HAMLET (3.4) Week 1: "The Weight of Duality" - Confronting Gertrude | The Rehearsal Room - The Working Actor's Journey

Episode Transcript
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>> Nathan Agin (00:00):
Well, good, to see everybody. Thank you so much for, for
being here. I know for some of you it's totally new.
So welcome, some of you are returning, so
welcome back. and really excited to
to watch you guys explore Hamlet in this way. Not
only, you know, is it a lot of fun just to dig into
the play, but doing it in this very

(00:20):
exploratory way I think would be a lot of fun and hopefully
provide insights not only to you as a group, but to
anyone, watching and following along.
So, all I, the only things I want to do tonight,
I think it's always helpful to do a quick round of
introductions among the group so that everybody
gets to kind of know either where people

(00:41):
are or where they're coming from or what other work they've
done. we can keep it somewhat brief,
but you have a couple hours so you can use the time however you like.
and then I also like to mention that we do have some patrons,
kind of helping to keep the administrative lights on. So I want to say thank you
to Joan, Michelle, Christian, Jim Magdalene,
Ivar, Claudia and Cliff.

(01:02):
So thank you guys so much for, for your help there and your support.
and yeah, I'm very excited. for those who don't
know me too well, I'll just quickly start and say,
Yep, my name is Nathan Agan and
used to. Used to live in LA and act there
and then have lived
in a lot of different places. But now I find myself in

(01:24):
very Northern California, only about a 40
minute ride from the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, but I'm in
California. and mostly I do audiobooks as
ah, acting these days. And then this,
this project started three and a half years ago
and last year I kind of made the commitment to just start
doing it more monthly. And it's. It's been going really well
and the roster of people and artists

(01:47):
has, has grown and so I'm always excited to find more
actors I didn't know or more dramaturgs or
directors. it's, it's great. So that's,
that's what I'm doing here. But I will be listening
to the session and there shouldn't be a need for me
to pop in at any time, any technical or other, other
issue. But I'll be here if, if you need it and then I'll
say hi at the end. So.

>> Paul Nicholas (02:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Again, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate everybody making
some time in their. In their schedule and their week, to explore the
play.

Thank you, Nathan, for making it available to all of us
and for letting us know that you're going to be listening. So we can't talk about you.

I mean, you can, but, you know, it's like any
producer, like, you know, he's somewhere in the building,
but you can say what you want.

hi, friends.
Kathleen and I go back, Ooh,
longer than anyone else on this screen.
Charlotte and I go back to 2012. Cassie and
I go all the way back to 2023.
And I'm just meeting Max. Hi. I
despise introductions, so I'm going to be really

(02:56):
quick with mine. Paul. I live in Philadelphia.
Moved here in 2016. Actor, director, and now
a college professor. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe I just said
that. only an adjunct. It's not a big deal.
And, I'm not that smart,
you will find. but I'm enthusiastic
and I'm a bit of a Shakespeare nerd.

(03:17):
And you all are smarter than me. And we're. Have a lot of fun, I hope. And
we're going to dive into a play that I love to dive into. I could
dive into this play for the rest of my life and be happy.
so there we go. I, guess we'll popcorn it.
I'll go next to the person I've known the longest.

>> Kathleen (03:32):
Ktl Hi, everybody. I'm
so glad to be here. I'm always. And I think,
Paul, you're smarter than you say you are. You're very smart.

don't ask Charlotte for backup on that.

I was. I'm an actor and a playwright. a
sometime teacher. Love teaching, but always felt that
I hold it so high that I couldn't never say, oh,
excuse me while I go do this audition or whatnot.
So I decided not to really take that route
and work, side jobs to support
myself.
Shakespeare's been on my plate for many, many years,

(04:09):
and, I have enjoyed
learning how to voice,
these words and make them meaningful to me
without,
taking them away from
who I am as an actor. So I'm always trying
to make them my own, but also

(04:31):
deliver them well so that people can hear and
understand. I, was born in
Philly, spent many years in
San Francisco area. moved back, to New
York almost 30 years ago, 28 years ago.
And, feel. Feel very much at home
here.

And, and in her. In her mid-40s.
Charlotte.
Hello, everyone.

>> Jamal Douglas (05:02):
this is my
fourth go round with Nathan. I don't
know. It started during the pandemic, with Bell Stratagem.
so it's super fun to do this. I am Canadian by
birth. I married an American. I live in America.

New Jersey.

So I do live in New Jersey. yeah,
the other part. Oh, there's much yelling going on downstairs.
I like to do Shakespeare. I hope I understand it.
Sometimes I don't. I'm an actor. Director.
New minted adjunct
professor. in the Philadelphia
area. Yes. So that's my life.

There.

we go. Cassie.

>> Cassie (05:43):
Hi, friends. It's such a delight to be in this virtual space
with all of you. I'm Cassie Alexander joining
you here from Philly, but I'm from Indiana originally,
and this is my first go round with one of these readings.
So I'm very excited to support you as a
dramaturg. I'm mostly an actor and everything I know
by Shakespeare I know from doing it. So this is fun
for me to try on a different hat. I've had various experience

(06:06):
with cutting these scenes, and I did some text coaching
last summer that really lit me up. I love
Shakespeare. Anytime I get to work on these plays, I just get
very, very excited. and I'm just really
looking forward to spending some time with Hamlet.
Particularly the way that Paul has, is
envisioning this scene playing out is changing my
relationship to how the scene works.

(06:28):
And that is the magic to me.
If we're doing. If we're still doing these plays 400 years
after they were written, I think it's because we're looking for something
different. So I love a bold and different choice,
and I'm delighted to be here. Max, over to you.

>> Max (06:46):
Thank you, Cassie. hello, everyone. My name is
Max. I'm an actor in Los Angeles primarily,
voice acting right now. And I also play,
ah, headmaster of a schoolhouse at a theme park.
So that's my relationship to teaching. I'm also a
standardized patient, so yay, spot. so we
have so much in common.

Is it a Harry Potter theme park?

>> Max (07:07):
No, I did almost. I got pretty
far in that audition, but not yet. It's Knott's Berry
Farm. They have, like, a Wild west town. And in the summers, I
play the headmaster of the schoolhouse. His name is
Noble K. Johnson.
It's very fun, very interactive, so I really enjoy
that. And part of that gig is I get

(07:27):
to go around with a book of complete works of Shakespeare and just
get to read all day. I wish I had more time
to focus on doing that, but the. The guests take a lot of my
attention. but one of my favorite Shakespeare
experiences was getting to play the host of the Garter Inn, which, the
production I did, they set it in the 60s, did it very much like
sitcommy, and I found that that character

(07:48):
was really funny in that era. So I really enjoyed that and
had a lot of fun. what else?
I'm just very happy to be here with you all. And this is my second go around with the, working
actors journey.

I should have pointed out that Charlotte actually, introduced me to
Nathan and this group with, Measure for
Measure.

>> Max (08:08):
Wonderful.

I think she was playing
Isabel and I was playing Angelo. Or the other way around. I'm not sure. I don't
remember how it went. almost
made Cassie spit up, which is one of my goals.
we have four sessions of two hours
each, which sounds like a lot on one scene, but

(08:30):
it goes really fast when we really start to dig in.
So I am going to try to keep us on track.
But that is not to say I want to establish that
everything is up for discussion. This is a workshop.
We're playing or exploring. Especially with this
wild idea I have, we really are exploring, so
everything can stop for discussion. I

(08:51):
would also like to point out Kathleen will not be with us next week,
but we do have a lot for the Hamlets to
do, a lot to dig into. and that will not
be a problem.
would we like to start
with a conversation about where this crazy idea came
from? Or should we just forget that?

(09:13):
Would we like to start with a conversation about
the second quarter versus the Folio, or
forget all that and just read. What would you all like to do?

>> Max (09:22):
I'd like to hear about your foundation of
the concept, to know that we're on, like,
the same springboard.

Me too.

>> Max (09:31):
M. That's my humble thought.

Okay. I just wanted to do something
different, something crazy. No, that's not true. so
for years,
this play has perplexed me and fascinated me
and particularly the soliloquies. And it
dawned on me way back when
that in most of the

(09:54):
soliloquies, he is arguing with himself.
It's almost as if there were two sides of him
trying to deal with a problem, which is why he has such
a hard time getting to answers, getting to solutions.
This was my idea, and that
was spinning around in my brain when I directed a student
version of it. And the

(10:15):
actor that I cast as Hamlet, which was the best actor among the
student group. He said, I have too much homework, I can't.
This is a college production. He said, I can't
do all these lines. And suddenly
I went, wait a minute. I've had this idea about two
hamlets arguing with themselves in the
soliloquies. Why don't we cast two actors?
And I tried it and they both loved it and the rest

(10:38):
of the cast loved it and it kind of worked. And I fine
tuned a couple of things which weren't working so well and it really worked.
And audience members said to me, I finally
understand the soliloquies now. There
are certain scenes that are confusing, obviously, because you have two human beings on
stage and you have one person talking to them and that gets a little confusing.
But, for the most part it worked. And since then

(10:59):
I've been like trying to push it to theaters and
developing it and fine tuning it and trying to make it better.
That's where it came from.
And then as I was, as I've been working on it over the
years, I thought of having if we
cast a certain actor to play the whole
thing versus casting a different actor to play the whole thing,

(11:20):
we're going to get two different hamlets with the same words
because they bring different sensibilities and different approaches and different
artistry to the role. So having
two different actors play it at the same time
sort of creates these two different hamlets in argument with
each other. And by the way, they're not always
in opposition. They're,

(11:41):
especially in this scene, they're not in
opposition. They're just taking different approaches
to how to deliver the message that they're trying to deliver.
That makes sense or does that sound weird? I have had a
lot of cocaine today, so it could have been weird.
Max, I don't do cocaine. That's a joke.

