November 21, 2024 • 54 mins
Hey folks! We are back with a look at the Netflix mini series The Manhattan Abduction. A case that has slipped past us all these years.A story told from 2 perspectives: The abductee and the investigator turned skeptic.With law suits flying around, go watch it while you still can!thanks for listening!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
What's up everybody, Thanks for listening to the what cast.
Yes we're still around. Yes, I've been dragging ass. It's
all me this time. It's only me.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's all me. Why has it been a bit?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Man, the days and weeks bleed together.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, it's a little bit of that. It's a little
bit of zoning out.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, well, I guess that I will also apologize, but
again I'll point my finger back in the tail because
I didn't even know. Yeah, I didn't even know, guys.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That's how zoned out I've been. But I am zoned
back in with a really fun episode. Mike had brought
a documentary that had recently come out to my attention,
called The Manhattan Abduction. I was very shocked to have
not come across this case ever at all. And this
was a blast to watch. Dude, we were talking before
(01:19):
about how much we enjoyed this documentary, but this case
was a blast to watch and learn about. I'm very
glad that you wanted to cover this and that you
had watched this. I don't watch pretty much any TV
at all, so I don't watch hardly any streaming services.
I watched that shit even less, so I'm glad that
you caught this and that we get to talk about this.
(01:41):
But this case is, as the title implies, it's about
an alien abduction that takes place in Manhattan, New York,
which sparked my interest immediately, probably for the same reason
that it sparks yours, and that is, how the hell
does someone get abducted in the middle of Manhattan? And
it's an absolutely bizarre story. It gets weirder than just
(02:01):
somebody getting abducted in New York.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's plenty weird on its own,
though it is, But this was a case. I mean,
it's not too often that we can find like classic
cases that we haven't covered, And like you said, you
hadn't heard of this one, and actually I don't recall
ever hearing about this one either, And I guess I
(02:26):
just kind of chalk it up to it being like
contemporary with me growing up. And when I first got
into aliens, like all the books and stuff that I
would would read as a kid, I got from the library,
and the library only had shit from like the seventies
and maybe early eighties about aliens and shit, So I
(02:49):
knew about the classic cases like you know, Betty and
Barney Hill and all that stuff, but this one I
had never heard of. And then somehow, even like as
I got older, I guess it's probably because I never
read any Bud Hopkins work. And this he wrote a
book about this, you know, way back in the I
think in the early nineties, but I never read it.
(03:12):
And I'm familiar with Bud Hopkins work, but I'm not
familiar with all the witnesses that he worked with. So
chances are I probably came across like this case and
like a like a summary of this case and one
of those compilation books way back when, and it just
kind of, you know, it's it's a typical alien abduction story.
(03:34):
So I just filed it under alien abduction and kept going,
not realizing that all this crazy shit happened.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm very interested in to go back and look in
all my books to see if this case pops up
at all, pops up at all. There's there's two things
that I find very interesting about this case. Is one
you kind of mentioned before. We're both pretty familiar with
Bud's work. If you've listened to Art Bell at all,
you've heard Bud talk. He's done a lot of work.
(04:02):
He's written a lot of books, so it's not like
we've read everything he's ever done, but we're very familiar
with his work and what he does with abductees and
hypnote therapy and all that stuff. And the other thing
that's very interesting about this documentary is about that one
that we haven't heard of this before.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
It just happened.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Maybe I've seen it in the summary, like you're saying,
but this was documented basically as it all happened. So
we get a very up close and personal look at
at this entire case from start to finish. Now, what
do you know of Bud Hopkins, Mike, He's just he's
a ufologist who did a lot with abductees through hypnosis.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Correct, Yeah, a lot of He uncovered a lot of
cases and was kind of like the go to guy
for for the hypnotic regression cases, I guess, And we'll
get into it more later on. But his methods were
(05:02):
called into question later in life, and whether it was
you know, out of like some petty grudge or or
just to be vindictive, or whether it is an accurate
accounting of his methods. It kind of put a bit
(05:23):
of a negative spin on who had always been, you know,
seemingly a credible researcher. You know, he was a believer,
but he wasn't willing to just buy anything. Yeah, he's
he's the guy for these old hypnotic regression cases.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right, that was kind of his thing. So I'll also
mention that this documentary is shot in the form of
a two perspectives. One is through the eyes of a
woman named Linda, who is the abductee in this case,
and the other is through the eyes of a woman
named Carol, who I'll just say right now. I'll have
(06:05):
my thoughts about both women later. But she's the skeptic
now ex wife of Bud Hopkins, who set out to
prove Linda's full of shit.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well, she didn't start out that way though. She started
out as I guess, like an agnostic skeptic, like, you know,
she was kind of there to document everything, and she
over time, based on what she was seeing, started to
kind of believe what was going on. And for a
(06:37):
while she believed what Linda was saying. But then things
kind of turned and she thought that Linda was in
it for the fame and trying to get attention and everything.
Looking at the looking at the documentary, I could see
(06:59):
where she coming from in thinking that Linda is looking
for fame now, so like I can see it from
that side, but also as as it goes on, it
almost seems like she's starting to become jealous of Linda's
relationship with Bud. And because they were married at the time,
(07:19):
I could see how that would be, Like Linda would
call him at all hours, and Bud would get worried
about it, and and she in her mind and this
is what Carol Rainey, that's his ex wife's name. She's
the one who defamed him later in life. And she
(07:41):
said it was she was doing it out of integrity
and and she wanted to make sure that people weren't
being duped or whatever. But she is claiming that he
became emotionally invested in Linda's store, and as a result
of his emotional investment, he stopped, he stopped being objective
(08:08):
and started taking everything she was saying at face value.
And the story, I mean, the story starts crazy. So
the initial event, well I shouldn't say the initially the
inciting incident maybe the one that the talked about abduction.
This happened on November thirtieth and nineteen eighty nine, and
(08:33):
Linda Apolitano was at this point in her life. She
was a stay at home mom that lived in New
York City and she lived on the twelfth floor of
an apartment building. And on that evening there were allegedly
three beings that entered her apartment and abducted her. They
(08:55):
were able to levitate her body and float her through
the window and onto this giant craft that was hovering
over the city, and then from there it's your ear
typical abduction store, you know. They they did experiments on her,
(09:16):
checked her reproductive organs, to blood samples, all that stuff,
and then they returned her back to her bedroom. She
had no recollection of this. Initially, a few months prior
to this event, she had sent Bud Hopkins her first
(09:36):
it was their first correspondent. She had sent him a
letter that was basically reporting a previous encounter that she
had thirteen years ago when she was camping in the
Catskill Mountains.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
She hadn't ever talked about this, but she began to
attend these abduction support groups that Bud Hopkins would run,
and through there she kind of started to develop this
this researcher research e type relationship. So this all the
(10:21):
big one, the New York one that happened November at
the end of November in nineteen eighty nine, and but
going back to the initial one back in in UH
thirteen years before, she felt this lump in her nose
and apparently had X rays done that showed that there
(10:43):
was something there and it looked in the it they
show they show pictures of the X ray in the documentary,
and there it looks like you know what it looked
like to me, like it looked like a spring, like
a clipped spring coil.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, it looked it looked very much like that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
When she contacts Bud, she says that she noticed this
bump on her nose and she went to the doctors
and they told her, yeah, you've had surgery on that
side of your nose. It's all scar tissue. And she
was very edamant that she had never had surgery. And
that's when they did the X ray and they find
what appears to be some type of implants, which we're
both familiar with with alien implants. And I found this
(11:23):
interesting is that when she first contacted Bud with this
and he responded, one of the first things he did
was contact her surgeon and you can see, I mean
it's this is all unfolding in real time. He asks them,
would you be willing to sign an affid David that
you perform this. You know, you're her doctor, you performed
(11:43):
the x ray and you perform the surgery. And they
said absolutely, so that I mean, that's how that's the
evidence that's already being presented as far as what's happening
to Linda.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I love how the documentary actually has like all
these recorded phone calls and ins and stuff. It's it's
really cool how they they were able to cut that
stuff in. It really helps.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, it really does.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Carol is at this point she's his his wife, and
she's a documentary filmmaker, so she was.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Really just trying to document the whole process and and
see if they were able to uncover like any sort
of evidence or or commonalities in the cases that would
that would suggest that this was a real phenomena, right, right.
But the weird thing about this implant, though, was was
(12:34):
once she went to have when she went to have
it removed by a specialist, it had disappeared mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like they tend to like and and we've.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Heard about that a lot, and but we've also heard
of the opposite where I mean, they made a whole
documentary about about the doctor that removed alien implants. So
you know, maybe some of them they don't care about.
I don't know how they how they determine what they're
going to what they're going to take, and what they're
not going to take, I don't know. But so so
(13:06):
this this story with her, with her getting taken out
of her building and everything, like it sounds fucking crazy.
