The What Cast #489 - Dr. Laura Turner Part 2: Into The Fringe

Well we at long last got to out 2nd episode of Dr. Karla Turner, legendary Alien Abduction researcher. This episode he breaks down the events from her first book, Into The Fringe. Mike read it and lets just say, he was not too happy about it. Is there more to Dr. Turners story than alien abduction? Come get shadow banned with us as we go over what she really uncovered...

https://youtu.be/4Cbxhk2lhdc?si=k5wgsfsMObHWZU2E

https://open.spotify.com/show/6kKs4pmpW49q65lmn96D3a

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's it's time for our long awaited sequel to our
doctor Turner, Doctor Carla Turner, and Mike has read her
first book, Into the Fringe. Yeah, right, So this is
the first of three of her books. We're going to

(00:44):
touch on all of them, some briefly, some in more
detail than others, and see if there's enough to cover
them all individually, because maybe maybe things have changed after
Mike has read this book. But uh, I don't know what.
We'll get into it, and we'll get into what we
were talking about before, Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
But the sad thing is, in my old age, my
brain is getting more and more fucked and I, honestly
do I have no recollection of covering her in a
past episode. And I know we have because people have
commented on it, asking us to do a sequel and

(01:23):
follow up on it and read the books, but I
don't remember covering that at all the first time. And
we actually bought the book and I the first book,
Into the Fringe, and I have been putting off reading
it for like I've had it sitting on my shelf
for probably over a year now, and I've been putting

(01:45):
it off, putting it off, and people are still asking
for it, so Matteo talked me into pulling it off
the shelf. I don't know why Ben has it, Like,
I don't have any bias against it, although I might
have a bias against future books now that I've read
the first one. But the first one I had nothing

(02:05):
to sway me one way or the other. And I
and even after reading the book, I still have no
recollection of ever covering this on the show. So it
may have been an alternate reality version of me that
was doing that episode at that point in time. I
honestly don't know, but I have no recollection of it. However,
I did read the first book, and I'm going into

(02:28):
this episode with my only knowledge of Carla Turner being
that being what she wrote about in her first book,
and the fact that she died under allegedly mysterious circumstances
or maybe not mysterious but dubious circumstances. I don't know

(02:49):
how you'd want to word that.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
See, I remember walking away from covering her thinking she
was one of my new heroes, and I still feel
that way. And it's because of not her strange death
or anything, but the stance that she took towards the
end of her life in what she was writing about,
and I think it matches up with stuff I think

(03:11):
you would be into, So I'll refresh your memory and stuff. Well,
like I said, we're going to touch on into the
fringe and we'll cover her passing a little bit and
then talk about her other books and see, I mean,
if you guys want us to cover those in more depth,
we'll try to. One thing to say about doing research
on her. One thing I remember about covering her stuff

(03:34):
the first time, it was hard to find any actual
information on her to do any real digging. There's a
lot of websites that cover her, like a Wikipedia style
page where it's very brief, but it was hard to
cover her. But her books were taken out of print,
funny enough, almost immediately after her passing, and they were rare,

(03:55):
so most of the time was where can you get
her books? But now they've been put back into print,
so looking up her stuff is just a bunch of
where to get her books or about her books, But
stuff about her is still just as scarce. But I
did find some stuff that was interesting that shed a
little bit of light on her as a person. Stuff,
and we'll get into that too, but I'm interested in

(04:17):
hearing what you have to say about this book and
stuff like that, because it's still hard to find information
on her.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well. To me, after reading this book, it sounded like
someone who was a fan of a lot of New
Age beliefs and Bud Hopkins work, and they took those
two things and wrote some fan fiction. That's to me,

(04:46):
that's what it seemed like, like, somebody writing a story
about a family plagued by aliens, and everyone that they
have ever come into contact with is also plagued by aliens,
and anyone they will in the future into contact with
are also plagued by aliens, and maybe some people are aliens.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
I will have to admit. I will have to admit
right off the bat when I got the book and
I started reading it, and I think subconsciously I sent
it to you because it kind of read like that.
It kind of read like a story. It kind of
read thanks.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I love with that. In mind reading, I'm like, oh,
you know what, this sounds like fan fiction. I'll send
it to Mike and let him fucking like. To be
completely honest, I've never wanted to finish a book more
in my life.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
I could not like.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
This book was oh God, like I would sometimes I
would have to take a day or two off just
because I was like, I can't, I can't deal with
this book right now. It just got to the point
where like every single chapter, I'm rolling my as like, oh,
here we go again, and fucking let me guess. You
meet somebody new and they have some masked alien encounters

(05:59):
that they weren't aware of until they came into contact
with you, and now they know right right.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
See. I think subconsciously I didn't want my vision of
her destroyed by that type of writing. And then like
again looking back into her stuff, her doctorate was in
English literature, so yes, I guess.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's that's another thing. And her interest in this allegedly
came from an assignment that she gave her students, telling
them to write about UFO's Bigfoot or the Lockness Monster,
and in reading their papers, that apparently is what ignited
her interest in UFOs, only to find out that her

(06:39):
and her husband have been abducted by UFOs for likeever,
it it seems very uh l Ron Hubbard to me.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
From what I remember, it was not her who found
out that they were abductees. It was her husband going
to hit you know what she was too? Yes, yes,
and I believe their child as well.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Right, So their child and his friend and his friend's
parents and his friend's ex girlfriend and some stranger that
she meets, and then some alien visits the kid who
then later becomes her friend, who is actually not an
alien but someone who is abducted, but for some reason
shows up when the kid is abduct I don't know.

(07:25):
It's fucking stupid.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Me off. So so let's let's get into it, because yeah,
what I know of her, it's it's very not stupid
and wouldn't piss me off.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
No, it's so stupid and I and I hate this
book so much and and I could not wait for
it to be over. But so, so it starts out,
like I said, she gives an assignment to to her
students and they have to write about either lackiness, monster, UFOs,

(07:58):
or big and she said she didn't really she was
never really into the subject, which is something that she
says so many times. And it gets to be it
gets to the point where it's like it's a the
Lady doth protest too much type situation, Like I can't
tell you the amount of time. She's like, if this
had been a year ago, I would have said you're crazy,

(08:21):
and this never would have happened. But now, and like
almost any time anything happened, she has to make reference
to the fact that she never believed in this stuff.
But it just gets to the point where like you're
saying this way too much, like you are trying to
convince yourself that you didn't believe this before and that
this is all brand new stuff that's happening. Oh my god,

(08:44):
I had no idea. But she said after reading these
these papers that she was introduced to a bunch of
cases that she had never heard of. And I believe
she the first book she read was Contact Whitley Streeber's
book or Communion, not Contact Communion, and that book was

(09:08):
allegedly her first I guess encounter with the alien abduction scenario.
And then her and her husband, well her husband specifically
started displaying signs of heavy stress and she's like, well,
it can't be just that he's stressed at work and
maybe isn't sleeping right. There's got to be more to it.

