July 24, 2025 • 93 mins
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In this episode, we uncover the ins and outs of TX valves, including installation, sizing, settings, and troubleshooting. Joining us is Jamie Kitchen from Danfoss, who shares his vast knowledge on TX valves and the importance of proper setup to avoid common pitfalls. We dive into the principles of superheat, subcooling, and the differences between internal and external equalized TXVs. You’ll also learn how to size valves correctly, the significance of maintaining airflow, and the best practices for adjusting superheat.
In this conversation, we discuss:
-Understanding TX valves and A2L refrigerants
-Proper TX valve setup
-A2L misconceptions
-Refrigerant blends and global warming potential
-Superheat and subcooling
-TX valve operation principles
-Increasing superheat for stability
-Advanced troubleshooting techniques
-Understanding airflow
-Identifying low charge issues
-Proper sizing and capacity of valves
-Adjusting superheat correctly
Helpful Links & Resources:
Episode 16. TXV/TEV - A discussion about Thermostatic Expansion Valves
Episode 293. Transitioning to A2L Refrigerants with Danilo Gualbino
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Trevor (00:00):
Welcome to this webinar. Super pumped up that you're all here. I know there's more that's gonna be joining. Tonight we're gonna be diving into some of my favorite conversations, diving into TX Valve. And we're gonna be diving into a two L refrigerant TX valve. A lot of you have been hearing about a two Ls out there.
(00:01):
Because if you don't set up a TXV properly, you don't install it properly. You can run into a world to hurt. And I see it time and time again. I used to be a technician in the field and I I going into service jobs and I remember talking with the service manager like, Trevor, can you just help me talk with my technicians to stop adjusting the TX valve?
Jamie (00:02):
Alright. Well, as you say, Jamie Kitchen. I'm a technical person that pretends to be an account manager salesperson joined Dan Foss back in 99.
And unless it's installed properly, they're not gonna like it. Right? So all of these things you really gotta deal with and make sure that people are comfortable going forward and understanding what's happening. And then we're all happy, right? The end user's happy, the customer, customer's, customer and Danfoss is happy.
With regulations, leak mitigation, and these are new words that you're gonna start to hear about. Maybe not regulation, but like leak mitigation is something very, very important to understand. And this affects all parts of the industry, residential, light, commercial, commercial, and large ones. So you as a technician out there need to understand working with an A two L if you've been doing it properly.
And so. To be honest with you, you hit the nail on the head. I remember we used to do R two 90 training classes when True and Beverly Jar and these other guys started to switch from R 1 34 A to R two 90 because the efficiencies like 30% jump right? 25% jumping efficiency. It was fabulous. Fabulous. But the issue was it's flammable and let's face it, propane is flammable.
If you're not doing those kinds of things, you're probably not gonna run into a whole lot of issues, especially with the smaller refrigerant charges. Now, a two Ls, they're not nearly as flammable. As say, isobutane or propane, like in other words, the amount of mixture that you need, say refrigerant mass for given space volume is many times larger.
None of this stuff is rocket science. Follow best practices. You'll have the best results. Simple as that. I mean, some of the things you read, you think we're using a highly enriched uranium or something like that, the way they're talking about some of this stuff. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Don't let it go critical.
And you know what? It worked. And just like you said earlier true other manufacturers back in 20 13, 20 12, 20 14, were building this equipment. And I know for sure I'd love to see in the audience the thumbs up who has worked on our two 90 already? Throw in the hands. Or a two l Put your thumbs up. Yeah.
Because what is happening is that our planet's starting to rise up. The temperature's starting to rise, and one, this is only one thing factor refrigerants. Depending on how they're made and designed, they have a global warming potential factor. And so now what refrigerant manufacturers had to do, and like a lot of other industries, not only refrigerants, they have to reduce that global warming factor.
And R 22 is chlor d fluoro, methane. These are all compounds mixed together. What a blend means is you take one of these compounds and you mix it with some other compounds. And some of these compounds, when you mix them all together, say four 10 A or 4 0 4 A or whatever, they will act like a single refrigerant say, for example, and they will boil off at a given rate.
And so that's what gives you your your glide because when you first go into your evaporator. A specific refrigerant is going to boil off faster than the remaining ones, and then the next one boils off. The next one boils off, and this affects your temperature and pressure. We call that glide. From a calculation standpoint, working with a refrigerant blend that acts like a single compound is much easier for a lot of people because we're used to that.
Guess what? All of those refrigerants are in all the other refrigerants as well. They're just different mixtures of things that we've been using. And so nothing is really new. It's just kind of wrapped all together differently. And when you do that, you end up with a different set of characteristics. This one boils at this temperature.
So when you had R 22, it's a single blend refrigerant. Yeah. So that really means that your dew point and your bubble point are the same. Yeah. Like the pressure, temperature scale. But when we get into what Jamie was just talking about in blends where they boil off at different temperatures, that's where you got a different temperature bubble point and dew point.
If you have less refrigerant compared to your load, it means you're gonna run outta liquid sooner in your circuit, which means you have a hundred percent vapor. Now, that vapor now has more highway, more time to pick up heat because remember you're probably blowing in a medium temp refrigeration system, 12, 15 degrees above, maybe 20 degrees above your refrigerant temperature.
Now you got a river or whatever of liquid heading into your compressor. Nobody wants that, right? So that's where your TXV being an adaptable control comes into play there. So if you measure the pressure in the system and convert that to saturation temperature. You'll end up with a value, in this case, eight or 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
If you wanna know what a superheated vapor looks like, look around you. The atmosphere is superheated steam. When it's superheated is clear. Ref gases like refrigerant and that are clear when there's superheated. So if you see. Steam. It is not super heated. If you can see it, it's not super heated.
One you created yourself and one you haven't figured out yet. And two variables as you're a remember from high school is a lot harder to solve than one.
So you've got dry superheated vapor coming outta your compressor. So when it goes into the condenser, the first thing it does is, I don't know, what do we call it? De-super heat. It cools down sensibly, like I'm gonna use the word de-super heat. I just created it. So it's gonna des superheat and the temperature's gonna drop, drop, drop, drop, drop.
The more sub cooling you have, the more the temperature has dropped below the point that it has condensed. So if you want a good picture of what sub cooling is, think about this. Alright? Water boils at a hundred degrees C two 12 Fahrenheit for American friends places where most people live, right? If you live up in Tibet and you're 10,000 feet above sea level, this doesn't apply to you.
