September 16, 2025 • 23 mins
Jessica DeAngelo, Chief Hiking Officer at Hike to Become, shares how unplugging in nature revolutionizes business thinking and helps executives rediscover clarity and creativity away from digital distractions.
• Former global sales director who transformed her life by committing to daily hiking after feeling overwhelmed by corporate demands and new motherhood
• Created the Hike 31 Challenge based on four principles: Hike or walk, In nature, Keep tech off, Every day
• Takes executive teams on guided hiking experiences that create space for connection and independent thought
• Incorporates forest bathing exercises that allow business leaders time alone with their thoughts
• Clients report experiencing clarity on complex problems, rediscovering joy, and generating breakthrough business ideas
• Companies see ROI through faster decision-making, innovative approaches, and reduced executive burnout
• New book "The Wild Advantage" explores how reconnecting with nature helps executives think more creatively in the age of AI
Text HIKE to 33777 to join the Hike 31 Challenge or visit Jessica DeAngelo.com to learn more about bringing this transformative experience to your team.
This episode is sponsored by Benepower, the platform of choice for a modern benefits experience. Benepower is an AI-powered benefits platform offering access to top products and services, enabling consultants and employers to create customized plans, optimize usage, and measure effectiveness. www.benepower.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David (00:01):
What if someone told you to take a hike, and it was
actually really good businessadvice?
We'll find out on this episodeof Shift Shapers.
Announcer Lady (00:11):
This is the Shift Shapers podcast,
connecting benefits advisorswith thought leaders and
entrepreneurs who are shapingthe shifts in the industry.
And now here's your host, DavidSaltzman shifts in the industry
.
David (00:27):
And now here's your host, david Saltzman, and to help us
answer that question, we haveinvited Jessica D'Angelo, who is
you've never heard of one ofthese before.
She is the Chief Hiking Officerat Hike2Become and we'll get
into all of that.
Welcome, jessica.
Jessica (00:38):
Thanks for having me, David.
I'm excited to be here.
David (00:41):
Our pleasure.
So we always ask people kind ofhow they got into doing what
they're doing.
I know you transitioned fromglobal sales and strategy at
Fortune 500 firms.
What led you to make thatchange?
Jessica (00:55):
Oh, such a great question.
I'm going to answer it with alittle bit of a story.
Back in, I would say, 2020, weall remember what a fun year
2020 was.
I was working for a largecorporation.
I was working as a globalaccount director and some of my
clients were the largestcompanies in the world I want
you to think smiley face boxesand fruit logos and it was my
(01:17):
job to create the globalstrategy for how we were going
to sell into those companies andpartner around innovation and
sustainability and then managesales teams all over the world
to execute my strategy, david.
So to say that I was under likea little bit of pressure would
maybe be an understatement.
David (01:35):
Just a tiny bit.
Jessica (01:36):
Tiny bit.
And to add to the fun, I hadjust become a mom.
I had welcomed my daughter thatsame year.
So I'll never forget.
I was sitting in front of mycomputer one day.
I was waiting for my eighthZoom call of the day, and it
wasn't even lunchtime yet.
Do you remember those times,david?
David (01:53):
Oh, I do indeed.
Jessica (01:55):
It's crazy.
And I just had this momentwhere I looked out my window, my
office window, overlookedForest Park, which is the
largest urban park in the UnitedStates, right outside of
Portland, oregon, and I had thisthought I couldn't remember the
last time I had been for a hike, and so I canceled the next
meeting.
I drove out to the trailheadand I went for a walk in the
(02:16):
woods.
I left my cell phone in the carand it was like I could breathe
for the first time in months.
I couldn't hear my daughtercrying and feel the insane mom
guilt that the nanny would haveto get her because mommy was too
busy working.
I couldn't hear the incessantdings of my cell phone you know
the Teams, the Slacks, theWhatsApp, the emails and I
(02:37):
started to just sort of comeback to myself again.
And that day I made myself acommitment that, no matter what
it cost me, I was going to showup on the hiking trail every day
.
So that was the start of thepivot to what I do now.
David (02:50):
Well, you mentioned your daughter, so let's fast forward
to December 2023.
Yes, you were on a hike andyour daughter gave you a very
like kids do gave you a verysimple instruction.
What'd she say and what didthat mean?
Gave you a very simpleinstruction.
Jessica (03:04):
What'd she say and what did that mean?
So right before this hike, onDecember 23rd 2023, a few days
earlier I had been in our familyloft playing pretend restaurant
with my kids, which is such afun game.
But I was at the height ofbuilding my consulting practice,
my phone dinged.
Wish I could say, david, that Ididn't look down and answer it,
(03:24):
but I did, and the room hadgotten really reallyed.
Wish I could say, david, that Ididn't look down and answer it,
but I did, and the room hadgotten really, really quiet.
And I realized now you're aparent, david, so you know the
kind of quiet I'm talking about.
You're either about to likesave a life or get an unexpected
home improvement project.
But I was surprised when Ilooked up.
My daughter Brynn, was juststill standing right in front of
me and she looked at me withthe most adult expression and
(03:44):
she said mom, get off your phone.
That was.
That was really hard for me,because it was a moment where I
was faced with here.
I am very much present in mykid's life, but not connected.
Even though I was like presentin body, I wasn't present with
them and that that was, but itwas instructive.
(04:05):
Yeah, she's very instructive.
