March 19, 2025 • 59 mins
How can small business leaders design incentive programs that boost team engagement without breaking the bank? In this episode of the Overlap Podcast, hosts Sid and Keith unpack the art and science of creating effective incentive programs for small businesses. Drawing from real-world experiences—like ski trips with peer groups and biotech events—they explore how to align team goals with business success. From cash bonuses to non-monetary rewards like gift cards, they reveal practical strategies to motivate employees while keeping systems simple and sustainable. Whether you’re a startup founder or a seasoned manager, this episode offers actionable insights to elevate your leadership game.
What You Will Learn
- The foundational reasons to introduce incentives and how they unify teams.
- The right timing to roll out an incentive program for maximum impact.
- Practical steps to design win-win incentives that avoid common pitfalls.
- How small gestures—like a $10 bill or a Chick-fil-A card—can transform workplace culture.
Key Topics Discussed
- The “Why” Behind Incentives: Discover what drives the need for incentives and how they bridge the gap between leadership vision and team effort.
- Timing Is Everything: When should you launch an incentive plan, and what systems need to be in place first?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sid (00:00):
Me as the leader, I've gotta identify what are the areas that are
(00:04):
gonna make the biggest differences, andhow do I keep people focused on that?
Then also, how do I line them upwith what's in it for them, the
company, and all of our futures.
Welcome everyone to another episode ofthe Overlap podcast where we dive into
(00:24):
the intersections of work, fitness,family, faith, parenting, and leadership.
And here we believe that growthin one area of your life fuels
growth in all areas of your life.
And that's why we're committed totaking the lessons we've learned
from business, breaking them downinto simple, actionable insights and
empowering small business leaders And.
You know, everyone else to thrive.
(00:46):
Um, that's really our mission here.
So, uh, we appreciate you guyslistening and, uh, thanks for tuning
in today or tonight or whatever thetime is, whenever you are listening.
And, uh, here we go.
How you been, Keith?
Very good.
How are you man?
I'm doing great.
Been, uh, been super busy lately.
I know you have too.
So, uh, before I get into me,what, what have you been up to?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh man, we've been, um, I. I'm doing a lot with family
and, uh, hatch had a big event,event last night with, uh, yeah.
Let, let's start with family.
Hold on.
Let's
Sid (01:21):
go back to family.
Yeah.
What, what, what are you doing there?
Parents?
Oh, yes.
So you've had a lot going on.
I had lot going
Speaker 2 (01:28):
on with parents and I was telling someone just
last week I was, I was like.
You know, and I you'vebeen through this as well.
Yeah.
Uh, parents aging is a hard thing.
Sid (01:41):
Yeah, man.
And then, uh, I sort of always remembermy dad at like 45 to 50 and, uh, yeah.
It just, yeah, it didn't stay that way.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's part of life, isn't it?
It is.
It's, and so, uh, so you've, but you'vebeen able to be there for him, been
able to be there, um, did get to.
We traveled a bit.
Yep.
And so that was cool, gettingto get out and ski and then, uh,
last week got back and back at it.
Sid (02:12):
Yeah.
So you said, you were saying before I cutyou off that hatch had, uh, a big event.
Tell, tell me about that.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (02:18):
we did.
Um, we did a biotech event, whichsounds way smart for me to be involved.
It does, admittedly.
Uh, I was sitting in a room lastnight with scientists and doctors and.
Academia thinking, why am I here?
Sid (02:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But, um, really great event.
Bringing the biotech and, andmarine sciences and ag sciences and
all of those folks together, uh,under one roof was kind of cool.
We led a panel and tryingto see how we facilitate
(02:53):
a program that benefits them so.
Okay.
That's kind of cool.
So benefits the scientists does.
Yeah.
Okay.
Or, or involves them in creating technotechnology out of Ballwin County.
So, you know, that's apretty cool thing too.
Cool, cool.
And then, uh, about to launch abook with the publishing company
(03:15):
and so all that good stuff, man.
Spring has sprung it.
Spring has sprung.
Yeah.
And, um, so just been,and I hate the term busy.
Yeah.
Because busy a lot oftimes means not effective.
Oh,
Sid (03:31):
okay.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And so I, that's what I'm trying to get better at is, is this
effective, busy or is it just being busy?
Okay.
Because I think we've talkedabout this before, we have
really easy to just be busy.
Sid (03:46):
Mm-hmm.
And not productive.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Right.
Sid (03:48):
Yeah.
How about you?
So, uh, yeah, we, we,we had some time off.
Keith and I, uh, went with, um, threeother guys that were, that were in a
peer group of mine for over 17 years.
Um, we went skiing and, and,and caught up with them.
Keith got to, uh.
(04:08):
Kind of, kind of meet those guysthat, that really I grew up with
in business and learned a lot from.
And, uh, and we, we did some skiing.
The weather was okay.
Uh, snow was just okay.
But the company was pretty great.
Um, and we got to spend some time there.
And then Saturday, everyoneleft and I picked up the,
uh, picked up wife and kids.
(04:30):
On, uh, after spending about threehours at a, uh, Gold's Gym in Montrose,
Colorado, it was a strange experience.
I love the pictures from the Gold Gym.
I was there just going, what is going on?
Did you flex in the mirror?
I did not.
And I didn't grunt or anything.
You didn't, because I don'tknow that that's allowed.
Maybe that's only Planet Fitness, but itwas, it was just a different experience.
(04:52):
I don't know that I've ever beento one of those kind of gyms.
You know what really?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It didn't take me by surprise, but this is kind
of a plug for a peer group.
But seeing you guys and how yourbusinesses have grown over the
years and how the relationship hasformed between you, between all
of you was really great to see.
Yeah, and it's a plug forjust being in community.
Sid (05:16):
Being in community is for sure.
And, and, and, and within thatcommunity there's, you know, cliques
is probably, uh, one word for it, but.
But just cohorts is probably abetter word, where we were all
about the same age and all of ourbusinesses were about the same age.
(05:37):
And so we really justkind of grew up together.
Um, uh, and that guy Clint, who's beenon the podcast, Clint Allison, him and
I started the same, uh, the same year.
Uh, and those other two guysstarted just two years before us.
So, um.
It was great and, and we really didspend a lot of time together seeing
each other's businesses quite a fewtimes and uh, and talked to each
(06:00):
other a lot over the last 20 years.
And
Speaker 2 (06:03):
the topic that we're talking about today, actually, y'all talked
about quite a bit, is how to incentivize
Sid (06:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah.
How, how do you incentivize team members?
Right.
And what is fair and what's not,and what's expected, and what's
mandatory and what's extra.
Sid (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know?
Sid (06:21):
Yeah.
And, uh, the, the nice thing abouta, uh, a peer group or a, you know,
community in general is that youreally don't have to go at it alone.
You've got someone that you can, um.
Especially once you've developed somegood relationships over the period of
years, you've got some people that youcan talk to that know your business,
(06:42):
know your people, know your tendencies,strengths and weaknesses, and they can
give you some real good advice and,and, and, and it takes time to get that.
Uh, so
Speaker 2 (06:53):
yeah, and I really enjoyed it also because it was an immense
amount of knowledge about bourbon.
It does guys really know a lot.
Yeah.
So they're really into it.
And so we had a good
Sid (07:03):
time, uh, testing that out.
Yeah.
They did not like Keith Mescalbecause it's, I didn't know
this, but mescal is smokey.
Not all, all
Speaker 2 (07:11):
mescal, but the mescal that I like it is Okay.
I like a pd, like if I'm gonnadrink a scotch, I like a PD scotch.
Sid (07:18):
If
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I
Sid (07:19):
don't even know what
Speaker 2 (07:19):
PD means mean.
Burnt, burnt, uh, or smokey flavor.
The barrels are burnt.
The smokey, the smokeyflavor on the inside the
Sid (07:27):
barrel is burnt.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well in, in mezcal, in, in the difference between
mezcal and tequila is tequila.
The agave is steamed.
Mm-hmm.
And mescal, the agave isroasted under the ground.
Oh.
And so they build a fire underthe ground, Uhhuh put the agave
in, and then extract that.
Sid (07:49):
How do they get out from there?
How do they get the alcoholout of it or the liquid?
The sugars?
Uh, I'm not real sure aboutthat, but I steam Makes sense.
But that's a different, yeah.
So, huh, well, there was all kindsof talk like that in the, uh.
The, uh, in our, uh, our little meetup
Speaker 2 (08:07):
and, uh, well, and I think that's important too about a peer group
is like, not, not, not only did you,do, you only talk about business and
what your business is doing, but youlike delve in personal too, so Yeah.
We know each other's kids, man.
Sid (08:20):
Yeah.
Our kids know each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is, that's super cool.
My kids love Clint.
They hated, they missed him.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Well, who wouldn't love?
I know.
He's freaking hilarious.
He's hilarious.
He's
Sid (08:30):
hilarious.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Um, I meant the dude, the dude wore blue jeans under his ski pants.
I know.
So he could just.
He just wore his Tennessee hat.
That's right.
Skiing and no
Sid (08:40):
goggles.
Oh no.
He wore a Flora Bama hat.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Not a, not a goggle.
Not a goggle.
Yeah.
Just as coast of Del Mars.
Sid (08:47):
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was
Speaker 2 (08:49):
awesome.
Sid (08:50):
Yeah.
So, uh, like Keith said, we'retalking today, uh, about when, I
mean really why then, when, and howto implement an incentive program.
Um, this is an area.
Or a topic that gets, I think most peoplethink they, they know the answer to.
(09:11):
It's almost like communication.
Everyone goes, oh yeah, incentive.
Yeah, just incentivize 'em.
And it sounds smart and it sounds, um,like the right thing to do, but isn't
and when is very important in my opinion.
And then, um, you know, why and how.
(09:34):
Those questions are just so more, somuch more important than people just
realize and, and I think most peoplehave a flippant kind of attitude
towards developing an incentiveprogram until you actually sit
down and try to come up with one.
I.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah.
Sid (09:53):
So, um,
Speaker 2 (09:55):
let me ask you a question.
Okay.
Because I think we need to clarifythis before we move into incentive
plans, what they do and howthey do it and all that stuff.
When in your company did you decide,
and it can be like a team member number orthat you need to incorporate incentives.
Sid (10:19):
Okay.
Um.
You know, when we were talking aboutthat peer group, um, after I had gotten
in for a couple of years, uh, I hadstarted to iron out some processes.
You know, and then some waysthis is the way we do things.
Uh, for the first couple of years itwas just me doing it and sort of, you
(10:43):
know, coming out of school you've gotan idea of how you're gonna do things.
And I had some other experiences like,uh, you know, being in the Coast Guard
and I had some, some ideas about that.
And I had worked for other landscape.
Companies, and I hadsome ideas about that.
And, you know, uh, anyone that's everstarted a business thinks they're gonna
do it their way and, and maybe usesome of the things that, you know, but
I was still experimenting, you know,and, and I didn't really have any.
(11:07):
I certainly didn't have any writtenprocesses, but really didn't even
have like some standard processes.
Uh, so after a couple of years we starteddeveloping some pretty standard processes.
This is how we do things.
Um, for instance, we, we were really, um,focused for a couple years and dialed it
(11:27):
in that, you know, man hours on each job.
And so that was the first incentiveprogram I ever came up with was like,
Hey, we sell a job, you're on that job.
If we meet these, um, these hours,you know, if we hit, you know, if
it's a hundred hour job and we getit done in a hundred hours, I'll
(11:48):
give you something, like a dollarfor each one of the hours, you know?
And if we go under, great, butif we go over, you don't, we
don't get anything, you know?
Um.
And so when, and I mean, sorry.
Why?
Let's start with why,why would you do that?
(12:10):
Why would, why do wewant an incentive plan?
I think that's a good questionand for me, and, and I want the
listener to hear me out on this.
If we're, if you are a businessleader, if you're an owner, you're
the CEO, you're whatever president,you're just the startup founder.
(12:30):
Doesn't matter if you're inviting peopleto come on the team, what you have to do.
My goal is, is I've gotta go out front andsee what is possible and then have an idea
of what margin can be created and then.
Use that margin to share it with thepeople that are gonna help me get there.
(12:53):
Does that make sense?
It does.
So that's a broad statement to justsay, I know at that point in time,
when you ask me, I know that if Ican hit the hours on every one of
these, then we're gonna create.
Way more margin, more money.
We're gonna make this amount ofmoney and every time we go over,
we lose some of that margin.