So that's kind of how this whole thing works. The now remember, this is important from an efficiency standpoint. You are emptying the bucket in your condenser, and that is the same bucket you're gonna fill in your evaporator. So the amount of heat that you can absorb in your evaporator, the amount of cooling you're gonna do is to fill that bucket up.
Trevor (00:21):
Yeah, and, and I and that's so important to understand that. And then sometimes you can't check it at the, the condenser perfectly, right? Yeah. So you gotta, sometimes you gotta get the pressure from a different, different place. But getting the temperature at the outlet, checking your sub cooling at the outlet of the condenser and checking your sub cooling.
It's pretty easy to use. So if you're in Burn Celsius, great. You can do it in Burn and Celsius. You could do it, yeah. So if you want to change in the p ssi, you just go up here, change the psi, change in the
right? So 106. A hundred. So look at that pressure there. Oh yeah, man. Now hit that. So you got about 2.2 degrees of glide. Is that a big deal? No. Would it make a big difference down the road? No, but you'll have to be aware of it. Now remember, you use your dew point, right? For checking superheat. Use your bubble point for checking sub cooling.
So the point here is that as long as you know what you have, remember information, knowledge is power, right? Yeah. Follow the steps, follow what the recommendation is. Okay. Again, I, I even had to write it down. Dew point is superheat, use your dew point value for superheat. Use your bubble point for sub cooling.
And I just want to point out to everyone, I did make a mistake in the slide, this was still four 10. So you see if we do 4 54 B at one 10, that would be about 25 left, about 365. So you gotta, especially if you're using digital gauges, you gotta make sure that you put the right refrigerant in. So I just want and
I guess that's, lots of people do. So, perfect. Let's get into operation principles. Let's talk about that. 'cause this is important as well. This is how you, you really gotta understand a TX valve, right? When
So the TXV feeds into the evaporator. Alright? So if you look at A TXV, it's got an arrow on it on the side. That's your primary flow direction for what you want to use it. So on the outlet where that arrow was pointed, that's your evaporator. So even though the refrigerant's flowing outta there, it is at the pressure going into the evaporator.
That's what we would call static super heat. That means you, or some people call it factory superheat. That's the amount of superheat you need for the valve to start opening. That's not what it's gonna regulate at. That's what you require to start compressing that spring. So two closing forces. The opening force is your bulb pressure.
Oh my goodness, man, I haven't heard in a while. There's the, the main ones though today that you see is balanced port. Like that's the one that you'll see the most on standard systems like AC systems.
You increase pressure, and so what that does, it pushes that gas, it forces that gas and pushes down on this diaphragm to pushes on the pin. Yeah. Open it up and like Jamie says, you take that spring and down at the bottom and you tighten up that string and there's like a little. Little plate, I don't know what you call that.
And they're small. Yeah. Like you can easily draw blood with the valve stem, the valve seat on some of these smaller txv. So that's small. So it doesn't take much to plug these up.
You know, it, it just, and of course, you know, if, if there's crap in the system on your TXV, there's probably more crap in the system that can let go too. So.
Jamie (00:33):
on what they have for, like, if you look at the top of the valve, that diaphragm is what we call tool steel. Basically it is tempered steel. And so if you heat it up, you're gonna take that temper out of it. If you take that temper out of it. It is going to fail.
Trevor (00:34):
I've been at, yeah, you gotta practice this stuff. So if you, hundred percent you work at a contractor get some soft copper. So soft copper, learn how to learn how to sedge, get a sedge tool.
yeah. Yeah. So, but this happens. I've done it guys. I've done, I've, I've breezed in tx valves without wrapping. You know what I mean? So I'm just telling this is, you gotta wrap that stuff and it takes long. I just wanna ask you one question.
Stainless, all stainless steel And you guys changed to copper or was that it's
And again, if it's set for seven degrees of super heat, you know, three and a half Kelvin, or four Kelvin, or whatever the heck it is, right? Or range, that is what's set. So as long as the pressure where the sensing bulb is, it's pretty darn close to what the pressure is leaving the EVA or leaving the TXV going into the evaporator, right On either end of the evaporator, let's put it that way, and let an outlet, as long as they're pretty close, no problem.
Larger refrigeration systems have a multi circuited evaporator. Don't think just because you have a piston or a cat tube that it's single circuit. It's not right. Remember all the old piston air conditioning systems out there? There's still some of 'em there. They're all multi circuited. If you have a distributor, you absolutely 100% need to use an external equalized valve because here's why.
Alright, and so what ends up happening is the saturation temperature or the actual temperature in your evaporator could be 10, 15 degrees less than what the TXV thinks it's okay. So if the TXV thinks it's 45 degrees and it's actually 35 degrees because of the pressure drop through the distributor, and if your sensing bulb needs seven degrees of superheat to open, again, if the, what'd I say?
Whatever the temperature equivalent of that pressure drop is, you will add that to the superheat opening requirement. So the bigger the pressure drop, the more super heat's gonna be required at the sensing bulb to open it. And again, you're always gonna underfeed that evaporator. So the rule is you can use an external equalized TXV, even if you don't need it, but you can never use an internal equalized one if you need an external equalized one.
So you gotta purge because these can plug up. And now if you plug these up, two things can happen. I've seen it both ways. This is the, the one of the closing forces. So now if you don't have a closing force, you could flood it, but if it plugs up, you also could get refrigerant in this line, which puts a lot of pressure underneath here.
I think it's 15 a PSI 20, depending on the manufacturer. And then you have an orifice type, which goes in, which would go in right here, which you put the block of orifice and there'll be a hole in there. And these can be up to 35 PSI, yeah, 20 to 35 PSI, depending the size of the, the size of the hole. So that's something you gotta be aware of.
Jamie (00:43):
super, eat a little bit. Yeah. Okay. So the thing about the sensing bulb, the charge in the sensing bulb is it's not just refrigerant. And so, just like how we had glide and refrigerants, you can mix and match the components, the gases, whatever you want to call it in the sensing bulb to kind of work on the profile of opening and closing.
But generally speaking, if you're under high load, so think we can either do a walk-in box or we can do a dwelling or whatever, but think you have a room that has a certain load, a whole bunch of people start moving around in there and people give off latent and sensible heat. There's equipment in there firing up, whatever, you increase the heat load on this evaporator, the TXV now is gonna start to open up, but you will still see a slight increase in superheat.
