April 30, 2025 • 65 mins
Why do we glorify being busy, and how can we shift to meaningful productivity? In episode 169 of the Overlap Podcast, hosts Sid Sexton and Keith Glines dive into the critical difference between being busy and being productive. They explore how modern culture perpetuates the "busy" badge of honor and share actionable strategies to stay focused in a world full of distractions. From leveraging the Pareto Principle to mastering calendar management, this episode offers practical insights for entrepreneurs, leaders, and anyone striving to make an impact in their work and life. Tune in to learn how to align your efforts with your goals and thrive in any season of life.
What You Will Learn
- How to distinguish between busyness and productivity
- Strategies to identify and focus on your most impactful tasks
- Practical tools for leaders to define success for their teams
- Techniques to manage your calendar and say "no" effectively
Key Topics Discussed
- The cultural pressure to always be "busy" and its impact on productivity
- How the 80/20 rule (Pareto Principle) can transform your approach to work
- Mark as PlayedTranscript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sid (00:00):
Just look at why are you so busy?
(00:02):
Is it good busy?
If you're so busy you feellike a boat up Halloween cat.
You might want to, uh, Igot a friend that says that.
How you doing buddy?
Oh man.
I'm boat up like a Halloween cat.
I'm like, golly.
(00:24):
Hey everybody, and welcome to anotherepisode of the Overlap podcast, where
we dive into the intersections of work,fitness, family, faith, parenting,
and leadership, with the idea thatgrowth in one area of your life fuels
growth in all areas of your life.
That's the idea behind this podcast,and, uh, that's why we're committed
to taking lessons from business,breaking them down into simple,
(00:48):
actionable insights and empoweringsmall business leaders to thrive.
And our mission is to help reallyeveryone, not just entrepreneurs,
uh, to succeed and create meaningfulimpact in their businesses,
families, communities, and lives.
And, uh, how you doing, Keith?
I'm doing good,
Keith (01:06):
Sid.
Sid (01:07):
How are you?
I'm doing well.
We've not seen
Keith (01:08):
each
Sid (01:08):
other in a couple weeks.
Well, we've been passinglike, uh, you know.
Two ships in the night or whatever.
Yeah.
You are outta town.
I've been outta town,uh, sort of in and out.
Um, yeah, it's all right.
Staying in touch.
I know.
Keith (01:26):
And I'm
Sid (01:26):
traveling
Keith (01:27):
all week this next week too.
Yeah.
I'm out, I'm out a couple of days.
I got a conference.
I'm out Tuesday through Saturday.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Sid (01:34):
Okay.
Keith (01:36):
Um, I'm gonna be at the Berkshire investor
Sid (01:39):
Oh yeah.
With, with our buddy JoshThompson, with our buddy
Keith (01:41):
Josh.
And then I'm going to Atlantaon Tuesday, and I'm gonna fly
out of Atlanta to Berkshire.
Sid (01:46):
Okay.
The, uh, the Woodstock of capitalism,
Keith (01:51):
the wood stock of capitalism is if you've not been by one
share of Berkshire Hathaway.
Okay.
And you get a free ticket.
Sid (02:00):
Oh, there you go.
Keith (02:01):
Yep.
Sid (02:03):
And, uh, one share of Berkshire Hathaway is, is
probably a good investment.
Keith (02:06):
Uh, I think so.
I mean, it's.
500 bucks right now, I think.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
So, so not really a free ticket, nota not really free ticket, but it has
Sid (02:13):
value,
Keith (02:14):
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you don't have to buy anymore.
You, if you just keep it.
Oh, okay.
You can go year after year after year.
Oh, that's a good point.
Sid (02:22):
Yeah.
So, well, what happens when,um, when uh, when he dies,
Keith (02:30):
I, they'll keep won.
Do you think they'll keep it going?
The only reason I'm going this yearis because he's gonna die soon.
Sid (02:35):
He is gonna die.
Yeah.
I wish Charlie Munger was still alive.
That would be the bestto see both of them.
Keith (02:41):
Yeah, I didn't get to do that.
Yeah, it would, yeah.
That would've been the best.
Yep.
So, uh, last year was thefirst year I went and it was
exceptional and I learned a lot.
And I think just to be inculture of that, those, um,
quality of people.
(03:02):
Mm-hmm.
It's pretty cool to get to be around that.
It is cool.
And so that's why I'm makingthe effort to go again,
Sid (03:10):
Roger that.
Roger that.
Um, so it's been
Keith (03:15):
up
Sid (03:16):
with
Keith (03:16):
you,
Sid (03:17):
man.
Um, it's spring.
It's spring.
Um, it, we have, uh, you know, been,uh, it, it is been a good first quarter
and we had all of our quarterlies.
Uh, now the, uh, leadershipquarterly sort of sets the tone.
If you're, if you're familiar withEOS, you've got quarterly meetings.
(03:40):
Uh, and our either leadership,uh, offsite, quarterly sets
the tone and sets the, um.
The course for the next 90 days tostay on track for the annual goals.
And then the operations we'reso operations heavy, that
operations comes right after.
And then the sales team sort offollows up after that to, uh, help
(04:02):
support, you know, the leadershipagenda and the operations needs.
And, uh, that's what I've beenfocused on the last three weeks
really is kind of taking all of that.
Um, and then, then generally I willtake all of that information and create
a presentation to the team and what'scalled like the state of the company,
um, broad overview of the first quarterand, and, and kind of putting it into
(04:26):
a palatable format where everyone canunderstand and feel at least connected
with how the company's doing otherthan get your work done kind of stuff.
You know.
So that's what, that's, doyou address that in person?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
In person, uh, the whole
Keith (04:42):
team together.
Sid (04:43):
Yeah.
Well, uh, it's hard to do thatwith the, uh, the Foley branch.
Um, Justin will kind of headdown there and deliver that since
he's most connected to them.
Keith (04:52):
And his super wavy hair right now.
He's very wavy, dude.
He's, he's got locks for days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He, he's grown it out.
I walked by his office and I was like,
Sid (05:01):
ah.
Keith (05:03):
Trying, you've got great hair today.
Yeah.
He is trying
Sid (05:05):
to look like, uh, Fabio on the cover of, uh, yeah,
Keith (05:08):
like a, and he's working
Sid (05:09):
out and everything, you know?
Is he working out now?
Oh, yeah.
He is working out with Brent.
You haven't seen that?
Oh, yes.
With our buddies over at, uh, signaturetraining Studio, uh, he's doing yeah.
Personal training and,and Brent's killing him.
Good
Keith (05:22):
for him.
Sid (05:23):
I know.
Keith (05:24):
That's why he's growing his hair out.
Probably.
He thinks he's gonna get an ab
Sid (05:27):
Yeah.
One, uh, right now it's more of apony keg, but he is working on it.
Yeah.
That working on a six pack.
Uh, you went to Nashville?
Went to Nashville, hadsome meetings up there.
I saw you at Nashville.
MMA.
Yeah, I think that's, I thinkthat's Michael Chandler's gym is it?
Or something to do with it.
Really?
It, it, dude, a bunch of savages up there.
(05:48):
Bunch of young kids that are, uh, formercollege wrestlers and it was tough.
They do a lot of rounds too.
Hmm.
Like after the eighth round, Iwas like, Hey man, I got like
a whole day of meetings today.
I don't want to keep likekilling myself over here.
Uh, but it was great, man.
(06:09):
It was a great gym.
Did you see how big it was?
Yeah, they got huge.
Yeah.
They've got the whole Juujitsu side, thenthere's like this whole Muay Thai side.
Then there's this whole cage andthen they've got a whole CrossFit
area all kind of under one roof.
It was a, a cool, like used to be likea warehouse is what it looked like.
Kind of a big cinder block wall warehouse.
But they, they did it nice and they was.
(06:30):
God, there had to have been 20, 25dudes up in, up in that, uh, morning
class at 6:00 AM It was great.
I just got back from,uh, Gunville State Park.
You ever been there?
I have not actually.
You said that and I'veheard it's fantastic.
It's
Keith (06:45):
beautiful.
Sid (06:46):
Our, our, my friend Sean Sullivan, uh, loves it up there.
Yeah.
His show even says something about it.
Does it?
Okay.
Yeah.
Like
Keith (06:54):
the, the, his intro says something about from Bucks Gap.
Oh, no, that's what's his name?
That's,
Sid (07:03):
that's the political guy.
Oh, yeah.
Um,
Keith (07:06):
oh, what's his name?
Yeah.
But anyway.
Yeah.
Anyways.
Uh, on the same show?
Yeah, on the same on Sean's radio station.
Buck, right.
Buck Pocket.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Buck's Pocket to the beaches or something.
Is that,
Sid (07:14):
is that in, uh, gunners ville?
Yeah, it
Keith (07:16):
is.
Yeah.
I got to see Buck's Pocket.
What is that?
I think it's just a viewpoint.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sid (07:22):
So the, the, I've seen photos of downtown Gunners Mill.
Is that, yeah.
It's super cool.
Keith (07:26):
Yep.
Cool cigar shop right out on the water.
Oh, really?
Uh, on and, uh, there,there's, they built this new
development out there withreally cool restaurants and
sitting right out on the lake.
It's, they've got like awaterfront kind of area, huh?
Yeah.
Sid (07:45):
Yeah.
And it's sitting like on barges.
And for those that are not familiarwith the state of Alabama, lake
Gunners is like north, Northeast?
Yeah.
Northeast, yeah.
Is it north of Birmingham?
Keith (07:56):
Yep.
A little bit.
I mean, no, not north of itwould be east of Birmingham.
Sid (07:59):
East of Birmingham?
Keith (08:01):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
How do you get there?
You, uh, I 59.
59 59. And then you take littlepig railroads to, to get there
and there's a hotel there.
It's, it's really great.
You should check it out.
What was the hotel?
Did you stay at a hotel?
Yeah, we stayed at the State Park Hotel.
Oh, the state park has a hotel.
Yeah.
And the view out of thethe room is beautiful.
(08:23):
Really?
Yeah.
I mean, it's a typical state parkhotel, so it's nothing special.
Yeah.
But the view absolutely amazing.
Have you
Sid (08:31):
stayed at the state park down at the beach?
Keith (08:33):
No, I haven't either.
But it looks awesome.
Yeah.
Then they, the recentupdates are really nice.
I was just at an event there.
Um, and their event space is super nice.
Sid (08:43):
Hmm.
You love, you love an
Keith (08:45):
event.
No, I don't.
Yeah, you do.
I just have to be it up a lot.
Yeah.
You're,
Sid (08:48):
you're, you're at more events than, than, than our buddy Forest.
Yeah.
Forest dur loves an event.
Yeah, he does.
And, and the swag bags.
Keith (08:56):
Yeah.
Well, I do like some swag.
I got a really cool hat.
You're gonna be jealous of where?
At this thing?
At the, oh yeah.
Is it a
Sid (09:04):
melon
Keith (09:04):
hat?
Uh, no it's not.
But it's a new company that is, uh, I'mordering some, so I'm gonna get some,
but I'm not giving, it's not Richardson.
Nope.
Okay's not.
It's called like a SC or something.
Okay.
It's out of New Zealand.
New Zealand.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but anyway, um, it was anoutdoor recreation conference.
Um, and the state is doing some really,really cool stuff in that environment.
(09:29):
And they had those ofus, us thought leaders.
Sid (09:32):
Oh my God.
Keith (09:33):
To talk about it.
Sid (09:34):
Molly Mi Miller is rolling her.
Dr. Molly Miller is rolling her eyes.
Yeah, she's hard right now.
Uh, okay.
Li listen.
All right.
We, we got, we got allthat out of the way folks.
And, and thanks for sticking with us song.
Yeah.
We've not seen
Keith (09:50):
each other in a couple weeks.
Yeah.
So,
Sid (09:53):
so those are the happenings.
Uh, I did see you train this morning.
I did train.
I'm glad, glad to see youhaven't quit, juujitsu.
I have not.
You got, you got a littlemark on your nose there.
I bet I do.
That.
That is, uh, that is themark of gh, new Juujitsu,
Keith (10:07):
uh, Jose.
Pinpointed me and said,go get him this morning.
Oh, good.
To all the young bucks.
Yeah.
And they tried.
Sid (10:15):
Yeah, that's right.
Tried
Keith (10:17):
is the word.
Sid (10:18):
Yeah.
Well, so, so, so if anyone ev anyoneev, if anyone ever comes to, um,
check Matt Daphne, the morningclass for sure is the place to come.
Uh, because lunchtime class is brutal.
Brutal.
That's, that's where all the savages are.
And night class man, there'sgetting to be some good folks there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a little bit harder.
(10:39):
Uh, but morning class, yeah, youcan, you can get by morning class
and everyone's still half asleep.
Keith (10:45):
Yeah.
Sid (10:47):
Uh, okay.
So today, um, today we're talkingabout a topic that Keith and I
have, have, we, we've got a wholelot of experience recently in this.
Um, our lives has, uh, have.
Morphed into a lot of this.
And this is an, this is a topic we'vebeen working through for the past few
months, and we've been talking aboutinternally, um, just kind of back and
(11:12):
forth and, and, and in our conversationskind of back and forth and, and really
it's an area that I think is, um, it'sperpetuated by modern culture and that
is just how do you stay focused whenseasons of life, uh, get you going busy,
(11:35):
you know, you've just got lots on yourplate and it's not always like that.
And it's not always like that for me.
It's, and, and, and I think maybeif it's, if, if you're the person
listening right now going, it's nevernot been busy, well maybe this one
will be helpful for you as well.
Um, so today's topicis, is staying focused.
(11:58):
Then there's just a difference betweenbeing busy and being productive.
So, um, to, to kind of really kick us offafter kind of broaching the subject there.
Uh, I just think that in modernculture, like I mentioned before, it
is almost look down upon if, especiallyin American culture, if you're, if
(12:21):
someone says, Hey, how's it going?
And if you don't say busy, youfeel guilty and you feel less than
and you feel like you're slackingoff, um, would you agree with that?
Uh, absolutely would.
Yeah.
So, um, and, and I just think that that's.
One, I get where it comes from and,and listen, we all kind of get ahead
(12:44):
in America and America's sort ofthat, you know, western frontier and
bootstrapping yourself and self-made man.
And everyone loves that story.
And, and, and I'm, and I believe inthat, uh, that no one's gonna come save
you and you've gotta put in the workto get the results you're looking for.
Uh, whether there's some overlaps there,whether that's fitness, education, career,
(13:07):
relationships, uh, jujitsu, whatever.
Um, you do have to put in the work.
However, um.
There is a difference betweenbeing busy and being productive.
And when we're talking about,let's just bring it down to
just business at a high level.
Um, if you're leading in any way,shape, or form, business doesn't
(13:30):
require, and they're damn sureyour leader is not looking for a
Superman, um, a Superman or a fireman.
And what I mean by that is, is like stopbeing the damn hero and trying to just
go put out all these fires that perhapsyou are setting, you know, by not being
thoughtful and intentional with how you,uh, set up your day, your week, your
(13:53):
month, or how you approach the problems.
You know, if you're just beingreactive and running around and
around and around putting outfires, you're probably gonna be.