(13:13):
So if I can incentivize and, andwe were, I was, we, like I said, I
had a couple of years of trying itout and I could see we were missing
the mark about 25% of the time.
I'll say at least half of that.
So 12.5% was my estimating process.
But the other part was I left the, youknow, I left the job unattended to go.
(13:34):
Uh, you know, do another estimate ordo some invoicing or see a customer
about something else, whatever.
Right?
And you'd be gone half the day or theday and just wor work didn't get done.
You know, even if you had a righthand guy or girl or whatever.
And so, not
back to the leadership part.
(13:56):
What I have to remind myself, I have toremind myself all the time still is that.
I can get people fired up about things,you know, the team and all of that stuff,
but ultimately to get 'em fired up and,and, and have it be sustainable, they
need to understand what's in it for them.
So an incentive program reallystarts to put that, um, that talk
(14:20):
or that my money where my mouth is.
And so I was like, Hey,we gotta hit these hours.
We gotta hit these hours.
Oh, by the way, I've created thisplan and if we hit these hours, you
know, you get a dollar for everyone of the hours that, that, that.
That, that's on the job.
Um, and, and it was just pretty simplemath and, and, uh, and it, and it worked.
(14:41):
And what it did was it got everyonerowing in the same direction.
I. It got everyone focused onthis is the most important thing.
Well, in at that time.
Um, it got everyone focused on production.
It got everyone focused on,you know, managing their time.
It got everyone focused on, Hey, wewant to go ahead and spend an extra
hour or two hours to get that job done.
(15:03):
We might work a little late until sixo'clock so we don't have to spend the
extra hours of cleaning up the job site,loading up, driving back to the shop.
Uh, doing whatever you gotta do there.
Clocking out, coming in the nextmorning, clocking in, loading up
in the truck, driving to the jobset site, finishing that up, and
then finally getting off the job.
(15:24):
Now you're five hours over and you lose.
So why is at the basic foundational levelis to get everyone focused on what's
most important and leadership is really.
Getting everyone focused on thedifferences that make the difference.
(15:48):
That's what leadership is.
You gotta have, that's why we saynumbers are the language of business.
And if you're gonna run a business, owna business or anything else, you need to
know what that is so you can understand.
I. All the things, right?
You don't understand, understand'em all, but you need to understand
it's well enough to know theseare the most important things.
(16:08):
Now I can focus these guys on this,and that's gonna be different for each
department group or achievable goals.
Clear, pretty much achievable goals,
Speaker 2 (16:15):
and that helps you formulate that incentive formulation of that.
Exactly.
Right.
Sid (16:20):
Yeah.
Does that answer your question?
It does.
Yes.
That was very long-winded.
I'm sorry.
'cause
Speaker 2 (16:24):
a lot of people say, uh, the incentive is they get to work here.
Mm-hmm.
Well, well I, but I think to That's at a
Sid (16:30):
very low level.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
But I think to create, tocreate, you know, excitement
around them coming to work.
Sid (16:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
And giving the, giving your team members a sense of ownership.
You've gotta bring them in the process.
Yeah.
And a lot of times.
I have failed to, to bring theteam members into the process and
say, this is where we're going.
I'm just like, go do, do that.
Sid (16:57):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You know, here's the task, go do it.
But.
Giving them some ownership,I think is important.
Sid (17:05):
100%.
And the way I like to think about it is,is I, I think most people listening to
the podcast, um, and, and most peopleI ever talk to about this have, have
had some experience with team sports.
And the leader, the CEO, the president,the manager, whatever is you, you, you
gotta think of yourself as the head coach.
(17:27):
And if I just bark at my playersto, you know, block right?
Without explaining the why, and thenincentivizing the good behavior.
I'm not, it's not very sustainablefor them to do what I need them
to do over a period of time.
Um, it's sort of like your kids, right?
(17:47):
There's some overlaps there.
If all I do is complain to them, I.
About not making the bed.
They're never gonna want to do it.
It not that they're evergonna want to, right?
But there'll be that, that, thatwill sort of diminish a little bit.
If you kind of explain the why you, you goahead and you put your arm around 'em, you
help 'em, and, and you build a little bitof a relationship with them, that's way
(18:11):
more sustainable than just barking at 'em.
And so.
I think that incentive plan or incentivesin general are just a tool for me to
bridge the gap and build a relationshipand then also put my money where my mouth
is and show them what's in it for them.
Uh, is there an acronymlike W Em or something?
(18:32):
What's in it for me?
There's something like that.
Josh De Plan says that all the time.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, that may be text lingo 'cause my kids will send me
like letters on a text and I don'tknow what that means a lot either.
I'm like, what does this mean?
Yeah.
But, so there was a study, HarvardBusiness Review did, and they fell, and
this is like in highlights, well-designedincentive plans, increased employee
(18:59):
motivation and productivity by 20 to 30%.
Sid (19:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But well-designed is the key there.
Sid (19:05):
Yeah.
Well designed is, is the key.
And, and we're gonna getinto that a lot today.
Um.
I'll also say as we, as rightas we're getting started, it's
not always money, you know?
Yeah.
Sometimes it's just recognition.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, I think you, I saw a study that Gen Z is more, um, like.
Pat on the back base.
Yeah.
If you can give, if you can give aGen ZA pat on the back, it's what
it, it's even greater than monetary.
Sid (19:37):
Yeah.
Their love language is wordsof affirmation, I'm sure.
Yeah.
They gotta
Speaker 2 (19:39):
feel like they're making a difference.
Sid (19:41):
Right?
Yeah.
And, um, I think, I think a, agood incentive program is holistic
and sort of covers a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
This surprised me also when I saw this, this stat.
Gallup did a poll and in 2023 and 23%of employees feel engaged at work.
Sid (20:02):
Oof.
That's scary.
Well,
that's, uh, that could be agood thing or a bad thing if
you're competing in the market.
That's a good thing, right?
Because you can, you can be that.
You could be that 20, 26%, youknow, you could serve that.
You could be that person that'sserving those, you know, those people.
(20:23):
And then the talent from the otherplaces that are not serving them will
eventually make their way to your shop.
Every obstacle's an opportunity, right?
Um, so when.
To implement, uh, an incentive program.
And I alluded to that with my firstexample is, is when you've got some
(20:46):
systems in place, like this is how you'vedone, this is how we're going to do it.
Um, and you've done the math on makingsure that, one, you're not giving away the
farm, but two, that uh, that it's enough.
A difference to make the differenceif you give everyone a dollar in 19.
(21:12):
35 maybe that works, but in 2025,a dollar doesn't move the needle.
Not doing a hundred dollars isokay, but you know, if it's once
a month, a hundred dollars a monthisn't, isn't a big enough hit.
And maybe you're not at that point whereyou can do a thousand dollars a month.
Hell, I don't know that I ameither, but especially with all
(21:33):
the people, but the key people,if you can get it to, you know.
A hundred dollars a week or somethinglike that and still only give out
about 10% of that margin, thenyou're winning, winning, winning.
Um, so when you implement a systemis almost, it is as important as why
(21:55):
the system is, is very important.
But here's the one key piece thatmost people don't consider who
is going to manage that process?
Because if you're going to implementan incentive program and you're the
person that has to sort of, you know,collect the data, crunch the data,
(22:17):
come up with the, uh, the end gameconsistently at the end of each month,
or the 15th and the 30th, whatever the,the system is, if you're that person
and you don't have the capacity to doso, then you're gonna drop the ball.
And let me tell you whatyou never want to do.
You wanna lose some trust real quick,start messing up on an incentive program.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Oh, definitely.
Sid (22:37):
So people will just say you're a big fat liar.
'cause they think that anyways.
Or don't come through withwhat's promised or don't come
through with what's promised.
Yeah.
'cause you didn't do the math right.
And hey, we did.
Or you didn't explain it right.
Like, Hey, we don't pay this outuntil we get paid from the customer.
Well, that's not fair.
I'm like, I don't knowwhy that would be unfair.
I don't have the moneyuntil those people pay us.
(22:59):
Uh, so you gotta come up with a system.
You've gotta be at a certainscale that you probably have some
help, help coming, you know, to,like, maybe you got a bookkeeper,
maybe you got an office manager.
Maybe you've got someone that can help.
Or maybe not.
Maybe you're the person, uh, that'simplementing it and you're not, you
(23:20):
know, a hundred percent in sales or,or something that's gonna drag you away
from it and keep your eye off the ball.
Uh, if you can do it, that's great.
My hat's off to you, butmost of the time I've.
I have needed to delegate that to someonethat's going to consistently do it.
That's when it really works.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
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(24:01):
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Sid (24:22):
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(24:46):
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Check out tree business.comor hit the link on the overlap
homepage to learn more.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Do you find that individual incentives work or team base?
Sid (25:05):
I like a little bit of both.
I like a little bit of both.
We have an entire teambase incentive program.
We call it a, a self-funded incentiveplan, and we have a certain, uh,
dollar amount in our budget everyyear, and it's, and it's pretty large.
And if we hit the quarterly goal.
For the first quarter, we pay out 10%of that budgeted amount, and it goes
(25:29):
to everyone on the team from, uh, theguy on the front lines swinging a weed
eater to the guy managing, managingdirector of operations, and they're
all gonna get the exact same amount.
Um, and the first quarter it'sa low amount, but we haven't
collected a bunch of money yet.
So it's 10% of what, let's sayit's a hundred thousand dollars.
So there's $10,000 to sharebetween, let's say 40 people.
(25:52):
And, and you've gotta qualify for it.
So you have to be therepast your first 90 days.
This is just an idea of an incentive plan.
Um, so you have to be there for thefirst, no, you, you've had to have worked
your full 90 days past your probationaryperiod and worked that whole quarter as
a full fledged, you know, team member.
Uh, you can give some peoplesome exemptions on that.
(26:14):
I don't do it very often, but there mightbe a guy we hire in as like a, as a, uh,
an account manager and he is got a lotof experience and we're whatever, you
know, we're just getting 'em on there.
But usually there's notany, uh, ex exemptions.
So they've worked that full quarter.
There you go.
And it limits your number.
You know, those people that turn over,they just never get in that pool.
(26:35):
Um, you can miss that first quarter.
Let's say that, say you'vegotta have a 10% net profit.
Because we've done themath, we're typically at 8%.
If we can get another 2%, 2% on thenet profit of there pays everybody,
you know, it pays for it all.
And then some, right?
And then some is the most important part.
Like you can't give away the whole farm.
'cause if you're owning, you're carryingthe risk and you don't know what's
(26:59):
coming around the corner the next month.
So you gotta keep socking away.
Then the second quarter,um, you hit that target.
Let's say it's 10%, whatever.
Um.
At that quarter and you, youdidn't hit it in the first quarter.
You can, you can, you'llpay out 30% that point.
'cause it's 10 plus 20.
Or they, you hit the first quarter.
You only hit the you and thenyou pay out the second quarter.
(27:21):
That's 20% of that a hundred thousand.
Right.
Third quarter would be 30% four.
Fourth quarter would be 40%.
You add it all up,that's a hundred percent.
It's crazy.
Right.
Yeah, but let's say you missfirst, second, third quarter, you
can still keep people engaged.
And as a coach I can still say,look guys, we can still win this.
(27:41):
It's my job to do the plan.
How are we gonna win this?
But we can still win this with a HailMary at the end of the fourth quarter.
We can get a hundred percent payouton this thing with all of you that
have stuck out the whole, thatstuck around the whole year and.
You can get some people firedup about that, but you can also
keep 'em fired up, hitting the,the quarters one after another.
(28:03):
And it's at a frequency, and it'sgenerally since it, since it's, uh,
economical and, and, and, um, equitableif you will, everyone's got the same
amount people can get behind it.
But those folks that aredriving each department.
You can come up with adifferent program for them.
Maybe it's every quarter, maybe it'severy month, maybe it's twice a year.
(28:25):
It, it kind of depends on your cycle.
And every business has a cycle.
Uh, quarters work pretty wellfor us, but maybe they don't
work for some other places.
Um, we've got some highs and lows too.
And uh, you just gotta giveit some thought, but when.
Back to that question, when is whenyou've got some good systems in place,
(28:47):
you've got some record, some trackrecords, you know what success looks
like, and you probably have someone.
To help you implement or, uh, keep trackof this, keeping track of it is so hard.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I think a good place to start though.
Um, and I've done thisis a non-cash incentive.
Sid (29:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah.
I love it.
And, and so like travel or mm-hmm.
