August 12, 2025 • 41 mins
Robin Byrd was more than a porn star—she was a pioneer creating one of Manhattan’s most iconic cable shows, The Robin Byrd Show which she produced and starred in from 1977-1998. In this episode Kaytlin Bailey dives deep into the story of a woman who built her own stage and invited the world to join her. This episode explores Byrd’s sex-positive activism, her quiet role in the AIDS crisis, her battles against censorship, and the enduring legacy of her red-lit studio.
We want to thank Jyllian Gunther and Stephanie Schwam for all their research and help shaping this episode. And thank you to Robin Byrd for telling and preserving her story and for sitting down with the team at Old Pros and answering all of our questions. You can still watch episodes of The Robin Byrd Show twice a day (at 10pm and 5am) on channel 1820 on Spectrum cable NYC!
Follow Robin Byrd on Instagram.
For more information, and sources visit our website. You can see much more on Robin Byrd’s website.
The Oldest Profession Podcast is produced by Old Pros, a non-profit media organization that uses storytelling to advocate for sex worker rights.
If you value our mission, please consider making a tax deductible donation. To learn more visit us at oldprosonline.org, which is also where you can get Old Pros t-shirts, sweatshirts, totes, stickers, and more. Of course, proceeds from our shop support our work at Old Pros.
This episode was made possible through recurring tax deductible contributions from listeners like you. We’d also like to thank our Season 6 sponsors M e g a P e r s o n a l s, Assembly Four, Tryst, A Great Idea, and the New Moon Network.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Episode Link
(00:01):
00;00;00;00
Welcome back to the Oldest Profession podcast. I'm your host, Kaytlin Bailey. And today I'm
going to tell you about Robin Byrd.
Now, if you didn't grow up watching late-night leased cable access television in Manhattan from
1977 until 1998, then you might not know who Robin Byrd is and why she's so important. But
like so many of the old pros we talk about on the show, Robin Byrd was an unapologetic sex
worker, freedom fighter, and innovator.
She conceived, produced and hosted a wildly popular television show by herself. She created a
frank, funny, educational show that reached the queer community of Manhattan at a time when it
mattered the most. Let's talk about how she did it.
[Opening music]
00;02;07;25
Robin was born April 6th, 1954 and given up for adoption almost immediately. Now, we don't
know much about the specific circumstances surrounding her birth but we do know that Robin's
adoptive mother couldn't conceive naturally. And in 1954 at the height of the baby boom, a lot of
families wanted to adopt children. Now her adoptive mother and her father were both from
prominent Jewish families in New York City, and they adopted Robin as an infant. Listening to
Robin talk about her childhood, it's clear that there was a lot of tension between her and her
adoptive mother. Robin describes her adoptive mother as looking like Elizabeth Taylor and
having really only unkind, unflattering things to say about Robin.
We know that the family dynamic was pretty toxic. In fact, Robin's adoptive parents got divorced
(00:22):
when she was only six years old, which was very unusual in the 1960s. And in another unusual
move, Robin chose to live with her adoptive father, but unfortunately, after only two years, when
Robin was eight years old, he died and she was forced to move back in with her abusive and
controlling adoptive mother.
And things got bad enough that Robin made the bold choice, at 13 years old, to run away from
home and take her chances in Central Park. She thought that was better than the fancy facade
that was a cover for an abusive environment.
So Robin runs away in 1967, and she is a smart but 13-year-old person, and at first she stays
with friends.
She spends a couple of nights in the park sleeping outside. She also finds a boyfriend who
gives her a place to stay, and like a lot of runaways, she trades sex and intimacy and friendship
to get her basic survival needs met. But once Robin gets a handle on the basics, finds a place
to live, figures out how to feed herself, she immediately starts taking classes.
She starts out at Baruch College studying marketing, but she really finds her people at the
School of Visual Arts, where she starts exploring the film and television department, learning all
about this new, exciting technology and how it works. She also starts posing nude for art
classes on campus, exploring her own self-described exhibitionism and bisexuality.
Now look, even at 69 years old, I would describe Robin as a bit of a flirt and I'm sure that was
100% true for the 17-year-old, who was just dipping her toe into college classes. And again,
Robin is in a rapidly changing New York City, and she is very much a part of the pro-sex, pro-art,
pro-new ideas scene that's emerging. So not only is she posing nude for art classes, but she's
(00:43):
also going to orgies, experimenting with her own sexuality, and living this free, unbridled artistic
life. It's certainly not what her adoptive mother would have chosen for her. But Robin took one
look at middle class, respectable American society and chose to have a good time.
So while Robin is taking classes and posing nude for artists and aspiring artists, learning a little
bit about television and film production, she meets a man named Shelly. Now, the story of their
meet cute is a little unconventional.
They met on Fire Island at the height of the free-love era. Robin described herself as the orgy
queen at the time, and she was, according to legend, getting absolutely railed by somebody
called the Golden Superman. And it was actually her cries of orgasmic, enthusiastic pleasure
that caught the attention of Shelly, a nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn who worked in advertising
and just so happened to be staying in the same house as Robin. And based on everything that
I've learned about him, he would never have found himself in a similar situation.
Now, Robin is not someone that anyone would describe as a shy person. So as soon as she
knew that she got this cute boy's attention, she introduced herself, started hanging around,
making herself available and by all accounts, slowly seduced this very kind guy with a super
normal job who could not help himself but fall head over heels for the undeniable Robin Byrd.
So they start their relationship. Robin continues to work as a model and dancer. She starts
getting into porn, and she ends up becoming the cultural icon that we know and love today with
the full, quiet, consistent support of her partner.
00;07;28;12 [Break]
00;08;54;14
(01:04):
So in 1972, Deep Throat premiered and changed the relationship between pornography and the
mainstream. Now, we've talked about this film many times on the podcast before, and it is
difficult to overstate the impact that it had on culture. Everyone was talking about this movie. I
mean, Jackie Kennedy Onassis, Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson were all at the premiere.