Like you're in New York City, there's going to be
people that saw you floating out of the window or
floating into the sky, or even saw a UFO hovering
above a building.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It was at this point for me that I was like, Okay,
this is probably why I haven't heard of this case,
because after hearing how she was teleported or well levitated
out of her bedroom window and up into the sky
to a waiting gigantic UFO, I was like, I probably
just skimmed.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Right over this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
But then other reports started coming in and there were
I think they said total twenty three people who had
called in to port what they witnessed the one that
got me, and and I don't know how this wasn't
(14:07):
more widely reported and collaborated. But there was a guy
who was on the Brooklyn Bridge who said that he
observed it, and he said he saw that a craft
flew over his vehicle and his vehicle died, and then
there was a blackout, and then during this blackout.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Is when she was abducted.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
But why would his car be the only one that died,
and why wasn't there like widespread reporting of a blackout
and UFO.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right when I heard that part, I mean, his story
was very interesting. He said he was going across the
Brooklyn Bridge there delivering newspapers at that hour, and like
you said, he saw the giant craft and his car died.
And I found that interesting. That's more emp than just
some outage. I looked up blackouts in Manhattan during that year.
(15:00):
It's not reported, so I don't know if the blackout
lasted only a few moments. But there's no real big
record of a blackout happening in New York at this time.
But this this fellah says that that's what he witnessed
and saw this craft, and didn't he say he saw
her fly out her window and up into the craft.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, yep, he because because he said he thought it
was a movie. He thought maybe they were filming a movie.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that was said by a few of the other witnesses.
There was a few people who they actually get on
film and they say they film movies here all the time.
And when I looked up and saw a lady and
accurately describing what she wears to bed, mind you, a
lady in a white nightcown come out of her window
and go up into the sky and disappear.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
That was said by a few people. It was bizarre.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
But I just found that fascinating. As I mean, like
we all know, they film a lot of movies in
New York and the people who live there are probably
pretty used to that, and for them to see that
and equate it to it looking some like out of
a movie is just bizarre.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well really, I mean when faced was something like that,
what else are you gonna think?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I was so surprised that that many people came forward,
which we will get into a little bit later. But yeah,
So after this, this is her initial report to Bud
and she goes through hypnotherapy a few times does a
few sessions with Bud and it's all videotaped by Carol.
(16:26):
But some time after this, Linda calls Bud in a
in a complete frantic state and said that she was
visited by two men claiming to be police officers, and
they introduced themselves as Dance.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
To Jones and Will Smith.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Was I was waiting for that in the documentary, but
it didn't go that crazy.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
They introduced him.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, they introduced themselves as Dan and Richard, and they
said that they were police officers who happened to be
parked outside of Linda's apartment building that night and saw
Linda fly out of her window and up into the
sky and disappear, and they wanted to know how she
did that. Now, one of them, Dan became very pushy
(17:10):
and even threatening to Linda to the point that she
demanded that they leave. And she said to Bud that
she watched Richard grab Dan by the collar and slam
him into the wall of her hallway while while pretty
much bashing him for being rough and that forward with Linda.
Apparently he got pretty pretty uh rough with her as
(17:34):
far as what.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
He was saying is verbiage towards her and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, he got his panties all bunched of right, right?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
What did you think when you heard this? I mean,
this is this is pretty weird. I mean we're watching
Bud get the call. It's all recorded, this is happening
in real time.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a really weird story. And
it gets weirder from there even but the uh, it
just it had a very men in black sort of
vibe to it. And then when she added the fact
that one of them grabbed the other by the collar
and started slamming them against a wall, Like, what the
(18:13):
fuck is going on there?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Man? Right, that's not protocol for police officers. Right off
the bat, we can tell they're not police officers. Yeah,
and that ended up being true, I guess. Three weeks
after this visit, but himself received an audio cassette tape
from Richard. He was apologetic and confessed that they were
not police officers, that they were, in fact, federal agents
(18:38):
acting as security for the Secretary General of the UN.
What did you think about that, Mike.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That was a fun little twist. I did enjoy that.
And apparently, based on what they were saying, the Secretary
General also witnessed this event. He was in the car
with them, and they the three of them, witnessed it together.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, kind a very weird twist to a weird twist.
But Bud being an investigator in his partner and all this,
I forget the gentleman's name, forgive me. If you guys
watch it, you'll you'll see him there. But he said that,
but was a hell of an investigator, and Bud, being
a good investigator, got right to the idea of looking
at recent news footage of this un dude coming and
(19:27):
going from the UN building, And as crazy as that sounds,
sure enough Linda spotted both of them, pointed them out
in many videos of people escorting this un big big
guy back and forth.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So that I don't necessarily take as being confirmation of anything,
because if she was making and we'll get we'll get into,
you know, the the our opinions on the case. But
if she was making this up, it would be very
easy to just like, if you saw that guy, you're like, oh,
(20:01):
look his his bodyguards, because obviously he's gonna have a
you know, security detail. So you just point out two
assholes that are in more than one picture and that's them.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Right, right, not not difficult to do, so they they
you know. Of course, during this time, I don't know, Mike,
it seemed to me that they try to make it
look like this whole time she was making TV appearances
on Fucking Heraldo Rivera Donahue and all the other talk
(20:32):
shows at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Well at least Bud was right.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, So Bud was doing he was making the rounds
with various people that he was working with, and they
do show one and they I can't remember the dude's name,
but they this guy who was an abductee himself, and
the crowd's like laughing at him. He's getting all pissed
off about it, and like I felt bad for him
(20:58):
because it's got a like to have this horrific experience happen,
and then you have the uh, everyone that you're telling
your experience to just laughing at you like you're a
fucking joke, and like like he he was very earnest,
you know, like I I didn't. There wasn't anything about
(21:19):
him that gave me the vibe that he would be
like making shit up just for kicks and then getting
all indignant about it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right, I agree with that the guy who you're talking about,
and he yeah, he did get upset. And it was
a very stark reminder of why people don't come forward
with this information and tell their stories. Yeah, it seems
that every show or every appearance that they made, no
matter what they were saying, I mean just people were
laughing and jeering while the host was explaining what Bud
(21:50):
Hopkins did. It was just it was it was And
I fell bad for them too, and I was just like, Wow,
that's why, that's why people don't come out with the stories.
I wouldn't after seeing how they were treated, right.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I mean I wouldn't even you know, I I have,
I have the platform to do it where people would
listen and be like, oh shit, he was abducted. And
I still wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I wouldn't tell any of you guys.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Right, I would have to agree after watching how these
people were treated. And I don't think if I mean
it was back in the eighties and nineties, I don't
think people would treat people who were telling the story.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, and I think they'd be looked at a bit
differently now, but even still, like I don't I think
a lot of people like we just in the past,
you know what eight years we've we've only just started
seeing UFOs being covered seriously on the news without having
the X Files theme play, right, right, and some like
(22:46):
smarmy asshole just be like aliens in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You know, like, fuck you asshole. Maybe there are.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, they just had another one of those hearings, didn't
they heard There was a bunch of nothing.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Just yeah, aliens in the ocean.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Is that what they talked about.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
They they talked about a craft that came out of
the ocean.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah. Yeah, they've said that a hundred times.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, so you know, aliens, aliens are real, man. Yeah,
They're just all over and that's just how it is now.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, just accept it. But even but even even still
with all this stuff going on, like people talking about
being abducted are still kind of, you know, if not
outright laughed at it, not exactly believed, right, So, but
but getting back to it, Yeah, at that time, Bud
Hopkins was doing a lot of different shows and and
(23:40):
Linda was like his his uh prized poodle so to speak,
you know, like she she was an attractive mother who
had this story and she she was really good on camera.
And kind of you know, had this character and even
even now in the in the documentary, like she's what
(24:01):
in her in her probably seventies now I don't exactly know,
but sixties, seventies and even now, like she's got it,
she's got a presence for the camera. And like there's
one there was one point where I rolled my eyes
and it was it was kind of cringe worthy, but
where she's talking about when she was a singer and
(24:24):
she's lip syncing her old song and like like she's
performing it in her living room, and it was you know.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Right, Yeah, that part was a little cringey. I think
that was a bad Yeah, a bad choice probably.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, that was a bad choice there, but right, but
it just goes to s like she's got she has
a stage presence.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, so I wouldn't they revealed that she had been
I mean, she released a record, she was signed to
a label, and like by the time she was fifteen.
I might add the music that they played that with
her singing was fucking fantastic. It was really good. But
when they said that, I kind of was like, ah,
I see, because she does have a presence about her,
(25:04):
even all the re enactments she did like too good
of a job, too good of a job. So she
does have a presence about there her And we'll get
into that later about what Carol has to say about that,
because she notices that too.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, but it makes sense that he would want to
bring her on these shows. You know, she's very well spoken,
she's a mother, She's got this story. There's witnesses, so
it makes it a very compelling case. And she doesn't
seem like she's bad shit. So she started being like
(25:40):
the face of Bud's research for a while. But I
did think it was weird how she reverted back to
covering herself like that. There was I think on Ricky
Lake she was on, but she stood. She stayed behind
a screen so you couldn't see who she was.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
She did.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
She did go on Ricky Lake and requests to stay
anonymous at this point in time because after Dan and
Richard said that they worked for the government, after she
learned that there might be possible government involvement, and she
kind of got scared a little bit, which is understandable. Yeah,
Dick and Dan linger in around. Who wants to deal
with those assholes?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah? I don't.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So after this once again Linda calls Bud in a panic,
and this time she says that she believed that she
she had just been abducted right then and there, and
that the aliens were back. So he has her come over.
