BIG TEN PREVIEW 2025: Contender Tiers, Predictions, Weird Little Stinkers & the Purcenaries | College Football Podcast - The Solid Verbal College Football

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the solid verbal hull. That for me, I'm
a man, I'm forty. I've heard so many players say, well,
I want to be happy. You want to be happy
for day Ato steak? Is that whoo whoo? And no
Dan and Tye Dan Rubinstein, welcome back. Today is the
day let's talk some Big ten. My friend, how are

(00:25):
you who? I'm good, ty I'm very good. I am
quite excited to talk about the Big ten. I know
you are excited because you were just like, I want
more teams. Gimme them twenty two Big ten teams. Give
me twenty seven Big ten teams. Maybe Memphis has four
hundred million dollars they have lying around that they can
offer to the Big ten. You love.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
This is quantity in quantity right, this is this is
the Creatine conference. This is the I don't remember which
reality show it was, maybe like The Bachelor or one
guy was just eating turkey slices.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
He's like the most efficient way to get protein in.
This is bulk for bulks. Welcome to the Big ten.
This is bulk for frustration's sake. I don't know if
you felt this way going through it. It's the second
year of course, now that we have all these teams
eighteen in the Big Ten. I felt this palpable sense
of frustration going through putting together my notes on all

(01:16):
of these teams. There are so many damn teams in
this conference. There are so many damn teams. It's gonna
be a fun conference. We're excited about. We're going to
talk through all of that here as we get into
our tiers and some of the storylines and things like
that on this episode. So we're excited about the Big Ten.
But man, they almost are at the point where they
do need to add two more teams and then break

(01:36):
it apart and have an East and a West, you know,
like create a new Pac ten now that they're branching
off and creating another Pac twelve, the Pacific division of
the Big Ten. Yeah, we need to have some sort
of setup to make this a little bit more digestible.
Perhaps that is the reason for today's show, my friend,
welcome back to you, Welcome back to all of the

(01:58):
overballer hood. Go back. Can listen to the G five
previews we did, the ACC previews we did, the Big
twelve previews that we did today is part one of
our three part Big Ten previews series on Today's show.
It's the higher level stuff, the big talking points, the
water cooler moments that you know you want to have

(02:18):
at the ready if you're at the office or just
out and about the town. Something that you can kick
around with the boys, m M, contender tiers, you name it.
That's Today's show. As we get into part two and three,
that's where we're aready get into team previews. So hit follow,
hit subscribe, you don't want to miss those episodes. Verbalers
dot com v E R B A L L e

(02:39):
r s dot com. That's where you get the ad
free episodes, the bonus content. You get everything. A little
bit early. Games are going to be spinning up as
we get a little bit closer to the season. I
will shut up now. That is too long of a diatribe. Dance, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
I just want to know your thoughts about the Big
Ten in general. So this was a terrific year for
the Big Ten last season in that they were another
conference in which a new team at the very least
competed for the Conference Crown Oregon ended up winning it
as a new team. Of course, SMU was seconds away
in the acc ASU won the Big twelve and Texas

(03:14):
was seconds away in the SEC, and so it was
a novel year, of course, in adding LA schools, Washington
and Oregon officially on the field last year, and the
Big Ten had emerging teams like Indiana and Illinois that
they seemed to be the premium conference nationally after the

(03:34):
SEC seemed to take a step back both in terms
of teams who did and didn't make the playoff. And
this is always going to change, you know, one year
does not affect the next necessarily, but it did seem
like twenty twenty four via those stories that Northwestern had
the waste management open stadium on the water like it

(03:56):
was just a good year for Big Ten weirdness, narrative
and in some cases excellence. And so I want to
know how you feel in the shadow of that.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Well, and not to mention a Big Ten team won
the title for the second straight Big Ten, of course
won the title, and you know, reversed, you know, a
pretty terrible end of the year given the loss to
Michigan that Ohio State suffered at home, and it was
you know, not just Big Ten, but Midwest having Notre Dame,
Penn State and Ohio State.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, represent in the semi finals of the College
Football Playoff. So there was just there's just a lot
of meat on that specific boat.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, I think in the shadow of last season, you
have a couple different schools of thought. Obviously we've got
teams at the top. If you paid any attention to
college football this offseason, you know there's been a lot
of steam on Penn State. Sure, I got my Penn
State shirt on now, I probably could have worn the
hat trying to be a little bit unbiased. It's much

(04:54):
you have a shirt and a hat, continue trying to
be unbiased. But clearly that has been a hw talking
point in Big Ten circles about what Penn State has
coming back and reasons to be excited about what twenty
twenty five could mean for them for a while. It
doesn't have coming back, yeah, right, But I feel like
there is one whole lane of thinking that we almost

(05:17):
had to devote to the contenders. Sure, the contenders here,
which we'll talk through here. That's interesting in its own right.
Where I really find this conference to be most interesting
though going into twenty twenty five is the race for
fourth place and the collection of teams that I feel

(05:38):
like are on the fringe of bowl eligibility. And because
we're going to talk so much about the teams at
the top and to some extent some of the teams
at the very bottom and the challenges that they've got,
there's a big grouping of teams in between those two
poles that I think are really going to give this
conference some flavor. So for me, I found a lot

(05:59):
of interesting tidbits going through that collection of ten to
twelve teams, figuring out where are the movers and shakers,
who are the new names to be aware of, and furthermore,
where do I think I can add something that's actually
useful for people out there, Because again, eighteen teams is

(06:20):
a lot. As we're doing a show like this, we're
going to talk through all of them, if only for
a few minutes here and there. It's important to give
people a little hook that they can grab onto. Yes,
and I found more of those in the middle than
I think I did at the top and the bottom. Yeah,
I think that's right.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
When we started getting into tiers, the second, third, fourth,
I don't even know how many tiers do you even
have with your eighteen teams.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
I've got a contender tier at the very top. Yeah,
then I've got the battle for fourth. Okay, I've got
another class that I'm calling in your honor, weird little stinkers. Okay,
teams that are probably missing bowl and then bottom dwellers.
So what is that five? Five five as well? Yep,

(07:06):
how did you break yours up?

Speaker 2 (07:08):
I have contenders, I have have shown enough to beat
any of the contenders and possibly vault themselves into that
class of team. I then have definitely quality teams but
clearly flawed. I have aching for more, but it's going
to take a minute. And then I have teams that

(07:29):
it's it's sort of tough to even squint and see
how they get into another tier, if that makes any sense.
But it was actually the second tier, which I guess
you said was the the race for four, that was
very difficult, not just in who belongs there, but how
do you order those specific teams and what.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Do you take into account?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Like is it just I mean this, we do that
for all of our preview, you know, the part one
of the previous when we're breaking these into tiers, it's
just like, do you think they're better or do you
think by the fact that their schedule is what it
is Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
I had the same problem, dude. I went back and
forth so many times on the grouping of teams that
I have.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
And where are these two teams playing each other? Are
these two teams playing each other?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah? Case in point. I will talk a little bit,
maybe not so much on this episode about Illinois and Indiana,
two teams that I think are crazy interesting this year
for different reasons, but same page. Very very interested in
that game because they do play earlier in the season
at that Indiana correct, I believe so, And it's not
the kind of game that I think is necessarily going

(08:38):
to get the national highlights, but I think in the
Big ten world it's obviously very meaningful. These are teams
that are both very very good in this conference, and
to your point, yes, if all things fall correctly, could
challenge at the very top or at least make things
interesting for some of those teams in the contender tier.
It's games like that that I look at and I

(09:00):
just really struggle because there is that group again, my
battle for fourth. I've got six teams in there that
all kind of feel the same to me. Putting them
in any kind of logical order, I'm sure we'll have
people chime in and dispute the logic here, and that's fine.
That's like, I get that I'm disputing the logic here.
But that's really where I think this gets super interesting

(09:22):
and difficult in our chairs anyway to try and put
these things in a real order that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, you're also dealing with with a conference this big.
You're dealing with a scheduling issue of everybody's kind of
seems like they have maybe two of the three perceived
powers or two of the four. I don't know if
anybody has three of the four or all four of
these superpowers quote unquote within this conference, or you know,

(09:49):
maybe they have three of the four perceived worst teams
or three of the five worst teams. But you get
scheduling quirks like you did with Indiana last year. Yeah,
where you're like, I'm positive this team is really good,
but it also helps that their schedule is what it
was or was what it was. And some teams are
just loaded up because it's just got bad luck, or

(10:12):
it doesn't seem like they're loaded up, but all of
a sudden, they have a team that everybody thought was
going to be okay, starts five and oh or six
and oh or seven and one or something like that.
And so the variance of schedules, because it's probably not
going to be a conference with two great teams, two
bad teams, and fourteen OK teams, right that you're just
going to have some wacky schedules in retrospect, and so

(10:35):
trying to figure that out in mid to late July tricky.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
It's tricky, man. I had to take you can ask
Kate several walks around the block to try and Oh,
I thought you're gonna say, aohuasca? No, well that might
have helped. Why aahuasca? That might have helped. Maybe that's
the next step here vision. Yeah, but I tried several
walks around the block to clear my head and get
more of a sense for how I was feeling about

(11:00):
these teams. I'm not sure I got any closer to it.
I was changing this around just before we hit record here.
So this is all a very long way of saying
that the Big Ten is large. There are eighteen teams.
Putting these teams in any sort of logical order, I
think outside the top and the bottom is difficult. But
if you've listened to our previous episodes, you know We're

(11:21):
going to try our darnedest here. Yeah, to make the
very best of this. Just say the D word on
this show, ty, Is that what you just went with? Darness? Yes,
very scandalous. I am asking you here and now calling
you out onto the carpet. Please, you have to pick
one team, one team in the big ten, not to
win it all, not to finish last, but one team

(11:44):
sort of in that middle that you identify the most
with the word sleeper. Who is it?

