Inside the Big Ten TV Draft with Scott Dochterman

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the solid verbal hell.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
That for me, I'm a man, I'm forty.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
be happy. You want to be happy for a day?
Ato Steak, is that woo woom?

Speaker 1 (00:14):
And then and tie.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Dan, I am not going to lie to you.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I am elated, elated, Yeah, to be doing this show
with you today. I am thrilled about this episode.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
I like that it's tickling you right where you need
to be tickled, scratching you. You're where you're itch and
bringing on Scott Doctrman. As you know, you've seen the
title from The Athletic to talk about the Big ten
TV draft, maybe a little Big ten Playoff stuff as
the SEC is positioning itself with how it views the
playoff and the ideas it's looking for to to be
more solution oriented and the Big ten with Tony Pettiti

(00:55):
allegedly preferring or at least pitching the auto bid pitch
for the four plus four plus two plus two. So
right now we're at twelve four four two two one
three one three.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
There is it.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
That's how we run.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Youve got to.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Memorize it then you can get it. I know for
shot I know Scott's been doing great work over at
the Athletic. He has written two articles now, you know,
over the last couple of weeks that have really drawn
our interests. The first go out and read it. We'll
link it up in the description here inside the Big
Tens TV Draft how Fox, NBC and CBS split up

(01:31):
the twenty twenty five football schedule. So look, we come
at it from this perspective. We've been talking about the
TV side of this for generations now, or what feels
like generations.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Collash Mooball's a TV show, Colash.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Football's TV show, love it, hate it, despise it, whatever.
The fact that they have a draft, a draft to
pick which games are being played when and on which
network is fascinating, full stop, don't care what you think
of the fact that they are drafting these games is
of interest to anybody who grew up in the fantasy

(02:05):
football era. Yes, I am excited to talk to Scott
about this and find out what he's learned. Lord knows,
on this show, we've been drafted all sorts of weird
things for as far back as we can remember, so
an actual game draft is definitely of importance. We're going
to focus a good chunk most of our questions on
that structure, about it and how it came to fruition,

(02:27):
all that type of stuff. So we'll get into that
with Scott here momentarily. He also at time of recording,
we're recording this on Tuesday afternoon, late morning, he published
an article today why does the Big Ten want four
automatic college football playoff bids? The league's case has a
long history, so we're going to talk about that as well,
because of course that's very much in the news now

(02:50):
as well. We've got this public posturing, at least on
the SEC side, we have heard a whole lot from
the Big Ten as of late, but we're going to
get Scott's intel on that front as well, so cover
those two things.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
At some point we'll have.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
To bring them back to talk specifically about Iowa football.
But today we're going to focus in a little bit
more on these bigger picture, more national Big Ten related stories.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
We're gonna have to counteract this show that is so
focused on, you know, corporate interests and the business of
college football broadcasting behind the scenes, and next week we're
gonna have to do a show that's just like How
to Play Left guard with Quentin Nelson, Right, we just
need to bring balance into the solid verbal ecosystem whatever,

(03:34):
and not go too far in any one direction. Obviously,
we're going to do our previews coming up here this
summer and you know, get into the more fun element
of all of this. This is very much an early
June show that we're super excited to do. But yeah,
I'm gonna need to hear about hand placement from Steve Hutchinson. Right,
We're gonna need to do something to balance this out.
Go on out to verballers dot.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Com if you want to further support what Dan and
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Speaker 3 (04:18):
Shall we dive right in and with that, it's our
pleasure to bring on the athletics Scott Doctorman, who has
written a couple of fascinating pieces, the first of which
is what truly inspired us to bring him on. But
then I saw a new piece came out today on Tuesday,
June third, as we record this about you know, Jim
Delaney's strategy and the thought of big ten pitching auto

(04:39):
bids and what that may have meant in previous years
for the college football playoff and what it may not
have meant. We had Scott on last year in talking
about the I don't know, it's calamity a good word, ty,
I think so.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
I mean, we tried to unpack what was going on
with Iowa's offense, and at that point in time, our
thinking was, we need to unpack this. We need an
IOWA expert to help us understand not just what took
place this off season or back then in the twenty
twenty three season, but just give us the full evolution
of how we got to this point.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
So with that preamble, Scott, welcome back to the solid verbal.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, I'm thrilled to be here, and at least I
won't have to talk about the drive for three twenty
five anymore.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think it's over, so I think they'll be a
little bit better this year. So, by the way, you
got to talk about other stuff sidebar Fresno State might
have like the best tight ends coach randomly in the
country who just shouldn't be an offensive coordinator. Brian Farrence.
I tell you what, Brian, Yeah, Brian was you know
Rob Grinkowski and I talked to him about this, said,

(05:42):
Brian Ferrence was the best coach he ever had as
a tiight ends coach with the Patriots. Taught him how
to block. Basically described to him, Look, it's like pushing
a car. That's how we attack the defenders. And he
learned how to do it and turn him into a
Hall of Fame blocker as well as receivers. So Brian
is really good in that area. It's a Peter principle.

(06:02):
I mean, he's a great offensive line coach. He was
a very good tight ends coach. I'm sure Fresno State
will have some great coaches there. Everybody who played under
him at that position swears buying Sam Laporta, you know,
all of the above, and it's just calling plays and
designing plays was probably just not his forte.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Fair enough, Okay, so let's start here. You wrote a
piece on the Big Tens TV network draft. Obviously, there
are certain priorities that networks have in terms of, you know,
getting the first one, two, three, four picks or whatever,
and there's a certain order of things. There are trades.
It is truly a fantasy draft with millions upon millions,

(06:42):
if not more, dollars of implications. Be it headline games
within the Big Ten, non conference games. Explain to people
what a TV game draft is in twenty twenty five
in the Big Ten, all.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right, the Big Ten has probably the most unique television
media partner experience of any of the networks. Now you
have the SEC that's an ACC mostly is locked in
with ESPN, say for a couple of games on the
CW for the ACC. The Big Ten has three major
linear partners, Fox, which is the priority number one, and

(07:19):
then kind of an equality relationship with CBS and NBC.
Fox has leaned into its Big noon kickoff, which has
aggravated a lot of Ohio State and Penn State fans
over especially the last few years. But over time CBS
has moved its SEC on CBS Midday to now the
Big Ten, and then NBC has carved out its role