They do more hypnosis and it's revealed that yes, the
aliens did come back, but now it seems that they're
(26:42):
abducting her whole family. Her son, Jimmy, and her husband
were all found by Linda standing in the living room
in the days with nosebleeds. So b interviews Johnny and
after the interview, he wholeheartedly believes that Johnny had been
abducted as well. Oh and at this point in time,
(27:03):
Carol is starting to doubt Linda's story. As you watched
this documentary, Mike, did this reoccurrence of an abduction raise
your eyebrow at all or where you're just like, holy shit,
I can't believe this happen.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Honestly, I started calling it into question when Dick and
Dan showed up. Okay, okay, that for me, that seem
because they did the the initial investigation for her abduction,
and you know, they had done all that, they had
done her whole thing, and you know, once that's done,
(27:40):
like what more is there? You've already you've done everything, Like,
unless you've got more shit going on, you know, we're
moving on to other cases. But then she had more
shit going on, and then she had more shit going on,
and then she had more shit going on. So it
kept it just kept being more and more and more,
(28:00):
and it just it it gets to a point where
where do you draw the line, Like all this wacky
shit is happening to just this person? Like you've interviewed
so many people, You've done this for so many people,
none of the shit has ever happened, and now you're
getting all this weird shit happening to this one witness
(28:21):
the face.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Of your research.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And that's that's where I started calling it. But but
then listening to the because again they recorded most of
the calls that Butt had with her listening to her
on the other end of the line, like I it's
it sounded very much like a performance.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, And Carol, Carol was getting that same feeling about
this is at this point, after this second abduction, This
is when Carol started to dealt with the story more
than more than believe it. But she also notices Bud's
emotional attachment to Linda, and they played some phone calls
(29:05):
between the two of them, and he is a little
bit dramatic, I think. But Carol said that this.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But Carol said that this set off alarm bells for her.
So she decided to go back and look at all
the hypnosis sessions that they had done over the years.
And she, like I said, she had been Bud's wife
at this time. She had been filming all their hypnosis sessions,
and she compared them to Linda's. And now there's a discrepancy. Mike,
(29:34):
we've talked about hypnosis before. What did you think about
and please explain this specific discrepancy that Carol noticed the
fact that.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
She she Carol felt that Linda was not in like
the deep state that people are in when they're under hypnosis,
and she noticed certain features of her face and the
way she was talking. It appeared more like somebody who
(30:06):
was faking being hypnotized than someone who was actually hypnotized.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Now did you agree with that statement? I mean, there
was a clear difference. I mean most of the people
that were hypnotized.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I mean, I mean, I'm not a I'm no expert,
so I can't speak with any sort of authority, but yeah,
it looked to me like someone with their eyes closed
telling a story, not someone recalling memories through hypnosis.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
What she notices for me, what stuck out the most
is the all these people that are under hypnosis, which
I mean, I agree with her statement that this is
how most of the time that people who are under
hypnosis act. They're kind of slow and searching for words
and having trouble recollect things, and she just goes back
and plays for you, you know, while she's pointing this out,
all these systems with Linda, And like you said, Mike,
(30:59):
that's a great to put it is that she was
just telling a story with her eyes closed. She was
very matter of fact, didn't hesitate on anything. It just
seemed very odd. And for me that's when I went, hey,
I don't think that lady's hypnotized at all.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, So we we get this story that her her
family one hundred percent believes. So that's that's where the
weird thing comes in. Like did she convince her entire
family to live this lie or did she Is she
(31:34):
capable of cult level brainwashing? Did she hypnotize them or
is something really happening, and she's just hamming.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It up, right, I mean, what do we say about
twenty three separate witnesses at this point?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
You know? I mean right? Right?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So, I mean, like we talked about the Ricky Lake appearance,
she wanted to stay anonymous because of the potential government involvement,
and it again through her paranoia, proves to be worthwhile
to notice because she calls Bud in a panic yet again.
This time she claims she had been kidnapped and held
(32:12):
against her will, but no.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
She literally she calls him during the kidnapping.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
During the kidnapping. Okay, well how did I miss this?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
They so, so there's they've got the call. She calls
him saying that she's being followed, and he's like all, like,
you know, being being dramatic with her, like like he
has been in previous calls. And then you just hear
her scream and you hear a man's voice. I can't
remember what he said, something like you're not you can't
(32:41):
get away from us or something. I can't remember exactly
what he said, but yeah, he abducts her.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Now, who is this person that that's abducted her? It
wasn't it Dick and Dan. Okay, Yeah, that's what I
wanted to make sure because in my notes I had
that written down, but then I didn't remember for sure.
So so yeah, and that's and she just, I mean,
happens to call Bud while it's happening, so we he's
recording it. So we have this abduction on tape, right.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, And and that's what I'm saying. It's like there's
always more, you know, it's continuing on. It's it's not
it just and it just gets like it keeps topping itself,
you know. It's not like it's not like she's she
just saw another UFO, like, oh my god, I saw
this weird lightnessuse. No, she's being abducted by federal agents
(33:34):
now in public.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, allegedly, so uh, I mean back to back to
the waiting arms of Bud. She goes, and in my
notes here, Mike, I have.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
The wrath of Carol.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
This is when Carol says, that's that's well well said,
the wrath of Carol.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Indeed, Yeah, she she said this was complete bullshit and
she was not gonna buy this anymore. And she was
watching Bud become more invested into Linda and her story.
At this point in time, there was movie deals that
were made, Bud's new book on this case was going
to come out. So what does Carol do? She launches
(34:14):
a full investigation of her own into this investigation of
Linda's story.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And this, I mean, yeah, she's investigating the investigation.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Now right right, This is where I was shocked. This
shocked me for me. Bud's always been seen as legit.
Bud's Bud fucking Hopkins, man. I mean, he's fucking the
hypnotherapy guy. Like I said at the beginning, as well
as Michael. We're both familiar with his work, maybe not
every little bit of it, but we know who he is.
(34:45):
But BOYD did Carol ruin that for me? After interviewing
the twenty three witnesses, we found that most of them, man,
should not have been ever considered as witnesses. There was
a lot of them that saw nothing. There was a
lady who saw a light outside but didn't bother looking
at it. There was even one of their witnesses when
Linda was doing this investigation that she.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Found that sounded a lot like Linda. So when she
press would I wouldn't say.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
A lot, I would say exactly like Linda, right when
she played almost like Linda called and said, hey, I
saw a UFO abduct somebody and there was a power
outage also exactly, and then they couldn't find this person. Yes,
this was the only witness they couldn't track down, who
was like always in the shower or taking a dump
(35:34):
or something.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
They when when Carol brought this information to Bud one,
he didn't like it very much at all, but he said,
she told him trying to track this witness down, this
one that sounds like Linda, and they have it on
film when he calls them and oh, she's already gone
to bed or she's left for work early. So this
person they couldn't get a hold of, which I found
extremely suspicious. And furthermore, she uh. This whole time, they
(36:02):
were getting letters, more and more letters and tapes from
Richard and Dan. Some of these letters we had written
parts of them on like whe who they're addressed to,
And Carol had a handwriting expert take a look at
these these letters. And what ended up happening is that
they proved that one of the letters in some of
(36:25):
these letters that were sent they matched Linda's handwriting and
they also proved that one of the signatures that's supposed
to be this dude from the un was a copy
from a previous signature, and he talked about how people
do not sign their signature the same way twice and
it's just an exact match.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
And so it.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Proves that these letters were being faked. And she also,
you know, made a good point that she caught Bud
just straight up ignoring evidence that would go against this case,
and that was one of the major things for her,
that he was just ignoring the fact that these witnesses
(37:08):
basically had fucking nothing to say, that he was just
using them as a number. Cool they came forward and
she decided to write a big old report on this
and publish it. And like you said, Mike, maybe why
we don't hear about this this case, I don't go
to like I don't believe shit skeptic homie dot com,
(37:32):
but I don't think this would be promoted. And a
lot of the things that we read about Bud Hopkins,
but this effectively just destroyed his career. The movie deal
was canceled, his book didn't come out, you know, anytime
soon after that, and it led to their no the
book came out, it wasn't republished.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, the publisher said they weren't going to republish it.