>> Max (12:00):
I figured. But I'm glad you clarified because I
wouldn't want to assume, not since I.

Used to hang out with Kathleen a lot. I haven't done cocaine.

We were swinging.

how does that sound? Feel free
to say that sounds weird.

That sounds great. It's a little different than I
had, What I had thought you were going to say,
maybe, Because I've been since
I finally got onto the fact that you were not using
two different Hamlets and one Gertrude, but two
hamlets in the same scene. Once I put it together I
was a little slow. But

(12:40):
looking at duality in this play is
quite fascinating. And
the question to me, came to
me today that, you know, when I'm having An
argument when I am indecisive
or I'm holding a problem that I don't quite have the
answer to. and the experience, the

(13:02):
physical experience I have of,
holding two opposing thoughts at the same
time and having that argument with myself.
the, the I,
I, I asked myself, well,
what do I want when
I do that? And so then I thought, oh, that

(13:23):
would be a great question for, for Paul. And the. And the
two hamlets is, is to try to figure out
during our process, you know,
what, what does each
side of.
The answer that I came up for myself was
a conclusion, a unity,

(13:45):
in a world that is so binary, in a world that is
so split, including his world, of course, in the
play, but our world,
the need to unify, the need to
come to peace, to
rest, to sleep, it is
powerful. So those questions just came

(14:05):
up for me while I was working today and yesterday on
this. And, thought, well, if I'm ever on a desert island,
this is the play. This is the one thing that I'm going to take with
me.

Because, you know, Kathleen, recently I've
been dealing with an issue and I realized that not only do I have two
opposing viewpoints, on the
issue, but I have two very different emotional
reactions based on whichever viewpoint it is.
Which is fascinating.

it really is.

And I would say my initial answer to what do the
hamlets want? And guys, this is not a direction. This is just
off the top of my head. I think the two hamlets
want. No, I think I'm wrong.
I was going to say they want the same thing. They just have different approaches to getting it.
But I might be wrong about that. I might be wrong about that.
We'll see. We'll see as we dig in.

Yeah. Are they. My what I wrote was,
sorry to keep speaking, but, is there a
goal to find consensus
between.

Fascinating question for us to take forward.

Yeah. And is it to unify, is it
to obliterate the duality in the world
as Hamlet is experiencing
it, or,
where in 3, 4, do the
dualities, try to convince,
correct, or challenge

(15:27):
the other one?

Fascinating questions.

Yeah.

Let us keep those in mind when we get to it. I'm
so tempted to answer right now, but I don't want to.

Yeah, no, I mean, I just find it. Yeah,
it feels like a process. I
would love to know.

I should also point out
the hamlets are one person,
so when one is speaking, they're very aware that
they're speaking on behalf of the whole.
There's not A lead? There's not a lead. Hamlet and, a
subsidiary, supportive Hamlet. They are
both Hamlet. Just taking different

(16:10):
approaches. Different parts of his personality are coming
up.
Other thoughts or do we
want to jump in? What do we want to do?

>> Max (16:26):
I don't know if I missed something
in the preparation
information, but am I the reason
side of Hamlet, the logical side? I wasn't sure which
one I was.

Let's have a conversation about that. whenever I
try to describe it, I say that one is
more impulsive,
more direct, more
passionate, and the other one is more passive,
more reflective, introspective.
I have never used the word. The word

(17:02):
logical, and I don't think that applies. What
do you guys think? Max and Charlotte.

>> Max (17:09):
I mean, I've been talking before.
I'd like to hear what Charlotte has to say, if you don't mind.

I don't think it's a. I don't think it's a logic thing, but I could be wrong. I want to
know what you guys think.

>> Max (17:24):
Well, the conversation around duality, made
me think of, like, whether or not they want two
different things or the same thing. And what
I'm of the opinion of at the moment is that
they maybe want two very different things. And that's
what's caused this split in the
essence of Hamlet. And, like,

(17:44):
I think one might want
resolution and peace and order and justice. Because
in the face of this injustice
and this confusion,
there's, I think, an instinct to
try to pursue peace and,
like, right the wrongs of the world. And then the other

(18:06):
in my, Like, looking for my own place in
it. Wondering if the other side of Hamlet is
seeking. Like, when you just want to tear the
world down and light everything on fire. And, like, if the world's
chaos, then I will be chaos. And
that's kind of the essence of what I'm thinking.

I think that's closer to it. I think one of
them will overthink something and the other one will just get
right to the point. One of them will say, you know,
you were. I would like to have a conversation with you about how
unkind you were to me. And the other one will say, fuck you.
I'm pissed off.

You know.

Sharp your thoughts.

Yeah. I think the.
The. The fact that they're so opposite
and yet in the same body creates the
tension of. Not
apathy. Inertia.

Yes.

>> Cassie (19:03):
Right.

The. The crux of the play is that he doesn't do what
he's supposed to do. He never does it
until, you know, it's sort of forced on him. And
so that inertia is the. Is the sort of
the eye of the storm. And so he spends this entire
time fighting as much with himself as with everybody
around him. and I

(19:26):
think there are moments where they come together and there, there's. There's that,
like, calming piece of
like. And now we found a way forward.
Nope, we didn't. Oh, God. Okay, go back. You
know, and. And so
the madness question. I don't know how to answer.
Because mad people never think they're mad.

Correct.

So if
he. He wouldn't think he's mad. But of course,
this behavior might exhibit as they
all see. Right. As they all think outward,
show, that he is.
I do like the idea sometimes that they, if
they just found consensus, it would be the peace that

(20:10):
he's seeking. And so I do think there is a
rational, even on. Because I'm the passionate
one here. Right.
I do think there are, there are, there's that need, but it
gets overridden constantly by the driving force.
So.

Overridden. Dd
not written tt yes,
overridden. I want to say
something else. The two hamlets are not always
this far apart. Sometimes
they're here.
Oftentimes when they're talking to their mother on the

(20:47):
bed, trying to convince her of what she's done, they're like, here,
but they just. They still speak differently. Same
words. They just speak differently.
And sometimes they're here, and sometimes they're here.

Exercise half the time it's which tactic. It's a tactic.
Exercise half the time which tactics get what we want.

Yes, exactly.

Which is a theme that's reiterated in the play and
oftimes what
garb or what visage you put on
as opposed to what else is happening.
It's referenced so many times, is
what's the real and what's the fake? Or what's the,
I wonder, you know, does he

(21:29):
regard his own duality as
false? Because he calls
false to,
the different faces of Ophelia, he calls false
to his mother, he names false his
uncle. so
is he,

(21:50):
existentially in this
scene as you in your mind, is he an
actual version
of the. The
falseness maybe that he sees
in the world,
has that driven him apart from himself?

And how. And if so, or if not, how
does his anticipation
fit into the answer to that question?

Right.

Oh, Love this shit. I love it. Cassie,
any thoughts or do you want to dig in?

>> Cassie (22:30):
I'm just ending what all you were saying, big time. I
think something that I'M curious about as we explore
is to make sure that both of our hamlets
still feel like they have the full
scope of their own emotions to play with
and that we don't feel like we're boxing people
into like certain emotional colors of like, you only get

(22:50):
blue and you only get red. I wonder when
the, more reflective Hamlet is
fiery and when the more direct Hamlet is a little
bit, I don't know, has, has more of an
introspective quality and I'm excited. Or those
colors in between all of this
duality that we have.

See what I mean about how you all are smarter than me? That's what this
meant when I said they're not always here. Sometimes they're here. The
fiery one can be calm sometimes and
the reflective one can be passionate sometimes. We'll
find it. It's exactly it.

>> Max (23:23):
The yin and yang. Both can be the other.

I want to make two slight little adjustments. Everyone look
at your scripts, please.
in the Claudius is praying part three, three
line, my line 96.
is that right? Yeah, I have it currently. I
have Charlotte saying, or the

(23:50):
incestuous pleasure of his bed. I came a swearing.
And then Max coming in. Let us give Max that
whole line 96. So Charlotte says, or in the
incestuous pleasure of his bed. And Max says at game
a swearing or about some act. Blah, blah, blah.
Cool.

Wait, say that one more time. Sorry.

the. The line 96 that starts with at
game a swearing.

Yep.

For Max to the front of that line. Okay, so
Charlotte says, incestuous pleasure of his bed. And then
Max says at game of swearing all the way down
to when Charlotte says, and that his soul may be as
damp.

Right.

>> Max (24:29):
I wonder if I'm looking at a different script because
my line 96 does not say that.

Are you looking at the ones with the Cs and the Ms? Yes.

3.

3. I'm sorry, look at 33 where the Claudius is
praying.
The top.

The very first page.

>> Max (24:50):
Oh, first page. Okay, thank
you.
okay, so M. M comes in at the top of
that line.

Yeah. At game of swearing.

>> Max (25:02):
Okay.

and in three, four,
line 41,
let us. Oops. Let us give.
What did I want to do here?
Let us give Charlotte that
whole line. Leave wringing of

(25:26):
your hands. Peace, sit you down and let me wring your
heart, for so I shall. Wait, am I saying that right?
No. I'm sorry. Let's give Charlotte. Leave wringing
of your hands, peace, sit you down.
And then Max says, and let Me wring your heart for so
I shall. And we continue as Mark.

