April 1, 2025 • 31 mins
Randy Crabtree concludes his conversation on community with Nancy McClelland, The Dancing Accountant, on Episode 205 of The Unique CPA. They focus particularly on the vital role bookkeepers play in the accounting world, and the importance of collaboration between them and tax professionals. This, along with creating effective systems, are keys to building a culture of shared resources, proper communication, and continuous learning—essentially, forming stronger bonds within the community will lead to better results for service provider and client alike. Nancy highlights practical steps to educate small business owners, bookkeepers, and tax pros to foster better working relationships, underscoring the need to transform accounting’s landscape through enhanced cooperation and training.
Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUniqueCPA.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
Today, Randy concludes his conversationabout community building with The Dancing Accountant, Nancy McClelland.
They focus on collaboration betweenbookkeepers and tax professionals, the Ask A CPA community, and more.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
(00:23):
My point is that without creatingsystems and expectations and shared resources, like the things that
actually make collaboration possible,it doesn't matter where you're sitting.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're in the same office.
Everyone needs this.
The first step really isn't like inunderstanding why you should even bother.
(00:45):
Intentionality, haveintentionality moving the desk.
Absolutely.
That was not really intentionality.
And this is culture, really.
I mean, it's creating a culture wherewe're sharing ideas together and where
we're communicating and where we'regetting to know the people, as you'd said.
Yeah.
It goes back to everythingthat we were talking about.
Yep.
Yeah, I mean it's, I guess it'snot a surprise when you look at.
(01:07):
How I came into this industry in thefirst place and how I grew my firm and then like how afca CPA came out of this.
It again, if I look backwards,the path is quite obvious.
I just couldn't see it because itgrew very organically Right into this.
Yeah.
But it is, it's aboutpersonal relationships.
I mean, there are lots of reasonsto collaborate and when I gave my talk at Financial Sense.
(01:33):
Workflow Con, I went through the listof, you know, your common client's best interests are the end goal.
It's easier for everyone ifwe set clear expectations and execute them before busy season.
Successful collaborationleads to future work with.
The good ones, right?
The responsible partners, theones that we want to work with.
(01:54):
Mm-hmm.
Not the ones who don't care and but myrunner up to go along with what you're just saying, which is that work is
just more enjoyable when we rememberthat the other person is human too.
Yeah.
That, that.
You're working with humans.
(02:16):
Humans and have fun.
All right?
Yes.
Okay.
Exactly.
Alright, I got it.
I was gonna say good story.
I don't know.
They chair the desk moving story.
It was a good story, but it's alearning story and so, but we just said
intentionality, getting to know the peoplethat you work with and vulnerability.
All these things I think thatyou've said are so important.
(02:38):
But how do we start toput this in practice then?
I mean, you, we are asco, CPA, so you'retalking about the bookkeepers, but now
we need to also get the CPAs or the EAs,the tax advisors to be, you know Yeah.
Community, uh, collaboration.
And by the way, this is verybridging the gap of you, because
when people ask me what I love somuch about bridging the gap, I say.
(03:00):
You're getting both theoryand practice at the same time.
Like, why should we do these things?
Why are they better for us?
And then how do we do them?
Like Nayo's presentation on howto take a vacation during tax season, like, you know, which
yeah.
Actually happened this year,which was just amazing.
Nice.
It was only two days, but it was,they were two beautiful days.
So I would argue that we need totake a three-pronged approach.
(03:25):
Yep.
We, and I am, I'm tryingto do this in my own life.
It's a big burden and so Iwould say to you and to your listeners, I need your help.
I'm there.
Tell me what you need.
You're so
supportive.
I love it.
You're so nice and fun, Randy.
Um, so first off, we need to showsmall business owners the need, right?
(03:46):
We need to show small business ownersthat they have the authority to set the culture and the expectations
that the tax pro and the bookkeeperare gonna function as a team.
I did a podcast with Hannah Smolinskifrom Clara, CFO on this, I did a podcast with Jaime Staley on this.
I think that we need more clientfacing education because if they really own this relationship and if
(04:11):
they recognize that it's gonna fallinto their lap, at the end of the day, if this relationship goes sour or I.
Never fully is realized like it.
It affects how accurate their return is.
It affects the insight that theycan have into their numbers and what story those numbers tell.
And the advisory, like bookkeepers matter.
(04:33):
They really matter.
I. The data that is going into thebooks, how it is categorized, the technology that's being used to sync
the various pieces of software thatthe client is using in their business.
Like the bookkeepers have to be reallygood at all of this stuff and make sure that it is showing up in a way that
(04:55):
simultaneously allows the tax pro to trustthose numbers and just plug them into.
A return, but also to provide theadvisory together to provide the advisory services that these small
business owners need in order to stayvibrant and give back to their own
communities and make the difference thatwe wanna see them making in the world.
(05:18):
Right?
The bookkeepers matterin this relationship.
They're essential, but the smallbusiness owner needs to know that.
Secondly.
Educate the bookkeepers.
Right?
That's what we're doing.
And ask a CPA.
Mm-hmm.
It's what Andrea McDonald andMegan Guness Tarno are working on in their small group cohorts.
Right.
Like, we need to educate the bookkeepers.
(05:39):
I do hear the complaint, and this wassomething that at #TaxTwitter Retreat folks came up to talk to me about
afterward, that there are some bookkeepersout there who don't wanna learn.
This is true.
Let's not focus on them though.
They're in the minority.
Mm-hmm.
Over time, they'll learn thatgetting good clients depends on them wanting to learn to do better.
(06:03):
The good ones, whether you're a tax proor you're a bookkeeper, the good ones want to work with the other good ones, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And this is how we get there, right?
We gotta educate the bookkeepers.
Let's not focus on the ones who don'twanna learn, because that would be like the bookkeeper is focusing on all
the CPAs who don't wanna treat themwith respect, or all the CPAs who.
Literally cannot be bothered topick up the phone or respond to an email or anything like that.
(06:27):
I had somebody in Ask a CPA last weekwho said that they have not been able to get any information whatsoever to or
from, like there's zero communicationwith the tax repairer and they got in touch with the small business owner
about it, and the small businessowners said that they could fax.
The cpa.
That was the best way to get in touch.
I was like, really?
(06:47):
Are we kidding?
And so over time when I'm teachingthe bookkeepers, they bookkeepers will fixate on the bad tax pros, right?
The non-communicative ones or the oneswho are clearly not doing a good job.
The tax pros will fixate on thebookkeepers that don't wanna learn or they feel like can't be taught right?
But let's set those aside becauseif we're all doing our jobs well.
(07:11):
Then what I teach in my tax readybookkeeping course is, you know, you find yourself a new dance partner.
Ooh, dance.
Yeah, I'm bringing it back to the dance.
It's like Fred Astaireand Ginger Rogers, right?
Like one of them calling the shots,creating the choreographies, getting
top billing, and the other one isdancing backwards and in high heels.
