If Hell Freezes Over...

With the nation under the cold-hearted fist of Old Man Winter, Ty and Dan examine the unlikely circumstances under which powerhouses like Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State and Oklahoma could freeze up and lose their edge.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the solid verbal. Hell that for me, I'm
a man, I'm forty.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
be happy. You want to be happy for a day?

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Edith Steak is that woof woof? And Dan and Tye
welcome back to the Solid Verbal Boys and girls. My
name is ty Hildebrand joining me as always still over
there and very cold Chicago. Lloyd Andrewwstein, how you hold up?

(00:32):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm making pizzas I work out inside sometimes. And Gus
Melson is a UCF legend. Of course, I'm great.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Gus Melson. You kind of stole my thunder there because
I was going to play a breaking news sound. We'll
play that in a second. Okay, okay. Solid Verbal at
gmail dot com as always is the email address. Don't
forget to follow along on social media Instagram, Twitter, Facebook,
all the usual hotspots. We've added a twitch in there.

(01:01):
I played a game this weekend. Felt pretty good to
shake off a bit doing. Okay, we're now in year
two of Navy. Started out too, and I all got
a prime like four star recruit to come to Navy
and play quarterback and serve his country. Things are changing, man,
Things are changing. We're working on it, but got a

(01:24):
twitch brand, the great rebrand slash solid verbal.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Have you had Have you been fielding any offers to
become a new team's head yet?

Speaker 1 (01:33):
No? No, we went six and six last year, so
the new offers aren't exactly too plentiful right now.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
How loyal do you feel to the midshipman?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
I feel like I'm madis for the long haul. I'm
in it for the long haul, at least for the
nice mode lolo brand. Okay, shedding that brand, man going
going fresh here airing it out. I like it. Of
course we do have a Patreon as well at for
ballers dot com. Listen here is this is breaking news,
hot off the presses. I'm not going to play the

(02:03):
sound if you're going out to Verballers dot com. If
you look at our tears, you'll see that one of
the things we're doing in the off season is reverting
back to a concept, a thing, a topic list that
has long been very popular in the verballer hood, and
that is the off topic content. Dan. We've done a

(02:26):
couple shows like this over the years, and it seems
each time we do it gets a little bit more popular.
So your recall we did what was it The Pop
Punk and Emo Show with Bill Barnwell a few years back.
I mean, all of them have been with Bill, right,
you have all of them. I don't think all of them.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I think we did sports video games with Bill. We
did pop punk, emo, Internet things.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
We did do with Bill.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, okay, well, we'll do at least one of these
in the spring with Bill period.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
As part of what we're doing on Patreon, we're going
to be doing one of these per month. It's a
Patreon only release. The release this week is going to
be you and I not only deep diving our historic
careers as youth and or high school athletes, but also
talking about where we feel right now about youth and

(03:17):
high school athletics.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Right of course, Oh there's so much. So there's our
personal stuff, there is the general archetypes. There are just
I mean that we have to dip in on what
it's like now, right just to see what that world
looks like in the present tense and not just what
it was in like nineteen ninety six. So youth sports
and everything surrounding. So we're going to talk what Okay,

(03:42):
so it's our own experiences. We're talking getting to and
from games, teammates, snacks, practice games, facilities, equipment, you name it.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
We're going every kids got their own baseball helmet. Now
what is this world coming to? Yeah? Gen Z re
Ballers one more time is where you can find all
that info on the Patreon Dan. So we got a
Tuesday show, a Thursday show, and then the off topic
show is going to drop a little later on in
the week for the Patreon subs and only the Patreon

(04:14):
subs Dance. Yeah exclusive. Today's show, we are talking about
what happens if Hell freeze is over. You may be
wondering why are we playing an eight bit version of
Hotel California? Dan, Care to explain yourself?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I myself, I'm wondering too. The Eagles had a Hell
Freezes Over tour. That's a reunion tour, like they're never
going to get back together until Hell freezes over. And
then they got back together and called it that. Have
you seen the Eagles documentary?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
By the way, I believe it's.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Just called the Eagles TI, Hi, you need to see
the Eagles documentary. Why it's well, first of all, there's
so much acrimony and hate in the band that it's
like a It's a two part like four and a
half hour documentary, and the first part is the original

(05:07):
story of the Eagles, like how they came together and
they had these common friends and this is what recording
this seminal album was like, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
And then the second part.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Is later stage Eagles And I'm not even a big
Eagles fan at all. I just like wild stories about
seventies and eighties rock, I guess. And the second part
is like they just hated each other and kept going
on tour because people kept wanting to see that. You
have to watch it. Let me see where it's streaming.
The Eagles documentary is streaming. It looks like Amazon.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
You can watch it. Yeah, you can watch a history
of the Eagles on Amazon. This is how you know
it's the off season here on the solid verbal as
we talk about Eagles documentaries.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
But I might see the sane I might say that
you don't have like well formed Don Felder thoughts.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
I may have an appetite for a show like that.
Right now, I think you need another topic for one
of our off topic shows. Hey, maybe we'll just do
a documentary episode. I'm down with that. Okay, so today's show,
Hell Freezes Over. We've been doing the thing the last
couple of weeks. By the way, we're totally steering into
the whole cold theme right now. I was trying to

(06:16):
harvest the day after Tomorrow, trying to find some clips
out of there, because you recall there's that deep freeze
of course scene, but they're real. There's like no good
sounds in there that I could yank, So I'm glad
we went this direction instead. Anyway, Look, we've been looking
at teams that are down and out or teams that
are on the cusp for the last few weeks. Now,

(06:37):
of course we had the Valentine's show, but that's what
I'm gone Now this one we're looking at from a
different perspective. We're so used to talking about teams that
are low. What do they have to do to get
to the Promised Land? What about a team like Alabama,
A team like Alabama, team like Clemson that has ruled
the roost for ah gosh, recent memory, all of recent memory,

(07:02):
Dan per two, has to happen, not part say, what
has to happen for Hell to freeze over and for
a team like Obama to come crashing down to earth,
loosely connecting real world events that affect us personally to
college football, vague concepts. It's what we do here, ty

(07:25):
on the Soliverble, That's what we do. That is the
anthem of the off season. Before we do though market news.
Not going forward like I usually do, but still getting.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Happy with it.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Okay, what do we have? Gus Melson is back, baby.
UCF has named gust Melzon it's new head football coach.
You'll recall he was fired back in December after eight
seasons at Auburn. He went sixty eight and thirty five,
was thirty nine and twenty seven in SEC play, obviously

(08:03):
took Auburn to the National Championship game in his very
first season back in twenty thirteen. He emerged really just
this weekend as the leading candidate to replace Josh Hypel
takes over at Tennessee, and he has now officially gotten
the job. Quote. I'm thrilled to be the head coach
at UCF, and I truly look forward to being part

(08:27):
of Night Nation. Thank you, Gus. So look say what
you want about Gus Balazan. This is a good hire
I think for UCF. Yeah, I agree, I think this
is a splash hire to go out and get Malason
late in the cycle, to bring a guy down there who, look,
there's an incredible amount of talent in South Florida that

(08:50):
he can work with. We know he's got an offense
that's very attractive to skill talent. And again UCF seems
to find a guy who can come in and do
the thing on offense. If nothing else, they will be
very exciting to watch when they have the football correct.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Some mixed results in hiring assistants at Auburn, but the
track record is overwhelmingly positive, even with the mediocre down
years and the inconsistencies and the struggles finding and developing
quarterbacks at times. Certainly there were highs to the Jarrett
stinnam era and Cam Newton and you know, you look
back and there were some really you know, Nick Marshall,

(09:28):
they're promising dudes. But I think what he'll be able
to do at UCF is continue the successes. I don't
know how you know, if he goes eleven and one
at UCF this year, next year, whatever, I don't know
how long he's going to be there. With how much
turnover there is among the SEC and I guess acc
coaching ranks if he's going to stay in the Southeastern footprint.

