The One Where We Talk About Sandwiches - PC105

This week, the boys talked about AI generated music in the classroom and sandwiches. Jeff also had a very important public service announcement.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's Partial Credit episode 105, and this week we're arguing about AI-generated music.
Hit it!

(00:30):
So the first time I heard that music was when we recorded the last episode.
yeah, after we recorded it, when I went to listen to it, was like Dottie had inserted newmusic.
Again, partial credit is not a democracy.
Whoever's editing basically makes all the calls.
And...
say as the former editor, as a former editor, am um so happy that Donnie is editing and Idon't care if he plays music.

(01:00):
It was just interesting.
never had, we had a conversation.
so many, we could have had a conversation.
There's so many options for music right now.
Like Donnie and I love the Bill Simmons podcast that they played Pearl Jam at thebeginning.
And obviously we can't steal that, right?
Exactly.
Play 2.
It's great.
It's fantastic.
um So I was like, Donnie, why don't we just go on like, Suno, for those of who are notfamiliar with Suno, Suno is a website that allows you to put in a prompt and create

(01:30):
AI-generated music.
And that led to an interesting conversation.
So we wanted something like that.
We wanted like a Pearl Jam style intro about...
yet we got so much more.
So, Donnie, would you like to play a clip from Classroom Rebels, is Jeff and I, it's ourunofficial theme song of the Partial Credit Podcast.

(01:53):
Well, first I'm gonna play the one that I asked it to make, which was this lovely tunethat's called Wandering.
This is, for an instrumental.
It's just called Wandering Roads.
I don't hate it.
Here come the drums.

(02:14):
It's very podcasty.
It's very podcast.
if we start going with this, I would have no problem.
The prompt that we used, the prompt that I used to create, on Suno, to create theGrunstall song was that a Grunstall song with a driving beat that should be used as the
intro music for a podcast hosted by three educators, Jeff, Donnie and Jesse, the podcastmixes education, pop culture and shenanigans.

(02:41):
That's all.
So here's what we're going to do.
our appeal to the people, yes.
partial credit in it.
I should have mentioned the name of the podcast.
didn't actually, so that's not in the system.
We're not training the models.
So here's what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna play this for about, let's say 20 seconds.
And then Jesse, I'm gonna pause it and let you read the lyrics.
Sure.

(03:01):
going say, pay keen attention to the lyrics.
Okay, so this is...
need to...
Okay, we can't, this is, okay, let's get at least through the first verse, that will...
this is Classroom Rebels, which is our new According to Jesse theme song.

(03:46):
I want you to read those lyrics for us, Jesse.
What do we got there?
Every time I hear it, I love it more.
All right.
The verse was, minds collide like chalk on the board.
Jeff's got the facts, but the jokes can't be ignored.
Which we know is not true.
They actually can't be ignored.
Right.
Donnie drops pop culture like a hammer on glass.

(04:07):
Jesse's got the edge, keeps it sharp, keeps it fast.
The chorus is classroom rebels, pencils in the air, breaking down the walls like we justdon't care.
Education, pop culture, chaos ensues.
Jeff, Donnie, Jesse, bring in the news.
Huey Lewis?

(04:33):
I actually haven't listened to this whole thing yet because Jesse literally made this 30seconds before he recorded.
there a bridge?
gosh, I'm going to try to find the bridge.

(05:02):
Wow.
sure that Alice in Chains didn't record this in the 90s?
I'm not sure if that...
that could have been straight out of The Matrix, right?
Isn't that what Neo listens to as he flies up from the phone booth in the end?
Donnie, what is your issue with this type of content?
Because again, kids have access to this, or everyone has access to this.
um But.

(05:26):
you have to pay for, even though it's AI, have to pay for commercial access to it.
Like if we did choose this.
right.
Luckily, we are making no money on the Partial Credit Podcast, so therefore, it is notcommercially used.
Yeah.
So all the songs that we've used for our intro and outro have literally been just the freeones that come with our podcast app.

(05:46):
So, so here's the thing.
So, Suno it's, it's cool, right?
It really is like, you know, the, the AI music generation has come a long way.
Like I remember five or six years ago, there's some AI app that came out.
where it was like you could describe a genre of music, even like an artist, and you couldsay, like, make it sound like this or like try to do like some mashups, like make a, you

(06:10):
know, Bob Dylan folk song with a little bit of Wu Tang mixed in it.
It like create a, it wouldn't...
Donnie has done when he was in high school.
Yeah, sure.
um I asked to do it, but it didn't have like words yet because AI hadn't been come thatprevalent.
It could do like a beat, right?
Kind of mix that in there.
m But you know, with this, like it's got the lyrics, it's got the person singing, it's gota weird, strange sounding guitar, which we're just going to roll with.

(06:37):
And I think it's cool, but I do know like on Spotify, there's like people that are justchurning out dozens of AI songs a day.
and they're just putting it as like stuff that they're actually recording on their own.
And like they're making a lot of money off of it.
I know that like real musicians are not happy about it.

(06:58):
wait, wait, wait.
This sounds a lot like the argument against Howard Jones in the 80s.
Isn't he the guy who owns those hotel chains?
that's Howard Johnson.
I'm sorry.
fault.
Grape mac and cheese.
Howard Jones had, but everybody made my joke is like, not a joke, but whenever you usedelectronic music when it first started, because I'm old, I mean, it was thought of as not

(07:21):
music.
Wait, things can only get better.
And...
Don't try to live your life in one day.
Wasn't that hard?
Yes, yes.
Yes.
is to blame at karaoke, that's a good one.
Are listing off rules that he had?
I was trying to figure out what you were saying there.
This is new stuff for me.

