David Heredia, Founder of Heroes of Color

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Corey Nathan (00:08):
Welcome to the Voices of Business, a Santa Clarita
Valley Chamber of Commerce podcast.
Nice to be with you.
I am your host, Corey Nathan, and Iam so glad that my pal, my co host,
my partner in commerce, Joshua Maddox,decided to put off his voyage of the
seven seas so he can join us again today.
Um, no time travel, no going tothe center of the earth, no going

(00:30):
to but this is where Joshua and IAnd our wonderful guests talk about
business in the Santa Clarita Valley.
And actually, we talk about businessall over the country, but a lot of
business owners and business leadersand other community leaders we'll be
speaking with will be from right herein our hometown of Santa Clarita Valley.
Uh, sometimes we don't stick to business.
We talk about leadership andmanagement and life and anything

(00:52):
else where the spirit takes us.
Remember, To subscribe if youhaven't already, tell a friend, give
us a good rating, leave a review.
Those reviews especially really do help.
All of it actually helps to get theword out so more people can participate
in these conversations like the onewe're having today with David Heredia.
Is, sorry, is that how you say your name?

(01:13):
Eredia.
Eredia.
Um, David.
There you go.
Now you got it.
David Eredia, uh, is thefounder of Heroes of Color.
Joshua, David, so great to be with you.
How you both doing?
Absolutely

David Heredia (01:29):
fantastic.
Thank you, Corey.
Thank you, Josh, for the invitation.
Excited to be here.

How you doing, Joshua?

It's good to be with you again.
I,

Joshua Maddux (01:36):
uh, yeah, good to have you back.
Uh, I think last episode I had youstuck on the 405 freeway again or yeah,
I think there was like two episodesin a row you were stuck on the 405.
Um, still there.
So yeah, you're still there.
Um, you know, hey, it's, it'sLA like, yeah, you can be stuck
on the 405 for three weeks.
Sounds about right.
Um, yeah.

Well, I'll let you take it away since I'm, uh, you know,
returning from the, uh, the dreaded 405.
I wish I did have a time travel capsuleor whatever to take me away from there,
but I'll let you take it away, Joshua.

Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, yeah, it's goodto have you on, David.
I, I, as I was like going throughsome of your background and stuff,
I, I was looking at sort of your,your background, your education,
like your career trajectory andsort of where you are today.
Um, and it's a super interesting.
Uh, path, um, you grew up inNew York, is that correct?

(02:31):
Yeah, that's correct.
And then you found art animation.
Wait, wait, wait, wait,

wait.
I got it.
I'm sorry.
I'm already being what mydad calls a tits come off.
It's a troublemaker.
Where in the city did you grow up?
Uh, Lower East Side, Manhattan.
Oh, how about that?
That might.
So my family landed there beforepart of the family moved to Brooklyn.
The other part of thefamily moved to Newark.
And so did you stay there until, you know,you went to, um, you went to school or.

Yeah, so I was born and raised there up until 25 years old,
and then I moved out to Los Angeles.
Oh, okay.
So like, Alphabet City around there?
Um, lower than AlphabetCity, the Ave, yeah.
So we were literally rightat the tip of Manhattan, like
right by the Manhattan Bridge.
Oh, okay.

(03:18):
Oh, right on.
Yeah, there's uh, New York CityHousing Projects, and that, right
down there, that's where I grew up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And Manhattan is such an interestingcity because like one, one year, it
could be, it could have a certain,a block could have a certain vibe.
And then the next year, like onedeveloper could come in and buy everything
on one block and turn it into Soho.
Yeah,

yeah.
That's pretty much, you justsummed up what the Lower East
Side looks like right now.
It's completely different.

Yeah, yeah.
That's cool.
Sorry, Joshua.
No, you're good.
Yeah.
Yeah,

so from Obviously, growing up in New York, like, you
went to New York City College, um,and you started Houston City Tech.
You started pursuing, um, advertisingdesign and looking at visual art.
What did that, um, youknow, what inspired that?

(04:12):
Were you an artist from a young age?
What did that look like?

So, uh, great question.
I started off with a love for comicbooks and that was the original desired
path until I interned at Marvel.
And I want to say it was about 1996and it was a horrible experience.
And that experience showed,well, it was during a time where

(04:38):
Marvel was about to go bankrupt.
Um, you know, faces in the company werenot very happy and I was walking around,
you know, super excited, talking toeverybody and just basically taking,
um, the, the advice from my mentors atthe time, Josh, you mentioned a mentor
that kind of helped you in your career.
Why I had a mentor who basicallytold me, look, so you're in the mail

(05:01):
room at Marvel Comics, big deal.
You're in the building.
So make the most of it, you know?
And so that's what I did.
And when I spoke to a lot of thedifferent artists, I just, I got, it
was like, everybody was struggling.
And I just had to think to myself,like, do we really want to get into this
career path where everybody in here,even the top artists are struggling?

(05:22):
So it made me take a step backand just kind of think about.
the path I wanted to take.
I was always into the arts, but I justthought comic books was going to be
my thing until I had that experience.
Then I thought, well, maybeI'll just focus on advertising.
Um, and so I got into advertising withthe intent that I was going to draw a lot,

(05:43):
but it was all digital and graphic design.
And it was like forkexpress back in the days.
Um, and I hated it.
I just, I couldn't stand it,but I say, you know, why I
already started, let me finish.
I graduated and I got a job at oneof the top advertising firms in New
York, Ogilvie Mather, and great money.

(06:04):
I had no bills.
I mean, this is crazy.
would be considered the Americandream, except it was a nightmare
for me because I didn't enjoy it.
And so that, again, was anothercrossroad for me where I had
to think and re evaluate.
Like, is this what I want?
Um, what I learned, what my careertaught me is money isn't everything.

(06:26):
We can make money doing any sort ofthings, but how much are you enjoying it?
You know, there's a quote that I put in mysignature that says, choose a job you love
and you'll never work a day in your life.
And I stand by that because I'vehad so many terrible jobs that now I
really appreciate working for myself.

(06:48):
Like I really appreciate it.
Um, and even the jobs that Ihad that I loved, I have an
appreciation for those people thatI worked with and who guided me.
Um, so to answer your question, yes, Igot into, I was always into the arts.
I got into advertising.
And from those experiences, I figured,you know what, animation seems like

(07:13):
the route that I'd want to pursue.
And then I did an internship in, uh, atWarner Brothers in 2001, which brought
me out to California for the first time.
Loved the experience.
And then after graduating, came backout and decided to make LA my home.

Got it.
That's cool.
Yeah.
It's, it's interesting to sort ofsee that career path and finding the
elements that you do like of a job andthe elements that you don't like of
a job, um, you know, and just sort ofcrafting, crafting that and, and what
your career trajectory is from there.
You, you went on to, to geta few additional degrees.

(07:57):
Um, BFA in animation and amaster's in motion media design.
Um, and then as actually,

uh, I dropped out of scad, so I didn't finish . Oh, okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
So, um, while, while I was atscad, I was a two year program.
I did, I finished the first year andthe following year I ended up getting
a, uh, book deal with Scholastic.
And it just seemed like all thesegreat things were happening.

