August 5, 2025 • 18 mins
Recorded live at the Ascend Conference in Salt Lake City, this episode of ShiftShapers features John Troutman, Vice President of Business Development at Mind Club America. Host David A. Saltzman and John discuss the “mutual mystification” surrounding mental health solutions—and how employers and advisors can start cutting through the noise with real access, real engagement, and real outcomes.
From personal burnout to a professional mission, John shares how his experience as a former pastor helped shape his drive to help a million people get the mental health support they need. The conversation unpacks access issues, poor utilization reporting, stigma, and the vital importance of employer-led engagement.
🤖 Sponsored by BenePower
BenePower is an AI-powered platform helping advisors build high-impact, self-insured health plans quickly and seamlessly. By integrating best-in-class point solutions and eliminating inefficiencies, BenePower reduces costs, improves member outcomes, and positions advisors as industry leaders.
🔗 Learn more at BenePower.com
🔑 Key Takeaways from This Episode
📌 Access Delays Are Still the Norm
Even with growing awareness, many plans make employees wait 3–5 months for help. Mind Club offers care within 2 business days.
📌 Engagement Starts at the Top
Mental health solutions are most effective when leadership participates first and normalizes use among employees.
📌 Mental Health Month ≠ Mental Health Action
Awareness isn’t enough. Employers must embrace solutions that proactively support emotional well-being year-round.
📌 Most Utilization Reports Are Useless
John explains why vague or absent reporting leaves employers in the dark about what they’re actually paying for.
📌 Proactive Care Beats Reactive Cleanup
Mind Club encourages regular mental fitness with assessments, gamification, and behavioral nudges before crisis hits.
⏱️ In This Episode
00:00 Live from Ascend: Introducing John Troutman
02:00 Burnout, personal healing, and a mission to help a million people
05:30 What is “mutual mystification” in mental health?
08:00 The real-world problems with EAPs and plan access
10:30 Access in two days—not months
12:00 Predictive vs. reactive mental health models
15:00 How Mind Club’s app keeps users engaged
17:30 Messaging employees: Start with leadership
20:00 Why reporting and data transparency matter
23:00 How to start the mental health conversation with skeptical employers
27:00 What employers want: happier, healthier teams
30:00 Looking ahead: personalization, AI, and robust networks
34:00 Mind Club’s flexibility across funding models
36:00 Final thoughts on solving the mental health crisis
This episode is sponsored by Benepower, the platform of choice for a modern benefits experience. Benepower is an AI-powered benefits platform offering access to top products and services, enabling consultants and employers to create customized plans, optimize usage, and measure effectiveness. www.benepower.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Change either energizes or paralyzes.
The choice is yours.
This is the Shift Shaperspodcast, bringing the employee
benefits industry interviewswith individuals and companies
who are shaping the industryshifts.
And now here's your host, davidSaltzman.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hi, we're in kind of an unusual location.
We are broadcasting from, orrecording from, I should say,
the Ascend Conference in SaltLake City, utah, and we're
talking to some folks who arehere because all the industry's
best and brightest are around.
And we're privileged today tobe talking to my buddy, john
Troutman.
John is Vice President ofBusiness Development at Mind
(00:44):
Club America and we're going totalk about what he calls the
mutual mystification in mentalhealth.
Welcome, john.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Thanks for being here .
Thank you so much for allowingme to be here, dave.
It's an honor and always greatto see you, and it's a great
privilege to talk about mentalhealth here at Ascend.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, thank you and I'll forego all of the obvious
jokes.
Well, thank you and I'll foregoall of the obvious jokes.
So we usually like to ask ourguests how did you start doing
what you're doing?
How did you get to be doingwhat you're doing today?
How'd that happen?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, great question, and that's a story.
So I was a pastor for about 20years, but before that I grew up
in a home where my father grewup on a dairy farm.
My other grandfather from mymother's side worked in a steel
mill.
So probably goes without sayingI was taught workaholic
principles from very early on.
Both my parents worked veryheavily and were very busy, so
(01:33):
my grandmother would show up atour house on the weekends
getting us out of the houseearly, pulling weeds in the
garden.
The list goes on there.
But I learned and embraced earlyon the strong work ethic, but
what I didn't embrace isbalancing that out.
So, being very driven, I didn'tunderstand the power of taking
breaks or pauses.