Caught up doing that for a long timeuntil you figure out what the hell's
going on and what's causing the fires.
Keith (14:08):
I also think busy is a cop out.
Sid (14:10):
Yeah.
I don't disagree with that.
So when you talk to, yeah.
Double click on that for us a little
Keith (14:14):
bit.
When you, when you talk to someone that'sjust them getting by, if you want to,
if you wanna dig in to their busyness,ask em, well how have you been busy?
And make them explain it.
Because most of the time people can't
like, yeah.
When I ask you what youhad been, oh, just busy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just, I'm just busy.
Yeah.
And so when I ask you what youhad been doing a while ago, you,
(14:38):
you named off things like Yeah.
Getting the team together, doingthe state of the Union address.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, preparing for that,traveling, you know, so that, that is
productivity in the right direction.
But I think a lot of times weuse the term busy and we're not
going in the right direction.
(15:00):
Gotcha.
I've been there.
Yeah, me too.
I've been on the, the wheel, so to speak
Speaker 6 (15:06):
mm-hmm.
Keith (15:07):
And felt like I was like just working my tail off.
But yet when I look back, I was atthe same place that I started from.
Sid (15:15):
Yeah.
Just spinning my wheels.
Yeah.
Running in quicksand.
Yeah.
I, I don't disagree that beingbusy is a cop out for, um,
spinning your wheels and not reallyknowing what you're getting done.
Keith (15:26):
I also believe that those of us who lead organizations
put this unsaid expectation onour team members to be busy.
Yeah.
Instead of productive.
Sid (15:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You feel a little guilty if you'renot putting in work every minute of
every day, uh, feeling like you'rebeing a productive member of the team.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes.
Okay,
Keith (15:54):
so I can, I can relate to that.
What we need to do is defineproductivity versus busyness.
Sure.
And so, and how would you do that?
I would say productivity ismoving in the, in, in a forward
direction of the goals in which you
Sid (16:18):
are
Keith (16:18):
trying to attain.
Sid (16:19):
Okay.
So that, with that premise,step one is you'd have to know
what are the goals, right?
So we'll start with theend in mind with the goals.
Keith (16:30):
Yeah.
So whatever the goal is, I thinkyou have to really define your what,
say what does success look like?
What does success look like?
Yeah.
And maybe that's the job of the,the manager or owner to define
what does success look like.
Man, I
Sid (16:46):
don't disagree with you, but I don't think everyone has, uh, a leader
that is as thoughtful as that tosay, Hey, just to help you understand
this is what success looks like.
That's, that's a pretty high level leaderwith I. With some intentionality there.
And I've been in this
Keith (17:03):
world lately and I was, I realized that I didn't have that.
Yeah.
When I brought new team team members on.
What does success look like to you?
Yeah.
I think a lot of times we askpeople to help, Hey, just come help.
We wanna hire you just to come help us.
And then we never tell themthe goal they're going after.
Sid (17:28):
Yeah.
I can, I can go, I can go a lot of,I can go a lot of ways on this one.
Um hmm.
So, number one, you've heardme talk about talent maps.
Keith (17:37):
Yep.
Sid (17:38):
Uh, and, and I'll start like real high level, um.
And, and man, we're just kindof jumping in here, guys.
Um, if you are the leader and you're,and you're catching yourself in the
scenario where you're hiring someoneand you feel like perhaps you're not
giving them good direction or goodleadership about what success looks
(17:59):
like, like I want you to come on board.
Um, number one, you need to makesure my job, you need to make sure
this, you need to make sure of this.
And this is the conversationI have with myself.
And, and really this is the conversationI have with, with any of those reports
is, Hey, look, I really appreciate youbeing here, but I want to make sure
(18:20):
that we're on the same page that my jobis to in, in the company, is to make
sure that I get a good return on thedollars invested in your employment.
I think that there's a misunderstandingwith employment and, and I don't,
and I don't mean to sound like somesort of harsh capitalist, uh, but
it is like you're not here making.
(18:41):
$20 an hour or 70,000 a year withbenefits or a hundred thousand a
year in benefits because I likeyou and I want you to be around me.
Let's just clear that up.
Your job is to do this at this levelto produce this outcome, and if that is
(19:01):
produced, then these, then this payment isa good return on the investment of those
dollars being spent on your employment.
Now, if they aren't, then oneof two things is happening here.
It's either I.
You're not committed to the execution ofthat, or I haven't given you the tools
or the direction to help you get there.
(19:22):
And we've gotta figure that outin a relatively quick manner.
And so we're going tomeet every other week.
And then here's your scorecard.
So I know that you know how you're doing,you know how you're doing, and you know,
we can work together to help you achievethose goals on a consistent basis.
So consistently you cancontinue to get paid.
(19:43):
That sounds harsh, but that iswhat every business is doing.
No one is hired because.
Someone wants them to just be around.
Uh, okay.
Not many, hardly anyare, are getting paid.
Now, you might, if you're a Kennedy,you might be on someone's board
(20:04):
getting paid because of the influence.
You might be, I'm sorry, uh,uh, a Biden, sorry, just joking.
I'm trying to wind Keith up, buthe is not taking any of the bait.
Uh, but you know, you get,you get what I'm saying?
I think that, that, that stuff is there.
Uh,
so there's that from the leader, butthe other side is, let's say you don't
(20:26):
have anyone that, that, that is, um,that forward, that direct, and that
clear with their expectations, well thenit's your job to ask those questions.
And or if you can't get the answers tothose, then to really self define what
leader, what, um, what success looks like.
Keith (20:45):
So what you're basically saying is that you should have
KPIs for every position that you.
Have.
Sid (20:52):
Yeah.
And, and, and there shouldn't.
Yeah.
You should.
You as a leader should have KPIsfor every position that you have,
uh, in your organization andsomeone needs to be watching them.
And then the people that are,uh, producing those KPIs, they
need to be responsible for it.
They need to know what they are.
And, and, and you really should becoaching these people to help them
(21:14):
be successful and hit those KPIs.
Keith (21:18):
But that's where most people go wrong, is they don't have KPIs for
Sid (21:22):
That's what I was gonna say.
The, that's where, that'swhere it gets fuzzy.
Keith (21:27):
That's where I went wrong.
Quite frankly.
That's why I've taken the last threeweeks to write KPIs for every position.
I'm pretty blessed in the factthat I'm building a team, so I
don't already have one there.
Yeah.
And so, but I was like, if I starthiring people with no KPIs, I'm not
(21:47):
gonna even know who I need to hire.
Mm-hmm.
To.
I don't, I'm not going to be ableto give clear direction on what I
need from the people that I hire.
Yeah.
Uh, and I believe we get in,especially in a growth period.
(22:07):
Yeah.
We just, we just hire the willing.
Sid (22:13):
We do, we do.
And we're just adding numbers to theteam thinking that that's gonna help.
It's sort of like the, the parallelis sort of like, I'm on, I'm on
a, uh, I'm running a company thatdoesn't have any systems or really
any foundational, uh, processes.
Uh, and we're not making money.
But my answer to that is just more sales.
(22:36):
It's not gonna solve the problem.
Adding more people, team membersto the team doesn't help you be
more successful or more productive.
It just adds more overhead.
Everyone's flailing.
Keith (22:50):
No.
It's just the myth that we'reexperiencing pressure so that
we need to add people to fix it.
Sid (22:57):
Yeah.
I can't do it all.
I need more.
I need more help.
Keith (23:00):
Yeah.
Sid (23:00):
Cool.
What does that look like?
I don't know, but I need more help.
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Keith (23:03):
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Sid (23:32):
I wanna take a moment to talk about someone who's been instrumental
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That's Johnny Barranco andhis team at Barranco and
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So I'd like to, I'd like to shift this,um, w there's two, there's two areas
I'd like to make sure that we touchon, and one of 'em, the next one, and
(24:36):
I think it sort of ties right into it.
You mentioned you're building a team,um, and you mentioned that you're,
you know, you're looking at addingthese people and you said something,
and I know I was, I was pretty, I waspretty shocked that you said something
poignant in, in this, in this arena.
Uh, and it was, um, you brought up thePareto principle was, was necessary.
(25:00):
While you're building your team, whydon't you go ahead and double click into
that and, and, and flesh that out forthe audience of why 80 20 is is important
when you're thinking about your team andhow you're building your team around you.
Keith (25:16):
I love u PC users that are still double clicking.
Sid (25:18):
Yeah.
Keith (25:19):
But um, I
Sid (25:20):
think you still double click.
Like I'm double clicking right now onmy iPad and it, and it goes in tighter.
Keith (25:25):
Oh, okay.
Sid (25:26):
Yeah,
Keith (25:27):
yeah.
I just click once, you know.
Well, um, but so
we talk about this principle all the time.
80 20. Yeah.
Sid (25:38):
80 20.
It's everywhere
Keith (25:39):
In business.
In business we talk aboutin life we talk about it.
Yeah.
Oh, 20% of your actions gonna get it.
Sid (25:45):
80%
Keith (25:46):
of the results.
80% of the results.
Sid (25:47):
Yeah.
20% of your customers produce 80% ofyour profit or revenue or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
But 80% of your marketing's, Imean, 20% of your marketing's gonna
produce 80% of your leads, whatever.
And then,
Keith (26:00):
yeah.
And then so, but how long have I justwandered around skipping, not even
looking at the 20% in which I'm good at.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
How many times have I just, I justhad this talk with my wife actually.
Um, it didn't go very well.
(26:21):
Oh, yeah, I was about to say, I'msure that, I'm sure that was a winner.
Trying to, uh, she thinks she's avideographer and she's Oh, good.
And she's not.
Sid (26:30):
Oh, is she not?
Okay.
No.
Yeah, I bet that conversation went great.
Keith (26:34):
It did
Sid (26:34):
not, it did not go through.
You think you're something you're not.
Got it.
Keith (26:37):
Yeah.
She's taking a video rightnow as we do this podcast.
Oh, good.
Yeah, Tim, she's taking a videoright now as we do this podcast, but
Tim is seeing her video work, but, um,
(26:59):
yeah.
Oh yeah.
That's a good one.
Yes.
You're gonna have to fix, fix that one.
Oh, look at that.
But, but, but
Sid (27:06):
Well, at least he's covering it up.
Yeah,
Keith (27:08):
he's, yeah.
You cover that thing up.
Sid (27:11):
Yeah.
Keith (27:12):
But.
Up until we really started doing thispodcast, I, I've actually learned a
ton of business knowledge by doing thispodcast because I've had to study Uhhuh.
Um, believe it or not, our failuresmost of the time stick out on this
podcast more than our successes.
Sure, sure.
(27:32):
And so, um, I just realized I've walkedaround in life most of my life, just not
even paying attention, having heard thatprinciple, all of my business career.
Speaker 6 (27:43):
Mm-hmm.
Keith (27:45):
And
what I've began doing recently in thelast couple years is looking, okay, what
do I need to build around my strength?
Mm-hmm.
And I don't think a lot of founders
Sid (28:04):
do that.
Okay.
So how do you do that?
One?
One, the audience is dying toknow what's your, what's your 20%?
Keith (28:11):
What's my 20%?
What's your
Sid (28:13):
20%?
Networking.
Okay.
Keith (28:15):
And Rick Miller helped me with this more than anyone.
Okay.
Um, partnerships.
Okay.
Working partnerships out isexactly what I do at Hatch.
Okay.
Um, and then inspiring.
Okay.
And so all the,
Sid (28:36):
all the soft
Keith (28:37):
skills.
All the soft skills sales.
Okay.
You know, I can sell a little bit.
Sid (28:40):
Okay.
Sales.
Keith (28:41):
Yeah.
So, so I need to be outthere selling the work.
Now that looks different.
A lot of times it may be that I needto equip the people that are, that
are going to sell, sell the work.
Okay.
And I'm pretty good at that.
Sid (28:58):
But in But in your role right now, I would imagine, yeah.
You're out there.
Yeah.
Strategic part out there,selling strategic partnership,
selling why you're even with the
Keith (29:05):
publishing companies.
Okay.
I don't need to do anythingother than recruiting authors.
Okay.
Getting them in thedeal flow, so to speak.
And then I need to hire peopleto do the execution of the work.
Gotcha.
I'm not wonderful.
I can do it because I've been doingit so long at the organizational
(29:28):
skills that it takes to get a productfrom point A to point B. Gotcha.
I'm really great at defining whatthe product is and then going
out and taking it to the market.
Sid (29:42):
And then so what you're saying is, is being honest with yourself and not.
And having the humility to say, theseare the things that I'm good at and these
are the things that I'm not so good at.
This is my 20%, and then this other80% of all of the stuff that takes a
product from A to Z. Uh, the 80% of that.
(30:03):
I need to get folks to do that.
And so that gives you a roadmap toset the KPIs and get you an idea
of who needs to do what or howmany people or whatever, right?
Yeah.
I have the, that's, that's the area that Iwanted to make sure we double clicked on.
'cause people are like, oh, okay, cool.
I hear y'all saying stay focused andthere's a difference between being
(30:25):
busy and being productive, but,you know, I gotta do everything.
And what I wanted to really, likeI said, double click on was that.
You need to first figure out what itis you're good at and what it is that
you can and should be doing for theorganization, for your family, for the
community, whatever, you know, whatare the things that you should be doing
(30:46):
and what are the things that still needto be done that you're not great at.
That if you do bring in people, ifyou're not a solopreneur, uh, or even
if you are and you're gonna, you'regonna, you know, maybe outsource with
some, uh, what do you call those?
Freelance people or, or whatever.
Yeah.
Contractors.
Contractors.
Thank you.
Um, if you're gonna do that, thenyou, you, it does give you a, at
(31:09):
least an understanding of whatyou're going to need, uh, instead
of just taking on whoever, you know?
Yeah.
Keith (31:15):
I don't need to hire someone for marketing vision.
Yeah.
I don't need to hire someone that createsproducts that we do in publishing.
Yeah.
I know that world.
Yeah.
That's the world that I know.
Getting the production tohappen is where I'm weak.
Yeah.
Staying on the people that arewriting the book, that are formulating
(31:41):
the book, that know how to spell.
Sid (31:44):
No, I'm out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm out.
I'm out inside.
Joking.
Our family in my, I'm terrible spelling
Keith (31:52):
my, in my organization, preparing the finances
Sid (31:57):
not great at Gotcha.
So you need, I mean, even when Ihelp, you need help with operations.
Yeah.
You need help with finance.
Yeah.
And you need help with management.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
Like when I sit down with Natasha, Ilook at her and I say, Natasha from
Barranco and Associates are, arecorrect, are accounting, uh, sponsor.
Keith (32:18):
I'm like, Natasha, can you, I need you to speak to me
like I'm a kindergartner here.
And she does that really well.
Yeah, she does.
She does.
She says, she doesn't say it like this,but it comes across a little bit like
this now that we've been working together.
Uhhuh.
Okay, dummy.
(32:39):
Oh, okay.
This is what we do.
And she says it like, I'ma kindergartner, you know?
Gotcha.
And, and she does That exexplains it super well.