Yeah, she's very instructive.
David (04:08):
Children can be that way.
Sometimes they can.
They can so at a 20,000 footlevel.
What you do is convince allthese corporate bigwigs and
executives and teams and whatnotto get out in the woods.
But it's not.
It's not kind of like one ofthose Kumbaya you know, fall
backwards and somebody willcatch you thing.
It's a little bit different,but I'm curious because you did
(04:30):
a TEDx talk and you talked abouthow people are afraid to step
into nature.
What's that all about and howdo you help people overcome that
?
Then we'll talk more about whatgoes on in the woods.
Jessica (04:41):
Yeah, I love it.
So what transpired is I decidedto bring hiking back into my
life after my daughter called meout for being on my phone and
being distracted.
And then I started to realize,david, that I brought back this
daily hiking practice, which Ialways practice unplugged from
technology.
And a couple of weeks in I hadthis epiphany why am I not
(05:02):
hiking with my clients?
This is helping me so much, notjust from, as you mentioned,
like a woo-woo state of mind,but I started having really
great business ideas as I washiking, and so from that moment
on, I just really startedincorporating hiking with my
clients, whether it wasconsulting I sometimes get hired
as a keynote speaker or evenone-on-one coaching.
(05:26):
And so you asked me I explore inthe TEDx this concept that
people are afraid to be alonewith their own thoughts.
A lot of people think thatthey're too afraid to go into
the woods because they're scaredof maybe wild animals, right,
or getting lost or I don't know,falling off the side of a cliff
.
But what I uncovered?
The past two years I've spentinspiring hundreds, if not
thousands.
I've lost count of people topractice what I call this Hike
(05:48):
31 challenge, and as I follow upwith them.
I start hearing a familiarpattern that people are afraid
to be alone with their ownthoughts.
David (06:00):
That's fascinating, but you know, if you think about it,
anybody who's been in abusiness meeting has gotten lost
, dealt with wild animals andfallen off a cliff, so it's not
really all that different.
Jessica (06:10):
That is a very valid point, David.
David (06:12):
You know, so you call this the Hike 31 Challenge.
Let's talk about it in a littlebit of detail, what that's all
about and what goes on.
Jessica (06:21):
Absolutely so.
When I had this kind of bigepiphany myself about how do I
bring myself back in my life,kind of get clarity on my
business and how I'm showing up,I committed to hiking for 31
days straight in the month ofJanuary in 2024.
It changed my life and so nowI've developed what I call the
(06:41):
Hike 31 Challenge, where anyonecan sign up.
I can give the prompt in asecond to join this challenge on
their own and practice on theirown.
I also do it as a follow-upwith any corporate teams that
hire me to come in for anexperience.
But essentially what it is isfour parts, david, super simple.
I renamed the acronym Hike.
I'm very science and data drivenso I needed to understand why
(07:05):
this was working so well.
So the first part is H and thatstands for hike or walk.
Basically, the idea here is youneed to be in movement.
Movement creates bilateralstimulation and it helps the
right and the left hemisphere ofyour brain talk to one another.
That's really important whenyou're trying to come up with
cool business ideas.
The second part is I, whichstands for in nature, and I've
(07:30):
looked at a ton of studies.
Being in nature for a period oftime will help you reduce
stress and anxiety, enhanceemotional well-being and improve
your cognitive function.
But the thing everybody getswrong most of my high-level
business executive clients.
They always tell me, david, Itotally practice Hike.
Well, let me tell you about K.
(07:50):
K stands for keep tech off.
And all those high-levelbusiness executives.
Probably the one big shift Ikind of forced them all to make
is to get rid of these earbuds,get rid of the smartwatch and
the cell phone and practice itwithout technology, because
technology will stop all theamazing benefits of the first
two parts of hike.
(08:11):
It'll stop those benefits.
And so, finally, e stands forevery day.
You're going to practice thisevery day for at least 30 to 40
minutes for 31 days and peoplehave had some pretty
transformational experiencesjust doing that.
David (08:27):
You said that it changed your life.
How so?
Jessica (08:31):
It reminded me who I am .
It reminded me to be fearlessabout what's important to me.
It reminded me to embrace whatmakes me sort of different or
crazy in the world of business.
To embrace what makes me sortof different or crazy in the
world of business, and it has,honestly, david, it's inspired a
movement.
I'm about to release a book.
This fall I've given a TEDx andthere's so many people that I
(08:54):
think this has had a positiveimpact.
But I was like patient zero.
I was the first person.
It forced me to spend timealone with my thoughts so that I
could get to know myself again.
And once that happened, theripple effect throughout my
entire life, whether I was beingpresent with my kids and
playing with them, having dinnerwith my husband or meeting with
(09:14):
my clients, I started showingup in my life, no longer burnout
and disconnected, but fullypresent, and that's a big shift.
David (09:23):
So this is kind of a Walden Pond kind of a thing.
Jessica (09:27):
Yes and no.
So I think the biggest reasonso nothing.
So to be clear, I don't thinkanything I'm doing is like
radically new or innovative.
I'll be very clear about that.
If anything, I'm a guide toremind people that this is how
humanity has existed forhundreds of thousands of years.
I don't know, I'm not theexpert, but only in the last 150
(09:50):
years have we kind of movedtowards working inside offices,
tethered behind desks, behind acomputer, constantly connected
to cell phones, and we're losingsight of the beauty of the
human mind.
