February 18, 2025 • 42 mins
Randy Crabtree is joined by Dave Lane, founder of Grove & Grain Leadership, on Episode 199 of The Unique CPA. As a business executive, leader coach, keynote speaker, and fractional COO, Dave discusses his journey and philosophy around the concept of being a “force of awesome.” He elaborates on the importance of self-awareness, vulnerability, and identifying your true self for both personal fulfillment and professional success. Sharing methodologies and tools he uses, such as the “Listen, Reflect, and Ask” model, Dave seeks to help individuals and teams overcome challenges, improve their emotional intelligence, and foster a more cohesive and effective work environment, with focuses on the impact personal growth can have on business outcomes, and the importance of integrating personal passions with professional duties.
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
We're committed to creating a thrivingcommunity of accounting professionals
who are physically and mentally healthy,fulfilled, and energized by their work.
Our ultimate goal is to elevatethe reputation of the accounting
profession and vastly improvethe lives of those in it.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
(00:24):
Today, our guest is Dave Lane.
Dave is founder of Grove & Grain,which I love the name, leadership, Grove & Grain leadership.
He is a business executive and leadershipcoach, a keynote speaker, and actually a fractional COO for a CPA firm.
And that's, Pretty muchprobably how I met him.
We were, he was with that leader ofthat firm out in Vegas at a conference.
(00:46):
We were all attending and got to meetthem there, which is a lot of fun.
And in addition to all that, Ilove Dave's, I don't know what you would say his tagline, his model.
He tells everybody they're a force forawesome, which I think is pretty cool.
Dave, welcome to the Unique CPA.
Yeah.
Thanks, Randy.
I'm stoked to be here.
Yeah.
Before we even get into it, I want to go,I didn't even think about this, but I'm going to break down that force of awesome.
(01:09):
Where did that start?
How'd that come about?
so yeah, it, decades, but itreally took shape, I would say probably about 10 years ago.
So I grew up on a board, skateboard,surfboard, snowboard, you name it.
It was, I was on it.
And so like, Like was always like partof just my vernacular, but then as I was going through different life experiences
(01:34):
and then going through career, theawesome started to wane a little much and things just started to be less awesome.
Unless you had this hobby that youhad time and money and energy for.
But then I have this belief that everysingle human being is unique and has
gifts and we can learn from every singleperson and that's awesome in itself.
(01:58):
And so when you're able to actuallyuntap that, that is the force of awesome.
Like when you are able to actually livein your like true self, be your unique.
Awesomeness that is reallycool and really awesome.
So that's how it comes to be.
And I just want to get peopleexcited about being themselves and being themselves.
That's key because that's wheretheir awesomeness comes through when they're able to be themselves.
(02:22):
We can dig into that later.
I guess a little bit, but before we,and now I already sidetracked this once,
which will happen quite often whilewe're talking today, probably, but.
I introduced you and the company,but why don't you dig a little deeper into what you do and Grove & Grain.
And I want to hear where the name camefrom, but we can save that part for later.
(02:42):
Yeah.
So what I currently do is I'm abusiness executive leadership coach, consultant, and fractional COO.
And what I do is I help smallto mid market business owners and leaders and their teams.
Like get unstuck fromsome sort of situation.
I help them identify like what mattersmost to them and not just their business, but in their lives and then
(03:03):
operationalize and integrate thatinto the fabric of their company.
And then orchestrate that monitor, measureit, and then I walk alongside them.
So I'm kind of this trusted advisor,partner, person for seasons.
And then you go and you flourish and live.
So that's, that's what I do in a nutshell.
That's what you
do in a nutshell.
(03:23):
And then the name, wheredid that come from?
Cause it's really cool.
Yeah.
So the name is a picture word.
And the name comes from an experiencethat I had with my wife, and I've always been fascinated with trees.
So, I live in the Pacific Northwest,and there's a lot of trees here.
Yes, there are.
But, it came from an image that Ireceived, and I had this image of trees, and the roots are actually underneath
(03:47):
the ground, are connected to other roots,and they're connected to other trees.
Now, when I look at a team, or a business,or an organization, Like how strong that
team or organization is, is basicallyby the strongest or weakest person.
And so the whole team or grove.
So the grove is a picture word for a teamor an organization needs to have like teamwork, team development and awareness.
(04:13):
So that's the grove.
The grain is I need selfawareness and self development.
So the individual grain of a person andthe knots and the different colors and the textures that makes us our unique self.
And so it's a picture word of like, Ineed each other, like healthy leaders know that they need other people to, in
order to be successful and move towardsthe vision that they have, and they need self awareness and self development.
(04:37):
That's where that name comes from.
Nice.
Well, when we first met, I don't evenknow the month, whatever the month was, we shouldn't even talk months
because we don't want to, we wantto make sure when this comes out, I think it'll be out fairly shortly.
Sometime last year.
It was sometime last year.
Exactly.
I was telling you before westarted recording, I think I'm a little out of practice right now.
(04:59):
I haven't recorded a lot lately.
So actually you sat in a session thatI did and I really appreciate that.
But after the session, we started talkingand we realized we have a lot of the same passions, a lot of the same ideas.
Even I was looking through yourLinkedIn posts before we started recording and I'm like, He's right.
That's spot on.
That's exactly everythingyou were posting.
(05:20):
I'm going, yeah, this guy gets it.
He knows he's it.
Thank you.
And so a lot of it comes from, youknow, first off a few different things, but a lot of it comes from for me and
that session I was doing was, you know,cultivating that people first culture.
And I know people are a passionof yours and helping people.
And so why don't we getinto, you know, what that is.
How do you see working with peopleand what do you try to do when you
(05:43):
work with people to make sure thatthey are this force of awesome?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so thank you for saying that,that I feel honored, that you just said that that's, it's hitting me.
so how I do that.
I'm going to go a little bit backof like how I got to get to do this.
And so the reason, like the why, andwe talked a little bit about this before we started recording is that.
(06:07):
There's a large divorce rate in theUnited States, 51 percent I believe it is.
The Surgeon General, I forget how manyyears ago, created this white paper that, you know, anxiety, depression,
loneliness is on the rise, and it's notstopping, and it's going at greater rates.
There's a great book that cameout for any parent out there, The Anxious Generation is a great book.
(06:27):
Scary as all get out, but it actually islike it's, you get to look at the mirror and you get to do something about it.
Long story short, when I was abouta year into my career at Intel, I had a mentor of mine that said, Hey,
look to someone about 10, 15 yearsolder than you, that you can kind of emulate, take what you like from them.
(06:47):
Don't take what you don't likefrom them and try to emulate.
And I look, I was looking around,I was searching and seeking, and I really had a hard time finding anyone.
A lot of sickness, a lot of death, alot of overweightness, a lot of divorce, and it was heavily engineering, as
I was an engineer to start out with,and I just, I didn't understand this.
(07:11):
I'm going to rewind alittle bit beyond that.
I've come from a Holocaust survivingfamily, and I have had this
question inside of me of how couldpeople do this to one another?
How?
It just seems so far out to me.
But if I go and examine and I, and thisis like years and years of therapy and
other work, we all have the capabilityof actually doing that to one another.
(07:35):
That's crazy.
I mean, I, I guess you, I guess I canprobably see it, but man, just to think that can potentially be in everybody.
It's weird.
It is weird.
It's weird, but we have choice.
So that's the part where we havemade decisions over our lifetime that have moved us in a certain direction.
(07:57):
And others have made other choices.
So, we have choice.
And so, I want to helpother people recognize.
That they actually do have agency.
Awesome.
And that's where a lot of this comesdown to is that and so I work with a lot of business owners and their teams and
the leadership teams of understanding,okay, what do you really care about in your, not just your business.
(08:21):
But in your life, and how are youmaking decisions based off of that?
Are you, or are you afraid?
And most people are actually quitescared to make decisions that are, that's deep down in their heart and soul that
they know is like, this is the truestsense of who I am, as it's really scary for me because they've been taught.
(08:41):
Early on in life, that isactually dangerous for them to do.
That's crazy.
I think I need you to clarify that.
So, so people won't make thedecisions that they really should be
making because there's a fear builtin that they're not supposed to?
Right.
Is it a selfish thing?
What is it?
(09:02):
Yeah, so I mean, it's a complicatedthing to go and examine.
Yeah.
But, so I, follow me.
The way that my, that I think about it isthat, okay, If we're working two thirds
of our lives, divorce is at this rate,anxiety, depression is at the rate it is.
If you go look at Gallup, McKinsey,Gartner, all the studies show that engagement is not good.
(09:25):
Yes.
That people are relatively unhappy, and Iknow that this is heavy in the accounting industry, and I know that's one of the
reasons why, like, your heart and whatyou're doing, you're so passionate about.
But, like, if you go through that, Weare making decisions to be successful and to move forward in something
that was prescribed for us, notsomething that's like deep down inside of us, and it is really personal.
(09:50):
And we are afraid of that integration.
So the integration, when we saythat, like they can just, I mean, I talk about this all the time.