This is the film that begins the era of porn chic, and it's also the film that activates the anti-porn
feminist movement. Really, starting with Deep Throat, the feminist movement in the United
States shifts its focus from access to reproductive health care, expanding access to
contraception and abortion, labor protections, making sure that women had access to male
dominated spaces and becomes absolutely obsessed with pornography as a symbol of violence
against women. And this divides the feminist movement for decades. And it's a division that still
exists today. And Robin Byrd was firmly on the side of people having sex for fun.
In fact, in 1974, a then 21-year-old Robin Byrd participated in the Miss All Bare America contest
at the Beacon Theatre in New York City, which is exactly what it sounds like.
It's like Miss America, but butt naked and therefore subversive. Now, look, I don't know if you
guys are familiar with the brand of Miss America, but it's basically a contest for, like, how to be a
trad wife harder. But the Miss All Bare America pageant, no one is competing to be anyone's
wife. And in this way, it really is a feminist statement.
So between the nude modeling and the Miss All Bare America pageant, it starts to occur to
Robin that there might be a real opportunity here to make a living. And pretty quickly, she's
recruited by a production company to participate in something called loops which we talked
about on the Candida Royalle episode. Now, this is a form of cheaply-produced pornography,
(01:25):
often a single sex act that is on a single loop, which is how it got its name.
And this is often people's first entry into the world of pornography during this era and Robin is
told by this production company that 1) she gets to have sex with people she’s already having
orgies with, an activity she obviously loves, 2) that she'll be paid for that act, a revelatory for any
college student, and 3), and I think this is important context that this particular loop would
exclusively be available to people in Sweden outside of the United States. And it's hard to
imagine knowing anyone from Sweden. So it's a pretty easy yes for Robin.
Robin describes a gentle transition from art modeling into pornography. And this is an
experience she shares with Candida Royalle, who we covered on the show, but also figures like
Annie Sprinkle and Veronica Vera, who are hanging out with an artistic, sexually-liberated
crowd. And the cool kids in the 1970s are making porn.
In 1978, Robin lands the role of Mrs. Hardwicke in Debbie Does Dallas, which is regarded as
one of the most important releases during the Golden Age of Porn.
This, of course, solidifies Robin's reputation and position among the porn stars she's already
hanging out with. And Robin is very much in the scene of people who are not only making porn,
but making, like, the most popular porn.
So in 1977, at 23 years old, Robin was very much a part of the sexual creative class in New
York. She had a fun, bubbly personality and a bit but memorable part in one of the hottest porn
films at the height of the porn chic moment. So it made sense when she was invited to guest
host a show called Hot Legs, a show that was on leased cable access television.
Now leased cable access television started in 1971, when Manhattan Cable Television first
(01:46):
started offering public access programming, which allowed someone, anyone to rent airtime in
studio space to air these live talk shows or whatever. Now, this was formed with the intention of
giving people from underserved communities access to build communities, share information,
and get on this new technology. So in the 1970s, for $25, you could rent half an hour of leased
cable access television.
And look, just to give you a little bit of context and an example, one of the first leased cable
access shows is called Oxygen Junkies. And it was a show by and for scuba diving enthusiasts.
Remember, this is before YouTube. This is before TikTok. It's before everyone and their mother
has the ability to speak directly to camera, to a chosen audience, often live from the studio.
So the folks behind Hot Legs, like so many sex worker creatives that came before them, are
truly at the cutting edge of a new technology, often using sex work to fund their own passion
projects like this talk show. Hot Legs was initially run by this guy who made money in porn and
he used the show to bring on the people that he was working with, who would then take calls
from the live audience. So anyone in Manhattan could, like, tune in to this free access cable
show and call a number and talk to the porn star, right, that was speaking.
And sometimes these live audience calls got verbally abusive. So abusive, in fact, that Robin
was reluctant to do the show at first. She was invited several times before agreeing to host, but
when she did, she had a different experience. She brought this gentle, playful, domme energy
that really helped curtail the baser instincts of some of her callers.
First of all, Robin had no problems hanging up on people she didn't like for any reason. Now,
look, I have a lot of respect for Robin, and one of the things that I love the most about her is her
(02:07):
willingness to say no to things that are not for her. Right? This is someone who ran away from
home at 13. She dropped out of college, and she hung up on callers whose vibes were off.
So Robin becomes a regular host on this show called Hot Legs, and audiences respond to her
immediately. She develops a bit of a following, and she loves doing the show. But one day she
shows up to set and no one's there.
It turns out that the guy that was producing Hot Legs was in a ton of debt to the studio, actually,
and so he shut down production of the show rather than pay those bills. And so Robin asked the
crew and the folks that were hanging around the studio if she could take over the show, and the
guy sort of gently suggests like, hey, yeah, I guess if you want to pay this guy's debts, you can
run Hot Legs if you really want to. But if you just want to run your own show with no preexisting
debt, you should call it something else.
And that is how The Robin Byrd Show was born.
So Robin Byrd starts hosting The Robin Byrd Show. And I think it's important to point out, by the
way, that the only other people who are asking questions on TV every night are white dudes
during this era, right?
And remember, Robin is not only the producer, but also the set designer, the editor, the writer,
the coordinator. She's literally picking up guests in her car on her way to the studio. She is the
creative director of the show and also the star talent. There are zero barriers between Robin
Byrd's vision and her ability to execute it.
And Robin's partner Shelly, who she starts calling her head gopher on the show, by the way,
gets her a sign that reads in red lights, “The Robin Byrd Show,” inside of this beautiful heart, and
(02:28):
she designs this all red set. She starts wearing this soon-to-be iconic, custom-made, black
crochet bikini that shows everything and also nothing and then finishes the look with white nail
polish.