Speaker 2 (11:50):
So somebody who could emerge and be much more than
I or the consensus whatever conventional wisdom is saying that's
what you're going to have to be a contender. No, no, no,
but somebody emerging from a perceived tier to another tier.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think so. I think it might be Washington, Oh, Dan,
Washington is my team too.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
If you're talking two tier leaps though, right, I like Iowa,
but I don't think they have much upward mobility because
they're already a quality team.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
And the schedule sucks. I mean right, it's harder. It
doesn't necessarily suck, but Iowa's schedules harder. I think Washington
is the obvious answer for me, and I've got a
couple other ones that we'll talk through right now. I've
got Washington in the weird little stinker tier, but feisty
team a year ago. I love Demon Williams taking over
at quarterback. Needs a line in front of him, but

(12:43):
that's a line. I like. The hire of Ryan Walters
obviously did not work out in his time at Purdue,
but before he got to Purdue, he was pretty damn
good at being a defensive coordinator at Illinois. That's how
he got the job. I like the roster. I think
it's better. The schedule is tougher, but I think we
saw a lot of fight out of the Washington Huskies
last year, and it would not surprise me if they

(13:03):
end up taking somebody big down. I'm not against that pick.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I kind of like Minnesota here, but that's it's a
weird schedule and you say.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
This, here are my three weird little stinkers. Okay, okay,
so what tier number is this? Are we not going
in order? Uh? Not right now? Or not? Well? Okay,
jump around. This is sort of right in the middle. Okay,
I've got five tiers. This is my third tier down.
I've got Washington at the top. I've got Minnesota just
under Washington, and then I've got Michigan State as my

(13:33):
three stinker teams. Okay, I am with you on Minnesota
as well. I think I think it's probably going to
be another four or five lost season for Minnesota. I
am calling them my butt also team this year because weirdly,
I found that every good point and every bad point

(13:55):
had a qualifier. You could sort of temper every single point,
whether good or bad, with something else that is going
on with this team. So it's really in the eye
of the beholder to determine what Minnesota means to you
in twenty twenty five. Sure, and then with Michigan State,
I'm sort of intoxicated by the combination of Aidan Chiles

(14:18):
and Nick marsh Okay, I think they'll be fun. I
think the defense will be better and formidable. I think
the path to a Bowl game is very challenging, and
I'm not sure they get there. But I do think
they'll be plucky. They were plucky last year. I think
they'll be plucky again this year, and with a better
roster again. If we're talking in terms of stinkers or
sleepers or whatever your nomenclature, yeah, you're looking for teams

(14:40):
like this that you know are going to come out
there with a lot of fight, that have improved in
some way, shape or form, and have a schedule that
sets them up, sets them up, excuse me, in some
interesting situations. Okay, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, I don't know who, Like last year is a
weird little stinker would have been in like maybe UCLA
within the Big ten. The way they started out losing
whatever there was five or six straight and then beating
what Iowa and Nebraska being right there with USC. I
think they beat Rutgers as well. I want to say
on the road, Rutgers might have been that stinker. Wisconsin

(15:15):
was almost that stinker, taking Oregon to the the full
four quarters, also looking terrible at times. In that tier.
Do you want me to give you that tier? You
my weird little stinker?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Washington's in my definitely quality tier. Yeah, with Minnesota, Rutgers
in Nebraska.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Okay, wow, Rutgers, Yes, wow, Nebraska. That seems low for Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
You think that's low for Nebraska. I do you have
Nebraska on a could beat a contender?

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Tier? Yes? Oh man, okay, I do. I'm going to
jot these down side by side and that we'll we'll
go through them later. Yeah, why don't we do this.
Let's jump all the way to the very top and
work our way. Let's start there. That was a tease.
Who is in your contentier? The obvious four? Who's the
fourth Michigan? Really? Yes? You like Michigan in the same

(16:09):
tier as Penn State, Ohio State in Oregon. Yes? Why?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Because I think they're a tier above. I mean, if
you wanted to say that, I can go those three teams,
Michigan in its own tier and then the next tier down,
I'll consider it.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
That gives me six tiers, which is so many tiers, toy,
It's way too many tiers.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
So Michigan is flimsy on the end of that. But
I think their defense could. Look, they didn't have an
offense last year period. They did not have an offense.
They didn't have interesting skill talent beyond Colson Loveland, and
they didn't have quarterback play. They didn't have receivers who
could stretch anything, and the running backs were good but

(16:49):
reliant on, you know, somehow forcing their way.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Through stacked boxes.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
So the offense just did not exist last year, and
they beat the National champion, They beat the best team
in college football. They return some of those playmakers on defense,
and the offense should be better this year just because
of the transfers brought in a better offensive coordinator and

(17:15):
at least more experience in that quarterback room. We'll see
how long it takes for them to start a true freshman,
but there is something about Michigan that they can ugly
their way to beating a really good team.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
I think.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I think this programs has recruited well enough that they
can fill in the gaps up front. And we'll get
it more into this with the Michigan specific preview, But
because of the defense, I think they're going to play
defense as well as anybody will in this conference at
time of recording. If you play defense as well as anybody,

(17:55):
I think that grants you permission to get behind the
velvet rope of Dan Rubinstein's top tier.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I had Michigan in my contender tier, and I moved
them down, okay, And the reason for that was, as
I went through and studied every team in this conference,
I kept finding other teams that I liked a little
bit more than them for one reason or another. Maybe schedule, Okay,
maybe offense, not so much on the defense side, because

(18:20):
you're right, their defense, especially the front seven, is going
to be the meat of this team's going to take
The offense I think a little while to develop. I
think it will, but I think it's going to take
a minute for it to get there. Yeah, and so
that was my main point of hesitation with Michigan. But
they should be very formidable, and they are clearly in
the battle for fourth I think we would agree that

(18:42):
they're probably not one of our top three contenders. They're
not number three. If you were to tell me at
the end of the area Michigan finished fourth in the
Big Ten, I'd be like, yeah, that absolutely makes sense.
That's why I've got them in the battle for fourth tier. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I think they've recruited on a level that's superior to
the teams that you may be comparing them against. I
think they will be able to again defend on a
level that I'm not positive the teams you might be
comparing them against can. And there's a certain amount of
seasoning to Michigan and obviously Sharon Moore when he's on
the field. You also have to look at maybe specific Illinois,

(19:15):
but also Indiana Indiana got a lot of the sort
of criticism and finger wagging about who they didn't beat
last year. Do we want to review what Illinois did
last year? Impressively, not through any fault of their own,
but they sort of stacked wins against a schedule and

(19:35):
were fully, fully uncompetitive against the best of the conference
last year.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Right, if you go back and look at our friend
Bill Connolly's second order wins, which again takes the stat
line from any given game, runs it through the stimulator,
tells you how many times out of one hundred they're
winning that game, he had Illinois at about two fewer
wins and they finished with the last season because even
some of those games that they won, it wasn't necessarily

(20:03):
a stellar performance. And so there's definitely some school of
thought out there that even though they had a great season,
for sure, they were not as good as the record
would have indicated.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
But they bring back a lot and we'll get into
that a lot Illinois specific one.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
But yes, continue so contender tier, then we're in agreement.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Penn State, Ohio State, Oregon. I have Michigan in that
tier as well, and Michigan, but yes, I and my order.
Do you want to know my order there. Yeah, sure,
My order as of right now is Ohio State, then
Penn State, then Oregon, then Michigan. I don't know if
you have Penn State and Ohio State flipped. I presume
you may.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
I have Penn State one. Okay. This is one of
those walks that I took around the block. All the
pieces are in place for a title run for Penn State.
There are two big games on the schedule. It's a
very advantageous schedule. They've got the home game against Oregon
that I think we're still trying to go to. Yeah,
and then they've got the road game a little bit
later in the year against Ohio State. Those two games