(09:32):
So she said her therapist that she goes to had
taught her a relaxation method, and she had done it,
I think she said, twice with her therapist. So because
she had done it twice with a therapist, she was
an expert on how to induce states of relaxation. So

(09:53):
she used those same tactics on her husband, which not
only relaxed him but apparently put him into uh regressive
hypnosis where he was able to recall an encounter that
he had with the UFO, and then this led them.
She she did this with him a few times because

(10:14):
you know, she's she's an expert on doing it now,
so she was able to get him to regress a
few different times and unlocked a bunch of his previously
forgotten abduction experiences. And then from that point on, it's
like she she unlocked this this secret, and all of
a sudden, as soon as she did this, it started

(10:36):
impacting every single person that she's ever met ever, and
every single person that she's ever met ever, and not
only started having weird alien encounters but also had had
them like since childhood. And it got to it there
were just like so many ridiculous connections that she would make,

(10:58):
Like one time, so so her son's friend that he
was living with, he had been really affected by constant
abductions apparently, but he would never remember them until he
would talk to Carla and she would like walk him

(11:18):
through it. And then he started going through hypnotic regression
with this other researcher, Barbara, who was a hypnotherapist and
specializes in hypnotic regression. But he starts going through all
these regression sessions and starts unlocking all these memories. And

(11:40):
there's one point where he calls his ex girlfriend and
starts asking her questions about a date that she had
gone on that night, and you later find out that
in the book, you find out that he had had
this weird encounter where he knew what she was doing somehow,

(12:00):
even though he wasn't there, So he called her to
ask about it. But for some reason, his ex girlfriend,
who thought that this call was weird and was like,
why is he called rather than like call his parents
or even his best friend. For some reason, she calls
fucking doctor Carla Turner, who, for whatever reason, like it

(12:21):
doesn't make sense, why would why would somebody's ex girlfriend
call the mother of your ex boyfriend's friend, Like it's
so stupid.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, she's she's clearly a researcher in this subject.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, but she was calling her not to talk about UFO.
She was calling her because she thought he was acting weird,
and at this point he hadn't told anybody his secret
about this other than doctor Turner. So there's really it
would be like it would be like me calling up
my ex's friend's mom because my ex was act weird, Like,

(13:01):
oh my god, she was acting so weird and she
was saying all this weird shit and grilling me about
my date that I went on that night, Like isn't
that weird? Why the fuck would you call someone so
far removed it that. Honestly, that's one of the details
that pissed me off the most. I'm like, you're clearly
full of shit, like that didn't happen. Why don't you

(13:22):
just say it was related to you and we'll go
from there. Like just so dumb. But that's like how
the book went on, and it was just constant her
talking about how basically every day her and her husband
would wake up with these scratches, or wake up with

(13:43):
missing time, or have these fragments of strange memories, and
then talking about how her son and his girlfriend were
having similar experiences, and her son's friend was having similar experiences,
and then finally they talked son's friend into telling his
parents about it, and his parents were accepting about it,

(14:06):
but they didn't they themselves didn't have any encounters. But
then they tell her they told doctor Turner about some
you know, just slightly weird experience that she's like, well,
that's clearly a and she didn't really get into their
experiences because they didn't really want to delve into it,

(14:27):
but she said that they would give her the inclination
that they themselves had experienced it, they just weren't aware
of it. And then one time she's talking to her
son's girlfriend, and her son's girlfriend's like, yeah, I never
had anything weird happen to me except for the time
there was that gray monkey sitting outside my window that

(14:47):
was kind of weird. But nothing else except for that
other time when this happened. But nothing else except for
that other time when some guy came to my house
and was asking about UFOs that was kind of like
that was literally a part in the book where she's
talking about this girl saying three times nothing weird happened
except this happened. And then she's like, did anything else happen? No,

(15:10):
except for this, like just continued on and I'm like,
are you by the third time it was just a
I figured it was a joke, and I kind of
fun humor in it, But I don't think it was
a joke.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Okay, would you say that her writing style is not
really helping?

Speaker 2 (15:27):
No, because the editing was also shit too, which is
another grape that I've got, because it was like she
edited it herself. Maybe I don't know if there was
an actual editor, because there were so many, so many
typos or wrong words used, or something that should have

(15:49):
been pluralized that wasn't, or vice versa, and that was
that got to me too. I'm like, how legit can
this be if this wasn't even fucking and edited?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Very interesting, Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
To me, like the whole time, it was it was
like she I I got the impression that that she
wanted to be like Bud Hopkins and like she wanted
like she she mentions going to see him at one point,
and then she was invited to dinner with him and

(16:27):
then Barbara Bartholic that's right. Yeah, so she's been she
had a lot of she did a lot of work
with Barbara Bartholic, and she's the Barbara's the one that
primarily did the actual regression. Like I guess, Carlo wasn't

(16:48):
a complete pro because she could only get her husband
to go back so far, and then she had Barbara
come in to unlock all the doors and get the
full experience out. But to me, it seems like if
in fact what she says is true, where she had

(17:08):
no interest in UFOs until she signed this report to
her students, sounds to me like maybe she caught the
bug when she was reading the report and then she
read communion and then this something weird happened with her husband,
so she's like, you know what, maybe that was from
an alien, like I think initially it was. He had

(17:32):
it caught on his leg, and then when she but
he has no memory of it. So she's like, well,
while we're distressing you, let's see what happened. So she
puts him in this relaxed, this meditative state, I guess,
which somehow hypnotically regressed him to when he got this cut,

(17:54):
and he recalled seeing this weird silver ball floating in
the sky, and he recalls not being afraid of it
and more curious about it, and then he had missing
time and this abduction experience, but Barbara was able to
get him deeper and get more information. So I wonder

(18:18):
if when she read Communion and everything, if when she
did that initial relaxation session, if maybe whether it was
on purpose or otherwise, maybe she inserted some information in
there or gave maybe not inserted information, but kind of

(18:38):
influenced some memories that weren't there, and then when he
went into hypnotic regression, he latched onto those and created
this whole scenario. And then from there she just because
now her husband's doing it, So maybe she was able

(18:59):
to kind of extra appelate that across her family, or
maybe she was just outright lying about her family. I
don't know. To me, a lot of it seems like
she just took information that's out there already, of experience
that other people have had and created her own story.