(09:48):
But yeah, kind of seems like a no brainer. Should
be able to recruit very well, has recruiting connections across
the region, and Lord knows that there are going to
be transfers available from Miami, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia,
Georgia Tech, that kind of thing to help populate that roster.
So I would imagine u CF is going to position
itself very well. I'm curious to see who he hires

(10:10):
to round out that staff, But yeah, UCF is one
of those jobs, one of the group of five jobs
along with I suppose Houston that geographically has positioned itself
in a really nice place. Memphis. Boise State doesn't have
the geography, but has the track record of winning where

(10:30):
what you know, going to Tennessee, South Carolina schools that
aren't necessarily set up infrastructure wise, roster wise to succeed,
Whereas you know, inheriting, Dylan Gabriel's pretty good start, pretty
good start if you're Gus Malson. So I expect impressive
things from Malson and the Knights. I do as well,

(10:52):
any other news here jumping out to you. Penn State's losing.
It looks like Tony Banks co d C. So it has
been with James Franklin, Brent Prye. I think he's a
secondary's coach as well or safety's coach for Penn State.
Looks like he's going to Tennessee to become defensive coordinator
for Josh Hipel. Just a connected world. I don't you

(11:13):
have strong Tony Banks not oddly opinions. No, oka A
State's defense has largely been good.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, kind of a bump step back this year, but nonetheless.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, So, I mean it's always a good sign. I
will I will maintain this. Always a good sign to
have your coaches hired away from your staff instead of
having to fire them. You don't have to pay them,
You get paid, and it's a good reflection on your
head coach in terms of hiring practices. So that's hopefully
it all works out for Tennessee. I saw Oregon's twenty
twenty starting quarterback Tyler Shuck announced his entry into the

(11:45):
transfer portal. It certainly seemed like that job is going
to be wide open, and I know I and a
lot of Oregon fans had high hopes for him going
into this year with Joe moorehead and it seemed like
his numbers I think don't tell the full story. Times
he did struggle and it didn't seem like the long
term answer for Oregon. But I hope he finds a

(12:06):
good home somewhere else, be it on the West Coast
wherever that whoever. In a lot of teams need a
hopefully quality quarterback, and he is at his best equality quarterback.
So hope it works out. And I think he's immediately eligible.
I think he has both because of the way that
eligibility has worked after the twenty twenty season and because
of how quickly he graduated. I believe he has three

(12:29):
years of eligibility remaining, so Brady White situation, if you will,
which is great.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
I hope it works out.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
I hope he finds a place in locks in and
is a good quarterback all right, But Oregon is I
think decent enough in terms of depth of quarterback right now.
Looks like Anthony Brown's.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Probably gonna start the season, which I hope is good.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I hope somebody who is inconsistent and tore both acls
at Boston Coe, which works out surrounded by better talent.
I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that a better situation. I mean,
he's gonna be surrounded by a number of talented receivers,
are now experienced offensive line as Joe moorehead calling the plays,
and they have a couple of blue chips behind him,

(13:16):
including one true freshman who's pretty well regarded in Ty Thompson.
So we shall see, we shall see. I don't I
don't think you're going to the playoff for winning a
national championship necessarily with that quarterback room. But incremental improvement
is always good.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Anthony Brown, Okay, yeah, we'll see. Let's get to our game, Dan,
let's do it. Hell freezing over. So I think we
have to come to an understanding here. Right out of
the shoot. We've got got a handful of teams listed.
We've got Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Notre Dame Georgia.

(13:59):
So whats what we're asking here is what would it
take for each of these programs the spiral out of
control and at a minimum fall down from the pedestal
where they currently find themselves. So, like, we could start
with Alabama or Clemson, since those are the two most
obvious ones. But I think we have to ask first

(14:21):
and foremost about each team what happens if the coach leaves.
That's the most obvious thing. That's the low hanging fruit.
We're not going to do the thing where we talk
about rules and fractions because rules and fractions could obviously
be an unforeseen event that affects any of these schools
in a very negative way. That's also low hanging fruit.

(14:42):
But beyond that, I have some thoughts here on some
of these teams. I know you do as well. Why
don't we start with Alabama?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Should we define what we mean falling from glory and help,
raising over and careening back down to ours? Like sure,
from from glory to Gasparilla, glory to gain. Yeah, I'm
not saying that a team is going to utterly collapse
and get the death penalty. Excuse me, English, go one
and eleven. But you go from winning double digit games

(15:11):
to seven point two to eight point one games a
year over a seven year spam.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
It's like a Miami situation we talked about Larry Koker.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, I mean a number of all of these teams
that we've listed have koreem back down to Earth at
some point for reasons that I think is.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
An important point that I wanted to remind everyone of. Yeah,
even though it seems like there is no possible way
in Alabama or a Clemson or in Ohio State is
going to come back down to Earth, we have seen
it time and again. It happens. It's going to happen
again for all of these schools without fail. Yeah, well

(15:55):
there's okay, so we can discuss all that here, but
it will happen at some point.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
It goes without saying, like you mentioned that, not only
do you have to talk about coaching changes, but yes,
let's get it right out of the way right now,
if either one of these if any of these schools
loses a coach and hires a bad coach, it can
very easily happen. I think we need to go into
some more of more detail on a more granular level,
like what specific to these schools could because Ohio State's

(16:25):
context is very different from Notre Dame's context and Oklahoma, Oregon, Bama, Clemson, Georgia, whatever.
Even though you know there are some overlaps in terms
of conference with say Clemson and Notre Dame this past
year or Alabama and Georgia whatever, what we're gonna get
specific to those schools because there are certainly Oh you
start a bad quarterback.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
And you became bad.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yes, that happens to everybody, literally everybody. We're going to
try and avoid the the layups, the guppies.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Of an answer as best we can. So, okay, let's
that being said. Let's start with Alabama. Yeah, Alabama, your
national champion, Nick Saban, greatest coach of all time, Nick
Saban leaves, Nick Saban decides, well, could you give me
a Nick Saban stays in the koreem as well, do

(17:14):
you have that within you? I think so? Yeah. I
mean I think it needs to be said that if
Saban leaves, I don't know if a Korean's out of control,
but that's probably the best chance of it happening, right, agreed,
of course? Yeah? Yeah. Obviously Bama is so well rounded
at this point that you can't just point to, like
you said, a bad year or two at quarterback and

(17:36):
that being the tip of the iceberg that leads to
the downfall. I think the angle here is more centered
around recruiting, particularly with teams around Bama getting good enough
that it's harder for Bama to recruit. So, for example,
we talked about Miami, how Alabama was moving into that

(17:56):
South Florida territory, building a pipeline for itself, siphoning off
some of that top talent. But if Florida State gets better,
if they rise up, if Florida can continue itch trend,
if Georgia can continue itch trend, if Miami could reclaim
the swagger. There are a lot of ifs here as
a game of hypotheticals, mind you, even if Gus Melson

(18:18):
can come in and poach a couple kids, more recruiting
competition for that talent over humble cycles, I think is
one way that you could start to see things trend
in a different direction.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
I don't think that's based in reality, because.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
None of this is based in reality. But continue, No,
I know.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
There are certain things about Alabama that are based in reality.
The things that are based in reality about.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Alabama is.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
An influx of quarterbacks, slash systems, slash coaches doing interesting
enough things to undermine Nick Saban's ability to coach an
eleven twelve win team consistently because of innovation that Nick
Saban has generally capitalized on. But he hasn't been at
the forefront. He hasn't been in the forefront of running

(19:06):
the spread. He hasn't been at the forefront of playing
up tempo, of using RPOs. You know, there was that
inflection moment or moments when we were talking about the
SEC banning you know how quickly teams can play, and
it's saying, you know, is this what we want football
to be? So I think what it is is actually

(19:26):
innovation because I don't think anybody's going to pay closer
attention to the little things that Nick Saban does because
he keeps having to overhaul his staff every year and
nothing changes. They just keep winning national championships or vying
for national championships. They're in that playoff conversation. They're of
that caliber. So what it is is, essentially, I don't know.