My job also became a big partof my DNA.
(01:54):
So there and became thechallenge as a pastor was when
is it okay to take a break?
When you're serving people andyou're serving your creator,
your God, when is it okay tostop?
And those were unhealthy yearsand it just took me burning out
(02:17):
severely, quite transparently,to understand that I needed to
get the help that I was tryingto get others when they would
have similar situations.
So it actually cost me aboutsix months of going for intense
counseling, understanding andrequiring behavioral change, of
going for intense counseling,understanding and requiring
behavioral change.
And David, going through thattime, even though dear friends
were trying to help me, theydidn't understand how this
workaholic could now beinanimate, not doing anything.
There are people in thisindustry who today call me the
(02:38):
godfather of GSD and in thosetimes they wouldn't recognize me
.
So, looking back, I don't blamethose folks who could
understand.
But, going through that myself,I came with a decision.
You know what, if I have to gothrough this, I want to leverage
it to make it a bettersituation for others so that
they don't have to go throughwith it.
And I actually committed anumber back in those days and I
(03:00):
was like you know what?
I want to see a million peopleget the help they need with
better mental health.
So that's what I'm passionateabout.
That's why I'm doing what I'mdoing today with my club.
And again, it's an honor to behere to send and talking with
you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, you know, it is amazing or maybe it's not so
amazing how many of our guestsover the last 11 years start
their business with a personalstory.
Something happens and theythink there must be a better way
.
And you know, I tell peopleoften when we talk about our
guests with apologies to SimonSinek, most of our guests don't
start with why.
They start with why not, andthen they go find and build a
(03:35):
better mousetrap.
So it's great to have you here.
So let's talk about this phrasethat I used at the beginning.
What is the mutualmystification in mental health?
It sounds great.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
What does it mean Well, that's great, and again,
I'll be careful on time, perhapsbecause I could go on and on in
different avenues.
But I think it's veryinteresting in an industry where
we have a month set aside formental health awareness, so many
people are talking about mentalhealth in that month.
But I'll be rhetorical here andact like Plato to Aristotle.
What are they doing about that,David?
(04:06):
What decisive actions are theytaking to change the solutions
they're bringing to theiremployer groups?
One of those mystifications isthat there just is no help out
there, that it's just too long.
They can't get timely help whenpeople need it and the carrier
plans are not robust plans.
These networks are overburdened.
(04:27):
It takes too long to see people, especially with medication
management, it's taking onaverage three to five months.
So these are real worldproblems still going on and most
of the networks that are outthere are not good networks.
So the mystification is thereare some networks out there.
Mind Club is one of them.
Certainly there may be others.
(04:50):
I'm not here to talk about mycompetitors, but I'm here to
talk about what we're doing.
I'm proud of it and I'm proudto represent the brand because
we're providing access tocounselors, to the opportunity
to have medication management intwo business days, not months.
We understand the complicationsthat can take place when people
have to wait.
It's difficult enough to getpeople to go to get the help
they need when it's involvingtheir mental health.
(05:11):
Telling them thank you forcoming and setting up an
appointment We'll see you inthree months is not a solution.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So you know, once upon a time I was involved with
a company that helped peopleemployers do their MHPAEA
reporting, and one of the placesthat they inevitably would fail
is access.
Is access a real problem or isthat a red?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
herring.
So again, great question.
And access to care is achallenge for a lot of these
groups because, again, they'reattached to a network that is
not strong enough to handle theemployee load.
And there was that opportunitythose employees who have a need,
and what MindClub does.
Or should I wait to talk aboutthat later?
I can go either way here.
So you're 25 minutes, beautiful.
(05:52):
It's why I'm doing what I'mdoing is because I sat in the
seat of working for an EAPprovider before and one of the
things that frustrated me wasthe fact that we couldn't get
people in to get the help theyneed when they took those action
steps to get help.
And that's one of the thingsthat we do.
Is we, before we take on anygroup and I'm telling all
(06:13):
advisors this we need 90 days.
Certainly, we could probablybuild that network in a much
more timely manner, but justhave that understanding that we
need 90 days to make sure it'sgoing to be robust enough before
we take them on, because Idon't want to be replicating a
problem that exists out there inthese poor carrier networks.
So we're going to look at thatcensus.
