March 20, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of The Profitable Christian Business Podcast, we sit down with Joey Mure, co-founder of Wealth Without Wall Street, to uncover the principles of financial freedom and passive income. Joey shares his personal journey from mortgage loan originator to successful entrepreneur, helping thousands achieve financial independence.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ Why traditional retirement is a flawed concept
✅ How to build cash flow instead of just saving money
✅ The biggest mindset shift that helped Joey scale from $2,500 to over $50,000 in monthly passive income
✅ Why financial stewardship is a biblical principle every Christian entrepreneur should embrace
✅ The secret to stop trading time for money
If you’re tired of the Wall Street trap and looking for alternative ways to grow wealth, this episode is a must-listen!
Connect with Joey Mure:
🔗 Wealth Without Wall Street: www.wealthwithoutwallstreet.com/profitablechristianbusiness
🔗 Facebook: facebook.com/wealthwithoutwallstreet
🔗 Instagram: instagram.com/wealthwithoutwallst
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/wealth-without-wall-street
🚀 Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and share this episode with fellow Christian entrepreneurs!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
1Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of Profitable Christian Business. I am so pleased to have my guest, Joey Marais with me. Joey, how are you today?
2So good man. Glad to be with you.
1Nice. Go ahead for the audience and go ahead and give a little short introduction of yourself.
2Yeah, well, I don't know where you want me to start. You know, there was a man and a woman back in the 1970s that got together. No, I, so, man, I'm. I'm a disciple of Christ, a husband and father of five, daughters, who is is really seeking to educate people on how money actually works and give them true freedom through passive income.
(00:52):
2That's what wealth without Wall Street is all about, exposing people and encouraging and empowering them to take back control of their money and to make it work for them, not for Wall Street.
1That is that is awesome. And we're going to dive into exactly how you do that as we as we go through this. But first, I'd like to start out with some fun getting to know your questions. And the first one is if you could time travel and give your younger self one piece of financial advice, what would that be?
(01:21):
2I would say you are the steward of the money that God has given you, and Wall Street is not a substitute. You have to become an investor yourself. You can no longer stand on the sidelines and say, hey, I just don't feel like I'm that smart with money. I don't feel like I know what to do with it.
2So I'm going to abdicate that to someone else. That is never been God's designed for anything. All of your resources. You are called to be a steward of, and there's no excuse. You have to become an investor at that point.
(01:54):
1That's brings me I know we we're going to dive into some getting to know you questions, but that prompts some other questions for me. So, are you saying that you should not hire a financial planner? You should be the own steward of your own money.
2I believe you can always take advice. You can always get people who have maybe more experience, but at the end of the day, there's no substitute for you. It would be very similar to, like there's nothing else in your life that you would do that with, like with, for instance, your health be like, well, man, I'm just never been in a gym.
(02:27):
2I don't really understand how it works. I don't know what all my metrics are that I need to be watching, so I'm just going to let someone else do that, right? That doesn't work. Now, you can have a a trainer that you meet because they have the experience and you're but you're still actively participating, right? When it comes to your children.
2Well, I don't know what it's like to be a dad. I've never been a dad. So this first, this child comes into my life. I just I just seems too hard. I'm just going to let somebody else do it. No, like, these things are ludicrous, but we do it with our money. Because Wall Street and big banks have convinced us through their marketing messages, that they're smarter than us, that they need to hold on to our money as long as possible and that we can't.
(03:11):
2We just need to abdicate that to them. That is not the answer.
1To not give your money somebody. It's okay to get a coach or an advisor to help you that has the experience with the money, but you ultimately are just like you're responsible for your health. You're responsible for your own money.
2Exactly 100%.
1So here's another question for you. What's the most out of the box investment or business idea you've ever considered?
(03:37):
2Well, the one that I've done or the one that I'd consider. I'll give you both.
1Both? Let's hear both.
2The one that, we've had the most success with, which I think has been really cool, is our land flipping business. So, we interviewed a guy one time on our podcast. He was telling us he buys raw land at 20 to $0.30 on the dollar. He turns around and sells it to, retail buyers on terms where they can now own or finance that property back from him.
(04:07):
2And he just creates this massive note income. Well, we're like, this sounds awesome. But we don't have the bandwidth to do it ourselves. Like, it's not something that we are a great operators at a lot of things. We just know that about ourselves. And so we hired this group to do it for us, in a 70, 30 split, you know, and that business alone creates over $30,000 a month in passive income for us.
(04:34):
2So that's one of my favorite out of the box businesses that we've done. And, the thing that's kind of coming, you know, I think I'm excited about is we just recently had a guest who is in the pallet business, and I thought, that is a crazy idea. This is literally Doug. This is. No, no, like, he goes and he finds businesses that pallets are a nuisance to them, right?
(05:00):
2He goes to their business and they're sitting outside and they're all stacked up and they're collecting dust and rats and everything else, and they really need to get rid of those pallets. He offers to take them off their hands, free of charge. Right. Which is actually serving them, because in some ways, they don't want to pay somebody to come get them.
2And they they don't want to have their resources on finding a way to get rid of them. So he's actually doing them a service. He then turns around and finds other businesses that have to buy pallets on a very regular basis. And he literally transports them from where the business doesn't want them to, where the business wants to buy them, and he sells them, on average, 8 to $10 a pallet with zero cost to acquire.
(05:44):
2That, to me, is a crazy business model that I want to figure out, and I want to put in operators that can run it for me. So it's passive for me, but super, super lucrative in the process. So that's my my horizon deal that I'm looking at it.
1That's pretty cool. I, had someone early on when I started this podcast as the entrepreneur Journey that was, in the land flipping business. I think it's, really, really cool in that it's again, low overhead you not have to deal with as much as you do with typical real estate. Really cool. And I have, a client that's in the pallet business, I think more in a traditional sense, though, that they actually create the pallets and sell them to factories and things.
(06:25):
1But, yeah, I have a little bit of knowledge around that too.
2That's awesome.
1So this is really fun. I don't know what your favorite style of music is or anything like that, but if you had a theme song that was like played it is who you are, right? So when you walk in a room, that's what that's that's what we play is kind of like your theme song.
2Well, you know, on our podcast, we refer to me as The Italian Stallion. Okay. It just something I got in high school that kind of stuck with me. And so the guys, we're, we're coming up with our our names and everything for the podcast, and I threw that out and they were kind of laughing at me, but it stuck.
(07:02):
2And so for me it's I add the tag, I mean, the Rocky theme music, you just get you fired up at least does me like, I'm ready to just, you know, run through a brick wall when I hear that.
1Yeah, I agree, any time, you're feeling down or maybe De-Energized just put that song on and it it gives you a little bit of energy, right? For sure. So nice. Nice. My my next question is our staple question. It's a fill in the blank question. First, before I ask that, you mentioned your podcast several times.
(07:33):
1What is the name of your podcast.
2Wealth without Wall Street?
1Nice, nice. And how long you've been running that?
2That's since two, 2017.
1Nice, nice. And is it a I'm just going to ask you more questions about your podcast, because I'm sure the audience would be really interested. Is it just you on there? Do you interview people? What's the kind of the format?
(07:53):
2Yeah. So Russ and I, Russ Morgan and I are business partners. We we jointly run the show, and, we, we have a guest typically once a week. And the other in the second, episode of each week, we typically do a roundtable episode where it's, Russ and I and maybe one or 2 or 3 of our coaches sharing their expertise on a, specific matter or specific subject matter.
(08:20):
2And, so we kind of mix it up where once a week you have a different flavor than the other one.
1Nice. So what kind of guests do you have in your podcast?
2We have typically had people on. Since our show is about financial freedom, we are typically either interviewing somebody who has a passive income idea that could start as a side hustle and then turn passive, like that's that's kind of one of the parameters or a reduction of your monthly expenses. So if we can increase passive income and reduce monthly expenses, that's where we get to freedom anyway.
(08:54):
2So those are the kind of people we interview outside of. Also some of our clients, we also do bring our clients on just to share their journey because I think, you know, people learn and they can relate to where people are and they say, wait a minute, I could see myself doing the same thing, but we want to always, kind of inspire that, that process.
(09:15):
1Yeah, I think that fits right in because you look over at the name of this podcast, profitable is right in the middle when you decrease expenses, increase income. That's where the profit lies, right? For sure. So awesome. Awesome. Now we're going to get to the fill in the blank question. The key to financial freedom is not just about blank, but also about blank.
(09:36):
2I would say it's not just about money. It's I would say it's mostly about cash flow, not also, but, not just about money. It's about cash flow. And in that's the lie that Wall Street has kind of sold us on. And it's this idea of retirement. Retirement is a lie. It is never been. It's not a biblical concept.
(10:02):
2It's something that was kind of created, in the early 1900s, from a very scarce mindset that the labor force had to move on in order for there to be enough jobs for people. It wasn't based out of innovation or abundance, it was based out of scarcity. And it was a government idea at the end of the day.