(25:49):
Thank you, by the way.

And Charlotte picks up if damned custom.

Right. Correct.
By the way. All of these are up for debate and change.
We can stop and you can say. Well, I don't. I don't think I
would say this line. Can I say this line? That's fine.
We can have a conversation about.

(26:16):
Shall we read
shadow it? I'll do Claudius and
Polonius,
everybody. Good. And we can stay on
camera. Oh, The
final week, there is an audience. some.

(26:37):
I've seen times when it's only been two or three people. And I've seen
times it's been nine people.
but it's not.
Nathan's listening right now, and he's gonna. He's
yelling right now. He's saying, don't tell him it's a performance, Paul.
Don't tell him it's a performance. It's not a performance. But as a
director, I'm gonna sort of lean toward. Let's.

(26:58):
Let's tidy it up and let's make it sort of.
I'm not going to say the P word, but let's make it ready for people who are
watching. I'll just say that,
Okay, here we go.
Bow, stubborn knees, and heart with
strings of steel be soft as, ah, sinews of

(27:19):
the newborn babe. All may be
well.

Now might I do it, Pat? Now he is a
praying. And now I'll do it.
And so he goes to heaven. And so am I
revenged.

>> Max (27:37):
That would be scanned. A villain kills my father,
and for that I, his sole son, do this same
villain send to heaven. Why, this is
hire and salary, not revenge. He
took my father grossly, full of bread, with all his
crimes broad blown, as flush as May.

How his audit stands with who knows save heaven?

>> Max (27:58):
But in our circumstance and course of thought, Tis heavy
with him. And am I then revenged to take him
in the purging of his soul when he is fit and
seasoned for his passage?

No.

>> Max (28:09):
No. Upsword, and know thou
a more horrid hint
when he is drunk, asleep, or in
his rage.

That's you, Charlotte.

Is that.

Yep.

Okay. Sorry. That was a weird thing.
Or in the incestuous pleasure of his.

>> Max (28:33):
Bed, that game a swearing or about
some act. Thou hast no relish of salvation in it.
Then trip him that his heels may kick at heaven
and that his soul.

May be as damned and black as.

Hell, whereto it goes.

>> Max (28:47):
My mother stays.

This physic but prolongs
thy sickly days.

I warrant you, Fear me not. Withdraw.
I hear him coming.

>> Max (29:03):
Now, Mother, what's the matter?

Hamlet, thou hast thy father much offended.

>> Max (29:09):
Mother, you have my father much offended.

come, come, you answer with an idle tongue.

Oh, go. You answer with a wicked tongue.

I am now Hamlet.

>> Max (29:22):
What's the matter now?

Have you forgot me?

>> Max (29:26):
No, by the rude, not so. You are the
queen, your husband's brother's
wife.

And would it were not so, you are my
mother.

Nay, then, I'll set those to you that can
speak.

Come, come and sit you down. You shall not
budge. You go not till I set you up a
glass where you may see the inmost part of
you.

What wilt thou do? Thou wilt not murder me?
Help, ho.

What, ho. Help.

I'm now a rat. Dead, for a ducat, Dead.

O, I am slain.

O me, what
hast thou done?

>> Max (30:06):
Nay, I know not. Is it the king?

And bloody deed?

>> Max (30:13):
Is this a bloody deed?

Almost as bad would
mother, as kill a king and marry with his brother?

As kill a king?

Die, lady, it was my word.

>> Max (30:28):
Thou wretched, rash, intruding fool,
farewell. I took thee for thy better.
Take thy fortune. Thou find' st to be too busy in some
danger.

Leave wringing of your hands.

>> Max (30:41):
Peace, Sit you down, and let me wring
your heart. For so I shall, if it be made
of penetrable stuff, if damned custom.

Have not brazed it so, that it be proof and bulwark
against sense.

What have I done that thou, darest wag thy tongue
in noise so rude against me?

>> Max (31:00):
Such an act that blurs the grace and blush
of modesty, calls virtue hypocrite.

Takes off the rose from the fair forehead of an
innocent love and sets a blister there,
makes marriage vows as false as
dicer's oaths.

>> Max (31:15):
Oh, such a deed as from the body of
contraction plucks the very soul. And sweet
religion makes a rhapsody of words.

Oh, with trystful visage, as against the doom
is thought sick at the act by me.

What act, that roars so loud and
thunders in the index?

>> Max (31:37):
Look here upon this picture, and
on this, the counterfeit presentment
of two brothers. See, what
a grace was seated on this brow.
Hyperion's curls, the front of Jove himself.

And I, like Mars, to threaten or command
a station like the herald. Mercy, Mercury new
lighted on a heaven kissing hill.

>> Max (32:00):
A combination and a form indeed. Where every God did
seem to set his seal to give the world assurance
of a man. This was your husband.

Now what follows? Here
is your Husband like a
mildewed ear blasting his
wholesome brother. Have you eyes?
Could you on this fair mountain leave to
feed and batten on this more?
Ha. Have you eyes?

>> Max (32:28):
You cannot call it love, for at.

Your age the heyday in the blood is tame, it's
humble, and waits upon the judgment. And what
judgment would step from this to this?

>> Max (32:41):
Sense sure you have else could you not have
motion. But sure that sense is
perplexed. For madness would not err
nor sense to ecstasy was never so thralled.
But is reserved, some quantity of choice to
serve in such a difference.

What devil was it that thus hath
cozened you at hoodman? Blind
eyes without feeling, feeling without
sight, ears without hands or eyes,
smelling sons all,
or but a sickly part of one true
sense could not so woke

(33:17):
up.

>> Max (33:18):
O shame, where is thy blush,
alias hell.

If thou canst mutiny in a matron's bones,
to flaming youth let virtue be as
wax and melt in her own
fire.

>> Max (33:32):
Proclaim no shame when the compulsive ardor
gives the charge. Since frost itself as actively
doth burn and reason panders will.

O Hamlet, speak to me no more. Thou turn' st
mine eyes into my very soul.
And there I see such black and graind spots as will not
leave their tint.

>> Cassie (33:52):
Hey.

To live in the rank sweat
of an enceamed bed, stewed in
corruption, honeying and making love off
the nasty sty.

Oh, speak to me no more. These words like
daggers enter in my ears. No
more, sweet Hamlet.

a murderer and a villain. A
slave that is not 20th part the tithe of your
precedent lord. A vice of kings,
A, cut purse of the empire. And the rule that from
a shelf the precious diadem
stole and put it in his
pocket.

No more.

A king of shreds and patches.

>> Max (34:34):
Save me and hover over me with your wings,
you heavenly guards. What would your gracious
figure?

Alas, he's mad.

Do you not come your tardis to chide, that,
lapsed in time and passion, lets go by the
important acting of your dread command?

>> Max (34:56):
Oh, say.

Do not forget. This
visitation is but to whet thy almost blunted
purpose. But, look.
Amazement on thy mother sits. O, step,
between her and her fighting soul.
Conceit in weakest bodies strongest works.
Speak to her, Hamlet.

>> Max (35:21):
How is it with you, lady?

Alas, how
is't with you, that you do bend your eye
on vacancy. And with the
incorporeal air do hold discourse?
Forth at your eyes your spirits wildly
peep. And as, the sleeping soldiers
in the alarm, your bedded hair, like life

(35:45):
in excrements, start up and stand on
end. O
gentle sun,
upon the heat and flame of thy distemper
sprinkle full cool patience.
Where on do you look?

>> Max (36:03):
On him.
Look you how pale he glares. His
form and cause conjoined, preaching to stones,
would make them capable.

Do you not look upon me
as with this piteous action you convert?
Effects. Then what have I to
do? We'll want true color.
Tears perchance for blood.

To whom do you speak this?

>> Max (36:36):
Do you see nothing there?

Nothing at all, yet all that
is I see.

>> Max (36:44):
Nor did you nothing hear?

No, no, nothing but ourselves.

Look you there. Look how it
steals away. My father in his habit
as he lived.

>> Max (36:57):
Look where he goes even now, out at the portal.

This is the very coinage of your brain. This
bodiless creation ecstasy is very
cunning in.

Ecstasy. And my pulse is
yours doth temperately keep time and makes as
healthful music.

>> Max (37:15):
It is not madness that I have uttered. Bring
me to the test, and I the matter will reword.
Which madness would gamble form would
gamble from. Mother, for love of grace,
lay not that flattering unction
to your soul that is not your trespass. But
my madness.

Speaks will but skin and film
the ulcerous place whilst rank
corruption, mining all within in infinite
unseen.

>> Max (37:45):
Confess yourself to heaven.

Repent what's past, avoid what is
to come. And do not spread the compost
on the weeds to make them ranker.

>> Max (37:56):
Forgive me this my virtue. For
in the fatness of these pursy times virtue itself
of vice must pardon, beg, yea,
curb and woo for leave to do him good.

Ohamlet, thou hast cleft my heart in twain.

Oh, throw away the worst part of thee and
live the purer with the other half.

>> Max (38:18):
Good night.

But go not to my uncle's bed.
Assume a virtue, if you have it.

Not.

>> Max (38:27):
Refrain to night. And that shall lend a kind of
easiness to the next abstinence, the next
more easy. For use almost can change the stamp.

Of nature and either hold the devil or throw
him out with wondrous potency.

