October 28, 2025 • 24 mins
We explore what executive coaching really is, how it helps leaders make better decisions and show up with presence, and why advisors can use it to grow their practice and help clients cut costs and claims. We share signals that coaching is needed, how to introduce it without awkwardness, and how to build strong referral partnerships.
• Clear definition of executive coaching and who benefits
• Common leadership traps and the “business affair” pattern
• Executive presence as a practical skill set
• Turning vague goals into measurable outcomes
• How advisors spot coaching cues in client orgs
• Scripts for raising coaching without judgment
• Building trusted referral partnerships with coaches
• Why AI and hybrid work raise the stakes
This episode is sponsored by Benepower, the platform of choice for a modern benefits experience. Benepower is an AI-powered benefits platform offering access to top products and services, enabling consultants and employers to create customized plans, optimize usage, and measure effectiveness. www.benepower.com
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Episode Transcript
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David Saltzman (00:01):
What is executive coaching?
And how could it add value foradvisors and maybe even for
their clients?
We'll find out on this episodeof Shift Shapers.
Announcer (00:12):
This is the Shift Shapers Podcast, connecting
benefits advisors with thoughtleaders and entrepreneurs who
are shaping the shifts in theindustry.
And now, here's your host,David Saltzman.
David Saltzman (00:25):
And to help us answer that question, we're
joined by Jenna Dillon.
Jenna is founder of theExecutive Performance Institute
for Coaching.
And we're going to talk todayabout how insurance advisors can
use executive coaching as atool for business growth, both
for themselves and maybe evenfor their clients.
Hey Jenna, how are you today?
Jenna Dillon (00:42):
Hello, I'm great.
Thank you.
How are you?
David Saltzman (00:45):
I am awesome.
Awesome.
So let's let's dive right in.
First, let's talk aboutdefining the problem.
And a lot of advisors, and uh,we've all heard the term
executive coaching, but maybe wedon't all fully understand it.
So, how do you f defineexecutive coaching and what
should insurance advisors payattention to in the first place?
Jenna Dillon (01:04):
Yeah, I I would say executive coaching is, I'll
first say it's not lifecoaching, uh, in that we're
focused on professional pursuitsthat that individual we're
coaching one-on-one wants toaccomplish.
And so with that being said, Itend to, in my executive
coaching practice, focusstrictly on top leaders, so
(01:26):
chief officers and businessowners, uh leading executives,
and then there's alsoprofessionals who will be like
their own boss and essentiallythe CEO of themselves, right?
So those types of folks.
Now, executive coaching isoften when we're working
one-on-one to help leaders buildboth their discretion, their
(01:49):
thought process, and theirdiscernment, their decision
making and how they're actingupon their decisions from a
psyche perspective.
Um, while we are also buildingtheir executive presence, their
technical skills and businessacumen, all of these things
we're looking to incorporate inour conversations so that
(02:10):
they're developing skills to beultimately successful and not
just accomplishing what thedesired outcomes are or goals
are that they want to, but alsoso that they can navigate the
challenging stakes that theyhave in front of them.
David Saltzman (02:24):
So, what are the most common leadership or
organizational challenges,whichever or both, you see in
business today, especially thosethat insurance advisors might
serve, and how do thosechallenges show up in real time
and day-to-day activities?
Jenna Dillon (02:37):
Yeah, you're looking for lead like
leadership, what the leadersmight be facing individually, or
what the organization might befacing as a whole.
David Saltzman (02:46):
I mean, both.
Do executive coaches work onboth of those realms?
Jenna Dillon (02:49):
We do.
We we absolutely do.
And so I'll I'll first startwith individuals.
So um often they are there's athere's a number of different
things.
So uh often they're uh eitherrunning around like uh chicken
with his head cut off is whatthey feel like, right?
Like they are burdened becausethey feel like they have to keep
working at this very fast pace,they're juggling a lot of balls
(03:10):
in the air, and they feel thatif they don't keep going at this
rate, and even though they'reexhausted, usually overwhelmed,
um, if they don't keep going atthat rate, then it will be at
the detriment of their team'ssuccess or the organization's
success as a whole.
So it actually feels like atrap.
Um, then there's othersituations where their teams
(03:33):
might be underperforming andthey aren't knowing how they can
possibly motivate them to keeptheir performance up or increase
their performance.
Um, there's also a lot ofchange happening in an
organization, and especially bigchanges are when executive
coaches can come into the fold.
So think of when a companyculture is going from a 4-1
(03:55):
hybrid model to a 3-2, or um,like four days out of the office
and one day in the office, thenat three days out of the office
and two days in, right?
That there can be a lot ofresistance and uh backlash if
the leaders aren't mindful ofhow to use some of their
leadership skills and know someacumen around leadership to be
(04:15):
able to prevent challenges fromhappening.
Um, there's also like whenmergers and acquisitions are
happening, when there's anorganizational restructure, a
huge growth phase, a downsizing,any of these big changes, the
leaders often don't know whatthey don't know on how it means
their role will be evolving, butmore so how they could evolve
(04:38):
and develop for where theorganization's going.
And that's really where we comein.