(07:42):
like, you know, as things evolve, I think you're being a little curmudgeoning becausemusic is music, whether it was created, you know, on a synthesizer.
I agree with you.
What?
that come out.
If you read a book that you're like, my gosh, this is awesome, this author is incredible,what a story to tell.

(08:02):
But then you learn six months later that he actually is using AI to write the whole thing.
It's going to change your perception on the book.
Same thing with music, right?
Well, to me, uh I used to say, I never liked country music.
My father and mother listened to it all the time.
No, no, no.
Yeah, and my argument, and I think that when you're younger, everything was black andwhite.

(08:26):
was like, country music sucks.
And my argument was always that it had no soul, that it was a racket, right?
No, no, no.
My point, no, no, but my point being that like...
My argument was always it had no soul because it was like a whole Johnny Bravo thing wheresomeone wrote the music, somebody played the music, but music is music.
I remember having a conversation with Melissa from Cincinnati when, uh and she was makinga case for it when we were in Staten Island, Jesse, going to take a picture of the Wu-Tang

(08:55):
mural.
ah But I digress on that.
I agree with you, Donnie, but I, so I would argue that that music actually has no soul.
ah And country music does, by the way.
My apologies to the country music lovers.
But um I feel you.
But it's still music.

(09:16):
Yeah, still music.
We may not like it, but it's still music.
And that story we would be really annoyed with is still a story.
Now I'll tell you the one classroom application that I've come up with for like, again, Iknow Cino is kind of like the big one right now, but there's gonna be more, right?
As soon as other companies figure out how to do this, there's gonna be more.

(09:39):
What?
Yeah, something like that.
the, oh, you're making a terrible, terrible pun.
That was great.
But that was in the song.
That was in the song, so we're The one classroom application I've found.
Thought of this over the summer.
We can hear that, Jesse.
But the one classic application that I found, oh, did you write another song?

(10:02):
Did you ask A.I.
write another one?
I can't wait.
is called the partial credit anthem.
But we're gonna listen to it together live on the air for the first time.
it's great.
So you know how in school, students a lot of times, especially in elementary school,you'll have them write poetry, like those I am poems, like, you elementary school, like I
am, yeah, like your cross the poems or I try to avoid stuff with names, but you know,students write a poem, especially if it's one that doesn't rhyme or does rhyme maybe.

(10:32):
And, know, you wanted to bring an extra, uh a little bit extra oomph to the poem in Sunonow.
you can actually upload custom lyrics, right?
That's an option, it's a free option that you have.
So you could take the kid's as long as doesn't have their name in it, and copy and pastethat into Suno and say, hey, what kind of music do you want this to sound like?

(10:54):
90s country, sure.
80s hip hop, sure.
Put that in there.
And then it'll do the whole thing.
You can even ask it to repeat it a couple of times if it's not super long.
just a classroom application to take an AI song generator.
and figuring out how you can bring that into the classroom.
and take the lyrics into a text to image AI generator and get your album cover.

(11:18):
Do it all.
of AI generation, I feel like there's two ways we can go with this combo.
The first thing though I did want to talk about was um it's not just audio that we've beenmessing with.
uh I feel like Donnie puts out VO uh videos like on the regular.
In fact, there was one from a recent trip the three of us took to San Francisco where, uhJeffrey Heil, I never knew you knew how to tap dance the way.

(11:47):
this VO3 is not good for audio, for podcasts.
So we kind of do need to share what that is.
So Google, I guess about a month and a half ago or right before ISTE, so sort of likestarted June, ended June, um they made VO3, V-E-O-3 public, right?
And it exists within Google Gemini.
um But basically what it is, it is their AI video creator.

(12:13):
um And there's other AI video creators that exist.
There's apps and things that you can pay for.
But what Veo does is it is probably the best as far as not only like making video, butalso adding sound effects and voice and tap dancing and any, anything that you want.
And it even has a really, really solid animate from video or sorry, animate from photofrom image.

(12:39):
um And so I had some fun.
with Jeff because I don't remember what Jeff was taking a picture of something.
Of you, you dork.
It was...
don't know if the audience, we definitely talked about this in the past, but one of thethings Donnie and I like to do is uh when Jeff is trying to take a photo, it's a process.

(12:59):
There's a whole thing and there's a pose, it's like a meeting pose he does where he's likeon the ground and his butt's pointing up in the air.
So we have a whole collection of pictures of Jeff taking pictures.
Yeah, well, so what I was trying to do, because I knew it was coming, right?
I'm like, God, he's got the camera out, he's looking at the wall behind me.

(13:20):
So my plan was I was gonna take like 30 photos of him and then turn it into like a stopmotion kind of thing of him like going down, taking the picture and then come back up.
But one of the pictures, like it looked like he was in the middle of like an 80s danceroutine.
Like it was fantastic.
Yeah, he was like Gene Kelly, which I know,

(13:43):
what were you doing, Jeff?
well, was Donnie and Jason Smith and I at your hotel and you had gone up.
Yes.
The Clancy.
We, yeah.
Because so we were leaving and then there was that cool, actually Donnie made a startthing at the mural thing, the peg thing.