>> Max (38:41):
once more, good night. And when you are
desirous to be blessed, I'll. Blessing,
I'll, blessing beg of you.

For this saying. Lord, I
do repent. But heaven hath
pleased it so to punish me with this and this
with me, that I must be their
scourge and minister.

>> Max (39:04):
I will bestow him and will answer well the death
I gave him. So again, good
night. I must be cruel only to be kind.
This Bad begins and worse remains behind.

one word more, good lady.

What shall I do?

M no means that I bid you do.
Let the bloat king tempt you
again to bed. That, ah, pinch wanton on your
cheek, call you as mouse. And let him, for a
pair of reachy kisses. Or paddling in your neck
with his damned fingers, make you to
ravel all this matter out.

(39:42):
That I essentially am not in madness,
but mad in craft.
Twere good you let him know.

>> Max (39:52):
For who that's but a queen fair, sober,
wise, would from a paddock, from
a bat a gib such dear concernings
hide. Who would do so.

Be thou assured, if words be made of breath and
breath of life. I have no life to breathe
what thou hast said to me.

>> Max (40:12):
I must to England. You know that.

Alack, I had
forgotten.
letters sealed.

And my two school fellows, whom I will trust
as I will adders fanged, they bear the mandate.
They must sweep my way and marshal me to knavery.
Let it work. For tis the sport to have the
engineer hoist with his own petard.
And it shall go hard.
But I will delve one yard below their minds and

(40:47):
blow them at the moon.
Tis most sweet when in one line
two crafts directly meet.

>> Max (40:57):
This man shall set me packing. I'll lug the guts
into the neighbor room. Mother. Good night.
Indeed. This counselor is now most
stiff, most secret
and most grave.

Who was in life a foolish rating nave.
Come, sir, to draw toward an end with
you.

>> Max (41:18):
Good night, Mother.

I mean, it's.
Let's. Let's go to opening.
That's wonderful.
Initial thoughts, reactions.

>> Max (41:48):
In the conversation, earlier about
unity and divergence.
I found it interesting when there were long chunks,
that Charlotte was saying. Because I felt a sense of
kinship in my silence. In
stepping back and letting those words be said.
So it's interesting to note that.

Yeah, I noticed there were moments where
my Hamlet was losing the plot
a little. And the grief of the father
was much more potent than I realized. And
Max's Hamlet helped sort of solve
that. Where it's like, I can't. I'm gonna
go off the deep end. And. And. And your Hamlet would come in

(42:35):
and be like. And that was. It was the foothold
that my Hamlet needed.

Which is what happens to all of us, doesn't it, when
we're dealing with emotional things that
one voice will say.
I probably shouldn't say that out loud.
And if that voice is not there, then we do say stuff out loud.
And then we lose control of it. And we go, oh shit, I'm going down this road.
And the other voice has to step in and pull it back.

(43:05):
Fascinating stuff.

I wonder in,
colleagueship of what the two just said,
that it also might take a minute
for the audience's ear to land. So this
is not contemporary language or not
quotidian language, I should say. And,
the going back and forth,

(43:29):
quickly, too quickly, may
disable the audience in a way
that is maybe not
welcomed. Maybe
they need to follow a thought through
more and maybe the actors do, but I don't know about
their experience. I'm just thinking about my m

(43:50):
own.

Yeah, that's a very, very good point, especially in this
format. And I'll discuss with
Nathan how to address that,
if at all. But that's a very good point. On
stage it was easier because the place starts the first time we
meet Hamlet is with to be or not to be. And
Hamlet's alone on stage and everyone knows the speech and it's just the
two of them and everyone gets it pretty quickly. Oh, two people are playing the

(44:13):
same role. but in this format, starting with
this scene, it might not be so clear. So thank
you for pointing that out.
Other thoughts? Anything jump out at you,
Cassie? A couple words jumped out at me, but anything
for you. Yeah, get to them. We don't have to like deal with every single

(44:36):
one now. But if there are anything, anything that was really
alarming to you.

>> Cassie (44:40):
Nothing alarming. but I think much as
Kathleen just pointed out, kind of the nuances of having
two actors play on the same role, I think the only
moment where I, as someone listening to the scene and I
really was trying to like be following along, but also just
experiencing the energy in the
room. The only time I was uncertain was
when the ghost appeared because,

(45:04):
Charlotte's Hamlet at that moment is on like kind of
a roll. And then all of a sudden that rhythm changed
and Max picked up and in my brain I was like,
oh, did Charlotte Hamlet also see the ghost?
So I wonder how in telling this story
it's clear that everyone knows and that
Charlotte Hamlet has, has encountered

(45:24):
that. Because it's not an acting beat that exists
in, in this particular
text. Feels like something we have to invent for
ourselves because the discovery of that are the words
that Max is speaking.

and in this format we're not doing staging. So
in a theater the audience would see the ghost.

>> Cassie (45:45):
Exactly. so I think that was the
only moment that my brain was like, that feels like something to
figure out or to make some choices
around. But I enjoyed the conversation between the two
Hamlets a lot.

Yes, Max.

>> Max (46:00):
Oh, just to add to the topic of like
when the ghost entered, I noted
that when that moment came, I jumped very
quickly onto Charlotte's line,
tagging a king of shreds and patches. And I tried
to do it as if I was cutting my
other half off and like focus

(46:20):
and kind of like drawing their attention
to the ghost and doing that part
like quickly.

And I didn't know if like I got that
sense. There were a couple of moments where we,
we were symbiotic, like
we're together and then, and then there were moments of like focus,
bring back, come back or look over here. And that was one of the.
I got that. So thank you for that. But I, Yeah, I don't I don't know how
to make a audience who can't see the

(46:47):
script or the.

>> Cassie (46:48):
Ghost and I don't know that there is anything to do
about it. And I don't. Yeah, I don't think even
I'm directing for any change to happen.
But rather articulating that, it struck me, oh,
there's a moment where we've created a problem
for ourselves that doesn't exist in the play.
But I thought the energy exchange between the

(47:09):
two Hamlets was really fun and I loved the moments where you were
hot on each other's tails and, and then the moments where there was space
in between. It felt very natural. I'm with
Paul. An audience could watch this like
at 9pm and they would see something
interesting, let alone with the many hours we have
to dissect it. It's very exciting.

Question comes up for me. Is, is
there a time when both, the both
of the Hamlets share
a line or a thought?

I've thought about that endlessly for years and I keep
coming back to know the only one
that they share, they don't actually say it together, but they share
is, and am I then revenged
to send him to heaven, Blah, blah blah.
And it is Max's Hamlet trying
to get Charlotte, Hamlet to hand him the sword.

(48:03):
Am I then revenged if I do this? And she
reluctantly goes, no. And M. He says no,
it's really only one no that's written. But I
took a little liberty there. And he says
no, takes it from her and goes, up sword and know thou
more hard head.

>> Max (48:20):
And then I also see there's a. On
him, on him where one Hamlet echoes the other.

Yes. Now actually both of those are written.
And you all can stumble over each other with those two and play them any
way you want.

Yeah. It's another trick of
zoom, though, is that two people speaking at the same time will
blitz out speakers.

So. Yeah. By the way, Charlotte, your sound went out a little bit
in the middle of it. I don't know why.

Well, there might be a storm outside. I, don't know.

Yes, three of us, but I don't know what
you. Well, I don't know what's going on on the West Coast.
And Kathleen, I don't know what's going on in New York, but we're having a bit of a
rainstorm right now. Before I came on, the
power went out for, like, three to five
minutes in my neighborhood.

>> Max (49:07):
Oh, wow.

what was I going to say? Yes, speaking over each other doesn't work on zoom.
That is absolutely correct.

>> Max (49:16):
there's a setting for that.

Well, I'm not even going to worry about it. okay.
And I'm going to come up with a way to help with the ghost thing. Maybe
we do a sound effect if Nathan will allow me to do that.
Or maybe you both gasp because I thought
of if you turn and look now you're not looking at your script, and you might get lost and
we slow down, and I don't want that.

>> Max (49:37):
I was thinking of a different approach I could give to that
cutoff that might give a different energy to the beat change.

Okay. When we get back to it. Well, try it. Sure.
I could do a, you know, a Vincent Price
impersonation, which would make it obvious that there's a
ghost. No, I'm kidding.
So let's talk about this opening
soliloquy. I love it.

(50:08):
we have concerns about length, so we
may not do it on the last week,
but I just timed. What we just read was 14 minutes.
so I might
speak to Nathan and negotiate with
him to see if we can leave it in, if you all want to. And

(50:30):
by saying that in a format where
you can hear me, I've begun the negotiation. but I
wanted to ask the two of you, Hamlets,
do you need that as a springboard into
3, 4. Do you like the
Claudius bit to
help set the mood, as it were? Set

(50:51):
the conceit, the convention of
the two Hamlets?

Right now, I'm agnostic, but it would be interesting
to note whether Kathleen, your concern, which
is real, the. The concept.
We get a bit of time to get it.
And would that be much m. More jarring
if we just start with. I've Warranty. Fear. Fear me not.

(51:18):
You know, I, I don't know the answer to that.
I think as an actor. Yeah, we always want more words to say.

So that was one of the reasons
I put it in, was to give the
listeners a chance to figure out, oh, it's. It's
one Hamlet by two people. I also like
it to, to help US slide in 2,
3, 4. Just coming out of almost killing
Claudius and deciding not to and having.
Taking that frustration with us

(51:48):
into the. Into our mother's chamber.