Give them a night at a hotel.
Yeah.
Or, you know, get thema, uh, Chick-fil-A card.
Sid (29:19):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know, if you do well on a project and can, can afford it.
Start the incentives there.
Yeah.
And then you'll see, because I, Iused to do gift cards a lot and Yeah.
I saw like they would look forward to it,
Sid (29:34):
man.
So you're hitting on one of the thingswhere I was gonna actually circle
back around and say, not everythinghas to be some well thought out plan.
If all you're trying to do iscatch people doing something right.
Right.
That's a different deal.
And, and maybe you cancall it incentive plan.
All you're really doing is you mighthave $200 of, of, of $20 Chick-fil-A gift
(29:59):
cards, you know, and all you're doingis passing those out when you see, uh,
Jimmy did a great job with this customerand the customer called in and said, man.
I just wanted to let youknow Jimmy's great you go.
I really appreciate that.
You know what I'm gonna do?
We're gonna tip him for you.
We've got a 20, we've got $20 giftcards that we give out, and uh, we'll
(30:20):
make sure we give him one of those.
And thank you so much for giving usa call and giving us that feedback.
You know what you've done, you've madethat customer, I. Uh, know that your,
that their feedback is appreciated.
You, you let that customer know that youappreciate the team member and you've
got a little thing that you're gonnado for 'em and they feel good about it.
And then you go give Jimmythe, uh, the gift card.
(30:41):
You say, man, Ms. Morgan saidthat you did a fantastic job.
I just wanna say thanks.
Take this, do whatever you want.
Um, $20 cash is pretty good, uh,but whatever you want to do, but it.
The idea behind that is that it's, um,it's not, uh, systemic or system based.
(31:04):
It's more of when I see it, I say it.
Does that make sense?
And I think it keeps people fromgetting entitled and it makes
it seem a little more genuine.
And if you, and if you spread itaround and, and you're really,
uh, you know, thoughtful aboutit, you're going to keep people.
(31:24):
You know, focused on doing a goodjob and you're probably building
a lot of bridges and building alot of relationships that way.
It's infrequent, it's nice.
It doesn't have to be full systemic.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's really hard.
Early on.
Mm-hmm.
To be, to, to have an incentive plan.
It really is that that is dedicated,that we're gonna do this every time.
Sid (31:50):
And if you just took out a hundred dollars and you had it
in a cat, like in your, yeah.
Console of your truck or something, andit's all in tens or something, and you
give someone a $10 bill, you know, youjust go, Hey, I just wanna let you know
you're doing a great job this week.
Appreciate it, man, thatgoes such a long way.
And $10 is almost nothing to 'em.
(32:13):
But they appreciate just thethought, the good people, the right
people appreciate the thought.
And if they don't, maybe they'renot the right person on the team.
That's, I just gave them a Yeti cup.
Did you?
Yeah, I got one too.
Oh,
Speaker 2 (32:29):
sweet.
I love the small Yetis.
Yeah, it's the perfect size.
Uh, bourbon goes in there.
Did Stephanie
Sid (32:35):
tell you that?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah.
She like,
Sid (32:40):
even Tim's laughing at that one.
Yeah.
He, I mean these are micro Yetis.
Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
You know, we're on a budget.
Sid (32:48):
On a budget.
Yeah.
It's genetic.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Um, no, no.
Everybody gives a big Yeti out.
Yeah.
But Tim Ounce, the 10 ounce don't happen.
And so I gave those.
Sid (32:58):
Yeah, they're pretty great actually.
I do like 'em.
Hmm.
Yeah,
I was gonna say coffee is probablythe appropriate drink for there, Tim.
(33:20):
Tim's really into the wine right now.
Cheese, he is the wine and, uh, yeah,but I mean, I, and like the, uh,
the club soda and gin or something.
And
Speaker 2 (33:28):
don't worry, Tim, I have gone directly from Coffee
to Bourbon in the same cup.
Oh yeah.
It's not, it's not a bad problem at all.
Sid (33:34):
Tim.
I also learned in our trip that usingthe same ice cube for the second glass of
bourbon is very, uh, is a very good call.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Dirty ice.
Dirty ice.
That's what they were all saying.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Uh, where were we?
We were talk, we were talking about thatincentive plans doesn't have to be set.
Yeah.
That we could, we could start outwith, you can totally start out with
catching people doing something right?
Yeah.
Catching people doing something right.
Sid (34:05):
Man, that's such a lost leadership art of just saying thank you.
I've noticed.
Hey, you've done a really good job.
I wanted you to know ithasn't gone unnoticed.
Here's, here's, you know, here's 20 bucks.
Whatever.
Uh, I really appreciate it.
I know it's not, I know it's not alot, but it's, but it's just a little
bit of a gratitude, you know, a littlebit of a token of my gratitude and I
(34:26):
want you to know that I appreciate you.
What I mean, that's, thatgoes, it goes so far.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
The IRF, I don't know what that is, but Return, return on, no, the.
So the IRF is a,
Sid (34:44):
oh no, I thought it was RIF.
Sorry,
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I'm dyslexic.
Oh, the Incentive Research Foundation.
Oh.
Found that non-cash incentiveprograms, if you start, it can
increase employee engagement by 31%.
So.
That's the problem.
I mean, or that's, that's the wholegoal, I think, with your team members,
(35:10):
is to keep them engaged in the process.
Yeah.
Sid (35:14):
Mm-hmm.
And really, I think you've gottaconstantly break down the wall of
the idea that society puts out there.
Modern culture puts out there that it'sthe worker versus management, you know?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Right.
Sid (35:30):
Um, and it's not, it's not their fault that they think that way.
It just, that's just whatthe deal is, you know?
But if you can keep breaking thatthing down by bridging gaps and having
incentives and catching people doingsomething right and genuinely caring,
then um, that starts to melt away.
(35:52):
And people, you, you build upa lot of leadership capital and
you can get a lot of stuff done.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And I, I, I also think just some kind of
notice that you care.
Yeah.
Helps retention a ton.
Like just a ton.
Someone understanding, Hey,this guy cares about me.
Yeah.
This company cares about me
Sid (36:15):
100%.
And it doesn't take much.
And that goes, even if it's someonethat, that needs to leave or is going
to leave your organization, if you treatthem with respect and you don't take it
all personal, this person's leaving andyou treat 'em with respect and think
about it that like, Hey, this persondid a great job while they were here.
(36:37):
Um, when they started, we were here, andnow that they're leaving, we're here.
We, when he started, we were there.
When he is leaving, we are here.
And, uh, it was a big, he was,this person was a big part of that.
And man, it's funny, just treatingpeople right is the right thing
to do in a number of differentways, but it should also lead back.
(37:00):
You having a good pu uh, uh,uh, reputation as an employer.
And that's kind of whatwe're all trying to do.
Here's my take on, on, uh, being anemployer, especially in the service
industry or no matter what your,um, no matter what your business is
in whatever industry that is, we'reall, there's only a finite number
(37:22):
of people out there to do the job.
And so to a certain degree,we're all playing, we're all,
you know, SEC football coaches.
And we're all recruitingout of the same talent pool.
I'll be Nick Saban.
You do.
Look, you would win.
You would, you would win because thatguy's the goat dude and he really, he's
(37:44):
one of the most impressive humans ever.
But back to this, um, I. We're all SECfootball coaches, and whoever recruits
the best talent for the most part, wins.
Now you've gotta be able to develop thattalent and get them all, um, singing outta
the same songbook and rowing in the samedirection, uh, but getting the the right.
(38:07):
Horses on the team, or butts onthe bus is, is the first step.
And then getting them all to buyinto the process is the second step.
Getting them all to executewhen it counts is the third.
So, you know, you, you gottathink of it that way and just
start at first principles.
And first principles is, I need talent.
And so how am I gonna do that?
(38:27):
Well, it's e everything.
It's everything.
It's, does your place look good?
Do you, uh, you know, doyou have decent equipment?
Are you treating people right?
You know, do you have a well-writtenad? All that stuff in the interview
process, are you asking good questionsor are you being a jerk about it?
Like, oh, you're gonna haveto earn it to work here.
(38:47):
You know, that kind of stuff.
And it's just an attitude.
And then onboarding, do you have a waythat you're actually helping them onboard
so they feel like you've, you've givenit some thought, you know, um, you've
actually thought about the first time youtook a new job and thought, Ooh, there's.
Yeah, it's pretty nerve wracking.
You're a little bit, you gotsome anxiety going on there.
Do you ease that?
Do you get 'em engaged early?
(39:09):
Do you set 'em up with a mentor, uh,someone to walk 'em through the process?
Do you, do you spend enough time withthem in the first, you know, 90 days
you as the president, are you checkingin on 'em every couple of weeks and
making sure everything's going okay?
All of those things leaks out into therest of the talent pool and starts.
(39:30):
Those are, those are, uh, as ChrisBell would put it, those are boomerangs
you're putting out and they'reeventually gonna come back to you.
Then if you've got a good incentiveprogram, it keeps everyone engaged
and it makes the leadership wordsyou're putting out there not
ring so hollow and they actually.
(39:54):
Let them know that something's init for them, not just, you know,
they think it's lining our pockets.
You know, I literally think, uh, beforewe started discussing our p and l and
all of our other financial data with ourentire team, they probably thought I was
just taking wheelbarrow loads of cashhome, which is absolutely not the truth.
(40:16):
So, gives you an opportunityto, to explain all of that
too, and, and you really.
Attract, hire and retainthe best team members.
If, if, if you got a holistic approach.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think incentive planning.
I worked for a company one time, um,in the corporate space where, but
that was complicated where I was, um,
like salary plus.
Mm-hmm.
But I never knew.
What the Plus was.
Sid (40:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Like I never knew how to get to the plus.
Sid (40:53):
Yeah.
It's, it's crazy how theymake it all complicated.
So
Speaker 2 (40:55):
it wasn't clear.
It wasn't clear at all.
Sid (40:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And so it, it was very demotivating for me to ever try because I
was like, I, one month I'd hit it the nextmonth I didn't and I had the same sales.
So I don't know.
Yeah.
Like what breaks up.
So I think you have to be veryclear on what the incentive plan is.
Yeah.
What is the, what is the incentive?
(41:17):
And I think you have to make it available
to, for everyone
Sid (41:25):
to know.
Yeah.
A ninth grader shouldbe able to understand.
Right.
Your incentive for Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
If I do this and excel at this.
Yeah.
This happens.
Sid (41:34):
Yeah.
Keep it simple.
Yeah.
It, it, it's like any other,it's like any other leadership.
Thing.
You know, any directive,you gotta keep it simple.
And the, and the, the moresimple it is, the better it
Speaker 2 (41:50):
is.
Another thing I would do when I startedmy company is I would, I would speak in.
What ifs.
If we do this, then I'm gonna do this.
Oh.
And I think that's demotivating too.
When you are, when you start outearly with your team members.
Okay.
Is speaking in the Whatif we do well this month?
I'm gonna make sure you get it.
Oh, so you weren't reallydefine, it was fuzzy.
(42:11):
What well was, I think you, yeah,you gotta define what well is,
Sid (42:14):
yeah.
Yeah, dude.
Implementing an incentive program is,is definitely going to make you get
crystal clear with your language and,and the outcome you're shooting for.
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Definitely.
So,
Sid (42:26):
uh, if you've got a real salesperson, like a real one,
Speaker 2 (42:30):
yeah.
Sid (42:30):
Uh, they may not.
Ask for clarity on that, uh,on that incentive program and
what the defined outcome is.
But they're shooting for what theythink it is, and if you guys are not
aligned, you are going to get it, son.
They are going to be real aggressiveabout how you lied to them, you know?
(42:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
And if you're a team member listening to this episode.
Do not hesitate to ask for clarity.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Because one of the things that I would,I, I would do as a, as a leader is say,
oh, if we, if I'm gonna do this, whenwe hit this, well, I had a team member
(43:14):
one time say, what, what does that mean?
And it helped me.
It helped me clarify what I was promising.
Sid (43:21):
Yeah.
Um, I'll also say if you're a teammember, you're a business leader of a
department or just anything and you gotsomeone trying to implement an incentive
program and it's messy and it's not goingokay, let's have a little bit of grace.
'cause they're at leasttrying to do something they.
(43:43):
These things are tough, and everythingsounds like a good idea, even on
paper until it starts to get executedand you didn't think about what, you
didn't think about all of my bestideas or all of my biggest mistakes.
I'm sorry.