(07:35):
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So it, it needs to be more collaborative,and I do think it's important that bookkeepers, they learn what they need
to learn from a technical side, and thatmakes them feel more confident in actually
having agency to say to the client, wehad a big win last week on our Ask A CPA.
(07:57):
We have twice monthly q and As plus lotsof guest folks, you know, coming to speak and bonus panels and things like that.
It's, oh gosh, Randy, I would
love to have
you
come talk with them.
That
would be incredible.
Did you just volunteer?
I did.
Alright.
It's not a paying gig dude, so
that's alright.
So
(08:20):
monthly q. So everybody, they submittheir questions in our circle community, and then I answer them in circle.
And then I pick the ones that I feel are,you know, most illustrative for the group.
And we do those.
And actually, one of the things that'sso wonderful about it is that not only do we record every one of these
sessions, but we actually, you know,my husband's a software developer and he goes through and he parses each
(08:43):
of the questions separately and heposts them with the recording with a.
Timestamp.
That's a hyperlink tothat question and circle.
And our searchable, our database,they're both searchable.
And so let's say you have a questionabout how benefits should show up on a W2.
You know, you can type inbenefits and you will find.
The answer in circle, you willfind the answer in the recording.
(09:06):
You can click on that hyperlinkand you can just watch that part.
You don't have to attend everysingle one of these live.
You don't have to watchthe entire recording.
It's one of the things that's veryspecial about the community is that
you really, I. Can focus on the partsthat you want to learn the most.
And then there are people whocome to every single q and a just because they always learn something.
So last week I had had aone-on-one because another thing
(09:29):
with ASCA CPA is they get a 25%discount on one-on-one sessions.
And so I had had a one-on-one session withthis person who was having trouble with a potential client, had come and said.
I don't feel really good about my books.
I'm not so sure about my tax return.
I want this to be done right.
I don't know how to tell ifit's being done right or not.
(09:51):
And there were a lot of things thatthis bookkeeper saw that were not
good in both the books and on the taxreturn, but she didn't trust herself.
'cause she was like, well,what do I know about taxes?
I'm just a bookkeeper.
Mm-hmm.
I try to teach everybodyto get rid of that word.
Just yes.
I put it in air quotes becausethere's no such thing as.
Just a bookkeeper.
(10:11):
Bookkeepers are essential.
They matter.
They count,
right?
Ooh, bookkeepers count.
I love
that bookkeepers count.
I'm making a sticker.
Bookkeepers count.
Ask a CPA.
I like it.
Yeah, so, so we had a one-on-onetogether and we went through the tax
return, we went through the books andI was like, well, here's your issue.
And I pointed out all of these thingsthat were just blatantly and to me glaringly wrong on the tax return.
(10:37):
And she's like, well, I didn'tthink that looked right, but.
I'm just a bookkeeper.
Well, that didn't seemlike that could be correct.
Mm-hmm.
But I'm just a bookkeeper, right?
So I was like, this is wrong.
Here's the language.
This is wrong.
Here's why this is wrong.
Let me explain how it'ssupposed to be done.
And then she was able to goback to that potential client.
Well, that client, this is what I foundout after the fact last week on our Ask A CPA, she said in front of everything.
(11:01):
So that client was so grateful tohave these answers, that not only did she end up doing an engagement.
With this bookkeeper to do a fullcleanup on years of books that she had been DIYing that were not in good
shape, but also she agreed to use thisbookkeeper's CPA, who she has a great relationship with, who she knows does
(11:25):
great work, who is collaborative, andthe CPA and the bookkeeper are going to
collaborate on this cleanup and filingamended returns for all of these years.
Nice, right?
I mean like this can be done.
Yeah.
So yes, there are bookkeepersout there who don't wanna learn.
There are tax pros out there whoyou'll never have a good relationship, but over time we can weed them out.
(11:47):
And then the third approach, thethird prong on this is why I am on The Unique CPA podcast today: we gotta
convince tax pros that collaboratingis worth their time and energy.
And I'm honestly.
I am surprised that this has been sohard and I think you would be too.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
I've spoken at FinancialSense Workflow Con.
My final presentation for Theaterof Public Speaking was on this
(12:09):
topic, and we did Jeopardy at TaxTwitter retreat to illustrate.
Thank you for helping me out with that.
That was, yeah, that was fun.
So much fun, fun.
To illustrate why we should educatebookkeepers about tax, because.
Them knowing how to prepare tax readybooks with work papers and source
documents that illustrate to you asthe tax pro, these books are clean.
(12:36):
Yes.
The W2 and W threes havebeen tied out to payroll.
Yes.
The draws or distributions.
Are accurate.
The tax payments that were for PTEor corporate tax are on the p and l
and the estimated personal taxes oryou know, a sub-account of draws.
Like all of these thingsthat drive us nuts.
Yes, they took reasonable compensationand their health insurance is in box one, but not box three or five of the W2.
(13:05):
Like all of these things that if weonly have a touch point with a client once a year as their tax pro, which.
That would be an argument of minewould be that you should not do that.
You should be collaborating year round.
But let's say that you've onlygot this once a year touchpoint.
Don't you want that bookkeeper todo all the things throughout the
course of the year that you wouldhave done had you been checking in?
(13:27):
It's already done for you.
Once it gets to tax season,it's just like beautiful.
So I, I really think this three-prongedapproach of talking to tax pros, teaching the bookkeepers and letting the small
business owners know that this is actuallysomething where they need to set the tone.
They need to expect it.
They need to demand it.
I think that is how I would liketo move forward in truly making
(13:50):
what I think would be a, a groundswell, like a shift in our industry.
Yep.
I think that's great.
When those books are ready,like you were just saying.
Mm-hmm.
I
mean, the tax return's, nothing,I mean tax return's done.
Yeah.
And then
you can focus on howcan we do tax planning?
Yes.
How can we improve your margins?
(14:12):
Like how can we do the things that we.
As human beings, not as computers,can identify and use our technology to help us come up with what if scenarios.
And I mean like we, we couldreally make a difference.
Yep.
In a lot of small business owners lives.
(14:32):
So when are you start in thatsecond community of the tax pros?
I guess it wouldn't be called Ask aBookkeeper, but there's something else
there for the tax pros to get on theirend of things to bridge that gap.
Yeah.
With
the bookkeeper as well.
So, well, I mean, I would
say that the one tiny little resourcethat I can mention that is out there in
addition, so there's my financial senseworkflow con presentation from, from this.
(14:58):
Past year.
As a matter of fact, when I send youthe links for, you know, to post with
this podcast, one of those links isgoing to be a page on my website.
It's called Presentations andPodcasts, I think, and you can rewatch.
A lot of the things that I've broughtup here, like you can watch the podcasts that are client centered.
(15:19):
I encourage bookkeepers to sendthose client centered podcasts to their clients so that they don't
have to explain to their clients whythis type of collaboration is so.
Important, right?
Mm-hmm.