(08:28):
And I sort of had to again make a decisiondo I want to continue with education or do
I want to kind of pursue this book thing.
The book thing happened completelyby mistake it wasn't planned.
Um, but I saw a great opportunityso I didn't want to damage my 4.
0.
score that I had at the school.
So I just took a leave of absence.

(08:49):
And, but then I just never went back.

How did you, how did you get the book deal?
How did that come about?

So, uh, my mentor, Gerald Tritavian, who was the founder
of Year Up, um, he was invited to aconference in LA called PTTOW, P T T O W.
And he just gave me a call.
He's like, yo, come on down.
I don't want to go by myself.
So I went and I just kind ofbrowsing through the conference.
There was a breakoutsession on spoken word.

(09:17):
I'm not a poet.
I'm not a spoken word artist.
I just thought it'd be fun to join, butthe woman would not let me in the class
because I wasn't a registered attendee.
I was just a guest.
So, you know, I was like tryingto sweet talk her trying to
find a way to get into class.
And so when she wasn't lookingand somebody had asked her
a question I just snuck in.
And sat down and just didwhat everybody else was doing.

(09:38):
Grabbed a snack and justacted like I belong there.
So when the workshop began, um, theyasked everybody to write a poem on a
business idea or a project that they'reworking on that is really impactful.
So at this point, this was 2016.
I had just started, um, Heroesof Color, and I decided to

(10:01):
write a poem on my company.
So, everybody finished writingtheir poem, the moderator said we
need a volunteer, somebody come up.
So I went up, read my poem, longstory short, one of the people
in the audience said, Was theCEO of the Red organization, R.
E.
D.
Uh, the one with, uh,I think that was Bono.

(10:23):
Wasn't Spielberg involved with that?

Am I right?
Am I thinking it right?

Well, I know it was like, um, the Gap got involved with them.
You know, inspired.
So they, they, they had this advertisingcampaign where the word ended in R.
E.
D.
Um, and so they just hadeverybody selling products in red.
So anyway, her name was Deb Dugan.
She came up to me and shesaid, look, I loved your poem.
It was awesome.
And we just started chit chattingand then I gave her my business card.

(10:50):
We exchanged business cards and I don'thave the one that I gave to her, but I
had like a cartoon character on the card.
And she was like, Oh myGod, this is amazing.
You know, a good friend ofmine works at Scholastic.
I think she'd love to, youknow, maybe talk to you.
She's like, are youworking on a book idea?
Cause this looks like a children's book.
And of course, you know, I wasn't,but you know, seeing an opportunity,

(11:12):
I was like, yeah, actually I'mworking on a manuscript right now.

Yes, I am.

I am.
Now that you mentioned it.
So she's like, great, send me themanuscript tomorrow and I'll send
it over to my contact at Scholastic.
So I was like, okay, cool.
And you know, I didn'tthink anything of it.
So when I got home, I looked upher contact and it turned out
it was the VP of Scholastic.
So I was like, holy smoke.
So I'd better come correct.

(11:37):
So came up with anidea, pitched it to him.
She rejected it.
So, yeah, so that was 2016.
But what happened was, I believeso strongly in this idea.
Even though I came up withit in like 30 minutes.

Yeah.

I looked at it and I was like, this is actually not
a bad idea for a children's book.
So, yeah.
I kept working on it, I kept developingit, and I kept looking for opportunities
where I can talk about this book.
And my opportunity came in 2018, whenin New York, the Schomburg Center
had what they, they had this thing,the Black Comic Book Convention.

(12:18):
It was new, they werejust kind of launching it.
And so I had gone the year before as anattendee, uh, I'm sorry, as a vendor.
And so 2018, I was like, look, Iwant to go again, but this time, can
you give me 45 minutes on the stage?
I want to present.
And you know, they're like, wecannot guarantee you anything.

(12:39):
Um, we're not payingfor your plane ticket.
We're not putting you in a hotel.
Uh, it's completely on you.
I said, I don't care.
Just give me a stage andthat's all I'll take.
So they ended up giving me the stage.
And I got to showcasesome of my animation work.
I got to talk about, you know, theimportance of using art as a tool
to sort of help children who feelunseen be recognized, you know, and,

(13:05):
and, but more so inspired to telltheir, their stories through art.
So, I mean, Corey, it was, it was amazing.
I mean, literally when I walkedright off the stage, Channel 11 was
like, Hey, I need to interview you.
Uh, New York Times is like,Hey, I want to interview you.
NPR, hey, we want to interview you.
So I got all this publicity and mindyou, when I was on stage, everybody was

(13:29):
wearing like shirts and ties and suits.
I get on stage with a t shirt wearingthe characters from my children's
book, um, and afterwards I call mymentor and I'm like, what do I do now?
Got all this greatpublicity, what do I do?
He said, call Scholastic.
Don't rub it in their face, but veryprofessionally rub it in their face.

(13:52):
You know, how you doing?
Hope you're well.
Just wanted to let you know what I'vebeen up to and boom, send the links.
So I sent it to him, and Ikid you not, the response, she
couldn't respond fast enough.
She responded right away.
And she was like, Oh my God,that shirt that you had was
adorable with those characters.
We should talk about a book idea.
Do you have any new, uh, ideas?

(14:14):
So I was like, well, I have one.
So I send her the exact same manuscript.
I kid you not, I didn't change athing that I sent to her in 2016.
Now it looked appealing.
So now they gave me an offer.
They made, they gave me the deal.
Um, but even that process was somethingthat At the time when they sent

(14:34):
me the offer, I was working at DCComics, um, in the toy department.
So I was designing the, the boxeswhere the, you know, the toy, uh,
packaging, man, I love that job.
And that was my last official job, likeworking for somebody because Heroes
of Color was It started off really,really well because I did a project

(15:01):
with a company called Pearson, um, andthey actually were the, they are the
reason why I currently exist today.
And I'll explain that.
They were the ones that taught methe importance of how you include
different cultures, um, you know,and messaging through education.

(15:23):
So it's not like, like allthe way in your face, but.
They were teaching common core math,writing, reading, like all these
concepts that were new and kids just,they didn't get it, adults either.
So through animation, wewere able to explain it.
And it was the first time that Iwas actually able to tell a client,

(15:44):
listen, we should have a more diverse.
Uh, cast of cartoon characters,you know what I mean?
Like, and let's not bestereotypical about this.
You know, let's not makethe black kid into sports.
Let's not make theAsian kid a math genius.
Like let's switch it up, you know?
Um, so I found my voice.

(16:05):
I found that I was able to advocatefor myself to a client that, you know,
were, this was a six figure client.
The first time I ever made six figureswas when I started working for myself.
And.
Just, I went through thistransformation when I started
working, doing this work for Pearson.
And in 20, this was 2012, upuntil 2015, when they said, okay,

(16:31):
project is over, you're done.
And I wasn't, I wasn't prepared for that.
Um, I had become complacent allthose years, so I stopped looking
for any other opportunities.
So when it ended, I was like,uh oh, um, now what do I do?
I had to let go of like six people.
Um, and I was struggling.