What most people don't realize is T TX vs will give you 20, 30, 40% more capacity than what they're rated at. But do you see how that line kind of bends over at the top? That means that the superheat. Opening relationship of the valve super eat capacity is no longer that accurate. It's not linear anymore.
Because those are the two main things in air conditioning that give you a load, right? Is your latent heat. Remember when we look at setting super heat and sub cooling, what's the indoor value we use? Wet bulb, right? It ain't dry bulb, it's wet bulb. So those are all indications that come together. So the most accurate stroke of this is between nominal load and down below.
Oh, you can, but here's the problem. Every evaporator has what's called a minimum stable superheat curve and see how that TXV has got a straight line ha, that minimum stable super heat is curved. And so if you put it too far, it's gonna be inside that curve at one point and you're gonna start getting liquid sheet out.
It's hunting, it's hunting. Then I just started raising the super heat and then all of a sudden it was perfect. And then I'm like, let me go try this on a TX valve. So then I went and tried to drop this load, and then all of a sudden you would see the, the valve just hunting. 'cause I, I had a bunch of monitors on it.
And you can check the box often and you, you can be a robot if you want, but to do proper troubleshooting, you need to know what would the system be doing if it was running correctly under these conditions, how much humidity you have, what's your temperature, how much load, whatever, you know, what's my voltage?
Put your detective hat on and go through and look at the clues. So airflow, big, big deal. So if you happen to have, let's say, proper airflow, I shouldn't say high airflow. Let's say proper airflow, all right? It's an air conditioning system. You're running at 47 degrees. I show 16 degrees of super eat. You may say, Hey, that's a lot of super eat.
Right? Or you never heard of an air filter before in your life. Mm-hmm. And suddenly your airflow is no longer good. Right? Guess what the THV is gonna do exactly what it's supposed to do. When your load on your evaporator drops because of poor airflow, it's gonna start throttling closed. Now remember, the only way for the compressor pumping to balance the the TXV is for that evaporator pressure to drop as well, because that reduces the pumping pot capacity of the compressor until it matches the lower feed rate of your TXV.
Or maybe you've got your differential on your thermostat set to 12 degrees or something like that, and it's running for two weeks straight. Who knows? Right. But basically you need to figure something out there on what's going on.
Honestly, I've been training people for a long time, and when they started doing this, they're like, Trevor, I'm a way better troubleshooter. And I'm like, yeah, it's quicker too.
Whoops. What happened here? There we go. 12 degrees, maybe it's a bit high, right? Maybe it's supposed to be ten eight. But the point is, is you have a solid column of liquid leaving your condenser or close to it. So if you've got good sub cooling, you ain't got a refrigerant charge. That is not an issue. You have enough refrigerant in the system.
How do you expect your TXV to work with that tiny little opening and you're trying to shove vapor through it, right? Not gonna work. And so it'll also be unstable. A lot of times you'll see it going up and down. You see this a lot of times when people are charging AC systems and they don't put enough refrigerant charge in.
That's the first thing I mentioned when I mentioned super eat sub cooling. On the other hand, that takes place way over there in your condenser that determines your charge. Alright, for an adaptive device, you mentioned EEV and TXV. Those are two adaptive devices that we're talking about.
Trevor (00:57):
Yeah. And here's a little bit of low charge. You wanted to go through that or did you, I think you covered a lot. Yeah, we
Will also change a little bit. It can go down as your load drops because guess what? People, you know what determines the amount of sub cooling you have? It's one thing and that is a temperature difference between the refrigerant and whatever it is you're dumping heat into. So guess what? A bigger condenser, it doesn't give you more sub cooling.
Right. And so if you charge at the 13, you just overcharge that system and they're just, they just dropped two probably, maybe three seer points. Right? And they're not gonna get the money out of it. So congratulations. Right. Make sure there's no rule of thumb to follow here. Make sure you follow those guidelines.
We're not people to sit and do nothing. 'cause that's just our personality traits. And so if you put a toy, like a stereoscopic microscope, we're gonna play with it. And you know, we're always shoving stuff under there to look at it. But these are the images that we take during tear downs. So when you sp send a TXV in, and it's usually a manufacturer, if you get a, a bunch of blockages, multiple ones, and there's a trend we wanna know, right?
In a manufacturing setting. We can be all geeky and control everything, but once it leaves our hands, we no longer have that control over what people do, right? And so what ends up happening is if you put a bit of of, of acid neutralizer in, fine, we got no problem with that. But if you put five times as much as what you're supposed to have in there, now you're gonna have an issue because it's gonna start reacting with things and you're gonna produce some salt.
Jamie (01:02):
that's okay. Alright, so this is an argument that I have, I should say an argument because there's no wrong or right.
It's the same temperature. It's the same temperature jv, doesn't it? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Always the same temperature. Yeah. There's, there's, yeah. There's no temperature, everybody, so, so I really don't care whose bulb strap you use as long as it's metallic. All right. If it conducts electricity, it conducts heat.
So you have this heat train, then that conducts from the pipe up into the bulb. That makes it far more reactive and efficient. If you want to increase the amount of superheat that you have for destabilizing the TXV, if you want it to happen at five degrees instead of three, just loosen that TXV up a little bit and it will become unstable a lot quicker than it does if it's properly mounted and insulated.
sounds silly 'cause Yeah. Come on man. That's an old wise tail. The liquid's gonna leak outta the bulb. Well, it does, right? So it's just because the temperature differences and things like that. And people say, Hey, if you put it at nine o'clock or 12 o'clock, or whatever.
If you don't have a bend, put it at nine or three o'clock if you can. Right. Somewhere in that area, you're trying to avoid the meniscus at the bottom, which is just the surface tension, tension of the oil that has a natural reaction to go upwards. Okay? The smaller the pipe, the farther that oil is gonna reach up.
Trevor (01:07):
Let's we're we're, I wanna thank everyone for taking the time and, and watching and staying here.
However, if I ask them what happens next, they can't answer that probably because they do not see it from a system-wide standpoint. Whatever that TXV does, it isn't in eva, right? If it puts more refrigerant into the evaporator, the compressor then has to pump more refrigerant. That's adding more energy to the system, and so your entire balance then gets thrown off.
