisions, like,I'm going to put my shoulder
back in place in middle of math class,although I have done that before.
Don't.
(03:22):
That's not good advice.
But point is, is that
a lot of the stuff that I'm talking aboutis like I would wear hats in school
and they were
like, against the rules technically,but I would do it
so that I wouldn't like, itch myself.
And I tried explainingthat to the principal and everybody.
They were not going to accept that.
(03:42):
So I said, okay.
When they told me to take it off andthey were going to make me take it off,
I took it off while I was nineside of them and I put it back on
because it was what I medically needed.
So, like, I'm not going to argue with you
even as a child for what I need.
Even if you had a good doctor's notesaying that you need to have something
(04:06):
[I didn't want you]they still wouldn’t let you?
I didn't even think of that.
Like I didn't even know because I didn'tknow it had anything physical going on.
I didn't really know
that a lot of the stuffwas all related to something physical.
I found that out earlier this year, but
if I had known,I think that would have been great.
(04:29):
Michael, What about you, Did you have anychallenges in your, during school years?
I mainly just struggledwith like keeping focused and
basically
making friends on other things.
As as you, as you got older,did any of those challenges still stay a
(04:53):
better have you found, like, any toolsor anything that you use to help you
stay focused,stay on task, or make friends easily?
The focusinggot a little easier over the time.
Making friends.
Same thing a little easier,employment has definitely helped.
(05:18):
Yeah, that's for sure.
Well, yeah.
Owning your own business, yeah I bet?
Yeah, cause you.
So when you own your own business,
especially for you mikesince you have a coffee shop,
you interact with people, and day to dayyou meet meet all new people.
So you're up there upfront and greetingpeople and taking their orders, so.
(05:38):
Yep. Also, it kind of putsyou out of your comfort zone.
Yeah, actually, and try new things.I do. I'm talking, though.
It's.
I mean, having it goes with the job, too.
You have, having a coffee shopyou have to be able to talk to people.
But I didn't quite always like talking.
(05:58):
Yeah. Yeah.
I me either, I didn’t like talking eitherwhen I was younger.
I was like,the more I was, the more quiet, shy kid.
Yeah.
I think when I got older, for me,it was as I started doing my podcasts,
talking more,and I, I like to says I found
the microphone is a toolfor me to be social, nice, .
(06:21):
So when I have a microphone or camera.
It's a way, it kind of gets me out of thatcomfort zone
and helps would be more social.
nice.
I was on the opposite end of that.
I was always too talkative,but I know why now. Like that.
I realize that I use distractionas a way to deal with things.
This is Cookie, by the way.
(06:42):
He's probably on and off.
Is the CEO of my company, the .
of the cat executive officer.
So I shall be on and off.
But point is, is that I realize thatlike a lot of the things that I would do
in terms of over talking with stuff
that I would do to stop myselffrom other things,
(07:03):
such as the struggles with making friendswith, like the way
that I would emotionally feel about that.
It was kind of my way of
like self-regulation.
And it backfired a lot of times becausenot everybody knew what I was doing.
And they're just like, she talks a lot.
She's weird. But,
(07:26):
you know, it's something that likenow that I know what's up,
I can kind of like tell people, Hey,this is what I'm doing.
Yeah.
What aspect of your disabilitydo you wish society understood?
I think that, like, it's wild becausea lot of stuff that's coming out with
especially autism research.
(07:47):
When I was diagnosed,I was diagnosed in five.
I was diagnosed really, really young.
So when I was diagnosed, they were juststarting to kind of know what autism was.
They were just startingto make movies about it.
They were just startingto start talking about it.
And so they were so behindon a lot of things and a lot of people.
(08:08):
This is one of the thingsthat especially people
who are joining the community nowwho are late diagnosed or self diagnosed
don't usually realize
is that a lot of that researchthat wasn't there for us either,
that theynow have access to for themselves.
A lot of that researchcame out in around 2018,
(08:28):
which is stuff about rejection,sensitivity dysphoria, stuff
about like medical stuffthat happens because of the stress of ASD
and all the different thingsthat kind of go with it.
Yeah, I know noticed that
in early the years, there’s a lot ofinformation, it wasn't it was easy access.
(08:50):
But nowadayseveryone has a computer in the pocket,
24/7 access to the internet,so it's much easier to get access.
But on the downsideis it's also easy to put out.