(19:20):
Because I mean, in her story, not only has her
and everyone that she's ever known ever been abducted by aliens,
but they've been abducted by multiple different species of aliens,
and they've been abducted by military probably as well. And

(19:40):
there was one part I had to I had to
write it down because I was like, man, you are
fucking reaching here, lady. But she takes this dream. I
want to see if if it's quick enough that I
can read it all right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna
just read this recollection to you. And while I'm reading this,

(20:05):
I want you all to keep in mind that this
was a dream that somebody had. So her husband said,
tells her about this weird dream. Hehead, So she relates
the dream and she provides quotes. So he says, I
heard something that sounded like a helicopter, and I thought

(20:28):
it was coming from a cloud. And just as a
cloud got almost directly over me, I looked up to
watch what I thought would be a helicopter come out
of the cloud. But instead of a helicopter, it was
a late model white pickup truck, and it came flying
out of a portal which opened in the cloud. The
truck flew downward steadily, still sounding like a helicopter, but

(20:49):
I don't remember it landing. The next thing I remember
was seeing copies of myself trailing off into the distance,
like I was seeing myself move through time, with images
being left in place instead of dissipating and then he
talks about finding himself falling down a narrow tunnel into
an underground area, and then he was in a saloon

(21:13):
where reminiscent of old Western settings from movies and television,
and all that he could recall was sitting at a
table in a saloon with his son and one of
his close friends and wondering if they were going to
start playing poker. And that was the dream, and she
relates that to him being abducted. Where to me, that

(21:33):
sounds like a perfect description of some fucking crazy dream.
That's that you had, Like how many times have you
had a dream? And like you turn around and all
of a sudden you are in a completely different place
than where you were dreaming. But it's just normal because
that's part of the dream, you know, or turn your
you turn into something else or someone else, and now

(21:55):
you're like, hey, or someone else will turn into a
different person in your dream, but it's the same person
that's been in your dream the whole time. They're just
a different I don't know. She when I got to that,
I'm like, you're fucking grasping at straws here, Like the
dude had a weird dream. Not everything is related to aliens,
like you're you're the George Suklos of fucking alien abductions.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
How did she relate this dream to being abducted by aliens?

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Because she's she thought it was a U screen memory.
And then later in a regression, he goes over that
that dream again and it takes on this whole new
thing where it was actually an old military base in
the side of a mountain, and there was a general

(22:45):
there and he was asked. The general kept asking him
to tell him what he knows about aliens and was
getting pissed off at him because he wouldn't tell him
about aliens. And apparently in this underground base was an
old one Western saloon with a bunch of people sitting around.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Hmmm.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
So I don't know make of that what you will?
I guess in that in that sense it ties into
the my lab stuff, But the I don't, I don't know.
Just a fucking truck flying out of the sky sounding
like a helicopter. That to me sounds like something from
a fucking dream, you know, Like where where? How does

(23:28):
that exist? In a like? I know screen memories are
a thing, like the owls and all that, but that
that just seems so fucking absurd that it couldn't come
from anywhere but a dream unless the fucking military has
Harry Potter technology where they've got flying cars.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Now I don't know, right.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
But there, I mean, there were some there were some
stories that she told that were genuinely creepy, like if
they were just if I just read like on its own,
you know, it'd be fucking creepy. Like. There was a
part with her son and his girlfriend. They had gone
out with their friend, the other kid or the other

(24:13):
guy who had been having the intense abduction experiences. They
went to a bar one night and they were heading
back to the house that they shared, and her son
and his girlfriend got there before their friend, and the
son said both of both his son, her son and

(24:38):
his girlfriend had weird experiences, but they were separate going
on at the same time. So to her, she said
that he left and was replaced by something else that
looked like him, and she could see this. It It

(25:00):
looked like a screen that they had put up, like
a projection screen, but the screen was showing whatever would
have been behind the screen, So they were using this
screen to hide behind whatever they were. This screen they
were holding up made it look like whatever she was
looking at was in the back was actually the background

(25:21):
rather than alien standing in front of her, and they
used the screen to take him away and replace him
with a replicant that looked just like him, and then
the replicant kept trying to get her to go into
the backyard and see the satellite dish. And I guess
the neighbor had a satellite dish. But Carlo's son recalls

(25:44):
it that he saw this satellite dish, but it looked
like it was upside down, and he thought and he
was worried that it was going to break, and he
kept looking at it and looking at it and wanted
to wanted to bring his girlfriend to see it, but
his girlfriend wouldn't come. And then there was a period

(26:04):
in time where he couldn't see his girlfriend anymore. And
then she said that there was a period of time
where she couldn't see him anymore. So they've got like
this weird thing where they both just kind of disappear
from each other, but they're both still there. And then
she has a memory of seeing this shadowy figure behind
a tree that seemed to be watching them, and then

(26:28):
their friend pulled in the driveway and everything went back
to normal as soon as he pulled back in. And
like that story creep was was really fucking creepy. Like
if if I had read that on its own, we
could have done like a quick in the weird and
about it and it would have been like, Wow, that's
a really fucking creepy encounter. But it's not. I guess

(26:50):
when you put it in the context of, you know,
the rest of the book, it just seems like her
making shit up, you know, like just I don't. I
can't explain it, like really, I guess, because you're gonna
have people that are like, well, Carla Turner was a
well respected researcher, and she's done work in this and

(27:11):
this and this, but even this, this Barbara Bartholic person
that that she's worked with, she's heavily criticized as well,
and she's there's people that that highly respect her, but
then there's a lot of people that are highly critical
of her because she's one of those new age crystal

(27:31):
Humper type people and and it's tying that into the
the UFO experience and like, I don't I don't think
she's gone full Steven Greer where we can meditate and
make contact with them. But there's a lot of of

(27:52):
people that are very critical of her as well. I
would say more critical of her than than they're of
Bud Hopkins, you know, so generally speaking, Bud Hopkins is
pretty well regarded. I know that recent documentary on Netflix
kind of starts to pain them in a bit of
a questionable light, But that aside, he's got a pretty

(28:16):
decent track record. But I don't know everything here. Just
seems like she caught the UFO bug and just wanted
to be in on the game. And what better way
to get in on it than to create your own
experiences and then use those experiences to make contacts and
then your name becomes relevant in the UFO field. So

(28:39):
that's what I got out of the first book, And
I would like to end my rant with the last
paragraph of the book. Aliens are invading our lives in
a very real, very threatening manner. They are here. They
are doing strange things to our our bodies and our minds.