So I'd imagine probably now if you're looking for that book,
it's probably going to be very expensive, right.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
So for me, I mean, like you said, it doesn't
have to be true that these dudes that Linda pointed
out were these actually dudes.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
That was the first questionable thing.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
But there's a part of me that says, I mean,
those letters were faked, but maybe they weren't faked by Linda.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Did you think that at all?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
But why was Linda's handwriting on the return envelope?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think that if there's somebody trying to fuck with him,
especially at a federal government level, that they can do
that quite easily.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Their job is to muddy the waters.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Well, I mean, this is probably not going to come
as a surprise to any of our longtime listeners, but
I do not buy Linda Napolitano's story, and even less
now that the documentary has come out. So, since the
documentary has come out, Carol Rainey has passed away, She's
(39:05):
no longer with us. But Linda is saying that Rainy
she was doing all of this because she was an embittered,
alcoholic ex wife who just wanted revenge against Bud and
that's the reason. But Linda is suing Netflix because she's
(39:30):
stating that the documentary defames her and it paints her
in an unflattering light. And she said she agreed to
have her story told by Netflix after she was promised
that there would only be one interview with Rainie that
was used and that she would be allowed to tell
(39:51):
the true story of her abduction and that's the way
it would be presented.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Hmmm, I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, So she is now suing them for putting this
out and kind of shining a light on maybe the
evidence that she is a fraud. But the one thing,
the one thing that still gets me is her son
still like he didn't want his face revealed, so they
(40:21):
they did interview him, but they concealed his face, but
he talked about it and he said it was very
real and what she's saying happened. So again, if if
either he has just been conditioned to lie about this
so much that now he believes the lie. This is
(40:45):
part of his life now. But he's like he said,
he's had to he's had to undergo therapy numerous times
as a result of this. He basically has PTSD because
of what he experienced, and that's I mean, you're not
gonna have PTSD for nothing. So something caused that that
(41:06):
he relates to this story.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Right when they when they brought him out, he said,
when he when he didn't want to show his face,
I said out loud to myself and says, man, this
experience fucked him up a little bit. And one of
the first things he says is that this whole experience fucked.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Me up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And he talked about how he's in therapy, and I mean,
if he's going through therapy, I mean he's older now,
he's he has.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Been going through therapy.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
With that being the case, I think I think somebody
would have been able to detect some type of brainwashing.
I think somebody would have worked out, you know, going
back through the memories and maybe remembering his mother telling him,
you know, you've got to say this. We'll get a
bigger apartment if they if you say this, you'll get
fucking you know, whatever you want if you say this.
(41:59):
That I think that would have come up and he
was very honest about how it was something that happened
that it fucking sucked. It wasn't fucking cool. He sounded
like a lot of he sounded like a lot of abductees.
He sounded like some people that we've talked to about
being abducted, and it just wasn't a cool fucking thing
(42:19):
at all. And he didn't know what to fucking tell you.
But that what his mother said is what's happened. So
now at the end, as I watched this documentary, I
watched the first episode and I was like, whoa dude,
why haven't we heard about this? And you're like, just wait.
And the second episode came on. I was like, bro,
there's twenty three fucking witnesses and you're like just wait.
(42:42):
And then the third episode, I was like, oh man,
this thing's probably all bullshit. What do you think about
the things that this case presents that just aren't bullshit?
I mean, there's there's not twenty three witnesses that saw
into fly out of her window, but there is still
I think three or four people who said that they
saw her. They described that what she was wearing when
(43:06):
it happened. Her son sticking to his story like that
her husband, they talked to him and he says, all
this happened. I know that Linda had away with a camera,
the pictures that she showed of who she was singing
to when she was fifteen years old. I mean it
was like John fucking Wayne. I mean, she was k
(43:27):
new like Lyzaman Nelly and like crazy shit. She was
rather successful, and she did give that up to be
a mom. But I don't think anybody in their right
mind thinks they're gonna get a fucking record deal by
telling a story about aliens taking them. I don't think
she thinks that at all. I think that they start
(43:47):
the documentary with Linda saying, you know, like what you said,
you're a fucking alcoholic, bitter, fucking jealous ex wife. And
I mean Carol just clearly puts that across, clearly feels
that way. She very much seems like a scorned woman
right off the bat. She made a couple of statements
that maybe just like go oh wow, okay, And it's
(44:10):
not like an attitude from somebody that I'm I'm unfamiliar with.
I've seen many people, both men and women, have this
fucking attitude about somebody that their significant other had to.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Work with or deal with.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
But she said, uh, Linda was quote, Linda was the
queen bee because she became the center of attention. I'm sorry, dude,
who else is going to be the center of attention
during a fucking UFO abduction case? Probably the abductee, you know.
And then she kept kept saying how how Linda always
had to make sure her hair look nice when there's
(44:43):
a camera around. I'm every woman I know would would
do the same thing. That doesn't surprise me, that doesn't
seem like a conceited type thing or like trying to
play it up to the camera. I think that, uh,
there's some holes in Linda's story, or at least some
parts that are surrounding her story. But I think Carol
(45:03):
very much seemed vindictive and upset that Bud took us
shining to Linda in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's really easy to see
that side of it, you know, But it's also there's
just there's weird things on both sides really, you know,
like the I I don't think that the events happened
the way that they are reported to have happened. You know,
(45:33):
the silly men and black stuff, the I don't even
think the abduction happened. My My main question is why
her son feels like it happened.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
What do you what do you say? I mean, in
both sides, both directions, there's undeniable evidence. In both directions,
there's still there's you know, there's letters where faked. I
just don't buy Linda being abduct and then recording the
whole fucking thing. I just don't buy that. But then
there are there were witnesses that even Carol went back
(46:07):
and talked to that said no, we watched it happen.
There's just an irrefutable evidence in both directions.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, to me, there's more evidence that fuckery is afoot
than there is truth to the claims they The fact
that there's so many witnesses is compelling, But how out
of the realm of possibility is it that it's actually
(46:39):
just a handful of people calling and changing their voices
and reporting the same or similar thing. You know, maybe
she had some people in on it, and and maybe
now that this documentary is out, maybe will start getting
people coming out and being like, yeah, that I was
Linda's friend and we cooked this up.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Overwine one night. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
You know, and then you know, I got my brother
to do it and my husband and then I called
in and we made it a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
But maybe not.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
And even if we do, it's gonna be like the
guy who claimed to be Bigfoot.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
You'll have people that are like, well, that's case closes.
I have other people being like, let's get this guy's
a fucking liar.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
The documentary left me with a feeling A question I
had for you. Watching the hypnosis tapes from the other people,
the other abductees, not just Linda's but mostly the other people's,
and hearing Linda's story and me believing part of it,
I walked away with two questions for you. Do you
(47:47):
think that Budd and Linda were working together to just
straight up fake a fucking story.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
See. I don't want to think that of Bud. I
really don't. And and based on everything else that people
say about Bud, I don't think that's necessarily the case.
But I do think that once he got invested in
this case, that he turned a blind eye because I
(48:14):
think he genuinely thought Linda was getting upset about things.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Because of that he lost I mean, I think that
Carol's got a point and that I do think, and
at least in regard to Linda, he lost his objectivity
and he started taking everything that she said at face value.
So when Linda was getting the attention from him and
(48:40):
she called to say she was just abducted, and he
rushed over at like fucking two in the morning or whatever,
and then she's on the phone with him when she
gets kidnapped by federal agents, and I don't know, it's
all too convenient.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Right, yeah, little just how it kept unfolding and twisting.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
I was like, oh my god. But the other, the other,
the other thing I.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Was left wondering is after, like I said, listening to
those other abductees that during their hypnosis and just watching
that on everything you know, from sightings to unsolved mysteries
when we're kids to now watching that stuff. Having all
this time to think about that stuff and listen to
what they're saying and they're reporting and what abductees to
say when they go through hypnosis, do you think there's
(49:27):
a chance that we're all just getting fucking abducted and
there's just a handful of us that have adverse reaction
to however they do. It's whatever method they use to
make us forget. No, no, I do not.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
And I'm still kind of of the mind that it's
humans behind the whole abduction thing. Mm hmm. And it's
just a usage usage of hypnosis and probably some sort
of drug concoction too, uh make make the uh, make
(50:03):
the people believe that they've been abducted.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yep, that is a possibility. I mean, that's it's not
a possibility. There's we've talked about cases to where that
is the case.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, it's it's the uh military abductions.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
Yeah, but flying them out of window though, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I mean, well, yeah, I mean that's that's assuming that
what that her story is true, which I'm not assuming
that for a second. I'm assuming quite the opposite.
Speaker 3 (50:34):
I just I want to know.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
The the stuff that supports the story. There's got to
be a reason behind it. The witnesses, there needs to
be a reason behind it. Her son thinking he was
abducted and believing everything about her story, there's got to
be a reason for it.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, there has to be. Well, you guys watched the
documentary while it's available. If those fucking people are gonna
get sued.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
She Yeah, yeah, that's that's the world we live in.
But again it's it just kind of that supports the
idea that she wants to keep the attention on her, right,
you know, like, oh, I got a documentary about me.
(51:19):
Now once the documentary is over, now I can sue,
and that's gonna keep my name active.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
Right. I would be like, I was in your favor,
your goofball. Why are you suing these people? Yeah? So,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Maybe maybe she is, uh, maybe she's just crazier than
we think she is. Or maybe she does a lot
of acid and maybe she gave some acid to her son,
and that's.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
I don't know. Will you guys watch it, let us
know what you think.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
And yeah, you're not even safe on the twelve floor, motherfuckers.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, they're coming for you.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
They're gonna get you.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Thank you for listening to The What Cast. You can
find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, iTunes, on YouTube. Enjoy
the podcast, get yourself a what Cast T shirt or
a stick or pack. Who was that dude on that
one episode? Try the links in homies page. All this
and more can be found at www dot thewcasters dot com.