And in order to uncover ourbrilliant business ideas, we're
going to have to break the moldof the way we work.
So is it Walden, Sort ofinspired, but Steve Jobs, one of
(10:15):
the greatest business minds ofall time?
When he was stuck on an idea,David, he would go for a walk,
often barefoot, before theiPhone was even invented.
And there's countless otherexamples like him of some of the
greatest business minds today,even practicing what I advocate
for, which is walking in nature.
David (10:34):
So when you take groups out, are there structured
activities?
Is it just kind of wanderingaround aimlessly or aimfully, I
guess, would be a better word.
You know what does that looklike.
Are there exercises, goals,objectives, tasks, et cetera?
Jessica (10:49):
So there's two experiences I curate.
One is called a hike to becomeexperience, and it is.
I typically come in and I workwith an executive team.
We do a campfire chat where wetalk about the problem of
disconnection and feeling thepressure of constantly having to
be connected, and we discussthat the inverse is often true.
And then the next morning I geteverybody up early and we go
(11:12):
for a guided hike and I pairpeople up together.
We go through some specificprompts on the trail.
But this is really important,david, I do not spend our time
on the trail yammering at peoplethe whole time.
No one wants that.
The whole point is to allowthem to connect with each other.
And then there's a specificpoint in the experience where I
guide them through a forestbathing exercise that they
(11:34):
practice by themselves.
I've had executives tell methat it's the first time they've
been alone with their thoughtsand they can't even remember
when that forest bathingexercise.
And then, after all of that sothat's the hike to become
experience this fall I'mreleasing what's called the wild
advantage experience, which isall of that, except after we get
(11:55):
done the hike, we do the numberone thing that the team has to
accomplish in their companyoffsite.
Typically it's like strategicplanning a business challenge,
figuring out how to launch a newproduct or service.
They keep me around because atthat point, after I've taken
them through the guided hike,their brains are totally turned
on and ready to functiondifferently.
(12:16):
And then we tackle their topbusiness challenge and I use my
background and strategy to helpthem do that.
So that's the wild advantageexperience.
David (12:23):
I think one of the things that you talk about, a key
theme in your work, is invitingpeople to ask what if?
How does that work?
Jessica (12:31):
So I think so often we get trapped in this loop of I
think I know what I should be, Ithink I know what I should do
for a living, I think I know howI should act, and we kind of
get stuck there and my businesshas completely changed.
The moment I basically askedmyself what if?
(12:53):
And it started with what if Itook my clients hiking?
And the stuck loop would havetold my like.
I would have told myself likeno, that's silly, no one will go
for it.
But I kept pressing the what ifand I called a CEO who had
already hired me for a keynoteand he's awesome, he's a dear
(13:14):
friend now and his name is John.
I said hey, john, what if Itook your team hiking in the
middle of the keynote?
Now, normally I wouldn't havebeen that brave, david, it was
sort of a nutty idea.
And you know what John said tome Sure, let's do it.
And that was the very firsthike to become experience.
And it started with me askingmyself well, what if?
(13:34):
And the question was simpleListen, you've spent lots of
years in corporate America andyou understand.
You get trapped in thesekeynote situations or these
meetings where you're like Ijust want to leave the hotel
conference room.
I just want to see nature.
And I my question.
There was well, what if I couldchange the experience the way?
I wish someone had changed itfor me when I was in corporate.
(13:56):
It kind of led me down thispath it for me when I was in
corporate.
David (14:02):
It kind of led me down this path.
So what kind of changes arepeople reporting to you?
What are you seeing and youknow be?
If you have some examples,that'd be great.
But be as expansive as you canso we understand kind of what
that transformation actually isand what happens.
Jessica (14:13):
Absolutely so.
I would say the number onething that people experience
when they're with me is somelevel of clarity.
Typically, there's either aproblem that they're wrestling
with, or maybe it's a careerchange, perhaps it's not knowing
what to do next.
By practicing this methodwhether it's with me during an
(14:35):
experience as the catalyst orduring our own Hike 31 challenge
people have moments of extremeclarity on what's next, just by
quieting the noise and spendingtime alone with their thoughts.
The other thing that is beingreported and really makes me
feel actually somewhat emotionalDavid is high-level executives,
(14:58):
actually somewhat emotional.
David is high-level executives.
I'm talking people that areworking 16, 18-hour days, that
have global teams that report tothem, or sending me messages
that say things like I had anexecutive coaching client
several weeks ago send me amessage that he was traveling in
San Francisco and he went forhis hike, which included no tech
, and he spotted fireflies andit was the first time he had
(15:20):
caught a firefly since he was akid and that really, you know,
hit me hard.
I had another global executivetell me that, you know, she went
for a hike in the rain andwe're not talking a drizzle, but
like a rain downpouringeverywhere, and she shared a
picture with me yesterday and itmade my heart so happy because
she was drenched, but she was sohappy.
(15:42):
It's two parts, I would say.
It's the catalyst for clarity,absolutely, but it's also this
experience of remembering who weare again.
And then there's, I guess, athird piece, and that's the
breakthrough business ideas thatare happening on the trail.
Lots of people are experiencingthese moments of like.
(16:02):
I said, what if they pushthemselves a little farther?
They dare to dream again, and Ithink that it is the catalyst
for lots of disruptive businessideas.