Sid (32:47):
Well, so that's the area that I really wanted to make sure that we kind
of honed in on because what is you 20?
What me?
Yeah.
Um, man, I'm good.
I I'm good with like, long-term vision.
Mm-hmm.
I can kind of see where an organiza,where the, where the possibilities are.
Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm good with,I'm good with big picture.
(33:08):
So e even operationally I can see.
Operationally, I can see the,the wares, uh, um, wares.
I can see where you can save some time,where you can save, uh, effort, where
you can, uh, improve some efficiencies.
Um, uh, marketing pretty good with thatcontent, uh, in, um, content creation.
(33:30):
And how do we get that to thecustomer in a, in a, in a manner
that it connects with them.
Good with sales.
Uh, what I'm not great with are details.
I'm good with finances, eespecially at a high level.
Uh, but I just, I get bored.
And so if it comes to day-to-day, weekto week management of something other
(33:51):
than some things that I'm interested in,uh, I, I don't do real well with that.
'cause I'll find something, I'llfind some shiny object in the next
month and, and go chase that down.
So, to backfill me, I need like super, I.Organized, disciplined folks that do it.
And that's where Justincomes in and he's fantastic.
Him and I are on the same page.
(34:12):
He just likes grinding it out, you know?
Uh, and I like keeping moving forward,uh, and kind of developing this idea
out and then fleshing it out with him.
And then he takes it andkind of runs with it.
And then Jamie is superdisciplined and organized.
Um, however, she just runs the finances to
Keith (34:36):
know that about yourself.
It
Sid (34:38):
took a long time.
It
Keith (34:40):
took a long time.
Did you ever try to delve in places?
Oh, yeah.
All that.
However.
I would say that that is necessary.
Sid (34:48):
I think so too.
I was gonna say that actually I hadto do all of those jobs and get mad
at myself and think that I was like,something was wrong with me and how,
how could I be so unorganized anddisciplined and all undisciplined?
Because, I mean, for the most partof my life, I'm pretty disciplined.
(35:09):
But when it comes to like.
For the next three years workingon this problem day in and day out.
Because if you got a, if you got anorganization at a certain size, it's
gonna take a longer time to sortof turn that ship in a direction.
Uh, and so if we've got a new initiative,I don't know what that might be, but
like, let's say you're gonna add a a,a new service, a a department, it's
(35:34):
gonna take three years, lots of timesin our world to get that, to really
get legs where it's on its own and itcan afford to have someone really run
it with their own KPIs and, and, and,and, and get them plugged into it.
And so, uh, we've had departments orinitiatives that didn't really do well
for like five years because it was kindof my baby and I would get it going and
(35:59):
then I would lose sight of it, you know?
And no one really owned it.
Um, but I had to, I had to go throughthat, like you said, to, to sort of
recognize that and go, oh, that's just me.
I will say EOS.
And its language where like, oh, there'svisionaries, there's integrators,
there's operators, there's all thisother stuff that I can go, oh my God,
okay, I could put a name to what I am andgo, all right, it's not the end of the
(36:25):
world if that's who I am or what I am.
I will say this for all you integratorsout there that like to Jan on visionaries.
Um, here's my personal rant.
Uh, you're welcome.
You're welcome.
'cause you wouldn't havea job if it wasn't for us.
Absolutely.
So you can take that and do whatever youwant with it, but, uh, you're welcome.
'cause those of us that take risks andput our names on the notes, uh, you know,
(36:48):
those are the loans that they get to comeand get our homes if we don't pay 'em.
Uh, you're welcome.
Keith (36:53):
Now, by the way, we put our name on notes we probably shouldn't
have had just because of our video.
Yeah, probably.
Sid (36:58):
Probably.
But, you know, then my personal rantis that I'm just kind of tired of
integrators sort of taking, takinga jab at, uh, visionaries because
they show up late and they, uh, theygot lots of ideas and I'm just Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how the world goes around.
Uh, sorry.
I mean, my brain's kind of thinkingabout eight ideas last night and, uh,
sort of honing those out this morning.
(37:20):
And I, I also think, andkind of getting, getting
Keith (37:21):
them, getting them on paper.
I also think we visionaries.
Are a little moreself-aware than most though.
Sid (37:30):
Ooh.
Keith (37:30):
Some
Sid (37:30):
are.
Some aren't, you
Keith (37:31):
think?
Sid (37:32):
Yeah.
Well, but I think, I thinklife and business beats, uh,
visionaries if you're in the gamelong enough into self-awareness.
Keith (37:40):
Yeah, I do too.
Because you just have to, I alsobelieve we are lacking individuals in
society probably with self-awareness.
With
Sid (37:50):
self-awareness.
Oh my God.
We were talking about that withcollege students just, uh, just
before we started this podcast.
And there's some real Unselfaware folks.
Hmm.
Look, just because you, it's
Keith (38:02):
rapid.
Sid (38:03):
Yeah.
Just because you stayed in, in collegethat your mommy and daddy paid for and,
and it was a great time and you showedup for class enough to get some Cs.
Uh, doesn't mean you know anything.
No.
Keith (38:15):
I'm gonna be with some real un not self-aware people
tonight at the Wilco show.
Yeah, I'll be there too.
Sid (38:22):
I'm
Keith (38:22):
I,
Sid (38:22):
yeah.
Yeah.
Hey, uh, just a plug for the, uh,coastal Alabama Community College system.
Uh, they do a fantastic job withtheir, uh, spring and fall concert
series in downtown Fairhope.
Man, they do.
It's a great job.
It is
Keith (38:40):
fantastic.
If you wanna come to Fairhope,dude, come during Live at five.
Sid (38:44):
Live at
Keith (38:45):
five Fridays In the spring.
In the fall.
In the fall, yeah.
Yep.
Sid (38:50):
It's fantastic.
Yeah, it was, uh, it's a good stuff.
We went to Old Crow Medicine Show,what, two or three weeks ago?
Yeah, two weeks ago.
It was good, dude.
It was fantastic.
And then Wilco's playing
Keith (39:00):
the night.
Wilco's
Sid (39:01):
playing tonight.
That's crazy.
That would be great.
Keith (39:02):
I'm, I'm buying a T-shirt.
Are you?
Yeah.
I'm gonna get a Wilco shirt.
I
Sid (39:06):
always say that.
And I always buy a t-shirtand I never wear 'em.
Keith (39:09):
I'm gonna do it.
I want a Black Rock t-shirt.
Do you?
Yeah.
Sid (39:14):
Huh.
All
Keith (39:16):
I've got are juujitsu T-shirts.
I know, me too.
But mine's stinking right now'cause I've not competed in a while.
Yeah.
And you know how they just,they just start stinking, they
Sid (39:23):
just start stinking, but okay, back to it.
Sorry.
Speaking of visionariesand getting off track.
Yeah.
And squirreling.
Uh, yeah.
So
Keith (39:34):
I think we've gotta talk about, you know, we've talked about being self-aware.
Yeah.
And in that part of self-awareness,the ability to say no to certain
things is pretty critical.
Sid (39:50):
Okay.
Flesh that out for me.
Keith (39:52):
The power of saying no as you develop in your, this is your
thing, this is your thing here
Sid (39:57):
lately.
Keith (39:58):
Yeah.
The power of saying no is you develop asa entrepreneur and a, and a founder and
a business operator is the most criticalthing I. You can have as you scale.
Sid (40:14):
Okay.
I can agree with you as you scalewhen you're getting started.
No.
Is not real.
No.
You need to say Yeah.
You're saying yes all the time.
And we talked
Keith (40:22):
about, yeah.
You should say yes all the time.
Sid (40:24):
Yeah.
Keith (40:24):
But that because
Sid (40:24):
you're getting reps well and, but eventually you figure out what you're
good at and what you're not good at.
But that then you gotta say no.
Keith (40:30):
Right.
That also helps you define your twenties.
I was gonna say.
Yeah.
Like when I first started my business,I took every media job I could get.
Yeah,
Sid (40:38):
sure.
We'll do that video commercial.
We've got a videographer right over here.
Keith (40:42):
Yeah.
It's my wife and I and Iwas lying the whole time.
Oh man.
You know, most of the time.
Sid (40:47):
Yeah.
I
Keith (40:47):
mean.
Think about when you started sexting.
You too.
We did.
Sid (40:50):
We did all kinds of things that you took
Keith (40:52):
landscape jobs, you probably shouldn't, we shouldn't
Sid (40:54):
have.
We did ponds that we shouldn't havedone with water features that like
I was trying to learn on the job.
Yep.
Um, yeah.
And they might have been a littletoo big to start with and you
have to, but you have to do that.
Yeah.
You do.
To
Keith (41:08):
know what you're good at.
Yeah.
And you have to do that toknow what you're capable of.
Yeah.
The things that I pushed myselfto do that I found out I was good
at is the things that drove myop, my business into success.
Sid (41:25):
Yeah.
Keith (41:26):
And had I not done those things,
I would've never had the biggestprofit centers in my company.
Sid (41:36):
Yeah.
The overlap there that came tomind is like a jiujitsu tournament.
Right.
Like when's it time to do aJiujitsu tournament right now?
Yeah, because you really get tosee when someone else is fired
up about breaking your arm.
Like just
Keith (41:51):
yeah.
How good you are, how good
Sid (41:52):
are you?
Yeah.
You know, and uh, I and lots of times,lots of times, you know, and it's okay.
You either win or you learn.
Keith (41:59):
I don't know that I should have been doing a Jiujitsu tournament.
You should three weeks.
You should know Three weeks.
I was gonna say, I was
Sid (42:05):
gonna say that, that was, that.
That's probably not good.
Keith (42:08):
I mean, I, but I will say I didn't know I was doing a Jiujitsu tournament.
Sid (42:14):
Oh, well, fun.
That's fun.
Keith (42:16):
Like Scott had a key in the back of the car, uhhuh and a belt in the back
of the car, and we showed up to the tableand I'm standing by him and he goes.
Keith Klein.
Yeah.
And uh, he said, I signed you up.
Oh,
Sid (42:31):
well that's fun.
Keith (42:32):
He said, you're competing.
That's fun.
I didn't get tapped.
Sid (42:38):
I got beat bad.
I tried this one new businessthing and I didn't go bankrupt.
That's good.
Been there.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Me too.
Um, but I'm with you.
I'm with you.
That, that early on you gotta say yes.
Uh, because one, it gives you some repsand, and rep repetitions just allow
you to, to get more experience quicker.
(43:00):
Uh, and then eventually withthose repetitions, you start to
figure out like, what are you,what are you naturally good at?
What do you like?
And then what do you naturallyhate and what are you not good at?
And then you can start developingthe idea of what your 80 20 is.
At least at that moment in your life.
And then maybe you could startasking for some help once you've
(43:23):
got some self-awareness, likeyou said about doing that.
And you can, uh, and then you can startsaying no with some confidence that
it's okay to say no about this stuff.
Keith (43:34):
Well, and
it gives you, saying yes, gives youthe confidence to begin to say no.
Yes.
When I say no is the, my favorite wordnow, that's 20 years in the business.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I probably didn't startsaying no soon enough.
Sid (43:56):
Oh, well isn't that like everyone, doesn't, everyone, you, you know, you,
you gotta not say no soon enough to havethe mistakes and the, and the scars to go.
I'm definitely gonna sayno now about these things.
You know?
I think that's everyone.
I think that's justpart of, I think that's,
that's just man.
(44:17):
Some prices are higher and somepeople, you know, learn to say
no way later in, in, in life.
Or maybe they never do.
But the ones that do, uh, theyprobably all say you wanna
talk, said should sooner.
Keith (44:29):
Let me tell you where I should've said no.
And this is an overlapsituation in the family.
Sid (44:34):
Okay.
Keith (44:34):
When my wife came and said, I want a Jeep Wrangler.
Oh yeah.
And I knew she ain't gonna like a Jeep.
She likes heated seats.
Well, they do make those.
Well, and this Jeep had heated seats.
Oh, okay.
And she likes a smooth fried Oh, well they
Sid (44:50):
don't have that.
They do not.
Okay.
Yeah.
I think that's more of aconversation and let's, okay.
You say you want that?
Let's, uh, let's try one out.
Let's rent one for a week.
Keith (45:04):
Oh, but she would've liked it for a week.
She, you think so?
Because it was new and cool, butI knew she wasn't gonna like it.
I mean, three weeks in, she was like,we gotta get rid of this piece of junk.
Huh?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now she's got a plush
Sid (45:15):
little.
Did did you finally buy a car?
Keith (45:18):
We bought a car.
Sid (45:19):
Oh my God.
Oh, I'm texting the group.
So another inside joke for howmany weeks now have I been,
Keith (45:26):
have we been reading a car?
I,
Sid (45:27):
I have been, I have been hounding Keith in a group text message with, uh,
his wife, me, and, and, and, and someothers of like, Keith, where are you at?
Are you buying Stephanie a car?
It was Stephanie's birthday.
And I was like, ah, you guys aren't here.
You must be out buying a carand like every other day.
Keith (45:46):
Yeah, we bought a car.
It's good times.
Uh, we were in a car, but it, the rentingfor a couple weeks was good because
it let her drive several differentcars, Uhhuh it, let her kind of see
what she liked, what she didn't uhhuh.
It was good.
Well, good.
If you're looking at buying a car,I would suggest go rent and we
change cars every week, so she drovelike three different types of cars.
Sid (46:09):
Well, that's a different way of doing it.
Keith (46:11):
Hey guys.
I wanna tell you about my friend Wes Cody.
He's the president of C two WealthStrategies, a financial advisory firm
dedicated to providing personalizedsolutions for your financial needs.
Wes and his team of professionalsare passionate about helping clients
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They believe in taking a holistic approachto financial planning and are committed
(46:34):
to building long lasting relationshipswith their clients, ensuring their
financial wellbeing every step of the way.
Don't leave your financialfuture to chance.
Contact Wes and C2 Wealthtoday@c2wealth.com to
schedule a consultation.
Let Wes and his team help youbuild your financial future.
Sid (46:55):
If you're a small business owner looking to take your business
to the next level, listen up.
My good friend Chris Francis hasspent over 20 years growing his tree
care business to national success.
Now he's partnered with Rick Miller.
You've probably heard himhere on the podcast before.
Harvard, MBA and business consultantto create Roadmap for Growth, an
online course to help you scale buildteams and create systems that last,
(47:19):
it's not just for the tree industry.
This course applies to anysmall service business.
Check out tree business.comor hit the link on the overlap
homepage to learn more.
Before we run out of time, I didwant to, I wanted to shift gears to
the second part, which was the firstone was, Hey, if you're a leader,
(47:41):
you kind of gotta know where, where,where, um, where your 80 20 is.
And then you've got to kind of def, notkind of, you do need to define the role if
you're gonna ask for help, whether that'sa contractor or whether that's someone
on your team and it's your job to helpthem, or it's your job to give them KPIs,
key performance indicators, uh, developa scorecard for them and, and then coach
(48:06):
them to be successful in that arena.
Make a little bit of time to, to check inon that and coach them to be successful
in the role and, and give them thetools to know what success looks like.