(19:49):
Tennessee and South Carolina and LSU each find their own
version of Hugh Freeze's system slash Johnny Manziel slash, the
combination of Steve Spurrier and Steve Garcia, Steven Garcia guys
like that. I think if we get a perfect storm
of that every year, I think that's the closest thing

(20:10):
because I don't think the recruiting is ever going to
fall off. The track record is too vast and too
deep that no coach is there a coach right now
that could come in to the SEC and say, my
track record is analogous or within arm's reach of what
Nick Saban has done in terms of winning and developing
NFL council.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
I mean, he just signed the best class of all time,
right right.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
So being out recruited or seeing recruiting fall off in
an appreciable way I don't think is based in reality.
I think it's much more that more and more talented
coaches take SEC money. Like if Ed Orizron doesn't work out,
all of the sudden, lsu hires Lincoln Riley, and all
of a sudden they become unbelievable killers in a way
that they only were that one season with Joe Brady

(20:54):
and Joe Burrow. Like, I think that's where we're heading,
That the conference becomes oh stacked and top heavy with
coaching and quarterback and overall talent that the conference just
can't help but to beat itself up. Yeah, I think
side of that, Yeah, I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
I think it has to come from within the SEC too,
From within the walls, coming from within the house, within
the walls of the SEC is the best chance of
this conflict rising up because look, for college football fans,
at least to some extent, the Clemson rivalry between Clemson Alabama. Look,

(21:34):
it's still interesting, maybe not as interesting as it used
to be because they're in it every year, But that
is not going to destroy Alabama. What would really take
a toll on Bama as if it found a counterbalance
somewhere else in the SEC. And to be fair, everybody
in the conference has ripped their hair out for the

(21:54):
entire Nick saban Era trying to figure out how to
get to be that counterbalance. No one's really done consistently yet,
I think at a.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Minute, and the ones, the ones that occasionally do, are
only that dangerous for blips.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
A couple of years.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
It's LSU for a season, or they are kind of
half a team with an amazing defense, but they can't
put it together consistently on offense. What they didn't cross
the fifty in a national championship after beating Alabama nine
to six earlier in the year. It's ole Miss imploding
under Hugh Freeze. It's Georgia not quite getting over the
hump teams like that where nobody's been able to put

(22:32):
it together with any sort of consistency, with Auburn being
the closest.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
And they still fired their coach. You know, the the LSU,
The combo of LSU and A and M in the
SEC West is really interesting to me. Sure, that's really
interesting to me. And I do think that Jimbo Fisher
is slowly but surely going to build up A and M.
We'll see what Orgeron could do. He had a tough year,
want to turn over obviously weird year with COVID. But

(23:00):
you know, provided they can continue to build those programs,
that would be some interesting competition for sure for Alabama
it already is, but to see those teams take their
game to another level would would help this argument. Well,
isn't there also still the even teams that lose consistent

(23:21):
consistently in the SEC, with some exceptions, generally have an
appealing element to their team. Be it the Kentucky defense,
be it you know, how feisty. I suppose it an
unquantifiable way. Arkansas was this year with a real quarterback
and an improved defense, and Mississippi State for forever had
like this kind of dangerous offense with times an NFL

(23:44):
quarterback and Dak Prescott like there were, there are always elements.
So I think if the competence floor is raised in
that every week Alabama plays a team who's at least
very good at one point three, things that becomes interesting.
That becomes quite interesting. Alabama is still going to win
ten games a year. But if that, if that opens

(24:05):
Alabama up to losing fifteen thirteen to Arkansas one random,
weird year, that changes things, That changes the calculus. But
we're talking about something that still remains five steps away.
Well exactly, you know one other thing here about Bama
and then we're going to move on to Clemson. And
here's why I bring you.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Need to also tell me is there anything internal about
Alabama that would worry you internal?

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Right?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
So we internally at Auburn that there was pressure and
there were factions, and Alabama there's a ton of pressure
to win. And so obviously if we're going to happen
by now where Nick Saban didn't want to deal with
the internal politics both within the athletic department and the
booster community to Alabama and everything going on, he'd be gone.

(24:53):
But he has organized all those things behind him in lockstep.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
So I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I think that's that's it in terms of internal hope
because a lot of places it's not wanting to deal
with the politics, relationships running sour with the AD and
with whoever the chancellor, and then it's then a coach
will find a way out to go.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I just don't see that for Saban. Hard to see. Yeah,
he's a legend. Yeah. What I was going to say is,
you know, one of I think the common themes that
will have certainly with Clemson, I at least want to
discuss it with Clemson and some of these other schools
here the prospect of assistant coaches leaving, that's not has

(25:39):
it affected Bama? Not as big a deal for Bama
right they are maybe by at all sheer force of
will from Nick Saban and his ability to organize and
create a system that's plug and play for new coaches
and players and the like, that has not been something
that has really slowed him down. We've had this story
now for what feels like five years running about assistance

(26:01):
leaving going elsewhere. To your point from earlier, when these
guys are in demand, that obviously speaks highly of your program.
But we've seen it time and again, big time assistants
are leaving. Alabama keeps getting better.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
So we talk about how it could potentially and it
would need a lot of different elements to go wrong
for Alabama with Nick Saban. What is an Alabama team
who is built to win big? They pour resources into
the program, unlike many and most of all schools and
college major college football. So the resources are there, the
reputation is there, the NFL draft factory is there, the

(26:39):
high profile elements to the program is there. Alabama is
as big as it gets. You can't hire the wrong coach.
But is there anything specific about Alabama post Nick Saban
that worries you? Because I have a couple of things. Well, yeah, primarily,
nobody's Nick. That's the number one thing.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Nobody's Nick Saban, And it's very difficult to try and
match that. To that point, though, we have seed some
recent success with Ryan Day taking over for a legend
in his own right in aben Meyer one full season,
one full season, right, and I have that written down here.
I do want to talk more about that. Yeah, but

(27:20):
there is some precedent, at least here in the early
going that it seems like that situation is going to
work out well. I do think it's going to have
to be somebody who has familiarity with the program, who
coached under Sabin. I was probably not Sarkesian at this point,
but somebody like that that the Alabama brass will be

