July 14, 2025 • 36 mins
When Should You Process Your Audio—and When Should You Leave It Clean?
Description:
This week on The Pro Audio Suite, we’re tackling a topic that trips up a lot of voice talent: processed voice over.
What does “processing” really mean when a client asks for it? Should you send your files squeaky clean, lightly polished, or fully mastered? And how do you avoid overcooking your audio before it even hits the mix?
George Whittam, Robert Marshall, Andrew Peters, and Robbo break it all down, including:
🎙️ What basic processing actually involves
🔊 The difference between a gentle clean-up and heavy-handed treatment
📂 How to ask the right questions so you deliver exactly what your client expects
🎧 Why your environment matters more than your plugins
Proudly sponsored by Tri-Booth and Austrian Audio.
We only endorse products we actually believe in—and these are two of the best in the game.
Don’t forget to check out Tri-Booth (use code TRIPAP200) and explore the OC818 from Austrian Audio for your studio.
Links Mentioned:
🌐 The Pro Audio Suite Website
🌐 Tri-Booth
🌐 Austrian Audio
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Y'all ready? Be history. Get started.
(00:01):
Welcome. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hello, everyone.
To the pro audio suite. These guys are professional and motivated.
We've taken the video stars George Wisdom, founder of Source Element, Robert Marshall, international audio engineer Robbie Roberts, and global voice Andrew Peters. Thanks to tribal Austrian audio making, passionate elements George the tech Wisdom and Robbo and APIs international demo. To find out more about us. Check the Proteas sweetcorn line up. Ready? Here we go. I'm ready. And welcome to another pro audio suite.
(00:35):
Thanks to tribus. Don't forget the code. Try Pip 200. That will get you $200 off your tribal and Australian audio making passion. Heard Cheering right now on a CC fight. Very nice. Now there's no processing on my microphone, but, a strange thing happened with Robert the other week. Well, what the hell was the story?
(00:57):
It wasn't strange, but it's it's bizarre. And I'm sort of having lived in agency land for so long, I've been I've been removed from some of these casting websites and and some of the strange requests that came seemed to come through, but I was I was talking to a voiceover, talent a couple of weeks ago, and they'd been sent a job request from a client, and they'd been asked to compress in a queue their final delivery.
(01:21):
And she was sort of saying to me, I don't know, like she actually knew what compression HQ was, but what what did they want? And for whatever the reasons why, she wasn't in a position to get that answer, apparently you can't ask questions back. People out there will set me straight on that. But anyway, my my point was, well, you know, effectively, I guess you've got to think about who you're delivering it to and what what they might want because, you know, I guess if you're processing stuff, I mean, if you're sending it to me, I don't want you to do anything.
(01:50):
But if you're sending it to someone who's going to throw it up in a final sort of video without touching it like a content creator or something, then you probably want to do a bit more. So for me, it beg the question Will what is processed audio if someone's asking for it? And I guess I've kind of roughly outlined their my thoughts.
But George, I mean, you know what what do you write? I mean, for me it's sort of like where's it going? What are you doing with it is the first consideration.
(02:14):
That's extremely dependent on that. Right now I'm actually working with, the voiceover blueprint, and they're they have a TV affiliate voiceover, series. They're doing like a course. And so I'm bundled, I'm bundled in with the course to creating the TV affiliate preset for the students. So and the reason that's so important is in that particular segment of promo, which is a, you know, it's a segment of a segment, you know, it's a it's a niche of a niche.
(02:44):
Right. And very, very often is the case. There is no audio mixer in post working on the audio. Right? So you send in that file, it gets dropped into a timeline and final cut or who knows what, and that it goes on to the air. Because first of all, a speed is is the essence because it's always the same day, right?
(03:05):
Everything is for tonight's news at five or 6 or 11. So that's one. Two. Yeah.
It's it's this just in.
Everything is everything is time sensitive. Always. And then, then it's just budgets, you know, they don't have a sound mixer working on these mixes. I didn't know this. Like, from an insider's perspective. I found out through listening to my clients voiceover, you know, their their their way. They sounded on commercials, not commercials, TV affiliate spots. And the first one that pointed out to me years ago is Randy Thomas.
(03:43):
She's like, I'm hearing my voice in this and it's buried. It's not clear or I'm not very easily heard, like, what's going on? Guess what? They're not doing anything to your audio. You're sending them raw audio, which you should be. And it sounds good, but they're not sweetening it at all. So what are we going to do? We're going to make a preset so that you can give them this pre sweetened audio.
(04:08):
They can drop it into the timeline and get the job done. And you still sound crisp clear loud. Everything that you know you'd want it to be. It's a really weird thing. It's like engineering voiceover into a production where I'm not part of the production.
Part of the process. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
(04:28):
You're like, you're like predictively processing because you don't even know how it's really going to sit in there, but you just. Right. This is the one time when it's excusable to process your voice, when your clients aren't responsible enough to do it.
Yes. So this is this is a I would say one of the more extreme cases. Right. But there are a lot of cases where the end they end user is not hiring engineering, they're not hiring an audio production team at all. This is, I'm sure, increasingly the case. So somebody has to do it.
(05:00):
Yeah. And on the other end of the spectrum, then, I mean, for me, if you were sending it to an audio engineer, and I actually did a webinar a couple of weeks ago on sort of home studios and stuff, and we touched on processing, but I what I was sort of saying in there was, if you are sending it to an engineer and you feel like you need to do something to it for whatever reason, firstly, have a reason for doing that.
(05:22):
I mean, if the reads kind of fairly dynamic, then, okay, maybe a tiny bit of compression and we talked about what that might look like, you know, maybe some HQ changes. But I mean, again, just to sweeten it, I mean, for me, the sort of message I tried to leave the viewers with was it's going to an audio engineer.
So if you if you feel like you have to touch it, you want to leave them in a position where they're actually going. Well, I've got a really good starting point now and there's everything that everything's there that I need. I don't have to do my noise reduction. I don't have to, you know, the click click or whatever.
(05:55):
I will be click off. Yeah, exactly. Delivered in a, in a nice sort of way in that respect. But don't box the in where you've done so much to it that they're now in this position where they're going, Holy shit, how do I get out of this?
It's a team effort. It has to be a team effort. If there's an audio production team involved, you're on their team. Yeah, you guys are on a team together. So if the coach says send it flat, send it flat. If the coach says, you'd be sure. Helpful. If you do a little send your audio and this is what we'd like you to do, then you are part of the team now.
(06:24):
You're not getting paid to be part of this learning team, which is a problem. But you are part of a team. And so that's what they're looking for to get the job done better, for worse. Right or wrong, you got to do what they want and what they expect. Now you're not going to like you know what to do in that case.
(06:44):
And that's why I've been making these presets and stuff for people for a really long time, because I'm just trying to fill in that blank that depending on the work, you know, some of it's very nuanced, especially commercial work. If you send in a commercial audition and it sounds processed, it's the kiss of death.
Yeah, you'll scare them off.
They just don't want that. Yeah, that'll totally scare them off. Right. So it's just it's a very nuanced thing. But in terms of the genres, they're all different. They all need a different amount. And a lot of it is it's it's subjective, guys. It just is subjective. I don't have a magic sauce for what is the perfect setting for every environment.
(07:28):
I'm just going to listen to every.
Voice to.
And every voice, and I'm going to listen and do my best and see you know, I'll do processing for folks and I'll get feedback like I sound too sibilant or I still have too much mouth noise. And what I'll usually say is, you know what to you, you do. But to me, the listener, you don't. And so then, then it's like a really difficult balancing act because you're like, I know you're hearing those things and I know they're bothering you, but to me, they're they're subdued enough that I don't want you scrubbing them out of the audio, thereby making it sound less natural and sound more filtered.
(08:07):
And now you're going to have more little artifacts that you don't really notice, but a professional does.
