April 7, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, Jenn has a conversation with one of the educators who was featured prominently in Harry and Rosemary Wong's latest book, THE New Teacher Induction Book: How to Recruit, Train, and Retain New Teachers. Tara Link is a leader who started an induction program 18 years ago in Moberly, Missouri. She joined Jenn to talk about Rosemary and Harry Wong's latest book, and she had so many useful tips to share.
Unfortunately, while we are losing a number of our new and newer teachers, we are also not doing as good of a job of supporting our new teachers as well. About 50% of all new teachers receive no induction at all.
Tara shared some of the problems our new teachers face. Sometimes they don't receive anything more than a welcome and then the rest of their new teacher support is left up to chance.
They also struggle with a whole new generation of classroom management issues that may have looked different in the past. Plus, newer teachers are increasingly coming through alternative certification routes so they may not have had enough training.
Tara really emphasized the importance of DIFFERENTIATING the support we provide to new teachers and being extremely CLEAR.
We discussed THREE KEY COMPONENTS of an effective new teacher support system that the Wongs outlined in their book:
1. COLLABORATION
New teachers need to connect with a wide range of the people they plan to work with and need to feel they are part of something bigger than themselves. This connects to purpose and our Gen-Z teachers are particularly feeling the need to connect to their purpose.
2. PD TAILORED TO THE NEEDS OF NEW TEACHERS
We need to provide new teachers with PD on the basics -- classroom management, lesson design -- and not just jump into training them on the latest fad. As leaders we also need to continually model for new teachers. Be the model of what you want them to be.
3. A COMPREHENSIVE, MULTI-YEAR APPROACH
We need to do much more with our new teachers than have them come a day or two before the rest of the staff. Tara developed a model program S.H.I.N.E. (Supporting, Helping, and Inspiring New Educators) that lasts two full years. She shares some successful elements of her program but encourages you to ask your experienced teachers what was helpful in supporting them and look around at your own resources to see how you can use them to support new teachers.
Where to start? Tara recommends just choosing ONE system of support. Choose something you are already doing well and plus-one it, that is, add to what you're already doing well.
RESOURCES
• THE New Teacher Induction Book: How to Recruit, Train, and Retain New Teachers by Harry and Rosemary Wong (and Jenn's summary for The Main Idea is out in April)
• Tara Link's latest book, Teacher Induction that Works: A Lasting Impact from Day One.
As always, send your comments, questions, and show ideas to mike@schoolleadershipshow.com. Consider rating the podcast in iTunes and leaving a comment. And please pass the show along to your colleagues. Additionally, if you have other non-education books with implications for school leaders, send those suggestions our way, too. And finally, If you or someone you know would like to sponsor the show, send Mike an email at mike@schoolleadershipshow.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenn David-Lang (00:05):
Hello and welcome to The School Leadership Show.
We do not have Mike Doughty here today.
It's just me, Doughty David Lang, buthe will be back next time, I promise.
Um, today we're gonna talk about Harry Kayand Rosemary T. Wong's most recent book,
"The New Teacher Induction Book (00:21):
How to Recruit, Train, and Retain New Teachers".
Published just in 2024.
It's the book I'm summarizingfor the main idea this month.
Uh, Harry and RosemaryWong need no introduction.
They are educators who havededicated their lives to the
development and wellbeing ofteachers, in particular new teachers.
(00:43):
I first heard about them when I cameacross their classic book on classroom
management, the first days of school,and I did summarize that in the
first year of the main idea in 2007.
I'm sure just about every educator Iknow has, you know, read this book.
It has sold millions of copies.
On a more personal note, I got toknow both of them when I met them
(01:04):
in person and they hired me to writesome PD ideas for one of their books.
And not only are they outstandingleaders and educators, they are just.
Gracious, kind, thoughtful educatorsand um, and people, and they
truly serve as role models of thebest of what this field can be.
Uh, unfortunately we lost Harrylast year and he is sorely miss.
(01:26):
Luckily, I'm honored to be heretoday to talk about the Wong's most
recent book with an educator who isfeatured prominently in the book.
Tara Link.
Um, Tara Link developed andshe's the coordinator of a
new teacher induction program.
Called Shine, which is anacronym I love acronym.
She'll explain that for you.
And she developed it for theMoberly School District in Missouri.
(01:48):
She also recently published her ownbook on the topic of teacher induction.
We'll get to that too.
So congrats on that, Tara.
And uh, yeah, I deeplyappreciating the time that you're
taking to speak with me today.
So welcome to the show.
Tara Link (02:01):
Thank you, Jenn.
I'm very happy to be here and veryhappy to talk about both books.
Jenn David-Lang (02:05):
Good.
Great.
Well, we got a lot to talk about.
So why don't we dive in.
Um, there seem to be a lot of articlesand books right now out about teacher
induction and supporting new teachers.
Why, why is this such an.
Important topic right now and youknow, why did you write your book now?
Sure.
Tara Link (02:24):
Well, as, um, anybody who's in education knows we are in a time period
where getting teachers can be a challenge.
So recruiting them and then retainingthem can also be a challenge for maybe
many different reasons than perhapsthey were even five or six years ago.
(02:44):
And so.
There was certainly a need to reallystart to capture what are the pieces
that can impact not only a district,but just the profession in general
as far as how we can help retain,and then also definitely recruit.
Jenn David-Lang (03:02):
Hmm.
So those two go hand in hand, right?
Yeah.
As we're having more troublerecruiting new teachers into the
profession, we wanna hold on to, um,the best ones as much as possible.
So you're seeing both a challengein terms of recruiting as well as
a challenge with teachers leaving.
You're seeing both ofthose at the same time.
Tara Link (03:21):
Absolutely.
I think it's something too that's maybenot even unique to just our state, but
definitely it's a, it's a nationwidechallenge that we're experiencing.
Just lots of dialogue around, you know,what does it mean to be a teacher?
Of course, the age.
Old question of teacher salary and,um, that being attractive, um, you
(03:45):
know, just a lot of different layersI think that we're having to explore.
It's not just one, one thing or,or one issue, but, but a multi.
Player approach to, toreally looking at that.
Jenn David-Lang (03:57):
Yeah, it's challenging.
I, I read in a recent article that11% on average of your first year
teachers are gonna leave by the endof the first year, and that 20 to 40%
leave within the first five years.
So it does seem key to focus on those.
Those newest teachers while Sure, wehave teachers who are retiring, maybe
retiring earlier than they would've afew years ago, but I think it's that, you
(04:20):
know, that beginning, uh, time period,and a statistic that I read in, um,
the Wong's book was that about 50% ofteachers received no induction at all.
And, uh, it is, it is veryhard to be a new teacher.
Um, of course we were both new teachers atsome point, but, you know, for the sake of
(04:41):
asking on a podcast, what are you seeing?
What is so hard about being a new teacher?
And is it harder today than, you know,than when I started Or you started?
What, what's so hard about it?
Tara Link (04:51):
Sure.
Well, and to your pointabout there being a lack of.
Opportunities for induction programs.
I think, you know, everybodyhas a welcome committee.
We, we always have a way that we welcometeachers to school, but we have to think
about, do we just leave that welcome upto chance or do we actually build a system
that is comprehensive and extensive andsustained to, to support our teachers?
(05:16):
And to your point of, you know, what,what are the challenges of coming in?
I think the challenge that everyone,no matter what generation you're in,
experiences, just classroom managementin general, that is certainly a component
that is critically important forgetting started and, and staying in.
So just managing those pieces.
(05:38):
But on top of that, I think thatthere's sometimes a gap between
what teachers think teachingis going to be like and what.
It really is.
And so helping fill that gap with supportand resources to navigate those times,
I think can be really challenging.
(05:59):
Another situation that I just thinkwithin the last few years has become.
A new challenge maybe, is that we'regetting a lot of new teachers that
are coming in different routes.
So whereas maybe we would'vetraditionally had new teachers that
went through a college preparatoryprogram, now the face of coming into
(06:22):
education looks a little bit different.
We may have people coming in thatwere, you know, have degrees in
other fields that aren't education.
Um, they may be.
Are working on their degree while they'reteaching, or we've even had examples of
people who are in the school maybe ina role different than being a classroom
(06:44):
teacher, such as being a paraprofessionalwho are transitioning into the role of
suddenly becoming the teacher of record.
And so navigating all of thosedifferent needs that come with the.
Different avenues for which we havepeople coming to us, certainly is
a challenge for them as well asus on the, on the induction side.
(07:06):
It's helpful to,
Jenn David-Lang (07:06):
you know, it's been a while right?
Since I've been a first year teacher.
I don't know what you, butprobably a while, so it's
helpful to be reminded of these.
Uh, I hadn't thought about someof these in a little while.
Uh, I mean, first of all, that gapbetween what teachers think, right?
From, I don't know, based on either whatthey saw on TV or every teacher has been
a student I. My husband always says, we'rein New York City, where I think 50% of
(07:28):
all new restaurants close within the firstyear, so higher than first year teachers.
And he always says, oh, you know,everyone's been a customer in a
restaurant, so they think theycan run a restaurant, right?
So we've all been students in theclassroom, but we didn't realize
all the tricks, strategies, tools,preparation that went into the behind
the scenes work of our favorite teacher.
(07:49):
We just thought they were really,you know, warmhearted people.
So I hadn't thought about that gap.
