April 22, 2025 • 42 mins
Questian Telka and Nancy McClelland join Randy on Episode 208 of The Unique CPA to discuss their new podcast, She Counts, aimed at addressing the unique experiences of women in the accounting profession. The podcast will focus on authentic conversations with subject matter experts and leaders in the profession, with discussions about breaking through isolation, challenging industry norms, both providing and receiving support and practical advice, #MeToo, mentorship, vulnerability, the importance of DEI, and more. Launching She Counts in mid-May, Questian and Nancy understand the need for intentional change in hiring and promotion practices and invite both women and men to join these important conversations through the podcast.
Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUniqueCPA.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
(00:04):
We are committed to creating a thrivingcommunity of accounting professionals
who are physically and mentally healthy,fulfilled, and energized by their work.
Our ultimate goal is to elevatethe reputation of the accounting
profession and vastly improvedthe lives of those in it.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
Today on The Unique CPA, I'm thrilledto welcome two incredible professionals who are not only experts in their
(00:30):
fields, but are now joining forcesto launch something truly important for the accounting profession.
Nancy McClelland and Questian Teka.
They are now the co-host of thebrand new podcast called She Counts, which I'm excited to discuss today.
And together they are creating aspace to explore the experiences
of women in accounting challengeoutdated industry norms and.
(00:53):
Elevate stories that too often go unheard.
We're going to be talking about whyshe counts matters, what inspired them to create it, and how they're
hoping to drive change, which Ilove change in the profession while having some fun along the way.
Plus, you'll hear a bit abouttheir upcoming sessions at this year's Bridging The Gap Conference.
Nancy, Questian.
(01:14):
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, Randy.
Thank you so much for having us.
We're happy to be here.
As anybody listening doesn'trealize, it took me like three tries to get that intro done.
So we got it done, at least,and now we're ready to go.
So you did a
beautiful job.
That was a, that was a gorgeous introat, because not only what is, was
(01:34):
it really, it was really lovely, butit was, you get what we're doing.
That makes me so excited.
You know, we really are trying to drivechange in the industry, which is something that I know you're passionate about.
So thank you for that lovely intro.
Very passionate about it, and I know aboutit because you told me about it already.
So I'm, I got to learn from you.
But I, but I understand and Iappreciate what you're doing.
(01:55):
There's a lot of that we coulddig into what you're doing.
But why don't we just start withthe big news and why don't you give
us a little deeper understanding ofwhat's going on with the podcast.
You know, what kind of.
Conversations you're having,you, you're gonna have guests on.
Gimme the whole backstoryof what's going on here.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you again forhaving us on the unique CPA.
(02:15):
This is the perfect place to beable to announce that we're finally,
which you'll hear about a littlebit later because it took a while.
Yeah.
We're finally, finally launching.
This podcast passion Project,she counts as a real talk podcast for women in accounting.
And we've teamed up with earmark.
So you'll be able toget CPE for listening.
(02:37):
Nice.
And we're going to haveauthentic conversations about.
The, that Women in accounting face.
Yeah, I, I think our aim is really tobreak through the isolation that so
many women in accounting experience,Nancy and I both did ourselves.
So each episode is really supposed tobe like a virtual community where all
(03:00):
of the women, you know, tuning in andall of the bookkeepers and accountants.
And all the many differentroles in accounting can feel, seen, heard, and be understood.
And you know, we hope to do that bybringing up relatable, hopefully topics.
So we're really excited.
(03:21):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, we really, wewanna bring into the open.
Those taboo topics that, youknow, they're common challenges, they're unspoken questions.
That, to be honest, I mean, women inaccounting, they face every fricking day.
Yeah.
You know, like whether they're runningtheir own firms or they're working within organizations, I. We want to extend to
(03:41):
everyone out there, to every woman whohas ever struggled with a workplace
issue or questioned if her experiencesare normal, quote unquote or not.
We wanna extend our professional circlesto include them because it's an isolating place to be, as Questian was saying.
Yeah.
So I am not completely qualifiedto bring up what those issues are.
(04:06):
But let me tell you, I, I, Nancy,you and I may have discussed this once, and I don't remember if we did
or not, but I was out actually inPortland last year, two years ago.
I think I did talk to you about this.
Yep.
And I was bringing up horrorstories that I had in accounting.
It was my second job in accounting.
And it, to me, it wasjust a terrible thing.
And then the women that I was with,which there was a, a bunch of women, we were just out to dinner and it
(04:29):
was like, wow, I don't understandwhat a real horror story is.
Because, I mean, the gist of it was ifyou haven't, you know, locked yourself in the closet and cried at work, you
know, you haven't had a, a normalinteraction within the profession,
which I'm just, I, I am, I don't knowwhat the word is, but it's just like.
I mean, it makes me feel likeboggled, but it makes me feel sad that that's a reality, that everybody had
(04:55):
that same response to what they'vegone through in the profession.
Well, and what's really interestingtoo is that so many women, when you're bringing up these stories, right, there
are so many of us that have these stories,and I think for a long time you feel like you're alone or you only have that
story, and so then you start talkingto other women and you realize that.
(05:16):
Everybody seems to have one of thosestories, so we really want to help other women by kind of bringing
topics like that to the forefrontso that they don't feel so alone.
Absolutely.
And not just otherwomen not feeling alone.
But Randy, I have a question foryou that is, is related to this.
(05:37):
How did it change you as a cis white male,hearing those stories at that dinner?
How did it change the way thatyou then went out into the world and interacted with women?
Did it make you a better leader?
Did it make you a morecompassionate human being?
Because this podcast isn't just forthe women who are struggling with these things, the for all of the people in
(06:00):
the world to be able to see what's goingon and to make us all better people.
So what was your experience with that?
Yeah, my experience was for sureis like, how did I not know this?
Mm-hmm.
How is this not somethingthat I've seen or heard?
Because it was not, you know,there was 15 of us out to dinner,
I'm guessing 10 women, and itwas not one person saying this.
(06:22):
It was the entire table.
And I'm like, this issomething we need to.
To talk about, yeah, this is something wehave to figure out why this is happening.
We have to figure out what's going on.
And so from that standpoint, when I go outand present, I have a different mindset.
When I'm talking about culture, I have adifferent, you know, openness to realize that I don't know everybody's situation.
(06:45):
I think I've always thought that way,but it's like there's more going on out there than I realize and make
sure that you don't, you know, tryto fit everything into one bucket.
Absolutely.
That's so perfectly said.
I mean, women, women are actuallyhungry for community and validation and practical advice from peers,
like you're saying, you know, from,from the other people who actually understand their specific challenges.
(07:10):
I mean, Questian and I wantedthis for ourselves, right?
Yeah.
You know, this was somethingthat we craved, so yeah, we just decided to create it.
That's why we did it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's
get into that thing, becauseyou said there is a backstory.
There is a, it was a longprocess to get going.
When?
When did this, I mean, the brainstormbegin on this and what was like, the
tipping point is like, okay, we need todo this, and now how do we go about it?
(07:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think every timeNancy and I would get on a call
with each other, we would just havethese incredible conversations.
I call it conversational chemistry,and so we were having all of these topics come about continually between.
You know each other.
But we also realized that we werehaving these conversations with
(07:56):
other women in the community onWhatsApp, you know, at conferences.
And you know, both of us arevery fortunate that we have that community already because we are
able to go to those conferencesand we have been able to grow that.
But you know, we wanna make thatsomething that's accessible for everyone.
So I think I actually saidto Nancy as a joke, Hey.
(08:21):
Maybe we should make a podcastbecause I was like this.
She did.
I mean, because to her point, thebiggest motivation in deciding to launch this podcast is that it's what we each
wished we had had in our own livesas we were each starting our firms.
You know, I've run myfirm for, for 24 years.
(08:41):
And, and Questian, how longhave you been running yours?
Almost five.
And then before that, you worked in theaccounting industry at larger firms.
I worked at Deloitte, but in anoperational role, but then I worked at, in an accounting role at a nonprofit.
So, so we've got
lots of background mm-hmm.
And experience and throughout ourlives, I mean, we're basically Questian and I are our own target audience.
(09:06):
Women in accounting who wanna feel seenand heard, and have these real talk conversations about the realities we face.
You know, it's so isolating, Randy.
It really is.
It's so isolating until you find out, likein the Bridging the Gap vulnerability is a strength panel that I did last year.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when, when you find out thatothers in your community are struggling
(09:32):
with some of the same things that you'restruggling, it actually builds resilience.
And then you can, you know, if youhave resilience, you can bounce back when things get difficult.
Yeah, and I mean it took definitelya little bit of nudging it.
Two years and nudging bugging me,
and bugging me and bugging me becausefirst she said it as a joke and then she got this idea that, you
(09:58):
know, we actually took this textthread of ideas and we copied it to a Google doc that was the seed.
Right now we've got over30 episodes planned, but it started with this one text.
Thread that we copied to a Google doc, andshe kept bugging me and I kept saying, no.