We're going to understand wherethey are, the demographics of
(06:33):
that population.
If language is an issue, wewant to make sure that we can
support them at their point ofneed, so that when they reach
out to us, they're not going tohave to wait longer than two
days to see a clinician.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
We've talked oftentimes on the podcast about
predictive modeling and abouthow we've basically run an
industry for years, looking outthe rearview mirror.
A lot of times mental health isreactive or care for mental
health is reactive.
Are there ways that it can beproactive, and what do those
look?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
like Great question and again, that was one of my
pain points at an EAP providerwas the fact that the key
statement was we're there whenyou need us.
But the reality when it comesto mental health is there are
many things a person can do toinvest in their mental health so
that they don't need you lateron, so that you don't need to
have a meeting with a clinician.
(07:26):
So cognitive behavioral therapyis a big part of that process.
And when people can just simplytake a very brief assessment
and get feedback to understandwhat their baseline is or where
they are today and also takesome steps to improve their
mental health over time, it's nodifferent than going to the gym
and saying today I can't benchpress 100 pounds, but over the
(07:48):
course of time, if I add theseweights on, I will be able to do
X amount of weights.
That's what we're doing in themental health space is by
helping people understand,initially through an assessment
three to five minutes what theirbaseline is, where are they
today as their base, and thenworking with them so that they
put out those steps, thoseappropriate measures, and then
we engage them through our app,through also our platform, which
(08:11):
could be text messaging emailsencouraging them, using
gamification and also rewards toinspire them to keep taking
that action so that they don'tfollow in my footsteps and burn
out later because they didn'trealize what was going on.
I didn't know I was burning out, I just know I needed to show
up every day and one day I wokeup and I couldn't move.
So those preventative measuresof engaging a tool it's actually
(08:36):
going to be fun and inspiring,encouraging you along life's
journey, and that individual'sputting in that data is very
beneficial in being preventativeand proactive as opposed to
reactionary.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And now a word from our sponsor.
You're not just an advisor,you're a game changer.
Forget cookie-cutter cookiecutter off the shelf solutions.
That's yesterday's news.
It's 2025 and it's all aboutdelivering bold, custom crafted
plans that truly make adifference.
At the core is a razor sharp,self-insured framework, but the
(09:12):
real magic that's in the highimpact point solutions.
You strategically layer in toslash costs and supercharge
member outcomes.
But let's be real, that's wherethe headaches start.
Hours wasted sifting throughendless options, wrestling with
(09:33):
integration issues and fightingdata-sharing roadblocks.
It's a time suck and it'sholding you back Not anymore.
Meet Benapower, the AI-poweredgame changer that builds killer
plans in minutes, not hours.
Benapower doesn't just curatethe best point solutions.
It makes them work togetherseamlessly, streamlining
communication and drivingcollaboration like never before.
(09:54):
With Benapower, you're armedwith an end-to-end AI-enabled
solution that makes youunstoppable.
Spend less time piecingtogether a patchwork plan and
more time selling your clients,get unmatched ROI and you become
the go-to advisor thateveryone's talking about.
Want to take your game to thenext level?
(10:15):
Visit Benapowerai or schedule ademo at info at Benapowercom.
Find your power with Benapower.
And now back to ourconversation employees to help
(10:39):
them get around, because therestill is a stigma around
admitting that you have aproblem and going and getting
help.
What kinds of things have tocome to the table for an
employer to help their employees?
Because it's got to be atremendous cost, not only the
medical cost, but theproductivity cost presenteeism,
absenteeism et cetera has got tobe huge.
So how do you help employeesmake that turn or turn that?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
corner, absolutely.
And another great question.
So communication is soimportant, but the different
types of communication, where isthat communication coming from?
So what we do right out of thegate is we have a kickoff call
with the entire management team.
We ask them to take the threeto five minute assessment.
We want them to experience whattheir employees are going to
experience.
(11:18):
So that number one, they can sayto the employee population hey,
this is something that we'vedone.
It's very simple, it's not long, but it's worth it for your
mental health, please follow us.
And we have found that when theleadership does that first the
employee, there's a greaterresponse for the employees to
participate in that and it makesthat employee conversation we
(11:38):
have ongoing much easier to haveand much more supportive
because they know it's a saferenvironment for them to get the
help they need.