(07:42):
as a prime time network for the Big Ten on
Saturday nights. So the draft process includes those three entities
plus BTN, which has scattered picks later in the draft,
and what they do is they agree on a day.
This year was April thirtieth, and they're all separate. They're
not in one room. Man, I wish they were in

(08:03):
one room.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
That'd be so cool in Macau.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, you know, I bet if you're you know, NBC
can say can we stream this on Peacock or you know, Fox,
can we put this on FS one? Sure, CBS Sports Network.
I mean, Btn, this would have been great, but uh no,
they're they're they're different campuses, kind of scattered throughout like
and it's kind of funny because Fox has like every

(08:28):
there's like three or four people in each one that
are in you know, in that are very much intimately
involved in this process. But like Foxes are on Zoom
with each other, and then they handle the picks via email.
So it just sounds so it's almost like the old
signing day send it through the fax machine thing. It's like,
we got all this technology and we're doing it through

(08:51):
email and that. But they said, look, we used to
do it on a conference call. That got really boring,
so we decided let's, uh, let's do it this way,
but still slack channels, at least with a Slack channel,
you could see so and so is typing, so you're like, okay,
here we go. But how it's kind of set up
after that is that the league determines the draft order

(09:15):
and they place a number with every pick for every
game going all the way to the end, which I
think is I want to say, like one hundred and
twenty three or something to that effect that were available.
They already pull out the Friday night games and those
are in a different category, so they've already dispersed them.
But then when they go from number one, Fox as

(09:38):
the primary rights holder, has the first three picks. Then
it goes and then the next four are NBC CBS,
and it depends on the year, Like last year, NBC
was five, CBS was four, and NBC made a trade
to get up to number three, and so there's trades
that are allowed, so it's kind of cool that way. Yeah,

(10:01):
And then Fox has eight, and then it goes you know, nine, ten,
and then Fox has eleven. So they sit in this
their rooms, their war rooms. CBS was at its in
the conference room, NBC was out in Connecticut at its
Stanford complex, and then Fox was scattered and then they

(10:21):
start selecting So with the first three picks, uh, I
believe it was I know Ohio State Michigan was number one,
and Ohio State Texas was two, and I believe Ohio
State Penn State was three for Fox. They're all winners.
Then four this year was NBC took Oregon Penn State,
and then CBS was a little more coy with who

(10:42):
it picked because it is.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
That an alternating four. Do CBS and NBC alternate by
the year who gets that fourth pep?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, okay, yeah, because like last year, it was CBS
that had four and which caused NBC to jump up
to five because it wanted it. It wanted Oregon Ohio State, right,
and so it felt like that CBS would grab them,
so instead they went ahead and jumped up there, CBA

(11:10):
or Fox fell down to five and still got what
it wanted, which was it was Ohio State, Penn State.
So you know then and they already picked Michigan, Texas
and Ohio State Michigan. So it's fascinating how that works.
And then there's so much strategy involved that I can
get into, but I'll kind of turn it over to

(11:31):
you guys to see what questions you have about.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
This, Oh yeah, fair enough. So okay, let's let's go there. Strategically, Obviously,
people are going to easily understand why Fox would prioritize
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Oregon. You know, take your
pick of the huge schools that have played in huge games,
that have huge followings, that have are proven ratings. Clydesdale's

(11:55):
is a ratings. Clydesdale a term in the TV industry.
I think it is now.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I think it is now.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
So strategically you understand where that comes from. What's the
second level of strategy. Is it just all merit based
or is it week based? Is it you talked about
in your column, like looking at what SEC and Big
twelve and ACC games are and like even though this
you know USC Notre Dame game looks appealing, it there's
a good chance it's going to be up against you know, Alabama,

(12:21):
LSU or something. So from what you could decipher, what
were the second tier strategies of the networks.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Okay, I'll start with let's go go with NBC. They're
kind of the easiest one to read here, and that
is that NBC also has a contract with Notre Dame
and it's an entering. It's thirty fifth year in that
treasures that one. It wants them both to be mutually
beneficial and feed off one of an another. Now, the
one thing that they're looking at is okay, they got

(12:49):
a contract where they could put three Notre Dame games
in prime time. Which ones matter and which ones do
they feel will do the best there? And also on
weeks will they matter against the Big Ten? And say,
I mean, the first one was the most obvious one,
and that was Texas A and M at Notre Dame

(13:10):
because that was a garbage game day for the Big Ten.
There was nothing of value. They had two Big Ten
games and the only other game that was even Power
five matchup was Alabama at Alabama Wisconsin and that was
and then that goes to ESPN anyway, so they had
their pick of nothing. So they said, this is easy.

(13:31):
We got Marquee matchup, good weekend. We're going to take
this and then deprioritize the Big Ten that week. And
so they ended up moving like they picked two games
for Peacock as opposed to Big NBC, and one of
them was Ohio State Ohio at Ohio State. So you

(13:52):
get you know, you get you're gonna get ratings no
matter what because it's Ohio state. But it's it's Ohio.
So the strategy for them is, Okay, which weeks are
ratings gold for the Big Ten that we want to prioritize,
which ones are devalued with Notre Dame. So that all
of this is strategy that they started looking at back
in December. Okay, here's the Big Ten schedule, here's Notre

(14:14):
Dame schedule. How does this all fit and kind of
make that work? And then which you know, and a
couple of times then they can move like a Big
Ten game to the midday on NBC and feed into
the Notre Dame game. But they also aren't going to
make that the priority, say number two overall, when you
can have a really good primetime game and another week
or two with Fox. It's a little different because they

(14:38):
have baseball commitments. And so that's what kept them from
having Friday games in late October last year. I don't
know if you recall, they opened the World Series on
a Friday night, Yankees Dodgers, and it was in LA.
So it's perfect for them. I mean, they couldn't get
gotten better because the USC Rutgers right after that with
like a eleven pm easter and time kickoff, which was

(15:02):
when you think about it, just how how horrible can
you treat one of your teams to make them go
all the way across the country and kick off at
like eleven o'clock at night. But they did. That didn't
happen this year, and two games two weeks were completely
wiped out. But in the big picture, they all look
at what other events are going on? How do we
structure this around? The SEC is obviously one that they