And Robin, as a host and as a creative director, is very aware that she is in direct-to-camera
conversation with her audience, and she brings this really fun energy. Folks at the time
described the show as, like, a combination of Mister Rogers meets Debbie Does Dallas. She
starts reading her audience, like, these fun bedtime stories and she ends that segment by
saying that she wants to turn you on and tuck you in. How cute is that? And the show is really
popular, even though it's only available in Manhattan.
People start taping the show and mailing it to their friends all over the country. In fact, according
to rumor or legend or what have you, when Sammy Davis Jr. died, people found dozens and
dozens of VHS tapes of The Robin Byrd Show in his home in California.
And what I want to stress here is what Robin was able to create was so wholesome. Like, yes,
she's a porn star.
She's mostly talking to other porn stars, and sometimes they get naked. But she's also doing it
with, like, this Mister Rogers, kindergarten teacher energy that just puts everyone at ease.
People talk about watching this show with their mothers, and people say that Robin Byrd made
them feel less alone because she's essentially inviting her friends, right, who just so happened
to be some of the coolest porn stars, performance artists, and advocates, to come and hang out
with her on camera and talk about their sexual proclivities but, like, not in a weird way.
And Robin loves being a television show host, and she absolutely thrives on it. So in addition to
(02:49):
The Robin Byrd Show, she also starts this much shorter-lived fitness class show called Modern
Women, which she says is in response to all of the people asking her how she maintains her
figure in the black knit bikini every night.
And it turns out that the answer is weightlifting. Now, I think this is remarkable, in part because I
lift weights, and also because of the very long history of people discouraging women from lifting
heavy and the equally long history of sex workers doing it. Anyway, a lot of the people that
we've covered on this show have been weightlifters (02:55):
Mae West, Marilyn Monroe, Bettie Page,
And in 1988, Robin Byrd not only participated in a bodybuilding competition but tried to spread
the good news about lifting weights to women when that was not the fitness trend. Now, Robin
was never paid for any of this work, right. She wasn't paid to host Modern Women, and she
wasn't paid for The Robin Byrd Show.
In fact, for the first 12 years of hosting it, Robin didn't even sell ad time, which means that the
show was generating $0. She was supported by her partner, Shelly, and worked as a go-go
dancer in New Jersey for cash. And later, when the cost of airtime went up, she did start selling
ads for phone sex lines and escort ads, but she never made enough money to pay herself.
Now Robin was able to keep going for a lot of reasons, right? First of all, this is someone who
really believes in herself. At 13 years old, she believed in herself enough to walk away from a
financially comfortable home to find her people. This is also someone who had the foresight,
and maybe the sheer luck to take courses in film production and business, which gave her the
ability to execute her vision.
She was really in the right place at the right time, with the right skills to produce this television
show for close to 20 years. And because of her tenacity or compulsion or whatever it is that
drives her to do this, you can still watch The Robin Byrd Show in Manhattan today. She ensures
that it plays twice a day, every day. And maybe it's because she felt rejected by her own family,
or because she has a lot of love to give. But whatever the reason, Robin felt compelled to
connect to her audience at a time when the people she was speaking to really needed it.
00;22;50;26 [Break]
(03:16):
00;25;49;02
On July 3rd, 1981, an infamous New York Times headline read “Rare Cancer Seen in 41
Homosexuals.” This, of course, was the AIDS epidemic. So in the 1980s, people in Robin's life,
the people she's been making art with and hanging out with and having sex with start to die.
Sex workers and the queer community, of course, have always been deeply connected, and
Robin herself is bisexual. She is in community with bi and gay men, and it is a very scary time
for the sexually liberated.
And as the pandemic unfolds, Robin makes space not just for other sex workers like Annie
Sprinkle and Candida Royalle and the folks from Club 90 who were very active during the AIDS
crisis but also folks doing critical public health education and outreach. Robin famously did a live
demo on how to make and use a dental dam on her show.
She helped elevate the people who were doing the up-close, gritty work of not just talking at
people about safer sex, but demonstrating literally what that looks like and giving people the
language and the scripts and making the whole conversation a lot less weird. I don't think it's an
overstatement to say that Robin Byrd saved people's lives by making it easier for them to talk
about safer sex.
What's remarkable about her show is how demystifying and destigmatizing it was without trying
to be, Right, Robin is not an activist. She's a performer. But she's inviting on this revolving door
of, like, queer, unabashed, kinky people and talking to them like a normal person.
The Robin Byrd Show has some of the first trans representation on television, and I don't think
it's an accident that that was brought to you by a sex worker who had to ask zero people's
(03:37):
permission to do that. She's not telling people to create a safe space for gay people or sex
workers. She's not fighting to change laws. She's showing people what creating a warm, safe
space looks like. Expanding people's imagination of what's possible.
And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people fell in love with her. And because The
Robin Byrd Show was such a self-contained ecosystem. Robin was able to create an
environment where she's not advocating for acceptance. She's showing you what that looks like.
And that's why so many people connected to her and her show, because Robin is speaking
directly to people in their living rooms, often lonely people, isolated people, stigmatized and
sometimes sick people. She's not telling them it's okay. She's showing them that it's okay.
Now, of course, outside of The Robin Byrd Show, the larger public response to the AIDS crisis is
a moral panic around homosexuality, sex work and porn. In 1986, the Meese Report on
Pornography is published, which, using a combination of bad social science that led to even
worse laws, found that pornography was a direct contributor of violence and responsible for a
wide range of socially objectionable behavior. And shortly after that report, the government
effectively abandoned HIV/AIDS patients to die.
Now, of course, ACT UP is formed in response to this and tries to not only educate the public
about the ongoing pandemic but socially bully legislators into trying to do something about it.
But even so, there are multiple anti-pornography demonstrations on the streets of New York that
are effectively trying to blame porn for the HIV/AIDS crisis.