(52:23):
Thanks again for listening and have a great week and.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Set. But I don't have to do to P
What's up everybody, Thanks for listening to the what cast.
Yes we're still around. Yes, I've been dragging ass. It's
all me this time. It's only me.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's all me. Why has it been a bit?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Man, the days and weeks bleed together.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, it's a little bit of that. It's a little
bit of zoning out.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, well, I guess that I will also apologize, but
again I'll point my finger back in the tail because
I didn't even know. Yeah, I didn't even know, guys.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That's how zoned out I've been. But I am zoned
back in with a really fun episode. Mike had brought
a documentary that had recently come out to my attention,
called The Manhattan Abduction. I was very shocked to have
not come across this case ever at all. And this
was a blast to watch. Dude, we were talking before
(01:19):
about how much we enjoyed this documentary, but this case
was a blast to watch and learn about. I'm very
glad that you wanted to cover this and that you
had watched this. I don't watch pretty much any TV
at all, so I don't watch hardly any streaming services.
I watched that shit even less, so I'm glad that
you caught this and that we get to talk about this.
(01:41):
But this case is, as the title implies, it's about
an alien abduction that takes place in Manhattan, New York,
which sparked my interest immediately, probably for the same reason
that it sparks yours, and that is, how the hell
does someone get abducted in the middle of Manhattan? And
it's an absolutely bizarre story. It gets weirder than just
(02:01):
somebody getting abducted in New York.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's plenty weird on its own,
though it is, But this was a case. I mean,
it's not too often that we can find like classic
cases that we haven't covered, And like you said, you
hadn't heard of this one, and actually I don't recall
ever hearing about this one either, And I guess I
(02:26):
just kind of chalk it up to it being like
contemporary with me growing up. And when I first got
into aliens, like all the books and stuff that I
would would read as a kid, I got from the library,
and the library only had shit from like the seventies
and maybe early eighties about aliens and shit, So I
(02:49):
knew about the classic cases like you know, Betty and
Barney Hill and all that stuff, but this one I
had never heard of. And then somehow, even like as
I got older, I guess it's probably because I never
read any Bud Hopkins work. And this he wrote a
book about this, you know, way back in the I
think in the early nineties, but I never read it.
(03:12):
And I'm familiar with Bud Hopkins work, but I'm not
familiar with all the witnesses that he worked with. So
chances are I probably came across like this case and
like a like a summary of this case and one
of those compilation books way back when, and it just
kind of, you know, it's it's a typical alien abduction story.
(03:34):
So I just filed it under alien abduction and kept going,
not realizing that all this crazy shit happened.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm very interested in to go back and look in
all my books to see if this case pops up
at all, pops up at all. There's there's two things
that I find very interesting about this case. Is one
you kind of mentioned before. We're both pretty familiar with
Bud's work. If you've listened to Art Bell at all,
you've heard Bud talk. He's done a lot of work.
(04:02):
He's written a lot of books, so it's not like
we've read everything he's ever done, but we're very familiar
with his work and what he does with abductees and
hypnote therapy and all that stuff. And the other thing
that's very interesting about this documentary is about that one
that we haven't heard of this before.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
It just happened.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Maybe I've seen it in the summary, like you're saying,
but this was documented basically as it all happened. So
we get a very up close and personal look at
at this entire case from start to finish. Now, what
do you know of Bud Hopkins, Mike, He's just he's
a ufologist who did a lot with abductees through hypnosis.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Correct, Yeah, a lot of He uncovered a lot of
cases and was kind of like the go to guy
for for the hypnotic regression cases, I guess, And we'll
get into it more later on. But his methods were
(05:02):
called into question later in life, and whether it was
you know, out of like some petty grudge or or
just to be vindictive, or whether it is an accurate
accounting of his methods. It kind of put a bit
(05:23):
of a negative spin on who had always been, you know,
seemingly a credible researcher. You know, he was a believer,
but he wasn't willing to just buy anything. Yeah, he's
he's the guy for these old hypnotic regression cases.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right, that was kind of his thing. So I'll also
mention that this documentary is shot in the form of
a two perspectives. One is through the eyes of a
woman named Linda, who is the abductee in this case,
and the other is through the eyes of a woman
named Carol, who I'll just say right now. I'll have
(06:05):
my thoughts about both women later. But she's the skeptic
now ex wife of Bud Hopkins, who set out to
prove Linda's full of shit.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Well, she didn't start out that way though. She started
out as I guess, like an agnostic skeptic, like, you know,
she was kind of there to document everything, and she
over time, based on what she was seeing, started to
kind of believe what was going on. And for a
(06:37):
while she believed what Linda was saying. But then things
kind of turned and she thought that Linda was in
it for the fame and trying to get attention and everything.
Looking at the looking at the documentary, I could see
(06:59):
where she coming from in thinking that Linda is looking
for fame now, so like I can see it from
that side, but also as as it goes on, it
almost seems like she's starting to become jealous of Linda's
relationship with Bud. And because they were married at the time,
(07:19):
I could see how that would be, Like Linda would
call him at all hours, and Bud would get worried
about it, and and she in her mind and this
is what Carol Rainey, that's his ex wife's name. She's
the one who defamed him later in life. And she
(07:41):
said it was she was doing it out of integrity
and and she wanted to make sure that people weren't
being duped or whatever. But she is claiming that he
became emotionally invested in Linda's store, and as a result
of his emotional investment, he stopped, he stopped being objective
(08:08):
and started taking everything she was saying at face value.
And the story, I mean, the story starts crazy. So
the initial event, well I shouldn't say the initially the
inciting incident maybe the one that the talked about abduction.
This happened on November thirtieth and nineteen eighty nine, and
(08:33):
Linda Apolitano was at this point in her life. She
was a stay at home mom that lived in New
York City and she lived on the twelfth floor of
an apartment building. And on that evening there were allegedly
three beings that entered her apartment and abducted her. They
(08:55):
were able to levitate her body and float her through
the window and onto this giant craft that was hovering
over the city, and then from there it's your ear
typical abduction store, you know. They they did experiments on her,
(09:16):
checked her reproductive organs, to blood samples, all that stuff,
and then they returned her back to her bedroom. She
had no recollection of this. Initially, a few months prior
to this event, she had sent Bud Hopkins her first
(09:36):
it was their first correspondent. She had sent him a
letter that was basically reporting a previous encounter that she
had thirteen years ago when she was camping in the
Catskill Mountains.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
She hadn't ever talked about this, but she began to
attend these abduction support groups that Bud Hopkins would run,
and through there she kind of started to develop this
this researcher research e type relationship. So this all the
(10:21):
big one, the New York one that happened November at
the end of November in nineteen eighty nine, and but
going back to the initial one back in in UH
thirteen years before, she felt this lump in her nose
and apparently had X rays done that showed that there
(10:43):
was something there and it looked in the it they
show they show pictures of the X ray in the documentary,
and there it looks like you know what it looked
like to me, like it looked like a spring, like
a clipped spring coil.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, it looked it looked very much like that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
When she contacts Bud, she says that she noticed this
bump on her nose and she went to the doctors
and they told her, yeah, you've had surgery on that
side of your nose. It's all scar tissue. And she
was very edamant that she had never had surgery. And
that's when they did the X ray and they find
what appears to be some type of implants, which we're
both familiar with with alien implants. And I found this
(11:23):
interesting is that when she first contacted Bud with this
and he responded, one of the first things he did
was contact her surgeon and you can see, I mean
it's this is all unfolding in real time. He asks them,
would you be willing to sign an affid David that
you perform this. You know, you're her doctor, you performed
(11:43):
the x ray and you perform the surgery. And they
said absolutely, so that I mean, that's how that's the
evidence that's already being presented as far as what's happening
to Linda.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I love how the documentary actually has like all
these recorded phone calls and ins and stuff. It's it's
really cool how they they were able to cut that
stuff in. It really helps.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, it really does.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Carol is at this point she's his his wife, and
she's a documentary filmmaker, so she was.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Really just trying to document the whole process and and
see if they were able to uncover like any sort
of evidence or or commonalities in the cases that would
that would suggest that this was a real phenomena, right, right.
But the weird thing about this implant, though, was was
(12:34):
once she went to have when she went to have
it removed by a specialist, it had disappeared mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like they tend to like and and we've.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Heard about that a lot, and but we've also heard
of the opposite where I mean, they made a whole
documentary about about the doctor that removed alien implants. So
you know, maybe some of them they don't care about.
I don't know how they how they determine what they're
going to what they're going to take, and what they're
not going to take, I don't know. But so so
(13:06):
this this story with her, with her getting taken out
of her building and everything, like it sounds fucking crazy.