(16:51):
It was, it was tough.
So that's why I startedlooking for work again.
And when I got to work at DC, I waslike, I really enjoy this work and I
really enjoy the people, but I thinkI enjoy telling my own stories more.
I just didn't know how tolike make that transition.
So when Scholastic came to me.

(17:13):
And said, we want to give you an offer.
I was like, look, I've been screwed somany times before I'm getting a lawyer.
And I got a lawyer tolook at the contract.
And they basically said, Scholasticwants ownership of everything.
So he's like, I can rewrite thiscontract, but it might be faster and

(17:33):
cheaper if you just tell Scholasticwhat you are not willing to give them.
And basically, you know, just be upfront.
Tell them what you're going to give themand what you're not willing to give up.
So I thought about this.
I called Scholastic and I said, um, Ican only give you publishing rights.
Which makes sense becauseyou're publishing my book.

(17:53):
But I cannot give you animation rights,I cannot give you film rights, I cannot
give you rights to my name, I cannot giveyou the right I just went down the list.
While I was at it, I just figured,well shoot, let me go all the way.
I was like I think yourroyalty offer is offensive.
I want double.
Um, and your advance is also low.
I want triple.
So I just went all in,you know what I mean?

(18:14):
And, um, she told me, I can tell youwith honesty, nobody's ever heard of you.
You're unknown.
There is very little chance, if any,that we're going to agree to these terms.
I was like, well, these are my terms.
My confidence came from thefact that I was working at DC
Comics and I love that job.

(18:35):
So I felt like I had asense of worth and value.
So I wasn't scared.
If I wasn't working at DC, Iprobably would have signed that
contract without hesitation.
But there's something that happens whenyou feel like you're in a position of
power, and the best time to negotiate acontract is when you have money in your

(18:55):
bank, or you have some sort of securitythat you know that if this deal doesn't
go through, I'm still going to be okay.

Right.

So, you know, conversation ended, I didn't hear from her for like
a month, and then I started sweating,because I was like, yeah, do it, you know.
But then she calls me back, Corey,Josh, and she tells me, Before
I tell you what we decided on,let me just say this to you.
Nine times out of ten, people do notgo through what you went through in

(19:24):
terms of actually getting a lawyer,actually sticking up for yourself,
and finding terms that work for you.
Most people just sign the contract.
She goes, Because of that, Ihave the utmost respect for you.
Um, we will accept your offer.
We will raise the royalty amount.
We can't raise the, the advancethat much more, but we can

(19:47):
raise it, um, close the deal.
And I walked away thinking like,damn, that was a major win.
And you said earlier, Josh, that thatwas one of the questions about like,
you know, what is a major win for you?
That was it.
Because in her eyes I was unknown.
I was not famous.
I did not have a bestselleror anything like that.

(20:09):
And I still got my way.
So that experience really,really led to all of what has
happened as a result of that.
I feel like as artists, we're desperateand we'll take whatever anybody
gives us when we're freelancing.
And even if the terms aresuch that are just like.

(20:30):
This is crazy, I would never dothis, but I really need the money.
So we compromise so much justfor a paycheck, but when you
find, when you do it once.
When you stick up for yourselfand you say, you know what?
I don't accept these terms.
Yeah, I need the money, but not that bad.
That I'm willing tocompromise my values for it.

(20:51):
Well, and that's, and

that's something,

yeah,

and that, and that's something I think so many people like
being an agency, like we see that alittle bit with potential clients.
Like there's this opportunity cost.
Like if I take on that project.
Yes, it's money in the bank, butit's X number of hours committed.

(21:14):
Is that, you know, what isthe opportunity cost of that?
Am I then giving up the ability?
So if you would have signed thatfirst contract, then, you know,
royalties would have been different.
All of that.
Like now there's opportunity todo other things, um, you know,
to, to move into other avenues of,of media and, and stuff as well.

(21:36):
Um, and I think so manybusiness owners don't.
Necessarily, always take that time andHit the pause button and take a step back.
Yeah,

a ton of lessons, um, that I, I gleaned from that story.
One is, you know, the resilience thatyou exhibited when you were first, you
know, you get that first high when youwere in that class that you, like, sat
down, had a snack, looked like everybodyelse, and then, like, somebody responds
to your, you know, to your work anddo you have, do you have a book deal?

(22:08):
Yes.
Are you working on a book?
Yes, I am.
But then to be let down and say,Oh, no, we can't, can't accept that.
Um, the resilience that you kept onworking, the, the, the seed was planted
in you and the resilience you showed, um,to continue, uh, nurturing that idea, but
also the persistence to circle back withthose same people as well as, I don't know

(22:30):
exactly what the right word is for it,but it's like some form of Jedi mind trick
diplomacy of like, this was your idea.
It was a good idea.
I, you know, like, um, you know,to kind of let the person off the
hook from that first rejection sothat it could look like her idea,
you know, there's a lot in there.

(22:51):
Um, one of the things I was really curiousabout is the, um, curriculum, uh, the
subject matter has met with resistance.
You know, from, from the get go, youknow, there, there's certainly been
a lot of backlash, um, in recentyears, even at the legislative level.
Uh, I'm wondering what kind of, um,what kind of resistance you've faced in

(23:15):
trying to, um, implement, uh, programsand introduce, uh, you know, diversity
and inclusion, uh, into curriculum.
Uh, what, what kind of, um, what kindof, you know, obstacles you've had
to overcome in, in, in doing this?

Uh, great question.
And you know, the best way that I canphrase it is diversity and inclusion
and belonging is not a, is not aposition, it's not a curriculum,
it's a lived experience for me.
So, when I walk out of my house and mykids walk out of the house, we have a

(23:52):
completely different lived experiencethan other folks who don't look like us.
So, for me, a lot of this came out of.
Situations that happened to my kids,situations that happened to me,
and how I have had to confront it.
Something happened to me the otherday, where, um, I was ordering a meal.

(24:12):
My family's from the Dominican Republic.
We speak Spanish.
So I ordered the meal in Spanish andthe woman looked at me and said, Oh
my God, you, you speak Spanish sowell, like I wasn't expecting that.
And in the beginning, I used to getpissed off when this would happen to me.
Right.

(24:32):
But now I have fun with it.
So what I told her inresponse was, that's funny.
I was going to say the exact same thingabout you when I heard you speak English.
And it's like, sometimes you have tocheck people in ways that aren't so
overt and angry, but in a way that maybethey can gain a little bit of empathy

(24:53):
because now you've put them in your shoes.
So now they're understanding howridiculous their remarks are.
It's not malicious, it'sjust ignorance, right?
So any opportunity that I have to sort ofeducate people on, if you're curious about
why I'm speaking this language, thereare other ways that you can ask me that

(25:14):
question without making it seem like, ohmy god, your presence is just, The fact
that you're speaking Spanish and you lookthe way you do challenges my stereotype of
what a Spanish speaking person should looklike, and they should not look like you.
So I try to invite conversationsand, but not everybody is ready

(25:34):
to have those conversations.
And to me, the trigger, Heroes of Colorwas born in 2015 because of my daughter.
She was my DEI expert because It reallyhappened when my, my wife, uh, she went to
work and didn't have time to do her hair.

