The Presumption

The Presumption is the official podcast of high-profile criminal defense attorney and media personality Sara Azari and acclaimed criminal trial lawyer Jim Griffin. With over 55 years of aggregate courtroom experience in state and federal courts from coast to coast, Sara and Jim provide listeners and viewers with in-depth analysis of the riveting criminal cases that make headlines and those that should make headlines. The podcast will explore the role and impact of media on the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial, as well as the forgotten disease of mental illness and addiction in crime. Episodes will present an important conversation between the hosts and/or in-depth interviews with high profile figures in criminal justice, as well as newsmakers and other influential figures.

Episodes

#039 –Chris Cuomo EXCLUSIVE (Part 2): Serial Killers, Menendez Bros., Natalie Holloway & More!

June 14, 2024 • 48 mins

In this continued conversation, Sara and Jim are up close and personal with Chris Cuomo who shares about his vast coverage of the Natalie Holloway murder and Van her Sloot; serial killers including Rifkin; and the Menendez Brothers: did Chris change his mind about their defense or have the times changed? Chris dives deep into how the media chooses headline stories and the coverage of minority vs majority problems: why does Chris f...

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#038–Chris Cuomo EXCLUSIVE (Part 1): Headline Crime, Mental Illness, & Literally Everything!

June 5, 2024 • 36 mins

Sara and Jim sit with veteran journalist, Chris Cuomo. Chris shares his vast experience covering crime stories over decades. He explains the fascination with crime, including with Murdaugh and the Gilgo killer, the need for transparency, the presumption in the court of law and public opinion, and so much more. Sara presses Chris on whether he really looks at the accused from the lens of presumption vs guilt, and Chris of course ret...

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#037-Bakari Sellers on Police Brutality and Use of Force, Mica Miller & O.J. Simpson

May 27, 2024 • 48 mins

This week Sara and Jim chat with lawyer, author, and political analyst Bakari Sellers. They dive into Bakari's high profile police brutality case, the case of Ricky Cobb, a Minnesota man who was unjustifiably shot to death by a state trooper. The hosts and Sellers take a close look at what the O.J. Simpson case would look like it if it was tried today, and overall how race plays in justice. The episode wraps with a discussion of th...

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#036-Dean Masserman on the State of Life, Choice, & IVF in America

May 9, 2024 • 49 mins

Sara and Jim sit with reproductive law guru Dean Masserman this week. Dean unpacks the latest IVF decision by the Alabama Supreme Court. The decision comes with a price which the hosts discuss at length with Dean. Should the rest of the country be worried? How do we balance unnecessary destruction of genetic tissue with the need for efficacy in a field that has helped millions of Americans have children? Decisions to restrict avail...

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#035 – Will Folks on All the Things, Including Murdaugh

March 26, 2024 • 59 mins

On this week's show Sara and Jim sit with Will Folks. The irreverant founder and editor of Fits News shares about how the news operation started, his one too many kids, and his journey of sobriety. Up close and personal, talks openly about his relationship with newsmaker and politician Nikki Haley. Will also shares about his coverage of corruption S. Carolina, the Murdaugh case, and life after Murdaugh. Sara, Jim and Will then tak...

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#034 Pat Harris EXCLUSIVE: New Evidence May Lead to New Trial for Scott Peterson

March 13, 2024 • 63 mins

Pat Harris, Scott Peterson’s attorney, sits down with Sara for an exclusive interview about shocking new evidence regarding the disappearance and murder of his wife Laci Peterson and son Connor, as well as Scott Peterson’s road to a possible new trial. Sara and Pat talk at length about the extensive defense investigation over the past two decades, and the Los Angeles Innocence Project’s recent motion dump. They also discuss the med...

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#033 – Elizabeth Kelley on Representing People with Mental Illness and Disabilities, & Addiction

February 27, 2024 • 50 mins

Elizabeth Kelley joins the show this week sharing her expertise representing people struggling with mental illnesses or mental disabilities. Elizabeth, Sara and Jim begin the show by discussing the difference between these two, “illness” and “disability”, and how those afflicted are treated in the criminal justice system. They also discuss more specifically about individuals on the autism spectrum and the misunderstandings of this ...

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#032 – Theories, Conspiracies, and Mysterious Circumstances Surrounding James Brown’s Death

February 6, 2024 • 35 mins

This week, criminal trial attorneys Sara Azari and Jim Griffin break down the conspiracy theories surrounding the death of legend and godfather of soul, James Brown. They also discuss the mysterious death of Brown’s son-in-law, and whether or not the two deaths are linked. Jim shares his experience representing two of Brown’s biological daughters in the ongoing litigation surrounding his estate. For more on this fascinating story, ...