Like you're in New York City, there's going to be
people that saw you floating out of the window or
floating into the sky, or even saw a UFO hovering
above a building.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It was at this point for me that I was like, Okay,
this is probably why I haven't heard of this case,
because after hearing how she was teleported or well levitated
out of her bedroom window and up into the sky
to a waiting gigantic UFO, I was like, I probably
just skimmed.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Right over this. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
But then other reports started coming in and there were
I think they said total twenty three people who had
called in to port what they witnessed the one that
got me, and and I don't know how this wasn't
(14:07):
more widely reported and collaborated. But there was a guy
who was on the Brooklyn Bridge who said that he
observed it, and he said he saw that a craft
flew over his vehicle and his vehicle died, and then
there was a blackout, and then during this blackout.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Is when she was abducted.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
But why would his car be the only one that died,
and why wasn't there like widespread reporting of a blackout
and UFO.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right when I heard that part, I mean, his story
was very interesting. He said he was going across the
Brooklyn Bridge there delivering newspapers at that hour, and like
you said, he saw the giant craft and his car died.
And I found that interesting. That's more emp than just
some outage. I looked up blackouts in Manhattan during that year.
(15:00):
It's not reported, so I don't know if the blackout
lasted only a few moments. But there's no real big
record of a blackout happening in New York at this time.
But this this fellah says that that's what he witnessed
and saw this craft, and didn't he say he saw
her fly out her window and up into the craft.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, yep, he because because he said he thought it
was a movie. He thought maybe they were filming a movie.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
And that was said by a few of the other witnesses.
There was a few people who they actually get on
film and they say they film movies here all the time.
And when I looked up and saw a lady and
accurately describing what she wears to bed, mind you, a
lady in a white nightcown come out of her window
and go up into the sky and disappear.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
That was said by a few people. It was bizarre.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
But I just found that fascinating. As I mean, like
we all know, they film a lot of movies in
New York and the people who live there are probably
pretty used to that, and for them to see that
and equate it to it looking some like out of
a movie is just bizarre.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well really, I mean when faced was something like that,
what else are you gonna think?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I was so surprised that that many people came forward,
which we will get into a little bit later. But yeah,
So after this, this is her initial report to Bud
and she goes through hypnotherapy a few times does a
few sessions with Bud and it's all videotaped by Carol.
(16:26):
But some time after this, Linda calls Bud in a
in a complete frantic state and said that she was
visited by two men claiming to be police officers, and
they introduced themselves as Dance.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
To Jones and Will Smith.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Was I was waiting for that in the documentary, but
it didn't go that crazy.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
They introduced him.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, they introduced themselves as Dan and Richard, and they
said that they were police officers who happened to be
parked outside of Linda's apartment building that night and saw
Linda fly out of her window and up into the
sky and disappear, and they wanted to know how she
did that. Now, one of them, Dan became very pushy
(17:10):
and even threatening to Linda to the point that she
demanded that they leave. And she said to Bud that
she watched Richard grab Dan by the collar and slam
him into the wall of her hallway while while pretty
much bashing him for being rough and that forward with Linda.
Apparently he got pretty pretty uh rough with her as
(17:34):
far as what.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
He was saying is verbiage towards her and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, he got his panties all bunched of right, right?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
What did you think when you heard this? I mean,
this is this is pretty weird. I mean we're watching
Bud get the call. It's all recorded, this is happening
in real time.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a really weird story. And
it gets weirder from there even but the uh, it
just it had a very men in black sort of
vibe to it. And then when she added the fact
that one of them grabbed the other by the collar
and started slamming them against a wall, Like, what the
(18:13):
fuck is going on there?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Man? Right, that's not protocol for police officers. Right off
the bat, we can tell they're not police officers. Yeah,
and that ended up being true, I guess. Three weeks
after this visit, but himself received an audio cassette tape
from Richard. He was apologetic and confessed that they were
not police officers, that they were, in fact, federal agents
(18:38):
acting as security for the Secretary General of the UN.
What did you think about that, Mike.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That was a fun little twist. I did enjoy that.
And apparently, based on what they were saying, the Secretary
General also witnessed this event. He was in the car
with them, and they the three of them, witnessed it together.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, kind a very weird twist to a weird twist.
But Bud being an investigator in his partner and all this,
I forget the gentleman's name, forgive me. If you guys
watch it, you'll you'll see him there. But he said that,
but was a hell of an investigator, and Bud, being
a good investigator, got right to the idea of looking
at recent news footage of this un dude coming and
(19:27):
going from the UN building, And as crazy as that sounds,
sure enough Linda spotted both of them, pointed them out
in many videos of people escorting this un big big
guy back and forth.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So that I don't necessarily take as being confirmation of anything,
because if she was making and we'll get we'll get into,
you know, the the our opinions on the case. But
if she was making this up, it would be very
easy to just like, if you saw that guy, you're like, oh,
(20:01):
look his his bodyguards, because obviously he's gonna have a
you know, security detail. So you just point out two
assholes that are in more than one picture and that's them.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Right, right, not not difficult to do, so they they
you know. Of course, during this time, I don't know, Mike,
it seemed to me that they try to make it
look like this whole time she was making TV appearances
on Fucking Heraldo Rivera Donahue and all the other talk
(20:32):
shows at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Well at least Bud was right.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, So Bud was doing he was making the rounds
with various people that he was working with, and they
do show one and they I can't remember the dude's name,
but they this guy who was an abductee himself, and
the crowd's like laughing at him. He's getting all pissed
off about it, and like I felt bad for him
(20:58):
because it's got a like to have this horrific experience happen,
and then you have the uh, everyone that you're telling
your experience to just laughing at you like you're a
fucking joke, and like like he he was very earnest,
you know, like I I didn't. There wasn't anything about
(21:19):
him that gave me the vibe that he would be
like making shit up just for kicks and then getting
all indignant about it.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right, I agree with that the guy who you're talking about,
and he yeah, he did get upset. And it was
a very stark reminder of why people don't come forward
with this information and tell their stories. Yeah, it seems
that every show or every appearance that they made, no
matter what they were saying, I mean just people were
laughing and jeering while the host was explaining what Bud
(21:50):
Hopkins did. It was just it was it was And
I fell bad for them too, and I was just like, Wow,
that's why, that's why people don't come out with the stories.
I wouldn't after seeing how they were treated, right.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I mean I wouldn't even you know, I I have,
I have the platform to do it where people would
listen and be like, oh shit, he was abducted. And
I still wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I wouldn't tell any of you guys.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Right, I would have to agree after watching how these
people were treated. And I don't think if I mean
it was back in the eighties and nineties, I don't
think people would treat people who were telling the story.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, and I think they'd be looked at a bit
differently now, but even still, like I don't I think
a lot of people like we just in the past,
you know what eight years we've we've only just started
seeing UFOs being covered seriously on the news without having
the X Files theme play, right, right, and some like
(22:46):
smarmy asshole just be like aliens in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You know, like, fuck you asshole. Maybe there are.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, they just had another one of those hearings, didn't
they heard There was a bunch of nothing.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Just yeah, aliens in the ocean.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Is that what they talked about.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
They they talked about a craft that came out of
the ocean.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah. Yeah, they've said that a hundred times.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, so you know, aliens, aliens are real, man. Yeah,
They're just all over and that's just how it is now.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, just accept it. But even but even even still
with all this stuff going on, like people talking about
being abducted are still kind of, you know, if not
outright laughed at it, not exactly believed, right, So, but
but getting back to it, Yeah, at that time, Bud
Hopkins was doing a lot of different shows and and
(23:40):
Linda was like his his uh prized poodle so to speak,
you know, like she she was an attractive mother who
had this story and she she was really good on camera.
And kind of you know, had this character and even
even now in the in the documentary, like she's what
(24:01):
in her in her probably seventies now I don't exactly know,
but sixties, seventies and even now, like she's got it,
she's got a presence for the camera. And like there's
one there was one point where I rolled my eyes
and it was it was kind of cringe worthy, but
where she's talking about when she was a singer and
(24:24):
she's lip syncing her old song and like like she's
performing it in her living room, and it was you know.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Right, Yeah, that part was a little cringey. I think
that was a bad Yeah, a bad choice probably.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, that was a bad choice there, but right, but
it just goes to s like she's got she has
a stage presence.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, so I wouldn't they revealed that she had been
I mean, she released a record, she was signed to
a label, and like by the time she was fifteen.
I might add the music that they played that with
her singing was fucking fantastic. It was really good. But
when they said that, I kind of was like, ah,
I see, because she does have a presence about her,
(25:04):
even all the re enactments she did like too good
of a job, too good of a job. So she
does have a presence about there her And we'll get
into that later about what Carol has to say about that,
because she notices that too.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, but it makes sense that he would want to
bring her on these shows. You know, she's very well spoken,
she's a mother, She's got this story. There's witnesses, so
it makes it a very compelling case. And she doesn't
seem like she's bad shit. So she started being like
(25:40):
the face of Bud's research for a while. But I
did think it was weird how she reverted back to
covering herself like that. There was I think on Ricky
Lake she was on, but she stood. She stayed behind
a screen so you couldn't see who she was.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
She did.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
She did go on Ricky Lake and requests to stay
anonymous at this point in time because after Dan and
Richard said that they worked for the government, after she
learned that there might be possible government involvement, and she
kind of got scared a little bit, which is understandable. Yeah,
Dick and Dan linger in around. Who wants to deal
with those assholes?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah? I don't.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So after this once again Linda calls Bud in a panic,
and this time she says that she believed that she
she had just been abducted right then and there, and
that the aliens were back. So he has her come over.