Right. Because like I was reading today, like,
there's no evidence that Gertrude knows
that her first husband was murdered. There's like no evidence of it. She
doesn't know. So for him to walk in there and have
these fucking assumptions
and this anger and this
bile is of course

(52:11):
she's blindsided, you know, and so
this lays that groundwork of like convincing
yourself that Gertrude knows when she. It's not
fair. She doesn't.

But, But it makes sense that Hamlet would convinced
himself.

Exactly. That's exactly right. But yeah, it's not fair to her
that he walks in there and. And, and, and has convinced
himself so much that now he's blaming her for.

It, you know, and
his first line or second line
is not yet blaming her or,
or accusing her of knowing about the murder, but is
saying, by marrying his brother, you have offended him.

Right.

And offended me.

Right.

By extent, by extension.
So that sort of anger is justified and that sort of
blame is justified. But later on there is a sense that
Hamlet thinks that she knows.

Yeah, there's a. Yeah. I mean, the, the easy offense
to pin is the marriage. Right. Because everybody saw it. It was so public.
It was so over the top.

So quick.

Yeah. And so quick. So the. But the scaffolding that Hamlet's
built around it is that she must have known.

Yeah. Or where is she a part of it? Oh my
God.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I think what Gertrude is dealing
with from the top of the play till now
is handling the
understandable. I think from her point of view,
understandable anger that her son feels
toward her. And the acting out is inappropriate.
And that's what she's addressing at the beginning here.

(53:44):
He's acting out inappropriately in court.
And, Yes, it has been. Or hasty.
It has been an or hasty marriage. I think she's
not a Lady Macbeth. I don't think she plots and
plans. I think she's in lust with her brother
in law. And, There are many reasons why that could be. I think
she,

She.

What he calls to mind here for her
is, regret
that,
he, feels so badly. And when she says
to kill a king, I think that's.
What do you mean? What are you talking about?

I think that's an easily justifiable
take, Kathleen. And there
are several
takes that are available.

be willing to explore anything you think, Paul.

One that I have thought of is.
It's possible. I'm not prescribing. I'm just saying
it's possible that,
she follows the rules of customers and her
husband is dead. She is a queen.
What else is she going to do?

Correct.

This man now wants to be king. So I must
marry this man plus him and continue
my duties as a queen. And now he is my
son's father. Because he's the king.

Yeah.

And I'm just going to follow the rules.

Yeah. And should Hamlet be the successor? And I don't, You
know, we can probably talk about.
I guess it is the brother that
takes the crown. But Hamlet
is not a warmonger in any sense of the
word. And getting him out of the way, I think she would support,
getting him off to Wittenberg or wherever as soon as possible.

(55:38):
because of the impending.

Because of the impending conflict coming to the country.

There are affairs of state to deal with.
And, you know, I have to go back and really study
how much they are aware of how close
Fortenbras is. But I think it's a
foregone conclusion from the beginning. Right. That he's
on his way or.

Yeah.

Yeah. And, he's. He's the. He
should be Hamlet, King Hamlet's son.
Because this boy grew up thinking
his father was cool beans and he had
no ability to follow in his
footsteps. He's a philosopher.
He's sensitive. And I think he might be a little

(56:19):
bit of a mother's boy, because
of perhaps the father being away
doing war for so long
they were together.

Could be. Who knows why. Cassie, you came off mute. Did you want to
add to that?

Oh, no.

>> Cassie (56:37):
I think you had cut to me at some point in the conversation and
then we had. We had veered away.

I.

>> Cassie (56:42):
Yes. And all of that. I think I
identify Hamlet as a mama's boy. I also was,
really struck by the ways that,
the. In this particular
telling of the story, it's Charlotte's Hamlet that is
kind of laying into Gertrude's decision to
remarry and talking about some of that, like
more. The more sexual aspects of that. And it. It

(57:04):
just hits differently. Like Femme to
femme in a way that I was intrigued
by. again,
anytime we do these things, new
elements of this rich text are hitting me. So
I, I was delighted by just the new
stories that that is telling,
which.

Go ahead, Max.

>> Max (57:25):
Oh, and just to piggyback off of what Kathleen said
about, the closeness between Hamlet and
Gertrude,
it. Listening to what you were saying, it
almost intensified the,
the background behind the feelings of betrayal where
it's like Hamlet has such high views of his
father that were probably instilled in him by

(57:48):
Gertrude when he, when the king was away and when
they were together. And like, Hamlet might ask, like, oh, what is
what's father doing? And he would tell me about these
grand deeds that he's done and all the people he's helping.
And that like, the reason why I look up to him so much
is that I thought we were doing that together. Like, and then
for you to turn around and leave me alone with these

(58:09):
memories of grief and just like
that, that was
intensified by your description of that previous
bond.

And I apologize for referring to Hamlet as a hymn
because it's not a, you know, we're,
it's not gendered. But I'm very
interested to, pursue and understand
what it is, working
with a female Hamlet and a male. H.M.
hamlet. although for this iteration, Paul,

(58:39):
it doesn't seem like necessarily
that's what we're focused on the fellow
male side of. Of the. Of them.

No, but I was, I, I
should have brought it up when we were talking about why I had this idea in the first
place. and maybe we can quickly just discuss it
now. I thought it was important to have female
energy and male energy. And I thought
because inside of us, all of us humans, there is
female energy and male energy. In some of us

(59:10):
they measure at different degrees, but they exist in all of
us. and I thought it was important to not.
I thought it was important not to invite criticism
of stereotyping. If the male energy
was the more aggressive one and the female energy was the more passive,
if the male energy was the ego and the female energy

(59:31):
was the insecurity, I thought that was important
to have the female one be the more
passionate, more direct one so that we would get away
from those, questions
of stereotyping. But it doesn't have
to be. What do you all think? First of all, do
you agree that it should be some female energy and some

(59:51):
male energy if we're going to split the hamlets? Do we agree on that?

>> Max (59:54):
I like that choice personally.

The women in this play are not
full of male energy. Gertrude and Ophelia are
both followers. They do not pick up the
mantle in and of themselves to make a decision.
They are followers. And perhaps
that is partly why this split
is happening here.

(01:00:18):
And that could be very interesting to see
us a. Ah, very dominant, for lack of
a better word, female energy.

>> Jamal Douglas (01:00:30):
Which would. Would add to the frustration
of not being able to achieve the goal.
You know, that would just. That would just ramp up
the passionate Hamlet's frustration,
being like, I'm still
can't get it done, you know?

(01:00:53):
yeah, I. I tend not to think of them as gendered in
a way maybe because I don't tend to think of myself very
gendered. But, all the time. But.
But, yeah, so I. I agree with the concept. I just don't know
if I agree with the words. But it doesn't really matter,
if that's what the common definition is. I think the.
The two of these hamlets ride this spectrum

(01:01:14):
and find themselves at different parts of it
throughout the scene. And.
Yeah.

>> Paul Nicholas (01:01:25):
Okay.
All right, let's go from top. I'm going to
invite you to. Let's. For us to work
on the
3.3soliloquy. We
may not do it when we're doing it on week four,
but let's work on it.

(01:01:50):
I would say, maybe I only need
to say this to launch us into it.
That Charlotte, your
Hamlet could. This could be more
opportunistic. Like, you were walking
by and you saw him and you went, holy
shit, here's

(01:02:10):
a chance. And you grab the dagger
from wherever it is or the sword or whatever it is,
and you go at it like you're actually going to do it,
like you're really going to do it.
And I would say, max, try
using the word that. That would be scanned.

(01:02:33):
Try using the word that to say, wait,
when. This is a very difficult transition if you're going to
use the word that to stop her from driving the
thing into his neck. Because the.
Because what you're saying is

(01:02:54):
people. If you do that, people are going to say,
this is what it is. So that whole thought has to come out
sort of connected. It's. So it's.
I. And, let's have a conversation about it. If you guys disagree. I don't
think it's. That would be scanned. End of
idea. many people I've seen play it
different ways, and I think it would. It is that people will

(01:03:14):
interpret that to mean that this guy killed my
dad and I, his heir have now done
this. I think it's a one idea. Does
anybody have a different thought? Because I've seen it played where
people go that would be scanned and then
go on to the next idea.

The problem is. The problem is the
colon. Because in the right
the colon is the colon.
It's a stop or it's a new idea, depending if you're using folio
thinking. Right, so. So.

Well, the colon could mean as such. That would be scam.

>> Cassie (01:03:46):
Exactly. Yeah.

In our m. Modern sense it could. So that's my question is what is the
purpose of the colon?

I interpret it to mean as follows.

Okay. Yeah. That would help keep the idea going.

Yeah. And I
have heard good arguments for that would be
scanned. End of idea. Now let me tell you, let me give
you some backup data to that idea.

Right. Because wait, actually, I mean, I'm in the Folio now,
which I know you didn't totally use it and it's a comma after
scanned, so that's fun.
So yeah, just to be punctuation nerd.

And. And Cassie has an Arden and I have an
Oxford. Let's see.
And by the way, I don't think he would mind me calling
out his name. Charlotte. You know Gideon Max. I
don't know if you've worked with Gideon.

>> Max (01:04:35):
I don't believe so.

Is one of the foremost experts on Shakespeare and especially
this play. He just published his edition of this play
and he says the Folio is not really all
that reliable. He prefers the second quarto.

>> Kathleen (01:04:49):
Well, these Arden editors seem to be having
quite, an argument against this.