So we we tend to, or I tend todo a tailored customized
development track to identifywell, what ingredients about
this organization and thissituation or this situations and
this person uh do we need toput into their development track
(04:59):
and in what order and make surethat we can have this person
digest it in the best waypossible.
David Saltzman (05:06):
Do leaders who don't know what they don't know
cause damage sometimes?
Jenna Dillon (05:10):
Absolutely.
I mean, we're human, right?
So every person doesn't knowwhat they don't know, right?
And so part of having a soundleadership team can help that.
And when you have an executivecoach being a neutral party
that's third, that that'soutside the organization, and
they have certain, I'll justkeep using the word, uh,
(05:32):
business acumen, leadershipacumen, even knowledge around
executive presence that perhapslike leaders don't know very
it's funny.
Every leader I meet withexecutive presence, some of them
just have it, and others, youknow, they can see others that
don't.
But what do you ask mostleaders to define executive
presence, they can't, right?
So that's what I mean, likeexecutive presence from like a
(05:54):
technical standpoint, butnevertheless, like they don't if
they don't know what they don'tknow in areas that they can
develop or even have knowledgein to apply, then they could
unintentionally be causing a lotof friction or a lot of damage
that can cost the organization atremendous amount of not just
challenges but money and timeamongst their people.
David Saltzman (06:17):
So if I'm an advisor and I'm running my own
practice, what are some of thethings?
I mean, how does how does theneed for executive coaching
manifest itself?
What signs should I be lookingfor where I go, you know what, I
could use some help with this.
Let me call up Jenna.
Jenna Dillon (06:33):
Yeah, so I mentioned one earlier around how
they they can feel like they'realmost in this trap and they
don't know how to get out of it,right?
Like how they're overworked andhave to feel like they keep
hustling.
Um, but if they slow down, it'sat the detriment of everyone,
but they're exhausted, you know,so it's a trap.
Uh there's another version of atrap where uh they uh I've seen
(06:54):
people do this and I find itfascinating uh just from a
behavioral standpoint, where II'll call it a little uh
depending on their role.
They if they're anentrepreneur, I'll call it a
business affair.
Uh but if they're exhausted oruh in that similar trap I
mentioned, um, but the way thatthey cope is they go, oh, you
(07:14):
know what, there's a lot ofchaos happening with this team
or with this organization or orwith this project.
So you know what?
I'm just gonna I'm just gonnaput it to the s, I'm just gonna
put it to the side, hope itfigures itself out, and I'm
gonna go start a new project, orI'm gonna go start a new
business, or I'm gonna go starta and I'll focus my time on
that.
And then I call it a littlelike affair, whether it's a
project affair, a businessaffair, initiative affair, like
(07:34):
whatever you want to call it.
And then they just startfocusing their time there
because that's exciting andthat's novel and that's new.
And so they want to make surethat's successful because over
here, this thing that they wereworking on, um, they don't know
what to do about it.
And so they're gonnaprocrastinate, right?
So they might catch themselvesin that situation.
Um, another, and this is moresurface, uh, I find, you know,
(07:56):
what part of my job is torecognize how these leaders or
these individuals that I'mworking with are limiting
themselves.
And of course, most peopledon't want to be limiting
themselves, right?
So they don't realize that theyare.
And so on the surface, versuslike I'm talking about really
deep-rooted, you know,narratives before.
(08:17):
Uh, if you catch yourselfhaving persistent complaints or
judgments or opinions that younotice are like on a broken
record, um, look at that.
You know, there's somethingthat I say often when I'm
training uh with teams or withuh leaders, that our opinions,
(08:38):
our judgments, our assumptionscan reveal our own
self-limitations.
They also reveal what we careabout.
Um, but to be able to recognizeand just kind of reflect like,
do you have any of thosepersistent judgments or
complaints or you know, opinionsor assumptions that keep coming
that you're thinking or makingit seem like reality or like a
(09:02):
fact, right?
Um it's it's it's a little alittle surface level cue, if you
will.
David Saltzman (09:09):
You know, it's interesting.
Most leaders that I've run intoin my career are not that
self-aware.
Jenna Dillon (09:14):
Uh-huh.
David Saltzman (09:16):
How how do you even get somebody to the point
where that where I mean, is thatkind of an aha moment for folks
when you talk about that?
Jenna Dillon (09:24):
Yeah.
It it absolutely can be.
And I would say a majority ofthem are.
And part of that, I mean, I'llbe real honest with you, David,
and I'm sure you can relate tothis because I feel like anybody
at any point can relate to thisstate uh that I'll mention is
when we get in a fast pace,whether we put ourselves in a
fast pace or the environmentcalls for us to be at a fat fast
(09:48):
pace, we are going so fast thatit's like we're missing the
side streets.
So we're we're kind of creatingunintentionally blind spots
because we're going so fast.
And so part of what I find isso fascinating and also a
privilege for me to witness in aconversation with my clients is
(10:08):
part of my job in the contextof a conversation is to slow
their brain down.
And for them to be able tothink through some things that
sometimes they haven't thoughtabout before.
And so, yeah, like it can bevery insightful for them.
It can help them recognizethings that they weren't
recognizing, build thatawareness that you mentioned.