I had turned down previous offers tohost a podcast, and I felt like I, I just, I don't have time for this, you
(10:21):
know, so it was a slow, slow, slowburn until it completely caught fire.
Yeah, and I, I learned that persistenceworks with Nancy too because I'll, I'll
share with you that when, that, when wemet each other through bookkeeping Buds,
(10:41):
I was like, wow, she is so.
Smart and bright, and, andthis is all in a Slack channel.
And I'm reading and communicating withher and I was like, Hey, you're amazing.
I wanna be friends.
And Nancy was like, yeah,I really don't have time.
But I didn't give up.
I didn't give up.
That's great.
Monster.
(11:01):
I'm a monster.
Well, I, she, she proved to mewhat a smart cookie she was.
And not only did we end up becomingfriends, but I was like, Hey.
Do you wanna do contract work for me?
So she was actually Oh, wow.
One of my team membersfor quite some time.
Nice.
I did not know that story.
All right.
Yeah.
While she was launching her own firm,it was pretty, it was wonderful.
(11:22):
So we know each other as friends, we knoweach other from bookkeeping buds and we know each other from working together.
So we've had lots of opportunitiesto discuss these unique challenges of being a woman in the field.
So what I hear is itwas a two year process.
It was over a chat,
probably longer.
(11:42):
And, and then so after this two yearprocess of going through everything and the persistence, the Questian
had not only becoming friends butworking together and then starting the podcast together, do you think.
Today is now the perfect time.
Have things got to a spotwhere maybe people are more open to these conversations?
(12:03):
Is just do you think this is the time?
Is there a reason?
Now is the time
I. I think that whenever there'sanything really important that
you wanna do, you can't do ityesterday and tomorrow's too late.
So today's always the perfect time, right?
This is when it's happening becausethis was, this was for us when it caught fire, because I sort of on a whim.
(12:31):
So I am a recipient of the Top50 Women in Accounting Award from ignition, and this year they decided
to change it and instead of givingthe award out every year, they're going to give it out every other year.
And in the opposite years, they're goingto be highlighting voices of alumni.
I. And to that end, they put togethera grant for projects that we're working on that affect women in the field.
(12:55):
And on a whim, I was just, you know,we've had this Google doc that we've
been adding to and adding to, andwe keep having these conversations.
And you know, I think at the point atwhich I, I did this, we probably had you know, a good 15 to 20 episodes already
planned for this imaginary podcastthat was going to happen in the future.
(13:16):
And on a whim, when I saw that they hadput this grant out there, I decided
to apply and they immediately wroteback and were like, this is amazing.
Yes, we wanna support it.
I mean, it was just immediate.
There's, they're suchwonderful people, so.
I got in touch with Questian and I waslike, well I think, I think that we're doing this because we just got a grant
(13:37):
for it and we decided we wanted to talkto earmark because we knew if we were gonna do this, we wanted to do it big.
Right?
Questian.
I mean, yeah, we wanted to
do it the right way.
We wanted to give it the, the bestchance at being successful that we could.
So, and we want CPE too, right?
So,
yeah, CPE is really
important for, for all of us.
So that was why now happened.
(13:59):
But I think if you look more closely atwhat is going on in the world right now, I mean, these have always been problems.
None of this is new, but.
There's no doubt that the currentattack on DEI is, it's painful.
Mm-hmm.
And it's terrifying.
But that's not where ourmotivation came from.
(14:20):
This is something that has alwaysbeen important, and what's different
is that now we are not talkingabout it around the water cooler.
We have the reach of earmark andpodcast hosting platforms that
have the power to help peoplefeel less alone while they're in.
Their own homes and home offices.
Right.
Questian.
Yeah, and I think it's important becauseI think until we get to the point where women feel truly represented in
(14:47):
their positions of leadership, and thenthey feel seen and heard in the roles that they occupy, you know, we have.
Equivalent salaries to men, for example.
It needs to be discussed andit needs to be talked about.
And so we need to keep pushingthe cart forward as much as we can.
And if you're not havingthose conversations, then you're not making progress.
And the, and it starts with.
(15:08):
People recognizing an acknowledgementand you know, we're looking for not just it's podcast for women listeners, we're
also looking for, you know, the men inour lives to get involved and to hear the stories and to, you know, as you
were saying earlier, Randy, to hear thatperspective and to then have it influence kind of decisions that you're making.
(15:28):
Yeah.
So that's really important too.
Do you think we're at amoment in time though, where people are more open to hear?
I mean, I, I think we're not a, any meansperfect, but I think we're better than we were five years ago, in my opinion
at, at least on some of the topics Italk about too with mental health and that if we got there with this, or is
this still lagging behind other areaswhere people are getting more likely to share stories and be vulnerable?
(15:55):
For me, I would say thatit depends who's listening.
It depends what community you're in.
It depends what conference you attend.
Mm-hmm.
Are people more willingto listen to stories?
About people who don't look likethem or think like them or have the same experiences as they do.
(16:16):
I'm not sure about that.
Mm-hmm.
I do think that people are becomingmore willing for our industry as a whole to be more honest about.
The challenges that we areexperiencing as accountants.
Okay.
Burnout is somethingthat you hear discussed.
(16:37):
Mental health is something youhear discussed in ways that we
didn't use to, which is in alarge part due to you, Randy.
I mean, I, I wanna put creditwhere, where credit is due here.
There's no, i, I, I see youshaking your head and I know
that our podcast listenerscannot see you shaking your head.
But it is, it is true.
You're the unique CPA podcast, theBridging the Gap conference, the keynotes that you're doing at the various
(17:02):
conferences, and just the inspiration thatyou are then giving others to take that torch and run with it, that kind of thing.
You know, I think that you'reseeing lots of different types of posts on LinkedIn, for example, of
people sharing real stories aboutthings that are happening to them.
Mm-hmm.
So, while I don't necessarilythink that the voices of.
Women and minorities and thedisabled and other people who have traditionally had their, their
(17:30):
voices suppressed or not been given amicrophone or not been given a stage.
I don't know that that'sgetting any better.
In fact, it might be getting worse rightnow, but I do think that the time is right for people to open their minds to having
honest conversations about the realitiesof what it means to work as an accountant.
Yeah.
And it has to start somewhere, right?
(17:51):
Somebody has to start it.
And I think what you see is the morepeople make themselves vulnerable and they share the stories and they bring
up the topics and the more other peoplefeel comfortable also talking about the same thing and sharing as well.
So yeah, I agree.
I'm not sure.
And, and one aspect, I think peopleare ready to listen and in another
one, another, like the politicalclimate feels like it, it, it's.
(18:14):
Yeah,
you're, you are, you are correct.
I, I, I think I, maybe I livea little too much in a bubble.
I live in bridging the Gap and uniqueCPA world, and maybe I don't get out enough in other areas because I, I feel
like at least we're, you are trying,we're trying to, to make a difference.
And
Randy, though, you makean excellent point.
(18:34):
When you talk about that bubble, that'sthe bubble, that Questian, and I. Get to live in right now because we have gone
to conferences for so many years andbuilt so many wonderful relationships with people in the community.
And we have these happy hour zoomsand we have WhatsApp groups and, and we have communities like Bookkeeping
(18:59):
Buds and Ask A CPA and realize, andyou know, so many groups out there.
We are.
All sort of living inthis bubble in a sense.
But there are zillions andzillions of people, especially women who don't have that.
And that's why this podcast is important.
(19:20):
It's this podcast is not justfor the people who already agree
with us, that these are topicsthat need to be talked about.
The, this podcast is to reach people inspaces where they're not feeling seen.
And they're not feeling heard and theydon't get the benefit of that bubble.
We wanna take our bubbleand we wanna make it bigger.
And we want to bring them into it.
(19:41):
Yeah.
And to Nancy's point, our plan is tohave it kind of formatted less like
interviews and more like a, you know,hey, we're going to have conversation.
We have you know, withan additional guest.
So just like as if we weremeeting at the coffee shop.
The three of us were gettingtogether and then we were talking about one of the topics.
And what we really wanna do is bringin other individuals that are either other accountants that are maybe
(20:08):
leaders at bigger firms or smallerfirms or are more diverse as well as,
you know, having guests on that canreally give perspective and different.
Different points of view,not just the two of us.
Yeah.
I mean, we don't want it to be like justtwo white girls complaining about men.
That is not what this podcast, Imean, this podcast could be that.
(20:29):
Right.
I won't say that Questian.
And I have never gone out for drinksand just had a conversation where we got together and complained about men.
That has happened in our lives.
But that's not this podcast, right?
No.
Sometimes it'll be just us.
Sometimes we'll have guests.
We have a long wishlist.
Some of them names we all know andsome are newcomers to accounting.
Some aren't in the industry, butthey're recognized subject matter.
(20:52):
Experts.
Experts, nice.
Yeah.
On issues that affect womenin all, in all professions.
So I love what Questian's saying about,we are trying to bring in voices of women who've had experiences that are, are not.
The same as ours.