(25:55):
So she, you know, she has an afro.
My wife's Mexican, so my kids look mixed.
They're gorgeous.
But in the city, in Santa Clarita,It was not, you know, it's not
as diverse as I thought it was.
So when she Santa Clarita

is about as close to Iowa as we get in California.

So you know what I'm talking about.
Um, so when my daughter went to school,I obviously didn't know how to braid her
hair, so I just let her go with the afro.
And she got so much Somany insults that day.
She was in kindergarten.
And, you know, when I went to pick herup, the teacher told me, and I don't know

(26:36):
that my daughter really fully understood.
Um, but I understood.
And I was really disappointed thatthis was happening in kindergarten.
I couldn't blame the school.
Because obviously thesekids got this from home.
Um, so I was like, damn, howdo I protect as a parent?
Like your number one instinct isprotect your kids at all costs.

(26:58):
So, but how do youprotect them against that?
You know what I mean?
Like it's, it was tough.
It was challenging.
This is where the idea for my children'sbook was actually born because I started
creating these little cartoon charactersof color and I would show them to my
kids and I wanted to normalize puttingfaces of just, you know, regular,

(27:22):
different professions, but professionalsnonetheless, that were not athletes,
uh, that were not celebrities, thatwould spark a conversation because
they'd never heard of them, you know.
And the children's book wascalled Little Heroes of Color.
So technically when the woman askedme, Deb Dugan asked me if I had an

(27:42):
idea for a book, and I say, yeah,I'm actually working on a manuscript.
That lie came from Justmy data, my data bank.
I was thinking, well,what could I do as a book?
So I just referenced that real quick.
And that is what endedup getting published.
But that was born out ofmy daughter's situation.
Fast forward to the secondgrade, it happened again,

(28:02):
same daughter, same school.
So by this point, I started to arm herwith words that she can use to deflect
these comments, it's still gonna hurt.
There is no taking away from what thatpain feels like when you're ostracized
or when you're pointed out as beingdifferent and demonized for it.

(28:25):
You know, there are certainthings that we just cannot change.
And we shouldn't have to.
So my objective as a parent first is tomake sure that my daughter and my kids,
my other kids, walk with their head high.
And if they walk into a room and they'rethe only ones that look like that, great.
Use it to your advantage.

(28:45):
Now you're a leader becausenow everybody's looking at you.
So use that and run with it.
And that's the, a lot of the waymy kids handled themselves in those
situations was how I started tohandle myself in those situations.
So I learned a lot from my kids.

How important do you think it is for your kids, or was it
for you, um, I don't know exactly how todescribe it, but to have representation.
So in other words, um, I, I, I'm involvedin the entertainment advertising industry.
A lot of people who make the movie postersand the coming attractions that you see.
And the history of the modern trailerindustry and key art industry,

(29:24):
um, is a bunch of old white guys.
Um, now this generation, uh, mygeneration, a half generation behind
me, um, there's been a lot of workdone, especially since George Floyd was
murdered, um, to, to have representation.
So to have folks that are, you know, thatlook different than, you know, than the

(29:46):
guys who were running MGM back in thedays when they were doing the, the first
modern campaigns, the Jaws campaign, theStar Wars campaign, um, it really does.
make a difference for folks.
So I'm curious how important itis for you to be able to see, or
for your kids to be able to see,whatever it is that they want to do.
Whether, you know, it's a career inscience, a career in art, a career in

(30:09):
medicine or in law, to see somebodythat they can say, Oh, now I see
me in that, in that profession,in that, in that trajectory.
How important is

that?
Well, I'll answer thatwith another question.
Imagine if you grew up, both of you.
And TV, radio, advertisements.
Um, everything that you lookedat was a black person everywhere.
Every now and again, you might see awhite person, but if everything you saw

(30:42):
was a black person, how important itwould, would it be for you to feel like
in order for me to get into radio or TVor advertising, I kind of would like to
see if that's something that I would fitin, like, do I fit in, is that for me?
You know what I'm saying?
And so I think people just.
They know the importance of it, butthey're in a position, uh, and when

(31:06):
I say they, I mean white people arein a position to dictate what comes
out, the visuals that come out.
You control visuals, you control a lot.
You control a lot.
Oprah, um, magazine, there was an articlethat was, oh my goodness, it was amazing.

(31:28):
What she did was shehired this photographer.
Who reversed stereotypes and therewas an image of a white, a young white
girl, maybe five or six years old,looking at a wall of Barbie dolls.
All of the Barbie dolls were black.
There is an image of a woman gettingher nails done, but the woman was

(31:52):
Korean, and the woman that wasdoing her nails was a white lady.
They reversed the rolesof the typical maid.
The maid was white, and the woman thatwas being, you know, the boss, the owner
of the house, the mansion, was a Latina.
So it's like, if you reverse yourroles, if you really try to empathize

(32:13):
then you'll understand, people willunderstand where the importance lies.
And it's not just, oh, I see myself,but cultural differences and traditions.
And you learn a lot from theway other people do things.
It might help make your joba little bit more efficient.
Um, if you really do care aboutcreating an environment of

(32:34):
belonging, then how do you do that?
It's not just including a role.
Hey, this is our DEI director.
So now we're legit.
Now everybody feels like they belong.
No, it's more than that.
It's conversations that keep happening.
It's, um, you know, when there arethese big contracts that happen, people
that look different are in the room.

(32:57):
They have a say, they havecontrol over images that come up.
You look at a lot of the.
Um, the industry, I've heard somevery horrible stories about what
artists were encouraged to talkabout because it makes sales.
Who cares if it goesagainst your values or not?
It makes sales.
So keep doing that.

(33:17):
Keep talking about this subject.
So in answer to the question,how important is representation?
Just think to yourself.
How important would it have been foryou growing up to see yourself included
in different professions, differentindustries, if every image that you saw

(33:37):
was somebody that did not look like you?
You cannot tell me, honestly, that youwill grow up feeling the exact same
way that you do about yourself, aboutyour abilities, about other people,
Black, Latino, Asian, or anything else.
Because that's the, that'sthe power of images.
And that's why I love art so much.

(33:58):
It has the power to unite.
It has the power to, um, separate, it hasthe power to change your thought process.
It has the power to change howyou treat people, just based
solely on images that you see.
I've never been to California prior tothe year 2000, and in my mind, the only

(34:20):
reference point that I had were themovies and the fake images that were
perpetuated to me when I think of LA.
So I had this image of what LApeople were like until I got here.
I was like, this is nothing likewhat I see on the TV, in the movies.
Completely different.
And a lot of that has to do with thecircles that I chose to get into.

