May 6, 2025 • 30 mins
Randy Crabtree connects with business development specialist Chris Cocca on Episode 210 of The Unique CPA. The President of Strategic Sales and former actively practicing CPA, Chris now specializes in helping accounting firms grow and scale by identifying and leveraging their rainmakers, implementing effective business development processes, and formalizing sales methodologies. Focusing on efficiency in business development and highlighting the importance of having a sales leader within the firm, Chris emphasizes the need for a tailored approach to coaching salespeople and aligning business development with firm growth goals on a person-to-person level.
Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUniqueCPA.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
(00:04):
We are committed to creating a thrivingcommunity of accounting professionals
who are physically and mentally healthy,fulfilled, and energized by their work.
Our ultimate goal is to elevatethe reputation of the accounting
profession and vastly improvedthe lives of those in it.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
Today our guest is Chris Cocca.
(00:26):
Chris is president of Strategic Sales,and his firm helps accounting firms and professional service firms grow and scale.
Chris is also, we were arguing,not arguing, we're asking what's
the right way to say this, butformer CPA is the way he listed.
I know some people say inactive CPA,I know some people say recovering CPA.
(00:48):
Chris has a unique view on whatwe're gonna talk about today, being a sales strategist and.
Former CPA, Chris,welcome to The Unique CPA.
Thank you Randy.
I'm really excited tobe on with you today.
Yeah.
And when we met at one of RobBrown's Accounting Influencer round tables, correct?
(01:09):
We did.
We did.
In fact, Rob and I are talking in twodays, so looking forward to, we've been trying to get together for the
last month or two, and finally wefound a date that works so we can, we can see what we can do to continue
to help people in this profession,which is what you're doing as well.
Alright, so let's go.
We are gonna talk about what you'redoing and how you're helping accounting firms, CPA firms bookkeeping for
(01:32):
whatever it is with their, you know,strategic sales and growth and scaling.
And so before we do that, you know, Idid a quick intro, but part of this.
I want you to introduce yourselves froma standpoint of you do have this unique perspective being a CPA or, you know,
former CPA and now the sales guru, whicha lot of people will think don't mesh together well, it's not a skillset.
(01:57):
They think a lot ofpeople feel fits together.
Why don't you give us a littlebackground on how you came into
this role and got this passion forhelp in professional services firms?
Sure, happy to.
So I started my career asa CPA in public accounting.
Back when it was the big eight.
So that kind of dates me.
You're aging yourself.
(02:18):
So right before all the mergers gottogether and actually helped start a tax function at Hagar Clothing company,
Hagar Slacks, for those that wowhave ever bought Hagar in the past, I
have
so young started a tax function there withthe help of people in public accounting.
So really kind of cut my teeth, but prettyearly on I found this love for sales.
(02:40):
I admired the people, the sales guys atHagar, what they could do with clients, how they could help grow the business.
They were well regarded.
They were kind of like the peoplethat were looked on to really
deliver the number for the company,and I wanted to be part of that.
So I was able to move on to Frito-Layheadquarters in Dallas, Texas.
(03:02):
And talked my way into a sales job Igot, I came, they hired me as an account.
Little did they know Iwanted to be a sales guy.
And after a couple years of proving myselfthere, I went to my boss and I said, Hey Deborah, I know this is gonna be crazy.
Probably nobody's ever askedthis of you, but I really would like to get involved with sales.
She opened the door forme the rest of my career.
(03:26):
You know, kind of took a big tangentfrom accounting and finance into sales and 25 years of sales experience.
Later.
Here I am, and I started my firm'sstrategic sales about seven years ago, that I really wanted to work directly
with accounting firms and professionalservices firms and get back to my.
(03:49):
Leverage my knowledge of how hard it'sto be a CPA and do business development, and I really wanted to be closer to
the smaller, mid-size businesses inmy community and just love what I do.
And I've been doing it forseven years, and I wish I would've started this earlier.
I wish I would've jumped in salesearlier, but I wouldn't be here today if I didn't have the path that I had.
(04:12):
Yep.
It's funny you say that 'causethat's the same way I look at things.
You know, what could I have donesomething different in the past?
Could I have changed the path I went down?
Sure.
But I wouldn't want to because ifit would've brought me somewhere
different than I am right now,there's no way I would've done it.
So I agree.
I'm glad to hear you say that.
Alright, so I find this topicreally interesting because.
(04:34):
Public accounting or accounting ingeneral and professional services firms, we often, I find this not
necessarily always has to happen, andI think there's other ways to do it, but it depends on the size of the firm.
But we often have many hats as a partnerin a firm, and as you have, you and I
talked ahead of time as you have coineda seller doer, you know, we are, or.
(04:54):
Doer seller, probably more likelybecause you're probably doing a lot and trying to sell as well, and
not everybody has that skillset,but they also don't have the time.
So let's get into that doer and how youwork with that to help them, you know.
One, be better, and two, probably optimizethe time they have because they don't, you know, as a doer, that's your first
(05:18):
thought is billable hours, which isanother thing I think needs to change.
But that's a tangent we can go down later.
But this whole seller doerconcept, let's get into that.
I think it's a struggle, Randy,for balance, because you're always gonna be pulled into doing.
Client work and taking care of clientsand doing operational related things, making sure that you're at capacity, that
(05:42):
you're, you know, you're delivering theright work to the clients to help them every day, which is absolutely critical.
But at the same time, ifthe firm wants to grow.
Unless you have a big sales team, andRandy, I don't think a lot of accounting firms have really big sales teams.
I think most of them, they haverainmakers, but those rainmakers are partners or senior managers or
(06:04):
directors or somebody that's goingout and finding that new client.
I. Through their network or throughother means, and it's really difficult.
There's very little time for them tobe able to do business development, and what I help firms do is get better with
that limited amount of time becauseyou can't get more time, but you can do more with the time that you have.
(06:26):
I find ways to help them get a lotbetter at the limited amount of.
Yeah, I think, which I think isgreat because that's one thing I've seen in this profession is I really
don't think we're the best at makingthe most efficient use of our time, and partly it's because, well, it's
always been done this way and probablypeople are listening to the shows.
(06:49):
Oh, here goes Randy again, talking aboutbeing better and more efficient, but.
It just is.
It's like, this is the way we've alwaysdone it, so let's keep doing it this way.
Or, you know, partners are always selling,so partners have to do this and that.
Why do partners have to sell?
It's, I assume at some level, you know,there's just not enough resources in the firm to hire in that sales staff.
(07:11):
I think hiring a sales staffor a sales person is something that, that more firms should do.