You have outside of work passions.
I want people to be able tointegrate those passions into what they're doing at work.
Now.
They, they can at some level, maybethey can't at some level, but you, there are things, let's do it this way.
(10:12):
There are things you love to doand there's things you're good at.
And then there's things that you hateto do and there's things you're bad at.
And so why not concentrate on thosethings that you're good at and you love doing, and that probably somehow
integrates into these outside of workpassions you have because you love it.
And so even if it's, even it's an insideof work passion, it becomes an outside of work passion because you love doing this.
(10:37):
And so, people just don't see thatthis is the path they should be on.
Am I on track?
Yeah, you're getting, you'regetting on track, yeah.
And a lot of times, people aren'tactually taught these things.
That is actually possible.
Alright, alright.
So, that's another element of this.
Is that, fortunately, like somepeople are taught these things.
(10:57):
Like, hey, you havecertain passions in life.
You have certain skills.
And go marry that with a career.
Go marry that with hobbies or whatever.
And that's awesome.
But some people don't have theluxury of figuring those things out.
Right.
Now, this isn't just aboutmatching passion with skill set.
Okay.
This is also understanding, like, atthe truest sense of who I am, I'm living that out and expressing that through
(11:24):
my work, through my hobbies, through myrelationships, in all aspects of life.
And so, when I work with clientson this, I show them a model.
This is my coaching model.
It's that leadership startswith self leadership.
So we're first going to examine yourself.
Then do you have a family?
And then do you have a team?
(11:45):
And then do you have an organization?
And then do you have a community?
And so it works outward.
It's inward to outward work.
And that's how this has to start.
Because you could startat the third rung on that.
Yeah.
It's only going to go so far.
Right.
And it's not going to be sustainable.
Right.
And then, so, if they do this, ifthey start with themselves, and I love that, that eventually leads them into
(12:11):
a leadership, they're already in aleadership role, let's say, and now they've used this skill that they just
learned that, hey, I need to work onmyself first and then, you know, expand
out that circle or however you lookat it, the next step along the way.
How does that, yeah.
I'm excited and I can't get the words out.
How does that, how do they passthat on to the people they work with to help them do that same thing?
(12:34):
Dude, love your question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause it's only so good if like, itonly goes so far if it's just you.
Right.
You gotta like, we're meant to bein relationship with other people.
Yeah, that's how we are created.
And so this actually comes into a lotof the work that I do with clients and that a lot of the work that leaders, I
actually try my best to like, I don'tknow if it's preach or whatever, but it's like, Hey, you people are following you.
(13:01):
And you need to think aboutthe relationships that you have and manage that intentionally.
And so this is not just aboutleadership development, it's relational development as well.
And so you actually have to beintentional about how you do that.
It's like, okay, I'm, mycup's getting filled up.
Great.
Now, how do I go fillup other people's cups?
(13:21):
How do I make sure that this Team is aswell functioning as possible and that we know each other and we understand
When sally or joe are having an offday We know what that means and we know how to actually support that And step
in and then when we seek out a visionor a goal for ourselves We know how to coalesce and debate and have conflict.
(13:44):
Oh, yeah, and then move ina direction that is Most beneficial for the greater good.
And I love what you just said there,because we actually just talked about that this past week in our company annual state
of the union address, where, you know,we had something out there that kind of shows that we, Hey, we want to be this
(14:06):
cohesive unit and, you know, all worktogether and avoid, and it didn't really
say avoid conflict, but it kind of lookedlike that's what we were trying to say.
And so we clarified that right away.
No, we understand.
We want a diverse group ofpeople working here because one, we all learn from each other.
You all have great ideas.
If everybody was a cloneof me, we would go nowhere.
(14:29):
And so having this diversity,you think of DEI, diversity.
And, but in addition to that diversityof mindset, different faith, diversity
of ideas, diversity of skills,diversity of passions of whatever.
And when you put that together.
Everybody's going tohave a different idea.
You know, is that conflict?
(14:50):
No, I think we don't want conflict to thelevel that people are screaming at each other, but conflict, because there's a
difference of ideas and somewhere in thereis the perfect, or at least as close as you can get to what we need to be doing.
So do you teach thatwhen you're with groups?
I mean, this conflict discussion you have.
I want to hear more about this.
(15:11):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, cause we deal with conflict everysingle day, like thousand times a day.
And conflict really is just yourneeds or expectations not being met.
Okay.
And conflict arises and itcan be at different levels.
And this is where I actually teachmajority of my clients, this one tool called listen, reflect, and ask.
And that's something that I learnedfrom my colleagues back when I worked at Intel, my coaching colleagues.
(15:35):
And it's a fundamental coaching model.
And so when you're in this conflict,like how are you actually listening?
Like most of the time we are actuallylistening to respond, find the hole.
Right.
You know, give our wisdom out there.
How do I make them think theway I'm thinking rather than
listening?
Correct.
Yep.
Yeah.
And so when you're in conflict,like, and this is where I teach
(15:57):
them not only to use this for otherpeople, but use it for yourself.
So are you listening tothe voice inside your head?
Are you listening to what you're feeling?
And how do you reflect that back, notonly to yourself, but to other people?
And then how do you ask an open endedquestion that furthers the conversation?
Alright.
And that's, say it again,listen, wait, the three things.
(16:18):
It's listen, reflect, and ask.
And it's a circular thing.
And so, it's a, this is afundamental coaching model.
So all coaches willuse this type of model.
No, only you.
In my mind, it's only you.
Yeah, I hope, I hope it's not just me.
If it's just me, then,oh boy, that's a problem.
(16:38):
No, it's not, it's not just me.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
But in conflict, sothere are certain steps.
There's always the nonviolentcommunication where it's saying, I
feel that when this happens, like intrying to put yourself on a balcony.
You know, third person language.
And so you go to a third person.
It seems like we're, or that thissituation it's happening and here's what I observe and blah, blah, blah.
(17:03):
What do you observe?
And then you put it onthe second person, like.
What do you think?
Right.
And then you go into here's what I need.
So there's a method called 3 2 1for conflict resolution, where it's third person perspective, second
person, and then you're, then you,your first person voice in that.
Yeah, I'm probably, Ithink I'm okay at this.
(17:23):
I think I wasn't in the past.
And, you know, we had a, we started anew service line about four years ago.
And we were, you know, it was.
A little bit of like, Hey,we got to build this out.
We got to figure out how this work.
And I kept like saying,no, I'm right on this.
And then I sat back and then, soit wasn't, I guess I reflected, but I didn't reflect immediately.
(17:46):
And then after a few weeks, I'm like.
You know, they're right.
They're sending us down the rightpath by what they're saying.
And it took me forever, well,forever, two weeks to realize that.
But I was, I guess, proudof myself that I did.
Like, okay, I don't have tobe the one with the answers.
There's, we have so many smart peoplehere and they have better ideas than me.
And that was a huge, kindof a light bulb for me.
(18:09):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's awesome that you,yeah, you experienced that.
So that you showedvulnerability to your team.
It took you a couple ofweeks and, and that's great.
A lot of times, peopledon't do that at all.
And so, what I believe is that, like,could you create a culture where that two weeks turns into seconds or minutes?
(18:32):
Right.
And
so, that.
I think we're pretty good at that.
I honestly I'm not that activewith our team that much because
I'm out on an island a little bit,just out speaking all the time.
But when we are, it justseems we've progressed so much and we've integrated EOS.
And I think that helps with stuff.
(18:52):
And EOS has a version, I'm goingbackwards now, but a version of that
love it, hate it, bad at it, good atit, that EOS has their own version.
I like this one because it's a friendof mine, Sean Duncan told me about the love and hate it, good at, bad at.
And so one thing, and I guess I'm goingbackwards here, but one thing that I'm saying that we need to do internally,
(19:14):
and I do presentations now, and I, Iurge people to do this is, and this is kind of the vulnerability you just talked
about, is take this self assessment,very simple, list all your tasks, go through it, find the love it, good at
it, find the hate it, bad at it, andthen, you know, obviously one of them is where you want to spend your time,
the other one you delegate, eliminate,Automate, outsource, whatever it is.
(19:38):
And so now what I'm saying to usinternally and to people when I'm talking to this, when you do that, do it
for yourself first, but then share theresults with people, you know, because people are going to be afraid to take.
This self assessment because they'renot going to want to say I'm bad at
something and they're not going towant to say I don't like something.
(19:58):
Yeah, but
when you do that and you find thethings that kind of like you're saying, you know, finding your true self When
you find your true self and your truepassions, there's gonna be people that
fall in this You know bad at it andhate at it that you don't like that.
They it's in there Loveit and good at it, right?
And so when you do this now youjust find people's Happy spot with what they want to do at work.
(20:22):
Sorry.
I'm going on a tangent now.
You're spot on.
You're spot on.
And I think it's a little bit of atangent, but I think it's related to all of this where my mind goes with this is.
So we were talking about vulnerability.
Yes.
Vulnerability is the whole point.
Yep.