I can explain it to the client andalso this workflow con that I did for Financial Sense about why and how,
because there's the three-prongedapproach, but there's also like, there
(15:41):
are a lot of really good next steps,like how can you collaborate efficiency?
'cause it's not justabout training, right?
Like training is very,very, very important.
But also, you know, you needto create a workflow and.
Learn how to communicate effectively.
Technology can really help in that.
One, you need to agree on wherethe source documents can be found.
(16:02):
So you know, there are a lot ofnext steps that can be taken, which are very practical.
So you can find that on mypresentations and podcast page.
And also Jason Stats did.
Two episodes on his daily and he gaveus a, a shout out with Ask a CPA for the amazing work we're doing in this area.
And one of them was, what dotax Pros wish bookkeepers knew?
(16:24):
And what do bookkeeperswish Tax Pros knew?
A great example there to all ofthe tax professionals who are
listening when you create thosetax adjusting journal entries.
Please don't just go into the books andsmash those into the journal entries.
'cause a lot of times you're hittingsubledgers, like accounts payable or accounts receivable or clearing
(16:47):
accounts where there's actually like aproper workflow depending on the type of bookkeeping software they're using.
And that can really mess things up.
The number of things I've seenin these one-on-one sessions and ask A-C-P-A-I wish.
That I could make all of those public.
I mean, obviously those are,you know, we're looking at real tax returns and real books.
Yeah.
So I can't, right.
But I wish I could becauseyou'd be stunned how many crappy tax returns are out there.
(17:12):
Really.
It's very, very, very frustrating.
And so don't just crameverything into a journal entry.
Send those tax adjusting journalentries over to your newest favorite partner, your tax ready bookkeeper,
and they can ask you questionsabout them and have them book them.
The books and they will use thecorrect workflow for doing that.
(17:33):
And not just, I mean we will cram,you know this, we will cram, CPAs will cram anything into a journal entry.
I'm guilty of it.
Oh
yeah.
Oh, me too.
I just is how I think, you know, Ithink in debits and credits and I go,
well, this needs to be this over hereand this needs to be this over here.
Right.
You know, one of the problems is thatyou can't toggle between cash basis and accrual basis in QuickBooks in Zero.
(17:56):
There's a workaround for this, butin QuickBooks you can't do that.
Effectively, if they're journal entries,'cause the journal entries, there's no way to mark them as cash or accrual.
Oh.
So if you put a journal entry inthere and then you toggle and you say, Hey, these books are on cash basis.
You hit the radio button for cash,and I printed out the financial statements, you say, well, if these
are cash basis, then why is theresomething sitting in bad debt?
(18:20):
Right?
Yep.
Well, it's because it was a journalentry, because you didn't do it.
The right way.
Right?
And so then you need toadd that back into revenue.
And if you are collaborating with thebookkeeper and you are doing what they would like for you to do, and they're
doing what you would like for them to do,then like, oh my God, everybody's life.
Literally, everybody's life is better.
(18:41):
And I mean, the biggest challengeunfortunately, that I have seen over and over, I hesitate to.
Say this, but this is exactlyyour listeners and the people that they work with.
These are the peoplewho need to hear this.
Honestly, it's the condescending attitudeand lack of responsiveness from tax pros.
That's the worst.
That's the biggest roadblock thatI have seen in making this happen.
(19:06):
We need to change it.
We need to do better.
Randy.
Oh, I agree.
Anything we can do better tomake this profession more fun.
Mm-hmm.
And more nice and nice and nice and fun.
It is going to be great to bringpeople into the profession.
Just a couple things on whatyou're just talking about.
One I. We're not allowed to mentionJason Staats on the show, so we're gonna have to cut all of that out.
(19:34):
That's just my own role.
It's, no, it's.
Without us giving him any accolades.
I actually got in touch with himwhen he posted on social media.
It was a couple weeks, I think, afterbridging the Gap, and I had just been talking with him about at the CPA,
which he knew I was gonna be startingbecause I mean, realized his group.
(19:55):
And we did a whole workshop on.
How to start a community, right?
And so we were talking about whatthis was gonna look like, and then I talked to him about it, bridging the
gap, although he didn't recognize mewhen I first came up because I had that wig on and that crazy outfit.
Oh yeah, yeah.
For the, yeah, the bright purple wig.
And he was like, oh my God,I had no idea it was you.
So we talked about like a couple weekslater, he was posting on social media, trying to collect information on like
(20:19):
what bookkeepers wish Tax Pros knew andwhat Tax Pros wish bookkeepers knew.
And I was like, Jason.
Yeah,
this is my thing.
I just talked to you about this andhe was like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I was thinking that yourcommunity was for, for the, the firm owners and so he was great.
He gave us a big shout outon both of 'em and yeah,
Jason.
(20:40):
Great.
And I love, I get it.
He was great.
I love giving him a hard time.
So, you know, as long as I've knownhim, you know, Jason's very protective of with his cell phone number.
And so as long as I've known him, I'mlike, all right, Jason, just text me that.
And that's become a big joke, you know?
That's awesome.
I'm gonna make him listen to the shownow and I'll make him more nervous.
I'm like, 'cause you know, I'vetold him, you know, Jason very well might have your cell phone now.
(21:02):
Oh.
And I'm gonna use it one day andI'll use it just to let you know.
Hey Jason, I'm retiring.
It's nice knowing you.
So,
so I have a story for you.
So at this is the Bridging the Gap storyand the first year of Bridging the Gap, I think I, I hadn't yet met Jason in person.
He was chatting in thehallway with Hector, Hector Garcia, who's a good friend.
(21:24):
Yep.
And you and I think PaulHayman and from RC Reports Yep.
Who I adore.
And John Garrett and I were chattingand I was like, oh, I would love to get a picture of all of us.
Together.
Together, because I think even thoughI've been friends with these folks
forever, you know, I, I never get tomeet anybody in person, or I hadn't yet.
And so I wanted a photoand I looked around.
(21:46):
Nobody was in the hallwayexcept for Jason and Hector who were chatting with each other.
And I said, Hey, Hector, come over here.
Can you take a picture for us?
And Jason goes, don't you know who he is?
And I said,
right Hector, I want youto be in the picture.
Will you take,
that's a good call.
(22:07):
I with myself.
All right.
And then the other thing that I gotout of that last section is I don't know anything about accounting.
So,
so, so, which
is good.
I'm very happy with that.
Uh, I know some stuff about tax,but, and I've said this before, accounting is not my thing.
Accounting is not your thing.
(22:28):
Well, we're luckily weare really good at it.
And so are a lot of bookkeepers out there?
Yeah.
And that's the, the important part.
I think we're bookkeeper andI, I sort of have intentionally
been staying away from saying CASbecause I was wondering this Yeah.
Phrase it's.
(22:48):
CAS.
If you look at the AICPA, theyactually have a really good chart about all the things that CAS can be.
And I would actually argue it should becalled "CAAS" because it's like not just
client accounting services, but it'sclient accounting and advisory services.