Or if you are starting a firm.
If you feel comfortable with the businessdevelopment, then start to generate business by making that your role.
You can have, you know, someone else dothe other thing, so this is, I'm going all over the board, but I've got this.
(07:32):
I just have this whole concept, and it'soften this way to be a partner, you have to sell well, you can be really good.
Technician and Yes, but youhave to bring in business.
No.
Why don't we have the rainmakers do that?
So you could have partners do thator why do we not have the outside?
But let's dig into that if you don'tmind, because what's your ideas on that?
(07:52):
Because not everybody can, ormaybe you're gonna tell me.
Everybody can be a salesperson.
I am absolutely not gonna tell you.
Everybody can be a salespersonor do business development.
I do think you need to understand whoyour rainmakers are and who they're not, and to me that's a DNA thing.
It's either in you or it isn't in you.
(08:14):
You either like it and gravitate to it andlove those new client conversations and
love, you know, exploring ways to betterserve your clients and do more for them.
And you get excited about bringingthat business in, or you don't.
And if you don't, that's okay.
You're, if you're not arainmaker, that's okay.
But you know, I've got a firm that I'mworking with now, and they all had that mindset of all the partners had to sell.
(08:38):
You know, first we evaluatedall the partners and everybody
that was involved to see who therainmakers were and who they weren't.
So the first tip I wouldgive the audience is.
You really need to do a deeper diveon the DNA of your organization, just like you would from an accounting
delivery prospect to understand whatyour capabilities are with your clients.
You also wanna understand yourbusiness development capabilities
(09:02):
within your organization to see whatyou have and what you don't have.
Once you do that, I agree with you.
Let's say that you have 20 partnersin a firm, and half of them are rainmakers and half aren't.
Then I would give the 10 rainmakersand the firm a couple things.
One is I would give them a goal.
So that's unique for a lot of firms too,is that they have a revenue goal and
(09:24):
they have a growth goal, but they neverallocate it across all of their people.
They just hope that everybody's gonnadeliver the number right and hope it washes out and it doesn't work that way.
Yep.
So I would work with them on giving thema goal, but then I would give them the right resources, the right coaching.
The right training if theyneed to, so that they can be really efficient with that time.
(09:45):
And what that will mean is they'lldedicate more time to business development, less time to client delivery,
and the other 10 would rebalance theequation a little bit from a technical standpoint so that the firm continues to
grow and everybody is operating in theirarea of genius, for lack of a better word.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I love that.
And everybody's
operating in their area of genius.
(10:06):
And then I think the next thing toconsider though is, you've got 10 rainmakers outta 20, but who's the next
10 rainmakers in the firm that are at themanager level or senior manager level?
Because a lot of those people havethe DNA, but they don't have the
coaching, they don't have the training,and they like to get in the game.
(10:27):
And what I tell firms thereis, Hey, you know, you've gotta incentivize your partners and.
Do business development, and it has tobe meaningful because Randy, if you're a partner in a firm and I'm gonna ask you
to go do more business development orbring in more, and you do, and the firm
grows, I should incentivize you basedon that, based on your contribution.
(10:50):
Similar to somebody that deliversa lot of great technical work.
You're gonna incentivize them for that.
You should do the same forbusiness development all the way
down to anybody in the firm thattouches business development.
Even if they're just originatinga deal, even if they're just
bringing in a referral, theyshould have some skin in the game.
They should be rewarded for that.
And I'm guessing in your firm thatyou do that, but you'd be surprised.
(11:12):
A lot of firms reallydon't have a program like
that.
Yeah, we do.
We're probably a little differentfrom a standpoint though.
We leaned in early.
I mean, our fourth hire was a businessdevelopment person, and so we leaned
in heavy from the beginning that yes,it's, I mean, first year business.
I did pretty much all the sales andwe did very well with a business, but it's not really my skillset.
(11:36):
I can build relationships, I canmeet people, I can explain what
we do, and then I hand them offto somebody that closes the deal.
And so I think we're unique there.
I wanna go back to that.
I love what you said, area ofgenius, because I've been talking
about this concept a lot lately,and I don't use the words genius.
I've been using skills, but I mightsteal your area of genius, but in
(11:58):
addition, not only your area ofgenius, but your area of passion.
I want both of those together becausethen you are in the role you should be.
If you're good at it and you loveit, I mean, what can get better?
And so I think.
What you said earlier is that atevery level and every person in the
organization, I think you need toseek this out in these, that area.
(12:19):
Yes.
Because you're gonna be aefficient machine if people are doing what they love.
And that goes with business developmentthat so many people would put the check mark on the hate it part of that.
Yeah, I'm sure.
And when you find's, okay.
Yeah, exactly.
And it should be.
I don't know if every firmactually realizes that's okay.
And that was the question I wanna ask.
(12:41):
When you do go in and you start consultingwith a firm and you find these, the who the rainmakers are, I'm assuming firms
probably aren't the best at figuringout ways to put the incentives on that.
Sure.
Compared to.
Hey, I need X billable hours.
Is that a struggle sometimes when you gointo firms to, to make that transition from, you know, hey, they don't have
(13:04):
to have as many billable hours, becauselook at the business they're bringing in.
I think it's a, it's a difficulttransition, but it starts with do they really have a growth goal?
Because if they do, they knowthey're gonna be bringing in more clients, more work.
They've gotta be prepared to execute it.
So there's an operationalend to this as well.
Like if you're the COO or the person thatmakes sure that you're hiring the right people, you really need to be hiring
(13:28):
ahead of this work coming so that you canstay balanced and you can make sure that if somebody closes a nice, big client.
You've got the team ready to go to beable to do that work in addition to all the clients that you already have.
So I do think that there's someplanning between business development and operations that has to happen.
And then there is a pivot to takingthe rainmakers, putting them in a better position and asking them to
(13:52):
spend maybe a little more time, maybethey were spending five hours a week
and you need them to spend 10 hoursa week, or whatever the case may be.
We'll figure that out.
But in order for them to spend thatextra time, that means that they might not be signing off on audits or signing
off on tax returns or deliveringconsulting work or whatever they need to do, and they've gotta develop the
(14:14):
team underneath them to be able todo that work that they're selling.
Okay.
And is that part of the, 'cause oneof the things that we've talked about before we start recording is the
efficiency end of business developmentand so that they still probably have the mindset of, I need to get work done too.
So are there like specific tactics thatyou work with people to make this business development as efficient as possible?
(14:37):
There are, I'd say there's acouple of like really big areas for them to get more efficient.