And that's the thing, right? Coming back to what we said, you know, sending it to an engineer, I'm not going to care whether it is mouth clicks and sibilance, because that's a, you know, a couple of minutes and that's fixed for me. But if you're sending it to someone where there's no processing going on, then sure, maybe that's when you do.
(08:27):
So it's more about not just going, I've got a process. Everything is sort of I reckon the message out of this episode.
Really, it's nuanced. It's knowing who you're working with, your client, what do they want? Talk to them.
Do you ever get asked IP?
No, I don't never have been. Never. But I do what I can do if I'm concerned that they're not going to do anything at the end, I will probably. Yeah, I will probably just change them. I can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just use like a 41 six.
(08:57):
Something that you know. Yeah. It's got some cotton.
And then they normalize it minus three or something and then shoot it off.
Good plan. But you've also got a great room you know that's the thing. And you've also got the I got a cupboard full of microphones that any fucking voiceover artist would fall over themselves for today. So you need a kind of privilege position.
Another another thing you can do, and I think this is definitely something that's going to be done more often by the more experienced, you know, voice actor slash producers is sending a dry and a wet. So if you if you've never worked with them before ever and you're concerned. So this is this I think is a real concern.
(09:36):
They may ask you for the file flat or dry, but you send it to them that way and they got them. It's not really doing it because they don't know that. The way it sounds when they want it to sound good is not flat and dry. It's actually processed.
So there's just so here's just.
Asking for something that they think they're supposed to ask for because other businesses or, or listings on one, two, five or whatever said do this. And so they do the same thing. And then so but if you send them two takes, one wet, one dry, I bet you 90% of the time they'll probably pick the wet file.
(10:15):
So here. So here's an idea. First of all. Yeah. I mean, like they asked for stuff they don't want all the time. Like, don't read it like an announcer and then they direct you into something else.
Can you put some more emphasis on that word, and can you pause here, and can you. Yes.
That's right.
Yeah. But what if you send a stereo file with the left side completely dry and the right side way over compressed and maybe over echoed? And the idea is that you just dial a blend between.
(10:46):
Like a parallel.
Compressor. Yeah. And then you're like a little bit more and a little bit less. This is a really loud spot. I can't get it to cut through anything like all the way over to the right side, kill it and EQ it like, and you could and then they don't even know. They don't have to know what they're doing other than to just a little bit more left and right.
(11:06):
So. George. Sorry, Robert. Sorry. Let me let me ask you a question, because I know the answer to this, and I'm sure George does too. I want to see how you go. What is what is the one? Whether it be what is the one plug in? And I'm not talking brand or anything, but like, type of plug in that a voiceover artist should never, ever, ever put on their voice a gate.
(11:29):
Thank you.
Yeah, please.
Especially a hard gate like an expander.
Maybe it has to be done there. So yeah, if anybody knows you're using it, you're not using it.
Everything's got to be everything's I mean I mean, when Robert and I make sessions, everything's subtle. You know, I don't grab handfuls of anything unless I absolutely have to to rescue something. And everything is done subtly. And so it should be even more subtle when you're talking about the raw ingredients.
(11:59):
Yeah.
I did a session the other about them last week, last Friday to do something.
Yeah.
Yeah I remember and it was, it really got nothing to do with processing. Well kind of in a funny way. But they showed me they wanted to do the playback of the film that shot, and it's a 32nd spot. So they had a guide track on their guide read, because we were sort of like, I think this script is too long anyway.
(12:29):
But wait, no, no, no, we'll show you the we'll show you the video 32nd spot. So it starts off by the time it gets in the middle at time compress the guide read right.
So the fuck.
It's never going to fit because you just time compressed. The guide read. How do you think this is going to work? So anyway, so we're rewriting the script as we go. And they've gone, okay, now there's also a Sonic at the end. How long is a Sonic 2.5 seconds. Okay, so we've got to get this at 27. So we've already gone at 38.
(12:59):
So now we're trying to cow down to 27. So a chop chop chop anyway. But they said do you think you can get this at 27. I said yeah I think I can. Let's give it a go. So we do it bang. By the time the deep breath. Yeah 27 seconds they go, okay. Now can we put more emphasis on this and this.
You going the reason this is 27 seconds is because we can't do that.
(13:23):
Yeah. Holy smokes. Fucking hell. Yeah. That stuff never ends.
And that's what you're dealing with.
Food time, food prices, they guide track. Yeah. Seriously.
It's like if it's under Sky Trek.
You've just quite a long time.
Pretty obvious before you even started.
But I mean, if you want to talk about the ultimate in processing, go back and listen to the episode where we interview Jeff Perlin.
(13:45):
Yeah.
Yeah. It's really yeah, layers and Pro Tools, you know. And so he's yeah, he's running. He's reading and acting out a blessing.
Bunch of stems to.
These different stems. And at the end of that take he's already got three different levels of processing soft medium.
(14:06):
And yeah that.
Through the wall. That's next.
That's next level.
Yeah that's good could I.
Yeah that's that's like panning across the multitude. Yeah.
Right. And I could set that up for anybody. Anybody if any of us could do that that knows how to do it. But then you have all these extra choices to make. And so you really have to decide what it is then that you're giving them and then, you know, so I think that's going a two far, you know.
(14:32):
But again the Jeff's a pro and he's been doing the imaging and everything for ever. So he knows what he can, what makes sense for him and his workflow. The those are the capabilities of a multitrack doll that you can't do let's say with twisted wave with with like a twisted wave. You'd have to make them do the record, edit it the way you like, make a copy of it.
(14:53):
All right, all right. Have a dry copy. Take the dry copy, run it for a stack. Have that be stack X. You know, version one. Maybe you have a second stack of dry cut dry and process the dry file only.
But that's because twisted wave is not a door. It has no mixer. Right? To be a door, you have to have a real time mixer, right? If not, it's not a door, right?
(15:17):
Right.
It's a file. It's a file.
And theoretically, I think a doll also has to be nondestructive or no.
Yes, I would say so, yes.
So yeah.
The other type of processing before we disappear we should touch on is is noise reduction because that's the other one that I get sent files occasionally and I have to go back and say, look, I hope you've still got the original file. Can you send me that? Because.
(15:43):
Because your noise reduction sounds like.
Yeah. And the thing. The thing.
Yeah, it's it's a form of. Okay.
So the thing that, well, the point that I made the other night in my webinar was that noise reduction was originally created just to get rid of camera noise out of location sound. That was all it was. It was just a subtle thing to tidy it up. Right. So when you think about your noise reduction, that's the way you should think about it.
(16:05):
You shouldn't be thinking about it in terms of getting rid of the dog barking next door or the kid crying in the next room or whatever. It's something that's just, again, something subtle. So the obvious place to start is to have a room that's set up right to begin with, and then deal with anything that's left. Don't try it.
Don't try and use your plugins to fix problems. I guess is what I'm saying, because that's not what that.
(16:27):
This is a thing to caution people with two you can you can have something that sounds a bit like garbage, and then you can throw some noise reduction thing on it, especially some of this new AI noise reduction. You can go, oh my God, it took care of it completely. But then when you listen to it closely, it's got that synthetic sound.
It's got no top. And and it's. Yeah. And and just because you're so impressed on the first blush doesn't mean that is actually.
(16:54):
And then you process on top of that you compress in EQ and everything on top of that, and all of a sudden it's a massive big mess.
Bring it all out. Yeah. That's right.
Yeah. I watch a YouTube channel, an F1 YouTube channel, and there's one guy, one of the hosts on this thing. He uses the gate because he's always in a hotel room or he's on location somewhere, but he just goes so hard on this thing.
(17:16):
And as an engineer, there's nothing you can do because it's gone forever. You know? It's just it's like just like it's like going and going into your recording and just randomly cutting out bits of audio and then sending it off and going, well, he's my he's my takes. Yeah.