(27:41):
comfortable with, who can establish some means of continuity going
from Saban serving as that bridge to the next generation.
It's going to take somebody who.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Knows maybe, yeah, And that's what we've seen across the
country with some of these teams, not Notre Dame, but
across the number of these teams.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
There's that familiarity.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Lincoln Riley was the coordinator at Oklahoma before taking over.
Same goes for Ryan Day. Mario Christobal was in that
role at Oregon and so that certainly helps. And Clemson
had a receivers coach in Dabo Sweeney before he took over.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
So that helps.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
My worry with that is the expectations at Alabama, given
what Nick Saban has done, are unmatchable. I mean, Urban
Meyer won how many national championships at Ohio State. One
that's matchable. I mean, he had Ohio State playing on
a crazy level, but they win the first college football
Playoff and then don't, so the expectations for keeping the

(28:41):
train going. I don't think anybody can possibly succeeded Alabama
after Nick Saban, directly after Nick Saban, whoever it is,
is going to get fired within four years. Even if
it's Dabosweeny, he's gonna get fired.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Let's move over to Dabbo. Let's talk about Clemson. So
I asked this question to Larry Williams from Tiger Illustrated
when I had him on the show, I think a
year ago, and it was almost verbatim, like what does
it take for Clemson to fall back to Earth? And

(29:21):
he didn't really have a good answer for it, but
his answer was staff changes. If we saw staff exodus, right,
So Brent vannables, if he leaves, if the offensive staff
will leaves, if we've got coaches who are suddenly so
in demand that they have to take these jobs, and
Dabo is now looking to put in place a new cabinet,

(29:43):
what kind of effect would that have? Now? But by
now I think it's pretty well known how Dabo got
his start at Clemson. He was a relatively inexperienced coach.
He got the head role, and he decided that he
wanted to allot a lot of his budget to go
out and get the best assistant coach is possible to
help support him. That model has obviously worked. Clemson's a

(30:04):
juggernaut now. But if at this point some of those
coaches were to leave, what kind of downstream effect would
that have? Clemson is still obviously a place where people
would want to go and coach, but any kind of
mass turnover if Brent Vannables decides to leave and take
ahead job at some point in time, you know, so

(30:25):
much of that program is built around a really solid defense.
If he leaves, what happens is that something that can
be replaced. We have not seen what Dabbo can do
with the like a Saban level of coaching turnovers, So
that to me seems like the most obvious place to
go first. Here.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
What's interesting to me about Clemson is how patient are
they now versus how patient were they with Tommy Bowden
winning seven games every year in the two thousand and
seven eight games compared to win and I had to
give myself a refresher. But in twenty ten Clemson went
six and seven. They lost the Minukey car Care Bowl

(31:07):
to USF offensive coordinator of that Clemson team Billion Napier
billion fired ye Billionnapier defensive coordinator Kevin Steele. Kind of
a dream staff if you were to look back on
it now in terms of what those guys have done since.
And certainly you can point to what Kevin Steele did
at Clemson and which cost him his tenure at Clemson.
It just wasn't a fit by the end of things.

(31:29):
But the patients with an unknown, which Dabosweeney very much
was when they hired him, and then in twenty ten
when they have a losing record, and since then they've
only had double digit win seasons. So what does that
patience look like? If they replace Dabbo with somebody who's
pretty good or good or interesting or coming from across

(31:54):
the country something like that, and they go six and
seven in their third year, what are the expectations now
after I mean three of the four of the last
five years they've won fourteen, fourteen, fifteen and fourteen games.
What does that patience look like? How is Dabo's calculus
change that program? I think the danger coming from the

(32:14):
call in the house doesn't really exist because the acc
is at a point where who is legitimately dangerous? Which
grouping of teams right now could we even envision being
legitimately dangerous.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
It's hard to see. To me, it's hard to see.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, So yeah, I don't see an existential threat there.
I think the existential threat is obviously Dabbo leaving. But
even if Dabo stays there, it's that he has grown
so powerful there that maybe the drive to keep hiring
and maintaining the assistance and that culture there where he's

(32:53):
become an emperor figure, not just figure figure, not just
like Nick Saban has done, but he has done it
in a place that essentially hasn't seen this level of
success in what thirty years. Danny Ford was good in
the eighties, but they were okay with seven win seasons
in the nineties and two thousands. So knowing that and

(33:14):
knowing that he has that status, how motivated is Dabbo
on the throne If he has to do what Nick
Saban does, which is completely overhauling his staff every or
every two or every two and a half year or
something like that, that to me is the great unknown.
So I think you're right on that.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
The other point that I'd bring up is Clemson has
had really good quarterback play in recent memory. Is that
a slight against Kyle Parker It kind of is. Yeah,
he hit twenty home runs and through twenty touchdown in
a single year. But if you look at the track

(33:56):
record at Clemson of quarterbacks, go back to Taj Boyd.
You know, let's go back ten years, TODJ Boyd full stout, Yeah,
Shaun Watson, obviously, Trevor Lawrence. They have really hit on quarterbacks.
It seems like the dj UIL is going to be fine. Sure,

(34:17):
but if there is a year where they miss or
two years where they miss, I don't know if I'm
as confident in Clemson digging out from that as I
would be in Alabama.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
What level quarterback miss would would take them from the
playoff to you know, the Minukey car care Ball if
that still exists. I mean, like aus Kelly Bryant was
a replacement level quarterback and he took him to the playoff. Right,
So we we are talking, can can we do an

(34:58):
exercise that we promise is not I don't think what
is definitely gonna come off as insulting, Like I'm looking
at this year's quarterback efficiency rankings. These are like the
most efficient quarterbacks across the country and conference games. So
could Jack Plumber perdue part time starter take Clemson too

(35:19):
the playoff? No, Max Duggan.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
I mean, if you're going to throw a TCU quarterback out,
I'm probably gonna say yes.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
So Adrian Martinez. I think all of these answers are
probably yes, just because the acc that defense Travis etn
I know it was a different line this year, but
I'm just if you're averaging out for talent.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Reason, consider that no quarterback at all, just like they.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Start Amari Rodgers. That's a quarterback, like an emergency quarterback.
Chase Brice. Yeah, Chase Price would not have been able
to take Clemson too the playoff to me, but you
might have to go pretty far down this like filter
Covid could take Clemson to the playoff.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
I know they're so good at all the other positions,
but I do feel like if you get like a
year or two in there with really down quarterback play,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
To me, though, there is an element of if Clemson
has the eighty fourth most productive quarterback in the nation
but is still surrounded by crazy five star talent up front, receiver,
running back, defense, doing everything, you know, shouldering the load.
You're getting the absolute best quarterback transfer to Clemson, aren't you?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
More than likely? Yeah, it's not gonna last more than
a year. JT.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Daniels is going to Clemson. Whoever that that headline transfer
portal quarterback is just can go to Clemson and immediately
step in and succeed. So it's hard to see at
Clemson quarterback issues for multiple years existing. I think it's
the laziness. I think it's the attrition, and I think
it's what what does Clemson look like in terms of

(37:04):
how attractive it is? If Dabbo leaves for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
He leads to start like a talk podcast for the
Ringer could see it.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
How attractive is an open Clemson job? Premium premium results
these past few years, superpower results. What type of name
does Clemson attract? Is it internal with Venables or Tony
Elliott or are they are they taking a big swing
with Lincoln Riley or whoever. I don't know why Lincoln
Riley would leave Norman. He's got a very good at

(37:34):
a home. But I don't know, all right, do you
I see?

Speaker 1 (37:39):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
I don't know, Clemson still like it's not a headline
program in terms of national awareness in the way that Alabama,
Ohio State are, even though the results are there. I wonder,
I wonder what type of external name Clemson can attract.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
To me.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
It's not as obvious as one of the other schools
we're talking about, so that to me.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Is an issue.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's attrition internally and it's externally. What can they attract externally?