And if you look at that chart, itstarts with the data needs to get into the system and it needs to be accurate
(23:10):
and it moves all the way to doinglike really complex advisory work.
Yep.
And everything in between.
And I feel like there is, you know,to go along with this frustration that I've had about the condescension.
We see among many taxpreparers toward bookkeepers.
(23:30):
I feel like sometimes they're using theword CAS to sort of distance themselves from the concept of bookkeeping.
On the left hand side of that AICPAchart that explains what CAS really is.
That's bookkeeping folks.
Bookkeeping.
We are keeping the books and it is, it'sfrustrating because what bookkeeping
(23:53):
is has changed so much through theyears, especially as we are now.
We're looking at a good bookkeeper.
They dance circles technology wisearound most tax pros out there.
They really do.
They have to know so much abouttechnology because there are, we're syncing so many different systems with.
(24:15):
Our general ledger, it's absolutelyessential that they're doing the work that they're doing.
So bookkeeping is CAS.
They are the same thing.
If you look at the left handside of the A i, CPA's sort of definition about what CAS is.
Yeah.
And so bookkeeping and CAS, ifyou have a cast department in your firm, I'm talking to you.
(24:38):
That is who these people are.
Right?
Right.
Bookkeeping
is necessary and it's not a questionof like how advanced it is or not.
It's not like that.
Like we need accurate books in order todo any of the rest of our job properly.
Yeah.
Whether it's compliance or advisory, theterminology hasn't caught up with the fact that the field has broadened tremendously
(25:00):
and there are so many different rolesthat are all under this umbrella.
Of bookkeeping and caf and the Venndiagram where they overlap is more than where they're not overlapping.
Yep.
Nope, I agree.
And that's what I, a lot of what Itook out is whether you're working with an outsource bookkeeping or an
internal bookkeeping, this is stillan issue and this is where we have
(25:21):
to bridge that gap and collaborateand create efficiencies Absolutely.
For everybody with the clientbeing the recipient of the great service that we all wanna give.
Absolutely.
And if a tax pro knows somebodywho they think has potential and is excited to learn and they don't
want to do it for whatever reason,maybe they don't enjoy teaching.
(25:44):
Maybe they're an introvert, maybethey don't have enough time.
Maybe they, for whatever reason.
Refer them to our group.
Yep.
We'll do the heavy lifting for you andwe will happily invite you to participate if that's something you're excited about.
We actually did a Tax Pro panel thatwas a very popular one, and actually we made that one public, so it's on my
(26:05):
YouTube channel and it was a tax propanel to illustrate where tax preparers are aligned in our preferences and
also where there aren't really, aren'tstandards and we're each doing it.
In our own way.
You know, it could be, you know,who maintains, sets and maintains the capitalization policy.
It could be as simple as that.
It could be where you wantsomething to be categorized and how you want it to be noted.
(26:28):
Those are not the same from TaxPro to Tax Pro and it's really confusing for bookkeepers.
So, yep, check that one out as well.
If you're a bookkeeper, curiousabout how different tax pros.
Do it differently than each other.
Yep.
And I actually saw that on YouTube,but I think, is that the one with Andrea McDonald was in that?
That one.
Andrea.
Katie Healy.
(26:48):
Olivia Henley, Stephanie Steinke.
Yep.
Yep.
All right.
Well, awesome.
Oh, well this has been great.
I think the idea is great.
The community's great.
What you're doing is great.
I'm gonna say a great, a lot of timesright now, but, uh, um, unfortunately, we have to start wrapping up the show.
We do.
We could honestly, apparentlytalk all day long because.
(27:11):
I think we have already, we
have, yeah, we were talking for 50minutes before we started recording.
We started recording and we've been
recording for an hour and 16 minutesnow, so this might be a record actually.
Oh my God.
I dunno.
I think I'm honored.
I think I'm honored that you're like,you're just really into what we're doing and I appreciate that support so much.
(27:32):
I mean, the, the recognition I, Ihad already shared with you that we were gonna be starting this.
The CPA community.
Oh, I haven't told your listenersyet how they can learn more about it,
but if you go for sure the dancingaccountant.com, that is my website.
There is a a tab for Ask a cpa.
Just click on that and it's got all theinformation, including what is included.
(27:54):
It costs $47 a month.
It's a deal.
It's a deal.
We are trying to keepit really accessible.
We want it to be something thateverybody who's interested in learning this can afford it to.
Learn it again.
I really do think this could be a bigpart of addressing the pipeline crisis.
And you saw that when we initiallytalked about it, and you said that it was one of the reasons for the
(28:19):
Mentor of the Year award at Bridgingthe Gap, which I'm so truly grateful.
To you
Well
for that, that
was an easy one.
So I appreciate everything you do and foryou being on the show and helping with our conference and everything you've done.
So, absolutely.
So thank you so much though.
If, if there's anybody out there whois still on the fence about whether they're interested in signing up to
(28:40):
attend Bridging the Gap, I can say itis unequivocally my favorite conference.
The reason I'm on theadvisory board this year.
That I have just talked it up so much thefirst two years because it's, as I was saying earlier, it's very special that
it's about learning how to create, run,and manage a sustainable accounting firm,
(29:02):
whether that's bookkeeping, accounting,tax advisory, however you define.
It's about running a sustainable firm,but it doesn't just give you the wouldn't this be nice pie in the sky approach.
It's actionable, practical insights.
How do I make this happen?
And it's just an incredible conference.
(29:24):
So if you are on the fence, get off of it.
Just go register already.
Right, and we'll put thatin the show notes too.
BTG conference.com.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Awesome.
You're always a great advocate forour conference and I appreciate that.
Well, I always have one final questionand, but I think we already answered it, but the final question is, you know,
whether you're outside of work passions,we talked about the answer, we talked about sake, we talked about the community.
(29:49):
I don't know, is there anythingelse you wanna add to that?
You know what I'm gonna add to that?
I love museums.
I love museums so much.
As a matter of fact, my husbandMark and I have a little group on Facebook called Drink and Learn.
And yeah, drink and Learn is where wepost when we are going to be going to.
(30:10):
Let's say Field Museum has a lecture.
We'll get a group of people togetherand we'll go hang out at the bar.
I don't know if you know, but the FieldMuseum has a bar and they have good beer.
Yes, I do.
We used to be membersthere for a long time.
Oh, we still are.
I think I'm a member at likealmost every museum in Chicago.
It's kind of amazing.
I love museums so much.
Or when the Shed Aquarium has their jazzat the shed, you know, we, we go to that.
(30:32):
The Chicago History Museum has areally excellent series of programs there, and these are all places.
Where you can drink and youcan learn and we love it.
So museums, I mean, drinking and learning.
There you go.
Those are two of my favorite things.
All right.
And dancing.
And
dancing
and all of the other things too.
All right.
Well, Nancy, thank you so much.
This has been a lot of fun.
Thank you.
(30:52):
And, uh, looking forward to seeingyou in person here, hopefully in May.
