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This month we’re celebrating the 3 year anniversary of the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast by re-releasing some of our top downloaded podcasts from the past 3 years - ones you expressed how it changed your refrigeration career and your life. Thanks to all of you tuning in and for all your reviews and comments, which help people discover the podcast on all our platforms. And thanks for helping us build this Refrigeration Mentor community all over the world over these 3 years. Number 3 in our countdown is Episode 203. "Supermarket Refrigeration Service Tech Tips with Andrew Freeburg."
In this episode, we discuss:
-A step-by-step walkthrough of an efficient service call
-Importance of good communication with a customer
-Questions to ask a customer to assess a service call
-How to do an effective visual inspection
-Why to divide your tools into different sets
-Importance of understanding electrical circuits
-Providing highly detailed invoices to customers
-Understanding controls
-Not just repairing problems, but determining why the problem occurred
-Finding a mentor in the refrigeration trade
-Creating a service call checklist
Helpful resources & links:
Episode 251. Supermarket Refrigeration Service and Troubleshooting Tips
Andrew Freeburg on LinkedIn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's up everyone? Welcome back to the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. I'm your host, Trevor Matthews, this week marks the three year anniversary of the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast, and that is huge. It is mind blowing when the team told me it's three years, and I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
(00:01):
So I'm super excited and, and once again, if you've been here from day one listening to our refrigeration method podcast, thank you so much for everything you do for the industry. And if you're brand new, welcome to the community because we're here to share, uplift the industry.
People that are newer getting in to start to disservice as well as people who have been doing service for a long time and maybe need some, some kick in the butt. You know what I mean? Because we all need that once in a while, you know, just to straighten us out because sometimes day in, day out, it just, it feels like the same thing and sometimes just that one conversation that you need to get your rate back on track.
It doesn't matter what the service call it could be drains, it could be electrical, it could be airflow, it could be refrigerant, it doesn't really matter. But if you have that process in place correctly, your service calls are gonna, you're gonna troubleshoot them quicker and you're gonna solve them faster.
Once I do get to the job site, I connect with the, the manager or whoever's in charge, let 'em know I'm here and see, uh, what the situation is. Just the communication part goes a long way with these, uh, service managers or not service managers, uh, uh, department managers and talk to 'em and listen to what they have to say.
Let's try to make it a, a real example. Let's talk about, just say it is a, it's a deli case. Okay, the deli case is warming up and you get the call. You get is that from dispatchers? Like they got a deli case warm. They didn't gimme any more information than that. What would be some of the questions you would ask that deli manager or the person that works in that area?
A hundred percent because you don't wanna just start going and tearing open a case, you know, without talking to anyone. 'cause I've done it before where I opened up a case and started getting in. It wasn't even the case. That was the issue. You know what I mean? This happens, you know, it happened. It happens.
Um, if the fans are not running, I would be asking why typically those fans are running, unless it's defrost, and of course all different. If it's electric hot gas, I mean that will shut off, but that will be my next one. But if you got two evaporators, one fan's on one's not. I mean, there you go, there, there's a huge indicator right there.
So I wasn't carrying 150 pounds and I, it took me a couple years to realize that, honestly, a couple years I was always carrying these big bags and you don't need that when you're starting out a service call.
Um, at that, at that point, uh, after my visual inspections, that's when I get the tools out. Um, if there's that pop sound, if there isn't a pop sound and you just have a fan out, um, then I would, yeah, I mean, you, you're at, at the point where you have to pull your tools. I mean, you could go to the graphs on the E two or whatever type of, um.
Take off that side and look for, uh, a pop. Sounds like it's a short, so I'll be looking for any burnt mark, electrical burnt marks, um, in that. And if you don't see it there, um, then I would, uh. You know, start taking off J boxes. Just that located right there. I've seen a bunch in the J box or on the actual side where the electrical panel is at.
You, you just know that the fans should be running, but you don't know what controls it, how it turns on, why it shuts off. All that is a process, and that's that order of operation that I'm talking about. If you know that, man, your skill level is going to increase. Tremendously.
Yeah, and there's a lot of things, and this is where wiring diagrams are so important. A lot of people say, well, there's no wiring diagrams at the store. I, I've never seen a wiring diagram in a supermarket before. That's unheard of. Well, there are somewhere someone, unless there was a reno, don't get me wrong, if there was a Reno, things could have changed.
Oh, yeah. I've seen where the, the contacts on Brian, it had to move a board point over. I seen where the fuses will blow that little, a little too amp fuse, or I think it's two, two and a half amp fuse. Yeah. That will go and you're searching for that other side of power and it happens to be, right, not even in the machine, or excuse me, not even in the evaporator, but all the way back to the machine room.