It's a gate is the ultimate and destructive bugger. I mean there's nothing more destructive than mute pieces of audio.
Yeah. I mean the thing is I mean s is and. Yeah, and some of those f sounds and stuff like that are easy to fix because you can, you can, you can sort of cut one and sort of they're easy to cut. But some of the other sounds, when these gates are cutting off you can't replicate them.
(17:48):
It's a pain in the ass though. It's like, yeah, like, don't do that gaming is all this stuff can be done after the fact. And what makes you think that the audio engineer, except for these people who are running so fast to production or to to posting a cheap that they're not process. Yeah. But realistically anything you can do every I mean even the video editor should be able to do better than you, I think.
(18:14):
Yeah, sure. Maybe not.
Well, I saw a post, this morning actually, when I was just going through the feed and there was a guy they were talking about microphones, and it was. I can't remember what microphone was. I think that had a UAD seven up there or something. And it basically says what we said. It's like it doesn't matter how expensive your microphone is if your room's shit is going to sound shit.
Yeah.
We said that a million times. A good miking a shit room is still going to sound terrible.
(18:38):
And then you're my technique.
Yeah, my technique is the other. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right.
So unbelievably important. Yeah, I would, I would argue to say that my technique is first in the room.
Second depends how bad the room is.
I suppose you can get away with a terrible room if your mic is in the, you know, just in the right spot and you delivery is just the right volume and you can probably get away with a totally garbage room with the right mike technique.
(19:04):
Well, it is starting with the premise that you don't have anything unless you have a microphone anyway, right?
Right, right. Yeah. But like like when people get a check for me, which I do a ton of those, you know, I'll give them an evaluation about my technique and I'll give them an evaluation, the acoustics. And sometimes they'll say the acoustics are maybe eight out of ten, but I bet if you got a little closer to the mic, it would sound 9 or 10 out of ten without touching the acoustics.
(19:30):
So if you want a free acoustics upgrade, moving like, you know, it's one of those weird things. They all interact. So, I do that all the time, and then oftentimes they're like, oh wow, I had no idea. It is far more common for a voice actor to have their mic too far away in their home studio than it is to have it too close, in my experience.
(19:50):
Yeah, that's just been what I see too.
Too close. You can EQ the issues away for the most part. You can get rid of that box.
I had too much gloominess.
Yeah, you just just don't have the money, right? That's all. Get really close and don't pop it. And you can probably EQ the rest of it.
Yeah. I think the key, if you're in a bad environment is my technique and gain. Yeah. Right. If you get those two correct then you're okay.
(20:12):
And the other thing, the other thing too, I reckon that some, some people with home studios get carried away with is in a home studio. There's always going to be some issues. Okay? You've never going to get a perfect room in a home environment unless you've got, you know, I.
Whispering.
Something, right? Unless you unless you're buying something in, if you're just building a booth in a, in a walk in wardrobe or in a room or something, there's always going to be issues. So you've got to expect that what you want to do though, is just minimalize. Those just work on sort of bringing them down to a point where it's really not an issue within your recording and then sort of worry about any other processing, rather than trying to just fix it all by slapping a bunch of plugins on it because it's yeah.
(20:56):
They'll just don't process your voice unless, you know, your client's not going to do it.
Just time and time and place. Just think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. Why you're doing it is the biggest question. The first question you should ask yourself is, okay, why am I doing that? I'm doing it because there's no one at the other end who's going to do it. Sure, I'm doing it because I want to deliver Robbo something that's easier for him to get a starting place from.
(21:18):
And I'm not going to disrupt his workflow. Sure.
And say something else for like the more green engineers out there, because you can hear something that you don't like, and you can ask the voiceover talent to change their mic placement to get closer to whatever you are hearing. And you can solve your problem from the input instead of going like, oh yeah, that guy was like far away from the like.
(21:41):
And now I got to fight, fight all this. I can.
Fight. You said that I really feel like more engineers have to be better at communicating with the talent, what they need, instead of just going get a different mic. I don't like the way that Mike.
Yeah that's right. Yeah, exactly.
It's like, you know, it's just as vague. It's not actually true in many cases.
(22:02):
It's condescending. Yeah.
It's just like get a better mic or whatever the dumb thing they say to the talent, it's kind of honestly disrespectful and belittling of the talent. I think, you know.
And there are engineers out there who have that, that mentality about voice over, I would say it's completely unfair and unfounded, especially in this day and age where Jesus, let's be honest, they're sort of almost on stage as equals with us in terms of expectations from clients and what they need to do on their end.
(22:27):
They get paid.
More than they do. Yeah, there's always that. That's right. Maybe, maybe we should start saying, look, I'll do the voiceover and the production and then we can get paid more.
I've been saying that for years. I just didn't have the right soapbox to stand on. Yeah, it's always made me mad that the actor is expected to throw in production as a part of the cost of doing business. Like if I was the actor invoicing the jobs, I would have a line item for production. Every single time I.
(22:56):
Would have a line item for my booth.
Yeah, one.
Space that I'm recording in.
Yeah.
I do actually, on my invoices. I have, studio edits and Swords Connect as well.
Absolutely.
Yeah. But when I invoice, I always have it at zero, but I just make sure they know it.
But if they don't see it. Yeah, if they don't see it on the invoice, you're not educating the client about what the value is they're actually receiving from you. If you just say voice over $20.
(23:27):
They don't even need education. The clients know it. The clients put in auditions that say, must have your own home studio, blah, blah, blah. They know what they're really saying is we will not pay for an outside studio. If you don't have an in-house studio and you have to go out, you're paying for it yourself. And I've seen some voiceover talent get a gig that they care enough.
(23:48):
About enough that they actually foot the bill for an outside studio because their client.
Oh, this is increasingly common. Yeah. Not even beyond that. Buying extremely specialized hardware. I have a client who is doing voices utility voice for, I won't say the show. It's to be too specific. I would point fingers, but doing utility voice for an extremely popular animated cartoon series, right. And in order for her to do the job, she has to buy an extremely arcane piece of audio IP equipped, right?
(24:26):
So arcane that I had never heard of the brand. I went to all the usual dealers like DSW and everything. Nobody, nobody carried it. I went to the. I went to the website of the company that makes the product, and I found it in Europe, of course, and there was one US distributor that sells it. And I was like, that's the thing you have to buy as a voice talent to do the job for the thing that they hired you to do.
(24:52):
That's just crazy to me. So crazy. It's like, and it's only getting me used for that one thing. It's not like Source Connect, where it's so universal and popular and used in so many productions, is like one specialty box. I'll tell you offline what it is. Robert. But I was like, what on fricking planet Earth is going on here, you know?
(25:13):
And she had to do the same thing. She has a second studio in New York. She she had an apartment. She's do the same thing there. So she had to do it at home. And then this guy came in, installed all of it, and was really a kind of a jerk about it. And then he added noise problems that I had to come in and fix because he added a ground loop in the process.
And then she got her partner in New York and has to buy that same box again for the free apartment in New York, just so she can do this.
(25:41):
And then she can't sell it because no one else wants it.
Right? That's the thing is, it's highly boutique. Like I was like, what is this? What is this? So, you know, I know this is a weird. But the.
Other hand, if the gig if the gig pays for it, you know, if the gig is good enough for.
The gigs, not paying for the gig, she has to make back the money during the gig.
(26:04):
No, no. Right, right. But the gig.
I'm not getting the money well enough. Yeah, it's paying for it. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. It's like price of entry. I also understand the flip side of that. But yeah, at the same time it's like, come on, like move on. You know, I can't believe it. The other day, some guy was, had a session and asked us for an iced Enbridge. I was like, we don't do that anymore. And he's got one client.
(26:31):
I was like, where is that one last? I asked him, why in the world, like, Holy cow, I literally, George, I don't know if I told you this. I threw out a stack of zephyrs six feet tall.
No way.