Yeah, happy early birthday.
You too.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on the show.
Randy,
thank you for joining ustoday on The Unique CPA.
A. You can find the show notesfor today's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit at TheUniqueCPA.com.
(31:15):
Remember to subscribe andleave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app.
And join us next time for more expertiseand insights on The Unique CPA.
Hey,
professional productions.net.
Hello and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
Today, Randy concludes his conversationabout community building with The Dancing Accountant, Nancy McClelland.
They focus on collaboration betweenbookkeepers and tax professionals, the Ask A CPA community, and more.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
(00:23):
My point is that without creatingsystems and expectations and shared resources, like the things that
actually make collaboration possible,it doesn't matter where you're sitting.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're in the same office.
Everyone needs this.
The first step really isn't like inunderstanding why you should even bother.
(00:45):
Intentionality, haveintentionality moving the desk.
Absolutely.
That was not really intentionality.
And this is culture, really.
I mean, it's creating a culture wherewe're sharing ideas together and where
we're communicating and where we'regetting to know the people, as you'd said.
Yeah.
It goes back to everythingthat we were talking about.
Yep.
Yeah, I mean it's, I guess it'snot a surprise when you look at.
(01:07):
How I came into this industry in thefirst place and how I grew my firm and then like how afca CPA came out of this.
It again, if I look backwards,the path is quite obvious.
I just couldn't see it because itgrew very organically Right into this.
Yeah.
But it is, it's aboutpersonal relationships.
I mean, there are lots of reasonsto collaborate and when I gave my talk at Financial Sense.
(01:33):
Workflow Con, I went through the listof, you know, your common client's best interests are the end goal.
It's easier for everyone ifwe set clear expectations and execute them before busy season.
Successful collaborationleads to future work with.
The good ones, right?
The responsible partners, theones that we want to work with.
(01:54):
Mm-hmm.
Not the ones who don't care and but myrunner up to go along with what you're just saying, which is that work is
just more enjoyable when we rememberthat the other person is human too.
Yeah.
That, that.
You're working with humans.
(02:16):
Humans and have fun.
All right?
Yes.
Okay.
Exactly.
Alright, I got it.
I was gonna say good story.
I don't know.
They chair the desk moving story.
It was a good story, but it's alearning story and so, but we just said
intentionality, getting to know the peoplethat you work with and vulnerability.
All these things I think thatyou've said are so important.
(02:38):
But how do we start toput this in practice then?
I mean, you, we are asco, CPA, so you'retalking about the bookkeepers, but now
we need to also get the CPAs or the EAs,the tax advisors to be, you know Yeah.
Community, uh, collaboration.
And by the way, this is verybridging the gap of you, because
when people ask me what I love somuch about bridging the gap, I say.
(03:00):
You're getting both theoryand practice at the same time.
Like, why should we do these things?
Why are they better for us?
And then how do we do them?
Like Nayo's presentation on howto take a vacation during tax season, like, you know, which
yeah.
Actually happened this year,which was just amazing.
Nice.
It was only two days, but it was,they were two beautiful days.
So I would argue that we need totake a three-pronged approach.
(03:25):
Yep.
We, and I am, I'm tryingto do this in my own life.
It's a big burden and so Iwould say to you and to your listeners, I need your help.
I'm there.
Tell me what you need.
You're so
supportive.
I love it.
You're so nice and fun, Randy.
Um, so first off, we need to showsmall business owners the need, right?
(03:46):
We need to show small business ownersthat they have the authority to set the culture and the expectations
that the tax pro and the bookkeeperare gonna function as a team.
I did a podcast with Hannah Smolinskifrom Clara, CFO on this, I did a podcast with Jaime Staley on this.
I think that we need more clientfacing education because if they really own this relationship and if
(04:11):
they recognize that it's gonna fallinto their lap, at the end of the day, if this relationship goes sour or I.
Never fully is realized like it.
It affects how accurate their return is.
It affects the insight that theycan have into their numbers and what story those numbers tell.
And the advisory, like bookkeepers matter.
(04:33):
They really matter.
I. The data that is going into thebooks, how it is categorized, the technology that's being used to sync
the various pieces of software thatthe client is using in their business.
Like the bookkeepers have to be reallygood at all of this stuff and make sure that it is showing up in a way that
(04:55):
simultaneously allows the tax pro to trustthose numbers and just plug them into.
A return, but also to provide theadvisory together to provide the advisory services that these small
business owners need in order to stayvibrant and give back to their own
communities and make the difference thatwe wanna see them making in the world.
(05:18):
Right?
The bookkeepers matterin this relationship.
They're essential, but the smallbusiness owner needs to know that.
Secondly.
Educate the bookkeepers.
Right?
That's what we're doing.
And ask a CPA.
Mm-hmm.
It's what Andrea McDonald andMegan Guness Tarno are working on in their small group cohorts.
Right.
Like, we need to educate the bookkeepers.
(05:39):
I do hear the complaint, and this wassomething that at #TaxTwitter Retreat folks came up to talk to me about
afterward, that there are some bookkeepersout there who don't wanna learn.
This is true.
Let's not focus on them though.
They're in the minority.
Mm-hmm.
Over time, they'll learn thatgetting good clients depends on them wanting to learn to do better.
(06:03):
The good ones, whether you're a tax proor you're a bookkeeper, the good ones want to work with the other good ones, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And this is how we get there, right?
We gotta educate the bookkeepers.
Let's not focus on the ones who don'twanna learn, because that would be like the bookkeeper is focusing on all
the CPAs who don't wanna treat themwith respect, or all the CPAs who.
Literally cannot be bothered topick up the phone or respond to an email or anything like that.
(06:27):
I had somebody in Ask a CPA last weekwho said that they have not been able to get any information whatsoever to or
from, like there's zero communicationwith the tax repairer and they got in touch with the small business owner
about it, and the small businessowners said that they could fax.
The cpa.
That was the best way to get in touch.
I was like, really?
(06:47):
Are we kidding?
And so over time when I'm teachingthe bookkeepers, they bookkeepers will fixate on the bad tax pros, right?
The non-communicative ones or the oneswho are clearly not doing a good job.
The tax pros will fixate on thebookkeepers that don't wanna learn or they feel like can't be taught right?
But let's set those aside becauseif we're all doing our jobs well.
(07:11):
Then what I teach in my tax readybookkeeping course is, you know, you find yourself a new dance partner.
Ooh, dance.
Yeah, I'm bringing it back to the dance.
It's like Fred Astaireand Ginger Rogers, right?
Like one of them calling the shots,creating the choreographies, getting
top billing, and the other one isdancing backwards and in high heels.
(07:35):
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So it, it needs to be more collaborative,and I do think it's important that bookkeepers, they learn what they need
to learn from a technical side, and thatmakes them feel more confident in actually
having agency to say to the client, wehad a big win last week on our Ask A CPA.