And that's really, that'sreally interesting.
Yeah.
I, um, recently came across an articleabout the helpful mind frames for, for,
for new teachers versus the mind framesthey might have, and then this idea of
this sort of alternative certification,you know, as we have a harder and harder
(08:10):
time holding onto our teachers, right.
We wanna open up more avenues right.
To, to let more in, but then we're notrealizing that may come with a need.
For more training and moresupport while doing that, right?
You can't change one part of theformula without changing the other part.
And then you do mentionclassroom management.
And I do hear a lot, I think everygeneration hears, oh, kids these
(08:33):
days, they're so much worse, right?
Oh, now they curse at you.
Oh, now they pull out their cell phones.
Do you think classroom management is worsein 2025 than it was 5, 10, 20 years ago?
That is a great
Tara Link (08:45):
question.
I do think that the challengesmaybe have grown not in differences
with the number of, um, issues.
I think probably the number of issuesthat we're having to deal with maybe
has, has increased a little bit.
(09:05):
Again, every, I think generationwe're navigating different avenues
of challenges, whether it be TVwhen, you know, it was the eighties.
Our children were in front of television,and so that was a worry and you know,
showing movies in class and now we'renavigating to a different form of
(09:26):
technology and figuring out what theboundaries are and how to face those
challenges that come with, you know,different, just different issues I think
that come with the different generations.
I know.
Along with that, I think wehave a lot more knowledge.
Um, in, in thinking about classroommanagement, behavior management, you
(09:48):
know, we're looking at now executivefunctioning skills and understanding
that where 10 years ago it might nothave been as much of a conversation.
So we have more information and weare more informed at the same time.
Just figuring out how to placeall of those in ways to help
us meet the needs of our kids.
I do think creates a challengefor our time right now.
(10:09):
That's a good
Jenn David-Lang (10:09):
point.
Um, so I'd love to ask, you know, and I,and I phrase this in the negative, like,
why is it so hard to retain teachers?
You know, I, I like to thinkabout what we're doing wrong.
Not because I want to blame all of usin leadership, but I think sometimes
that's the clear way of understanding,you know, what we're not doing.
Like you, you know, you said, um.
Often we're leaving it up to chance,you know, so what I was teaching
(10:33):
a lot was left up to chance.
And so if you had, you know,go-getter leaders or teachers, right?
They created amazingschools and classrooms.
So what is it about inductionthat we may be getting wrong?
Like why, why is it so hard to retain?
Teachers?
Tara Link (10:49):
Well, if I had the exact answer to that, I feel like I would be
able to, um, you know, really, reallybe making changes right away tomorrow.
Okay.
Um, but I do have sometheories about things that are
important for us to really, I.
Think about in the process of, of buildingthose systems, whether they, no matter
(11:10):
what size district that you're with,um, what we know is that generationally,
again, I think having to recognizethat the differences of different
generations change and adapting to that.
We talk a lot aboutdifferentiation in the classroom,
Jenn David-Lang (11:30):
and
Tara Link (11:31):
so we really have to recognize what that.
Differentiation piece looks like,I think for our teachers as well.
Um, one of the things I know that in thebook, the teacher induction book by the
Wongs, that I. I think is really powerfulis the power of the Stay interview.
(11:52):
That was one of the chapters, Ithink that was chapter seven, and
being really willing to tap intowho you have there right now.
Find out why they are staying and makingsure that you continue to build upon that.
I think that's a a great idea.
That we need to make sure thatwe're capturing, um, we know that.
Jenn David-Lang (12:17):
Can I pause you there?
Can I pause you there?
Just 'cause some people might not know.
So the stay interview is differentfrom an an exit interview.
I always say an exit interviewis like an autopsy, right?
They're already gone.
Our teachers are gone.
Or your employees where, um,but the stay interview you do.
Early enough with the teachers,you want to stay to find out how
they're thriving or not and howyou could better support them.
(12:40):
And I've been talking about thestay interview for, for years, and I
usually suggest that leaders do it,you know, around February, March.
But I, but in this book, whatI thought was brilliant is that
the Wong say for new teachers.
Do it even earlier, likeall like October, November.
You know, you have a sense there'sno new teacher who is fully formed by
(13:01):
October, November, but you have a senseof the people who are new teachers,
yet they're, they're go-getters.
They're willing to learn,they're willing to take feedback.
They're, they're working hard.
You have a sense of who you want to stay.
If 11% of our first year teachers areleaving by the end of the year, they've
probably made that decision by Februaryor March, and that's a long time to go.
(13:21):
So to start in October, November, meetone-on-one with your first year teachers
to say, you know, you're doing great.
I'd like you to stay.
You don't have it all figured out yet.
You know, that's okay.
I don't have it all figured out yet.
Um, you know, what could Ido to better support you?
But that timeline that they put inthe book, I thought was brilliant.
Tara Link (13:38):
It is, and I can tell you firsthand from being the
boots on the ground person forour district, it is critical.
And that's where I have the joy ofworking directly with our beginning
teachers day in and day out.
And so being able to tap into thosemoments of finding out what is going well
and what are the challenges, and reallyusing a lot of follow up opportunities in
(14:03):
the form of anytime we do a PD session.
We always ask for feedback.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, checking in with ourmentors as well who are supporting
these teachers and finding out whatare they recognizing are important.
To the new teacher as well as tothe district to make sure that
(14:23):
we're, we're keeping those in checkand, and just constant check-ins.
And that is something that in readinginformation and literature and research
about different generations is maybethe difference between like our.
Generation, um, what are we XI think,and, and millennials and maybe what
would be considerate, consideredGeneration Z now is a lot of our
(14:48):
leaders, including myself, is in onegeneration where we were kind of, um.
During this time of professionalism,just used to a couple of
visits into the classroom.
Maybe we get feedback once or twice ayear and then we just go on our way.
Yeah, and that's kind ofhow the system was set up.
And we perhaps have a generation of.
(15:12):
Teachers coming in that really value thatconstant feedback and they like to have
somebody in their room or give, you know,helping them out and, and giving them
tips and tricks and ideas and strategies.
And so that's important to them.
And so we need to make sure.
That if we're doing that, youknow, we can find the time.
(15:33):
So that's another thing.
As as leaders, we have lotsof hats that we're wearing.
And so really recognizing what isimportant to our teachers in the building.
And so that constantfeedback is one of them.
Um.
Another
Jenn David-Lang (15:46):
differentiation piece that you're mentioning is key, sort of
the sort of two levels of differentiation.
First, differentiating generations, right?
So this is the newest youngest teachersof Gen Z may have different needs
than what we knew from the past.
And then individual differentiationbased on what you hear in
the in the stay interviews.
So that,
Tara Link (16:03):
right, so it's formative assessment at the, at the teacher
level versus the, the summative.
So that, that is super important.
We also know that career developmentis important for our new teachers, and
so really providing kind of a clearpathway and mapping out options for them
(16:24):
ahead of time instead of maybe leavingit up to them to figure it out and.
Really providing intentional optionsfor them to stay engaged and ways for
them to grow themselves and and growin leadership, I think is something
that maybe hasn't always been quiteas transparent in the profession
that we're recognizing is important.
(16:46):
Um,
Jenn David-Lang (16:47):
and I love the stay interview question for
new teachers saying, where doyou see yourself in five years?
Right, right.
You're acknowledging, you know,
Tara Link (16:53):
you're a new teacher, but I have big hopes for you.
You know, and, yeah.
Yeah.
And then, you know, I know somethingthat's really important for me in
working with beginning teachers isjust the importance of clarity and
whether it be clarity for them inthe classroom with their students
regarding learning, but then also.
(17:14):
Us making sure that we're providingthe clarity that they need in
order to understand, um, culture.
I call this the four Cs, so it's.
Clarity about culture and compliance andclarification about their job, as well
as providing clarity about ways thatthey can connect with people and making
(17:36):
sure both sides are clear about that.
Um, you know, it's not one person'sjob really to support our new teachers.
We want it to be everybody's.
Takes a village.
It takes a village.
Right, right.
That's actually another chapterin our, our book is Oh, really?
It really is.
Yeah.
And, um, how we can just help eachother lead from where they are, and
(17:59):
it become a culture of what we do.
And whether, you know, we're, we'rethinking about our school custodian
to our, um, food services people,to our technology, um, support
people to our secretaries when,when teachers come into school.
But how can we really make this a cultureof supporting teachers and, and what
(18:21):
are some strategies for doing that?
So, you know, there's lots, again, lotsof layers I think about how we keep them.
Yeah.
Um, but, but those are some thatreally tend to rise to the top.
That's
Jenn David-Lang (18:32):
great.
Um, I wanna, um, I wanna divespecifically into the Wong's book,
the new teacher induction book.
And I really sort of pulled outthree main themes, and maybe that's
helpful for people to think aboutthat they found from, you know,
from research and experience thatfor a new teacher induction and
support program, it's helpful.
(18:53):
To build in, um, collaboration,new teachers, collaborating with
each other and, um, others, um,professional development that is, you
know, tailored to them in a particularkind of professional development.
They talk about PD that doesn'twork, which I wanna talk about,
and then they talk about having acomprehensive, multi-year approach.
So like what you said, it's not justthe welcome and then leave it up.
(19:15):
To chance it's far more comprehensive.
So I thought maybe if we could talkfor a few minutes about each of those,
starting with the collaboration piece.