And this is very important because we use standard standard conditions to select equipment so that we can compare apples to apples between everybody because you can make something, perform any way you want as long as you mix and match the conditions, right? So you have a standard, so if you, you're selecting it for a freezer or a cooler for humidification, for sensible only, you size it based on those conditions so that when you throw it all together, hopefully not from across the street, right?
So take your home fridge. It is designed to handle a fixed load, right? You're supposed to put stuff in there that's already cold. It's the same as a walk-in box, right? It's not designed for pull down. So if you put a 24 beer in your fridge, it ain't gonna be cold in five minutes. It's gonna take hours and hours and hours.
Now you're gonna have alarms everywhere, right? And now you're gonna be in a problem because that product has stayed warm, too warm for too long and it's no longer has any value, right? So these are the things that make them stand out, right? So when are you gonna see an undersized TXV? Unless it's drastically undersized.
But if you have a one ton unit cooler evaporator in an ice cream freezer at minus 20, that nominal one ton valve is gonna give you half a ton. Yeah. If you need one ton, you're gonna be grossly underside. So remember, we get lazy a little bit in air conditioning because you don't get that much of a temperature range, 42, 40, 46, 45, whatever.
So we all make guides. All right. Here's our TXV selection chart. You've usually got nominal capacity, and then you've got the refrigerant and your evaporator temperatures. So find the refrigerant, find your evaporator temperature, and you go down there until you see the first capacity that's equal to or larger than your evaporator capacity.
And I've seen it before too, where the, from the manufacturer, it was the wrong valve. So the back pressure was super high. Right? Like in a super high back pressure or a suction pressure. Some people say back suction pressure, it's really high because it couldn't, it, it couldn't that the orifice was too small in it.
Yeah, totally. Alright. That's outside for upstream obstructions. Yeah. Right. This kind of falls under their snot, that TXV, so electrical. Think back in tech school, high school, right? You got 24 volts, or probably 26 volts at your control transformer. You got zero volts at your relay coil and there's supposed to be voltage there.
Imagine if people did that with electrical. Oh, I got zero volts out my relay. I'm gonna put two transformers in now to supply power, right? Without ever checking it. Nobody'd ever do that. But we do it with refrigerant. So if you have flash gas at your TXV, in other words, you take that measurement, the TXV is hunting, find out where that sub cooling went.
Then he got into supermarket, refrigerator, watches this one video. Over the weekend he did the whole program, but he was like, Trevor. He messaged me. He is like, Trevor, I watched your video. My lead technician went into the store and he, he changed the TX valve and he did this and that. And I got called out to that store and I watched one your videos where he said to take the two temperature probes and put it across all the, the components.
keep in mind the pressure drop through a filter dryer. Get this, are you ready? Now is determined by the connection size, not the volume size. So you can have a 16 cubic inch dryer and if you put a certain capacity through it, you're gonna have twice the pressure drop with a three eight inch connection as you will with a half.
It's plugged. Yeah. Now whether it's plugged bad enough to c to, to, you know, want you to change it out, that's your call. Just remember it's never gonna get better, right. So yeah, maybe sometime when the system's down, change it, make a note, whatever. But again, that's just up to you. It's never gonna get better.
I do know in the early days of the pulse with modulated valves, the EVs, they're like a, they're like a solenoid valve that open and closed. Okay. And that the amount of time it's open compared to the amount of time it's closed over a given period of time determines your capacity. They can create a pressure wave in the refrigerant line and if you put your dryer too close, sometimes that pressure wave can cause the connection to crack.
So you know, your pool filter, your pool filter, if you run the water back to clean it out, it dumps all the crap out. That's what would happen with the regular dry if you tried to back it up. Right. You just put all the system, the crap back in the system again. So they do have those baffles in them, those veins.
If you turn the stem clockwise, you are compressing that spring. So you're increasing super heat, which means pushing the bulb. Temperature needs to have a greater temperature difference between the evaporator in itself. In order for the valve to open up. You reverse it. You lower the, the, the super heat that the valve's gonna start to open.
You don't wanna pull down too quick 'cause you don't wanna mess up the concrete and everything, but you're slowly pulling it down. So what you're going to see is your super heat's gonna go way up and then it's gonna come down. 'cause remember the mass of air that's inside that cooler. Is a fraction of the mass, of the rest, of the, of the cooler itself and the floor and whatnot.
You don't wanna adjust it when the super eat is moving. 'cause it's a, it's a moving target. Now if you're not pulling down and the super eat stays high, then you can maybe adjust it and do it in steps, right? To get it down. But overall, what you wanna do is let it go through a cycle and once it gets close to being satisfied, pretty close to where it's gonna kind of, we spend most of the time operating right, maybe above, cut off a little bit.
He still be fast acting and so make sure you're prepared. Keep a note on the amount that you change it, the values and the time. Let's say you're decreasing superheat and the valve was stuck and suddenly you've lowered the superheat enough that boom, whatever was causing the valve to stick flies open.
So service calls a day, you can't remember what happened on Monday. And that service call that place that you don't even remember the name of the business sometimes. You know what I mean? So. Note and take, be detailed about this stuff and it's just gonna help you in the long run. Yep. I, I really like that.
People never seen 'em before. And if it's doing something completely different than what you're used to and you can't adjust it, no wonder they're frustrated. Right. So that's on us, right? You need to educate and train people to make sure that they're comfortable and they know what they're doing. So,
(01:28):
It's, it's kind of like a European thing. We probably make it a bit more complicated than it needs to be, but there's a lot of good material in there and we're in the process of updating it. And so you're gonna see a lot of good changes and things like that. So Danfoss e-learning go in, learn even if everything from the basics to CO2, to ammonia controllers, all kinds of stuff.
So don't limit yourself by being afraid. Trust me, man. If you have a question and you can get an answer, that's a positive, right? Don't make the same mistakes over and over again. So reach out and get the information you need.
Jamie (01:30):
about, can I spend two seconds and just talk about one thing? The T six valve? Yeah, no, let's do that. Let's talk. Alright. So not to pay the bills, but we kinda gotta pay the bills here.
Your system capacity and it's set up so that it's, you know, one and a half to three, three and a half to four or five. You pick your range of capacities on the side of the box, your refrigerant, and you're good to go. So it replaces multiple, multiple, multiple OEM valves with one or two or three codes you can serve as any air conditioning system you see out there.
