July 15, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode of ShiftShapers, host David A. Saltzman welcomes Sally Pace, CEO of Connect Healthcare Collaboration and co-founder of The Granite List—a platform built to help benefits advisors compare point solutions with clarity and confidence.
Sally shares how her background in storytelling and communication led to the creation of employee engagement strategies that bridge the gap between tech and human connection. From clinical and benefits advocacy to empowering advisors with transparency tools, Sally emphasizes how trust, education, and personalization are reshaping the future of benefits.
👉 Learn more or create a free profile at: www.thegranitelist.com
🤖 Sponsored by BenePower
BenePower is an AI-powered platform helping advisors build high-impact, self-insured health plans quickly and seamlessly. By integrating best-in-class point solutions and eliminating inefficiencies, BenePower reduces costs, improves member outcomes, and positions advisors as industry leaders.
🔗 Learn more at BenePower.com
🔑 Key Takeaways from This Episode
📌 Don’t Wait for Enrollment to Start Educating
Sally explains why the most effective strategies involve consistent, year-round communication—not just an annual packet.
📌 Real Advocacy Requires Real People
Benefits are confusing. Using high-touch, concierge-style advocates helps employees actually use what’s offered.
📌 Data Is Powerful, But Not Enough
AI can identify needs—but human guidance drives understanding and usage. Together, they make an unstoppable team.
📌 Fiduciary Pressure Is Rising
With plan sponsors increasingly held accountable for engagement, education is no longer optional—it’s essential.
📌 The Granite List Gives Advisors a Clearer View
Point solutions are overwhelming. The Granite List brings organization, community insight, and streamlined comparison to the marketplace.
⏱️ In This Episode
00:00 Introduction to Sally and her background
02:11 Lessons from HGTV and marketing communication
04:00 Building human-centered engagement tools
06:00 The staggering underutilization of benefits
08:40 Why AI needs a human touch to work
10:50 Making enrollment an opportunity, not a hurdle
12:30 Advisors and the fiduciary conversation
16:00 Birth of The Granite List platform
18:00 Helping advisors and consultants vet point solutions
20:00 Transparency and personalization in benefit design
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Connecting with customers is table stakes, but
adding a streamlined enrollmentprocess, increasing engagement
and finding the best pointsolutions, that's the winning
hand.
The question is how do you dothat?
We'll find out on this episodeof Shift Shapers.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Change either energizes or paralyzes.
The choice is yours.
This is the Shift Shaperspodcast, bringing the employee
benefits industry interviewswith individuals and companies
who are shaping the industryshifts.
And now here's your host, davidSaltzman.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And to help us answer that, we have invited Sally
Pace, ceo at Connect HealthcareCollaboration.
Welcome, sally, thanks forbeing here.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thanks for having me on, david, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's our pleasure.
So we usually ask people abouttheir background.
How do you get to be doing whatyou're doing?
Because for most of us in thisbusiness, it's not a straight
line.
So what's your backstory?
How do you find yourself doingthis kind of crazy work?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Absolutely Well.
First, the simple answer isI've been married into it for 28
years.
The professional side of it isthat I didn't dream of being in
the employee benefits industry.
Healthcare insurance lump themall together.
When I was in college, I was anEnglish major and I loved the
(01:21):
written word and the spoken word.
Those of you that know me knowhow much I do love to talk and I
have made a career over thecourse of my career, working for
companies like HGTV, autozone,fhn Financial one of you know in
the fixed income capitalmarkets arena, being put in
positions where if I could putsomething into a term that I
(01:42):
could understand, then anyonecould.
If I could put something into aterm that I could understand,
then anyone could.
That came most clear right outof the gate at HGTV, because at
the time it was the fastestgrowing cable network in the
United States actually in theworld and I loved all of the
design projects that were shown.
So naturally, I was put incharge of helping communicate
(02:03):
the building and remodelingprojects.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Got to live out what I've learned.
But the other side of it ishaving been married to a
benefits consultant for 28 yearsnext month.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you To the same person too.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, that's important.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
That's right that I've seen you know this shift,
if you will in this emergence ofall these great solutions that
are transparent, that are niche,that are really doing wonderful
things, and there was anopportunity there to help them
share their story, build theirbrand and drive employee
(02:41):
engagement.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It really is and that's key.
And you know our practices aredifferent, although we both we
work in different ends of thesame kind of marketing on more
message or more execution butit's incredibly important,
especially if you want to standout and because there's lots of
folks out there applying thetrade these days.