The second thing I wanted to talk aboutis say you're not the leader and you're
not in control over that and you, youare working somewhere, and I think this
is pretty pervasive, that no one hasgiven you KPIs and no one has really
(48:31):
clearly defined what success looks like.
I think it's up to you if you don'thave access to that, to just do your
best job to figure out what that is.
Because if you aim at nothing,you'll hit it every time.
I use that one a lot because Ithink that that really does sort of.
(48:52):
Encompass what?
Being productive, but not, I mean,being busy but not being productive.
It, it entails is that I'm just super busydoing things, but I accomplish nothing.
I never make progress, like youwere saying, towards that end goal.
All I'm really doing is just answeringthe next email, returning the, the last
(49:14):
phone call, going to see the customer thatsquawks the loudest or whatever it is.
And I'm never making pro meaningfulprogress towards an end goal.
And, uh, I think like the, theleader that took the time to think
about what does success look like?
I think it's your job that you, the, uh,the person and whether this is at home
(49:40):
too, but figure out what does successlook like and what, what, what are the,
what are the daily, weekly, monthlydrivers that will get me to success?
Is that.
Hitting with you there, Keith Kleins.
Keith (49:53):
It is.
And what I would say, if you workfor an organization that you do
not feel supported and you don'tknow what success looks like,
ask the boss.
Yeah.
Go.
And that would be, I would love ifpeople would come to me and say, Hey,
(50:14):
I know I'm telling you I'm busy allday long, but I really don't even
know what in the heck I'm doing.
Sid (50:19):
Yeah.
I'm concerned because I feellike I'm spinning my wheels.
Yeah.
So if you, that'd be good.
Keith (50:24):
If you feel like, and, and I would venture to say this, if you work
for an organization and you feel likeyou're spinning your wheels, you don't
have clearly defined KPIs to follow.
And that's probably the personwho owns the business fault.
Yeah.
And that's fine.
You don't have to tell 'emthat, but you could say, Hey,
what does success look like?
What do you think successlooks like for me?
(50:46):
In my role?
Yeah.
Yeah.
In my role I was talking to.
A, um, business operator yesterday, theyhad an individual quit their business
Sid (50:56):
mm-hmm.
Keith (50:57):
Because of that reason,
Sid (50:59):
because they didn't know, she didn't
Keith (51:00):
know what success looked like.
And it was, she got, she got frustrated.
Sid (51:06):
Hmm.
Yeah.
People don't leave jobs,they leave leaders.
Correct.
And, and maybe people just don'tstop and ask the question like
that, like you said, and, and theywere, they just get frustrated
Keith (51:19):
were, they were able to salvage her quitting by calling
her and saying, what is the deal?
And that's exactly what she told them.
Hmm.
Was, I have no idea what I'm doing.
Gotcha.
I have no idea what you want from me.
Sid (51:33):
And I don't know if I'm winning or losing,
Keith (51:34):
and I don't know if I'm, people hate to not be in the middle.
Sid (51:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
People like, no, listen.
Okay.
And this was the analogyand now we're getting to it.
So.
Imagine you're playing a game.
What game?
Basketball.
Mm-hmm.
Something.
Let's say.
Let's say basketball, well's soccer,football, football, whatever.
You're playing a game, butwe're not keeping score.
How interested in the game are you?
(51:59):
Are you ha are you, are you makingthat, that block every play that
like, you mean it every time orare you driving to the basket?
Are you getting back ondefense if you lose the ball?
You know, are you doing any of that?
If we're not keeping score, thereused to be this BAS basketball league
caught upward when my kid Oh yeah.
I know about Upward.
(52:19):
Ezra.
Ezra played one year.
Yeah.
Of
Keith (52:21):
that.
I coached an upward.
Oh, did you?
I did.
Okay.
But every time they would come tothe bitch, I would, I would let them
know if they were winning or losing.
Sid (52:30):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Told And you said bench?
I not bitch.
Yeah.
Binge.
Okay.
Bench.
Okay, got it.
Yeah.
All right.
Uh, so you would tell themif they're winning or losing?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
That's an interesting take.
Yeah.
Keith (52:43):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I was like, we'regonna pray after, but we,
but we all should also should
Sid (52:50):
keep score.
Hey, CYO soccer, we were prayingbefore and after and it, uh,
we're definitely keeping score.
Yeah.
Evan Sexton is keeping score son.
Yeah.
He is not, he ain't, he ain't having it.
Keith (53:03):
Yeah.
Oh, I would bring my kids tothe sideline and I would say.
Do not listen to anything.
That guy in the middle of thecourt just said, oh my God, it
does matter if you win or lose.
Oh my God.
Because, you know, they started everyawkward with it doesn't matter if you
win or lose, it's how you play the game.
I'm like, absolutely not.
Sid (53:21):
Well, okay, I'll give you a little Okay.
I'll give you a little bitof coaching, uh, inside.
Uh, so I've been in soccerfor, oh my God, how old am I?
So 40 years.
Yeah, 40.
That sounds crazy.
Um, and at a super highlevel for like 10 years.
Right.
And in the, and then, andthen I was a president of a
(53:41):
cl of, you know, soccer club.
And I'll say from that age grade, agerange, when kids start getting into soccer
from six till about 12, um, is wherewe had the most problem with parents.
Because we would be trying to implementkids to play soccer the right way,
(54:01):
which would be building out from theback, uh, playing with less touches,
like two, three touches, and then finda pass or, you know, stuff like that.
And, um, there would be other kidsthat might be larger and more athletic
and more fast and all that stuff.
Right.
And especially about 10, 11 when they'retrying to figure out the skill aspect.
(54:24):
And, and, and, and like positioning.
We would get smoked, not smoked, wewould get beat, uh, and we would get
beat by some teens that weren't as good.
And you just have to constantly keepreminding 'em like it's gonna work out.
I know we got beat.
Oh, I know we didn't go win theDaphne Surf Cup or whatever, you
(54:44):
know, with eight other teams there.
It's going to be okay.
And parents would get wound up about it.
And I, and look, I don't, I hatelosing too, but I, like, I knew
that this was the way to go.
And by the time you, they got tobe about 14, they didn't lose those
teams that didn't like take the time.
Okay.
(55:04):
Take, take the, uh, take the athleticjuujitsu guy that never, that never
takes the time to learn technique.
Eventually they justget smoked by the guy.
That, that just focuses on technique.
It just takes a longer period of time.
Sorry, there's my little rant on.
It does matter.
I mean, it doesn't matter at acertain point, at a certain level,
it doesn't matter if you win orlose as long as you're developing.
Speaker 6 (55:26):
Mm-hmm.
Sid (55:27):
No one asked for that.
Sorry.
That's a good one though.
It's a good, yeah.
Uh, man.
And that's, that's my soccer deal isthat, man, it's so non-intuitive to play
with a ball at your feet instead of withyour hands that, uh, it takes a little
bit of extra time to get that going.
'cause it's not like a normal thing.
Unless you grow up in a soccer householdor unless you grow up in England or
(55:48):
Brazil or something like that, andthey're just playing all the time.
Keith (55:51):
So the next time you say back, yeah, back to it.
So the next time you say theword busy, I want your, I want
you to think about this episode.
Sid (55:58):
Yeah, I do too.
Another aspect.
You, you really drove and I wantedto make sure I made this point, but
you drove, you drove home to go ask.
I think that's, I think that's brilliant.
I think that's exactly what peopleshould do because they think that the,
that the leader should know and shouldjust be, read your mind and tell you.
(56:18):
That person just went ahead and quit.
And I would say, man, give them anopportunity and have some grace that
they got to that, that you know, theperson ahead of you may have a lot of
pressure on them and they just haven'tgiven that all that much thought.
And maybe you both learn something.
I promise, most of the time, I'd say95% of the time you're gonna build
some good relationships there andyou probably elevate your status
(56:42):
within the organization by askingfor some direction in that manner.
I think that's good.
Keith (56:49):
You know, another thing that I've noticed or that I've
realized as I've, I've gotten
better at business is a lot oftimes what my team members think is
success and what I have in my mindfor them as success is Oh yeah.
Two different things.
Sid (57:09):
Oh yeah, that's true.
Keith (57:11):
And so clear communication there.
Just like in your marriage
is critical.
Sid (57:20):
Yeah.
That's where I think theone-on-ones are important.
That's why I think a weeklyscorecard is, is, is super important.
And then a quarterly conversation,there's no, there's nothing falling
to the cracks with that process.
Keith (57:33):
I think you could implement that in all relationships would probably be
Sid (57:36):
good.
You probably could.
You're gonna have to hide it.
'cause if it was formattedand all that stuff.
Yeah.
My wife ain't getting, my wife would.
Yeah.
So y you know, I think, you know,regular date nights help with that.
Sure.
And that's like
Keith (57:51):
a, that's like a, a kinda one on one.
I
Sid (57:54):
I think it's, I think it's a one-on-one.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, my wife doesn't listen to this,so, so she won't know that that's
what I'm kind of treating it at as.
Mm-hmm.
Is that almost.
It's like a one-on-one, but I justdon't really care what we talk about.
I'm just letting her talk.
Mm-hmm.
And quality time is her love language.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm just making sure shegets what she needs, you know?
(58:16):
But then if I'm, if I'm good about itand, and for the most part I am is I,
if I can actively listen, you know,we talk about active listening enough
where, um, I can kind of get workin some of those things that, that
maybe we do need to discuss, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, without her feeling like it's somesort of business quarterly conversation.
(58:41):
Yeah.
You know?
Uh, and, and I'm not always good at that,but I'm, I'm, I'm pretty cognizant of it.
Regular date nights.
Uh, and if that's once a month, and man,lots of times it's just walking, you
know, we had a date night last night.
Keith (58:56):
Oh good.
Yeah.
But at our house, it was so nice.
We got two steaks.
Nobody was there.
No
Sid (59:01):
kids at home.
Keith (59:02):
Nice.
Turn the music on outside.
That's nice.
I grilled.
We just sat out there and talked.
It was super nice.
That's good.
And I did work in some stuff, like, just,
Sid (59:12):
just, yeah.
Without, without it being pressured.
Like a, like a, like a businessinterview or something.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, the other thing that I was gonnasay, uh, one was asked, but two,
what's your calendar look like?
What's your calendar look like?
I have found and hear me out people,the number one reason my leaders
(59:37):
that elevate from one position to thenext is their inability or lack of
discipline in controlling their calendar.
And what I say by controllingtheir calendar is this on a
weekly basis or daily basis.
Figuring out what are the 3, 4, 5 thingsthat need to get done this week for sure.
(01:00:00):
Or what are the one or two thingsthat need to get done today For sure.
And make damn surethey're on your calendar.
'cause for the most part, what getsscheduled on the calendar gets done.
And you could say, well, I put thingson the calendar and I don't get
those things done 'cause I get busy.
I don't know that, that, that's fine.
(01:00:21):
You just need to keep working at it.
Why is it, are you putting themin too late in the afternoon?
Do they need to go first thing inthe morning so you can eat that
frog first before the day gets busy?
Or is it because you put 'em atlunchtime and you, you know, you get
too, too hungry to, I mean, there'slots of things, but controlling the
calendar is one of the things that Ifound is that is the big differentiator
(01:00:45):
between someone that ends up becomingsuccessful and someone that just.
Frankly, they think that, uh, theexpectations are too high, but other
people are doing the job pretty well.
And it's just, that's theone differentiator is just
controlling the calendar.
And like you said, sayingno to certain things.
Not necessarily saying, no, but I'llget to that, but it won't be today.
(01:01:06):
It'll have to be later on this week.
Looks like I've got time Fridayat 8:00 AM will that work for you?
And that's clear communication, andthat takes some real maturity to
do that and some professionalism.
But frankly, that's what it takes toelevate in any sort of business or career.
Um, and that's really what ittakes to be truly effective
(01:01:27):
in whatever role you're in.
Keith (01:01:29):
In a recent episode, we talked about the tools that we're using.
That's really helping.
Oh yeah, we did for that.
Yeah, we did.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, if you need controlof your calendar motion,
I'm still a huge motion fan.
Yeah.
I
Sid (01:01:40):
motion may work for you.
I don't know anything about it, but.
Hell block scheduling on yourstupid Well, it blocks scheduling.
Yes.
On your stupid Apple calendar.
Yeah.
Or Google Calendar oroffice calendar, whatever.
Microsoft Office 365, whatever.
Uh, just thinking about it on Sunday andI'll be real, or early Monday morning,
Keith (01:02:02):
having designated personal meeting times has been, I used
to take meetings all day long.
Oh,
Sid (01:02:10):
that's an advanced level, yeah.
Of, of, of calendar management.
I do Out of the office meetings onFriday afternoons, that kind of stuff.
Keith (01:02:18):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
I do.
I do.
Yeah.
So I make my meeting timesnow anytime after one 30.
Sid (01:02:23):
Yeah.
Keith (01:02:23):
And so it's, I, I work all day long till one 30 and then I can have
a meeting, but I don't do meetingsanymore before I, I do it before nine 30.
I'll take a eight o'clockmeeting and then after one 30.
Sid (01:02:41):
Yeah.
Keith (01:02:41):
That's been big for me.
Sid (01:02:43):
I just think calendar management, man.
And there's, there'slots of layers to it, but
that's critical to beingproductive and not busy.
So if you're using the wordbusy, you need some adjustment.
Yeah.
If you're so busy, you feel like aboat up Halloween cat, you might want
(01:03:05):
to, uh, I got a friend that says that.
How you doing buddy?
Oh man.
I'm bowed up like a Halloween cat.
I'm like, golly.
Uh, yeah, if you're busy, you,you, you, I mean, just think, just,
just look at why are you so busy?
Is it good, busy?
I'm busy right now andit, and I think it's good.
Busy.
Yeah, I'm busy right now.
Uh, but it's a season of the season orit's a season of life and I know what
(01:03:30):
it is and I know what I'm working for.
Uh, but I'm, I'm notalways gonna be there too.
So.
I think that was a good one, man.
I think we, uh, I think we hiton all the topics we did, and
I hope this is helpful to you.
Sorry, we, uh, we got off topic.
We talked about soccer, talkedabout my resentment towards, uh,
(01:03:50):
integrators, uh, and implementers.
And then we talked about, we talked aboutKeith finally getting a car for his wife.
Uh, all kinds of other things.
But the main thing we, we, we wanted totalk about was the difference between
being busy and productive and how do youstay focused in, uh, you know, this modern
world that's gonna throw a lot at you.
(01:04:12):
Lots of distractions out there.
I think that's all I got.
Keith (01:04:17):
That's good.
All right.
I like that you did mention a term.
I, I think we can use that.
Good.
Busy.
It's good busy.
It's good.
Busy.
So if you wanna use the term, makesure it's good, busy, good busy.
Sid (01:04:29):
And it's just seasons, man.
There's, everything comesin waves, everything.
Seasons.
It's, that's a whole
Keith (01:04:34):
nother podcast.
We probably need to save that.
Oh my.
Yeah, that's some good stuff.
Sid (01:04:39):
Jotting it down now.
Thanks you guys for listening.
Thanks for, uh, thanks to our sponsors.
Please give them some support becausethey make this thing possible.