Yep. Do you have that
one?

>> Kathleen (01:04:58):
I have this one. And. And these, these two
Arden.

Sorry, not Oxford.

>> Kathleen (01:05:02):
Yeah. These two editors have a lot of argument,
with the 1982 editor and I
don't know that I believe.

Yeah. And that's the one Cassie has as well.

>> Kathleen (01:05:13):
I have an argument with. With these two.

Cassie, the one with two.

>> Kathleen (01:05:20):
Is this the newest one? I don't know.

>> Cassie (01:05:23):
Third edition.

What edition is that, Kathleen?

>> Kathleen (01:05:28):
revised edition. I don't know.

So in the Oxford, which is very folio
based, it is a period that would be scanned
period.

I have commas and I have colons. I haven't seen a period yet,
but I have six different versions of humans that I can look at.

>> Cassie (01:05:49):
Charlotte, which folio do you have?

I have the.

>> Kathleen (01:05:55):
This one's 2016, I think was one.

>> Cassie (01:05:59):
Oh, nice. I just got
nerdiest gift ever for Christmas.

The.

>> Cassie (01:06:04):
The new like 400th anniversary edition of the
Folio. They did a reprint and I got one
for Christmas.

>> Kathleen (01:06:11):
Oh my God.

Of the complete M works or of. Of Hamlet?

Complete. Complete works. Right. Cassie, it's the
folio.

>> Cassie (01:06:19):
It's the the folio, like they reprinted it
for the 400th anniversary in like beautiful and big.
It's over on my bookshelf. It's fabulous.

My, my. Well, Damon and our collection, we have
about six complete works and
then just Hamlet alone I think we have six or eight different. I think
it's insane. So I could find you every
punctuation justify this choice.

But

Depends on. It's just really what. What you want.

Well, I like. I'm
willing to give in. But I like
that would be interpreted as follows.
This guy killed my dad and I turned around
and killed him and sent him to heaven.

>> Max (01:07:05):
That makes sense.

>> Kathleen (01:07:18):
You know, it's interesting that how that
there is an argument. Yeah, there's an argument there and now
I'll do it. Yeah. But if I do it,
and so he goes to heaven, you know.

and also Max, I mean this. We're not stage. We're not on
stage. And you don't have the script out of your hand. But if it
could be while she is saying this,
I'm gonna do it. You start to process.
Holy. But wait a minute. If you do that, this might happen. Wait.

>> Max (01:07:47):
Yeah.

And then
one other little piece of direction.
I think you're trying to convince her when you're saying things
like, this is not
revenge. He took my father grossly. All his
crimes were broadblown.
and I think this may not work, but I think. Charlotte, you're saying.

(01:08:08):
Yeah, exactly. He killed my
father when he was. He did not get a chance to repent.
So how heaven views him right now, who
fucking knows, right? You're sort of
arguing, so let me do it. I think
that may not work, but I think.
Cassie, do we want to talk

(01:08:30):
about what in our circumstance and course of
thought means?

>> Cassie (01:08:36):
You're welcome to if you like.

Okay. Would you like to talk?

Yeah, I'm.

>> Cassie (01:08:41):
Yes. Anding.

As we go through, we should also be picking out words that
we just need to nail down what they mean and phrases.
But in our circumstance and course of thought.
I mean I have some notes on it, but yes.

>> Cassie (01:09:01):
Say I. Paul. I think I'm. I'm unclear of.
Of what you're asking.

What does that mean? And I think it means from where
we stand.
And from our understanding of
how this works.
Our father took all his crimes
with him.
They sit heavy with him because he.

>> Cassie (01:09:21):
Didn'T get a chance to repent upon him, my
father.

Right. So. So C.
Hamlet is saying, yeah, we don't know how his
audit stands at the pearly gates. And
M is saying true, but based on what
we know, it's. It's heavy with him.

>> Cassie (01:09:38):
Yes.

To the best of our belief.

To the best of our belief.

Yeah. To the best of our belief.

He.

This is what happened.

Right. So let's not take a chance,
I think.

Right. Because that's the common thinking that if you repent
before you die then you have a clean slate.

Right. And the, the baseline, the underpinning
of that point you're making is he may not
be getting into heaven because he was killed with.
Without repentance, without praying.

And he's got the.

We kill this guy now he's gonna go to heaven.
Is that's not revenge.

And Hamlet's got the very real proof of.
You've got a ghost walking around. That seems to me like a
not welcoming into heaven kind of guy.

There you go.

So it's gotta be right.

>> Max (01:10:28):
Like that's part of our circumstances. There's a ghost.

Yes.

>> Max (01:10:32):
It's not looking good for him.

So when you're trying to convince her maximum. I think that's what
you mean. You are right. We don't know how it stands but based on
what we know, it's probably not good.

>> Kathleen (01:10:45):
And then the up sword and know thou a more
horrid hint. So that
Max stops the
sword but doesn't remove it. Right.

up swords mean. Means put it up, put it
away.

>> Kathleen (01:11:01):
Yeah.

No, no, it doesn't mean hold up. It means put up
means sheath it.

>> Kathleen (01:11:06):
Correct.
So I'm just saying that Max
stops the sword being.
But then it does we were staging.

It, he would be putting it back in its holster in its
sheath as he's saying that line.

>> Kathleen (01:11:22):
Yeah.

Up sword. And let's, let's come back when it's a better time
to kill him.

>> Kathleen (01:11:26):
Yeah.

>> Cassie (01:11:30):
M. I also, I really love the repetition
of no. Paul, I think
that is such a clever use of both of the
hamlets and I enjoy too. We have
no as in no don't do it. And then right
after no as in to understand something
which just feels like fun playing with
those, those wide vowels in a way. That's very

(01:11:52):
juicy.

>> Kathleen (01:11:56):
Line 95 seems to set the stage
for what
Hamlet says to Gertrude. Take
him to bed.

And you know.

Absolutely. I think on that first
no, Charlotte, I think you're relenting.
He's saying so do we really want to do.

I'm answering the question, aren't I?

Yes, but in. You're giving in. You're realizing that he's right.

Yeah.

Are we really going to go through with this? And you're saying no? Oh, I
guess not. Fine.
and you know that that last line, Charlotte is too
Claudius.

Yes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

He says my mother stays.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like motherfucker.

Wait up, motherfucker. I'm going to get you in a bit.

>> Kathleen (01:12:46):
Yeah, yeah.

All right, let's rock it.

>> Kathleen (01:12:50):
Paul, I have one quick question. So it is
weird that the next scene
starts with I'll warrant you, fear me not.

Tell me why.

>> Kathleen (01:12:59):
Because she's responding to something that
Polonius has just said.

Should we put a line back in?

>> Kathleen (01:13:07):
I'm wondering. It's a question. Even if that
line is cut shorter, if for time,
it will come straight. Look, you look.
You lay home to him.

Okay, Cassie, while we're. Well, I
don't want. I want you paying attention to the scene. I was going to say while we're doing
the three. Three. If you
could figure out a way to squeeze that line in there. But I want you paying attention
here too, so we can all do it together.

I mean, is there something to adding the mother, mother, mother
from off stage again.

Instead of Polonius's line?

Well, yeah, but because I always read that, I'll
warrant you as an media res. So if there's
mother, mother, mother. And then we quick cut to Gertrude going, oh,
he's coming. That might justify that. But that's just
a thought I'm throwing out.

Yeah, that's not a bad thought.

>> Cassie (01:13:59):
Or do we.

Are.

>> Cassie (01:14:02):
Are we doing any business with having a Polonius? Paul, Is that a
role that you were planning to be reading
throughout?

Yeah. Either me or Nathan. One of us.

>> Cassie (01:14:13):
I think there was a. There's a world where
rather than having a scene change, so to speak,
this physic but prolongs by sickly days.
And then the queen comes in with Hamlet. Thou hast
thy father much offended. Unless we feel it's important to set
up all of the other like Polonius behind
the eris kind of details.

Oh, that's right, because we never say it, do we?

Mm

And we've never done stage directions in these readings, have
we, Charlotte?

We did a Trouble at the Lighthouse. We did. We had a couple.

>> Cassie (01:14:50):
I don't know that play the way you just
Mentioned Trouble at the Lighthouse.

With the Virginia Woolf. It was an adaptation of the
novel. It was really thorny. It was
very.

>> Kathleen (01:15:01):
It was.

I did it two of these
ago. For me, at least. it was very interesting.
It was an adaptation by the director.

Oh.

But, yeah, we did have some stage directions read in that.

>> Kathleen (01:15:14):
So I have a quick suggestion that.
Sorry. That if, the former
scene is ended and
34 begins with A. Will come straight.
I'll silence me even here. Pray you
be round I'll warrant you,
fear me not. Mother. Mother. Mother.
Withdraw. I hear him coming.

I think the fact that you say withdraw
is enough to know that he is hiding. And
maybe we can read a stage direction or two. But I think I prefer
he will come straight. Look, you lay home to him.

>> Kathleen (01:15:48):
Okay. I'll warrant you, fear me not.

Yeah.

>> Kathleen (01:15:51):
Pray and then pray you be round I'll warrant you, fear me not. I don't
know if you want to scan it properly.

Yeah. We're gonna have a whole rehearsal on scansion. Because
this scene will take it. We'll need
it.

>> Kathleen (01:16:04):
We'll come straight.

Let me look at that later. Let me look at that later.

>> Kathleen (01:16:06):
Pray you be round. that's a.

