February 26, 2024 • 33 mins
Discover the power of legacy and philanthropy as Andy Ragone, co-founder and CEO of Pleiades Nonprofit Advisors LLC, joins me for a transformative discussion that spans from his time in pastoral ministry to the intricacies of nonprofit gift planning. Weaving a narrative that connects the guidance of the ancient Pleiades star cluster to the strategic navigation required in the nonprofit sector, Andy illuminates the often missed opportunities within planned giving. Together, we explore the potential for nonprofits to secure their financial future through savvy wealth stewardship and the mutual benefits donors enjoy when engaging in philanthropy with foresight.
Embark on an insightful journey into the strategic interplay between tax incentives and charitable giving, where nonprofits and donors find harmony in their goals. Our conversation demystifies the complexities surrounding professional development roles, marketing initiatives, and the crucial education needed to elevate the philanthropic landscape. As a fractional gift planning officer, I share compelling examples of how my firm broadens the horizons of giving, extending beyond disposable income to tap into the more substantial wealth reserves, thus enabling donors and nonprofits to flourish together.
Our episode concludes with a candid look at the immediate and profound impact that implementing planned giving programs can have on charities. Andy shares that the return on investment for these programs often begins within just a year, challenging traditional fundraising timelines. While we missed the insights of the experienced Kimberly from the Orange Catholic Foundation, the episode pays tribute to her influence in the sector. We wrap up with a conversation on the importance of experiencing the ripple effects of our generosity within our lifetimes, inspiring you to consider how you might begin crafting your legacy right now.
Andy Ragone
(562) 568-5700
andy@pleiadesnpa.com
www.pleiadesnpa.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ron Greenwald (00:28):
Welcome in.
My name is Ron Greenwald.
This is the Ron Greenwaldpodcast.
This podcast is a lightning rodfor informed decision making as
you weave your way through whatwe call life.
Life is going to have a lot oftwist and turns and we kind of
use the term now improv, but wehave guests that are going to
(00:51):
give you tools to maybe reducethat improvisational role and
give you some ideas of how youcan leave a legacy now and then
in the future.
I am honored to have as myguest today Andy Ragone.
Did I say that right, andy?
Andy Ragone (01:12):
That's good enough.
Ron Greenwald (01:13):
No, no, no, no, no.
Ragone Right, yes, ragone,ragone.
Okay, he is the CEO and partnerand co-founder of here's
another one, pleiades.
Pleiades nonprofit advisors LLC.
Andy Ragone (01:31):
We're just here to make things difficult for you,
ron.
Yes, pleiades, that's correct,pleiades.
Ron Greenwald (01:39):
Andy, tell us a little bit about your background
and a little bit about yourself, so we can move and you can
take a journey into what you'redoing today.
Andy Ragone (01:49):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, that can be a fairly longstory, but I'll give you a
short version.
Ron Greenwald (01:53):
Yeah, I'll give you the short version.
Andy Ragone (01:57):
So, yeah, so we started Pleiades.
My business partner, kimberlyJiton, and I we had known each
other for probably about sevenyears prior to.
I worked for a gift planningorganization called Crescendo
and kind of cut my teeth in thegift planning space based on
what I learned there.
So we started Pleiades in lightof the fact that we saw a
(02:23):
specific area that nonprofitsneeded help with and we felt
like we could be able to fitthat particular space well.
Prior to being with Crescendo,I was in pastoral ministry as a
pastor, serving as a pastor forprobably the better part of 30
years.
So at least in that nonprofitspace as well, a little bit
(02:44):
different when you're in thechurch world, but at the end of
the day, there's somesimilarities too.
Ron Greenwald (02:50):
So, Andy, as someone who has, I like to delve
into that a little bit.
How do you go from pastor tocrescendo?
Was that the pastor tocrescendo?
If you don't mind, I have todelve into that.
Andy Ragone (03:07):
Yeah, so as a pastor I mean, like any sort of
organizational structure you'regoing to be having maybe a title
that says pastor.
Well, oftentimes people thinkof pastor as the main speaking
individual who maybe is upfrontin front of people and that sort
of thing.
Ron Greenwald (03:24):
But there's, an entire staff.
Andy Ragone (03:25):
That oftentimes goes with a church that kind of
grows in its sophistication.
In many cases you'll havemulti-staff sort of church
environments and, if not,mega-staff environments.
Mine was a church that wasn't.
I wasn't the lead pastor, I wasan executive pastor there and
(03:48):
functioning kind of in a similarrole.
Perhaps there's some overlap,of course, when you're just
dealing with organizationalstructure and just dealing with
the payroll side or dealing withthe staffing side or dealing
with the programmatic side.
I mean there's a lot of overlapin terms of how operations are
overseen.
Ron Greenwald (04:11):
So you go and then Crescendo comes to you and
says I really would like you totake this on and you kind of
have the personality to do that.
Andy Ragone (04:20):
Yeah, I mean as far as my role with Crescendo and
how that started, I'm trulyindebted to Charles Schultz.
I've known Charles probablysince 1999, I think, so our
relationship goes way back and Ididn't realize the giant that
he was in the get-planningindustry.
(04:42):
I knew of his company because heand I prior to coming on to
Crescendo, he and I knew eachother and would periodically
meet and connect over coffee andjust touch base on different
things related to the churchenvironment, because he was a
part of our church he and hiswife already and so the
connection was there and itstarted there.
(05:04):
I also was friends with hisson-in-law and daughter, kristen
and Chris Jarda, who are bothattorneys and when I came on
we're both the senior executiveVPs over at Crescendo and so
they were very instrumental inbringing me on board as well.
Ron Greenwald (05:22):
So, Grishendo, and then you and Kimberly start
this company.
How long has Pleiades?
If I'm saying that correctly,You're cringing, so I must not
be no, no, no, no, it's goodYou're good, okay, okay, I'm
empathizing.
Oh, you're empathetic to myinability to say the word.
(05:42):
It's a constellation.
Andy Ragone (05:45):
By the way, it was what it is, that's right, yeah,
real quickly on that side, juston the constellation side.
Right, we'll just kind of touchon that real quick.
So Pleiades is indeed a clusterof stars and you can see about
seven with the naked eye, but ofcourse, once you put a
telescope on it you'll see amuch, much, much larger and much
(06:06):
more intricate tapestry therewithin that star cluster.
But as far as how it workswithin our own perspective is
that it was used for maritimesailors when they would start
their sailing season, becausethey would see the Pleiades
(06:27):
beginning to emerge in theeastern sky at about five in the
morning, four in the morning,and once they did, that was kind
of like the all clear for themto go and start their sailing
season.