(21:04):
will determine ultimately whether the regular season is a success.
But it's really hard to find a universe in which
Penn State completely whiffs on the playoff. If they completely
whiff on the playoff with this roster, that's going to
be a reckoning in state college because everything, everything in
James Franklin's career as a Penn State coach has pointed
to this moment where he's got this roster back, this schedule,

(21:28):
this I guess now format throughout college football that allows
him to get in even if he's got two losses.
There is a lot building towards this moment for Penn State,
and sooner or later they have been knocking on the
door for a good long time against Ohio State. Sooner
or later they got to get another win against them.
So games in Columbus. They don't like that setup. But

(21:48):
nonetheless I like Penn State. Maybe I'm a homer, I'm
a grad, but I've got Penn State one, I've got
Ohio State two. What's interesting about Ohio State? And this
I'm sure will come as no shock to any buddy
who listens to the show, despite the fact they've got
a ton of new faces. Still your national title favorite
at five to one now Still the net like Vegas

(22:09):
saw that and committed it to memory and said, there's
still the favorite to win, right plus five hundred. So
I think we need to know a little bit more
about the buck Eyes. There's a ton new there, and
it just happens to be a year in which Ohio
State and Michigan and Oregon and Alabama and Georgia and

(22:30):
Texas and take your pick, Miami are all working in
new starting quarterbacks. Miami's obviously Carson Beck is not a
new starting quarterback, but he's a new starting quarterback there
with a newly rebuilt elbow. And Clemson is that one
team where they're like, oh, yeah, we know what this
quarterback is for Clemson. But when you look at the
national title contenders and whoever I may have left out,

(22:51):
Notre Dame new starting quarterback. Of course, that's.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Why you can look at Ohio State and say like, oh,
they replace a bunch of full time guys on the
offensive line, defensive line, in the secondary, at running back,
and yet.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think it was at more favorite right. Yes, it's
just that kind of year, and it speaks to the
job they have done assembling talent. Yeah, which is again
an embarrassment of riches. I've got Oregon next. I think
Oregon's going to be incredible upfront on defense, completely Nils Okay,
a lot of new faces, a lot of new faces,
but I think they're gonna be really good. I really

(23:27):
like Dante more. I think Dante Moore ultimately has a
higher ceiling than we saw it. A Dylan Gabriel okay,
but we're not going to get Dylan Gabriel production right away.
I think that's unrealistic.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
No, and he has time the schedule. You know, absolutely
think about Oklahoma State, but yes.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Absolutely, And even if you take a team like Ohio State,
Ohio State didn't get its seasoning until arguably after the
Michigan game, and they kind of snapped out of whatever
funk that was and went on this incredible tear to
win the national championship. Oregon, I think fans to be
another one of these playoff teams. All three of these
teams should be in that playoff barring any kind of disaster. Sure,

(24:06):
but for me, it was working in the new quarterback.
For me, it was maybe not having the same level
of production as we've seen the last year or two
out of that offense that I think held me down
a little bit on the Oregon front. But I'm still
pretty high on the Ducks. There's no reason not to be.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
No, We've talked about it, and maybe this is just
like a slot receiver thing, but we talked about it
with Xavier Ristreppo and Miami. We talked about it with
Lad McConkey and Brock Bauers a couple of years ago.
The Tes Johnson factor is extremely real that for two
years he transferred in from Troy, and he was such
a sure thing when healthy. He was out for a
little bit last year that we all may collectively be

(24:50):
saying like, oh, yeah, they're going to just continue to
be good and continue to find receivers, which sort of
under sells how dependably excellent he was for that offense.
It's on third and seven or in the red zone,
or you know, generating generating an explosive play. Oregon, of
these teams they have to me, so I guess of

(25:10):
Ohio State, Penn State, and Oregon, and this is why
they're third to me, is they have a lower floor
because of the number guys that have to hit for
this team to be excellent. Not saying they can't. They've
recruited and you know, portaled in guys who absolutely could
have a hugely high ceiling, but they need hits at

(25:31):
so many position groups receiver, secondary, defensive line, offensive line.
Not worried about running back with Mkai Hughes, but like
and most of all quarterback that I think you have
to you can't in earnest say that like they feel
like an Indianapolis team, like Penn State, has the clear
highest floor because of what they return. Ohio State has

(25:52):
the clear highest ceiling because of the playmakers on both
sides of the ball are just better than what Penn
State and Oregon have with Jeremiah Smith and Caleb down
Sunny styles like there's just too many of those types
of guys, but Oregon just needs more of those mysteries
to unfold in their favor.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Now on the Penn State side, some of the questions
are pretty obvious. And by the way, as we're putting
these tiers together, that tends to be the tell because
as you're studying eighteen teams and at some point it
all sort of runs together, you tend to find that
the teams with the fewest questions are the most obvious questions,
let's say, are the ones that bubble up to the

(26:30):
surface of cup your contenders. And that's true for sure
with Penn State, with Oregon, with Ohio State. In some
cases they have some of the same questions. There just
aren't a whole lot of them, which is why they're
here obviously. Penn State. To your point of playmakers, Penn
State's got to figure out something out wide, and they
tried in earnest to make that position group better. They
had a bunch of guys leave. They brought a bunch

(26:50):
of guys in. As we talk through our Penn State
specific team preview, maybe on the next episode we can
get into that and what I think is realistic versus
what is't. But clearly each school has a question like
that that you can point to and say that's the
one thing. Sure, that's the one thing. I tend to agree.
You know, Oregon's got a lot of upside with the

(27:12):
talent that they've got coming in, but they got to
hit on a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, who am I talking about right now? In the
Big ten When I say got some pretty big questions
about what this past game looks like? Who am I
not talking about?

Speaker 1 (27:23):
I know that's true. All right. So we got Penn State,
Ohio State, Oregon. You mentioned Michigan. Yeah, I've got Michigan
in my next tier down in which I have a
grouping of five other teams. This is my battle for fourth.
I've got Michigan in the same grouping as Illinois, as Indiana,

(27:45):
as Nebraska, as USC and Iowa. Okay, in total, six teams,
and I've got them in that order, by the way. Okay,
I've got Illinois over Indiana, Nebraska over Michigan, over USC
over Iowa. Again, there are too many damn teams in

(28:06):
this conference, but that is how I list out those
six teams. I like Michigan. I do like Michigan. My
point of hesitation here is with the offense taking a
little bit of time to develop, they are clearly better
on that side of the ball, if only because they
now have an actual quarterback. Right. But like you lose

(28:26):
Colston Lovelin, you lose your starting running backs from a
year ago. Like what they've got, I think they'll be okay.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, I mean the guys replacing them, the guys coming
in from the portal.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
This isn't gonna bottom out good. Yeah. Again, There's just
there are moving pieces there that may take a little
bit of time to develop, and maybe Bryce Underwood turns
into Vince Young. I don't know. That seems to be
the comparison that everybody's making. That would be incredible for Michigan.
I would have loved to see that, absolutely love to
see that. That would be friggin' awesome. Just don't know,

(28:58):
don't know yet. I don't feel confident enough saying that,
even though you see the pictures of him, he looks
like a god among insects on the sidelines next to
his teammate. He looks like he's six foot seven Thomas Castellanos.
You're also nearly thirty years older than him, Ty, He's
a young dude. Yeah, so I like Michigan, but I

(29:19):
had to temper my excitement a little bit. I've got
Illinois with nine or ten wins this year, okay, and
I think this is probably Beelma's best team since he
got here. I think they're held back by their wide
receiver room. I think they're held back by their defensive line.
They had no pass rush pass rush last year at all.
And there is definitely some element of how good is

(29:41):
this team really given what we saw a year ago
and given that second order win stat that I trotted
out earlier. But I still like this team. This team's
got a ton back, an absolute ton back from last season,
and it seems to set up pretty well for them
to have a real, honestly goodness shot at fourth place here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
The sturm with Illinois is what I just laid out,
that they beat up on a bunch of down teams
last year and weren't at all competitive with the best teams,
Whereas at least Indiana, it wasn't a great second half
against Michigan, but they won that game and they acquitted
themselves okay. Against Ohio State not great, okay, Whereas Illinois