(10:29):
It can be from an emotionalintelligence standpoint on how
they are relating to things intheir life that they didn't
realize.
It can be how they weretreating themselves around their
work ethic or their ownperformance or their teams.
It can be a number of differentthings.
And so, yeah, I mean, buildingthat awareness is step one.
Then knowing how to look at,well, the way that you're, the
(10:53):
way that you are viewing this,is it helping you or is it
inhibiting you?
And then how can we move fromthere?
Like how can we view this in adifferent way?
Or what training or knowledgecan we include that we didn't
realize or that you didn'trealize could be helpful or that
you didn't have, right?
Uh and then from there we gointo okay, new application.
David Saltzman (11:12):
One of the biggest misconceptions about
coaching is um is that it's tooexpensive.
Um, some people feel it'stouchy-feely, um, and it's only
for executives at Fortune 500companies.
How do you address those?
Jenna Dillon (11:26):
Yeah, that's a great question, and I really
appreciate it because it'ssomething I I happen to be quite
passionate about in my career,is helping inform my audience
more about it and making itaccessible.
So um I feel like in this dayand age, it's pretty fair, it's
a pretty fair statement to saythe term coaching is a trendy
term.
So there are more and morecoaches coming out into the
(11:48):
ether for people to know andhave access to.
When you're looking at anexecutive coach or a business
coach, um, they likely, I mean,they they should have the
training of how to look attangible results, like with what
the individual leader ororganization is looking to have
(12:09):
them accomplish.
Uh, the executive coach shouldbe able to know how to track and
get clear on trackingmeasurable results in their
progress.
Um, that is a personal uhopinion or decision that I make
uh before signing a dotted linewith a client in an engagement.
Is we get clear, well, what arethe results that you want to
(12:31):
accomplish from working withcoach, from coaching and
tangible, measurable results,not just like, you know, this is
very uh valid for someone tosay, I want to feel comfortable
and confident speaking in frontof a larger team and getting
used to facilitating meetings.
That's very valid, and there'snot really measurable results
(12:53):
there.
So sometimes the individual oreven organization needs to
understand how do we translatethat into results.
So one, you can get a return onthe investment, two, you can
make a sound decision on nowthat we have that result clear,
is this a sound investment?
Like you can make that decisionmore clearly, right?
So I would strongly suggestthat people look at coaching as
(13:18):
something to give you money andtime and energy far back from
what you're putting in it.
If you aren't looking at itthat way as a tool, you're going
to innately leave value on thetable in the engagement.
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And now, back to ourconversation.
(14:39):
Jenna, one of the things thatyou mentioned in our
pre-interview was that youthought it might be valuable for
advisors to mention theopportunity for executive
coaching to the clients they'reworking with.
I know, you know, I I I soldeyeball to eyeball, toenail to
toenail for the first 20 yearsof my career.
It it would have been anuncomfortable conversation
(15:00):
because that's not somethingthat I normally think about.
How would an advisor includethat in what they're talking to
clients about?
And how would they broach it soit doesn't feel weird?
Jenna Dillon (15:10):
Yeah, I I appreciate your question.
So often when I am buildingstrategic referral partnerships
with insurance brokers, uh,they, if they know what I do,
then they can spot differentthings happening in an
organization where it's a cuethat they could use an executive
coach.
And I'll give an example.
So one would be when there's alot of claims happening and the
(15:33):
employees are feeling a littledisgruntled based off of how
many claims are happening, uh,that can be a cue that the
leadership can uh have somesupport to either build their
leadership in a way where theyare making sure the employees
that are below them that they'reoverseen are feeling taken care
of and cared for.
Well, for for someone toapproach, for an insurance
(15:55):
broker to approach a top leaderaround something like that, um,
they can pose it as rather thanactually let me let me actually
slow that down.
I was gonna say rather thanfocusing on the things that they
might be lacking in, focus onthe the positive things that
they could get.
Um, and I was slow slowing thisdown because uh what most
(16:17):
people may or may not reallyunderstand is our brains are
wired with a negativity bias,because it our main purpose for
our brain is to keep us alive.
And so we're gonna be lookingfor perceived threats, we're
gonna look for gaps and issuesand problems naturally.
Like it's how our brain wire soour brain isn't wired to keep
(16:38):
us happy, folks.
It's it's wired to keep usalive.
Uh, and so because of thatnegativity bias, I think most
referral partners, when they'refirst looking at what a coach
offers, they'll go, Oh, I don'tknow how to approach a leader
around getting if they wouldeven want to be introduced to a
coach because I don't want themto feel like I'm telling them
they're doing something wrong ordoing something bad or could do
(17:00):
it better, right?
Now, that's natural for someoneto think that, but focus on
what they could get out of it.
You know, so you you mentionfacts.
Hey, I noticed I'm noticingthat you have these claims here,
and um, I imagine you wouldn'twant to have this many claims
coming through.
Is that right?
So that's a fact.
And then you're checking tomake sure that, like, you know,
(17:23):
your perception is like on par.
Then you say, well, I actuallyknow somebody who helps leaders
learn how they can have thosebecome less and less, how they
can have less claims happen andhave an organization flow
seamlessly that actually ends upsaving them money overall
throughout the year.