The other thing that thePleiades does is when they are
looking at night navigation,which is of course a component
of any sort of maritime sailorfrom years prior to
(06:50):
instrumentation, or compass forthat matter, and they would use
the Pleiades as a primary guide,or at least one of the primary
guides, for latitudinaldirection finding, and so it's
really kind of the idea of thatnavigation tool that was used
for maritime sailors, and so, ofcourse, the navigation tool for
(07:11):
nonprofits, specifically in thearea of gift planning.
Ron Greenwald (07:15):
So let's go right into that transition.
That was beautifully said inthe transition.
What is plan giving and whatshould nonprofits pursue, and
how should nonprofits pursue itproperly?
Andy Ragone (07:27):
Yeah, I mean I would say that gift planning in
its very essence is any sort oftime and thought that goes into
making a gift that is going torequire some sort of plan and
benefit not only theorganization but also benefit
(07:49):
the donor, and I don't know if Ilike that definition just how I
said it, so maybe I'll say itone other way is when people
have assets and they are, maybeit could be like a rental
property, or it could be a stockportfolio, or it could be a
(08:10):
life insurance plan or it couldbe some sort of appreciated
property.
It could be personal property,like a nice ring collection or a
car collection or a businessinterest.
There are so many differentways that we as individuals will
derive income from thesesources and I think that there
(08:32):
are streams of income that maybewe got into it just because we
wanted to start investing rightand we wanted to start thinking
okay, how can I make andgenerate some passive income or
maybe even begin to createfuture dividend income that's
going to come as a stream ofregular income.
The problem comes when you havea business or you have a
(08:52):
property, let's say a rentalhome.
I got into rental homes back inthe early 2000s and discovered
the roller coaster that theywould present, and I discovered
that I am not a big fan of beinga landlord.
That's just not something Ienjoy doing Some people great,
but not for me.
That said is now it's a goodproblem to have, but at the same
(09:17):
time it's a problem becausewhen we bought the property back
in 2001, my wife and I we'renow fast forward to 2024 and we
now have a large capital gainsthat we have to contend with
should we turn and sell theproperty?
So when you start thinking inthe world of planned giving, it
(09:39):
is now joining philanthropy butalso helping on the tax benefit
side.
So one of the things that'sprobably good to point out on
that front is Congress made itpossible and they've done this
through a series of steps thatthey had taken over the last
hundred years, way back, as farback as 1915, to where, instead
(10:05):
of giving to the IRS in the formof taxation I wouldn't say it's
exactly giving, it's not agiving.
Yeah, I would just say,burdened with the reality of
paying taxes, congress has madeit possible for you to bypass
some of your taxation by givingphilanthropically to some
nonprofits or any public charityof 501c3.
(10:28):
So if I can give to my favoritenonprofit and bypass my
taxation towards the IRS, I'm ahappier individual because it's
really benefiting a cause that Ibelieve in rather than giving
to the government.
Ron Greenwald (10:43):
So who's calling your firm is reaching out to
whom?
Who is your perfect client orwho do you want me to refer you
to?
Andy Ragone (10:52):
Yeah, so any sort of nonprofit 501c3 that is
probably at a certain level ofsophistication, and what I mean
by that is in the developmentshop of that particular
nonprofit there are directionsthat a development department
(11:15):
has, there's best practices thata development department does,
and usually when a professionaldevelopment officer arrives on
the scene they usually havemultiple things that they need
to give attention to events theyhave to do maybe an annual
giving program.
(11:35):
They have to do a gala like anevent, but they also have a
number of other things that arefront and center for them,
because many nonprofits board ofdirectors are just saying we
need money in the door to fundour mission.
What happens with gift planning?
Because gift planning gets alittle bit more technical and
(11:56):
involved, it oftentimes doesn'thappen right away and so,
because of that, the convenienceof money in the door is
oftentimes where a lot of ournonprofits are thinking.
The more sophisticated a givingprogram develops into, the more
they begin thinking that well,do you want money in the door
(12:17):
now which comes from a verysmall bucket of disposable
income, from a very few amountof donors who are going to give
anything of size or substance,or do we want to tap into the
wealth which makes up of around97% of all American income,
coming from various forms,whether it be a retirement plan,
stock appreciation or portfolioor whatnot, and can we help
(12:41):
people give from them while alsosolving their tax problem?
So the people that look to cometo us are going to be
organizations that have at leastone professional development
officer who's a frontlinefundraiser, and then they begin
to now move into the reality ofgift planning, which they know
(13:02):
or they've heard that this istough stuff to get into, but
we're going to forge ahead andtry to figure it out, and that's
when they'll call us and do it.
Ron Greenwald (13:10):
You're the strategic planner for long-term
strategic planning.
Andy Ragone (13:15):
We certainly do lay out a plan, we do lay out a
calendar, we do lay out you know, kind of like the direction,
but it's far more.
We actually implement programs.
So we are fractional giftplanning officers that are
working based on four levels ofservice to carry out the program
in its entirety.
(13:35):
And if you want to hire afull-time staff down the road
specifically for gift planning,great, in the meantime you might
want to use us.
Ron Greenwald (13:43):
So give us some examples of what you've
implemented on behalf of anon-profit.
Andy Ragone (13:48):
Sure, I can give you a number of examples in
terms of, you know, of clientsthemselves.
I'll take a homelessconglomerate out of Miami,
florida.
We are national and thishomeless organization, which is
a fairly large organizationthey're kind of, like you know,
the main homeless organizationthat Miami thinks of and they've
(14:10):
done a wonderful job ofintegrating themselves within
the Miami community and there'ssome really cool things that
they've accomplished.
That said is they had onefront-line fundraiser she's a VP
of development and it's justher and she does have a couple
of support staff somebody doingdatabase management, somebody
doing maybe some marketing andthat sort of thing but they had
(14:32):
no idea about gift planning,language gift planning, gift
structuring.
They had no idea how to do that.
They don't know in terms ofwhat best practices look like in
order to bring donors to alevel of interest that they
didn't know of before, and sothey ended up bringing us on
board.
(14:52):
It was our first client andthey took a chance on us, which
is great.
You know, I appreciate the factthat they took a chance on us.
Ron Greenwald (14:59):
Well, you do have the pedigree.
Andy Ragone (15:02):
Well, I mean it helped going in, but they did
take a chance on us nonetheless,and so we will do all of the
marketing on the gift planningside and we work together with
our Markham individuals and wesent out anywhere between and a
lot of people get shocked whenthey hear this number but about
25 to 30 touchpoints per year.
We also then move peoplethrough a survey, through an
(15:25):
estate planning seminar, to alegacy event, and there's this
momentum and traction thatbegins to be developed in that
period of time, usually abouteight months, and ROI begins to
show up at the end of this eightmonth period and then it cycles
through and then we do it againeach and every year.
Ron Greenwald (15:46):
Okay, so you are the marketing arm of a
non-profit, you're the strategicmarketing, you're the go-to guy
.
Andy Ragone (15:56):
But the biggest thing about marketing and this
is very important is there's alot of legal information and
simplifying charitable tax lawto explain to donors what they
can do.