I was like, what am I going to do with them? They cost you money to get rid of them.
That is bonkers.
(26:51):
You could done, like, the Red Hot Chili Chili Peppers so you could fly away on your Zephyr.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, if you calculate that at the price of the original thing, I threw away, like $100,000 worth of Zephyr somehow.
Which is now worth nothing, though.
I've got one staring at me as we.
Speak. They're not worth, like, not even 20 bucks apiece. That's why I was, you know, I was like.
Somebody told me that she sold one for $50 recently, and I was like.
(27:15):
Who pays $50 for what are you going to do? Oh, boy.
I was like, I'd love to know.
What's going to happen is the price will goes up slightly again once there's none left, and then you find it's like the price of like a mach two sky. It was actually like, ridiculous, right? You know, like, who's going to pay $500 for Mac?
It's a 30 year old computer about that.
(27:39):
Yeah. I mean, it's the Mac classic.
Thousands, thousands and thousands of dollars.
I pulled out my Nintendo 64 the other week. What's that worth? I've got about a dozen games go with. And what's that worth these days?
What about my Betamax? What's that with?
Well, I mean, but those things at some point become worth more because someone's got one tape left and they can't play it back. And like, damn machines are hitting that that kind of realm where if you can find a working day, I still.
(28:03):
Use my portable that.
It's worth it.
Yeah, that's totally true. If it's a medium that's dying, then you really need to have a machine that can play that medium. And those are.
And if it's working, yeah, if it's working, you got some money here? I got.
A mini disc.
I think it's a nice. Got a mini disc to. Yeah. Yeah.
I felt bad about tossing these things, but at the same time it's like, what am I going to do with them? I can store them in my basement all, all their life. Yeah. Like they just.
(28:30):
Like you can put them under the sofa. So when you get older, you don't have to bend over so much when you stand up.
I was using some of them like, like half. The thing is I'm trying to get my basement worked on, and I was using some of them to keep other, more valuable objects off the ground. When water came in.
It was like the white trash television stand, which is the old TV that holds up the new TV.
(28:52):
So.
I made use of everything.
So we should finish up this episode by by saying that I reckon in terms of processing, when in doubt, just don't use my my honest opinion. Yeah, or.
At least capture a copy of this.
Or keep a clean copy.
Always, always, always have a dry, unmasked wet and dry file no matter what. Always, always.
(29:19):
Can always process offline. If you're going to.
Process live.
Capture dry.
Yeah yeah.
Yeah. Process the file. Don't corner yourself. Right.
I just there's a resurgence of front end processing thanks to the universal audio follow.
Yeah. Right.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean all of a sudden now I mean normal people that wouldn't normally have a rack gear have access to every. Damn. If I have to see another Apollo plug in chain with a Vox box in it, can I just because you have access to a $4,000 fake piece of gear doesn't mean you default. Use that plug in for everything you do.
(29:56):
Yeah.
So I mean, unless you've got a read that's like ridiculously dynamic and you want to put a little bit of compression over it to stop it, you know, distorting into the box, there's, there's no real.
Reason to that. It won't do that if you're ready. Digital like that makes sense. If it's an actual analog piece it's going ahead. Is your converter I have this argument. I don't know, argument discussion with with a friend of mine, and I think it's a generational thing. I grew up initially doing all my recordings to tape. You would over EQ.
(30:29):
Rob I'm sure you know this. Like, oh, I'm recording the tape. I'm going to over boost the high end EQ going on the tape, because I know when it comes back, it's going to come back a little bit dull. Sometimes. So, so you're kind of doing that predictive thing or I know I'm going to bounce and then ProTools comes out and it's affordable.
And I remember distinctly going, I'm just going preamps right into ProTools and I'm going to do all that stuff afterwards, make like all my decisions later. And that's the way I do everything now. So and I'm talking to some some engineers and they're younger than me and they're now all about like processing everything going down into the computer.
(31:09):
And I'm like, why are you doing that? Right? It's better. It's this. But you're cornering yourself. And and I understand the, the idea that one of two things, either I only have one of these xyzzy magic boxes. So I want to process on the way in and get the most use out of it by doing multiple things with it.
Maybe. Or I'm so good at my decisions on the front that I know I'm going to want all this, and so I don't need to slow myself down by doing it later. But I will track in and I will while tracking a band. I don't have my processing on the playback and I'll start dialing in my sound, so I'm saving myself that time already.
(31:51):
But I'm not cornered, right? And besides, a few things like high pass filters make sense on the way in because it's going to hit the converter. Maybe a little bit of protection if you're worried about your levels and the, you know, clipping. But I don't get it. Like, you know, converters are so good. Everything is so clean.
(32:12):
Dynamic range is massive.
Oh yeah, you can do it all in post and have have all your decisions later. Yeah.
No, it's it's same.
Thing with these Apollo plugins and the and the.
Front end processing is insidious. Head for voice actors because they as soon as you process on the front end you're now engineering while your voice.
Down and you can't undo it.
(32:33):
That's wrong and you can't undo it.
You can't undo.
It. Just can't. So please, guys, think about it.
Yeah.
Very hard when you say, I want to process all this stuff. I'm like, what's this? Think about what you're doing. If I get people that are coming to the Apollo and they're like, can you make me some setups? And I go, listen, what are these for? Well, I just want my auditions to x, y, z. I'm like, that's what we do in post.
(32:54):
That's we'll do that in audition. We'll do that in twist a way for do it. And you don't need to do that in the Apollo. So I've, I've way backed off on the amount of processing here the Apollo. And it's really now very much just a very sweetening cleaning thing or a very special delivery like someone is a pro promo voice and does promo all day and they have a certain sound they have to achieve.
(33:18):
Okay. That's a specialty thing. But other than that, if.
You know what you want and you're willing to absolutely commit, right? And you know that note, then fine. You know, you're saving some time. Possibly.
That's a that's a different mentality. Plus the promo people use headphones and they listen to themselves through the processing.
That's a whole but but the US got that record button. They can listen to themselves for.
(33:40):
The price has a minor. Yeah, sure. Minor. Yeah, yeah.
And you know there's.
A lot of yeah.
Almost nobody I have one client I set that up with ever. So it's just interesting. Yeah.
Everyone just puts it in the record mode and they.
They just make it and go on.
Yeah. Yeah.
I don't get it. Why you want to hear what you sound like when you've been processed.
That's a radius.
(34:00):
If you're, if you're, if you're playing the microphone and you're playing the compressor and the maybe you're that in tune with it.
It's definitely something that some promo people do. They think listen, they like hearing the little weird sounds in their voice at the quietest portions of the sound, you know, so that all that compression really boosts it. But that's the thing of printing that.
(34:22):
That's right. You might not do that, but I don't. That's not it's nothing.
Yeah I don't want to do it either.
But it's that's why angry audio. Angry audio makes this headphone amp that does all that crazy ass processing for the headphones.
Yeah. There you go. Well, there.
It's it's basically a horror band. Yeah. It's basically an orb. And freaking multi.
(34:44):
In the in the.
Monitoring chain that has all your processing on it. And exactly.
Yeah, I can understand that if you're a singer, but I don't understand it. If you're doing voiceover I don't get it. I don't know why you want to hear in your headphones something that's different to what you're actually capturing. Oh what I want to hear what's going on the tape.
I guess if you're talking about singers in general, they all want to hear set different things to and all that sort of stuff. Everybody's different.
(35:07):
Yeah. So sometimes it the singer, it's not even so much that they know that they want to do it. Sometimes if you make the singer sound good in their head, I can.
Make their.
They're more inspired and they perform better. I agree, and maybe in a subtle way, that's the same thing with the tail whip. Like, it's sounding so big.
And because if you're listening to yourself and then you're going, oh, fuck, I don't sound right, you're not really concentrating on your performance 100%.
(35:32):
I know you're not.
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, I, I encourage people to stop doing that.