It's still free, it'snot behind a paywall.
We don't have some sort of,uh, what do they call those?
Patreon, Patreon or Substack?
Uh, we don't, it's justwe're giving it to you free.
(01:05:00):
And, uh, you know, hopefully you, uh,you, if you got anything out of this
or any of the other ones, you'll like,you'll subscribe and, and the main thing
I'd like is you to send it to someonethat you think it might be helpful for.
Send it out.
Alright.
Alright.
That's all I got.
Gotta get going.
See ya East.
Just look at why are you so busy?
(00:02):
Is it good busy?
If you're so busy you feellike a boat up Halloween cat.
You might want to, uh, Igot a friend that says that.
How you doing buddy?
Oh man.
I'm boat up like a Halloween cat.
I'm like, golly.
(00:24):
Hey everybody, and welcome to anotherepisode of the Overlap podcast, where
we dive into the intersections of work,fitness, family, faith, parenting,
and leadership, with the idea thatgrowth in one area of your life fuels
growth in all areas of your life.
That's the idea behind this podcast,and, uh, that's why we're committed
to taking lessons from business,breaking them down into simple,
(00:48):
actionable insights and empoweringsmall business leaders to thrive.
And our mission is to help reallyeveryone, not just entrepreneurs,
uh, to succeed and create meaningfulimpact in their businesses,
families, communities, and lives.
And, uh, how you doing, Keith?
I'm doing good,
Keith (01:06):
Sid.
Sid (01:07):
How are you?
I'm doing well.
We've not seen
Keith (01:08):
each
Sid (01:08):
other in a couple weeks.
Well, we've been passinglike, uh, you know.
Two ships in the night or whatever.
Yeah.
You are outta town.
I've been outta town,uh, sort of in and out.
Um, yeah, it's all right.
Staying in touch.
I know.
Keith (01:26):
And I'm
Sid (01:26):
traveling
Keith (01:27):
all week this next week too.
Yeah.
I'm out, I'm out a couple of days.
I got a conference.
I'm out Tuesday through Saturday.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Sid (01:34):
Okay.
Keith (01:36):
Um, I'm gonna be at the Berkshire investor
Sid (01:39):
Oh yeah.
With, with our buddy JoshThompson, with our buddy
Keith (01:41):
Josh.
And then I'm going to Atlantaon Tuesday, and I'm gonna fly
out of Atlanta to Berkshire.
Sid (01:46):
Okay.
The, uh, the Woodstock of capitalism,
Keith (01:51):
the wood stock of capitalism is if you've not been by one
share of Berkshire Hathaway.
Okay.
And you get a free ticket.
Sid (02:00):
Oh, there you go.
Keith (02:01):
Yep.
Sid (02:03):
And, uh, one share of Berkshire Hathaway is, is
probably a good investment.
Keith (02:06):
Uh, I think so.
I mean, it's.
500 bucks right now, I think.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
So, so not really a free ticket, nota not really free ticket, but it has
Sid (02:13):
value,
Keith (02:14):
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you don't have to buy anymore.
You, if you just keep it.
Oh, okay.
You can go year after year after year.
Oh, that's a good point.
Sid (02:22):
Yeah.
So, well, what happens when,um, when uh, when he dies,
Keith (02:30):
I, they'll keep won.
Do you think they'll keep it going?
The only reason I'm going this yearis because he's gonna die soon.
Sid (02:35):
He is gonna die.
Yeah.
I wish Charlie Munger was still alive.
That would be the bestto see both of them.
Keith (02:41):
Yeah, I didn't get to do that.
Yeah, it would, yeah.
That would've been the best.
Yep.
So, uh, last year was thefirst year I went and it was
exceptional and I learned a lot.
And I think just to be inculture of that, those, um,
quality of people.
(03:02):
Mm-hmm.
It's pretty cool to get to be around that.
It is cool.
And so that's why I'm makingthe effort to go again,
Sid (03:10):
Roger that.
Roger that.
Um, so it's been
Keith (03:15):
up
Sid (03:16):
with
Keith (03:16):
you,
Sid (03:17):
man.
Um, it's spring.
It's spring.
Um, it, we have, uh, you know, been,uh, it, it is been a good first quarter
and we had all of our quarterlies.
Uh, now the, uh, leadershipquarterly sort of sets the tone.
If you're, if you're familiar withEOS, you've got quarterly meetings.
(03:40):
Uh, and our either leadership,uh, offsite, quarterly sets
the tone and sets the, um.
The course for the next 90 days tostay on track for the annual goals.
And then the operations we'reso operations heavy, that
operations comes right after.
And then the sales team sort offollows up after that to, uh, help
(04:02):
support, you know, the leadershipagenda and the operations needs.
And, uh, that's what I've beenfocused on the last three weeks
really is kind of taking all of that.
Um, and then, then generally I willtake all of that information and create
a presentation to the team and what'scalled like the state of the company,
um, broad overview of the first quarterand, and, and kind of putting it into
(04:26):
a palatable format where everyone canunderstand and feel at least connected
with how the company's doing otherthan get your work done kind of stuff.
You know.
So that's what, that's, doyou address that in person?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
In person, uh, the whole
Keith (04:42):
team together.
Sid (04:43):
Yeah.
Well, uh, it's hard to do thatwith the, uh, the Foley branch.
Um, Justin will kind of headdown there and deliver that since
he's most connected to them.
Keith (04:52):
And his super wavy hair right now.
He's very wavy, dude.
He's, he's got locks for days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He, he's grown it out.
I walked by his office and I was like,
Sid (05:01):
ah.
Keith (05:03):
Trying, you've got great hair today.
Yeah.
He is trying
Sid (05:05):
to look like, uh, Fabio on the cover of, uh, yeah,
Keith (05:08):
like a, and he's working
Sid (05:09):
out and everything, you know?
Is he working out now?
Oh, yeah.
He is working out with Brent.
You haven't seen that?
Oh, yes.
With our buddies over at, uh, signaturetraining Studio, uh, he's doing yeah.
Personal training and,and Brent's killing him.
Good
Keith (05:22):
for him.
Sid (05:23):
I know.
Keith (05:24):
That's why he's growing his hair out.
Probably.
He thinks he's gonna get an ab
Sid (05:27):
Yeah.
One, uh, right now it's more of apony keg, but he is working on it.
Yeah.
That working on a six pack.
Uh, you went to Nashville?
Went to Nashville, hadsome meetings up there.
I saw you at Nashville.
MMA.
Yeah, I think that's, I thinkthat's Michael Chandler's gym is it?
Or something to do with it.
Really?
It, it, dude, a bunch of savages up there.
(05:48):
Bunch of young kids that are, uh, formercollege wrestlers and it was tough.
They do a lot of rounds too.
Hmm.
Like after the eighth round, Iwas like, Hey man, I got like
a whole day of meetings today.
I don't want to keep likekilling myself over here.
Uh, but it was great, man.
(06:09):
It was a great gym.
Did you see how big it was?
Yeah, they got huge.
Yeah.
They've got the whole Juujitsu side, thenthere's like this whole Muay Thai side.
Then there's this whole cage andthen they've got a whole CrossFit
area all kind of under one roof.
It was a, a cool, like used to be likea warehouse is what it looked like.
Kind of a big cinder block wall warehouse.
But they, they did it nice and they was.
(06:30):
God, there had to have been 20, 25dudes up in, up in that, uh, morning
class at 6:00 AM It was great.
I just got back from,uh, Gunville State Park.
You ever been there?
I have not actually.
You said that and I'veheard it's fantastic.
It's
Keith (06:45):
beautiful.
Sid (06:46):
Our, our, my friend Sean Sullivan, uh, loves it up there.
Yeah.
His show even says something about it.
Does it?
Okay.
Yeah.
Like
Keith (06:54):
the, the, his intro says something about from Bucks Gap.
Oh, no, that's what's his name?
That's,
Sid (07:03):
that's the political guy.
Oh, yeah.
Um,
Keith (07:06):
oh, what's his name?
Yeah.
But anyway.
Yeah.
Anyways.
Uh, on the same show?
Yeah, on the same on Sean's radio station.
Buck, right.
Buck Pocket.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Buck's Pocket to the beaches or something.
Is that,
Sid (07:14):
is that in, uh, gunners ville?
Yeah, it
Keith (07:16):
is.
Yeah.
I got to see Buck's Pocket.
What is that?
I think it's just a viewpoint.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sid (07:22):
So the, the, I've seen photos of downtown Gunners Mill.
Is that, yeah.
It's super cool.
Keith (07:26):
Yep.
Cool cigar shop right out on the water.
Oh, really?
Uh, on and, uh, there,there's, they built this new
development out there withreally cool restaurants and
sitting right out on the lake.
It's, they've got like awaterfront kind of area, huh?
Yeah.
Sid (07:45):
Yeah.
And it's sitting like on barges.
And for those that are not familiarwith the state of Alabama, lake
Gunners is like north, Northeast?
Yeah.
Northeast, yeah.
Is it north of Birmingham?
Keith (07:56):
Yep.
A little bit.
I mean, no, not north of itwould be east of Birmingham.
Sid (07:59):
East of Birmingham?
Keith (08:01):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
How do you get there?
You, uh, I 59.
59 59. And then you take littlepig railroads to, to get there
and there's a hotel there.
It's, it's really great.
You should check it out.
What was the hotel?
Did you stay at a hotel?
Yeah, we stayed at the State Park Hotel.
Oh, the state park has a hotel.
Yeah.
And the view out of thethe room is beautiful.
(08:23):
Really?
Yeah.
I mean, it's a typical state parkhotel, so it's nothing special.
Yeah.
But the view absolutely amazing.
Have you
Sid (08:31):
stayed at the state park down at the beach?
Keith (08:33):
No, I haven't either.
But it looks awesome.
Yeah.
Then they, the recentupdates are really nice.
I was just at an event there.
Um, and their event space is super nice.
Sid (08:43):
Hmm.
You love, you love an
Keith (08:45):
event.
No, I don't.
Yeah, you do.
I just have to be it up a lot.
Yeah.
You're,
Sid (08:48):
you're, you're at more events than, than, than our buddy Forest.
Yeah.
Forest dur loves an event.
Yeah, he does.
And, and the swag bags.
Keith (08:56):
Yeah.
Well, I do like some swag.
I got a really cool hat.
You're gonna be jealous of where?
At this thing?
At the, oh yeah.
Is it a
Sid (09:04):
melon
Keith (09:04):
hat?
Uh, no it's not.
But it's a new company that is, uh, I'mordering some, so I'm gonna get some,
but I'm not giving, it's not Richardson.
Nope.
Okay's not.
It's called like a SC or something.
Okay.
It's out of New Zealand.
New Zealand.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but anyway, um, it was anoutdoor recreation conference.
Um, and the state is doing some really,really cool stuff in that environment.
(09:29):
And they had those ofus, us thought leaders.
Sid (09:32):
Oh my God.
Keith (09:33):
To talk about it.
Sid (09:34):
Molly Mi Miller is rolling her.
Dr. Molly Miller is rolling her eyes.
Yeah, she's hard right now.
Uh, okay.
Li listen.
All right.
We, we got, we got allthat out of the way folks.
And, and thanks for sticking with us song.
Yeah.
We've not seen
Keith (09:50):
each other in a couple weeks.
Yeah.
So,
Sid (09:53):
so those are the happenings.
Uh, I did see you train this morning.
I did train.
I'm glad, glad to see youhaven't quit, juujitsu.
I have not.
You got, you got a littlemark on your nose there.
I bet I do.
That.
That is, uh, that is themark of gh, new Juujitsu,
Keith (10:07):
uh, Jose.
Pinpointed me and said,go get him this morning.
Oh, good.
To all the young bucks.
Yeah.
And they tried.
Sid (10:15):
Yeah, that's right.
Tried
Keith (10:17):
is the word.
Sid (10:18):
Yeah.
Well, so, so, so if anyone ev anyoneev, if anyone ever comes to, um,
check Matt Daphne, the morningclass for sure is the place to come.
Uh, because lunchtime class is brutal.
Brutal.
That's, that's where all the savages are.
And night class man, there'sgetting to be some good folks there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a little bit harder.
(10:39):
Uh, but morning class, yeah, youcan, you can get by morning class
and everyone's still half asleep.
Keith (10:45):
Yeah.
Sid (10:47):
Uh, okay.
So today, um, today we're talkingabout a topic that Keith and I
have, have, we, we've got a wholelot of experience recently in this.
Um, our lives has, uh, have.
Morphed into a lot of this.
And this is an, this is a topic we'vebeen working through for the past few
months, and we've been talking aboutinternally, um, just kind of back and
(11:12):
forth and, and, and in our conversationskind of back and forth and, and really
it's an area that I think is, um, it'sperpetuated by modern culture and that
is just how do you stay focused whenseasons of life, uh, get you going busy,
(11:35):
you know, you've just got lots on yourplate and it's not always like that.
And it's not always like that for me.
It's, and, and, and I think maybeif it's, if, if you're the person
listening right now going, it's nevernot been busy, well maybe this one
will be helpful for you as well.
Um, so today's topicis, is staying focused.
(11:58):
Then there's just a difference betweenbeing busy and being productive.
So, um, to, to kind of really kick us offafter kind of broaching the subject there.
Uh, I just think that in modernculture, like I mentioned before, it
is almost look down upon if, especiallyin American culture, if you're, if
(12:21):
someone says, Hey, how's it going?
And if you don't say busy, youfeel guilty and you feel less than
and you feel like you're slackingoff, um, would you agree with that?
Uh, absolutely would.
Yeah.
So, um, and, and I just think that that's.
One, I get where it comes from and,and listen, we all kind of get ahead
(12:44):
in America and America's sort ofthat, you know, western frontier and
bootstrapping yourself and self-made man.
And everyone loves that story.
And, and, and I'm, and I believe inthat, uh, that no one's gonna come save
you and you've gotta put in the workto get the results you're looking for.
Uh, whether there's some overlaps there,whether that's fitness, education, career,
(13:07):
relationships, uh, jujitsu, whatever.
Um, you do have to put in the work.
However, um.
There is a difference betweenbeing busy and being productive.
And when we're talking about,let's just bring it down to
just business at a high level.
Um, if you're leading in any way,shape, or form, business doesn't
(13:30):
require, and they're damn sureyour leader is not looking for a
Superman, um, a Superman or a fireman.
And what I mean by that is, is like stopbeing the damn hero and trying to just
go put out all these fires that perhapsyou are setting, you know, by not being
thoughtful and intentional with how you,uh, set up your day, your week, your
(13:53):
month, or how you approach the problems.
You know, if you're just beingreactive and running around and
around and around putting outfires, you're probably gonna be.
Caught up doing that for a long timeuntil you figure out what the hell's
going on and what's causing the fires.
Keith (14:08):
I also think busy is a cop out.
Sid (14:10):
Yeah.
I don't disagree with that.
So when you talk to, yeah.
Double click on that for us a little
Keith (14:14):
bit.
When you, when you talk to someone that'sjust them getting by, if you want to,
if you wanna dig in to their busyness,ask em, well how have you been busy?
And make them explain it.