Is it that controller? Um, so we checked it. We looked at the electrical, if it's 1 22, 3, whatever the voltage is coming in for those motors, we're looking at the control that could be 24 volts that, that, that is coming into the, that contacted or pull into contactors for the fans or not. What else could it, could you look for or try to look for when you're on this specific call, uh, for the fans being out?
And Corey threw in the chat exactly what you just said there. Most case manufacturers will have electrical SCO schematics on their spec sheet online. So just spot on, Corey. Great job. So we check that you find out in the motors that, so that, that's a service call. So you, what you do is you gotta get the model and serial number, you gotta call your suppliers, you gotta order one op or whatever.
If it's case number five on, uh, number, you know, uh, B five B, just make it known exactly where you're at. And that really goes a long way. And then actually describe what you did. Customers wanna know what you did and why it took so long to do it. So if you just go in, found fan motors bad and that's all you put, that's, that's hard to justify.
Do you ever assist the customer with removing product, Andrew? I'll give you my thoughts afterwards.
I'm gonna do it. Yeah. But I like what you said. It depends, you know, if you've got a good relationship with a customer, it depends. 'cause if you work with a big company or a small company and you just working with this one small market retailer, um, maybe that's, that's part of the, the contract.
Everyone has roles and jobs at the supermarket. So it's like, it's like all of a sudden you're on a job and someone says, okay, you gotta leave that job and go over here while you're working on this job and go do something else and then come back to it. So you gotta respect their time as well. 'cause they don't always have people just to go and pull it because always be, um, have some empathy for, for the story you're working on, but understand the different role, uh, the roles in, in that.
But it could be a press transducer that's reading wrong. Or a, a thermostat that's reading a different temperature than what it is, but that's not the programming. Yes, it's part of the control, but it's not the actual programming of the device. Bad motors, you know, plug drains. Um, and then of course it's the time.
So that, that's good. So a hundred percent. I, I really think that, uh, controls is, is something part of our lives. You know, if you want to get better at it, just start learning them yourself. Don't wait for anybody else to try to teach you them. Um, but it's something that is not, uh. An issue as much as people think it is, kind of like Andrew said, there will be calls with controllers.
(00:22):
Well, you don't need to pull down to negative, you know, 15 degrees anymore. All you really need is about negative five-ish, you know, five to zero degrees to have that product maintained. Well, they changed the tent, but what did they forget to do? They forgot to change the alarms on it. So now we're, I mean, the alarms is set at zero and it was set at negative two, I believe.
Yeah, exactly. 'cause I've seen that, seen that lots of times I've even did it. You know what I mean? Going and replacing something and it doesn't need to be replaced. It's kind of trial by error. And sometimes you have to do that. Sometimes you have to replace a part to figure out something else is broken.
Thank you. Um, one of the things that I tell, especially new guys when they're trying to troubleshoot something is use the rule, divide and conquer.
Do I have power to my solenoid, my compressor, whatever, and it's not working, or do I not have power? So that divides it. Again, it takes you in another direction. But as far as controls go, more often than not, just real quick for the, especially for the new guys, it's usually only two things. Most likely with controls, it's either a bad sensor or a bad transducer.
Yeah, just like, like Andrew mentioned too, on the, on the transducers, and it's very important. You gotta verify this stuff. This is why we have tools, this is why we have gauges. This is why we have, uh, uh, meters. You gotta bring them out and don't always rely on the controller itself. It's a great starting point, but that controller could just say, oh, it's saying minus five.
You'll start remembering them, then you don't have to write them down as much. And I still recommend doing it, having a journal. Well, why would I have a journal? I had a journal, which is a pocket flip pad, and I could flip through it. And I remember years I'd have a stack of little things and I could go through it and find a model number or something that I need that was actually my journal when I looked back.
You, you're gonna have to ask. Uh, another thing is you have an hour on that service call to figure it out. If you get to a point where you don't know what you're doing and you're just totally lost, call somebody. Yeah. Um, you're just spin your bills and let's, let's get, let's get you some help. Um, that's another big thing.
So when they asked me, I already had it down. You know what I mean? So if they ask me AMT draw, I got it. And they ask me how much AMT draw is good. Amra, I have it. How much, or what's my power check, my voltage imbalance? You know, anything, what they asked, I had that answer already for 'em. And then 95% of the time we could fix it right over the phone because I already had all those answers and an hour I had my whole checklist done 5% of the time.
I highly recommend if you're looking to dive deep on, on your supermarket troubleshooting skills service and maintenance system, you're gonna want to check that one out may. Head to the refrigeration mentor.com website. To look for for that. Also, uh, on the website there's gonna be a free compressor and service troubleshooting guide.