(14:03):
And so I said, let's, and they had chairs.
So I'm like, sit in the chair.
want to take a picture of us.
So then on my phone, have a little, um, tripod attached.
Yeah.
So I, but I mean, I set the timer and then, so it was me like getting the phone down andready and then doing the 10 second.
So I'm running from phone 10 second timer too.

(14:26):
So I'm completely helpless and at the whim of Donnie's ridiculousness.
So he took the picture.
no.
And, and, you know, it's funny is I just was texting with Martin today.
And uh I think he thinks that's a real thing.
He's like, I thought I was the most interesting man in the world.
I had no idea you could tap dance.
because it looks like legitimately, it was very hard to spot anything.

(14:54):
Cause I was looking very closely and actually first glance, oh, was that, our friend MaryEllen actually posted something recently where she was at Google and it took a still of
her and then had her do salsa dancing.
And I was like, or disco dancing, something.
But either way, it was like, wow, that's really good, these videos.

(15:16):
Jeff and I, one of the first days, Donnie, when you were posting these for the first time,Jeff and I actually went to a Dodger game in LA.
uh We were like parked in the middle of nowhere.
We had it.
We like described us and said, make a video of us trying to find our car in the parkinglot of Dodger Stadium afterwards.
And it was like really funny.
It was good.
It's yeah, and you know, these videos are only eight seconds long.

(15:37):
um So this video of Jeff, sorry, this picture of Jeff like doing his best Gene Kelly orwhatever, I uploaded the video and asked it to uh make him tap dance.
um And it was good, Jeff, you had some moves, like you've been holding out on us.
was a tap dancer as a young child.

(16:00):
it must have been like in White Christmas, right?
Weren't you one of the extras for that?
Well, it was actually a show called So You Think You Can Tap.
yeah.
tell me.
Go on.
I can't wait for this one.
Go.
Yeah, just go.
It turns out it was about beer kegs, but my mom put my shoes on and took me there anywayand I danced.

(16:24):
I danced like there was no tomorrow and apparently uh tomorrow came too early for mebecause I was not chosen.
But you've been playing around in VO3 too, VO3 as well.
Probably shouldn't be confusing there, but yeah.
also?
Vio3-2-3 also?
So Jeff, what are you doing in it?

(16:46):
just messing around with like Donnie.
A friend of mine, her daughter just graduated from Tuskegee and now she's going to go to adoctoral program at Penn State.
And so she was trying to get this image of her daughter like going from golden ah tiger,golden tigers, Tuskegee, to a Nittany lion.

(17:07):
So I was trying to get the lions from the logos to come to life.
It was a little creepy.
I never really got it right.
um
lion is terrifying.
It is a scary mascot.
Yes.
So I never got it to work, but those kind of things were like you and Donnie and I weretalking about animating like murals and things like that.
For that kind of stuff, yeah, it's a lot easier.

(17:30):
Don't try to get things to come out, especially multiple things coming out of.
one of the things, and so we've talked a little bit about that we were all togetherrecently in San Francisco for the ACE, the Adobe Creative Educator Innovator Summit.
um All of us were in attendance.
uh I'm an employee, so I had to be there.

(17:50):
Ed, Jeff, Dottie are innovators, which we're really excited about.
But it got me thinking about using, like we do a lot of that text to image work withstudents, and there's a lot of classroom applications for that.
but getting them to then bring those stills to life.
Right, going beyond just the image.
Yeah.

(18:10):
I mean, I was even thinking like, you know, I just kind of playing around this afternoon.
Um, that's what I was doing at my school.
I mean, I did not like, I don't live 30 minutes from my school.
My school was right down the street.
So had some time this afternoon, went down to school and was like taking pictures of someof like the murals of Eagles where the Eagles up on the wall.
And I was like, Hey, bring this to life or make it look like the Eagle on the wall, liketurns and like faces.

(18:35):
you know, the camera and screeches.
I was trying to think of like promo videos, like the basketball team.
And then they had a bunch of like artwork up, like student artwork, like my son did onethat's up there.
that cubus looking one was really cool.
It's like, yeah, yeah, That was very cool.
had a few years ago.
But, um, but anyway, just taking a picture of that and you know, this eagle looks like athird grader did it, right?

(19:01):
So it's very, very blocky and very, you know, whatever, but it's still recognized that itwas an eagle and made like just the student animation move.
It was quite cool.
Now I wanted to get both of your thoughts and feedback and just kind of hear about some ofthe things that people were talking about at the Innovator Summit, but I did want to let
the audience know while we were out there, the three of us had the good fortune to be ableto participate in an episode of Adobe Live, which is a YouTube channel that has 3 million

(19:33):
subscribers.
We actually did a live episode, all three of us in the studio together, where we sharedthe top 10
secrets the teachers should know about using Adobe Express like tips and tricks, whichwere all sourced from the Adobe Creative Educator Innovator community.
We then put out a vote to the Internet to all of the people watching and um we said wewould announce the winner on this week's episode of partial credit and I am proud to

(20:05):
announce the winner.
of Adobe Live Challenge.
we have a drum roll?
Donnie, are you that set?
we do.
Okay, good.
The winner is Donnie Pearcey.
Donnie Pearcey won by one vote.
Oh
you in your home state, Jeff.
How does that feel?
The internet is Jeff's home state.