(10:25):
2And so, the thought process, that you need to just stack up cash and put it into this big pile of money that is this mysterious number that nobody really knows what it should be, because they don't know what all the variables behind it is a lie. Because you're deferring life. You're deferring freedom until some point in your 60s.
(10:52):
2Or maybe 70s, and then you're hoping that that pile was so big that you could start peeling off dollars off the top and not run out before you die. And the the funny thing is, Doug, is there's I mean, everybody who's listening knows what I'm saying is true, but they just don't know the alternative. And in fact, this came to to be really clear to me, I was at the beach one time with my family and had my wealth.
(11:20):
2You know, I got my passive income shirt on right now, but I had a wealth without Wall Street shirt, and this lady, older lady comes up and she's like, hey, what's, what's that on your shirt? And I was like, oh, this is our company wealth. Wall Street. She says, well, what? What's that all about? So I start telling her and her first response is, well, we just retired this year, and, I hope it's enough.
(11:45):
2But that was that was the climax, if you think about it, like, put it in perspective. She's worked 40 years to this point. She's finally reached the summit. If you think about it like I've reached the summit of retirement. And her answer is, I hope it's enough. There's no abundance in that statement. There's no there's like there's no possibility of her starting to live like she didn't the previous 40 years because she's like all of a sudden got all this time, and now she can spend this money and live like she wants to live.
(12:23):
2No, in fact, it's the opposite. If she was already living somewhat scarce to that point, it's even more scarce at the top of the stack, because you can't afford to lose. And guess what? You're not in control of where all that money is and and all that. So anyways, I'm just saying people think about cash or stacking up money into an investment and then hopefully having enough.
(12:49):
2And it is the opposite. You have to build cash flow today from alternative assets that create that cash flow, so that you can spend that money in a way that either offsets your income today or truly provides, financial freedom.
1So some questions about that. Before we get to our secret question, we this may actually segue into the secret question. So you have passes passive income on your shirt. And so the idea would be to not use retirement as a lever. But thanks for tuning in to today's episode.
(13:27):
2As a Christian.
1Entrepreneur, we want to give you something like, you know what, your clients are working. Timken I'm going video on there for free. That's something in the statement.
2Thousands of dollars. Exactly how until you're you're building out who your ideal client. Okay. Compare that to the Wall Street for your business. The Wall Street Profits.
1Or the rest of.
2You may meet with a financial advisor and you set up a plan and you're like, I'm going to save X amount per month. And you know what? Based on this variable of how much the interest rate, or the rate of return is in this portfolio and based on this, variable, how much the taxes will be whenever I retire and based on this volatility factor based on blah, blah, blah, all this complexity, is it any shock that people get into their late 50s and they start looking at retirement and they're no where near the goal?
(14:21):
1Yep.
2There's way too much going on here versus if I give you the most simplest of formulas, Doug, if you have more passive income, then you have monthly expenses. You're free. So now all you have to do right now, and as you're listening to Doug and I have this conversation, you you do the math, you literally pull out a napkin and you say, I have $1,000 coming in from a rental property, or $1,000 coming in from a SaaS business that I started.
(14:50):
2And I have $10,000 a month in monthly expenses. I don't care what those monthly expenses are, but you just know this is my net. Every month in my household, I am 10% of the way to financial freedom right now, to that 1000. In the 10,000, I'm 10% of the way. So now I can pull the levers to increase, to get more and more of that passive income, to get to 10,000 a month.
(15:17):
2And then I'm free. I don't care about what the tax rate is at that time. I don't care about what the volatility of the market is. I'm just looking at what those assets produce every month. I'm tracking it and I'm putting it up against my monthly expenses. So I want to kind of keep my, a governor or my monthly expenses or I want to try to reduce them as I can, but the main focus is on the cash flow I can produce that will offset those monthly expenses.
(15:47):
2Then I'm free. Then I look at my calendar, and I only put the things on there that I'm passionate about, only put the things on my calendar that I want to engage myself with, the people I want to be with or impact right in my community, in my church, in my family, whatever that may be. Until then, you're constantly putting someone else's priorities on your calendar.
(16:14):
2That is a game changer.
1Yeah, time freedom. Not just money freedom, but time freedom, right? 100%. Which is the segue to the secret question what is the secret of to stop trading time for money?
2It all comes into you have to become an investor, right? You have to become an investor who looks at that formula that I just laid out. And you have to start making the system of where you put your money, support it. Okay, so case in point, I always like to give like a practical because you don't want to just keep this ethereal idea or ambiguous.
(16:50):
2It's okay, Doug, you tell me you want to be financially free. And let's say that you're 40 years old. Okay, well, I can then I can say, well, tell me what you're currently doing with your money that supports that goal. Or how fast do you want to be funded? Super. As fast as yesterday. Right. That's what everybody says.
(17:10):
1Yeah.
2They're they're beat up. They're they're tired of, you know clocking in clocking out. They're tired of the business running down instead of them running the business, whatever it may be. And I say what are you doing with money? And they say, well, I'm maxed out. My 41K, I'm putting money in an hour, an IRA, because my financial advisor said that that's a good place for you to put it, and I can defer taxes.
(17:35):
2I've got a 529 plan for my kids college and all these things. These are the things that I'm doing, and I'm paying off all my debts as fast as I can. All those things sound good, but then I bring it back to this. I say, when you put money in for one K, how does it support you becoming financially free today?
(17:56):
2Well, how much access can you get to the 15,000 a year that you're putting into it or zero? Okay, so you're telling me you're putting $15,000 away into A41K every year because it's helping you get closer to financial freedom or further from. And it's absolutely making me further from, because I'm literally putting money that could be used to create cash flow today into something I can't touch for in this case, if I'm 40 years old for at least the next 20 years, that is the opposite.
(18:30):
2Like all our whole goal when working with people is to point out the obvious you say you want this, but you're doing this. These things are in conflict. I don't care what the rate of return is on your forehead, K, or how bad it is right now, because we're in a freaking, you know, freefall in the stock market.
2I'm not I'm not even worried about if it's good or bad. On the rate of return. The simple fact that I can't use the money to produce freedom today immediately tells me I have to stop doing that. The same with an IRA, the same with 529. Place. All these things put money out of my control, out of my access, and they keep me from putting things into money or things that I can't produce passive income with.
(19:19):
2So again, there's a whole lot of that. We actually call this our passive income operating system, Doug. And we we walk people through all of these like critical thinking questions because to be honest, we've had a lot of noise in the market and there's a lot of things that sound good. But when they actually hold up against your role, like what you're trying to accomplish, a lot of those things become actually against your plan not to support it.
(19:48):
1So I want to ask this question, so are you would you say there are much better ways? I think you alluded to this, but there's much better ways in the stock market to and you'll have less control obviously, if you go into the stock market. But what about crypto?
2Well, here's my question to you. But by the way, this is a great question because fill in the blank with whatever that thing is. And what's my first question? I'm I'm agnostic to whatever you're doing with money, as long as it supports the very simple financial freedom formula. So here's my question to you on crypto. How much passive income is it producing for you?
(20:30):
2And you say, well, nothing. Okay. Well then at least it must be reducing your monthly expenses. Is it reducing a monthly expense? Oh no. No. Okay. So if it's not increasing passive income and it's not reducing a monthly expense, I can't be involved. It. Well logically you don't understand. I could put a dollar into this, this crypto coin and it could go to 100,000.
(20:57):
2Well it could do that. But in the meantime what have you lost in terms of the ability to get to financial freedom. You're you're betting on accumulation or appreciation. Those things are bets. There's are hopes. Those are not actually producing freedom. Now the person that put a dollar into crypto that went to 100,000 now has $100,000 to then leverage into a passive income.
(21:26):
2I'm not I'm not denying that that's possible. But what I am saying is we have to stop falling track to the hope strategies of equity, appreciation and accumulation because those do not support passive income greater than monthly expenses. And just that's where we have to draw the line and have a like a central point that we're making decisions objectively about.
(21:52):
1Yeah. Can you maybe highlight some of the, ways that you help people, generate passive income?
2Absolutely. Yeah. So so we first of all, we start with the passive income operating system. We use a concept called internet banking that I learned in 22,009. And then that was the game changer. That's like if you think about climbing the mountain of passive or financial freedom, and Everest is the top is where your passive income exceeds monthly expenses.
(22:22):
2That's like pay scale, right? Get this operating system put in place so that you now have access to more of your cash and you can start building passive income by leveraging it into assets that produce it. The second level, we call it the passive Income lab, which is just like go back to your college days, right? You go into a lab, it's hands on, right.
(22:44):
2You have to become a better investor. And the only way to do that is to put yourself in the way of coaching and in the way of community, that both of those things will make you a better investor, because now you're forcing yourself. You're giving yourself accountability to have the result. We have a 12 week program that literally walks you through how to in know what sort of investor you are, right?
(23:10):
2Does anybody know what their investor DNA is like? What's your investment like? The biggest question people normally ask me, Doug, is what do you invest in because it's wealth without Wall Street. I'm like, well, what sort of investor are you? They're like, what do you mean? Because I don't care if I invest in land. And I think it's great if it doesn't line up with your investor DNA.