There's a lot, as you were saying,from that dinner that everybody has experienced, but there are some things
that you're gonna experience that aredifferent if you're in a bigger firm or different if you're running your own firm.
(21:17):
Yeah, I mean, so we want thosevoices out there and we want them to reach people who need to hear them.
No, that sounds great.
Alright, so, so Questian you saidthis and add to you two, we're just talking about, you know, the
different types of individuals anddifferent positions within accounting.
And I'm no expert but lookingat statistics, there's actually more women in accounting.
You, I think it's, you know,anywhere from 60% women to 40% men.
(21:40):
I don't know if I, my numbersare right, but when you see.
The evolution or people growing the, theprofession seems like leadership becomes more male heavy or it not seems, believe
me, I been at conferences with leadingpartner conferences where it's 90% men it feels like in these conferences.
So a
CPA has actually done a lotof research on that and Yep.
(22:01):
And Questian, and I have, have looked upstatistics on it and the actual number
that you're looking for is women hold only19% of partner positions in CPA firms.
And if you look broader in, inbusiness context overall, it's only 14% in executive officer roles.
Yeah.
And we know that your numbersat between 50 and 60% of people in accounting are, are women.
(22:25):
So yes, please continue withwhat you're saying, but just to provide some data there.
So I've
read things before and.
I don't read a lot becauseI'm just not that smart.
But I've read some things before that.
I dunno why I said that.
Justin cut that out.
I've read things before and, and I trulybelieve it and I've seen an action where you have a diverse group in leadership.
(22:50):
It just makes an organizationthat much stronger.
So.
So when you're seeing this, not just withmen and women, but all different things,
but how do you see elevating differentkinds of people into leadership Really?
Do make a firm better.
Yeah.
Make a business better.
Help them be more successful.
Questian, do you wanna talk a bitabout the, the takeaways of that
DEI panel that you were on at,at scaling New Heights last year?
(23:12):
Well, I think one of the takeaways,which, well, I guess this is a
takeaway, but then I'll answerthe answer Randy's question after.
Yep.
The biggest takeaway wasthat it needs a bigger stage.
So we, you know, we hadit and it was great.
The session was great, but whatwe really needed is people to come in and we needed a bigger reach.
That's what we realized.
We really needed abigger reach, but mm-hmm.
(23:32):
You know, to answer the question,like how does it help, I mean,
if you're speaking about women inparticular, just think about, you know.
40% of small businessowners are actually women.
So if you think about serving yourclients and appropriately serving your, your clients, then you would want women
(23:54):
in leadership in your firm becauseyou're, they're going to help your firm because they offer that representation
they have, female's perspective onservicing those clients and when women feel seen and they feel heard, you know,
this definitely increases confidence andmotivation, and so having representation.
(24:16):
In a business that is familiar to you,it really can build up your confidence.
And one thing that I'll point out toois we, we talk about having pipeline issues and not just when it comes to
women, when we talk about, you know,people of different ethnicities and
different abilities, when you'relooking at where you wanna work.
(24:38):
People generally want to feel a sense ofbelonging in their environment, right?
So they're going to be looking attaking jobs in firms that are putting
people that they see themselvesin, in leadership positions.
And so if you want your firm to be able tohave a diverse set of clients and service
(25:00):
a diverse set of clients, then you needto have a diverse set of individuals.
Running your firm and working throughoutyour firm at all different levels?
I couldn't agree more.
I, I agree and I use that asan example a lot when I'm out speaking, because for the first.
10 years of trimer.
We were clones of me andwe, we did a nice job.
(25:21):
We grew decently, but when weintentionally got way more diverse in all areas of diverse, you know, whatever
it, it, sex or religion or, or whereyou're from or, or your abilities or
your thought process or your faithor whatever, that's when we took off.
Yeah.
'cause the, the, the, the diversityof thought was so important that we did not have before.
(25:44):
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I've heard, especiallyin like board of directors, when there's a mix of men and women in
there, it's just a much better situationis that story that I read before.
I'm excited.
I, I honestly.
Wanted to ask about, you know, how wecan even support women more in this, but I, the show's gonna talk about that.
So I don't know if we have to get deepinto that, unless you wanna spend a little time on how do we support women
(26:08):
at kind, how do we, you know, makesure women are better representative in leadership levels or is that gonna go.
Way too deep into the conversation.
Well, it, it's something thatneeds to be talked about, which is why we're starting this podcast.
Right, exactly.
So it's something that I think thatwe should touch on to some extent here, but it'll be a sneak peek.
Right.
Okay.
Let's do it.
(26:28):
As to what is is to come, wehave so many topics that we want to cover on this podcast.
We will never, ever, ever run out.
Topics to cover, but how we can supportwomen in accounting is, is obviously
going to be something that we returnto over and over and over again.
(26:49):
First, there's acknowledgingthat there's a problem.
Yep.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Questian talks often aboutrecognizing the cognitive bias.
Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?
Because I think that that's,that's where this all starts.
Yeah, of course.
So, I mean, you know, that'spart of the problem, right?
Is that we have these.
Ideas and thoughts that our brainshave been trained to think in
a certain way and we don't evenrecognize and know that it's happening.
(27:13):
And it doesn't make people badpeople, it just means that there are processes over many years of time
that have been kind of handed downthrough families, through generations
mm-hmm.
That
change the way or that are impactingthe way that we think about things.
And I think it's.
Important to recognize that we canchange those thought processes.
(27:36):
Mm-hmm.
Our brains are very plastic orhave a lot of plasticity until much later in lives, in our lives.
And so whenever a
Questian reminds me that our brains havea lot of plasticity, I'm always like.
So you're telling me youreally can teach an old dog?
I was like, you can.
I'm pretty excited about that.
That's right.
Yeah.
(27:57):
I believe that.
Yeah.
But to do that, you have to have a plan.
Yep.
Right?
Like you, you, one of the things that Ithink that frustrates me when people talk about like, what can we do to support.
Lots of the feedback thatwe get is very vague.
It's very like, oh, well we haveto change hiring practices, right?
(28:18):
Like, yes, we have to change hiringpractices, but how do we do that?
Well, we have to changehow we promote individuals.
Okay, yes, we have to dothat, but how do we do that?
And I love what Questiantalks about, she's like, okay, we need to be intentional.
About all of these decisions we're making.
We have to make sure we haverepresentation in leadership roles.
(28:42):
We have so many ways of thinking thatwe need to unlearn, but we're not gonna do that if we don't get men to buy in.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because it's notenough to have mentors.
Yeah.
That's right..
I mean, this is amazing.
I, I am truly looking forward tothis and we've teased some of what's gonna be going on on this, obviously,
and topics and guests occasionally,or sometimes in conversations and
(29:05):
sitting around the coffee shop,discussing things type of atmosphere.
But let's get into some,you said, you know, in this.
Google Sheet.
You had a list of topics.
Let's kind of get into the topicsthat you're, you're looking to address on the podcast.
Yeah, I think one of the most interestingones is probably one of our, it's going to be one of our earlier topics.
(29:27):
Initially, what we were like, oh,maybe we should call the podcast this, and it was Start with No, because I
think as women, we have a tendencyto continually say yes to everything.
So taking a step back and.
Starting with no and coming up withreasons why you need to say yes rather than the other way around.
Yeah.
So that's one we're very excited about.
(29:49):
Yeah, definitely.
That was the initial text conversationthat we saved to that Google doc and and then we realized naming
the podcast start with no, justsounded so negative and so we.
Conceptually it's a very positivething because then you're being very
intentional about saying yes to all ofthe things that you want to say yes to.
(30:11):
If you start with no.
So it's a very positive concept,but it's a very negative name.
So I think she counts is itis a much, oh, I love the
name.
You love the name Start with no.
Or you Love
She Counts.
No, I love She Counts.
Me too.
That's funny.
I love that name.
Me too.
I'm gonna make a plug for bridging the gaphere because one of the topics we're gonna come back to time and time again in the
(30:35):
podcast is vulnerability as a strength,which was the panel that I put together for last year's Bridging the Gap Questian,
and I are both going to be speaking atthis year's Bridging the Gap, which I am.
So excited about that'scoming up here in July.
And if you haven't, is, is earlybird pricing still going on?
Maybe May
31st.
(30:56):
Early bird pricing ends.
So we still have some time.
Alright.
Get on it.
Get on it.
I'm gonna be presenting with Al-Nesha andDawn Brolin on reasonable compensation.
I'm also going to be talking about,collaborating, effective collaboration
between bookkeepers and Tax Pros,which of course is what ask a CPA.
(31:16):
My community is all about Questian.
What are you gonna be
talking about?
I'm going to be talkingabout building resilience.
So it's, the title is BounceBack and Build Forward and it's Resilience Strategies for Thriving.
And it's actually a panel withmyself and then Shirley is going to moderate and Lynette will be.
(31:38):
I don't know if I'mgonna say her name right.
I don't know her last name.
I've ever said it O before.
Oss Connell.
Yes.
So Lynette Oss Connell is going tobe a panelist as well as Will Lopez.
So that's a powerhouse.