Even though everything is HIPAAcompliant and confidentiality,
people are still concerned aboutthe HR person knowing, or
whoever, if they have a mentalhealth issue.
So we start with a leadershipfirst so that they know they've
(11:59):
already forged ahead and takenit themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So let's dial back a couple of steps.
Perfect, I'm a benefit advisor.
How do I start having thisconversation with an employer
who is already up to theireyeballs in point solutions and
trying to figure out how not tospend tons of money in addition
to what they're already spendingand yet attract and retain the
kind of employees that they want?
(12:23):
How do I have that?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
conversation.
What do I say?
Yeah, I guess one of thequestions is how you know, are
you concerned?
Are you genuinely concernedabout the mental health of your
employee population?
A lot of people, a lot ofemployers, do not want to pay
for mental health because ofwhat's going on.
Again, this falls under theumbrella of mutual mystification
.
People are paying X amount ofdollars per employee per month
(12:47):
and the reporting is not great.
And why am I saying that?
Utilization?
What does that even mean inmental health?
If you ask eight differentmental health solution providers
, you might get eight differentanswers right.
So we avoid that conversationand I would avoid that as well
of asking the employer are youpassionate about your population
when it comes to mental health?
(13:07):
If so, would you be open toengaging a provider that will do
the heavy lift and that'sengaging your employees on the
front end, not waiting for thesethings to happen.
That's engaging your employeeson the front end, not waiting
for these things to happen,because over the course of time,
we can get those results bythem putting in their own data.
So I think that's a big part ofit is most people are willing
to say they're willing toparticipate in Mental Health
(13:28):
Month right and mental healthawareness.
But are you really willing tolet a group come in and access
the appropriate data so that wecan engage them on a regular
basis?
Because you know a lot ofpeople ask me what's a good size
group?
That's not a question to beasked.
For me, it's a good group forMind Club is those employer
groups that are willing toembrace engagement, because
(13:49):
that's where the results willhappen.
Engagement over time can changebehaviors, can start new habits
and create a healthierpopulation, not just in mental
health but in physical health.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Is part of the conversation With employers what
it's costing them, both hardcosts and soft costs.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That's a great point right there and that could be
from a standalone plan.
Again, I'm not here to throwmud at my competitors, but I
talk to advisors every singleweek and sometimes daily.
They're talking about thousandsof dollars being spent,
sometimes tens of thousands ofdollars a month being spent, and
they don't even know what theutilization is, let alone what
(14:26):
the utilization might mean ifthey were ever given a report.
They literally weren't given areport, and it was a $65,000
bill a month.
So what are they spending on it?
Have they seen any results?
What do the utilization reportssay?
Do they break it down?
Are they getting sessions or issomeone merely going online and
looking up other types ofresources?
(14:47):
I'm not downplaying those otherresources, but we are a mental
health solution.
We are not the bells andwhistles of an EAP that provide
all those other outside circularbenefits that can be beneficial
in life, which they do serve asa benefit, but we are very
serious about mental health andthat is what we do.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
They benefit but we are very serious about mental
health and that is what we do.
So, looking forward, what doyou see happening, both on the
employer base and also withmental health?
Is the crisis in accessibilitygoing to ease off anytime soon?
Is AI going to help?
I mean, what kinds of thingsare you seeing on the horizon?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
We're seeing a lot of things with AI developing that
are helping people on a dailybasis.
I think the employers out therethere's been a big shift.
I think when COVID started therewas a big surge in EAP
providers.
I think the reality is the lackof quality utilization reports
being granular in detail toexplain what that actually means
(15:44):
.
As opposed to X number is yourutilization and that's it.
Employers want to know whatthey're paying per employee
rates for and a lot of them justdon't know because the
utilization reports are so vagueor they're not getting one.
So I think the future isholding a shift towards more
robust solutions because Ibelieve and we are seeing
(16:06):
firsthand employers want to seeresults.
They want to see an increase inemployee morale.
They want not just a healthierpopulation, they want a happier
population.
They want employees to show upknowing that they're glad to be
a part of something and againgoes back to your initial
statement of the why they canfeel that when the employer
backs a solution that truly isgoing to impact their mental
(16:29):
health, not just be a tag on orsomething that's embedded, that
over 50% of the populationdoesn't even know what it is or
how to access it.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And this is an issue, is it not?
