#334 Can We Rebuild Trust in Healthcare? w/ Mary Talley Bowden

Episode Transcript
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(01:16):
Welcome to the state of freedom everyone where we are committed and you our faithfulviewers and listeners are committed to giving voice to the truth, to being people of
courage and to being people who take action.
It's Thursday, September 18th at 10 a.m.
Central.
I'm Danielle Walker and I'm joined by my good friend and co-host, Chris Alexander.

(01:36):
We are coming to you live on Voice of the People USA TV and Radio Network on Rumble, X,YouTube and Facebook wherever you're watching.
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And comment in the chat.
We want to hear from you.
Well, joining us today is a woman who's been committed to the truth, who's long seen thefailures of the medical establishment and is not backed down in the face of persecution by

(02:03):
the medical machine.
Dr.
Mary Talley Bowden is an ENT and sleep medicine doctor in Houston, Texas and founder ofBreathe MD, a private clinic.
She hosts the Mary Talley Bowden show and continues to be a fierce advocate for truth,transparency and accountability when it comes to COVID and to the government's approach to
public health.

(02:24):
Welcome to the show, Dr.
Bowden.
Thanks for having me, Danielle.
Yeah, it's our pleasure.
Well, we love to start out the show with a scripture just to set the tone and help frameour conversation.
So today's scripture is 1 Corinthians chapter 8 verses 1, 1B through 3, and it says this,How easily we get puffed up over our opinions.

(02:50):
But love builds up the structure of our new life.
If anyone thinks of himself as a know-it-all, he still has a lot to learn.
But if a person passionately loves God, he will possess the knowledge of God.
And as I was reading that, it just struck me that passionately loving God is the key tohumility.
It positions us to pursue God for the answers that we're seeking.

(03:13):
It positions us for discernment because instead of reflexively believing what's beingreported or what's being taught or uh presented as fact.
we can set it before the Lord and Holy Spirit will guide us to truth.
And passionately loving God is the key to wisdom.
Proverbs 2, 3 through 6 says it this way, yes, cry out for comprehension and intercede forinsight.

(03:39):
For if you keep seeking it, like a man would seek for sterling silver, searching in hiddenplaces for cherished treasure, then you will discover the fear of the Lord and find the
true knowledge of God.
Wisdom is a gift from a generous God.
and every word he speaks is full of revelation and becomes a fountain of understandingwithin you.

(04:01):
So my challenge to us today is this, let's make a point to step back from the news orwhatever we're studying and spend some time in worship to recalibrate our thinking and our
emotions so we can hear what the Lord is saying and so he can lead us to the truth.
100 % agree, Danielle, and it's interesting that Dr.

(04:21):
Bowden, from what I've read about her, has not been puffed up about anything.
She was simply making the very reasonable request that there be an open and honest debateon the evidence regarding the efficacy of the COVID vaccine and for implementing practices
that in her own personal experience successfully treated

(04:46):
well over 6,000 patients with early treatment protocols.
That was the basis of her persecution that she received for doing things that work, thatare effective, and also for warning against uh the vaccine mandates.
mean, what a hero to people who seek the truth.

(05:09):
And Dr.
Bowden, at the start here, just want to tell you on behalf of the state of freedom and allour listeners,
Thank you for the courage of being an early pioneer for truth based upon what we've seenyour position and your practices have been and continue to be vindicated, ah which we are

(05:32):
so gratified to read and to see.
So thank you for taking a few minutes to be here with us today.
um What a treasure and a tremendous example that you've been.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
And yeah, I think the key to all this is the open mind and the humility.

(05:54):
And I didn't have a knee jerk response.
these vaccines are awful.
I'm not recommending them to anybody.
mean, everything that I have stood by was the things that I have witnessed firsthand.
And it's keeping an open mind and uh just, yeah.

(06:14):
Like the verse said, the humility brings you the truth uh and just not assuming that uhyou're right or that everybody else is wrong or everybody else is right.
And uh it's that open mind, which is key to scientific discovery.
Yeah.
And I have to mention here, excuse me, I have to mention here your 2024 book and give it aplug.

(06:40):
If you want to really get a clear understanding, comprehensive understanding of thepandemic and how it all went down and all the misinformation that was put out there, you
need to read Dr.
Bowden's book, Dangerous Misinformation, The Virus, The Treatments and the Lies.
I put that book up there.

(07:02):
right up there with uh RFK Jr's book on the real Anthony Fauci, knowing the truth andknowing really what you need to know.
And really that's all you need to read those two books.
So I strongly recommend getting that book and reading that book.
uh Let me ask you this, Dr.

(07:23):
Bowden, you treated thousands, just before we get at anything else, you treated thousandsof COVID patients with
Ivermectin and probably combined with other things.
What specifically was your treatment protocol and talk to us about the success rate thatyou had in that protocol.

(07:48):
Yeah, COVID was interesting.
I've never treated that many patients with the same disease in my career and I doubt Iever will.
I mean, all I saw was COVID patients seven days a week for several years.
I started with, well, initially I started with hydroxychloroquine and this was, know,President Trump came out and said it was wonderful.

(08:11):
Started using it.
personally,
contracted COVID very early on and it worked very well with what I had.
But then the Texas State Board of Pharmacy actually shut us down.
As physicians, we were not allowed, we were completely prohibited from prescribinghydroxychloroquine for COVID.
And so back then I was still sort of a rule follower and I put it on the back burner and Ididn't have a lot of demand at first for people coming to me for treatment.

(08:41):
I was doing a lot of testing and that's where I first became suspicious of everythinggoing on.
uh But uh once monoclonal antibodies came out, I started using those and they workedreally well and I could, had unlimited supply.
I could get as many doses as I wanted.
They showed up in my office the next day.
Things were great.

(09:02):
People were responding really well.
And then the government took over distribution of monoclonal antibodies and this was in...
I think it was August of 2021 and em it became harder and harder to get.
And so that's when I started using ivermectin and I was a little bit nervous about itbecause of all the negative press.
uh But what I found is using ivermectin and like you said, in combination for more severecases, I would use hydroxychloroquine.