(30:20):
was down like thirty one to nothing at halftime to Oregon.
Illinois was never competitive. I think it was Penn State, right,
oh No, twenty one to seven was the Penn State game.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
It wasn't a super competitive game, no, right, it really wasn't.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And they lost to Minnesota, which I didn't love. I mean,
I think Minnesota's fine. This is also an Illinois team
who I think do they barely beat Purdue, one of
the worst Power conference teams of the modern era? Okay,
just making.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Sure, where do you have Illinois on your side of this?
I'm assuming they're one tier down, so.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
I have Indiana ahead of Illinois the game. I think
Indiana's schedule, while definitely more difficult, is okay. And Illinois
goes to Indiana, I think I think I like the
upside of Indiana's offense a little bit more than Illinois.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
At this point, they should be loaded on offense. They should.
I have some defensive questions, and I do think the
Indiana schedule is harder. It's not hard to be harder
given where they came from a year ago, but Indiana
has ascended to this point now very quickly under Kurt Signetti,
where they're no longer just trying to get the small

(31:25):
school guys to come up and play for Indiana football
because there's a slot a lot more let's say, power
for starters signing up for Indiana football. Now, it seems
as if their activity in the transfer portal has definitely
stepped up a notch because of the success that we
saw in year one, with them obviously getting the playoff,

(31:47):
having a really good year. They are building on that
rather quickly, so I think they'll be fine on offense.
Defense to me, Lingers and we can get into that more.
But all things considered, I've got Illinois and Indiana kind
of like one to two in that next tier down.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, I guess for me it is Indiana blew the friggin'
doors off of its competition last year, and even with
the changes, I think Fernando Mendoz and by the way,
they blew the doors off with a quarterback with a
torn acl right, that's right, Yep, Indiana now down Tino
Senseiri who moves on to I think it was quarterbacks
coach moving on to UCLA to run their offense. Very

(32:23):
strange to say out loud that we are old enough
for Tino Senseiri is now a coveted coordinator mind, but
alas it's a good hire.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I like Tino Sincere I do too.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, I mean, so, this is what's also happening with
Indiana is you're you're not only losing impact players, but
you're like, Okay, how do you backfill this coaching loss?
Whereas Illinois, I think the replacement of Ryan Walters a
couple of years ago has worked out for Illinois somewhat
Illinois last year. Not to belabor this point, because I
do feel like Illinois is a quality good team that

(32:52):
returns a lot of quality, good players in terms of
the Big Ten. They barely get by Nebraska late correct
all time bad Purdue team. They sneak by in a shootout,
the worst Michigan team of the modern era, basically well,
the worst offense of the modern era, it seems. They
win comfortably twenty one to seven. They get blown out
by Oregon, they lose to Minnesota. Comfortable win against Michigan

(33:15):
State miracle against Rutgers ten point win against Northwestern Illinois
is a good story. They are a good team. I'm
just not there in terms of how close they can
be to a murder machine. A really disappointing as you
mentioned run defense, So I'm not there yet. I think
Indiana is closer to murder machine than Illinois, so I
have them ahead.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
But we are in agreement. They're a run down. They're
a good team, and on some level it required a
little bit of rumination to figure out who you're putting
where totally. Now, we definitely disagree on some of the
other teams in this class. Yes, you have USC under Illinois.

(33:55):
I do. I also have USC in my battle for fourth,
not under Indiana. Oh, I've got Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Michigan,
and then USC. Okay, I kind of feel like this
team got worse. Okay, I found that I liked USC
far less than I expected, and I'm wondering if you

(34:18):
had a similar reaction to what you read. I don't.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I don't think USC got worse, Okay. I think USC's
starting point is intriguing, and I think what ales SC
is more fixable than not.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
What do you think ails them. If you're pointing to
one thing that ails them, what is it? Four four
quarters of football? Four quarters of football? Okay, how do
you fix that? Because look, we've had that conversation about
a bunch of teams down.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Well, they benched the guy who was playing quarterback for
a lot of those losses. So that was a starting point. Yeah, okay,
and he's gone, yep, how do you fix that? You
get deeper on defense so legs aren't as exhausted in
October November. I think they've gotten little bit deeper on defense.
You need talent, but I think they've built up the
depth there, especially upfront, but really on all three levels.

(35:08):
I have concerns about their offensive line. I think their
skill talent should be fine. I think their quarterback should
be fine. But if we're just talking about can USC
ascend to a level where they are unquestionably better than
and beat inferior opponents, they're not far off.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
No, I would agree with that part.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, absolutely, the way that the games ended against take
your pick, Maryland, Minnesota, Washington. Look they almost lost to
UCLA as well, so you got to take the good
with the bad. But in terms of how far off
they are with the starting point of intriguing skill talents.
A quality defense I think definitely a good defensive coordinator,
Definitely a good offensive mind who sometimes struggles to call

(35:50):
a game with more runs and you know, figure out
ways to drive down the field late against clearly inferior teams.
I think it's more fixable than some like not having
the guys good enough to win these games. And I
think you see, USC has the guys and they can
win these games.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I just look at USC and I want to be
I want to be tickled. I know you want to
be seduced, you want to have your ear nibbled. I
know I want to look at this roster and I
want to say, these are the obvious go to guys.
These are the playmakers, sure, and that's not to say
they don't have them. I think the receivers are good
Jacobe Lane, McKayle, Lemon, I think the receivers are really good.

(36:30):
I think Jade Mayaba can be really good. He needs
more seasoning, But you like what you have there. I
agree with that. I get a little bit leary when
suddenly we're taking in transfers from New Mexico to be
the starting running back. No disrespect to New Mexico. They
had a pretty good offense a year ago. But yeah,
I want to find more of those gravitational players, especially

(36:50):
on offense, because I think USC ultimately is going to
be driven by offense. It's a Lincoln Riley team, after all.
And I was coming up short trying to find those guys,
those grab vitational players, those winter wonders as we call
them here, that jumped off the page to me, and
I said, that's that guy's going to be a problem.
They just weren't enough of those for me. I hear you.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
I don't know their schedule as such, where they just
need to win a bunch of these games thirty to
twenty four. Can you score thirty points with Jade Mayovn
not throwing interceptions, bombing the ball downfield to good receivers,
having emerging tight ends, and hopefully having a solid offensive line.
It's probably not going to be an incredible one. I
don't know that USC has had an incredible offensive line
under Lincoln Riley. Last year was definitely a step forward.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Can they do that? Yeah, they can do that. They're
gonna put up four hundred yards a game. It's a
Lincoln Riley offense, so.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Got to generate some turnovers, got to get off the field.
They were good on third down last year, right, Dan Lynn, Yeah,
I think they were really good. I just if you're
going to look, if you're going to compare USC against
Nebraska or Michigan, I think their starting point is pretty good. Okay,
And I have Michigan ahead of USC because I think

(38:00):
Michigan will defend better than USC does anything.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
I just think.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
USC is a complete enough team to go nine and
three against this schedule. They can again. They lose to
Maryland last year. Everything's on the table. But I'm saying,
you know, a pulley here, a chain there. I think
they can win more games. They're not far off. They
were not in the way that Illinois was not competitive

(38:23):
against the best of this conference. USC was right there
against Michigan last year.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
I think that's something, right, walk before you jog, before
you run, before you sprint.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I've got you mentioned Nebraska. I've gotten Nebraska right under
Illinois and Indiana and above Michigan, above USC and above
Iowa in the battle for fourth. Okay, And my thinking
here was a it's year three under Matt rule, which
is usually a pretty good indication that it's going to work.
He just has that track record. I think the offense

(38:57):
is much improved. I think the defense, especially up front,
sort of an open question for me, So you know,
you can't be two too high. But I like that
Dana Holgerson is going to get the full year now
to run the offense. They've had such issues along their
offensive line. I think their offensive line should be better.

(39:18):
So I just think incrementally when Matt Rule has done
with this roster, he has made it better. And the
way that the schedule sets up, at least in the
early part of the year, they've got, i want to say,
in their first eight games, five of which look to
be very winnable, and then it gets tougher the final

(39:39):
four games, three of which could be losable. So the
variance for Nebraska feels much higher to me, Like you
could talk me into anything from six and six all
the way up to ten and two. I think like
nine to three ish for Nebraska this season. I like
what I saw. I really like what they did in
the receiver room, okay via the portal, So I'm pretty

(40:00):
optimistic that this is another big step forward as we've
seen time and again with rule when he takes over
these programs.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Also should be noted year three, when he was with
the Carolina Panthers after starting where's my button?