Why is collaboration so importantfor new teachers and what kind of
collaboration do you believe they need?
Tara Link (19:31):
The collaboration helps them feel a part of the culture.
And helps them be, not an outsider,but a part of building what we want
to use to reach our mission and thinkit's collaboration on a lot of levels.
It can be collaboration between thesupport systems, whether that be.
(19:52):
The coach, if there's a, you know,an instructional coach there, the
support that goes with having amentor, the support from leadership
really develops that importance of,um, collaboration and just helping
them feel a sense of belonging.
Teamwork is important and knowingthat you're a part of something
(20:13):
bigger than yourself, kind of havingthat North star to be a part of, I
think is, is really powerful for.
Teachers to, you know, feel the culture,know it's evident, um, know that
it's focused and orderly essentially,that we've planned for them and we've
planned for our culture and we'veplanned for collaboration that helps
(20:35):
them to build that capacity as well.
And so when we create thoseopportunities and we intentionally.
Plan for them.
Then we are developing, I thinkthose systems that they talk
about for re for retaining.
I love how in the book they talk about howthis is done literally around the world.
Jenn David-Lang (20:56):
Yeah.
Tara Link (20:56):
That, that collaboration piece in Finland and Japan and
Singapore, and really providing a globalperspective of, of what that looks
like and why it's important and, um,how it really contributes to, at the
ultimate goal, educating our students.
Jenn David-Lang (21:15):
I love that.
You know, you tie the teamwork.
To having a sense of somethingbigger than yourself almost.
It, it helps to inductthem into the, the purpose.
And, uh, in recent Gallup poll, I sawthat nine out of 10 Gen Zers found
that a sense of purpose, having asense of purpose at work is essential.
For, you know, connect obviouslylongevity, connecting them
(21:38):
to their, to their work.
And so it sounds like that sortof kills two birds with one stone.
Right?
It sort of induct them and it also bringsthem into the purpose of the school.
Um, and I love in the book that,you know, they, they give some
really concrete suggestions like.
Some collaboration with veteran teacherswhere veteran teachers can bring the
new teachers through a simulated firstday, including like show, bringing the
(21:58):
teachers, the new teachers to theirrooms and saying, this is what it
looks like when it's organized and setup, and that kind of collaboration.
And then the other thing, I don'tthink I got this from this book,
but, um, this idea of sociallyinducting our new teachers, that we
professionally induct them, right?
He's, here's your password,here's your curriculum.
(22:19):
Right?
All of this stuff.
But socially inducting them, connectingthem to the fourth grade team,
connecting them to the veteran teachers,connecting them to, you know, the,
uh, the administrators are you as theleader going in at the end of day one
and checking in with your every first.
Your teacher, how are you doing?
At the end of the first week?
At the end of the second week.
(22:39):
So just think of the, the socialinduction to me is connected to the
collaboration that they need to succeed.
Tara Link (22:45):
And I would even suggest that that begins from the
moment they sign their contract.
Jenn David-Lang (22:50):
Yes.
Tara Link (22:51):
Is really finding those opportunities to provide those
connections from the very beginning,whether it be at the district level and
having the superintendent reach out.
To connect or the buildingprincipal to connect or
encouraging the mentors to connect.
(23:12):
Um, that can happen right away.
It may not happen in person until theyshow up for orientation, depending on
location and, and different situations.
But I do think you're right that thatsocial connection piece really almost has
to happen before we can do anything else.
It's very similar.
It goes right back to what we.
Know about students inthe classroom, right?
(23:34):
Is that those connections, um, haveto start before really any of the
learning pieces are going to take hold.
And so I think it's verysimilar to that in the class
with our new teachers as well.
Um, helping those connections kindof lead into then those next steps.
Jenn David-Lang (23:52):
Yeah, I mean, connect humans have, um, a
universal need to connect.
And when that need is met,then you can feel safe.
And so we want our teacher, newteachers to feel safe, right?
Because arguably, they are the adultsin the building who feel the least safe.
They're starting a new job.
And so that leads to the second component.
So the wgs talk about how collaborationis key for an effective onboarding system.
(24:16):
And then the second one is,is PD professional learning.
Which I believe safety is necessaryfor teachers to truly learn.
So why is this component, why is PD soimportant for the new teacher and, you
know, what kind of PD do they need?
Tara Link (24:31):
Right?
So thinking about where they are andwhere we want them to go and what,
um, that trajectory might look like isreally what embodies the, the PD process.
I. Really in my whole process of creatingour new teacher induction program with
so much support from all of the Longsbooks, um, is really thinking about
(24:54):
what do we want for our teachers todo in the classroom with students, and
really transferring that to what weneed to do with our teachers as well.
So it's really important thatwe be what we want to see.
Hmm.
And so providing not only the PDopportunities, but being the model day
(25:18):
in and day out as leaders in making surethat we're very clear about what those.
Learning pieces are that are goingto be most important for our grade
level, for our building, and thenalso at the, at the district level.
So providing not only the PD and clarityaround why we're doing it, I think is
(25:41):
important, but then also providing thosefollow up opportunities to make sure that
they have the support that they need.
In the classroom to implement thatprofessional development and, and those
learning opportunities, if we just do aone and done and then send them back or on
their way to, to do whatever we, you know,we, we provide for them, um, our chances
(26:06):
of it actually happening greatly reduce.
Every day thereafter.
But if we do have a systematic programin place through induction where we can
provide those follow up opportunitiesand very intentional moments of,
of learning and application, then.
The opportunity for being moresuccessful at it is definitely greater.
(26:29):
And then again, it's also going tobe best for our students, right?
So at the end of the day, it'sall about our students learning.
And again, our, our teachers feelsupported and feel like they have
the tools and the knowledge and theinformation and the understandings
that they need to be successful.
Why would you wanna leave?
Jenn David-Lang (26:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I think, um, you know, forany PD you don't want it to be.
You know, one and done.
Um, but then particularly for firstyear teacher, the leaving the follow up.
To chance as opposed to actually followingup, um, is not going to ensure that they
have internalized the learning and alsoyou can't help them with the tweaking
(27:09):
and massaging so that they get it.
Right.
And, and you know, you've mentionedclarity several times and I think
that is probably a big part of.
Why new teachers struggle andleave is our, our lack of clarity.
You know, if 90% of your teachers werethere last year and you, you know,
they all, they're very clear on theexpectations and they know the two
year goal, you know, it's hard togo back and remember, oh, I've gotta
(27:31):
start all that, you know, from scratch.
And I might have to do a separate sessionwith just the new teachers if I don't
want, you know, for differentiation.
So, um, I think thatclarity is very important.
The other thing the Wongs mentionis that often the PD that we give
to our new teachers is, you know,what's the shiny new initiative?
You know, oh, we have a newreading curriculum, so let's
(27:53):
focus all of our learning on that.
But really that we should be goingback to basics and, you know, the book
obviously, um, their classic book,the first days of school, really back
to like procedures and all of that.
So even if they did that in, um.
In their pre-service or whatever program.
Um, first of all, one, like you'resaying, there are many alternative routes
(28:15):
that they're coming from, and learningstuff in school is very different
from implementing it on the ground.
And so to really make sure that theprofessional learning for your new
teachers, it focuses around just thereal basics of, you know, classroom
management, lesson planning, studentengagement, just those kinds of things.
(28:35):
I thought that was a really importantdistinction that they make in the book.
Tara Link (28:39):
As a person who's been in education for 29 years, I read through
literally the whole page that theyhave of fads in, in education, um,
and different focuses and could justgo through the list to go Yes, yes.
Check, check, check, and, and reallywhen it's all on one page of all the
(29:01):
different, as they call them, fads, um.
It really is quite overwhelming.
Um, it, it makes you stop and think
Jenn David-Lang (29:09):
Yes,
Tara Link (29:10):
what is, what is currently that, and where are we in that process?
Jenn David-Lang (29:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think their finalcomponent that, you know, um.
An induction or support system shouldbe comprehensive and multi-year.
I think too many of us have beenguilty of, you know, bringing in
the new teachers two days early and,you know, and that's kind of it.
Um, and not for any, you know,bad reasons, but just it's a
(29:35):
busy life in a school that takessome planning and some thinking.
You know?
And this is Tara, where youare, you are highlighted.
You started.
This comprehensive multiyear approachapproach in Missouri called Shine.
So maybe could you tell us.
What's the acronym?
I love your acronym, what it standsfor, and tell us a little bit
about this comprehensive multi-yearapproach to teacher induction.
(29:58):
Sure.
Tara Link (29:59):
SHINE stands for supporting, helping and inspiring new
educators, and we started in 2008.
Really as an experiment.
It was a trial.
It was going to be one year of, youknow, this sounded like a great idea.
Kind of captured some pieces from,uh, another district that was much
(30:20):
larger than us, and 17 years later,here we are with this comprehensive
systematic program that as we.
Did the research and really looked atall the pieces that were important for
our beginning teachers and, and developedthat over time to the point where it just
(30:43):
became a part of our district culture.
But the important pieces of it are thatit was systematic and very intentional.
And grown and developedthroughout the years.
So when we were getting started,how I got connected with the WS was
that I was given the opportunity to.
Start this process and Iwas looking at research.
(31:06):
I was looking at other programs throughoutthe United States and happened to find the
first new teacher induction book availableand reached out to the Wongs who were so
gracious to respond and started askingquestions and just looked at programs
throughout the United States and found.