(09:27):
I would use azithromycin and antibiotic and breathing treatments.
But I found that I was still able to keep people out of the hospital despite not havingaccess to monoclonal antibodies.
Uh, and you know, I think they withdrew monoclonal antibodies because they wantedeverybody to get the COVID shot, because they mandated the COVID shots right after they

(09:49):
took away monoclonal antibodies.
I think it was very orchestrated.
Yeah.
Did you know early on or how early on did you know that the COVID vaccine was not onlylargely ineffective, but potentially damaging?
Did you know that immediately or did
no, I had an open mind to it.

(10:11):
did not offer it to my patients.
I didn't, you early on I said, well, see, and I didn't get the shot.
I was nervous enough about it that I didn't get it.
And the reason I didn't, I looked at the study that they did and I didn't like how theyconducted the study.
It seemed a little bit flimsy.
So basically the people in the test group and the control group,

(10:34):
they only got tested for COVID if the practitioner thought it was necessary.
I thought they should have tested everybody no matter what, periodically just to see whatwas happening.
And that alone just sort of made me pause.
And plus the speed at which it was coming out and because I don't have any risk factorsfor severe disease.

(10:54):
But then because I was doing so much testing, I could tell the shots weren't working atall because I was tracking people by their vaccination status.
And I found that the unvaccinated, I mean, the vaccinated outnumbered the unvaccinated whowere testing positive and they were just as sick, if not sicker.
And then I can't remember when I first started seeing injuries, uh but I remember watchinga meeting and Dr.

(11:20):
Robert Malone was speaking and I remember that gave me a red flag, what he was saying,especially about the children.
I thought that was really...
uh
potentially dangerous to be giving children this.
We weren't seeing sick children.
I wasn't seeing very sick children in my clinic.
uh But yeah, unfortunately, four years later, I still see injured patients almost daily inmy office.

(11:47):
People that have been, you know, gaslit by other practitioners, very healthy, get the shotand then have a obvious side effect adverse reaction and which they can't get help for.
You know, it's funny you say that, not funny, but we had Dr.
Ralph Abraham on not too long ago, a few weeks back, Louisiana Surgeon General, and he'sstill practicing in, well, in private practice.

(12:14):
And he said that he's still seeing patients every week as well who are dealing withvaccine injuries and he's having some success treating them with, you know, some Dr.
McCullough's protocol and other things, but it's just so sad.
to see and it's so unnecessary, it all seems so unnecessary.

(12:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, mean, I'm sure Dr.
Abraham can relate.
I mean, I've never seen anything like this with any other product on the market, right?
I mean, we've seen other products come and go.
uh Like there's some antibiotics that I used to prescribe that are no longer on themarket.
But I've never seen the carnage from any kind of product like this, because normally theFDA sweeps in when there is a problem and they do the right thing and they pull it.

(13:06):
But this is sort of beyond uh anything that we've ever seen before.
It's really hard to believe.
Is it, so it's a fair characterization, Dr.
Bowden, to call it carnage?
yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's heartbreaking.
I, the last vaccine injured patient I saw, um, I guess it was two days ago.

(13:29):
She's my age.
She was a marathon runner, a teacher.
She got, um, two shots.
And after the second one developed some severe swelling under that arm.
And now she has a uncontrollable tremor in that arm that has completely disabled her.
She can't run anymore.
She's very fatigued all the time.

(13:51):
She can't run.
She can't teach.
You know, things like that.
Her life has been destroyed and nobody wants to help her or even acknowledge that orentertain the possibility that the COVID shot had anything to do with it.
When it's obvious that was the cause.
Yes, and the hospital with which you were affiliated, despite the fact that the COVIDvaccine was causing vastly disproportionate damage to people, despite the fact that the

(14:23):
protocols that you were using were proven in your own personal experience to be largelyvery, very effective, you were nonetheless publicly criticized, reprimanded, ah and
censured for
your actions for what you were doing by the Texas Houston Methodist Hospital.

(14:46):
Ultimately, that led to a defamation suit that you filed.
And from what I'm reading, your suit currently is on appeal.
Is that right?
Yeah, I sued them for defamation because they, you know, they proclaimed to the world thatI was dangerous, um, and that I was harmful to the community, which as a doctor is not

(15:06):
something you really want attached to your name.
and, uh, I lost the suit.
appealed.
Unfortunately, my, my attorney had a stroke in the middle of our saga and he made a, agrave error.
You know, I basically lost on a technicality.
uh And so I kind of just folded and I paid them $165,000 in legal fees.

(15:33):
But now they're taking me to court because they want interest on that money.
ah Even though we had an agreement, they cashed my check.
I was supposed to have a hearing yesterday, but of course it got postponed.
So still uh things are hanging in the air with that.
So the basis for the dismissal of your defamation suit, you know, the classic defense to adefamation suit is truth.

(15:59):
It can't be defamation if what they're saying is true, but it's becoming increasinglyobvious that we were lied to.
ah And it's becoming increasingly obvious that the information that they were putting outthere was false, both about you personally and about the efficacy.
of this vaccine.

(16:20):
So I'm surprised that your suit would have been dismissed.
It was a textbook per se case of defamation.
They were attacking you and defaming your reputation based upon lies.
And so it's interesting to me and unfortunate that that case would have been dismissed.

(16:40):
Do you mind talking a little bit about if you can what the technicality was that resultedin that dismissal?
Yeah, it was pretty bad.
I just didn't sign the affidavit.
em And that was sort of on the lawyer.
And then there was a chance to correct it and the lawyer didn't respond to thatopportunity.

(17:01):
And so the deadline passed and my new attorney said there's really nothing we can do.
so administrative, clerical.
hadn't actually signed your affidavit.
Right.
It's a $165,000 mistake, but whatever.
Wow.