(07:57):
We have twice monthly q and As plus lotsof guest folks, you know, coming to speak and bonus panels and things like that.
It's, oh gosh, Randy, I would
love to have
you
come talk with them.
That
would be incredible.
Did you just volunteer?
I did.
Alright.
It's not a paying gig dude, so
that's alright.
So
(08:20):
monthly q. So everybody, they submittheir questions in our circle community, and then I answer them in circle.
And then I pick the ones that I feel are,you know, most illustrative for the group.
And we do those.
And actually, one of the things that'sso wonderful about it is that not only do we record every one of these
sessions, but we actually, you know,my husband's a software developer and he goes through and he parses each
(08:43):
of the questions separately and heposts them with the recording with a.
Timestamp.
That's a hyperlink tothat question and circle.
And our searchable, our database,they're both searchable.
And so let's say you have a questionabout how benefits should show up on a W2.
You know, you can type inbenefits and you will find.
The answer in circle, you willfind the answer in the recording.
(09:06):
You can click on that hyperlinkand you can just watch that part.
You don't have to attend everysingle one of these live.
You don't have to watchthe entire recording.
It's one of the things that's veryspecial about the community is that
you really, I. Can focus on the partsthat you want to learn the most.
And then there are people whocome to every single q and a just because they always learn something.
So last week I had had aone-on-one because another thing
(09:29):
with ASCA CPA is they get a 25%discount on one-on-one sessions.
And so I had had a one-on-one session withthis person who was having trouble with a potential client, had come and said.
I don't feel really good about my books.
I'm not so sure about my tax return.
I want this to be done right.
I don't know how to tell ifit's being done right or not.
(09:51):
And there were a lot of things thatthis bookkeeper saw that were not
good in both the books and on the taxreturn, but she didn't trust herself.
'cause she was like, well,what do I know about taxes?
I'm just a bookkeeper.
Mm-hmm.
I try to teach everybodyto get rid of that word.
Just yes.
I put it in air quotes becausethere's no such thing as.
Just a bookkeeper.
(10:11):
Bookkeepers are essential.
They matter.
They count,
right?
Ooh, bookkeepers count.
I love
that bookkeepers count.
I'm making a sticker.
Bookkeepers count.
Ask a CPA.
I like it.
Yeah, so, so we had a one-on-onetogether and we went through the tax
return, we went through the books andI was like, well, here's your issue.
And I pointed out all of these thingsthat were just blatantly and to me glaringly wrong on the tax return.
(10:37):
And she's like, well, I didn'tthink that looked right, but.
I'm just a bookkeeper.
Well, that didn't seemlike that could be correct.
Mm-hmm.
But I'm just a bookkeeper, right?
So I was like, this is wrong.
Here's the language.
This is wrong.
Here's why this is wrong.
Let me explain how it'ssupposed to be done.
And then she was able to goback to that potential client.
Well, that client, this is what I foundout after the fact last week on our Ask A CPA, she said in front of everything.
(11:01):
So that client was so grateful tohave these answers, that not only did she end up doing an engagement.
With this bookkeeper to do a fullcleanup on years of books that she had been DIYing that were not in good
shape, but also she agreed to use thisbookkeeper's CPA, who she has a great relationship with, who she knows does
(11:25):
great work, who is collaborative, andthe CPA and the bookkeeper are going to
collaborate on this cleanup and filingamended returns for all of these years.
Nice, right?
I mean like this can be done.
Yeah.
So yes, there are bookkeepersout there who don't wanna learn.
There are tax pros out there whoyou'll never have a good relationship, but over time we can weed them out.
(11:47):
And then the third approach, thethird prong on this is why I am on The Unique CPA podcast today: we gotta
convince tax pros that collaboratingis worth their time and energy.
And I'm honestly.
I am surprised that this has been sohard and I think you would be too.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
I've spoken at FinancialSense Workflow Con.
My final presentation for Theaterof Public Speaking was on this
(12:09):
topic, and we did Jeopardy at TaxTwitter retreat to illustrate.
Thank you for helping me out with that.
That was, yeah, that was fun.
So much fun, fun.
To illustrate why we should educatebookkeepers about tax, because.
Them knowing how to prepare tax readybooks with work papers and source
documents that illustrate to you asthe tax pro, these books are clean.
(12:36):
Yes.
The W2 and W threes havebeen tied out to payroll.
Yes.
The draws or distributions.
Are accurate.
The tax payments that were for PTEor corporate tax are on the p and l
and the estimated personal taxes oryou know, a sub-account of draws.
Like all of these thingsthat drive us nuts.
Yes, they took reasonable compensationand their health insurance is in box one, but not box three or five of the W2.
(13:05):
Like all of these things that if weonly have a touch point with a client once a year as their tax pro, which.
That would be an argument of minewould be that you should not do that.
You should be collaborating year round.
But let's say that you've onlygot this once a year touchpoint.
Don't you want that bookkeeper todo all the things throughout the
course of the year that you wouldhave done had you been checking in?
(13:27):
It's already done for you.
Once it gets to tax season,it's just like beautiful.
So I, I really think this three-prongedapproach of talking to tax pros, teaching the bookkeepers and letting the small
business owners know that this is actuallysomething where they need to set the tone.
They need to expect it.
They need to demand it.
I think that is how I would liketo move forward in truly making
(13:50):
what I think would be a, a groundswell, like a shift in our industry.
Yep.
I think that's great.
When those books are ready,like you were just saying.
Mm-hmm.
I
mean, the tax return's, nothing,I mean tax return's done.
Yeah.
And then
you can focus on howcan we do tax planning?
Yes.
How can we improve your margins?
(14:12):
Like how can we do the things that we.
As human beings, not as computers,can identify and use our technology to help us come up with what if scenarios.
And I mean like we, we couldreally make a difference.
Yep.
In a lot of small business owners lives.
(14:32):
So when are you start in thatsecond community of the tax pros?
I guess it wouldn't be called Ask aBookkeeper, but there's something else
there for the tax pros to get on theirend of things to bridge that gap.
Yeah.
With
the bookkeeper as well.
So, well, I mean, I would
say that the one tiny little resourcethat I can mention that is out there in
addition, so there's my financial senseworkflow con presentation from, from this.
(14:58):
Past year.
As a matter of fact, when I send youthe links for, you know, to post with
this podcast, one of those links isgoing to be a page on my website.
It's called Presentations andPodcasts, I think, and you can rewatch.
A lot of the things that I've broughtup here, like you can watch the podcasts that are client centered.
(15:19):
I encourage bookkeepers to sendthose client centered podcasts to their clients so that they don't
have to explain to their clients whythis type of collaboration is so.
Important, right?
Mm-hmm.
I can explain it to the client andalso this workflow con that I did for Financial Sense about why and how,
because there's the three-prongedapproach, but there's also like, there
(15:41):
are a lot of really good next steps,like how can you collaborate efficiency?
'cause it's not justabout training, right?
Like training is very,very, very important.
But also, you know, you needto create a workflow and.