(20:26):
He's the Laudable Man.
We are in Calif-
to one?
Let's just be clear about that.
two to one.
So I'm fairly certain he voted for himself.
pretty sure that Doddy broke the tie for himself.
No, I did not vote for me.
I didn't vote.
a sign in on this form, which now I regret, but you know.
I could have had a lot of fun with that then.
Dang, I should have made like an AI bot that just went and like voted every 30 seconds.

(20:51):
Just keep it going.
to watch, and actually I'll put it on the, when we post this episode, I'll post the linkon the partial.credit website to that episode of Adobe Live.
It's definitely worth checking out.
um The comments during the live episode were interesting.
Someone was like, I'm here for the chaotic energy.

(21:11):
What is even happening right now?
Well, the best part was the live chat, right?
Because we had a couple dozen people in there.
They're just saying, this is cool, whatever.
But my favorite part, Jesse, was when your family started the chime in and just basicallystarted to make fun of you and heckle.
It was fantastic.
It was great.
Yeah.
This setup, mean, we have done some pretty cool recording in different spaces, right?

(21:34):
Like when we did the um Great Plains Summit, we had that great setup for recording theepisode.
This was like next level.
I mean, uh if you check it out, you'll see the three of us sitting next to each other andbehind us, you'll see the display.
And Donnie had an invisible magic button that he would use to press that would allow himto change from one laptop to the other.

(21:55):
It was really high tech stuff.
almost like Adobe's a billion dollar corporation that can afford stuff like that.
So two things I want to say about that, because it was a lot of fun.
First, um having a green room beforehand, that was really fun.
They had like little snacks and everything in the room.
may not have taken pictures of each other afterward in the green room.

(22:19):
Yes.
I specifically...
but I'm gonna go back to record in September, so I will make sure to get my photo thereafter.
time, I did want my green M &Ms, but that was kind of on these stickers and snacks andeverything.
I I felt like I was living large.
Donnie was gonna be like uh Nigel Tufnell in Spinal Tap and be like, what is this?
I don't want this.
The bread doesn't even fit the...
Smell the glove.

(22:39):
Whatever.
That was your album, in case you forget.
I'm just making sure.
I don't know.
Intravenous Demilo.
Ha ha!
Oh, it's so funny.
man.
And, uh, it was just fun to do.
I didn't realize though, like when we recording, cause I wore, you know, I had like apledge.

(23:03):
had, we had those lovely Adobe jerseys on, but then underneath it, I had my green t-shirtfrom my elementary school.
Um, and there was like a green screen behind us, which I was so tempted to do the hi, I'min Delaware, like from Wayne's world thing.
But if you go watch the video, like right below my neck, there's always like this.

(23:23):
Yeah, because it was kind of show, I was trying to do like the cool thing with thebaseball jersey and like unbutton it just a little bit at the top.
But there's like a one inch by two inch triangle.
That's always like, yeah, this is showing like what's directly behind us.
Yeah, but that was fun.
I definitely enjoyed that.
um
Donnie, don't wear green when there's a green screen.

(23:43):
really want to do like the floating head thing.
just felt like I've lived out my dream as a weatherman.
He wants to be zombie.
What?
Jason Giambi?
No, John B.
The Genie from Pee-wee's Playhouse, nevermind.
um Jeff, what were some of your takeaways from the Innovator Summit?

(24:10):
that Ubers are really expensive in San Francisco.
It was like, you know, was like, we, Donnie and I did take away Mo.
The last, our last ride together was in a way Mo.
I did not enjoy the Waymo experience, if I'm being totally honest with you.
For those of you who are not familiar with Waymo, it is the driverless car situation theyhave there in San Francisco.

(24:33):
I did it once.
I do not know if I will do it again.
When I was stuck in San Francisco last year, I did it for the first time and it was, Iliterally took a 500 foot Waymo.
Like I called and then we were down by the pier and I asked it to take me like from oneblock to the next.
Like I was just like, I think it cost me like $12 just to do that.

(24:56):
The Waymo stuff's cool, it's like a driverless car.
You know, and it's one of those things, it's like everybody who rides one.
I've been sure they're just filming it the whole time.
Like I've made videos, I sending it to my kids.
uh It was fun, but I did have to listen to Jeff continually making Waymo puns the wholetime that we were in the Waymo together.

(25:20):
I know.
to dinner with some of the other innovators after the photo walk in Haight.
We went out and we had a lot of, no, no, Yeah, we did a really fun photo walk and then wewent for some really nice Indian food.

(25:40):
Robin and Sean and some very nice man that I don't remember his name.
That's a fun crew.
But the whole time that we were there, for some reason, everybody kept making Waymo puns.
Like, boy, this dinner would be Waymo cheaper if Donnie didn't get the rice.
to Jeff being waymo funny than Donnie, because he made fun of me.

(26:03):
And then it started this waymo wave of replies.
And even straight man Mike there, who didn't really know any of us, started throwing themout.
It was pretty funny.
Yeah, he's like, well, you look way more mad than Jeff right now.
It was just like, stop.
Like, what am I doing?
Made me so angry.
I mean, not real angry, but it was fun.

(26:25):
it's always fun getting together with other creative people.
And for us having done this for so long, it's always like a reunion, no matter where weare, hanging out with people.
And Donnie last year just talked me into flying into San Francisco and driving to andtaking an Uber to San Jose.
And then somehow Donnie managed to like...