(23:33):
2How God created you to see the world, how God has given you experiences and resources. Those things could be dramatically different, and you will have a very different outcome than I do. That's why I don't go chasing rates of return. Don't go chasing. Well, this portfolio has returned, you know, 80% over the last thing that that is garbage, right?
(23:56):
2It has to do with who you are as an investor. You have to then create a buybacks. Like once I know what sort of investments lined up with me, I now want to draw the lines around what fits my buybacks and what does it fit my buybacks. Okay, you say I want a piece of real estate. I'm going to be a real estate investor.
2I'm going to buy for long term rentals. Well, I only want them in this geographic area. And then all of a sudden the deal comes up and it's outside of that area. Am I going to buy it? If I've done the due diligence of creating that box, I can say no. I can say no to a good thing because it's not the best thing.
(24:34):
2Right? If it's in, specifically like an area that would be really good for short term rentals. And I have an opportunity, but I'm committed to long term rentals because that's my investor DNA. I'm going to say no, right. Because I've done the work of. So I figured out my investor DNA. I figured out my buy box.
2Now I can run fast into the things that will support my my goals. So yeah, we have the system, we have the lab, and then we have a mastermind for those who those people who already have installed some sort of passive income, and they're now trying to get to that final 100% of their monthly expenses. So we offer all those things and yeah, just want to help people figure out where they're at in that process.
(25:22):
1Yeah, I heard a lot about alignment and focus in there because it's a it's the whole thing. If you try and focus on all kinds of different investments, you get spread too thin, right? And you're not able to focus on being able to compound the investments that you are focusing on. Right.
2Exactly. Yeah. I always share the good and the bad with people. Doug. It's our passive income report we share every single month. This is me and Russ, our personal passive income. And over the years we've done a lot like we've got probably 20 different sources and all these different verticals. And to be honest, it's too thin, like we've done too many things.
(26:00):
2But what we do is we start to figure out which one are the winners that line up with us, and then we're starting to like, consolidate somewhat and say, these are the things that really we're getting the best results from. And so anyways, I just encourage people to do exactly what you're saying and find out it get more, get more like laser focused so you can have the best results.
(26:22):
1But in your case, when when you're helping advise people, I can see having more investments because you want to be able to tell people, you know, I've done this and I can tell you kind of how it pans out. So well, I.
2Mean, you've had people on your podcast who have great things to say. In fact, they they're good thought leaders. And if you're just listening to Doug and I'm not watching this online, I just did the air quotes. Okay. So thought leaders, I want to be a result leader, right? I want to show you my work. I don't want to just tell you about it.
(26:55):
2And so our passive income report is exactly what you said. We listened to all these people come on our podcast. It's 2017, and they were telling us how great these things are. And we said, I wonder if those are actually legit. And so we started doing them. And guess what? We report to the world, the ones that were legit and the ones that were not so legit.
(27:17):
2I do not buy an ice maker or ice machine. They, or at least the where we put it is the worst. It does not make any money. Do not buy an RV and try to rent it out. It will not be profitable. I'm just telling. Those are two things that we've done, recently years and they have not worked out well at all.
2So anyways, we we talk about a million things, but just letting you know be a result leader, not a thought through.
(27:43):
1Love that, love that. Let's talk about one of a lot of people's favorite financial advisors out there. Dave Ramsey. Right. He talks a lot about getting debt free. Like you're your number one focus should be get out of debt. Right. Why is being debt free not necessarily financial freedom.
2Well so think back to our financial freedom formula. Number one it's passive income greater than monthly expenses. Debt payments, the monthly payment you pay to a car loan. That monthly payment you pay on a student loan, monthly payment on your mortgage. Those are all included in your monthly expenses. But that's not the only story, right? You also have groceries.
(28:29):
2You also have utilities. You also have taxes. You also have all these. The cost of living will never go away. In fact, in recent years you've been a part of the inflation debacle. It's not as cheap as it used to be to just live without any debt. So if if you're keeping track, if I've paid off all my debt, I still have monthly expenses.
(28:55):
2And if I haven't been stacking up cash on the other side to produce passive income, buying assets that produce passive income, I will never. I'm still 0% of the way there, even if my monthly expenses instead of 10,000 are now 4000 or 3000. Whatever the number is, if I have zero passive income, I'm 0% of the way to financial freedom.
(29:18):
2I still can't stop my job. I still can't stop my business. And so that is the that's the kicker. Now, let me just say this. I disagree with Dave Ramsey on that because of that fact that just being objective. But I'll tell you this, Dave Ramsey, he's done a lot of good for people who are below water, the people that cannot breathe because they have allowed lifestyle to take over, and they need just a slap in the pants.
(29:46):
2They need somebody to help them get back to to zero. But when it comes to building actual freedom, his strategy is not going to help you get there. It's going to be a long term hope that you retire one day, maybe, possibly, and put money in the stock market that that's never going to create the freedom that we're talking about today.
(30:10):
1Do you believe in the concept of good debt?
2100%.
1Awesome. It's just how you leverage it, right?
2If you're leveraging as an investor, okay. Now people will leverage debt as complete morons. And they will and they will pay the price. It will absolutely come to haunt them. But when you use leverage in a known investment vertical that you have built, the acumen to be able to handle wisely. Leveraged debt is one of the fastest ways to creating the highest returns, the highest cash flows.
(30:48):
2And so you have to be smart about it. But yes, the 100% good debt is is your friend.
1I think a lot of people truly get this concept once they become homeowners. Because yes, you're going into a massive amount of debt usually when you buy a house. But lo and behold, 510 years later your home is suddenly worth two times what you paid for it right? So, that that to me is an example of of good debt.
(31:14):
2Well, I would disagree with you on that.
1Okay.
2More debt or mortgage debt is always a liability to you for your home, your primary residence. Because it's just that monthly expense column, right. If you if if you've all of a sudden bought an investment property that is creating cash flow above that mortgage, that's good debt. But your primary I am a big fan IT proponent. Try to find the house that you can live within your means or below your means with that.
(31:48):
2That mortgage is always a liability to you. The equity. Now, I will also be a proponent of this. Don't pay your house off. Paying your house off is one of the worst things that you could do with that excess cash flow, because it's it's keeping you from taking that cash that you could have been using to build passive income to just reduce your the, the balance, your monthly expense stays the same until it's paid off in full.
(32:17):
2But most people will not do that in a long, long time. And they've lost the ability to produce passive income. So, I'm going to just tell you your, your primary home, try to keep it as cheap as possible to borrow that money to buy it. Because there is always going to be an expense.
(32:37):
1Oh, I appreciate that. And I'm sure the audience does to let's talk about mindset for a minute. What was the biggest mindset shift that helped you scale your passive income? I think I asked you this. I read somewhere on your bio that you start with like $2,500 and now you're over $50,000 a month. So what's the mindset shift that caused that?
2Well, I'll tell you, this may hit home with some of you that are parents. I was sitting there driving my she was probably three years old at the time and, driving her to work, I was I was not I was driving her to her school. Excuse me? Her preschool.
(33:14):
1She wasn't going to child labor.
2No, I, taking her to school, and it was a rare morning because usually her mom had to take it because I was already at work. I was in the mortgage business before all this. Yeah. Man is a brutal, very time consuming business. And, so I was always at work, so I'm driving, and she says from the back seat, she says, there you go.
(33:37):
2Pick me up from school today. And I was like, that's kind of like, what? Of course, like, she already knows this or this. I was like, no, sweetheart, your mom's going to pick you up. And she says, why do you not go pick me up? Like, I got to go to work. Oh, why do you have to go to work?
(34:01):
2And you've had these conversations, right? With a three year old. They have all the words. That is super innocent. You love it. And you're like, it also annoys you. You know, kind of. So I'm sitting there, I'm like, well, I gotta pay for this car. I got pay for her house. I got to pay for the groceries. You know that we eat.
2And she says we already have car. We already have a house. We already have food. And I don't know about you, Doug, but it was the simplest lesson for me to hear my little three year old daughter was such wisdom. All she wanted was time with her dad. And I was sitting there saying, I have to go to work.
(34:51):
2And the the moment for me. And maybe this is something else for you. I don't know what it is for you, but it was that absolutely just driver in me that said, I don't have passive income. That is why I had to respond the way I did. I'm the only asset at work in my household that's producing income, and it's 100% active.
(35:19):
2I now am committed. I gotta find a way to produce passive income, because until then, I'm never going to have a different answer for my daughter. And guess what? When she's 13, not three, when she's 23, when she's 33, she's not going to be asking this question. She's not going to want to spend time with me. This is the time to create freedom.
(35:48):
2And I'm just telling you that was the motivation for me that said, okay, we got to get serious about creating passive income.
1So I think that's powerful for anyone listening. If you have a family, especially young children, and you just want in your heart to spend time like nothing's more precious than our time, nothing is more invaluable than our time. So I think you owe it to yourself. If you're listening and you think Jay could help you with your finances, to, give him a call, we're going to give.