They don't even know theiroptions and if they don't know
what they don't know, thenthey're not going to go where
they don't know If they'readvisors, like a professional
wealth advisor or even an estateplanning attorney many of them
(16:18):
never delve into the area ofphilanthropy.
It's just not their space and soconsequently, they're not going
to advise in several of thegiving vehicles out there if
they're not normally workingwith them.
So consequently, people don'thear about it simply because
there's nobody else telling themabout it.
So that's kind of the marketingcomponent.
(16:39):
But then it goes from thereinto donor activity, where
there's donor relations, wherethere's cultivation, where
there's planting of seeds, wherethere's also providing
solutions for different giftstructures that might work for
their case-by-case scenario.
Ron Greenwald (16:56):
Are you actively engaging with the donor?
Are you behind the scenesplanting those seeds so that the
frontline people are?
Andy Ragone (17:07):
Yes, it just depends on what level you decide
to hire us at.
So if we are doing justmarketing implementation, then
we are the behind the scenesindividuals and we'll work with
the frontline fundraiser to havethose conversations.
If they want to bring us on ata comprehensive level, then that
now allows for us to do jointvisits and to actually structure
(17:30):
gifts on their behalf of theorganization At our highest
level.
We're doing independent visitsas representatives of the
organization itself.
Ron Greenwald (17:41):
So you have the knowledge I mean again for
people that you know.
Again, crescendo is somethingthat only a nonprofit person
would know.
In terms of what you know, interms of this listening audience
, if you're not in the nonprofitworld, crescendo is not
something they're gonna know interms of your pedigree and your
background to be able to bringthat information, that full
service information, to thedonor For sure.
Andy Ragone (18:05):
Yeah, the only way that I could possibly be doing
what it is that I'm doing ishaving that background and gift
planning, as well as you know,the education and certified in
two different certificationlevels and that sort of thing.
Ron Greenwald (18:18):
Yeah, without that I couldn't do what I do so
to go really into the weeds onthis and I hope we don't lose
the audience because they'regonna.
What Like if somebody says youknow, chair of a remainder trust
, the old CRT world, do you runthe numbers?
Like I'm 85, I'm not.
But I bring to you an 85 yearold, you know, client who's got
(18:41):
a rental property worth $2million and she wants to donate
it to her favorite and create alegacy of the charity and get an
annuity on behalf of thatproperty.
Do I come to you to put that?
Pull that all together.
Andy Ragone (18:59):
Yeah.
So I mean, we'll certainly runthe proposals for a CRT or a
charitable gift annuity.
When you're doing just on theside, when you're doing gift
annuities in exchange for realestate, that gets a bit tricky
and there's some things that youhave to be very mindful of and
protective of the nonprofit tomake sure that they're not
getting themselves into a badspot.
(19:19):
But on the charitable remaindertrust, simply because the trust
is in itself its own charitableentity, that that's something
that is a little bit easier tomanage.
And so what we will do, wewon't draft the trust, but we do
outsource to individuals whowill.
And I've discovered, you know,just in the time that we've been
(19:40):
doing this, that there are manywho I would not want to have
draft the trust with it, becausethey just don't have that
experience and even thoughthey're maybe, you know,
phenomenal attorneys, that'sjust still, at the same time,
it's just not their scope ofoperation.
And so there are individualsthat we like to work with and
outsource to in order to now,you know, take up the ball or
(20:03):
the baton and actually draft thetrust and have it appropriately
managed.
Ron Greenwald (20:09):
So let's take the scenario, which I think is
pretty common.
Somebody is listening to thisand goes yeah, I would really
like to Andy to talk to aboutthat, can I?
I'm you know, I'm Miss Jones.
Miss Jones calls you.
Would you go and please talk tomy attorney, my estate planning
(20:30):
attorney, who thinks this is abad idea, or my wealth manager,
who thinks this is a bad idea,and not to say, hey, I'm gonna
try to convince them.
Otherwise, I just want them dothey understand?
Do they understand what's their, their objections are?
Maybe they don't know.
Andy Ragone (20:46):
Yeah, in many cases that's exactly what it is.
Maybe they've heard of it.
A lot of wealth advisors haveheard of CRTs and they've you
know kind of, but they've nevernecessarily worked with one and
so, again, they're just notcomfortable in that particular
space and so, because of thatlevel of discomfort, they don't
know how to advise in theappropriate way.
(21:07):
The trick is, with a lot of ourprofessional advisors, again,
they're very qualified and verygood at what they do.
They're just not in the spaceof philanthropy.
And because they're not in thespace of philanthropy, their
goal for their particular clientbase isn't necessarily
philanthropic in nature.
(21:28):
But what happens if you do havea client that is very
philanthropic in nature andwould like to be able to
understand these types ofsolutions that would otherwise
not be available to them?
You know it should either theadvisor not necessarily provide
that for them, that information.
So, yes, there is a fair amountof education and we'll provide
(21:49):
them with, say, a proposal andand you know we usually when you
start off with the proposal,there's a lot of things you
don't necessarily know about thedonor because they may or may
not necessarily disclose that toyou.
But that said is it can be avery helpful place to start,
especially for a CPA or afinancial advisor, to see how
(22:10):
this now begins to come in thein the, in the frame.
And so that ends up saying ohokay, I get that, that makes
sense, oh, there's value there,and eventually they just go.
That's a really good idea, justtakes a while to get them there
.
Ron Greenwald (22:23):
You know I want to go in a little bit of a
tangent because I've you know,I've been in this Space of what
I do for 15 years of workingwith the state planning
attorneys and wealth managersand the state administration and
I've heard every story fromevery.
You can't even I literally nowhave to when I when the state,
when the attorney says, ron, Iwant you to go change the locks
(22:46):
on the home because I don't wantthe, the children, the
beneficiaries and these, thesechildren are 60, 70 years old
and they all hate one another.
I actually bring a secure.
I have a gentleman who packsheat with me to be when I go to
these houses nowadays Because Idon't know what I'm gonna be
confronted with.
But that's it.
If that's way, different story.
(23:07):
But my question is how many 501C3s are there in the United
States of America?
I don't know if you have thatin.
I mean there are millions Givenyour.
You know you have a 30 year.
Sounds like a 30 year historyin this.
I don't know how many yearhistory in the space of
(23:27):
Crescendo and now what you'redoing, or 20 year history?
Do you see consolidation as atool to Do we need these as many
501 C3s as we have?
I'm just as a Curious question.
Andy Ragone (23:43):
I don't know how to answer that.
I my understanding is thatthere's like about 1.5 million
charities.