One is my mantra with all my clients,especially accounting firms, is get to know faster the word no uhhuh.
So if you're not going to win the deal,get there as fast as humanly possible.
Don't let it drag out.
(14:58):
Don't let it linger.
Well past the proposal stage,and in many cases, you shouldn't even be doing a proposal.
For a lot of the nos, okay, youshould disqualify them a lot earlier.
It could be that you're notqualified to work with them, right?
But more often it's not gonna bea fit, you know, for them either.
And if you can get to know faster, you'llget all of that work out of your pipeline.
(15:22):
You'll reduce your hours, andthen you can focus on the things that you really can close.
So firms really have to get clear on.
The sales process like that, that'sa big part of what I do, Randy, is most firms do not have a repeatable
business development process fortheir partners and their teams.
So let's get that fixed so thatyou know how to execute it.
(15:46):
You know how to get to know faster,you know how to get to yes faster, because that's the flip side.
Even the deals that you're winning,they may be taking you 90 days.
You can close those deals a lot faster.
If you follow the right process andyou get to the right information and you deliver the right proposal
at the right time, there are waysfor you to take that 90 day cycle and get it down to 70, 75 days.
(16:13):
Or less and just think about howmuch time that gives you back to do
more client work or more businessdevelopment or more whatever.
So that's where the efficiency comesin, is doing a better job of qualifying and disqualifying and do a better job
throughout the sales process from leadall the way through winning or losing the deal to shrink the sales cycle.
(16:33):
Tho, those are two reallybig levers to pull.
Nice to get more efficient.
That's nice and, and I'llask you a question.
Sorry, I'm laughing ahead of time.
So we had this business developmentperson once here and I always said he doesn't take yes for an answer.
I mean, do you ever run into that?
I mean, it's already Yes.
And he's still selling.
(16:53):
They're still selling.
They're still selling.
I'm like, you know, bill, they said, yes.
You, I run into that all the time.
Especially with business developmentpeople, and it's really just a training and coaching thing.
And so I'm gonna flip back to what yousaid about, you know, you, you've hired business successfully, many firms haven't.
They've tried it.
(17:15):
I'm sure you know of a lot of firms,they've hired one or two or three people and they have this carousel Yep.
Of business development people inand out, and it's a huge investment.
You know, it's a very big investment.
If they're not bringing in seven,eight, 900,000, a million or more a
year, it's hard to justify their jobbecause they're not in expensive people.
Right.
(17:35):
They're one of the more highly compensatedpeople you'll have in your entire firm, outside of the partner level.
So.
What I would say is you've gottahave a performance management process to go with a business development
process, and you have to havebusiness development leadership.
And the firm that I'm workingwith now out in Seattle.
(17:55):
They recognized that they wanted to doall the things that I'm helping them to do, but then they really needed
development of their leadership becausetheir leadership is focused on client
work and capacity and utilization andtechnical prowess and all of those things.
But they've never beensales leaders, never.
(18:16):
So how do you just wear that hat thatyou've never worn before and actually
lead and coach a salesperson whenyou've never been a sales leader?
And that salesperson, contrary to popularbelief, where you think you can just wind them up like a doll and let 'em
go, and then they're gonna come backwith business, they have to be managed.
They have to be coached, they have tobe developed, and it has to be something that's specific to what they do.
(18:40):
You can't coach them like you would coach.
A audit manager, it'stwo different animals.
Yep.
You really have to understand that.
So I help firms either find thatleadership or maybe the managing partner is gonna be that leader or
is worn that hat, and I help thatmanaging partner be a much, much better.
Leader in business development.
Yeah, that is a great point because inreality I've got that story where, you know, I told you we hired, you know,
(19:06):
number four, our employee was a businessdevelopment, and we went through, we hired someone else shortly after who
was in business development, triedto set him up as a sales manager.
I didn't have any.
History with doing that, had no ideahow to do it, and we've pretty much struggled for 17 years to fill that role.
That's the role.
(19:27):
We have business development,we have marketing team.
I did it for a while, like ad hoc.
I mean, you can't really do that.
My partner who started Tri-Merit with me,he is been doing it now for the last year.
In between there we brought in likea fractional sales manager, that good guy, but it just didn't fit our culture.
And so that was an issue.
(19:48):
And so I, I love that point that yes,you can bring in business development
people, you can convert your currentteam into business development.
You can give a portion of theirtime to business development, but
you still have to have a leaderthat knows how to manage that role.
And so what you do, this long question toget to, so what you do is you actually go in and whoever that is, like you said, the
(20:09):
managing partner, you're gonna teach themthe skills of being a, a sales manager.
I'm actually gonna sit alongside themin the seat and show them how to coach, show them how to run a one-on-one,
show them how to run a businessdevelopment team meeting, show 'em how to build a plan, all of those things.
(20:30):
I do all of those things untilthe person's comfortable.
The managing partner or the principalis comfortable on their own.
I'll be with them, coachingthem as long as they need me.
Right.
So it sounds like the coaching andshadowing at the same time and seeing how you're doing, and then I'm sure you
have meetings talking about, I like thatpart I think is super important because I think too often in public accounting it's
(20:54):
just a, okay, well Sally and Bob shouldbe bringing in business and nobody really explains how or or what, or even why or
what the goals are or, or what even theclient base is that we want to, look for?
Is that something you go in?
Because I find too often there'sthis shotgun approach and we'll just take anything that comes to us.
I assume for me, having an expertisein the area that you're going to go for
(21:17):
new business, is that something you talkabout in this business development cycle?
It is.
So the process that I've developedfor firms is called Ever Growth,
and part of this unique process,Withgrow is building a playbook.
On the business development team,including partners, so that they all see the ideal client the same way.
(21:39):
They all see the ideal work the same waythey understand how to attract the right clients and how to win the right clients.
They understand how to expand thecurrent clients that they have.
You know, I think a lot of firmsstruggle with that as well.
That's sort of a tangent,but I call it white space.
Randy, where let's say your firmdoes five core services and for
(22:03):
your top hundred clients, youmaybe do two or three on average.
Could you do the other two or three?
Maybe not.
Do you have a process for it?
No.
If you do identify the opportunity,do you know how to do the right
discovery and get to the right needsso that you can unlock that value?
Maybe not, depending on who youare and how good you are at it.
(22:26):
So there's a whole other part ofgrowth to unlock with that process.
But it all goes back to whatwork do you really wanna do?
What are you great at?
What, what are your differentiators?
That's part of the playbook too, Randy is.