And so The Robin Byrd Show becomes this light in a really dark time, because despite all of the
death and the discrimination and the hatred, Robin and her people on her show are having a
(03:58):
great time. Decades before podcasts or live streaming or all of the media that informs our
culture today, Robin is showing us the power of a fun hang.
And among certain circles Robin's celebrity grows, she's invited to do a couple of movies with
Sandra Bernhard and Michael J. Fox, and she becomes a recognizable character in the media,
cultural and artistic capital of the world.
00;30;42;07 [Break]
00;31;54;24
So I've said before that Robin was not a traditional activist. Right, she didn't lobby or march or
urge people to sign petitions, but she did become a bit of a free speech activist in the 1990s,
when her show got caught up in the larger campaign to censor so-called indecent content on
channel 35.
Now, what happened was Al Goldstein, a pornographer, creator of Screw magazine, and
provocateur, had a much more explicit show called Midnight Blue, which also aired on leased
access cable television in Manhattan.
So in 1990, Al Goldstein sued Time Warner Cable for censoring his show, which was in direct
violation of a New York state law which prohibited censorship specifically on leased access
cable. And in the middle of that ongoing litigation, Congress passed the Cable Act in 1992 as a
part of their big anti-porn moral panic, right? This law was spearheaded by Jesse Helms. And
just like many of the worst ideas today, it had enthusiastic bipartisan support. And what this did
is it allowed cable companies to censor so-called obscene content.
And the other thing that was happening in the 1990s is that pay-per-view had just come along,
(04:19):
which created a financial incentive for cable companies to isolate, segregate and get their
viewers to pay for spicy content.
And so, Time Warner Cable, in the midst of this litigation and legislation, combined all of the free
dirty shows onto one channel and threatened to preemptively scramble the content on that
channel unless one of their cable subscribers wrote them a letter declaring that they were the
policy holder, that they were over the age of 18, and that they wanted to watch channel 35,
which included Al Goldstein’s show, Midnight Blue and The Robin Byrd Show. And so this is
when Robin Byrd becomes a part of this ongoing fight with the cable companies against
censorship.
And as a part of that fight, Robin did a ton of media. She talks to the press. She does a bunch of
mainstream talk shows. In fact, this is Robin Byrd on The Phil Donahue Show on September
10th, 1990.
[PD] For all the Byrd watchers, as you call your fans in New York, is this it? Fine?
[RB] Well, I'm putting up a big fight. I'm not going to give up the fight. My fans are
behind me 100%. They're anticensorship. It's not only for my adult shows, but it's for my
non-adult shows as well. Yeah, it's for the freedom of speech and expression, it’s the
American way.
[PD] You know, your channel is being taken over by C-SPAN.
[RB] And I know–
[PD] Maybe you could get on C-SPAN?
[RB] I'll be on C-SPAN when we're up in the Senate and the Supreme Court when we're
(04:40):
fighting this, because this is where it all started.
So after years of confusing litigation like, look, I've read through the case history on this, and it's
a jumble of state and federal and cable company policy. And there's a lot of moving goalposts
and technicalities. But in 1996, after years of confusing litigation, Robin won. She got to keep
her show free and unscrambled to the public. And that made Robin a bit of a local folk hero.
Now, look, I got to say, reading through the case history on this was excruciating. Right the
cases are convoluted, and there's a lot of moving parts and technical distinctions between
federal and state and company policy.
But long story short, there are and have always been a lot of people willing to blame sexual
content for social problems and the right to speak your mind or show your body or talk frankly
about sex and sexuality will always have to be defended over and over again. So even though
sex workers are early adopters, we helped popularize new technology and media. As soon as
something becomes popular enough people will try to kick us off the platforms that we helped
build.
But in 1996, Robin Byrd won a small victory not just for herself, but for all of the sexy content
creators to come after her.
After almost 20 years on the air, after contentious litigation, in 1998, at the age of 41, Robin
decided to call it quits. She wasn't run off the air. She wasn't censored. She just decided that
she wasn't having all that much fun anymore. Culture had changed. It was no longer
sensationalist or even especially provocative to take your tits out on TV.
And Robin, who was getting older, and maybe the prospect of putting on a knit bikini to dance
(05:01):
around on camera wasn't as appealing as it used to be. And she was ready to spend more time
with her husband.
In 1992, Robin and Shelly bought a house, a house that they still live in, actually out on Fire
Island. And after leaving the show, that's where she started spending most of her time on the
beach with Shelly. And then she got herself a dog,
And Robin enjoyed and continues to enjoy her celebrity status. The Robin Byrd Show was
parodied on Saturday Night Live. She did a couple of Off-Broadway shows. She's even invited
to participate in something called the Weekly Speedo Bulge Contest on Fire Island, which I hope
is exactly what it sounds like.
And she keeps busy with endless fundraisers and cultural events produced by the people that
make the good art in New York City. Because Robin Byrd is still a cool girl in a cool scene,
surrounded by cool people doing cool things.
And today, Robin is the full time caretaker of her home and also of Shelly, who is showing
symptoms of dementia and needs a lot of her attention.
But the connection between them is undeniable. Robin brings Shelly a lot of comfort, and even
though he is losing his memories, he obviously loves her very much. Now, Shelly spent many,
many years making Robin's dreams possible, and Robin was never in a position of having to do
any of this for money. And that gave her the ability to do as she pleased.
She platformed and created an archive of conversations and candid moments with people
whose voices and stories we may otherwise have never gotten to hear. And we are all the
beneficiaries of that.
(05:22):
Robin was a voice in the darkness to a generation of people who have gone on to make
destigmatizing, humanizing content. Robin Byrd inspired the people that moved this movement
forward. And we are all in her debt.
But in addition to her cultural impact, Robin is an example of what we love to celebrate on this
show. She is someone who took control of her own life, and who succeeded in carving out a
place for herself in the world, not in spite of her sex work, but because of it.