And one quick example, david,not necessarily related to my
work, but there's a rumor thatNetflix's founder, reed Hastings
, came up with his disruptivebusiness idea when he went for a
(16:25):
walk at night because he wasmad.
He got a $40 late fee fromBlockbuster.
There's something to this andmy clients are experiencing it
and it's very exciting.
David (16:38):
Do you find from the information you're getting back
from them, from the feedback,that they're making changes in
business decisions as well, andmaybe directions or processes,
or is it impacting their teams?
Jessica (16:52):
Yes.
So let's kind of tackle themone by one.
So the first thing I would saypeople are reporting after an
experience with me for theirexecutive team or a team doing
some real off-site challengingwork, that they are making
faster business decisions.
They're exploring ways to dothings, that they do things that
they don't think would havecome to them.
(17:13):
Naturally are two things.
And they're having discussionsthey wouldn't normally have.
I talk a lot about this andgive specific examples in my
book.
There's a place of kind ofexploratory vulnerability that
people have post an experienceand so their brains are turned
on in a different way andthey're willing to say that sort
of crazy thing in the meetingroom where before they probably
(17:35):
would have held back and beenlike that's too nuts, I'm not
going to go there.
But this is the birthplace ofdisruptive ideas.
So that's the first, maybeanswer to your question, but I
think the other thing you werealluding to is like ROI for
teams.
David (17:48):
Yeah.
Jessica (17:49):
So one of the clients I interviewed mentioned after.
So they did a Hike to Becomeexperience with me last
September.
I'm actually going to be withthem again this September, which
is so exciting and I asked herthe executive leader who hired
me.
I said what did you see withyour team?
So they did the experience,david, and then the entire team
of about 10 people participatedin the Hike 31 challenge by
(18:12):
themselves for a month.
Afterwards.
Here's what she said to me Jess, if you save just one of my
leaders or this experience savedone of my leaders from
resigning due to burnout becausethey're learning how to manage
this kind of sacred time alonewith their thoughts, get out in
nature and hike, but then alsotheir members of their team, and
(18:37):
now all of a sudden, the ROI isalmost you can't quantify it
because it's kind of a dominoeffect of saving.
You know, putting the oxygenmask on the leader first and
then their team.
The other thing that has comeup in that interview is she
mentioned this whole process hasgiven her and her team a new
(18:57):
language.
So she'll have one-on-ones withdirect reports and maybe
they're stressed out orwrestling with something.
And her first question now,david, is did you go on your
hike today?
David (19:08):
Interesting.
We're going to take a quickbreak for our sponsor and then
we're going to ask Jessica abouther upcoming book.
And now a word from our sponsor.
As a benefits advisor, you needmore than a platform.
You need a partner that makesyou indispensable and impossible
to replace.
That's BenePower.
Benepower didn't retrofit an oldlegacy system for AI.
(19:30):
It was purpose-built for itfrom the ground up.
So every tool works faster,smarter and cleaner.
There are four pillars deepvendor integration, simple
activation, member engagementand performance measurement.
Fit your workflow and they canintegrate new vendors in days,
not weeks.
They take any data format Excel, pdf, whatever without hours of
(19:54):
cleanup For your clients.
Truvo, benapower's AI-poweredhealthcare navigator, is always
on Chat, email or voice, guidingemployees and sending
pre-authorization alerts beforetreatment, preventing surprise
bills.
You get one-click reporting toprove your value, win renewals
and grow your business withoutdrowning in spreadsheets.
(20:17):
Outperform competitors, keepclients loyal.
Grow your business.
That's spreadsheets.
Outperform competitors, keepclients loyal, grow your
business.
That's the Benapower advantage.
For more information or toschedule a demo of Benapower, go
to benapowercom.
Now back to our conversation,and we're back talking to
Jessica D'Angelo, chief HikingOfficer at Hike2Become.
So, jessica, you've got a bookcoming out and I know you're
(20:39):
really excited about it and wehave already talked about this.
We'll have you back on once thebook is out, but tell us a
little bit about the book.
Jessica (20:46):
Sure.
So the book is called the WildAdvantage, why your Brain on
Nature is your Boldest BusinessMove, and the premise of the
book is that the way we work isbroken today.
Our relationship with nature isalso broken, as is our
relationship with ourselves, andI offer a methodology, if you
(21:08):
will, to start to change all ofthat.
I really you know this book wassuch a labor of love, david.
I've been writing it for over ayear and I just shared with you
that I signed off on the finalmanuscript last night, which
felt really exciting.
Yes, so in the book I call itpart adventure story, part
(21:30):
business strategy, and what itis is it stories throughout my
life of not just me hiking, butnow hiking with my clients?
I've interviewed a bunch ofclients about their experiences
and what the hiking trail hasunlocked for them in business
and in life.
And then I also share a lot ofanecdotes from some of the top
business leaders that we allknow Phil Knight, one of the
(21:52):
founders of Nike, steve Jobsfrom Apple, and other business
examples that remind us thatmaybe, in the age of artificial
intelligence, the number onething we can do is remember how
to think like humans again, andI offer some practical advice to
do that.
David (22:08):
That's awesome.
Now we'll put your contactinformation in the show notes.
But if people want to reach outto you, what's the best way to
reach you?
Jessica (22:14):
Absolutely so.
If they want to join the Hike31 Challenge, it's very simple
they can text the word hikeH-I-K-E to number 33777, and
that will get them in the Hike31 Challenge.