(17:22):
I guess all you can do is just breathe through it and keep fighting.
don't know.
I'm so sorry about that.
That's so infuriating.
And the beast is never satisfied, right?
Like they're not okay with just taking it as a win, but they want to just keep taking andtaking.
It's amazing.
I've seen this with other cases that are similar to the one that um you're facing wherepeople who are clearly in the wrong aren't just happy that they have, like in the case of

(17:51):
another friend,
an unjust judge who's willing to stand and give a wrong uh judgment.
They want to go after that person for everything.
It's unbelievable the evil that's behind it and the insatiable nature behind it.
I don't know.
it's actually encouraging that they care so much about me.

(18:14):
And they actually, they came to me in this latest round where they're trying to extractmore money.
They're trying to extract $25,000 from me.
And they said they would settle if I signed a non-disparagement clause, you know,basically if I wouldn't speak ill of them.
uh But with my book coming out, that's just impossible.
So I hope everybody will buy the book because that's what they don't want.

(18:39):
And the book really goes into fine detail about all of this.
Yeah.
Well, they don't want, they obviously don't want the truth.
They don't want the truth to come out.
But, I Dr.
McCulloch, and so many others, not just you, uh, have, have, you know, demonstrated thatyou're on the right side of this and they're on the wrong side of this.

(19:02):
Uh, what, is your estimate as to the number of people, if you know who have been damagedby the COVID vaccine?
uh nationally and even worldwide.
Yeah, that's a hard one.
I think so many people are injured and don't know it, first of all.
uh I've seen patients in my office who said they didn't...

(19:26):
I had patients come to me because they saw me on Joe Rogan and said, oh that's what's...
I mean, they had no idea that it could have anything to do with the COVID shots.
So that's a big concern.
I also worry about the small children that got the shots and you know, the...
Myocarditis is very difficult to diagnose, uh especially if you can't tell somebody thatyou have chest pain.

(19:51):
So if you have a baby that got these shots, they could have subclinical myocarditis, whichcan leave a permanent scar on the heart and could lead to a lifelong increased risk of
sudden death.
So that, think there is a large number of people that uh don't realize they've beeninjured.

(20:12):
On the flip side, I also see a lot of people who are very anxious that they've beeninjured, who are well aware of the potential problems, but they don't have any symptoms.
So I think we should, I want to reassure those people that you're probably fine.
I do think there are a lot of lots that were just inert or not very, not as strong.
I I think of it as a big variation in lots.

(20:35):
So there's some lots that are more harmful than others.
And I would like to...
try to calm people down that if you're okay now, you're probably okay.
But yeah, I mean, I know that on the VAERS, they reported about 30, 32,000, I believedeaths.

(20:55):
And like, we know that that's an underestimation.
And the people argue about, you how much of an underestimation that is, but a conservativeestimate, it only accounts for 1 % of actual harms.
uh And that's really frightening.
Yeah.
But, but your position on it, Dr.
Bowden, is the position of increasingly number of physicians who are qualified to give anopinion is that the COVID shot, no matter what company or what, what version of it is,

(21:28):
prevents neither the contraction nor the transmission of the COVID virus.
Is that established in your view and in the view of, of, an increasing number of doctors?
Yes, and that was the first thing that I recognized with the shots as I was doing a lot oftesting.
I did not see it decreasing transmission.

(21:49):
I did not see it decreasing severity.
ah I believe that this shot is all risk and zero benefit.
I don't think anybody should be getting these shots.
And what I'm seeing clinically now with people that get COVID, it really is a cold.
And there are people that are higher risk for it.
traveling into the lungs, but that's true with any virus.

(22:11):
I treat COVID now like any virus.
I used to worry about my COVID patients.
I do not worry about them anymore.
And kind of continuing on this topic of the shots, uh a lot of us had very highexpectations for when uh Secretary Kennedy was appointed to HHS and really expected, I

(22:32):
mean, overnight changes.
We wanted to see things happen really quickly, especially when it comes to accountabilityfor COVID.
What's your take on what's been done?
And then I guess also what needs to be done for us to feel like we can actually move onfrom this?
Yeah, it's been disappointing, I will say that.
And, you I'm not in the inside at all.

(22:55):
you know, the people on the inside are saying, well, we just need patience.
He's up against a lot.
Yeah, those of us who sacrifice a lot, uh we basically sacrifice our careers to get thetruth out, have a hard time being patient on this, especially when we continue to see the
harms on a daily basis.

(23:16):
To me it feels like an emergency uh and worth taking the risk that there may be some, youknow career repercussions for doing the right thing I know there is a lot of pushback.
I mean there was a lawsuit that I just read about this morning where there are 19 statesand District of Columbia have sued HHS to keep them from making changes and that uh they

(23:44):
appeal they
lost, Kennedy lost that lawsuit, it's on appeal, he lost the appeal, which I just don'tunderstand how, why does he not have the authority to change HHS?
uh Seems very uh counterintuitive to me.
I'm sure there are things that I'm just not aware of, because I'm just a doctor and I haveno political experience at all.

(24:06):
But I can just say that the ethical thing to do for the sake of our population,
is just to pull these shots, put a moratorium on them, just say, hey, we're going to haltthem until we get more data, if that's what they really need.
But we have an abundance of data.
We have uh almost 4,000 peer-reviewed published studies showing the adverse reactions fromthese shots.

(24:30):
We have the DMED data.
We have disability and life insurance data.
We have autopsy data.
We have the data on sudden deaths in athletes.
uh We have the VAERS data.
We have more than enough data.
So I'm not sure what's taking so long.
I think we need more politicians to uh support this.

(24:54):
We know that the vast majority of politicians are not lining up to get another boosterbecause they have safety concerns, because they realize that these shots are all risk and
no benefit.
And if they aren't safe enough for the politicians, then how are they safe enough fortheir constituents?
They need to speak up.
They work for us and they need to do the right thing and support Kennedy.