(36:20):
1Put that information below for you to reach out to him. But, and now I want to kind of talk about your faith a little bit because, this is the Christian Business podcast, talk about how some of the how biblical principles play into how you help people.
2Well, I think number one, and the, the stewardship principle to me is huge. You know, you think back to the, the parable of the talents and I, you know, for years I just read that kind of like normal, you know, like, hey, these guys the, the five talent person and the two talent person, they're they were actively out there trying to to be good stewards or just, you know, faithful stewards trying to do the best that they could.
(37:07):
2And the ones, the, the one talent steward just, you know, just didn't know what to do. He just did a bad job. And it was it wasn't following through. But as I read this, in the last probably five years, maybe, maybe a little bit more than that, it struck me. I reread it, and the one talent steward, when he was being called out by the owner, he said, he said, why did you just put this one talent in the dirt and not grow it, you know, not do anything with it?
(37:42):
2And he said, I knew you to be a harsh master, one who sows where they are, reaps where they do not. So and all this sort of stuff. And and he said, you knew me to be a harsh master, and yet you did this anyway. And what so couple of things that stuck out to me. Number one, did the steward actually know the owner?
(38:08):
2Did he know the master? And then I think the the answer is no. It came out later. Like he actually didn't know the master. And then the second thing is he called him a wicked and slothful servant. And the takeaway for me is going back to one of the first things we talked about. There's no, excuse and no replacement of you as the steward of what God's entrusted to you.
(38:41):
2You have to actively be about taking the resources God's given you. And this is not just in money, okay? I don't want to make this just like, hey, this is be my just because I'm in the money business. This is about all the resources God's given you your time, your body, your money, your relationships, your experiences. All of these things are things God's calling you to steward well.
(39:07):
2And if you've been on the sidelines about your money and just an onlooker and a hope strategy, you can't afford to do that anymore. You cannot afford to do that because you're called to be the steward. And even when you mess up, there are going to be times when you will lose money. But guess what? You are still called to do your part to be the steward that you're called to be.
(39:36):
2That to me is one of the overarching things that has kind of, you know, propelled me and compelled me in this journey. And we obviously don't require people to be Christians to work with them in terms of our business, but I'll be, it's pretty amazing to see how many people really are attracted to what we do because they're like, you're right, I can't I I'm not having the results by letting somebody else do it anyway.
(40:04):
2So I better get in the game. You guys, I need your help, you know, to to equip me to be that steward.
1Yeah. Wisdom, right? Wisdom is wisdom. Like we know as Christians that that wisdom comes from God, but it's still sound whether they believe it came from God or not. It is. It is sound. We believe it came from God. So yeah, for sure. And my apologies for calling you Jay a minute ago, Joey.
(40:32):
2Oh, it's all right. Yeah. No worries.
1So, my next question is around generosity. So, how does how do you feel generosity plays into this whole financial picture?
2Yeah. I'll tell you what. Generosity. It really comes from someone who's been transformed by the generosity of God. You know, if you think about, just the, immense, immense gift that has been given to us as Christians, it was none of our own good. We're we're given grace. We are given mercy and, in salvation by no means of our own.
(41:15):
2Then we can be generous as stewards. But I'm going to take you back to the stewardship principle. If you believe that the money is yours, you will hold on to it. If you believe that everything good comes from through into Christ, then you will be generous. Above all, because you like being God. What do you want me to do with this money?
(41:40):
2It's a very small difference in terms of like the sentence that I'm saying, but the impact is is immense. I'm no longer hoarding money for my own good. I'm no longer, you know, I'm not just chasing return because I want to just stack up money, stack up money, stack money. I, I am actively asking constantly, God, what is it that you want me to do with this money that you are entrusting me to?
(42:09):
2I am only the receiver and I want it to flow through me according to your purposes. If it's not that, then it's all about me and it's all about my work and it's all about what I do. And so I think that's a shift that makes you super generous.
1Yeah. And this is from my own experience. Any time that I've felt financial pressure, we'll just call it. And I've gone out and I've done something generous for someone else, but that required me to give up my finances. I've been blessed past that and that financial worry was alleviated. And that's just my personal experience. I've always found that if you want to fix,
(42:52):
1And maybe, you know, I think it's supernatural, right? What happens?
2Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it it generosity begin is an act of obedience. And it's also an act of putting yourself under the authority of God. Right. It's no longer, again. It's no longer my resources. It's his. And again, I just think that that is that's the game changer. That. God. God always is after your heart.
(43:25):
2It's never about the money. That's why I think the church has really completely missed over the years. They read God's word in such a way that they're like, oh, give me the rules, which is basically what the Pharisees did. And Jesus called them out constantly over that. But if it was all about just ticking off the rules and saying so, case in point, the rich man is like, getting to heaven is like a rich, camel going through the eye of a needle.
(43:58):
2Right. If you just read that one thing, you're like, oh yeah, I don't want to be that rich man. You know, the rich man. It seems impossible for him to get to heaven, because it's like a camel go through the eye of a needle. Or if you keep reading, it's like the next sentence or the next two sentences.
2It says, for whatever is impossible with God or with man is it is possible with God. It's talking about all salvation, not just the rich man, but why everybody cannot get to heaven on their own. It's impossible.
(44:32):
1That's right.
2And and by the way, if you think about the context, what is a rich man? What constitutes a rich man? If you're an American, you're in like the top point 1% of all people in the world, wealth wise. So all of us would be rich in terms of if we're just talking about a scale. But it's all ultimately about Jesus is always after your heart, and money is just a great tool to reveal the heart.
(45:05):
2That's why he talked about it so much in his work. Yeah.
1So anyway, one of the stories that sticks out to me and a lot of people that think being rich is, evil or against God is the story of the rich man that would not give up his possessions to follow Jesus. It wasn't that he it was his heart posture. It was what he his riches were his idol.
(45:28):
1I'm sure that, you think of Abraham going to sacrifice his son, right? God is might ask you to give something just to see where your heart position is, right?
2100%.
1And he could have said, no, your heart's in the right place. You can keep it. Just just follow me or, you know, who knows? I don't know the end of that story if I had got planned out a different way. But I think it was just Jesus checking his heart posture.
(45:53):
2Well, and another reason why we know that to be true is what? Did the guy come and ask him first? What was what must I do to be saved? And what did he say? He said, you must, you know, keep my commandments. They said, which ones? So what's he doing? He's immediately searching for what box do I have to check?
(46:15):
2I want it. I want a checklist. I want to know the rules. And. Jesus. You know, he gives them a couple of different of the the commandments, and he says, I've kept all this. What? The. First of all, if you really feel like you've kept all these commandments, you're a fool because your heart is never been 100% without sin in any of those areas.
(46:42):
2And Jesus was like he knew his heart to begin with, but he was trying to reveal that this guy's a pompous, arrogant, and he is only looking for a get out of jail free card. And so then Jesus hits him with the the widow maker. You must give away all your stuff to the poor. And he's like, he went away sad because he had much wealth.
(47:06):
2He wasn't willing to give it up. You know. He wanted the rule. He wanted to check Mark, but he wasn't willing to give up that that money that he had received. And so anyway, again, it just points to the heart every time. And and I'm just I'm passionate about helping people to see like we can be great stewards, but God can bless many people through us, if we all allow him to.
(47:33):
1Yeah, we can and we can give much more from a place of profit than we can of not having it.
2100%.
1So thank you so much, Joey. Where can people find out more about you? The podcast, everything that you have to offer.
2Well, we, we created a page just for your show. So anybody listening right now can go to wealth without Wall street.com/profitable Christian business. Walk through that Wall street.com/profitable Christian business. All of our free resources on there. All of our contact information is on there. Our our podcast name and everything. So feel free to go peruse that and, just let me know whenever you do reach out that you heard me talking to Doug here on this podcast.
(48:22):
1Nice, nice. We're going to put that in the show notes as well. If you're watching this on a recording, it'll be if you're watching this on video, it'll be somewhere in the description for you to go check that out. And again, I don't know where you're at on your journey if you're listening, but if you are not leveraging, if you don't have the time that you'd like to have, if you're looking at your children when you go home from work every day and saying, man, I wish I could spend more time, reach out to Joey.
(48:47):
1I'm sure he can show you some ways that maybe you can leverage your money a different way so that you can start to get that time freedom that that you're looking for. So, thanks again. Joey, I do have one last question to ask everybody before they depart the show. And that is open ended. So what are the parting words of wisdom that you have for anyone watching?
(49:08):
2Yeah. There's no time like the present to take action. There is absolutely no excuse for sitting on the sidelines and wishing that you had a different outcome. It is all about taking action and doing it in the right direction. So, I hope that this has been helpful and hopefully it's been more than just talk.
(49:31):
2It's been some practical and, backing it up with a real life stories. The things that we've done or clients of ours have done.