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Hold on? Not talking about this?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
This is I mean, coaches go through different eras and
here's what I want. I like Dana Holgerson stepping in.
I like that they it seems like they upgraded at receiver.
They've been led by their defense. They lose I think
everybody up front and their defensive coordinator, which is why
you're talking about the wide variants. To your credit, they

(40:37):
lost five of six to finish the year last.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Year, wasn't it? Or where's my button again? Holding?

Speaker 2 (40:42):
We're not talking about something clicking and like, oh, they're
going to keep this going on offense now, Dylan Royl
is a freshman. You're going to take freshman lumps. All
of that is clear. He's going to be better this year. Yes,
and he is very good.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
I mean, you could clearly see why everybody's excited about
Diylan Royl. He needed more of a sporting cast, but
clearly you could see on display why he was so
highly recruited.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Sure, fourteen points against Rutgers, seven points against Indiana ten
points in a loss to Iowa. I don't want to
heap too much credit on a Matt Rule team Capitol
MRT while also looking at year two was not all
that fun to be a Nebraska fan. No, like that

(41:29):
Rutgers game against Nebraska was one of the worst TV
shows of twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Right, it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. Here's the thing, though,
they have gotten no line play, but it's never been
easier to bring in new linemen. I think it's going
to be better this year. I think it finally rounds
into form enough this season that it's not going to
drive down the offense, okay, and so I'm hoping that
the combination of the better line play, another year of

(41:57):
Riola in a Holger Sam and bringing in Dane Keene
Isaiah Hunter via the portal out wide. I'm hoping all
of these factors kind of work together and that's what
propels Nebraska forward.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I just how many coaches is it going to take
at a specific school that don't succeed for to be like, oh,
maybe this is just like a six to seven win
program right now in college.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Foot Well, well that's possible too, but they have gotten better,
like they have gotten better in each of his two
seasons in Lincoln.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Well, it was a low starting point from where Scott
Frost left the program. It's just there are They're in
a very difficult conference right now to get too much better,
it seems.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
I think Nebraska, Michigan USC are probably like my hottest
takes Okay into Big ten. And I'd be lying if
I said I were comfortable speaking from my chest on
any of those points, because I'm not. I'm just not.
I've all got them in the same tier. I think
a lot of these are interchangeable. But I just upon

(43:03):
doing the reading, maybe it was the mood I was in,
or the thing I was eating for dinner, but I
ranked them Nebraska over Michigan, over USC, and that next
tier down the battle for fourth, and then the other
team that I had in that. I think you also
said you have in this one tier down is Iowa.
I do I want to know why you felt is
optimistic on Iowa.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Why Because we have twenty five years of footage of
Kirk Farren's teams that tells us that they're going to
continue to find and develop defensive players, which I think
they're going to continue to do this year, even though
they're replacing a lot on defense, that things have opened
up a little bit on offense, even with the guys
they lose. Caleb Johnson was great for the Hawkeyes last year,

(43:48):
even with the guys they lose, even with a big question.
There was Mark Gonrowski from South Kota State.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Mark Ronowski man, oh, he has a surgically repaired shoulder
as well, dance. I watched two hours of Markronowski highlights.
Jeez in the dark alone, where's this set talking about this? Listen?
I am all in on Mark Kronowski. Okay, I think
he's the real deal. You know how I am about
these FCS transfers.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I was gonna say, there's no Max Brosmer led the
literal least explosive offense in America last year and to
this day. We'll tell you if ty happens to be
in Minneapolis and people start talking about Gopher football back.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Oh, I love Max Boroughs. I was right on cam
Ward though, you know, I was right on cam Erard,
right on cam Ward. Absolutely, I was like two years
too early on cam Ward. But I did the same
level of research on Mark Kronowski, and I'm in I'm in.
I liked Iowa way more than I expected, way more
than I expected, because we've been talking for like two

(44:48):
years now about how listen, the schedule's gonna get tougher.
They can't hide behind the Big ten West and that
whole scheduling set up anymore. It's gonna you know, they're
gonna have to make some change. They are going to
kirk Farnces. I think they're an eight or nine win team.
The schedule is definitely hard. That's how to take at
all there always are. The schedule is definitely harder. Yeah,

(45:12):
if Gronowski hits, I think this is going to be
a team that sneaks up on a lot of people,
especially on the offensive side of the ball, which we're not,
at least recently used to talking about Iowa as any
kind of offensive threat.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Well, which one of these teams definitively has a good
enough offense to score twenty four points without turning the
ball over a catastrophic number of times on their schedule
Penn State and Oregon, I guess, yeah, so if you
even pencil in losses to Penn State and Oregon, which,
by the way, where are those games?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Both those in Iowa City. Both those games are at home.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Do you have any scar tissue in trauma regarding games
with Penn State traveling to Iowa City?

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Where's my button? Let me see if I can find this.
I'm talking about this. The game was in State College,
but just that get that matchup in general, the six
or four to one yet, well.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
I'm not talking about six or four. I'm just talking
in gam Even when Penn State wins, was it was
it fun? Leading up to the point?

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Where was it Trace McSorley who found somebody in the
back of the end zone.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
It's never Fiaway City in Iowa City. Never I can
drive to this Iowa Oregon game. Do you think I'm
even considering driving whatever it is four hours each way
to watch them lose a game seventeen to fourteen. Absolutely
not one hundred percent. No, I don't blame you one
hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
No.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
So Iowa has Phil Parker calling their defense. They have
a more inventive offensive coordinator than they've had over the
past few years, starting with last season. Their schedule is
not amazing. They get their two toughest games at home.
They get a revenge spot in the Saihawk game on
the road, but that's after Iowa State comes back from Doblin.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Correct, correct? I like, how you at a Doblin emphasis? Yeah,
they both.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
They travel to both New Jersey and Los Angeles this season,
and that's at Los Angeles trip after all Oregon in
a New Jersey trip before they play Indiana, which should
be a tough game. Sure, the schedule is not amazing.
Minnesota is going to be tough this year. Wisconsin should
be improved this year, and that's on the road. I'lbe
it after a bye. But I still think on a

(47:15):
certain level, Iowa was the one who knocks go ahead
and throw it into the teeth of this defense. Do it,
do it, see what happens.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
I kind of think it would be an incredible story
if Iowa ended up being the fourth place finisher in
this conference, just because Kirk Farns has proved any you know,
it's been a rough go here on offense. I'm not
going to sugarcoat this right, but longest tenured coach in
college football, he's been at this forever. He clearly knows

(47:44):
what he's doing, just on the surface level as a coach,
even if some elements of this have passed him by
I think it would be a great story for Iowa
to bubble up and become the fourth place team the conference,
and I think it's there. I think the possibility does exist.
I'm not banking on that now.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Could they go four and eight against this schedule, Yes,
if things don't work out with your precious FCS quarterback,
if the defensive line doesn't come together as previous defensive
lines have. I think linebacker's a big question after last
season as well, because they had a ton of experience
there that's now gone at linebacker if memory serves. Obviously,
talent in the secondary a lot of it's gone. But yeah,

(48:24):
you can have quality Iowa State quality, Rutgers on the road,
quality Indiana, maybe quality, Wisconsin on the road, obvious, Penn State,
Minnesota quality obvious, Oregon USC quality, probable improve, Michigan State probable,
decent Nebraska. Yeah, it's listen, it works until it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Right. It's five of the projected top seven in the conference, yes,
plus Iowa State, So yeah, it's not e This is
not an easy schedule and it helps to have the defense.
For what it's worth, I think the defense probably takes
a little bit of a step back but they did
last year, but only allowed seventeen points a game last year. Yeah,

(49:02):
and it was a top fifteen defense. So even if
it marginally gets worse, it's still pretty damn good. It's
not going to hold them back from winning eight or
nine games. But I take your point. I don't think
you're wrong at all.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
They allowed the same number two decimal places points per
drive defense as Penn States last year finished in the
top ten nationally.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Let's go one tier down. Okay, all right, so Iowa,
I guess is something we both agree on as kind
of like the bottom tier or the bottom of the
second tier, bottom of the second tier? Thank you? Yes?
What is your next tier down? Mine is the weird
little stinkers? All right? So for me, if I am
ordering these teams, and it doesn't matter what we call
these tiers at this point, my next one up after

(49:44):
Iowa is Washington, is Minnesota, and is Michigan state in
that order, who are your next batch of teams? Minnesota, Washington, Rutgers, Nebraska.
You're really low on Nebraska, and we're going to get
to that in a second. Sure, why Minnesota over Washington

(50:04):
and why Rutgers in this tier? Because that feels real
high to me.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
For Rutgers, I'm gonna need to see protection from why
I need an offensive line from Washington. I like the
defense fine, but I don't know how many non secondary
playmakers will emerge up front still for Washington right now,
I think what PJ. Fleck has at Minnesota is a
little bit more dependable. I think the ceiling might be