They can also find me on mywebsite it's just
JessicaD'Angelocom, and that'sprobably the easiest way to
(22:34):
reach me, and I'm also veryactive on LinkedIn, so there's
three options.
David (22:38):
Jessica, thanks for a fascinating conversation.
We look forward to having youback once the book is out.
Jessica (22:43):
Sounds great, David.
Thank you.
Announcer Lady (22:48):
The Shift Shapers podcast is a production
of Shift Shapers LLC.
The content and images of thispodcast may not be used without
our express written permission.
Copyright 2023.
All rights reserved.
What if someone told you to take a hike, and it was
actually really good businessadvice?
We'll find out on this episodeof Shift Shapers.
Announcer Lady (00:11):
This is the Shift Shapers podcast,
connecting benefits advisorswith thought leaders and
entrepreneurs who are shapingthe shifts in the industry.
And now here's your host, DavidSaltzman shifts in the industry
.
David (00:27):
And now here's your host, david Saltzman, and to help us
answer that question, we haveinvited Jessica D'Angelo, who is
you've never heard of one ofthese before.
She is the Chief Hiking Officerat Hike2Become and we'll get
into all of that.
Welcome, jessica.
Jessica (00:38):
Thanks for having me, David.
I'm excited to be here.
David (00:41):
Our pleasure.
So we always ask people kind ofhow they got into doing what
they're doing.
I know you transitioned fromglobal sales and strategy at
Fortune 500 firms.
What led you to make thatchange?
Jessica (00:55):
Oh, such a great question.
I'm going to answer it with alittle bit of a story.
Back in, I would say, 2020, weall remember what a fun year
2020 was.
I was working for a largecorporation.
I was working as a globalaccount director and some of my
clients were the largestcompanies in the world I want
you to think smiley face boxesand fruit logos and it was my
(01:17):
job to create the globalstrategy for how we were going
to sell into those companies andpartner around innovation and
sustainability and then managesales teams all over the world
to execute my strategy, david.
So to say that I was under likea little bit of pressure would
maybe be an understatement.
David (01:35):
Just a tiny bit.
Jessica (01:36):
Tiny bit.
And to add to the fun, I hadjust become a mom.
I had welcomed my daughter thatsame year.
So I'll never forget.
I was sitting in front of mycomputer one day.
I was waiting for my eighthZoom call of the day, and it
wasn't even lunchtime yet.
Do you remember those times,david?
David (01:53):
Oh, I do indeed.
Jessica (01:55):
It's crazy.
And I just had this momentwhere I looked out my window, my
office window, overlookedForest Park, which is the
largest urban park in the UnitedStates, right outside of
Portland, oregon, and I had thisthought I couldn't remember the
last time I had been for a hike, and so I canceled the next
meeting.
I drove out to the trailheadand I went for a walk in the
(02:16):
woods.
I left my cell phone in the carand it was like I could breathe
for the first time in months.
I couldn't hear my daughtercrying and feel the insane mom
guilt that the nanny would haveto get her because mommy was too
busy working.
I couldn't hear the incessantdings of my cell phone you know
the Teams, the Slacks, theWhatsApp, the emails and I
(02:37):
started to just sort of comeback to myself again.
And that day I made myself acommitment that, no matter what
it cost me, I was going to showup on the hiking trail every day
.
So that was the start of thepivot to what I do now.
David (02:50):
Well, you mentioned your daughter, so let's fast forward
to December 2023.
Yes, you were on a hike andyour daughter gave you a very
like kids do gave you a verysimple instruction.
What'd she say and what didthat mean?
Gave you a very simpleinstruction.
Jessica (03:04):
What'd she say and what did that mean?
So right before this hike, onDecember 23rd 2023, a few days
earlier I had been in our familyloft playing pretend restaurant
with my kids, which is such afun game.
But I was at the height ofbuilding my consulting practice,
my phone dinged.
Wish I could say, david, that Ididn't look down and answer it,
(03:24):
but I did, and the room hadgotten really reallyed.
Wish I could say, david, that Ididn't look down and answer it,
but I did, and the room hadgotten really, really quiet.
And I realized now you're aparent, david, so you know the
kind of quiet I'm talking about.
You're either about to likesave a life or get an unexpected
home improvement project.
But I was surprised when Ilooked up.
My daughter Brynn, was juststill standing right in front of
me and she looked at me withthe most adult expression and
(03:44):
she said mom, get off your phone.
That was.
That was really hard for me,because it was a moment where I
was faced with here.
I am very much present in mykid's life, but not connected.
Even though I was like presentin body, I wasn't present with
them and that that was, but itwas instructive.
(04:05):
Yeah, she's very instructive.
Yeah, she's very instructive.
David (04:08):
Children can be that way.
Sometimes they can.
They can so at a 20,000 footlevel.
What you do is convince allthese corporate bigwigs and
executives and teams and whatnotto get out in the woods.
But it's not.
It's not kind of like one ofthose Kumbaya you know, fall
backwards and somebody willcatch you thing.
It's a little bit different,but I'm curious because you did
(04:30):
a TEDx talk and you talked abouthow people are afraid to step
into nature.
What's that all about and howdo you help people overcome that
?
Then we'll talk more about whatgoes on in the woods.
Jessica (04:41):
Yeah, I love it.