1Awesome, awesome. Yeah. I think of the word regret often. Right. The last thing you want to have is regret. It's such a weighty, powerful word. And if you can at least get the information to make some decisions from someone like. Like Joey. So where you can, you won't be, like, down the road. I wish I had taken that call to action when Joey was on the podcast with Doug and at least found out, so.
(50:04):
1So you're not left with regret. You have. You have the answers that you need. So thanks again, Joey. And until next time, entrepreneurs keep moving forward.
1Always.
(01:00:45):
1Thanks for checking out the Profitable Christian Business Podcast. Remember to like, subscribe and share.
1Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of Profitable Christian Business. I am so pleased to have my guest, Joey Marais with me. Joey, how are you today?
2So good man. Glad to be with you.
1Nice. Go ahead for the audience and go ahead and give a little short introduction of yourself.
2Yeah, well, I don't know where you want me to start. You know, there was a man and a woman back in the 1970s that got together. No, I, so, man, I'm. I'm a disciple of Christ, a husband and father of five, daughters, who is is really seeking to educate people on how money actually works and give them true freedom through passive income.
(00:52):
2That's what wealth without Wall Street is all about, exposing people and encouraging and empowering them to take back control of their money and to make it work for them, not for Wall Street.
1That is that is awesome. And we're going to dive into exactly how you do that as we as we go through this. But first, I'd like to start out with some fun getting to know your questions. And the first one is if you could time travel and give your younger self one piece of financial advice, what would that be?
(01:21):
2I would say you are the steward of the money that God has given you, and Wall Street is not a substitute. You have to become an investor yourself. You can no longer stand on the sidelines and say, hey, I just don't feel like I'm that smart with money. I don't feel like I know what to do with it.
2So I'm going to abdicate that to someone else. That is never been God's designed for anything. All of your resources. You are called to be a steward of, and there's no excuse. You have to become an investor at that point.
(01:54):
1That's brings me I know we we're going to dive into some getting to know you questions, but that prompts some other questions for me. So, are you saying that you should not hire a financial planner? You should be the own steward of your own money.
2I believe you can always take advice. You can always get people who have maybe more experience, but at the end of the day, there's no substitute for you. It would be very similar to, like there's nothing else in your life that you would do that with, like with, for instance, your health be like, well, man, I'm just never been in a gym.
(02:27):
2I don't really understand how it works. I don't know what all my metrics are that I need to be watching, so I'm just going to let someone else do that, right? That doesn't work. Now, you can have a a trainer that you meet because they have the experience and you're but you're still actively participating, right? When it comes to your children.
2Well, I don't know what it's like to be a dad. I've never been a dad. So this first, this child comes into my life. I just I just seems too hard. I'm just going to let somebody else do it. No, like, these things are ludicrous, but we do it with our money. Because Wall Street and big banks have convinced us through their marketing messages, that they're smarter than us, that they need to hold on to our money as long as possible and that we can't.
(03:11):
2We just need to abdicate that to them. That is not the answer.
1To not give your money somebody. It's okay to get a coach or an advisor to help you that has the experience with the money, but you ultimately are just like you're responsible for your health. You're responsible for your own money.
2Exactly 100%.
1So here's another question for you. What's the most out of the box investment or business idea you've ever considered?
(03:37):
2Well, the one that I've done or the one that I'd consider. I'll give you both.
1Both? Let's hear both.
2The one that, we've had the most success with, which I think has been really cool, is our land flipping business. So, we interviewed a guy one time on our podcast. He was telling us he buys raw land at 20 to $0.30 on the dollar. He turns around and sells it to, retail buyers on terms where they can now own or finance that property back from him.
(04:07):
2And he just creates this massive note income. Well, we're like, this sounds awesome. But we don't have the bandwidth to do it ourselves. Like, it's not something that we are a great operators at a lot of things. We just know that about ourselves. And so we hired this group to do it for us, in a 70, 30 split, you know, and that business alone creates over $30,000 a month in passive income for us.
(04:34):
2So that's one of my favorite out of the box businesses that we've done. And, the thing that's kind of coming, you know, I think I'm excited about is we just recently had a guest who is in the pallet business, and I thought, that is a crazy idea. This is literally Doug. This is. No, no, like, he goes and he finds businesses that pallets are a nuisance to them, right?
(05:00):
2He goes to their business and they're sitting outside and they're all stacked up and they're collecting dust and rats and everything else, and they really need to get rid of those pallets. He offers to take them off their hands, free of charge. Right. Which is actually serving them, because in some ways, they don't want to pay somebody to come get them.
2And they they don't want to have their resources on finding a way to get rid of them. So he's actually doing them a service. He then turns around and finds other businesses that have to buy pallets on a very regular basis. And he literally transports them from where the business doesn't want them to, where the business wants to buy them, and he sells them, on average, 8 to $10 a pallet with zero cost to acquire.
(05:44):
2That, to me, is a crazy business model that I want to figure out, and I want to put in operators that can run it for me. So it's passive for me, but super, super lucrative in the process. So that's my my horizon deal that I'm looking at it.
1That's pretty cool. I, had someone early on when I started this podcast as the entrepreneur Journey that was, in the land flipping business. I think it's, really, really cool in that it's again, low overhead you not have to deal with as much as you do with typical real estate. Really cool. And I have, a client that's in the pallet business, I think more in a traditional sense, though, that they actually create the pallets and sell them to factories and things.
(06:25):
1But, yeah, I have a little bit of knowledge around that too.
2That's awesome.
1So this is really fun. I don't know what your favorite style of music is or anything like that, but if you had a theme song that was like played it is who you are, right? So when you walk in a room, that's what that's that's what we play is kind of like your theme song.
2Well, you know, on our podcast, we refer to me as The Italian Stallion. Okay. It just something I got in high school that kind of stuck with me. And so the guys, we're, we're coming up with our our names and everything for the podcast, and I threw that out and they were kind of laughing at me, but it stuck.
(07:02):
2And so for me it's I add the tag, I mean, the Rocky theme music, you just get you fired up at least does me like, I'm ready to just, you know, run through a brick wall when I hear that.
1Yeah, I agree, any time, you're feeling down or maybe De-Energized just put that song on and it it gives you a little bit of energy, right? For sure. So nice. Nice. My my next question is our staple question. It's a fill in the blank question. First, before I ask that, you mentioned your podcast several times.
(07:33):
1What is the name of your podcast.
2Wealth without Wall Street?
1Nice, nice. And how long you've been running that?
2That's since two, 2017.
1Nice, nice. And is it a I'm just going to ask you more questions about your podcast, because I'm sure the audience would be really interested. Is it just you on there? Do you interview people? What's the kind of the format?
(07:53):
2Yeah. So Russ and I, Russ Morgan and I are business partners. We we jointly run the show, and, we, we have a guest typically once a week. And the other in the second, episode of each week, we typically do a roundtable episode where it's, Russ and I and maybe one or 2 or 3 of our coaches sharing their expertise on a, specific matter or specific subject matter.
(08:20):
2And, so we kind of mix it up where once a week you have a different flavor than the other one.
1Nice. So what kind of guests do you have in your podcast?
2We have typically had people on. Since our show is about financial freedom, we are typically either interviewing somebody who has a passive income idea that could start as a side hustle and then turn passive, like that's that's kind of one of the parameters or a reduction of your monthly expenses. So if we can increase passive income and reduce monthly expenses, that's where we get to freedom anyway.
(08:54):
2So those are the kind of people we interview outside of. Also some of our clients, we also do bring our clients on just to share their journey because I think, you know, people learn and they can relate to where people are and they say, wait a minute, I could see myself doing the same thing, but we want to always, kind of inspire that, that process.
(09:15):
1Yeah, I think that fits right in because you look over at the name of this podcast, profitable is right in the middle when you decrease expenses, increase income. That's where the profit lies, right? For sure. So awesome. Awesome. Now we're going to get to the fill in the blank question. The key to financial freedom is not just about blank, but also about blank.
(09:36):
2I would say it's not just about money. It's I would say it's mostly about cash flow, not also, but, not just about money. It's about cash flow. And in that's the lie that Wall Street has kind of sold us on. And it's this idea of retirement. Retirement is a lie. It is never been. It's not a biblical concept.
(10:02):
2It's something that was kind of created, in the early 1900s, from a very scarce mindset that the labor force had to move on in order for there to be enough jobs for people. It wasn't based out of innovation or abundance, it was based out of scarcity. And it was a government idea at the end of the day.
(10:25):
2And so, the thought process, that you need to just stack up cash and put it into this big pile of money that is this mysterious number that nobody really knows what it should be, because they don't know what all the variables behind it is a lie. Because you're deferring life. You're deferring freedom until some point in your 60s.
(10:52):
2Or maybe 70s, and then you're hoping that that pile was so big that you could start peeling off dollars off the top and not run out before you die. And the the funny thing is, Doug, is there's I mean, everybody who's listening knows what I'm saying is true, but they just don't know the alternative. And in fact, this came to to be really clear to me, I was at the beach one time with my family and had my wealth.