(15:26):
really weigh into, you know, like you know, one weekend
that NBC really was focused on was the twenty seventh
of September, which was the Oregon Penn State Game. Now
it's probably going to go against Alabama Georgia. I know
the time hasn't been set, but that's going to be
a really you know, crazy competition as to who gets

(15:48):
you know what kind of viewership. But they wanted to
build that as a holistically as a big NBC weekend.
They have the Ryder Cup and they wanted the Ryder
Cup to lead into that, and then on Sunday night
they have Dallas screen Bay NFL game, so they figure, wow,
we could really make this a big NBC weekend and
build everything around it. So that was part of their strategy,

(16:10):
and then the Big Ten stays out of it, but
they kind of nudge some things around, and that was
one where they thought, you know, this might be a
good one for NBC. You know, we're not gonna say Fox,
don't take it, but you know it'd be kind of
cool if you left it lifted for NBC on this one.
There are some strategies though, for Fox that are complicated

(16:34):
because of the noon kickoff window, they can't have West
Coast games there, so they're stuck, and they get stuck
from time to time. We saw that last year where
there was a really bad weekend in early November where
maybe the best game or the second best game went
to Friday night that they had. I think it was

(16:54):
Iowa Ucla, which tells you what kind of weekend it
was when we are all good. CBS had the number
one pick and NBC had a Notre Dame game, and
there was like two other games on the West coast. Oh,
I know it was it was a Penn State. Washington
was Penn State wanted that's wide out so badly that
they were willing to go to Peacock for it, and

(17:16):
at night, which prevented that, CBS had the first pick,
and it was Michigan Indiana. And then there was another
West Coast game, so they for Big Noon they had
their choice of Rutgers Minnesota or Ohio State Perdue. And
they're like, well, we're going to go Ohio State because
it's Ohio State. You can play scrimmage there and get
better rings than probably the other game. And and then

(17:38):
you know, when Ohio State fans got mad, it's like, well,
what are you supposed to do here? Right? And so
though they're kind of hemmed in on some of this,
but but they do have, you know, some strategic ideas.
And then CBS is more about kind of looking across
at the SEC. They know they're going to go up
against a decent SEC game, but you know they also
want to, you know, try to build around whatever they

(18:02):
do on the weekend as well.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I mean, I'm getting such big fantasy draft vibes from
this whole thing. I'm giggling like an idiot over here
because it reminds me of drafts that I had back
in like two thousand and five. I can only imagine
what that's like, waiting for the email to come in,
trying to then plot what your next move is.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Was there anything that.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Surprised you, Like I heard email as the primary medium
for this that surprised me. You reported the story, Are
there any other items of note that surprised you?

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, that part did too, because you think of all
the wet bays. You know, we're communicating. Everybody else's communicating
face to face, and you'd think that they'd have it,
you know, in some sort of fashion that way. Now
we're going to go email. That was a little strange,
you know, but you know it's like, well, what are
you going to text each other? I guess that'd probably
be even easier. But they all kind of had their

(18:55):
little funny moments talking about it. One was like, it's
you know, there's no chimes that go no, you know,
here's the or anything like that. One of the things
that I talked about I didn't quite get in the
story that I thought was really interesting. I said, were
there ever any moments where you were like, yes, we
got this game, or oh man, we just we were

(19:17):
waiting on that one.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Can't believe they sell to us.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah. Yeah, we all do that in fantasy football every year.
You're like, oh, god, one, you know, and they're like, yeah, absolutely,
and they're like, you know, our stomach's churning, we're sweating,
we're you know, and then it comes to us and
we yell and then we don't if we don't get it.
We we were really frustrated visibly.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Is there a time limit, by the way on the picks? Like,
did they have to send an email within twenty minutes?
There was nothing, no limit.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
No, there's no countdown, there's no clock, I asked. I said,
it's insane, but busted like Minnesota did to be back
in the you know, ten twenty years.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Agoah, you should be forced to auto draft Rutgers Minnesota
if the pick isn't in like drafting the wrong Adrian
Peterson from the Bears.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, an all time troll of a move.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
The other thing I wanted to ask Scott, like to
that end, did you hear anything of there being a
particular game that was selected earlier than expected? Is so
called reach because we all do that in fantasy football
as well. Right, there's a guy that you're kind of
fixated on for whatever reason, Bondie, Like sometimes at defies logic.

(20:27):
Were there any of those or is just like cold
hard numbers that are driving these decisions.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
There wasn't anything like that. And here's why, because once
you get past the big games, they draft weekends, right,
So let's that and that's where they actually do their
best work. Probably because anybody can say, well, yeah, we
want Texas and Ohio State or we want Oregon Penn State.

(20:55):
I mean that makes sense. You know, you get wide
out in Happy Valley, two teams played for the championship.
You know that's going to sell like crazy. But then
you start to get into some other weeks where we're
looking at it, you know, three and a half four
months in advance, and we're going, okay, who's you know what,
which games are going to stand out? Well, let's take
like October eleventh, for instance, and you've got you know,

(21:17):
some really good games Ohio State at Illinois. That could
be you could have two teams in the top ten
potentially if Illinois, you know, comes to play, or if
Illinois goes back to being Illinois. Before you know, they
could be losing to Indiana and a couple other teams
and all of a sudden, you're going, yeah, you know,
we don't want to draft them in Iowa, Wisconsin. You know,

(21:37):
maybe Wisconsin gets off the mat and maybe Iowa was
good with Mark Gronowski and all of a sudden that's
a hey, you know, it's a camp Randall. Maybe we
want this to be primetime or something. And then you're
like a, you know, Michigan USC. You know, is it
the Michigan USC we saw last year or is it
the Michigan USC from two years ago? Indiana, Oregon? Same thing?

(21:58):
You know? Is this? You know, is IU do they
go and they beat Illinois and Iowa or are they
you know, just kind of fall back to the pack,
you know, And that's why you draft the weekends. And
what one of the strategies that pretty much all of
them have told me is like, it's not so much
to be number one, it's to make sure you're not
number three on a bad weekend. Because now all of

(22:21):
those games are are legitimate. You know, there's probably four
decent games, and then there's a couple others that might
fit into that too, like a you know, UCLA, Michigan State.
Who knows, you know, maybe Nico is great and Aidan
Chiles is great, and that's that fits in there too,
but you just don't want to all of a sudden
go oh man, we got stuck with a really bad
game and kind of like what Fox did.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
So as to say when you when you're saying, when
you draft a weekend, it's at a certain point there
they own the right to prioritize a match up that weekend.
When when do they select? It's a two week window.
When is the selection?