(50:27):
a little bit higher eventually for Jetfish at Washington, But
right now with Minnesota, I just I think there's too
much quality and Minnesota's got you a new defensive coordinator
as well, losing Corey Heatherman to Miami. But I don't
know there's something a little bit more dependable about Minnesota
right now. I think they're gonna they can only get

(50:47):
more explosive on offense. I like the running back room.
We'll see on It's what Drake lindsay, a young new
starting quarterback, He's obviously a pretty big mystery. I don't
know there's a dependability about Minnesota right now. Washington's schedule
is fine, but they have Ohio State, Michigan, and Oregon,

(51:08):
and I don't know if any other teams in this
conference have that. Did you come across any other teams
with that.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
I don't have that at the ready. Okay, what I'll
say is this, though, me being high on Minnesota is
not a new phenomenon on this show, right, I'm always
high on Minnesota, that's true, and so I look forward
to commiserating with fellow Minnesotans after anopella, like you're one
of them. Yeah, that's right, honorary. Of course, after another

(51:35):
four or five loss season. We have a lot of
Minnesota fans that listen to the show. They all know
what I'm talking about. It's going to be a four
or five loss season. It always is. I am so
confident in this, and I was going to save this
for one of our next episodes, but I'll unveil it now. Okay.
I have pre scheduled a Zoom call for December the
seventeenth at eight pm titled Minnesota Football Support Zoom because

(52:01):
it's after the season, before the playoffs. Oh, okay, all
are welcome to attend this. Just email me soliverbal at
gmail dot com and I'm gonna send you an invite, Buddy,
you might need to do that after week three at
cal I'm one hundred percent serious about this, Okay, send
me if you are interested at our email address, I
will add you to a list. Well, I'll automated or
something so it sends it out. But I have scheduled

(52:22):
that zoom because I just know what's gonna happen. I
know it's gonna happen. I get excited about Minnesota football.
They will have a good year, but it still will
leave us like wanting for more. So I need to
finally talk to somebody about this so it doesn't build
up and I make the same mistake next year.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
I'm looking up notable University of Minnesota people to see
if we can get Like, do we could go at
Jesse Ventura on this zoom?

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Okay, I don't know if we went to Minnesota. Bob
Dylan appears to have Okay, can we get notable Minnesotans
on I'm looking at arts and entertainment. There's a there's
a good long list of people. Ty, we got to
get you somebody on this left.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
We'll find somebody. But that's that's where I'm out with Minnesota.
I you've got them above Washington. I've got them one
rung below Washington. Why Rutgers though.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Man, I am just sick of thinking Rutgers isn't good
and then having them beat somebody good that I just
am going to include them in a tier of teams
that is just going to beat some like I have
Rutgers ahead of Nebraska. Yeah, because I'm so terrified annually
of what Rutgers is going to do.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
I think the big theme as you look across all
of the previous stuff and try to decipher what Rutgers
is going to be this year, it doesn't matter where
you look. The team is better, like legit, the roster
is better. Yeah, then it's been. They have a better
coach than most of these teams one hundred percent, and

(53:53):
it just may not show because of the schedule being harder.
They were seven and five teen last year, seven to six.
They lost the bowl game in the K State. I
wanted more last year. We both did. We talked it
through in last year's preview. It is slowly getting better.
I think they expect to slow build. They're cool with
the slow build because Greg Ciano is a good coach

(54:15):
and knows what the hell he's doing. There is a
good deal of optimism around this team. I think they
feel generally pretty good about what they have coming back.
Even though there are some losses so over unders five
and a half. I think there's a path to get
into this tier. And I get where you're coming from.

(54:37):
I don't get putting them above Nebraska, though, because I've
got Nebraska as a nine win team, and I don't
think Rutgers is anywhere close to that. I don't. I
don't have Nebraska that high. I have them six seven wins,
I have them right around the same record as Rutgers. Wow.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Yeah, look, I am not crazy. I mean it's eighthan
calliac manus.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Again, right, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, yeah, thirty seven years old, ready to roll out piscataway.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
I saw a thing that they're gonna maybe try to
throw it a little bit more with them. Don't like that.
That's my big kid, big kid. I don't know if
the body of work necessarily supports an idea like that.
So I'm very like, I'm cautiously optimistic about Rutgers bigger picture.

(55:27):
Like I said, better roster. I don't think it's going
to show up because the schedule's harder. I'm curious to
see what they do with this passing thing. If there
is a commitment to throw at more, what that looks
like because I'm not sold in the quarterback. But I
would say generally, generally speaking, I share some optimism with Rutgers,
just not putting them in that tier and certainly not
above Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
They got a weird travel thing where they travel cross
country at Washington before hosting Oregon. That Oregon game is
after Oregon plays Indiana at home, Oregon traveling cross country
to play. I know a lot of people in New
Jersey brag much. I'm not going to that game. I
got a lot of couches I can sleep on in
the greater you know, and the greater what is that

(56:10):
North Jersey area? Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to that game.
I'm terrified of that game. Absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I've also got Michigan State in here, and I talked
through a little bit of why earlier. But Aiden childs
Nick Marsh that is a tandem that is too much
for me to say no too. So I think the
combination of those two guys is enough of a starting
point for the offense that anything addedive, anything in addition,

(56:38):
will give them a nice little boost. I think the
defense makes the team interesting. Four their five big tacklers
are gone, which hurts But the upside that I see
with this team is because they were so nicked up
a year ago, a lot more guys got experience. Okay,
so there should be better depth across the board, at
least on defense. They brought in a bunch of defensive

(56:59):
line transfers as well, So there is this question of
can they generate a pass rush. They did not have
one at all last season. There is this question of
the schedule, which I do think is tricky. They're at USC,
at Nebraska, at Indiana, at Minnesota, at Iowa. They've also
got Michigan and Penn State at home on the schedule.
It will be tough sledding if they want to hit

(57:19):
the over five and a half and go to a bowl.
But if you believe in Jonathan Smith, if you believe
some of the glimpses we saw last season where they
were inconsistent but they played with a lot of heart,
I think there is enough here to at least keep
them in that stinker tier, not necessarily to get the

(57:40):
eight wins, but just to knock off one of those
teams and make the conversation a little bit more interesting
in the Big ten.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I hear you, and it's hard to fully gauge what
kind of improvement a team can have year to year.
They finished the season losing by twenty seven to Rutgers.
If my math is correct, right.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
That's a lot of points to Rutgers. There's a lot
of points to Rutgers. That was at home. Yeah, I
just think it's an uphill battle.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
I think, yeah, you're right that going five and seven
last year, all things considered, decent, I think.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
So, I really do. I think all things considered, what
they did last year was a hell of an opening
Stanza for Jonathan Smith.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
I think they have a brutal schedule this year. Boston
College is better than Michigan State.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, I can make that case.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
The game's at home, so that's nice. But in the
Big Ten SC Nebraska Ula, I think UCLA is not
as good as Michigan State right now, but we'll get there.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
UCLA adds a good quarterback.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Much better quarterback situation than they had last year, or
at least a higher ceiling in Michigan State at Indiana,
as you mentioned, Michigan ad minisot it's just quality until
that Maryland game.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
So you don't have Michigan State on this level. You've
got Michigan State to run down.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I'm assuming I have Michigan State the top of the
next run Yeah, okay, so we're we're right around the
same place, sort of in the same spot. I think
they're more of like they could have obviously benefited from
a much softer schedule than what they.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Were definitely one hundred percent. So if you've got Michigan
State at the top of your next tier, that means
you've got them above Wisconsin. That means you've got them
above UCLA. Correct, that's my next tier, Wisconsin and UCLA
in that order. So where are you at with Wisconsin?
Because we talk about Michigan State and the tough schedule
that they have. Wisconsin might have the toughest schedule in

(59:35):
America this year. I mean it's brutal, Yeah, so real bad.
How much of this ranking is because of the schedule,
and how much of this ranking is because frankly, this
is a team that hasn't had an identity in two years.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
No, they could lose their final eight games and it
wouldn't even they won't be favored in any of their
final eight games. I don't believe. Depending on what Washington
I guess looks like because that game's at home in Illinois.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
But is it because of the schedule that you've got
them ranked here or is it because you just don't
think it's a good team.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I think it's an improved team against a brutal schedule,
and so the improvement I can see is more cohesion
on offense. There's definitely like I think their skill position
players are decent with no huge amount of upside. They're
replacing a ton on defense up front, and they're going
to have to score thirty five points a game against