(34:44):
You know, they would say, Oh, don'tgo into this area because it's bad.
And they wear blue and they wear red.
And if you wear the wrong colors,you're going to get shot and killed.
And I'm not saying that I'm walking intothe hood acting, you know, mindless.
I mean, I'm going to, I'm not going tobe reckless, but I'm also aware that if
you're involved in certain things andyou're going to get a lot of trouble

(35:05):
because of what you're involved in, youknow, um, just keeping an open mind.
To me is, at the end of the day, isreally what it's about, is understanding
different cultures, and I love cultures,I love learning about different cultures,
and one of the projects that I'm workingon right now with, uh, School District

(35:25):
is, we're doing, well, I don't want toget into that yet, I'll wait until that
question comes up, but just circling back,Corey, to the representation piece, it's,
you know, It's incredibly important andnecessary that we continue to switch up
the visuals that we're seeing on TV, onmedia, um, radio, everything, because

(35:48):
our society is incredibly diverse.
So it would be, I think, um,irresponsible of us who create images,
who create audio, who create video tojust represent one group of people.
That would be irresponsible of us.

That's where, uh, I think there's a really interesting element with
Pharrell Williams new biopic that cameout, um, the Lego one piece by piece.
So, I don't know if you know this, butin the conversation with Lego and in that
conversation, one of the things he saidwas, Hey Lego, skin tone's an issue here.

(36:30):
Like, we all don't, we're not, we'renot all yellow and, you know, like, hey,
can we have some representation here?
And that was part of the conversationof doing the film was, I want you
guys as Lego to, you know, thinkabout that, be aware of this.
And I, I think, you know, obviously thetraditional yellow minifig is, is done.

(36:56):
So that way it's.
You know, doesn't look like anyone.
Yeah, it's, you know, but at thesame point in the more recent
sets, they've started introducingskin tone and it's like, well,
why are we doing one skin tone?
Why?
Like there's not just one, like, andso I, you know, I think part of it
is, is awareness there and it's, youknow, an awesome element that they

(37:19):
are expanding on and working through.
Um, but your, your point about like,if you flip the script on, Stereotypes.
And you sort of, as soon as youstart to do that and you think
through that, you're like, Yeah,okay, that would be uncomfortable.
And it's like, wait, ifthat's uncomfortable for

(37:40):
me, then like, wait, okay.
Imagine dealing with it every single day.
Exactly.
And I think that's where it's like,well, it's not a problem for me
because, you know, I don't deal withX, Y, or Z, like whatever that is.
So it's not my problem.
And that I think way morethan, Way more than, than not.

(38:00):
Like that is the mindset behind it.
And so in reality, likeit's your problem, not mine.
And where to Corey's point earlier aboutlike the trailer industry, like, no, it is
more like, because that's been perpetuatedin the industry or in whatever.
It's

my problem, but it was not created by me.

Yeah.
Yeah.
You have, and you have,you have, you have.
Not no control, but you have very littlecontrol over changing it, necessarily.
And so,

see, I disagree with that part.
I agreed with that for many years, that Ihave no control, and I am part of a system
that is set to set me up for failure.
Um, or the, you know, the wholeschool to prison pipeline thing.
But I think after, letme see, when was it?

(38:55):
I think it was after I did my firstshort video on the Harlem Hellfighters
that I started to understand thepower that one person can have.
One person, no master's degree,not famous, no, you know, a
million likes or subscribers.
But that one threeminute video that I made.

(39:16):
raised so much hell that it was, itwas like the most, it was the biggest
accomplishment to me in my life in2015 that I could make a three minute
video that would incite so muchhatred in some, but pride in others.
And I had to think about that.
Why is that?
Why is it?
I'm not making something up.

(39:37):
I'm not, you know, beingemotional about a subject.
I am literally stating factsfrom history, from US history.
And, you know, forming it in a story whereI'm saying, here's a group of people.
who had to overcome these obstaclesand they were able to do it.

(39:59):
And so I would like to honor themovercoming these obstacles in a nutshell.
That's what the threeminute video was about.
And so, which is a reallygood watch by the way.
Yeah.
I appreciate that.
I really do.
Um, you know, but to, to the pointof where I disagreed with myself
in saying I, I have no control.

(40:22):
I do have control now because I understandthe power of visuals and the, the,
the perception that I want to put out.
When people think of heroes of colornow, first thing that many people think
of is education, representation, whichis great because That's exactly what I

(40:43):
want people to think of when they thinkof the company, is it's a company that is
dedicated to educating, to giving kids,I want to focus on the kids, because I
want to give them the power to understandthat they can advocate for themselves.
They can speak up.
It's okay.
Do it professionally.
Do it responsibly.
But speak up.

(41:04):
Don't stay shut.
And that's the messagethat I teach to my kids.
You know, and since the kindergartenincident and the second grade incident,
many other incidents have happenedwhere Proud parent moment where they,
they stood up and they spoke up andthey even questioned their teachers,
you know, to the point that, look,this is something that I believe in.

(41:26):
So I want to move in this path.
Another story with my daughter.
She was given an assignment.
to highlight an Americanhero, fourth grade.
And on the list, nobody was of color.
So she said to the teacher, I don'tsee any people of color on this list.
So I'm going to do a person of color.

(41:47):
And she did.
Um, and I thought that that was the mostcourageous thing in the world because,
you know, you're in the fourth grade,you're very mindful of what you say, who
you say it to, friends are a big thing.
Peer pressure is a big thing.
None of that mattered to her.
What mattered to her was she wants totalk about somebody who looks like her

(42:09):
or at least is of a different culture.
Um, she wants options, youknow, and that taught me a huge
lesson all across the board.
Key word is options.
So the way I lead my business now iswhen somebody wants to work with me,
I never just give them one price.
This is what it is.

(42:29):
I give them options.
You want to talk to me?
You want to get in touch with me?
I'll give you options.
I think, um, Corey, you mentioned itearlier about, you thought it was like
a Jedi moment where you're like, Oh,you kind of make it look like they're
the ones who came up with the idea.
They're the ones that are in control.
But when you give people options, you'reonly giving them options that you want.

(42:52):
And this is something that I talka lot about on the business side of
freelancing is, so if a client says,Hey, I want you to design a logo for me.
And I designed 10 logos andI give you these samples.
I'm afraid you might endup picking the worst one.
So eliminate that.
Create your 10 logos and pickyour three favorite, the three
strongest ones, present that to them.

(43:14):
So there's no way you'regoing to be disappointed.
Options is always a keything for me as options.
It's not definite.
You have options.

Right, right.
That makes, that makes a ton of sense.
And, and I, not to, um, not to drag thispoint out too much, but I, I do think
that we have some agency, uh, not thatwe can control the outcome necessarily,
but we can create certain circumstances.
So for example, just on this show,um, we can make sure that the

(43:46):
folks that we're including in theconversation are representative of
the community that we're a part of.
Right.
Um, so, but it takes.
It takes awareness, uh, andit takes a little bit of work.
Uh, this, this other show that,that we do, um, it's on the
entertainment advertising industry.
I got a call from a very dear friend,and she's become even closer, uh,

(44:07):
over the last, Four or five years.
Uh, a lady named Dana Flowers,who's now over at Amazon.
She was a EVP over at Sony at the time.
Uh, it was June of 2020.
She called me up, she said, Corey,we could do better . And Dana's the
kind of lady who's just like, she'sall heart with sharp elbows, you know?
And I'm like, Dana, yes we can.