(25:17):
And so why I'm talking to Danielle, sorry.
Sorry, Chris.
I'm thinking about a lot of people that are in their 30s and 40s that have just droppeddead out of nowhere.
And whenever the autopsy is done or if there's a severe heart attack or something, butmaybe they live, the diagnosis has been that there was an underlying condition, that there

(25:43):
was an undiagnosed uh heart defect or something like that.
Do you believe that?
I mean, to me, this points to the fact that the COVID shot has to be responsible for a lotof these sudden deaths and otherwise healthy 40, 50, 60 year olds.
Right, mean, yeah, I go by Dr.

(26:05):
Peter McCullough, uh well-regarded cardiologist, most published cardiologist in thecountry.
And if he's sounding the alarm bells, then I trust his stance uh because yeah, you'regonna find data on both sides of the aisle.
And that's sort of part of medicine.

(26:27):
everything, you can find a pro article and you can find a...
I mean, I came out of residency sort of putting my faith in my clinical experience morethan published articles because there's an incentive amongst people in academics to
publish and it's quantity over quality.
And so the published data that you see, the data that's out there is a starting point.

(26:54):
But what's more important is sort of the firsthand clinical experience.
And we're all seeing Batra Mokola, I just interviewed him uh yesterday and he was talkingabout all the people he's seen with heart problems after these shots and even young
people.
uh And so that weighs a lot on me more than uh data because data can be manipulated.

(27:19):
uh Data is often confounded by the people paying for the publication.
yes, very much so.
ah you know, there was a time, and this intrigues me, Dr.
Bowden, there was a time in this country when a doctor's clinical experience, directexperience with their patients was paramount and really was beyond reproach, beyond

(27:48):
question.
Doctor says, I'm using this, it is effective and it's working and that's the end of thematter.
But it seems as though institutional bureaucrats and the government and the pharmaceuticalcompanies have absolutely injected themselves in the freedom and the liberty of a doctor

(28:09):
to be a doctor, to do what's necessary.
And what do you think accounts for the fact that
So many doctors, including yourself, have been put in this, not only put in a straightjacket with respect to what you can do, but would be publicly reprimanded and criticized
even in the face of positive results that you achieved.

(28:31):
Why is that occurring?
Yeah, well, the pandemic brought it all out.
And it was probably, and to some degree it was occurring before the pandemic.
I I went outside of the system before the pandemic.
I call myself third party free because I don't contract with insurance companies,hospitals, or the government.
And I say, you the only people I work for are my patients.

(28:53):
Most doctors can't say that.
Most doctors are employees.
There's a third party whispering in their ear.
But the pandemic really brought that stranglehold out.
you know, the stranglehold that these third parties have on doctors, it really broughtthat to light.
And yeah, one of my biggest criticisms is we've got these people who are dictating careover Zoom calls, who have no firsthand experience treating COVID patients.

(29:20):
And you don't become an expert, you know, in terms of a clinician, if you only see acouple of cases here and there, but when you see thousands of patients with the same
disease over and over again, you very quickly become an expert.
It was very frustrating that no one would listen to us, the people who were out there,especially on the outpatient side, who we were preventing people from getting to the

(29:42):
hospital.
Because once they got to the hospital, was, you know, it was all dictated by protocols.
And we saw we saw how well that worked.
Yeah.
As you're talking about uh COVID bringing out the fact that um these kind of practiceswere, um know, doctors were being run roughshod and maybe didn't recognize it before

(30:09):
because they believe the CDC, they believe the FDA.
Do you think that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and uh
Treatments like that are also an indicator that there are other things that are beingwithheld from the public and that would be effective treatments um but are just not being

(30:30):
brought to light because, you know, it's not going to make big pharma millions.
Yeah, I mean, our system is geared towards innovation, coming out with the latest andgreatest blockbuster medication that's going to solve all our problems.
But there's no financial incentive to look at what we already have and uh use things in anoff-label fashion and study those uh because there's just no financial incentive to do

(30:59):
that.
Yeah, it's about so much of this seems always to come down to the money and it seems tocome down to what RFK Jr.
calls regulatory capture.
And I've always wondered how public health agencies can be expected to base theirrecommendations on objective peer reviewed scientific data when they are receiving

(31:27):
the kind of money that they are receiving from the very manufacturers that have afinancial interest in promoting and marketing these vaccines and these products.
It just seems like an intractable conflict of interest.
Well, and plus the pharmacies, the pediatricians, they have an extra incentive to givemore vaccines.

(31:51):
uh I talked to a pharmacist at Walgreens.
She said there was a competition amongst all the different branches to see who could giveout the most vaccines.
And there was a financial reward associated with that.
uh know, their pediatricians, uh they get bonuses, you know, depending on what percentageof their practice.

(32:12):
get the vaccinations.
And I've been reading Erin Seary's new book, and I can't remember the name of it, but uhit's just shocking.
I didn't know that the hepatitis B vaccine had only been studied for five days in 147patients before it was brought to market.
It makes me very angry.

(32:32):
I I was not educated on that in medical school.
I gave all my kids those shots.
uh
It just, it's unbelievable what they have gotten away with.
Yeah, and it's interesting about the hepatitis B vaccine, Dr.
Bowden, as you pointed out uh in something that I read about you, even though the trialstudy was very cursory, uh not very thorough or complete, they still only recommended the

(33:02):
hepatitis B vaccine uh for adults who were either health care workers or had had sexualcontact or needles and that sort of thing.
and did not recommend it for infants unless the mother had hepatitis B.
Okay.
And that was the recommendation.
And then once the manufacturing companies and the pharmaceutical companies receivedstatutory immunity for any civil liability associated with damage to children who were

(33:32):
vaccinated, at that point, the CDC recommended it universally for infants.
Is that a fair characterization?
Exactly, exactly.
It's really perverse.
Yeah.
And today, and I think it's interesting that you're coming on today.
I think it's fitting that you're coming on today because the advisory committee for, Ithink, immunization protocols uh at the CDC is meeting today.