So what transpired is I decidedto bring hiking back into my
life after my daughter called meout for being on my phone and
being distracted.
And then I started to realize,david, that I brought back this
daily hiking practice, which Ialways practice unplugged from
technology.
And a couple of weeks in I hadthis epiphany why am I not
(05:02):
hiking with my clients?
This is helping me so much, notjust from, as you mentioned,
like a woo-woo state of mind,but I started having really
great business ideas as I washiking, and so from that moment
on, I just really startedincorporating hiking with my
clients, whether it wasconsulting I sometimes get hired
as a keynote speaker or evenone-on-one coaching.
(05:26):
And so you asked me I explore inthe TEDx this concept that
people are afraid to be alonewith their own thoughts.
A lot of people think thatthey're too afraid to go into
the woods because they're scaredof maybe wild animals, right,
or getting lost or I don't know,falling off the side of a cliff
.
But what I uncovered?
The past two years I've spentinspiring hundreds, if not
thousands.
I've lost count of people topractice what I call this Hike
(05:48):
31 challenge, and as I follow upwith them.
I start hearing a familiarpattern that people are afraid
to be alone with their ownthoughts.
David (06:00):
That's fascinating, but you know, if you think about it,
anybody who's been in abusiness meeting has gotten lost
, dealt with wild animals andfallen off a cliff, so it's not
really all that different.
Jessica (06:10):
That is a very valid point, David.
David (06:12):
You know, so you call this the Hike 31 Challenge.
Let's talk about it in a littlebit of detail, what that's all
about and what goes on.
Jessica (06:21):
Absolutely so.
When I had this kind of bigepiphany myself about how do I
bring myself back in my life,kind of get clarity on my
business and how I'm showing up,I committed to hiking for 31
days straight in the month ofJanuary in 2024.
It changed my life and so nowI've developed what I call the
(06:41):
Hike 31 Challenge, where anyonecan sign up.
I can give the prompt in asecond to join this challenge on
their own and practice on theirown.
I also do it as a follow-upwith any corporate teams that
hire me to come in for anexperience.
But essentially what it is isfour parts, david, super simple.
I renamed the acronym Hike.
I'm very science and data drivenso I needed to understand why
(07:05):
this was working so well.
So the first part is H and thatstands for hike or walk.
Basically, the idea here is youneed to be in movement.
Movement creates bilateralstimulation and it helps the
right and the left hemisphere ofyour brain talk to one another.
That's really important whenyou're trying to come up with
cool business ideas.
The second part is I, whichstands for in nature, and I've
(07:30):
looked at a ton of studies.
Being in nature for a period oftime will help you reduce
stress and anxiety, enhanceemotional well-being and improve
your cognitive function.
But the thing everybody getswrong most of my high-level
business executive clients.
They always tell me, david, Itotally practice Hike.
Well, let me tell you about K.
(07:50):
K stands for keep tech off.
And all those high-levelbusiness executives.
Probably the one big shift Ikind of forced them all to make
is to get rid of these earbuds,get rid of the smartwatch and
the cell phone and practice itwithout technology, because
technology will stop all theamazing benefits of the first
two parts of hike.
(08:11):
It'll stop those benefits.
And so, finally, e stands forevery day.
You're going to practice thisevery day for at least 30 to 40
minutes for 31 days and peoplehave had some pretty
transformational experiencesjust doing that.
David (08:27):
You said that it changed your life.
How so?
Jessica (08:31):
It reminded me who I am .
It reminded me to be fearlessabout what's important to me.
It reminded me to embrace whatmakes me sort of different or
crazy in the world of business.
To embrace what makes me sortof different or crazy in the
world of business, and it has,honestly, david, it's inspired a
movement.
I'm about to release a book.
This fall I've given a TEDx andthere's so many people that I
(08:54):
think this has had a positiveimpact.
But I was like patient zero.
I was the first person.
It forced me to spend timealone with my thoughts so that I
could get to know myself again.
And once that happened, theripple effect throughout my
entire life, whether I was beingpresent with my kids and
playing with them, having dinnerwith my husband or meeting with
(09:14):
my clients, I started showingup in my life, no longer burnout
and disconnected, but fullypresent, and that's a big shift.
David (09:23):
So this is kind of a Walden Pond kind of a thing.
Jessica (09:27):
Yes and no.
So I think the biggest reasonso nothing.
So to be clear, I don't thinkanything I'm doing is like
radically new or innovative.
I'll be very clear about that.
If anything, I'm a guide toremind people that this is how
humanity has existed forhundreds of thousands of years.
I don't know, I'm not theexpert, but only in the last 150
(09:50):
years have we kind of movedtowards working inside offices,
tethered behind desks, behind acomputer, constantly connected
to cell phones, and we're losingsight of the beauty of the
human mind.
And in order to uncover ourbrilliant business ideas, we're
going to have to break the moldof the way we work.
So is it Walden, Sort ofinspired, but Steve Jobs, one of
(10:15):
the greatest business minds ofall time?
When he was stuck on an idea,David, he would go for a walk,
often barefoot, before theiPhone was even invented.
And there's countless otherexamples like him of some of the
greatest business minds today,even practicing what I advocate
for, which is walking in nature.
David (10:34):
So when you take groups out, are there structured
activities?
Is it just kind of wanderingaround aimlessly or aimfully, I
guess, would be a better word.
You know what does that looklike.