So if you had to focus in on,like one major problem when you
(03:02):
started, what was that problemthat you set out to solve?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well, it is solely everything we do is about
ultimately driving employeeengagement, and so that is our
laser focus across all ourbusiness lines.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
So how do you do that ?
I mean, it's as plans havegotten more complex and
employees have gotten more forlack of a nicer term fed up with
medical insurance especially.
How do you do that?
What's the kind of things thatyou look for?
What should other people bekind of keying in on?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, you know, we've seen over the past let's call
it five years kind ofpre-pandemic this surge, and
then certainly post-pandemic,this reliance on AI and
platforms and digital tools, andthose are wonderful, but at the
end of the day, particularlythe people that need the most
(03:57):
help within a plan need a personto hold their hand, and so
we've built a couple of businesslines around that and I'd love
to tell you a little bit about.
You know how we do that indifferent areas.
You know when we think aboutthese point solutions that are
in the marketplace and you knowthis just like I do.
You've got these reallywell-intentioned say, a
(04:19):
clinician that has decidedthey're going to build some
fabulous platform or productthat is going to help solve a
health care need.
They're not often enlightened onthe fact that you just don't go
straight to an employer andsell your thing and it gets
plugged in and then the employertells all their employees how
(04:41):
wonderful they are.
You typically have to bring theconsultant into the
conversation early on.
They're helping make thosedecisions, and so that's a
two-step sales process and then,once you get plugged in, that's
just the beginning.
From there you've got to createpowerful messaging visuals,
explainer videos that reallyhelp drive the engagement,
(05:04):
because, to your point,employees are so overwhelmed
with everything, life in general.
But at the end of the day, weknow that old marketing
principle, the rule of sevenonce somebody starts to see
something multiple times, theystart to understand that it is
something that they need to payattention to, and so that's one.
(05:24):
And then, like I said, we usepeople to drive the marketing
messages.
We have two different types ofadvocacy clinical advocacy and
benefits advocacy.
So, as those imply, either usingclinicians- to help deliver the
message, coupled with marketingtactics, or we use exceptional
(05:44):
concierge, high-tech people tohelp educate and explain and
walk someone through the processof this thing that's been made
available to them that's thebest thing since sliced bread
but they don't understand how touse.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Why is having somebody to hold your hand
important?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, there are three statistics that are also kind
of our North Star, if you will,at changing, not moving towards,
and that is there was a recentstudy that was released, and 68%
of participating employersreported that they feel that
(06:22):
benefits are underutilized bytheir employees.
Couple that with the fact thatonly 12% of the US adult
population is healthcareliterate.
And then the third stat thesaddest of all is that medical
billing is one of the primarycauses of personal bankruptcy in
our country.
So you've got employers thatare offering great things to
(06:44):
people that don't understandthem, and even if they did, or
don't know that they'reavailable, and even if they did,
wouldn't know necessarily howto use them, and it's
bankrupting everybody, employersand employees alike.
And so and you and I both youknow we love, we love written
word, we love, you know, we lovelanguage, and those are great.
(07:04):
But the people again that needthe most help feel typically
sick, scared, alone andborderline broke, and they need
a friend.
And so we deliver that.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
And that's.
You know we're having, as youare, I'm sure, a lot of
conversations around.
I mean I'm having them in mypractice, I'm sure you are About
AI and what role AI can play.
And you mean I'm having them inmy practice, I'm sure you are
about AI and what role AI canplay, and you know what we're
telling people is that AI isgreat but at least at the moment
, it doesn't have a lot ofsituational awareness, it's not
personalized, so it comes off,it can come off as being
(07:38):
inauthentic, and the one thingit can't do that you deal in and
that we help clients with isstrategy.
You know, if you, if you giveit an email, that you wrote that
.
That is basically you know,chuck, you, farley, I don't ever
want to talk to you again untilI make it nice.
It will do that, but I thinkyou're right, that human part of
it is really important.
Do you find that once employeeskind of start getting used to
(08:01):
the fact that they've gotsomebody to help their hand,
they engage more and they'remore compliant?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
I mean, you think, if yourchild has just been diagnosed
with some rare disease, first ofall you're probably not going
to call an 800 number to getinformation.