[Closing music]
00;40;05;19
I want to give a special thank you to Jyliian Gunther and Stephanie Schwam for all of their
research and helping to shape this episode. And I also want to personally thank Robin Byrd for
telling and preserving her story, and also for sitting down with me and answering all of my
questions.
[Episode Sponsor]
00;41;10;12
Thank you so much for listening to The Oldest Profession podcast.
This season was produced and audio engineered by Bambi Rising, with original music from
Adra Boo. Research support was provided by the Sex/Tech Lab at the New School. And I want
to give a special shout out to our volunteer intern for helping us clean up our transcript–thank
you so much, Maya Shook.
The Oldest Profession podcast is one of many projects produced by Old Pros. And remember,
we have a resource guide that goes with every episode. You can find out more at
(05:43):
OldProsOnline.org.
Episode Link
(00:01):
00;00;00;00
Welcome back to the Oldest Profession podcast. I'm your host, Kaytlin Bailey. And today I'm
going to tell you about Robin Byrd.
Now, if you didn't grow up watching late-night leased cable access television in Manhattan from
1977 until 1998, then you might not know who Robin Byrd is and why she's so important. But
like so many of the old pros we talk about on the show, Robin Byrd was an unapologetic sex
worker, freedom fighter, and innovator.
She conceived, produced and hosted a wildly popular television show by herself. She created a
frank, funny, educational show that reached the queer community of Manhattan at a time when it
mattered the most. Let's talk about how she did it.
[Opening music]
00;02;07;25
Robin was born April 6th, 1954 and given up for adoption almost immediately. Now, we don't
know much about the specific circumstances surrounding her birth but we do know that Robin's
adoptive mother couldn't conceive naturally. And in 1954 at the height of the baby boom, a lot of
families wanted to adopt children. Now her adoptive mother and her father were both from
prominent Jewish families in New York City, and they adopted Robin as an infant. Listening to
Robin talk about her childhood, it's clear that there was a lot of tension between her and her
adoptive mother. Robin describes her adoptive mother as looking like Elizabeth Taylor and
having really only unkind, unflattering things to say about Robin.
We know that the family dynamic was pretty toxic. In fact, Robin's adoptive parents got divorced
(00:22):
when she was only six years old, which was very unusual in the 1960s. And in another unusual
move, Robin chose to live with her adoptive father, but unfortunately, after only two years, when
Robin was eight years old, he died and she was forced to move back in with her abusive and
controlling adoptive mother.
And things got bad enough that Robin made the bold choice, at 13 years old, to run away from
home and take her chances in Central Park. She thought that was better than the fancy facade
that was a cover for an abusive environment.
So Robin runs away in 1967, and she is a smart but 13-year-old person, and at first she stays
with friends.
She spends a couple of nights in the park sleeping outside. She also finds a boyfriend who
gives her a place to stay, and like a lot of runaways, she trades sex and intimacy and friendship
to get her basic survival needs met. But once Robin gets a handle on the basics, finds a place
to live, figures out how to feed herself, she immediately starts taking classes.
She starts out at Baruch College studying marketing, but she really finds her people at the
School of Visual Arts, where she starts exploring the film and television department, learning all
about this new, exciting technology and how it works. She also starts posing nude for art
classes on campus, exploring her own self-described exhibitionism and bisexuality.
Now look, even at 69 years old, I would describe Robin as a bit of a flirt and I'm sure that was
100% true for the 17-year-old, who was just dipping her toe into college classes. And again,
Robin is in a rapidly changing New York City, and she is very much a part of the pro-sex, pro-art,
pro-new ideas scene that's emerging. So not only is she posing nude for art classes, but she's
(00:43):
also going to orgies, experimenting with her own sexuality, and living this free, unbridled artistic
life. It's certainly not what her adoptive mother would have chosen for her. But Robin took one
look at middle class, respectable American society and chose to have a good time.
So while Robin is taking classes and posing nude for artists and aspiring artists, learning a little
bit about television and film production, she meets a man named Shelly. Now, the story of their
meet cute is a little unconventional.
They met on Fire Island at the height of the free-love era. Robin described herself as the orgy
queen at the time, and she was, according to legend, getting absolutely railed by somebody
called the Golden Superman. And it was actually her cries of orgasmic, enthusiastic pleasure
that caught the attention of Shelly, a nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn who worked in advertising
and just so happened to be staying in the same house as Robin. And based on everything that
I've learned about him, he would never have found himself in a similar situation.
Now, Robin is not someone that anyone would describe as a shy person. So as soon as she
knew that she got this cute boy's attention, she introduced herself, started hanging around,
making herself available and by all accounts, slowly seduced this very kind guy with a super
normal job who could not help himself but fall head over heels for the undeniable Robin Byrd.
So they start their relationship. Robin continues to work as a model and dancer. She starts
getting into porn, and she ends up becoming the cultural icon that we know and love today with
the full, quiet, consistent support of her partner.
00;07;28;12 [Break]
00;08;54;14
(01:04):
So in 1972, Deep Throat premiered and changed the relationship between pornography and the
mainstream. Now, we've talked about this film many times on the podcast before, and it is
difficult to overstate the impact that it had on culture. Everyone was talking about this movie. I
mean, Jackie Kennedy Onassis, Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson were all at the premiere.
This is the film that begins the era of porn chic, and it's also the film that activates the anti-porn
feminist movement. Really, starting with Deep Throat, the feminist movement in the United
States shifts its focus from access to reproductive health care, expanding access to
contraception and abortion, labor protections, making sure that women had access to male
dominated spaces and becomes absolutely obsessed with pornography as a symbol of violence
against women. And this divides the feminist movement for decades. And it's a division that still
exists today. And Robin Byrd was firmly on the side of people having sex for fun.
In fact, in 1974, a then 21-year-old Robin Byrd participated in the Miss All Bare America contest
at the Beacon Theatre in New York City, which is exactly what it sounds like.