All of my biggest mistakesstarted out as fantastic ideas.
I never had a bad idea.
I. They just turned out to be wrong.
(44:05):
You know?
So have a little bit of grace becauseat least people are trying and I'm
saying that to you, the listener, touh, yeah, give yourself a little bit of
grace and maybe be a little bit, I. Morebrave and at least trying something.
And if you set your people up to say,Hey, I don't know that I've got this
fully, uh, a hundred percent dialedin, but I would like to try something.
(44:29):
'cause I wanna make sure that we're rowingin the right direction and I wanna make
sure that I'm putting my money where mymouth is, that uh, this is the difference
that's gonna make the difference.
And if we do these things,here's what I think I can do.
Let's try this for a littlewhile and see if it works.
That's a real good approach tostarting an incentive program.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah.
I think you have to look atthe sustainability of it.
Yeah.
Can you sustain it?
Can this be sustained and a try?
I I don't think there's anythingin the world wrong with a try.
Yeah.
Hey.
And, but be very clear about it.
Say, let's try this.
Sid (45:02):
Well help you when you hire people, you put 'em on
a 90 day probationary period.
Right.
I mean, at least we do.
I, I think that's stilla standard practice.
It is.
I haven't worked anywherein a long, in long time.
I think it's, yeah.
Uh.
So even then we're just going,Hey, we're just giving this a shot.
You know, if it doesn't workout, doesn't make you a bad
person, just makes you a bad fit.
Um, and so trying that out is good,but I, I think we're segueing into
(45:26):
how, how to implement a system,um, in, in my, in, in broad, in a
broad scope, it needs to be win-win.
It, it can't be all one sided for thebusiness owner or management, and it can't
be all one sided, uh, to the team member.
(45:48):
Um, so it needs to bebalanced in that way.
It needs to be balanced in a waythat it can't be manipulated either.
Let's do this, let's say that, um.
Let's say, let's say you'vegot sale a salesperson, right?
And you say, look, I'm going to giveyou, uh, 10% of every sale you make.
(46:14):
Well, let me tell youwhat you're gonna have.
If you've got a real, if you'vegot a real assassin out there.
A real sales badger, they're gonnasell everything and they won't
give a crap if it's good work.
Bad work in your area,not in your area, nothing.
Not because they're bad people,but they're just wired that way.
They see a goal, they'rejust going after it.
(46:36):
So they'll sell $2 million worthof shit you don't need, you know,
and you are on the hook to paythem whatever is that $20,000.
10.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
No, two.
2 million.
2 million.
That's two.
That's 200,000,
Sid (46:48):
200,000 bucks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a tough, that's a tough mistake.
If it's a bunch of, no, I'd neverdo 10%, but you get what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Unless they're all commissioned.
But yeah, we like
Speaker 2 (46:58):
easy math on this podcast.
Yeah.
10 percent's a good one,
Sid (47:01):
so, but either way.
So it needs to be balancedwhere it can't be manipulated.
So it's just clarifying your language.
We'll pay 10% on everything that'ssold, that is in our service area, that
meets our, uh, meets our whatever it is.
(47:22):
So we used to do hours, but hourscan get funky on that thing.
Uh, but just meet our gross profit margin.
So it's work that gets done now.
You're gonna get, oh, it's not my fault.
They didn't do that.
And I was like, well,it's not my fault either.
It's not my fault that either,you know, I didn't, I you, you
sold it was the job bid, right?
Oh, I promise it was bid.
(47:43):
Right.
Okay.
Well I didn't get, youknow, that kind of stuff.
You're still gonna have to deal with that,but you can work through it, but at least
it's balanced and at least, and, and yougotta, this is just a piece of advice.
You need to pay thecommission when you get paid.
And they go, well, Idon't wanna wait for it.
Well, what do you want me to do?
You want me to come outta my pocket?
I'm happy to do that.
(48:04):
But I thought we were a team here.
And so sometimes you gotta punch backor push back, I'm sorry, with, uh,
with, with aggressive salespeople.
And aggressive salespeople.
Do not put them down.
They're just wired that way.
And you need some badgers.
Definitely at least one.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yes,
Sid (48:21):
you, you need them.
You need them, and they're, and you can'tlike, get mad at 'em, uh, every once in
a while and then love 'em when they'rebringing, when they're making it rain.
So you just gotta understandthat's who they are.
And, and it's okay.
You need a hard charger.
You do need some hard chargers,and you may never have one of
those, and that's okay too.
But I'm just giving you some advicethat you better clean up your
(48:41):
language and make sure it's balancedand make sure you've explained it.
Three times, and I like to say, Hey,will you explain back to me what
you understand this thing to be?
In your own words.
That's a good one.
Would you mind explaining tome in your own words what you
see this incentive plan being?
(49:02):
Because then you get to hear what'srunning through their sales badger
head, which might still be, you'regonna pay me 10% on anything?
No, no, no.
For the fourth time, it's this.
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Speaker 2 (50:40):
Incentive plans also work to highlight a certain area
of product that you wanna grow.
Sid (50:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah.
So putting an incentive planon just a specific product
that you sell is fine too.
Sid (50:51):
Yeah.
I love an area that you're tryingto grow, putting everyone on it.
Just paying a, you know, a feeto everyone for that on top of
whatever thing you've got going on.
Right.
When it's, so, even more than sales,let's say you've got a, um, a department
manager and tires are a big issue.
(51:14):
You look, you, you know, in youranalysis from last year, you spent.
A hundred thousand dollars on, ontires, that would be a lot of money.
But if we can get that down to50,000 by implementing some, you
know, we're gonna put in this, uh,this liquid tube inside of every.
(51:36):
Uh, every tire, it'sgonna be, you know, $800.
You're gonna put it in twice a year,and then you're gonna have someone
go through with a metal detectorthrough the yard once a once a week
to get up any screws or nails, andnow you're only spending 40,000.
You know, you spent.
You know, $1,600 on the, the liquidtube, and then one guy a week for an
(52:02):
hour is gonna go through and do that.
There's another $1,600 and you spent$1,600 on a, uh, metal detector, and
you dropped your, uh, your tire expensefrom a hundred thousand to 40,000.
That's a lot of money that you justsaved for, you know, whatever that is.
Is that $4,800?
That's a lot.
(52:22):
I'd, I'd, I'd save 60,000by spending 48 all day long.
And then you go ahead and pay thatother, um, you know that department
manager that put it all together andmade sure it got done, you know, you'd
probably go ahead and pay that person$5,000 or $4,000 or whatever it is.
(52:42):
Now.
They're gonna want, if you may, if yousave $60,000, they're gonna want 30,000.
And I think that's ridiculous too.
That's just me.
Cost savings is a great placeto put an incentive plan.
Yeah.
You know why costsavings is a great place.
You want me, you want me, you wantme to do the math for you on that?
It's almost better than sales.
(53:02):
It is better than sales.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's twice as good in,in our world it's twice as good.
I'll explain it.
So
sales, you sell a thousanddollars, what do you have?
At a and, and if you're do, you'vegotta, you've gotta, you've gotta,
uh, you gotta go to the job.
You gotta sell the job, you gottado the job and all that stuff.
(53:23):
And we're operating at a 50%gross profit for easy math.
Yeah.
That's 500 bucks.
So you got 500 bucks.
So did you, so if you sold aa thousand dollars job, did
you have a thousand dollars?
Nope.
Now, if you save a thousanddollars, what do you have?
A thousand dollars.
A thousand dollars?
Yep.
A thousand dollars.
It's doubling your money.
Every dollar you spend, every dollaryou save is like, is like $2 of sales.
(53:47):
Now, every dollar you save in adepartment that is operating at 70% gross
profit is way more than uh, a dollar.
It's like $3.
It's crazy.
Now you cannot save yourself intoprofitability, but you can save
yourself into another tax bracket.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Definitely you can do that.
You can't, holy
Sid (54:10):
shit, that is tweetable.
Uh, Tim, you can't saveyourself into profitability.
But if you're profitable and youstart saving some money, you can save
yourself into another tax bracket.
That's how you make some real money is.
Looking at your p and l and saving$200,000 in expenses, variable overhead or
(54:31):
fixed overhead, or a combination of both.
'cause then you don't have tosell $450,000 worth of work.
You just do the same amount ofwork with the same amount of
hours, with the same uh, people.
You're just saving the expenses.
There we go.
So there's, there's our rant on incentiveprograms and, and as somo as that is,
(54:56):
you know, we didn't, I mean, Keith didbring in the Harvard Business Review.
I mean, this is justour experience with it.
Um, this is, this is like rubbermeets the road, real nuts and bolts
experience with incentive programs.
Um, and so.
Uh, you know, I, I feel like it's,I feel like it's pretty good advice.
(55:17):
I, I, and, and I give thiskind of advice all the time.
Uh.
Keith mentioned the guys in my peergroup and, and we've, we've had
tons of discussions about this.
Why do you wanna do it?
You're, you're trying to get everyonerowing in the same direction and in
me, as the leader, I've gotta identifywhat are the areas that are gonna
make the biggest differences, andhow do I keep people focused on that?
(55:40):
Then also, how do I line them upwith what's in it for them, the
company and all of our futures?
When do I do that?
I do it when I've got somepretty good systems in place.
I know what success looks like and Iprobably have some help in implementing
and managing that process so I don't messit up because if you start something, you
(56:02):
damn well better be able to be consistentwith it or you're gonna lose all of
that, uh, leadership capital you, youbuilt up over the last couple of years.
And then how do you set it up?
Um, it just needs to bewin-win, so the company wins.
First, and then the team member wins.
And it's gotta be balancedwhere it can't be manipulated.
(56:23):
Um, and if you, you followthose three steps, I think
you're gonna be in good shape.
Keith, any final thoughts,questions, comments, concerns?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
The Harvard Business Review also said
Sid (56:40):
he's been hanging out with scientists and, and, uh, all these people.
The
Speaker 2 (56:46):
number one downfall of any incentive plan is the follow through.
Sid (56:54):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
So be sure that you can follow through.
It's so important withwhat you come up with.
Sid (57:01):
It's so important to you.
Entrepreneurs talking, I'm talking to
Speaker 2 (57:05):
myself too.
Well, yeah, that's the, that's the number.
I think that's a, a big problem just in.
In new business anyway.
Yeah, just follow through.
Sid (57:14):
Well, we start something 'cause we had an idea.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yeah.
Sid (57:17):
And we got like struck with the, the bug and let's just go do it.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yep.
Sid (57:21):
Same thing with incentive program.
Yeah.
It sounds like the right idea.
I see all the upsides, all the benefits.
I, I did not think about how I'mgoing to execute it and stay and,
and, and follow through with it.
That's why I'm always like,you gotta have someone.
Yeah, we're, we're implementingsome, some new incentive plans.
And my first question is, cool.
Who's gonna do that?
(57:43):
Because everyone will come with you toan come with, come to you with an idea.
Man, I think we ought to do this.
Yeah, that's great.
Who's gonna do it?
Who's gonna manage it?
Oh, well I assumed you would.
Well, that's a terrible mistake.
Do you know me?
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm, that's, no, I'm not doing that.
Let's, let's think, let'sthink a little bit deeper.
Who's gonna do that?
(58:04):
You know, who's reallysuper organized on our team?
Okay.
Looks like it's gonna be Jamie.
Excellent.
Jamie, you got one more thing to do.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Yeah.
I asked, I asked that w this week.
I had somebody come on myteam and say, you should do.
I love it.
I love
Sid (58:22):
the You should.
Yeah.
And I'm like.
Really, although you're pretty, you'repretty big on You should do this.
I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm like, well, I've
Speaker 2 (58:31):
learned to turn it back.
Sid (58:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
So, oh, good times.
Let us know if you successfully,I hope we've not scared.
Scared you out.
No, you're doing great.
Implementing incentive.
They're great.
They're definitely good.
Yeah.
So let us know if you start one.
Yeah.
And let us know how it turns out.
Hey, you know who can helpyou with incentive plans?
Who's that?
Um, our sponsors.
Um, C two Wealth.
(58:57):
Oh, okay.
If you're at the stage where youneed to add some real incentives
to your organization, they do that.
Like health benefits?
Health benefits, yeah.
Like some, you know, thatis definitely an incentive.
Plan.
401k, that's definitely a set plan.
Your match, you gotta a term match.
A match, yeah.
Whatever they can help and you know whocan help tell you if it's a good idea
(59:19):
for you to do it well, well, C two L canimplement it, but then Johnny Barranco
can tell you if it's a good idea.