It's, you know, I mean,think that's a great group
of people.
We all have some stories to share,and so we're gonna share our stories and we're gonna talk about.
How building resilience canhelp, you know, personally, but
(32:00):
also in firms and professionallyand how, how you can do that.
So we're, I'm veryexcited about this topic.
All of us are really excited andit's near to all of our hearts.
And Bridging the
gap is just a killer conferenceand it's gonna be amazing to all be there together in person.
And of course, Randy, you know, youcannot have a podcast about women in any workplace without bringing up.
(32:24):
Me too.
Oh yeah.
Right.
We all
have horror stories and that surprise us,not just men like you were saying earlier,
but many women, as Questian was sayingearlier, they think they're the only one.
I mean, that's why itbecame a movement, right?
It literally has happened to everyone.
So Me too.
Crazy.
Definitely gonna be one of our topics.
Yes.
(32:44):
It needs be.
Yeah.
Yep.
And Questians.
A topic that is nearand dear to her heart.
Yeah, we want to talk aboutmentorship in the industry.
I was having a conversation with someonethat I've been mentoring and is a dear friend of mine, and before I share that
conversation, I will say that, you know,Nancy has been a mentor for me and.
(33:10):
The amount of mentorship that she has donefor me and has really inspired me to kind of give that back as well to other women.
So thank you.
Questian.
Yeah, of course.
I'm, I'm very grateful.
So mentorship is important to both of us.
And I was also recently talking tosomebody that I've kind of been mentoring and she made a very insightful comment
(33:35):
and she said to me, we see in eachother what we fail to see in ourselves.
And I just thought that was veryprofound because when women are having these conversations with each other.
We tend to be, I don't know if it'sbeing humble or if it can be imposter
syndrome or lack of self-confidence,but we're hard on ourselves.
(33:57):
And when you have those relationshipsand that mentorship dynamic.
You see in each other often whatyou don't see in yourselves.
And so I think it's really importantto have those relationships because we
really build one another up and helpeach other highlight our strengths.
Yep.
And community.
Yeah.
And part of that, just knowing otherpeople are out there and, and what they're doing and what they've been
(34:21):
through and how they've solved whateversituation that they're dealing with.
Community is, I thinksuch a big part of what.
Helps this profession and we allgot to hang out together at plenty of places, and I always enjoy that.
So
yes.
Yeah,
we really
do have a great community.
Yep.
We really do.
We're so lucky, and it's going tobe even bigger and even stronger once this podcast reaches people
(34:45):
who don't have that community, theyhaven't had the opportunities that we have had to connect with each
other at these various conferencesand events like Bridging the Gap.
Pull them into our bubble and bringthem into the community and have them experience the benefits of
what it means when we all supporteach other and we're all looking out for each other's best interests.
(35:09):
Yeah, that, that sounds great.
All right.
Before we wrap things up,we have to give some data.
When's this launching?
Where's it launching?
Yeah, we're, we're shooting formid-May, so just keep your eyes peeled on our LinkedIn profiles.
I'm on LinkedIn at Nancy McClelland cpa.
(35:31):
And Questian, I think
it's Questian Tel ea. Yep.
But I mean, my name's pretty unique,so I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure if you search it, you can find it,
it's like the word question, butwith an a n instead of an ON.
Also I have a regular MSN column and Iwill definitely be talking about this.
So if you follow my MSN columnand of course on earmark yes.
(35:52):
If you are not already using earmark forearning CPE for listening to podcasts.
Get over there and, and sign upbecause they're amazing and they're gonna be doing some promo as well.
If you have any questions oryou're interested in becoming a
sponsor, please email me at Shecounts@thedancingaccountant.com or.
(36:16):
You can reach out to Questian.
Yeah, you can reach outto me, not Questian.
It's, it's, she counts Thatis not the email address.
It's, she counts@reconcilefinancials.com.
And that's R-E-Q-O-N-C-I-L-E.
We, we like to do plays on words.
Around here, so Nice.
(36:36):
And, and we will put thosein the show notes too.
So we should have thecorrect spelling and links and everything in the show notes.
And I am super excited to see thisgo and, and to listen to it.
And it'll definitely be on my playlistand I'm excited to thank you, Randy.
Learn as much as I can to see if Ican do my part to be an advocate
and ally to support and promote theconference and women in the profession.
(37:01):
We are very excited about the podcast.
Thank you so much for bringing usonto The Unique CPA to announce it.
This is our big launch announcement.
Randy, this is, this is it.
Believe me.
I'm
honored.
This is I'm, I'm like, wow.
This is, this is pretty cool.
We've got breaking news herethat we're sharing today.
Yeah.
So very exciting.
(37:22):
So I wanna ask one last question,Nancy, you can chime in.
And, 'cause we do this, even thoughthis is a, a big announcement podcast, I'd have to do this every podcast.
'cause I just love hearing whatpeople do when they're not working.
And so I'll know, Nancy, if youwanna answer first and then Questian cam, but you know, when we're not.
Not promoting she counts.
You're not promoting movingforward in the profession.
You're not doing your workinside your businesses.
(37:44):
What do you do for fun?
What's your outside the work passions?
Nancy, you wanna go again?
Obviously given that my company's nameis literally the dancing accountant,
I'm guessing your listeners can,can guess that I love to dance.
I. Specifically love to dance to 1960s.
Go-Go music.
(38:05):
So thank Nancy Sinatra.
These boots are made for walk-in.
That's my favorite thing to do.
I also love museums.
I will go to literally any museum.
I'm there and if you're also a museumperson and we're at a conference together, ping me and and let's do it.
Nice.
Questian.
(38:26):
I have to follow that up andsay, I also love to dance, but to a different style of music.
Mm-hmm.
Which anybody who knowsme well knows that I do.
I do plenty of dancing.
What's your favorite styleof music for dancing?
Electronic dance music.
Yeah.
I had a feeling.
Yeah.
How did you know?
And you know, and travelingwith friends to see shows, but also just travel in general.
(38:49):
And in fact, on Friday I'mtaking my son to Paris.
So nice.
We're very excited about that.
So excited.
First time for that.
That's, yeah, both of our first times.
We're gonna experienceit first for both of us.
He's 14, so we're both really excited.
We're gonna gain 10pounds while we're there.
Hey, Randy, what kind ofmusic do you dance to?
Zero.
(39:11):
Come on.
I.
I don't dance.
I, I honestly, I have a mental blockwith dancing and I wanna get past
it help you, but it can't be in thecrowd, be so, it has to be beautiful.
It has to be in a small area firstwhere I can get more comfortable.
I'm pretty confident, and most everythingI do, dancing is not something that I feel very self-conscious when I'm dancing.
(39:36):
Okay.
We're gonna work on that.
I've got something for you thatis gonna be a ton of fun that I'm gonna, that we're gonna do.
Bridging the Gap.
I've got some ideas.
Well, I am three weeks into kneereplacement surgery right now, so I won't be dancing for a while.
But by, oh, you've been hiking like crazy.
I have been hiking, which is insane.
I shouldn't have recovered thisfast from surgery, but I'm super fortunate that it's going much faster.
(40:00):
Me.
That's amazing than anybodycould have expected.
That's really amazing.
Yeah.
It's wonderful.
I'm so glad.
Yep.
All right.
Well thanks again, bothof you for being on.
I look forward to seeing you bothI'm sure, before bridging the gap somewhere out in the real world.
Yes, yes.
We'll, we'll be at Scaling New Heights,so let's, we'll see you in June and well,
and Randy, I will see you next monthas we celebrate our birthdays together.
(40:21):
Oh, that's
right.
In Chicago,
you'll, but not on my birthday.
'cause I'm camping that day.
So the week and I am hostinga, an event from the campsite.
I just got asked for, oh, sounds fun.
For financial sense, actually,that we just gave Financial Sense.
A plug.
They're doing a, a post-tax season.
(40:42):
I am going to be performing atFinancial Senses not just performing.
I'm gonna be teaching people to dance.
At the financial senseon, on May 2nd, right?
Yeah,
that's the day.
That's the day, yeah.
That's your,
yeah, I will be there as well.
I'm going to be teaching people how to doa couple of dances to kind of shake off
the tax season, you know, get your jointsmoving and, and celebrate our freedom.
(41:06):
So yeah, I'll see you there, Randy.
Well, I
will learn to dance online.
I'll be at the campsite doing it withjust Kathy, so nobody will able to
see.
All right.
Any final thoughts before we close it up?
It's been a lot of fun.
Thank you so much for having us and forgiving us a platform to share this project that, you know, means a lot to both of us.
(41:28):
So really appreciate it.
We're very excited.
Absolutely.
You
are the most.
Nice and fun person that I know.
That's our model.
Nice and fun.
So
nice and fun.
Just don't ask him to dance.
That's not fun.
Eventually, maybe, I don'tknow, at 62, can that happen?
I'll see one day.
One day.
We'll get there, but, all right.
Well, thank you both for
being here.
(41:48):
Thank you, Randy.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining ustoday on The Unique CPA.