(01:00:34):
this schedule for me to feel decently about them going
eight four, nine and three. Should I read this off
quick and the pathway to eight and four nine and
three are the pathway to thirty five points is foggy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
They start off with Miami, Ohio on Thursday, and then
Middle Tennessee the following week. That's pretty much the end
of the gimmes on this schedule. Okay, Week three at Bama.
Week four, maybe I lie home against Maryland. They should
be able to win that one. After a bye, it's
at Michigan, Iowa, Ohio State at Oregon by home against

(01:01:07):
Washington at Indiana home against Illinois. Closed out the year
rivalry game against Minnesota. Yes, you could easily find it
within yourself to say this is a three and nine
team based on this. I don't think they're going three
and nine and then they'll pick up some wins here
and there. But I am not betting anything on over
five and a half. I don't hate some of what

(01:01:29):
they've done here. I like going out and getting Jeff Grimes.
I think that was a smart move. The Phil Longo
air raid never clicked, so they're going in a different
direction this year. That that works for me. I think
that's much better. Not crazy about Billy Edwards, says the quarterback,
but I think he's an improvement. I think he's better
for the system. Okay, because they have had statues the

(01:01:50):
last couple of years, a little bit with Tanner Mordecai
and a cup of coffee with TVD and Braden Lock
like none of those guys could move. I thought Tanner
Mordecai was pretty good. He got her, but yeah, he
got hurt. He got hurt. I don't know if Billy
Edwards is a good fit for the offense, but I
think he is a better fit for this style offense
than any of the guys that I just listened gets

(01:02:12):
listed off because he can move. So I do like
that about his game. But I just look at the
schedule and I tend to agree. I think the roster
is better, but the schedule is just impossible. And I'm
curious to see how the Wisconsin community deals with this
when we talk, you know, six seven months from now,
because it's there's going to be a conversation. I'm not
sure this team's making a Bowl with this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
No, I mean I think Wisconsin can go seven and
five against Penn State schedule. Yeah right, I mean Penn State.
By the way, here's another sidebar. If they're an edge
playoff team and we start looking at the non conference
portion of Penn State schedule, it's not great if they're
an edge case with two losses or something. Okay, yeah,

(01:02:58):
you need firepower against this guy on both sides of
the ball. You need the Wisconsin defenses of the twenty
teams and the dependability of Wisconsin offenses with like an
All American caliber with tight end and running back and
a steady quarterback even if he's not great, and All
American and first round draft pick type offensive lineman. We're

(01:03:21):
just very far removed from that reality. With Wisconsin football,
you know, they bring back a couple of offensive linemen
but lose the better of the offensive lineman. They don't
have even a tight end. It seems who's going to
be a major, major weapon like we've come to see
out of Wisconsin, and so four and eight that's probably
where I'm at with them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
And then you've got Ucla in this tier as well.
So Ucla seems to be one team that we agree
on their precise ranking within the conference, and it's pretty low.
We've both got him fourth from the bottom. Ucla is
going to get I had a lot of headlines going
into this new year because of their quarterback, because Nico

(01:04:04):
iam Aliava decided to transfer from Tennessee go elsewhere, landed
at UCLA. What I'll say is this about that the
only thing more brutal than UCLA's schedule was Nico's decision
to come to UCLA. Because you know, the rumors out there,
the rumors out there is that Nico and I can't

(01:04:26):
confirm this, but this is just what I'm seeing online.
Nico's dad might have gone to Josh Heipel and said
he needed a better supporting cast. Of course, it wasn't
about money. We know that, right, But he needs a
better supporting cast. This is indisputably a worse supporting cast
correct than he had at Tennessee. So I don't know.

(01:04:48):
Maybe they're nicer to him, but I can guarantee they're
not paying them more, and I can guarantee that this
is not a better situation with a better supporting cast.
So you can talk about Nico all we want, but
this I I'm not about this UCLA team at all. No.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
I mean, okay, here's what you have out of UCLA.
Here's the case for UCLA. The case for UCLA is
it was a kind of year zero situation with Deshan
Foster thrust into it late in the process when Chip
Kelly decided to leave for Ohio State. He didn't have
this kind of head coaching experience, program building experience. He

(01:05:23):
has a full year of seeing what he has and
what he doesn't have, full year to hit the portal.
And obviously Nico is the big addition here. They could
have folded after losing whatever the five or six straight
last year, and they showed some fight with a not
great roster. So that's what nearly beating USC beating Rutgers,
Iowa beat up Iowa and somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
If you have the schedule in front of you, it
was oh Nebraska, Nebraska, You're you're precious Huskers, love the Husks,
and that game was in Lincoln. For what it's worth,
if you want to write that down, I just don't
know that Nico's the guy. Like, forget the the surrounding
cast here. His upside seems to be. But how far
removed are we from him as a recruit enough to say, like,

(01:06:07):
we know what he is as a college football quarterback
and that was for too much time a liability throwing
the ball downfield, making quick decisions for Tennessee an offense
predicated on making quick decisions, and so if he held
onto the ball too long and he played like an
absolute warrior against Ohio State with the number of hits
he took, like he earned a lot of respect from
a lot of people, just like from the toughness angle.

(01:06:29):
But now he's going to have to be spectacularly good
and make these receivers great and play behind a questionable
offensive line, need to outscore a defense that has a
number of issues. They had to make a coaching change
and basically the middle of the year last year at
offensive coordinator. So now maybe Tino Sensei brings some stability

(01:06:51):
and it's just a better teacher for Nico than what
he had in Tennessee. It's possible. Schedule's tough. They have Northwestern,
they have Michigan State.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Those are both on the road. Listen, there are nine
or ten Bowl teams on this schedule, maybe seven top
twenty five teams. At the end of the year, they've
got Utah. This is not an easy schedule. And here's
the other thing. I take your point, and you're not wrong.
They had momentum at the end of last year. They did.
They had some real momentum, and you know, the hope
is now you can add to that momentum by bringing

(01:07:20):
Nico in. He's an upgrade at quarterback over Ethan Garber's. Okay,
absolutely an upgrade, I hope. So the problem is what
you don't get from any of those headlines, which is
they are worse literally everywhere else other than quarterback, they're
not better. And so because of the fact that they
brought in a bunch of new guys basically thirty five

(01:07:42):
guys left from last season, Yeah, that's a lot. That
momentum goes out the window. Man, there's a new team
this year. Agree, this is a new team. So I
am not picking up what UCLA is putting down. I'm
just not The schedule is brutal. I think the upgrade
at quarterback is one thing, but I think the downgrade
at least marginally so pretty much everywhere else is going

(01:08:06):
to override it. Look, Nico has his reasons. I don't.
I don't know the kid. Obviously, we don't know the kid.
We don't know his reasons for doing what he did,
or his family's reasons for doing what I guess they
advised him to help do. But I just I don't
get it. I don't. I don't get it. This year,
the over unders five and a half. I wouldn't touch
out with a ten foot poll. I like Jvian Thomas,
by the way, I do like Javian Thomas. I do

(01:08:27):
like him. He's good back, was good for in Jayden
Ott's stead at Cal last year. That then brings us
a guest to the bottom three, and you can do
we it seems to agree in this Yeah, I've got them.
Maryland followed by Northwestern followed by Purdue.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Which, by the way, anybody's saying anything about Perdue is wrong.
They might go six and six.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
I don't know. Barry Odam's a really good coach. Sixty
nine new players Dan, Yeah, what did I call them?
We were kicking it back and forth because I said
Purdue and name only, and I was trying to workshop
some sort of like Pino Griggio Pino Noir thing for that.
And you said the broiler makers or the personaries. Yeah,

(01:09:13):
I said broiler makers in need of immediate heat. Yeah.
I like personaries better, though personaries has some heat to it,
thank you very much. Yeah, who they all knows? I
mean sixty nine new players fifty four in the portal
fifteen via high school recruiting. I don't think they're going
to be good based on the roster that they've assembled.
We also didn't think Indiana would be that great a

(01:09:35):
year ago, and they ended up going to the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
So fiery defensive mind brings in a bunch of transfers.
It's worked, it has the state of Indiana.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
It has worked. I don't think it's going to work here.
I don't God, how great would it be though? That'd
be a cool story. I don't think it's the work either,
but we could bring back the spoiler makers. Actually that's true. Northwestern.
I think the roster's better. I think the schedule is
murder Yes, I'm intrigued by Preston Stone, the transfer coming
up from SMU to play quarterback. I am also mindful