(33:58):
I think you were trying to look at that before the show started.
ostensibly, they're going to be discussing the hepatitis B vaccine, uh including whetheror not they should continue to recommend this universally for infants.
What do you expect?
to come out of this today.

(34:19):
I don't know, the buzz seems to be, I get this email from MedPage today, where it's sortof the other side, how they're thinking and they're panicked.
They're very worried that they're gonna take some action.
So that gives me hope.
That makes me think, well, maybe there really is a shot that, uh to me it's a litmus test.

(34:41):
What happens on this hepatitis B?
Well, and they're supposed to be discussing the COVID shot as well.
I just don't know the details, but uh both hepatitis B, the COVID shot litmus test.
If they take action, it shows that yes, things are going in the direction they need to go.
And I will maybe calm down a little bit and relax.

(35:04):
But if it doesn't go the right way, it's a really bad sign.
Is there any reason in your professional experience why an infant should be given ahepatitis B vaccine if they have a healthy mother and they're otherwise healthy?
Why would you even think about giving a hepatitis B vaccine to an infant in thatcircumstance?

(35:31):
you wouldn't and it makes me very mad that I never questioned that before and that I gavemy four children those shots without, which is blindly following that recommendation.
It really enrages me.
But yes, there's no reason for that.
It's just extraordinary.

(35:51):
And what about damage to infants from the hepatitis B vaccine?
Well, we don't know because the vast majority of kids get that shot.
And so we don't have a control group, but it may be one of the many reasons why kids arejust so sick these days.
uh We're really not uh improving our longevity.

(36:16):
We're not increasing our lifespan despite all these shots.
But at a uh minimum, it's completely unnecessary.
Just like in your view, the COVID vaccine for a healthy infant is completely unnecessary.
The COVID vaccine is completely unnecessary for everybody, full stop, but especially forchildren.

(36:42):
Even even that.
So just to be clear on this, there are some doctors who are skeptical of the COVID vaccinewho do say that it may be appropriate in a situation where you have an adult with other
comorbidities and it may be appropriate in that circumstance.
But you're saying it's not appropriate even then.

(37:04):
No, I think it's malpractice to give anybody a COVID shot.
I think if your doctor suggests it, perhaps you should report them to the medical board.
I think it is malpractice.
Yeah.
My doctor told me that I was part of the problem if I didn't take it.
Anyway, I left.

(37:24):
I left his office.
Anyway, what do you think it will take to cause a sea change in the medical field wheredoctors and practitioners wake up and come to terms with the fact that the CDC and the FDA
have not been operating in good faith?
They've not been operating in the best interest of the people.
Big Pharma's not really bringing solutions.

(37:46):
anymore or they're not to the extent that the TV would tell us they're bringing solutions.
I know you're, I believe you're friends with Dr.
Jack Cruz.
talks about um decentralized medicine.
Is that something that we can, do you have a vision for that or an idea of what it wouldtake to get there?

(38:07):
It's such a well, you know, unfortunately it starts in medical school indoctrination ofdoctors And that's going to be a hard problem to fix um And then we've got the media
against us as well ah And but I do think you know the best bet for people is fine doctorsoutside the system

(38:30):
And the good news is we have, you patients have so much more access to information thanthey did 20 years ago.
20 years ago, we didn't have the internet and doctors were the final authority oneverything.
But now patients can really do their own research and that frustrates a lot of doctors.
uh And it can, I can say it can be frustrating when, know, because doctors do when you seethings over and over again, you have a perspective that the internet can't give you.

(38:57):
uh But.
uh That, you know, it's, it might be every man for himself at this point until we can getsome real change.
Yeah.
Are the early treatment protocols readily accessible now in Texas?
That's the first part of the question.

(39:19):
And the second part is, are doctors still suffering any sort of retaliatory action orcensure for prescribing the early treatment protocols?
They just, uh well, it hasn't been signed into law yet, but the legislature just passed abill that makes uh ivermectin over the counter in Texas.

(39:43):
And we anticipate the governor Abbott will sign that, but it's not definite.
uh I know that, and maybe you can tell us how it's going in Louisiana.
I know that in Arkansas, even though it's over the counter, most, the pharmacies aren't uhgiving it to patients, which like,
So it's sort of, uh it's in limbo.

(40:03):
uh And I know in Tennessee, I've heard that you really have to get, are only a fewpharmacies that are really doing this, giving patients ivermectin.
I really want the FDA to just make it over the counter.
It's very safe.
It's safer than Tylenol.
It's safer than Advil.
uh And so many people are just going to the feed store to get their ivermectin or orderingit from overseas or Mexico.

(40:29):
And this is America, we should not have to go to the feed store to get our medications andwe shouldn't have to smuggle them in from another country.
ah So I really am pushing for the FDA to do something.
The FDA branded it as horse dewarmer and I actually sued them over that and we won.
They had to take down the tweet, they had to remove the misinformation from their website.

(40:55):
but they need to help rebrand ivermectin.
They need to make a public statement about the safety, that it's not solely for horses,it's very safe in humans, and then they need to make it over the counter.
And then in terms of persecution, uh the Texas Medical Board claims that all the doctorsthat they went after during COVID had nothing to do with ivermectin, including myself.

(41:21):
But when they deposed me, they used the word ivermectin 86 times.
I counted it was an eight hour deposition.
and yeah, the complaint itself had ivermectin in there.
And I do not think any of my troubles would have come for me prescribing amoxicillin.
Uh, I think they are very, uh, they're backing off, you know, because I, I have made sucha, an uproar about this.

(41:46):
But they're still after me.
My case is still ongoing just because I refuse to back down and You my case stems around apatient who wanted ivermectin and couldn't get it so it's
So everything here comes down to, it's all reducible to the fact that proven effectiveearly protocols for the effective treatment of COVID by doctors across the country,

(42:15):
including you with six or seven thousand, thousands of patients have been effective.
And that undermines the agenda of the pharmaceutical industry, the medical industrialcomplex.
and probably politicians, quite frankly, who are receiving a tremendous amount of moneyfrom the pharmaceutical companies.