You can find the show notes fortoday's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit, at TheUniqueCPA.com.
Remember to subscribe andleave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app.
And join us next time for more expertiseand insights on The Unique CPA.
(42:14):
ProfessionalProductions.net.
Hello, and welcome to The UniqueCPA with your host, Randy Crabtree.
(00:04):
We are committed to creating a thrivingcommunity of accounting professionals
who are physically and mentally healthy,fulfilled, and energized by their work.
Our ultimate goal is to elevatethe reputation of the accounting
profession and vastly improvedthe lives of those in it.
The Unique CPA is broughtto you by Tri-Merit, the specialty tax professionals.
Today on The Unique CPA, I'm thrilledto welcome two incredible professionals who are not only experts in their
(00:30):
fields, but are now joining forcesto launch something truly important for the accounting profession.
Nancy McClelland and Questian Teka.
They are now the co-host of thebrand new podcast called She Counts, which I'm excited to discuss today.
And together they are creating aspace to explore the experiences
of women in accounting challengeoutdated industry norms and.
(00:53):
Elevate stories that too often go unheard.
We're going to be talking about whyshe counts matters, what inspired them to create it, and how they're
hoping to drive change, which Ilove change in the profession while having some fun along the way.
Plus, you'll hear a bit abouttheir upcoming sessions at this year's Bridging The Gap Conference.
Nancy, Questian.
(01:14):
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, Randy.
Thank you so much for having us.
We're happy to be here.
As anybody listening doesn'trealize, it took me like three tries to get that intro done.
So we got it done, at least,and now we're ready to go.
So you did a
beautiful job.
That was a, that was a gorgeous introat, because not only what is, was
(01:34):
it really, it was really lovely, butit was, you get what we're doing.
That makes me so excited.
You know, we really are trying to drivechange in the industry, which is something that I know you're passionate about.
So thank you for that lovely intro.
Very passionate about it, and I know aboutit because you told me about it already.
So I'm, I got to learn from you.
But I, but I understand and Iappreciate what you're doing.
(01:55):
There's a lot of that we coulddig into what you're doing.
But why don't we just start withthe big news and why don't you give
us a little deeper understanding ofwhat's going on with the podcast.
You know, what kind of.
Conversations you're having,you, you're gonna have guests on.
Gimme the whole backstoryof what's going on here.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you again forhaving us on the unique CPA.
(02:15):
This is the perfect place to beable to announce that we're finally,
which you'll hear about a littlebit later because it took a while.
Yeah.
We're finally, finally launching.
This podcast passion Project,she counts as a real talk podcast for women in accounting.
And we've teamed up with earmark.
So you'll be able toget CPE for listening.
(02:37):
Nice.
And we're going to haveauthentic conversations about.
The, that Women in accounting face.
Yeah, I, I think our aim is really tobreak through the isolation that so
many women in accounting experience,Nancy and I both did ourselves.
So each episode is really supposed tobe like a virtual community where all
(03:00):
of the women, you know, tuning in andall of the bookkeepers and accountants.
And all the many differentroles in accounting can feel, seen, heard, and be understood.
And you know, we hope to do that bybringing up relatable, hopefully topics.
So we're really excited.
(03:21):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, we really, wewanna bring into the open.
Those taboo topics that, youknow, they're common challenges, they're unspoken questions.
That, to be honest, I mean, women inaccounting, they face every fricking day.
Yeah.
You know, like whether they're runningtheir own firms or they're working within organizations, I. We want to extend to
(03:41):
everyone out there, to every woman whohas ever struggled with a workplace
issue or questioned if her experiencesare normal, quote unquote or not.
We wanna extend our professional circlesto include them because it's an isolating place to be, as Questian was saying.
Yeah.
So I am not completely qualifiedto bring up what those issues are.
(04:06):
But let me tell you, I, I, Nancy,you and I may have discussed this once, and I don't remember if we did
or not, but I was out actually inPortland last year, two years ago.
I think I did talk to you about this.
Yep.
And I was bringing up horrorstories that I had in accounting.
It was my second job in accounting.
And it, to me, it wasjust a terrible thing.
And then the women that I was with,which there was a, a bunch of women, we were just out to dinner and it
(04:29):
was like, wow, I don't understandwhat a real horror story is.
Because, I mean, the gist of it was ifyou haven't, you know, locked yourself in the closet and cried at work, you
know, you haven't had a, a normalinteraction within the profession,
which I'm just, I, I am, I don't knowwhat the word is, but it's just like.
I mean, it makes me feel likeboggled, but it makes me feel sad that that's a reality, that everybody had
(04:55):
that same response to what they'vegone through in the profession.
Well, and what's really interestingtoo is that so many women, when you're bringing up these stories, right, there
are so many of us that have these stories,and I think for a long time you feel like you're alone or you only have that
story, and so then you start talkingto other women and you realize that.
(05:16):
Everybody seems to have one of thosestories, so we really want to help other women by kind of bringing
topics like that to the forefrontso that they don't feel so alone.
Absolutely.
And not just otherwomen not feeling alone.
But Randy, I have a question foryou that is, is related to this.
(05:37):
How did it change you as a cis white male,hearing those stories at that dinner?
How did it change the way thatyou then went out into the world and interacted with women?
Did it make you a better leader?
Did it make you a morecompassionate human being?
Because this podcast isn't just forthe women who are struggling with these things, the for all of the people in
(06:00):
the world to be able to see what's goingon and to make us all better people.
So what was your experience with that?
Yeah, my experience was for sureis like, how did I not know this?
Mm-hmm.
How is this not somethingthat I've seen or heard?
Because it was not, you know,there was 15 of us out to dinner,
I'm guessing 10 women, and itwas not one person saying this.
(06:22):
It was the entire table.
And I'm like, this issomething we need to.
To talk about, yeah, this is something wehave to figure out why this is happening.
We have to figure out what's going on.
And so from that standpoint, when I go outand present, I have a different mindset.
When I'm talking about culture, I have adifferent, you know, openness to realize that I don't know everybody's situation.
(06:45):
I think I've always thought that way,but it's like there's more going on out there than I realize and make
sure that you don't, you know, tryto fit everything into one bucket.
Absolutely.
That's so perfectly said.
I mean, women, women are actuallyhungry for community and validation and practical advice from peers,
like you're saying, you know, from,from the other people who actually understand their specific challenges.
(07:10):
I mean, Questian and I wantedthis for ourselves, right?
Yeah.
You know, this was somethingthat we craved, so yeah, we just decided to create it.
That's why we did it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's
get into that thing, becauseyou said there is a backstory.
There is a, it was a longprocess to get going.
When?
When did this, I mean, the brainstormbegin on this and what was like, the
tipping point is like, okay, we need todo this, and now how do we go about it?
(07:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think every timeNancy and I would get on a call
with each other, we would just havethese incredible conversations.
I call it conversational chemistry,and so we were having all of these topics come about continually between.
You know each other.
But we also realized that we werehaving these conversations with
(07:56):
other women in the community onWhatsApp, you know, at conferences.
And you know, both of us arevery fortunate that we have that community already because we are
able to go to those conferencesand we have been able to grow that.
But you know, we wanna make thatsomething that's accessible for everyone.
So I think I actually saidto Nancy as a joke, Hey.
(08:21):
Maybe we should make a podcastbecause I was like this.
She did.
I mean, because to her point, thebiggest motivation in deciding to launch this podcast is that it's what we each
wished we had had in our own livesas we were each starting our firms.
You know, I've run myfirm for, for 24 years.
(08:41):
And, and Questian, how longhave you been running yours?
Almost five.
And then before that, you worked in theaccounting industry at larger firms.
I worked at Deloitte, but in anoperational role, but then I worked at, in an accounting role at a nonprofit.
So, so we've got
lots of background mm-hmm.
And experience and throughout ourlives, I mean, we're basically Questian and I are our own target audience.
(09:06):
Women in accounting who wanna feel seenand heard, and have these real talk conversations about the realities we face.
You know, it's so isolating, Randy.
It really is.
It's so isolating until you find out, likein the Bridging the Gap vulnerability is a strength panel that I did last year.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when, when you find out thatothers in your community are struggling
(09:32):
with some of the same things that you'restruggling, it actually builds resilience.
And then you can, you know, if youhave resilience, you can bounce back when things get difficult.
Yeah, and I mean it took definitelya little bit of nudging it.
Two years and nudging bugging me,
and bugging me and bugging me becausefirst she said it as a joke and then she got this idea that, you
(09:58):
know, we actually took this textthread of ideas and we copied it to a Google doc that was the seed.
Right now we've got over30 episodes planned, but it started with this one text.
Thread that we copied to a Google doc, andshe kept bugging me and I kept saying, no.
I had turned down previous offers tohost a podcast, and I felt like I, I just, I don't have time for this, you
(10:21):
know, so it was a slow, slow, slowburn until it completely caught fire.
Yeah, and I, I learned that persistenceworks with Nancy too because I'll, I'll
share with you that when, that, when wemet each other through bookkeeping Buds,
(10:41):
I was like, wow, she is so.