Because let's face it, onething that insurance brokers are
(17:44):
often getting as theirobjections in working with
clients is the price point, isthe expense.
It's one of the biggestoverhead expenses uh that a
company will have.
And so that's what they'refacing as an objection on a
regular basis is how can youmake these premiums less?
Well, guess what?
If you're gonna help yourclients, insurance brokers, help
(18:06):
your clients have less expensesand overhead, that's an easy
insert of going, hey, um, we canhelp your margins look better
over time by having thisresource, right?
So there's a little bit of waysthat some of the same
objections insurance brokerscould be facing, there's a
solution to the objection byusing these other advisors or
(18:30):
executive coaches, uh, trustedadvisors is the word I was
looking for, as executivecoaches to come into the fold.
David Saltzman (18:37):
So, what what might a strong referral
partnership between an insuranceadvisor and an executive coach
look like?
And how can advisors build therelationships again without
feeling as though they'reselling something extra?
Jenna Dillon (18:50):
Right.
Well, I think I'll first startoff by saying uh what a trust,
what I believe a trusted advisoris.
And I think that's important toestablish uh and get clear on
from one professional to anotherwhen you are building a
partnership is okay, what are wecalling?
What do we really want toaccomplish in this partnership
together?
(19:10):
And how do we, what kind ofvalue do we want to be and bring
to our clients?
And as a trusted advisor, whatdoes that mean to you?
Well, for me, it means I amgoing to be having a holistic
approach of understanding whatmy clients are going through and
experiencing so that I'm notfocused just on my lane.
If there's other things outsidemy lane that I can introduce
(19:32):
them to and have access to,great.
Because if I can bring morevalue by introducing them to
these wonderful, very competentprofessionals, then I'm gonna
build more loyalty, more trustwith my clients.
And they uh will see that andhave seen that as a very unique
(19:53):
value proposition that not allexecutive coaches have.
Uh, and so same with uh theseinsurance brokers is with the
more you can stand out as atrusted advisor in this way and
bring solid introductions andshow your clients how much
you're really listening andthinking and helping to problem
(20:13):
solve in areas that they mightnot even realize they are going
to directly or even indirectlyvalue you more.
Um, so in terms of what anideal referral partnership can
look like, um, it can be around,like I understand for we can't
just poof create a prospect, youknow, out of thin air for to
(20:34):
introduce somebody to.
So then you can get creative.
Well, what are other ways inthe meantime that one, I can
build my antennas?
Two, what are unique questionsI can ask my clients if I'm
talking to an insuranceinsurance worker, what are
unique questions I can ask myown clients to help me
understand if if and when theycould use you?
What are the things for me tokeep kind of staying afloat or
(20:56):
monitoring, right?
Um so you can build thoseantennas.
Secondly, is while you're inthe middle of building your own
practice or your own book ofbusiness, what are your main
goals?
What are you focused on?
Because perhaps outside ofconnecting you to a prospective
client out of thin air, which Iwish I could do, perhaps there's
other ways that I can give youexposure to prospective clients
(21:19):
and not just through anintroduction to a prospect
that's like, oops, strike willof iron's hot, right?
So talk to me, like how howelse are you getting clients?
Or do you want to bounce offideas of how to build your
exposure and accessibility oreven authority?
Is there leverage that youcould understand how to build
business within the clients thatyou have?
(21:40):
Uh, and can we talk about that,right?
So there's a number ofdifferent directions that the
leverage of an executive coach,like they know all the way that
I'm thinking about this and theway the things that I'm
mentioning of ways to leverage,they're great at this if they're
good at their job.
So you can leverage that in aconversation and building a
referral partnership that canbenefit you in more ways than
(22:01):
just getting a prospectiveclient introduction.
David Saltzman (22:04):
So, last question.
As the workplace evolves, youknow, we've got hybrid work, AI,
shifting employer expectations.
How do you see executivecoaches becoming even more
relevant for advisors andperhaps for their clients in the
next few years?
Jenna Dillon (22:17):
Incredibly.
I feel like every passing year,or I would even say season, my
clients are feeling like thestakes are continuing to get
higher.
And I don't think that's goinganywhere anytime soon because
especially with AI coming intothe play, there's more things to
stay on top of AI, and AI isgonna keep evolving very quickly
(22:41):
because it it has continued todo that, and that's that's not
stopping, right?
So, because on one hand, youcan look at stakes being high,
what is called for the leadersis not just how you can stay on
top of it, but how can you standout and build influence and
leadership with it?
And that answering thatquestion gets more harder for
(23:06):
any human who is also feelinglike the stakes are higher.
And so an executive coach helpsdismantle, if you will, and
recalibrate their thinking andways to innovate and get
creative to stand out, to usethe fact that things are
changing and how to leverage andfind opportunity within it.
(23:27):
And again, they're helping themthink outside the box because
they are that outside neutralparty.
And so it'll be all the more, Imean, dare I say necessary to
have an executive coach as timecontinues, not just looked at as
a, oh, this is a bonus or thisis a nice perk to have
temporarily.