So I think that in church worldand I can probably speak to
that a little bit better I wouldsay that we are in a very
interesting Place right nowwithin church world where a lot
(24:04):
of those mainline denominationalchurches that that have been in
existence for maybe you know,120, 150, 200, 400 years and
beyond that, there has been anumber of churches closing doors
and then a number of churchesthat have begin to, kind of by
(24:27):
nature of their programming andby nature of who's the one,
who's the speaking pastor ortheir team of pastors that are
speaking and they're quite goodand and and so they're their
churches grow and grow and grow.
In many cases it does come atthe expense of maybe a midsize
or a smaller church that doeshave to close its doors and it
begins to merge.
(24:47):
Well, I would imagine that alot of nonprofits out there kind
of function similarly.
I can think of a few that we'veeven worked with that has had
leadership change and Because ofthe leadership change that
means, you know, somethingdidn't happen quite right.
Or maybe a retiree, you know aleader resigned or for whatever
(25:08):
reason, they're no longer in theplace of leadership that they
were, and so now the board isTrying to restructure and you
find new leadership and andoftentimes there's just this
point of volatility orinstability that goes along with
the organization and sometimesthat opens up talks to you know,
maybe we do need to join andwhen maybe we do need to merge
(25:30):
with some other organizationsthat are thinking and acting
like us.
Ron Greenwald (25:33):
I mean if somebody, if two nonprofits,
came to you and said, would thatbe something that you could
strategically Look at them andgo, hey, you know what, I think
I could help you Be me, givenyour background and your
expertise and your knowledge,and you as a team with Kimberly
I, I mean I see that as I'm justtalking kind of as a strategic
(25:54):
plan.
Yeah, because again, the, thetransfer of wealth and we can
talk about that till the cowscome home in over the next 20
years, the 30, 40 trilliondollars that's gonna transfer,
we all know I mean not that weall know that, but those in the
industry know what's coming withthe baby boomers.
I just your business model iscertainly ripe and kudos.
Andy Ragone (26:21):
Yeah, I mean, as far as our role, I would say
that we stick to primarily thefundraising, gift planning space
.
That said, kimberly was theExecutive director for the
Orange Catholic Foundation.
Prior to that she was with theArchdiocese of LA for a number
of years and has a 30 yearFundraising effort and of course
we understand that your CEO,your executive director, is
(26:44):
going to be your chief, not onlyvisioncaster but fundraiser as
well.
So of course there is a fairamount of experience that comes
from the both of us to be ableto maybe Possibly navigate that.
But I wouldn't say that'sreally our space of where we are
Intentionally trying to workwith them.
So let's make sure people knowhow to get a hold of you, what's
(27:05):
the best way to reach you, Sure, you just have to know how to
spell it, but it is Pleiades,npa calm, short for nonprofit
advisors, but NPA.
So yes, if you go to Pleiades,npa calm, and maybe I can give
(27:26):
you that link on the show notes,or you can put it on the show
notes for people, and then thatmight be, that might be the
place to put it.
But it's very simple to justtype in and We'll kind of take
it from there.
Ron Greenwald (27:37):
So I know everybody's already.
You know it's watching thisgoing one of the guitars up on
the wall all about.
So we want to adjust that.
And then Also, I am become apickleball fanatic.
So you have to get down here toSan Diego where this is being
recorded so you and I can goplace on pickleball.
But let's talk guitars first.
Andy Ragone (27:58):
Oh my goodness, yes , well, I'm anxious to talk on
both the guitars.
I will say that's like well,andy, do you play?
And the answer is no.
My children did, and both ofthem actually have three
children, and two of them werewere fairly proficient
guitarists.
One was much more of atechnical guitarist.
The other one was, I think, onour way to become the next
(28:21):
Taylor Swift.
You only can imagine yeah,right, and so, yeah, so, anyways
.
So both of them played a lotand and we pretty much had a
fairly musical family and mywife is a harpist and I have a
vocal and Operatic way way backwhen, background that so you're
(28:43):
not either.
Ron Greenwald (28:43):
partridge family have you guys actually gone out
in before?
We have Now anybody under theage of X won't know what I'm
talking about with Google, thepartridge family and that's
right, that's right.
Andy Ragone (28:54):
We did have a little bit of a a partridge
family experience a few times,which was kind of fun.
Ron Greenwald (29:02):
Are you performing now or?
Andy Ragone (29:04):
no, I haven't performed for some time.
Okay, maybe karaoke, and that'sabout it, I don't know, but my
anyway.
So when we were in the processof, you know, giving all of our
kids the boot and and movingthem on to their next stage of
life and All of them are doingwell, and and but they decided
(29:25):
that they weren't going to takeall of their guitars with them,
and so we had to figure out okay, what do we do with them?
And so this is pretty much theproduct of that.
Ron Greenwald (29:33):
Okay, so they, they don't.
They never come off that wall,apparently, or for holidays, for
holidays or any.
Andy Ragone (29:40):
You know it's a good question.
I mean, we have more guitarsthat didn't make it on the wall,
so it's possible that theywould likely get played, but
honestly, I wouldn't want toplay any of these.
Ron Greenwald (29:50):
Well, andy, I can hear the viral moment for you
at the next holiday, the nextgathering, they all get together
, get those guitars off the wall, do a little two-minute YouTube
on it on gift planning.
Come up with a little him or alittle two-minute, put it out
(30:10):
there on YouTube.
You never know.
I mean on reels I guess I don'teven know all the words because
I don't understand all thatstuff.
But reels, I think, is now thething, is, the is the short
version of all that.
So I Don't know, I don't know.
Well, andy, it's been an honorand a privilege, and I also.
Again, we have to come downhere because I know pickleball,
(30:32):
come on my favorite things,pickle you, and I probably you
know what is it?
The mothers from another,whatever that's right.
Right, because pickleball IPAbeer and smoked meat.
Yeah, we have a smoker on ourdeck In the pickleball Beer.
I've actually, covid, made memore of a wine person than a
(30:52):
beer person, but I can go, I can.
Andy Ragone (30:58):
Well, you got some fantastic breweries down in your
neck of the woods.
Ron Greenwald (31:00):
Yes, we do, and actually we're recording this in
vista, california, which hassome amazing breweries right
around us.
So go ahead, summarize in thelast minute that we have here,
summarize who you are all about,you and Kimberly, and who when
you're going with this, becauseit's fascinating, certainly the.
Andy Ragone (31:20):
The quick summary is that we are here to implement
your playing giving program andwe are here to do it at a very
affordable rate in comparison totrying to run it on your own.
There's usually about afive-year onboarding process to
really get familiar with thisparticular space, and so you'll
(31:41):
see the ROI that comes withinabout a year.
Actually wrote a blog just onthat very subject itself, that
playing giving ROI starts abouta year into it and this way
you'll see the momentum and thetraction that you need it or
really in order to secure thelargest gifts You'll ever get
and you'll find that oneparticular gift can show up and
(32:02):
the equivalent of seven gala'sworth of events and far less
effort, just far more precisionin terms of how to approach it.