The pieces that I thought fit forus as well as develop the ones
(31:30):
that we discovered were needed.
And through that building process, wereally developed a program that was
widespread and just became a part of.
Who we are and what we do, so thatthe clarifying pieces, um, became
just embedded in, in our culture.
(31:52):
And so that was, that's theexciting part because now.
Our teachers that used to be apart of our Shine program have
gone on to become our mentors.
And so by them experiencing the positivepieces of being supported, then that just
continues to grow and and pass along.
(32:14):
And then also just the fact thatour district, our school board, our
superintendents, were able to provide.
An additional resource in myself andinstructional coaches to provide that
day by day support and that opportunityto go in when you know, when you're a
mentor and you have your own classroom,it's not as easy to get in to supporting
(32:39):
your new teacher in real time.
And so providing that opportunityas well as professional development
and creating those social.
Connections and, and just makingit a comprehensive piece is
really what our program developedinto and, and what it is today.
And I'll have you share
Jenn David-Lang (32:58):
concretely some of those pieces.
So imagine, um, principals andsuperintendents are listening to
this and they think that's greatthat your district started that.
I'm the principal, I'm the superintendent.
I don't have time for this.
So my question is, when theytapped you on the shoulder, were
you a teacher, a teacher leader,a coach, a assistant principal?
Who were you at that point?
And two.
(33:19):
Okay, so I don't have time for this,and then two, I don't have money.
So can you tell me, you know, I.
When you led this, what role wereyou in and can you tell us what
are some of the components that youthink are replicable that, you know,
people listening could, could do intheir districts or their schools?
Tara Link (33:34):
Yes, because this is actually something that I present at
conferences about, um, throughout thestate to be able to share that because
not everybody has a, has a personsuch as my role to be able to do that.
Yeah.
Um, so I started, I was a.Teacher, teacher, I had experience
at both the middle schoollevel and the elementary level.
And so that's how I kind of cameinto the opportunity to do that.
(33:58):
Having a little bit of experiencein both levels, provided the
ability to do it K through 12.
So there were some days, um, in the firstseveral years, I would say probably the
first 10 years of the program, I mightbe in a kindergarten classroom one day.
A machine tool technology class, likethe next half of the day you been
Jenn David-Lang (34:16):
a teacher, but then when you rolled this out,
you were out of the classroom,they pulled you out and you were.
It.
Okay.
Strictly yes,
Tara Link (34:24):
yes.
Developing the program andproviding that, um, instructional
professional development support.
So yes, that's, that's where it was.
And really, this is when I've been ableto do my 17 years of research because
I've done it for 17 years, and use thisas the opportunity to really get in
there, be the boots on the ground person.
(34:44):
Figuring out what is itthat that teachers need?
How do we need tocontinue to adapt to that?
So I think that I would say for districtleaders, no matter where your role is,
whether you are a team leader, if a gradelevel, whether you are on the professional
development kit committee, the principal,the, um, superintendent, really
(35:08):
thinking about, um, first and foremost,how can I just be what I wanna see?
How can I make sure I'mproviding the models?
It might be One example that we havegone district wide is our high school
principal, Deb Hague, began a, an afterschool time for all of the new teachers
(35:33):
in her building, no matter what, howlong they've been teaching together on
Wednesdays for 15 minutes after school,and it's called the New here huddle.
And that is a time that she connects.
Intentionally with the newteachers in the building that
any information is passed along.
(35:54):
They can ask questions.
She may provide a quick pd, whether itbe a strategy, something to think about.
One that really sticks out to me that shedid was she brought the homeroom list of.
For each of her teachers that werethere, and she asked them to write down
one thing about each student on theirhomeroom list that they know about their
(36:18):
students that don't have to do withtheir performance in the classroom.
That's not maybe educationally connected.
And that was a moment then for.
Them to really evaluate, okay, howwell do I know these students and who
are the students that maybe I needto, to make stronger connections with?
So just quick, quick littleopportunities to really make
(36:41):
those connections, um, bind out.
What the teachers need and continue todevelop and help them feel supported.
So that's once
Jenn David-Lang (36:50):
you do that, for how many years, you know, in your Shine program?
So a new teacher comes in first year,how long do you provide them with that
additional support as a new teacher?
Tara Link (36:59):
So for the Shine program itself is two years.
Okay.
Um, and the new here, huddle exampleof what an administrator just does
weekly, they do that for the first year.
Okay.
Yeah.
Of being there.
And that has been, we had such agreat response to that, that that's
something that's actually continuedthroughout the other buildings in the
district, so that, that spread andas, as an effective resource for our
(37:23):
district, of course everybody has tofind, you know, what works for them.
Another thing to think about, um, Ithink is just really finding out what
are some resources that we can provide.
For our teachers that areavailable to them at any time.
There's always questions thatare asked every year the same
(37:46):
questions, whether it be in thebuilding, how do I do attendance?
How do I put in for a day that I needoff to the district level of, you
know, finding out the information aboutinsurance or maybe district policies
and, and where I find that information.
So taking those questions that are.
Basically you'refrequently asked questions.
(38:09):
Yeah.
And creating a resource so that if I'mat home as a new teacher in the district
and it's 10 o'clock at night and I.Don't really wanna, you know, send an
email 'cause I'm not going to get aresponse until the next day or send
a text that I have a place that I cango to to get some of those questions
answered that might be burning questions.
(38:30):
They're, they're important to meas the new teacher at the time.
Jenn David-Lang (38:33):
Yes.
Tara Link (38:33):
Which, for someone who's maybe been there for a few years,
don't seem quite as important.
So really creating thoseresources I think is, is powerful.
So.
Thinking about systems that need tobe in place, that let the teachers
know that you're ready for them,that you're organized, you've
thought about what they need.
(38:53):
Um, checking the communication, you know,check in with your former first year
teachers and asking them, what do you wishyou had had that, that you didn't have?
Um, or again, you know, what workedthat you wanna make sure we keep or
build upon, I think is is another wayto really find out specifically for
where you are and what they're doing.
(39:15):
Um, finding those ways to just, how doyou know how your teachers are doing?
Mm-hmm.
And not just from a perspective of,um, finding what they need to find or,
you know, are you getting your lunchevery day or, or whatever that might be.
But.
How do you tap intotruly how are you doing?
(39:37):
And that comes with being able tobe vulnerable with them, I think.
I think again, modeling being whatyou want to see in them, um, being
intentional about making thoseconnections and also kind of how you
handle when things don't go well.
Is another way that as leaders, I thinkwe have to realize that how we respond to
(40:01):
that is how they gauge what they can sharewith you and, and let you know how it's
going and, and what it is that they need.
Um, something else sometimesthat I think that gets overlooked
is how do we use our resources?
Mm-hmm.
For example, if you have great teachersin your building that you want more
(40:22):
teachers to see and know what they do, howcan you utilize them in a role where you
support their leadership opportunities?
Maybe during that new hear huddletime, like I described earlier,
you bring the teachers in whohave expert areas and allow them
to share with your new teachers.
If you have someone who's really goodwith technology or someone who's really
(40:46):
good with classroom management or lessonplanning, highlight your best teachers
in front of your new teachers andyou're building both at the same time.
And.
That's where that leadership,you know, leading from where
you are really comes into play.
You're building capacityof both and everybody wins.
Jenn David-Lang (41:05):
I really think that rather than sort of taking a multi-year
approach and packaging it and passingit on and say, here, do this, you, you
know, you're really, you know, again,differentiating, you're saying that
yes, you need to, you need to build acomprehensive approach, but it's gonna
look different depending on where you are.
And you know, find out both fromyour teachers who've been there a few
years, what worked in supporting them.
(41:27):
And then also find outwhat your resources are.
'cause maybe in my school, I have ateacher who's really strong in classroom
management, who'd be a great model insomeone else's school, they might not
have that in the form of a teacher, sothey might have to look for a book or a
neighboring district or something else.
So.
So really sort of shape your inductionprogram, your multi-year comprehensive
induction program based on your needsand resources is what I'm hearing.
Tara Link (41:50):
I like to use the example a cook uses a recipe and so we can,
we can provide frameworks and recipesfor induction programs, which I think
the book does a really nice job of, ofgiving some outline examples of starting
places of, of what you can do to kind ofcreate that, um, the important systems.
But then a chef.
(42:11):
Takes a recipe and makes it their own.
And so we have to be.
Chefs in our district and recognizinghow we make it our own and, and
what our teachers need and howwe can develop it from there.
Jenn David-Lang (42:25):
And this reference to the book is your book, so I wanna
make sure people know that yourbook that, uh, it just came out.
Is called, um, teacher induction.
That works a lasting impact from day one.
Um, so you can look that up.
Tara Link.
Um, great, so I wannabe aware of your time.
Any final thoughts or only, or any,uh, you know, if anyone's feeling
(42:48):
overwhelmed, uh, is it helpful?
What's one thing that they could do tostart, if this is seeming like a lot.
Uh, as they're thinking about supportingtheir, their new teachers coming on
for the, for the next school year.
Sure.
Tara Link (43:01):
So I think that a starting place is just pick one place to begin,
whether it be in creating one system of.
Support for the year.
Maybe it's your resources that you wouldlike to build and have those in place.