Basically if you want, our guys, our sales guys, our account managers are out talking to wholesalers and whatnot. But essentially, if you want, you can reach out to me, but wholesalers are gonna be having a lot of marketing campaigns and promos on for this. So go into your local wholesaler and say, Hey, I wanna know more about this Danfoss TR six valve, because again, it is something that these, they should have on the shelf because they're gonna sell and they're gonna be available everywhere.
I hope all of you learned out there. Once again, invest in yourself. Take the time. You did it here tonight and, and today, wherever you're at in the world, you're investing in yourself and continue share this knowledge with other people. This is the only way you get better. Why me and Jamie know so much is 'cause we keep sharing knowledge.
Welcome to this webinar. Super pumped up that you're all here. I know there's more that's gonna be joining. Tonight we're gonna be diving into some of my favorite conversations, diving into TX Valve. And we're gonna be diving into a two L refrigerant TX valve. A lot of you have been hearing about a two Ls out there.
(00:01):
Because if you don't set up a TXV properly, you don't install it properly. You can run into a world to hurt. And I see it time and time again. I used to be a technician in the field and I I going into service jobs and I remember talking with the service manager like, Trevor, can you just help me talk with my technicians to stop adjusting the TX valve?
Jamie (00:02):
Alright. Well, as you say, Jamie Kitchen. I'm a technical person that pretends to be an account manager salesperson joined Dan Foss back in 99.
And unless it's installed properly, they're not gonna like it. Right? So all of these things you really gotta deal with and make sure that people are comfortable going forward and understanding what's happening. And then we're all happy, right? The end user's happy, the customer, customer's, customer and Danfoss is happy.
With regulations, leak mitigation, and these are new words that you're gonna start to hear about. Maybe not regulation, but like leak mitigation is something very, very important to understand. And this affects all parts of the industry, residential, light, commercial, commercial, and large ones. So you as a technician out there need to understand working with an A two L if you've been doing it properly.
And so. To be honest with you, you hit the nail on the head. I remember we used to do R two 90 training classes when True and Beverly Jar and these other guys started to switch from R 1 34 A to R two 90 because the efficiencies like 30% jump right? 25% jumping efficiency. It was fabulous. Fabulous. But the issue was it's flammable and let's face it, propane is flammable.
If you're not doing those kinds of things, you're probably not gonna run into a whole lot of issues, especially with the smaller refrigerant charges. Now, a two Ls, they're not nearly as flammable. As say, isobutane or propane, like in other words, the amount of mixture that you need, say refrigerant mass for given space volume is many times larger.
None of this stuff is rocket science. Follow best practices. You'll have the best results. Simple as that. I mean, some of the things you read, you think we're using a highly enriched uranium or something like that, the way they're talking about some of this stuff. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Don't let it go critical.
And you know what? It worked. And just like you said earlier true other manufacturers back in 20 13, 20 12, 20 14, were building this equipment. And I know for sure I'd love to see in the audience the thumbs up who has worked on our two 90 already? Throw in the hands. Or a two l Put your thumbs up. Yeah.
Because what is happening is that our planet's starting to rise up. The temperature's starting to rise, and one, this is only one thing factor refrigerants. Depending on how they're made and designed, they have a global warming potential factor. And so now what refrigerant manufacturers had to do, and like a lot of other industries, not only refrigerants, they have to reduce that global warming factor.
And R 22 is chlor d fluoro, methane. These are all compounds mixed together. What a blend means is you take one of these compounds and you mix it with some other compounds. And some of these compounds, when you mix them all together, say four 10 A or 4 0 4 A or whatever, they will act like a single refrigerant say, for example, and they will boil off at a given rate.
And so that's what gives you your your glide because when you first go into your evaporator. A specific refrigerant is going to boil off faster than the remaining ones, and then the next one boils off. The next one boils off, and this affects your temperature and pressure. We call that glide. From a calculation standpoint, working with a refrigerant blend that acts like a single compound is much easier for a lot of people because we're used to that.
Guess what? All of those refrigerants are in all the other refrigerants as well. They're just different mixtures of things that we've been using. And so nothing is really new. It's just kind of wrapped all together differently. And when you do that, you end up with a different set of characteristics. This one boils at this temperature.
So when you had R 22, it's a single blend refrigerant. Yeah. So that really means that your dew point and your bubble point are the same. Yeah. Like the pressure, temperature scale. But when we get into what Jamie was just talking about in blends where they boil off at different temperatures, that's where you got a different temperature bubble point and dew point.
If you have less refrigerant compared to your load, it means you're gonna run outta liquid sooner in your circuit, which means you have a hundred percent vapor. Now, that vapor now has more highway, more time to pick up heat because remember you're probably blowing in a medium temp refrigeration system, 12, 15 degrees above, maybe 20 degrees above your refrigerant temperature.
Now you got a river or whatever of liquid heading into your compressor. Nobody wants that, right? So that's where your TXV being an adaptable control comes into play there. So if you measure the pressure in the system and convert that to saturation temperature. You'll end up with a value, in this case, eight or 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
If you wanna know what a superheated vapor looks like, look around you. The atmosphere is superheated steam. When it's superheated is clear. Ref gases like refrigerant and that are clear when there's superheated. So if you see. Steam. It is not super heated. If you can see it, it's not super heated.
One you created yourself and one you haven't figured out yet. And two variables as you're a remember from high school is a lot harder to solve than one.
So you've got dry superheated vapor coming outta your compressor. So when it goes into the condenser, the first thing it does is, I don't know, what do we call it? De-super heat. It cools down sensibly, like I'm gonna use the word de-super heat. I just created it. So it's gonna des superheat and the temperature's gonna drop, drop, drop, drop, drop.
The more sub cooling you have, the more the temperature has dropped below the point that it has condensed. So if you want a good picture of what sub cooling is, think about this. Alright? Water boils at a hundred degrees C two 12 Fahrenheit for American friends places where most people live, right? If you live up in Tibet and you're 10,000 feet above sea level, this doesn't apply to you.
So that's kind of how this whole thing works. The now remember, this is important from an efficiency standpoint. You are emptying the bucket in your condenser, and that is the same bucket you're gonna fill in your evaporator. So the amount of heat that you can absorb in your evaporator, the amount of cooling you're gonna do is to fill that bucket up.
Trevor (00:21):
Yeah, and, and I and that's so important to understand that. And then sometimes you can't check it at the, the condenser perfectly, right? Yeah. So you gotta, sometimes you gotta get the pressure from a different, different place. But getting the temperature at the outlet, checking your sub cooling at the outlet of the condenser and checking your sub cooling.