If I can get the red threadthrough it's vulnerability.
Yes.
Yep.
Now I'm going to share a story.
(20:44):
So I was part of a. Largeleadership development program.
We ran over 300 people through itand the impacts were in the tens
of thousands across the globe at alarge global Fortune 100 company.
What we started doing was thateach leader that was part of this program in our cohorts, there
were cohorts of 10 to 12, but theyeach received one on one coaching.
(21:05):
What we did at every single cohortsession and every single one on one
coaching session was that we didan emotional check in with them.
We actually provided, we used atool called the mood Meter, which Marc Brackett from Yale created
wonderful tool and it provides youlanguage of, what am I feeling?
And it was as simple as that.
It's like, we just want youjust do a one word check-in.
(21:27):
That's what we called it, oneword check-in of how you're feeling, how you're showing up.
And they would just say, whatthey're saying is spitball.
And that just provided thislittle air, like room to breathe.
Like, oh, I don't have to hidethis in that I'm really frustrated.
Just like, cause I just gotout of a meeting and the vice presidents just reamed me.
(21:49):
Like I'm fuming inside.
Right.
And now I have to show up to this.
And so how often do we go through ourdays where we're actually just like we're holding on to this thing and so like
you're in conflict, you're trying tocome up with this new idea or this new membership service or whatever, and you're
feeling this like uneasiness, but you holdit in, you hold it in, you hold it in.
(22:12):
And if a team and a leadershipteam had that practice.
It was, it was like, Oh yeah, I justwant to do a quick check in 30 seconds.
That's it based off ofthis member service line.
What are you feeling?
Go.
And then it's all it is is data.
It's just data.
Right.
But this, I like the idea of thisbecause we have, and they wrote me
in and to getting involved in anL10 meeting recently with our EOS.
(22:36):
At the beginning ofthat, everybody shares a.
Hey, you know, tell us a personalpositive from the last week and a business positive from the last week.
I think adding to that the moodcheck in is probably not a bad
idea just to see where everybodyis going into this meeting.
Would that make sense?
So, with the CPA firm that I'm workingwith, we are implementing EOS ourselves.
(23:01):
Okay.
We do a level 10, L10 meeting.
Yep.
And the thing that we are recognizingthat we're missing And the EOS is amazing.
It's wonderful, but it does, it doesleave this stuff out a little bit.
In my mind, I think that there are,there's room to provide a space for this, but this requires a certain level of.
(23:25):
Emotional maturity from thepeople in the room, right?
True, true.
And so that's the thing that I thinkis, it could be a little bit dangerous.
And so that's where having a coach ora consultant that's walking alongside with you that can hold that space.
Right.
Provides that value of like.
(23:45):
Hey, you're going, like, wesaid 30 seconds, we said one word check, and you gave us 10.
We need to move on.
Like, can you respect that for everybody?
And that is kind of like whatthe L10 leader's role is, too, to keep it on track, I think.
I'm not fighting theEOS, I think it's good.
I just, like I said earlier,I stay in my own lane.
(24:06):
And so when they got me inthis, I'm like, all right, sure.
It's our marketing and sales L10, whichI'm actively involved with marketing.
So that makes sense and sales.
So that makes sense, but yeah, it's good.
So, all right.
I'm going on a tangent now.
So how are you and you enjoyingthe EOS implementation?
I am.
So I was a trained engineerand I like, I like process.
(24:27):
I like structure.
It provides, it's helpful.
My nature is not that like you and Icould probably I'm like, can I just get on a plane and fly over and let's
go hang out like all day long and justsee where that goes, but that's my nature me too, but I know that is really
good for me to have this structure inplace and I know that just look at the statistics of businesses, how they fail.
(24:52):
It's mainly because ofpoor structure and process.
And so we are a very small company.
It's a collective CPA and advisors,very small as a seven people total, but there's a plan for large growth.
And we know that we need to putstructure in place in order for us to be able to not just go insane.
Like we, like the culture and thevalues that we have are so like, they're very people oriented.
(25:19):
And so.
We want to make sure that we areliving that out, and we know what got us here is not going to get us
to the next step, and EOS, I believe,is helping us work through that.
I can see that.
Are you finding conflicts with EOS andwhat you've thought, you know, like helping people find their true selves,
(25:40):
and you know, people and their familiesare important, and business comes in, and I, is there any conflict with What
you have traditionally believed andthought and implementation of EOS.
No,
no, I've gone for, from my experience.
So started as an engineerprogram management, then I ran product teams for a long time.
(26:01):
And then I became an internalexecutive leadership coach.
This was all at Intel corporation.
And I've gone through these iterationswhere I've seen these organizations, I worked in little startups inside
this large company, and we justlike, we'd start it up and grow it,
and then, you know, until we makecertain decisions, blah, blah, blah.
(26:22):
But I've seen where you don't havethis structure in place, and it is,
it not only doesn't work well, it's,it just, it sucks to live in it.
It just sucks.
And so like that, like when I goback to the force of awesome part,
like that force of awesome is prettylow and we need it to be running.
Yeah, no.
(26:42):
And I agree.
I think that's why they kept me outof EOS at the beginning because, I am
just a seat in my pants kind of guyand just go do what I want kind of guy.
And the structure has never beenmy thing, but I realized that.
And then seven years ago I gave upmanaging partner role one, a little bit struggle, but I knew it wasn't my role.
And just, I wanted to bring this upbecause Andy, who started Tri-Merit with me, is an engineer and when he became
(27:08):
managing partner, it was the processesand the procedures and the KPIs and all the stuff that we needed that structure,
you know, we grew nicely and, you know,at the beginning, but we took off.
Once we got all that in place,so it's extremely important.
That's awesome that you canrecognize like the differences in your personalities and giftings.
Yep.
And that how you've helped andhow he's helped in other ways.
(27:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I like to take creditthough, even though he got all this process of procedure in place, it
was me getting out in the fieldthat really caused the growth.
It's a combination, obviously.
So
yeah, next time that you guyshave a beer together, he's
Yep.
So, all right, we got off track a littlebit, even though I took us off track.
(27:51):
Let me get us back on trackto what we were talking about.
So let's get into the whole, youknow, why is it so important to
really, you know, identify yourtrue self and help others do that.
And then, you know,bringing that to a team.
Why is all of this so important?
Yeah.
So if I'm speaking from a, like a businessmoney perspective, this is lost revenue.
(28:14):
This is extra expenses.
And so when you look at other likesurveys, I think I already mentioned some like Gallup, McKinsey, Kartner,
all those things, they show like whatthis is actually costing industry.
I mean, it is a thumb in the air,but it's a general like estimation.
It's pretty educated on that.
What I've experienced in the past isI've worked with a data scientist and we actually looked at measuring the, You
(28:38):
have this goal and you're going to worktowards it for a certain period of time.
And then we looked at like how muchrevenue was gained through working on
that operational costs and cost savings,as well as retention and promotion rates.
And
what we did see was like at this companythat we saw that is contributing about 1 billion annually to the operating margin.
(28:59):
And we're like, whoa, like we wereshocked by, by this, it was a 75
billion business, but 1 billion,like, that's not chump change.
I take it.
Yeah.
And so when you look at it from abusiness, we're like, we can crack the nut and we can prove the ROI of this.
So just from a businessperspective, it is good business.
(29:20):
When you think about it from likea personal human element, like we are meaning making machines.
At the core, like we, all of uswant to be understood, we want to be seen, we want to be loved.
If I am not living in my true self, thenI can't love me and you can't either.
Yep.
And if you can't do that, then vice versa.
(29:43):
Right.
And I can't see you, I can'tunderstand you, I can't love you.
And I'm going to make upstories in my mind because we're meaning making machines.
That's not actually true.
Right.
And so we're going to movein this direction that's just kind of mumbled and jumbled.
And wouldn't it look better, orwouldn't life be more adventurous and fun and joyful and delightful?
(30:06):
If we actually figured that outand help one another do that, too.
I think I may have read this when I wasdoing that presentation you were at, but we have a culture code and one of
the things is that, you know, allowingpeople to be their true selves at work.
And to me, that's so importantbecause if you have hide who you are.
(30:27):
Or you don't, you can't be yourself.
Like you said, one, you can't builda relationship because I don't even know who I'm talking to because, you
know, and so being your true selfat work, I think is so important.
Yeah.
And this kind of, this is very personal.
And most of the time when you findthis is that you hide yourself.
Like I've, I've hiddenmyself in certain situations.
(30:50):
Because there's a root fear.
We all have a root fear that'sassociated with some sort of experience that we had early on in childhood.
And so my root fear is, is I am mostafraid of being rejected and cast out.
Oh, I'm pretty sure I know where thatcomes from is that I cut it comes from.
Yeah me coming from a holocaust survivingfamily As well as when I was about two years old I was hospitalized for
(31:15):
asthma and I was set in the hospitalroom by myself Oh, and I remember being alone and I remember Nurses coming
in, and I was like so excited thatsomeone was in the room and I would
like act out just to get attention andI would get yelled at and so rejected.