Because most of the time people can't
like, yeah.
When I ask you what youhad been, oh, just busy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just, I'm just busy.
Yeah.
And so when I ask you what youhad been doing a while ago, you,
(14:38):
you named off things like Yeah.
Getting the team together, doingthe state of the Union address.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, preparing for that,traveling, you know, so that, that is
productivity in the right direction.
But I think a lot of times weuse the term busy and we're not
going in the right direction.
(15:00):
Gotcha.
I've been there.
Yeah, me too.
I've been on the, the wheel, so to speak
Speaker 6 (15:06):
mm-hmm.
Keith (15:07):
And felt like I was like just working my tail off.
But yet when I look back, I was atthe same place that I started from.
Sid (15:15):
Yeah.
Just spinning my wheels.
Yeah.
Running in quicksand.
Yeah.
I, I don't disagree that beingbusy is a cop out for, um,
spinning your wheels and not reallyknowing what you're getting done.
Keith (15:26):
I also believe that those of us who lead organizations
put this unsaid expectation onour team members to be busy.
Yeah.
Instead of productive.
Sid (15:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You feel a little guilty if you'renot putting in work every minute of
every day, uh, feeling like you'rebeing a productive member of the team.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes.
Okay,
Keith (15:54):
so I can, I can relate to that.
What we need to do is defineproductivity versus busyness.
Sure.
And so, and how would you do that?
I would say productivity ismoving in the, in, in a forward
direction of the goals in which you
Sid (16:18):
are
Keith (16:18):
trying to attain.
Sid (16:19):
Okay.
So that, with that premise,step one is you'd have to know
what are the goals, right?
So we'll start with theend in mind with the goals.
Keith (16:30):
Yeah.
So whatever the goal is, I thinkyou have to really define your what,
say what does success look like?
What does success look like?
Yeah.
And maybe that's the job of the,the manager or owner to define
what does success look like.
Man, I
Sid (16:46):
don't disagree with you, but I don't think everyone has, uh, a leader
that is as thoughtful as that tosay, Hey, just to help you understand
this is what success looks like.
That's, that's a pretty high level leaderwith I. With some intentionality there.
And I've been in this
Keith (17:03):
world lately and I was, I realized that I didn't have that.
Yeah.
When I brought new team team members on.
What does success look like to you?
Yeah.
I think a lot of times we askpeople to help, Hey, just come help.
We wanna hire you just to come help us.
And then we never tell themthe goal they're going after.
Sid (17:28):
Yeah.
I can, I can go, I can go a lot of,I can go a lot of ways on this one.
Um hmm.
So, number one, you've heardme talk about talent maps.
Keith (17:37):
Yep.
Sid (17:38):
Uh, and, and I'll start like real high level, um.
And, and man, we're just kindof jumping in here, guys.
Um, if you are the leader and you're,and you're catching yourself in the
scenario where you're hiring someoneand you feel like perhaps you're not
giving them good direction or goodleadership about what success looks
(17:59):
like, like I want you to come on board.
Um, number one, you need to makesure my job, you need to make sure
this, you need to make sure of this.
And this is the conversationI have with myself.
And, and really this is the conversationI have with, with any of those reports
is, Hey, look, I really appreciate youbeing here, but I want to make sure
(18:20):
that we're on the same page that my jobis to in, in the company, is to make
sure that I get a good return on thedollars invested in your employment.
I think that there's a misunderstandingwith employment and, and I don't,
and I don't mean to sound like somesort of harsh capitalist, uh, but
it is like you're not here making.
(18:41):
$20 an hour or 70,000 a year withbenefits or a hundred thousand a
year in benefits because I likeyou and I want you to be around me.
Let's just clear that up.
Your job is to do this at this levelto produce this outcome, and if that is
(19:01):
produced, then these, then this payment isa good return on the investment of those
dollars being spent on your employment.
Now, if they aren't, then oneof two things is happening here.
It's either I.
You're not committed to the execution ofthat, or I haven't given you the tools
or the direction to help you get there.
(19:22):
And we've gotta figure that outin a relatively quick manner.
And so we're going tomeet every other week.
And then here's your scorecard.
So I know that you know how you're doing,you know how you're doing, and you know,
we can work together to help you achievethose goals on a consistent basis.
So consistently you cancontinue to get paid.
(19:43):
That sounds harsh, but that iswhat every business is doing.
No one is hired because.
Someone wants them to just be around.
Uh, okay.
Not many, hardly anyare, are getting paid.
Now, you might, if you're a Kennedy,you might be on someone's board
(20:04):
getting paid because of the influence.
You might be, I'm sorry, uh,uh, a Biden, sorry, just joking.
I'm trying to wind Keith up, buthe is not taking any of the bait.
Uh, but you know, you get,you get what I'm saying?
I think that, that, that stuff is there.
Uh,
so there's that from the leader, butthe other side is, let's say you don't
(20:26):
have anyone that, that, that is, um,that forward, that direct, and that
clear with their expectations, well thenit's your job to ask those questions.
And or if you can't get the answers tothose, then to really self define what
leader, what, um, what success looks like.
Keith (20:45):
So what you're basically saying is that you should have
KPIs for every position that you.
Have.
Sid (20:52):
Yeah.
And, and, and there shouldn't.
Yeah.
You should.
You as a leader should have KPIsfor every position that you have,
uh, in your organization andsomeone needs to be watching them.
And then the people that are,uh, producing those KPIs, they
need to be responsible for it.
They need to know what they are.
And, and, and you really should becoaching these people to help them
(21:14):
be successful and hit those KPIs.
Keith (21:18):
But that's where most people go wrong, is they don't have KPIs for
Sid (21:22):
That's what I was gonna say.
The, that's where, that'swhere it gets fuzzy.
Keith (21:27):
That's where I went wrong.
Quite frankly.
That's why I've taken the last threeweeks to write KPIs for every position.
I'm pretty blessed in the factthat I'm building a team, so I
don't already have one there.
Yeah.
And so, but I was like, if I starthiring people with no KPIs, I'm not
(21:47):
gonna even know who I need to hire.
Mm-hmm.
To.
I don't, I'm not going to be ableto give clear direction on what I
need from the people that I hire.
Yeah.
Uh, and I believe we get in,especially in a growth period.
(22:07):
Yeah.
We just, we just hire the willing.
Sid (22:13):
We do, we do.
And we're just adding numbers to theteam thinking that that's gonna help.
It's sort of like the, the parallelis sort of like, I'm on, I'm on
a, uh, I'm running a company thatdoesn't have any systems or really
any foundational, uh, processes.
Uh, and we're not making money.
But my answer to that is just more sales.
(22:36):
It's not gonna solve the problem.
Adding more people, team membersto the team doesn't help you be
more successful or more productive.
It just adds more overhead.
Everyone's flailing.
Keith (22:50):
No.
It's just the myth that we'reexperiencing pressure so that
we need to add people to fix it.
Sid (22:57):
Yeah.
I can't do it all.
I need more.
I need more help.
Keith (23:00):
Yeah.
Sid (23:00):
Cool.
What does that look like?
I don't know, but I need more help.
Hey,
Keith (23:03):
let me tell you about a friend of the show called Content Fresh.
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(23:26):
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Sid (23:32):
I wanna take a moment to talk about someone who's been instrumental
in my personal and business success.
That's Johnny Barranco andhis team at Barranco and
Associates for over seven years.
Johnny has been my go-to accountantand financial consultant.
I can tell you that he's morethan just a tax preparer.
Johnny takes a holistic approach to allmy financial dealings, aligning them with
my long-term plans and personal lifestyle.
(23:56):
I've recommended Johnny to several friendsthroughout different business groups
around the country, and the feedbackhas been nothing short of exceptional.
His expertise and service are top-notch.
So if you're looking for someone whonot only prepares your taxes, but also
helps you strategize for the future,Johnny and his team at Barranco and
Associates are the ones to call.
(24:16):
Trust me, you won't regret it.
So contact Johnny Barranco today and takethe first steps towards financial peace.
You're not gonna regret this.
So I'd like to, I'd like to shift this,um, w there's two, there's two areas
I'd like to make sure that we touchon, and one of 'em, the next one, and
(24:36):
I think it sort of ties right into it.
You mentioned you're building a team,um, and you mentioned that you're,
you know, you're looking at addingthese people and you said something,
and I know I was, I was pretty, I waspretty shocked that you said something
poignant in, in this, in this arena.
Uh, and it was, um, you brought up thePareto principle was, was necessary.
(25:00):
While you're building your team, whydon't you go ahead and double click into
that and, and, and flesh that out forthe audience of why 80 20 is is important
when you're thinking about your team andhow you're building your team around you.
Keith (25:16):
I love u PC users that are still double clicking.
Sid (25:18):
Yeah.
Keith (25:19):
But um, I
Sid (25:20):
think you still double click.
Like I'm double clicking right now onmy iPad and it, and it goes in tighter.
Keith (25:25):
Oh, okay.
Sid (25:26):
Yeah,
Keith (25:27):
yeah.
I just click once, you know.
Well, um, but so
we talk about this principle all the time.
80 20. Yeah.
Sid (25:38):
80 20.
It's everywhere
Keith (25:39):
In business.
In business we talk aboutin life we talk about it.
Yeah.
Oh, 20% of your actions gonna get it.
Sid (25:45):
80%
Keith (25:46):
of the results.
80% of the results.
Sid (25:47):
Yeah.
20% of your customers produce 80% ofyour profit or revenue or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
But 80% of your marketing's, Imean, 20% of your marketing's gonna
produce 80% of your leads, whatever.
And then,
Keith (26:00):
yeah.
And then so, but how long have I justwandered around skipping, not even
looking at the 20% in which I'm good at.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
How many times have I just, I justhad this talk with my wife actually.
Um, it didn't go very well.
(26:21):
Oh, yeah, I was about to say, I'msure that, I'm sure that was a winner.
Trying to, uh, she thinks she's avideographer and she's Oh, good.
And she's not.
Sid (26:30):
Oh, is she not?
Okay.
No.
Yeah, I bet that conversation went great.
Keith (26:34):
It did
Sid (26:34):
not, it did not go through.
You think you're something you're not.
Got it.
Keith (26:37):
Yeah.
She's taking a video rightnow as we do this podcast.
Oh, good.
Yeah, Tim, she's taking a videoright now as we do this podcast, but
Tim is seeing her video work, but, um,
(26:59):
yeah.
Oh yeah.
That's a good one.
Yes.
You're gonna have to fix, fix that one.
Oh, look at that.
But, but, but
Sid (27:06):
Well, at least he's covering it up.
Yeah,
Keith (27:08):
he's, yeah.
You cover that thing up.
Sid (27:11):
Yeah.
Keith (27:12):
But.
Up until we really started doing thispodcast, I, I've actually learned a
ton of business knowledge by doing thispodcast because I've had to study Uhhuh.
Um, believe it or not, our failuresmost of the time stick out on this
podcast more than our successes.
Sure, sure.
(27:32):
And so, um, I just realized I've walkedaround in life most of my life, just not
even paying attention, having heard thatprinciple, all of my business career.
Speaker 6 (27:43):
Mm-hmm.
Keith (27:45):
And
what I've began doing recently in thelast couple years is looking, okay, what
do I need to build around my strength?
Mm-hmm.
And I don't think a lot of founders
Sid (28:04):
do that.
Okay.
So how do you do that?
One?
One, the audience is dying toknow what's your, what's your 20%?
Keith (28:11):
What's my 20%?
What's your
Sid (28:13):
20%?
Networking.
Okay.
Keith (28:15):
And Rick Miller helped me with this more than anyone.
Okay.
Um, partnerships.
Okay.
Working partnerships out isexactly what I do at Hatch.
Okay.
Um, and then inspiring.
Okay.
And so all the,
Sid (28:36):
all the soft
Keith (28:37):
skills.
All the soft skills sales.
Okay.
You know, I can sell a little bit.
Sid (28:40):
Okay.
Sales.
Keith (28:41):
Yeah.
So, so I need to be outthere selling the work.
Now that looks different.
A lot of times it may be that I needto equip the people that are, that
are going to sell, sell the work.
Okay.
And I'm pretty good at that.
Sid (28:58):
But in But in your role right now, I would imagine, yeah.
You're out there.
Yeah.
Strategic part out there,selling strategic partnership,
selling why you're even with the
Keith (29:05):
publishing companies.
Okay.
I don't need to do anythingother than recruiting authors.
Okay.
Getting them in thedeal flow, so to speak.
And then I need to hire peopleto do the execution of the work.
Gotcha.
I'm not wonderful.
I can do it because I've been doingit so long at the organizational
(29:28):
skills that it takes to get a productfrom point A to point B. Gotcha.
I'm really great at defining whatthe product is and then going
out and taking it to the market.
Sid (29:42):
And then so what you're saying is, is being honest with yourself and not.
And having the humility to say, theseare the things that I'm good at and these
are the things that I'm not so good at.
This is my 20%, and then this other80% of all of the stuff that takes a
product from A to Z. Uh, the 80% of that.
(30:03):
I need to get folks to do that.
And so that gives you a roadmap toset the KPIs and get you an idea
of who needs to do what or howmany people or whatever, right?
Yeah.
I have the, that's, that's the area that Iwanted to make sure we double clicked on.
'cause people are like, oh, okay, cool.
I hear y'all saying stay focused andthere's a difference between being
(30:25):
busy and being productive, but,you know, I gotta do everything.
And what I wanted to really, likeI said, double click on was that.
You need to first figure out what itis you're good at and what it is that
you can and should be doing for theorganization, for your family, for the
community, whatever, you know, whatare the things that you should be doing
(30:46):
and what are the things that still needto be done that you're not great at.
That if you do bring in people, ifyou're not a solopreneur, uh, or even
if you are and you're gonna, you'regonna, you know, maybe outsource with
some, uh, what do you call those?
Freelance people or, or whatever.
Yeah.
Contractors.
Contractors.
Thank you.
Um, if you're gonna do that, thenyou, you, it does give you a, at
(31:09):
least an understanding of whatyou're going to need, uh, instead
of just taking on whoever, you know?
Yeah.
Keith (31:15):
I don't need to hire someone for marketing vision.
Yeah.
I don't need to hire someone that createsproducts that we do in publishing.
Yeah.
I know that world.
Yeah.
That's the world that I know.
Getting the production tohappen is where I'm weak.
Yeah.
Staying on the people that arewriting the book, that are formulating
(31:41):
the book, that know how to spell.
Sid (31:44):
No, I'm out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm out.
I'm out inside.
Joking.
Our family in my, I'm terrible spelling
Keith (31:52):
my, in my organization, preparing the finances
Sid (31:57):
not great at Gotcha.
So you need, I mean, even when Ihelp, you need help with operations.
Yeah.
You need help with finance.
Yeah.
And you need help with management.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
Like when I sit down with Natasha, Ilook at her and I say, Natasha from
Barranco and Associates are, arecorrect, are accounting, uh, sponsor.
Keith (32:18):
I'm like, Natasha, can you, I need you to speak to me
like I'm a kindergartner here.
And she does that really well.
Yeah, she does.
She does.