That's a good point. That it might help us to jump into the nice
scene.

>> Kathleen (01:16:12):
Yep.

But I don't want to be on camera. I just wanted to do the Polonius and
Claudius and the ghost stuff off
camera.
We'll see. We'll work it out. Let's do this little
bit.
Okay.
Oh, sorry. I have a line.

(01:16:37):
Sorry. You're welcome.
Bow stubborn knees, and heart
with strings of steel be soft as sinews of the
newborn babe. All may be
well.

Do it now. He is a praying. And now
I'll do it. And so he goes to heaven, and so am I
revenged.

>> Max (01:17:00):
That would be scant. A, villain kills my father. And for
that I soul's son do this same villain send
to heaven. Why, this is hire and
salary, not revenge. He
took my father grossly, full of
bread, with all his crimes broad blown, as flush
as May.

How his audit stands, who knows save.

>> Max (01:17:21):
Heaven, but in our countenance, but in our
circumstance and course of thought. Tis heavy with him,
and am m I then reveng'd to take him in the
purging of his soul when
he is fit and seasoned for his passage?
No, no.

(01:17:42):
Upsword, and know thou a more horrid
hint.

When he is drunk asleep, or in
his rage, or in the incestuous pleasure of his
bed at game a.

>> Max (01:17:55):
swearing or about some act that has no relish
salvation in it. Then trip him that his
heels may kick at heaven and that his soul.

May be as damned and black as hell.

>> Max (01:18:06):
Where to it goes, My mother
stays.

This physic prolongs thy
sickly days.

I'll.

>> Kathleen (01:18:18):
Warrant you, fear me not.

No. Hold. that's. Yes. What do y' all think?

>> Max (01:18:25):
Yeah, it felt good.

Couldn't we find jobs where we just, like, read Shakespeare all
day long?

We'd have to live in a different country, I'm afraid.
Sweden, where they give a. About
the arts.

Yeah.

>> Kathleen (01:18:46):
Denmark.

Charlotte's probably heard me say this before. I worked with a Norwegian company once
that came over here to do a play. off Broadway at
59 East 59. And they said to
us, you put up a play in four
weeks. And we're like,
yeah, sometimes three. Why? How long does
it take you? They said, well, first of all, we workshop it for six months

(01:19:13):
and then we rehearsed for six weeks
and then we run for two or three months. I'm like, what? Because
it's all government subsidized and they get paid by the.
Great.

It's now standard for three weeks. All the big theaters cut a week
out.

Yep.
Unless it's a musical. Right. Then you get an extra week.

Not even then. No way.

>> Max (01:19:40):
Then you have your union. Non union performers come in a week early
to learn the choreography.

Right. So we saved some money there. Right?

>> Max (01:19:48):
Yeah.

thoughts? Do we need to do that again? I mean, I think we've nailed
that. Yes.

>> Max (01:19:56):
That felt good.

>> Cassie (01:19:57):
That was really clear.

Yeah. Thank you both. That was very,
very clear. Oh, I keep forgetting
Claudius has a ending line. No, he doesn't. I cut it.
Oh, that's right. Where he's like,
no, it's that my. My thoughts fly up. My
words remain below.

Yeah.
Could have done it right there. Didn't.

>> Max (01:20:22):
It's like your prayers are hollow.

in my production, by the way, that is a little
bit long to get to intermission. But that's intermission.
The one helmet is like this. And now I'll do it.
And now my revenge. Blackout.

The last production I did, we did it
the intermission there too.

Yeah, yeah. And then when you come back and go back to that point and then you
catch.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

It's a long way to go to get to intermission, but. But it's so worth
it.

Well, it depends on the cut, but yes.

Yeah.

>> Cassie (01:20:52):
M. It always depends on the cut.

Always depends on the cut. Okay,
now let's Talk about the start of three, four.
Let me try.
Let me try. He will come straight. Look, you lay home to him.

>> Max (01:21:09):
Okay, well, can I ask a quick
question of Cass?

You absolutely can.

>> Max (01:21:14):
when we're, like, listing off bad things, when that he can do
for us to kill him, when. I'm saying at game,
does that mean, like, when he is hunting or.

>> Cassie (01:21:23):
Let me look that up for you. I'll. I will scurry away and
do some research while you all are reading. Thank you for that question.

>> Max (01:21:29):
Thank you.

>> Kathleen (01:21:31):
See, Paul, is it worth it to say, he
will come straight. Look, you lay home to him. Pray
you be round. He's pretty insistent there.

Well, yeah, let me just say something here, and then
I'm going to come, to that.
See, I. I shouldn't speak because Cassie's
going to find the answer, but I thought it was like
when he's playing
cards, and. Which is why he is
a swearing, because he's playing cards with his friends.

(01:22:02):
But Cassie will find it.
yeah. How about this? Kathleen forget. He will
come straight, Let you lay hold to him.
Look, you lay home to him. How about this as an option?
Pray you be right round with him. Mother. Mother.
Mother. I, warrant you, fear me not.
What? Mother. Mother. Mother.

>> Kathleen (01:22:21):
Off stage, I know that most of our,
audience will know what's coming, right?
But most. Most, but,
just those words. Pray you be round with him. I'll
warrant you, fear me not. Withdraw here. I don't know if
I'm not sure that pray, starting it with pray you
be round with him is enough.

Look, you lay home to him. Pray
you be round with him. Okay, how about this? He will
come. Which is what. Which is what I think you said originally. So I'm
coming back to your original idea. He will
come straight. Pray you be round with him. I
warrant you, fear me not. How about that?

>> Kathleen (01:23:03):
Sure.
I don't know if anybody's worried about scansion, at
all, but,

I know one person's worried about scansion.

>> Kathleen (01:23:12):
Okay, so pray you be round.
Polonius's last half line, pray you be round is
finished by queen. I'll
warrant you, fear me not.

no, it's not. It's finished by Mother.

>> Kathleen (01:23:26):
Mother.

I'm sorry.

>> Kathleen (01:23:27):
I'm looking at the arden, so forget what I just said.

Yeah, but he, will
come straight. Pray you be round with him. As a full,
blank verse line.

>> Kathleen (01:23:37):
Okay.
All right.

You know, what I need to know is what does look, you lay home to
him really mean?

>> Kathleen (01:23:51):
I, think it means lay into him
about how his behavior has
been so abusive.

>> Max (01:24:00):
Observe him and examine.

>> Kathleen (01:24:03):
Lay into him. You know, really lay.

Let's lay that at Cassie's feet as well.

>> Cassie (01:24:09):
Let me answer Max's question and then I can hop
into what you're talking about. Max, thank you for bringing this up.
It is a, point of contention
between quartos and folios, so I'm glad that you've
asked this question. Apparently the folio. Folio implies that
we're talking about two activities, gaming and
swearing. Gambling and swearing.

(01:24:29):
But this text and the quarto. And we seem
to be a little bit in favor of the quarto here in this. In
this group talks about swearing as
we are gambling, which I think is interesting. So the two
are happening simultaneously rather than
separately.

I like that better because it, because it gives you a layer,
Max, to say
gambling, especially because when we know that when he
gambles, he swears, so that's even a better time to take him.
Because you know, swearing. You can't go to heaven if you killed while
you're swearing.

>> Max (01:25:00):
Right, because it's taking the Lord's name in vain.

Correct.

>> Cassie (01:25:09):
And then we were talking about,
home to him.

Yeah, look, you lay home to him.

>> Cassie (01:25:16):
Accuser, Reprove him thoroughly
is what I have for that.

Which. Which is sort of similar to pray you be
round with him.

>> Kathleen (01:25:24):
Forthright. The Arden says.

Well, Polonius is known for repeating himself, so that makes
sense.

>> Cassie (01:25:30):
That's the point, man.

are you putting the mother. Mother, Mothers back in? And if so, how are they? I
don't.

Don't like it. I don't really want to, but I was just gonna do it if
it would help us to launch the scene.
I'm not a big fan of putting them back in.
So if we can get away with. If we can get away with,
he will come straight.
And the back end of that line being

(01:25:58):
either look, you lay home to him or pray you be round with
him, which I prefer straight to. I'll
warrant you, fear me not withdraw.
If we can get away with that. I would prefer that.
Unless you guys want the mother, mother, mother.

>> Max (01:26:14):
I'm finding it.

Then we can split it up.

Well, I'm not married to it. I'm just. Because, Just,
you know, whatever helps.

I'll, warrant you fear me not has weird scansion. Anyway. I don't think it's
first,
but there is no prose in this play. But not in this
scene. I'll warrant you, fear
me not Beat, beat,
withdraw. I hear him coming. Beat,
beats. This is not. These are not five,

(01:26:46):
feet lines.

I think it's a. From the way I read it with Mother, Mother, Mother.
I'll warrant you, fear me not, withdraw. I hear him coming there. Boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom. It's like a tension builder.

Okay.

>> Cassie (01:27:02):
My arden offers that in the second
quarto, the line is wait
you rather than I'll warrant you, which
would make it scan.

Which would make what scan? Wait you out. Fear me not,
withdraw. I hear him coming. I don't think so.

>> Cassie (01:27:22):
If you pray you be round is half of a line.
Pray you be round gives you four syllables.
Wait, you fear me.
Wait, you fear me not. Like then we're like one off, which
would be, you know, 9s, but we're in iambic.

(01:27:42):
That gives you your one short
rather than several. Over.

Yeah.

And then we still have to find a way to make several.