And then I'm just, and then,and then I'm alone again and I'm the youngest of three children.
(31:38):
And so the fear is that, but youhave to ask yourself, well what,
like that experience happened,but it's only like partially true.
So what was really true aboutit, the truth was right, is that I wasn't cast out, I was sick.
And they were trying to dothe best that they could.
And my mom and dad were takingcare of my older siblings.
And so, I was not fully alone.
(31:58):
When you go through that, and then youask yourself, well, okay, through my life experiences, every single human
being has had that experience wherelike, whoa, things just light up.
Like, I feel so much joy, like,excitement, energy towards this thing.
And it's usually, for me, it'slike around being courageous.
And so it's really around like saying thething or asking the question that pierces through Whatever the matter is right, and
(32:25):
so That's really when you go back to thislike when you understand those things
like we carry those things Every singlehuman being does carry those things.
But how is it actually impacting you?
Right now, today.
Yeah.
We gotta do some psychoanalysis on meand see why I am who I am, I guess.
What with this childhood thing.
(32:46):
I may be lying, but I honestlyfeel like I love everything I do and I love everybody I do it with.
So, I think I'm in a, a spot where Ithink you want to try to get everybody to.
I truly believe I'm in that spot.
Yeah.
It seems that way.
It seems
that
way.
Yeah.
And so I love it.
So, okay.
So your goal is to get everybody likewhere I say is still, I mean, probably
(33:10):
not your goal, but I say I live at theintersection of my passion and my skills.
And that's a beautiful place tobe because it's just, as you, the word you said earlier, there's joy.
I'm just,
yeah.
People energize me totally.
And I'm talking to people, so
yeah,
yeah, it's fun.
All right.
I already went on another tangent ofyour, telling us why this is important.
(33:30):
You're good at tangents, Randy.
I was talking to a speakercoach, speaking of this.
I've never dealt witha speaker coach before.
And I'm like, okay, maybeI should understand.
And he was actually inthat session you were in.
Cause I often say I go on tangents andhe said, stop saying you go on tangents.
Cause what you're saying is relevantto what you're talking about.
That's a, I.
I'm sorry to cut you off.
(33:51):
No, you're good.
I agree.
Yeah.
Just let it flow.
So you say like you're in this placewhere you love, but like you, you say that you have these, sorry, sorry.
I mean, you're apologizing.
I do.
For these tangents.
And so like.
Yep.
I get it because you guysare being really curious.
I'm
like, well, what's that about?
Well, I think now I'm goingto psychoanalyze myself.
I want, I want everybody to love me.
(34:13):
And so maybe I'm afraid that theydon't like that story or something.
I don't know.
That could be.
And what is that telling you?
So like you're afraid that I, so I'mhere with you, that you're afraid.
Oh, that's
the rejection thing.
Yeah.
I'm afraid of rejection.
Is that's what you said, right?
It could be.
Yeah.
All right.
We're going to have to work on this.
No, I don't want to.
I love where I am.
(34:35):
I don't want to find out anything else.
So here's the, here's the
other part about, about this.
Is that, so, and this iswhere I, why I love coaching.
What I, why I love what I do.
This is just information for us to moveforward on with, you know, like we're not going to, you don't stay in there
and just like sit in it, you're goingto look at it and you go, how does this inform me about myself and my situation?
(34:57):
And what do I need to do to move forward?
Like what's the next best step?
Got it.
All right, so I think we're abouttime to wrap up, but because of all these non tangents that went on,
they were not tangents, they wererelevant parts to the discussion.
I understand that now.
We went in different directions.
So I want to just kind of summarizethe whole, Hey, you're going to
(35:17):
get in, you're going to work withpeople to find them true selves.
That's going to lead themto doing with others.
That's going to lead team building.
That's going to lead tobusiness development.
and growth and success.
And so let's just, you summarize thatwhole path that I know that's a lot
in one, as summarization that, thatyou're looking to do when you work with.
Oh, totally.
yeah, yeah.
(35:38):
Yeah.
There is a methodology to this,like, believe it or not, like there is an actual structure to all this.
And so when I first meet with somebody.
Whether it's an individual ora team, it's a coaching call.
It's a complimentary one hourcomplimentary coaching call where you're going to experience coaching.
And we're going to, I'm going totry to uncover what the challenges that you're facing, what your goals
(35:59):
are and like, who are you and ifthere's a good fit and that's.
Individual or team.
And now that it might be followup conversations, and usually when there's a team or an organization,
there's always follow up conversationsbecause there's more people involved in yada, yada, but you walk through
like, what is the challenge and moretimes than not, the challenge that's presented is not the real challenge.
(36:20):
It's usually a layer or two below that.
And so you work through that, but thenthrough the whole process, there's always,
and it really, I do this dependent on theperson or the team or the organization.
What are your values?
What's your culture?
What are your goals?
Like, what do you hope for?
And so we start there.
(36:41):
And depending on how vulnerablepeople are, That tells you a lot.
And so depending on that, then,we'll go through certain assessments.
So I use a few differenttypes of assessments.
but then I also havesome great programming.
One's called five voices for teams.
Another one's called fivevoices, leader Academy.
(37:03):
And we go through this, six to 10 monthprogramming as a team where you will not only understand each other's voice.
What's it like being on the other sideof you, but you work through conflict situations and you'll work through
aligning how you are operating and movingin a direction and really understanding each other, like at a human to human
(37:24):
level that enables you to do more ofthat performance, like the EOS that
we're talking about, like it's just,it's like rocket fuel for all of that.
So that's a team level, butthe one on one coaching level.
Understanding each other.
Then you work through,like, here's your goal.
And we work typically in a six monthduration of first, like inner work, outer work of like, who are you?
(37:47):
What are your strengths?
What are your weaknesses?
And then we go through 360 feedback fromother people, because this is just your
perspective telling me, let's hear itfrom other people of what it's like.
And then we work and develop a planto build on that you can execute
and monitor and measure throughoutthe whole coaching engagement.
(38:07):
It is really, really, really, really,really fun and sweet, and I love getting to be a part of that with people.
Nice.
Is there
ever tears involved?
sometimes, yeah.
Depending, yeah.
I mean, we're talking about
Well, I like tears becausethere's vulnerability there.
Yeah,
exactly.
Exactly.
And so, for me, I My styleand, and I like that statement, you are a force of awesome.
(38:31):
And so I try to show that first.
And so leaders, and if you area leader of any organization.
The team is only going to go as deepas you go if you are the top leader and so in a coaching relationship
or a team coaching relationshipat first, I'm the I am the leader.
(38:51):
They're looking at me as the leader,and so I need to set the depth and the breath with them, right?
Nice.
Well, you are a force of awesome.
Thank you.
So are you!
Yes.
Nice.
All right.
Well, before we move Finalize everything.
I, there's got two final questionsI need to ask first, because you are
(39:11):
more than what you do at work, whatare your outside of work passions?
Yeah.
Being married.
I love hanging out withmy wife, my two kids.
I have a 10 and a half.
Oh no, almost 11 year old next month.
Ooh,
son, Connor, and then eightyear old daughter, Emma.
And we're always adventuring andfiguring fun, cool stuff out.
(39:34):
When I am not doing that,golf is like, is my thing.
It used to be snowboarding, butsnowboarding hurts a lot more, and golf, I love golf, and it's, you have to be out in
nature, it's always in a beautiful spot,and it's always challenging, so yeah.
Yeah, okay, so it's good tohear you have more than just work, which I assumed you did.
Oh yeah, yeah, there's a list more,there's a guitar there too, I play that.
(39:56):
Yeah, I did see, I sawthe guitar, that's nice.
I have two guitars, butI can't really play them.
I mean, I can strum, I can do a fewthings, but it's been, 50 years since I took my first guitar lesson and
only did that for about six monthsand then did it again when I was about 40 for about six months, I can do it.
But man, I've got no musicalability that I could tell.
(40:19):
So it's still fun.
All right.
And then last question.
Really awesome stuff.
You're Oh, I use the word awesomestuff that you're doing out there.
If people want to hear more or see whatyou're doing or get ahold of you, what's the best places for them to look or see?
Yeah.
Two places.
One, you can find me onLinkedIn, Dave Lane coach.
The other is that youcan go to my website.
(40:39):
It's www dot Grove & grain G R O V Eand A N D. Grain, G R A I N dot com.
I know it's a mouthful.
And also there's another, I talkedabout the Listen, Reflect, Ask model.
Yeah.
So you can go to grovingrain.
com forward slash L R A. You can sign upand you can get a free download of like, of a PDF of what I just talked about.
(41:05):
And so I like to give thingsaway like this because this is, I hope it's not just me.
Like you said earlier, youwere kind of joking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is.
That's a motto of mineis share your knowledge.
And so that's awesome.
Yeah.
Well, Dave, I knew thiswould be a lot of fun.
I appreciate you being on here andhopefully we'll talk again before long.
(41:25):
Awesome.
Randy, thank you so much for having me.
You are a force of awesome.