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Let's go to Oklahoma since you mentioned Lincoln Riley. Okay,
first things first, as we've been acknowledging with each of
our teams here, in all cases the coach leaving will
be somewhat catastrophic. Lincoln Riley going to the NFL will
be really catastrophic for you think, So I do, I
do explain. I think he is about as good of

(38:37):
a candidates you're going to find who you can get
him when he's young and perhaps willing to stay for
like fifteen years. Yeah, it's sort of rare to find
those guys anymore. And he seems really happy there, seems
to be building something there, and to lose somebody like that,
in effect, you're kind of starting over, So that'd be

(38:59):
a big deal. And I also think the way that
he has put his brand on the program has been
really notable. You know. The other point I have here
is if he goes a year or two missing that
high level quarterback play, Oklahoma is not good enough on defense.
They haven't been to kind of make up the difference

(39:21):
for an offense that can't score right. So, I think
I think that's a very obvious thing to point out.
Lincoln Riley leaving going to the NFL, that's a problem.
I don't know where the program goes from there. Clearly,
you know a historic program that's going to attract top

(39:41):
coaching talent. But to start over with somebody in a
different mindset, that's the problem. And then you're not fully starting.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Over if you hire internal like Lincoln Riley was, if
you hire you know, Alex Grinch or somebody like that.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Correct, But is Alex Grinch gonna pump out multiple Heisman
Trophy winning quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
No, it's an unsustainable pattern. But yeah, I understand what
you're saying.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
I think some combination of link in either leaving or
missing a few years at the quarterback position, specifically at
the quarterback position, since that's really where he's made his Hay.
Some combination of those two things could be enough to
take this program in a much, much different direction.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Oklahoma is the one I might feel the best about
actually in this situation. Who the hell are you scared
of in the Big Twelve right now? Unless you play
Kansas State literally every week on the schedule, Who are
you actually scared is going to rise up to become
a superpower? I guess you could be concerned about Texas,
but kind of been there, done that. We're talking about

(40:49):
Steve Sarkisian, who I have high hopes for given what
I've seen out of recent offenses, but being an offensive
coordinator is very different.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
We called him seven win Steve for a resent. That's right,
That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
So Oklahoma is a place that all the resources are there.
The pressure to win national championships is not there. The
pressure just win the Big Twelve, be a national contender,
get into the playoff, you know, ring some bells of
other powers occasionally, or decent teams whatever. Oklahoma's better positioned
to succeed in their conference in the long term than

(41:23):
maybe any of these teams, just because of what their
schedule looks like. It's a mess of a middle class
of flawed teams that do some things well. But right now,
Iowa State's interesting. I don't know how long people think
Matt Campbell's going to be an ames. I hope it's
for a very long time. But that doesn't seem like
a sustainable partnership because he's just going to attract that

(41:45):
much attention. So Oklahoma should be able to whether it's
internally externally, what will help Hell to freeze over and
see Oklahoma back in the I guess the depths of
where they were in the Bob Stoops era, which is
holidayble type games or whatever Ali Mobile, whatever the analog is.
Now what that game is is basically not just missing

(42:08):
on quarterbacks, but missing on more defensive coordinators. Lincoln Riley
was also the guy who kept Mike Stoops on board
for I think almost assuredly too long. So that's an
issue that if they keep having to win fifty one
to forty eight games, they're going to keep losing more
and more. So the defense has taken nice steps forward,

(42:30):
but you lose Alex Grinch and you make another dut
of a higher well, that's that's a pretty bad issue
that's hard to overcome no matter how good. You are
detracting the nation's best quarterbacks. But I still think Oklahoma,
because of how well set up they are to succeed
in the Big Twelve, will attract a bigger.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Name than Clemson.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
I think Clemson set up to win an acc But
Clemson is dabbo, whereas Oklahoma has had you know, they've
had blips of of bad runs. But we're still talking
about Bob Stoop is an all time great college football coach.
I think he was just inducted in the Hall of Fame.
You talk Barry Switzer, you're talking now Lincoln Riley, Like
there is it's very clearly a school that's going to

(43:13):
set up a coach to succeed. I think it's bad
defensive coordinator hires and I guess Texas fully becoming a
full on super how Yeah, that was the other assumption
that I was going to push back. There's like nine
s's at the end of that word guess, well, of course,
But let's unpack that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I feel like we've been waiting a while for
the Big Twelve. To the middle class of the Big Twelve.
Let's say to rise up and make it a much
deeper conference. Now, look, week in week out, there's a
lot of offense generally in the Big Twelve, and we've
seen strange upsets pretty much every year in that conference.

(43:55):
It just happens, the thing. But I can't say for
sure that we've really seen that many teams from the
so called middle class bubble up to the point, maybe
outside of Iowa State, bubble up to the point where
we start to consider them among the upper crust. I
feel like the conference needs to get deeper as a whole.

(44:16):
At the same time, some of this stuff is going
wrong for Oklahoma, you know, threats again coming from within
the conference to knock them down a peg at the
same time that they're struggling at quarterback and their defense
is a mess. It's going to take a confluence of
events like that. If Lincoln's going to be there for

(44:37):
the foreseeable future, they're going to need some combo like
that to knock them back a pig is.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Does he have that status, by the way, that first
name only status, if Lincoln's going to be there.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
I mean, on this show he does, because we're we're
obviously boys with Lincoln Riley.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
But yeah, of course, yeah, it's tough to see. But Yeah,
I think it's going to down to defense, the NFL
calling Lincoln Riley's name, and I'm trying to think what's
specifically problematic about Oklahoma and the open market looking for
a coach, because it's been a while. They went after
Bob Stoops after he was a defensive coordinator at Florida.

(45:17):
So just I think that the ADS in a really
good spot, and I think leadership has given everybody a
good reason to trust the Oklahoma front office or whatever
we want to call it. Yeah, I think that's what
it is. I think it's some element of maybe Alex
Grinch isn't ready if he's the next guy, if Lincoln

(45:39):
Riley Lee's for wherever next year in the NFL, and
it's a bad coach, but it's going to have to
be a bad coach in concert with defense conference and
some level of just you know, maybe losing the AD.
Maybe it's hard to see. It's hard to see that

(46:02):
that conference just still seems so shallow at the top,
Like how many times is Oklahoma State? How many times
is Mike Gundy beaten the Sooners twice in fifteen years?
Whatever it is, sixteen years?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
You want to play a little bit of three d chess. Sure,
what if the reason Lincoln Riley Lee's and the reason
that Oklahoma freezes as part of hell freezing over of
course continue is because of the college football playoff system. Huh?
And what I mean by that is because the Big

(46:35):
Twelve is finding itself in these odd situations where it's
left out in the cold. A young, upstart, ambitious coach
like Lincoln Riley just does not get the opportunity as
much as he would like to play for a slash
winter national championship. Right, So, rather than deal with this

(46:56):
goofy college system, Lincoln decides, screw it, I'm going to
the NFL. I can play it out, play it off
the way we're supposed to in any mature sport. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
And I'm leaving Oklahoma, Yeah, I mean, anybody who loses
their great coach is gonna suffer likely. I'm trying to
think what's unique to Oklahoma, though I'm trying to. I
suppose it is that element of not garnering respect in
the Big Twelve and being left out in the cold.