(11:20):
2You know, I got my passive income shirt on right now, but I had a wealth without Wall Street shirt, and this lady, older lady comes up and she's like, hey, what's, what's that on your shirt? And I was like, oh, this is our company wealth. Wall Street. She says, well, what? What's that all about? So I start telling her and her first response is, well, we just retired this year, and, I hope it's enough.
(11:45):
2But that was that was the climax, if you think about it, like, put it in perspective. She's worked 40 years to this point. She's finally reached the summit. If you think about it like I've reached the summit of retirement. And her answer is, I hope it's enough. There's no abundance in that statement. There's no there's like there's no possibility of her starting to live like she didn't the previous 40 years because she's like all of a sudden got all this time, and now she can spend this money and live like she wants to live.
(12:23):
2No, in fact, it's the opposite. If she was already living somewhat scarce to that point, it's even more scarce at the top of the stack, because you can't afford to lose. And guess what? You're not in control of where all that money is and and all that. So anyways, I'm just saying people think about cash or stacking up money into an investment and then hopefully having enough.
(12:49):
2And it is the opposite. You have to build cash flow today from alternative assets that create that cash flow, so that you can spend that money in a way that either offsets your income today or truly provides, financial freedom.
1So some questions about that. Before we get to our secret question, we this may actually segue into the secret question. So you have passes passive income on your shirt. And so the idea would be to not use retirement as a lever. But thanks for tuning in to today's episode.
(13:27):
2As a Christian.
1Entrepreneur, we want to give you something like, you know what, your clients are working. Timken I'm going video on there for free. That's something in the statement.
2Thousands of dollars. Exactly how until you're you're building out who your ideal client. Okay. Compare that to the Wall Street for your business. The Wall Street Profits.
1Or the rest of.
2You may meet with a financial advisor and you set up a plan and you're like, I'm going to save X amount per month. And you know what? Based on this variable of how much the interest rate, or the rate of return is in this portfolio and based on this, variable, how much the taxes will be whenever I retire and based on this volatility factor based on blah, blah, blah, all this complexity, is it any shock that people get into their late 50s and they start looking at retirement and they're no where near the goal?
(14:21):
1Yep.
2There's way too much going on here versus if I give you the most simplest of formulas, Doug, if you have more passive income, then you have monthly expenses. You're free. So now all you have to do right now, and as you're listening to Doug and I have this conversation, you you do the math, you literally pull out a napkin and you say, I have $1,000 coming in from a rental property, or $1,000 coming in from a SaaS business that I started.
(14:50):
2And I have $10,000 a month in monthly expenses. I don't care what those monthly expenses are, but you just know this is my net. Every month in my household, I am 10% of the way to financial freedom right now, to that 1000. In the 10,000, I'm 10% of the way. So now I can pull the levers to increase, to get more and more of that passive income, to get to 10,000 a month.
(15:17):
2And then I'm free. I don't care about what the tax rate is at that time. I don't care about what the volatility of the market is. I'm just looking at what those assets produce every month. I'm tracking it and I'm putting it up against my monthly expenses. So I want to kind of keep my, a governor or my monthly expenses or I want to try to reduce them as I can, but the main focus is on the cash flow I can produce that will offset those monthly expenses.
(15:47):
2Then I'm free. Then I look at my calendar, and I only put the things on there that I'm passionate about, only put the things on my calendar that I want to engage myself with, the people I want to be with or impact right in my community, in my church, in my family, whatever that may be. Until then, you're constantly putting someone else's priorities on your calendar.
(16:14):
2That is a game changer.
1Yeah, time freedom. Not just money freedom, but time freedom, right? 100%. Which is the segue to the secret question what is the secret of to stop trading time for money?
2It all comes into you have to become an investor, right? You have to become an investor who looks at that formula that I just laid out. And you have to start making the system of where you put your money, support it. Okay, so case in point, I always like to give like a practical because you don't want to just keep this ethereal idea or ambiguous.
(16:50):
2It's okay, Doug, you tell me you want to be financially free. And let's say that you're 40 years old. Okay, well, I can then I can say, well, tell me what you're currently doing with your money that supports that goal. Or how fast do you want to be funded? Super. As fast as yesterday. Right. That's what everybody says.
(17:10):
1Yeah.
2They're they're beat up. They're they're tired of, you know clocking in clocking out. They're tired of the business running down instead of them running the business, whatever it may be. And I say what are you doing with money? And they say, well, I'm maxed out. My 41K, I'm putting money in an hour, an IRA, because my financial advisor said that that's a good place for you to put it, and I can defer taxes.
(17:35):
2I've got a 529 plan for my kids college and all these things. These are the things that I'm doing, and I'm paying off all my debts as fast as I can. All those things sound good, but then I bring it back to this. I say, when you put money in for one K, how does it support you becoming financially free today?
(17:56):
2Well, how much access can you get to the 15,000 a year that you're putting into it or zero? Okay, so you're telling me you're putting $15,000 away into A41K every year because it's helping you get closer to financial freedom or further from. And it's absolutely making me further from, because I'm literally putting money that could be used to create cash flow today into something I can't touch for in this case, if I'm 40 years old for at least the next 20 years, that is the opposite.
(18:30):
2Like all our whole goal when working with people is to point out the obvious you say you want this, but you're doing this. These things are in conflict. I don't care what the rate of return is on your forehead, K, or how bad it is right now, because we're in a freaking, you know, freefall in the stock market.
2I'm not I'm not even worried about if it's good or bad. On the rate of return. The simple fact that I can't use the money to produce freedom today immediately tells me I have to stop doing that. The same with an IRA, the same with 529. Place. All these things put money out of my control, out of my access, and they keep me from putting things into money or things that I can't produce passive income with.
(19:19):
2So again, there's a whole lot of that. We actually call this our passive income operating system, Doug. And we we walk people through all of these like critical thinking questions because to be honest, we've had a lot of noise in the market and there's a lot of things that sound good. But when they actually hold up against your role, like what you're trying to accomplish, a lot of those things become actually against your plan not to support it.
(19:48):
1So I want to ask this question, so are you would you say there are much better ways? I think you alluded to this, but there's much better ways in the stock market to and you'll have less control obviously, if you go into the stock market. But what about crypto?
2Well, here's my question to you. But by the way, this is a great question because fill in the blank with whatever that thing is. And what's my first question? I'm I'm agnostic to whatever you're doing with money, as long as it supports the very simple financial freedom formula. So here's my question to you on crypto. How much passive income is it producing for you?
(20:30):
2And you say, well, nothing. Okay. Well then at least it must be reducing your monthly expenses. Is it reducing a monthly expense? Oh no. No. Okay. So if it's not increasing passive income and it's not reducing a monthly expense, I can't be involved. It. Well logically you don't understand. I could put a dollar into this, this crypto coin and it could go to 100,000.
(20:57):
2Well it could do that. But in the meantime what have you lost in terms of the ability to get to financial freedom. You're you're betting on accumulation or appreciation. Those things are bets. There's are hopes. Those are not actually producing freedom. Now the person that put a dollar into crypto that went to 100,000 now has $100,000 to then leverage into a passive income.
(21:26):
2I'm not I'm not denying that that's possible. But what I am saying is we have to stop falling track to the hope strategies of equity, appreciation and accumulation because those do not support passive income greater than monthly expenses. And just that's where we have to draw the line and have a like a central point that we're making decisions objectively about.
(21:52):
1Yeah. Can you maybe highlight some of the, ways that you help people, generate passive income?
2Absolutely. Yeah. So so we first of all, we start with the passive income operating system. We use a concept called internet banking that I learned in 22,009. And then that was the game changer. That's like if you think about climbing the mountain of passive or financial freedom, and Everest is the top is where your passive income exceeds monthly expenses.
(22:22):
2That's like pay scale, right? Get this operating system put in place so that you now have access to more of your cash and you can start building passive income by leveraging it into assets that produce it. The second level, we call it the passive Income lab, which is just like go back to your college days, right? You go into a lab, it's hands on, right.
(22:44):
2You have to become a better investor. And the only way to do that is to put yourself in the way of coaching and in the way of community, that both of those things will make you a better investor, because now you're forcing yourself. You're giving yourself accountability to have the result. We have a 12 week program that literally walks you through how to in know what sort of investor you are, right?
(23:10):
2Does anybody know what their investor DNA is like? What's your investment like? The biggest question people normally ask me, Doug, is what do you invest in because it's wealth without Wall Street. I'm like, well, what sort of investor are you? They're like, what do you mean? Because I don't care if I invest in land. And I think it's great if it doesn't line up with your investor DNA.
(23:33):
2How God created you to see the world, how God has given you experiences and resources. Those things could be dramatically different, and you will have a very different outcome than I do. That's why I don't go chasing rates of return. Don't go chasing. Well, this portfolio has returned, you know, 80% over the last thing that that is garbage, right?