David Saltzman (23:48):
And that's a great place to end our
conversation for today.
Jenna Dillon, executive coachand founder of the Executive
Performance Institute forCoaching.
Jenna, thanks so much for yourinsight.
Jenna Dillon (23:57):
Thank you so much for having me.
Announcer (24:00):
The Shift Shapers Podcast is a production of Shift
Shaper strategies and may notbe reproduced or quoted in whole
or in part without our expresswritten permission.
Copyright 2020, all rightsreserved.
What is executive coaching?
And how could it add value foradvisors and maybe even for
their clients?
We'll find out on this episodeof Shift Shapers.
Announcer (00:12):
This is the Shift Shapers Podcast, connecting
benefits advisors with thoughtleaders and entrepreneurs who
are shaping the shifts in theindustry.
And now, here's your host,David Saltzman.
David Saltzman (00:25):
And to help us answer that question, we're
joined by Jenna Dillon.
Jenna is founder of theExecutive Performance Institute
for Coaching.
And we're going to talk todayabout how insurance advisors can
use executive coaching as atool for business growth, both
for themselves and maybe evenfor their clients.
Hey Jenna, how are you today?
Jenna Dillon (00:42):
Hello, I'm great.
Thank you.
How are you?
David Saltzman (00:45):
I am awesome.
Awesome.
So let's let's dive right in.
First, let's talk aboutdefining the problem.
And a lot of advisors, and uh,we've all heard the term
executive coaching, but maybe wedon't all fully understand it.
So, how do you f defineexecutive coaching and what
should insurance advisors payattention to in the first place?
Jenna Dillon (01:04):
Yeah, I I would say executive coaching is, I'll
first say it's not lifecoaching, uh, in that we're
focused on professional pursuitsthat that individual we're
coaching one-on-one wants toaccomplish.
And so with that being said, Itend to, in my executive
coaching practice, focusstrictly on top leaders, so
(01:26):
chief officers and businessowners, uh leading executives,
and then there's alsoprofessionals who will be like
their own boss and essentiallythe CEO of themselves, right?
So those types of folks.
Now, executive coaching isoften when we're working
one-on-one to help leaders buildboth their discretion, their
(01:49):
thought process, and theirdiscernment, their decision
making and how they're actingupon their decisions from a
psyche perspective.
Um, while we are also buildingtheir executive presence, their
technical skills and businessacumen, all of these things
we're looking to incorporate inour conversations so that
(02:10):
they're developing skills to beultimately successful and not
just accomplishing what thedesired outcomes are or goals
are that they want to, but alsoso that they can navigate the
challenging stakes that theyhave in front of them.
David Saltzman (02:24):
So, what are the most common leadership or
organizational challenges,whichever or both, you see in
business today, especially thosethat insurance advisors might
serve, and how do thosechallenges show up in real time
and day-to-day activities?
Jenna Dillon (02:37):
Yeah, you're looking for lead like
leadership, what the leadersmight be facing individually, or
what the organization might befacing as a whole.
David Saltzman (02:46):
I mean, both.
Do executive coaches work onboth of those realms?
Jenna Dillon (02:49):
We do.
We we absolutely do.
And so I'll I'll first startwith individuals.
So um often they are there's athere's a number of different
things.
So uh often they're uh eitherrunning around like uh chicken
with his head cut off is whatthey feel like, right?
Like they are burdened becausethey feel like they have to keep
working at this very fast pace,they're juggling a lot of balls
(03:10):
in the air, and they feel thatif they don't keep going at this
rate, and even though they'reexhausted, usually overwhelmed,
um, if they don't keep going atthat rate, then it will be at
the detriment of their team'ssuccess or the organization's
success as a whole.
So it actually feels like atrap.
Um, then there's othersituations where their teams
(03:33):
might be underperforming andthey aren't knowing how they can
possibly motivate them to keeptheir performance up or increase
their performance.
Um, there's also a lot ofchange happening in an
organization, and especially bigchanges are when executive
coaches can come into the fold.
So think of when a companyculture is going from a 4-1
(03:55):
hybrid model to a 3-2, or um,like four days out of the office
and one day in the office, thenat three days out of the office
and two days in, right?
That there can be a lot ofresistance and uh backlash if
the leaders aren't mindful ofhow to use some of their
leadership skills and know someacumen around leadership to be
(04:15):
able to prevent challenges fromhappening.
Um, there's also like whenmergers and acquisitions are
happening, when there's anorganizational restructure, a
huge growth phase, a downsizing,any of these big changes, the
leaders often don't know whatthey don't know on how it means
their role will be evolving, butmore so how they could evolve
(04:38):
and develop for where theorganization's going.
And that's really where we comein.
So we we tend to, or I tend todo a tailored customized
development track to identifywell, what ingredients about
this organization and thissituation or this situations and
this person uh do we need toput into their development track
(04:59):
and in what order and make surethat we can have this person
digest it in the best waypossible.
David Saltzman (05:06):
Do leaders who don't know what they don't know
cause damage sometimes?
Jenna Dillon (05:10):
Absolutely.
I mean, we're human, right?
So every person doesn't knowwhat they don't know, right?
And so part of having a soundleadership team can help that.