Are there exercises, goals,objectives, tasks, et cetera?
Jessica (10:49):
So there's two experiences I curate.
One is called a hike to becomeexperience, and it is.
I typically come in and I workwith an executive team.
We do a campfire chat where wetalk about the problem of
disconnection and feeling thepressure of constantly having to
be connected, and we discussthat the inverse is often true.
And then the next morning I geteverybody up early and we go
(11:12):
for a guided hike and I pairpeople up together.
We go through some specificprompts on the trail.
But this is really important,david, I do not spend our time
on the trail yammering at peoplethe whole time.
No one wants that.
The whole point is to allowthem to connect with each other.
And then there's a specificpoint in the experience where I
guide them through a forestbathing exercise that they
(11:34):
practice by themselves.
I've had executives tell methat it's the first time they've
been alone with their thoughtsand they can't even remember
when that forest bathingexercise.
And then, after all of that sothat's the hike to become
experience this fall I'mreleasing what's called the wild
advantage experience, which isall of that, except after we get
(11:55):
done the hike, we do the numberone thing that the team has to
accomplish in their companyoffsite.
Typically it's like strategicplanning a business challenge,
figuring out how to launch a newproduct or service.
They keep me around because atthat point, after I've taken
them through the guided hike,their brains are totally turned
on and ready to functiondifferently.
(12:16):
And then we tackle their topbusiness challenge and I use my
background and strategy to helpthem do that.
So that's the wild advantageexperience.
David (12:23):
I think one of the things that you talk about, a key
theme in your work, is invitingpeople to ask what if?
How does that work?
Jessica (12:31):
So I think so often we get trapped in this loop of I
think I know what I should be, Ithink I know what I should do
for a living, I think I know howI should act, and we kind of
get stuck there and my businesshas completely changed.
The moment I basically askedmyself what if?
(12:53):
And it started with what if Itook my clients hiking?
And the stuck loop would havetold my like.
I would have told myself likeno, that's silly, no one will go
for it.
But I kept pressing the what ifand I called a CEO who had
already hired me for a keynoteand he's awesome, he's a dear
(13:14):
friend now and his name is John.
I said hey, john, what if Itook your team hiking in the
middle of the keynote?
Now, normally I wouldn't havebeen that brave, david, it was
sort of a nutty idea.
And you know what John said tome Sure, let's do it.
And that was the very firsthike to become experience.
And it started with me askingmyself well, what if?
(13:34):
And the question was simpleListen, you've spent lots of
years in corporate America andyou understand.
You get trapped in thesekeynote situations or these
meetings where you're like Ijust want to leave the hotel
conference room.
I just want to see nature.
And I my question.
There was well, what if I couldchange the experience the way?
I wish someone had changed itfor me when I was in corporate.
(13:56):
It kind of led me down thispath it for me when I was in
corporate.
David (14:02):
It kind of led me down this path.
So what kind of changes arepeople reporting to you?
What are you seeing and youknow be?
If you have some examples,that'd be great.
But be as expansive as you canso we understand kind of what
that transformation actually isand what happens.
Jessica (14:13):
Absolutely so.
I would say the number onething that people experience
when they're with me is somelevel of clarity.
Typically, there's either aproblem that they're wrestling
with, or maybe it's a careerchange, perhaps it's not knowing
what to do next.
By practicing this methodwhether it's with me during an
(14:35):
experience as the catalyst orduring our own Hike 31 challenge
people have moments of extremeclarity on what's next, just by
quieting the noise and spendingtime alone with their thoughts.
The other thing that is beingreported and really makes me
feel actually somewhat emotionalDavid is high-level executives,
(14:58):
actually somewhat emotional.
David is high-level executives.
I'm talking people that areworking 16, 18-hour days, that
have global teams that report tothem, or sending me messages
that say things like I had anexecutive coaching client
several weeks ago send me amessage that he was traveling in
San Francisco and he went forhis hike, which included no tech
, and he spotted fireflies andit was the first time he had
(15:20):
caught a firefly since he was akid and that really, you know,
hit me hard.
I had another global executivetell me that, you know, she went
for a hike in the rain andwe're not talking a drizzle, but
like a rain downpouringeverywhere, and she shared a
picture with me yesterday and itmade my heart so happy because
she was drenched, but she was sohappy.
(15:42):
It's two parts, I would say.
It's the catalyst for clarity,absolutely, but it's also this
experience of remembering who weare again.
And then there's, I guess, athird piece, and that's the
breakthrough business ideas thatare happening on the trail.
Lots of people are experiencingthese moments of like.
(16:02):
I said, what if they pushthemselves a little farther?
They dare to dream again, and Ithink that it is the catalyst
for lots of disruptive businessideas.
And one quick example, david,not necessarily related to my
work, but there's a rumor thatNetflix's founder, reed Hastings
, came up with his disruptivebusiness idea when he went for a
(16:25):
walk at night because he wasmad.
He got a $40 late fee fromBlockbuster.
There's something to this andmy clients are experiencing it
and it's very exciting.
David (16:38):
Do you find from the information you're getting back
from them, from the feedback,that they're making changes in
business decisions as well, andmaybe directions or processes,
or is it impacting their teams?
Jessica (16:52):
Yes.
So let's kind of tackle themone by one.
So the first thing I would saypeople are reporting after an
experience with me for theirexecutive team or a team doing
some real off-site challengingwork, that they are making
faster business decisions.