(26:49):
take down the entire air traffic control system for like five days so he could have asecond vacation.
Took him five days.
Took him five days.
He missed Ramona's birth.
no I didn't.
Ramona's born in March.
No.
Whose birthday did you miss?
You missed a party.
I thought it was your daughter's birthday.
missed a training that I was doing in New Mexico by day, but I was supposed to get home onFriday the 20th or something, don't remember what was, but I was supposed to get home, I

(27:18):
supposed to leave that Friday morning and then did not end up getting home until Tuesdayafternoon.
Maybe it was that time when everything at Delta shut down.
Remember that?
yeah.
that time.
I've lived that like two or three times in the past year.
So I don't even know what that time is anymore.
Oh, I remember.
Yeah, it was terrible.
um But ah I just remember every morning I woke up and I thought I had a flight and thennope, canceled.

(27:45):
And I called, you know, and even they put me through and they're like, no, that one'scanceled.
We can put you on another one in two days.
I'm like.
says a lot that Donnie came back for another year, even after that experience.
So that's why.
instead of flying into SFO, he flew into San Jose.
So he would create even more, you keep changing your story.

(28:06):
but then you're paying more for like the transportation to get to San Francisco.
it was still cheaper, even with that I calculated it.
No, you did not.
You only calculate, you know how it got cheaper for you because you may be paid for allthe Ubers.
That's how it got cheaper for you.
the distribution of Uber.
Yeah, but I heard that there was like 14 to 2.

(28:29):
That's what I heard.
The word on the street, Donnie.
word of the...
how stupid this is?
I paid Waymo than Donnie.
Including the Waymo.
Including the Waymo.
No, I did.
I happily paid for the Waymo.
But I would have been happy if you had paid for a few Mo of the Ubers.

(28:54):
Well listen, I would have got, you know the little green scooters that you can pay for bythe minute?
You know those things?
I don't know you call them.
you have to understand guys that Donnie Peirce would leave his family if it meant he couldget a free ride somewhere.
Because the very first morning we were supposed to go somewhere and I'm in the hotel likethinking he, I am so, and I am.

(29:16):
And then Donnie just disappeared.
Donnie just disappeared.
I text him, like, where are you?
He's like, I thought you were gonna take a while.
And I was literally downstairs waiting and he was just gone.
Because he got a free ride.
right.
I'm telling the story right.
Yes.
So let's tell what really happened.
So Jeff was sleeping in.
You know, I woke up early because I always do.

(29:37):
And, uh...
two were talking and then he fell asleep while you were talking.
No, no, no, no, no.
I did not.
no, no, no.
First off, it's like three o'clock and we're trying to plan out, were we planning again?
The session, the Adobe Live.
And we're planning it out.
And I look over Jeff and his eyes are closed and he's got his hands on the top of hishead.

(29:59):
And I felt like his mom.
I was like, Jeff, go to bed.
Jeff had just flown in from the Philippines and boy were his arms tired, but he is...
He chose that.
He chose to come back on that day.
He could have come back two days beforehand.
up when he went and he just, you know when he left?
When I was in the shower.

(30:20):
So clearly I was up because I was in the shower and he left.
So don't tell me I was asleep.
I was up and I was in the shower.
we were on the couch.
You've even forgotten this part when we were planning this stuff out.
You fell asleep.
in the lobby and I sent him to the bed.
I sent him to the, said, Jeff, go to bed.

(30:40):
And no, it was not Jeff.
It was not.
No, no, see.
me the first day, day one.
will say this, when I saw Donnie, the first thing Donnie said to me was, Jeff is gonna bemad at me because I left him at the hotel.
You did say that.
knew!
because I knew you would be because it was 430.

(31:01):
Sorry, it was like 428.
We were supposed to leave at 430.
I go up to the room, you're passed out.
You got like drool coming out of the side of your mouth.
And you're like, no, this is all true.
You just were on Philippines time and exhausted.
And you're like, I'm going to go take a shower.
And I said, Jeff, we got to leave in two minutes.

(31:22):
Like I did.
So I went down.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Most importantly, Donnie got a free ride and left me in the hotel.
did you guys have extra towels?
thank God.
Yes, we had plenty of tasks.
But no lock on the bathroom.

(31:42):
Did you notice that?
That was a little strange.
Like no locks on the bathroom at all.
Well, it's okay because he was showering when you weren't around because you left himthere.
So it's not a big deal.
Yeah, it's not a big deal.
towards the shower, he would run out.
No, he was like zonked out.
He fell asleep twice.
You don't even remember like planning the Adobe Live on the couch in the lobby because youfell asleep.

(32:03):
of like, wait, this is kind of like magnet chat from the last episode.
I feel like now we're stepping in, the listening audience is done with this conversation.
So I wanna switch gears because something fun is happening right now in Jeff's neck of thewoods.
It's Comic-Con.
So Comic-Con's happening, but actually I was thinking of Jeff the other day because...

(32:26):
uh
Comic Con in New York happens in October, but they just released the list of people whoare gonna be there taking photo ops and things like that.
And wouldn't you know it, but none other than Jeff's old buddy, Peter Weller, is going tobe there taking pictures.
RoboCop in the flesh will be taking pictures of people.

(32:50):
And no one knows Peter Weller better than our good friend, Buck Del Monte.
No.
I used that money for Martin Sheen, but you know.
again?
No, I will not tell this story again.
It's a good story though.
It is a very good story.
It's fun.
ever seen Jeff's keynote, you know the story, but he has a long, rich history withRobocop.