And when you have an executivecoach being a neutral party
that's third, that that'soutside the organization, and
they have certain, I'll justkeep using the word, uh,
(05:32):
business acumen, leadershipacumen, even knowledge around
executive presence that perhapslike leaders don't know very
it's funny.
Every leader I meet withexecutive presence, some of them
just have it, and others, youknow, they can see others that
don't.
But what do you ask mostleaders to define executive
presence, they can't, right?
So that's what I mean, likeexecutive presence from like a
(05:54):
technical standpoint, butnevertheless, like they don't if
they don't know what they don'tknow in areas that they can
develop or even have knowledgein to apply, then they could
unintentionally be causing a lotof friction or a lot of damage
that can cost the organization atremendous amount of not just
challenges but money and timeamongst their people.
David Saltzman (06:17):
So if I'm an advisor and I'm running my own
practice, what are some of thethings?
I mean, how does how does theneed for executive coaching
manifest itself?
What signs should I be lookingfor where I go, you know what, I
could use some help with this.
Let me call up Jenna.
Jenna Dillon (06:33):
Yeah, so I mentioned one earlier around how
they they can feel like they'realmost in this trap and they
don't know how to get out of it,right?
Like how they're overworked andhave to feel like they keep
hustling.
Um, but if they slow down, it'sat the detriment of everyone,
but they're exhausted, you know,so it's a trap.
Uh there's another version of atrap where uh they uh I've seen
(06:54):
people do this and I find itfascinating uh just from a
behavioral standpoint, where II'll call it a little uh
depending on their role.
They if they're anentrepreneur, I'll call it a
business affair.
Uh but if they're exhausted oruh in that similar trap I
mentioned, um, but the way thatthey cope is they go, oh, you
(07:14):
know what, there's a lot ofchaos happening with this team
or with this organization or orwith this project.
So you know what?
I'm just gonna I'm just gonnaput it to the s, I'm just gonna
put it to the side, hope itfigures itself out, and I'm
gonna go start a new project, orI'm gonna go start a new
business, or I'm gonna go starta and I'll focus my time on
that.
And then I call it a littlelike affair, whether it's a
project affair, a businessaffair, initiative affair, like
(07:34):
whatever you want to call it.
And then they just startfocusing their time there
because that's exciting andthat's novel and that's new.
And so they want to make surethat's successful because over
here, this thing that they wereworking on, um, they don't know
what to do about it.
And so they're gonnaprocrastinate, right?
So they might catch themselvesin that situation.
Um, another, and this is moresurface, uh, I find, you know,
(07:56):
what part of my job is torecognize how these leaders or
these individuals that I'mworking with are limiting
themselves.
And of course, most peopledon't want to be limiting
themselves, right?
So they don't realize that theyare.
And so on the surface, versuslike I'm talking about really
deep-rooted, you know,narratives before.
(08:17):
Uh, if you catch yourselfhaving persistent complaints or
judgments or opinions that younotice are like on a broken
record, um, look at that.
You know, there's somethingthat I say often when I'm
training uh with teams or withuh leaders, that our opinions,
(08:38):
our judgments, our assumptionscan reveal our own
self-limitations.
They also reveal what we careabout.
Um, but to be able to recognizeand just kind of reflect like,
do you have any of thosepersistent judgments or
complaints or you know, opinionsor assumptions that keep coming
that you're thinking or makingit seem like reality or like a
(09:02):
fact, right?
Um it's it's it's a little alittle surface level cue, if you
will.
David Saltzman (09:09):
You know, it's interesting.
Most leaders that I've run intoin my career are not that
self-aware.
Jenna Dillon (09:14):
Uh-huh.
David Saltzman (09:16):
How how do you even get somebody to the point
where that where I mean, is thatkind of an aha moment for folks
when you talk about that?
Jenna Dillon (09:24):
Yeah.
It it absolutely can be.
And I would say a majority ofthem are.
And part of that, I mean, I'llbe real honest with you, David,
and I'm sure you can relate tothis because I feel like anybody
at any point can relate to thisstate uh that I'll mention is
when we get in a fast pace,whether we put ourselves in a
fast pace or the environmentcalls for us to be at a fat fast
(09:48):
pace, we are going so fast thatit's like we're missing the
side streets.
So we're we're kind of creatingunintentionally blind spots
because we're going so fast.
And so part of what I find isso fascinating and also a
privilege for me to witness in aconversation with my clients is
(10:08):
part of my job in the contextof a conversation is to slow
their brain down.
And for them to be able tothink through some things that
sometimes they haven't thoughtabout before.
And so, yeah, like it can bevery insightful for them.
It can help them recognizethings that they weren't
recognizing, build thatawareness that you mentioned.
(10:29):
It can be from an emotionalintelligence standpoint on how
they are relating to things intheir life that they didn't
realize.
It can be how they weretreating themselves around their
work ethic or their ownperformance or their teams.
It can be a number of differentthings.
And so, yeah, I mean, buildingthat awareness is step one.
Then knowing how to look at,well, the way that you're, the
(10:53):
way that you are viewing this,is it helping you or is it
inhibiting you?
And then how can we move fromthere?