Maybe it's finding ways to getyour beginning teachers or your new
(43:24):
teachers to have the opportunityto visit other classrooms or to.
Build their professional development.
Maybe it's scheduling instead of a meetingonce a week for 15 minutes after school,
it's finding a time to do it once a month.
I like to use the example of justplus wanting what you're already
(43:46):
doing because small STA stepsover time make a big impact, and
so find a way to just plus one.
What you're already doing.
Ask the people around you whatyou think that should be and take
that feedback and grow from there.
Jenn David-Lang (44:05):
I love that.
We'll end on thatstrengths-based approach.
So Tara Link, thank you somuch again for your time.
We started talking about Harryand Rosemary Wong's book, the
new teacher induction book.
How to recruit, train, andretain new teachers out in 2024.
And then of course, your own book,which is out teacher induction, that
works a lasting impact from day one.
(44:27):
So thank you again.
I so appreciate you takingthe time to talk to me about
this very important topic.
Tara Link (44:32):
Thank you,
Jenn David-Lang (44:32):
Doughty.
Tara Link (44:33):
It was a pleasure to be with you.
Dr. Mike Doughty (44:37):
Thanks for listening to this episode of The
School Leadership Show, a podcast foraspiring and practicing school leaders.
Send your comments, questions,and show ideas to me.
Podcast school leadership show.comand please consider rating the
podcast on iTunes and leaving acomment and definitely pass the
show along to your colleagues.
Hello and welcome to The School Leadership Show.
We do not have Mike Doughty here today.
It's just me, Doughty David Lang, buthe will be back next time, I promise.
Um, today we're gonna talk about Harry Kayand Rosemary T. Wong's most recent book,
"The New Teacher Induction Book (00:21):
How to Recruit, Train, and Retain New Teachers".
Published just in 2024.
It's the book I'm summarizingfor the main idea this month.
Uh, Harry and RosemaryWong need no introduction.
They are educators who havededicated their lives to the
development and wellbeing ofteachers, in particular new teachers.
(00:43):
I first heard about them when I cameacross their classic book on classroom
management, the first days of school,and I did summarize that in the
first year of the main idea in 2007.
I'm sure just about every educator Iknow has, you know, read this book.
It has sold millions of copies.
On a more personal note, I got toknow both of them when I met them
(01:04):
in person and they hired me to writesome PD ideas for one of their books.
And not only are they outstandingleaders and educators, they are just.
Gracious, kind, thoughtful educatorsand um, and people, and they
truly serve as role models of thebest of what this field can be.
Uh, unfortunately we lost Harrylast year and he is sorely miss.
(01:26):
Luckily, I'm honored to be heretoday to talk about the Wong's most
recent book with an educator who isfeatured prominently in the book.
Tara Link.
Um, Tara Link developed andshe's the coordinator of a
new teacher induction program.
Called Shine, which is anacronym I love acronym.
She'll explain that for you.
And she developed it for theMoberly School District in Missouri.
(01:48):
She also recently published her ownbook on the topic of teacher induction.
We'll get to that too.
So congrats on that, Tara.
And uh, yeah, I deeplyappreciating the time that you're
taking to speak with me today.
So welcome to the show.
Tara Link (02:01):
Thank you, Jenn.
I'm very happy to be here and veryhappy to talk about both books.
Jenn David-Lang (02:05):
Good.
Great.
Well, we got a lot to talk about.
So why don't we dive in.
Um, there seem to be a lot of articlesand books right now out about teacher
induction and supporting new teachers.
Why, why is this such an.
Important topic right now and youknow, why did you write your book now?
Sure.
Tara Link (02:24):
Well, as, um, anybody who's in education knows we are in a time period
where getting teachers can be a challenge.
So recruiting them and then retainingthem can also be a challenge for maybe
many different reasons than perhapsthey were even five or six years ago.
(02:44):
And so.
There was certainly a need to reallystart to capture what are the pieces
that can impact not only a district,but just the profession in general
as far as how we can help retain,and then also definitely recruit.
Jenn David-Lang (03:02):
Hmm.
So those two go hand in hand, right?
Yeah.
As we're having more troublerecruiting new teachers into the
profession, we wanna hold on to, um,the best ones as much as possible.
So you're seeing both a challengein terms of recruiting as well as
a challenge with teachers leaving.
You're seeing both ofthose at the same time.
Tara Link (03:21):
Absolutely.
I think it's something too that's maybenot even unique to just our state, but
definitely it's a, it's a nationwidechallenge that we're experiencing.
Just lots of dialogue around, you know,what does it mean to be a teacher?
Of course, the age.
Old question of teacher salary and,um, that being attractive, um, you
(03:45):
know, just a lot of different layersI think that we're having to explore.
It's not just one, one thing or,or one issue, but, but a multi.
Player approach to, toreally looking at that.
Jenn David-Lang (03:57):
Yeah, it's challenging.
I, I read in a recent article that11% on average of your first year
teachers are gonna leave by the endof the first year, and that 20 to 40%
leave within the first five years.
So it does seem key to focus on those.
Those newest teachers while Sure, wehave teachers who are retiring, maybe
retiring earlier than they would've afew years ago, but I think it's that, you
(04:20):
know, that beginning, uh, time period,and a statistic that I read in, um,
the Wong's book was that about 50% ofteachers received no induction at all.
And, uh, it is, it is veryhard to be a new teacher.
Um, of course we were both new teachers atsome point, but, you know, for the sake of
(04:41):
asking on a podcast, what are you seeing?
What is so hard about being a new teacher?
And is it harder today than, you know,than when I started Or you started?
What, what's so hard about it?
Tara Link (04:51):
Sure.
Well, and to your pointabout there being a lack of.
Opportunities for induction programs.
I think, you know, everybodyhas a welcome committee.
We, we always have a way that we welcometeachers to school, but we have to think
about, do we just leave that welcome upto chance or do we actually build a system
that is comprehensive and extensive andsustained to, to support our teachers?
(05:16):
And to your point of, you know, what,what are the challenges of coming in?
I think the challenge that everyone,no matter what generation you're in,
experiences, just classroom managementin general, that is certainly a component
that is critically important forgetting started and, and staying in.
So just managing those pieces.
(05:38):
But on top of that, I think thatthere's sometimes a gap between
what teachers think teachingis going to be like and what.
It really is.
And so helping fill that gap with supportand resources to navigate those times,
I think can be really challenging.
(05:59):
Another situation that I just thinkwithin the last few years has become.
A new challenge maybe, is that we'regetting a lot of new teachers that
are coming in different routes.
So whereas maybe we would'vetraditionally had new teachers that
went through a college preparatoryprogram, now the face of coming into
(06:22):
education looks a little bit different.
We may have people coming in thatwere, you know, have degrees in
other fields that aren't education.
Um, they may be.
Are working on their degree while they'reteaching, or we've even had examples of
people who are in the school maybe ina role different than being a classroom
(06:44):
teacher, such as being a paraprofessionalwho are transitioning into the role of
suddenly becoming the teacher of record.
And so navigating all of thosedifferent needs that come with the.
Different avenues for which we havepeople coming to us, certainly is
a challenge for them as well asus on the, on the induction side.
(07:06):
It's helpful to,
Jenn David-Lang (07:06):
you know, it's been a while right?
Since I've been a first year teacher.
I don't know what you, butprobably a while, so it's
helpful to be reminded of these.
Uh, I hadn't thought about someof these in a little while.
Uh, I mean, first of all, that gapbetween what teachers think, right?
From, I don't know, based on either whatthey saw on TV or every teacher has been
a student I. My husband always says, we'rein New York City, where I think 50% of
(07:28):
all new restaurants close within the firstyear, so higher than first year teachers.
And he always says, oh, you know,everyone's been a customer in a
restaurant, so they think theycan run a restaurant, right?
So we've all been students in theclassroom, but we didn't realize
all the tricks, strategies, tools,preparation that went into the behind
the scenes work of our favorite teacher.
(07:49):
We just thought they were really,you know, warmhearted people.
So I hadn't thought about that gap.
And that's really, that'sreally interesting.
Yeah.
I, um, recently came across an articleabout the helpful mind frames for, for,
for new teachers versus the mind framesthey might have, and then this idea of
this sort of alternative certification,you know, as we have a harder and harder
(08:10):
time holding onto our teachers, right.
We wanna open up more avenues right.
To, to let more in, but then we're notrealizing that may come with a need.
For more training and moresupport while doing that, right?
You can't change one part of theformula without changing the other part.
And then you do mentionclassroom management.
And I do hear a lot, I think everygeneration hears, oh, kids these
(08:33):
days, they're so much worse, right?
Oh, now they curse at you.
Oh, now they pull out their cell phones.
Do you think classroom management is worsein 2025 than it was 5, 10, 20 years ago?
That is a great
Tara Link (08:45):
question.
I do think that the challengesmaybe have grown not in differences
with the number of, um, issues.
I think probably the number of issuesthat we're having to deal with maybe
has, has increased a little bit.
(09:05):
Again, every, I think generationwe're navigating different avenues
of challenges, whether it be TVwhen, you know, it was the eighties.
Our children were in front of television,and so that was a worry and you know,
showing movies in class and now we'renavigating to a different form of
(09:26):
technology and figuring out what theboundaries are and how to face those
challenges that come with, you know,different, just different issues I think
that come with the different generations.
I know.
Along with that, I think wehave a lot more knowledge.