(29:02):
These actions may be for humanity's benefit or the alien's
own self serving ends, and if we don't learn the
purpose of their intrusions, we will never be more than
their helpless victims. So that's that is the positive note
that she ends her first book with. And based on

(29:24):
the first book, I am led to believe that literally
every single person that ever existed, ever has been abducted
by aliens. That includes you, Matteo, that includes me, That
includes every single one of you that are listening to this.
Not only every single one of you listening to this,
but every single person that you've ever met, and every

(29:44):
single person they've ever met, and on and on and
on throughout human history and you know, past, present, future,
we're all victims of alien abductions and just deal with it. Okay,
So that's my takeaway.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
So this, this first book of hers, this is supposed
to be about her family's experience with this abduction, uncovering
that they had been abducted and all that shit.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Right right, yeah, her basically her uh baptism into UFO culture,
I guess, right, right right, And then her experiences have
It's just to me, it just all seems very convenient,
you know, like like they've they've never had any experiences.

(30:33):
All of a sudden, she has this report that she
gives her kids, and then she expertly hypnotizes her husband
into having a regression experience, and then from there we're
off and running. It's fucking UFOs and poking and scratching
and prodding and everything forever from that point on, Like,

(30:56):
where was this before?

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Isn't that how? It's usually such for all these people
who say they're abducted. It usually takes some type of
hypnotic regression and is commonly done by people they know
until they get to a professional.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, when it's individuals usually, but there's usually something that
prompts it. This was literally and they were experiencing things
outside of regression too, but they never experienced anything up
until she assigned this fucking report, and all of a sudden,
all these memories came flooding back, and they're seeing UFOs

(31:31):
in real time, and meeting with people that are maybe
aliens but also claiming to be abductees, and showing up
in other people's abduction experiences, but then acting all weird
about it, like I don't it just it was all
very convenient, Like she gets a UFO paper and all

(31:54):
of a sudden she's like, oh my god, now all
these UFOs are ufoing me. I'm being UFO left and
right right. That's the proper term UFO.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
See. To me, that just sounds like a lot of
these cases of people who find out they've been abducted.
This sounds like every person that's been on Unsolved Mysteries
or anything like that. It just sounds it usually starts
with something that triggers a memory, and this sounds like
how it happened for Travis Walton, And to a degree,
this sounds like how it happened to Betty and Barney Hill.

(32:27):
You know that something triggers some type of memory and
then it's investigated, and that it usually hypnosis. This is
the tool that they use to build the story of
what happened. I will say that this book isn't, like
you mentioned, how she's well regarded and stuff like that
and seen as a great researcher. This book isn't what

(32:48):
gave her those those regards. It was the second book
that did. This was just her telling of the story.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, And I think, like I said, I think this
book was used to get her foot in the door
with people that are influential in the UFO field. And
she mentions going to all these like UFO talks and stuff,
and she did have dinner with Bud Hopkins after one
of these events. So like I think that she was,

(33:18):
she was out there networking in the UFO community, trying
to get her ins and and it's it would be
one thing if if there was a regression experience that
tied her husband into it and then she found out,
you know that she had her own experience with her husband,
and you know, they they found it out through regression

(33:39):
and that was it. But the the problem that I
have is they've had zero experiences, but they unlocked all
these past experiences through regression, and then all of a
sudden things start happening in real time where they don't
need hypnotic regression, Like, hey, there's a UFO coming out
of the sky right now heading it's heading right for us.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well, don't you think that that if once you're aware
of something like that and whatever whatever means that's used
to make you forget an experience like that, is not
going to be as effective after you're able to basically
crack that code.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
No, because they were still having all these experiences where
they couldn't remember anything, so it was still effective, and
then they would unlock these memories and they'd be like, oh,
today we were taken by reptilians, and last week we
were taken by the grays. My son said that he
was taken by a mantis at one point, and my husband,

(34:37):
when he was a kid, was raped by a human
looking alien. Legitimately happened in the book. He was raped
by a human looking alien when he was a kid.
H So. And then someone else had an experience with
an alien female that looked like some sort of weird
alien female who tried to seduce him. But he was like,

(35:00):
now you look like an alien female, and then she
she left.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
You look a little alien.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
It's like, come back looking like, you know, a human woman.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Please there, we could get down.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, unless you're what's his name, what's who's the who's
the loving Saucers guy?

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Oh, David Huggins.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
David Huggins, Yeah, he he loves those alien brods.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Oh man. So, like I said, like looking up her
second book, and this is where I think it'll start
to maybe sway you another way. This book is her
second book, and it's called Taken, but that's not the
that's the short title. It's called Taken Inside the Alien
Abduction Agenda.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Oh shit, yes, an agenda now, guys, yes, sir and
and I think it'll. Like I said, we've all been
abducted at all times, always like you're you're being abducted
right now while you're listening to this.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Maybe not to that degree, but it might, it might
end up that way. But this, Uh, I don't know
if i'd said this before, Mike, before we recorded, but
all her books were out of print, and since them
returning to print, this book has received the addition of
a forward written by Nick Pope. This is the book
where she's becomes regarded as a fantastic and renowned researcher.

(36:28):
This book focuses on eight abductees and introduces the idea
of the government either knowing more than they say or
bluntly that they are responsible for alien abductions. This is
known as the Real Researcher's Handbook to Alien Abductions.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
See that sounds like one that I would have preferred
to read.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
And you will, and you will, Yeah, I won't, I
will not. I refuse, Okay, I'll do this one. But
this one's supposed to be just an absolute piece of
work and what got her regarded as being such an
amazing researcher. Jumping around a little bit, I was supposed

(37:10):
to cover this book, and that's that's just basically what's
out there on it. It's really hard to find any
I couldn't find any reviews. Anybody who writes about it
just talks about Carla Turner. They don't talk about this book.
The last book she did is called The Masquerade of Angels,
and this book is based on one specific abductee that

(37:30):
she was working with, and this dude's name is Ted Rice.
Now that book I have a PDF of somewhere hopefully,
so we'll be able to get into that book as well.
But doing research for this and trying to find some
stuff out about this book, I came across a podcast
called Maskariate of Angels, Connecting the Dots, and funny enough,

(37:55):
this just ended up being like nine hours of Ted
Rice being interviewed. Was really amazing. So we get to
hear a little bit of inside information on Carla Turner
and how she functioned and how she was as a person.
It was really really fascinating into here and listen to.
So we might have to do a whole separate episode

(38:16):
about his shit, because his shit's crazy. His story gets
pretty nuts. It kind of seems like he could be
somebody who's full of shit, but it just seems like,
you know, he's eighty years old now, it just seems
like he's somebody who's been talking about this this whole
fucking life. He's very respectful. He constantly tells people, I
know that religious stuff turns people off, but I've got

(38:38):
to talk about something that kind of coincides with that.
He constantly informs me that you don't have to believe
anything he's saying. It's just, you know, with working with Carla,
we feel people need to be informed of this type
of thing. He mentioned that she would regularly not work
with people or interview people that she thought was sketchy.