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#031 - Savannah Chrisley (Part 2): Advocacy for Prison Conditions, and the Pursuit of Criminal Justice

January 30, 2024 • 30 mins

Jim and Sara continue their conversation with justice warrior, Savannah Chrisley. This week, the conversation is focused on the deplorable prison conditions that are impacting prisoners and families all across the nation, including Savannah’s father, Todd. They challenge prison policies that muzzle inmates and violate the 1st amendment. They also discuss the many double standards that are in place when it comes to defending a perso...

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#030 - Savannah Chrisley (Part 1): The Fraud Case Against Todd and Julie Chrisley

January 24, 2024 • 41 mins

Savannah Chrisley has been advocating for criminal justice after her parents, Todd and Julie Chrisley, were convicted of multiple counts of fraud in 2022. Today she joins Sara and Jim for a conversation about the way her family was treated in both the media and at trial, and how it led to a violation of not only their presumption of innocence, but multiple other constitutional rights. She says they were the target of celebrity inju...

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#029 – The Constitutionality of Forensic Genetic Genealogy with Professor Natalie Ram

January 17, 2024 • 60 mins

Today’s guest Prof. Natalie Ram specializes in examining the intersection between the advancements in forensic genealogy, and its role in the criminal justice system. For 15 years, Prof. Ram has made a case that forensic genetic genealogy raises constitutional and ethical concerns, including 4th amendment violations, based on the lack of voluntariness in genetic relatedness. More specifically, Sara and Jim ask about the protocols (...

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#028 – Jan 6th Trump Mock Trial, Crisis Management, and Defending Gov. Cuomo + Sen. Franken, w/ Lanny Davis

January 9, 2024 • 57 mins

Sara and Jim are excited to release their first new podcast of 2024. The hosts welcome lawyer, crisis manager, and political consultant Lanny Davis to the show, and discuss the recent mock trial that Sara and Lanny participated in. They also highlight the importance of the presumption of innocence, and how innuendos in journalism and media create a presumption of guilt instead. The hosts ask Lanny about his recommended come-back st...

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#027 – Hip Hop’s 50th Birthday, plus the Murders of Tupac & Jam Master Jay with Naima Cochrane

December 19, 2023 • 57 mins

In honor of Hip Hop’s 50th birthday, Sara and Jim are joined by music industry veteran and leading voice in Black music and culture, Naima Cochrane. Naima, Sara and Jim discuss the recent headline-making developments in two unsolved murder cases that have shaken the Hip Hop world for decades: Tupac Shakur and Jam Master Jay. As always, the hosts present an insider’s look at some of the evidence that may be considered, and the unrel...

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#026 – The Truth About Lie Detectors, with Polygraph Expert Johnny Hartley

December 12, 2023 • 60 mins

This week Sara and Jim sit down with polygraph examiner Johnny Hartley to learn everything you could possibly ever want to know about the science of lie detection. Johnny speaks at length about just how different the reality of being testing via polygraph is to how the process seems on TV and in movies. He also answers questions about admissibility in court, the history and advancements of the technology, and dispelling the myth th...

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#025 – Jim Griffin Episode w/ Hope Griffin. Plus Treasure Hunters, a Sting Operation, & Cat Justice

December 5, 2023 • 62 mins

Jim is in the guest seat this week to discuss some of the wildest cases he’s defended over the years. Helping to share some behind the scenes stories is surprise co-host, and Jim’s daughter, Hope Griffin. The group dives into the controversies surrounding a drug detection device called the ‘Quadro Tracker’, and why bringing home a present for your daughter can help you win the case. They also discuss Jim’s early appearances on Cour...

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#024 – Bryan Kohberger’s Phone 'Off'? Plus Digital Forensics, and Kirby Smith Trial w/ Jim Persinger

November 21, 2023 • 65 mins

First up- some important announcements, and an expression of our gratitude! Sara and Jimmy G. then welcome forensic cell data expert, Jim Persinger to the podcast to discuss his extensive training and background in the constantly changing field of digital and cell phone technology. They talk with him about phone and cell tower analysis software, as well as some of the common misconceptions and mistakes that can be made in the colle...