It's like Miss America, but butt naked and therefore subversive. Now, look, I don't know if you
guys are familiar with the brand of Miss America, but it's basically a contest for, like, how to be a
trad wife harder. But the Miss All Bare America pageant, no one is competing to be anyone's
wife. And in this way, it really is a feminist statement.
So between the nude modeling and the Miss All Bare America pageant, it starts to occur to
Robin that there might be a real opportunity here to make a living. And pretty quickly, she's
recruited by a production company to participate in something called loops which we talked
about on the Candida Royalle episode. Now, this is a form of cheaply-produced pornography,
(01:25):
often a single sex act that is on a single loop, which is how it got its name.
And this is often people's first entry into the world of pornography during this era and Robin is
told by this production company that 1) she gets to have sex with people she’s already having
orgies with, an activity she obviously loves, 2) that she'll be paid for that act, a revelatory for any
college student, and 3), and I think this is important context that this particular loop would
exclusively be available to people in Sweden outside of the United States. And it's hard to
imagine knowing anyone from Sweden. So it's a pretty easy yes for Robin.
Robin describes a gentle transition from art modeling into pornography. And this is an
experience she shares with Candida Royalle, who we covered on the show, but also figures like
Annie Sprinkle and Veronica Vera, who are hanging out with an artistic, sexually-liberated
crowd. And the cool kids in the 1970s are making porn.
In 1978, Robin lands the role of Mrs. Hardwicke in Debbie Does Dallas, which is regarded as
one of the most important releases during the Golden Age of Porn.
This, of course, solidifies Robin's reputation and position among the porn stars she's already
hanging out with. And Robin is very much in the scene of people who are not only making porn,
but making, like, the most popular porn.
So in 1977, at 23 years old, Robin was very much a part of the sexual creative class in New
York. She had a fun, bubbly personality and a bit but memorable part in one of the hottest porn
films at the height of the porn chic moment. So it made sense when she was invited to guest
host a show called Hot Legs, a show that was on leased cable access television.
Now leased cable access television started in 1971, when Manhattan Cable Television first
(01:46):
started offering public access programming, which allowed someone, anyone to rent airtime in
studio space to air these live talk shows or whatever. Now, this was formed with the intention of
giving people from underserved communities access to build communities, share information,
and get on this new technology. So in the 1970s, for $25, you could rent half an hour of leased
cable access television.
And look, just to give you a little bit of context and an example, one of the first leased cable
access shows is called Oxygen Junkies. And it was a show by and for scuba diving enthusiasts.
Remember, this is before YouTube. This is before TikTok. It's before everyone and their mother
has the ability to speak directly to camera, to a chosen audience, often live from the studio.
So the folks behind Hot Legs, like so many sex worker creatives that came before them, are
truly at the cutting edge of a new technology, often using sex work to fund their own passion
projects like this talk show. Hot Legs was initially run by this guy who made money in porn and
he used the show to bring on the people that he was working with, who would then take calls
from the live audience. So anyone in Manhattan could, like, tune in to this free access cable
show and call a number and talk to the porn star, right, that was speaking.
And sometimes these live audience calls got verbally abusive. So abusive, in fact, that Robin
was reluctant to do the show at first. She was invited several times before agreeing to host, but
when she did, she had a different experience. She brought this gentle, playful, domme energy
that really helped curtail the baser instincts of some of her callers.
First of all, Robin had no problems hanging up on people she didn't like for any reason. Now,
look, I have a lot of respect for Robin, and one of the things that I love the most about her is her
(02:07):
willingness to say no to things that are not for her. Right? This is someone who ran away from
home at 13. She dropped out of college, and she hung up on callers whose vibes were off.
So Robin becomes a regular host on this show called Hot Legs, and audiences respond to her
immediately. She develops a bit of a following, and she loves doing the show. But one day she
shows up to set and no one's there.
It turns out that the guy that was producing Hot Legs was in a ton of debt to the studio, actually,
and so he shut down production of the show rather than pay those bills. And so Robin asked the
crew and the folks that were hanging around the studio if she could take over the show, and the
guy sort of gently suggests like, hey, yeah, I guess if you want to pay this guy's debts, you can
run Hot Legs if you really want to. But if you just want to run your own show with no preexisting
debt, you should call it something else.
And that is how The Robin Byrd Show was born.
So Robin Byrd starts hosting The Robin Byrd Show. And I think it's important to point out, by the
way, that the only other people who are asking questions on TV every night are white dudes
during this era, right?
And remember, Robin is not only the producer, but also the set designer, the editor, the writer,
the coordinator. She's literally picking up guests in her car on her way to the studio. She is the
creative director of the show and also the star talent. There are zero barriers between Robin
Byrd's vision and her ability to execute it.
And Robin's partner Shelly, who she starts calling her head gopher on the show, by the way,
gets her a sign that reads in red lights, “The Robin Byrd Show,” inside of this beautiful heart, and
(02:28):
she designs this all red set. She starts wearing this soon-to-be iconic, custom-made, black
crochet bikini that shows everything and also nothing and then finishes the look with white nail
polish.
And Robin, as a host and as a creative director, is very aware that she is in direct-to-camera
conversation with her audience, and she brings this really fun energy. Folks at the time
described the show as, like, a combination of Mister Rogers meets Debbie Does Dallas. She
starts reading her audience, like, these fun bedtime stories and she ends that segment by
saying that she wants to turn you on and tuck you in. How cute is that? And the show is really
popular, even though it's only available in Manhattan.
People start taping the show and mailing it to their friends all over the country. In fact, according
to rumor or legend or what have you, when Sammy Davis Jr. died, people found dozens and
dozens of VHS tapes of The Robin Byrd Show in his home in California.
And what I want to stress here is what Robin was able to create was so wholesome. Like, yes,
she's a porn star.