That's a good point.
And you're ready for it.
Sid (59:26):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yep.
He can definitely help.
Thanks everyone.
I'm out.
Yep.
Out.
Peace.
Me as the leader, I've gotta identify what are the areas that are
(00:04):
gonna make the biggest differences, andhow do I keep people focused on that?
Then also, how do I line them upwith what's in it for them, the
company, and all of our futures.
Welcome everyone to another episode ofthe Overlap podcast where we dive into
(00:24):
the intersections of work, fitness,family, faith, parenting, and leadership.
And here we believe that growthin one area of your life fuels
growth in all areas of your life.
And that's why we're committed totaking the lessons we've learned
from business, breaking them downinto simple, actionable insights and
empowering small business leaders And.
You know, everyone else to thrive.
(00:46):
Um, that's really our mission here.
So, uh, we appreciate you guyslistening and, uh, thanks for tuning
in today or tonight or whatever thetime is, whenever you are listening.
And, uh, here we go.
How you been, Keith?
Very good.
How are you man?
I'm doing great.
Been, uh, been super busy lately.
I know you have too.
So, uh, before I get into me,what, what have you been up to?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh man, we've been, um, I. I'm doing a lot with family
and, uh, hatch had a big event,event last night with, uh, yeah.
Let, let's start with family.
Hold on.
Let's
Sid (01:21):
go back to family.
Yeah.
What, what, what are you doing there?
Parents?
Oh, yes.
So you've had a lot going on.
I had lot going
Speaker 2 (01:28):
on with parents and I was telling someone just
last week I was, I was like.
You know, and I you'vebeen through this as well.
Yeah.
Uh, parents aging is a hard thing.
Sid (01:41):
Yeah, man.
And then, uh, I sort of always remembermy dad at like 45 to 50 and, uh, yeah.
It just, yeah, it didn't stay that way.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's part of life, isn't it?
It is.
It's, and so, uh, so you've, but you'vebeen able to be there for him, been
able to be there, um, did get to.
We traveled a bit.
Yep.
And so that was cool, gettingto get out and ski and then, uh,
last week got back and back at it.
Sid (02:12):
Yeah.
So you said, you were saying before I cutyou off that hatch had, uh, a big event.
Tell, tell me about that.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (02:18):
we did.
Um, we did a biotech event, whichsounds way smart for me to be involved.
It does, admittedly.
Uh, I was sitting in a room lastnight with scientists and doctors and.
Academia thinking, why am I here?
Sid (02:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But, um, really great event.
Bringing the biotech and, andmarine sciences and ag sciences and
all of those folks together, uh,under one roof was kind of cool.
We led a panel and tryingto see how we facilitate
(02:53):
a program that benefits them so.
Okay.
That's kind of cool.
So benefits the scientists does.
Yeah.
Okay.
Or, or involves them in creating technotechnology out of Ballwin County.
So, you know, that's apretty cool thing too.
Cool, cool.
And then, uh, about to launch abook with the publishing company
(03:15):
and so all that good stuff, man.
Spring has sprung it.
Spring has sprung.
Yeah.
And, um, so just been,and I hate the term busy.
Yeah.
Because busy a lot oftimes means not effective.
Oh,
Sid (03:31):
okay.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And so I, that's what I'm trying to get better at is, is this
effective, busy or is it just being busy?
Okay.
Because I think we've talkedabout this before, we have
really easy to just be busy.
Sid (03:46):
Mm-hmm.
And not productive.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Right.
Sid (03:48):
Yeah.
How about you?
So, uh, yeah, we, we,we had some time off.
Keith and I, uh, went with, um, threeother guys that were, that were in a
peer group of mine for over 17 years.
Um, we went skiing and, and,and caught up with them.
Keith got to, uh.
(04:08):
Kind of, kind of meet those guysthat, that really I grew up with
in business and learned a lot from.
And, uh, and we, we did some skiing.
The weather was okay.
Uh, snow was just okay.
But the company was pretty great.
Um, and we got to spend some time there.
And then Saturday, everyoneleft and I picked up the,
uh, picked up wife and kids.
(04:30):
On, uh, after spending about threehours at a, uh, Gold's Gym in Montrose,
Colorado, it was a strange experience.
I love the pictures from the Gold Gym.
I was there just going, what is going on?
Did you flex in the mirror?
I did not.
And I didn't grunt or anything.
You didn't, because I don'tknow that that's allowed.
Maybe that's only Planet Fitness, but itwas, it was just a different experience.
(04:52):
I don't know that I've ever beento one of those kind of gyms.
You know what really?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
It didn't take me by surprise, but this is kind
of a plug for a peer group.
But seeing you guys and how yourbusinesses have grown over the
years and how the relationship hasformed between you, between all
of you was really great to see.
Yeah, and it's a plug forjust being in community.
Sid (05:16):
Being in community is for sure.
And, and, and, and within thatcommunity there's, you know, cliques
is probably, uh, one word for it, but.
But just cohorts is probably abetter word, where we were all
about the same age and all of ourbusinesses were about the same age.
(05:37):
And so we really justkind of grew up together.
Um, uh, and that guy Clint, who's beenon the podcast, Clint Allison, him and
I started the same, uh, the same year.
Uh, and those other two guysstarted just two years before us.
So, um.
It was great and, and we really didspend a lot of time together seeing
each other's businesses quite a fewtimes and uh, and talked to each
(06:00):
other a lot over the last 20 years.
And
Speaker 2 (06:03):
the topic that we're talking about today, actually, y'all talked
about quite a bit, is how to incentivize
Sid (06:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah.
How, how do you incentivize team members?
Right.
And what is fair and what's not,and what's expected, and what's
mandatory and what's extra.
Sid (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know?
Sid (06:21):
Yeah.
And, uh, the, the nice thing abouta, uh, a peer group or a, you know,
community in general is that youreally don't have to go at it alone.
You've got someone that you can, um.
Especially once you've developed somegood relationships over the period of
years, you've got some people that youcan talk to that know your business,
(06:42):
know your people, know your tendencies,strengths and weaknesses, and they can
give you some real good advice and,and, and, and it takes time to get that.
Uh, so
Speaker 2 (06:53):
yeah, and I really enjoyed it also because it was an immense
amount of knowledge about bourbon.
It does guys really know a lot.
Yeah.
So they're really into it.
And so we had a good
Sid (07:03):
time, uh, testing that out.
Yeah.
They did not like Keith Mescalbecause it's, I didn't know
this, but mescal is smokey.
Not all, all
Speaker 2 (07:11):
mescal, but the mescal that I like it is Okay.
I like a pd, like if I'm gonnadrink a scotch, I like a PD scotch.
Sid (07:18):
If
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I
Sid (07:19):
don't even know what
Speaker 2 (07:19):
PD means mean.
Burnt, burnt, uh, or smokey flavor.
The barrels are burnt.
The smokey, the smokeyflavor on the inside the
Sid (07:27):
barrel is burnt.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well in, in mezcal, in, in the difference between
mezcal and tequila is tequila.
The agave is steamed.
Mm-hmm.
And mescal, the agave isroasted under the ground.
Oh.
And so they build a fire underthe ground, Uhhuh put the agave
in, and then extract that.
Sid (07:49):
How do they get out from there?
How do they get the alcoholout of it or the liquid?
The sugars?
Uh, I'm not real sure aboutthat, but I steam Makes sense.
But that's a different, yeah.
So, huh, well, there was all kindsof talk like that in the, uh.
The, uh, in our, uh, our little meetup
Speaker 2 (08:07):
and, uh, well, and I think that's important too about a peer group
is like, not, not, not only did you,do, you only talk about business and
what your business is doing, but youlike delve in personal too, so Yeah.
We know each other's kids, man.
Sid (08:20):
Yeah.
Our kids know each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is, that's super cool.
My kids love Clint.
They hated, they missed him.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Well, who wouldn't love?
I know.
He's freaking hilarious.
He's hilarious.
He's
Sid (08:30):
hilarious.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Um, I meant the dude, the dude wore blue jeans under his ski pants.
I know.
So he could just.
He just wore his Tennessee hat.
That's right.
Skiing and no
Sid (08:40):
goggles.
Oh no.
He wore a Flora Bama hat.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Not a, not a goggle.
Not a goggle.
Yeah.
Just as coast of Del Mars.
Sid (08:47):
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was
Speaker 2 (08:49):
awesome.
Sid (08:50):
Yeah.
So, uh, like Keith said, we'retalking today, uh, about when, I
mean really why then, when, and howto implement an incentive program.
Um, this is an area.
Or a topic that gets, I think most peoplethink they, they know the answer to.
(09:11):
It's almost like communication.
Everyone goes, oh yeah, incentive.
Yeah, just incentivize 'em.
And it sounds smart and it sounds, um,like the right thing to do, but isn't
and when is very important in my opinion.
And then, um, you know, why and how.
(09:34):
Those questions are just so more, somuch more important than people just
realize and, and I think most peoplehave a flippant kind of attitude
towards developing an incentiveprogram until you actually sit
down and try to come up with one.
I.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah.
Sid (09:53):
So, um,
Speaker 2 (09:55):
let me ask you a question.
Okay.
Because I think we need to clarifythis before we move into incentive
plans, what they do and howthey do it and all that stuff.
When in your company did you decide,
and it can be like a team member number orthat you need to incorporate incentives.
Sid (10:19):
Okay.
Um.
You know, when we were talking aboutthat peer group, um, after I had gotten
in for a couple of years, uh, I hadstarted to iron out some processes.
You know, and then some waysthis is the way we do things.
Uh, for the first couple of years itwas just me doing it and sort of, you
(10:43):
know, coming out of school you've gotan idea of how you're gonna do things.
And I had some other experiences like,uh, you know, being in the Coast Guard
and I had some, some ideas about that.
And I had worked for other landscape.
Companies, and I hadsome ideas about that.
And, you know, uh, anyone that's everstarted a business thinks they're gonna
do it their way and, and maybe usesome of the things that, you know, but
I was still experimenting, you know,and, and I didn't really have any.
(11:07):
I certainly didn't have any writtenprocesses, but really didn't even
have like some standard processes.
Uh, so after a couple of years we starteddeveloping some pretty standard processes.
This is how we do things.
Um, for instance, we, we were really, um,focused for a couple years and dialed it
(11:27):
in that, you know, man hours on each job.
And so that was the first incentiveprogram I ever came up with was like,
Hey, we sell a job, you're on that job.
If we meet these, um, these hours,you know, if we hit, you know, if
it's a hundred hour job and we getit done in a hundred hours, I'll
(11:48):
give you something, like a dollarfor each one of the hours, you know?
And if we go under, great, butif we go over, you don't, we
don't get anything, you know?
Um.
And so when, and I mean, sorry.
Why?
Let's start with why,why would you do that?
(12:10):
Why would, why do wewant an incentive plan?
I think that's a good questionand for me, and, and I want the
listener to hear me out on this.
If we're, if you are a businessleader, if you're an owner, you're
the CEO, you're whatever president,you're just the startup founder.
(12:30):
Doesn't matter if you're inviting peopleto come on the team, what you have to do.
My goal is, is I've gotta go out front andsee what is possible and then have an idea
of what margin can be created and then.
Use that margin to share it with thepeople that are gonna help me get there.
(12:53):
Does that make sense?
It does.
So that's a broad statement to justsay, I know at that point in time,
when you ask me, I know that if Ican hit the hours on every one of
these, then we're gonna create.
Way more margin, more money.
We're gonna make this amount ofmoney and every time we go over,
we lose some of that margin.
(13:13):
So if I can incentivize and, andwe were, I was, we, like I said, I
had a couple of years of trying itout and I could see we were missing
the mark about 25% of the time.
I'll say at least half of that.
So 12.5% was my estimating process.
But the other part was I left the, youknow, I left the job unattended to go.
(13:34):
Uh, you know, do another estimate ordo some invoicing or see a customer
about something else, whatever.
Right?
And you'd be gone half the day or theday and just wor work didn't get done.
You know, even if you had a righthand guy or girl or whatever.
And so, not
back to the leadership part.
(13:56):
What I have to remind myself, I have toremind myself all the time still is that.
I can get people fired up about things,you know, the team and all of that stuff,
but ultimately to get 'em fired up and,and, and have it be sustainable, they
need to understand what's in it for them.
So an incentive program reallystarts to put that, um, that talk
(14:20):
or that my money where my mouth is.