Not the right information too.
Yeah, because if you Googlesomething or whatever.
search engine you use,
you have to be careful because sometimesit may not be the right thing and a lot
(09:13):
people tend to believe that thing and not,and that's where we get, as we see
on social media get this conflicts.
Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with too,like with my business
and with getting it startedis that a lot of people are turning to
folks who do not have 20 yearsof experience advocating
(09:34):
that they're turning to peoplewho do not understand
that there are people in our communitywho cannot speak at all
and who do need proxies,who do need parents, who do need staff
to speak on their behalf.
And a lot of peopledon't know the difference between a proxy
and a disability momor a disability dad or disability parent
(09:57):
where they don't knowhow to look for people
looking for the cuesor however their loved one communicates.
Right?
Because not everybody uses languagein this community, there’s
body pitch, there’s sign.
There's a lot of different things,but some people know their family members
(10:18):
communication better than anybody else.
What about you, Mike?
What would you wishsociety better understand?
Yeah, I do actually wishpeople would be like slower
explaining stuffor just slower when talking to somebody
who. Yeah, so they don't get frustratedand everything.
(10:42):
Mike Is that
is that similar to the comfortablelanguage, plain language
model?
Honesty I don't know.
Tracy Basically comfortableor plain language is that it's respecting
folks who
have a hard time dealing with a lot oflike really complex information at once.
(11:04):
So the whole premise of plain languageand comfortable language is putting
your language in as easy to understand
wording and as clear wording as possible.
So that slow would be
a way to make it clearso that process it and really take time.
Conversationsthat we're having with people
(11:25):
to really match their paceand their understanding.
Yeah. I say that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because everyone learnsat the same level.
And uh sometimes you have to break thingsdown more or change the way we learn
and use different different wordsor maybe symbols to it.
(11:46):
Yeah, I see a lot more emojisand I kind of think it's funny
because I think back of the caveman dayswhen we used to do things, cave stories,
paintings, the paintings,because those to me are like emojis,
because you can do a whole storytext message in emojis.
(12:06):
And we used to do cave paintings.
Yeah.
There's also a lot of really interestinghistory about that too.
in ASD.
They did a research study againin around the late 20 tens
and at
(12:27):
Oxford, and they found thata lot of the people
who were
leading a lot of
community for people
and like who were taking downthe stories were a lot of people
were neurodivergent in themselves.
So a lot of the original cave paintings,emojis were by people
(12:48):
who were neurodivergent leadersin their community
because of how their brain was processingthe information.
And I just thought that was interestingbecause that's
it's not a super well-known one,but it is a really fascinating
bit of history.
Yeah,
(13:09):
So What are some of the proudestachievements that you guys had so far?
That you like to share?
For me, I think it's about getting open,
in Warwick having a much biggerspace than what we used to
(13:33):
talk about.
Having more people coming throughbecause like TF Greene is
a stone's throw away from us.
Yeah, definitely.
Hopefully you get more peoplethat are more business. to.
Yeah, I can't waittill also seeing more of my customers.
(13:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Must be cool. Yeah.
Yeah it must be you must be kind of gladbeing with you see,
because you had something smalland be able to see the progression
of your business and growso that it's always exciting
to see something that you started forsomething small and people grow.
(14:16):
It keeps growing.
I'm just laughing at myselfbecause I can picture myself
coming in there ordering a hot chocolatein the middle of May.
Hey, I'll make it still.
well, What you Tracy, what are someachievements that you were proud of?
I think one of the coolest was thatI won a health equity
award in 2020 for disabilityactivism and disability rights.
(14:36):
And I think that was one of the coolestbecause I got
I started doing a lot more workwith medical systems after that.
On how to
learn how to navigate it.
And even with all even with
if you know how to navigate it,I still didn't even realize
(14:56):
that I was dealing with more than just ASDfor another five years too.
So there's a lot of stuffthat is really interesting.
I think the other thing is, is that
I'm learning how to or trying to celebratesmall things
rather than necessarily big things,because I think
(15:18):
big things is very rootedin productivism in a way.
And productivism is justhow much you can accomplish
and like what big goalsversus small goals like that come that
competitive nature of not just business,
(15:39):
but like aging society, all of that.