She's mostly talking to other porn stars, and sometimes they get naked. But she's also doing it
with, like, this Mister Rogers, kindergarten teacher energy that just puts everyone at ease.
People talk about watching this show with their mothers, and people say that Robin Byrd made
them feel less alone because she's essentially inviting her friends, right, who just so happened
to be some of the coolest porn stars, performance artists, and advocates, to come and hang out
with her on camera and talk about their sexual proclivities but, like, not in a weird way.
And Robin loves being a television show host, and she absolutely thrives on it. So in addition to
(02:49):
The Robin Byrd Show, she also starts this much shorter-lived fitness class show called Modern
Women, which she says is in response to all of the people asking her how she maintains her
figure in the black knit bikini every night.
And it turns out that the answer is weightlifting. Now, I think this is remarkable, in part because I
lift weights, and also because of the very long history of people discouraging women from lifting
heavy and the equally long history of sex workers doing it. Anyway, a lot of the people that
we've covered on this show have been weightlifters (02:55):
Mae West, Marilyn Monroe, Bettie Page,
And in 1988, Robin Byrd not only participated in a bodybuilding competition but tried to spread
the good news about lifting weights to women when that was not the fitness trend. Now, Robin
was never paid for any of this work, right. She wasn't paid to host Modern Women, and she
wasn't paid for The Robin Byrd Show.
In fact, for the first 12 years of hosting it, Robin didn't even sell ad time, which means that the
show was generating $0. She was supported by her partner, Shelly, and worked as a go-go
dancer in New Jersey for cash. And later, when the cost of airtime went up, she did start selling
ads for phone sex lines and escort ads, but she never made enough money to pay herself.
Now Robin was able to keep going for a lot of reasons, right? First of all, this is someone who
really believes in herself. At 13 years old, she believed in herself enough to walk away from a
financially comfortable home to find her people. This is also someone who had the foresight,
and maybe the sheer luck to take courses in film production and business, which gave her the
ability to execute her vision.
She was really in the right place at the right time, with the right skills to produce this television
show for close to 20 years. And because of her tenacity or compulsion or whatever it is that
drives her to do this, you can still watch The Robin Byrd Show in Manhattan today. She ensures
that it plays twice a day, every day. And maybe it's because she felt rejected by her own family,
or because she has a lot of love to give. But whatever the reason, Robin felt compelled to
connect to her audience at a time when the people she was speaking to really needed it.
00;22;50;26 [Break]
(03:16):
00;25;49;02
On July 3rd, 1981, an infamous New York Times headline read “Rare Cancer Seen in 41
Homosexuals.” This, of course, was the AIDS epidemic. So in the 1980s, people in Robin's life,
the people she's been making art with and hanging out with and having sex with start to die.
Sex workers and the queer community, of course, have always been deeply connected, and
Robin herself is bisexual. She is in community with bi and gay men, and it is a very scary time
for the sexually liberated.
And as the pandemic unfolds, Robin makes space not just for other sex workers like Annie
Sprinkle and Candida Royalle and the folks from Club 90 who were very active during the AIDS
crisis but also folks doing critical public health education and outreach. Robin famously did a live
demo on how to make and use a dental dam on her show.
She helped elevate the people who were doing the up-close, gritty work of not just talking at
people about safer sex, but demonstrating literally what that looks like and giving people the
language and the scripts and making the whole conversation a lot less weird. I don't think it's an
overstatement to say that Robin Byrd saved people's lives by making it easier for them to talk
about safer sex.
What's remarkable about her show is how demystifying and destigmatizing it was without trying
to be, Right, Robin is not an activist. She's a performer. But she's inviting on this revolving door
of, like, queer, unabashed, kinky people and talking to them like a normal person.
The Robin Byrd Show has some of the first trans representation on television, and I don't think
it's an accident that that was brought to you by a sex worker who had to ask zero people's
(03:37):
permission to do that. She's not telling people to create a safe space for gay people or sex
workers. She's not fighting to change laws. She's showing people what creating a warm, safe
space looks like. Expanding people's imagination of what's possible.
And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people fell in love with her. And because The
Robin Byrd Show was such a self-contained ecosystem. Robin was able to create an
environment where she's not advocating for acceptance. She's showing you what that looks like.
And that's why so many people connected to her and her show, because Robin is speaking
directly to people in their living rooms, often lonely people, isolated people, stigmatized and
sometimes sick people. She's not telling them it's okay. She's showing them that it's okay.
Now, of course, outside of The Robin Byrd Show, the larger public response to the AIDS crisis is
a moral panic around homosexuality, sex work and porn. In 1986, the Meese Report on
Pornography is published, which, using a combination of bad social science that led to even
worse laws, found that pornography was a direct contributor of violence and responsible for a
wide range of socially objectionable behavior. And shortly after that report, the government
effectively abandoned HIV/AIDS patients to die.
Now, of course, ACT UP is formed in response to this and tries to not only educate the public
about the ongoing pandemic but socially bully legislators into trying to do something about it.
But even so, there are multiple anti-pornography demonstrations on the streets of New York that
are effectively trying to blame porn for the HIV/AIDS crisis.
And so The Robin Byrd Show becomes this light in a really dark time, because despite all of the
death and the discrimination and the hatred, Robin and her people on her show are having a
(03:58):
great time. Decades before podcasts or live streaming or all of the media that informs our
culture today, Robin is showing us the power of a fun hang.
And among certain circles Robin's celebrity grows, she's invited to do a couple of movies with
Sandra Bernhard and Michael J. Fox, and she becomes a recognizable character in the media,
cultural and artistic capital of the world.
00;30;42;07 [Break]
00;31;54;24
So I've said before that Robin was not a traditional activist. Right, she didn't lobby or march or
urge people to sign petitions, but she did become a bit of a free speech activist in the 1990s,
when her show got caught up in the larger campaign to censor so-called indecent content on
channel 35.