Smart and bright, and, andthis is all in a Slack channel.
And I'm reading and communicating withher and I was like, Hey, you're amazing.
I wanna be friends.
And Nancy was like, yeah,I really don't have time.
But I didn't give up.
I didn't give up.
That's great.
Monster.
(11:01):
I'm a monster.
Well, I, she, she proved to mewhat a smart cookie she was.
And not only did we end up becomingfriends, but I was like, Hey.
Do you wanna do contract work for me?
So she was actually Oh, wow.
One of my team membersfor quite some time.
Nice.
I did not know that story.
All right.
Yeah.
While she was launching her own firm,it was pretty, it was wonderful.
(11:22):
So we know each other as friends, we knoweach other from bookkeeping buds and we know each other from working together.
So we've had lots of opportunitiesto discuss these unique challenges of being a woman in the field.
So what I hear is itwas a two year process.
It was over a chat,
probably longer.
(11:42):
And, and then so after this two yearprocess of going through everything and the persistence, the Questian
had not only becoming friends butworking together and then starting the podcast together, do you think.
Today is now the perfect time.
Have things got to a spotwhere maybe people are more open to these conversations?
(12:03):
Is just do you think this is the time?
Is there a reason?
Now is the time
I. I think that whenever there'sanything really important that
you wanna do, you can't do ityesterday and tomorrow's too late.
So today's always the perfect time, right?
This is when it's happening becausethis was, this was for us when it caught fire, because I sort of on a whim.
(12:31):
So I am a recipient of the Top50 Women in Accounting Award from ignition, and this year they decided
to change it and instead of givingthe award out every year, they're going to give it out every other year.
And in the opposite years, they're goingto be highlighting voices of alumni.
I. And to that end, they put togethera grant for projects that we're working on that affect women in the field.
(12:55):
And on a whim, I was just, you know,we've had this Google doc that we've
been adding to and adding to, andwe keep having these conversations.
And you know, I think at the point atwhich I, I did this, we probably had you know, a good 15 to 20 episodes already
planned for this imaginary podcastthat was going to happen in the future.
(13:16):
And on a whim, when I saw that they hadput this grant out there, I decided
to apply and they immediately wroteback and were like, this is amazing.
Yes, we wanna support it.
I mean, it was just immediate.
There's, they're suchwonderful people, so.
I got in touch with Questian and I waslike, well I think, I think that we're doing this because we just got a grant
(13:37):
for it and we decided we wanted to talkto earmark because we knew if we were gonna do this, we wanted to do it big.
Right?
Questian.
I mean, yeah, we wanted to
do it the right way.
We wanted to give it the, the bestchance at being successful that we could.
So, and we want CPE too, right?
So,
yeah, CPE is really
important for, for all of us.
So that was why now happened.
(13:59):
But I think if you look more closely atwhat is going on in the world right now, I mean, these have always been problems.
None of this is new, but.
There's no doubt that the currentattack on DEI is, it's painful.
Mm-hmm.
And it's terrifying.
But that's not where ourmotivation came from.
(14:20):
This is something that has alwaysbeen important, and what's different
is that now we are not talkingabout it around the water cooler.
We have the reach of earmark andpodcast hosting platforms that
have the power to help peoplefeel less alone while they're in.
Their own homes and home offices.
Right.
Questian.
Yeah, and I think it's important becauseI think until we get to the point where women feel truly represented in
(14:47):
their positions of leadership, and thenthey feel seen and heard in the roles that they occupy, you know, we have.
Equivalent salaries to men, for example.
It needs to be discussed andit needs to be talked about.
And so we need to keep pushingthe cart forward as much as we can.
And if you're not havingthose conversations, then you're not making progress.
And the, and it starts with.
(15:08):
People recognizing an acknowledgementand you know, we're looking for not just it's podcast for women listeners, we're
also looking for, you know, the men inour lives to get involved and to hear the stories and to, you know, as you
were saying earlier, Randy, to hear thatperspective and to then have it influence kind of decisions that you're making.
(15:28):
Yeah.
So that's really important too.
Do you think we're at amoment in time though, where people are more open to hear?
I mean, I, I think we're not a, any meansperfect, but I think we're better than we were five years ago, in my opinion
at, at least on some of the topics Italk about too with mental health and that if we got there with this, or is
this still lagging behind other areaswhere people are getting more likely to share stories and be vulnerable?
(15:55):
For me, I would say thatit depends who's listening.
It depends what community you're in.
It depends what conference you attend.
Mm-hmm.
Are people more willingto listen to stories?
About people who don't look likethem or think like them or have the same experiences as they do.
(16:16):
I'm not sure about that.
Mm-hmm.
I do think that people are becomingmore willing for our industry as a whole to be more honest about.
The challenges that we areexperiencing as accountants.
Okay.
Burnout is somethingthat you hear discussed.
(16:37):
Mental health is something youhear discussed in ways that we
didn't use to, which is in alarge part due to you, Randy.
I mean, I, I wanna put creditwhere, where credit is due here.
There's no, i, I, I see youshaking your head and I know
that our podcast listenerscannot see you shaking your head.
But it is, it is true.
You're the unique CPA podcast, theBridging the Gap conference, the keynotes that you're doing at the various
(17:02):
conferences, and just the inspiration thatyou are then giving others to take that torch and run with it, that kind of thing.
You know, I think that you'reseeing lots of different types of posts on LinkedIn, for example, of
people sharing real stories aboutthings that are happening to them.
Mm-hmm.
So, while I don't necessarilythink that the voices of.
Women and minorities and thedisabled and other people who have traditionally had their, their
(17:30):
voices suppressed or not been given amicrophone or not been given a stage.
I don't know that that'sgetting any better.
In fact, it might be getting worse rightnow, but I do think that the time is right for people to open their minds to having
honest conversations about the realitiesof what it means to work as an accountant.
Yeah.
And it has to start somewhere, right?
(17:51):
Somebody has to start it.
And I think what you see is the morepeople make themselves vulnerable and they share the stories and they bring
up the topics and the more other peoplefeel comfortable also talking about the same thing and sharing as well.
So yeah, I agree.
I'm not sure.
And, and one aspect, I think peopleare ready to listen and in another
one, another, like the politicalclimate feels like it, it, it's.
(18:14):
Yeah,
you're, you are, you are correct.
I, I, I think I, maybe I livea little too much in a bubble.
I live in bridging the Gap and uniqueCPA world, and maybe I don't get out enough in other areas because I, I feel
like at least we're, you are trying,we're trying to, to make a difference.
And
Randy, though, you makean excellent point.
(18:34):
When you talk about that bubble, that'sthe bubble, that Questian, and I. Get to live in right now because we have gone
to conferences for so many years andbuilt so many wonderful relationships with people in the community.
And we have these happy hour zoomsand we have WhatsApp groups and, and we have communities like Bookkeeping
(18:59):
Buds and Ask A CPA and realize, andyou know, so many groups out there.
We are.
All sort of living inthis bubble in a sense.
But there are zillions andzillions of people, especially women who don't have that.
And that's why this podcast is important.
(19:20):
It's this podcast is not justfor the people who already agree
with us, that these are topicsthat need to be talked about.
The, this podcast is to reach people inspaces where they're not feeling seen.
And they're not feeling heard and theydon't get the benefit of that bubble.
We wanna take our bubbleand we wanna make it bigger.
And we want to bring them into it.
(19:41):
Yeah.
And to Nancy's point, our plan is tohave it kind of formatted less like
interviews and more like a, you know,hey, we're going to have conversation.
We have you know, withan additional guest.
So just like as if we weremeeting at the coffee shop.
The three of us were gettingtogether and then we were talking about one of the topics.
And what we really wanna do is bringin other individuals that are either other accountants that are maybe
(20:08):
leaders at bigger firms or smallerfirms or are more diverse as well as,
you know, having guests on that canreally give perspective and different.
Different points of view,not just the two of us.
Yeah.
I mean, we don't want it to be like justtwo white girls complaining about men.
That is not what this podcast, Imean, this podcast could be that.
(20:29):
Right.
I won't say that Questian.
And I have never gone out for drinksand just had a conversation where we got together and complained about men.
That has happened in our lives.
But that's not this podcast, right?
No.
Sometimes it'll be just us.
Sometimes we'll have guests.
We have a long wishlist.
Some of them names we all know andsome are newcomers to accounting.
Some aren't in the industry, butthey're recognized subject matter.
(20:52):
Experts.
Experts, nice.
Yeah.
On issues that affect womenin all, in all professions.
So I love what Questian's saying about,we are trying to bring in voices of women who've had experiences that are, are not.
The same as ours.
There's a lot, as you were saying,from that dinner that everybody has experienced, but there are some things
that you're gonna experience that aredifferent if you're in a bigger firm or different if you're running your own firm.
(21:17):
Yeah, I mean, so we want thosevoices out there and we want them to reach people who need to hear them.
No, that sounds great.