Speaker 2 (22:55):
It's a twelve day and a six day Okay, you know,
so they're all every week is given that twelve day priority,
but I believe it's twice per year that they could
wait until six days it to be like the Sunday morning,
and that's predicated on the results on that Saturday. You know,
you might get you know late in the year. You know,
there's a couple of games that really, you know, kind

(23:16):
of stand out and you're thinking, you know, do we
want you know, like after the Ohio State Penn State result,
you know what, maybe Ohio State's undefeat and you're like, yeah,
I know they're playing Perdue, but that's still Ohio State.
Or maybe Penn State pulls the upset and plays Indiana
and that's our number one you just you want to
wait until that result takes place. So I did. I

(23:36):
did ask specifically though, what were the games that really
caused you that ah moment and or the or the anguish?
And they were they said, we had them, but I'm
not going to tell you which ones they work. So
of course that's gamesmanship, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly, Scott. With
respect to the whole Big Noon thing, love it or
hate it, Fox has clearly made a brand out of it.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
It is its own product. Now, everybody who follows college
football sort of knows what's going on in that world.
What do the other network people think of it? Because
as a fan, clearly we understand why it's frustrating. But
from a network perspective, as we've come to know now
these last five years or so, their view of the

(24:20):
college football world tends to be a bit warped and
through a different lens than the rest of us. Did
you get any commentary on that front?

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, I mean from Fox they loved it. And the
reason why is it's fertile territory. We always kind of
grew up, especially a big ten country. It's like, all right,
you've got you know, Beth Mowens and Pam War doing
the ESPN two game or you know you're got you
know it's perdue Northwestern and but the kind of the
Big ten mindset all these years was Moon is Week

(24:51):
two thirty was the Golden era, and then three or
four or five times you get that primetime game and
you're really excited about it. Well everything is completely changed.
I mean all the windows are open. You know, you've
got FCS versus Big ten teams in prime time. But
when it comes to Big Noone in particular, Fox is
leaned in on it because they felt like, you know,

(25:13):
especially four or five years ago, it's like, well, we're
gonna have to go against the best SEC game in
the midday. They tried that. It didn't really work. Prime
Time is the same type of deal. You you know,
you're going to go up against a great game there.
But noon people are just finishing up their game day
show and it's like, wow, here's a really good game
to start your day. And it works. The ratings are

(25:34):
high for it, you know. They One of the things
that Mulda Hill told me Mike Mulda Hill from Fox is, look,
you could take out the top three team games we
picked last year and we still had a higher average
big ten numbers than everybody else, and I'm like, okay,
you know Ohio State, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and
Michigan Texas. He removed those three and they still have

(25:55):
high numbers, so they're going to lean into it. They
do respect though, that some the schools don't like it
or don't like it that often. And that's what we
saw with the Texas Ohio State situation that went down
that you know, opening weekend, Labor Day weekend. They figured, hey,
that even though that Sunday night I think has Miami

(26:16):
Notre Dame, they wanted to move that into prime time
on a Sunday night, and Ohio State was all for it,
you know, special nights, you know, fertile territory. They don't
have a game against anybody of value the next week.
Then uh, but Texas, which was contractedly contractually right, said no,
we don't want to do that, and so then it

(26:36):
got moved back to be to noon. But what they're
trying to do is show that they are making efforts
to help the schools out and that's that's It's gonna
be an ongoing process. And I think what the skit
the league did this year a little bit better job
was of its kind of week by week is it's
not leaving Ohio State out there hanging. I think there's

(26:58):
some other games that they can plug because as I
said that, you know, you if you had like one
of the week's Iowa Oregon, you couldn't have it at
Big Noon, but if now you can because it's in
Iowa City. It's just kind of those differences.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
You mentioned the Rutgers eleven pm local kickoff last year,
which is insane to still think about. I had completely forgotten.
I remember that there was a doubleheader, but the timing
escaped me. Were there any other errors that networks were
looking to correct. Were there lessons learned from previous drafts
that they said, Okay, I am never again going to

(27:34):
prioritize this kind of game or this week or this
scheduling strategy.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah. The one that really crept up to them that
you know, there were a few, but one that stood
out immediately when they got feedback on was last year
with Michigan State. Michigan State played on peacock on a
Saturday night at home against Ohio State and then had
to turn around that Friday and play Oregon on the road,
and so you had a six day window against two

(28:01):
of the top you know, two or three teams in
the country, and you know, and you have the other
factors that they really don't throw in there, like brand
new coach and but but to expect the team to
go out there and play that type of opponent, you know,
six days apart, was really unfair, they felt, and Michigan
State expressed that, and then they look back and said, okay,

(28:23):
and then a few of the other things that they're
working on as they go as best that they can.
Is while Ohio State had its last six games upear
on noon, five of which on big noon you know,
Wiscon or Michigan State I think had five night games.
Iowa had four or five night games and uh, you know,
three of which I think in November. So you had

(28:45):
a kind of a skewed view. So they're they're trying
to figure out how to you know, slowly, you know,
not have so many night games from one team and
maybe be able to push Ohio State into the into
the primetime a little bit more often. So those were
some of the the takeaways that they had from their scheduling,
and you know, but there are some things they just
can't get away from, which is the travel component. Now

(29:07):
that you're on the West coast, it's gonna be difficult.
They've tried to adjust it, and this is the second
year of a fourteen week season, and so next year
they're gonna have to redo this. But where the West
coast teams, they don't play two road games. If they
go east, you know, they'll go you know, USC goes
to Illinois, then a couple of weeks, then they go

(29:29):
home and they either have a buy or they have
a home game, you know, something like that, as opposed to, Okay,
you're going to Illinois, you fly back and then you're
going to Rutgers or something like that. That's just so,
but it's difficult, you know, to do that with this
kind of inventory.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Do you think that by giving this whole process a
little bit more visibility, you have inadvertently turned it into
more of a production.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
I was just looking for something interesting to write this
time of the year.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Because this is not uncommon. This is not uncommon when
somebody sheds a little light on anything, really, especially something
that I think has roots in the fantasy draft culture
that we all know and love from you know, kurrent
her previous lives. It would not be out of the
realm of possibilities that next year or at some point