Or you may go to the World WideWeb, but you're not going to
call the.
you know the back of yourinsurance cards 800 number and
ask to speak, but again, bymarrying marketing principles
(08:30):
with clinical outreach for ourteam.
When we're plugged in, you'vealready seen the face of the
person that is assigned to you.
You know them, you've heardtheir voice, you've watched
their explainer video on whatyou know what a balance bill is
or how to navigate preferredversus non-preferred drugs at
the pharmacy, and so you trustthem and we say trust equals
(08:54):
influence.
And so when somebody calls, yousay trust equals influence.
And so when somebody calls you,because we do use.
So, going back to AI, it's atremendous resource for data,
data warehousing, datacollection.
When you're able to identifypeople that need help and then
call them and say I'm here foryou, I can help you.
And here's how.
And when you go to the doctornext week, here are the 10
(09:14):
things you need to ask.
Go to the doctor next week.
Here are the 10 things.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You need to ask who doesn't want that.
There's a lot of talk sincewe're on the AI subject for a
little while and then we'll moveon there's a lot of talk about
agentic AIs, where when somebodycalls into whatever number
they've got on their card or inthe app or whatever they're
using to contact, they'reactually talking to a bot, and
some of them have gotten scarygood.
(09:40):
Do you see the replacement, atsome point, of human beings in
the process?
Do you think that there willalways be a desire for human
beings to connect with otherhuman beings?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, I hope that there is never a world that we
live in where humans don't wantto connect with other humans.
And you know, really, david,what you're describing is that
reactive approach.
Something has happened and Ineed to go somewhere, and that's
drastically different than theprinciples we hold to be true,
and that is I called you first,I reached out to you first.
(10:14):
If you call me, you're callingme back, but that's not.
We don't live by that.
We're not waiting for people tocall in Now, do they?
Sure, sometimes.
But the people that we workwith and the groups that we work
with, we're calling you.
Once you, you know, once youjoin the team, we're one of the
first calls you receive to saywelcome aboard.
And let me walk you through allof this.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's huge and because people oftentimes, even
if they have resources andsomebody hasn't reached out to
them, they're not comfortable.
They're not sure exactly, gee,if I call this number, what's
going to happen and whatnot.
So you're making friends beforeyou need them.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I know you also help with enrollment and trying to
make that process easier.
There are loads of againsystems out there to do that,
but there aren't loads of humanswho really understand it.
What are the things that, ifyou're looking to help enroll a
group, what are the things thatan advisor should be looking for
?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well.
So, first and foremost, I'll go, I'm going to continue to go
back and beat my communication,educational marketing
communications drum, and that isif all you're walking in there
with is an open enrollment guideor some.
I mean, some of these groupsare only doing summary plan
design these days, but you knowyou're just doing a guide.
(11:32):
You will never you have missedthe mark in spades before you
even got off the start line.
It requires a thoughtfulyear-long communication plan so
that, again, this rule of seventhat employees are able to see,
understand, learn about thingswell before they need them.
(11:54):
So the other is and there'snothing wrong with this, but
just in transparency, how we'redifferent than carrier call
banks, for example.
Well, clearly, they'retypically there, but on behalf
of one of the carriers asopposed to for our team, we
(12:16):
explain, or spend just as muchtime explaining the medical plan
and talking through.
You know, do you have ateenager that's going to?
I guess these days it's apreteen that needs braces in a
couple of years.
And how do we plan for that, asit is selling a voluntary
product?
So that's another big for abroker, understanding that you
(12:43):
have an opportunity to reallyeducate people on how to be good
stewards of not only their ownmoney but the plan's money.
And that may sound crass andcapitalistic, but employers need
that right now.
They need you to be theirpartner in helping them watch
the bottom line.
So that starts with educatingand driving engagement
appropriately through theirpopulation.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
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And now back to ourconversation.
I'm an old TPA, so I've kind ofalways had this fiduciary
mindset, but most people don't,and certainly plans don't.
(14:49):
But with the lawsuits that havebeen floating around the last
couple of years and are becomingmore prevalent, it's really a
plan in a self-fundedenvironment.
It's a plan's fiduciaryresponsibility to make sure that
their employees are using thetools and understand them and
thereby make good use of theplan's assets and resources.
Have you had a pickup ininterest about that based on
(15:13):
those kinds of new fiduciaryconversations?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yes, yes and no, I mean.
Thankfully, the kinds of groupsthat are attracted to us are
the ones that truly care abouthelping their people understand
their plan.