And so I was like, Hey,we gotta hit these hours.
We gotta hit these hours.
Oh, by the way, I've created thisplan and if we hit these hours, you
know, you get a dollar for everyone of the hours that, that, that.
That, that's on the job.
Um, and, and it was just pretty simplemath and, and, uh, and it, and it worked.
(14:41):
And what it did was it got everyonerowing in the same direction.
I. It got everyone focused onthis is the most important thing.
Well, in at that time.
Um, it got everyone focused on production.
It got everyone focused on,you know, managing their time.
It got everyone focused on, Hey, wewant to go ahead and spend an extra
hour or two hours to get that job done.
(15:03):
We might work a little late until sixo'clock so we don't have to spend the
extra hours of cleaning up the job site,loading up, driving back to the shop.
Uh, doing whatever you gotta do there.
Clocking out, coming in the nextmorning, clocking in, loading up
in the truck, driving to the jobset site, finishing that up, and
then finally getting off the job.
(15:24):
Now you're five hours over and you lose.
So why is at the basic foundational levelis to get everyone focused on what's
most important and leadership is really.
Getting everyone focused on thedifferences that make the difference.
(15:48):
That's what leadership is.
You gotta have, that's why we saynumbers are the language of business.
And if you're gonna run a business, owna business or anything else, you need to
know what that is so you can understand.
I. All the things, right?
You don't understand, understand'em all, but you need to understand
it's well enough to know theseare the most important things.
(16:08):
Now I can focus these guys on this,and that's gonna be different for each
department group or achievable goals.
Clear, pretty much achievable goals,
Speaker 2 (16:15):
and that helps you formulate that incentive formulation of that.
Exactly.
Right.
Sid (16:20):
Yeah.
Does that answer your question?
It does.
Yes.
That was very long-winded.
I'm sorry.
'cause
Speaker 2 (16:24):
a lot of people say, uh, the incentive is they get to work here.
Mm-hmm.
Well, well I, but I think to That's at a
Sid (16:30):
very low level.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
But I think to create, tocreate, you know, excitement
around them coming to work.
Sid (16:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
And giving the, giving your team members a sense of ownership.
You've gotta bring them in the process.
Yeah.
And a lot of times.
I have failed to, to bring theteam members into the process and
say, this is where we're going.
I'm just like, go do, do that.
Sid (16:57):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You know, here's the task, go do it.
But.
Giving them some ownership,I think is important.
Sid (17:05):
100%.
And the way I like to think about it is,is I, I think most people listening to
the podcast, um, and, and most peopleI ever talk to about this have, have
had some experience with team sports.
And the leader, the CEO, the president,the manager, whatever is you, you, you
gotta think of yourself as the head coach.
(17:27):
And if I just bark at my playersto, you know, block right?
Without explaining the why, and thenincentivizing the good behavior.
I'm not, it's not very sustainablefor them to do what I need them
to do over a period of time.
Um, it's sort of like your kids, right?
(17:47):
There's some overlaps there.
If all I do is complain to them, I.
About not making the bed.
They're never gonna want to do it.
It not that they're evergonna want to, right?
But there'll be that, that, thatwill sort of diminish a little bit.
If you kind of explain the why you, you goahead and you put your arm around 'em, you
help 'em, and, and you build a little bitof a relationship with them, that's way
(18:11):
more sustainable than just barking at 'em.
And so.
I think that incentive plan or incentivesin general are just a tool for me to
bridge the gap and build a relationshipand then also put my money where my mouth
is and show them what's in it for them.
Uh, is there an acronymlike W Em or something?
(18:32):
What's in it for me?
There's something like that.
Josh De Plan says that all the time.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, that may be text lingo 'cause my kids will send me
like letters on a text and I don'tknow what that means a lot either.
I'm like, what does this mean?
Yeah.
But, so there was a study, HarvardBusiness Review did, and they fell, and
this is like in highlights, well-designedincentive plans, increased employee
(18:59):
motivation and productivity by 20 to 30%.
Sid (19:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
But well-designed is the key there.
Sid (19:05):
Yeah.
Well designed is, is the key.
And, and we're gonna getinto that a lot today.
Um.
I'll also say as we, as rightas we're getting started, it's
not always money, you know?
Yeah.
Sometimes it's just recognition.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, I think you, I saw a study that Gen Z is more, um, like.
Pat on the back base.
Yeah.
If you can give, if you can give aGen ZA pat on the back, it's what
it, it's even greater than monetary.
Sid (19:37):
Yeah.
Their love language is wordsof affirmation, I'm sure.
Yeah.
They gotta
Speaker 2 (19:39):
feel like they're making a difference.
Sid (19:41):
Right?
Yeah.
And, um, I think, I think a, agood incentive program is holistic
and sort of covers a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
This surprised me also when I saw this, this stat.
Gallup did a poll and in 2023 and 23%of employees feel engaged at work.
Sid (20:02):
Oof.
That's scary.
Well,
that's, uh, that could be agood thing or a bad thing if
you're competing in the market.
That's a good thing, right?
Because you can, you can be that.
You could be that 20, 26%, youknow, you could serve that.
You could be that person that'sserving those, you know, those people.
(20:23):
And then the talent from the otherplaces that are not serving them will
eventually make their way to your shop.
Every obstacle's an opportunity, right?
Um, so when.
To implement, uh, an incentive program.
And I alluded to that with my firstexample is, is when you've got some
(20:46):
systems in place, like this is how you'vedone, this is how we're going to do it.
Um, and you've done the math on makingsure that, one, you're not giving away the
farm, but two, that uh, that it's enough.
A difference to make the differenceif you give everyone a dollar in 19.
(21:12):
35 maybe that works, but in 2025,a dollar doesn't move the needle.
Not doing a hundred dollars isokay, but you know, if it's once
a month, a hundred dollars a monthisn't, isn't a big enough hit.
And maybe you're not at that point whereyou can do a thousand dollars a month.
Hell, I don't know that I ameither, but especially with all
(21:33):
the people, but the key people,if you can get it to, you know.
A hundred dollars a week or somethinglike that and still only give out
about 10% of that margin, thenyou're winning, winning, winning.
Um, so when you implement a systemis almost, it is as important as why
(21:55):
the system is, is very important.
But here's the one key piece thatmost people don't consider who
is going to manage that process?
Because if you're going to implementan incentive program and you're the
person that has to sort of, you know,collect the data, crunch the data,
(22:17):
come up with the, uh, the end gameconsistently at the end of each month,
or the 15th and the 30th, whatever the,the system is, if you're that person
and you don't have the capacity to doso, then you're gonna drop the ball.
And let me tell you whatyou never want to do.
You wanna lose some trust real quick,start messing up on an incentive program.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Oh, definitely.
Sid (22:37):
So people will just say you're a big fat liar.
'cause they think that anyways.
Or don't come through withwhat's promised or don't come
through with what's promised.
Yeah.
'cause you didn't do the math right.
And hey, we did.
Or you didn't explain it right.
Like, Hey, we don't pay this outuntil we get paid from the customer.
Well, that's not fair.
I'm like, I don't knowwhy that would be unfair.
I don't have the moneyuntil those people pay us.
(22:59):
Uh, so you gotta come up with a system.
You've gotta be at a certainscale that you probably have some
help, help coming, you know, to,like, maybe you got a bookkeeper,
maybe you got an office manager.
Maybe you've got someone that can help.
Or maybe not.
Maybe you're the person, uh, that'simplementing it and you're not, you
(23:20):
know, a hundred percent in sales or,or something that's gonna drag you away
from it and keep your eye off the ball.
Uh, if you can do it, that's great.
My hat's off to you, butmost of the time I've.
I have needed to delegate that to someonethat's going to consistently do it.
That's when it really works.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
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Sid (24:22):
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(24:46):
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Speaker 2 (25:00):
Do you find that individual incentives work or team base?
Sid (25:05):
I like a little bit of both.
I like a little bit of both.
We have an entire teambase incentive program.
We call it a, a self-funded incentiveplan, and we have a certain, uh,
dollar amount in our budget everyyear, and it's, and it's pretty large.
And if we hit the quarterly goal.
For the first quarter, we pay out 10%of that budgeted amount, and it goes
(25:29):
to everyone on the team from, uh, theguy on the front lines swinging a weed
eater to the guy managing, managingdirector of operations, and they're
all gonna get the exact same amount.
Um, and the first quarter it'sa low amount, but we haven't
collected a bunch of money yet.
So it's 10% of what, let's sayit's a hundred thousand dollars.
So there's $10,000 to sharebetween, let's say 40 people.
(25:52):
And, and you've gotta qualify for it.
So you have to be therepast your first 90 days.
This is just an idea of an incentive plan.
Um, so you have to be there for thefirst, no, you, you've had to have worked
your full 90 days past your probationaryperiod and worked that whole quarter as
a full fledged, you know, team member.
Uh, you can give some peoplesome exemptions on that.
(26:14):
I don't do it very often, but there mightbe a guy we hire in as like a, as a, uh,
an account manager and he is got a lotof experience and we're whatever, you
know, we're just getting 'em on there.
But usually there's notany, uh, ex exemptions.
So they've worked that full quarter.
There you go.
And it limits your number.
You know, those people that turn over,they just never get in that pool.
(26:35):
Um, you can miss that first quarter.
Let's say that, say you'vegotta have a 10% net profit.
Because we've done themath, we're typically at 8%.
If we can get another 2%, 2% on thenet profit of there pays everybody,
you know, it pays for it all.
And then some, right?
And then some is the most important part.
Like you can't give away the whole farm.
'cause if you're owning, you're carryingthe risk and you don't know what's
(26:59):
coming around the corner the next month.
So you gotta keep socking away.
Then the second quarter,um, you hit that target.
Let's say it's 10%, whatever.
Um.
At that quarter and you, youdidn't hit it in the first quarter.
You can, you can, you'llpay out 30% that point.
'cause it's 10 plus 20.
Or they, you hit the first quarter.
You only hit the you and thenyou pay out the second quarter.
(27:21):
That's 20% of that a hundred thousand.
Right.
Third quarter would be 30% four.
Fourth quarter would be 40%.
You add it all up,that's a hundred percent.
It's crazy.
Right.
Yeah, but let's say you missfirst, second, third quarter, you
can still keep people engaged.
And as a coach I can still say,look guys, we can still win this.
(27:41):
It's my job to do the plan.
How are we gonna win this?
But we can still win this with a HailMary at the end of the fourth quarter.
We can get a hundred percent payouton this thing with all of you that
have stuck out the whole, thatstuck around the whole year and.
You can get some people firedup about that, but you can also
keep 'em fired up, hitting the,the quarters one after another.
(28:03):
And it's at a frequency, and it'sgenerally since it, since it's, uh,
economical and, and, and, um, equitableif you will, everyone's got the same
amount people can get behind it.
But those folks that aredriving each department.
You can come up with adifferent program for them.
Maybe it's every quarter, maybe it'severy month, maybe it's twice a year.
(28:25):
It, it kind of depends on your cycle.
And every business has a cycle.
Uh, quarters work pretty wellfor us, but maybe they don't
work for some other places.
Um, we've got some highs and lows too.
And uh, you just gotta giveit some thought, but when.
Back to that question, when is whenyou've got some good systems in place,
(28:47):
you've got some record, some trackrecords, you know what success looks
like, and you probably have someone.
To help you implement or, uh, keep trackof this, keeping track of it is so hard.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I think a good place to start though.
Um, and I've done thisis a non-cash incentive.
Sid (29:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah.
I love it.
And, and so like travel or mm-hmm.
Give them a night at a hotel.
Yeah.
Or, you know, get thema, uh, Chick-fil-A card.
Sid (29:19):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know, if you do well on a project and can, can afford it.
Start the incentives there.
Yeah.
And then you'll see, because I, Iused to do gift cards a lot and Yeah.
I saw like they would look forward to it,
Sid (29:34):
man.
So you're hitting on one of the thingswhere I was gonna actually circle
back around and say, not everythinghas to be some well thought out plan.
If all you're trying to do iscatch people doing something right.
Right.
That's a different deal.
And, and maybe you cancall it incentive plan.
All you're really doing is you mighthave $200 of, of, of $20 Chick-fil-A gift
(29:59):
cards, you know, and all you're doingis passing those out when you see, uh,
Jimmy did a great job with this customerand the customer called in and said, man.
I just wanted to let youknow Jimmy's great you go.
I really appreciate that.