(44:28):
What are we talking about ? Um,and she goes, well, you know, you,
you haven't had me on your show.
Uh, and I'm like, what time?
What time do you wannacome on ? What time work?
Um, so Dana comes on and, and Ihad, had other people, uh, from
historically marginalized communitieson the show, but you know, they are

(44:48):
the vast minority in that industry.
Um, but one very prominent one, arguablyone of the greatest trailer editors
of all time, a guy named Skip Shassan,he just wanted to talk about the work.
So he wasn't getting into likepolitical issues, social issues.
And that's cool, like, I'll follow yourlead kind of a thing, but Dana wanted
to talk about it, she wanted to getinto it, and I'll tell you what, like,
within the week after that show, I got,I got a note from, uh, a young lady who

(45:11):
was going to, uh, community college in,um, South Bay, I forget, I think it was
in the Redondo, I forget the name ofthe school, um, and she didn't tell me,
You know, if she was black or she was,you know, what she did say that she's a
single mom, what she did say was when Iheard Dana's story for the first time,
I could see myself in that industry.

(45:32):
So I can't necessarily say that puttingDana on and having a conversation
with her, I've talked to her anytime.
Cause she's just such, her,her story is really encouraging
and she knows her stuff.
And, um, it, it, she's a great person.
You know, great, a greatguest to have on the show.
So, you know, I can't necessarilycontrol what outcomes will come out
of that conversation, but you'reputting the right ingredients in

(45:56):
your, you know, in your recipe.
Um, so I, I don't know.
I, I do think that we do have, likeI said, the point is I do think
that we do have some, some agency.

That's good.
Well, I was gonna ask you what yourmotivation was behind launching
Heroes of Color, but I feel likewe've definitely covered that.
Yes, we have.
We know why.
Um, I, I do want to transition and talkthrough, uh, Heroes of Color a little bit
and sort of what, what you're doing there.
Um, and also some of the entrepreneurs,uh, program and, and what that looks like.

(46:33):
Oh, for

sure.
So I think Heroes of Colortook a turn after COVID.
Uh, a very positive one.
I know many businesses shut down and itwas like a nightmare for everybody, but
it, it created opportunities for me, whichI'm so grateful for, because essentially
what happened was a lot of the workshops.
No, I'm sorry.

(46:54):
A lot of schools reached outto me, asking if I could give
a workshop, virtual workshop.
I'm like, yeah, sure, of course.
So I did a couple here and there.
Uh, I did a couple for CalArts, um, COC.
And they loved it.
So I thought, Hmm, maybe I can getlike some good money from doing this.
So I pitched it to othercolleges, other universities,

(47:16):
and I started getting booked.
So now I'm thinking I can reallypush this education piece now and not
just anything related to diversity,but you know, the two things that
I'm really passionate about is.
Well, diversity, obviously, butalso entrepreneurship, because I
felt like when I graduated fromcollege, I was not prepared and I

(47:40):
had no idea how to price my work.
People would ask me for custom work.
I didn't know how to price it, youknow, and, and I was always struggling.
And, you know, there's a lot of truthto the stereotype of the starving
artist because we're just not prepared.
So.
I did research and I started learningand I started reading books and, you
know, taking business classes and Iwrote a book called The Freelance Hustle,

(48:04):
which basically just is a path of myjourney from 1996 up until about 2020.
And all of the things that I have,encountered all of my lived experiences
of things that that helped me, thingsthat hurt me, um, and just suggestions
for freelancers, artists in general,who want sustainability in their

(48:27):
careers in the arts because Most parentswill tell their kids, it's a great
hobby, but you need to get a real job.
Um, and I understand wherethat fear comes from.
You know, it's, it's a real fear.
So, you know, my number one, um,advice for any artist is Take business
classes, like learn the business sideof it, because you will able to, you

(48:50):
will be able to see the differencebetween, um, like actually making
a career or just making ends meet.
So entrepreneurship becamemy thing during COVID.
And once everybody started goingback to in person, I took my one week
workshops, my one day workshops, andI started expanding them into programs

(49:13):
where now it's a six week program andI started learning the vocabulary.
I started spending time on schoolwebsites and seeing how they phrase
things and enrichment programs and, youknow, Serving, servicing this community.
Um, then I had to learnhow are they funded.
So when I created proposals,I had to use their language.
I had to understand their language.

(49:34):
So I really took thisbusiness thing seriously, man.
And it just completelytransformed my life.
And now when I get opportunitiesto speak to students, you know, of
course, they want to hear about Disney.
They want to hear about like, you know,all the artwork and all the cool stuff
and exhibiting, which is great, but I'mlike, you know, Take it the next step.
Take it a step further.

(49:55):
Um, you know, if you want to do this, oneof the things that you're really going
to have to master is the art of pivoting.
Because things will not go your way.
That's probably the only guarantee thatI can give you in the art industry is
you will not get your way all the time.
So if you don't get your way, how canyou find another way to get there?

(50:17):
What is another path you can take?
What's another road you can take?
You know, so I love animation and Ithought I wanted to be an animator
until I understood that what Ireally want to do is tell stories.
It doesn't matter if I'm theone creating it, as long as
I'm the one who is writing it.
So I have other people help mecreate animation now, you know, with

(50:40):
these workshops and these programs.
I can't be in all theclassrooms at the same time.
So I hire other people who have ashared vision of education, um, to, to
lead these workshops, you know, and,and that's how my business went from
a solopreneur to 16 employees now.
Um, and, and it didn't, it didn't happenovernight, you know, a lot of risks.

(51:02):
There's a, there's a lot of risk involved.
Uh, and I can tell you firsthand,the very first program that I rolled
out in a school district in San Diegowas a complete nightmare because
it was the first time I did it.
I made a million and one mistakes.
Um, but I learned from it.
And I kept going.

(51:23):
And through the grace of God, thisschool district believed so much
in what I was doing that they werewilling to give us another shot.
And now this is our third year there.
Um, and things are runningsmoothly, and it's just been,
it's been a great experience.
Um, but all of that to say, theimportance of teaching entrepreneurship
is so close to my heart that one ofmy favorite programs, one that I call

(51:47):
the Junior Artrepreneurs, is the onethat got accepted into the William S.
Hart School Districtstarting in the spring.
We, you know, it was a pilot.
To four schools, Saugus, Hart,um, I'm blanking on the names.
Oh, La Mesa Junior High School.
And I forget the fourth one, but.
It went so well that, soit was a six week program.