(30:22):
in the future, this becomes more of a talking point,
more of a production, more of a thing that college
football fans can watch and cheer on and you know,
set their watch.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
By Oh, I'm sure they're going to get a few
people who ask me when is the draft wins are
going to be held? And it varies by the year.
It's not a you know, it was like the Wednesday
after the NFL Draft this year, and sometimes it's a
little earlier, sometimes it's a little later. But I'm sure, yeah,
next spring that's going to be a topic everybody. When
is it going to be held? When are they going
to do it? And then afterwards, I know, am I

(30:55):
going to try to get intel like it was one
of those old fashioned basketball secret scrimmage where you're calling
the assistant coaches, so who did what?

Speaker 3 (31:03):
You could be the mel.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Kuiper of this could be you know, I mean, I
need my hair is disappearing in the back, so I
need some slickness to it.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
But I mean, the only the only problem with that is,
of course people look at TV as ruining the sport,
and so then we're going to highlight TV networks who
people hold accountable for changes in the sport and all
being driven by TV money and sort of making celebrities
out of them, Like we're hosting a like egg price
raising TV show. Obviously I would watch that, but no,

(31:37):
it's sort of an interesting, you know, part of the sport.
Of course, I wonder with with the draft, with you
mentioning the schedule changes and the feedback that the conference
got and the network got. I wonder where this is
going with regard to networks and getting games, and like

(32:00):
the one of the byproducts of the TV deal is
like we're getting CBS games network television games or NBC
primetime games that never would have existed because it was
a three and six team against a four and five
team and it would have been relegated to the Big
ten network. But these are the slots that you know,
NBC and CBS have, Like are they a little bit

(32:21):
upset about putting an uninspiring matchup on prime time airwaves?
Like is there any sort of buyer's remorse about either
NBC and CBS and their place in the Big ten
TV deal or are they just thrilled to have live
football because it'll do enough of a rating that even
though on the face having you know, two non Bowl

(32:43):
teams play again on primetime network TV seems weird, but
you know, is it still a win.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Ultimately it's a win for them because of the ratings
are still pretty good. They're not the SEC is shown
to have more depth, and I don't know if that's
just team names that work better, the fact that they
don't beat each other up as much and you know,
have one less league game. But overall, you know, I
think we've seen it, especially not so much last year,
but the year before there were some primetime games you're like,

(33:13):
you see you know, you know, but now that they
have eighteen teams, it kind of gets spread out. And
I think last year was somewhat unique in that that
Michigan was really slow out of the gate and I
lost a couple of games early, USC never really got
off the mat, and we didn't know how good Indiana
and Illinois were until the season was really progressing. So

(33:34):
now kind of going into this season, we think Illinois
could be a top fifteen team. It should be a
top fifteen team anyway, coming out of the and then
maybe maybe they're gonna be good Indiana. Can they do it?
Repeat it, and I will finally put together an offense.
And then you got your your blue bloods and teams
like Oregon that you feel like they could be something,

(33:55):
you know, special again. So they do have better inventory.
But what I could say about out the non conference
schedule is that absolutely has to change or they have
to change the schedule to accommodate the networks, because they
did have to provide an exemption to Fox in week
two because there was nothing there at all. All there

(34:15):
all the Big Tens road games were all the Big
Ten's major games were on the road, and so they
only had what two games that they controlled pitting Power
conference teams that that Saturday. One was Boston College at
Michigan State, which is a nice game. Maybe one team

(34:37):
goes to a bowlgang, Yeah, but that that goes to NBC,
so that kind of vaults the top. And then the
other one is Oklahoma State at Oregon, which when it
was made looked like a great game. Oklahoma State obviously
went to nine and the Big Twelve last year, so
that changes things. But there was nothing left for Fox.
You know, they were strongly considering opening up with well,

(34:57):
at least because Ohio State's playing Grambling, you can't really
go there, you know. And then Michigan's at Oklahoma, so
then you're going, well, Penn State's at home, they're playing
but they're playing FIU. What are we doing here? So
they got an exemption because they decided, you know, they
still have a Big twelve contract, and Iowa plays Iowa State,

(35:18):
and that's to day the kirk Farans can pass Woody
Hayes as the winning his coach in Big Ten history.
It's too you know, it's a Big ten team at
a Big twelve team, a rivalry game. It's you know,
they can do big noon kickoff. So instead of playing
it at like four, which is what the plan was,
they said, we just moved this into our noon time slot.
And then they ended up saying okay and did that.
But but in the future, the Big Ten is going

(35:40):
to have to start going to these teams and because
what's funny to me is that thirteen out of the
eighteen actually played ten Power five opponents, you know, so
they've actually got decent non conference schedules for that part.
But they've got to do something about the scheduling itself.
They can't just have these free weekends when you have

(36:00):
three linear partners. It's one thing if you're the SEC
and you can put it on ESPN two when you're
playing Memphis and Oldness or something like that, but you
know you can't put NBC, you know, acron A Nebraska.
You know, it's just is this not going to work?

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Were there any I don't know how to describe this
like draft crushes. Obviously there are the games early that
people are selecting, not early necessarily, but the picks are
early that involve, you know, the big headline ratings, Monster ratings,
Clydesdale teams. Is it apparent that any of these networks
are sort of buying low or think bigger things about

(36:39):
a specific team, like a CBS like very bullish on Nebraska,
or is Fox like it was there any sort of
apparent like, hey, this team might not be super attractive
right now, but we think they could have a special
season and we might be getting a big value play
by circling our wagons around this team.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
I think when you go to week four that they've
got that kind of setup right now, and that's the
CBS going with deciding already to announce it. Michigan at
Nebraska in the midday. I think they're playing that one
of those two teams, the winner of those two teams
is going to make a play. And Michigan, of course
is a ratings goliath. Nebraska is also pretty good despite

(37:22):
its you know, lack of success over the years recent years.
So I think they're they're figuring great atmosphere at Nebraska
as it always is. Michigan, your two name programs winner
is going to get a bump, They're going to be ranked,
They're probably you know, and I think both teams could
could be ranked even if Michigan loses at Oklahoma. And
so I think that's where they really kind of drew