(38:58):
He said that she was very stringent on who she
would work with and interview she gave. He gave the
example of this one group of people who they've basically
formed a group together because they all felt they had
been abducted, so they've made this group themselves, and she
went to go talk to them, and they just wouldn't
break away from the fact that they were angels and

(39:20):
they were being taken away to talk to God, and
there was just no other outcome to them that it
was anything other than that. So she decided not to
work with them. Yeah, and so he said that there
was many times that he knew of and the time
that he knew her, and he said that they got
really close. The stuff that he was going through was
pretty terrible. He said that her and Barbara are calling

(39:43):
him on a daily basis, spending time with each other.
He gave the example of one time where and this
is after the book, the second book, that where she
gathered most of the people that were in that book
with some most of the eight victims, and they all
rented a place and spent the night together other to
have them talk with each other and talk with Tim

(40:04):
and they had like a very unforeseen reaction. They were
just all terrified. They ended up just like huddling on
the floor in one room with each other when it
came time to go to sleep because they were too scared.
And he mentioned that Carla just sat there and got
her blanket, went into the living room. She said, well,
I'm gonna wait for him out there, and if they
come in here, you guys need to tell them to

(40:24):
come get me first. So she was just he said,
she was a carefree, fun loving person, but very serious
did very serious investigating, and she he said that she
always believed that it wasn't just aliens alone, and she
strongly believed that all basically all alien abductions were some

(40:49):
sort of government co op with aliens or even more boldly,
just they were responsible for it. And she was so
into this because after what she experienced and what she
learned from other people. Uh and like that any of
your that last paragraph there kind of lines up with this.
She considered this a terrible violation of human rights.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh, yeah, of course it is. And that's I I think.
I that's why I think that it is more some
sort of military industrial group. Like I don't think it's
necessarily the military itself. I think it's some somebody outside

(41:36):
the government that's that's doing this. But it wouldn't surprise
me if it was part of like one of the
outreach or the out branch offs from MK Ultra where
it's it's like mind experiments where they're trying to to

(41:58):
normal like they it's it's almost like a stacked delusions.
So they have a screen memory for a screen memory,
Like if you get through this screen of you know,
meeting owls in your backyard, then you're going to then
have the screen memory of an alien abduction when really

(42:19):
what happened is you were being experimented on by fucking
mad scientists in some weird facilities somewhere.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, And that's that's why I found it weird that
you thought she was so full of shit.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
And that's because she because she doesn't talk about that
at all. Right, this book is just her and everybody
she's ever having experiences with aliens, and that's and that's it.
And it just got to the point where there was
a point in the book where she's talking about this
guy who had been having experiences and she helped him

(42:54):
with get connected with Barbara and have his regards Hian
sessions and all that, and he started telling her about
all these experiences that he was having, and she mentions
in the book. It got to the point where I
was like, how can one person have so many abduction

(43:15):
events happen in this in such a short amount of time,
Like you've been writing the whole fucking book about that
shit every fucking day of your life to something that's happened,
and now you're questioning somebody else.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Fuck yes, And that's that's I understand what you're saying.
And it's that's why I think I thought you would
find interesting, is because she takes a very different turn
after she starts to take this really good look. You know,
it's such a good look that it made her renown
for being a good researcher. Bud Hopkins talked about her.
Everybody did everybody you can think of. She's been on

(43:47):
art Bell, she's been on coast to coast, and everybody
had nothing but good things to say to her. That's
that's one thing I found interesting that this ted dude said.
She was very adamant that no one she was investigating
or had talked to, was talking about peace and love
and crystal butt plugs aliens. This was all horrible shit.

(44:08):
This was experimentation, mutilation, sexual assault, force pregnancies, all the
horrible shit when we talk about aliens. There was no
save the Earth with brotherly love bullshit. And she felt
that that was propaganda planted by the government. And that's
you know, she that's what I kind of.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
When you grow alien propaganda. Well, see, that's incredible.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
We'll see. That's the thing though, is that as she
took a deeper look into this, she really moved away
from this being aliens. So I found this clip today,
So she started to talk like this, you know, could.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
You express thinking from experience? I can only say this
for sure. There are humans who monitor abductees, who had
interrogated abductee, who have abducted abductees, and either through drugs,
are electronic controls, made them vulnerable to questioning and then

(45:09):
tried to erase the most memory of the event. And
usually they're physical after effects. There's a glogginess, there's sometimes
a nausea. It's sometimes very physically there after the event happens.
Whether they're involved actively with the aliens in doing this
or with a group of aliens. We theorize because we
get reports of and our selves see alienentities with the

(45:32):
military people. But to what extent they are cooperative or coercive.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
We don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Eighteens have said they control the military in some instances.
We don't know if that's true or not. Alive. It
seems to me that they begin monitoring when they became
aware of this. Obviously they begin monitoring abduction activity. I
have one case in my new book Taken that goes
back to nineteen fifty four where military sequestered an entire
family on a farm for four days after they had

(46:00):
had alien encounters on the farm, so we know they
were doing it at least that far back. It seems
to me that they worn't very hard, scrambled very hard
to try to duplicate the technology, not only the technology
for craft and the technology of other sorts, but also
the mind control technology. And I think they've done pretty
well in catching up enough to do some terrible things

(46:21):
with this technology. They may think they're doing it for
national security purposes to glean information that's necessary, but I
know to a person, if any government agency really involved
in this wanted our information from any abductees, every one
of them would be happy to offer it without being abducted, drugged,
and threatened. Where we would give the information, They just

(46:43):
don't want us to know they're taking it.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
So that's kind of where she was heading towards the
end of.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
So she is still thinking that the alien abduction thing
is real, but she thinks in combination with that, there's
also military involvement.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, and she talks a lot. I've heard every fucking
lecture that she's given. I've watched maybe twenty hours of
her lectures at conventions at colleges and all that shit.
I've spent a lot of time reading her stuff, but
it really seems like through her research she started to
see that there's a military abduction aspect to this, and

(47:26):
if it seems like everybody in the fucking world's been abducted. Quote,
let's say she at first was saying abducted by aliens,
but now it seems like she believes it's abducted by
the military.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, I mean, based on what she was saying there,
it sounded more like she was saying, if you've been
abducted by aliens, then it's likely you've also been abducted
by Like it didn't sound like she was saying that
they were abducting people in place of aliens. It sounded
more like she was saying they were interested in abducting
people that had already been abducted by aliens.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Right right, or she her big thing was is that
they know more than they're saying, and they're they're most
they're most likely involved. But Yeah, through her research, I
think she's kind of put the dots together with if
this is happening to almost every other fucking person, like
she kind of was saying in her first book is
that's just her honest reporting. If this is gonna happen