(42:38):
So the truth is David on our side and the Goliath are the lies that they want to continueto perpetuate in order to suffocate the truth.
That's the way that I see this.
And that's why I see this as so utterly reprehensible.
I think what you have been through

(42:59):
for speaking the truth, it's not only heroic, but it is so reprehensible that the truthand your acting in the best interest of your patients would be met with such institutional
hostility.
And that, to me, that is what begs for justice here.
That is what begs for justice.

(43:23):
Well, I'm not backing down.
I'm getting ready to file two more lawsuits.
I'm getting ready to sue the Federation of State Medical Boards.
So we believe they plan sort of an orchestrated attack on all the doctors that were usinguh ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.
And they dictated to medical boards across the country to go after us.

(43:46):
And I also plan on suing the Texas Medical Board.
Robert Barnes is representing me in that.
And you know, I think we're actually up against forces greater than Goliath.
I think it's really ah It's just it's I have learned so much about what I'm up against emBut I'm not I'm not backing down and all it does is just make me angrier and want to fight

(44:10):
harder
Well, you're the slingshot Mary, you're the slingshot Mary that's going to split the headof Goliath wide open.
And you already have started to do that.
And I can't overestimate the reach that you've had in your social media posts everywhere.

(44:33):
You have educated so many people and I will guarantee you that you have
probably saved a lot of lives by preventing people who would otherwise have gotten some ofthese dangerous vaccines, including the COVID vaccine, who have not gotten it.
And so I think that you are owed a profound debt of gratitude from those people, becauseif it weren't for people like you and Dr.

(45:00):
McCullough and others, they would still be digesting this lie that we're being told.
It's true.
Well, you know, I was kicked off Twitter for five months and I owe a debt of gratitude toElon Musk.
He restored my account on Christmas day, which was exciting.
And then a slew of other people as well.

(45:21):
ah But yeah, we, it's interesting because very few people are actually getting these COVIDshots, but you wouldn't think that based on how the media covers the story.
uh But in a CDC actually used to post this data, but they mysteriously took that datadown.
I think it's because the numbers don't support their position.

(45:43):
But the last time that they had the data up, only 15 % of Americans were getting the COVIDshot, the booster, 12 % of children.
And so the general public has caught on.
The politicians need to realize that.
ah And we're still facing censorship.
I mean, I got kicked off TikTok a couple of weeks ago.

(46:05):
I got back on there for about a month and it did not last long.
I'm always on thin ice with YouTube.
So we still have a lot of work to do to get the message out.
I'm worried about our surgeon general, Casey Means.
If you look into her history on social media, as she has never spoken out against theCOVID shots.

(46:26):
I've confronted her brother with this repeatedly and he will not go on record to say theCOVID shots are dangerous.
uh And the Surgeon General is the biggest, uh has the biggest microphone for public healthin our country.
So that concerns me, we just have to keep getting the message out.
Yeah, we do.

(46:47):
Well, I am just so grateful for um your suits against the medical boards because theseinstitutions are some of the most corrupt, handcuffing institutions on the planet right
now.
The medical boards, the legal boards, it's unbelievable.
You would think that these are actual professional organizations that have the bestinterests of the target audience in mind, whether it's patients or whether it's clients.

(47:14):
and serving the doctors, serving the interests of the attorneys.
But we've seen the exact opposite of that.
We've seen those institutions weaponized against the people who are speaking the truth,against people who have uh a unique point of view.
And I mean, they have become the center for groupthink.

(47:36):
Well, I was going to do a shout out to your governor because from what I understand isduring the heat of the pandemic when doctors were really, like myself, were really under
scrutiny in Louisiana, he sent a letter to the medical board saying, you better not goafter any of the doctors for using ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.

(47:59):
If you do, you will not be allowed to use any of my lawyers.
So he put a stop to it.
That did not happen in Texas.
In Texas, uh I appealed to the attorney general.
I appealed to Ken Paxton.
I appealed to Governor Abbott and was met with silence.
They are well aware of what's going on.
Governor Abbott appoints the members of the Texas Medical Board.

(48:21):
We need new leadership.
There is somebody running for governor in Texas.
uh Pete Chambers, Doc Pete Chambers, former Green Beret.
uh He would be amazing.
And I do believe that a lot of our
politics in Texas are dictated by healthcare.
People don't realize it dominates our economy.

(48:44):
And I think healthcare is turning Texas blue.
And there's a reason that mandates started in Houston, Texas.
I crossed the first hospital in the country to mandate the COVID shots.
And they did that on April 1st, 2021.
They did it five months before Biden.
And I think it started in Texas for a reason.

(49:05):
I believe they knew if they could get away with mandates in Texas, they could get awaywith them anywhere.
I think it was quite purposeful and a reflection of what's going on in our state.
Yeah.
Are there any current, are, are, are, now there, there, there are no vaccine, COVIDvaccine mandates currently in Texas now, correct?

(49:26):
Well, there is a technicality.
So employers cannot mandate it, but we see nursing students, medical students, they'regetting around the law by, and I'm still writing exemptions for people for the COVID shots
in Texas.
Not as many, but it's still going on, especially in heart transplants.

(49:47):
A friend of mine just had to write an exemption for somebody who needed a hearttransplant.
They were requiring him to get the COVID shot.
ah So it's not 100 % uh you know, it's there's a law there, but they've of course foundways around it.
Wow.
And you mentioned the means as do you think, do you think they're behind at all theappointment of Susan Monterrez whenever she was appointed to CDC, the shortest lived Trump

(50:15):
appointee in terms of staying power?
I have been trying to figure that out because she clearly was not the right fit based onthat hearing yesterday.
I mean, she was not like minded with Kennedy at all.
Right.
So how did she get in that spot?
And Kennedy said he handpicked her, but was he just playing along and being a good sportor was he fooled or I don't know.

(50:38):
I mean, the rumor, you know, the one insider that I know thinks it was Susie Wiles thatpushed her through.
ah Or maybe, yeah, I don't know.
It really confuses me.
Yeah.
What is, Dr.
Bowden, what is the current size of your practice?