Um, in, in thinking about classroommanagement, behavior management, you
(09:48):
know, we're looking at now executivefunctioning skills and understanding
that where 10 years ago it might nothave been as much of a conversation.
So we have more information and weare more informed at the same time.
Just figuring out how to placeall of those in ways to help
us meet the needs of our kids.
I do think creates a challengefor our time right now.
(10:09):
That's a good
Jenn David-Lang (10:09):
point.
Um, so I'd love to ask, you know, and I,and I phrase this in the negative, like,
why is it so hard to retain teachers?
You know, I, I like to thinkabout what we're doing wrong.
Not because I want to blame all of usin leadership, but I think sometimes
that's the clear way of understanding,you know, what we're not doing.
Like you, you know, you said, um.
Often we're leaving it up to chance,you know, so what I was teaching
(10:33):
a lot was left up to chance.
And so if you had, you know,go-getter leaders or teachers, right?
They created amazingschools and classrooms.
So what is it about inductionthat we may be getting wrong?
Like why, why is it so hard to retain?
Teachers?
Tara Link (10:49):
Well, if I had the exact answer to that, I feel like I would be
able to, um, you know, really, reallybe making changes right away tomorrow.
Okay.
Um, but I do have sometheories about things that are
important for us to really, I.
Think about in the process of, of buildingthose systems, whether they, no matter
(11:10):
what size district that you're with,um, what we know is that generationally,
again, I think having to recognizethat the differences of different
generations change and adapting to that.
We talk a lot aboutdifferentiation in the classroom,
Jenn David-Lang (11:30):
and
Tara Link (11:31):
so we really have to recognize what that.
Differentiation piece looks like,I think for our teachers as well.
Um, one of the things I know that in thebook, the teacher induction book by the
Wongs, that I. I think is really powerfulis the power of the Stay interview.
(11:52):
That was one of the chapters, Ithink that was chapter seven, and
being really willing to tap intowho you have there right now.
Find out why they are staying and makingsure that you continue to build upon that.
I think that's a a great idea.
That we need to make sure thatwe're capturing, um, we know that.
Jenn David-Lang (12:17):
Can I pause you there?
Can I pause you there?
Just 'cause some people might not know.
So the stay interview is differentfrom an an exit interview.
I always say an exit interviewis like an autopsy, right?
They're already gone.
Our teachers are gone.
Or your employees where, um,but the stay interview you do.
Early enough with the teachers,you want to stay to find out how
they're thriving or not and howyou could better support them.
(12:40):
And I've been talking about thestay interview for, for years, and I
usually suggest that leaders do it,you know, around February, March.
But I, but in this book, whatI thought was brilliant is that
the Wong say for new teachers.
Do it even earlier, likeall like October, November.
You know, you have a sense there'sno new teacher who is fully formed by
(13:01):
October, November, but you have a senseof the people who are new teachers,
yet they're, they're go-getters.
They're willing to learn,they're willing to take feedback.
They're, they're working hard.
You have a sense of who you want to stay.
If 11% of our first year teachers areleaving by the end of the year, they've
probably made that decision by Februaryor March, and that's a long time to go.
(13:21):
So to start in October, November, meetone-on-one with your first year teachers
to say, you know, you're doing great.
I'd like you to stay.
You don't have it all figured out yet.
You know, that's okay.
I don't have it all figured out yet.
Um, you know, what could Ido to better support you?
But that timeline that they put inthe book, I thought was brilliant.
Tara Link (13:38):
It is, and I can tell you firsthand from being the
boots on the ground person forour district, it is critical.
And that's where I have the joy ofworking directly with our beginning
teachers day in and day out.
And so being able to tap into thosemoments of finding out what is going well
and what are the challenges, and reallyusing a lot of follow up opportunities in
(14:03):
the form of anytime we do a PD session.
We always ask for feedback.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, checking in with ourmentors as well who are supporting
these teachers and finding out whatare they recognizing are important.
To the new teacher as well as tothe district to make sure that
(14:23):
we're, we're keeping those in checkand, and just constant check-ins.
And that is something that in readinginformation and literature and research
about different generations is maybethe difference between like our.
Generation, um, what are we XI think,and, and millennials and maybe what
would be considerate, consideredGeneration Z now is a lot of our
(14:48):
leaders, including myself, is in onegeneration where we were kind of, um.
During this time of professionalism,just used to a couple of
visits into the classroom.
Maybe we get feedback once or twice ayear and then we just go on our way.
Yeah, and that's kind ofhow the system was set up.
And we perhaps have a generation of.
(15:12):
Teachers coming in that really value thatconstant feedback and they like to have
somebody in their room or give, you know,helping them out and, and giving them
tips and tricks and ideas and strategies.
And so that's important to them.
And so we need to make sure.
That if we're doing that, youknow, we can find the time.
(15:33):
So that's another thing.
As as leaders, we have lotsof hats that we're wearing.
And so really recognizing what isimportant to our teachers in the building.
And so that constantfeedback is one of them.
Um.
Another
Jenn David-Lang (15:46):
differentiation piece that you're mentioning is key, sort of
the sort of two levels of differentiation.
First, differentiating generations, right?
So this is the newest youngest teachersof Gen Z may have different needs
than what we knew from the past.
And then individual differentiationbased on what you hear in
the in the stay interviews.
So that,
Tara Link (16:03):
right, so it's formative assessment at the, at the teacher
level versus the, the summative.
So that, that is super important.
We also know that career developmentis important for our new teachers, and
so really providing kind of a clearpathway and mapping out options for them
(16:24):
ahead of time instead of maybe leavingit up to them to figure it out and.
Really providing intentional optionsfor them to stay engaged and ways for
them to grow themselves and and growin leadership, I think is something
that maybe hasn't always been quiteas transparent in the profession
that we're recognizing is important.
(16:46):
Um,
Jenn David-Lang (16:47):
and I love the stay interview question for
new teachers saying, where doyou see yourself in five years?
Right, right.
You're acknowledging, you know,
Tara Link (16:53):
you're a new teacher, but I have big hopes for you.
You know, and, yeah.
Yeah.
And then, you know, I know somethingthat's really important for me in
working with beginning teachers isjust the importance of clarity and
whether it be clarity for them inthe classroom with their students
regarding learning, but then also.
(17:14):
Us making sure that we're providingthe clarity that they need in
order to understand, um, culture.
I call this the four Cs, so it's.
Clarity about culture and compliance andclarification about their job, as well
as providing clarity about ways thatthey can connect with people and making
(17:36):
sure both sides are clear about that.
Um, you know, it's not one person'sjob really to support our new teachers.
We want it to be everybody's.
Takes a village.
It takes a village.
Right, right.
That's actually another chapterin our, our book is Oh, really?
It really is.
Yeah.
And, um, how we can just help eachother lead from where they are, and
(17:59):
it become a culture of what we do.
And whether, you know, we're, we'rethinking about our school custodian
to our, um, food services people,to our technology, um, support
people to our secretaries when,when teachers come into school.
But how can we really make this a cultureof supporting teachers and, and what
(18:21):
are some strategies for doing that?
So, you know, there's lots, again, lotsof layers I think about how we keep them.
Yeah.
Um, but, but those are some thatreally tend to rise to the top.
That's
Jenn David-Lang (18:32):
great.
Um, I wanna, um, I wanna divespecifically into the Wong's book,
the new teacher induction book.
And I really sort of pulled outthree main themes, and maybe that's
helpful for people to think aboutthat they found from, you know,
from research and experience thatfor a new teacher induction and
support program, it's helpful.
(18:53):
To build in, um, collaboration,new teachers, collaborating with
each other and, um, others, um,professional development that is, you
know, tailored to them in a particularkind of professional development.
They talk about PD that doesn'twork, which I wanna talk about,
and then they talk about having acomprehensive, multi-year approach.
So like what you said, it's not justthe welcome and then leave it up.
(19:15):
To chance it's far more comprehensive.
So I thought maybe if we could talkfor a few minutes about each of those,
starting with the collaboration piece.
Why is collaboration so importantfor new teachers and what kind of
collaboration do you believe they need?
Tara Link (19:31):
The collaboration helps them feel a part of the culture.
And helps them be, not an outsider,but a part of building what we want
to use to reach our mission and thinkit's collaboration on a lot of levels.
It can be collaboration between thesupport systems, whether that be.
(19:52):
The coach, if there's a, you know,an instructional coach there, the
support that goes with having amentor, the support from leadership
really develops that importance of,um, collaboration and just helping
them feel a sense of belonging.
Teamwork is important and knowingthat you're a part of something
(20:13):
bigger than yourself, kind of havingthat North star to be a part of, I
think is, is really powerful for.
Teachers to, you know, feel the culture,know it's evident, um, know that
it's focused and orderly essentially,that we've planned for them and we've
planned for our culture and we'veplanned for collaboration that helps
(20:35):
them to build that capacity as well.
And so when we create thoseopportunities and we intentionally.
Plan for them.
Then we are developing, I thinkthose systems that they talk
about for re for retaining.
I love how in the book they talk about howthis is done literally around the world.
Jenn David-Lang (20:56):
Yeah.
Tara Link (20:56):
That, that collaboration piece in Finland and Japan and
Singapore, and really providing a globalperspective of, of what that looks
like and why it's important and, um,how it really contributes to, at the
ultimate goal, educating our students.