They're exploring ways to dothings, that they do things that
they don't think would havecome to them.
(17:13):
Naturally are two things.
And they're having discussionsthey wouldn't normally have.
I talk a lot about this andgive specific examples in my
book.
There's a place of kind ofexploratory vulnerability that
people have post an experienceand so their brains are turned
on in a different way andthey're willing to say that sort
of crazy thing in the meetingroom where before they probably
(17:35):
would have held back and beenlike that's too nuts, I'm not
going to go there.
But this is the birthplace ofdisruptive ideas.
So that's the first, maybeanswer to your question, but I
think the other thing you werealluding to is like ROI for
teams.
David (17:48):
Yeah.
Jessica (17:49):
So one of the clients I interviewed mentioned after.
So they did a Hike to Becomeexperience with me last
September.
I'm actually going to be withthem again this September, which
is so exciting and I asked herthe executive leader who hired
me.
I said what did you see withyour team?
So they did the experience,david, and then the entire team
of about 10 people participatedin the Hike 31 challenge by
(18:12):
themselves for a month.
Afterwards.
Here's what she said to me Jess, if you save just one of my
leaders or this experience savedone of my leaders from
resigning due to burnout becausethey're learning how to manage
this kind of sacred time alonewith their thoughts, get out in
nature and hike, but then alsotheir members of their team, and
(18:37):
now all of a sudden, the ROI isalmost you can't quantify it
because it's kind of a dominoeffect of saving.
You know, putting the oxygenmask on the leader first and
then their team.
The other thing that has comeup in that interview is she
mentioned this whole process hasgiven her and her team a new
(18:57):
language.
So she'll have one-on-ones withdirect reports and maybe
they're stressed out orwrestling with something.
And her first question now,david, is did you go on your
hike today?
David (19:08):
Interesting.
We're going to take a quickbreak for our sponsor and then
we're going to ask Jessica abouther upcoming book.
And now a word from our sponsor.
As a benefits advisor, you needmore than a platform.
You need a partner that makesyou indispensable and impossible
to replace.
That's BenePower.
Benepower didn't retrofit an oldlegacy system for AI.
(19:30):
It was purpose-built for itfrom the ground up.
So every tool works faster,smarter and cleaner.
There are four pillars deepvendor integration, simple
activation, member engagementand performance measurement.
Fit your workflow and they canintegrate new vendors in days,
not weeks.
They take any data format Excel, pdf, whatever without hours of
(19:54):
cleanup For your clients.
Truvo, benapower's AI-poweredhealthcare navigator, is always
on Chat, email or voice, guidingemployees and sending
pre-authorization alerts beforetreatment, preventing surprise
bills.
You get one-click reporting toprove your value, win renewals
and grow your business withoutdrowning in spreadsheets.
(20:17):
Outperform competitors, keepclients loyal.
Grow your business.
That's spreadsheets.
Outperform competitors, keepclients loyal, grow your
business.
That's the Benapower advantage.
For more information or toschedule a demo of Benapower, go
to benapowercom.
Now back to our conversation,and we're back talking to
Jessica D'Angelo, chief HikingOfficer at Hike2Become.
So, jessica, you've got a bookcoming out and I know you're
(20:39):
really excited about it and wehave already talked about this.
We'll have you back on once thebook is out, but tell us a
little bit about the book.
Jessica (20:46):
Sure.
So the book is called the WildAdvantage, why your Brain on
Nature is your Boldest BusinessMove, and the premise of the
book is that the way we work isbroken today.
Our relationship with nature isalso broken, as is our
relationship with ourselves, andI offer a methodology, if you
(21:08):
will, to start to change all ofthat.
I really you know this book wassuch a labor of love, david.
I've been writing it for over ayear and I just shared with you
that I signed off on the finalmanuscript last night, which
felt really exciting.
Yes, so in the book I call itpart adventure story, part
(21:30):
business strategy, and what itis is it stories throughout my
life of not just me hiking, butnow hiking with my clients?
I've interviewed a bunch ofclients about their experiences
and what the hiking trail hasunlocked for them in business
and in life.
And then I also share a lot ofanecdotes from some of the top
business leaders that we allknow Phil Knight, one of the
(21:52):
founders of Nike, steve Jobsfrom Apple, and other business
examples that remind us thatmaybe, in the age of artificial
intelligence, the number onething we can do is remember how
to think like humans again, andI offer some practical advice to
do that.
David (22:08):
That's awesome.
Now we'll put your contactinformation in the show notes.
But if people want to reach outto you, what's the best way to
reach you?
Jessica (22:14):
Absolutely so.
If they want to join the Hike31 Challenge, it's very simple
they can text the word hikeH-I-K-E to number 33777, and
that will get them in the Hike31 Challenge.
They can also find me on mywebsite it's just
JessicaD'Angelocom, and that'sprobably the easiest way to
(22:34):
reach me, and I'm also veryactive on LinkedIn, so there's
three options.
David (22:38):
Jessica, thanks for a fascinating conversation.
We look forward to having youback once the book is out.
Jessica (22:43):
Sounds great, David.
Thank you.
Announcer Lady (22:48):
The Shift Shapers podcast is a production
of Shift Shapers LLC.
The content and images of thispodcast may not be used without
our express written permission.
Copyright 2023.
All rights reserved.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.