(48:23):
to almost every other fucking person that you meet. The
perfect person to do this type of shit too, is
people who are part of the military at any level.
Anybody who's in the military. Her first husband was in
the military. How many friends do you have, Mike, that
are in the.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Military currently, none, But I've got a few friends. I've
got a couple of friends that are ex military.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Right, So if I went through my my friends group,
let's just say it's twenty fucking people, twelve of them
have served in the military. So it might sound weird
if twelve of the twenty people I know report weird
shit like being abducted and experimented on, because again, that's
what she's talking about here. I was shocked to hear

(49:08):
this dude say she wasn't finding anybody that was taking
them to their planet and showing how peaceful and together
life could be when we all get along. This dude,
we're running out of time here. I'll just I'll kind
of touch on the third book a little bit. It's
about that dude, Ted Rice, and I got to hear

(49:28):
him say this shit, So I haven't read the book,
but I've listened to hours of him fucking talk. He
was somebody who was abducted, I believe in Arkansas, and
he lived in a trailer park. And what had happened
is that basically everybody in this fucking trailer park was abducted.
And they came to realize this because after it happened,

(49:52):
nobody really talked about it. But one of the children
in a trailer park kept talking about it, and her
parent kind of tried to keep her quiet, and she
finally started talking about it, and they all just listen
to her story and they're like, that happened to us.
This is what happened to us. And he says that
he doesn't know who, but somebody sent Carla Turner a

(50:14):
letter saying that they should get in contact with him
to talk about this case. Now, I wanted to look
up this case. They call it the neighborhood abduction. I
couldn't find much on it, damn near nothing. All that
came up was the story from Carla Turner's third book.
So he apparently has been going through hypnotic regression before

(50:35):
he met Carla Turner, or he kind of had different
beliefs about it. He's very hippity dippity almost, you know,
he's very crystal butt pluggy. He goes through his hypnotic
stuff and realizes it's been going a lot longer, and
it's convinced that these are angels, they're not aliens to him.
You know. But after he does you know, research with
Carla Turner and they do more hypnotherapy stuff. You know,

(50:59):
he's he made a very interesting thing, Mike, a statement
that made me think of you. Somebody during the interview
had talked about something about a witch, and Bryce said,
don't exclude anything like that. Don't exclude fairies, witches, monsters,
it's all part of the same thing.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
There was a part in her book where she was
talking about an experience that her son was having where
he started feeling like the inside of his body was vibrating,
and that he felt this immense pressure on his head
that felt like he was trying to eject from his

(51:42):
own body. And that kind of resonated with me because
that is an experience. That sort of sensation is usually
what happens when you're trying to do astral projection, and
when your non physical body or your astral body leaves

(52:07):
your physical body. That's usually the first indication as you
start feeling this vibration and your body, followed by a
pressure in your head, and then ultimately a release as
you're exited out of your body. So when she started
describing that, it made me start to think, like if
we if physical abductions, like the abduction scenario where there's

(52:31):
physical marks on you and everything is being conducted by
the military, maybe there is an aspect of abduction that's
being done by other entities and it's done on an
astral level, So your your astral body is actually taken
out and that's what is experiencing the abduction.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
That's why they're able to put in screen memories and shit.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Right because you and it could just be because everything's
taking place on the astroplane, so they're able to kind
of frame it however they want. So when you return back,
you just have these memories of, you know, seeing an
owl perched on your fence, or seeing a strange looking
van following you or something, when in reality, it was

(53:22):
some non physical being that's in our reality that is
trying to get some of our fear juice from us.
Because she does mention in the book that there were
certain memories that came back from people where they had
memories where it seemed like the whole purpose of the

(53:45):
abduction was to garner fear or pain from the victim,
and that was it. Like that didn't seem like there
was any like real scientific purpose behind it other than
to create a fear scenario. So it goes back to
what I always say, where it's some it's all tied

(54:08):
to ghosts and monsters like you just said, and their
purpose is to feed off of our negativity or our
negative emotions, whether it be pain or fear response or anger, frustration,
anything like that. Even annoyance is probably like a little

(54:29):
tidbit of a snack form like ooh, appetizer.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Yeah, that's funny enough. That leads to a story that
Tim Rice told about this neighborhood abduction. And he said
during this interview that he had never told this before,
not to anybody besides Carla. And I found that interesting
because here, if we haven't got Shadow Band already, we're
definitely gonna get Shadow now.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I'm probably going to be executed before this show even
comes up. There's there's a sniper waiting on my garage
right now. And as soon as I try to leave
for work, I'm fucking toast.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Well, I mean this, this them her saying that that
these things looked like they just wanted to cause fear
and terror and that was their only objective in these cases.
Now that trails off into something that the military is
good at, and that's a fear based mind control. We've

(55:30):
been getting dosed with that ship for the past fucking
six years.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Well, I mean, yeah, starting with COVID, but you could
go back to the Montalk project, right, and that that
was a big thing, and and Project Monarch.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Yeah, that's my point. It's it's it's it's always been
a fucking thing. It's and it sounds it's old business. Right.
So one of the Ted's neighborhood abduction story, he says
that they were abducted, they found themselves all of a
sudden on this ship. He says, it's you know, now

(56:06):
he knows better. They were inside of a UFO, and
he says that it was everybody that lived there, men,
women and children, except inside the UFO there was you know.
I love the way he describes this because he doesn't
say there's glass separating the men or the adults from
the children. He says, I don't know what it was

(56:28):
made of. It appeared to be like a big thick
sea through material something like glass would be to us,
but I don't know if that's what it was. But
they were able to see the children, and there were aliens,
gray aliens in the room with the children, and he
says that they were on time out. The adults were

(56:50):
is what he called it. He says that you can't move,
you can't talk, there's nothing you can do. You're just present.
You can't do anything. And the gray aliens were telling
the children this is back in the day, says, we
hear you guys like Barney the Dinosaur. And the kids
got excited and said, yeah, at that time, there wasn't
a kid who didn't love Barney the Dinosaur, he says.