And all those listening, believethat you are a force of awesome too.
Let's go.
Thank you
for joining us today on the Unique CPA.
You can find the show notes fortoday's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit at TheUniqueCPA.com.
Remember to subscribe and leave a fivestar rating on your favorite podcasting
(41:50):
app, and join us next time for moreexpertise and insights on The Unique CPA.
ProfessionalProductions.net
Hello and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
We're committed to creating a thrivingcommunity of accounting professionals
who are physically and mentally healthy,fulfilled, and energized by their work.
Our ultimate goal is to elevatethe reputation of the accounting
profession and vastly improvethe lives of those in it.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
(00:24):
Today, our guest is Dave Lane.
Dave is founder of Grove & Grain,which I love the name, leadership, Grove & Grain leadership.
He is a business executive and leadershipcoach, a keynote speaker, and actually a fractional COO for a CPA firm.
And that's, Pretty muchprobably how I met him.
We were, he was with that leader ofthat firm out in Vegas at a conference.
(00:46):
We were all attending and got to meetthem there, which is a lot of fun.
And in addition to all that, Ilove Dave's, I don't know what you would say his tagline, his model.
He tells everybody they're a force forawesome, which I think is pretty cool.
Dave, welcome to the Unique CPA.
Yeah.
Thanks, Randy.
I'm stoked to be here.
Yeah.
Before we even get into it, I want to go,I didn't even think about this, but I'm going to break down that force of awesome.
(01:09):
Where did that start?
How'd that come about?
so yeah, it, decades, but itreally took shape, I would say probably about 10 years ago.
So I grew up on a board, skateboard,surfboard, snowboard, you name it.
It was, I was on it.
And so like, Like was always like partof just my vernacular, but then as I was going through different life experiences
(01:34):
and then going through career, theawesome started to wane a little much and things just started to be less awesome.
Unless you had this hobby that youhad time and money and energy for.
But then I have this belief that everysingle human being is unique and has
gifts and we can learn from every singleperson and that's awesome in itself.
(01:58):
And so when you're able to actuallyuntap that, that is the force of awesome.
Like when you are able to actually livein your like true self, be your unique.
Awesomeness that is reallycool and really awesome.
So that's how it comes to be.
And I just want to get peopleexcited about being themselves and being themselves.
That's key because that's wheretheir awesomeness comes through when they're able to be themselves.
(02:22):
We can dig into that later.
I guess a little bit, but before we,and now I already sidetracked this once,
which will happen quite often whilewe're talking today, probably, but.
I introduced you and the company,but why don't you dig a little deeper into what you do and Grove & Grain.
And I want to hear where the name camefrom, but we can save that part for later.
(02:42):
Yeah.
So what I currently do is I'm abusiness executive leadership coach, consultant, and fractional COO.
And what I do is I help smallto mid market business owners and leaders and their teams.
Like get unstuck fromsome sort of situation.
I help them identify like what mattersmost to them and not just their business, but in their lives and then
(03:03):
operationalize and integrate thatinto the fabric of their company.
And then orchestrate that monitor, measureit, and then I walk alongside them.
So I'm kind of this trusted advisor,partner, person for seasons.
And then you go and you flourish and live.
So that's, that's what I do in a nutshell.
That's what you
do in a nutshell.
(03:23):
And then the name, wheredid that come from?
Cause it's really cool.
Yeah.
So the name is a picture word.
And the name comes from an experiencethat I had with my wife, and I've always been fascinated with trees.
So, I live in the Pacific Northwest,and there's a lot of trees here.
Yes, there are.
But, it came from an image that Ireceived, and I had this image of trees, and the roots are actually underneath
(03:47):
the ground, are connected to other roots,and they're connected to other trees.
Now, when I look at a team, or a business,or an organization, Like how strong that
team or organization is, is basicallyby the strongest or weakest person.
And so the whole team or grove.
So the grove is a picture word for a teamor an organization needs to have like teamwork, team development and awareness.
(04:13):
So that's the grove.
The grain is I need selfawareness and self development.
So the individual grain of a person andthe knots and the different colors and the textures that makes us our unique self.
And so it's a picture word of like, Ineed each other, like healthy leaders know that they need other people to, in
order to be successful and move towardsthe vision that they have, and they need self awareness and self development.
(04:37):
That's where that name comes from.
Nice.
Well, when we first met, I don't evenknow the month, whatever the month was, we shouldn't even talk months
because we don't want to, we wantto make sure when this comes out, I think it'll be out fairly shortly.
Sometime last year.
It was sometime last year.
Exactly.
I was telling you before westarted recording, I think I'm a little out of practice right now.
(04:59):
I haven't recorded a lot lately.
So actually you sat in a session thatI did and I really appreciate that.
But after the session, we started talkingand we realized we have a lot of the same passions, a lot of the same ideas.
Even I was looking through yourLinkedIn posts before we started recording and I'm like, He's right.
That's spot on.
That's exactly everythingyou were posting.
(05:20):
I'm going, yeah, this guy gets it.
He knows he's it.
Thank you.
And so a lot of it comes from, youknow, first off a few different things, but a lot of it comes from for me and
that session I was doing was, you know,cultivating that people first culture.
And I know people are a passionof yours and helping people.
And so why don't we getinto, you know, what that is.
How do you see working with peopleand what do you try to do when you
(05:43):
work with people to make sure thatthey are this force of awesome?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so thank you for saying that,that I feel honored, that you just said that that's, it's hitting me.
so how I do that.
I'm going to go a little bit backof like how I got to get to do this.
And so the reason, like the why, andwe talked a little bit about this before we started recording is that.
(06:07):
There's a large divorce rate in theUnited States, 51 percent I believe it is.
The Surgeon General, I forget how manyyears ago, created this white paper that, you know, anxiety, depression,
loneliness is on the rise, and it's notstopping, and it's going at greater rates.
There's a great book that cameout for any parent out there, The Anxious Generation is a great book.
(06:27):
Scary as all get out, but it actually islike it's, you get to look at the mirror and you get to do something about it.
Long story short, when I was abouta year into my career at Intel, I had a mentor of mine that said, Hey,
look to someone about 10, 15 yearsolder than you, that you can kind of emulate, take what you like from them.
(06:47):
Don't take what you don't likefrom them and try to emulate.
And I look, I was looking around,I was searching and seeking, and I really had a hard time finding anyone.
A lot of sickness, a lot of death, alot of overweightness, a lot of divorce, and it was heavily engineering, as
I was an engineer to start out with,and I just, I didn't understand this.
(07:11):
I'm going to rewind alittle bit beyond that.
I've come from a Holocaust survivingfamily, and I have had this
question inside of me of how couldpeople do this to one another?
How?
It just seems so far out to me.
But if I go and examine and I, and thisis like years and years of therapy and
other work, we all have the capabilityof actually doing that to one another.
(07:35):
That's crazy.
I mean, I, I guess you, I guess I canprobably see it, but man, just to think that can potentially be in everybody.
It's weird.
It is weird.
It's weird, but we have choice.
So that's the part where we havemade decisions over our lifetime that have moved us in a certain direction.
(07:57):
And others have made other choices.
So, we have choice.
And so, I want to helpother people recognize.
That they actually do have agency.
Awesome.
And that's where a lot of this comesdown to is that and so I work with a lot of business owners and their teams and
the leadership teams of understanding,okay, what do you really care about in your, not just your business.
(08:21):
But in your life, and how are youmaking decisions based off of that?
Are you, or are you afraid?
And most people are actually quitescared to make decisions that are, that's deep down in their heart and soul that
they know is like, this is the truestsense of who I am, as it's really scary for me because they've been taught.
(08:41):
Early on in life, that isactually dangerous for them to do.
That's crazy.
I think I need you to clarify that.
So, so people won't make thedecisions that they really should be
making because there's a fear builtin that they're not supposed to?
Right.
Is it a selfish thing?
What is it?
(09:02):
Yeah, so I mean, it's a complicatedthing to go and examine.
Yeah.
But, so I, follow me.
The way that my, that I think about it isthat, okay, If we're working two thirds
of our lives, divorce is at this rate,anxiety, depression is at the rate it is.
If you go look at Gallup, McKinsey,Gartner, all the studies show that engagement is not good.
(09:25):
Yes.
That people are relatively unhappy, and Iknow that this is heavy in the accounting industry, and I know that's one of the
reasons why, like, your heart and whatyou're doing, you're so passionate about.
But, like, if you go through that, Weare making decisions to be successful and to move forward in something
that was prescribed for us, notsomething that's like deep down inside of us, and it is really personal.
(09:50):
And we are afraid of that integration.
So the integration, when we saythat, like they can just, I mean, I talk about this all the time.
You have outside of work passions.
I want people to be able tointegrate those passions into what they're doing at work.
Now.
They, they can at some level, maybethey can't at some level, but you, there are things, let's do it this way.
(10:12):
There are things you love to doand there's things you're good at.
And then there's things that you hateto do and there's things you're bad at.