The cor sense for examples, uh, cor sense, uh, protection, uh, one, uh, Copeland has under semi hermetics, that one there's always powered up. So that one will always be powered up, but inside the, the controls, it knows when the compressor's off. So it doesn't, it won't send a low pressure alarm if that's the controller on there.
And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Let your friends know that there are people who care, who want to share the refrigeration information to help them get to the next level in their career. If you have not been to the refrigeration mentor website@refrigerationmentor.com, go check it out.
What's up everyone? Welcome back to the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. I'm your host, Trevor Matthews, this week marks the three year anniversary of the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast, and that is huge. It is mind blowing when the team told me it's three years, and I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
(00:01):
So I'm super excited and, and once again, if you've been here from day one listening to our refrigeration method podcast, thank you so much for everything you do for the industry. And if you're brand new, welcome to the community because we're here to share, uplift the industry.
People that are newer getting in to start to disservice as well as people who have been doing service for a long time and maybe need some, some kick in the butt. You know what I mean? Because we all need that once in a while, you know, just to straighten us out because sometimes day in, day out, it just, it feels like the same thing and sometimes just that one conversation that you need to get your rate back on track.
It doesn't matter what the service call it could be drains, it could be electrical, it could be airflow, it could be refrigerant, it doesn't really matter. But if you have that process in place correctly, your service calls are gonna, you're gonna troubleshoot them quicker and you're gonna solve them faster.
Once I do get to the job site, I connect with the, the manager or whoever's in charge, let 'em know I'm here and see, uh, what the situation is. Just the communication part goes a long way with these, uh, service managers or not service managers, uh, uh, department managers and talk to 'em and listen to what they have to say.
Let's try to make it a, a real example. Let's talk about, just say it is a, it's a deli case. Okay, the deli case is warming up and you get the call. You get is that from dispatchers? Like they got a deli case warm. They didn't gimme any more information than that. What would be some of the questions you would ask that deli manager or the person that works in that area?
A hundred percent because you don't wanna just start going and tearing open a case, you know, without talking to anyone. 'cause I've done it before where I opened up a case and started getting in. It wasn't even the case. That was the issue. You know what I mean? This happens, you know, it happened. It happens.
Um, if the fans are not running, I would be asking why typically those fans are running, unless it's defrost, and of course all different. If it's electric hot gas, I mean that will shut off, but that will be my next one. But if you got two evaporators, one fan's on one's not. I mean, there you go, there, there's a huge indicator right there.
So I wasn't carrying 150 pounds and I, it took me a couple years to realize that, honestly, a couple years I was always carrying these big bags and you don't need that when you're starting out a service call.
Um, at that, at that point, uh, after my visual inspections, that's when I get the tools out. Um, if there's that pop sound, if there isn't a pop sound and you just have a fan out, um, then I would, yeah, I mean, you, you're at, at the point where you have to pull your tools. I mean, you could go to the graphs on the E two or whatever type of, um.
Take off that side and look for, uh, a pop. Sounds like it's a short, so I'll be looking for any burnt mark, electrical burnt marks, um, in that. And if you don't see it there, um, then I would, uh. You know, start taking off J boxes. Just that located right there. I've seen a bunch in the J box or on the actual side where the electrical panel is at.
You, you just know that the fans should be running, but you don't know what controls it, how it turns on, why it shuts off. All that is a process, and that's that order of operation that I'm talking about. If you know that, man, your skill level is going to increase. Tremendously.
Yeah, and there's a lot of things, and this is where wiring diagrams are so important. A lot of people say, well, there's no wiring diagrams at the store. I, I've never seen a wiring diagram in a supermarket before. That's unheard of. Well, there are somewhere someone, unless there was a reno, don't get me wrong, if there was a Reno, things could have changed.
Oh, yeah. I've seen where the, the contacts on Brian, it had to move a board point over. I seen where the fuses will blow that little, a little too amp fuse, or I think it's two, two and a half amp fuse. Yeah. That will go and you're searching for that other side of power and it happens to be, right, not even in the machine, or excuse me, not even in the evaporator, but all the way back to the machine room.
Is it that controller? Um, so we checked it. We looked at the electrical, if it's 1 22, 3, whatever the voltage is coming in for those motors, we're looking at the control that could be 24 volts that, that, that is coming into the, that contacted or pull into contactors for the fans or not. What else could it, could you look for or try to look for when you're on this specific call, uh, for the fans being out?
And Corey threw in the chat exactly what you just said there. Most case manufacturers will have electrical SCO schematics on their spec sheet online. So just spot on, Corey. Great job. So we check that you find out in the motors that, so that, that's a service call. So you, what you do is you gotta get the model and serial number, you gotta call your suppliers, you gotta order one op or whatever.