(57:12):
And he says, at that time it would, I mean
visually looked like a stuffed animal, but he does. He says,
I don't know if it was an alien inside of
a suit or anything like that, but basically, a stuffed
animal version of Barney came out and the kids were
kind of pleased by that, and the alien said that
that's a stuffed animal. That's not Barney. And the kids,

(57:36):
you know, basically were like, no, that's not Barney. And
they said, we're going to bring you guys the real Barney.
And he says, the whole time that they're going through this,
the parents can't do anything. They're just observing this, and
they take this stuffed whatever cops play fucking Barney back
to where it came from. And he said that, and

(57:57):
he had to stop and say like, I don't, I don't.
I've never told this publicly, and you don't have to
believe me. I'm just telling you what I saw. I'm
just telling you what happened. And he says, this is
the same thing I report under hypnosis. This is what
I remember. He says. They brought out a real dinosaur.
He says it was about four feet tall, and it

(58:18):
was colored like Barney. And he said he had to
rethink a little bit. I think it was purple and
something purple and green, I believe is what it was.
He said it was colored like Barnie, but it was
a real dinosaur. And he says that the.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Kids kind of took kids you like Barney right right, amazing.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
He said that the kids were taken back, you know,
they knew right away that it was a flesh and
blood creature. And he said that he watched that dinosaur
walk up to the children and bite one of their
heads clean off. He said that he was forced to
sit there and watch this dinosaur rip the children to pieces.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
He says, like, I don't know why I'm laughing at it,
but I find that incredibly hilarious.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Well see, he said that he looked at everybody else
in the room and then the other children, and he
says it was just a festival of terror. I'm sure right,
you know, he said, like the dinosaur would knock one
kid down, bite its arm off, and then bury its
face and its chest to get to its ards and
and swallow them. He says, it was just a fucking RASTA.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Know why I think this is so funny, But it's
fucking hilarious to me.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Well, it wasn't to them, he said after it.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Well, yeah, I'm sure it wasn't. I'm just picturing it
like a movie scene. Hey, kids, you like Barney, Yeah,
well we got Barney for it. And they opened the
door and as a fucking dinosaur that's been starving, and
it's like, oh, fucking snacks, awesome, and it just starts
digging in.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
They're able to time try. So they just got like
a beat up velociraptor and spray painted it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
They just yoinked it out of Earth right before the
comet hits and then go feed children to it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
He said that right after it was done doing that,
that the glass became kind of like a cloudy, and
the adults found themselves back in a part of the
ship to where there was no partition, no glass there.
It was just a new part of the ship. But
the children were there. They were all unharmed. Shortly after that,

(01:00:37):
the floor they were standing on became transparent, and the
ship started going down towards the earth, and as they
were close to the ground, the floor kind of became
like a not there, and they kind of just fell
out onto the ground. And he made mention that there's
a few people that just like looking down at the

(01:00:58):
ground from like five hundred feet up, you know, fastly
approaching earth and having you just kind of fart out
as you get close enough, left a lot of people
with lifelong nightmares and night terrors of falling. And he
even said himself, I grew up going on roller coasters
and doing all that shit, and he's like, I can't
go up and flight his stairs without getting nervous because

(01:01:20):
that was so scary. But he said himself, it seems
like they just wanted terror from us. They just wanted
fear from us. And I have never heard of an
alien abduction like that. Everything that Travis Walton went through
is horrific. It's terrifying most cases when it comes to abductions,

(01:01:42):
it's all experimentation and scary stuff. Even with David Huggins
went through. I mean, he got down with alien ladies,
but who knows. Maybe he really didn't want to fucking
do that. Maybe he didn't want to be having a
bunch of babies against his will.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
I don't know. He seemed to be very into it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
I'm sure after a while, right, it's not a bad job.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Would they have to get amused to it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Right? But all these things that happened during these abductions
that you normally hear of, they're all terrifucking fine. They're
all like fired a sky that communion, dude, I don't
think I've still been able to finish that movie. To me,
it's very scary, But I've never heard of mocking the
gnawing of children by a fucking dinosaur like you like

(01:02:29):
you laugh, but why did they fucking introduce it? And
like pick a child's emblem like Barney, they're just why
did they have to fake everybody with happiness first? But
that's terrible. That sounds like a trauma based mind control.
That sounded like a yeah, you know, they sent everybody
back there fucking shook to their core. They'd watched their
children be fucking chewed to death by a goddamn dinosaur,

(01:02:53):
no matter goofy as that sounds visually seeing that that's
going to destroy your fucking mind as apparent, Yeah, yeah,
for sure. And then the next second they're like, haha,
here's your kids, get out, like that's gonna fuck you
up even more.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Just kidding, like you son of a bitch, I mean,
thank you for not actually eating my kid, but also
you son of a bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
So with her saying that this person and this person
and this person, this person's probably gone through alien abduction
in this new view, she's saying that most of these
people are probably been abducted by the military in league
and aliens, Yeah, and aliens, But that that type of
talk is what people say brought about an early end

(01:03:35):
to doctor Turner. She was diagnosed. She started feeling ill
and went to the doctors and it was immediately diagnosed
with an unknown, unclassifiable ultra aggressive rare form of cancer.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Oh, she got shot with the cancer gun.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
The hag gun, they say, is what it's called. Now
this is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
I've heard Stephen Greer talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Right, Well, yeah, there's I don't know if you've ever
seen it, but there's this video of I don't know
who it is, but if they're they're in Parliament and
they actually have it there and they break down all
this components and show that that's a real fun that
is not a joke. That is very real, awesome. Yeah,
and it's strange because people, like they say, is mysterious
because there's been plenty of other researchers, not just in ufology,

(01:04:24):
but when they start to talk like that, like she's
talking about that get a strange unclassifiable unknown form of
ultra aggressive cancer.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Uh or a heart attack? Yeah, we did that whole
show all about people tied to UFOs that GET that
have been killed or suicided. Yeah, oh do we have
to bleep suicide?

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Are we pussies like that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Well, I mean, what, the only thing that's gonna happen
is that YouTube would demonetize us, and we're not monetized
on YouTube anyway, so.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Uh could be well?

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Good, Okay, let me see here. She died in January
January ninth, nineteen ninety six, and again they call her
death mysterious and questionable. Her family does at the beginning anyway,
because she was just as healthy as a horse, and
it was something like within sight of a couple months
maybe a month of where she was gone, and she

(01:05:20):
had a clean bill of health from her doctor. And
thinking about it, we know more about cancer now than ever,
and we know it's more of a genetic disposition type thing.
Nobody in her family has died of cancer if they haven't,
since it's not something that runs in her family runs
in her family, and doing more research, I guess now
they're labeling it as a type of breast cancer. But

(01:05:43):
they just even her family at the beginning called some
type of bullshit because she she was just diagnosed and
gone so fast. Basically the second she started talking about
government involved with being involved with actual abductions.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
The thing is, though, like I get where we're coming
from like trying to tie that in. But look at
all the people that are still here that I've like,
I've been talking about it on the show, and and
Granny could say, well, you're a fucking nobody, and and accurate,
You're right, I am a nobody. That being said, I'm