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#023 – Dick Harpootlian on the Murdaugh Jury, The Clintons, and Convicted Killer Pee Wee Gaskins

November 14, 2023 • 58 mins

South Carolina State Senator, and Jim’s co-counsel on many cases, Dick Harpootlian makes his debut appearance on the podcast. Sara chats with Dick and Jim about the history of their working relationship as well as their decades long friendship. Jim and Dick share some BTS moments that may have landed one of them in a hot tub! They share the latest in the Alex Murdaugh cases, and the overall twists and turns in the high profile case...

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#022 – Jerome Buting on Steven Avery, Jail and Bail, and Prosecutorial Misconduct

November 7, 2023 • 63 mins

Sara and Jim welcome high profile trial attorney Jerome Buting to talk about defending a case with pre-trial publicity. They discuss Jerome’s defense of Steven Avery, the flaws in the criminal justice system, as well as the lasting impact of the docuseries ‘Making a Murderer’. Later, Sara and Jim offer a couple of parallels to what Jim has experienced during and after the Alex Murdaugh murder trial. The episode ends with Jerome’s t...

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#021 – DNA in Exonerations, Brian Banks’ Freedom, & What’s Up with IGG with Justin Brooks

October 31, 2023 • 52 mins

Justin Brooks is a professor, attorney, and former Founding Director of the California Innocence Project. Sara and Jim speak with him about his incredible work handling wrongful convictions and freeing innocent people from prison. Justin also discusses his new book, ‘Why You Might Go To Prison Even Though You’re Innocent’, as well as what lead him to take on these very important cases post-conviction. Sara and Jim also ask Justin a...

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#020 – Thomas Mesereau on Defending Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby, plus Defendants Taking the Stand

October 24, 2023 • 53 mins

Trial guru Thomas Mesereau joins Sara and Jim at the top of the show. The trio of trial lawyers discuss his incredible accomplishments in the courtroom, as well as his relationship with media. They also discuss his defense of Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, and more. As the show wraps up, Thomas discusses his life-changing pro bono work in the deep south, and why he thinks all defense lawyers should assume at jump that their client is...

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The Presumption

Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#039 –Chris Cuomo EXCLUSIVE (Part 2): Serial Killers, Menendez Bros., Natalie Holloway & More!

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}#038–Chris Cuomo EXCLUSIVE (Part 1): Headline Crime, Mental Illness, & Literally Everything!

#037-Bakari Sellers on Police Brutality and Use of Force, Mica Miller & O.J. Simpson

#036-Dean Masserman on the State of Life, Choice, & IVF in America

#035 – Will Folks on All the Things, Including Murdaugh

#034 Pat Harris EXCLUSIVE: New Evidence May Lead to New Trial for Scott Peterson

#033 – Elizabeth Kelley on Representing People with Mental Illness and Disabilities, & Addiction

#032 – Theories, Conspiracies, and Mysterious Circumstances Surrounding James Brown’s Death

#031 - Savannah Chrisley (Part 2): Advocacy for Prison Conditions, and the Pursuit of Criminal Justice

#030 - Savannah Chrisley (Part 1): The Fraud Case Against Todd and Julie Chrisley

#029 – The Constitutionality of Forensic Genetic Genealogy with Professor Natalie Ram

#028 – Jan 6th Trump Mock Trial, Crisis Management, and Defending Gov. Cuomo + Sen. Franken, w/ Lanny Davis

#027 – Hip Hop’s 50th Birthday, plus the Murders of Tupac & Jam Master Jay with Naima Cochrane

#026 – The Truth About Lie Detectors, with Polygraph Expert Johnny Hartley

#025 – Jim Griffin Episode w/ Hope Griffin. Plus Treasure Hunters, a Sting Operation, & Cat Justice

#024 – Bryan Kohberger’s Phone 'Off'? Plus Digital Forensics, and Kirby Smith Trial w/ Jim Persinger

#023 – Dick Harpootlian on the Murdaugh Jury, The Clintons, and Convicted Killer Pee Wee Gaskins

#022 – Jerome Buting on Steven Avery, Jail and Bail, and Prosecutorial Misconduct

#021 – DNA in Exonerations, Brian Banks’ Freedom, & What’s Up with IGG with Justin Brooks

#020 – Thomas Mesereau on Defending Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby, plus Defendants Taking the Stand

Popular Podcasts

#039 –Chris Cuomo EXCLUSIVE (Part 2): Serial Killers, Menendez Bros., Natalie Holloway & More!

#038–Chris Cuomo EXCLUSIVE (Part 1): Headline Crime, Mental Illness, & Literally Everything!