What should your story be?
What are your differentiators?
What's your value proposition?
Which is really hard in accountingbecause accounting firms can argue that they all sort of do the same thing.
(22:49):
So if they all sort of do the samething, then it's a race to the bottom on who's the cheapest at the same thing.
Yeah, right.
And that's probably awhole nother podcast.
But you, you really need a playbook sothat everybody is laser focused on how
to go get that niche they really love todo, how to go penetrate that vertical.
Maybe they're.
Experts at government contracting, orthey're really good at CAS work with family offices or whatever their niche is.
(23:16):
How do you really put a playbooktogether so that everybody's kind of
marching to the same beat and they havea common language, a common process?
And a common purpose on reallygoing and serving those clients.
Yes.
And congratulations on saying niche.
It is important.
It's important.
You've got, you've gotta,you've gotta have your thing.
(23:37):
You know that, that's why, youknow, I, I've worked with every type of business to business firm and
company that you could think of, butI'm really focused and dedicated to.
Accounting firms andprofessional services firms.
That's my niche.
Yeah, which is perfect.
I think that just makes things so mucheasier when you're looking to grow, when you're looking to expand, when you're
looking to show the value that youbring because of your expertise, and I think that's a huge part of the sales.
(24:02):
All right.
I think this has been awesome information.
I'd like to keep going, but we are atabout that stopping point, so I, I think we're at a good wrapping point too.
But really when people hear thisand we're talking about business development and things that you should
be doing and niche and making surethat people are in the right role.
Role too when it comes to sales orwhatever their role is in the business.
But if listening to this somebodysays, yes, we're ready to take
(24:25):
our business development to thenext level, what do we need to do?
Is there like a key first step or,or how would you explain to what the next steps are to somebody?
I'm gonna cheat and give you two.
Okay.
Instead of that.
That's
good.
That's
good.
So, so start with doing a really goodassessment of the business development
DNA of everybody that does businessdevelopment and the entire organization.
(24:48):
Yes.
And the tool that I use that Ithink is absolutely best in class.
It's called Objective Management Group.
So I'm trained and certified in that.
So that would be a great first step isuse the objective management group, assess your entire organization to see what you
have and what you don't have in terms ofrainmakers and business development, DNA.
'cause that level setswhere we go from there.
(25:11):
That's perfect.
And then I couple that withtake your process for business development and formalize it.
And document it.
Mm-hmm.
And tie it to CRM, because that's anotherreally big first step for companies is they may have a CRM, they may be using
it, but they really don't have a formalprocess that is anchored to the CRM.
(25:34):
And so everybody's usingthat CRM differently.
Nobody can rely on it, you can't forecast.
So it's a really good first stepto formalize and document and
then train the team on a businessdevelopment step by step process.
Nice.
And that's where I lose myskills as a sales leader of the process, end of things.
Processes are not a skill set I have so
(25:57):
I can understand.
You're not alone, Randy.
You're definitely not alone there.
Alright.
That's why.
And Andy, who is now managing the salesteam, he does, he is a process person, so at least hopefully that goes well.
But we are actively lookingfor that to fill that role.
I've heard that.
It'll be a key part of the next-levelgrowth that you're trying to get to in the firm, and it'll be one of your key leaders
(26:20):
eventually, like I tell, I would tellyou this, that hire somebody in that role that can also be on your leadership team.
Yep.
You want them to be athought leader in your firm.
They're gonna be really important.
So when you're trying to find thatright person, find somebody that's gonna be a great cultural fit,
a great fit with your leadershipteam, and then a great salesman.
(26:43):
No, that's good.
So thank you for that.
But before we end, a couple finalquestions, and I think I might know one of the these answers, but
you know, we've been talking aboutbusiness and business development and accounting firms and sales.
But when you're not thinking work anddoing work, whether you're outside of
work passions, what do you like doingwhen you're not the strategic sales guru?
(27:03):
I've been happily married for 34 yearsto my wife, Missy, and we both have a passion for wine and we love to travel.
And so if there is a greatvineyard to see in Napa, or a great winery to visit in Oregon.
We will probably try to seek itout and make that trip because it's such a great experience.
(27:28):
Wine is so social, it's so personaland it, and the people that create it are amazing people that, you know.
I love meeting them.
As much as I love the wine is meetingthe wine maker, meeting the families that create these great wines.
So love to travel for wine andspend quality time with my wife.
(27:49):
That's awesome.
Those are great things.
And my wife and I are also wine travelers.
In addition, I'm a beer geek too.
And both of those go together the wayyou said with just the people and the experiences and getting to know people.
And just a quick story, becauseit's my show and I can do this,
(28:09):
I my wife and I are currentlyin Sedona, Arizona, and we went to a distillery two days ago.
Sitting at the distillery, somebody at thetable next to us was talking, and I heard him say he lives in Northern California.
My wife and I are gonna bein Sonoma County next week and ends up, he's in Napa.
(28:29):
His wife is the hospitality managerof a large winery that we probably all know out there in Napa.
And just by, you know.
Talking to the guy while you'resitting and having a drink.
He's already gonna set up a, like thisprivate tour of this winery for us.
He's also a cicerone, which is a, likea, the beer version of a sommelier.
(28:51):
So, and I'm a big, big beer fan, so he andI are gonna try to get together and, and share a couple beers when we're out there.
So you meet really cool people, andmaybe that's not the right way to
say it, but associated with alcoholand it's just been a lot of fun.
Yeah.
I'm so jealous.
I'm so jealous.
So you'll have to tell me all about itbecause it sounds like a great connection.
(29:13):
Yeah, it'll be fun.
Alright, and then final thing,Chris, 'cause this is all really
important information that I thinkevery firm should be looking at.
Even if you're one person firm,you have to have a plan for business development and growth.
And so if anybody wants to find out moreinformation, get ahold of you, see what you're doing, where would they look?
So they could find me on LinkedIn.
(29:34):
I'm the only Chris Coccathat I know on LinkedIn.
My website isChrisCoccaSales.com/Evergrowth.
And hey, if anybody's listeningto the podcast and you just wanna
call me, I'm happy to give outmy cell phone, (918) 409-9559.
I love having conversations withpeople that are trying to figure out how they want to grow at scale, and
(29:59):
I'm open to any conversation anytimeI'm passionate about what I do.
And if I can't help you directly, I will.
Find some resource.
I've got a pretty big network of people.
I'm happy to find something that canhelp you get to where you want to go.
It's really important.
Chris, again, thanksfor being on the show.
Thank you so much, Randy.