Like how can we view this in adifferent way?
Or what training or knowledgecan we include that we didn't
realize or that you didn'trealize could be helpful or that
you didn't have, right?
Uh and then from there we gointo okay, new application.
David Saltzman (11:12):
One of the biggest misconceptions about
coaching is um is that it's tooexpensive.
Um, some people feel it'stouchy-feely, um, and it's only
for executives at Fortune 500companies.
How do you address those?
Jenna Dillon (11:26):
Yeah, that's a great question, and I really
appreciate it because it'ssomething I I happen to be quite
passionate about in my career,is helping inform my audience
more about it and making itaccessible.
So um I feel like in this dayand age, it's pretty fair, it's
a pretty fair statement to saythe term coaching is a trendy
term.
So there are more and morecoaches coming out into the
(11:48):
ether for people to know andhave access to.
When you're looking at anexecutive coach or a business
coach, um, they likely, I mean,they they should have the
training of how to look attangible results, like with what
the individual leader ororganization is looking to have
(12:09):
them accomplish.
Uh, the executive coach shouldbe able to know how to track and
get clear on trackingmeasurable results in their
progress.
Um, that is a personal uhopinion or decision that I make
uh before signing a dotted linewith a client in an engagement.
Is we get clear, well, what arethe results that you want to
(12:31):
accomplish from working withcoach, from coaching and
tangible, measurable results,not just like, you know, this is
very uh valid for someone tosay, I want to feel comfortable
and confident speaking in frontof a larger team and getting
used to facilitating meetings.
That's very valid, and there'snot really measurable results
(12:53):
there.
So sometimes the individual oreven organization needs to
understand how do we translatethat into results.
So one, you can get a return onthe investment, two, you can
make a sound decision on nowthat we have that result clear,
is this a sound investment?
Like you can make that decisionmore clearly, right?
So I would strongly suggestthat people look at coaching as
(13:18):
something to give you money andtime and energy far back from
what you're putting in it.
If you aren't looking at itthat way as a tool, you're going
to innately leave value on thetable in the engagement.
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And now, back to ourconversation.
(14:39):
Jenna, one of the things thatyou mentioned in our
pre-interview was that youthought it might be valuable for
advisors to mention theopportunity for executive
coaching to the clients they'reworking with.
I know, you know, I I I soldeyeball to eyeball, toenail to
toenail for the first 20 yearsof my career.
It it would have been anuncomfortable conversation
(15:00):
because that's not somethingthat I normally think about.
How would an advisor includethat in what they're talking to
clients about?
And how would they broach it soit doesn't feel weird?
Jenna Dillon (15:10):
Yeah, I I appreciate your question.
So often when I am buildingstrategic referral partnerships
with insurance brokers, uh,they, if they know what I do,
then they can spot differentthings happening in an
organization where it's a cuethat they could use an executive
coach.
And I'll give an example.
So one would be when there's alot of claims happening and the
(15:33):
employees are feeling a littledisgruntled based off of how
many claims are happening, uh,that can be a cue that the
leadership can uh have somesupport to either build their
leadership in a way where theyare making sure the employees
that are below them that they'reoverseen are feeling taken care
of and cared for.
Well, for for someone toapproach, for an insurance
(15:55):
broker to approach a top leaderaround something like that, um,
they can pose it as rather thanactually let me let me actually
slow that down.
I was gonna say rather thanfocusing on the things that they
might be lacking in, focus onthe the positive things that
they could get.
Um, and I was slow slowing thisdown because uh what most
(16:17):
people may or may not reallyunderstand is our brains are
wired with a negativity bias,because it our main purpose for
our brain is to keep us alive.
And so we're gonna be lookingfor perceived threats, we're
gonna look for gaps and issuesand problems naturally.
Like it's how our brain wire soour brain isn't wired to keep
(16:38):
us happy, folks.
It's it's wired to keep usalive.
Uh, and so because of thatnegativity bias, I think most
referral partners, when they'refirst looking at what a coach
offers, they'll go, Oh, I don'tknow how to approach a leader
around getting if they wouldeven want to be introduced to a
coach because I don't want themto feel like I'm telling them
they're doing something wrong ordoing something bad or could do
(17:00):
it better, right?
Now, that's natural for someoneto think that, but focus on
what they could get out of it.
You know, so you you mentionfacts.
Hey, I noticed I'm noticingthat you have these claims here,
and um, I imagine you wouldn'twant to have this many claims
coming through.
Is that right?
So that's a fact.
And then you're checking tomake sure that, like, you know,
(17:23):
your perception is like on par.
Then you say, well, I actuallyknow somebody who helps leaders
learn how they can have thosebecome less and less, how they
can have less claims happen andhave an organization flow
seamlessly that actually ends upsaving them money overall
throughout the year.
Because let's face it, onething that insurance brokers are
(17:44):
often getting as theirobjections in working with
clients is the price point, isthe expense.
It's one of the biggestoverhead expenses uh that a
company will have.
And so that's what they'refacing as an objection on a
regular basis is how can youmake these premiums less?
Well, guess what?