(52:10):
We taught them how to customizehats, skateboard decks, sneakers,
canvases, all this cool stuff.
And then we held an art exhibitionwhere they got to sell their merch
at, in the aquatic water center.
You know, the, that, thatcenter they have there.
Um, it was great.
It was this huge exhibition hall.
Spectrum came out and covered thestory and, um, Good Day LA covered the

(52:33):
story and we were able to showcase.
the amazing work that these kids weredoing, but more so there were some other
things that happened that I couldn'tplan for, which was we were helping
these kids build their confidence.
We were helping parents see wheretheir children's interests lie and
how they could further support them.
Um, we were helping kids break outof their shell because part of the

(52:57):
class is not just you painting.
We teach business, we teach marketing,we teach oral presentation, get
up in front and talk about this.
We do role playing scenarios wherethey have to, we purposely put
them in uncomfortable situationsso that they can learn to navigate.
How do I get out of this situation?
And like I said, these results, youcan't measure with a rule stick.

(53:22):
These are things that parentswere coming up to me telling me.
Oh my God, I've seen, I'mseeing a completely new child.
She talks now, she doesn'tlock herself in the room.
She actually is talking about business.
Um, she wants to buy a new phone.
So she's thinking of waysthat she can earn money.
And I'm like, that's it.
This is it.
Even if you decide you don't want to bean artist, these are skills that will

(53:46):
follow you for the rest of your life.
Because more importantly, they're startingto see their self worth and value.
And you can't measure that.

And those are the soft skills that like, as a business owner,
like, man, can you problem solve?
Can you figure that stuff out?
Like I, so I serve on the careerand college readiness, um, advisory
council for the heart district.
And so I literally like.
What, two weeks ago or three weeks ago,we had a call and those types of things
that like all the business owners arelike, man, can they problem solve?

(54:16):
Are they comfortable in front of people?
Are they, but those are the softskills that sadly, oftentimes, like,
like you said, they're not measurable.
Like, okay, can you take an examand answer these 10 questions
and like math, 10 math problems?
And like, did you get them all right?
Like that's.
Easy, because we caneasily put a grade on it.
But often times, those are the typesof classes, like you're talking

(54:37):
about, these entrepreneur, or artentrepreneur type classes, are
the ones that like, get forgottenbecause it's not easily measurable.
And so, sadly, like, wejust don't have that.
Don't want to do it because it'snot easy to quantify and it's not
easy to put on an annual report.
I think all like everything you're doingwith that is so cool, and there's so

(55:00):
much more like between you know I wasI'm on your Amazon art author page,
which you have a book, another book, itlooks like coming out, uh, in May of 25.
Um, and so there's, there's so muchmore with inside of, um, the heroes
of color stuff that you're doingand between, you know, what you're

(55:22):
doing in the school districts.
You know, the, the animated episodesthat you have, um, which I've seen a
few of those, which are really cool.

Thank you.

So where, where can people find out more about what you're doing,
um, and, and connect with you online?

Absolutely.
Uh, so heroesofcolor.
com, H E R O E S, ofcolor.
com.
I don't really do social mediathat much as, as I used to.
Uh, I do spend more time onLinkedIn, um, now just because
my demographic has changed.
I think my focus has changed.
So therefore, my, I'm veryintentional about where I'm

(56:00):
spending my time at, if at all.
LinkedIn has become a really good sourcefor me because I get a lot of inspiration
from just seeing other professionals, um,you know, and just seeing the obstacles
that others have been able to overcome.
Their resiliency, uh, theirpersistence feeds me, you know, so

(56:21):
I stop spending time on platformsthat just show me negativity.
Uh, or hate, you know, um, or justmindless stuff, you know what I mean?
Yeah, we all need to laugh everynow and again, but I don't want
any of that to influence me.
I'm not so easily influenced, but ifit's something that I really believe
in, I'm very easily influenced.

(56:42):
And so LinkedIn has shown me alot of very positive stories.
And I'm one of those people that have,you know, I'm trying to get a contract
with the school, but you get the contract.
Dude, I'm happy for you.
Like, that's amazing.
I'm glad that you got that.
I'll learn from that.
You know, that's who I want to be around.
And so my circle has gotten smallerand smaller and smaller to the

(57:06):
point that I can probably countmy close friends in one hand.
And, but I'm okay with that.
I'm okay with that because I know thateverybody who's around me wants me to win.
And I want them to win.
And I think that is one of the majorkeys to success is surrounding yourself
with people that are like minded.
Um, and, and don't busythemselves with foolishness.

(57:29):
You know what I mean?
Like just, I don't want to getinto that topic, but yeah, surround
yourself with positive people.
It makes a very big difference.
Very big difference.
That's really good.
Well, as we wrap up, do you haveany questions for Corey or I?
Um, I'd say the, you know, the biggestquestion that I have is, What are some of
the characteristics that make the peoplethat you interview, like what are some of

(57:54):
the characteristics that make you like,wow, this, like, we need to interview
this person because of X, Y, and Z.
Like, what are some of thethings that stand out for you
before you reach out to somebody?

That's good.
Um, so for me, there's a few things.
One, when I'm looking atsomeone's like LinkedIn, so
first off, you know, LinkedIn.
Bo as a business is a SantaValley Chamber of Pod, you know,
chamber of Commerce podcast.
And so we are targeting chambermembers, um, specifically.
So inside of that, you know,element I, I look at two things.

(58:27):
One, like, do you have sortof an interesting background,
like, you know, careers?
There are careers like.
90 percent of what you've done, youknow, if you read your LinkedIn,
it's almost entirely in the arts.
Like there's, you know, someof that, there's some teaching
there, there's some of that.

(58:47):
So it follows one career path,which is fine, but there's
diversity in that career path.
That's going to have an interesting story.
Um, Looking at your website,looking at some of the
interviews you've already done.
Um, some of the ones you weretalking about and alluding to,
I've, I've listened to already.
And there's so much passion inwhat you're doing, where like my

(59:08):
question about like, you know, whatled you to start Heroes of Color?
Like, I don't have to ask thatquestion because if someone's
listening to the podcast and they'vegotten that far, like they better
know, or they haven't been listening.
Um, And so for me, Ithink that's part of it.
Like there's business ownerswho I see at a chamber event.
And I'm like, so what do you do?
And they're like, um, make blue widgets.

(59:30):
Got it.
And you hate your joband you hate what you do.
Um, cool.
Can you tell me more about that?
And they're like, yeah, sure.
They're blue, like,
anything else?
And they're like, nope.
Great.
Have a good day.
Like those are the podcast interviewsthat would last all about 10 minutes.

(59:51):
Um, and no one would listen to.
And so, you know, that that's not tosay that they're a bad business owner.
That's not to say anything likeoftentimes, honestly, there are some
industries that don't need to havesomeone who has that level of confidence.
Who's outgoing, who like asan entrepreneur, especially

(01:00:12):
in the art space, like.
You have to be able to adapt.
You have to be outgoing.
You have to have some ofthose different qualities.
Like you just have to, or you'dmore or less die in the industry.
Like, but there are someindustries like that you don't.
And so I get it.
Um, and people, that's also tosay like people have found their

(01:00:34):
right industry and that's great.
So yeah.
Anyway, Corey, is there anybody for you?
You're muted.
Anyone, anyone who can'tdeal with technology.