But you'll find that you willnever look back and you'll never
fundraise the same way again.
I promise you that.
Ron Greenwald (32:17):
Well, Andy, thank you.
I know Kimberly couldn't joinus today, but I want to thank
her too.
I know you guys are a dynamicduo out there in the world of
philanthropy, so I thank you forjoining us today.
This is Ron Greenwald, the RonGreenwald podcast.
Please listen to this podcastand share it.
(32:37):
Share it with those that youknow that have a passion for a
charity, for a 501 C3, to createa legacy.
And I Encourage I can't speakit to it enough to encourage
people to do things why they canenjoy to see the fruits of
their labor.
I understand a bequest, but Ialso understand doing it why you
(33:00):
are Fully aware of your andhave capacity to see the
benefits of what you're doing.
So again, thank you, ronGreenwald, the Ron Greenwald
podcast.
Make it a great day.
Welcome in.
My name is Ron Greenwald.
This is the Ron Greenwaldpodcast.
This podcast is a lightning rodfor informed decision making as
you weave your way through whatwe call life.
Life is going to have a lot oftwist and turns and we kind of
use the term now improv, but wehave guests that are going to
(00:51):
give you tools to maybe reducethat improvisational role and
give you some ideas of how youcan leave a legacy now and then
in the future.
I am honored to have as myguest today Andy Ragone.
Did I say that right, andy?
Andy Ragone (01:12):
That's good enough.
Ron Greenwald (01:13):
No, no, no, no, no.
Ragone Right, yes, ragone,ragone.
Okay, he is the CEO and partnerand co-founder of here's
another one, pleiades.
Pleiades nonprofit advisors LLC.
Andy Ragone (01:31):
We're just here to make things difficult for you,
ron.
Yes, pleiades, that's correct,pleiades.
Ron Greenwald (01:39):
Andy, tell us a little bit about your background
and a little bit about yourself, so we can move and you can
take a journey into what you'redoing today.
Andy Ragone (01:49):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, that can be a fairly longstory, but I'll give you a
short version.
Ron Greenwald (01:53):
Yeah, I'll give you the short version.
Andy Ragone (01:57):
So, yeah, so we started Pleiades.
My business partner, kimberlyJiton, and I we had known each
other for probably about sevenyears prior to.
I worked for a gift planningorganization called Crescendo
and kind of cut my teeth in thegift planning space based on
what I learned there.
So we started Pleiades in lightof the fact that we saw a
(02:23):
specific area that nonprofitsneeded help with and we felt
like we could be able to fitthat particular space well.
Prior to being with Crescendo,I was in pastoral ministry as a
pastor, serving as a pastor forprobably the better part of 30
years.
So at least in that nonprofitspace as well, a little bit
(02:44):
different when you're in thechurch world, but at the end of
the day, there's somesimilarities too.
Ron Greenwald (02:50):
So, Andy, as someone who has, I like to delve
into that a little bit.
How do you go from pastor tocrescendo?
Was that the pastor tocrescendo?
If you don't mind, I have todelve into that.
Andy Ragone (03:07):
Yeah, so as a pastor I mean, like any sort of
organizational structure you'regoing to be having maybe a title
that says pastor.
Well, oftentimes people thinkof pastor as the main speaking
individual who maybe is upfrontin front of people and that sort
of thing.
Ron Greenwald (03:24):
But there's, an entire staff.
Andy Ragone (03:25):
That oftentimes goes with a church that kind of
grows in its sophistication.
In many cases you'll havemulti-staff sort of church
environments and, if not,mega-staff environments.
Mine was a church that wasn't.
I wasn't the lead pastor, I wasan executive pastor there and
(03:48):
functioning kind of in a similarrole.
Perhaps there's some overlap,of course, when you're just
dealing with organizationalstructure and just dealing with
the payroll side or dealing withthe staffing side or dealing
with the programmatic side.
I mean there's a lot of overlapin terms of how operations are
overseen.
Ron Greenwald (04:11):
So you go and then Crescendo comes to you and
says I really would like you totake this on and you kind of
have the personality to do that.
Andy Ragone (04:20):
Yeah, I mean as far as my role with Crescendo and
how that started, I'm trulyindebted to Charles Schultz.
I've known Charles probablysince 1999, I think, so our
relationship goes way back and Ididn't realize the giant that
he was in the get-planningindustry.
(04:42):
I knew of his company because heand I prior to coming on to
Crescendo, he and I knew eachother and would periodically
meet and connect over coffee andjust touch base on different
things related to the churchenvironment, because he was a
part of our church he and hiswife already and so the
connection was there and itstarted there.
(05:04):
I also was friends with hisson-in-law and daughter, kristen
and Chris Jarda, who are bothattorneys and when I came on
we're both the senior executiveVPs over at Crescendo and so
they were very instrumental inbringing me on board as well.
Ron Greenwald (05:22):
So, Grishendo, and then you and Kimberly start
this company.
How long has Pleiades?
If I'm saying that correctly,You're cringing, so I must not
be no, no, no, no, it's goodYou're good, okay, okay, I'm
empathizing.
Oh, you're empathetic to myinability to say the word.
(05:42):
It's a constellation.
Andy Ragone (05:45):
By the way, it was what it is, that's right, yeah,
real quickly on that side, juston the constellation side.
Right, we'll just kind of touchon that real quick.
So Pleiades is indeed a clusterof stars and you can see about
seven with the naked eye, but ofcourse, once you put a
telescope on it you'll see amuch, much, much larger and much
(06:06):
more intricate tapestry therewithin that star cluster.
But as far as how it workswithin our own perspective is
that it was used for maritimesailors when they would start
their sailing season, becausethey would see the Pleiades
(06:27):
beginning to emerge in theeastern sky at about five in the
morning, four in the morning,and once they did, that was kind
of like the all clear for themto go and start their sailing
season.
The other thing that thePleiades does is when they are
looking at night navigation,which is of course a component
of any sort of maritime sailorfrom years prior to
(06:50):
instrumentation, or compass forthat matter, and they would use
the Pleiades as a primary guide,or at least one of the primary
guides, for latitudinaldirection finding, and so it's
really kind of the idea of thatnavigation tool that was used
for maritime sailors, and so, ofcourse, the navigation tool for
(07:11):
nonprofits, specifically in thearea of gift planning.
Ron Greenwald (07:15):
So let's go right into that transition.
That was beautifully said inthe transition.
What is plan giving and whatshould nonprofits pursue, and
how should nonprofits pursue itproperly?
Andy Ragone (07:27):
Yeah, I mean I would say that gift planning in
its very essence is any sort oftime and thought that goes into
making a gift that is going torequire some sort of plan and
benefit not only theorganization but also benefit
(07:49):
the donor, and I don't know if Ilike that definition just how I
said it, so maybe I'll say itone other way is when people
have assets and they are, maybeit could be like a rental
property, or it could be a stockportfolio, or it could be a
(08:10):
life insurance plan or it couldbe some sort of appreciated
property.