Learn how to communicate effectively.
Technology can really help in that.
One, you need to agree on wherethe source documents can be found.
(16:02):
So you know, there are a lot ofnext steps that can be taken, which are very practical.
So you can find that on mypresentations and podcast page.
And also Jason Stats did.
Two episodes on his daily and he gaveus a, a shout out with Ask a CPA for the amazing work we're doing in this area.
And one of them was, what dotax Pros wish bookkeepers knew?
(16:24):
And what do bookkeeperswish Tax Pros knew?
A great example there to all ofthe tax professionals who are
listening when you create thosetax adjusting journal entries.
Please don't just go into the books andsmash those into the journal entries.
'cause a lot of times you're hittingsubledgers, like accounts payable or accounts receivable or clearing
(16:47):
accounts where there's actually like aproper workflow depending on the type of bookkeeping software they're using.
And that can really mess things up.
The number of things I've seenin these one-on-one sessions and ask A-C-P-A-I wish.
That I could make all of those public.
I mean, obviously those are,you know, we're looking at real tax returns and real books.
Yeah.
So I can't, right.
But I wish I could becauseyou'd be stunned how many crappy tax returns are out there.
(17:12):
Really.
It's very, very, very frustrating.
And so don't just crameverything into a journal entry.
Send those tax adjusting journalentries over to your newest favorite partner, your tax ready bookkeeper,
and they can ask you questionsabout them and have them book them.
The books and they will use thecorrect workflow for doing that.
(17:33):
And not just, I mean we will cram,you know this, we will cram, CPAs will cram anything into a journal entry.
I'm guilty of it.
Oh
yeah.
Oh, me too.
I just is how I think, you know, Ithink in debits and credits and I go,
well, this needs to be this over hereand this needs to be this over here.
Right.
You know, one of the problems is thatyou can't toggle between cash basis and accrual basis in QuickBooks in Zero.
(17:56):
There's a workaround for this, butin QuickBooks you can't do that.
Effectively, if they're journal entries,'cause the journal entries, there's no way to mark them as cash or accrual.
Oh.
So if you put a journal entry inthere and then you toggle and you say, Hey, these books are on cash basis.
You hit the radio button for cash,and I printed out the financial statements, you say, well, if these
are cash basis, then why is theresomething sitting in bad debt?
(18:20):
Right?
Yep.
Well, it's because it was a journalentry, because you didn't do it.
The right way.
Right?
And so then you need toadd that back into revenue.
And if you are collaborating with thebookkeeper and you are doing what they would like for you to do, and they're
doing what you would like for them to do,then like, oh my God, everybody's life.
Literally, everybody's life is better.
(18:41):
And I mean, the biggest challengeunfortunately, that I have seen over and over, I hesitate to.
Say this, but this is exactlyyour listeners and the people that they work with.
These are the peoplewho need to hear this.
Honestly, it's the condescending attitudeand lack of responsiveness from tax pros.
That's the worst.
That's the biggest roadblock thatI have seen in making this happen.
(19:06):
We need to change it.
We need to do better.
Randy.
Oh, I agree.
Anything we can do better tomake this profession more fun.
Mm-hmm.
And more nice and nice and nice and fun.
It is going to be great to bringpeople into the profession.
Just a couple things on whatyou're just talking about.
One I. We're not allowed to mentionJason Staats on the show, so we're gonna have to cut all of that out.
(19:34):
That's just my own role.
It's, no, it's.
Without us giving him any accolades.
I actually got in touch with himwhen he posted on social media.
It was a couple weeks, I think, afterbridging the Gap, and I had just been talking with him about at the CPA,
which he knew I was gonna be startingbecause I mean, realized his group.
(19:55):
And we did a whole workshop on.
How to start a community, right?
And so we were talking about whatthis was gonna look like, and then I talked to him about it, bridging the
gap, although he didn't recognize mewhen I first came up because I had that wig on and that crazy outfit.
Oh yeah, yeah.
For the, yeah, the bright purple wig.
And he was like, oh my God,I had no idea it was you.
So we talked about like a couple weekslater, he was posting on social media, trying to collect information on like
(20:19):
what bookkeepers wish Tax Pros knew andwhat Tax Pros wish bookkeepers knew.
And I was like, Jason.
Yeah,
this is my thing.
I just talked to you about this andhe was like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I was thinking that yourcommunity was for, for the, the firm owners and so he was great.
He gave us a big shout outon both of 'em and yeah,
Jason.
(20:40):
Great.
And I love, I get it.
He was great.
I love giving him a hard time.
So, you know, as long as I've knownhim, you know, Jason's very protective of with his cell phone number.
And so as long as I've known him, I'mlike, all right, Jason, just text me that.
And that's become a big joke, you know?
That's awesome.
I'm gonna make him listen to the shownow and I'll make him more nervous.
I'm like, 'cause you know, I'vetold him, you know, Jason very well might have your cell phone now.
(21:02):
Oh.
And I'm gonna use it one day andI'll use it just to let you know.
Hey Jason, I'm retiring.
It's nice knowing you.
So,
so I have a story for you.
So at this is the Bridging the Gap storyand the first year of Bridging the Gap, I think I, I hadn't yet met Jason in person.
He was chatting in thehallway with Hector, Hector Garcia, who's a good friend.
(21:24):
Yep.
And you and I think PaulHayman and from RC Reports Yep.
Who I adore.
And John Garrett and I were chattingand I was like, oh, I would love to get a picture of all of us.
Together.
Together, because I think even thoughI've been friends with these folks
forever, you know, I, I never get tomeet anybody in person, or I hadn't yet.
And so I wanted a photoand I looked around.
(21:46):
Nobody was in the hallwayexcept for Jason and Hector who were chatting with each other.
And I said, Hey, Hector, come over here.
Can you take a picture for us?
And Jason goes, don't you know who he is?
And I said,
right Hector, I want youto be in the picture.
Will you take,
that's a good call.
(22:07):
I with myself.
All right.
And then the other thing that I gotout of that last section is I don't know anything about accounting.
So,
so, so, which
is good.
I'm very happy with that.
Uh, I know some stuff about tax,but, and I've said this before, accounting is not my thing.
Accounting is not your thing.
(22:28):
Well, we're luckily weare really good at it.
And so are a lot of bookkeepers out there?
Yeah.
And that's the, the important part.
I think we're bookkeeper andI, I sort of have intentionally
been staying away from saying CASbecause I was wondering this Yeah.
Phrase it's.
(22:48):
CAS.
If you look at the AICPA, theyactually have a really good chart about all the things that CAS can be.
And I would actually argue it should becalled "CAAS" because it's like not just
client accounting services, but it'sclient accounting and advisory services.
And if you look at that chart, itstarts with the data needs to get into the system and it needs to be accurate
(23:10):
and it moves all the way to doinglike really complex advisory work.
Yep.
And everything in between.
And I feel like there is, you know,to go along with this frustration that I've had about the condescension.