(37:44):
the line because there's also some pretty good games too
that are available. CBS also took as part of its
Pack two coverage Washington and Washington State, so it leads
into the Apple Cup. But then under Big ten control,
you've got Illinois and Indiana, which I think is going
to be a fantastic game, and Oregon at Oregon State.
I mean, it may not be very good, but it's

(38:05):
still a rivalry game the Civil War. And Michigan State
at USC. I think that's also intriguing to me. So,
but by announcing those two that game early, I think
it really signifies that they are there. They're all in
on the winner going forward, and they play it all
the way out where they picked Nebraska Iowa on Black
Friday as well.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Scott, How many people are involved in an operation such
as this, because as we're talking this through, I'm thinking
of what we go through when we're trying to preview
teams in advance of a season. I'm sure everybody kind
of in our world does something similar.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's hard.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
There's a million data points that you have to try
and consider just when figuring out which teams do we like,
which players do we like, which storylines are worth following
and mentioning to the audience. But then you have to
layer on top of it the added math of this
team brings in X million of an audience each time
they play, Like, there's that whole other, like, I don't know,

(39:06):
quantitative level of this with respect to TV that you
have to try and factor in as well. Were there
different approaches to preparation to putting together those big boards?
What did it look like from that standpoint?

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Each of the networks have about three people in their
war rooms, you know, and and they're the head of
programming for sports. I talked to each one of them
who really made the final call, and and then a
couple other people who really handled that sport specifically, are
you know, intimately evolved. And they go through war games

(39:39):
starting in December when the Big ten announced, it's great,
it's it's it's pretty cool that they, like NBC told me, look,
we split our teams up, and then we had other
people with those teams, and it's like, you go in
this room today, your Fox. You go in this room today,
you're CBS, and we're going to be NBC, and we're
going to try to figure out what their ideas and

(40:01):
their strategies are. And then you look around, Okay, well
they've got the World Series this week, so they're not
gonna think about you know something here, you know, or
well they've you know, they've got Notre Dame at night,
so we're going to focus on a really big game
earlier in the day. So they're trying to kind of
figure all that out, and then they go through multiple

(40:24):
mock drafts. They said that almost weekly, and then it
comes down to almost daily as they get closer, because
they just want to figure out how it plays out,
so ultimately they don't get surprised. That's what they really want.
And and but so it's really sounds like that, you know,
Moli Hill's like, I don't. I've never been in an
inside an NFL war room, but it kind of feels

(40:44):
like it, you know, because they because they just play
this scenario out so much and then they get their
their selections and it's it's kind of funny. I mean,
it's kind of like with the NFL draft when you
play a mock draft and you're like, you know, that's
not that hard. You know, we can just pick this
thing here. But when you're talking about the difference between
you know, looking at the tangible numbers not just wins

(41:07):
and losses and how good this team is, but also
TV numbers, and then the thing that they all kind
of express that's been the most challenging for them is
now with the portal that they're trying to follow the
moves and who's adding, who's going where? You know, what
does this team look like? Is if you're talking about
ten years ago and Ohio State lost all of its

(41:28):
players fifteen to the NFL and draft picks and everything else.
You might say, yeah, they're due for a down year.
Now they reloaded. You know, they've already got a lot
of talent, but you know they reloaded. Can you know,
and they're looking at each and every team like, wow,
can Mark Ronowski really take this team from you know,
offensively being challenged in Iowa City to maybe, you know, hey,

(41:49):
they're playing Oregon, they're playing Indiana, they're playing Penn State
all at home. Maybe that's something we want to eye on.
Is this something we think can happen? You know? And
then they're reading everybody's you know, reporting and whatever. So
they're analyzing this so deeply that you know that actually
kind of came off as a surprise, you know, because
you'd think that they cared and they it have mattered,

(42:11):
but man, they really they go all in on this.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Are there any risks and this sounds silly, I grant you,
are there any risks of corporate espionage, which, by the way,
I haven't not heard, like there are whispers that you know,
the sort of subtext of all of this is this
is all happening in a broader Disney Fox like shadow battle,

(42:38):
right with the big ten in the SEC one. I
think there's like currently a Disney YouTube TV lawsuit over
an executive leaving Disney for YouTube TV. And then there's
like you know, proprietary, non disclosure, non compete types of
things going on, like have there ever been Maybe you
don't know the answer to this question, That's fine. This
is just me asking like poaching potential of like Fox

(43:02):
trying to take an NBC person or vice versa, because
all of a sudden, now you don't need a scout
team running, you know, backup quarterback as Cordell Stewart. You
actually have somebody who understands the Fox mindset or the
NBC mindset. Has has that been a part of this
at all? Behind the scenes, There haven't been any moves.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I did ask a little bit kind of not quite
espionage term, but you know about some of the strategies
and whether they you know, do you guys afterwards you
get together and you you know, over drinks and just go, man,
I can't believe you took this or right there has
a been there he's he's They're like, you know, we're
all colleagues, we're all friends, we all get along, but

(43:43):
you know, we're also competitors, and we also have our
own little thoughts that we don't want to share. So
they don't quite rehash the draft necessarily. Maybe they will
pick or two here and there.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
But.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Nothing, as far as I would say, is espionage. But
I can see where it could happen.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yeah, you know when you look at.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
You know, for instance, you let the like a Notre
Dame game at night, and then you somehow find a
way if you're Notre Dame, Hey, we're also we're going
to use a high pick on that week, so we're
going to leave everybody's you know, we're gonna have the
best uh you know pick that week leading into the
Notre Dame game. You're like, dude, what are you doing?