You know what I'm gonna do?
We're gonna tip him for you.
We've got a 20, we've got $20 giftcards that we give out, and uh, we'll
(30:20):
make sure we give him one of those.
And thank you so much for giving usa call and giving us that feedback.
You know what you've done, you've madethat customer, I. Uh, know that your,
that their feedback is appreciated.
You, you let that customer know that youappreciate the team member and you've
got a little thing that you're gonnado for 'em and they feel good about it.
And then you go give Jimmythe, uh, the gift card.
(30:41):
You say, man, Ms. Morgan saidthat you did a fantastic job.
I just wanna say thanks.
Take this, do whatever you want.
Um, $20 cash is pretty good, uh,but whatever you want to do, but it.
The idea behind that is that it's, um,it's not, uh, systemic or system based.
(31:04):
It's more of when I see it, I say it.
Does that make sense?
And I think it keeps people fromgetting entitled and it makes
it seem a little more genuine.
And if you, and if you spread itaround and, and you're really,
uh, you know, thoughtful aboutit, you're going to keep people.
(31:24):
You know, focused on doing a goodjob and you're probably building
a lot of bridges and building alot of relationships that way.
It's infrequent, it's nice.
It doesn't have to be full systemic.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's really hard.
Early on.
Mm-hmm.
To be, to, to have an incentive plan.
It really is that that is dedicated,that we're gonna do this every time.
Sid (31:50):
And if you just took out a hundred dollars and you had it
in a cat, like in your, yeah.
Console of your truck or something, andit's all in tens or something, and you
give someone a $10 bill, you know, youjust go, Hey, I just wanna let you know
you're doing a great job this week.
Appreciate it, man, thatgoes such a long way.
And $10 is almost nothing to 'em.
(32:13):
But they appreciate just thethought, the good people, the right
people appreciate the thought.
And if they don't, maybe they'renot the right person on the team.
That's, I just gave them a Yeti cup.
Did you?
Yeah, I got one too.
Oh,
Speaker 2 (32:29):
sweet.
I love the small Yetis.
Yeah, it's the perfect size.
Uh, bourbon goes in there.
Did Stephanie
Sid (32:35):
tell you that?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah.
She like,
Sid (32:40):
even Tim's laughing at that one.
Yeah.
He, I mean these are micro Yetis.
Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
You know, we're on a budget.
Sid (32:48):
On a budget.
Yeah.
It's genetic.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Um, no, no.
Everybody gives a big Yeti out.
Yeah.
But Tim Ounce, the 10 ounce don't happen.
And so I gave those.
Sid (32:58):
Yeah, they're pretty great actually.
I do like 'em.
Hmm.
Yeah,
I was gonna say coffee is probablythe appropriate drink for there, Tim.
(33:20):
Tim's really into the wine right now.
Cheese, he is the wine and, uh, yeah,but I mean, I, and like the, uh,
the club soda and gin or something.
And
Speaker 2 (33:28):
don't worry, Tim, I have gone directly from Coffee
to Bourbon in the same cup.
Oh yeah.
It's not, it's not a bad problem at all.
Sid (33:34):
Tim.
I also learned in our trip that usingthe same ice cube for the second glass of
bourbon is very, uh, is a very good call.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Dirty ice.
Dirty ice.
That's what they were all saying.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Uh, where were we?
We were talk, we were talking about thatincentive plans doesn't have to be set.
Yeah.
That we could, we could start outwith, you can totally start out with
catching people doing something right?
Yeah.
Catching people doing something right.
Sid (34:05):
Man, that's such a lost leadership art of just saying thank you.
I've noticed.
Hey, you've done a really good job.
I wanted you to know ithasn't gone unnoticed.
Here's, here's, you know, here's 20 bucks.
Whatever.
Uh, I really appreciate it.
I know it's not, I know it's not alot, but it's, but it's just a little
bit of a gratitude, you know, a littlebit of a token of my gratitude and I
(34:26):
want you to know that I appreciate you.
What I mean, that's, thatgoes, it goes so far.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
The IRF, I don't know what that is, but Return, return on, no, the.
So the IRF is a,
Sid (34:44):
oh no, I thought it was RIF.
Sorry,
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I'm dyslexic.
Oh, the Incentive Research Foundation.
Oh.
Found that non-cash incentiveprograms, if you start, it can
increase employee engagement by 31%.
So.
That's the problem.
I mean, or that's, that's the wholegoal, I think, with your team members,
(35:10):
is to keep them engaged in the process.
Yeah.
Sid (35:14):
Mm-hmm.
And really, I think you've gottaconstantly break down the wall of
the idea that society puts out there.
Modern culture puts out there that it'sthe worker versus management, you know?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Right.
Sid (35:30):
Um, and it's not, it's not their fault that they think that way.
It just, that's just whatthe deal is, you know?
But if you can keep breaking thatthing down by bridging gaps and having
incentives and catching people doingsomething right and genuinely caring,
then um, that starts to melt away.
(35:52):
And people, you, you build upa lot of leadership capital and
you can get a lot of stuff done.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And I, I, I also think just some kind of
notice that you care.
Yeah.
Helps retention a ton.
Like just a ton.
Someone understanding, Hey,this guy cares about me.
Yeah.
This company cares about me
Sid (36:15):
100%.
And it doesn't take much.
And that goes, even if it's someonethat, that needs to leave or is going
to leave your organization, if you treatthem with respect and you don't take it
all personal, this person's leaving andyou treat 'em with respect and think
about it that like, Hey, this persondid a great job while they were here.
(36:37):
Um, when they started, we were here, andnow that they're leaving, we're here.
We, when he started, we were there.
When he is leaving, we are here.
And, uh, it was a big, he was,this person was a big part of that.
And man, it's funny, just treatingpeople right is the right thing
to do in a number of differentways, but it should also lead back.
(37:00):
You having a good pu uh, uh,uh, reputation as an employer.
And that's kind of whatwe're all trying to do.
Here's my take on, on, uh, being anemployer, especially in the service
industry or no matter what your,um, no matter what your business is
in whatever industry that is, we'reall, there's only a finite number
(37:22):
of people out there to do the job.
And so to a certain degree,we're all playing, we're all,
you know, SEC football coaches.
And we're all recruitingout of the same talent pool.
I'll be Nick Saban.
You do.
Look, you would win.
You would, you would win because thatguy's the goat dude and he really, he's
(37:44):
one of the most impressive humans ever.
But back to this, um, I. We're all SECfootball coaches, and whoever recruits
the best talent for the most part, wins.
Now you've gotta be able to develop thattalent and get them all, um, singing outta
the same songbook and rowing in the samedirection, uh, but getting the the right.
(38:07):
Horses on the team, or butts onthe bus is, is the first step.
And then getting them all to buyinto the process is the second step.
Getting them all to executewhen it counts is the third.
So, you know, you, you gottathink of it that way and just
start at first principles.
And first principles is, I need talent.
And so how am I gonna do that?
(38:27):
Well, it's e everything.
It's everything.
It's, does your place look good?
Do you, uh, you know, doyou have decent equipment?
Are you treating people right?
You know, do you have a well-writtenad? All that stuff in the interview
process, are you asking good questionsor are you being a jerk about it?
Like, oh, you're gonna haveto earn it to work here.
(38:47):
You know, that kind of stuff.
And it's just an attitude.
And then onboarding, do you have a waythat you're actually helping them onboard
so they feel like you've, you've givenit some thought, you know, um, you've
actually thought about the first time youtook a new job and thought, Ooh, there's.
Yeah, it's pretty nerve wracking.
You're a little bit, you gotsome anxiety going on there.
Do you ease that?
Do you get 'em engaged early?
(39:09):
Do you set 'em up with a mentor, uh,someone to walk 'em through the process?
Do you, do you spend enough time withthem in the first, you know, 90 days
you as the president, are you checkingin on 'em every couple of weeks and
making sure everything's going okay?
All of those things leaks out into therest of the talent pool and starts.
(39:30):
Those are, those are, uh, as ChrisBell would put it, those are boomerangs
you're putting out and they'reeventually gonna come back to you.
Then if you've got a good incentiveprogram, it keeps everyone engaged
and it makes the leadership wordsyou're putting out there not
ring so hollow and they actually.
(39:54):
Let them know that something's init for them, not just, you know,
they think it's lining our pockets.
You know, I literally think, uh, beforewe started discussing our p and l and
all of our other financial data with ourentire team, they probably thought I was
just taking wheelbarrow loads of cashhome, which is absolutely not the truth.
(40:16):
So, gives you an opportunityto, to explain all of that
too, and, and you really.
Attract, hire and retainthe best team members.
If, if, if you got a holistic approach.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think incentive planning.
I worked for a company one time, um,in the corporate space where, but
that was complicated where I was, um,
like salary plus.
Mm-hmm.
But I never knew.
What the Plus was.
Sid (40:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Like I never knew how to get to the plus.
Sid (40:53):
Yeah.
It's, it's crazy how theymake it all complicated.
So
Speaker 2 (40:55):
it wasn't clear.
It wasn't clear at all.
Sid (40:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And so it, it was very demotivating for me to ever try because I
was like, I, one month I'd hit it the nextmonth I didn't and I had the same sales.
So I don't know.
Yeah.
Like what breaks up.
So I think you have to be veryclear on what the incentive plan is.
Yeah.
What is the, what is the incentive?
(41:17):
And I think you have to make it available
to, for everyone
Sid (41:25):
to know.
Yeah.
A ninth grader shouldbe able to understand.
Right.
Your incentive for Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
If I do this and excel at this.
Yeah.
This happens.
Sid (41:34):
Yeah.
Keep it simple.
Yeah.
It, it, it's like any other,it's like any other leadership.
Thing.
You know, any directive,you gotta keep it simple.
And the, and the, the moresimple it is, the better it
Speaker 2 (41:50):
is.
Another thing I would do when I startedmy company is I would, I would speak in.
What ifs.
If we do this, then I'm gonna do this.
Oh.
And I think that's demotivating too.
When you are, when you start outearly with your team members.
Okay.
Is speaking in the Whatif we do well this month?
I'm gonna make sure you get it.
Oh, so you weren't reallydefine, it was fuzzy.
(42:11):
What well was, I think you, yeah,you gotta define what well is,
Sid (42:14):
yeah.
Yeah, dude.
Implementing an incentive program is,is definitely going to make you get
crystal clear with your language and,and the outcome you're shooting for.
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Definitely.
So,
Sid (42:26):
uh, if you've got a real salesperson, like a real one,
Speaker 2 (42:30):
yeah.
Sid (42:30):
Uh, they may not.
Ask for clarity on that, uh,on that incentive program and
what the defined outcome is.
But they're shooting for what theythink it is, and if you guys are not
aligned, you are going to get it, son.
They are going to be real aggressiveabout how you lied to them, you know?
(42:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
And if you're a team member listening to this episode.
Do not hesitate to ask for clarity.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Because one of the things that I would,I, I would do as a, as a leader is say,
oh, if we, if I'm gonna do this, whenwe hit this, well, I had a team member
(43:14):
one time say, what, what does that mean?
And it helped me.
It helped me clarify what I was promising.
Sid (43:21):
Yeah.
Um, I'll also say if you're a teammember, you're a business leader of a
department or just anything and you gotsomeone trying to implement an incentive
program and it's messy and it's not goingokay, let's have a little bit of grace.
'cause they're at leasttrying to do something they.
(43:43):
These things are tough, and everythingsounds like a good idea, even on
paper until it starts to get executedand you didn't think about what, you
didn't think about all of my bestideas or all of my biggest mistakes.
I'm sorry.
All of my biggest mistakesstarted out as fantastic ideas.
I never had a bad idea.
I. They just turned out to be wrong.
(44:05):
You know?
So have a little bit of grace becauseat least people are trying and I'm
saying that to you, the listener, touh, yeah, give yourself a little bit of
grace and maybe be a little bit, I. Morebrave and at least trying something.
And if you set your people up to say,Hey, I don't know that I've got this
fully, uh, a hundred percent dialedin, but I would like to try something.
(44:29):
'cause I wanna make sure that we're rowingin the right direction and I wanna make
sure that I'm putting my money where mymouth is, that uh, this is the difference
that's gonna make the difference.
And if we do these things,here's what I think I can do.
Let's try this for a littlewhile and see if it works.
That's a real good approach tostarting an incentive program.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah.
I think you have to look atthe sustainability of it.
Yeah.
Can you sustain it?
Can this be sustained and a try?