You know, I still think thatwe're just on the cutting edge
(15:37):
of this fiduciary discussion,even though it's been around for
quite some time.
I feel like we're just startingto see, in the self-funded
space, employers really clicking.
That oh wait, that means me,that means I'm responsible, and
so I do hope and expect thatover the course of the next
couple of years, that, yes, thatwill play into it.
But you know, over the past fewyears, for us it has been these
(16:00):
employers that are self-fundedthat need help guiding their
people.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I know one of the things that you also help
advisors with for their clientsis kind of sorting through this
myriad of point solutions.
How do you do that, what kindof challenges are you seeing and
how do you help resolve those?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Well, thank you for asking, because that's one of
our newest offerings and thatcame through the pandemic.
We saw, as we were helping buildbrand for different solutions,
that there was this gapingopportunity and it allowed us to
build a platform called theGranite List.
(16:37):
And the Granite List does forthe Point Solution Arena what
OpenTable might do forrestaurants or TripAdvisor, for
hotels, backed with a communityfocus or an engagement community
platform.
And we did that because, again,drawing from my personal
experience being married to abenefits consultant, seeing that
(17:00):
they are inundated withhundreds of emails every week
from every solution out theretrying to get their attention
and they're supposed to beselling and they're supposed to
know what the next best thing isthat's coming out, but it's
impossible and they simply don'thave the bandwidth to take
(17:23):
every demo call that comes theirway.
And so we built the GraniteList to allow the solutions that
were entering the marketplacethat maybe didn't have the big
budgets of, you know, an Optum,another PBM that's coming out,
to level that playing field andput them in front of the buyers
during what we call point ofinterest meaning.
(17:45):
I'm a benefits consultant, I'mcurious about what PBMs are out
there.
I can go to the old Google boxand peck away and go to all
their pages, or I can go to aconsolidated platform that
allows me to search and sourcethe ones that might be best for
this particular group.
So we built that to really kindof shorten the curve of
(18:07):
learning.
But we also, because of who weare, decided that it had to have
an educational component, andso we produce a tremendous
amount of content on behalf ofthe solutions that are part of
the Granite List to help educatebenefits leaders on what they
need to know now and what's next.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's huge.
So if I'm a point solution, Icome to you and I say I want to
be part of this.
You do an assessment and try tofigure out what's necessary in
order to take their solution.
Speak and translate it intoEnglish that mere morals will
understand.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
We do offer that.
But if you're a solution, youdon't even have to come to me.
You just go to thegranitlistcomand if you're confident in what
you're doing and you feel likeyou don't need any additional
help, you can create a profilefor no charge on the site.
So the site is free to use.
(19:05):
Now we do have marketingpackages where we allow for
extra support and help withmessaging and whatnot, but at
base level it is open to anyone,not the employee I you want to
clarify.
It's not designed for.
This is the one thing.
That isn't.
It's intended to drive employeeengagement ultimately.
But here this is a platformbuilt primarily for the benefits
(19:26):
leader benefits, consultant, hrworld.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And we'll put a link to that in the show notes so
that if you want to reach outand you want to learn more about
it, you know you'll know whereto do that.
We've got a couple of minutesleft as we kind of wrap up.
Where do you see things goingin the next couple of years?
I mean there's been a ton ofchange, especially, arguably,
since ACA, but it seems likethat rate of change is just
(19:52):
increasing.
For advisors, what do you seecoming down the pike?
What does the landscape looklike from?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
where you and your company sit.
Well, there are two buzzwordsthat I'll continue to ride the
train on transparency andpersonalization.
Now, when I say transparency notjust price, certainly price
transparency, transparency inhow to use the thing I mean.
I think that that's part of whywe've gotten to this mess and
(20:21):
where we are today is thathealth care is confusing to the
average American, and so there'snot a transparent way to access
and use it, and so we are soproud to be playing a role in
that and helping point solutionsbecome more transparent, help
with driving employee engagement.
Personalization that's theother wonderful thing about
(20:43):
especially the self-funded spaceis that there is this
opportunity to bring in I'm notadvocating for this, but you
could bring in 40 differentpoint solutions if you wanted,
based on your population's need,and we've never been able you
know, never has there been atime in our country where plans
could be designed that way, andso, really.