(01:10:06):
of the fact that Northwestern has been where transfer quarterbacks
go to die. Yeah. Also true. None of their those
transfer quarterbacks have ever hit at Northwestern, and so that
gives me cause for pause. Defense should be okay, defense
will be all right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Defense needs to be way more than all right, though.
It needs to be Hankwitz level defense.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Yeah, the defense needs to be the eighty five Bears.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
No, it just needs to be like the twenty. I
to forget which year they were at Like the twenty
Northwestern defense was that the year they went to Big
Ten championship game against Ohio State.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
I have no idea. It needs to be that level. Yeah,
and then Maryland. Maryland's got the best schedule in the
Big Ten, and it probably doesn't matter. It probably doesn't matter.
But you know what, even though I've got them as
the third worst team in this conference, there's a real
entertainment factor here with this team because they are crazy young.
Because they've got Malik Washington, their four star quarterback from

(01:10:58):
like a half hour up the road, coming in, I
would assume we will see him, if not right away,
at some point very soon. I think the whole goal
of this season for Maryland is not necessarily to win
a but I mean, you always want to go to
a bowl. You always want to do it best as
you can when it comes to the win loss record,
I get that. The goal, though, is to see which
young guys pop, to find out which guys you can

(01:11:19):
build around moving forward. Next year's schedule, by the way,
is friggin torture, so they need some guys that they
can build that project around in twenty six Otherwise, in
totally different conversation around Maryland, but at least for this season,
schedule I think gives them enough wiggle room and I'm

(01:11:39):
curious to see if any of the young guys pop.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Well, it's just the wrong year for Maryland to have
this schedule. If this were like a Talia team from
three or four years ago, this is a nine win team. Yeah,
well against this specific schedule because they miss Ohio State,
Penn state in Oregon.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
If they played the schedule last year, they're going to
a bowl. Sure it works to their favor. I just
you know, this year it's I don't know, Maybe that's
good for the youth development type situation, right, Maybe they'll
be able to develop guys, they'll be able to get
more guys in sure, there'll be a little bit more

(01:12:15):
wiggle room there. I don't know, I'm probably just making
that up. But there's real entertainment value, at least for Maryland,
so I'm cool with that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Yeah, the home road splits are at least somewhat interesting,
but they're on the road a ton. Back half of
this schedule, they play all their home games or play
all their non conference games at home, and then it's
a lot of the turfs on the road. They do
get Michigan and maybe look Ahead Spot, which is always
like seems to be the case that they get Ohio
State or Michigan the week before. Yep, but and I

(01:12:46):
think they get with excuse me, Washington after Washington has
Ohio State and they have a buye before that week.
So it's very trappy for Washington, who struggled going cross
country against Rutgers last year. So there's you know, some
situational in league, but beyond seeing like some interesting young
pop on this offense, I don't know, the lines of

(01:13:07):
scrimmage seem to need a lot of work. And yeah,
there's just a not a ton there in terms of
like dependable playmaking on both sides of the ball.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Who do you have in your title game? Ohio State
Penn State rematch rematch? Yes, Ohio State winning. I'm assuming
based on the way that you've ranked these teams, Ohio
State winning.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Just because if you're gonna give me the opportunity to say,
James Franklin and Penn State come up just short in
a big game, I'm gonna say I believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
I think Penn State has a great shot of beating
Oregon at home, which they will be favored to do.
So that tells me that they're probably gonna win that game.
It's a home game, they'll be favored, and I think
Oregon has another loss in them based on just like
a sloppy Dante More game. I don't know if it's Iowa,
I don't know if it's Rutgers. I don't think it's
going to be Washington. But there's just I think the

(01:14:02):
Minnesota game.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Maybe, Yeah, it's after they play Iowa and before sc
that could be weirdly trappy, and Minnesota has a bye
before that week. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
There's some weird trap situation for Oregon on here that
I don't love. They have a mutual buye before Indiana.
But yeah, there's there's enough to scare me about this
Oregon schedule. I'm not really terrified of Wisconsin as an
Oregon fan, but yeah, something like Penn State and Iowa.
They have a bye before the Iowa or Penn State Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Washington's on the road, and if Washington's a pretty good team,
that's gonna be very difficult. So maybe that. But no,
I think I think.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Oregon's baseline ten and two. I don't think they go
nine in three, So I have a bit of a
wrinkle here. Okay, at the end of the Big Ten season,
I'm ready. I've got Ohio State going eleven and one,
with that one loss coming in Week one against Texas
Texas yep, but I have them beating Penn State on
November the first. That game is again in Columbus. It

(01:14:59):
would be a content innuation of a trend, a very
painful trend for Penn Stats and James Franklin. But if
I told you right now two good teams playing in Columbus,
you would pick the team that's at home in Columbus. Right.
I've got Ohio State beating Penn State regular season, but
I've got a rematch taking place in the Big Ten
title game in Indianapolis, and I think that's when Penn

(01:15:20):
State gets Ohio State. Sure, so I think they split
their what amounts to two game season series. I think
both go into the playoff. I think we've got a
couple of playoff teams in this conference. We can talk
through what that looks like for us as we get
into some of our team previews, as we get into

(01:15:40):
at some point down the road in our prediction special,
which we'll do a little bit closer to the season,
who's getting in and who isn't. But yeah, it's not
just going to be those two teams. I think Oregon's
probably going to be in that race as well. And
that's when it starts getting interesting, you know, because we're
going to start talking about these teams that we both
have a wrung down and over the course of the year,

(01:16:01):
it's going to sort that. They're going to sort themselves out,
and there's probably gonna be another team that finds sway
in agree, so we'll see. I've got Penn State, You've
got Ohio State. Would welcome the Verballerhood to chime in
as well. Solid Verbal at gmail dot com of course
is the email address. Hit us up, let us know
what you think. You can also comment out there on YouTube,

(01:16:23):
on Spotify, really anywhere. Leave us a comment. I'd love
to hear what your thoughts are. Of course, if you
made it this far and you've already hit follow or subscribe,
that you don't miss the episodes, a star rating or review.
All that stuff goes an awful long way towards helping
out Dan and I growing the big tent here, the
verballer Hood, and last but not least, Forballers dot com
is where you can go if you want to support the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Show directly support the show Verballers dot com keep the
lights on. We are always crazy indebted and appreciative to
everybody who supports the show. We're with you in the discord.
It's a terrific time and this is just like a
pre hello to all of the Nebraska fans in the
YouTube comments in our inbox.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
Which of these fan bases is going to email and
be the loudest. I mean Nebraska for you for sure. Yeah.
We've had several encounters with Michigan faithful over the years.
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
I mean, everybody's going to take issue with something. That's
the beauty of college football. I should say Nebraska is
where we met for the first time in person. Yeah,
I've had terrific experiences. I've been to Lincoln three times.
I want to say at least three times, and I've
enjoyed my time there. I met the one and only
Playboy playmate I've ever met in Lincoln, Nebraska at a tailgate.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Yep, I have nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
Bopolini was super nice to me, which is rare, not
people being nice to me. But I think Booline like,
I don't know, I interviewed him for a video. So
I like Nebraska. I just you know, maybe not this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Year, Nebraska, Michigan, and USC. It will be a three
horse race to see which fan base is most put
off what we had to say about them. I liked
SC so I don't know you did well. I like Nebraska,
so they won't come at me for Nebraska. I didn't
like USC, so I'm going to get the wrath for
that one. And I've got Michigan right now seventh in

(01:18:13):
the Big Ten, so I'm going to get the brunt
of that one as well. Game is in La Nebraska USC.
We'll find out. I've got Michigan beating USC. No, I'm
saying Nebraska USC, but also Michigan USC. Is. I've got
Michigan beating USC, and I have Nebraska beating USC too.
There you go. Wow? All right, so this is part one,
Part one, Team specific, Yeah, we go, two more parts

(01:18:34):
coming up. There'll be team specific previews. Will split this
up into nine and nine and talk through the remainder
of this conference. Again, encourage everybody to weigh in, let
us know their thoughts, Tell your friends about the show.
We appreciate everybody's ongoing support, a lot of study and
trying to get our head around these teams here in
the Big Ten. We still have the SEC to go.
We still have Notre Dame and Yukon to go. We

(01:18:57):
got to be complete here about all things. We've got
some home and homes coming up with some special guests
which won veil here in due course. And at some
point we'll do our prediction special before the season gets wrong.
So a lot more to come here as the season
gets a little bit closer. Can't wait for that guy
over there, my good friend Dan Rubstein, form myself, tie
Hilda Brand. Thank you again for ongoing support for downloading

(01:19:19):
the show, Tell your friends about soliverble dot com or
anywhere they get their podcasts in the meantime, until next
time in part two. As always, stay solid, peace,

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