But you know, yeah.
You don't get whatever you do. That's the biggest don't for me. Don't gate leave.
The gates at the farm. Oh, well that was fun. Is it over the pro audio. Sweet. Thanks to driver and Austrian audio recorded using Source Connect, edited by Andrew Peaches and Nick. Spyro the go. Do your own audio issues. Just ask Rob Aucoin. Tech support for George the Tech William don't forget to subscribe to the show and join in the conversation on our Facebook group to leave a comment, suggest a topic or just say goodbye.
(36:11):
Drop us a note at our website.
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(00:01):
Welcome. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hello, everyone.
To the pro audio suite. These guys are professional and motivated.
We've taken the video stars George Wisdom, founder of Source Element, Robert Marshall, international audio engineer Robbie Roberts, and global voice Andrew Peters. Thanks to tribal Austrian audio making, passionate elements George the tech Wisdom and Robbo and APIs international demo. To find out more about us. Check the Proteas sweetcorn line up. Ready? Here we go. I'm ready. And welcome to another pro audio suite.
(00:35):
Thanks to tribus. Don't forget the code. Try Pip 200. That will get you $200 off your tribal and Australian audio making passion. Heard Cheering right now on a CC fight. Very nice. Now there's no processing on my microphone, but, a strange thing happened with Robert the other week. Well, what the hell was the story?
(00:57):
It wasn't strange, but it's it's bizarre. And I'm sort of having lived in agency land for so long, I've been I've been removed from some of these casting websites and and some of the strange requests that came seemed to come through, but I was I was talking to a voiceover, talent a couple of weeks ago, and they'd been sent a job request from a client, and they'd been asked to compress in a queue their final delivery.
(01:21):
And she was sort of saying to me, I don't know, like she actually knew what compression HQ was, but what what did they want? And for whatever the reasons why, she wasn't in a position to get that answer, apparently you can't ask questions back. People out there will set me straight on that. But anyway, my my point was, well, you know, effectively, I guess you've got to think about who you're delivering it to and what what they might want because, you know, I guess if you're processing stuff, I mean, if you're sending it to me, I don't want you to do anything.
(01:50):
But if you're sending it to someone who's going to throw it up in a final sort of video without touching it like a content creator or something, then you probably want to do a bit more. So for me, it beg the question Will what is processed audio if someone's asking for it? And I guess I've kind of roughly outlined their my thoughts.
But George, I mean, you know what what do you write? I mean, for me it's sort of like where's it going? What are you doing with it is the first consideration.
(02:14):
That's extremely dependent on that. Right now I'm actually working with, the voiceover blueprint, and they're they have a TV affiliate voiceover, series. They're doing like a course. And so I'm bundled, I'm bundled in with the course to creating the TV affiliate preset for the students. So and the reason that's so important is in that particular segment of promo, which is a, you know, it's a segment of a segment, you know, it's a it's a niche of a niche.
(02:44):
Right. And very, very often is the case. There is no audio mixer in post working on the audio. Right? So you send in that file, it gets dropped into a timeline and final cut or who knows what, and that it goes on to the air. Because first of all, a speed is is the essence because it's always the same day, right?
(03:05):
Everything is for tonight's news at five or 6 or 11. So that's one. Two. Yeah.
It's it's this just in.
Everything is everything is time sensitive. Always. And then, then it's just budgets, you know, they don't have a sound mixer working on these mixes. I didn't know this. Like, from an insider's perspective. I found out through listening to my clients voiceover, you know, their their their way. They sounded on commercials, not commercials, TV affiliate spots. And the first one that pointed out to me years ago is Randy Thomas.
(03:43):
She's like, I'm hearing my voice in this and it's buried. It's not clear or I'm not very easily heard, like, what's going on? Guess what? They're not doing anything to your audio. You're sending them raw audio, which you should be. And it sounds good, but they're not sweetening it at all. So what are we going to do? We're going to make a preset so that you can give them this pre sweetened audio.
(04:08):
They can drop it into the timeline and get the job done. And you still sound crisp clear loud. Everything that you know you'd want it to be. It's a really weird thing. It's like engineering voiceover into a production where I'm not part of the production.
Part of the process. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
(04:28):
You're like, you're like predictively processing because you don't even know how it's really going to sit in there, but you just. Right. This is the one time when it's excusable to process your voice, when your clients aren't responsible enough to do it.
Yes. So this is this is a I would say one of the more extreme cases. Right. But there are a lot of cases where the end they end user is not hiring engineering, they're not hiring an audio production team at all. This is, I'm sure, increasingly the case. So somebody has to do it.
(05:00):
Yeah. And on the other end of the spectrum, then, I mean, for me, if you were sending it to an audio engineer, and I actually did a webinar a couple of weeks ago on sort of home studios and stuff, and we touched on processing, but I what I was sort of saying in there was, if you are sending it to an engineer and you feel like you need to do something to it for whatever reason, firstly, have a reason for doing that.
(05:22):
I mean, if the reads kind of fairly dynamic, then, okay, maybe a tiny bit of compression and we talked about what that might look like, you know, maybe some HQ changes. But I mean, again, just to sweeten it, I mean, for me, the sort of message I tried to leave the viewers with was it's going to an audio engineer.
So if you if you feel like you have to touch it, you want to leave them in a position where they're actually going. Well, I've got a really good starting point now and there's everything that everything's there that I need. I don't have to do my noise reduction. I don't have to, you know, the click click or whatever.
(05:55):
I will be click off. Yeah, exactly. Delivered in a, in a nice sort of way in that respect. But don't box the in where you've done so much to it that they're now in this position where they're going, Holy shit, how do I get out of this?
It's a team effort. It has to be a team effort. If there's an audio production team involved, you're on their team. Yeah, you guys are on a team together. So if the coach says send it flat, send it flat. If the coach says, you'd be sure. Helpful. If you do a little send your audio and this is what we'd like you to do, then you are part of the team now.
(06:24):
You're not getting paid to be part of this learning team, which is a problem. But you are part of a team. And so that's what they're looking for to get the job done better, for worse. Right or wrong, you got to do what they want and what they expect. Now you're not going to like you know what to do in that case.
(06:44):
And that's why I've been making these presets and stuff for people for a really long time, because I'm just trying to fill in that blank that depending on the work, you know, some of it's very nuanced, especially commercial work. If you send in a commercial audition and it sounds processed, it's the kiss of death.
Yeah, you'll scare them off.
They just don't want that. Yeah, that'll totally scare them off. Right. So it's just it's a very nuanced thing. But in terms of the genres, they're all different. They all need a different amount. And a lot of it is it's it's subjective, guys. It just is subjective. I don't have a magic sauce for what is the perfect setting for every environment.
(07:28):
I'm just going to listen to every.
Voice to.
And every voice, and I'm going to listen and do my best and see you know, I'll do processing for folks and I'll get feedback like I sound too sibilant or I still have too much mouth noise. And what I'll usually say is, you know what to you, you do. But to me, the listener, you don't. And so then, then it's like a really difficult balancing act because you're like, I know you're hearing those things and I know they're bothering you, but to me, they're they're subdued enough that I don't want you scrubbing them out of the audio, thereby making it sound less natural and sound more filtered.
(08:07):
And now you're going to have more little artifacts that you don't really notice, but a professional does.
And that's the thing, right? Coming back to what we said, you know, sending it to an engineer, I'm not going to care whether it is mouth clicks and sibilance, because that's a, you know, a couple of minutes and that's fixed for me. But if you're sending it to someone where there's no processing going on, then sure, maybe that's when you do.
(08:27):
So it's more about not just going, I've got a process. Everything is sort of I reckon the message out of this episode.
Really, it's nuanced. It's knowing who you're working with, your client, what do they want? Talk to them.
Do you ever get asked IP?
No, I don't never have been. Never. But I do what I can do if I'm concerned that they're not going to do anything at the end, I will probably. Yeah, I will probably just change them. I can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just use like a 41 six.