(44:23):
You know, you're not even having your big ten game
in prime time or you're going to move it to
Peacock or something like that that you know, they're opportunities
for it for sure, and I hope I find out
about them it's really did happen, And oh man, I
can't wait.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
That would be an incredible story. And I would imagine
there are very few people who are going to have
the sources and access more so than you. My final
question is about the story you wrote today, which I
you know, it definitely ties into everything we've spoken about before.
But you mentioned Jim Delaney's stance as it relates to scheduling,
as it relates to positioning team to look good in

(45:01):
the eyes of the College Football Playoff Committee Selection committee,
and the reported Tony Petiti pitch for four auto bids
for the Big Ten as opposed to the five plus
eleven model, which I think has sort of come out
after those four plus four plus two plus two plus.
I can't do all the math and I head this
quickly on the fly, but getting to sixteen teams and

(45:23):
that it may the autobid element may have cost the
Big Ten, which is also something that the SEC has
talked about. And you know we have Greg Sanke going
up on his pulpit talking about, you know, the analytics
favor the SEC's road more so than anybody else is
via strength of schedule. Where is the Big Ten today
in terms of its preferences, how it is approaching its

(45:47):
strategy for pitching, you know, the future of the College
Football Playoff? Where does that stand and where do you
expect them to land? The Big Ten in terms of preferences?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
First of all, the Big Ten needs to start talking.
This has been this is been going on for too long.
And Tony Pettitt likes working behind the scenes. He doesn't
really like being out there vocal, whereas Greg Sank he
has no problem with it. But you know, they're taking
up all the oxygen and there's they've changed the narrative
the SEC in the Big Ten. A couple of months ago,
I was in New Orleans when they had their Divide

(46:17):
the World sum at Part two and it was like
they were, you know, they're in lockstep in a lot
of areas. And now it just seems like the SEC
is kind of back to this being, you know, having
its swagger out there and this is why we think
it should be, and the Big Ten is kind of
taking a step back from the forefront and kind of
you know, seated that ground. And then you have the
ACC and Big Twelve saying well, yeah, it should be

(46:40):
five plus two, you know eleven, that's that's the fairest
way to do it. Well, you know, I would say
that the Big Ten had the reason why it's not
wholeheardly embracing this and actually I put the numbers between
what it would be if but the current constitution, because
it's kind of hard to go back and forth, but
the current team constitution over the last four years one
versus the other, and the really the the strategy is

(47:05):
that they have a lot of PTSD from what happened
ten years ago and this was and they would have
First of all, they would have gotten more teams in
at five plus eleven. Then they would have at the
guarantees that they're asking for. But the other part is
in twenty fifteen, Jim Delaney decided, since we're in a
playoff era, we're going to position our teams the best

(47:26):
possible way to be competitive to not only make the playoff,
but also make New Year six Bulls, which were a
little bit more important than they are today, I mean
from that perspective. And so he unveiled this what he
called nineteen ten. You know, a numerical acronym. You know
that they're playing one championship game, nine Big ten games

(47:46):
because they were at eight one intersectional opponent or which
would be just a non power conference team, and then
no FCS opponents. He figured that would provide them with
the strength of schedule to put them in the In
the conversation every year for not only the playoff, but
then also for major bowl games, and a couple of

(48:08):
years in it got proven that that just didn't matter.
And one of it was when Ohio State twice got
left out as champions, and what they were looking at
wasn't so much. You know, Ohio State lost one game
in the Big Ten each of that seventeen and eighteen years.
One was at Iowa, one was at Purdue. Both were blowouts,

(48:28):
both were surprising. But they're also looking at it. Look,
if we were at eight games and we're divisions, maybe
we're not even playing that game. Maybe they're playing Grambling
or they're playing Morgan State, or they're playing you know,
Mercer or whatever, and so that game wouldn't have happened,
and we would have been better off not playing nine

(48:48):
as opposed to playing nine. And whereas other leagues, meaning
the SEC primarily but also the ACC, you're not having
that opportunity where half your team's loose. And also in
the month of November, there are those non conference games
against a group of five teams or FCS opponents where
when you're in the middle of the season, sometimes you

(49:10):
just you run out of gas. You're on the road,
at a conference team and you get a hit with
a buzzsaw, and so they were really frustrated through that.
And then the one that really sent them over the
top was in twenty eighteen, and this is about a
bowl game. Nevertheless, Penn State get ranked twelfth. Florida was
tenth l she was eleventh LS. She was way out.
It was fine. Florida had two FCS opponents. They played

(49:33):
a three and nine Georgia or three and nine Colorado
State and then Florida State, which had a blow of
five hundred record and it really did not have a
very good schedule, but it did beat LSU. And whereas
Penn State played pitt which was a Coastal Division champion,
played at eleven and two Appalachian Stage, played some really

(49:57):
good top five competition, and yet it was still ranked
behind Florida. So Delaney's like, well, what do we do now,
you know, how do we get this? Now? Is it
all eye test? If it is all eye tests, then
these are really uneven, you know. And now he's of course,
you know, two commissioners removed from the Big ten. But
now they look at it as we don't want to

(50:17):
get into a situation where our nine league. Our nine
game league schedule is a detriment when you're comparing to
an eight league schedule. So that's why we want guarantees.
We're different, we're built differently. We want it. We have
nine games, they have eight. We feel like we're going
to be competitive, and the numbers show that they have

(50:37):
still gotten the same or similar numbers. In fact, they
we've had fewer numbers in the in the auto bid
era than they would have if it was just five
plus twelve. But we feel like this is a better
way for us to guarantee it. Now, if the SEC goes, okay,
we're going to go to nine games and then I
could then the big ten will probably come down, you know,
whether it's five plus eleven or there's a little bit

(50:59):
different guarantees set up, they would come down from that.
But if the SEC doesn't go to nine games, and
then it won't budge on on the guarantees.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
By the way, Greg Sankie did mention that those two
FCS opponents that Florida played, the analytics couldn't measure heart,
couldn't measure grit, and so Greg Sankie, now Greg Sankeie
coincidentally did not mention that in his strength of schedule tirade,
he wasn't a tirade, but his presentation, Scott doctrman, we've

(51:29):
taken up enough of your time. Thank you so much.
Everybody read. Everybody follows Scott at the athletic. He's writing
terrific stuff about national college football, Big ten football, you
name it, and I just I can't wait to see
where the draft goes next season. Part of me hopes
it's an entertainment spectacle with Fox bringing like the guy
who does the voice of Homer Simpson to announce their

(51:51):
picks in the way that like the NBA lottery bring
like good luck charms, and part of me is horrified
by this whole ordeal. So Scott, thank you very much
for your time, and everybody check them out.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Thanks so much for me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
So look, I don't know how interesting that was to
people listening at home.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
I think it was. I think it definitely was.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
I can't speak for the for baller hood. I've been
on the edge of my chair for the last forty
five minutes.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
I swallowed that interview whole.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
I loved every second of it, just the idea of
there being a draft of these games, that there are
network dorks scattered about the country via email, which I
cannot stress enough. You need the patience of a dead
horse to do an eight hour email draft. I have

(52:48):
done it. It sucks, It's terrible, but it's something so
nerdy and yet of such critical importance to these networks
to be stick draft. I want to broadcast it next year.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
You want to buy the rights?