(33:12):
Yes.
No, but, but Comic-Con, the real Comic-Con, unlike the one in New York is in San Diego.
And the thing that I will say is, I'm not, these two like comics and stuff.
Donnie wouldn't really go to a Comic-Con, but Jesse spends half his, well, nor youwouldn't spend the kind of money it would take to go to Comic-Con.

(33:35):
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
You would go if it was offered to you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
of ignorance around this stuff, uh he was shown a picture of the thing and said, I don'teven watch that show.
So that is where we are.
Yes.
And no, no, and I can get an educator pass too.
It's like a

(33:55):
isn't that crazy?
He lives two blocks away.
I don't care.
What's funny this year, so last year, no, you just can't walk up and say I'm a teacher,give me a free pass.
You have to go through this thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I just don't bother with
there was someone who built a Galactus costume.

(34:16):
They showed this on Facebook and it was amazing.
It was huge.
It was like a dude in the stilts, like in the...
if this is your thing and you can't get tickets, it is still worth coming to San Diego tosee it because they skin all of the buildings with things and then all around the the

(34:37):
area.
Like there's lots of free things to do.
Like they Paramount will set up last year.
They had the restaurant, the Bears restaurant set up and they had like the I think thatthe new Dexter series they had like a.
trailer set up, Google sat up last year.
I didn't walk around this year so much.
was really, really crowded.
Google sat up a Ferris wheel in the middle of Martin Luther King Promenade.

(35:00):
But just the people watching alone is super crazy and super fun.
And last year, because of the Wolverine versus Deadpool, uh they had a showing atComic-Con.
And then they had commissioned this insane uh drone show.

(35:21):
drone shows are cool.
over Petco Park, and I live uh in a complex that has a building that overlooks Petco Park.
So I was just, and there were rumors that they were gonna do it on Friday night.
And somebody, I don't know why they even allow us, in our complex, think there's like 300units, you're allowed to rent out the roof for free.

(35:44):
You can just say, wanna reserve, somebody reserved the roof thinking they were gonna haveaccess to this free,
uh laser show and it never happened.
I know, it never happened.
So I would have been sad not to have seen that but...
So missed opportunity on Jeff's part.
Jeff does not take advantage.
But the big takeaway here for listeners is any of these Comic Cons have educator passesthat you can apply for if you live nearby.

(36:10):
And they have free days where you can go with the pass.
I you don't have to pay.
If you want it for like multiple days, you'll pay like a discount to price.
But you can go for free.
They have educator panels.
They have all these different opportunities.
actually, our eSports team from Monarch, my school, had a panel at Comic Con.
a thing?
You didn't even go to see your scenes.

(36:31):
Yeah, that's great.
You are a terrible person and teacher for not going to support these kids.
students.
They weren't my students.
But I would say the other thing that if you are a Comic-Con person, anytime you come toSan Diego, and I told Jesse this and I realized I didn't tell him when he was here, we

(36:54):
have in Valbua Park, which is this awesome park that was made for the, no, it was made forthe 1918 Pan Pacific exhibition, but it's second only to the Smithsonian for museums and
they,
tore down the sports museum and they, about four or five years ago, they built a Comic-Conmuseum.
So there's literally a Comic-Con museum in Valpolo Park.

(37:20):
The more you know.
now, but if it wins next week, could force a tie for first.
Well, Jeff, I'm just saying this.
did have uh at the Adobe thing that we went to, you did have a costume that you could haveworn to Comic-Con.
You did have the Boogie Nights old Dirk Diggler look going.
that is very true.

(37:40):
I thought I pulled that off quite well.
Yeah, you totally could have done that even to the side.
Walking out like a margarita or whatever, do the whole thing.
Senior Dirk.
Love it.
What's next?
I want to wait.
Can I do my quick uh public service announcement?

(38:02):
Wait.
This is a very important public service announcement from Jeffrey Heil.
So I came home from San Francisco and no, no, this is no, feel free.
I came home.
even got an earlier flight.
Donnie can attest to that because I missed my dog.

(38:24):
I really missed my dog.
I missed my daughter too, who was watching the dog, Lily.
I'm sorry if you're listening to this, but, um, so I took an earlier flight and I got homeat like eight 30 and I had texted Lily and I said, I'm going to come get Diego.
And she said, OK.
So literally, like 9.30, I go get my dog from her place.

(38:44):
And she's like, this morning, he's tilting his head.
Like, his equilibrium was off.
And he's like scratching at it and pawing at it.
And um that's like the signs of an ear infection.
So I'm like, all worried.
I call the doctor.
And they can't get him in that day.
And they're like, well, as long as he's eating and drinking, he can make it to Tuesday.
So I had a Tuesday appointment.

(39:05):
And I get there Tuesday and I live downtown in an urban area.
So when I walk him, we just walk around downtown.
I worry more about him running into poop and vomit on the ground than I do anything else.
he, uh, at Lily's house, he apparently went traipsing around the bushes and I get to the,to the, dogs do.

(39:27):
Yeah.
So I, I get, I get to the vet and the vet, I said, he's doing this and this and, he'slike, well,
Is he by, have you had him in grass areas with fox tails?
I'm like, no, I not lived downtown, but he was at my daughter's house.
And he said, well, he's showing signs, blah, blah, blah.
So fox tails are this, these barbed things that are in tall grass and they can get indog's noses and ears and they catch themselves.