(47:28):
But I internally, is there anybody upset at Oklahoma with
where the Sooner stands? With so I can't they've had
It's not like they've got undefeated and been left out.
You lose Iowa State, you lose to Kansas State. I
mean that's that's sort of the reality. So yeah, not

(47:49):
only is it Lincoln Riley leaving, but it's a coach
coming in screwing up recruiting in concert with I think
Texas becoming a superpower for ever asleep the Godzilla under
the Does Godzilla sleep way down deep in the ocean?

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Is that a thing? I don't know. I believe it is.
So I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
But that's only one game. If Texas is a superpower,
you're only going eleven and one.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
And them again. Okay, I'll go to Ohio State here,
so they're more interesting to me, I think so. I
highlighted Ohio State on my list here as the singular
most interesting team in this discussion. Ohio State, unlike the Alabama, Clemson,
and Oklahoma discussions, is very different. I don't think we

(48:39):
can say for sure that if Ryan Day leaves, they're
gonna tank because we only got one full season really
out of Ryan Day. It was a very good season,
and what we saw from them this year was again
very good. Justin Field's a very good quarterback. We haven't
seen Ryan Day with a quarterback other than Justin Field.

(49:00):
So I think this is actually a lot more to
be determined then you might think just looking at recent
recent expectations, recent results. I mean, he had Dwayne Haskins
as an interim if we count that. But yeah, sure,
I this, like I said earlier, this is an example

(49:21):
of a legendary coach leaving Ryan Day. Assuming from within
you're one in year two, pretty good. I think it
will absolutely take the rise of someone else in the
Big Ten East to counterbalance Ohio State and siphon off recruits. Now,
but does that knock them to eight and four? And

(49:43):
it doesn't knock made him four? Right, But you got
to start somewhere, and I think the immediate starting point
is Ohio State not winning the Big Ten Championship or
Big Ten East every year. Got to start there. Now,
Can Penn State get there? Maybe? Maybe can Michigan get there?
Feeling a lot less confident about that one as of late,

(50:03):
but those would be the two obvious candidates in the
East to jump up. Maybe Michigan State put something together
a couple of years in the future, but in the
short term, I think it's either Penn State or Michigan
to rise up and start knocking on the door. I
will be very interested to see what happens this year,
not because I think it's the start of any great
downfall for the Buckeys, but Justin Fields is going pro

(50:27):
and we are going to have an opportunity to see
that new quarterback situation and see what Ryan Day can do.
One of the other things that we've seen recently with
Ohio State, Ohio State has been very, very good. Again,
I can't emphasize that enough, but we've seen some deficiencies.
One of the things that Ryan Day came in and
did year one was fix the defense, because defense in

(50:50):
the last year of Urban Meyer was sort of a mess.
So he came in, he fixed some things, He made
them a better school. But I'm curious to see if
he can continue to steer clear of those deficiencies now
in the short term, because eventually, if you have enough
of that, it starts to add up. I feel like

(51:11):
with Day, as compared to some of these others. We
could talk about Mery crystal Ball in a little bit,
but today especially, I don't feel like we have enough
data to really make an accurate assessment on what it
would take for them to freeze over.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
So you almost think he there's a very slight chance
and I don't think either one of us believe this,
but there's a slight chance that there is some mark
Helfrich Larry Kocher after the guy I do keeps it
going for a stretch, but not necessarily on the level
of an all time predecessor.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
It's diminishing returns, right, and we've seen it time and again.
Doesn't mean Ryan Day's back coach, And you're right, I
don't think that. I don't think that he's going to
go that route, but I think it's a bit of
an incomplete right now. He happened to take over at
Ohio State maybe at the time that they were getting
like the best quarterback to ever go to Ohio State,
and justin fields, you can say you went about that

(52:09):
and they were good elsewhere, produced a lot of great
defensive talent, no doubt, but they were gettable on defense.
This here sure watched an Indiana game. They're gettable, right,
like they weren't social National championship. Watch the National Championship.
But how much you can hold that against them going
against an Alabama remains me seen, but you know, they're

(52:29):
not as bulletproof, and I just am not totally convinced
that Ryan Day is just going to be on this
glide path to the playoff every year. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
So there are a couple of things that are interesting
to me about Ohio State because infrastructure wise, they are
so well equipped. The recruiting department and just the sheer
volume of people that goes into Ohio State winning is
crazy impressive. They have to recruit in a way kind

(53:04):
of nationally they I mean, you look at the footprint
of this last amazing recruiting class and there's not a
ton of Midwest footprint. So they have to go out there.
There has to be charisma, there has to be that effort.
I think there will be, but I think the danger
is in well one, Ryan Day has coached in the
NFL and so I don't know what that appeal is

(53:24):
long term. But if Ohio State keeps blitzing through the
Big Ten and losing in it's close, big fashion whatever
to the powers in college football, I don't know. Maybe
he's going to feel like he hit his ceiling at
Ohio State and then it's it basically just takes a

(53:45):
coach to come in and say we're going to play
smash mouth football and get away from what attracted players
to Ohio State, and all of a sudden, you're turning
off players in Arizona or Georgia or North Carolina who
want to play a very specific way. I think that's
an element to it. I'm not really worried about Ohio
State playing in the Big Ten and not necessarily playing

(54:06):
in huge games, as Michigan and Penn State are now
kind of down and there's no real obvious team in
the Big Ten that is shaping up.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
To be a long term rival near their level.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I don't think that's a huge issue because I think, honestly,
these kids just want to be developed into NFL players,
and Ohio State's a great place to do that, and
at a number of different or every single position.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
So I'm not terribly worried about that.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
It's more right now about where Ryan Day's eyes are,
who Ryan Day actually is long term, because what we
know about urban Meyer and Nick Saban is that they
are just built differently. They are cyborgs. Nick Saban has
handled things way better off the field than urban Meyer did,
but to be able to maintain that level of excellence

(54:51):
is historically incredibly rare. Ryan Day might be that guy,
or he might just be, as you mentioned, a good
coach but not an all time coach. You're set up
to succeed at Ohio State, but you also have to
bring in that your own ability to maintain. So that
to me is still a giant question mark. Is the
Ryan Day element? And what does he deal look like

(55:12):
with attrition? He inherited a lot of these guys. Now
he lose Jeff Hafley, and he brought in a couple
of his own guys. I think the guys from Michigan, right,
Greg Madison and Al Washington. Madison just retired. So what
does Ohio State look like in terms of Ryan Day's
connections and ability to attract coordinators? Because as good as
Ohio State looks to be for the foreseeable future, that

(55:34):
just means they're gonna be losing dudes for the foreseeable future.
So the attrition thing seems very real, especially if you're
hiring assistants from other parts of the country. Say, that's
worrisome that there is absolutely no proof at this moment
that Ryan Day in year four or five can keep
making incredible decisions, because as we saw with urban Meyer,

(55:55):
he made some bad.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Well, yeah, exactly. I think the risk is always a
little bit higher, clearly when you've got a newer coach.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
I don't think of how State fans look fondly back
at the Greg Ciano defenses all the time.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
No, not all the time. Yeah, this is a big
year for Day. It is a really big year for
Ryan Day. And obviously, look there's a lot more to
it just a quarterback position. But this is a guy who,
to your earlier points, been really good at coaching quarterbacks,
came in with a really good one to help lead
him through years one and two. Who's the guy after

(56:32):
Ryan Day? By the way.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
That he takes like, you know, the Cincinnati Bengals job,
or he takes I don't know what NFL jobs might
become an open sooner or something like that.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
The Texans job. I could see that being a Matt Campbell.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Jeff Haffley, you really like Jeff promising love Jeff Haffley.
I don't know, Yeah, could be Matt Campbell, could be
Jeff Haffley. It's interesting names.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Let's go rapid fire quick here through all right, three
other schools. Let's start with your Oregon Ducks. Dan. First off,
we've seen it recently. Yeah, we've seen it recently ago.
Are are you confident in the crystal Ball era at
this point that he's got them on the straight and narrow,
that that there's a nice upward trajectory We talked earlier