They do more hypnosis and it's revealed that yes, the
aliens did come back, but now it seems that they're
(26:42):
abducting her whole family. Her son, Jimmy, and her husband
were all found by Linda standing in the living room
in the days with nosebleeds. So b interviews Johnny and
after the interview, he wholeheartedly believes that Johnny had been
abducted as well. Oh and at this point in time,
(27:03):
Carol is starting to doubt Linda's story. As you watched
this documentary, Mike, did this reoccurrence of an abduction raise
your eyebrow at all or where you're just like, holy shit,
I can't believe this happen.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Honestly, I started calling it into question when Dick and
Dan showed up. Okay, okay, that for me, that seem
because they did the the initial investigation for her abduction,
and you know, they had done all that, they had
done her whole thing, and you know, once that's done,
(27:40):
like what more is there? You've already you've done everything, Like,
unless you've got more shit going on, you know, we're
moving on to other cases. But then she had more
shit going on, and then she had more shit going on,
and then she had more shit going on. So it
kept it just kept being more and more and more,
(28:00):
and it just it it gets to a point where
where do you draw the line, Like all this wacky
shit is happening to just this person? Like you've interviewed
so many people, You've done this for so many people,
none of the shit has ever happened, and now you're
getting all this weird shit happening to this one witness
(28:21):
the face.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Of your research.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And that's that's where I started calling it. But but
then listening to the because again they recorded most of
the calls that Butt had with her listening to her
on the other end of the line, like I it's
it sounded very much like a performance.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, And Carol, Carol was getting that same feeling about
this is at this point, after this second abduction, This
is when Carol started to dealt with the story more
than more than believe it. But she also notices Bud's
emotional attachment to Linda, and they played some phone calls
(29:05):
between the two of them, and he is a little
bit dramatic, I think. But Carol said that this.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But Carol said that this set off alarm bells for her.
So she decided to go back and look at all
the hypnosis sessions that they had done over the years.
And she, like I said, she had been Bud's wife
at this time. She had been filming all their hypnosis sessions,
and she compared them to Linda's. And now there's a discrepancy. Mike,
(29:34):
we've talked about hypnosis before. What did you think about
and please explain this specific discrepancy that Carol noticed the
fact that.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
She she Carol felt that Linda was not in like
the deep state that people are in when they're under hypnosis,
and she noticed certain features of her face and the
way she was talking. It appeared more like somebody who
(30:06):
was faking being hypnotized than someone who was actually hypnotized.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Now did you agree with that statement? I mean, there
was a clear difference. I mean most of the people
that were hypnotized.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I mean, I mean, I'm not a I'm no expert,
so I can't speak with any sort of authority, but yeah,
it looked to me like someone with their eyes closed
telling a story, not someone recalling memories through hypnosis.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
What she notices for me, what stuck out the most
is the all these people that are under hypnosis, which
I mean, I agree with her statement that this is
how most of the time that people who are under
hypnosis act. They're kind of slow and searching for words
and having trouble recollect things, and she just goes back
and plays for you, you know, while she's pointing this out,
all these systems with Linda, And like you said, Mike,
(30:59):
that's a great to put it is that she was
just telling a story with her eyes closed. She was
very matter of fact, didn't hesitate on anything. It just
seemed very odd. And for me that's when I went, hey,
I don't think that lady's hypnotized at all.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, So we we get this story that her her
family one hundred percent believes. So that's that's where the
weird thing comes in. Like did she convince her entire
family to live this lie or did she Is she
(31:34):
capable of cult level brainwashing? Did she hypnotize them or
is something really happening, and she's just hamming.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It up, right, I mean, what do we say about
twenty three separate witnesses at this point?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
You know? I mean right? Right?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So, I mean, like we talked about the Ricky Lake appearance,
she wanted to stay anonymous because of the potential government involvement,
and it again through her paranoia, proves to be worthwhile
to notice because she calls Bud in a panic yet again.
This time she claims she had been kidnapped and held
(32:12):
against her will, but no.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
She literally she calls him during the kidnapping.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
During the kidnapping. Okay, well how did I miss this?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
They so, so there's they've got the call. She calls
him saying that she's being followed, and he's like all, like,
you know, being being dramatic with her, like like he
has been in previous calls. And then you just hear
her scream and you hear a man's voice. I can't
remember what he said, something like you're not you can't
(32:41):
get away from us or something. I can't remember exactly
what he said, but yeah, he abducts her.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Now, who is this person that that's abducted her? It
wasn't it Dick and Dan. Okay, Yeah, that's what I
wanted to make sure because in my notes I had
that written down, but then I didn't remember for sure.
So so yeah, and that's and she just, I mean,
happens to call Bud while it's happening, so we he's
recording it. So we have this abduction on tape, right.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, And and that's what I'm saying. It's like there's
always more, you know, it's continuing on. It's it's not
it just and it just gets like it keeps topping itself,
you know. It's not like it's not like she's she
just saw another UFO, like, oh my god, I saw
this weird lightnessuse. No, she's being abducted by federal agents
(33:34):
now in public.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, allegedly, so uh, I mean back to back to
the waiting arms of Bud. She goes, and in my
notes here, Mike, I have.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
The wrath of Carol.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
This is when Carol says, that's that's well well said,
the wrath of Carol.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Indeed, Yeah, she she said this was complete bullshit and
she was not gonna buy this anymore. And she was
watching Bud become more invested into Linda and her story.
At this point in time, there was movie deals that
were made, Bud's new book on this case was going
to come out. So what does Carol do? She launches
(34:14):
a full investigation of her own into this investigation of
Linda's story.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And this, I mean, yeah, she's investigating the investigation.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Now right right, This is where I was shocked. This
shocked me for me. Bud's always been seen as legit.
Bud's Bud fucking Hopkins, man. I mean, he's fucking the
hypnotherapy guy. Like I said at the beginning, as well
as Michael. We're both familiar with his work, maybe not
every little bit of it, but we know who he is.
(34:45):
But BOYD did Carol ruin that for me? After interviewing
the twenty three witnesses, we found that most of them, man,
should not have been ever considered as witnesses. There was
a lot of them that saw nothing. There was a
lady who saw a light outside but didn't bother looking
at it. There was even one of their witnesses when
Linda was doing this investigation that she.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Found that sounded a lot like Linda. So when she
press would I wouldn't say.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
A lot, I would say exactly like Linda, right when
she played almost like Linda called and said, hey, I
saw a UFO abduct somebody and there was a power
outage also exactly, and then they couldn't find this person. Yes,
this was the only witness they couldn't track down, who
was like always in the shower or taking a dump
(35:34):
or something.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
They when when Carol brought this information to Bud one,
he didn't like it very much at all, but he said,
she told him trying to track this witness down, this
one that sounds like Linda, and they have it on
film when he calls them and oh, she's already gone
to bed or she's left for work early. So this
person they couldn't get a hold of, which I found
extremely suspicious. And furthermore, she uh. This whole time, they
(36:02):
were getting letters, more and more letters and tapes from
Richard and Dan. Some of these letters we had written
parts of them on like whe who they're addressed to,
And Carol had a handwriting expert take a look at
these these letters. And what ended up happening is that
they proved that one of the letters in some of
(36:25):
these letters that were sent they matched Linda's handwriting and
they also proved that one of the signatures that's supposed
to be this dude from the un was a copy
from a previous signature, and he talked about how people
do not sign their signature the same way twice and
it's just an exact match.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
And so it.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Proves that these letters were being faked. And she also,
you know, made a good point that she caught Bud
just straight up ignoring evidence that would go against this case,
and that was one of the major things for her,
that he was just ignoring the fact that these witnesses
(37:08):
basically had fucking nothing to say, that he was just
using them as a number. Cool they came forward and
she decided to write a big old report on this
and publish it. And like you said, Mike, maybe why
we don't hear about this this case, I don't go
to like I don't believe shit skeptic homie dot com,
(37:32):
but I don't think this would be promoted. And a
lot of the things that we read about Bud Hopkins,
but this effectively just destroyed his career. The movie deal
was canceled, his book didn't come out, you know, anytime
soon after that, and it led to their no the
book came out, it wasn't republished.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, the publisher said they weren't going to republish it.