But to get there, you have tounderstand who the people are
(21:05):
that you're trying to serve, andso that continual look at high
touch personalization, I believe, will be a driver continue to
be a driver for employeeengagement across all spectrums
of our industry.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
There's still a tremendous amount of work to do,
because that stat that youquoted earlier about only 12% of
Americans are healthcareliterate.
That comes from our friends atthe Kaiser Family Foundation and
that number hasn't changed, ingood grief.
I can't remember how long Yepand I've been at this a long,
long time Three or four years,it's.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I can't remember how long Yep and I've been at this a
long, long time, three or fouryears.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I can tell you which groups the gray hairs are.
So kudos to you for doing this.
Sally Pace, CEO at ConnectHealthcare Collaboration.
Sally, thanks so much for areally interesting conversation.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, David, I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I want to give a quick shout out to our sponsor
and our producer, Hatcher Media.
Hey, if you need podcastproduction or professional
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Visit him at hatchermedianet.
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Speaker 2 (22:16):
This Shift Shapers podcast is copyrighted content
and may not be reproduced inwhole or in part without the
express written permission ofShift Shapers Solutions LLC.
Copyright 2024.
Connecting with customers is table stakes, but
adding a streamlined enrollmentprocess, increasing engagement
and finding the best pointsolutions, that's the winning
hand.
The question is how do you dothat?
We'll find out on this episodeof Shift Shapers.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Change either energizes or paralyzes.
The choice is yours.
This is the Shift Shaperspodcast, bringing the employee
benefits industry interviewswith individuals and companies
who are shaping the industryshifts.
And now here's your host, davidSaltzman.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And to help us answer that, we have invited Sally
Pace, ceo at Connect HealthcareCollaboration.
Welcome, sally, thanks forbeing here.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thanks for having me on, david, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's our pleasure.
So we usually ask people abouttheir background.
How do you get to be doing whatyou're doing?
Because for most of us in thisbusiness, it's not a straight
line.
So what's your backstory?
How do you find yourself doingthis kind of crazy work?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Absolutely Well.
First, the simple answer isI've been married into it for 28
years.
The professional side of it isthat I didn't dream of being in
the employee benefits industry.
Healthcare insurance lump themall together.
When I was in college, I was anEnglish major and I loved the
(01:21):
written word and the spoken word.
Those of you that know me knowhow much I do love to talk and I
have made a career over thecourse of my career, working for
companies like HGTV, autozone,fhn Financial one of you know in
the fixed income capitalmarkets arena, being put in
positions where if I could putsomething into a term that I
(01:42):
could understand, then anyonecould.
If I could put something into aterm that I could understand,
then anyone could.
That came most clear right outof the gate at HGTV, because at
the time it was the fastestgrowing cable network in the
United States actually in theworld and I loved all of the
design projects that were shown.
So naturally, I was put incharge of helping communicate
(02:03):
the building and remodelingprojects.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Got to live out what I've learned.
But the other side of it ishaving been married to a
benefits consultant for 28 yearsnext month.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you To the same person too.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, that's important.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
That's right that I've seen you know this shift,
if you will in this emergence ofall these great solutions that
are transparent, that are niche,that are really doing wonderful
things, and there was anopportunity there to help them
share their story, build theirbrand and drive employee
(02:41):
engagement.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It really is and that's key.
And you know our practices aredifferent, although we both we
work in different ends of thesame kind of marketing on more
message or more execution butit's incredibly important,
especially if you want to standout and because there's lots of
folks out there applying thetrade these days.
So if you had to focus in on,like one major problem when you
(03:02):
started, what was that problemthat you set out to solve?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well, it is solely everything we do is about
ultimately driving employeeengagement, and so that is our
laser focus across all ourbusiness lines.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
So how do you do that ?
I mean, it's as plans havegotten more complex and
employees have gotten more forlack of a nicer term fed up with
medical insurance especially.
How do you do that?
What's the kind of things thatyou look for?
What should other people bekind of keying in on?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, you know, we've seen over the past let's call
it five years kind ofpre-pandemic this surge, and
then certainly post-pandemic,this reliance on AI and
platforms and digital tools, andthose are wonderful, but at the
end of the day, particularlythe people that need the most
(03:57):
help within a plan need a personto hold their hand, and so
we've built a couple of businesslines around that and I'd love
to tell you a little bit about.
You know how we do that indifferent areas.
You know when we think aboutthese point solutions that are
in the marketplace and you knowthis just like I do.