(23:56):
2It has to do with who you are as an investor. You have to then create a buybacks. Like once I know what sort of investments lined up with me, I now want to draw the lines around what fits my buybacks and what does it fit my buybacks. Okay, you say I want a piece of real estate. I'm going to be a real estate investor.
2I'm going to buy for long term rentals. Well, I only want them in this geographic area. And then all of a sudden the deal comes up and it's outside of that area. Am I going to buy it? If I've done the due diligence of creating that box, I can say no. I can say no to a good thing because it's not the best thing.
(24:34):
2Right? If it's in, specifically like an area that would be really good for short term rentals. And I have an opportunity, but I'm committed to long term rentals because that's my investor DNA. I'm going to say no, right. Because I've done the work of. So I figured out my investor DNA. I figured out my buy box.
2Now I can run fast into the things that will support my my goals. So yeah, we have the system, we have the lab, and then we have a mastermind for those who those people who already have installed some sort of passive income, and they're now trying to get to that final 100% of their monthly expenses. So we offer all those things and yeah, just want to help people figure out where they're at in that process.
(25:22):
1Yeah, I heard a lot about alignment and focus in there because it's a it's the whole thing. If you try and focus on all kinds of different investments, you get spread too thin, right? And you're not able to focus on being able to compound the investments that you are focusing on. Right.
2Exactly. Yeah. I always share the good and the bad with people. Doug. It's our passive income report we share every single month. This is me and Russ, our personal passive income. And over the years we've done a lot like we've got probably 20 different sources and all these different verticals. And to be honest, it's too thin, like we've done too many things.
(26:00):
2But what we do is we start to figure out which one are the winners that line up with us, and then we're starting to like, consolidate somewhat and say, these are the things that really we're getting the best results from. And so anyways, I just encourage people to do exactly what you're saying and find out it get more, get more like laser focused so you can have the best results.
(26:22):
1But in your case, when when you're helping advise people, I can see having more investments because you want to be able to tell people, you know, I've done this and I can tell you kind of how it pans out. So well, I.
2Mean, you've had people on your podcast who have great things to say. In fact, they they're good thought leaders. And if you're just listening to Doug and I'm not watching this online, I just did the air quotes. Okay. So thought leaders, I want to be a result leader, right? I want to show you my work. I don't want to just tell you about it.
(26:55):
2And so our passive income report is exactly what you said. We listened to all these people come on our podcast. It's 2017, and they were telling us how great these things are. And we said, I wonder if those are actually legit. And so we started doing them. And guess what? We report to the world, the ones that were legit and the ones that were not so legit.
(27:17):
2I do not buy an ice maker or ice machine. They, or at least the where we put it is the worst. It does not make any money. Do not buy an RV and try to rent it out. It will not be profitable. I'm just telling. Those are two things that we've done, recently years and they have not worked out well at all.
2So anyways, we we talk about a million things, but just letting you know be a result leader, not a thought through.
(27:43):
1Love that, love that. Let's talk about one of a lot of people's favorite financial advisors out there. Dave Ramsey. Right. He talks a lot about getting debt free. Like you're your number one focus should be get out of debt. Right. Why is being debt free not necessarily financial freedom.
2Well so think back to our financial freedom formula. Number one it's passive income greater than monthly expenses. Debt payments, the monthly payment you pay to a car loan. That monthly payment you pay on a student loan, monthly payment on your mortgage. Those are all included in your monthly expenses. But that's not the only story, right? You also have groceries.
(28:29):
2You also have utilities. You also have taxes. You also have all these. The cost of living will never go away. In fact, in recent years you've been a part of the inflation debacle. It's not as cheap as it used to be to just live without any debt. So if if you're keeping track, if I've paid off all my debt, I still have monthly expenses.
(28:55):
2And if I haven't been stacking up cash on the other side to produce passive income, buying assets that produce passive income, I will never. I'm still 0% of the way there, even if my monthly expenses instead of 10,000 are now 4000 or 3000. Whatever the number is, if I have zero passive income, I'm 0% of the way to financial freedom.
(29:18):
2I still can't stop my job. I still can't stop my business. And so that is the that's the kicker. Now, let me just say this. I disagree with Dave Ramsey on that because of that fact that just being objective. But I'll tell you this, Dave Ramsey, he's done a lot of good for people who are below water, the people that cannot breathe because they have allowed lifestyle to take over, and they need just a slap in the pants.
(29:46):
2They need somebody to help them get back to to zero. But when it comes to building actual freedom, his strategy is not going to help you get there. It's going to be a long term hope that you retire one day, maybe, possibly, and put money in the stock market that that's never going to create the freedom that we're talking about today.
(30:10):
1Do you believe in the concept of good debt?
2100%.
1Awesome. It's just how you leverage it, right?
2If you're leveraging as an investor, okay. Now people will leverage debt as complete morons. And they will and they will pay the price. It will absolutely come to haunt them. But when you use leverage in a known investment vertical that you have built, the acumen to be able to handle wisely. Leveraged debt is one of the fastest ways to creating the highest returns, the highest cash flows.
(30:48):
2And so you have to be smart about it. But yes, the 100% good debt is is your friend.
1I think a lot of people truly get this concept once they become homeowners. Because yes, you're going into a massive amount of debt usually when you buy a house. But lo and behold, 510 years later your home is suddenly worth two times what you paid for it right? So, that that to me is an example of of good debt.
(31:14):
2Well, I would disagree with you on that.
1Okay.
2More debt or mortgage debt is always a liability to you for your home, your primary residence. Because it's just that monthly expense column, right. If you if if you've all of a sudden bought an investment property that is creating cash flow above that mortgage, that's good debt. But your primary I am a big fan IT proponent. Try to find the house that you can live within your means or below your means with that.
(31:48):
2That mortgage is always a liability to you. The equity. Now, I will also be a proponent of this. Don't pay your house off. Paying your house off is one of the worst things that you could do with that excess cash flow, because it's it's keeping you from taking that cash that you could have been using to build passive income to just reduce your the, the balance, your monthly expense stays the same until it's paid off in full.
(32:17):
2But most people will not do that in a long, long time. And they've lost the ability to produce passive income. So, I'm going to just tell you your, your primary home, try to keep it as cheap as possible to borrow that money to buy it. Because there is always going to be an expense.
(32:37):
1Oh, I appreciate that. And I'm sure the audience does to let's talk about mindset for a minute. What was the biggest mindset shift that helped you scale your passive income? I think I asked you this. I read somewhere on your bio that you start with like $2,500 and now you're over $50,000 a month. So what's the mindset shift that caused that?
2Well, I'll tell you, this may hit home with some of you that are parents. I was sitting there driving my she was probably three years old at the time and, driving her to work, I was I was not I was driving her to her school. Excuse me? Her preschool.
(33:14):
1She wasn't going to child labor.
2No, I, taking her to school, and it was a rare morning because usually her mom had to take it because I was already at work. I was in the mortgage business before all this. Yeah. Man is a brutal, very time consuming business. And, so I was always at work, so I'm driving, and she says from the back seat, she says, there you go.
(33:37):
2Pick me up from school today. And I was like, that's kind of like, what? Of course, like, she already knows this or this. I was like, no, sweetheart, your mom's going to pick you up. And she says, why do you not go pick me up? Like, I got to go to work. Oh, why do you have to go to work?
(34:01):
2And you've had these conversations, right? With a three year old. They have all the words. That is super innocent. You love it. And you're like, it also annoys you. You know, kind of. So I'm sitting there, I'm like, well, I gotta pay for this car. I got pay for her house. I got to pay for the groceries. You know that we eat.
2And she says we already have car. We already have a house. We already have food. And I don't know about you, Doug, but it was the simplest lesson for me to hear my little three year old daughter was such wisdom. All she wanted was time with her dad. And I was sitting there saying, I have to go to work.
(34:51):
2And the the moment for me. And maybe this is something else for you. I don't know what it is for you, but it was that absolutely just driver in me that said, I don't have passive income. That is why I had to respond the way I did. I'm the only asset at work in my household that's producing income, and it's 100% active.
(35:19):
2I now am committed. I gotta find a way to produce passive income, because until then, I'm never going to have a different answer for my daughter. And guess what? When she's 13, not three, when she's 23, when she's 33, she's not going to be asking this question. She's not going to want to spend time with me. This is the time to create freedom.
(35:48):
2And I'm just telling you that was the motivation for me that said, okay, we got to get serious about creating passive income.
1So I think that's powerful for anyone listening. If you have a family, especially young children, and you just want in your heart to spend time like nothing's more precious than our time, nothing is more invaluable than our time. So I think you owe it to yourself. If you're listening and you think Jay could help you with your finances, to, give him a call, we're going to give.
(36:20):
1Put that information below for you to reach out to him. But, and now I want to kind of talk about your faith a little bit because, this is the Christian Business podcast, talk about how some of the how biblical principles play into how you help people.
2Well, I think number one, and the, the stewardship principle to me is huge. You know, you think back to the, the parable of the talents and I, you know, for years I just read that kind of like normal, you know, like, hey, these guys the, the five talent person and the two talent person, they're they were actively out there trying to to be good stewards or just, you know, faithful stewards trying to do the best that they could.