Alright, so, so Questian you saidthis and add to you two, we're just talking about, you know, the
different types of individuals anddifferent positions within accounting.
And I'm no expert but lookingat statistics, there's actually more women in accounting.
You, I think it's, you know,anywhere from 60% women to 40% men.
(21:40):
I don't know if I, my numbersare right, but when you see.
The evolution or people growing the, theprofession seems like leadership becomes more male heavy or it not seems, believe
me, I been at conferences with leadingpartner conferences where it's 90% men it feels like in these conferences.
So a
CPA has actually done a lotof research on that and Yep.
(22:01):
And Questian, and I have, have looked upstatistics on it and the actual number
that you're looking for is women hold only19% of partner positions in CPA firms.
And if you look broader in, inbusiness context overall, it's only 14% in executive officer roles.
Yeah.
And we know that your numbersat between 50 and 60% of people in accounting are, are women.
(22:25):
So yes, please continue withwhat you're saying, but just to provide some data there.
So I've
read things before and.
I don't read a lot becauseI'm just not that smart.
But I've read some things before that.
I dunno why I said that.
Justin cut that out.
I've read things before and, and I trulybelieve it and I've seen an action where you have a diverse group in leadership.
(22:50):
It just makes an organizationthat much stronger.
So.
So when you're seeing this, not just withmen and women, but all different things,
but how do you see elevating differentkinds of people into leadership Really?
Do make a firm better.
Yeah.
Make a business better.
Help them be more successful.
Questian, do you wanna talk a bitabout the, the takeaways of that
DEI panel that you were on at,at scaling New Heights last year?
(23:12):
Well, I think one of the takeaways,which, well, I guess this is a
takeaway, but then I'll answerthe answer Randy's question after.
Yep.
The biggest takeaway wasthat it needs a bigger stage.
So we, you know, we hadit and it was great.
The session was great, but whatwe really needed is people to come in and we needed a bigger reach.
That's what we realized.
We really needed abigger reach, but mm-hmm.
(23:32):
You know, to answer the question,like how does it help, I mean,
if you're speaking about women inparticular, just think about, you know.
40% of small businessowners are actually women.
So if you think about serving yourclients and appropriately serving your, your clients, then you would want women
(23:54):
in leadership in your firm becauseyou're, they're going to help your firm because they offer that representation
they have, female's perspective onservicing those clients and when women feel seen and they feel heard, you know,
this definitely increases confidence andmotivation, and so having representation.
(24:16):
In a business that is familiar to you,it really can build up your confidence.
And one thing that I'll point out toois we, we talk about having pipeline issues and not just when it comes to
women, when we talk about, you know,people of different ethnicities and
different abilities, when you'relooking at where you wanna work.
(24:38):
People generally want to feel a sense ofbelonging in their environment, right?
So they're going to be looking attaking jobs in firms that are putting
people that they see themselvesin, in leadership positions.
And so if you want your firm to be able tohave a diverse set of clients and service
(25:00):
a diverse set of clients, then you needto have a diverse set of individuals.
Running your firm and working throughoutyour firm at all different levels?
I couldn't agree more.
I, I agree and I use that asan example a lot when I'm out speaking, because for the first.
10 years of trimer.
We were clones of me andwe, we did a nice job.
(25:21):
We grew decently, but when weintentionally got way more diverse in all areas of diverse, you know, whatever
it, it, sex or religion or, or whereyou're from or, or your abilities or
your thought process or your faithor whatever, that's when we took off.
Yeah.
'cause the, the, the, the diversityof thought was so important that we did not have before.
(25:44):
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I've heard, especiallyin like board of directors, when there's a mix of men and women in
there, it's just a much better situationis that story that I read before.
I'm excited.
I, I honestly.
Wanted to ask about, you know, how wecan even support women more in this, but I, the show's gonna talk about that.
So I don't know if we have to get deepinto that, unless you wanna spend a little time on how do we support women
(26:08):
at kind, how do we, you know, makesure women are better representative in leadership levels or is that gonna go.
Way too deep into the conversation.
Well, it, it's something thatneeds to be talked about, which is why we're starting this podcast.
Right, exactly.
So it's something that I think thatwe should touch on to some extent here, but it'll be a sneak peek.
Right.
Okay.
Let's do it.
(26:28):
As to what is is to come, wehave so many topics that we want to cover on this podcast.
We will never, ever, ever run out.
Topics to cover, but how we can supportwomen in accounting is, is obviously
going to be something that we returnto over and over and over again.
(26:49):
First, there's acknowledgingthat there's a problem.
Yep.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Questian talks often aboutrecognizing the cognitive bias.
Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?
Because I think that that's,that's where this all starts.
Yeah, of course.
So, I mean, you know, that'spart of the problem, right?
Is that we have these.
Ideas and thoughts that our brainshave been trained to think in
a certain way and we don't evenrecognize and know that it's happening.
(27:13):
And it doesn't make people badpeople, it just means that there are processes over many years of time
that have been kind of handed downthrough families, through generations
mm-hmm.
That
change the way or that are impactingthe way that we think about things.
And I think it's.
Important to recognize that we canchange those thought processes.
(27:36):
Mm-hmm.
Our brains are very plastic orhave a lot of plasticity until much later in lives, in our lives.
And so whenever a
Questian reminds me that our brains havea lot of plasticity, I'm always like.
So you're telling me youreally can teach an old dog?
I was like, you can.
I'm pretty excited about that.
That's right.
Yeah.
(27:57):
I believe that.
Yeah.
But to do that, you have to have a plan.
Yep.
Right?
Like you, you, one of the things that Ithink that frustrates me when people talk about like, what can we do to support.
Lots of the feedback thatwe get is very vague.
It's very like, oh, well we haveto change hiring practices, right?
(28:18):
Like, yes, we have to change hiringpractices, but how do we do that?
Well, we have to changehow we promote individuals.
Okay, yes, we have to dothat, but how do we do that?
And I love what Questiantalks about, she's like, okay, we need to be intentional.
About all of these decisions we're making.
We have to make sure we haverepresentation in leadership roles.
(28:42):
We have so many ways of thinking thatwe need to unlearn, but we're not gonna do that if we don't get men to buy in.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because it's notenough to have mentors.
Yeah.
That's right..
I mean, this is amazing.
I, I am truly looking forward tothis and we've teased some of what's gonna be going on on this, obviously,
and topics and guests occasionally,or sometimes in conversations and
(29:05):
sitting around the coffee shop,discussing things type of atmosphere.
But let's get into some,you said, you know, in this.
Google Sheet.
You had a list of topics.
Let's kind of get into the topicsthat you're, you're looking to address on the podcast.
Yeah, I think one of the most interestingones is probably one of our, it's going to be one of our earlier topics.
(29:27):
Initially, what we were like, oh,maybe we should call the podcast this, and it was Start with No, because I
think as women, we have a tendencyto continually say yes to everything.
So taking a step back and.
Starting with no and coming up withreasons why you need to say yes rather than the other way around.
Yeah.
So that's one we're very excited about.
(29:49):
Yeah, definitely.
That was the initial text conversationthat we saved to that Google doc and and then we realized naming
the podcast start with no, justsounded so negative and so we.
Conceptually it's a very positivething because then you're being very
intentional about saying yes to all ofthe things that you want to say yes to.
(30:11):
If you start with no.
So it's a very positive concept,but it's a very negative name.
So I think she counts is itis a much, oh, I love the
name.
You love the name Start with no.
Or you Love
She Counts.
No, I love She Counts.
Me too.
That's funny.
I love that name.
Me too.
I'm gonna make a plug for bridging the gaphere because one of the topics we're gonna come back to time and time again in the
(30:35):
podcast is vulnerability as a strength,which was the panel that I put together for last year's Bridging the Gap Questian,
and I are both going to be speaking atthis year's Bridging the Gap, which I am.
So excited about that'scoming up here in July.
And if you haven't, is, is earlybird pricing still going on?
Maybe May
31st.
(30:56):
Early bird pricing ends.
So we still have some time.
Alright.
Get on it.
Get on it.
I'm gonna be presenting with Al-Nesha andDawn Brolin on reasonable compensation.
I'm also going to be talking about,collaborating, effective collaboration
between bookkeepers and Tax Pros,which of course is what ask a CPA.
(31:16):
My community is all about Questian.
What are you gonna be
talking about?
I'm going to be talkingabout building resilience.
So it's, the title is BounceBack and Build Forward and it's Resilience Strategies for Thriving.
And it's actually a panel withmyself and then Shirley is going to moderate and Lynette will be.
(31:38):
I don't know if I'mgonna say her name right.
I don't know her last name.
I've ever said it O before.
Oss Connell.
Yes.
So Lynette Oss Connell is going tobe a panelist as well as Will Lopez.
So that's a powerhouse.
It's, you know, I mean,think that's a great group
of people.
We all have some stories to share,and so we're gonna share our stories and we're gonna talk about.
How building resilience canhelp, you know, personally, but
(32:00):
also in firms and professionallyand how, how you can do that.
So we're, I'm veryexcited about this topic.