Corey Nathan (01:00:48):
I did that.
Yeah, I did that.
The gray hair just requires me to dothat at least once or twice during
a, um, anyway, so podcasting issuch a, um, a unique medium because
it allows for human connection.
It allows for a level of intimacythat other, other platforms don't

(01:01:10):
really lend themselves as fully to.
So when I'm talking tosomeone, can they tell a story?
Because at the end of the day.
We're still a storytelling creaturesand we connect not just to individual
data points on a resume or, um, of, youknow, a person's background or whatever,

(01:01:32):
but we connect to other stories, right?
So what this allows us to do is it allowsus to sit around a table, a virtual
table in this case, um, and then thelisteners are at that table with us.
If we are having a candid.
Um, I'm trying to create ahuman connected conversation,
a human connected conversation.
Right.
So I look for elements of that in a guest.

(01:01:54):
Are they willing to do that?
Um, And I, what I, what I was sayingbefore is I, I also tried to have.
Some sort of end in mind.
Um, what, you know, those other peoplethat aren't vocal participants in the
conversation, but are listeners, they areparticipants in the conversation, right?

(01:02:14):
And will they be able to connect?
Will they be edified?
Will they be informed?
Will they be inspired?
Or will they see themselvesas In the speaker, right?
Because if you can, if you could connectto someone's story, then you can see,
then you can see your own story being.
taking that next step inyour own story, right?

(01:02:36):
So those are some of the things thatI want to achieve, um, in, in, in
doing, in having these conversations,um, to edify and inspire others, um,
if nothing else, just to entertainthem with the guy with the gray hair
forgot to turn off mute, you know?
Um, I will say also at thesame time, what, what, I try to

(01:02:58):
eliminate before it enters in.
Um, I had a experience justrecently where I was sort of,
I'm collaborating with some, somefolks on another show that we do.
Um, and they encouraged meto ask this person, a certain
person to come on the show.
And I had reservations because I know,let's just say, He's not my cup of tea.
Um, he has a proclivity to, uh, amongother things, take credit for things

(01:03:23):
that he had nothing to do with.
So I was worried that some other peoplein the industry would call me and be
like, Corey, what are you doing, man?
I did that, you know, whatever.
Um, so I call it, he also has atendency to, um, make him self.
How can I put it?
Make himself the bride at every weddingand the corpse at every funeral.

(01:03:43):
You know those kind of people?
So I He

David Heredia (01:03:45):
needs that attention.

Yeah, so I hit him up, I'm like, Hey man, you want to be on the show?
And he's like, Oh, well,I could never do that.
I just don't like talking about myself.
And I just like spit out my coffee.
I'm like, dude, have you ever met you?
That's amazing.

I like talking about myself.

Yeah.
So, I mean, lesson learned.
Like, I had a hunch about this dude.
Um, you know, what I don't want to dois, um, uh, platform someone that has a
completely different set of priorities,order of priorities than I do, or an order
of priorities that I can't advocate for.

(01:04:22):
Um, so I, you know, to your point of,of, you've said in a few different
ways in our conversation here is thatbeing clear on, you know, what your own
boundaries are, you Um, so those, thoseare some of the things being able to
tell a story, having a level of intimateconnections so that we can, we can
have these other nonverbal participateparticipants in the conversation, see

(01:04:45):
themselves, be informed and inspired.
Um, while at the same time beingokay with like, okay, that's cool.
You can be part of plenty of otherconversations, but not, not this
one, you know, kind of thing,having, having proper boundaries.
So those are some of the thingsthat come to mind for me.

Joshua Maddux (01:05:00):
The one thing, Corey, as you were talking about that, the
one thing, like, I had a podcast at thebeginning of COVID, you know, we all
were inside, no one could do anything.
And I was like, I need to talk to people.
And so I, I literally just startedtalking to business owners.
And one of the guys I had on theshow was he, um, they were an
installation, installation company.

(01:05:22):
And so like when a new apartmentbuilding went up, they would come in
and put all the insulation in the walls.
And he was like, Oh, I'dlove to be on the show.
And I was like, That is goingto be the most boring episode
in the world, but you know what?
I'm open to having the conversation.
And so I hopped on, it turns outlike this guy's background and
his story and like his LinkedInwas like owner of this company.

(01:05:45):
And that was it.
And I was like, there was noinformation online about this guy.
And so ended up being an incredibleinterview, incredible conversation, a ton
of stuff to, you know, pull from that.
And so I think like at one point.
I look at it going, okay, do I makean assumption about someone going,
you're not going to be a good guest?
Um, and is that something thatlike, you know, I've done that and

(01:06:10):
I went into that conversation going,this might be one of those episodes
that, uh, whoops, got deleted.
Um, but it was really good.
Um, and on the flip side,I've had the opposite happen.
Right.
I was like, I reached out to someonegoing, I think you'd be amazing.
And I drug him in andthen it wasn't amazing.

(01:06:31):
It was, it was bad.

Oh man.
Well, I just want to say Josh and Corey,I just want to thank you for reaching out
to me and just giving me an opportunityto share some of my experiences
and allow me to share my passion.
Because as you mentioned, Um, youknow, I, I, I'm definitely passionate,
passionate about what I do, but Ithink over the years I've learned

(01:06:57):
that I'm more, uh, purposefuland intentional about what I do.
And so I'm led more by purposethan I am by passion these days.
Uh, and I just want to thank you for,uh, recognizing that and just, you know,
giving me another chance to talk about it.

Yeah, no, it's great.
It's a I'm glad to get to know you.
I hope we continue the conversationwhether it's over a coffee or, you
know, at a chamber event or justhanging out, you know, and, you
know, while I'm thinking about it,if you have recommendations for other
community leaders, business leaders,or just, you know, folks who inspire
you, don't hesitate to drop us a lineand say, Hey, this might be a really

(01:07:32):
good idea to talk to this person.
They

need to be a chamber member though, right?

Okay.

Hey, a great reason for them to join the chamber though.

There you go.
There you go.
Although, although I've, I've adoptedthe, uh, with, with our chamber partners,
I've adopted the, uh, better to askforgiveness than permission sometimes.
Oh yeah.

Joshua Maddux (01:07:49):
Yeah.
I get to hear about those.
Um.

You're welcome.
Uh, anyway, this is great.
David.
David.
Uh, this is awesome.
Joshua,
always great hanging out with you, man.
And as always, please follow, rate, andreview us wherever you get your podcasts.
You can find us at TheVoices of Business on social.
Joshua, what's the bestway to find you online?

(01:08:12):
LinkedIn or my agency, 95Visual.
We're around.
Awesome.
And you can follow me at Corey S Nathan.
That's at C O R E Y S.
As in Sam, N E T H A N, at Corey S.
Nathan.
We'd love to have you and other businessleaders join in on the conversation.
Thanks again for listening.
We'll see you next timeon The Voices of Business.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}David Heredia, Founder of Heroes of Color