You've got these reallywell-intentioned say, a
(04:19):
clinician that has decidedthey're going to build some
fabulous platform or productthat is going to help solve a
health care need.
They're not often enlightened onthe fact that you just don't go
straight to an employer andsell your thing and it gets
plugged in and then the employertells all their employees how
(04:41):
wonderful they are.
You typically have to bring theconsultant into the
conversation early on.
They're helping make thosedecisions, and so that's a
two-step sales process and then,once you get plugged in, that's
just the beginning.
From there you've got to createpowerful messaging visuals,
explainer videos that reallyhelp drive the engagement,
(05:04):
because, to your point,employees are so overwhelmed
with everything, life in general.
But at the end of the day, weknow that old marketing
principle, the rule of sevenonce somebody starts to see
something multiple times, theystart to understand that it is
something that they need to payattention to, and so that's one.
(05:24):
And then, like I said, we usepeople to drive the marketing
messages.
We have two different types ofadvocacy clinical advocacy and
benefits advocacy.
So, as those imply, either usingclinicians- to help deliver the
message, coupled with marketingtactics, or we use exceptional
(05:44):
concierge, high-tech people tohelp educate and explain and
walk someone through the processof this thing that's been made
available to them that's thebest thing since sliced bread
but they don't understand how touse.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Why is having somebody to hold your hand
important?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Well, there are three statistics that are also kind
of our North Star, if you will,at changing, not moving towards,
and that is there was a recentstudy that was released, and 68%
of participating employersreported that they feel that
(06:22):
benefits are underutilized bytheir employees.
Couple that with the fact thatonly 12% of the US adult
population is healthcareliterate.
And then the third stat thesaddest of all is that medical
billing is one of the primarycauses of personal bankruptcy in
our country.
So you've got employers thatare offering great things to
(06:44):
people that don't understandthem, and even if they did, or
don't know that they'reavailable, and even if they did,
wouldn't know necessarily howto use them, and it's
bankrupting everybody, employersand employees alike.
And so and you and I both youknow we love, we love written
word, we love, you know, we lovelanguage, and those are great.
(07:04):
But the people again that needthe most help feel typically
sick, scared, alone andborderline broke, and they need
a friend.
And so we deliver that.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
And that's.
You know we're having, as youare, I'm sure, a lot of
conversations around.
I mean I'm having them in mypractice, I'm sure you are About
AI and what role AI can play.
And you mean I'm having them inmy practice, I'm sure you are
about AI and what role AI canplay, and you know what we're
telling people is that AI isgreat but at least at the moment
, it doesn't have a lot ofsituational awareness, it's not
personalized, so it comes off,it can come off as being
(07:38):
inauthentic, and the one thingit can't do that you deal in and
that we help clients with isstrategy.
You know, if you, if you giveit an email, that you wrote that
.
That is basically you know,chuck, you, farley, I don't ever
want to talk to you again untilI make it nice.
It will do that, but I thinkyou're right, that human part of
it is really important.
Do you find that once employeeskind of start getting used to
(08:01):
the fact that they've gotsomebody to help their hand,
they engage more and they'remore compliant?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
I mean, you think, if yourchild has just been diagnosed
with some rare disease, first ofall you're probably not going
to call an 800 number to getinformation.
Or you may go to the World WideWeb, but you're not going to
call the.
you know the back of yourinsurance cards 800 number and
ask to speak, but again, bymarrying marketing principles
(08:30):
with clinical outreach for ourteam.
When we're plugged in, you'vealready seen the face of the
person that is assigned to you.
You know them, you've heardtheir voice, you've watched
their explainer video on whatyou know what a balance bill is
or how to navigate preferredversus non-preferred drugs at
the pharmacy, and so you trustthem and we say trust equals
(08:54):
influence.
And so when somebody calls, yousay trust equals influence.
And so when somebody calls you,because we do use.
So, going back to AI, it's atremendous resource for data,
data warehousing, datacollection.
When you're able to identifypeople that need help and then
call them and say I'm here foryou, I can help you.
And here's how.
And when you go to the doctornext week, here are the 10
(09:14):
things you need to ask.
Go to the doctor next week.
Here are the 10 things.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You need to ask who doesn't want that.
There's a lot of talk sincewe're on the AI subject for a
little while and then we'll moveon there's a lot of talk about
agentic AIs, where when somebodycalls into whatever number
they've got on their card or inthe app or whatever they're
using to contact, they'reactually talking to a bot, and
some of them have gotten scarygood.