It could be personal property,like a nice ring collection or a
car collection or a businessinterest.
There are so many differentways that we as individuals will
derive income from thesesources and I think that there
(08:32):
are streams of income that maybewe got into it just because we
wanted to start investing rightand we wanted to start thinking
okay, how can I make andgenerate some passive income or
maybe even begin to createfuture dividend income that's
going to come as a stream ofregular income.
The problem comes when you havea business or you have a
(08:52):
property, let's say a rentalhome.
I got into rental homes back inthe early 2000s and discovered
the roller coaster that theywould present, and I discovered
that I am not a big fan of beinga landlord.
That's just not something Ienjoy doing Some people great,
but not for me.
That said is now it's a goodproblem to have, but at the same
(09:17):
time it's a problem becausewhen we bought the property back
in 2001, my wife and I we'renow fast forward to 2024 and we
now have a large capital gainsthat we have to contend with
should we turn and sell theproperty?
So when you start thinking inthe world of planned giving, it
(09:39):
is now joining philanthropy butalso helping on the tax benefit
side.
So one of the things that'sprobably good to point out on
that front is Congress made itpossible and they've done this
through a series of steps thatthey had taken over the last
hundred years, way back, as farback as 1915, to where, instead
(10:05):
of giving to the IRS in the formof taxation I wouldn't say it's
exactly giving, it's not agiving.
Yeah, I would just say,burdened with the reality of
paying taxes, congress has madeit possible for you to bypass
some of your taxation by givingphilanthropically to some
nonprofits or any public charityof 501c3.
(10:28):
So if I can give to my favoritenonprofit and bypass my
taxation towards the IRS, I'm ahappier individual because it's
really benefiting a cause that Ibelieve in rather than giving
to the government.
Ron Greenwald (10:43):
So who's calling your firm is reaching out to
whom?
Who is your perfect client orwho do you want me to refer you
to?
Andy Ragone (10:52):
Yeah, so any sort of nonprofit 501c3 that is
probably at a certain level ofsophistication, and what I mean
by that is in the developmentshop of that particular
nonprofit there are directionsthat a development department
(11:15):
has, there's best practices thata development department does,
and usually when a professionaldevelopment officer arrives on
the scene they usually havemultiple things that they need
to give attention to events theyhave to do maybe an annual
giving program.
(11:35):
They have to do a gala like anevent, but they also have a
number of other things that arefront and center for them,
because many nonprofits board ofdirectors are just saying we
need money in the door to fundour mission.
What happens with gift planning?
Because gift planning gets alittle bit more technical and
(11:56):
involved, it oftentimes doesn'thappen right away and so,
because of that, the convenienceof money in the door is
oftentimes where a lot of ournonprofits are thinking.
The more sophisticated a givingprogram develops into, the more
they begin thinking that well,do you want money in the door
(12:17):
now which comes from a verysmall bucket of disposable
income, from a very few amountof donors who are going to give
anything of size or substance,or do we want to tap into the
wealth which makes up of around97% of all American income,
coming from various forms,whether it be a retirement plan,
stock appreciation or portfolioor whatnot, and can we help
(12:41):
people give from them while alsosolving their tax problem?
So the people that look to cometo us are going to be
organizations that have at leastone professional development
officer who's a frontlinefundraiser, and then they begin
to now move into the reality ofgift planning, which they know
(13:02):
or they've heard that this istough stuff to get into, but
we're going to forge ahead andtry to figure it out, and that's
when they'll call us and do it.
Ron Greenwald (13:10):
You're the strategic planner for long-term
strategic planning.
Andy Ragone (13:15):
We certainly do lay out a plan, we do lay out a
calendar, we do lay out you know, kind of like the direction,
but it's far more.
We actually implement programs.
So we are fractional giftplanning officers that are
working based on four levels ofservice to carry out the program
in its entirety.
(13:35):
And if you want to hire afull-time staff down the road
specifically for gift planning,great, in the meantime you might
want to use us.
Ron Greenwald (13:43):
So give us some examples of what you've
implemented on behalf of anon-profit.
Andy Ragone (13:48):
Sure, I can give you a number of examples in
terms of, you know, of clientsthemselves.
I'll take a homelessconglomerate out of Miami,
florida.
We are national and thishomeless organization, which is
a fairly large organizationthey're kind of, like you know,
the main homeless organizationthat Miami thinks of and they've
(14:10):
done a wonderful job ofintegrating themselves within
the Miami community and there'ssome really cool things that
they've accomplished.
That said is they had onefront-line fundraiser she's a VP
of development and it's justher and she does have a couple
of support staff somebody doingdatabase management, somebody
doing maybe some marketing andthat sort of thing but they had
(14:32):
no idea about gift planning,language gift planning, gift
structuring.
They had no idea how to do that.
They don't know in terms ofwhat best practices look like in
order to bring donors to alevel of interest that they
didn't know of before, and sothey ended up bringing us on
board.
(14:52):
It was our first client andthey took a chance on us, which
is great.
You know, I appreciate the factthat they took a chance on us.
Ron Greenwald (14:59):
Well, you do have the pedigree.
Andy Ragone (15:02):
Well, I mean it helped going in, but they did
take a chance on us nonetheless,and so we will do all of the
marketing on the gift planningside and we work together with
our Markham individuals and wesent out anywhere between and a
lot of people get shocked whenthey hear this number but about
25 to 30 touchpoints per year.
We also then move peoplethrough a survey, through an
(15:25):
estate planning seminar, to alegacy event, and there's this
momentum and traction thatbegins to be developed in that
period of time, usually abouteight months, and ROI begins to
show up at the end of this eightmonth period and then it cycles
through and then we do it againeach and every year.
Ron Greenwald (15:46):
Okay, so you are the marketing arm of a
non-profit, you're the strategicmarketing, you're the go-to guy
.
Andy Ragone (15:56):
But the biggest thing about marketing and this
is very important is there's alot of legal information and
simplifying charitable tax lawto explain to donors what they
can do.
They don't even know theiroptions and if they don't know
what they don't know, thenthey're not going to go where
they don't know If they'readvisors, like a professional
wealth advisor or even an estateplanning attorney many of them
(16:18):
never delve into the area ofphilanthropy.
It's just not their space and soconsequently, they're not going
to advise in several of thegiving vehicles out there if
they're not normally workingwith them.
So consequently, people don'thear about it simply because
there's nobody else telling themabout it.
So that's kind of the marketingcomponent.
(16:39):
But then it goes from thereinto donor activity, where
there's donor relations, wherethere's cultivation, where
there's planting of seeds, wherethere's also providing
solutions for different giftstructures that might work for
their case-by-case scenario.
Ron Greenwald (16:56):
Are you actively engaging with the donor?