Jenn David-Lang (21:15):
I love that.
You know, you tie the teamwork.
To having a sense of somethingbigger than yourself almost.
It, it helps to inductthem into the, the purpose.
And, uh, in recent Gallup poll, I sawthat nine out of 10 Gen Zers found
that a sense of purpose, having asense of purpose at work is essential.
For, you know, connect obviouslylongevity, connecting them
(21:38):
to their, to their work.
And so it sounds like that sortof kills two birds with one stone.
Right?
It sort of induct them and it also bringsthem into the purpose of the school.
Um, and I love in the book that,you know, they, they give some
really concrete suggestions like.
Some collaboration with veteran teacherswhere veteran teachers can bring the
new teachers through a simulated firstday, including like show, bringing the
(21:58):
teachers, the new teachers to theirrooms and saying, this is what it
looks like when it's organized and setup, and that kind of collaboration.
And then the other thing, I don'tthink I got this from this book,
but, um, this idea of sociallyinducting our new teachers, that we
professionally induct them, right?
He's, here's your password,here's your curriculum.
(22:19):
Right?
All of this stuff.
But socially inducting them, connectingthem to the fourth grade team,
connecting them to the veteran teachers,connecting them to, you know, the,
uh, the administrators are you as theleader going in at the end of day one
and checking in with your every first.
Your teacher, how are you doing?
At the end of the first week?
At the end of the second week.
(22:39):
So just think of the, the socialinduction to me is connected to the
collaboration that they need to succeed.
Tara Link (22:45):
And I would even suggest that that begins from the
moment they sign their contract.
Jenn David-Lang (22:50):
Yes.
Tara Link (22:51):
Is really finding those opportunities to provide those
connections from the very beginning,whether it be at the district level and
having the superintendent reach out.
To connect or the buildingprincipal to connect or
encouraging the mentors to connect.
(23:12):
Um, that can happen right away.
It may not happen in person until theyshow up for orientation, depending on
location and, and different situations.
But I do think you're right that thatsocial connection piece really almost has
to happen before we can do anything else.
It's very similar.
It goes right back to what we.
Know about students inthe classroom, right?
(23:34):
Is that those connections, um, haveto start before really any of the
learning pieces are going to take hold.
And so I think it's verysimilar to that in the class
with our new teachers as well.
Um, helping those connections kindof lead into then those next steps.
Jenn David-Lang (23:52):
Yeah, I mean, connect humans have, um, a
universal need to connect.
And when that need is met,then you can feel safe.
And so we want our teacher, newteachers to feel safe, right?
Because arguably, they are the adultsin the building who feel the least safe.
They're starting a new job.
And so that leads to the second component.
So the wgs talk about how collaborationis key for an effective onboarding system.
(24:16):
And then the second one is,is PD professional learning.
Which I believe safety is necessaryfor teachers to truly learn.
So why is this component, why is PD soimportant for the new teacher and, you
know, what kind of PD do they need?
Tara Link (24:31):
Right?
So thinking about where they are andwhere we want them to go and what,
um, that trajectory might look like isreally what embodies the, the PD process.
I. Really in my whole process of creatingour new teacher induction program with
so much support from all of the Longsbooks, um, is really thinking about
(24:54):
what do we want for our teachers todo in the classroom with students, and
really transferring that to what weneed to do with our teachers as well.
So it's really important thatwe be what we want to see.
Hmm.
And so providing not only the PDopportunities, but being the model day
(25:18):
in and day out as leaders in making surethat we're very clear about what those.
Learning pieces are that are goingto be most important for our grade
level, for our building, and thenalso at the, at the district level.
So providing not only the PD and clarityaround why we're doing it, I think is
(25:41):
important, but then also providing thosefollow up opportunities to make sure that
they have the support that they need.
In the classroom to implement thatprofessional development and, and those
learning opportunities, if we just do aone and done and then send them back or on
their way to, to do whatever we, you know,we, we provide for them, um, our chances
(26:06):
of it actually happening greatly reduce.
Every day thereafter.
But if we do have a systematic programin place through induction where we can
provide those follow up opportunitiesand very intentional moments of,
of learning and application, then.
The opportunity for being moresuccessful at it is definitely greater.
(26:29):
And then again, it's also going tobe best for our students, right?
So at the end of the day, it'sall about our students learning.
And again, our, our teachers feelsupported and feel like they have
the tools and the knowledge and theinformation and the understandings
that they need to be successful.
Why would you wanna leave?
Jenn David-Lang (26:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I think, um, you know, forany PD you don't want it to be.
You know, one and done.
Um, but then particularly for firstyear teacher, the leaving the follow up.
To chance as opposed to actually followingup, um, is not going to ensure that they
have internalized the learning and alsoyou can't help them with the tweaking
(27:09):
and massaging so that they get it.
Right.
And, and you know, you've mentionedclarity several times and I think
that is probably a big part of.
Why new teachers struggle andleave is our, our lack of clarity.
You know, if 90% of your teachers werethere last year and you, you know,
they all, they're very clear on theexpectations and they know the two
year goal, you know, it's hard togo back and remember, oh, I've gotta
(27:31):
start all that, you know, from scratch.
And I might have to do a separate sessionwith just the new teachers if I don't
want, you know, for differentiation.
So, um, I think thatclarity is very important.
The other thing the Wongs mentionis that often the PD that we give
to our new teachers is, you know,what's the shiny new initiative?
You know, oh, we have a newreading curriculum, so let's
(27:53):
focus all of our learning on that.
But really that we should be goingback to basics and, you know, the book
obviously, um, their classic book,the first days of school, really back
to like procedures and all of that.
So even if they did that in, um.
In their pre-service or whatever program.
Um, first of all, one, like you'resaying, there are many alternative routes
(28:15):
that they're coming from, and learningstuff in school is very different
from implementing it on the ground.
And so to really make sure that theprofessional learning for your new
teachers, it focuses around just thereal basics of, you know, classroom
management, lesson planning, studentengagement, just those kinds of things.
(28:35):
I thought that was a really importantdistinction that they make in the book.
Tara Link (28:39):
As a person who's been in education for 29 years, I read through
literally the whole page that theyhave of fads in, in education, um,
and different focuses and could justgo through the list to go Yes, yes.
Check, check, check, and, and reallywhen it's all on one page of all the
(29:01):
different, as they call them, fads, um.
It really is quite overwhelming.
Um, it, it makes you stop and think
Jenn David-Lang (29:09):
Yes,
Tara Link (29:10):
what is, what is currently that, and where are we in that process?
Jenn David-Lang (29:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think their finalcomponent that, you know, um.
An induction or support system shouldbe comprehensive and multi-year.
I think too many of us have beenguilty of, you know, bringing in
the new teachers two days early and,you know, and that's kind of it.
Um, and not for any, you know,bad reasons, but just it's a
(29:35):
busy life in a school that takessome planning and some thinking.
You know?
And this is Tara, where youare, you are highlighted.
You started.
This comprehensive multiyear approachapproach in Missouri called Shine.
So maybe could you tell us.
What's the acronym?
I love your acronym, what it standsfor, and tell us a little bit
about this comprehensive multi-yearapproach to teacher induction.
(29:58):
Sure.
Tara Link (29:59):
SHINE stands for supporting, helping and inspiring new
educators, and we started in 2008.
Really as an experiment.
It was a trial.
It was going to be one year of, youknow, this sounded like a great idea.
Kind of captured some pieces from,uh, another district that was much
(30:20):
larger than us, and 17 years later,here we are with this comprehensive
systematic program that as we.
Did the research and really looked atall the pieces that were important for
our beginning teachers and, and developedthat over time to the point where it just
(30:43):
became a part of our district culture.
But the important pieces of it are thatit was systematic and very intentional.
And grown and developedthroughout the years.
So when we were getting started,how I got connected with the WS was
that I was given the opportunity to.
Start this process and Iwas looking at research.
(31:06):
I was looking at other programs throughoutthe United States and happened to find the
first new teacher induction book availableand reached out to the Wongs who were so
gracious to respond and started askingquestions and just looked at programs
throughout the United States and found.
The pieces that I thought fit forus as well as develop the ones
(31:30):
that we discovered were needed.
And through that building process, wereally developed a program that was
widespread and just became a part of.
Who we are and what we do, so thatthe clarifying pieces, um, became
just embedded in, in our culture.
(31:52):
And so that was, that's theexciting part because now.
Our teachers that used to be apart of our Shine program have
gone on to become our mentors.
And so by them experiencing the positivepieces of being supported, then that just
continues to grow and and pass along.
(32:14):
And then also just the fact thatour district, our school board, our
superintendents, were able to provide.
An additional resource in myself andinstructional coaches to provide that
day by day support and that opportunityto go in when you know, when you're a
mentor and you have your own classroom,it's not as easy to get in to supporting
(32:39):
your new teacher in real time.
And so providing that opportunityas well as professional development
and creating those social.
Connections and, and just makingit a comprehensive piece is
really what our program developedinto and, and what it is today.
And I'll have you share
Jenn David-Lang (32:58):
concretely some of those pieces.
So imagine, um, principals andsuperintendents are listening to
this and they think that's greatthat your district started that.
I'm the principal, I'm the superintendent.
I don't have time for this.
So my question is, when theytapped you on the shoulder, were
you a teacher, a teacher leader,a coach, a assistant principal?