It's pretty easy to use. So if you're in Burn Celsius, great. You can do it in Burn and Celsius. You could do it, yeah. So if you want to change in the p ssi, you just go up here, change the psi, change in the
right? So 106. A hundred. So look at that pressure there. Oh yeah, man. Now hit that. So you got about 2.2 degrees of glide. Is that a big deal? No. Would it make a big difference down the road? No, but you'll have to be aware of it. Now remember, you use your dew point, right? For checking superheat. Use your bubble point for checking sub cooling.
So the point here is that as long as you know what you have, remember information, knowledge is power, right? Yeah. Follow the steps, follow what the recommendation is. Okay. Again, I, I even had to write it down. Dew point is superheat, use your dew point value for superheat. Use your bubble point for sub cooling.
And I just want to point out to everyone, I did make a mistake in the slide, this was still four 10. So you see if we do 4 54 B at one 10, that would be about 25 left, about 365. So you gotta, especially if you're using digital gauges, you gotta make sure that you put the right refrigerant in. So I just want and
I guess that's, lots of people do. So, perfect. Let's get into operation principles. Let's talk about that. 'cause this is important as well. This is how you, you really gotta understand a TX valve, right? When
So the TXV feeds into the evaporator. Alright? So if you look at A TXV, it's got an arrow on it on the side. That's your primary flow direction for what you want to use it. So on the outlet where that arrow was pointed, that's your evaporator. So even though the refrigerant's flowing outta there, it is at the pressure going into the evaporator.
That's what we would call static super heat. That means you, or some people call it factory superheat. That's the amount of superheat you need for the valve to start opening. That's not what it's gonna regulate at. That's what you require to start compressing that spring. So two closing forces. The opening force is your bulb pressure.
Oh my goodness, man, I haven't heard in a while. There's the, the main ones though today that you see is balanced port. Like that's the one that you'll see the most on standard systems like AC systems.
You increase pressure, and so what that does, it pushes that gas, it forces that gas and pushes down on this diaphragm to pushes on the pin. Yeah. Open it up and like Jamie says, you take that spring and down at the bottom and you tighten up that string and there's like a little. Little plate, I don't know what you call that.
And they're small. Yeah. Like you can easily draw blood with the valve stem, the valve seat on some of these smaller txv. So that's small. So it doesn't take much to plug these up.
You know, it, it just, and of course, you know, if, if there's crap in the system on your TXV, there's probably more crap in the system that can let go too. So.
Jamie (00:33):
on what they have for, like, if you look at the top of the valve, that diaphragm is what we call tool steel. Basically it is tempered steel. And so if you heat it up, you're gonna take that temper out of it. If you take that temper out of it. It is going to fail.
Trevor (00:34):
I've been at, yeah, you gotta practice this stuff. So if you, hundred percent you work at a contractor get some soft copper. So soft copper, learn how to learn how to sedge, get a sedge tool.
yeah. Yeah. So, but this happens. I've done it guys. I've done, I've, I've breezed in tx valves without wrapping. You know what I mean? So I'm just telling this is, you gotta wrap that stuff and it takes long. I just wanna ask you one question.
Stainless, all stainless steel And you guys changed to copper or was that it's
And again, if it's set for seven degrees of super heat, you know, three and a half Kelvin, or four Kelvin, or whatever the heck it is, right? Or range, that is what's set. So as long as the pressure where the sensing bulb is, it's pretty darn close to what the pressure is leaving the EVA or leaving the TXV going into the evaporator, right On either end of the evaporator, let's put it that way, and let an outlet, as long as they're pretty close, no problem.
Larger refrigeration systems have a multi circuited evaporator. Don't think just because you have a piston or a cat tube that it's single circuit. It's not right. Remember all the old piston air conditioning systems out there? There's still some of 'em there. They're all multi circuited. If you have a distributor, you absolutely 100% need to use an external equalized valve because here's why.
Alright, and so what ends up happening is the saturation temperature or the actual temperature in your evaporator could be 10, 15 degrees less than what the TXV thinks it's okay. So if the TXV thinks it's 45 degrees and it's actually 35 degrees because of the pressure drop through the distributor, and if your sensing bulb needs seven degrees of superheat to open, again, if the, what'd I say?
Whatever the temperature equivalent of that pressure drop is, you will add that to the superheat opening requirement. So the bigger the pressure drop, the more super heat's gonna be required at the sensing bulb to open it. And again, you're always gonna underfeed that evaporator. So the rule is you can use an external equalized TXV, even if you don't need it, but you can never use an internal equalized one if you need an external equalized one.
So you gotta purge because these can plug up. And now if you plug these up, two things can happen. I've seen it both ways. This is the, the one of the closing forces. So now if you don't have a closing force, you could flood it, but if it plugs up, you also could get refrigerant in this line, which puts a lot of pressure underneath here.
I think it's 15 a PSI 20, depending on the manufacturer. And then you have an orifice type, which goes in, which would go in right here, which you put the block of orifice and there'll be a hole in there. And these can be up to 35 PSI, yeah, 20 to 35 PSI, depending the size of the, the size of the hole. So that's something you gotta be aware of.
Jamie (00:43):
super, eat a little bit. Yeah. Okay. So the thing about the sensing bulb, the charge in the sensing bulb is it's not just refrigerant. And so, just like how we had glide and refrigerants, you can mix and match the components, the gases, whatever you want to call it in the sensing bulb to kind of work on the profile of opening and closing.
But generally speaking, if you're under high load, so think we can either do a walk-in box or we can do a dwelling or whatever, but think you have a room that has a certain load, a whole bunch of people start moving around in there and people give off latent and sensible heat. There's equipment in there firing up, whatever, you increase the heat load on this evaporator, the TXV now is gonna start to open up, but you will still see a slight increase in superheat.
What most people don't realize is T TX vs will give you 20, 30, 40% more capacity than what they're rated at. But do you see how that line kind of bends over at the top? That means that the superheat. Opening relationship of the valve super eat capacity is no longer that accurate. It's not linear anymore.
Because those are the two main things in air conditioning that give you a load, right? Is your latent heat. Remember when we look at setting super heat and sub cooling, what's the indoor value we use? Wet bulb, right? It ain't dry bulb, it's wet bulb. So those are all indications that come together. So the most accurate stroke of this is between nominal load and down below.