Regardless of how the plans arefunded and regardless of what
size the plan is?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Great question.
So, again, at MindClub, we canbolt onto any plan.
It doesn't matter if it's fullyinsured, self-funded, direct
primary care.
We could put boots on theground in the case with working
with community health plans,whether it's DPC or hospital
systems, and I think that's apowerful solution when you're
working with a provider thatsays we are not a cookie cutter.
You tell us what you need, wewant to solve the problem first,
(17:09):
that's what's going to be bestfor you, then that's the way we
need to build it and we go fromthere and that's a great place
to end our conversation fortoday.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
John Troutman, vice President of Business
Development at Mind Club America.
John A, always great to see youand thanks for sharing what you
guys are doing and how you'retrying to help the mental health
crisis in this country.
Thank you so much, david.
I want to give a quick shoutout to our sponsor and our
producer, hatcher Media.
(17:36):
Hey, if you need podcastproduction or professional
graphic design, josh Hatcher isthe expert to contact.
For more information, visit himat HatcherMedianet.
That's H-A-T-C-H-E-R Media dotnet.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
This Shift Shapers podcast is copyrighted content
and may not be reproduced inwhole or in part without the
express written permission ofShift Shapers Solutions LLC.
Copyright 2024.
Change either energizes or paralyzes.
The choice is yours.
This is the Shift Shaperspodcast, bringing the employee
benefits industry interviewswith individuals and companies
who are shaping the industryshifts.
And now here's your host, davidSaltzman.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hi, we're in kind of an unusual location.
We are broadcasting from, orrecording from, I should say,
the Ascend Conference in SaltLake City, utah, and we're
talking to some folks who arehere because all the industry's
best and brightest are around.
And we're privileged today tobe talking to my buddy, john
Troutman.
John is Vice President ofBusiness Development at Mind
(00:44):
Club America and we're going totalk about what he calls the
mutual mystification in mentalhealth.
Welcome, john.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Thanks for being here .
Thank you so much for allowingme to be here, dave.
It's an honor and always greatto see you, and it's a great
privilege to talk about mentalhealth here at Ascend.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, thank you and I'll forego all of the obvious
jokes.
Well, thank you and I'll foregoall of the obvious jokes.
So we usually like to ask ourguests how did you start doing
what you're doing?
How did you get to be doingwhat you're doing today?
How'd that happen?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, great question, and that's a story.
So I was a pastor for about 20years, but before that I grew up
in a home where my father grewup on a dairy farm.
My other grandfather from mymother's side worked in a steel
mill.
So probably goes without sayingI was taught workaholic
principles from very early on.
Both my parents worked veryheavily and were very busy, so
(01:33):
my grandmother would show up atour house on the weekends
getting us out of the houseearly, pulling weeds in the
garden.
The list goes on there.
But I learned and embraced earlyon the strong work ethic, but
what I didn't embrace isbalancing that out.
So, being very driven, I didn'tunderstand the power of taking
breaks or pauses.
My job also became a big partof my DNA.
(01:54):
So there and became thechallenge as a pastor was when
is it okay to take a break?
When you're serving people andyou're serving your creator,
your God, when is it okay tostop?
And those were unhealthy yearsand it just took me burning out
(02:17):
severely, quite transparently,to understand that I needed to
get the help that I was tryingto get others when they would
have similar situations.
So it actually cost me aboutsix months of going for intense
counseling, understanding andrequiring behavioral change, of
going for intense counseling,understanding and requiring
behavioral change.
And David, going through thattime, even though dear friends
were trying to help me, theydidn't understand how this
workaholic could now beinanimate, not doing anything.
There are people in thisindustry who today call me the
(02:38):
godfather of GSD and in thosetimes they wouldn't recognize me
.
So, looking back, I don't blamethose folks who could
understand.
But, going through that myself,I came with a decision.
You know what, if I have to gothrough this, I want to leverage
it to make it a bettersituation for others so that
they don't have to go throughwith it.
And I actually committed anumber back in those days and I
(03:00):
was like you know what?
I want to see a million peopleget the help they need with
better mental health.
So that's what I'm passionateabout.
That's why I'm doing what I'mdoing today with my club.