(37:07):
2And the ones, the, the one talent steward just, you know, just didn't know what to do. He just did a bad job. And it was it wasn't following through. But as I read this, in the last probably five years, maybe, maybe a little bit more than that, it struck me. I reread it, and the one talent steward, when he was being called out by the owner, he said, he said, why did you just put this one talent in the dirt and not grow it, you know, not do anything with it?
(37:42):
2And he said, I knew you to be a harsh master, one who sows where they are, reaps where they do not. So and all this sort of stuff. And and he said, you knew me to be a harsh master, and yet you did this anyway. And what so couple of things that stuck out to me. Number one, did the steward actually know the owner?
(38:08):
2Did he know the master? And then I think the the answer is no. It came out later. Like he actually didn't know the master. And then the second thing is he called him a wicked and slothful servant. And the takeaway for me is going back to one of the first things we talked about. There's no, excuse and no replacement of you as the steward of what God's entrusted to you.
(38:41):
2You have to actively be about taking the resources God's given you. And this is not just in money, okay? I don't want to make this just like, hey, this is be my just because I'm in the money business. This is about all the resources God's given you your time, your body, your money, your relationships, your experiences. All of these things are things God's calling you to steward well.
(39:07):
2And if you've been on the sidelines about your money and just an onlooker and a hope strategy, you can't afford to do that anymore. You cannot afford to do that because you're called to be the steward. And even when you mess up, there are going to be times when you will lose money. But guess what? You are still called to do your part to be the steward that you're called to be.
(39:36):
2That to me is one of the overarching things that has kind of, you know, propelled me and compelled me in this journey. And we obviously don't require people to be Christians to work with them in terms of our business, but I'll be, it's pretty amazing to see how many people really are attracted to what we do because they're like, you're right, I can't I I'm not having the results by letting somebody else do it anyway.
(40:04):
2So I better get in the game. You guys, I need your help, you know, to to equip me to be that steward.
1Yeah. Wisdom, right? Wisdom is wisdom. Like we know as Christians that that wisdom comes from God, but it's still sound whether they believe it came from God or not. It is. It is sound. We believe it came from God. So yeah, for sure. And my apologies for calling you Jay a minute ago, Joey.
(40:32):
2Oh, it's all right. Yeah. No worries.
1So, my next question is around generosity. So, how does how do you feel generosity plays into this whole financial picture?
2Yeah. I'll tell you what. Generosity. It really comes from someone who's been transformed by the generosity of God. You know, if you think about, just the, immense, immense gift that has been given to us as Christians, it was none of our own good. We're we're given grace. We are given mercy and, in salvation by no means of our own.
(41:15):
2Then we can be generous as stewards. But I'm going to take you back to the stewardship principle. If you believe that the money is yours, you will hold on to it. If you believe that everything good comes from through into Christ, then you will be generous. Above all, because you like being God. What do you want me to do with this money?
(41:40):
2It's a very small difference in terms of like the sentence that I'm saying, but the impact is is immense. I'm no longer hoarding money for my own good. I'm no longer, you know, I'm not just chasing return because I want to just stack up money, stack up money, stack money. I, I am actively asking constantly, God, what is it that you want me to do with this money that you are entrusting me to?
(42:09):
2I am only the receiver and I want it to flow through me according to your purposes. If it's not that, then it's all about me and it's all about my work and it's all about what I do. And so I think that's a shift that makes you super generous.
1Yeah. And this is from my own experience. Any time that I've felt financial pressure, we'll just call it. And I've gone out and I've done something generous for someone else, but that required me to give up my finances. I've been blessed past that and that financial worry was alleviated. And that's just my personal experience. I've always found that if you want to fix,
(42:52):
1And maybe, you know, I think it's supernatural, right? What happens?
2Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it it generosity begin is an act of obedience. And it's also an act of putting yourself under the authority of God. Right. It's no longer, again. It's no longer my resources. It's his. And again, I just think that that is that's the game changer. That. God. God always is after your heart.
(43:25):
2It's never about the money. That's why I think the church has really completely missed over the years. They read God's word in such a way that they're like, oh, give me the rules, which is basically what the Pharisees did. And Jesus called them out constantly over that. But if it was all about just ticking off the rules and saying so, case in point, the rich man is like, getting to heaven is like a rich, camel going through the eye of a needle.
(43:58):
2Right. If you just read that one thing, you're like, oh yeah, I don't want to be that rich man. You know, the rich man. It seems impossible for him to get to heaven, because it's like a camel go through the eye of a needle. Or if you keep reading, it's like the next sentence or the next two sentences.
2It says, for whatever is impossible with God or with man is it is possible with God. It's talking about all salvation, not just the rich man, but why everybody cannot get to heaven on their own. It's impossible.
(44:32):
1That's right.
2And and by the way, if you think about the context, what is a rich man? What constitutes a rich man? If you're an American, you're in like the top point 1% of all people in the world, wealth wise. So all of us would be rich in terms of if we're just talking about a scale. But it's all ultimately about Jesus is always after your heart, and money is just a great tool to reveal the heart.
(45:05):
2That's why he talked about it so much in his work. Yeah.
1So anyway, one of the stories that sticks out to me and a lot of people that think being rich is, evil or against God is the story of the rich man that would not give up his possessions to follow Jesus. It wasn't that he it was his heart posture. It was what he his riches were his idol.
(45:28):
1I'm sure that, you think of Abraham going to sacrifice his son, right? God is might ask you to give something just to see where your heart position is, right?
2100%.
1And he could have said, no, your heart's in the right place. You can keep it. Just just follow me or, you know, who knows? I don't know the end of that story if I had got planned out a different way. But I think it was just Jesus checking his heart posture.
(45:53):
2Well, and another reason why we know that to be true is what? Did the guy come and ask him first? What was what must I do to be saved? And what did he say? He said, you must, you know, keep my commandments. They said, which ones? So what's he doing? He's immediately searching for what box do I have to check?
(46:15):
2I want it. I want a checklist. I want to know the rules. And. Jesus. You know, he gives them a couple of different of the the commandments, and he says, I've kept all this. What? The. First of all, if you really feel like you've kept all these commandments, you're a fool because your heart is never been 100% without sin in any of those areas.
(46:42):
2And Jesus was like he knew his heart to begin with, but he was trying to reveal that this guy's a pompous, arrogant, and he is only looking for a get out of jail free card. And so then Jesus hits him with the the widow maker. You must give away all your stuff to the poor. And he's like, he went away sad because he had much wealth.
(47:06):
2He wasn't willing to give it up. You know. He wanted the rule. He wanted to check Mark, but he wasn't willing to give up that that money that he had received. And so anyway, again, it just points to the heart every time. And and I'm just I'm passionate about helping people to see like we can be great stewards, but God can bless many people through us, if we all allow him to.
(47:33):
1Yeah, we can and we can give much more from a place of profit than we can of not having it.
2100%.
1So thank you so much, Joey. Where can people find out more about you? The podcast, everything that you have to offer.
2Well, we, we created a page just for your show. So anybody listening right now can go to wealth without Wall street.com/profitable Christian business. Walk through that Wall street.com/profitable Christian business. All of our free resources on there. All of our contact information is on there. Our our podcast name and everything. So feel free to go peruse that and, just let me know whenever you do reach out that you heard me talking to Doug here on this podcast.
(48:22):
1Nice, nice. We're going to put that in the show notes as well. If you're watching this on a recording, it'll be if you're watching this on video, it'll be somewhere in the description for you to go check that out. And again, I don't know where you're at on your journey if you're listening, but if you are not leveraging, if you don't have the time that you'd like to have, if you're looking at your children when you go home from work every day and saying, man, I wish I could spend more time, reach out to Joey.
(48:47):
1I'm sure he can show you some ways that maybe you can leverage your money a different way so that you can start to get that time freedom that that you're looking for. So, thanks again. Joey, I do have one last question to ask everybody before they depart the show. And that is open ended. So what are the parting words of wisdom that you have for anyone watching?
(49:08):
2Yeah. There's no time like the present to take action. There is absolutely no excuse for sitting on the sidelines and wishing that you had a different outcome. It is all about taking action and doing it in the right direction. So, I hope that this has been helpful and hopefully it's been more than just talk.
(49:31):
2It's been some practical and, backing it up with a real life stories. The things that we've done or clients of ours have done.
1Awesome, awesome. Yeah. I think of the word regret often. Right. The last thing you want to have is regret. It's such a weighty, powerful word. And if you can at least get the information to make some decisions from someone like. Like Joey. So where you can, you won't be, like, down the road. I wish I had taken that call to action when Joey was on the podcast with Doug and at least found out, so.
(50:04):
1So you're not left with regret. You have. You have the answers that you need. So thanks again, Joey. And until next time, entrepreneurs keep moving forward.
1Always.
(01:00:45):
1Thanks for checking out the Profitable Christian Business Podcast. Remember to like, subscribe and share.
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