All of us are really excited andit's near to all of our hearts.
And Bridging the
gap is just a killer conferenceand it's gonna be amazing to all be there together in person.
And of course, Randy, you know, youcannot have a podcast about women in any workplace without bringing up.
(32:24):
Me too.
Oh yeah.
Right.
We all
have horror stories and that surprise us,not just men like you were saying earlier,
but many women, as Questian was sayingearlier, they think they're the only one.
I mean, that's why itbecame a movement, right?
It literally has happened to everyone.
So Me too.
Crazy.
Definitely gonna be one of our topics.
Yes.
(32:44):
It needs be.
Yeah.
Yep.
And Questians.
A topic that is nearand dear to her heart.
Yeah, we want to talk aboutmentorship in the industry.
I was having a conversation with someonethat I've been mentoring and is a dear friend of mine, and before I share that
conversation, I will say that, you know,Nancy has been a mentor for me and.
(33:10):
The amount of mentorship that she has donefor me and has really inspired me to kind of give that back as well to other women.
So thank you.
Questian.
Yeah, of course.
I'm, I'm very grateful.
So mentorship is important to both of us.
And I was also recently talking tosomebody that I've kind of been mentoring and she made a very insightful comment
(33:35):
and she said to me, we see in eachother what we fail to see in ourselves.
And I just thought that was veryprofound because when women are having these conversations with each other.
We tend to be, I don't know if it'sbeing humble or if it can be imposter
syndrome or lack of self-confidence,but we're hard on ourselves.
(33:57):
And when you have those relationshipsand that mentorship dynamic.
You see in each other often whatyou don't see in yourselves.
And so I think it's really importantto have those relationships because we
really build one another up and helpeach other highlight our strengths.
Yep.
And community.
Yeah.
And part of that, just knowing otherpeople are out there and, and what they're doing and what they've been
(34:21):
through and how they've solved whateversituation that they're dealing with.
Community is, I thinksuch a big part of what.
Helps this profession and we allgot to hang out together at plenty of places, and I always enjoy that.
So
yes.
Yeah,
we really
do have a great community.
Yep.
We really do.
We're so lucky, and it's going tobe even bigger and even stronger once this podcast reaches people
(34:45):
who don't have that community, theyhaven't had the opportunities that we have had to connect with each
other at these various conferencesand events like Bridging the Gap.
Pull them into our bubble and bringthem into the community and have them experience the benefits of
what it means when we all supporteach other and we're all looking out for each other's best interests.
(35:09):
Yeah, that, that sounds great.
All right.
Before we wrap things up,we have to give some data.
When's this launching?
Where's it launching?
Yeah, we're, we're shooting formid-May, so just keep your eyes peeled on our LinkedIn profiles.
I'm on LinkedIn at Nancy McClelland cpa.
(35:31):
And Questian, I think
it's Questian Tel ea. Yep.
But I mean, my name's pretty unique,so I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure if you search it, you can find it,
it's like the word question, butwith an a n instead of an ON.
Also I have a regular MSN column and Iwill definitely be talking about this.
So if you follow my MSN columnand of course on earmark yes.
(35:52):
If you are not already using earmark forearning CPE for listening to podcasts.
Get over there and, and sign upbecause they're amazing and they're gonna be doing some promo as well.
If you have any questions oryou're interested in becoming a
sponsor, please email me at Shecounts@thedancingaccountant.com or.
(36:16):
You can reach out to Questian.
Yeah, you can reach outto me, not Questian.
It's, it's, she counts Thatis not the email address.
It's, she counts@reconcilefinancials.com.
And that's R-E-Q-O-N-C-I-L-E.
We, we like to do plays on words.
Around here, so Nice.
(36:36):
And, and we will put thosein the show notes too.
So we should have thecorrect spelling and links and everything in the show notes.
And I am super excited to see thisgo and, and to listen to it.
And it'll definitely be on my playlistand I'm excited to thank you, Randy.
Learn as much as I can to see if Ican do my part to be an advocate
and ally to support and promote theconference and women in the profession.
(37:01):
We are very excited about the podcast.
Thank you so much for bringing usonto The Unique CPA to announce it.
This is our big launch announcement.
Randy, this is, this is it.
Believe me.
I'm
honored.
This is I'm, I'm like, wow.
This is, this is pretty cool.
We've got breaking news herethat we're sharing today.
Yeah.
So very exciting.
(37:22):
So I wanna ask one last question,Nancy, you can chime in.
And, 'cause we do this, even thoughthis is a, a big announcement podcast, I'd have to do this every podcast.
'cause I just love hearing whatpeople do when they're not working.
And so I'll know, Nancy, if youwanna answer first and then Questian cam, but you know, when we're not.
Not promoting she counts.
You're not promoting movingforward in the profession.
You're not doing your workinside your businesses.
(37:44):
What do you do for fun?
What's your outside the work passions?
Nancy, you wanna go again?
Obviously given that my company's nameis literally the dancing accountant,
I'm guessing your listeners can,can guess that I love to dance.
I. Specifically love to dance to 1960s.
Go-Go music.
(38:05):
So thank Nancy Sinatra.
These boots are made for walk-in.
That's my favorite thing to do.
I also love museums.
I will go to literally any museum.
I'm there and if you're also a museumperson and we're at a conference together, ping me and and let's do it.
Nice.
Questian.
(38:26):
I have to follow that up andsay, I also love to dance, but to a different style of music.
Mm-hmm.
Which anybody who knowsme well knows that I do.
I do plenty of dancing.
What's your favorite styleof music for dancing?
Electronic dance music.
Yeah.
I had a feeling.
Yeah.
How did you know?
And you know, and travelingwith friends to see shows, but also just travel in general.
(38:49):
And in fact, on Friday I'mtaking my son to Paris.
So nice.
We're very excited about that.
So excited.
First time for that.
That's, yeah, both of our first times.
We're gonna experienceit first for both of us.
He's 14, so we're both really excited.
We're gonna gain 10pounds while we're there.
Hey, Randy, what kind ofmusic do you dance to?
Zero.
(39:11):
Come on.
I.
I don't dance.
I, I honestly, I have a mental blockwith dancing and I wanna get past
it help you, but it can't be in thecrowd, be so, it has to be beautiful.
It has to be in a small area firstwhere I can get more comfortable.
I'm pretty confident, and most everythingI do, dancing is not something that I feel very self-conscious when I'm dancing.
(39:36):
Okay.
We're gonna work on that.
I've got something for you thatis gonna be a ton of fun that I'm gonna, that we're gonna do.
Bridging the Gap.
I've got some ideas.
Well, I am three weeks into kneereplacement surgery right now, so I won't be dancing for a while.
But by, oh, you've been hiking like crazy.
I have been hiking, which is insane.
I shouldn't have recovered thisfast from surgery, but I'm super fortunate that it's going much faster.
(40:00):
Me.
That's amazing than anybodycould have expected.
That's really amazing.
Yeah.
It's wonderful.
I'm so glad.
Yep.
All right.
Well thanks again, bothof you for being on.
I look forward to seeing you bothI'm sure, before bridging the gap somewhere out in the real world.
Yes, yes.
We'll, we'll be at Scaling New Heights,so let's, we'll see you in June and well,
and Randy, I will see you next monthas we celebrate our birthdays together.
(40:21):
Oh, that's
right.
In Chicago,
you'll, but not on my birthday.
'cause I'm camping that day.
So the week and I am hostinga, an event from the campsite.
I just got asked for, oh, sounds fun.
For financial sense, actually,that we just gave Financial Sense.
A plug.
They're doing a, a post-tax season.
(40:42):
I am going to be performing atFinancial Senses not just performing.
I'm gonna be teaching people to dance.
At the financial senseon, on May 2nd, right?
Yeah,
that's the day.
That's the day, yeah.
That's your,
yeah, I will be there as well.
I'm going to be teaching people how to doa couple of dances to kind of shake off
the tax season, you know, get your jointsmoving and, and celebrate our freedom.
(41:06):
So yeah, I'll see you there, Randy.
Well, I
will learn to dance online.
I'll be at the campsite doing it withjust Kathy, so nobody will able to
see.
All right.
Any final thoughts before we close it up?
It's been a lot of fun.
Thank you so much for having us and forgiving us a platform to share this project that, you know, means a lot to both of us.
(41:28):
So really appreciate it.
We're very excited.
Absolutely.
You
are the most.
Nice and fun person that I know.
That's our model.
Nice and fun.
So
nice and fun.
Just don't ask him to dance.
That's not fun.
Eventually, maybe, I don'tknow, at 62, can that happen?
I'll see one day.
One day.
We'll get there, but, all right.
Well, thank you both for
being here.
(41:48):
Thank you, Randy.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining ustoday on The Unique CPA.
You can find the show notes fortoday's episode and learn more about Tri-Merit, at TheUniqueCPA.com.
Remember to subscribe andleave a five star rating on your favorite podcasting app.
And join us next time for more expertiseand insights on The Unique CPA.
(42:14):
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