(57:22):
Tyler Schuck is transferring out Anthony Brown with at the starter.
That does not leave me feeling uber confident. But I
do still feel like Oregon's done a really good job
in the recruiting trail and that ye, crystal Ball is
building towards something greater.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Yeah, I think all signs point to a nice run.
The the issues are while they lost this year, to
callan Oregon State inferior talent teams that put together a
better win and took advantage of Oregon mistakes like pretty
good teams do. So he has not built a killer
on the field. Now, they had a ton of opt outs, whatever,
But I'm not here to excuse things. At the end

(58:00):
of the day, you got to win your games. I
think the quarterback issue should be Okay, the problem to
me with Oregon and why they come back down to
earth because I think He's just he's always going to
recruit well, and his assistant hires have been very good.
And Joe Morehead and Andy Avlos. Now we'll see with
Tim de Ruder and whoever is after Joe Morehead, who

(58:21):
I assume is not going to be terribly long for
Eugene maybe another year, maybe two, just because he's from
somewhere else. I think the issue is going to be
an element of being too stubborn in wanting too much
control over in his case the offense, and Oregon is

(58:42):
just is Eugene Oregon going to attract an aid list
coach if Mario Christabal takes Oklahoma or Georgia or something big,
if he wins big at Oregon Miami, who knows what
level coach does that attract. Matt Ruhle chose Baylor over Orgon,
Willie Taggart chose Oregon. They paid him well and he

(59:03):
left right away to go back home to take a
dream job for two years. So how well can Oregon
both attract Chip Kelly was an internal hire as offensive coordinator.
Mike Blotti had a West Coast footprint and was an
offensive coordinator at Oregon.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
He was internal.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
What does Oregon look like in terms of an open
market coaching hire. I think it's a B plus destination
in terms of how attractive it is to the best
head coaches and coordinators across the country. But I don't
think it's a no brainer to pick up your family
and move to Eugene, Oregon. As somebody who did that,
I don't think it's a no brainer. Not my family,
that would have been weird. But it's a medium sized

(59:46):
town in central West Oregon. It's kind of far away
from the hot beds of college football, especially with the
Pac twelve where it is right now.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
So I think that's ultimately what it is.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
It's as as popular as Oregon is with some younger
players and as good as they've built their reputation as
a cool place to play football in practice, what are
they able to attract in terms of a head coach.
That's that's the worry to me as an Oregon fan.
Why they go back to becoming a Holiday Bowl team

(01:00:19):
is so it was a good internal hire of Mario
Cristobal that seems to be working out really well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
It's just it's tough.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
It's still to me, is just very tough because if
you don't have somebody like that. You either need that
like schematic genius like Chip Kelly was, or a guy
who can attract talent and you know, players of coaches
to Eugene, which Mario Christobal is. If you're just a
pretty good coach, you are going to just go to
pretty good bowl games at Oregon. It's hard to overcome that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, And you know, I think back to the Chip
Killy era and it was just so unique. It was
so unique that it gave distinct cred to that program.
People wanted to play for Oregon. Yeah, because of the uniqueness,
because of the offense, and because it was so flashy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
He was pouring points on NFL defense is in La p.
Carroll defenses, pouring points, beating them up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
And christ of Ball is just not that kind of coach.
He's just not right. But that doesn't mean he can't
have a lot of success. And it also doesn't mean
that the early returns haven't been there, because I think
they have so Obviously some of the schools we're talking
about at the end here are a little bit more
prone to spiraling out. Does not seem like Oregon's trending

(01:01:40):
in that direction, but something.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
No, they I mean It's a lot shakier a net
right now in Eugene than it is in probably Tuscaloosa, Columbus, Clemson, Norman,
much shakier net.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
The other school we've got listed here is Notre Dame.
It may Brian Kelly leaving is an interesting thing. It's
interesting for everybody. So I'll just sort of omit it
and I'll talk more about the I think structure of
the program right now. There's a lot of pressure, whether

(01:02:17):
they admit it or not, about Brian Kelly winning the
big one. And we saw the big time win in
November over Clemson at home. Backup quarterback for Clemson, James
Skolsky out for Clemson, but you win that game in overtime.
That was a big deal, big deal for the program.
You go in the AEC Championship game, you get drilled
by Clemson, play in the playoffs, you get drilled against Alabama.

(01:02:43):
M I don't know how many more situations like that
are in Brian Kelly. I don't know how long it
is until eventually the boosters and those in the program
just get fed up with not winning that that big one.
Notre Dame very much is the victim of its own expectations.
It's always been that way. Now that they're here, the

(01:03:05):
expectation is that Notre Dame is going to reclaim its
former glory. And I hate to break it to folks,
but that is just not realistic. That's not reality. What
is that a reference to?

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
What era?

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Because as I can as I can tell right now,
Notre Dame has won four straight double digit seasons for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
But I'm talking national championships. I'm talking national champions early
nineties Notre Dame, sure, sure, late eighties like eight teams
that were just giant killers and consistently in the hunt, realistically,
in the hunt for national championships. If they don't get
there soon, I'm very curious to see what kind of

(01:03:45):
effect that has on the program over the short to
medium term and if that would be enough to force
Kelly out, force Kelly into a state of mind, like
what is it with these people? What do I have
to do? I've built a good program. What do I
have to do? Notre Dame, like you said, has been
a double digit win team now pretty consistently, and they've

(01:04:08):
been solid. The way that he's built this team has
been rock solid, but much to the point of what
you point out with Oregon, you know, there are always
a few position groups or a bad coach hire away
from things feeling like they're getting out of control. I
remember back a couple of years when the quarterback position

(01:04:30):
was unsettled. I went four and eight one year. Remember
that was a time I think fire. Yeah, that season.
Notre Dame, maybe more so than any of these other schools,
has been at that very questionable level recently. And you know, Kelly,
to his credit, he was able to pull it together.
But I just think it underscore is the point that

(01:04:52):
sometimes in these situations, when you're not a juggernaut like
an Alabama or a Clemson, all it takes is a
few things to start to go sideways, to give the
impression that the program is caving, to give the impression
that a change is needed. I don't know how likely
that is, but I'm very curious to watch this season.
I'm very curious to see what happens at quarterback this

(01:05:14):
season because that's the face of the program. Ian Book
was there for three years. Were hateum. He was very consistent.
He won a lot of games. Whether it's Jack Cohne
or Tyler Buckner or somebody else, We're going to have
to see now what Tommy Reese can do with a
new quarterback, with Brian Kelly can do with a new quarterback.
This is not a program that has a whole lot
of a recent track record developing that position. Now, I

(01:05:37):
think they've got depth elsewhere and they're could be very
good along the lines again this season. I hope that
the skill position out wide will be better and facilitate
a much better year at quarterback in the passing sense.
But I think if we're talking about how does this
come off the swivel, I think it could ultimately come

(01:05:58):
off the swivel with Notre Dame and its own base,
its own fan base, its own booster base being the
ones that eventually drive the coach out force a new start.
I don't know who would take that job. We've talked
about that one until we're blue in the face, and
that new start maybe not being as promising as one