She says, she doesn't say it like this,but it comes across a little bit like
this now that we've been working together.
Uhhuh.
Okay, dummy.
(32:39):
Oh, okay.
This is what we do.
And she says it like, I'ma kindergartner, you know?
Gotcha.
And, and she does That exexplains it super well.
Sid (32:47):
Well, so that's the area that I really wanted to make sure that we kind
of honed in on because what is you 20?
What me?
Yeah.
Um, man, I'm good.
I I'm good with like, long-term vision.
Mm-hmm.
I can kind of see where an organiza,where the, where the possibilities are.
Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm good with,I'm good with big picture.
(33:08):
So e even operationally I can see.
Operationally, I can see the,the wares, uh, um, wares.
I can see where you can save some time,where you can save, uh, effort, where
you can, uh, improve some efficiencies.
Um, uh, marketing pretty good with thatcontent, uh, in, um, content creation.
(33:30):
And how do we get that to thecustomer in a, in a, in a manner
that it connects with them.
Good with sales.
Uh, what I'm not great with are details.
I'm good with finances, eespecially at a high level.
Uh, but I just, I get bored.
And so if it comes to day-to-day, weekto week management of something other
(33:51):
than some things that I'm interested in,uh, I, I don't do real well with that.
'cause I'll find something, I'llfind some shiny object in the next
month and, and go chase that down.
So, to backfill me, I need like super, I.Organized, disciplined folks that do it.
And that's where Justincomes in and he's fantastic.
Him and I are on the same page.
(34:12):
He just likes grinding it out, you know?
Uh, and I like keeping moving forward,uh, and kind of developing this idea
out and then fleshing it out with him.
And then he takes it andkind of runs with it.
And then Jamie is superdisciplined and organized.
Um, however, she just runs the finances to
Keith (34:36):
know that about yourself.
It
Sid (34:38):
took a long time.
It
Keith (34:40):
took a long time.
Did you ever try to delve in places?
Oh, yeah.
All that.
However.
I would say that that is necessary.
Sid (34:48):
I think so too.
I was gonna say that actually I hadto do all of those jobs and get mad
at myself and think that I was like,something was wrong with me and how,
how could I be so unorganized anddisciplined and all undisciplined?
Because, I mean, for the most partof my life, I'm pretty disciplined.
(35:09):
But when it comes to like.
For the next three years workingon this problem day in and day out.
Because if you got a, if you got anorganization at a certain size, it's
gonna take a longer time to sortof turn that ship in a direction.
Uh, and so if we've got a new initiative,I don't know what that might be, but
like, let's say you're gonna add a a,a new service, a a department, it's
(35:34):
gonna take three years, lots of timesin our world to get that, to really
get legs where it's on its own and itcan afford to have someone really run
it with their own KPIs and, and, and,and, and get them plugged into it.
And so, uh, we've had departments orinitiatives that didn't really do well
for like five years because it was kindof my baby and I would get it going and
(35:59):
then I would lose sight of it, you know?
And no one really owned it.
Um, but I had to, I had to go throughthat, like you said, to, to sort of
recognize that and go, oh, that's just me.
I will say EOS.
And its language where like, oh, there'svisionaries, there's integrators,
there's operators, there's all thisother stuff that I can go, oh my God,
okay, I could put a name to what I am andgo, all right, it's not the end of the
(36:25):
world if that's who I am or what I am.
I will say this for all you integratorsout there that like to Jan on visionaries.
Um, here's my personal rant.
Uh, you're welcome.
You're welcome.
'cause you wouldn't havea job if it wasn't for us.
Absolutely.
So you can take that and do whatever youwant with it, but, uh, you're welcome.
'cause those of us that take risks andput our names on the notes, uh, you know,
(36:48):
those are the loans that they get to comeand get our homes if we don't pay 'em.
Uh, you're welcome.
Keith (36:53):
Now, by the way, we put our name on notes we probably shouldn't
have had just because of our video.
Yeah, probably.
Sid (36:58):
Probably.
But, you know, then my personal rantis that I'm just kind of tired of
integrators sort of taking, takinga jab at, uh, visionaries because
they show up late and they, uh, theygot lots of ideas and I'm just Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how the world goes around.
Uh, sorry.
I mean, my brain's kind of thinkingabout eight ideas last night and, uh,
sort of honing those out this morning.
(37:20):
And I, I also think, andkind of getting, getting
Keith (37:21):
them, getting them on paper.
I also think we visionaries.
Are a little moreself-aware than most though.
Sid (37:30):
Ooh.
Keith (37:30):
Some
Sid (37:30):
are.
Some aren't, you
Keith (37:31):
think?
Sid (37:32):
Yeah.
Well, but I think, I thinklife and business beats, uh,
visionaries if you're in the gamelong enough into self-awareness.
Keith (37:40):
Yeah, I do too.
Because you just have to, I alsobelieve we are lacking individuals in
society probably with self-awareness.
With
Sid (37:50):
self-awareness.
Oh my God.
We were talking about that withcollege students just, uh, just
before we started this podcast.
And there's some real Unselfaware folks.
Hmm.
Look, just because you, it's
Keith (38:02):
rapid.
Sid (38:03):
Yeah.
Just because you stayed in, in collegethat your mommy and daddy paid for and,
and it was a great time and you showedup for class enough to get some Cs.
Uh, doesn't mean you know anything.
No.
Keith (38:15):
I'm gonna be with some real un not self-aware people
tonight at the Wilco show.
Yeah, I'll be there too.
Sid (38:22):
I'm
Keith (38:22):
I,
Sid (38:22):
yeah.
Yeah.
Hey, uh, just a plug for the, uh,coastal Alabama Community College system.
Uh, they do a fantastic job withtheir, uh, spring and fall concert
series in downtown Fairhope.
Man, they do.
It's a great job.
It is
Keith (38:40):
fantastic.
If you wanna come to Fairhope,dude, come during Live at five.
Sid (38:44):
Live at
Keith (38:45):
five Fridays In the spring.
In the fall.
In the fall, yeah.
Yep.
Sid (38:50):
It's fantastic.
Yeah, it was, uh, it's a good stuff.
We went to Old Crow Medicine Show,what, two or three weeks ago?
Yeah, two weeks ago.
It was good, dude.
It was fantastic.
And then Wilco's playing
Keith (39:00):
the night.
Wilco's
Sid (39:01):
playing tonight.
That's crazy.
That would be great.
Keith (39:02):
I'm, I'm buying a T-shirt.
Are you?
Yeah.
I'm gonna get a Wilco shirt.
I
Sid (39:06):
always say that.
And I always buy a t-shirtand I never wear 'em.
Keith (39:09):
I'm gonna do it.
I want a Black Rock t-shirt.
Do you?
Yeah.
Sid (39:14):
Huh.
All
Keith (39:16):
I've got are juujitsu T-shirts.
I know, me too.
But mine's stinking right now'cause I've not competed in a while.
Yeah.
And you know how they just,they just start stinking, they
Sid (39:23):
just start stinking, but okay, back to it.
Sorry.
Speaking of visionariesand getting off track.
Yeah.
And squirreling.
Uh, yeah.
So
Keith (39:34):
I think we've gotta talk about, you know, we've talked about being self-aware.
Yeah.
And in that part of self-awareness,the ability to say no to certain
things is pretty critical.
Sid (39:50):
Okay.
Flesh that out for me.
Keith (39:52):
The power of saying no as you develop in your, this is your
thing, this is your thing here
Sid (39:57):
lately.
Keith (39:58):
Yeah.
The power of saying no is you develop asa entrepreneur and a, and a founder and
a business operator is the most criticalthing I. You can have as you scale.
Sid (40:14):
Okay.
I can agree with you as you scalewhen you're getting started.
No.
Is not real.
No.
You need to say Yeah.
You're saying yes all the time.
And we talked
Keith (40:22):
about, yeah.
You should say yes all the time.
Sid (40:24):
Yeah.
Keith (40:24):
But that because
Sid (40:24):
you're getting reps well and, but eventually you figure out what you're
good at and what you're not good at.
But that then you gotta say no.
Keith (40:30):
Right.
That also helps you define your twenties.
I was gonna say.
Yeah.
Like when I first started my business,I took every media job I could get.
Yeah,
Sid (40:38):
sure.
We'll do that video commercial.
We've got a videographer right over here.
Keith (40:42):
Yeah.
It's my wife and I and Iwas lying the whole time.
Oh man.
You know, most of the time.
Sid (40:47):
Yeah.
I
Keith (40:47):
mean.
Think about when you started sexting.
You too.
We did.
Sid (40:50):
We did all kinds of things that you took
Keith (40:52):
landscape jobs, you probably shouldn't, we shouldn't
Sid (40:54):
have.
We did ponds that we shouldn't havedone with water features that like
I was trying to learn on the job.
Yep.
Um, yeah.
And they might have been a littletoo big to start with and you
have to, but you have to do that.
Yeah.
You do.
To
Keith (41:08):
know what you're good at.
Yeah.
And you have to do that toknow what you're capable of.
Yeah.
The things that I pushed myselfto do that I found out I was good
at is the things that drove myop, my business into success.
Sid (41:25):
Yeah.
Keith (41:26):
And had I not done those things,
I would've never had the biggestprofit centers in my company.
Sid (41:36):
Yeah.
The overlap there that came tomind is like a jiujitsu tournament.
Right.
Like when's it time to do aJiujitsu tournament right now?
Yeah, because you really get tosee when someone else is fired
up about breaking your arm.
Like just
Keith (41:51):
yeah.
How good you are, how good
Sid (41:52):
are you?
Yeah.
You know, and uh, I and lots of times,lots of times, you know, and it's okay.
You either win or you learn.
Keith (41:59):
I don't know that I should have been doing a Jiujitsu tournament.
You should three weeks.
You should know Three weeks.
I was gonna say, I was
Sid (42:05):
gonna say that, that was, that.
That's probably not good.
Keith (42:08):
I mean, I, but I will say I didn't know I was doing a Jiujitsu tournament.
Sid (42:14):
Oh, well, fun.
That's fun.
Keith (42:16):
Like Scott had a key in the back of the car, uhhuh and a belt in the back
of the car, and we showed up to the tableand I'm standing by him and he goes.
Keith Klein.
Yeah.
And uh, he said, I signed you up.
Oh,
Sid (42:31):
well that's fun.
Keith (42:32):
He said, you're competing.
That's fun.
I didn't get tapped.
Sid (42:38):
I got beat bad.
I tried this one new businessthing and I didn't go bankrupt.
That's good.
Been there.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Me too.
Um, but I'm with you.
I'm with you.
That, that early on you gotta say yes.
Uh, because one, it gives you some repsand, and rep repetitions just allow
you to, to get more experience quicker.
(43:00):
Uh, and then eventually withthose repetitions, you start to
figure out like, what are you,what are you naturally good at?
What do you like?
And then what do you naturallyhate and what are you not good at?
And then you can start developingthe idea of what your 80 20 is.
At least at that moment in your life.
And then maybe you could startasking for some help once you've
(43:23):
got some self-awareness, likeyou said about doing that.
And you can, uh, and then you can startsaying no with some confidence that
it's okay to say no about this stuff.
Keith (43:34):
Well, and
it gives you, saying yes, gives youthe confidence to begin to say no.
Yes.
When I say no is the, my favorite wordnow, that's 20 years in the business.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I probably didn't startsaying no soon enough.
Sid (43:56):
Oh, well isn't that like everyone, doesn't, everyone, you, you know, you,
you gotta not say no soon enough to havethe mistakes and the, and the scars to go.
I'm definitely gonna sayno now about these things.
You know?
I think that's everyone.
I think that's justpart of, I think that's,
that's just man.
(44:17):
Some prices are higher and somepeople, you know, learn to say
no way later in, in, in life.
Or maybe they never do.
But the ones that do, uh, theyprobably all say you wanna
talk, said should sooner.
Keith (44:29):
Let me tell you where I should've said no.
And this is an overlapsituation in the family.
Sid (44:34):
Okay.
Keith (44:34):
When my wife came and said, I want a Jeep Wrangler.
Oh yeah.
And I knew she ain't gonna like a Jeep.
She likes heated seats.
Well, they do make those.
Well, and this Jeep had heated seats.
Oh, okay.
And she likes a smooth fried Oh, well they
Sid (44:50):
don't have that.
They do not.
Okay.
Yeah.
I think that's more of aconversation and let's, okay.
You say you want that?
Let's, uh, let's try one out.
Let's rent one for a week.
Keith (45:04):
Oh, but she would've liked it for a week.
She, you think so?
Because it was new and cool, butI knew she wasn't gonna like it.
I mean, three weeks in, she was like,we gotta get rid of this piece of junk.
Huh?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now she's got a plush
Sid (45:15):
little.
Did did you finally buy a car?
Keith (45:18):
We bought a car.
Sid (45:19):
Oh my God.
Oh, I'm texting the group.
So another inside joke for howmany weeks now have I been,
Keith (45:26):
have we been reading a car?
I,
Sid (45:27):
I have been, I have been hounding Keith in a group text message with, uh,
his wife, me, and, and, and, and someothers of like, Keith, where are you at?
Are you buying Stephanie a car?
It was Stephanie's birthday.
And I was like, ah, you guys aren't here.
You must be out buying a carand like every other day.
Keith (45:46):
Yeah, we bought a car.
It's good times.
Uh, we were in a car, but it, the rentingfor a couple weeks was good because
it let her drive several differentcars, Uhhuh it, let her kind of see
what she liked, what she didn't uhhuh.
It was good.
Well, good.
If you're looking at buying a car,I would suggest go rent and we
change cars every week, so she drovelike three different types of cars.
Sid (46:09):
Well, that's a different way of doing it.
Keith (46:11):
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(46:34):
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Sid (46:55):
If you're a small business owner looking to take your business
to the next level, listen up.
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Now he's partnered with Rick Miller.
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(47:19):
it's not just for the tree industry.
This course applies to anysmall service business.
Check out tree business.comor hit the link on the overlap
homepage to learn more.
Before we run out of time, I didwant to, I wanted to shift gears to
the second part, which was the firstone was, Hey, if you're a leader,
(47:41):
you kind of gotta know where, where,where, um, where your 80 20 is.
And then you've got to kind of def, notkind of, you do need to define the role if
you're gonna ask for help, whether that'sa contractor or whether that's someone
on your team and it's your job to helpthem, or it's your job to give them KPIs,
key performance indicators, uh, developa scorecard for them and, and then coach
(48:06):
them to be successful in that arena.
Make a little bit of time to, to check inon that and coach them to be successful
in the role and, and give them thetools to know what success looks like.
The second thing I wanted to talk aboutis say you're not the leader and you're
not in control over that and you, youare working somewhere, and I think this
is pretty pervasive, that no one hasgiven you KPIs and no one has really
(48:31):
clearly defined what success looks like.
I think it's up to you if you don'thave access to that, to just do your
best job to figure out what that is.
Because if you aim at nothing,you'll hit it every time.
I use that one a lot because Ithink that that really does sort of.
(48:52):
Encompass what?
Being productive, but not, I mean,being busy but not being productive.
It, it entails is that I'm just super busydoing things, but I accomplish nothing.