(30:20):
Thank you for joining ustoday on The Unique CPA.
You can find the show notes fortoday's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit at TheUniqueCPA.com.
Remember to subscribe andleave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app.
And join us next time for more expertiseand insights on The Unique CPA.
(30:43):
ProfessionalProductions.net
Hello, and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
(00:04):
We are committed to creating a thrivingcommunity of accounting professionals
who are physically and mentally healthy,fulfilled, and energized by their work.
Our ultimate goal is to elevatethe reputation of the accounting
profession and vastly improvedthe lives of those in it.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
Today our guest is Chris Cocca.
(00:26):
Chris is president of Strategic Sales,and his firm helps accounting firms and professional service firms grow and scale.
Chris is also, we were arguing,not arguing, we're asking what's
the right way to say this, butformer CPA is the way he listed.
I know some people say inactive CPA,I know some people say recovering CPA.
(00:48):
Chris has a unique view on whatwe're gonna talk about today, being a sales strategist and.
Former CPA, Chris,welcome to The Unique CPA.
Thank you Randy.
I'm really excited tobe on with you today.
Yeah.
And when we met at one of RobBrown's Accounting Influencer round tables, correct?
(01:09):
We did.
We did.
In fact, Rob and I are talking in twodays, so looking forward to, we've been trying to get together for the
last month or two, and finally wefound a date that works so we can, we can see what we can do to continue
to help people in this profession,which is what you're doing as well.
Alright, so let's go.
We are gonna talk about what you'redoing and how you're helping accounting firms, CPA firms bookkeeping for
(01:32):
whatever it is with their, you know,strategic sales and growth and scaling.
And so before we do that, you know, Idid a quick intro, but part of this.
I want you to introduce yourselves froma standpoint of you do have this unique perspective being a CPA or, you know,
former CPA and now the sales guru, whicha lot of people will think don't mesh together well, it's not a skillset.
(01:57):
They think a lot ofpeople feel fits together.
Why don't you give us a littlebackground on how you came into
this role and got this passion forhelp in professional services firms?
Sure, happy to.
So I started my career asa CPA in public accounting.
Back when it was the big eight.
So that kind of dates me.
You're aging yourself.
(02:18):
So right before all the mergers gottogether and actually helped start a tax function at Hagar Clothing company,
Hagar Slacks, for those that wowhave ever bought Hagar in the past, I
have
so young started a tax function there withthe help of people in public accounting.
So really kind of cut my teeth, but prettyearly on I found this love for sales.
(02:40):
I admired the people, the sales guys atHagar, what they could do with clients, how they could help grow the business.
They were well regarded.
They were kind of like the peoplethat were looked on to really
deliver the number for the company,and I wanted to be part of that.
So I was able to move on to Frito-Layheadquarters in Dallas, Texas.
(03:02):
And talked my way into a sales job Igot, I came, they hired me as an account.
Little did they know Iwanted to be a sales guy.
And after a couple years of proving myselfthere, I went to my boss and I said, Hey Deborah, I know this is gonna be crazy.
Probably nobody's ever askedthis of you, but I really would like to get involved with sales.
She opened the door forme the rest of my career.
(03:26):
You know, kind of took a big tangentfrom accounting and finance into sales and 25 years of sales experience.
Later.
Here I am, and I started my firm'sstrategic sales about seven years ago, that I really wanted to work directly
with accounting firms and professionalservices firms and get back to my.
(03:49):
Leverage my knowledge of how hard it'sto be a CPA and do business development, and I really wanted to be closer to
the smaller, mid-size businesses inmy community and just love what I do.
And I've been doing it forseven years, and I wish I would've started this earlier.
I wish I would've jumped in salesearlier, but I wouldn't be here today if I didn't have the path that I had.
(04:12):
Yep.
It's funny you say that 'causethat's the same way I look at things.
You know, what could I have donesomething different in the past?
Could I have changed the path I went down?
Sure.
But I wouldn't want to because ifit would've brought me somewhere
different than I am right now,there's no way I would've done it.
So I agree.
I'm glad to hear you say that.
Alright, so I find this topicreally interesting because.
(04:34):
Public accounting or accounting ingeneral and professional services firms, we often, I find this not
necessarily always has to happen, andI think there's other ways to do it, but it depends on the size of the firm.
But we often have many hats as a partnerin a firm, and as you have, you and I
talked ahead of time as you have coineda seller doer, you know, we are, or.
(04:54):
Doer seller, probably more likelybecause you're probably doing a lot and trying to sell as well, and
not everybody has that skillset,but they also don't have the time.
So let's get into that doer and how youwork with that to help them, you know.
One, be better, and two, probably optimizethe time they have because they don't, you know, as a doer, that's your first
(05:18):
thought is billable hours, which isanother thing I think needs to change.
But that's a tangent we can go down later.
But this whole seller doerconcept, let's get into that.
I think it's a struggle, Randy,for balance, because you're always gonna be pulled into doing.
Client work and taking care of clientsand doing operational related things, making sure that you're at capacity, that
(05:42):
you're, you know, you're delivering theright work to the clients to help them every day, which is absolutely critical.
But at the same time, ifthe firm wants to grow.
Unless you have a big sales team, andRandy, I don't think a lot of accounting firms have really big sales teams.
I think most of them, they haverainmakers, but those rainmakers are partners or senior managers or
(06:04):
directors or somebody that's goingout and finding that new client.
I. Through their network or throughother means, and it's really difficult.
There's very little time for them tobe able to do business development, and what I help firms do is get better with
that limited amount of time becauseyou can't get more time, but you can do more with the time that you have.
(06:26):
I find ways to help them get a lotbetter at the limited amount of.
Yeah, I think, which I think isgreat because that's one thing I've seen in this profession is I really
don't think we're the best at makingthe most efficient use of our time, and partly it's because, well, it's
always been done this way and probablypeople are listening to the shows.
(06:49):
Oh, here goes Randy again, talking aboutbeing better and more efficient, but.
It just is.
It's like, this is the way we've alwaysdone it, so let's keep doing it this way.
Or, you know, partners are always selling,so partners have to do this and that.
Why do partners have to sell?
It's, I assume at some level, you know,there's just not enough resources in the firm to hire in that sales staff.
(07:11):
I think hiring a sales staffor a sales person is something that, that more firms should do.
Or if you are starting a firm.
If you feel comfortable with the businessdevelopment, then start to generate business by making that your role.
You can have, you know, someone else dothe other thing, so this is, I'm going all over the board, but I've got this.