Who were you at that point?
And two.
(33:19):
Okay, so I don't have time for this,and then two, I don't have money.
So can you tell me, you know, I.
When you led this, what role wereyou in and can you tell us what
are some of the components that youthink are replicable that, you know,
people listening could, could do intheir districts or their schools?
Tara Link (33:34):
Yes, because this is actually something that I present at
conferences about, um, throughout thestate to be able to share that because
not everybody has a, has a personsuch as my role to be able to do that.
Yeah.
Um, so I started, I was a.Teacher, teacher, I had experience
at both the middle schoollevel and the elementary level.
And so that's how I kind of cameinto the opportunity to do that.
(33:58):
Having a little bit of experiencein both levels, provided the
ability to do it K through 12.
So there were some days, um, in the firstseveral years, I would say probably the
first 10 years of the program, I mightbe in a kindergarten classroom one day.
A machine tool technology class, likethe next half of the day you been
Jenn David-Lang (34:16):
a teacher, but then when you rolled this out,
you were out of the classroom,they pulled you out and you were.
It.
Okay.
Strictly yes,
Tara Link (34:24):
yes.
Developing the program andproviding that, um, instructional
professional development support.
So yes, that's, that's where it was.
And really, this is when I've been ableto do my 17 years of research because
I've done it for 17 years, and use thisas the opportunity to really get in
there, be the boots on the ground person.
(34:44):
Figuring out what is itthat that teachers need?
How do we need tocontinue to adapt to that?
So I think that I would say for districtleaders, no matter where your role is,
whether you are a team leader, if a gradelevel, whether you are on the professional
development kit committee, the principal,the, um, superintendent, really
(35:08):
thinking about, um, first and foremost,how can I just be what I wanna see?
How can I make sure I'mproviding the models?
It might be One example that we havegone district wide is our high school
principal, Deb Hague, began a, an afterschool time for all of the new teachers
(35:33):
in her building, no matter what, howlong they've been teaching together on
Wednesdays for 15 minutes after school,and it's called the New here huddle.
And that is a time that she connects.
Intentionally with the newteachers in the building that
any information is passed along.
(35:54):
They can ask questions.
She may provide a quick pd, whether itbe a strategy, something to think about.
One that really sticks out to me that shedid was she brought the homeroom list of.
For each of her teachers that werethere, and she asked them to write down
one thing about each student on theirhomeroom list that they know about their
(36:18):
students that don't have to do withtheir performance in the classroom.
That's not maybe educationally connected.
And that was a moment then for.
Them to really evaluate, okay, howwell do I know these students and who
are the students that maybe I needto, to make stronger connections with?
So just quick, quick littleopportunities to really make
(36:41):
those connections, um, bind out.
What the teachers need and continue todevelop and help them feel supported.
So that's once
Jenn David-Lang (36:50):
you do that, for how many years, you know, in your Shine program?
So a new teacher comes in first year,how long do you provide them with that
additional support as a new teacher?
Tara Link (36:59):
So for the Shine program itself is two years.
Okay.
Um, and the new here, huddle exampleof what an administrator just does
weekly, they do that for the first year.
Okay.
Yeah.
Of being there.
And that has been, we had such agreat response to that, that that's
something that's actually continuedthroughout the other buildings in the
district, so that, that spread andas, as an effective resource for our
(37:23):
district, of course everybody has tofind, you know, what works for them.
Another thing to think about, um, Ithink is just really finding out what
are some resources that we can provide.
For our teachers that areavailable to them at any time.
There's always questions thatare asked every year the same
(37:46):
questions, whether it be in thebuilding, how do I do attendance?
How do I put in for a day that I needoff to the district level of, you
know, finding out the information aboutinsurance or maybe district policies
and, and where I find that information.
So taking those questions that are.
Basically you'refrequently asked questions.
(38:09):
Yeah.
And creating a resource so that if I'mat home as a new teacher in the district
and it's 10 o'clock at night and I.Don't really wanna, you know, send an
email 'cause I'm not going to get aresponse until the next day or send
a text that I have a place that I cango to to get some of those questions
answered that might be burning questions.
(38:30):
They're, they're important to meas the new teacher at the time.
Jenn David-Lang (38:33):
Yes.
Tara Link (38:33):
Which, for someone who's maybe been there for a few years,
don't seem quite as important.
So really creating thoseresources I think is, is powerful.
So.
Thinking about systems that need tobe in place, that let the teachers
know that you're ready for them,that you're organized, you've
thought about what they need.
(38:53):
Um, checking the communication, you know,check in with your former first year
teachers and asking them, what do you wishyou had had that, that you didn't have?
Um, or again, you know, what workedthat you wanna make sure we keep or
build upon, I think is is another wayto really find out specifically for
where you are and what they're doing.
(39:15):
Um, finding those ways to just, how doyou know how your teachers are doing?
Mm-hmm.
And not just from a perspective of,um, finding what they need to find or,
you know, are you getting your lunchevery day or, or whatever that might be.
But.
How do you tap intotruly how are you doing?
(39:37):
And that comes with being able tobe vulnerable with them, I think.
I think again, modeling being whatyou want to see in them, um, being
intentional about making thoseconnections and also kind of how you
handle when things don't go well.
Is another way that as leaders, I thinkwe have to realize that how we respond to
(40:01):
that is how they gauge what they can sharewith you and, and let you know how it's
going and, and what it is that they need.
Um, something else sometimesthat I think that gets overlooked
is how do we use our resources?
Mm-hmm.
For example, if you have great teachersin your building that you want more
(40:22):
teachers to see and know what they do, howcan you utilize them in a role where you
support their leadership opportunities?
Maybe during that new hear huddletime, like I described earlier,
you bring the teachers in whohave expert areas and allow them
to share with your new teachers.
If you have someone who's really goodwith technology or someone who's really
(40:46):
good with classroom management or lessonplanning, highlight your best teachers
in front of your new teachers andyou're building both at the same time.
And.
That's where that leadership,you know, leading from where
you are really comes into play.
You're building capacityof both and everybody wins.
Jenn David-Lang (41:05):
I really think that rather than sort of taking a multi-year
approach and packaging it and passingit on and say, here, do this, you, you
know, you're really, you know, again,differentiating, you're saying that
yes, you need to, you need to build acomprehensive approach, but it's gonna
look different depending on where you are.
And you know, find out both fromyour teachers who've been there a few
years, what worked in supporting them.
(41:27):
And then also find outwhat your resources are.
'cause maybe in my school, I have ateacher who's really strong in classroom
management, who'd be a great model insomeone else's school, they might not
have that in the form of a teacher, sothey might have to look for a book or a
neighboring district or something else.
So.
So really sort of shape your inductionprogram, your multi-year comprehensive
induction program based on your needsand resources is what I'm hearing.
Tara Link (41:50):
I like to use the example a cook uses a recipe and so we can,
we can provide frameworks and recipesfor induction programs, which I think
the book does a really nice job of, ofgiving some outline examples of starting
places of, of what you can do to kind ofcreate that, um, the important systems.
But then a chef.
(42:11):
Takes a recipe and makes it their own.
And so we have to be.
Chefs in our district and recognizinghow we make it our own and, and
what our teachers need and howwe can develop it from there.
Jenn David-Lang (42:25):
And this reference to the book is your book, so I wanna
make sure people know that yourbook that, uh, it just came out.
Is called, um, teacher induction.
That works a lasting impact from day one.
Um, so you can look that up.
Tara Link.
Um, great, so I wannabe aware of your time.
Any final thoughts or only, or any,uh, you know, if anyone's feeling
(42:48):
overwhelmed, uh, is it helpful?
What's one thing that they could do tostart, if this is seeming like a lot.
Uh, as they're thinking about supportingtheir, their new teachers coming on
for the, for the next school year.
Sure.
Tara Link (43:01):
So I think that a starting place is just pick one place to begin,
whether it be in creating one system of.
Support for the year.
Maybe it's your resources that you wouldlike to build and have those in place.
Maybe it's finding ways to getyour beginning teachers or your new
(43:24):
teachers to have the opportunityto visit other classrooms or to.
Build their professional development.
Maybe it's scheduling instead of a meetingonce a week for 15 minutes after school,
it's finding a time to do it once a month.
I like to use the example of justplus wanting what you're already
(43:46):
doing because small STA stepsover time make a big impact, and
so find a way to just plus one.
What you're already doing.
Ask the people around you whatyou think that should be and take
that feedback and grow from there.
Jenn David-Lang (44:05):
I love that.
We'll end on thatstrengths-based approach.
So Tara Link, thank you somuch again for your time.
We started talking about Harryand Rosemary Wong's book, the
new teacher induction book.
How to recruit, train, andretain new teachers out in 2024.
And then of course, your own book,which is out teacher induction, that
works a lasting impact from day one.
(44:27):
So thank you again.
I so appreciate you takingthe time to talk to me about
this very important topic.
Tara Link (44:32):
Thank you,
Jenn David-Lang (44:32):
Doughty.
Tara Link (44:33):
It was a pleasure to be with you.
Dr. Mike Doughty (44:37):
Thanks for listening to this episode of The
School Leadership Show, a podcast foraspiring and practicing school leaders.
Send your comments, questions,and show ideas to me.
Podcast school leadership show.comand please consider rating the
podcast on iTunes and leaving acomment and definitely pass the
show along to your colleagues.
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