I And instead of giving in into this
like race where it's like, okay,everybody has to be at the same place
by this time. And like doingall this stuff, I'm trying to teach myself
how to be okay with where I am
(16:03):
and how to celebrate whatever it is that
is a little victory,you know, And a lot of people
in our community,they have a lot of little victories
that aren't necessarily like, I won the award for this whole thing
necessarily.
And I think a lot of times
(16:24):
we don't celebrate a lot of the smallerthings the way we should, especially
with folks who arewho do have trouble with processing,
where learning maybe 1 to 3 words a year
and how to do it on the tabletwith protocol or any of the other apps.
Like if that's an achievement,that's an achievement.
(16:48):
And it's not less than anybody else's.
Yeah.
And those small the small winstend to also keep keep you going to do
even more small winsand maybe bigger wins to over time.
Yeah. help you be successful.
Now that you guys are a business owner,have you noticed any changes
in how people interact withyou now versus back then?
(17:14):
Yeah, I have to.
Yeah, Like what?
I'm more part of my community.
That ever changed.
It's changed me in a person as before.
Like I didn't want anything to dowith like anybody
(17:34):
and now like I'm morea part of my community
than I've ever been.
Like,
okay, I have customerswho are on law enforcement that come in.
I have people, are firefightersthat come in.
Yeah, Like I run into
(17:56):
I've ran into so many customersat the grocery shop,
like just anywhere really.
And they're like, Michael,how have you been?
And I ran to one of my customers at BassPro one time.
I was out with my mom, my dad, and we wentto Bass Pro because I Bass Pro shops.
(18:22):
It's like a second home to me pretty much.
And we were just walking around and
we ran into one of my customers,
so and they're like, Michael,how are you?
And it was just so nice because like,
(18:43):
I don't, I’ve, before,I've never had anything like that.
Like I would run into like old friendswho have known me.
But now at the coffee shop,I'm running into people everywhere
that come to my coffee shop.
Friends like Tracy, for instance,like her and I went to Advocates
(19:05):
in Action together.
So yeah.
Yeah.
It's always nice to seewith people outside of where you work
and interact with them.
And it's kind of like,
like a celebrity type thing, right?
Yeah. I'm basicallythe mayor of Rhode Island right now.
(19:26):
What about you Tracy?
I'm still working on I've been working a lot online
because of a lot of the stuffthat I've been dealing with,
not just with my ASD but with my with my physical disability stuff as well.
So I've been really hesitant
to go out since 2020because of immunocompromised and all that.
(19:49):
But I finally got an answer.
So I'm looking to actually do more stuffin person.
Also, I haven't really had like a super
good gauge yet,like in within person stuff.
A lot of my gauge is throughsocial media,
but I'm also I also haven'tlike charged anybody for a lot of what I'm
(20:12):
putting out there eitherbecause there's so much misinformation
by peopleand they're not trying to be mean.
There are people who mean really well,they just want people to have more access,
but they
are doingit in a way where it's only serving
one part of the communityrather than the community as a whole,
(20:33):
or it's half information.
Yeah,
So I think I'm kind of excitedto look at transitioning
from having a lot of that stuffthat I did online to
doing that more in personand then finding out
(20:53):
like what a good balanceis for both of those things.
Now, Tracysince you do a lot of stuff online.
When you say somethingabout a particular topic?
Do people tend to be reject, reject that,or do they tend to like accept
what you're saying?
It depends. It depends.
I think most people are pretty accepting.
I think the one thing that is hardis that there's a lot of people
(21:18):
because there's not really tone and a lot of people struggle with
understanding sometimes what's being said,especially by people who are in
or who are already inor grew up in marginalized communities
that do not have to doany kind of like reconnecting or
figuring outhow to get involved with community.
(21:41):
Because a lot of the stuff that we saythis is taken a lot
as people will think of itas gatekeeping, as like,
we don't want you in the communityand that's not what we said.
A lot of times it's
we want you to get to know the communitybefore advocating for the community.
Like if you are somebodywho is new to the office, really
(22:02):
get involved with local places andI mean ones that don't require diagnosis,
but also like see if there's other peoplethat you can just hang out with.
That's not a formal social media, that areASD So that way you can get used to
others faces.
And the differencebetween that in a typical space,
(22:24):
but also get involvedwith developmentally disabled spaces,
not just autism,
because so much of our communityisn't just autism, it's also people
with Down's syndrome.It's people with cerebral palsy.