So I'd imagine probably now if you're looking for that book,
it's probably going to be very expensive, right.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
So for me, I mean, like you said, it doesn't
have to be true that these dudes that Linda pointed
out were these actually dudes.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
That was the first questionable thing.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
But there's a part of me that says, I mean,
those letters were faked, but maybe they weren't faked by Linda.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Did you think that at all?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
But why was Linda's handwriting on the return envelope?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think that if there's somebody trying to fuck with him,
especially at a federal government level, that they can do
that quite easily.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Their job is to muddy the waters.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Well, I mean, this is probably not going to come
as a surprise to any of our longtime listeners, but
I do not buy Linda Napolitano's story, and even less
now that the documentary has come out. So, since the
documentary has come out, Carol Rainey has passed away, She's
(39:05):
no longer with us. But Linda is saying that Rainy
she was doing all of this because she was an embittered,
alcoholic ex wife who just wanted revenge against Bud and
that's the reason. But Linda is suing Netflix because she's
(39:30):
stating that the documentary defames her and it paints her
in an unflattering light. And she said she agreed to
have her story told by Netflix after she was promised
that there would only be one interview with Rainie that
was used and that she would be allowed to tell
(39:51):
the true story of her abduction and that's the way
it would be presented.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Hmmm, I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, So she is now suing them for putting this
out and kind of shining a light on maybe the
evidence that she is a fraud. But the one thing,
the one thing that still gets me is her son
still like he didn't want his face revealed, so they
(40:21):
they did interview him, but they concealed his face, but
he talked about it and he said it was very
real and what she's saying happened. So again, if if
either he has just been conditioned to lie about this
so much that now he believes the lie. This is
(40:45):
part of his life now. But he's like he said,
he's had to he's had to undergo therapy numerous times
as a result of this. He basically has PTSD because
of what he experienced, and that's I mean, you're not
gonna have PTSD for nothing. So something caused that that
(41:06):
he relates to this story.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Right when they when they brought him out, he said,
when he when he didn't want to show his face,
I said out loud to myself and says, man, this
experience fucked him up a little bit. And one of
the first things he says is that this whole experience fucked.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Me up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And he talked about how he's in therapy, and I mean,
if he's going through therapy, I mean he's older now,
he's he has.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Been going through therapy.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
With that being the case, I think I think somebody
would have been able to detect some type of brainwashing.
I think somebody would have worked out, you know, going
back through the memories and maybe remembering his mother telling him,
you know, you've got to say this. We'll get a
bigger apartment if they if you say this, you'll get
fucking you know, whatever you want if you say this.
(41:59):
That I think that would have come up and he
was very honest about how it was something that happened
that it fucking sucked. It wasn't fucking cool. He sounded
like a lot of he sounded like a lot of abductees.
He sounded like some people that we've talked to about
being abducted, and it just wasn't a cool fucking thing
(42:19):
at all. And he didn't know what to fucking tell you.
But that what his mother said is what's happened. So
now at the end, as I watched this documentary, I
watched the first episode and I was like, whoa dude,
why haven't we heard about this? And you're like, just wait.
And the second episode came on. I was like, bro,
there's twenty three fucking witnesses and you're like just wait.
(42:42):
And then the third episode, I was like, oh man,
this thing's probably all bullshit. What do you think about
the things that this case presents that just aren't bullshit?
I mean, there's there's not twenty three witnesses that saw
into fly out of her window, but there is still
I think three or four people who said that they
saw her. They described that what she was wearing when
(43:06):
it happened. Her son sticking to his story like that
her husband, they talked to him and he says, all
this happened. I know that Linda had away with a camera,
the pictures that she showed of who she was singing
to when she was fifteen years old. I mean it
was like John fucking Wayne. I mean, she was k
(43:27):
new like Lyzaman Nelly and like crazy shit. She was
rather successful, and she did give that up to be
a mom. But I don't think anybody in their right
mind thinks they're gonna get a fucking record deal by
telling a story about aliens taking them. I don't think
she thinks that at all. I think that they start
(43:47):
the documentary with Linda saying, you know, like what you said,
you're a fucking alcoholic, bitter, fucking jealous ex wife. And
I mean Carol just clearly puts that across, clearly feels
that way. She very much seems like a scorned woman
right off the bat. She made a couple of statements
that maybe just like go oh wow, okay, And it's
(44:10):
not like an attitude from somebody that I'm I'm unfamiliar with.
I've seen many people, both men and women, have this
fucking attitude about somebody that their significant other had to.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Work with or deal with.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
But she said, uh, Linda was quote, Linda was the
queen bee because she became the center of attention. I'm sorry, dude,
who else is going to be the center of attention
during a fucking UFO abduction case? Probably the abductee, you know.
And then she kept kept saying how how Linda always
had to make sure her hair look nice when there's
(44:43):
a camera around. I'm every woman I know would would
do the same thing. That doesn't surprise me, that doesn't
seem like a conceited type thing or like trying to
play it up to the camera. I think that, uh,
there's some holes in Linda's story, or at least some
parts that are surrounding her story. But I think Carol
(45:03):
very much seemed vindictive and upset that Bud took us
shining to Linda in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's really easy to see
that side of it, you know, But it's also there's
just there's weird things on both sides really, you know,
like the I I don't think that the events happened
the way that they are reported to have happened. You know,
(45:33):
the silly men and black stuff, the I don't even
think the abduction happened. My My main question is why
her son feels like it happened.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
What do you what do you say? I mean, in
both sides, both directions, there's undeniable evidence. In both directions,
there's still there's you know, there's letters where faked. I
just don't buy Linda being abduct and then recording the
whole fucking thing. I just don't buy that. But then
there are there were witnesses that even Carol went back
(46:07):
and talked to that said no, we watched it happen.
There's just an irrefutable evidence in both directions.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, to me, there's more evidence that fuckery is afoot
than there is truth to the claims they The fact
that there's so many witnesses is compelling, But how out
of the realm of possibility is it that it's actually
(46:39):
just a handful of people calling and changing their voices
and reporting the same or similar thing. You know, maybe
she had some people in on it, and and maybe
now that this documentary is out, maybe will start getting
people coming out and being like, yeah, that I was
Linda's friend and we cooked this up.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Overwine one night. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
You know, and then you know, I got my brother
to do it and my husband and then I called
in and we made it a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
But maybe not.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
And even if we do, it's gonna be like the
guy who claimed to be Bigfoot.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
You'll have people that are like, well, that's case closes.
I have other people being like, let's get this guy's
a fucking liar.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
The documentary left me with a feeling A question I
had for you. Watching the hypnosis tapes from the other people,
the other abductees, not just Linda's but mostly the other people's,
and hearing Linda's story and me believing part of it,
I walked away with two questions for you. Do you
(47:47):
think that Budd and Linda were working together to just
straight up fake a fucking story.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
See. I don't want to think that of Bud. I
really don't. And and based on everything else that people
say about Bud, I don't think that's necessarily the case.
But I do think that once he got invested in
this case, that he turned a blind eye because I
(48:14):
think he genuinely thought Linda was getting upset about things.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Because of that he lost I mean, I think that
Carol's got a point and that I do think, and
at least in regard to Linda, he lost his objectivity
and he started taking everything that she said at face value.
So when Linda was getting the attention from him and
(48:40):
she called to say she was just abducted, and he
rushed over at like fucking two in the morning or whatever,
and then she's on the phone with him when she
gets kidnapped by federal agents, and I don't know, it's
all too convenient.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Right, yeah, little just how it kept unfolding and twisting.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
I was like, oh my god. But the other, the other,
the other thing I.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Was left wondering is after, like I said, listening to
those other abductees that during their hypnosis and just watching
that on everything you know, from sightings to unsolved mysteries
when we're kids to now watching that stuff. Having all
this time to think about that stuff and listen to
what they're saying and they're reporting and what abductees to
say when they go through hypnosis, do you think there's
(49:27):
a chance that we're all just getting fucking abducted and
there's just a handful of us that have adverse reaction
to however they do. It's whatever method they use to
make us forget. No, no, I do not.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
And I'm still kind of of the mind that it's
humans behind the whole abduction thing. Mm hmm. And it's
just a usage usage of hypnosis and probably some sort
of drug concoction too, uh make make the uh, make
(50:03):
the people believe that they've been abducted.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yep, that is a possibility. I mean, that's it's not
a possibility. There's we've talked about cases to where that
is the case.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, it's it's the uh military abductions.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
Yeah, but flying them out of window though, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I mean, well, yeah, I mean that's that's assuming that
what that her story is true, which I'm not assuming
that for a second. I'm assuming quite the opposite.
Speaker 3 (50:34):
I just I want to know.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
The the stuff that supports the story. There's got to
be a reason behind it. The witnesses, there needs to
be a reason behind it. Her son thinking he was
abducted and believing everything about her story, there's got to
be a reason for it.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, there has to be. Well, you guys watched the
documentary while it's available. If those fucking people are gonna
get sued.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
She Yeah, yeah, that's that's the world we live in.
But again it's it just kind of that supports the
idea that she wants to keep the attention on her, right,
you know, like, oh, I got a documentary about me.
(51:19):
Now once the documentary is over, now I can sue,
and that's gonna keep my name active.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
Right. I would be like, I was in your favor,
your goofball. Why are you suing these people? Yeah? So,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Maybe maybe she is, uh, maybe she's just crazier than
we think she is. Or maybe she does a lot
of acid and maybe she gave some acid to her son,
and that's.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
I don't know. Will you guys watch it, let us
know what you think.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
And yeah, you're not even safe on the twelve floor, motherfuckers.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, they're coming for you.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
They're gonna get you.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Thank you for listening to The What Cast. You can
find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, iTunes, on YouTube. Enjoy
the podcast, get yourself a what Cast T shirt or
a stick or pack. Who was that dude on that
one episode? Try the links in homies page. All this
and more can be found at www dot thewcasters dot com.
(52:23):
Thanks again for listening and have a great week and.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Set. But I don't have to do to P
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