We see among many taxpreparers toward bookkeepers.
(23:30):
I feel like sometimes they're using theword CAS to sort of distance themselves from the concept of bookkeeping.
On the left hand side of that AICPAchart that explains what CAS really is.
That's bookkeeping folks.
Bookkeeping.
We are keeping the books and it is, it'sfrustrating because what bookkeeping
(23:53):
is has changed so much through theyears, especially as we are now.
We're looking at a good bookkeeper.
They dance circles technology wisearound most tax pros out there.
They really do.
They have to know so much abouttechnology because there are, we're syncing so many different systems with.
(24:15):
Our general ledger, it's absolutelyessential that they're doing the work that they're doing.
So bookkeeping is CAS.
They are the same thing.
If you look at the left handside of the A i, CPA's sort of definition about what CAS is.
Yeah.
And so bookkeeping and CAS, ifyou have a cast department in your firm, I'm talking to you.
(24:38):
That is who these people are.
Right?
Right.
Bookkeeping
is necessary and it's not a questionof like how advanced it is or not.
It's not like that.
Like we need accurate books in order todo any of the rest of our job properly.
Yeah.
Whether it's compliance or advisory, theterminology hasn't caught up with the fact that the field has broadened tremendously
(25:00):
and there are so many different rolesthat are all under this umbrella.
Of bookkeeping and caf and the Venndiagram where they overlap is more than where they're not overlapping.
Yep.
Nope, I agree.
And that's what I, a lot of what Itook out is whether you're working with an outsource bookkeeping or an
internal bookkeeping, this is stillan issue and this is where we have
(25:21):
to bridge that gap and collaborateand create efficiencies Absolutely.
For everybody with the clientbeing the recipient of the great service that we all wanna give.
Absolutely.
And if a tax pro knows somebodywho they think has potential and is excited to learn and they don't
want to do it for whatever reason,maybe they don't enjoy teaching.
(25:44):
Maybe they're an introvert, maybethey don't have enough time.
Maybe they, for whatever reason.
Refer them to our group.
Yep.
We'll do the heavy lifting for you andwe will happily invite you to participate if that's something you're excited about.
We actually did a Tax Pro panel thatwas a very popular one, and actually we made that one public, so it's on my
(26:05):
YouTube channel and it was a tax propanel to illustrate where tax preparers are aligned in our preferences and
also where there aren't really, aren'tstandards and we're each doing it.
In our own way.
You know, it could be, you know,who maintains, sets and maintains the capitalization policy.
It could be as simple as that.
It could be where you wantsomething to be categorized and how you want it to be noted.
(26:28):
Those are not the same from TaxPro to Tax Pro and it's really confusing for bookkeepers.
So, yep, check that one out as well.
If you're a bookkeeper, curiousabout how different tax pros.
Do it differently than each other.
Yep.
And I actually saw that on YouTube,but I think, is that the one with Andrea McDonald was in that?
That one.
Andrea.
Katie Healy.
(26:48):
Olivia Henley, Stephanie Steinke.
Yep.
Yep.
All right.
Well, awesome.
Oh, well this has been great.
I think the idea is great.
The community's great.
What you're doing is great.
I'm gonna say a great, a lot of timesright now, but, uh, um, unfortunately, we have to start wrapping up the show.
We do.
We could honestly, apparentlytalk all day long because.
(27:11):
I think we have already, we
have, yeah, we were talking for 50minutes before we started recording.
We started recording and we've been
recording for an hour and 16 minutesnow, so this might be a record actually.
Oh my God.
I dunno.
I think I'm honored.
I think I'm honored that you're like,you're just really into what we're doing and I appreciate that support so much.
(27:32):
I mean, the, the recognition I, Ihad already shared with you that we were gonna be starting this.
The CPA community.
Oh, I haven't told your listenersyet how they can learn more about it,
but if you go for sure the dancingaccountant.com, that is my website.
There is a a tab for Ask a cpa.
Just click on that and it's got all theinformation, including what is included.
(27:54):
It costs $47 a month.
It's a deal.
It's a deal.
We are trying to keepit really accessible.
We want it to be something thateverybody who's interested in learning this can afford it to.
Learn it again.
I really do think this could be a bigpart of addressing the pipeline crisis.
And you saw that when we initiallytalked about it, and you said that it was one of the reasons for the
(28:19):
Mentor of the Year award at Bridgingthe Gap, which I'm so truly grateful.
To you
Well
for that, that
was an easy one.
So I appreciate everything you do and foryou being on the show and helping with our conference and everything you've done.
So, absolutely.
So thank you so much though.
If, if there's anybody out there whois still on the fence about whether they're interested in signing up to
(28:40):
attend Bridging the Gap, I can say itis unequivocally my favorite conference.
The reason I'm on theadvisory board this year.
That I have just talked it up so much thefirst two years because it's, as I was saying earlier, it's very special that
it's about learning how to create, run,and manage a sustainable accounting firm,
(29:02):
whether that's bookkeeping, accounting,tax advisory, however you define.
It's about running a sustainable firm,but it doesn't just give you the wouldn't this be nice pie in the sky approach.
It's actionable, practical insights.
How do I make this happen?
And it's just an incredible conference.
(29:24):
So if you are on the fence, get off of it.
Just go register already.
Right, and we'll put thatin the show notes too.
BTG conference.com.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Awesome.
You're always a great advocate forour conference and I appreciate that.
Well, I always have one final questionand, but I think we already answered it, but the final question is, you know,
whether you're outside of work passions,we talked about the answer, we talked about sake, we talked about the community.
(29:49):
I don't know, is there anythingelse you wanna add to that?
You know what I'm gonna add to that?
I love museums.
I love museums so much.
As a matter of fact, my husbandMark and I have a little group on Facebook called Drink and Learn.
And yeah, drink and Learn is where wepost when we are going to be going to.
(30:10):
Let's say Field Museum has a lecture.
We'll get a group of people togetherand we'll go hang out at the bar.
I don't know if you know, but the FieldMuseum has a bar and they have good beer.
Yes, I do.
We used to be membersthere for a long time.
Oh, we still are.
I think I'm a member at likealmost every museum in Chicago.
It's kind of amazing.
I love museums so much.
Or when the Shed Aquarium has their jazzat the shed, you know, we, we go to that.
(30:32):
The Chicago History Museum has areally excellent series of programs there, and these are all places.
Where you can drink and youcan learn and we love it.
So museums, I mean, drinking and learning.
There you go.
Those are two of my favorite things.
All right.
And dancing.
And
dancing
and all of the other things too.
All right.
Well, Nancy, thank you so much.
This has been a lot of fun.
Thank you.
(30:52):
And, uh, looking forward to seeingyou in person here, hopefully in May.
Yeah, happy early birthday.
You too.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on the show.
Randy,
thank you for joining ustoday on The Unique CPA.
A. You can find the show notesfor today's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit at TheUniqueCPA.com.
(31:15):
Remember to subscribe andleave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app.
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