(39:55):
Long story short, he was really, he saw a foreign body in his ear.
And so he had to extract this gigantic fox tail that was stuck in Diego's ear.
So if you are a pet owner, stay away from, I don't know why that needed that.
However, if you are a pet owner and you love your animals, be very mindful of, becauseliterally he had to be under anesthesia.

(40:23):
what would have been like $100 for ear medicine was like $500 procedure, worth every pennybecause I pick him up and he was groggy that night, but he's totally fine now.
Crazy though.
Do have pet insurance?
That's a real question.
We don't for Jack, but I mean, every year we're like, why don't we have this?
Because every time it's like in your infection, it's like, he needs this now, he's runningthe fever.

(40:49):
And it's like, I'm sure if you did the math, it's cheaper.
every year it goes up.
Right now I pay like $400, $400, $40 a month plus for his pet insurance.
And I wouldn't use it in this case because it's more like a major medical kind of thing.
for like, if he had to have, surgeries are ridiculous for pets.
Like they could be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

(41:11):
But anyway, there you are.
Watch out for fox tails.
And Veggie Tales.
public service announcement from Jeffrey Howell.
Okay, so it wouldn't be an episode of Partial Credit without our favorite segment,America's favorite segment.

(41:34):
And no, it's not South Park.
It's something useless that Donnie Piercy found online.
All right, so this one feels like it's a return to glory for me.
um
I just saw the name posted into the the dock and I'm like, OK, I'm here for this.
I don't even know what this is yet.

(41:54):
I just said I don't know what it is.
And as soon as I opened it, I'm like, of course, that's what it was.
again, if you, uh you know, I'm a consumer of all things silly on the internet.
And I found this one.
It's called rotating sandwiches.com.
um
never going to guess what's on this website.
You're never going to guess.

(42:16):
So it's a WordPress site if you want to know, because they didn't change the favicon upthe top.
But if you go to rotatingsandwiches.com um and you go there, and it is literally just acollection of all, at least there's several hundred on here, of just rotating sandwiches
from half-eaten.

(42:36):
You know what?
Me too.
These are actually high-res images.
I like they included the ice cream sandwich.
uh Jeff, they also included a hot dog.
a euro down here.
That looks really good.
to be had about this.
m
What is that last thing with the, no what's with the English muffin and the hot dog cut inhalf?

(42:56):
What's that, pastrami?
Jeff, there's a full hot dog if you keep going down, but I don't know if we've talkedabout it on this podcast, but Jeff and I had actually put together a, it was a little kind
of intro to a session on assessment.
And we posed the question, Jeff, what was the question?

(43:21):
This is a hot dog sandwich.
is a hot dog, sandwich.
And it was some of the fiercest debate I've ever seen happen in a room.
had people who were all quiet and meek throughout the whole training, all of a suddenyelling at people because they vehemently had an opinion on this hot dog sandwich debate.
Donnie, where do you land on this?

(43:41):
It's not a sandwich.
It's a hot dog.
It's his own thing.
That's the answer.
It's a hot dog.
It's like, if anything, it's a sub, but it's
a sub?
Yeah.
So is the sub a sandwich?
Is the sub a sandwich?
I'm looking at a website that you just provided us and there's a rotating hot dog onrotatingsandwiches.com.
So.

(44:01):
website that I found that somebody probably puts together in an hour, there is a contactemail up the top if you really want to send them a question on rotatingsandwiches.com.
at gmail.com.
I'm wondering if rotating.sandwiches was taken, so they had to add the .inquiries.

(44:22):
Probably, or maybe they have a whole domain thing, but no, it's a hot dog, it's its ownthing.
Well, I can kick you off the car right now, Jeff, this is real easy, so.
is the criteria for a sandwich?
Like how do you decide what is a sandwich and what's not?
Well, listen, know.
So like a meatball sub is it's a sub.

(44:45):
It's a submarine sandwich.
Maybe, but hot dogs its own thing.
No.
this?
How do you assess anything when you don't have criteria for evaluating whether somethingis something?
round versus tubular, that's the criteria.
It's just a hot dog.
It's its own thing.
It's not tubular.

(45:08):
Hamburger's a hamburger.
It's not a sandwich.
Not a sandwich.
Wow.
under.
OK.
As a former math teacher, I'm going to say this.
When was that?
25 years ago?
have to try to remember this.
All squares are parallelograms, but not all parallelograms are squares.

(45:30):
Right.
So couldn't all hamburgers be sandwiches but right?
No.
different logic.
No, this is not math.
This is how it is.
A hot dog is a hot dog.
A hamburger is a hamburger.
Me, I decide.
That's how.
What, you think you're better than me?
No, this is what it is.
think you're better than me?
no, to be fair, he's being consistent with his entire life.

(45:54):
Donnie's criteria trumps all criteria and it does not have to be does not have to berational.
Exactly.
He left Jeff in the hotel, but he has his own criteria.
It was not a minute, but anyway.
has their own criteria.
Criterion.
Yeah, they do.
If everyone had their own criteria for everything, then we would never be able to decide.

(46:18):
listen, stop.
Sandwich, you got two pieces of Top on each other.
So you're saying that in order for something to be a sandwich, it has to have two piecesof bread.
Yeah, but a hot dog can, if you just have the hot dog by itself, it's still a hot dog.
Right?
You can like boil the hot dog if you're holding it, it's still a hot dog.
dog meat, but my hot dog bun was cut in two, like it was like split that little piece ofbread, the bread flap, if that bread flap was broken and it was two halves of the bread,

(46:54):
the hot dog bun, then therefore it would be a sandwich.
Cause that is two separate distinct pieces of bread with the hot dog.
No, that's stupid.
It's still a hot dog.
You can't.
No, you can't do that.
It's just a hot dog.
criteria for a sandwich.
Two pieces of bread and meat.
Why are you arguing with me on this?
This is dumb.