(07:32):
I just have this whole concept, and it'soften this way to be a partner, you have to sell well, you can be really good.
Technician and Yes, but youhave to bring in business.
No.
Why don't we have the rainmakers do that?
So you could have partners do thator why do we not have the outside?
But let's dig into that if you don'tmind, because what's your ideas on that?
(07:52):
Because not everybody can, ormaybe you're gonna tell me.
Everybody can be a salesperson.
I am absolutely not gonna tell you.
Everybody can be a salespersonor do business development.
I do think you need to understand whoyour rainmakers are and who they're not, and to me that's a DNA thing.
It's either in you or it isn't in you.
(08:14):
You either like it and gravitate to it andlove those new client conversations and
love, you know, exploring ways to betterserve your clients and do more for them.
And you get excited about bringingthat business in, or you don't.
And if you don't, that's okay.
You're, if you're not arainmaker, that's okay.
But you know, I've got a firm that I'mworking with now, and they all had that mindset of all the partners had to sell.
(08:38):
You know, first we evaluatedall the partners and everybody
that was involved to see who therainmakers were and who they weren't.
So the first tip I wouldgive the audience is.
You really need to do a deeper diveon the DNA of your organization, just like you would from an accounting
delivery prospect to understand whatyour capabilities are with your clients.
You also wanna understand yourbusiness development capabilities
(09:02):
within your organization to see whatyou have and what you don't have.
Once you do that, I agree with you.
Let's say that you have 20 partnersin a firm, and half of them are rainmakers and half aren't.
Then I would give the 10 rainmakersand the firm a couple things.
One is I would give them a goal.
So that's unique for a lot of firms too,is that they have a revenue goal and
(09:24):
they have a growth goal, but they neverallocate it across all of their people.
They just hope that everybody's gonnadeliver the number right and hope it washes out and it doesn't work that way.
Yep.
So I would work with them on giving thema goal, but then I would give them the right resources, the right coaching.
The right training if theyneed to, so that they can be really efficient with that time.
(09:45):
And what that will mean is they'lldedicate more time to business development, less time to client delivery,
and the other 10 would rebalance theequation a little bit from a technical standpoint so that the firm continues to
grow and everybody is operating in theirarea of genius, for lack of a better word.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I love that.
And everybody's
operating in their area of genius.
(10:06):
And then I think the next thing toconsider though is, you've got 10 rainmakers outta 20, but who's the next
10 rainmakers in the firm that are at themanager level or senior manager level?
Because a lot of those people havethe DNA, but they don't have the
coaching, they don't have the training,and they like to get in the game.
(10:27):
And what I tell firms thereis, Hey, you know, you've gotta incentivize your partners and.
Do business development, and it has tobe meaningful because Randy, if you're a partner in a firm and I'm gonna ask you
to go do more business development orbring in more, and you do, and the firm
grows, I should incentivize you basedon that, based on your contribution.
(10:50):
Similar to somebody that deliversa lot of great technical work.
You're gonna incentivize them for that.
You should do the same forbusiness development all the way
down to anybody in the firm thattouches business development.
Even if they're just originatinga deal, even if they're just
bringing in a referral, theyshould have some skin in the game.
They should be rewarded for that.
And I'm guessing in your firm thatyou do that, but you'd be surprised.
(11:12):
A lot of firms reallydon't have a program like
that.
Yeah, we do.
We're probably a little differentfrom a standpoint though.
We leaned in early.
I mean, our fourth hire was a businessdevelopment person, and so we leaned
in heavy from the beginning that yes,it's, I mean, first year business.
I did pretty much all the sales andwe did very well with a business, but it's not really my skillset.
(11:36):
I can build relationships, I canmeet people, I can explain what
we do, and then I hand them offto somebody that closes the deal.
And so I think we're unique there.
I wanna go back to that.
I love what you said, area ofgenius, because I've been talking
about this concept a lot lately,and I don't use the words genius.
I've been using skills, but I mightsteal your area of genius, but in
(11:58):
addition, not only your area ofgenius, but your area of passion.
I want both of those together becausethen you are in the role you should be.
If you're good at it and you loveit, I mean, what can get better?
And so I think.
What you said earlier is that atevery level and every person in the
organization, I think you need toseek this out in these, that area.
(12:19):
Yes.
Because you're gonna be aefficient machine if people are doing what they love.
And that goes with business developmentthat so many people would put the check mark on the hate it part of that.
Yeah, I'm sure.
And when you find's, okay.
Yeah, exactly.
And it should be.
I don't know if every firmactually realizes that's okay.
And that was the question I wanna ask.
(12:41):
When you do go in and you start consultingwith a firm and you find these, the who the rainmakers are, I'm assuming firms
probably aren't the best at figuringout ways to put the incentives on that.
Sure.
Compared to.
Hey, I need X billable hours.
Is that a struggle sometimes when you gointo firms to, to make that transition from, you know, hey, they don't have
(13:04):
to have as many billable hours, becauselook at the business they're bringing in.
I think it's a, it's a difficulttransition, but it starts with do they really have a growth goal?
Because if they do, they knowthey're gonna be bringing in more clients, more work.
They've gotta be prepared to execute it.
So there's an operationalend to this as well.
Like if you're the COO or the person thatmakes sure that you're hiring the right people, you really need to be hiring
(13:28):
ahead of this work coming so that you canstay balanced and you can make sure that if somebody closes a nice, big client.
You've got the team ready to go to beable to do that work in addition to all the clients that you already have.
So I do think that there's someplanning between business development and operations that has to happen.
And then there is a pivot to takingthe rainmakers, putting them in a better position and asking them to
(13:52):
spend maybe a little more time, maybethey were spending five hours a week
and you need them to spend 10 hoursa week, or whatever the case may be.
We'll figure that out.
But in order for them to spend thatextra time, that means that they might not be signing off on audits or signing
off on tax returns or deliveringconsulting work or whatever they need to do, and they've gotta develop the
(14:14):
team underneath them to be able todo that work that they're selling.
Okay.
And is that part of the, 'cause oneof the things that we've talked about before we start recording is the
efficiency end of business developmentand so that they still probably have the mindset of, I need to get work done too.
So are there like specific tactics thatyou work with people to make this business development as efficient as possible?
(14:37):
There are, I'd say there's acouple of like really big areas for them to get more efficient.
One is my mantra with all my clients,especially accounting firms, is get to know faster the word no uhhuh.
So if you're not going to win the deal,get there as fast as humanly possible.
Don't let it drag out.
(14:58):
Don't let it linger.