And so why not concentrate on thosethings that you're good at and you love doing, and that probably somehow
integrates into these outside of workpassions you have because you love it.
And so even if it's, even it's an insideof work passion, it becomes an outside of work passion because you love doing this.
(10:37):
And so, people just don't see thatthis is the path they should be on.
Am I on track?
Yeah, you're getting, you'regetting on track, yeah.
And a lot of times, people aren'tactually taught these things.
That is actually possible.
Alright, alright.
So, that's another element of this.
Is that, fortunately, like somepeople are taught these things.
(10:57):
Like, hey, you havecertain passions in life.
You have certain skills.
And go marry that with a career.
Go marry that with hobbies or whatever.
And that's awesome.
But some people don't have theluxury of figuring those things out.
Right.
Now, this isn't just aboutmatching passion with skill set.
Okay.
This is also understanding, like, atthe truest sense of who I am, I'm living that out and expressing that through
(11:24):
my work, through my hobbies, through myrelationships, in all aspects of life.
And so, when I work with clientson this, I show them a model.
This is my coaching model.
It's that leadership startswith self leadership.
So we're first going to examine yourself.
Then do you have a family?
And then do you have a team?
(11:45):
And then do you have an organization?
And then do you have a community?
And so it works outward.
It's inward to outward work.
And that's how this has to start.
Because you could startat the third rung on that.
Yeah.
It's only going to go so far.
Right.
And it's not going to be sustainable.
Right.
And then, so, if they do this, ifthey start with themselves, and I love that, that eventually leads them into
(12:11):
a leadership, they're already in aleadership role, let's say, and now they've used this skill that they just
learned that, hey, I need to work onmyself first and then, you know, expand
out that circle or however you lookat it, the next step along the way.
How does that, yeah.
I'm excited and I can't get the words out.
How does that, how do they passthat on to the people they work with to help them do that same thing?
(12:34):
Dude, love your question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause it's only so good if like, itonly goes so far if it's just you.
Right.
You gotta like, we're meant to bein relationship with other people.
Yeah, that's how we are created.
And so this actually comes into a lotof the work that I do with clients and that a lot of the work that leaders, I
actually try my best to like, I don'tknow if it's preach or whatever, but it's like, Hey, you people are following you.
(13:01):
And you need to think aboutthe relationships that you have and manage that intentionally.
And so this is not just aboutleadership development, it's relational development as well.
And so you actually have to beintentional about how you do that.
It's like, okay, I'm, mycup's getting filled up.
Great.
Now, how do I go fillup other people's cups?
(13:21):
How do I make sure that this Team is aswell functioning as possible and that we know each other and we understand
When sally or joe are having an offday We know what that means and we know how to actually support that And step
in and then when we seek out a visionor a goal for ourselves We know how to coalesce and debate and have conflict.
(13:44):
Oh, yeah, and then move ina direction that is Most beneficial for the greater good.
And I love what you just said there,because we actually just talked about that this past week in our company annual state
of the union address, where, you know,we had something out there that kind of shows that we, Hey, we want to be this
(14:06):
cohesive unit and, you know, all worktogether and avoid, and it didn't really
say avoid conflict, but it kind of lookedlike that's what we were trying to say.
And so we clarified that right away.
No, we understand.
We want a diverse group ofpeople working here because one, we all learn from each other.
You all have great ideas.
If everybody was a cloneof me, we would go nowhere.
(14:29):
And so having this diversity,you think of DEI, diversity.
And, but in addition to that diversityof mindset, different faith, diversity
of ideas, diversity of skills,diversity of passions of whatever.
And when you put that together.
Everybody's going tohave a different idea.
You know, is that conflict?
(14:50):
No, I think we don't want conflict to thelevel that people are screaming at each other, but conflict, because there's a
difference of ideas and somewhere in thereis the perfect, or at least as close as you can get to what we need to be doing.
So do you teach thatwhen you're with groups?
I mean, this conflict discussion you have.
I want to hear more about this.
(15:11):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, cause we deal with conflict everysingle day, like thousand times a day.
And conflict really is just yourneeds or expectations not being met.
Okay.
And conflict arises and itcan be at different levels.
And this is where I actually teachmajority of my clients, this one tool called listen, reflect, and ask.
And that's something that I learnedfrom my colleagues back when I worked at Intel, my coaching colleagues.
(15:35):
And it's a fundamental coaching model.
And so when you're in this conflict,like how are you actually listening?
Like most of the time we are actuallylistening to respond, find the hole.
Right.
You know, give our wisdom out there.
How do I make them think theway I'm thinking rather than
listening?
Correct.
Yep.
Yeah.
And so when you're in conflict,like, and this is where I teach
(15:57):
them not only to use this for otherpeople, but use it for yourself.
So are you listening tothe voice inside your head?
Are you listening to what you're feeling?
And how do you reflect that back, notonly to yourself, but to other people?
And then how do you ask an open endedquestion that furthers the conversation?
Alright.
And that's, say it again,listen, wait, the three things.
(16:18):
It's listen, reflect, and ask.
And it's a circular thing.
And so, it's a, this is afundamental coaching model.
So all coaches willuse this type of model.
No, only you.
In my mind, it's only you.
Yeah, I hope, I hope it's not just me.
If it's just me, then,oh boy, that's a problem.
(16:38):
No, it's not, it's not just me.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
But in conflict, sothere are certain steps.
There's always the nonviolentcommunication where it's saying, I
feel that when this happens, like intrying to put yourself on a balcony.
You know, third person language.
And so you go to a third person.
It seems like we're, or that thissituation it's happening and here's what I observe and blah, blah, blah.
(17:03):
What do you observe?
And then you put it onthe second person, like.
What do you think?
Right.
And then you go into here's what I need.
So there's a method called 3 2 1for conflict resolution, where it's third person perspective, second
person, and then you're, then you,your first person voice in that.
Yeah, I'm probably, Ithink I'm okay at this.
(17:23):
I think I wasn't in the past.
And, you know, we had a, we started anew service line about four years ago.
And we were, you know, it was.
A little bit of like, Hey,we got to build this out.
We got to figure out how this work.
And I kept like saying,no, I'm right on this.
And then I sat back and then, soit wasn't, I guess I reflected, but I didn't reflect immediately.
(17:46):
And then after a few weeks, I'm like.
You know, they're right.
They're sending us down the rightpath by what they're saying.
And it took me forever, well,forever, two weeks to realize that.
But I was, I guess, proudof myself that I did.
Like, okay, I don't have tobe the one with the answers.
There's, we have so many smart peoplehere and they have better ideas than me.
And that was a huge, kindof a light bulb for me.
(18:09):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's awesome that you,yeah, you experienced that.
So that you showedvulnerability to your team.
It took you a couple ofweeks and, and that's great.
A lot of times, peopledon't do that at all.
And so, what I believe is that, like,could you create a culture where that two weeks turns into seconds or minutes?
(18:32):
Right.
And
so, that.
I think we're pretty good at that.
I honestly I'm not that activewith our team that much because
I'm out on an island a little bit,just out speaking all the time.
But when we are, it justseems we've progressed so much and we've integrated EOS.
And I think that helps with stuff.
(18:52):
And EOS has a version, I'm goingbackwards now, but a version of that
love it, hate it, bad at it, good atit, that EOS has their own version.
I like this one because it's a friendof mine, Sean Duncan told me about the love and hate it, good at, bad at.
And so one thing, and I guess I'm goingbackwards here, but one thing that I'm saying that we need to do internally,
(19:14):
and I do presentations now, and I, Iurge people to do this is, and this is kind of the vulnerability you just talked
about, is take this self assessment,very simple, list all your tasks, go through it, find the love it, good at
it, find the hate it, bad at it, andthen, you know, obviously one of them is where you want to spend your time,
the other one you delegate, eliminate,Automate, outsource, whatever it is.
(19:38):
And so now what I'm saying to usinternally and to people when I'm talking to this, when you do that, do it
for yourself first, but then share theresults with people, you know, because people are going to be afraid to take.
This self assessment because they'renot going to want to say I'm bad at
something and they're not going towant to say I don't like something.
(19:58):
Yeah, but
when you do that and you find thethings that kind of like you're saying, you know, finding your true self When
you find your true self and your truepassions, there's gonna be people that
fall in this You know bad at it andhate at it that you don't like that.
They it's in there Loveit and good at it, right?
And so when you do this now youjust find people's Happy spot with what they want to do at work.
(20:22):
Sorry.
I'm going on a tangent now.
You're spot on.
You're spot on.
And I think it's a little bit of atangent, but I think it's related to all of this where my mind goes with this is.
So we were talking about vulnerability.
Yes.
Vulnerability is the whole point.
Yep.
If I can get the red threadthrough it's vulnerability.
Yes.
Yep.
Now I'm going to share a story.
(20:44):
So I was part of a. Largeleadership development program.
We ran over 300 people through itand the impacts were in the tens
of thousands across the globe at alarge global Fortune 100 company.
What we started doing was thateach leader that was part of this program in our cohorts, there
were cohorts of 10 to 12, but theyeach received one on one coaching.