(09:40):
Do you see the replacement, atsome point, of human beings in
the process?
Do you think that there willalways be a desire for human
beings to connect with otherhuman beings?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, I hope that there is never a world that we
live in where humans don't wantto connect with other humans.
And you know, really, david,what you're describing is that
reactive approach.
Something has happened and Ineed to go somewhere, and that's
drastically different than theprinciples we hold to be true,
and that is I called you first,I reached out to you first.
(10:14):
If you call me, you're callingme back, but that's not.
We don't live by that.
We're not waiting for people tocall in Now, do they?
Sure, sometimes.
But the people that we workwith and the groups that we work
with, we're calling you.
Once you, you know, once youjoin the team, we're one of the
first calls you receive to saywelcome aboard.
And let me walk you through allof this.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's huge and because people oftentimes, even
if they have resources andsomebody hasn't reached out to
them, they're not comfortable.
They're not sure exactly, gee,if I call this number, what's
going to happen and whatnot.
So you're making friends beforeyou need them.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I know you also help with enrollment and trying to
make that process easier.
There are loads of againsystems out there to do that,
but there aren't loads of humanswho really understand it.
What are the things that, ifyou're looking to help enroll a
group, what are the things thatan advisor should be looking for
?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well.
So, first and foremost, I'll go, I'm going to continue to go
back and beat my communication,educational marketing
communications drum, and that isif all you're walking in there
with is an open enrollment guideor some.
I mean, some of these groupsare only doing summary plan
design these days, but you knowyou're just doing a guide.
(11:32):
You will never you have missedthe mark in spades before you
even got off the start line.
It requires a thoughtfulyear-long communication plan so
that, again, this rule of seventhat employees are able to see,
understand, learn about thingswell before they need them.
(11:54):
So the other is and there'snothing wrong with this, but
just in transparency, how we'redifferent than carrier call
banks, for example.
Well, clearly, they'retypically there, but on behalf
of one of the carriers asopposed to for our team, we
(12:16):
explain, or spend just as muchtime explaining the medical plan
and talking through.
You know, do you have ateenager that's going to?
I guess these days it's apreteen that needs braces in a
couple of years.
And how do we plan for that, asit is selling a voluntary
product?
So that's another big for abroker, understanding that you
(12:43):
have an opportunity to reallyeducate people on how to be good
stewards of not only their ownmoney but the plan's money.
And that may sound crass andcapitalistic, but employers need
that right now.
They need you to be theirpartner in helping them watch
the bottom line.
So that starts with educatingand driving engagement
appropriately through theirpopulation.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
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And now back to ourconversation.
I'm an old TPA, so I've kind ofalways had this fiduciary
mindset, but most people don't,and certainly plans don't.
(14:49):
But with the lawsuits that havebeen floating around the last
couple of years and are becomingmore prevalent, it's really a
plan in a self-fundedenvironment.
It's a plan's fiduciaryresponsibility to make sure that
their employees are using thetools and understand them and
thereby make good use of theplan's assets and resources.
Have you had a pickup ininterest about that based on
(15:13):
those kinds of new fiduciaryconversations?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yes, yes and no, I mean.
Thankfully, the kinds of groupsthat are attracted to us are
the ones that truly care abouthelping their people understand
their plan.
You know, I still think thatwe're just on the cutting edge
(15:37):
of this fiduciary discussion,even though it's been around for
quite some time.
I feel like we're just startingto see, in the self-funded
space, employers really clicking.
That oh wait, that means me,that means I'm responsible, and
so I do hope and expect thatover the course of the next
couple of years, that, yes, thatwill play into it.
But you know, over the past fewyears, for us it has been these
(16:00):
employers that are self-fundedthat need help guiding their
people.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I know one of the things that you also help
advisors with for their clientsis kind of sorting through this
myriad of point solutions.
How do you do that, what kindof challenges are you seeing and
how do you help resolve those?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Well, thank you for asking, because that's one of
our newest offerings and thatcame through the pandemic.
We saw, as we were helping buildbrand for different solutions,
that there was this gapingopportunity and it allowed us to
build a platform called theGranite List.
(16:37):
And the Granite List does forthe Point Solution Arena what
OpenTable might do forrestaurants or TripAdvisor, for
hotels, backed with a communityfocus or an engagement community
platform.