And again, it's an honor to behere to send and talking with
you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, you know, it is amazing or maybe it's not so
amazing how many of our guestsover the last 11 years start
their business with a personalstory.
Something happens and theythink there must be a better way
.
And you know, I tell peopleoften when we talk about our
guests with apologies to SimonSinek, most of our guests don't
start with why.
They start with why not, andthen they go find and build a
(03:35):
better mousetrap.
So it's great to have you here.
So let's talk about this phrasethat I used at the beginning.
What is the mutualmystification in mental health?
It sounds great.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
What does it mean Well, that's great, and again,
I'll be careful on time, perhapsbecause I could go on and on in
different avenues.
But I think it's veryinteresting in an industry where
we have a month set aside formental health awareness, so many
people are talking about mentalhealth in that month.
But I'll be rhetorical here andact like Plato to Aristotle.
What are they doing about that,David?
(04:06):
What decisive actions are theytaking to change the solutions
they're bringing to theiremployer groups?
One of those mystifications isthat there just is no help out
there, that it's just too long.
They can't get timely help whenpeople need it and the carrier
plans are not robust plans.
These networks are overburdened.
(04:27):
It takes too long to see people, especially with medication
management, it's taking onaverage three to five months.
So these are real worldproblems still going on and most
of the networks that are outthere are not good networks.
So the mystification is thereare some networks out there.
Mind Club is one of them.
Certainly there may be others.
(04:50):
I'm not here to talk about mycompetitors, but I'm here to
talk about what we're doing.
I'm proud of it and I'm proudto represent the brand because
we're providing access tocounselors, to the opportunity
to have medication management intwo business days, not months.
We understand the complicationsthat can take place when people
have to wait.
It's difficult enough to getpeople to go to get the help
they need when it's involvingtheir mental health.
(05:11):
Telling them thank you forcoming and setting up an
appointment We'll see you inthree months is not a solution.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So you know, once upon a time I was involved with
a company that helped peopleemployers do their MHPAEA
reporting, and one of the placesthat they inevitably would fail
is access.
Is access a real problem or isthat a red?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
herring.
So again, great question.
And access to care is achallenge for a lot of these
groups because, again, they'reattached to a network that is
not strong enough to handle theemployee load.
And there was that opportunitythose employees who have a need,
and what MindClub does.
Or should I wait to talk aboutthat later?
I can go either way here.
So you're 25 minutes, beautiful.
(05:52):
It's why I'm doing what I'mdoing is because I sat in the
seat of working for an EAPprovider before and one of the
things that frustrated me wasthe fact that we couldn't get
people in to get the help theyneed when they took those action
steps to get help.
And that's one of the thingsthat we do.
Is we, before we take on anygroup and I'm telling all
(06:13):
advisors this we need 90 days.
Certainly, we could probablybuild that network in a much
more timely manner, but justhave that understanding that we
need 90 days to make sure it'sgoing to be robust enough before
we take them on, because Idon't want to be replicating a
problem that exists out there inthese poor carrier networks.
So we're going to look at thatcensus.
We're going to understand wherethey are, the demographics of
(06:33):
that population.
If language is an issue, wewant to make sure that we can
support them at their point ofneed, so that when they reach
out to us, they're not going tohave to wait longer than two
days to see a clinician.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
We've talked oftentimes on the podcast about
predictive modeling and abouthow we've basically run an
industry for years, looking outthe rearview mirror.
A lot of times mental health isreactive or care for mental
health is reactive.
Are there ways that it can beproactive, and what do those
look?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
like Great question and again, that was one of my
pain points at an EAP providerwas the fact that the key
statement was we're there whenyou need us.
But the reality when it comesto mental health is there are
many things a person can do toinvest in their mental health so
that they don't need you lateron, so that you don't need to
have a meeting with a clinician.
(07:26):
So cognitive behavioral therapyis a big part of that process.
And when people can just simplytake a very brief assessment
and get feedback to understandwhat their baseline is or where
they are today and also takesome steps to improve their
mental health over time, it's nodifferent than going to the gym
and saying today I can't benchpress 100 pounds, but over the
(07:48):
course of time, if I add theseweights on, I will be able to do
X amount of weights.