(21:05):
What we did at every single cohortsession and every single one on one
coaching session was that we didan emotional check in with them.
We actually provided, we used atool called the mood Meter, which Marc Brackett from Yale created
wonderful tool and it provides youlanguage of, what am I feeling?
And it was as simple as that.
It's like, we just want youjust do a one word check-in.
(21:27):
That's what we called it, oneword check-in of how you're feeling, how you're showing up.
And they would just say, whatthey're saying is spitball.
And that just provided thislittle air, like room to breathe.
Like, oh, I don't have to hidethis in that I'm really frustrated.
Just like, cause I just gotout of a meeting and the vice presidents just reamed me.
(21:49):
Like I'm fuming inside.
Right.
And now I have to show up to this.
And so how often do we go through ourdays where we're actually just like we're holding on to this thing and so like
you're in conflict, you're trying tocome up with this new idea or this new membership service or whatever, and you're
feeling this like uneasiness, but you holdit in, you hold it in, you hold it in.
(22:12):
And if a team and a leadershipteam had that practice.
It was, it was like, Oh yeah, I justwant to do a quick check in 30 seconds.
That's it based off ofthis member service line.
What are you feeling?
Go.
And then it's all it is is data.
It's just data.
Right.
But this, I like the idea of thisbecause we have, and they wrote me
in and to getting involved in anL10 meeting recently with our EOS.
(22:36):
At the beginning ofthat, everybody shares a.
Hey, you know, tell us a personalpositive from the last week and a business positive from the last week.
I think adding to that the moodcheck in is probably not a bad
idea just to see where everybodyis going into this meeting.
Would that make sense?
So, with the CPA firm that I'm workingwith, we are implementing EOS ourselves.
(23:01):
Okay.
We do a level 10, L10 meeting.
Yep.
And the thing that we are recognizingthat we're missing And the EOS is amazing.
It's wonderful, but it does, it doesleave this stuff out a little bit.
In my mind, I think that there are,there's room to provide a space for this, but this requires a certain level of.
(23:25):
Emotional maturity from thepeople in the room, right?
True, true.
And so that's the thing that I thinkis, it could be a little bit dangerous.
And so that's where having a coach ora consultant that's walking alongside with you that can hold that space.
Right.
Provides that value of like.
(23:45):
Hey, you're going, like, wesaid 30 seconds, we said one word check, and you gave us 10.
We need to move on.
Like, can you respect that for everybody?
And that is kind of like whatthe L10 leader's role is, too, to keep it on track, I think.
I'm not fighting theEOS, I think it's good.
I just, like I said earlier,I stay in my own lane.
(24:06):
And so when they got me inthis, I'm like, all right, sure.
It's our marketing and sales L10, whichI'm actively involved with marketing.
So that makes sense and sales.
So that makes sense, but yeah, it's good.
So, all right.
I'm going on a tangent now.
So how are you and you enjoyingthe EOS implementation?
I am.
So I was a trained engineerand I like, I like process.
(24:27):
I like structure.
It provides, it's helpful.
My nature is not that like you and Icould probably I'm like, can I just get on a plane and fly over and let's
go hang out like all day long and justsee where that goes, but that's my nature me too, but I know that is really
good for me to have this structure inplace and I know that just look at the statistics of businesses, how they fail.
(24:52):
It's mainly because ofpoor structure and process.
And so we are a very small company.
It's a collective CPA and advisors,very small as a seven people total, but there's a plan for large growth.
And we know that we need to putstructure in place in order for us to be able to not just go insane.
Like we, like the culture and thevalues that we have are so like, they're very people oriented.
(25:19):
And so.
We want to make sure that we areliving that out, and we know what got us here is not going to get us
to the next step, and EOS, I believe,is helping us work through that.
I can see that.
Are you finding conflicts with EOS andwhat you've thought, you know, like helping people find their true selves,
(25:40):
and you know, people and their familiesare important, and business comes in, and I, is there any conflict with What
you have traditionally believed andthought and implementation of EOS.
No,
no, I've gone for, from my experience.
So started as an engineerprogram management, then I ran product teams for a long time.
(26:01):
And then I became an internalexecutive leadership coach.
This was all at Intel corporation.
And I've gone through these iterationswhere I've seen these organizations, I worked in little startups inside
this large company, and we justlike, we'd start it up and grow it,
and then, you know, until we makecertain decisions, blah, blah, blah.
(26:22):
But I've seen where you don't havethis structure in place, and it is,
it not only doesn't work well, it's,it just, it sucks to live in it.
It just sucks.
And so like that, like when I goback to the force of awesome part,
like that force of awesome is prettylow and we need it to be running.
Yeah, no.
(26:42):
And I agree.
I think that's why they kept me outof EOS at the beginning because, I am
just a seat in my pants kind of guyand just go do what I want kind of guy.
And the structure has never beenmy thing, but I realized that.
And then seven years ago I gave upmanaging partner role one, a little bit struggle, but I knew it wasn't my role.
And just, I wanted to bring this upbecause Andy, who started Tri-Merit with me, is an engineer and when he became
(27:08):
managing partner, it was the processesand the procedures and the KPIs and all the stuff that we needed that structure,
you know, we grew nicely and, you know,at the beginning, but we took off.
Once we got all that in place,so it's extremely important.
That's awesome that you canrecognize like the differences in your personalities and giftings.
Yep.
And that how you've helped andhow he's helped in other ways.
(27:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I like to take creditthough, even though he got all this process of procedure in place, it
was me getting out in the fieldthat really caused the growth.
It's a combination, obviously.
So
yeah, next time that you guyshave a beer together, he's
Yep.
So, all right, we got off track a littlebit, even though I took us off track.
(27:51):
Let me get us back on trackto what we were talking about.
So let's get into the whole, youknow, why is it so important to
really, you know, identify yourtrue self and help others do that.
And then, you know,bringing that to a team.
Why is all of this so important?
Yeah.
So if I'm speaking from a, like a businessmoney perspective, this is lost revenue.
(28:14):
This is extra expenses.
And so when you look at other likesurveys, I think I already mentioned some like Gallup, McKinsey, Kartner,
all those things, they show like whatthis is actually costing industry.
I mean, it is a thumb in the air,but it's a general like estimation.
It's pretty educated on that.
What I've experienced in the past isI've worked with a data scientist and we actually looked at measuring the, You
(28:38):
have this goal and you're going to worktowards it for a certain period of time.
And then we looked at like how muchrevenue was gained through working on
that operational costs and cost savings,as well as retention and promotion rates.
And
what we did see was like at this companythat we saw that is contributing about 1 billion annually to the operating margin.
(28:59):
And we're like, whoa, like we wereshocked by, by this, it was a 75
billion business, but 1 billion,like, that's not chump change.
I take it.
Yeah.
And so when you look at it from abusiness, we're like, we can crack the nut and we can prove the ROI of this.
So just from a businessperspective, it is good business.
(29:20):
When you think about it from likea personal human element, like we are meaning making machines.
At the core, like we, all of uswant to be understood, we want to be seen, we want to be loved.
If I am not living in my true self, thenI can't love me and you can't either.
Yep.
And if you can't do that, then vice versa.
(29:43):
Right.
And I can't see you, I can'tunderstand you, I can't love you.
And I'm going to make upstories in my mind because we're meaning making machines.
That's not actually true.
Right.
And so we're going to movein this direction that's just kind of mumbled and jumbled.
And wouldn't it look better, orwouldn't life be more adventurous and fun and joyful and delightful?
(30:06):
If we actually figured that outand help one another do that, too.
I think I may have read this when I wasdoing that presentation you were at, but we have a culture code and one of
the things is that, you know, allowingpeople to be their true selves at work.
And to me, that's so importantbecause if you have hide who you are.
(30:27):
Or you don't, you can't be yourself.
Like you said, one, you can't builda relationship because I don't even know who I'm talking to because, you
know, and so being your true selfat work, I think is so important.
Yeah.
And this kind of, this is very personal.
And most of the time when you findthis is that you hide yourself.
Like I've, I've hiddenmyself in certain situations.
(30:50):
Because there's a root fear.
We all have a root fear that'sassociated with some sort of experience that we had early on in childhood.
And so my root fear is, is I am mostafraid of being rejected and cast out.
Oh, I'm pretty sure I know where thatcomes from is that I cut it comes from.
Yeah me coming from a holocaust survivingfamily As well as when I was about two years old I was hospitalized for
(31:15):
asthma and I was set in the hospitalroom by myself Oh, and I remember being alone and I remember Nurses coming
in, and I was like so excited thatsomeone was in the room and I would
like act out just to get attention andI would get yelled at and so rejected.
And then I'm just, and then,and then I'm alone again and I'm the youngest of three children.
(31:38):
And so the fear is that, but youhave to ask yourself, well what,
like that experience happened,but it's only like partially true.
So what was really true aboutit, the truth was right, is that I wasn't cast out, I was sick.
And they were trying to dothe best that they could.