And we did that because, again,drawing from my personal
experience being married to abenefits consultant, seeing that
(17:00):
they are inundated withhundreds of emails every week
from every solution out theretrying to get their attention
and they're supposed to beselling and they're supposed to
know what the next best thing isthat's coming out, but it's
impossible and they simply don'thave the bandwidth to take
(17:23):
every demo call that comes theirway.
And so we built the GraniteList to allow the solutions that
were entering the marketplacethat maybe didn't have the big
budgets of, you know, an Optum,another PBM that's coming out,
to level that playing field andput them in front of the buyers
during what we call point ofinterest meaning.
(17:45):
I'm a benefits consultant, I'mcurious about what PBMs are out
there.
I can go to the old Google boxand peck away and go to all
their pages, or I can go to aconsolidated platform that
allows me to search and sourcethe ones that might be best for
this particular group.
So we built that to really kindof shorten the curve of
(18:07):
learning.
But we also, because of who weare, decided that it had to have
an educational component, andso we produce a tremendous
amount of content on behalf ofthe solutions that are part of
the Granite List to help educatebenefits leaders on what they
need to know now and what's next.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's huge.
So if I'm a point solution, Icome to you and I say I want to
be part of this.
You do an assessment and try tofigure out what's necessary in
order to take their solution.
Speak and translate it intoEnglish that mere morals will
understand.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
We do offer that.
But if you're a solution, youdon't even have to come to me.
You just go to thegranitlistcomand if you're confident in what
you're doing and you feel likeyou don't need any additional
help, you can create a profilefor no charge on the site.
So the site is free to use.
(19:05):
Now we do have marketingpackages where we allow for
extra support and help withmessaging and whatnot, but at
base level it is open to anyone,not the employee I you want to
clarify.
It's not designed for.
This is the one thing.
That isn't.
It's intended to drive employeeengagement ultimately.
But here this is a platformbuilt primarily for the benefits
(19:26):
leader benefits, consultant, hrworld.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And we'll put a link to that in the show notes so
that if you want to reach outand you want to learn more about
it, you know you'll know whereto do that.
We've got a couple of minutesleft as we kind of wrap up.
Where do you see things goingin the next couple of years?
I mean there's been a ton ofchange, especially, arguably,
since ACA, but it seems likethat rate of change is just
(19:52):
increasing.
For advisors, what do you seecoming down the pike?
What does the landscape looklike from?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
where you and your company sit.
Well, there are two buzzwordsthat I'll continue to ride the
train on transparency andpersonalization.
Now, when I say transparency notjust price, certainly price
transparency, transparency inhow to use the thing I mean.
I think that that's part of whywe've gotten to this mess and
(20:21):
where we are today is thathealth care is confusing to the
average American, and so there'snot a transparent way to access
and use it, and so we are soproud to be playing a role in
that and helping point solutionsbecome more transparent, help
with driving employee engagement.
Personalization that's theother wonderful thing about
(20:43):
especially the self-funded spaceis that there is this
opportunity to bring in I'm notadvocating for this, but you
could bring in 40 differentpoint solutions if you wanted,
based on your population's need,and we've never been able you
know, never has there been atime in our country where plans
could be designed that way, andso, really.
But to get there, you have tounderstand who the people are
(21:05):
that you're trying to serve, andso that continual look at high
touch personalization, I believe, will be a driver continue to
be a driver for employeeengagement across all spectrums
of our industry.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
There's still a tremendous amount of work to do,
because that stat that youquoted earlier about only 12% of
Americans are healthcareliterate.
That comes from our friends atthe Kaiser Family Foundation and
that number hasn't changed, ingood grief.
I can't remember how long Yepand I've been at this a long,
long time Three or four years,it's.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I can't remember how long Yep and I've been at this a
long, long time, three or fouryears.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I can tell you which groups the gray hairs are.
So kudos to you for doing this.
Sally Pace, CEO at ConnectHealthcare Collaboration.
Sally, thanks so much for areally interesting conversation.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, David, I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I want to give a quick shout out to our sponsor
and our producer, Hatcher Media.
Hey, if you need podcastproduction or professional
graphic design, Josh Hatcher isthe expert to contact For more
information.
Visit him at hatchermedianet.
That's H-A-T-C-H-E-R medianet.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
This Shift Shapers podcast is copyrighted content
and may not be reproduced inwhole or in part without the
express written permission ofShift Shapers Solutions LLC.
Copyright 2024.
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