If you're gonna help yourclients, insurance brokers, help
(18:06):
your clients have less expensesand overhead, that's an easy
insert of going, hey, um, we canhelp your margins look better
over time by having thisresource, right?
So there's a little bit of waysthat some of the same
objections insurance brokerscould be facing, there's a
solution to the objection byusing these other advisors or
(18:30):
executive coaches, uh, trustedadvisors is the word I was
looking for, as executivecoaches to come into the fold.
David Saltzman (18:37):
So, what what might a strong referral
partnership between an insuranceadvisor and an executive coach
look like?
And how can advisors build therelationships again without
feeling as though they'reselling something extra?
Jenna Dillon (18:50):
Right.
Well, I think I'll first startoff by saying uh what a trust,
what I believe a trusted advisoris.
And I think that's important toestablish uh and get clear on
from one professional to anotherwhen you are building a
partnership is okay, what are wecalling?
What do we really want toaccomplish in this partnership
together?
(19:10):
And how do we, what kind ofvalue do we want to be and bring
to our clients?
And as a trusted advisor, whatdoes that mean to you?
Well, for me, it means I amgoing to be having a holistic
approach of understanding whatmy clients are going through and
experiencing so that I'm notfocused just on my lane.
If there's other things outsidemy lane that I can introduce
(19:32):
them to and have access to,great.
Because if I can bring morevalue by introducing them to
these wonderful, very competentprofessionals, then I'm gonna
build more loyalty, more trustwith my clients.
And they uh will see that andhave seen that as a very unique
(19:53):
value proposition that not allexecutive coaches have.
Uh, and so same with uh theseinsurance brokers is with the
more you can stand out as atrusted advisor in this way and
bring solid introductions andshow your clients how much
you're really listening andthinking and helping to problem
(20:13):
solve in areas that they mightnot even realize they are going
to directly or even indirectlyvalue you more.
Um, so in terms of what anideal referral partnership can
look like, um, it can be around,like I understand for we can't
just poof create a prospect, youknow, out of thin air for to
(20:34):
introduce somebody to.
So then you can get creative.
Well, what are other ways inthe meantime that one, I can
build my antennas?
Two, what are unique questionsI can ask my clients if I'm
talking to an insuranceinsurance worker, what are
unique questions I can ask myown clients to help me
understand if if and when theycould use you?
What are the things for me tokeep kind of staying afloat or
(20:56):
monitoring, right?
Um so you can build thoseantennas.
Secondly, is while you're inthe middle of building your own
practice or your own book ofbusiness, what are your main
goals?
What are you focused on?
Because perhaps outside ofconnecting you to a prospective
client out of thin air, which Iwish I could do, perhaps there's
other ways that I can give youexposure to prospective clients
(21:19):
and not just through anintroduction to a prospect
that's like, oops, strike willof iron's hot, right?
So talk to me, like how howelse are you getting clients?
Or do you want to bounce offideas of how to build your
exposure and accessibility oreven authority?
Is there leverage that youcould understand how to build
business within the clients thatyou have?
(21:40):
Uh, and can we talk about that,right?
So there's a number ofdifferent directions that the
leverage of an executive coach,like they know all the way that
I'm thinking about this and theway the things that I'm
mentioning of ways to leverage,they're great at this if they're
good at their job.
So you can leverage that in aconversation and building a
referral partnership that canbenefit you in more ways than
(22:01):
just getting a prospectiveclient introduction.
David Saltzman (22:04):
So, last question.
As the workplace evolves, youknow, we've got hybrid work, AI,
shifting employer expectations.
How do you see executivecoaches becoming even more
relevant for advisors andperhaps for their clients in the
next few years?
Jenna Dillon (22:17):
Incredibly.
I feel like every passing year,or I would even say season, my
clients are feeling like thestakes are continuing to get
higher.
And I don't think that's goinganywhere anytime soon because
especially with AI coming intothe play, there's more things to
stay on top of AI, and AI isgonna keep evolving very quickly
(22:41):
because it it has continued todo that, and that's that's not
stopping, right?
So, because on one hand, youcan look at stakes being high,
what is called for the leadersis not just how you can stay on
top of it, but how can you standout and build influence and
leadership with it?
And that answering thatquestion gets more harder for
(23:06):
any human who is also feelinglike the stakes are higher.
And so an executive coach helpsdismantle, if you will, and
recalibrate their thinking andways to innovate and get
creative to stand out, to usethe fact that things are
changing and how to leverage andfind opportunity within it.
(23:27):
And again, they're helping themthink outside the box because
they are that outside neutralparty.
And so it'll be all the more, Imean, dare I say necessary to
have an executive coach as timecontinues, not just looked at as
a, oh, this is a bonus or thisis a nice perk to have
temporarily.
David Saltzman (23:48):
And that's a great place to end our
conversation for today.
Jenna Dillon, executive coachand founder of the Executive
Performance Institute forCoaching.
Jenna, thanks so much for yourinsight.
Jenna Dillon (23:57):
Thank you so much for having me.
Announcer (24:00):
The Shift Shapers Podcast is a production of Shift
Shaper strategies and may notbe reproduced or quoted in whole
or in part without our expresswritten permission.
Copyright 2020, all rightsreserved.
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