(08:57):
Something that you know. Yeah. It's got some cotton.
And then they normalize it minus three or something and then shoot it off.
Good plan. But you've also got a great room you know that's the thing. And you've also got the I got a cupboard full of microphones that any fucking voiceover artist would fall over themselves for today. So you need a kind of privilege position.
Another another thing you can do, and I think this is definitely something that's going to be done more often by the more experienced, you know, voice actor slash producers is sending a dry and a wet. So if you if you've never worked with them before ever and you're concerned. So this is this I think is a real concern.
(09:36):
They may ask you for the file flat or dry, but you send it to them that way and they got them. It's not really doing it because they don't know that. The way it sounds when they want it to sound good is not flat and dry. It's actually processed.
So there's just so here's just.
Asking for something that they think they're supposed to ask for because other businesses or, or listings on one, two, five or whatever said do this. And so they do the same thing. And then so but if you send them two takes, one wet, one dry, I bet you 90% of the time they'll probably pick the wet file.
(10:15):
So here. So here's an idea. First of all. Yeah. I mean, like they asked for stuff they don't want all the time. Like, don't read it like an announcer and then they direct you into something else.
Can you put some more emphasis on that word, and can you pause here, and can you. Yes.
That's right.
Yeah. But what if you send a stereo file with the left side completely dry and the right side way over compressed and maybe over echoed? And the idea is that you just dial a blend between.
(10:46):
Like a parallel.
Compressor. Yeah. And then you're like a little bit more and a little bit less. This is a really loud spot. I can't get it to cut through anything like all the way over to the right side, kill it and EQ it like, and you could and then they don't even know. They don't have to know what they're doing other than to just a little bit more left and right.
(11:06):
So. George. Sorry, Robert. Sorry. Let me let me ask you a question, because I know the answer to this, and I'm sure George does too. I want to see how you go. What is what is the one? Whether it be what is the one plug in? And I'm not talking brand or anything, but like, type of plug in that a voiceover artist should never, ever, ever put on their voice a gate.
(11:29):
Thank you.
Yeah, please.
Especially a hard gate like an expander.
Maybe it has to be done there. So yeah, if anybody knows you're using it, you're not using it.
Everything's got to be everything's I mean I mean, when Robert and I make sessions, everything's subtle. You know, I don't grab handfuls of anything unless I absolutely have to to rescue something. And everything is done subtly. And so it should be even more subtle when you're talking about the raw ingredients.
(11:59):
Yeah.
I did a session the other about them last week, last Friday to do something.
Yeah.
Yeah I remember and it was, it really got nothing to do with processing. Well kind of in a funny way. But they showed me they wanted to do the playback of the film that shot, and it's a 32nd spot. So they had a guide track on their guide read, because we were sort of like, I think this script is too long anyway.
(12:29):
But wait, no, no, no, we'll show you the we'll show you the video 32nd spot. So it starts off by the time it gets in the middle at time compress the guide read right.
So the fuck.
It's never going to fit because you just time compressed. The guide read. How do you think this is going to work? So anyway, so we're rewriting the script as we go. And they've gone, okay, now there's also a Sonic at the end. How long is a Sonic 2.5 seconds. Okay, so we've got to get this at 27. So we've already gone at 38.
(12:59):
So now we're trying to cow down to 27. So a chop chop chop anyway. But they said do you think you can get this at 27. I said yeah I think I can. Let's give it a go. So we do it bang. By the time the deep breath. Yeah 27 seconds they go, okay. Now can we put more emphasis on this and this.
You going the reason this is 27 seconds is because we can't do that.
(13:23):
Yeah. Holy smokes. Fucking hell. Yeah. That stuff never ends.
And that's what you're dealing with.
Food time, food prices, they guide track. Yeah. Seriously.
It's like if it's under Sky Trek.
You've just quite a long time.
Pretty obvious before you even started.
But I mean, if you want to talk about the ultimate in processing, go back and listen to the episode where we interview Jeff Perlin.
(13:45):
Yeah.
Yeah. It's really yeah, layers and Pro Tools, you know. And so he's yeah, he's running. He's reading and acting out a blessing.
Bunch of stems to.
These different stems. And at the end of that take he's already got three different levels of processing soft medium.
(14:06):
And yeah that.
Through the wall. That's next.
That's next level.
Yeah that's good could I.
Yeah that's that's like panning across the multitude. Yeah.
Right. And I could set that up for anybody. Anybody if any of us could do that that knows how to do it. But then you have all these extra choices to make. And so you really have to decide what it is then that you're giving them and then, you know, so I think that's going a two far, you know.
(14:32):
But again the Jeff's a pro and he's been doing the imaging and everything for ever. So he knows what he can, what makes sense for him and his workflow. The those are the capabilities of a multitrack doll that you can't do let's say with twisted wave with with like a twisted wave. You'd have to make them do the record, edit it the way you like, make a copy of it.
(14:53):
All right, all right. Have a dry copy. Take the dry copy, run it for a stack. Have that be stack X. You know, version one. Maybe you have a second stack of dry cut dry and process the dry file only.
But that's because twisted wave is not a door. It has no mixer. Right? To be a door, you have to have a real time mixer, right? If not, it's not a door, right?
(15:17):
Right.
It's a file. It's a file.
And theoretically, I think a doll also has to be nondestructive or no.
Yes, I would say so, yes.
So yeah.
The other type of processing before we disappear we should touch on is is noise reduction because that's the other one that I get sent files occasionally and I have to go back and say, look, I hope you've still got the original file. Can you send me that? Because.
(15:43):
Because your noise reduction sounds like.
Yeah. And the thing. The thing.
Yeah, it's it's a form of. Okay.
So the thing that, well, the point that I made the other night in my webinar was that noise reduction was originally created just to get rid of camera noise out of location sound. That was all it was. It was just a subtle thing to tidy it up. Right. So when you think about your noise reduction, that's the way you should think about it.
(16:05):
You shouldn't be thinking about it in terms of getting rid of the dog barking next door or the kid crying in the next room or whatever. It's something that's just, again, something subtle. So the obvious place to start is to have a room that's set up right to begin with, and then deal with anything that's left. Don't try it.
Don't try and use your plugins to fix problems. I guess is what I'm saying, because that's not what that.
(16:27):
This is a thing to caution people with two you can you can have something that sounds a bit like garbage, and then you can throw some noise reduction thing on it, especially some of this new AI noise reduction. You can go, oh my God, it took care of it completely. But then when you listen to it closely, it's got that synthetic sound.
It's got no top. And and it's. Yeah. And and just because you're so impressed on the first blush doesn't mean that is actually.
(16:54):
And then you process on top of that you compress in EQ and everything on top of that, and all of a sudden it's a massive big mess.
Bring it all out. Yeah. That's right.
Yeah. I watch a YouTube channel, an F1 YouTube channel, and there's one guy, one of the hosts on this thing. He uses the gate because he's always in a hotel room or he's on location somewhere, but he just goes so hard on this thing.
(17:16):
And as an engineer, there's nothing you can do because it's gone forever. You know? It's just it's like just like it's like going and going into your recording and just randomly cutting out bits of audio and then sending it off and going, well, he's my he's my takes. Yeah.
It's a gate is the ultimate and destructive bugger. I mean there's nothing more destructive than mute pieces of audio.
Yeah. I mean the thing is I mean s is and. Yeah, and some of those f sounds and stuff like that are easy to fix because you can, you can, you can sort of cut one and sort of they're easy to cut. But some of the other sounds, when these gates are cutting off you can't replicate them.
(17:48):
It's a pain in the ass though. It's like, yeah, like, don't do that gaming is all this stuff can be done after the fact. And what makes you think that the audio engineer, except for these people who are running so fast to production or to to posting a cheap that they're not process. Yeah. But realistically anything you can do every I mean even the video editor should be able to do better than you, I think.