I I don't think there's anythingin the world wrong with a try.
Yeah.
Hey.
And, but be very clear about it.
Say, let's try this.
Sid (45:02):
Well help you when you hire people, you put 'em on
a 90 day probationary period.
Right.
I mean, at least we do.
I, I think that's stilla standard practice.
It is.
I haven't worked anywherein a long, in long time.
I think it's, yeah.
Uh.
So even then we're just going,Hey, we're just giving this a shot.
You know, if it doesn't workout, doesn't make you a bad
person, just makes you a bad fit.
Um, and so trying that out is good,but I, I think we're segueing into
(45:26):
how, how to implement a system,um, in, in my, in, in broad, in a
broad scope, it needs to be win-win.
It, it can't be all one sided for thebusiness owner or management, and it can't
be all one sided, uh, to the team member.
(45:48):
Um, so it needs to bebalanced in that way.
It needs to be balanced in a waythat it can't be manipulated either.
Let's do this, let's say that, um.
Let's say, let's say you'vegot sale a salesperson, right?
And you say, look, I'm going to giveyou, uh, 10% of every sale you make.
(46:14):
Well, let me tell youwhat you're gonna have.
If you've got a real, if you'vegot a real assassin out there.
A real sales badger, they're gonnasell everything and they won't
give a crap if it's good work.
Bad work in your area,not in your area, nothing.
Not because they're bad people,but they're just wired that way.
They see a goal, they'rejust going after it.
(46:36):
So they'll sell $2 million worthof shit you don't need, you know,
and you are on the hook to paythem whatever is that $20,000.
10.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
No, two.
2 million.
2 million.
That's two.
That's 200,000,
Sid (46:48):
200,000 bucks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a tough, that's a tough mistake.
If it's a bunch of, no, I'd neverdo 10%, but you get what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Unless they're all commissioned.
But yeah, we like
Speaker 2 (46:58):
easy math on this podcast.
Yeah.
10 percent's a good one,
Sid (47:01):
so, but either way.
So it needs to be balancedwhere it can't be manipulated.
So it's just clarifying your language.
We'll pay 10% on everything that'ssold, that is in our service area, that
meets our, uh, meets our whatever it is.
(47:22):
So we used to do hours, but hourscan get funky on that thing.
Uh, but just meet our gross profit margin.
So it's work that gets done now.
You're gonna get, oh, it's not my fault.
They didn't do that.
And I was like, well,it's not my fault either.
It's not my fault that either,you know, I didn't, I you, you
sold it was the job bid, right?
Oh, I promise it was bid.
(47:43):
Right.
Okay.
Well I didn't get, youknow, that kind of stuff.
You're still gonna have to deal with that,but you can work through it, but at least
it's balanced and at least, and, and yougotta, this is just a piece of advice.
You need to pay thecommission when you get paid.
And they go, well, Idon't wanna wait for it.
Well, what do you want me to do?
You want me to come outta my pocket?
I'm happy to do that.
(48:04):
But I thought we were a team here.
And so sometimes you gotta punch backor push back, I'm sorry, with, uh,
with, with aggressive salespeople.
And aggressive salespeople.
Do not put them down.
They're just wired that way.
And you need some badgers.
Definitely at least one.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yes,
Sid (48:21):
you, you need them.
You need them, and they're, and you can'tlike, get mad at 'em, uh, every once in
a while and then love 'em when they'rebringing, when they're making it rain.
So you just gotta understandthat's who they are.
And, and it's okay.
You need a hard charger.
You do need some hard chargers,and you may never have one of
those, and that's okay too.
But I'm just giving you some advicethat you better clean up your
(48:41):
language and make sure it's balancedand make sure you've explained it.
Three times, and I like to say, Hey,will you explain back to me what
you understand this thing to be?
In your own words.
That's a good one.
Would you mind explaining tome in your own words what you
see this incentive plan being?
(49:02):
Because then you get to hear what'srunning through their sales badger
head, which might still be, you'regonna pay me 10% on anything?
No, no, no.
For the fourth time, it's this.
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Sid (49:43):
I wanna take a moment to talk about someone who's been instrumental
in my personal and business success.
That's Johnny Barranco andhis team at Barranco and
Associates for over seven years.
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I can tell you that he's morethan just a tax preparer.
Johnny takes a holistic approach to allmy financial dealings, aligning them with
my long-term plans and personal lifestyle.
(50:07):
I've recommended Johnny to several friendsthroughout different business groups
around the country, and the feedbackhas been nothing short of exceptional.
His expertise and service are top-notch,so if you're looking for someone who
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future, Johnny and his team at BarrancoAssociates are the ones to call.
(50:27):
Trust me, you won't regret it.
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Speaker 2 (50:40):
Incentive plans also work to highlight a certain area
of product that you wanna grow.
Sid (50:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yeah.
So putting an incentive planon just a specific product
that you sell is fine too.
Sid (50:51):
Yeah.
I love an area that you're tryingto grow, putting everyone on it.
Just paying a, you know, a feeto everyone for that on top of
whatever thing you've got going on.
Right.
When it's, so, even more than sales,let's say you've got a, um, a department
manager and tires are a big issue.
(51:14):
You look, you, you know, in youranalysis from last year, you spent.
A hundred thousand dollars on, ontires, that would be a lot of money.
But if we can get that down to50,000 by implementing some, you
know, we're gonna put in this, uh,this liquid tube inside of every.
(51:36):
Uh, every tire, it'sgonna be, you know, $800.
You're gonna put it in twice a year,and then you're gonna have someone
go through with a metal detectorthrough the yard once a once a week
to get up any screws or nails, andnow you're only spending 40,000.
You know, you spent.
You know, $1,600 on the, the liquidtube, and then one guy a week for an
(52:02):
hour is gonna go through and do that.
There's another $1,600 and you spent$1,600 on a, uh, metal detector, and
you dropped your, uh, your tire expensefrom a hundred thousand to 40,000.
That's a lot of money that you justsaved for, you know, whatever that is.
Is that $4,800?
That's a lot.
(52:22):
I'd, I'd, I'd save 60,000by spending 48 all day long.
And then you go ahead and pay thatother, um, you know that department
manager that put it all together andmade sure it got done, you know, you'd
probably go ahead and pay that person$5,000 or $4,000 or whatever it is.
(52:42):
Now.
They're gonna want, if you may, if yousave $60,000, they're gonna want 30,000.
And I think that's ridiculous too.
That's just me.
Cost savings is a great placeto put an incentive plan.
Yeah.
You know why costsavings is a great place.
You want me, you want me, you wantme to do the math for you on that?
It's almost better than sales.
(53:02):
It is better than sales.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's twice as good in,in our world it's twice as good.
I'll explain it.
So
sales, you sell a thousanddollars, what do you have?
At a and, and if you're do, you'vegotta, you've gotta, you've gotta,
uh, you gotta go to the job.
You gotta sell the job, you gottado the job and all that stuff.
(53:23):
And we're operating at a 50%gross profit for easy math.
Yeah.
That's 500 bucks.
So you got 500 bucks.
So did you, so if you sold aa thousand dollars job, did
you have a thousand dollars?
Nope.
Now, if you save a thousanddollars, what do you have?
A thousand dollars.
A thousand dollars?
Yep.
A thousand dollars.
It's doubling your money.
Every dollar you spend, every dollaryou save is like, is like $2 of sales.
(53:47):
Now, every dollar you save in adepartment that is operating at 70% gross
profit is way more than uh, a dollar.
It's like $3.
It's crazy.
Now you cannot save yourself intoprofitability, but you can save
yourself into another tax bracket.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Definitely you can do that.
You can't, holy
Sid (54:10):
shit, that is tweetable.
Uh, Tim, you can't saveyourself into profitability.
But if you're profitable and youstart saving some money, you can save
yourself into another tax bracket.
That's how you make some real money is.
Looking at your p and l and saving$200,000 in expenses, variable overhead or
(54:31):
fixed overhead, or a combination of both.
'cause then you don't have tosell $450,000 worth of work.
You just do the same amount ofwork with the same amount of
hours, with the same uh, people.
You're just saving the expenses.
There we go.
So there's, there's our rant on incentiveprograms and, and as somo as that is,
(54:56):
you know, we didn't, I mean, Keith didbring in the Harvard Business Review.
I mean, this is justour experience with it.
Um, this is, this is like rubbermeets the road, real nuts and bolts
experience with incentive programs.
Um, and so.
Uh, you know, I, I feel like it's,I feel like it's pretty good advice.
(55:17):
I, I, and, and I give thiskind of advice all the time.
Uh.
Keith mentioned the guys in my peergroup and, and we've, we've had
tons of discussions about this.
Why do you wanna do it?
You're, you're trying to get everyonerowing in the same direction and in
me, as the leader, I've gotta identifywhat are the areas that are gonna
make the biggest differences, andhow do I keep people focused on that?
(55:40):
Then also, how do I line them upwith what's in it for them, the
company and all of our futures?
When do I do that?
I do it when I've got somepretty good systems in place.
I know what success looks like and Iprobably have some help in implementing
and managing that process so I don't messit up because if you start something, you
(56:02):
damn well better be able to be consistentwith it or you're gonna lose all of
that, uh, leadership capital you, youbuilt up over the last couple of years.
And then how do you set it up?
Um, it just needs to bewin-win, so the company wins.
First, and then the team member wins.
And it's gotta be balancedwhere it can't be manipulated.
(56:23):
Um, and if you, you followthose three steps, I think
you're gonna be in good shape.
Keith, any final thoughts,questions, comments, concerns?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
The Harvard Business Review also said
Sid (56:40):
he's been hanging out with scientists and, and, uh, all these people.
The
Speaker 2 (56:46):
number one downfall of any incentive plan is the follow through.
Sid (56:54):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
So be sure that you can follow through.
It's so important withwhat you come up with.
Sid (57:01):
It's so important to you.
Entrepreneurs talking, I'm talking to
Speaker 2 (57:05):
myself too.
Well, yeah, that's the, that's the number.
I think that's a, a big problem just in.
In new business anyway.
Yeah, just follow through.
Sid (57:14):
Well, we start something 'cause we had an idea.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Yeah.
Sid (57:17):
And we got like struck with the, the bug and let's just go do it.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yep.
Sid (57:21):
Same thing with incentive program.
Yeah.
It sounds like the right idea.
I see all the upsides, all the benefits.
I, I did not think about how I'mgoing to execute it and stay and,
and, and follow through with it.
That's why I'm always like,you gotta have someone.
Yeah, we're, we're implementingsome, some new incentive plans.
And my first question is, cool.
Who's gonna do that?
(57:43):
Because everyone will come with you toan come with, come to you with an idea.
Man, I think we ought to do this.
Yeah, that's great.
Who's gonna do it?
Who's gonna manage it?
Oh, well I assumed you would.
Well, that's a terrible mistake.
Do you know me?
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm, that's, no, I'm not doing that.
Let's, let's think, let'sthink a little bit deeper.
Who's gonna do that?
(58:04):
You know, who's reallysuper organized on our team?
Okay.
Looks like it's gonna be Jamie.
Excellent.
Jamie, you got one more thing to do.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Yeah.
I asked, I asked that w this week.
I had somebody come on myteam and say, you should do.
I love it.
I love
Sid (58:22):
the You should.
Yeah.
And I'm like.
Really, although you're pretty, you'repretty big on You should do this.
I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm like, well, I've
Speaker 2 (58:31):
learned to turn it back.
Sid (58:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
So, oh, good times.
Let us know if you successfully,I hope we've not scared.
Scared you out.
No, you're doing great.
Implementing incentive.
They're great.
They're definitely good.
Yeah.
So let us know if you start one.
Yeah.
And let us know how it turns out.
Hey, you know who can helpyou with incentive plans?
Who's that?
Um, our sponsors.
Um, C two Wealth.
(58:57):
Oh, okay.
If you're at the stage where youneed to add some real incentives
to your organization, they do that.
Like health benefits?
Health benefits, yeah.
Like some, you know, thatis definitely an incentive.
Plan.
401k, that's definitely a set plan.
Your match, you gotta a term match.
A match, yeah.
Whatever they can help and you know whocan help tell you if it's a good idea
(59:19):
for you to do it well, well, C two L canimplement it, but then Johnny Barranco
can tell you if it's a good idea.
That's a good point.
And you're ready for it.
Sid (59:26):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Yep.
He can definitely help.
Thanks everyone.
I'm out.
Yep.
Out.
Peace.
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