(01:06:22):
talking about it and no one's shutting me up. What
about like Steven Greer, he's talking about he's been talking
about it and he's still alive, right, I think, And
I know he likes to claim that he's been his
life has been, but he's still He's still around. He
hasn't been Phil Schneider.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Funny enough, she passed away the same month Phil Schneider died.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Huh busy month for the Black Ops teams.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
I guess, yeah. It's just but that's that's just my
and my point of view, us having twelve listeners and her,
you know, going all over the world with book tours
and being on.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Here's the thing. If I had written a book before
we started the podcast about how me and everybody that
I ever knew ever was abducted by aliens, then I
could then I would get into being a legitimate researcher
and we could be broadcasting to millions. So really, you
can blame me for the fact that we're not dead

(01:07:20):
because we're talking about it's all my fault. If I
had if I had looked ahead into the future, I
would have written the book about how I was abducted
for all of my life, even though I never believed
in aliens and had no interest at all at any
point in time. Ever, But then I found out that
I was abducted, and instantly I'm balls deep in the

(01:07:42):
UFU lore. Then we could both be assassinated together and
you know, be heroes to the UFO community in perpetuity.
Be could so Yeah, I mean, if I ever find
a time travel device, I'll do that so that we
can and we can do that. Maybe maybe we can
get paid before we get killed, or maybe we'll just

(01:08:05):
end up like Phil Schneider, face down with the catheter
around her neck.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, holy shit, I'll pass.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Yeah. Well, I mean it's a small price to pay
to be a UFO hero.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Do you think uh I should be a laughing go
Do you think that we're just kind of beyond that
form of una and government control now, like they it's
like they're just too many eyes on them for something
like that to happen, Like, I don't know, there's not
one research that started barfing up that black goo and
there's doing research for this. Unfortunately, when you come when

(01:08:43):
you research doctor Turner, one thing that you're gonna come
up with is a list of researchers who've died mysteriously
and there's like there's there's been plenty of researchers into
this type of stuff that got an unidentifiable, unknown rare
form of cancer and we're gone within a matter of weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
So yeah, so that's that's the conspiracy behind her her passing.
They think that she was just to you, I think
she was like a forty forty three forty five. She
was very young, and it was just and it happened
to be just when she started talking about that type
of stuff. We're not saying that's what we believe. We're
just saying that's what she started talking about. But I
just found it very interesting because, uh, talking about being

(01:09:30):
shadow banned when we did the military abduction episode, that
somebody told me like I can't find you guys here,
I can't find you guys there, and we were there,
but like our name and even our logo was literally
pixelated blurred out, so like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
That, So you're telling me the government is responsible for
me not being rich and eventually assassinated by the government.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
I would like to think, so I wouldn't I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Need to write a strongly worded email. This is bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
It has nothing to do with our quality or consistency.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
What are you talking about. We've got the greatest quality.
We never run into any technical issues, and we're wildly
consistent in everything we do. Always.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yeah, it's true, but uh yeah, so yeah, well, I mean,
let us know, if you guys want us to dig
into I'll try to find a copy of Taking, because
I mean, since that book in particular so highly regarded
for its research value. And then to hear about Rice
talk about how strict she was with her research and
really quick to pass up on anybody who she felt

(01:10:32):
was fishy. You know, I think it's just with hearing
her lectures.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Or maybe it's more of a we can smell our
own sort of thing, you know, maybe she doesn't want
to be found out. She's like, oh, I know they're
full of shit. They're gonna know I'm full of shit.
Let's let's tone this down.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Well, I'll send you some of her her lectures. And
like I said, it's a different fucking world. Man, those
are probably all off of YouTube now, they're all probably
bed and some paywall.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
I'll track him down, I'll get him in a headlock,
and I'll fucking listen to him.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
But it's just it just really seemed like it started
off as being like some she something she didn't understand.
There's something she tried to make sense of the best
she could.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
No, I think she fully understood it. And I think
that she made up a bullshit story so that she
could get in close with people of influence. And then
she like she talks about how she it was never
into UFOs and now I'm the biggest UFO researcher of
all time. I don't know how it happened. It was
all by design. She wanted to be in the field,

(01:11:38):
like and like, look at it this way. If you
or I were able to get in with fucking Bud Hopkins,
if he were still alive and do research in tandem
with big names in the UFO field, we would fucking
jump at it. But we're fucking nobody's and that no

(01:11:58):
one's no one's calling the the what Cast phone and
being like, hey, guys, I want you to join me
in researching all this cool UFO stuff. And we're like,
oh my god, I would love to do that, but
we don't get to because we didn't write a fucking
book about our own experiences. But you write a book
about your own bullshit experiences that match all these other

(01:12:19):
experiences exactly. Now you got it in and you're like, look,
I am one of you. Two, let me help research,
and they're like, okay, we can do this together, and
then they high five, presumably and then go and write
books because she wrote a book about her bullshit experiences
that likely never happened.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
See one, there is a what cast phone. Two. I
would agree with you. I would agree with you if
if if she if we hadn't done the podcast for
our fucking eleven years and had never heard of the lady.
I mean, and we've done I'm not tooting our own

(01:12:59):
horn here. People have complained about us not leaving sources
for ship. That's why we call the show the what
Cast is for you to question things and go look
your fucking self. We're not making this ship up, none
of its fucking facts. Sometimes there's things that are obviously
made up, like evil time traveling Barack Obama. But no,
that's that?

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
How dare you? How dare you? That's that? Was fighting words? Matteo?
You wait till the five hundredth episode. You're near thrown down.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
To me, it just seems like it may have started
off that way. Let's let's say that's what happened. It
just I mean, if I disfigured she'd be more famous,
I think we would have heard of her after like
owning over two dozen ufology books ourselves, you know. I
just I think that she I mean, even after reading
about Phil Schneider, I didn't hear about her. I think

(01:13:50):
it took like us doing another show on Phil Schneider
to come across her name. But I don't I think
she was held in such a high regard because she
was that's a good researcher. I think all those people
are fucking gatekeepers and didn't want some new person in
their shit clogging up the circuit with their bullshit. I
think if she sucked, they would have said so. I
think that's why they gave her such a good uh

(01:14:13):
rating on her research.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Maybe they're all grifters, Matteo. Maybe every one of them
is a fucking grifter.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Maybe maybe, and we're.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
All getting host Maybe they're the ones that are responsible
for abducting people in the first place. They find the
fucking candidates.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Oh, they just wait for people to come to the
conventions and take all their emails.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
And they're like you there, you will be the next
on my operating table, right, but I will be a
reptile to you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
Thank you for listening to the what Cast. You can
find us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, iTunes, on YouTube. Enjoy
the podcast, Get yourself and What Cast T shirt or
a stick or pack? Who was that dude on that
one episode? Try the links and Homies page. All this
and more can be found at www dot wacasters dot com.

(01:15:08):
Thanks again for listening and have a great week.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Section something sent

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
Sec