I never make progress, like youwere saying, towards that end goal.
All I'm really doing is just answeringthe next email, returning the, the last
(49:14):
phone call, going to see the customer thatsquawks the loudest or whatever it is.
And I'm never making pro meaningfulprogress towards an end goal.
And, uh, I think like the, theleader that took the time to think
about what does success look like?
I think it's your job that you, the, uh,the person and whether this is at home
(49:40):
too, but figure out what does successlook like and what, what, what are the,
what are the daily, weekly, monthlydrivers that will get me to success?
Is that.
Hitting with you there, Keith Kleins.
Keith (49:53):
It is.
And what I would say, if you workfor an organization that you do
not feel supported and you don'tknow what success looks like,
ask the boss.
Yeah.
Go.
And that would be, I would love ifpeople would come to me and say, Hey,
(50:14):
I know I'm telling you I'm busy allday long, but I really don't even
know what in the heck I'm doing.
Sid (50:19):
Yeah.
I'm concerned because I feellike I'm spinning my wheels.
Yeah.
So if you, that'd be good.
Keith (50:24):
If you feel like, and, and I would venture to say this, if you work
for an organization and you feel likeyou're spinning your wheels, you don't
have clearly defined KPIs to follow.
And that's probably the personwho owns the business fault.
Yeah.
And that's fine.
You don't have to tell 'emthat, but you could say, Hey,
what does success look like?
What do you think successlooks like for me?
(50:46):
In my role?
Yeah.
Yeah.
In my role I was talking to.
A, um, business operator yesterday, theyhad an individual quit their business
Sid (50:56):
mm-hmm.
Keith (50:57):
Because of that reason,
Sid (50:59):
because they didn't know, she didn't
Keith (51:00):
know what success looked like.
And it was, she got, she got frustrated.
Sid (51:06):
Hmm.
Yeah.
People don't leave jobs,they leave leaders.
Correct.
And, and maybe people just don'tstop and ask the question like
that, like you said, and, and theywere, they just get frustrated
Keith (51:19):
were, they were able to salvage her quitting by calling
her and saying, what is the deal?
And that's exactly what she told them.
Hmm.
Was, I have no idea what I'm doing.
Gotcha.
I have no idea what you want from me.
Sid (51:33):
And I don't know if I'm winning or losing,
Keith (51:34):
and I don't know if I'm, people hate to not be in the middle.
Sid (51:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
People like, no, listen.
Okay.
And this was the analogyand now we're getting to it.
So.
Imagine you're playing a game.
What game?
Basketball.
Mm-hmm.
Something.
Let's say.
Let's say basketball, well's soccer,football, football, whatever.
You're playing a game, butwe're not keeping score.
How interested in the game are you?
(51:59):
Are you ha are you, are you makingthat, that block every play that
like, you mean it every time orare you driving to the basket?
Are you getting back ondefense if you lose the ball?
You know, are you doing any of that?
If we're not keeping score, thereused to be this BAS basketball league
caught upward when my kid Oh yeah.
I know about Upward.
(52:19):
Ezra.
Ezra played one year.
Yeah.
Of
Keith (52:21):
that.
I coached an upward.
Oh, did you?
I did.
Okay.
But every time they would come tothe bitch, I would, I would let them
know if they were winning or losing.
Sid (52:30):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Told And you said bench?
I not bitch.
Yeah.
Binge.
Okay.
Bench.
Okay, got it.
Yeah.
All right.
Uh, so you would tell themif they're winning or losing?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
That's an interesting take.
Yeah.
Keith (52:43):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I was like, we'regonna pray after, but we,
but we all should also should
Sid (52:50):
keep score.
Hey, CYO soccer, we were prayingbefore and after and it, uh,
we're definitely keeping score.
Yeah.
Evan Sexton is keeping score son.
Yeah.
He is not, he ain't, he ain't having it.
Keith (53:03):
Yeah.
Oh, I would bring my kids tothe sideline and I would say.
Do not listen to anything.
That guy in the middle of thecourt just said, oh my God, it
does matter if you win or lose.
Oh my God.
Because, you know, they started everyawkward with it doesn't matter if you
win or lose, it's how you play the game.
I'm like, absolutely not.
Sid (53:21):
Well, okay, I'll give you a little Okay.
I'll give you a little bitof coaching, uh, inside.
Uh, so I've been in soccerfor, oh my God, how old am I?
So 40 years.
Yeah, 40.
That sounds crazy.
Um, and at a super highlevel for like 10 years.
Right.
And in the, and then, andthen I was a president of a
(53:41):
cl of, you know, soccer club.
And I'll say from that age grade, agerange, when kids start getting into soccer
from six till about 12, um, is wherewe had the most problem with parents.
Because we would be trying to implementkids to play soccer the right way,
(54:01):
which would be building out from theback, uh, playing with less touches,
like two, three touches, and then finda pass or, you know, stuff like that.
And, um, there would be other kidsthat might be larger and more athletic
and more fast and all that stuff.
Right.
And especially about 10, 11 when they'retrying to figure out the skill aspect.
(54:24):
And, and, and, and like positioning.
We would get smoked, not smoked, wewould get beat, uh, and we would get
beat by some teens that weren't as good.
And you just have to constantly keepreminding 'em like it's gonna work out.
I know we got beat.
Oh, I know we didn't go win theDaphne Surf Cup or whatever, you
(54:44):
know, with eight other teams there.
It's going to be okay.
And parents would get wound up about it.
And I, and look, I don't, I hatelosing too, but I, like, I knew
that this was the way to go.
And by the time you, they got tobe about 14, they didn't lose those
teams that didn't like take the time.
Okay.
(55:04):
Take, take the, uh, take the athleticjuujitsu guy that never, that never
takes the time to learn technique.
Eventually they justget smoked by the guy.
That, that just focuses on technique.
It just takes a longer period of time.
Sorry, there's my little rant on.
It does matter.
I mean, it doesn't matter at acertain point, at a certain level,
it doesn't matter if you win orlose as long as you're developing.
Speaker 6 (55:26):
Mm-hmm.
Sid (55:27):
No one asked for that.
Sorry.
That's a good one though.
It's a good, yeah.
Uh, man.
And that's, that's my soccer deal isthat, man, it's so non-intuitive to play
with a ball at your feet instead of withyour hands that, uh, it takes a little
bit of extra time to get that going.
'cause it's not like a normal thing.
Unless you grow up in a soccer householdor unless you grow up in England or
(55:48):
Brazil or something like that, andthey're just playing all the time.
Keith (55:51):
So the next time you say back, yeah, back to it.
So the next time you say theword busy, I want your, I want
you to think about this episode.
Sid (55:58):
Yeah, I do too.
Another aspect.
You, you really drove and I wantedto make sure I made this point, but
you drove, you drove home to go ask.
I think that's, I think that's brilliant.
I think that's exactly what peopleshould do because they think that the,
that the leader should know and shouldjust be, read your mind and tell you.
(56:18):
That person just went ahead and quit.
And I would say, man, give them anopportunity and have some grace that
they got to that, that you know, theperson ahead of you may have a lot of
pressure on them and they just haven'tgiven that all that much thought.
And maybe you both learn something.
I promise, most of the time, I'd say95% of the time you're gonna build
some good relationships there andyou probably elevate your status
(56:42):
within the organization by askingfor some direction in that manner.
I think that's good.
Keith (56:49):
You know, another thing that I've noticed or that I've
realized as I've, I've gotten
better at business is a lot oftimes what my team members think is
success and what I have in my mindfor them as success is Oh yeah.
Two different things.
Sid (57:09):
Oh yeah, that's true.
Keith (57:11):
And so clear communication there.
Just like in your marriage
is critical.
Sid (57:20):
Yeah.
That's where I think theone-on-ones are important.
That's why I think a weeklyscorecard is, is, is super important.
And then a quarterly conversation,there's no, there's nothing falling
to the cracks with that process.
Keith (57:33):
I think you could implement that in all relationships would probably be
Sid (57:36):
good.
You probably could.
You're gonna have to hide it.
'cause if it was formattedand all that stuff.
Yeah.
My wife ain't getting, my wife would.
Yeah.
So y you know, I think, you know,regular date nights help with that.
Sure.
And that's like
Keith (57:51):
a, that's like a, a kinda one on one.
I
Sid (57:54):
I think it's, I think it's a one-on-one.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, my wife doesn't listen to this,so, so she won't know that that's
what I'm kind of treating it at as.
Mm-hmm.
Is that almost.
It's like a one-on-one, but I justdon't really care what we talk about.
I'm just letting her talk.
Mm-hmm.
And quality time is her love language.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm just making sure shegets what she needs, you know?
(58:16):
But then if I'm, if I'm good about itand, and for the most part I am is I,
if I can actively listen, you know,we talk about active listening enough
where, um, I can kind of get workin some of those things that, that
maybe we do need to discuss, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, without her feeling like it's somesort of business quarterly conversation.
(58:41):
Yeah.
You know?
Uh, and, and I'm not always good at that,but I'm, I'm, I'm pretty cognizant of it.
Regular date nights.
Uh, and if that's once a month, and man,lots of times it's just walking, you
know, we had a date night last night.
Keith (58:56):
Oh good.
Yeah.
But at our house, it was so nice.
We got two steaks.
Nobody was there.
No
Sid (59:01):
kids at home.
Keith (59:02):
Nice.
Turn the music on outside.
That's nice.
I grilled.
We just sat out there and talked.
It was super nice.
That's good.
And I did work in some stuff, like, just,
Sid (59:12):
just, yeah.
Without, without it being pressured.
Like a, like a, like a businessinterview or something.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, the other thing that I was gonnasay, uh, one was asked, but two,
what's your calendar look like?
What's your calendar look like?
I have found and hear me out people,the number one reason my leaders
(59:37):
that elevate from one position to thenext is their inability or lack of
discipline in controlling their calendar.
And what I say by controllingtheir calendar is this on a
weekly basis or daily basis.
Figuring out what are the 3, 4, 5 thingsthat need to get done this week for sure.
(01:00:00):
Or what are the one or two thingsthat need to get done today For sure.
And make damn surethey're on your calendar.
'cause for the most part, what getsscheduled on the calendar gets done.
And you could say, well, I put thingson the calendar and I don't get
those things done 'cause I get busy.
I don't know that, that, that's fine.
(01:00:21):
You just need to keep working at it.
Why is it, are you putting themin too late in the afternoon?
Do they need to go first thing inthe morning so you can eat that
frog first before the day gets busy?
Or is it because you put 'em atlunchtime and you, you know, you get
too, too hungry to, I mean, there'slots of things, but controlling the
calendar is one of the things that Ifound is that is the big differentiator
(01:00:45):
between someone that ends up becomingsuccessful and someone that just.
Frankly, they think that, uh, theexpectations are too high, but other
people are doing the job pretty well.
And it's just, that's theone differentiator is just
controlling the calendar.
And like you said, sayingno to certain things.
Not necessarily saying, no, but I'llget to that, but it won't be today.
(01:01:06):
It'll have to be later on this week.
Looks like I've got time Fridayat 8:00 AM will that work for you?
And that's clear communication, andthat takes some real maturity to
do that and some professionalism.
But frankly, that's what it takes toelevate in any sort of business or career.
Um, and that's really what ittakes to be truly effective
(01:01:27):
in whatever role you're in.
Keith (01:01:29):
In a recent episode, we talked about the tools that we're using.
That's really helping.
Oh yeah, we did for that.
Yeah, we did.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, if you need controlof your calendar motion,
I'm still a huge motion fan.
Yeah.
I
Sid (01:01:40):
motion may work for you.
I don't know anything about it, but.
Hell block scheduling on yourstupid Well, it blocks scheduling.
Yes.
On your stupid Apple calendar.
Yeah.
Or Google Calendar oroffice calendar, whatever.
Microsoft Office 365, whatever.
Uh, just thinking about it on Sunday andI'll be real, or early Monday morning,
Keith (01:02:02):
having designated personal meeting times has been, I used
to take meetings all day long.
Oh,
Sid (01:02:10):
that's an advanced level, yeah.
Of, of, of calendar management.
I do Out of the office meetings onFriday afternoons, that kind of stuff.
Keith (01:02:18):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
I do.
I do.
Yeah.
So I make my meeting timesnow anytime after one 30.
Sid (01:02:23):
Yeah.
Keith (01:02:23):
And so it's, I, I work all day long till one 30 and then I can have
a meeting, but I don't do meetingsanymore before I, I do it before nine 30.
I'll take a eight o'clockmeeting and then after one 30.
Sid (01:02:41):
Yeah.
Keith (01:02:41):
That's been big for me.
Sid (01:02:43):
I just think calendar management, man.
And there's, there'slots of layers to it, but
that's critical to beingproductive and not busy.
So if you're using the wordbusy, you need some adjustment.
Yeah.
If you're so busy, you feel like aboat up Halloween cat, you might want
(01:03:05):
to, uh, I got a friend that says that.
How you doing buddy?
Oh man.
I'm bowed up like a Halloween cat.
I'm like, golly.
Uh, yeah, if you're busy, you,you, you, I mean, just think, just,
just look at why are you so busy?
Is it good, busy?
I'm busy right now andit, and I think it's good.
Busy.
Yeah, I'm busy right now.
Uh, but it's a season of the season orit's a season of life and I know what
(01:03:30):
it is and I know what I'm working for.
Uh, but I'm, I'm notalways gonna be there too.
So.
I think that was a good one, man.
I think we, uh, I think we hiton all the topics we did, and
I hope this is helpful to you.
Sorry, we, uh, we got off topic.
We talked about soccer, talkedabout my resentment towards, uh,
(01:03:50):
integrators, uh, and implementers.
And then we talked about, we talked aboutKeith finally getting a car for his wife.
Uh, all kinds of other things.
But the main thing we, we, we wanted totalk about was the difference between
being busy and productive and how do youstay focused in, uh, you know, this modern
world that's gonna throw a lot at you.
(01:04:12):
Lots of distractions out there.
I think that's all I got.
Keith (01:04:17):
That's good.
All right.
I like that you did mention a term.
I, I think we can use that.
Good.
Busy.
It's good busy.
It's good.
Busy.
So if you wanna use the term, makesure it's good, busy, good busy.
Sid (01:04:29):
And it's just seasons, man.
There's, everything comesin waves, everything.
Seasons.
It's, that's a whole
Keith (01:04:34):
nother podcast.
We probably need to save that.
Oh my.
Yeah, that's some good stuff.
Sid (01:04:39):
Jotting it down now.
Thanks you guys for listening.
Thanks for, uh, thanks to our sponsors.
Please give them some support becausethey make this thing possible.
It's still free, it'snot behind a paywall.
We don't have some sort of,uh, what do they call those?
Patreon, Patreon or Substack?
Uh, we don't, it's justwe're giving it to you free.
(01:05:00):
And, uh, you know, hopefully you, uh,you, if you got anything out of this
or any of the other ones, you'll like,you'll subscribe and, and the main thing
I'd like is you to send it to someonethat you think it might be helpful for.
Send it out.
Alright.
Alright.
That's all I got.
Gotta get going.
See ya East.
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