(01:06:19):
would hope.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
I mean Notre Dame fired three straight coaches, right, yeah,
So not only would Brian Kelly leaving, who's done a
very good job there hurt, but the track record and
obviously these are different people making different decisions, but in
terms of Notre Dame. Who Notre Dame attracts. Bob Davey
doesn't work out. Ty Willingham doesn't work out, Charlie Weiss

(01:06:41):
does not work out. There's something about Notre Dame. Maybe
it's baked into the DNA. Unofficially, Brian Kelly has a
four and eight year and twenty sixteen Charlie Weiss in
two thousand and seven they go three and nine. Ty
Willingham as a five and seven year. Bob Davey has
a five and seven year nineteen ninety nine. The big
difference between Notre Dame and the rest of these schools,
besides being independent, is a private parochial school. Right, It's

(01:07:05):
different recruiting to Notre Dame. They've recruited some very good classes.
But when you recruit a top eighteen class one year
like Brian Kelly did, I think a couple of years ago,
as compared to a top five class, if that class
doesn't work out, If that class doesn't pan out, that's
a pretty big issue. And hasn't been able to find

(01:07:26):
a quarterback and now that hasn't. When I say a quarterback,
I mean a really strong quarterback. If you believe that
Ian book was that that's fine, but obviously in bigger
games in December January it didn't really work out with
Ian Book and Notre Dame's offense. So there's that element
to things with Brian Kelly. So if Brian Kelly's there,
how does Notre Dame kareem back down to Earth. Well,

(01:07:48):
it's hits in recruiting, it's saying it's top recruits, top quarterback,
saying I don't necessarily want to play for a private
parochial school in the middle of Indiana that hasn't developed
a quarterback into an NFL caliber draft pick in quite
some time, depending on what you think about Deshaun Kaiser
and Jimmy Clawson in their NFL careers their Notre Dame careers.
So what Notre Dame has been able to do has

(01:08:11):
been crazy impressive. But a combination of quarterback maybe some
of those schools on their schedule, be at ACC schools
or the traditional powers that they tend to schedule in
USC and Michigan, whatever. If those teams get better and
then that paired with a couple of those ACC programs,
Notre Dame's on the rise. Clemson certainly is at an

(01:08:32):
incredibly high level. We'll see about Miami and Florida State
if all of a sudden outside of Notre Dame on
the schedule, if that element improves. And Brian Kelly is
somebody who hired Brian Van Gorder to be a defensive coordinator.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
True, yes, So.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Brian Kelly has a dud hire of a coordinator in him.
Like maybe you learn from that, you don't make that
mistake again. But Brian Kelly is capable of making an
absolute dud hire of a coordinator. So that, to me
is also kind of worries some in terms of minicky
car care levels.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Yeah, I think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
I think it's it's again he corrected that emphatically with
Elco and Clark Lee.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
He's done a great job. And I think Marcus Freeman's
another strong hire. Sure coaches are allowed to make mistakes,
it's how they recover from mistakes that's really important. And
I'm with you. I just the margin for air is
it's just different at a place like a Notre Dame. Sure,

(01:09:39):
it's just different because there are some of the variables.
You've got, the high academic standards, you've got you know, what,
do kids want to go to Indiana up play like.
All these things that you've mentioned I think are very,
very true, and so it's a different situation. There's subtleties.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
My brother went to college in Indiana. I had a
great time visiting him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Went to Purdue. It's great, all right, Final one, Georgia,
we're running long over time. I'm looking.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
I'm looking at Brian Kelly's coordinator hires over the years.
Mike Denbrock.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
I mean den Brock was a guy brought with him
from Cincinnati.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Chip Loong was an improvement but didn't work out a
long term. Okay, I think that's actually I think that's
actually something to pay attention to me. I think you're
right about Marcus Freeman. I think he will have every
opportunity to uh to keep Notre Dame's recent defensive success.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Going Final Final one, Georgia, Kirby Smart takes over seemingly
overnight starts to turn that program around. Now it's important
to say turn around is relative, because Mark Rickt was fine.
Mark Richt was decidedly above Monikey car care levels. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
I like this as like a college Football Hall of
Fame induction introduction.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Ladies and gentlemen. Mark Richt was fine. Place he was fine,
which is also the name of Mark Rick's first album,
Polite Applause Continue. But Kirby Smart comes in takes them
to a different level. I'm curious to get your thoughts here,

(01:11:09):
curious to get Georgia. Obviously, if Kirby Smart leaves, you know,
that's the low hanging fruit. But yeah, yeah, that's the
place that's that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
I mean, George is a place that's set up to
succeed like crazy. I mean, Athens is a great town.
The school puts a ton of resources into the program.
The sec East is not you know, wall to wall
killers like it's it's a place that's built to succeed
in a way that many schools aren't. But it's they're
a bad coach, They're probably always going to hire higher,

(01:11:39):
They're always going to to bring in at least a
good quarterback. They're gonna have good quarterback options in normal seasons.
George is a harder place to me. It's almost like Norman.
It's a harder place. The expectations are there without recent results.
So I think patience is going to be a huge issue.
I mean, they were very patient with Mark Rick, who had,
you know, a really good amount of success, but they're
a patient until they're like, okay, this has run its course.

(01:12:02):
But what do they look like now that they've gotten
used to top two three recruiting classes? They make a
national championship game, That's my point. They they're winning the East,
you know, most seasons of most recent years. Obviously Florida
took it this year. But expectation wise, patience wise, I

(01:12:22):
think there's this this sense of Kirby could be in
La Gus Malsan was far more inconsistent in terms of
on field results. But I think there is that element
of Georgia saying we have hit our ceiling with Kirby smart,
that we can't break past the Alabama glass.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
And I think it would be a mistake. And then
to go out and you know, take a chance with
somebody new. I think there is that. I think it's
a patience Hubris thing with Georgia for sure. A right,
well look, Saliverboitgmail dot com right in, let us know
your thoughts. Longer show than usual here, but that's okay,

(01:13:08):
got a little bit into it today, that's fine. Verballers
dot Com again is the Patreon, don't forget got a
fun off topic show. Coming a bonus show content only
available for our Patreon subscribers that we're going to drop
a little bit later on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
This week with sweet content of me talking about a
travel team basketball team I was on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
I have a I have a litany of stories, Dan
that I think you will find exciting, including me on
the basketball court. Oh my god, there was a there
was a moment. There was a moment on the basketball
court that drove me away permanently from basketball forever. And

(01:13:51):
it wasn't me blowing my shoulder out about six years ago.
That was different. Yeah, but back in the day, Ty
Hildebrant setting up shop deep in the corner trying to
pop a three. Are you giving away this content? I'm
not giving anything away. The content gets better, I promise you. Okay,
on Friday bonus content, did you have I.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Want you to tease this out, so don't answer definitively.
Did you have a Freddie Prince junior Jessica Bieal moment
on a baseball field? A what Freddy Prince junior summer catch?

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Ty? I'm aware, I am aware. Are you saying did
I leave the girl.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
At the airport? Did you ever frolic after hours on
a baseball field.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
No no, no, no, hold on, ty you got to
tease it out. I don't know, I want to. You
may want to check out our content. Yeah, all right,
I like summer Catch. Thank you to one and all
for playing along with us here. Stay safe wherever you
may be, Try to stay warm. Hopefully hell is not

(01:15:00):
freezing over on you. It's about to do so. Here
like a half of Race. That'll be great for that
guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein, for myself,
Tyle the brand, thanks so much for downloading, for listening,
Stay safe, stay healthy, stay warm. In the meantime, until
next time, Stay solid. Peace,