Speaker 1 (53:04):
We're the biggest independent college football show out there.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Can we get the rights to this with not a
real rooting interest to put it up on the YouTube channel?
We can get like our own media consultant, whoever to
break down the numbers. I want to broadcast this thing.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
I want the Excel Championships and I'm bringing back Jason
Bennetti to call it. I want the big ten TV draft.
I want things that ESPN, the OCHOL wouldn't even consider, yes,
wouldn't even consider airing. I want what's on Is there
like a quilting Championships? I know there's a shilting reality
show on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
There's a championship for everything.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
I want highly. I want the the what's it called
the cast Iron Cleaning championships. There has to be something
like that, right, sure, restoration cast iron restoration championships. I
want it all, Tie, I want it all. But yes,
I think it was fasting absolutely. You know this is
this is the gears and pulleys behind the scenes of

(54:04):
how we consume this sport. So it is relevant. It
is interesting to me. You know, you mentioned the fantasy
draft of it all, and it is what I was
also picking up vibe wise, was are you a Sidoku guy?

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I wouldn't say I'm a Sudoku guy, but.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Like if you're on a plane and extremely bored and
you know, one of your your iPad dies or something
like that, and you're like, all right, I don't even
know if planes have the magazine. I don't know if
American Way or whatever exists anymore. But there was something
the mechanics and strategy of like Okay, a three can't
be here or here, but a three can go in
this square, a seven can't go here, Like the piecing

(54:41):
of that kind of strategic puzzle of like, well, we
can't air because we got the World Series, We've got
the Ryder Cup, we've got the whatever event, We've got
this game already circled here, so we can't do this
team here, or we can't air this then like there
is that like moving around the nines and eights and
three in twos, and you know, right like there was

(55:03):
that strategy element is what I was picking up from
him as well. So it's it's all fascinating the way,
and you know, the people involved would obviously say something
like it's not as interesting as you think.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Oh, I'm sure it is.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
There's no way it can be, especially if it's conducted
via email. There's a lot of sitting around. Scott talked
about it in his piece. There's a lot of sitting around.
I'm sure there's a lot of donuts. I'm sure there's
a lot of small talk waiting for the email ding.
But at the same time, in our little world that
we've constructed here as college football fans, it kind of

(55:37):
starts there. The season kind of starts there. All too
often when a game is played, on what network it's played,
who is calling the game, All of these things factor
into the fan experience.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
It's also interesting because while you know, I sort of
half joked about corporate espionage and hiring away some you know,
programming person from CBS going to five and vice versa.
They're all kind of on the same team here because
NBC's eggs are all in Big Ten in Notre Dame.
CBS's eggs are from a major conference level, I believe

(56:13):
all on the Big ten now right without their SEC show,
I don't believe they're calling ACC or Big ten games.
I know they have G five conferences on CBS Sports
Network and other CBS games as well on main CBS,
but in terms of the major conference presence, it's Big Ten,
and obviously Fox has Big Twelve, but it's bread is

(56:34):
buttered by the Big Ten, and their investment is by
far the largest into the Big Ten than any other conference.
They're all kind of pulling in the same direction, right.
A healthy robust ratings monster Big ten is good for
everybody in these meetings, so it's not like they're really
sworn enemies. Whereas when this draft was happening, when ESPN

(56:54):
was a Big Ten partner, and ESPN has had its
toes in the Big Ten, in the Pac ten to twelve,
well in the ACC and the Big twelve, right, that's
when I think it might have even been more cutthroats
that I think battle lines were more obvious when there
was the ESPN ABC element to this all, whereas like
CBS just like had its big SEC game right, there

(57:15):
were rules involved with who they could pick and not pick.
You know, a team couldn't be in that spot more
than a certain number of times, the three thirty spot,
but like they were sort of set there. NBC had
their notre ed aim and Fox and ESPN were the
ones sort of playing was risk. That's the global battle
for domination. I would imagine it was maybe more cutthroat

(57:38):
than in the draft, and now it's just more of
a shadow battle. I'm serious.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Oh, I love this so good.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
I love this.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Yeah, I want to do this.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Episode every year with Scott. Beautiful, beautiful. Well look, thank
you to one and all for downloading, for listening, for
supporting again for Ballers dot com as a Patreon if
you want to further support what we do. Thanks to
Scott gave us like an hour of his time here
to do this and talk through not just the game
draft but also the backstory with the Big ten and
the four automatic bids. We're of course is going to

(58:11):
have to see where all of that comes down. They've
gotten until December the first to figure it out. It's
not the last we've heard of it, but clearly the
Big ten and SEC are going to be kicking up
some dust on this front throughout the summer and as
we get deeper into the year. So we'll cover that
as best we can here on the show. Again, if
you made it this far, hit follow, hit subscribe, if
nothing more, we do appreciate your support. It helps us immensely.

(58:34):
Dan all right, we've got more episodes to record today actually,
as we kind of plan for the weeks that are ahead,
so we'll get to doing that. We would encourage you
again reach out on social media or via email soliverbal
at gmail dot com if you have anything further to
say or add or any thoughts to get off your chest.

(58:55):
We've been getting a lot of them, a lot of
them over the last couple weeks here, people talking about
the playoff format, talking about some of the previews that
we've done, their expectations for teams, and the likes.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
So keep them coming.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
We can't respond all of them, but we do read
all of them and appreciate your feedback. We're getting a
little bit closer, Manet, a little bit closer it's.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
June now, yeah, I mean I still need to find
out who Quentin Nelson's booking representative is. Let's not get
it twisted. June is June. But it's still feeling good.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
For that guy over there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein
for a guest of honor today, Scott Document of the
Athletic Go and check him out. We will talk to
you all next week. In the meantimes, they saw it
peace

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