(50:59):
I'm asking because one of the allegations in your suit is that all of this has cost youpatience.
ah So what is the current size of your practice and how has it been diminished because ofeverything that you've been through here?
It's more that it's worn me out uh in my, uh you know, I have four kids.

(51:24):
I limit my practice to, so that I do, I wanna be the mom first and then doctor second.
And you know, it's steady, it's fine.
And my mix of patients has changed.
I see, you know, ideally I'd like to go back to being a full-time ear, nose and throatdoctor.

(51:44):
uh
and sleep medicine specialist, but I see a lot of people who are injured from the vaccinesand uh writing exemptions for vaccines, things that I just never thought I'd do in my
practice.
It's changed my practice.
It's worn me out so that I'm less motivated to see as many patients.

(52:05):
uh But right now it's steady.
It's fine.
Yeah, the fact that you're here today talking so articulately about this and stillstanding for the truth is certainly a testament to your perseverance and your spirit.
There's no question about that because many people would have been, many people would havebeen, would have collapsed and been utterly destroyed by what you've been through.

(52:28):
So that is a testament to your character.
Let me ask you this last question.
We have our Senator from here is Senator Bill Cassidy.
During the RFK Jr.
confirmation process, he appears to have extracted significant concessions from RFK Jr.
in exchange for Cassidy voting to confirm RFK Jr.

(52:52):
uh If you know, uh to what extent is RFK Jr.
still uh hamstrung by Senator Cassidy, and what effect do you feel like Senator Cassidyhas had on Maha generally?
Yeah, I think the power is shifting in favor of Kennedy.
That's my sense.

(53:13):
I mean, like I said, it's just an outsider's view.
I don't have any inside information on this at all.
But I don't know.
I think the fact that Monares got fired uh is a signal that Kennedy is gaining strength.
I think that the public outcry against Cassidy is growing.

(53:34):
I was very encouraged to see Governor Landry and the Surgeon General, uh Dr.
Abraham call out Cassidy last week on X.
I think we need to prop them up and remind everybody that he's just a senator.
He doesn't call all the shots.
oh And there are other people in the state of Louisiana who are very supportive ofKennedy.

(54:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
more here supportive of Kennedy than are supportive of Cassidy.
And that I know on statistical evidence and polling, which is a very good thing.
And look, ah I think I speak for, I know I speak for citizens across the state who arehopeful and determined that Bill Cassidy is serving his last term in the U.S.

(54:23):
Senate because in our view, he has done extraordinary damage to the truth.
and extraordinary damage to public health.
And I think it's because of, again, he is being financially enriched.
He's one of the senators who's receiving probably the most, but he's certainly among thetop three or four recipients of pharmaceutical money.

(54:45):
It is staggering the amount of money that he receives from that industry.
that is not surprising.
And he also strikes me as very close-minded and not lacking humility and lacking curiosityand not looking out for his constituents.

(55:07):
Well said.
Well, it is a pleasure and inspiration to have you with us here today.
Keep up your good work.
You're certainly going to be in our thoughts and prayers.
And just know before you go that there are literally millions across the country who areinspired and educated by your efforts.

(55:27):
Despite the setbacks you faced, uh you are doing tremendous good.
And I hope that you know that and absorb that because it is a fact.
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate it.
And I hope we can have you back on to celebrate some good news on lawsuits, to celebratesome good news on the Maha agenda and the removal of some of these vaccines, if not all

(55:54):
the vaccines from the schedule for infants, that would be so amazing.
So we'll stay in touch with you, Dr.
Boden.
Can I ask you one last thing?
We absolutely will.
there any, cause we asked a couple of other docs who would come on the show.
I think Dr.
Abraham, we asked, is there any vaccine currently that you would recommend beingadministered routinely?

(56:18):
Yeah, I just have lost faith in all of them at this point.
oh I just don't think we have enough data.
Personally, I would be reluctant to give any of my children any of the shots at this pointuntil we really get better data.
Yeah, my wife goes through, my wife uh suffers from horrible guilt despite the fact thatshe couldn't have known at the time, but she suffers from horrible guilt about the fact

(56:47):
that we had our kids vaccinated, uh not the COVID shot by God's grace, but other vaccines.
And my wife attributes that to some of the health issues that they've had over the years.
uh anyway, thank you for your service to all of us.
Well, thanks for having me.

(57:08):
Have a great one, Dr.
Bowden.
God bless.
Thank you.
Chris, you're right, she's such an inspiration.
Yeah, I'm just always inspired by people who have the courage uh and the stamina to standup to institutional authority when that authority is provably wrong in the recommendations

(57:37):
and the protocols that they're recommending that have caused and will continue to causesuch damage.
I think it's criminal.
Danielle, I think it is criminal that public health agencies and pharmaceuticalmanufacturers, pharmaceutical companies are not looking objectively at evidence.

(58:01):
They're not looking at cause and effect.
They are looking at money.
They are looking at power.
And that is it.
And that is a sad, sad state of affairs.
I am thankful.
I remain thankful that RFK
is in the position that he is in.
I think he's doing uh largely uh good work and I certainly hope he continues.

(58:25):
We could be in a far, far worse position as you and I both know.
Yeah, and you you brought up what he talked about regulatory capture.
But as we look at this, know, Dr.
Bowden is like a voice crying out in the wilderness.
We are like a voice crying out in the wilderness.
It feels like sometimes, you know, and we've been at this now for almost three years.

(58:46):
A lot of people have been at it for five years.
I mean, I guess we've been about the truth for that long.
But we haven't necessarily had the podcast for that long.
But you think about what it what
is all captured by this evil, I don't even know what to say, this evil entity that hassilenced the voices of people speaking the truth, that has gone after them mercilessly

(59:15):
with lawsuits, with attacks on their professional credentials, with attacks on theirfamily and their well-being.
It's absolutely staggering to know and I think it's
to see that RFK Jr.
has been able to fire some people, to see that a lot of uh federal bureaucrats have beenfired.