Are you behind the scenesplanting those seeds so that the
frontline people are?
Andy Ragone (17:07):
Yes, it just depends on what level you decide
to hire us at.
So if we are doing justmarketing implementation, then
we are the behind the scenesindividuals and we'll work with
the frontline fundraiser to havethose conversations.
If they want to bring us on ata comprehensive level, then that
now allows for us to do jointvisits and to actually structure
(17:30):
gifts on their behalf of theorganization At our highest
level.
We're doing independent visitsas representatives of the
organization itself.
Ron Greenwald (17:41):
So you have the knowledge I mean again for
people that you know.
Again, crescendo is somethingthat only a nonprofit person
would know.
In terms of what you know, interms of this listening audience
, if you're not in the nonprofitworld, crescendo is not
something they're gonna know interms of your pedigree and your
background to be able to bringthat information, that full
service information, to thedonor For sure.
Andy Ragone (18:05):
Yeah, the only way that I could possibly be doing
what it is that I'm doing ishaving that background and gift
planning, as well as you know,the education and certified in
two different certificationlevels and that sort of thing.
Ron Greenwald (18:18):
Yeah, without that I couldn't do what I do so
to go really into the weeds onthis and I hope we don't lose
the audience because they'regonna.
What Like if somebody says youknow, chair of a remainder trust
, the old CRT world, do you runthe numbers?
Like I'm 85, I'm not.
But I bring to you an 85 yearold, you know, client who's got
(18:41):
a rental property worth $2million and she wants to donate
it to her favorite and create alegacy of the charity and get an
annuity on behalf of thatproperty.
Do I come to you to put that?
Pull that all together.
Andy Ragone (18:59):
Yeah.
So I mean, we'll certainly runthe proposals for a CRT or a
charitable gift annuity.
When you're doing just on theside, when you're doing gift
annuities in exchange for realestate, that gets a bit tricky
and there's some things that youhave to be very mindful of and
protective of the nonprofit tomake sure that they're not
getting themselves into a badspot.
(19:19):
But on the charitable remaindertrust, simply because the trust
is in itself its own charitableentity, that that's something
that is a little bit easier tomanage.
And so what we will do, wewon't draft the trust, but we do
outsource to individuals whowill.
And I've discovered, you know,just in the time that we've been
(19:40):
doing this, that there are manywho I would not want to have
draft the trust with it, becausethey just don't have that
experience and even thoughthey're maybe, you know,
phenomenal attorneys, that'sjust still, at the same time,
it's just not their scope ofoperation.
And so there are individualsthat we like to work with and
outsource to in order to now,you know, take up the ball or
(20:03):
the baton and actually draft thetrust and have it appropriately
managed.
Ron Greenwald (20:09):
So let's take the scenario, which I think is
pretty common.
Somebody is listening to thisand goes yeah, I would really
like to Andy to talk to aboutthat, can I?
I'm you know, I'm Miss Jones.
Miss Jones calls you.
Would you go and please talk tomy attorney, my estate planning
(20:30):
attorney, who thinks this is abad idea, or my wealth manager,
who thinks this is a bad idea,and not to say, hey, I'm gonna
try to convince them.
Otherwise, I just want them dothey understand?
Do they understand what's their, their objections are?
Maybe they don't know.
Andy Ragone (20:46):
Yeah, in many cases that's exactly what it is.
Maybe they've heard of it.
A lot of wealth advisors haveheard of CRTs and they've you
know kind of, but they've nevernecessarily worked with one and
so, again, they're just notcomfortable in that particular
space and so, because of thatlevel of discomfort, they don't
know how to advise in theappropriate way.
(21:07):
The trick is, with a lot of ourprofessional advisors, again,
they're very qualified and verygood at what they do.
They're just not in the spaceof philanthropy.
And because they're not in thespace of philanthropy, their
goal for their particular clientbase isn't necessarily
philanthropic in nature.
(21:28):
But what happens if you do havea client that is very
philanthropic in nature andwould like to be able to
understand these types ofsolutions that would otherwise
not be available to them?
You know it should either theadvisor not necessarily provide
that for them, that information.
So, yes, there is a fair amountof education and we'll provide
(21:49):
them with, say, a proposal andand you know we usually when you
start off with the proposal,there's a lot of things you
don't necessarily know about thedonor because they may or may
not necessarily disclose that toyou.
But that said is it can be avery helpful place to start,
especially for a CPA or afinancial advisor, to see how
(22:10):
this now begins to come in thein the, in the frame.
And so that ends up saying ohokay, I get that, that makes
sense, oh, there's value there,and eventually they just go.
That's a really good idea, justtakes a while to get them there
.
Ron Greenwald (22:23):
You know I want to go in a little bit of a
tangent because I've you know,I've been in this Space of what
I do for 15 years of workingwith the state planning
attorneys and wealth managersand the state administration and
I've heard every story fromevery.
You can't even I literally nowhave to when I when the state,
when the attorney says, ron, Iwant you to go change the locks
(22:46):
on the home because I don't wantthe, the children, the
beneficiaries and these, thesechildren are 60, 70 years old
and they all hate one another.
I actually bring a secure.
I have a gentleman who packsheat with me to be when I go to
these houses nowadays Because Idon't know what I'm gonna be
confronted with.
But that's it.
If that's way, different story.
(23:07):
But my question is how many 501C3s are there in the United
States of America?
I don't know if you have thatin.
I mean there are millions Givenyour.
You know you have a 30 year.
Sounds like a 30 year historyin this.
I don't know how many yearhistory in the space of
(23:27):
Crescendo and now what you'redoing, or 20 year history?
Do you see consolidation as atool to Do we need these as many
501 C3s as we have?
I'm just as a Curious question.
Andy Ragone (23:43):
I don't know how to answer that.
I my understanding is thatthere's like about 1.5 million
charities.
So I think that in church worldand I can probably speak to
that a little bit better I wouldsay that we are in a very
interesting Place right nowwithin church world where a lot
(24:04):
of those mainline denominationalchurches that that have been in
existence for maybe you know,120, 150, 200, 400 years and
beyond that, there has been anumber of churches closing doors
and then a number of churchesthat have begin to, kind of by
(24:27):
nature of their programming andby nature of who's the one,
who's the speaking pastor ortheir team of pastors that are
speaking and they're quite goodand and and so they're their
churches grow and grow and grow.
In many cases it does come atthe expense of maybe a midsize
or a smaller church that doeshave to close its doors and it
begins to merge.
(24:47):
Well, I would imagine that alot of nonprofits out there kind
of function similarly.
I can think of a few that we'veeven worked with that has had
leadership change and Because ofthe leadership change that
means, you know, somethingdidn't happen quite right.