(47:14):
there are people out there who have actually developed criteria for this.
If you were to check out the website, cubefood.com, cube rule?
He will not.
He won't because there's some rationality in there.
uh
rule.
You don't even know the website.
doesn't count.
It's cuberule.com and it was seen in the New York Times and Washington Post and it won theWebby Awards as well as something to do with the Maryland courts for fair, efficient and

(47:44):
effective justice for all.
However.
a hot dog is a taco.
No tacos, the taco like the kick.
cheese, a Reuben, a PB and J, those are traditional classic sandwiches, but the hot dogwas like, I a sandwich?
And New York, the state of New York said yes, because in, wait, in the taxpayer guidancefor sales tax purposes, they said under sandwiches, hot dogs and sausages, om buns, rolls,

(48:14):
et cetera, qualified.
It's it's a bread.
It's just a bread.
So Donnie, can I ask you something?
What is a ravioli?
What is a ravioli?
It has to...so...
According to Jeff, he's gonna say, it's actually a burrito.

(48:35):
Is what he's gonna say.
Is that what he's gonna say?
Is that where this is going?
Hmm.
Are you gonna say it's like a gyro?
a pop tart be a kind of ravioli?
No, it's a Pop-Tart.
Like you don't have to have special classifications for everything.
Like it's just a food.
So if you go to cuberule.com, this is our second website.

(48:56):
No, is a bonus website.
And they developed a way to classify food based on the starch location.
So if you would think of each food item as being like cubular, to use Jeff's terminology,um not tubular.
So like a sandwich has starch on the bottom and the top.

(49:22):
But why do you need to make this stupid classification?
Just sandwich two pieces of white bread, peanut butter jelly.
on the bottom, Jeff, what is it?
It's an open-faced sandwich.
It's toast.
Toast.
It's toast.
toast with something on it?
still toast.
Like avocado toast.
If according to our cube, if we have starch on the sides, yes, look at the, you're notlooking at the website.

(49:49):
If there is, I'm going to put this listeners, this will be on the link to this website,cuberule.com will be on the, the partial credit webpage.
But Donnie, listen to me on the.
thinks?
He thinks this is related to Cubanon.
Why is Jeff getting so close to the camera when he said that?
And why is your face all red?
is.
Hot dog, I told him it's a taco.
It's a taco.

(50:10):
No, it's not.
It's a hot dog.
You don't call like the Nathan's, ah what is it, the hot dog eating contest.
They don't call it the taco eating contest.
eating a traditional taco, but under the starch location rule, it does fall within thetaco guidelines.
listen, I love the internet, but this is the internet, it's absolute worst.

(50:32):
Like this does not need to be said.
So let me give you some examples of toast, things with starch on the bottom, pizza.
That's not toast, it's pizza!
nigiri sushi.
So like where you have the rice and then the fish on top starts on the bottom.
Right.
That's a toast.
what that was?
It was sushi.
It's not toast.
Pumpkin pie would be like a bentoast because it would have like a curve.

(50:55):
Does it come in a bento's box?
That was pretty good.
That was all right.
That was decent.
I got you, Bento.
Thank you, thank you very much.
So popular examples of tacos would be under this broad starched definition thing, the hotdog, Donny's sub sandwich.

(51:17):
It's a sub, like a meatball sub.
and a slice of pie, which is like a taco on its side.
If you turn the cube this way, the pie.
website that you are trying to use to argue with me, a piece of pie is a taco.
Just make sure that I'm picking up on that right.
Or toast.
our case.
literally should have stopped.
There was a point at which you should have stopped.

(51:40):
Why is Jeff's face all red when he's leaning that close to the camera?
Have you noticed that?
Look at his face.
Wait, is, Jeff, actually saw something to do with this website.
If there is no starch.
That's pudding.
No.
An example of a salad according to them is a steak.

(52:03):
So one more time, this is the site that you're trying to validate your arguments with meabout.
A turduckian is also a salad.
What I will say, Donnie, is this.
Okay, but what I will say is this.
Three meats.
What's important here is having criteria for assessment.

(52:24):
No, this is a stretch.
is a stupid.
from Jesse Jeff.
So I think that'll do it for another episode of Partial Credit.
Well, wait, what determines when the episode is over?
Where is the, what's the starch look?

(52:44):
it, does it have to do with starch location?
using Donnie's rule of everything, which is I just decide so you can find us.
would agree with me that a piece of pie is not a taco.
No, but you're going with the extreme example.
How is, oh, this is turning into like a political debate on TV is what this is turninginto.

(53:05):
Yeah.
with you, but I have issues with the pie.
I told him he went one starch too far.
That was a bit of a starch.
um
This says a vanilla soy latte is a three bean wet salad.
stop, just stop.

(53:27):
You're not helping our cause in the least.
You are only making a case for the evil despot that will be cutting this episode intohere.
do it for another episode.
You can find us on the socials at partialcredited.
And you can check out our website, partial.credit, to see all of our amazing guests inprevious episodes.

(53:51):
And we can't wait to see you next time.
Thanks guys.
Thanks for listening.
Love you.
Shorts!