Well past the proposal stage,and in many cases, you shouldn't even be doing a proposal.
For a lot of the nos, okay, youshould disqualify them a lot earlier.
It could be that you're notqualified to work with them, right?
But more often it's not gonna bea fit, you know, for them either.
And if you can get to know faster, you'llget all of that work out of your pipeline.
(15:22):
You'll reduce your hours, andthen you can focus on the things that you really can close.
So firms really have to get clear on.
The sales process like that, that'sa big part of what I do, Randy, is most firms do not have a repeatable
business development process fortheir partners and their teams.
So let's get that fixed so thatyou know how to execute it.
(15:46):
You know how to get to know faster,you know how to get to yes faster, because that's the flip side.
Even the deals that you're winning,they may be taking you 90 days.
You can close those deals a lot faster.
If you follow the right process andyou get to the right information and you deliver the right proposal
at the right time, there are waysfor you to take that 90 day cycle and get it down to 70, 75 days.
(16:13):
Or less and just think about howmuch time that gives you back to do
more client work or more businessdevelopment or more whatever.
So that's where the efficiency comesin, is doing a better job of qualifying and disqualifying and do a better job
throughout the sales process from leadall the way through winning or losing the deal to shrink the sales cycle.
(16:33):
Tho, those are two reallybig levers to pull.
Nice to get more efficient.
That's nice and, and I'llask you a question.
Sorry, I'm laughing ahead of time.
So we had this business developmentperson once here and I always said he doesn't take yes for an answer.
I mean, do you ever run into that?
I mean, it's already Yes.
And he's still selling.
(16:53):
They're still selling.
They're still selling.
I'm like, you know, bill, they said, yes.
You, I run into that all the time.
Especially with business developmentpeople, and it's really just a training and coaching thing.
And so I'm gonna flip back to what yousaid about, you know, you, you've hired business successfully, many firms haven't.
They've tried it.
(17:15):
I'm sure you know of a lot of firms,they've hired one or two or three people and they have this carousel Yep.
Of business development people inand out, and it's a huge investment.
You know, it's a very big investment.
If they're not bringing in seven,eight, 900,000, a million or more a
year, it's hard to justify their jobbecause they're not in expensive people.
Right.
(17:35):
They're one of the more highly compensatedpeople you'll have in your entire firm, outside of the partner level.
So.
What I would say is you've gottahave a performance management process to go with a business development
process, and you have to havebusiness development leadership.
And the firm that I'm workingwith now out in Seattle.
(17:55):
They recognized that they wanted to doall the things that I'm helping them to do, but then they really needed
development of their leadership becausetheir leadership is focused on client
work and capacity and utilization andtechnical prowess and all of those things.
But they've never beensales leaders, never.
(18:16):
So how do you just wear that hat thatyou've never worn before and actually
lead and coach a salesperson whenyou've never been a sales leader?
And that salesperson, contrary to popularbelief, where you think you can just wind them up like a doll and let 'em
go, and then they're gonna come backwith business, they have to be managed.
They have to be coached, they have tobe developed, and it has to be something that's specific to what they do.
(18:40):
You can't coach them like you would coach.
A audit manager, it'stwo different animals.
Yep.
You really have to understand that.
So I help firms either find thatleadership or maybe the managing partner is gonna be that leader or
is worn that hat, and I help thatmanaging partner be a much, much better.
Leader in business development.
Yeah, that is a great point because inreality I've got that story where, you know, I told you we hired, you know,
(19:06):
number four, our employee was a businessdevelopment, and we went through, we hired someone else shortly after who
was in business development, triedto set him up as a sales manager.
I didn't have any.
History with doing that, had no ideahow to do it, and we've pretty much struggled for 17 years to fill that role.
That's the role.
(19:27):
We have business development,we have marketing team.
I did it for a while, like ad hoc.
I mean, you can't really do that.
My partner who started Tri-Merit with me,he is been doing it now for the last year.
In between there we brought in likea fractional sales manager, that good guy, but it just didn't fit our culture.
And so that was an issue.
(19:48):
And so I, I love that point that yes,you can bring in business development
people, you can convert your currentteam into business development.
You can give a portion of theirtime to business development, but
you still have to have a leaderthat knows how to manage that role.
And so what you do, this long question toget to, so what you do is you actually go in and whoever that is, like you said, the
(20:09):
managing partner, you're gonna teach themthe skills of being a, a sales manager.
I'm actually gonna sit alongside themin the seat and show them how to coach, show them how to run a one-on-one,
show them how to run a businessdevelopment team meeting, show 'em how to build a plan, all of those things.
(20:30):
I do all of those things untilthe person's comfortable.
The managing partner or the principalis comfortable on their own.
I'll be with them, coachingthem as long as they need me.
Right.
So it sounds like the coaching andshadowing at the same time and seeing how you're doing, and then I'm sure you
have meetings talking about, I like thatpart I think is super important because I think too often in public accounting it's
(20:54):
just a, okay, well Sally and Bob shouldbe bringing in business and nobody really explains how or or what, or even why or
what the goals are or, or what even theclient base is that we want to, look for?
Is that something you go in?
Because I find too often there'sthis shotgun approach and we'll just take anything that comes to us.
I assume for me, having an expertisein the area that you're going to go for
(21:17):
new business, is that something you talkabout in this business development cycle?
It is.
So the process that I've developedfor firms is called Ever Growth,
and part of this unique process,Withgrow is building a playbook.
On the business development team,including partners, so that they all see the ideal client the same way.
(21:39):
They all see the ideal work the same waythey understand how to attract the right clients and how to win the right clients.
They understand how to expand thecurrent clients that they have.
You know, I think a lot of firmsstruggle with that as well.
That's sort of a tangent,but I call it white space.
Randy, where let's say your firmdoes five core services and for
(22:03):
your top hundred clients, youmaybe do two or three on average.
Could you do the other two or three?
Maybe not.
Do you have a process for it?
No.
If you do identify the opportunity,do you know how to do the right
discovery and get to the right needsso that you can unlock that value?
Maybe not, depending on who youare and how good you are at it.
(22:26):
So there's a whole other part ofgrowth to unlock with that process.
But it all goes back to whatwork do you really wanna do?
What are you great at?
What, what are your differentiators?
That's part of the playbook too, Randy is.
What should your story be?
What are your differentiators?
What's your value proposition?
Which is really hard in accountingbecause accounting firms can argue that they all sort of do the same thing.
(22:49):
So if they all sort of do the samething, then it's a race to the bottom on who's the cheapest at the same thing.
Yeah, right.