(18:14):
Yeah, sure. Maybe not.
Well, I saw a post, this morning actually, when I was just going through the feed and there was a guy they were talking about microphones, and it was. I can't remember what microphone was. I think that had a UAD seven up there or something. And it basically says what we said. It's like it doesn't matter how expensive your microphone is if your room's shit is going to sound shit.
Yeah.
We said that a million times. A good miking a shit room is still going to sound terrible.
(18:38):
And then you're my technique.
Yeah, my technique is the other. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right.
So unbelievably important. Yeah, I would, I would argue to say that my technique is first in the room.
Second depends how bad the room is.
I suppose you can get away with a terrible room if your mic is in the, you know, just in the right spot and you delivery is just the right volume and you can probably get away with a totally garbage room with the right mike technique.
(19:04):
Well, it is starting with the premise that you don't have anything unless you have a microphone anyway, right?
Right, right. Yeah. But like like when people get a check for me, which I do a ton of those, you know, I'll give them an evaluation about my technique and I'll give them an evaluation, the acoustics. And sometimes they'll say the acoustics are maybe eight out of ten, but I bet if you got a little closer to the mic, it would sound 9 or 10 out of ten without touching the acoustics.
(19:30):
So if you want a free acoustics upgrade, moving like, you know, it's one of those weird things. They all interact. So, I do that all the time, and then oftentimes they're like, oh wow, I had no idea. It is far more common for a voice actor to have their mic too far away in their home studio than it is to have it too close, in my experience.
(19:50):
Yeah, that's just been what I see too.
Too close. You can EQ the issues away for the most part. You can get rid of that box.
I had too much gloominess.
Yeah, you just just don't have the money, right? That's all. Get really close and don't pop it. And you can probably EQ the rest of it.
Yeah. I think the key, if you're in a bad environment is my technique and gain. Yeah. Right. If you get those two correct then you're okay.
(20:12):
And the other thing, the other thing too, I reckon that some, some people with home studios get carried away with is in a home studio. There's always going to be some issues. Okay? You've never going to get a perfect room in a home environment unless you've got, you know, I.
Whispering.
Something, right? Unless you unless you're buying something in, if you're just building a booth in a, in a walk in wardrobe or in a room or something, there's always going to be issues. So you've got to expect that what you want to do though, is just minimalize. Those just work on sort of bringing them down to a point where it's really not an issue within your recording and then sort of worry about any other processing, rather than trying to just fix it all by slapping a bunch of plugins on it because it's yeah.
(20:56):
They'll just don't process your voice unless, you know, your client's not going to do it.
Just time and time and place. Just think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. Why you're doing it is the biggest question. The first question you should ask yourself is, okay, why am I doing that? I'm doing it because there's no one at the other end who's going to do it. Sure, I'm doing it because I want to deliver Robbo something that's easier for him to get a starting place from.
(21:18):
And I'm not going to disrupt his workflow. Sure.
And say something else for like the more green engineers out there, because you can hear something that you don't like, and you can ask the voiceover talent to change their mic placement to get closer to whatever you are hearing. And you can solve your problem from the input instead of going like, oh yeah, that guy was like far away from the like.
(21:41):
And now I got to fight, fight all this. I can.
Fight. You said that I really feel like more engineers have to be better at communicating with the talent, what they need, instead of just going get a different mic. I don't like the way that Mike.
Yeah that's right. Yeah, exactly.
It's like, you know, it's just as vague. It's not actually true in many cases.
(22:02):
It's condescending. Yeah.
It's just like get a better mic or whatever the dumb thing they say to the talent, it's kind of honestly disrespectful and belittling of the talent. I think, you know.
And there are engineers out there who have that, that mentality about voice over, I would say it's completely unfair and unfounded, especially in this day and age where Jesus, let's be honest, they're sort of almost on stage as equals with us in terms of expectations from clients and what they need to do on their end.
(22:27):
They get paid.
More than they do. Yeah, there's always that. That's right. Maybe, maybe we should start saying, look, I'll do the voiceover and the production and then we can get paid more.
I've been saying that for years. I just didn't have the right soapbox to stand on. Yeah, it's always made me mad that the actor is expected to throw in production as a part of the cost of doing business. Like if I was the actor invoicing the jobs, I would have a line item for production. Every single time I.
(22:56):
Would have a line item for my booth.
Yeah, one.
Space that I'm recording in.
Yeah.
I do actually, on my invoices. I have, studio edits and Swords Connect as well.
Absolutely.
Yeah. But when I invoice, I always have it at zero, but I just make sure they know it.
But if they don't see it. Yeah, if they don't see it on the invoice, you're not educating the client about what the value is they're actually receiving from you. If you just say voice over $20.
(23:27):
They don't even need education. The clients know it. The clients put in auditions that say, must have your own home studio, blah, blah, blah. They know what they're really saying is we will not pay for an outside studio. If you don't have an in-house studio and you have to go out, you're paying for it yourself. And I've seen some voiceover talent get a gig that they care enough.
(23:48):
About enough that they actually foot the bill for an outside studio because their client.
Oh, this is increasingly common. Yeah. Not even beyond that. Buying extremely specialized hardware. I have a client who is doing voices utility voice for, I won't say the show. It's to be too specific. I would point fingers, but doing utility voice for an extremely popular animated cartoon series, right. And in order for her to do the job, she has to buy an extremely arcane piece of audio IP equipped, right?
(24:26):
So arcane that I had never heard of the brand. I went to all the usual dealers like DSW and everything. Nobody, nobody carried it. I went to the. I went to the website of the company that makes the product, and I found it in Europe, of course, and there was one US distributor that sells it. And I was like, that's the thing you have to buy as a voice talent to do the job for the thing that they hired you to do.
(24:52):
That's just crazy to me. So crazy. It's like, and it's only getting me used for that one thing. It's not like Source Connect, where it's so universal and popular and used in so many productions, is like one specialty box. I'll tell you offline what it is. Robert. But I was like, what on fricking planet Earth is going on here, you know?
(25:13):
And she had to do the same thing. She has a second studio in New York. She she had an apartment. She's do the same thing there. So she had to do it at home. And then this guy came in, installed all of it, and was really a kind of a jerk about it. And then he added noise problems that I had to come in and fix because he added a ground loop in the process.
And then she got her partner in New York and has to buy that same box again for the free apartment in New York, just so she can do this.
(25:41):
And then she can't sell it because no one else wants it.
Right? That's the thing is, it's highly boutique. Like I was like, what is this? What is this? So, you know, I know this is a weird. But the.
Other hand, if the gig if the gig pays for it, you know, if the gig is good enough for.
The gigs, not paying for the gig, she has to make back the money during the gig.
(26:04):
No, no. Right, right. But the gig.
I'm not getting the money well enough. Yeah, it's paying for it. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. It's like price of entry. I also understand the flip side of that. But yeah, at the same time it's like, come on, like move on. You know, I can't believe it. The other day, some guy was, had a session and asked us for an iced Enbridge. I was like, we don't do that anymore. And he's got one client.
(26:31):
I was like, where is that one last? I asked him, why in the world, like, Holy cow, I literally, George, I don't know if I told you this. I threw out a stack of zephyrs six feet tall.
No way.
I was like, what am I going to do with them? They cost you money to get rid of them.
That is bonkers.
(26:51):
You could done, like, the Red Hot Chili Chili Peppers so you could fly away on your Zephyr.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, if you calculate that at the price of the original thing, I threw away, like $100,000 worth of Zephyr somehow.
Which is now worth nothing, though.
I've got one staring at me as we.
Speak. They're not worth, like, not even 20 bucks apiece. That's why I was, you know, I was like.
Somebody told me that she sold one for $50 recently, and I was like.
(27:15):
Who pays $50 for what are you going to do? Oh, boy.