And my mom and dad were takingcare of my older siblings.
And so, I was not fully alone.
(31:58):
When you go through that, and then youask yourself, well, okay, through my life experiences, every single human
being has had that experience wherelike, whoa, things just light up.
Like, I feel so much joy, like,excitement, energy towards this thing.
And it's usually, for me, it'slike around being courageous.
And so it's really around like saying thething or asking the question that pierces through Whatever the matter is right, and
(32:25):
so That's really when you go back to thislike when you understand those things
like we carry those things Every singlehuman being does carry those things.
But how is it actually impacting you?
Right now, today.
Yeah.
We gotta do some psychoanalysis on meand see why I am who I am, I guess.
What with this childhood thing.
(32:46):
I may be lying, but I honestlyfeel like I love everything I do and I love everybody I do it with.
So, I think I'm in a, a spot where Ithink you want to try to get everybody to.
I truly believe I'm in that spot.
Yeah.
It seems that way.
It seems
that
way.
Yeah.
And so I love it.
So, okay.
So your goal is to get everybody likewhere I say is still, I mean, probably
(33:10):
not your goal, but I say I live at theintersection of my passion and my skills.
And that's a beautiful place tobe because it's just, as you, the word you said earlier, there's joy.
I'm just,
yeah.
People energize me totally.
And I'm talking to people, so
yeah,
yeah, it's fun.
All right.
I already went on another tangent ofyour, telling us why this is important.
(33:30):
You're good at tangents, Randy.
I was talking to a speakercoach, speaking of this.
I've never dealt witha speaker coach before.
And I'm like, okay, maybeI should understand.
And he was actually inthat session you were in.
Cause I often say I go on tangents andhe said, stop saying you go on tangents.
Cause what you're saying is relevantto what you're talking about.
That's a, I.
I'm sorry to cut you off.
(33:51):
No, you're good.
I agree.
Yeah.
Just let it flow.
So you say like you're in this placewhere you love, but like you, you say that you have these, sorry, sorry.
I mean, you're apologizing.
I do.
For these tangents.
And so like.
Yep.
I get it because you guysare being really curious.
I'm
like, well, what's that about?
Well, I think now I'm goingto psychoanalyze myself.
I want, I want everybody to love me.
(34:13):
And so maybe I'm afraid that theydon't like that story or something.
I don't know.
That could be.
And what is that telling you?
So like you're afraid that I, so I'mhere with you, that you're afraid.
Oh, that's
the rejection thing.
Yeah.
I'm afraid of rejection.
Is that's what you said, right?
It could be.
Yeah.
All right.
We're going to have to work on this.
No, I don't want to.
I love where I am.
(34:35):
I don't want to find out anything else.
So here's the, here's the
other part about, about this.
Is that, so, and this iswhere I, why I love coaching.
What I, why I love what I do.
This is just information for us to moveforward on with, you know, like we're not going to, you don't stay in there
and just like sit in it, you're goingto look at it and you go, how does this inform me about myself and my situation?
(34:57):
And what do I need to do to move forward?
Like what's the next best step?
Got it.
All right, so I think we're abouttime to wrap up, but because of all these non tangents that went on,
they were not tangents, they wererelevant parts to the discussion.
I understand that now.
We went in different directions.
So I want to just kind of summarizethe whole, Hey, you're going to
(35:17):
get in, you're going to work withpeople to find them true selves.
That's going to lead themto doing with others.
That's going to lead team building.
That's going to lead tobusiness development.
and growth and success.
And so let's just, you summarize thatwhole path that I know that's a lot
in one, as summarization that, thatyou're looking to do when you work with.
Oh, totally.
yeah, yeah.
(35:38):
Yeah.
There is a methodology to this,like, believe it or not, like there is an actual structure to all this.
And so when I first meet with somebody.
Whether it's an individual ora team, it's a coaching call.
It's a complimentary one hourcomplimentary coaching call where you're going to experience coaching.
And we're going to, I'm going totry to uncover what the challenges that you're facing, what your goals
(35:59):
are and like, who are you and ifthere's a good fit and that's.
Individual or team.
And now that it might be followup conversations, and usually when there's a team or an organization,
there's always follow up conversationsbecause there's more people involved in yada, yada, but you walk through
like, what is the challenge and moretimes than not, the challenge that's presented is not the real challenge.
(36:20):
It's usually a layer or two below that.
And so you work through that, but thenthrough the whole process, there's always,
and it really, I do this dependent on theperson or the team or the organization.
What are your values?
What's your culture?
What are your goals?
Like, what do you hope for?
And so we start there.
(36:41):
And depending on how vulnerablepeople are, That tells you a lot.
And so depending on that, then,we'll go through certain assessments.
So I use a few differenttypes of assessments.
but then I also havesome great programming.
One's called five voices for teams.
Another one's called fivevoices, leader Academy.
(37:03):
And we go through this, six to 10 monthprogramming as a team where you will not only understand each other's voice.
What's it like being on the other sideof you, but you work through conflict situations and you'll work through
aligning how you are operating and movingin a direction and really understanding each other, like at a human to human
(37:24):
level that enables you to do more ofthat performance, like the EOS that
we're talking about, like it's just,it's like rocket fuel for all of that.
So that's a team level, butthe one on one coaching level.
Understanding each other.
Then you work through,like, here's your goal.
And we work typically in a six monthduration of first, like inner work, outer work of like, who are you?
(37:47):
What are your strengths?
What are your weaknesses?
And then we go through 360 feedback fromother people, because this is just your
perspective telling me, let's hear itfrom other people of what it's like.
And then we work and develop a planto build on that you can execute
and monitor and measure throughoutthe whole coaching engagement.
(38:07):
It is really, really, really, really,really fun and sweet, and I love getting to be a part of that with people.
Nice.
Is there
ever tears involved?
sometimes, yeah.
Depending, yeah.
I mean, we're talking about
Well, I like tears becausethere's vulnerability there.
Yeah,
exactly.
Exactly.
And so, for me, I My styleand, and I like that statement, you are a force of awesome.
(38:31):
And so I try to show that first.
And so leaders, and if you area leader of any organization.
The team is only going to go as deepas you go if you are the top leader and so in a coaching relationship
or a team coaching relationshipat first, I'm the I am the leader.
(38:51):
They're looking at me as the leader,and so I need to set the depth and the breath with them, right?
Nice.
Well, you are a force of awesome.
Thank you.
So are you!
Yes.
Nice.
All right.
Well, before we move Finalize everything.
I, there's got two final questionsI need to ask first, because you are
(39:11):
more than what you do at work, whatare your outside of work passions?
Yeah.
Being married.
I love hanging out withmy wife, my two kids.
I have a 10 and a half.
Oh no, almost 11 year old next month.
Ooh,
son, Connor, and then eightyear old daughter, Emma.
And we're always adventuring andfiguring fun, cool stuff out.
(39:34):
When I am not doing that,golf is like, is my thing.
It used to be snowboarding, butsnowboarding hurts a lot more, and golf, I love golf, and it's, you have to be out in
nature, it's always in a beautiful spot,and it's always challenging, so yeah.
Yeah, okay, so it's good tohear you have more than just work, which I assumed you did.
Oh yeah, yeah, there's a list more,there's a guitar there too, I play that.
(39:56):
Yeah, I did see, I sawthe guitar, that's nice.
I have two guitars, butI can't really play them.
I mean, I can strum, I can do a fewthings, but it's been, 50 years since I took my first guitar lesson and
only did that for about six monthsand then did it again when I was about 40 for about six months, I can do it.
But man, I've got no musicalability that I could tell.
(40:19):
So it's still fun.
All right.
And then last question.
Really awesome stuff.
You're Oh, I use the word awesomestuff that you're doing out there.
If people want to hear more or see whatyou're doing or get ahold of you, what's the best places for them to look or see?
Yeah.
Two places.
One, you can find me onLinkedIn, Dave Lane coach.
The other is that youcan go to my website.
(40:39):
It's www dot Grove & grain G R O V Eand A N D. Grain, G R A I N dot com.
I know it's a mouthful.
And also there's another, I talkedabout the Listen, Reflect, Ask model.
Yeah.
So you can go to grovingrain.
com forward slash L R A. You can sign upand you can get a free download of like, of a PDF of what I just talked about.
(41:05):
And so I like to give thingsaway like this because this is, I hope it's not just me.
Like you said earlier, youwere kind of joking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is.
That's a motto of mineis share your knowledge.
And so that's awesome.
Yeah.
Well, Dave, I knew thiswould be a lot of fun.
I appreciate you being on here andhopefully we'll talk again before long.
(41:25):
Awesome.
Randy, thank you so much for having me.
You are a force of awesome.
And all those listening, believethat you are a force of awesome too.
Let's go.
Thank you
for joining us today on the Unique CPA.
You can find the show notes fortoday's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit at TheUniqueCPA.com.
Remember to subscribe and leave a fivestar rating on your favorite podcasting
(41:50):
app, and join us next time for moreexpertise and insights on The Unique CPA.
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