That's what we're doing in themental health space is by
helping people understand,initially through an assessment
three to five minutes what theirbaseline is, where are they
today as their base, and thenworking with them so that they
put out those steps, thoseappropriate measures, and then
we engage them through our app,through also our platform, which
(08:11):
could be text messaging emailsencouraging them, using
gamification and also rewards toinspire them to keep taking
that action so that they don'tfollow in my footsteps and burn
out later because they didn'trealize what was going on.
I didn't know I was burning out, I just know I needed to show
up every day and one day I wokeup and I couldn't move.
So those preventative measuresof engaging a tool it's actually
(08:36):
going to be fun and inspiring,encouraging you along life's
journey, and that individual'sputting in that data is very
beneficial in being preventativeand proactive as opposed to
reactionary.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And now a word from our sponsor.
You're not just an advisor,you're a game changer.
Forget cookie-cutter cookiecutter off the shelf solutions.
That's yesterday's news.
It's 2025 and it's all aboutdelivering bold, custom crafted
plans that truly make adifference.
At the core is a razor sharp,self-insured framework, but the
(09:12):
real magic that's in the highimpact point solutions.
You strategically layer in toslash costs and supercharge
member outcomes.
But let's be real, that's wherethe headaches start.
Hours wasted sifting throughendless options, wrestling with
(09:33):
integration issues and fightingdata-sharing roadblocks.
It's a time suck and it'sholding you back Not anymore.
Meet Benapower, the AI-poweredgame changer that builds killer
plans in minutes, not hours.
Benapower doesn't just curatethe best point solutions.
It makes them work togetherseamlessly, streamlining
communication and drivingcollaboration like never before.
(09:54):
With Benapower, you're armedwith an end-to-end AI-enabled
solution that makes youunstoppable.
Spend less time piecingtogether a patchwork plan and
more time selling your clients,get unmatched ROI and you become
the go-to advisor thateveryone's talking about.
Want to take your game to thenext level?
(10:15):
Visit Benapowerai or schedule ademo at info at Benapowercom.
Find your power with Benapower.
And now back to ourconversation employees to help
(10:39):
them get around, because therestill is a stigma around
admitting that you have aproblem and going and getting
help.
What kinds of things have tocome to the table for an
employer to help their employees?
Because it's got to be atremendous cost, not only the
medical cost, but theproductivity cost presenteeism,
absenteeism et cetera has got tobe huge.
So how do you help employeesmake that turn or turn that?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
corner, absolutely.
And another great question.
So communication is soimportant, but the different
types of communication, where isthat communication coming from?
So what we do right out of thegate is we have a kickoff call
with the entire management team.
We ask them to take the threeto five minute assessment.
We want them to experience whattheir employees are going to
experience.
(11:18):
So that number one, they can sayto the employee population hey,
this is something that we'vedone.
It's very simple, it's not long, but it's worth it for your
mental health, please follow us.
And we have found that when theleadership does that first the
employee, there's a greaterresponse for the employees to
participate in that and it makesthat employee conversation we
(11:38):
have ongoing much easier to haveand much more supportive
because they know it's a saferenvironment for them to get the
help they need.
Even though everything is HIPAAcompliant and confidentiality,
people are still concerned aboutthe HR person knowing, or
whoever, if they have a mentalhealth issue.
So we start with a leadershipfirst so that they know they've
(11:59):
already forged ahead and takenit themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So let's dial back a couple of steps.
Perfect, I'm a benefit advisor.
How do I start having thisconversation with an employer
who is already up to theireyeballs in point solutions and
trying to figure out how not tospend tons of money in addition
to what they're already spendingand yet attract and retain the
kind of employees that they want?
(12:23):
How do I have that?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
conversation.
What do I say?
Yeah, I guess one of thequestions is how you know, are
you concerned?
Are you genuinely concernedabout the mental health of your
employee population?
A lot of people, a lot ofemployers, do not want to pay
for mental health because ofwhat's going on.
Again, this falls under theumbrella of mutual mystification
.
People are paying X amount ofdollars per employee per month
(12:47):
and the reporting is not great.
And why am I saying that?
Utilization?
What does that even mean inmental health?
If you ask eight differentmental health solution providers
, you might get eight differentanswers right.
So we avoid that conversationand I would avoid that as well
of asking the employer are youpassionate about your population
when it comes to mental health?
(13:07):
If so, would you be open toengaging a provider that will do
the heavy lift and that'sengaging your employees on the
front end, not waiting for thesethings to happen.