It's peoplewho have all this whole variety
of different things that they grow up in.
(22:44):
If you're only
access in this community from one of it's,you're going to miss a lot of the equity
that has to be there for
other folks in the community,especially folks who can be judged
because they look differentor they might need some help with like
(23:06):
how to word things
and make it clear
if especially if people who aren't usedto hearing people who have like different
not not accents,but like in the disabled community,
like how people have different waysof talking
based on what their ability isor if they can at all.
(23:28):
How does it make you feelthat you've built something of your own?
That makes me feel appreciatedthroughout my community?
I think for me it's kind of interestingbecause I was doing this
not as a business thing before, like as I
advocacy thing.
And I think it's interesting to see
(23:49):
how things have evolvedfrom when I started advocating to know,
especially with a lot of the peoplewho are now able to self diagnose
and who recognize likewhat are things that go along with autism
and what aren't, I just wish that that energy would expand
to actually getting to knowpeople who have higher support needs.
(24:14):
And I mean, people who are not
the kind of autistic that you would
fetishize,
the people who havewho will say things that are not socially
tolerable, that you have to explainand help them understand
instead of rejecting themfrom your community, where you have to
(24:36):
really get to know
people and be okay with their quirks,be okay with things that
they do that is a part of their diagnosis,which isn't always
what you're used to.
Sometimes it's people who
they repeat the samething.
They have things that they like.
(24:57):
There are some people, I have friends,who quote movies out of context,
and I love that
a lot of peopledon't know what they're doing
or don't know how to match the that what they're saying up with whatever movie
they're quoting. So they can't really
fullyaccess this person's way of communicating.
But getting to know the peoplewho are considered
(25:20):
higher support needs as well as the onesthat are considered lower support needs
because if we really want neurodiversity,acceptance and autistic acceptance
have to go for the whole communitycan't just be cherry picked
who you decided was worth it.
Very True.
So the last question I have forboth of you
(25:42):
why is the inclusion of individualswith disabilities important.
We all have something to contribute.
There's a whole lot that goes into this.
But I mean, I thinkespecially for modern society
and a lot of things that are shiftingmodern society, like we talk about
wanting to be more socially conscious,we talk about wanting
(26:06):
a lot more access.
All of these things are thingsthat would need to center disabled people
to really reach everybody.
And I think also
really respecting the ideasof intelligence extremes too.
I'm somebody who is twice exceptional,which means I'm autistic,
but I'm also advanced in a few different
(26:31):
areas in terms of intelligence.
But that sets me up for some strugglesthat most people wouldn't think about
because the word giftedis extremely eugenic and misleading.
But also a lot of people don't know why.
Sometimes the stuff that is a strugglefor me might be a lot easier for folks
(26:53):
who strugglewith a lot more of the intellectual like
processing kind of stuff but are a lotbetter at like emotional regulation
or a lot better at
being themselves
with without worryingabout who's judging, you know what I mean?
(27:15):
And a lotof times we don't think about those things
as strength, weaknessesor forms of intelligence either.
So our metric of how we view
talent and how we viewintelligence is completely skewed
because we're only judging it by booksand we're not judging it by
(27:35):
the whole spectrum of things that make up a person.
that's an interesting point.
Cool.
I never thought about that.
So, Michael,where can people find more about you,
about your coffee shop,if they want to learn more.
our websites, Facebook, Instagram,
(27:56):
our website is red white and brew ri.
Our Instagram is red whiteand brew for you.
Awesome. What about you, Tracy?
If someone want to learn more about youwhere can they find you?
Most of the stuff that I put up, I put upon TikTok, I put it up at TD Mad Genius.
I haven't uploaded at all in a while.
(28:18):
I have to.
And then on most social handles,you can also look for thinking diversity
and you'llalso that'll be my company page.
My actual handles are usually somethingalong the lines of Tracy Lee Allard.
Well, thank you both for being on today.
I wish you luck in your businesses
(28:40):
and if there's anything else you'd liketo share with us, you can say it now?
Yeah, I think.
Thank you for having both of us too,and hosting it.
And also just in general,being knowledgeable about all this.
This was a lot of fun Nate,and thank you for having me.
Yeah it was funI even learned a lot, some stuff too.
This is the second time we're doing itthis year,
(29:01):
and I think it's definitely needed too.
So I'm excited to be part of that.
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