Oh, you can, but here's the problem. Every evaporator has what's called a minimum stable superheat curve and see how that TXV has got a straight line ha, that minimum stable super heat is curved. And so if you put it too far, it's gonna be inside that curve at one point and you're gonna start getting liquid sheet out.
It's hunting, it's hunting. Then I just started raising the super heat and then all of a sudden it was perfect. And then I'm like, let me go try this on a TX valve. So then I went and tried to drop this load, and then all of a sudden you would see the, the valve just hunting. 'cause I, I had a bunch of monitors on it.
And you can check the box often and you, you can be a robot if you want, but to do proper troubleshooting, you need to know what would the system be doing if it was running correctly under these conditions, how much humidity you have, what's your temperature, how much load, whatever, you know, what's my voltage?
Put your detective hat on and go through and look at the clues. So airflow, big, big deal. So if you happen to have, let's say, proper airflow, I shouldn't say high airflow. Let's say proper airflow, all right? It's an air conditioning system. You're running at 47 degrees. I show 16 degrees of super eat. You may say, Hey, that's a lot of super eat.
Right? Or you never heard of an air filter before in your life. Mm-hmm. And suddenly your airflow is no longer good. Right? Guess what the THV is gonna do exactly what it's supposed to do. When your load on your evaporator drops because of poor airflow, it's gonna start throttling closed. Now remember, the only way for the compressor pumping to balance the the TXV is for that evaporator pressure to drop as well, because that reduces the pumping pot capacity of the compressor until it matches the lower feed rate of your TXV.
Or maybe you've got your differential on your thermostat set to 12 degrees or something like that, and it's running for two weeks straight. Who knows? Right. But basically you need to figure something out there on what's going on.
Honestly, I've been training people for a long time, and when they started doing this, they're like, Trevor, I'm a way better troubleshooter. And I'm like, yeah, it's quicker too.
Whoops. What happened here? There we go. 12 degrees, maybe it's a bit high, right? Maybe it's supposed to be ten eight. But the point is, is you have a solid column of liquid leaving your condenser or close to it. So if you've got good sub cooling, you ain't got a refrigerant charge. That is not an issue. You have enough refrigerant in the system.
How do you expect your TXV to work with that tiny little opening and you're trying to shove vapor through it, right? Not gonna work. And so it'll also be unstable. A lot of times you'll see it going up and down. You see this a lot of times when people are charging AC systems and they don't put enough refrigerant charge in.
That's the first thing I mentioned when I mentioned super eat sub cooling. On the other hand, that takes place way over there in your condenser that determines your charge. Alright, for an adaptive device, you mentioned EEV and TXV. Those are two adaptive devices that we're talking about.
Trevor (00:57):
Yeah. And here's a little bit of low charge. You wanted to go through that or did you, I think you covered a lot. Yeah, we
Will also change a little bit. It can go down as your load drops because guess what? People, you know what determines the amount of sub cooling you have? It's one thing and that is a temperature difference between the refrigerant and whatever it is you're dumping heat into. So guess what? A bigger condenser, it doesn't give you more sub cooling.
Right. And so if you charge at the 13, you just overcharge that system and they're just, they just dropped two probably, maybe three seer points. Right? And they're not gonna get the money out of it. So congratulations. Right. Make sure there's no rule of thumb to follow here. Make sure you follow those guidelines.
We're not people to sit and do nothing. 'cause that's just our personality traits. And so if you put a toy, like a stereoscopic microscope, we're gonna play with it. And you know, we're always shoving stuff under there to look at it. But these are the images that we take during tear downs. So when you sp send a TXV in, and it's usually a manufacturer, if you get a, a bunch of blockages, multiple ones, and there's a trend we wanna know, right?
In a manufacturing setting. We can be all geeky and control everything, but once it leaves our hands, we no longer have that control over what people do, right? And so what ends up happening is if you put a bit of of, of acid neutralizer in, fine, we got no problem with that. But if you put five times as much as what you're supposed to have in there, now you're gonna have an issue because it's gonna start reacting with things and you're gonna produce some salt.
Jamie (01:02):
that's okay. Alright, so this is an argument that I have, I should say an argument because there's no wrong or right.
It's the same temperature. It's the same temperature jv, doesn't it? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Always the same temperature. Yeah. There's, there's, yeah. There's no temperature, everybody, so, so I really don't care whose bulb strap you use as long as it's metallic. All right. If it conducts electricity, it conducts heat.
So you have this heat train, then that conducts from the pipe up into the bulb. That makes it far more reactive and efficient. If you want to increase the amount of superheat that you have for destabilizing the TXV, if you want it to happen at five degrees instead of three, just loosen that TXV up a little bit and it will become unstable a lot quicker than it does if it's properly mounted and insulated.
sounds silly 'cause Yeah. Come on man. That's an old wise tail. The liquid's gonna leak outta the bulb. Well, it does, right? So it's just because the temperature differences and things like that. And people say, Hey, if you put it at nine o'clock or 12 o'clock, or whatever.
If you don't have a bend, put it at nine or three o'clock if you can. Right. Somewhere in that area, you're trying to avoid the meniscus at the bottom, which is just the surface tension, tension of the oil that has a natural reaction to go upwards. Okay? The smaller the pipe, the farther that oil is gonna reach up.
Trevor (01:07):
Let's we're we're, I wanna thank everyone for taking the time and, and watching and staying here.
However, if I ask them what happens next, they can't answer that probably because they do not see it from a system-wide standpoint. Whatever that TXV does, it isn't in eva, right? If it puts more refrigerant into the evaporator, the compressor then has to pump more refrigerant. That's adding more energy to the system, and so your entire balance then gets thrown off.
And this is very important because we use standard standard conditions to select equipment so that we can compare apples to apples between everybody because you can make something, perform any way you want as long as you mix and match the conditions, right? So you have a standard, so if you, you're selecting it for a freezer or a cooler for humidification, for sensible only, you size it based on those conditions so that when you throw it all together, hopefully not from across the street, right?
So take your home fridge. It is designed to handle a fixed load, right? You're supposed to put stuff in there that's already cold. It's the same as a walk-in box, right? It's not designed for pull down. So if you put a 24 beer in your fridge, it ain't gonna be cold in five minutes. It's gonna take hours and hours and hours.