If it's case number five on, uh, number, you know, uh, B five B, just make it known exactly where you're at. And that really goes a long way. And then actually describe what you did. Customers wanna know what you did and why it took so long to do it. So if you just go in, found fan motors bad and that's all you put, that's, that's hard to justify.
Do you ever assist the customer with removing product, Andrew? I'll give you my thoughts afterwards.
I'm gonna do it. Yeah. But I like what you said. It depends, you know, if you've got a good relationship with a customer, it depends. 'cause if you work with a big company or a small company and you just working with this one small market retailer, um, maybe that's, that's part of the, the contract.
Everyone has roles and jobs at the supermarket. So it's like, it's like all of a sudden you're on a job and someone says, okay, you gotta leave that job and go over here while you're working on this job and go do something else and then come back to it. So you gotta respect their time as well. 'cause they don't always have people just to go and pull it because always be, um, have some empathy for, for the story you're working on, but understand the different role, uh, the roles in, in that.
But it could be a press transducer that's reading wrong. Or a, a thermostat that's reading a different temperature than what it is, but that's not the programming. Yes, it's part of the control, but it's not the actual programming of the device. Bad motors, you know, plug drains. Um, and then of course it's the time.
So that, that's good. So a hundred percent. I, I really think that, uh, controls is, is something part of our lives. You know, if you want to get better at it, just start learning them yourself. Don't wait for anybody else to try to teach you them. Um, but it's something that is not, uh. An issue as much as people think it is, kind of like Andrew said, there will be calls with controllers.
(00:22):
Well, you don't need to pull down to negative, you know, 15 degrees anymore. All you really need is about negative five-ish, you know, five to zero degrees to have that product maintained. Well, they changed the tent, but what did they forget to do? They forgot to change the alarms on it. So now we're, I mean, the alarms is set at zero and it was set at negative two, I believe.
Yeah, exactly. 'cause I've seen that, seen that lots of times I've even did it. You know what I mean? Going and replacing something and it doesn't need to be replaced. It's kind of trial by error. And sometimes you have to do that. Sometimes you have to replace a part to figure out something else is broken.
Thank you. Um, one of the things that I tell, especially new guys when they're trying to troubleshoot something is use the rule, divide and conquer.
Do I have power to my solenoid, my compressor, whatever, and it's not working, or do I not have power? So that divides it. Again, it takes you in another direction. But as far as controls go, more often than not, just real quick for the, especially for the new guys, it's usually only two things. Most likely with controls, it's either a bad sensor or a bad transducer.
Yeah, just like, like Andrew mentioned too, on the, on the transducers, and it's very important. You gotta verify this stuff. This is why we have tools, this is why we have gauges. This is why we have, uh, uh, meters. You gotta bring them out and don't always rely on the controller itself. It's a great starting point, but that controller could just say, oh, it's saying minus five.
You'll start remembering them, then you don't have to write them down as much. And I still recommend doing it, having a journal. Well, why would I have a journal? I had a journal, which is a pocket flip pad, and I could flip through it. And I remember years I'd have a stack of little things and I could go through it and find a model number or something that I need that was actually my journal when I looked back.
You, you're gonna have to ask. Uh, another thing is you have an hour on that service call to figure it out. If you get to a point where you don't know what you're doing and you're just totally lost, call somebody. Yeah. Um, you're just spin your bills and let's, let's get, let's get you some help. Um, that's another big thing.
So when they asked me, I already had it down. You know what I mean? So if they ask me AMT draw, I got it. And they ask me how much AMT draw is good. Amra, I have it. How much, or what's my power check, my voltage imbalance? You know, anything, what they asked, I had that answer already for 'em. And then 95% of the time we could fix it right over the phone because I already had all those answers and an hour I had my whole checklist done 5% of the time.
I highly recommend if you're looking to dive deep on, on your supermarket troubleshooting skills service and maintenance system, you're gonna want to check that one out may. Head to the refrigeration mentor.com website. To look for for that. Also, uh, on the website there's gonna be a free compressor and service troubleshooting guide.
The cor sense for examples, uh, cor sense, uh, protection, uh, one, uh, Copeland has under semi hermetics, that one there's always powered up. So that one will always be powered up, but inside the, the controls, it knows when the compressor's off. So it doesn't, it won't send a low pressure alarm if that's the controller on there.
And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Let your friends know that there are people who care, who want to share the refrigeration information to help them get to the next level in their career. If you have not been to the refrigeration mentor website@refrigerationmentor.com, go check it out.
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