And that's probably awhole nother podcast.
But you, you really need a playbook sothat everybody is laser focused on how
to go get that niche they really love todo, how to go penetrate that vertical.
Maybe they're.
Experts at government contracting, orthey're really good at CAS work with family offices or whatever their niche is.
(23:16):
How do you really put a playbooktogether so that everybody's kind of
marching to the same beat and they havea common language, a common process?
And a common purpose on reallygoing and serving those clients.
Yes.
And congratulations on saying niche.
It is important.
It's important.
You've got, you've gotta,you've gotta have your thing.
(23:37):
You know that, that's why, youknow, I, I've worked with every type of business to business firm and
company that you could think of, butI'm really focused and dedicated to.
Accounting firms andprofessional services firms.
That's my niche.
Yeah, which is perfect.
I think that just makes things so mucheasier when you're looking to grow, when you're looking to expand, when you're
looking to show the value that youbring because of your expertise, and I think that's a huge part of the sales.
(24:02):
All right.
I think this has been awesome information.
I'd like to keep going, but we are atabout that stopping point, so I, I think we're at a good wrapping point too.
But really when people hear thisand we're talking about business development and things that you should
be doing and niche and making surethat people are in the right role.
Role too when it comes to sales orwhatever their role is in the business.
But if listening to this somebodysays, yes, we're ready to take
(24:25):
our business development to thenext level, what do we need to do?
Is there like a key first step or,or how would you explain to what the next steps are to somebody?
I'm gonna cheat and give you two.
Okay.
Instead of that.
That's
good.
That's
good.
So, so start with doing a really goodassessment of the business development
DNA of everybody that does businessdevelopment and the entire organization.
(24:48):
Yes.
And the tool that I use that Ithink is absolutely best in class.
It's called Objective Management Group.
So I'm trained and certified in that.
So that would be a great first step isuse the objective management group, assess your entire organization to see what you
have and what you don't have in terms ofrainmakers and business development, DNA.
'cause that level setswhere we go from there.
(25:11):
That's perfect.
And then I couple that withtake your process for business development and formalize it.
And document it.
Mm-hmm.
And tie it to CRM, because that's anotherreally big first step for companies is they may have a CRM, they may be using
it, but they really don't have a formalprocess that is anchored to the CRM.
(25:34):
And so everybody's usingthat CRM differently.
Nobody can rely on it, you can't forecast.
So it's a really good first stepto formalize and document and
then train the team on a businessdevelopment step by step process.
Nice.
And that's where I lose myskills as a sales leader of the process, end of things.
Processes are not a skill set I have so
(25:57):
I can understand.
You're not alone, Randy.
You're definitely not alone there.
Alright.
That's why.
And Andy, who is now managing the salesteam, he does, he is a process person, so at least hopefully that goes well.
But we are actively lookingfor that to fill that role.
I've heard that.
It'll be a key part of the next-levelgrowth that you're trying to get to in the firm, and it'll be one of your key leaders
(26:20):
eventually, like I tell, I would tellyou this, that hire somebody in that role that can also be on your leadership team.
Yep.
You want them to be athought leader in your firm.
They're gonna be really important.
So when you're trying to find thatright person, find somebody that's gonna be a great cultural fit,
a great fit with your leadershipteam, and then a great salesman.
(26:43):
No, that's good.
So thank you for that.
But before we end, a couple finalquestions, and I think I might know one of the these answers, but
you know, we've been talking aboutbusiness and business development and accounting firms and sales.
But when you're not thinking work anddoing work, whether you're outside of
work passions, what do you like doingwhen you're not the strategic sales guru?
(27:03):
I've been happily married for 34 yearsto my wife, Missy, and we both have a passion for wine and we love to travel.
And so if there is a greatvineyard to see in Napa, or a great winery to visit in Oregon.
We will probably try to seek itout and make that trip because it's such a great experience.
(27:28):
Wine is so social, it's so personaland it, and the people that create it are amazing people that, you know.
I love meeting them.
As much as I love the wine is meetingthe wine maker, meeting the families that create these great wines.
So love to travel for wine andspend quality time with my wife.
(27:49):
That's awesome.
Those are great things.
And my wife and I are also wine travelers.
In addition, I'm a beer geek too.
And both of those go together the wayyou said with just the people and the experiences and getting to know people.
And just a quick story, becauseit's my show and I can do this,
(28:09):
I my wife and I are currentlyin Sedona, Arizona, and we went to a distillery two days ago.
Sitting at the distillery, somebody at thetable next to us was talking, and I heard him say he lives in Northern California.
My wife and I are gonna bein Sonoma County next week and ends up, he's in Napa.
(28:29):
His wife is the hospitality managerof a large winery that we probably all know out there in Napa.
And just by, you know.
Talking to the guy while you'resitting and having a drink.
He's already gonna set up a, like thisprivate tour of this winery for us.
He's also a cicerone, which is a, likea, the beer version of a sommelier.
(28:51):
So, and I'm a big, big beer fan, so he andI are gonna try to get together and, and share a couple beers when we're out there.
So you meet really cool people, andmaybe that's not the right way to
say it, but associated with alcoholand it's just been a lot of fun.
Yeah.
I'm so jealous.
I'm so jealous.
So you'll have to tell me all about itbecause it sounds like a great connection.
(29:13):
Yeah, it'll be fun.
Alright, and then final thing,Chris, 'cause this is all really
important information that I thinkevery firm should be looking at.
Even if you're one person firm,you have to have a plan for business development and growth.
And so if anybody wants to find out moreinformation, get ahold of you, see what you're doing, where would they look?
So they could find me on LinkedIn.
(29:34):
I'm the only Chris Coccathat I know on LinkedIn.
My website isChrisCoccaSales.com/Evergrowth.
And hey, if anybody's listeningto the podcast and you just wanna
call me, I'm happy to give outmy cell phone, (918) 409-9559.
I love having conversations withpeople that are trying to figure out how they want to grow at scale, and
(29:59):
I'm open to any conversation anytimeI'm passionate about what I do.
And if I can't help you directly, I will.
Find some resource.
I've got a pretty big network of people.
I'm happy to find something that canhelp you get to where you want to go.
It's really important.
Chris, again, thanksfor being on the show.
Thank you so much, Randy.
(30:20):
Thank you for joining ustoday on The Unique CPA.
You can find the show notes fortoday's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit at TheUniqueCPA.com.
Remember to subscribe andleave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app.
And join us next time for more expertiseand insights on The Unique CPA.
(30:43):
ProfessionalProductions.net
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.