Now, what happened was Al Goldstein, a pornographer, creator of Screw magazine, and
provocateur, had a much more explicit show called Midnight Blue, which also aired on leased
access cable television in Manhattan.
So in 1990, Al Goldstein sued Time Warner Cable for censoring his show, which was in direct
violation of a New York state law which prohibited censorship specifically on leased access
cable. And in the middle of that ongoing litigation, Congress passed the Cable Act in 1992 as a
part of their big anti-porn moral panic, right? This law was spearheaded by Jesse Helms. And
just like many of the worst ideas today, it had enthusiastic bipartisan support. And what this did
is it allowed cable companies to censor so-called obscene content.
And the other thing that was happening in the 1990s is that pay-per-view had just come along,
(04:19):
which created a financial incentive for cable companies to isolate, segregate and get their
viewers to pay for spicy content.
And so, Time Warner Cable, in the midst of this litigation and legislation, combined all of the free
dirty shows onto one channel and threatened to preemptively scramble the content on that
channel unless one of their cable subscribers wrote them a letter declaring that they were the
policy holder, that they were over the age of 18, and that they wanted to watch channel 35,
which included Al Goldstein’s show, Midnight Blue and The Robin Byrd Show. And so this is
when Robin Byrd becomes a part of this ongoing fight with the cable companies against
censorship.
And as a part of that fight, Robin did a ton of media. She talks to the press. She does a bunch of
mainstream talk shows. In fact, this is Robin Byrd on The Phil Donahue Show on September
10th, 1990.
[PD] For all the Byrd watchers, as you call your fans in New York, is this it? Fine?
[RB] Well, I'm putting up a big fight. I'm not going to give up the fight. My fans are
behind me 100%. They're anticensorship. It's not only for my adult shows, but it's for my
non-adult shows as well. Yeah, it's for the freedom of speech and expression, it’s the
American way.
[PD] You know, your channel is being taken over by C-SPAN.
[RB] And I know–
[PD] Maybe you could get on C-SPAN?
[RB] I'll be on C-SPAN when we're up in the Senate and the Supreme Court when we're
(04:40):
fighting this, because this is where it all started.
So after years of confusing litigation like, look, I've read through the case history on this, and it's
a jumble of state and federal and cable company policy. And there's a lot of moving goalposts
and technicalities. But in 1996, after years of confusing litigation, Robin won. She got to keep
her show free and unscrambled to the public. And that made Robin a bit of a local folk hero.
Now, look, I got to say, reading through the case history on this was excruciating. Right the
cases are convoluted, and there's a lot of moving parts and technical distinctions between
federal and state and company policy.
But long story short, there are and have always been a lot of people willing to blame sexual
content for social problems and the right to speak your mind or show your body or talk frankly
about sex and sexuality will always have to be defended over and over again. So even though
sex workers are early adopters, we helped popularize new technology and media. As soon as
something becomes popular enough people will try to kick us off the platforms that we helped
build.
But in 1996, Robin Byrd won a small victory not just for herself, but for all of the sexy content
creators to come after her.
After almost 20 years on the air, after contentious litigation, in 1998, at the age of 41, Robin
decided to call it quits. She wasn't run off the air. She wasn't censored. She just decided that
she wasn't having all that much fun anymore. Culture had changed. It was no longer
sensationalist or even especially provocative to take your tits out on TV.
And Robin, who was getting older, and maybe the prospect of putting on a knit bikini to dance
(05:01):
around on camera wasn't as appealing as it used to be. And she was ready to spend more time
with her husband.
In 1992, Robin and Shelly bought a house, a house that they still live in, actually out on Fire
Island. And after leaving the show, that's where she started spending most of her time on the
beach with Shelly. And then she got herself a dog,
And Robin enjoyed and continues to enjoy her celebrity status. The Robin Byrd Show was
parodied on Saturday Night Live. She did a couple of Off-Broadway shows. She's even invited
to participate in something called the Weekly Speedo Bulge Contest on Fire Island, which I hope
is exactly what it sounds like.
And she keeps busy with endless fundraisers and cultural events produced by the people that
make the good art in New York City. Because Robin Byrd is still a cool girl in a cool scene,
surrounded by cool people doing cool things.
And today, Robin is the full time caretaker of her home and also of Shelly, who is showing
symptoms of dementia and needs a lot of her attention.
But the connection between them is undeniable. Robin brings Shelly a lot of comfort, and even
though he is losing his memories, he obviously loves her very much. Now, Shelly spent many,
many years making Robin's dreams possible, and Robin was never in a position of having to do
any of this for money. And that gave her the ability to do as she pleased.
She platformed and created an archive of conversations and candid moments with people
whose voices and stories we may otherwise have never gotten to hear. And we are all the
beneficiaries of that.
(05:22):
Robin was a voice in the darkness to a generation of people who have gone on to make
destigmatizing, humanizing content. Robin Byrd inspired the people that moved this movement
forward. And we are all in her debt.
But in addition to her cultural impact, Robin is an example of what we love to celebrate on this
show. She is someone who took control of her own life, and who succeeded in carving out a
place for herself in the world, not in spite of her sex work, but because of it.
[Closing music]
00;40;05;19
I want to give a special thank you to Jyliian Gunther and Stephanie Schwam for all of their
research and helping to shape this episode. And I also want to personally thank Robin Byrd for
telling and preserving her story, and also for sitting down with me and answering all of my
questions.
[Episode Sponsor]
00;41;10;12
Thank you so much for listening to The Oldest Profession podcast.
This season was produced and audio engineered by Bambi Rising, with original music from
Adra Boo. Research support was provided by the Sex/Tech Lab at the New School. And I want
to give a special shout out to our volunteer intern for helping us clean up our transcript–thank
you so much, Maya Shook.
The Oldest Profession podcast is one of many projects produced by Old Pros. And remember,
we have a resource guide that goes with every episode. You can find out more at
(05:43):
OldProsOnline.org.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.