That's engaging your employeeson the front end, not waiting
for these things to happen,because over the course of time,
we can get those results bythem putting in their own data.
So I think that's a big part ofit is most people are willing
to say they're willing toparticipate in Mental Health
(13:28):
Month right and mental healthawareness.
But are you really willing tolet a group come in and access
the appropriate data so that wecan engage them on a regular
basis?
Because you know a lot ofpeople ask me what's a good size
group?
That's not a question to beasked.
For me, it's a good group forMind Club is those employer
groups that are willing toembrace engagement, because
(13:49):
that's where the results willhappen.
Engagement over time can changebehaviors, can start new habits
and create a healthierpopulation, not just in mental
health but in physical health.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Is part of the conversation With employers what
it's costing them, both hardcosts and soft costs.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That's a great point right there and that could be
from a standalone plan.
Again, I'm not here to throwmud at my competitors, but I
talk to advisors every singleweek and sometimes daily.
They're talking about thousandsof dollars being spent,
sometimes tens of thousands ofdollars a month being spent, and
they don't even know what theutilization is, let alone what
(14:26):
the utilization might mean ifthey were ever given a report.
They literally weren't given areport, and it was a $65,000
bill a month.
So what are they spending on it?
Have they seen any results?
What do the utilization reportssay?
Do they break it down?
Are they getting sessions or issomeone merely going online and
looking up other types ofresources?
(14:47):
I'm not downplaying those otherresources, but we are a mental
health solution.
We are not the bells andwhistles of an EAP that provide
all those other outside circularbenefits that can be beneficial
in life, which they do serve asa benefit, but we are very
serious about mental health andthat is what we do.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
They benefit but we are very serious about mental
health and that is what we do.
So, looking forward, what doyou see happening, both on the
employer base and also withmental health?
Is the crisis in accessibilitygoing to ease off anytime soon?
Is AI going to help?
I mean, what kinds of thingsare you seeing on the horizon?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
We're seeing a lot of things with AI developing that
are helping people on a dailybasis.
I think the employers out therethere's been a big shift.
I think when COVID started therewas a big surge in EAP
providers.
I think the reality is the lackof quality utilization reports
being granular in detail toexplain what that actually means
(15:44):
.
As opposed to X number is yourutilization and that's it.
Employers want to know whatthey're paying per employee
rates for and a lot of them justdon't know because the
utilization reports are so vagueor they're not getting one.
So I think the future isholding a shift towards more
robust solutions because Ibelieve and we are seeing
(16:06):
firsthand employers want to seeresults.
They want to see an increase inemployee morale.
They want not just a healthierpopulation, they want a happier
population.
They want employees to show upknowing that they're glad to be
a part of something and againgoes back to your initial
statement of the why they canfeel that when the employer
backs a solution that truly isgoing to impact their mental
(16:29):
health, not just be a tag on orsomething that's embedded, that
over 50% of the populationdoesn't even know what it is or
how to access it.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And this is an issue, is it not?
Regardless of how the plans arefunded and regardless of what
size the plan is?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Great question.
So, again, at MindClub, we canbolt onto any plan.
It doesn't matter if it's fullyinsured, self-funded, direct
primary care.
We could put boots on theground in the case with working
with community health plans,whether it's DPC or hospital
systems, and I think that's apowerful solution when you're
working with a provider thatsays we are not a cookie cutter.
You tell us what you need, wewant to solve the problem first,
(17:09):
that's what's going to be bestfor you, then that's the way we
need to build it and we go fromthere and that's a great place
to end our conversation fortoday.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
John Troutman, vice President of Business
Development at Mind Club America.
John A, always great to see youand thanks for sharing what you
guys are doing and how you'retrying to help the mental health
crisis in this country.
Thank you so much, david.
I want to give a quick shoutout to our sponsor and our
producer, hatcher Media.
(17:36):
Hey, if you need podcastproduction or professional
graphic design, josh Hatcher isthe expert to contact.
For more information, visit himat HatcherMedianet.
That's H-A-T-C-H-E-R Media dotnet.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
This Shift Shapers podcast is copyrighted content
and may not be reproduced inwhole or in part without the
express written permission ofShift Shapers Solutions LLC.
Copyright 2024.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!