Now you're gonna have alarms everywhere, right? And now you're gonna be in a problem because that product has stayed warm, too warm for too long and it's no longer has any value, right? So these are the things that make them stand out, right? So when are you gonna see an undersized TXV? Unless it's drastically undersized.
But if you have a one ton unit cooler evaporator in an ice cream freezer at minus 20, that nominal one ton valve is gonna give you half a ton. Yeah. If you need one ton, you're gonna be grossly underside. So remember, we get lazy a little bit in air conditioning because you don't get that much of a temperature range, 42, 40, 46, 45, whatever.
So we all make guides. All right. Here's our TXV selection chart. You've usually got nominal capacity, and then you've got the refrigerant and your evaporator temperatures. So find the refrigerant, find your evaporator temperature, and you go down there until you see the first capacity that's equal to or larger than your evaporator capacity.
And I've seen it before too, where the, from the manufacturer, it was the wrong valve. So the back pressure was super high. Right? Like in a super high back pressure or a suction pressure. Some people say back suction pressure, it's really high because it couldn't, it, it couldn't that the orifice was too small in it.
Yeah, totally. Alright. That's outside for upstream obstructions. Yeah. Right. This kind of falls under their snot, that TXV, so electrical. Think back in tech school, high school, right? You got 24 volts, or probably 26 volts at your control transformer. You got zero volts at your relay coil and there's supposed to be voltage there.
Imagine if people did that with electrical. Oh, I got zero volts out my relay. I'm gonna put two transformers in now to supply power, right? Without ever checking it. Nobody'd ever do that. But we do it with refrigerant. So if you have flash gas at your TXV, in other words, you take that measurement, the TXV is hunting, find out where that sub cooling went.
Then he got into supermarket, refrigerator, watches this one video. Over the weekend he did the whole program, but he was like, Trevor. He messaged me. He is like, Trevor, I watched your video. My lead technician went into the store and he, he changed the TX valve and he did this and that. And I got called out to that store and I watched one your videos where he said to take the two temperature probes and put it across all the, the components.
keep in mind the pressure drop through a filter dryer. Get this, are you ready? Now is determined by the connection size, not the volume size. So you can have a 16 cubic inch dryer and if you put a certain capacity through it, you're gonna have twice the pressure drop with a three eight inch connection as you will with a half.
It's plugged. Yeah. Now whether it's plugged bad enough to c to, to, you know, want you to change it out, that's your call. Just remember it's never gonna get better, right. So yeah, maybe sometime when the system's down, change it, make a note, whatever. But again, that's just up to you. It's never gonna get better.
I do know in the early days of the pulse with modulated valves, the EVs, they're like a, they're like a solenoid valve that open and closed. Okay. And that the amount of time it's open compared to the amount of time it's closed over a given period of time determines your capacity. They can create a pressure wave in the refrigerant line and if you put your dryer too close, sometimes that pressure wave can cause the connection to crack.
So you know, your pool filter, your pool filter, if you run the water back to clean it out, it dumps all the crap out. That's what would happen with the regular dry if you tried to back it up. Right. You just put all the system, the crap back in the system again. So they do have those baffles in them, those veins.
If you turn the stem clockwise, you are compressing that spring. So you're increasing super heat, which means pushing the bulb. Temperature needs to have a greater temperature difference between the evaporator in itself. In order for the valve to open up. You reverse it. You lower the, the, the super heat that the valve's gonna start to open.
You don't wanna pull down too quick 'cause you don't wanna mess up the concrete and everything, but you're slowly pulling it down. So what you're going to see is your super heat's gonna go way up and then it's gonna come down. 'cause remember the mass of air that's inside that cooler. Is a fraction of the mass, of the rest, of the, of the cooler itself and the floor and whatnot.
You don't wanna adjust it when the super eat is moving. 'cause it's a, it's a moving target. Now if you're not pulling down and the super eat stays high, then you can maybe adjust it and do it in steps, right? To get it down. But overall, what you wanna do is let it go through a cycle and once it gets close to being satisfied, pretty close to where it's gonna kind of, we spend most of the time operating right, maybe above, cut off a little bit.
He still be fast acting and so make sure you're prepared. Keep a note on the amount that you change it, the values and the time. Let's say you're decreasing superheat and the valve was stuck and suddenly you've lowered the superheat enough that boom, whatever was causing the valve to stick flies open.
So service calls a day, you can't remember what happened on Monday. And that service call that place that you don't even remember the name of the business sometimes. You know what I mean? So. Note and take, be detailed about this stuff and it's just gonna help you in the long run. Yep. I, I really like that.
People never seen 'em before. And if it's doing something completely different than what you're used to and you can't adjust it, no wonder they're frustrated. Right. So that's on us, right? You need to educate and train people to make sure that they're comfortable and they know what they're doing. So,
(01:28):
It's, it's kind of like a European thing. We probably make it a bit more complicated than it needs to be, but there's a lot of good material in there and we're in the process of updating it. And so you're gonna see a lot of good changes and things like that. So Danfoss e-learning go in, learn even if everything from the basics to CO2, to ammonia controllers, all kinds of stuff.
So don't limit yourself by being afraid. Trust me, man. If you have a question and you can get an answer, that's a positive, right? Don't make the same mistakes over and over again. So reach out and get the information you need.
Jamie (01:30):
about, can I spend two seconds and just talk about one thing? The T six valve? Yeah, no, let's do that. Let's talk. Alright. So not to pay the bills, but we kinda gotta pay the bills here.
Your system capacity and it's set up so that it's, you know, one and a half to three, three and a half to four or five. You pick your range of capacities on the side of the box, your refrigerant, and you're good to go. So it replaces multiple, multiple, multiple OEM valves with one or two or three codes you can serve as any air conditioning system you see out there.
Basically if you want, our guys, our sales guys, our account managers are out talking to wholesalers and whatnot. But essentially, if you want, you can reach out to me, but wholesalers are gonna be having a lot of marketing campaigns and promos on for this. So go into your local wholesaler and say, Hey, I wanna know more about this Danfoss TR six valve, because again, it is something that these, they should have on the shelf because they're gonna sell and they're gonna be available everywhere.
I hope all of you learned out there. Once again, invest in yourself. Take the time. You did it here tonight and, and today, wherever you're at in the world, you're investing in yourself and continue share this knowledge with other people. This is the only way you get better. Why me and Jamie know so much is 'cause we keep sharing knowledge.
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