Or maybe a retiree, you know aleader resigned or for whatever
(25:08):
reason, they're no longer in theplace of leadership that they
were, and so now the board isTrying to restructure and you
find new leadership and andoftentimes there's just this
point of volatility orinstability that goes along with
the organization and sometimesthat opens up talks to you know,
maybe we do need to join andwhen maybe we do need to merge
(25:30):
with some other organizationsthat are thinking and acting
like us.
Ron Greenwald (25:33):
I mean if somebody, if two nonprofits,
came to you and said, would thatbe something that you could
strategically Look at them andgo, hey, you know what, I think
I could help you Be me, givenyour background and your
expertise and your knowledge,and you as a team with Kimberly
I, I mean I see that as I'm justtalking kind of as a strategic
(25:54):
plan.
Yeah, because again, the, thetransfer of wealth and we can
talk about that till the cowscome home in over the next 20
years, the 30, 40 trilliondollars that's gonna transfer,
we all know I mean not that weall know that, but those in the
industry know what's coming withthe baby boomers.
I just your business model iscertainly ripe and kudos.
Andy Ragone (26:21):
Yeah, I mean, as far as our role, I would say
that we stick to primarily thefundraising, gift planning space
.
That said, kimberly was theExecutive director for the
Orange Catholic Foundation.
Prior to that she was with theArchdiocese of LA for a number
of years and has a 30 yearFundraising effort and of course
we understand that your CEO,your executive director, is
(26:44):
going to be your chief, not onlyvisioncaster but fundraiser as
well.
So of course there is a fairamount of experience that comes
from the both of us to be ableto maybe Possibly navigate that.
But I wouldn't say that'sreally our space of where we are
Intentionally trying to workwith them.
So let's make sure people knowhow to get a hold of you, what's
(27:05):
the best way to reach you, Sure, you just have to know how to
spell it, but it is Pleiades,npa calm, short for nonprofit
advisors, but NPA.
So yes, if you go to Pleiades,npa calm, and maybe I can give
(27:26):
you that link on the show notes,or you can put it on the show
notes for people, and then thatmight be, that might be the
place to put it.
But it's very simple to justtype in and We'll kind of take
it from there.
Ron Greenwald (27:37):
So I know everybody's already.
You know it's watching thisgoing one of the guitars up on
the wall all about.
So we want to adjust that.
And then Also, I am become apickleball fanatic.
So you have to get down here toSan Diego where this is being
recorded so you and I can goplace on pickleball.
But let's talk guitars first.
Andy Ragone (27:58):
Oh my goodness, yes , well, I'm anxious to talk on
both the guitars.
I will say that's like well,andy, do you play?
And the answer is no.
My children did, and both ofthem actually have three
children, and two of them werewere fairly proficient
guitarists.
One was much more of atechnical guitarist.
The other one was, I think, onour way to become the next
(28:21):
Taylor Swift.
You only can imagine yeah,right, and so, yeah, so, anyways
.
So both of them played a lotand and we pretty much had a
fairly musical family and mywife is a harpist and I have a
vocal and Operatic way way backwhen, background that so you're
(28:43):
not either.
Ron Greenwald (28:43):
partridge family have you guys actually gone out
in before?
We have Now anybody under theage of X won't know what I'm
talking about with Google, thepartridge family and that's
right, that's right.
Andy Ragone (28:54):
We did have a little bit of a a partridge
family experience a few times,which was kind of fun.
Ron Greenwald (29:02):
Are you performing now or?
Andy Ragone (29:04):
no, I haven't performed for some time.
Okay, maybe karaoke, and that'sabout it, I don't know, but my
anyway.
So when we were in the processof, you know, giving all of our
kids the boot and and movingthem on to their next stage of
life and All of them are doingwell, and and but they decided
(29:25):
that they weren't going to takeall of their guitars with them,
and so we had to figure out okay, what do we do with them?
And so this is pretty much theproduct of that.
Ron Greenwald (29:33):
Okay, so they, they don't.
They never come off that wall,apparently, or for holidays, for
holidays or any.
Andy Ragone (29:40):
You know it's a good question.
I mean, we have more guitarsthat didn't make it on the wall,
so it's possible that theywould likely get played, but
honestly, I wouldn't want toplay any of these.
Ron Greenwald (29:50):
Well, andy, I can hear the viral moment for you
at the next holiday, the nextgathering, they all get together
, get those guitars off the wall, do a little two-minute YouTube
on it on gift planning.
Come up with a little him or alittle two-minute, put it out
(30:10):
there on YouTube.
You never know.
I mean on reels I guess I don'teven know all the words because
I don't understand all thatstuff.
But reels, I think, is now thething, is, the is the short
version of all that.
So I Don't know, I don't know.
Well, andy, it's been an honorand a privilege, and I also.
Again, we have to come downhere because I know pickleball,
(30:32):
come on my favorite things,pickle you, and I probably you
know what is it?
The mothers from another,whatever that's right.
Right, because pickleball IPAbeer and smoked meat.
Yeah, we have a smoker on ourdeck In the pickleball Beer.
I've actually, covid, made memore of a wine person than a
(30:52):
beer person, but I can go, I can.
Andy Ragone (30:58):
Well, you got some fantastic breweries down in your
neck of the woods.
Ron Greenwald (31:00):
Yes, we do, and actually we're recording this in
vista, california, which hassome amazing breweries right
around us.
So go ahead, summarize in thelast minute that we have here,
summarize who you are all about,you and Kimberly, and who when
you're going with this, becauseit's fascinating, certainly the.
Andy Ragone (31:20):
The quick summary is that we are here to implement
your playing giving program andwe are here to do it at a very
affordable rate in comparison totrying to run it on your own.
There's usually about afive-year onboarding process to
really get familiar with thisparticular space, and so you'll
(31:41):
see the ROI that comes withinabout a year.
Actually wrote a blog just onthat very subject itself, that
playing giving ROI starts abouta year into it and this way
you'll see the momentum and thetraction that you need it or
really in order to secure thelargest gifts You'll ever get
and you'll find that oneparticular gift can show up and
(32:02):
the equivalent of seven gala'sworth of events and far less
effort, just far more precisionin terms of how to approach it.
But you'll find that you willnever look back and you'll never
fundraise the same way again.
I promise you that.
Ron Greenwald (32:17):
Well, Andy, thank you.
I know Kimberly couldn't joinus today, but I want to thank
her too.
I know you guys are a dynamicduo out there in the world of
philanthropy, so I thank you forjoining us today.
This is Ron Greenwald, the RonGreenwald podcast.
Please listen to this podcastand share it.
(32:37):
Share it with those that youknow that have a passion for a
charity, for a 501 C3, to createa legacy.
And I Encourage I can't speakit to it enough to encourage
people to do things why they canenjoy to see the fruits of
their labor.
I understand a bequest, but Ialso understand doing it why you
(33:00):
are Fully aware of your andhave capacity to see the
benefits of what you're doing.
So again, thank you, ronGreenwald, the Ron Greenwald
podcast.
Make it a great day.
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