(59:39):
It feels like that's just kind of a first swipe, right?
I feel like there's so much more cutting that needs to happen.
ah Because how can you know what you're up against?
You think about President Trump and someone like Secretary Kennedy being up against thismassive, massive beast that they
You know, they're ostensibly in charge of the beast, but look at how the beast is ragingagainst them.

(01:00:02):
Every power that they have is being questioned and is being shut down by rogue judges.
Yes.
And it's so interesting to me that the things that Joe Biden did and the things thatBarack Obama did, which clearly fall within the scope of constitutionally delegated
executive authority, ah were never questioned when they did things.

(01:00:27):
But President Trump is being challenged judicially and politically for every decision thathe makes.
So is RFK Jr.
decisions that we believe are based in the best interest of the American people.
can't help but appreciate the hypocrisy and the gross double standard of that, ah youknow, that they are being hamstrung.

(01:00:50):
And don't underestimate the number of people who are right around them who probably do noteven have their best interests at heart and undermine them every opportunity they can.
The work they're doing is gargantuan.
But as I said, I do believe ultimately we're going to prevail.

(01:01:10):
And I think that most Americans at this point recognize the dangers of potential dangersof vaccines generally, but certainly the dangers of the COVID vaccine and the absolute
insanity, the insanity of recommending a hepatitis B vaccine.

(01:01:32):
for a healthy infant whose mother does not have hepatitis B.
That to me is extraordinarily bizarre.
And that to me is just powerful evidence that the motives of these institutions are notsincere.
They're not pure.

(01:01:53):
They don't have the best interests of our infants and of our children at heart.
and they are all about self-enrichment and all about money.
And the American people, think, are increasingly waking up to that reality.
Yeah, I think they are.
think that I think the people are waking up and I just I just hope that we see a goodoutcome today.

(01:02:15):
That'll be an encouragement that we're gaining some momentum.
This ACIP hearing the what did we just say that it stands for?
Sorry, it's a
Committee on Immunization Protocol or Immunization Practices, ACIP.
something like that and our own Dr.
Evelyn Griffin was just appointed to that.

(01:02:35):
Someone who loves the Lord, someone who loves truth.
So we have to be encouraged that ah we know and I believe we were just saying before theshow that Dr.
Robert Malone had previously been appointed to that committee.
just um I'm very prayerful that we'll see some good outcomes and start feeling like we'rehaving some wins on this front because you know, uh

(01:03:00):
Babies are being born every day and these unnecessary, not only unnecessary, but noharmful things are being done to infants every single day.
And I think about some of my own uh family members and friends who just, you know, theyare in the healthcare industry.

(01:03:22):
So they trust, they just trust that what they've learned is true and that what we say onthe outside, people who are not in the
healthcare industry and even people who are in the healthcare industry that question.
They think that we are nuts.
They think that we are telling them to do something that's going to hurt their child.

(01:03:43):
And that's still a cause of great contention within families.
Absolutely.
mean, it's caused, you know, fractions, it's caused divisions within families, it's causedfamilies to become alienated from one another.
And, know, Danielle, I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there who probably deepdown in their hearts do have regrets about having taken the COVID shot and given it to

(01:04:07):
their kids.
But it's very, very difficult uh to admit when you're invested in something and yourealize that you've been completely bamboozled.
Sometimes it's difficult.
to admit that.
And sometimes it's difficult to hear the truth, you know, when you've been invested in anarrative uh for that long.

(01:04:27):
But we have to tell the truth.
We're going to continue to tell the truth right here on the state of freedom.
And we're going to continue to expand that truth across the state of Louisiana.
Yeah, we are.
And if you are listening for the first time, please go to freedomstate.us, visit us andyou can check out previous episodes there.

(01:04:48):
You can see a little bit more of what we're about and you can support us if this is, uh ifthis aligns with you.
If you are resonating with what you've heard here today, we'd love for you to support thestate of freedom.
Yeah.
And advertise with us, whatever it is that you have, Danielle and I will look at it.
If we believe in the product or we believe in your vision and what your goals andobjectives are, we will absolutely advertise and promote uh that right here on the state

(01:05:17):
of freedom.
The number one conservative political podcast in the state of Louisiana that uniquelydelivers the truth.
Uncensored.
uh, and unapologetically, and I'm very proud to be associated with the state of freedomfor that reason.
So the more you support us, the more you donate to us, the more you subscribe and share,uh, the broader our voice will become in Louisiana and beyond.

(01:05:42):
Because I can tell you, Danielle, there are a lot of people who don't live in Louisianawho listen to the state of freedom and we're very thankful for them as well.
But I am, you know, but I'm so thankful to be with you here today, Danielle and
ah This, to me, was a show that was so very important to have today.

(01:06:03):
absolutely.
And just a quick announcement.
On Tuesday, we'll be back here, 10 a.m.
Central, and we will be speaking with Walter Charlton, who is an attorney that's goingafter ActBlue, I believe, and a big RICO case.
So that is going to be fascinating, very enlightening, and I am really looking forward tothat.

(01:06:26):
And like you said, Chris, Dr.
Bowden, absolutely extraordinary.
Her message um should just cut straight to the heart of people.
I mean, people have to understand that a lot of uh people like her have stood up againstall odds, have stood up against a beast and they deserve to be honored.

(01:06:48):
They deserve our respect and they deserve to win their lawsuits.
A lot of money.
I hope they win a lot of money.
She's an American patriot in this sphere, just like Tina Peters is an American patriot inthe sphere of election security.
I put them on the same level.
So thankful to have people like that out there, and we're going to continue to promotethem uh every opportunity we get.

(01:07:13):
So uh God bless you, Danielle, and thank you for another opportunity to come in andadvance the truth on the state of freedom.
Thanks, Chris.
God bless you.

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#334 Can We Rebuild Trust in Healthcare? w/ Mary Talley Bowden

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