I was like, I'd love to know.
What's going to happen is the price will goes up slightly again once there's none left, and then you find it's like the price of like a mach two sky. It was actually like, ridiculous, right? You know, like, who's going to pay $500 for Mac?
It's a 30 year old computer about that.
(27:39):
Yeah. I mean, it's the Mac classic.
Thousands, thousands and thousands of dollars.
I pulled out my Nintendo 64 the other week. What's that worth? I've got about a dozen games go with. And what's that worth these days?
What about my Betamax? What's that with?
Well, I mean, but those things at some point become worth more because someone's got one tape left and they can't play it back. And like, damn machines are hitting that that kind of realm where if you can find a working day, I still.
(28:03):
Use my portable that.
It's worth it.
Yeah, that's totally true. If it's a medium that's dying, then you really need to have a machine that can play that medium. And those are.
And if it's working, yeah, if it's working, you got some money here? I got.
A mini disc.
I think it's a nice. Got a mini disc to. Yeah. Yeah.
I felt bad about tossing these things, but at the same time it's like, what am I going to do with them? I can store them in my basement all, all their life. Yeah. Like they just.
(28:30):
Like you can put them under the sofa. So when you get older, you don't have to bend over so much when you stand up.
I was using some of them like, like half. The thing is I'm trying to get my basement worked on, and I was using some of them to keep other, more valuable objects off the ground. When water came in.
It was like the white trash television stand, which is the old TV that holds up the new TV.
(28:52):
So.
I made use of everything.
So we should finish up this episode by by saying that I reckon in terms of processing, when in doubt, just don't use my my honest opinion. Yeah, or.
At least capture a copy of this.
Or keep a clean copy.
Always, always, always have a dry, unmasked wet and dry file no matter what. Always, always.
(29:19):
Can always process offline. If you're going to.
Process live.
Capture dry.
Yeah yeah.
Yeah. Process the file. Don't corner yourself. Right.
I just there's a resurgence of front end processing thanks to the universal audio follow.
Yeah. Right.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean all of a sudden now I mean normal people that wouldn't normally have a rack gear have access to every. Damn. If I have to see another Apollo plug in chain with a Vox box in it, can I just because you have access to a $4,000 fake piece of gear doesn't mean you default. Use that plug in for everything you do.
(29:56):
Yeah.
So I mean, unless you've got a read that's like ridiculously dynamic and you want to put a little bit of compression over it to stop it, you know, distorting into the box, there's, there's no real.
Reason to that. It won't do that if you're ready. Digital like that makes sense. If it's an actual analog piece it's going ahead. Is your converter I have this argument. I don't know, argument discussion with with a friend of mine, and I think it's a generational thing. I grew up initially doing all my recordings to tape. You would over EQ.
(30:29):
Rob I'm sure you know this. Like, oh, I'm recording the tape. I'm going to over boost the high end EQ going on the tape, because I know when it comes back, it's going to come back a little bit dull. Sometimes. So, so you're kind of doing that predictive thing or I know I'm going to bounce and then ProTools comes out and it's affordable.
And I remember distinctly going, I'm just going preamps right into ProTools and I'm going to do all that stuff afterwards, make like all my decisions later. And that's the way I do everything now. So and I'm talking to some some engineers and they're younger than me and they're now all about like processing everything going down into the computer.
(31:09):
And I'm like, why are you doing that? Right? It's better. It's this. But you're cornering yourself. And and I understand the, the idea that one of two things, either I only have one of these xyzzy magic boxes. So I want to process on the way in and get the most use out of it by doing multiple things with it.
Maybe. Or I'm so good at my decisions on the front that I know I'm going to want all this, and so I don't need to slow myself down by doing it later. But I will track in and I will while tracking a band. I don't have my processing on the playback and I'll start dialing in my sound, so I'm saving myself that time already.
(31:51):
But I'm not cornered, right? And besides, a few things like high pass filters make sense on the way in because it's going to hit the converter. Maybe a little bit of protection if you're worried about your levels and the, you know, clipping. But I don't get it. Like, you know, converters are so good. Everything is so clean.
(32:12):
Dynamic range is massive.
Oh yeah, you can do it all in post and have have all your decisions later. Yeah.
No, it's it's same.
Thing with these Apollo plugins and the and the.
Front end processing is insidious. Head for voice actors because they as soon as you process on the front end you're now engineering while your voice.
Down and you can't undo it.
(32:33):
That's wrong and you can't undo it.
You can't undo.
It. Just can't. So please, guys, think about it.
Yeah.
Very hard when you say, I want to process all this stuff. I'm like, what's this? Think about what you're doing. If I get people that are coming to the Apollo and they're like, can you make me some setups? And I go, listen, what are these for? Well, I just want my auditions to x, y, z. I'm like, that's what we do in post.
(32:54):
That's we'll do that in audition. We'll do that in twist a way for do it. And you don't need to do that in the Apollo. So I've, I've way backed off on the amount of processing here the Apollo. And it's really now very much just a very sweetening cleaning thing or a very special delivery like someone is a pro promo voice and does promo all day and they have a certain sound they have to achieve.
(33:18):
Okay. That's a specialty thing. But other than that, if.
You know what you want and you're willing to absolutely commit, right? And you know that note, then fine. You know, you're saving some time. Possibly.
That's a that's a different mentality. Plus the promo people use headphones and they listen to themselves through the processing.
That's a whole but but the US got that record button. They can listen to themselves for.
(33:40):
The price has a minor. Yeah, sure. Minor. Yeah, yeah.
And you know there's.
A lot of yeah.
Almost nobody I have one client I set that up with ever. So it's just interesting. Yeah.
Everyone just puts it in the record mode and they.
They just make it and go on.
Yeah. Yeah.
I don't get it. Why you want to hear what you sound like when you've been processed.
That's a radius.
(34:00):
If you're, if you're, if you're playing the microphone and you're playing the compressor and the maybe you're that in tune with it.
It's definitely something that some promo people do. They think listen, they like hearing the little weird sounds in their voice at the quietest portions of the sound, you know, so that all that compression really boosts it. But that's the thing of printing that.
(34:22):
That's right. You might not do that, but I don't. That's not it's nothing.
Yeah I don't want to do it either.
But it's that's why angry audio. Angry audio makes this headphone amp that does all that crazy ass processing for the headphones.
Yeah. There you go. Well, there.
It's it's basically a horror band. Yeah. It's basically an orb. And freaking multi.
(34:44):
In the in the.
Monitoring chain that has all your processing on it. And exactly.
Yeah, I can understand that if you're a singer, but I don't understand it. If you're doing voiceover I don't get it. I don't know why you want to hear in your headphones something that's different to what you're actually capturing. Oh what I want to hear what's going on the tape.
I guess if you're talking about singers in general, they all want to hear set different things to and all that sort of stuff. Everybody's different.
(35:07):
Yeah. So sometimes it the singer, it's not even so much that they know that they want to do it. Sometimes if you make the singer sound good in their head, I can.
Make their.
They're more inspired and they perform better. I agree, and maybe in a subtle way, that's the same thing with the tail whip. Like, it's sounding so big.
And because if you're listening to yourself and then you're going, oh, fuck, I don't sound right, you're not really concentrating on your performance 100%.
(35:32):
I know you're not.
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, I, I encourage people to stop doing that.
But you know, yeah.
You don't get whatever you do. That's the biggest don't for me. Don't gate leave.
The gates at the farm. Oh, well that was fun. Is it over the pro audio. Sweet. Thanks to driver and Austrian audio recorded using Source Connect, edited by Andrew Peaches and Nick. Spyro the go. Do your own audio issues. Just ask Rob Aucoin. Tech support for George the Tech William don't forget to subscribe to the show and join in the conversation on our Facebook group to leave a comment, suggest a topic or just say goodbye.
(36:11):
Drop us a note at our website.
Rodeo is.com.
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