>> Kathleen (01:27:50):
Over would mean that there's a high degree
of, of
emotionality.

Yeah. Let's deal with that when we
get to the scans and rehearsal.
So for today we're going to leave out the
mother, Mother, mothers, we're going to go. He will come
straight. Pray you be around with him. Gertrude
says what she says and we go right to now,
mother, what's the matter? Let's not sweat over scanson today,

(01:28:22):
okay?
So please, Hamlets, please bring with you into your
mother's chamber. What you just left that last
moment with,
which is frustration for both of you
because you had an opportunity to

(01:28:43):
take him out and you realize it wasn't the right time, but
you are processing that frustration in a different way.
Yes.

>> Max (01:28:51):
Matt, on the topic of the transition, because we're
ending on like my mother
stays. Is that like saying
mother's waiting, we're get back to our original goal.

Yes.

>> Max (01:29:03):
Okay.

You were on your way to her chamber when you saw him praying. You
walked past the chapel and you went, oh, look at that.
Look who's there.

>> Max (01:29:11):
It's cool too, because right before it's like,
to hell whereto he goes, my mother stays. So it
gives it like an interesting double meaning.

Wow.

Wow. I did not even catch that. That's
brilliant.

>> Max (01:29:29):
And it kind of feeds into the Mama's boy
track of like he goes to hell, but mom
stays. Like we protect her somehow.
Is what I read in that a little bit.

That certainly is in the overtones for sure.
But what you're saying is mom's waiting, right?

>> Max (01:29:53):
It's like, come on, let's go. It's like
your days are numbered.

And can you please, Charlotte, when you say that last line,
go. Why, I oughta. Can you do that?

I was hoping. I was hoping. I get that moment.

All right. Okay, here we go. We have 20, ah, five
minutes. I will read this
new line from the book, and if we're going to do it, I'll put it in.
You ready, Kathleen?

>> Cassie (01:30:19):
Ready?

There we go. He will come
straight. Pray you be round with him.

>> Kathleen (01:30:25):
I, warrant you. Fear me not. Withdraw.
I hear him coming
now.

>> Max (01:30:31):
Mother, what's the matter?

>> Kathleen (01:30:33):
Hamlet, thou hast thy father much offended.

>> Max (01:30:36):
Mother, you have my father much offended.

>> Kathleen (01:30:39):
Come, come. You answer with an idle tongue.

No, you question with a wicked tongue.

>> Kathleen (01:30:45):
Why, how now, Hamlet?

>> Max (01:30:48):
What's the matter now?

>> Kathleen (01:30:50):
Have you forgot me?

>> Max (01:30:52):
No, by the rood, not so. You are the
queen, your husband's brother's wife.

And would it were not so, you are my mother.

>> Kathleen (01:31:01):
Nay, then I'll set those to you that
can speak.

Come, come and set. Sit you down. You shall not
budge. You go not till I set you
up a glass where you may see the inmost part of
you.

>> Kathleen (01:31:14):
What wilt thou do? Thou wilt not murder me? Help,
ho.

What, ho. Help.

Come out. Rot. Beg for a ducat. Dead.

Oh, I am slain.

>> Kathleen (01:31:26):
O me, wast what hast thou done?
Okay, question.

Yes, ma'. Am. Rain is picking
up.

>> Max (01:31:36):
Oh, I can hear it.

>> Kathleen (01:31:37):
Do we want me to pick?
O me, what hast thou done? Right after
slain.

Well, I have it there as a shared line,
so anything that I've tabbed over.

>> Kathleen (01:31:49):
Yeah, no, I think that's good, because it'll lead the,
It'll put forth the action.
keep the momentum. It'll set the momentum.
Okay.

Sorry.

Because, Gertrude,
you don't need to hear
Polonius say, I am slain to know what has happened. You
know, who's behind the arras. And you saw Hamlet go over there and
stab him.

>> Kathleen (01:32:11):
Correct? Yes.

So you're already having that thought.

>> Cassie (01:32:15):
Right.

>> Kathleen (01:32:15):
And this sage direction says he kills Polonius
by thrusting the rapier before,
you know, if there's time. Yeah,
there's a minute. Not a minute. But if there's a.

No. And I think it is
far more, shocking
and frightening.

>> Kathleen (01:32:37):
Yeah.

That he just killed Polonius.

>> Kathleen (01:32:40):
Right.

Well, you're hoping maybe. You're hoping he's not dead.

>> Kathleen (01:32:45):
Yeah, we don't know yet.

Right.

>> Max (01:32:47):
Because it's just a bloody deed.

It's just a bloody deed.
Okay, so we got. We got that Far do we.
What's the consensus? Do we like starting the scene that way with
Polonius's line?

>> Kathleen (01:33:02):
I do. It just makes. To me. It makes sense.
It makes sense for the audience more,
I think.

>> Max (01:33:09):
Personally, I, like it because it establishes his presence.

Uh-huh.

>> Max (01:33:13):
A little stronger.

It does scan
the way it's written in my version, which is an
Oxford is weird. But
in this thing that. In this version, that
what we're reading on this page on the screen, it does scan.
I'll, warrant you. Fear me not

(01:33:53):
withdraw.
No, it doesn't. I hear him coming now.
I hear him coming now. Mother, what's the.
The matter? Yeah, that scams. Anyway. M.
I did say we're not going to worry about catching tonight.

>> Max (01:34:08):
May I offer a suggestion?

Yes.

>> Max (01:34:12):
would it. Would it work if it starts with
Polonius saying he will come straight and then cutting
to I'll silence me even here.

Not as well as pray you be round with him. We lose
the instruction to her to not let him
get away with any of his bullshit.

>> Max (01:34:32):
Well, that would still be following, correct?

Oh, you still want to say that? Because when
she says withdraw, I think that helps the audience to know.
Oh, he's not. He's going to hide. Right.

>> Max (01:34:42):
Right.

But.

>> Max (01:34:44):
Right. I was just thinking leading into that because you were saying he
will come straight.
Oh, you're talking about look late home to him.

Yeah. No, I pray you'll be wrong.
I'll silence me even.

>> Max (01:34:58):
Because if he's saying like he's coming, I'm going to be quiet and hide
here and then you be around with him.
So this is Polonius's idea.

See, I thought the operative word was round, not you.
That he's saying to her,
don't go easy on him. Be
sorrow. I thought that's what
he was saying.

>> Kathleen (01:35:24):
I feel that too, is that he's.
They're not arguing about who's going to talk. Talk to him
because he's expected in my closet. He doesn't
expect Polonius to be there.

>> Max (01:35:34):
Yeah, right, right. I'm not,
opposing that.

I think Kathleen can sell. Kathleen
can set with the word
withdraw. She can let us know that he's
going to hide. the. I'll silence me in here.
We can get with that one word. Withdraw.

>> Max (01:35:53):
Okay.

We can get. You should go
hide. And I'm. And I see that you agree
with me in one word.

>> Max (01:36:03):
Cool.

>> Kathleen (01:36:07):
Okay.

I am very cool at the beginning of this scene.

>> Kathleen (01:36:16):
Okay.

Nothing jumps out at me.
There was one.
There was one thing.

(01:36:38):
Max, I think the first what's the matter?
Matter is, I think the operative
word, which I don't mean. You don't need to
lift it up on a pedestal, but
I think that word carries the most weight in that sentence. And I think
the second one, the now, is the operative
word.

>> Max (01:36:58):
Okay. I guess, we
were summoned to her chambers, so I'm asking her why she's
called us here.

Right? Correct.

>> Max (01:37:06):
Okay.

Correct.

>> Kathleen (01:37:08):
There's also the use of thou and you,
which is very interesting.

Thank you.

>> Kathleen (01:37:16):
mother to son or child to parent, Parent to
child. but interesting that
she says, come, come, you answer with an idle
tongue. So it's an interesting,
shift there. And I'm not sure what the shift is,
but she's speaking to him more as
an equal to me, to my

(01:37:39):
thinking in that line. Come,
come, you answer with an idle tongue.

As opposed to Hamlet, thou hast thy father much offender. yeah.

>> Kathleen (01:37:49):
Thou, which is what a parent would say to a child.

Child.

>> Kathleen (01:37:52):
You is what a child would say to a parent. It's more
respectful.

There's also the other layer of queen and prince.

>> Kathleen (01:37:59):
Yes, that's correct.

So I think it starts off as royal lines
and then you as in I'm still your mother, don't
forget that. You know, I don't know. I,
yeah, I, I, yeah, I think.

>> Kathleen (01:38:12):
There'S, well, you, you is a, is a sign of
higher respect. So when she,
I'm correct about that, right? I think so,
yeah. So that when she says,
Hamlet, thou hast thy father much offended, she's
really chastising him. And I
feel that. Come, come, you answer with an idle tongue, is

(01:38:34):
maybe,
needing to level the ground
more. I don't know, we can
talk about it or. Doesn't even matter. I'm just, it would,
it came up for me when I was
preparing.

>> Max (01:38:53):
Thank you for sharing that. I didn't realize that you was more respectful
than thou.

I think that is correct.

>> Kathleen (01:38:58):
It is.

>> Cassie (01:38:59):
It's the opposite of what we think it is. So
I'm like, it's the reverse of what I think it should be.

That's exactly what I do. Every time I'm like, this makes more
sense. So I know it's the opposite.

>> Cassie (01:39:10):
Uh-huh.

>> Max (01:39:12):
Yeah. Because thou sounds fancier, but it's actually.

So, speaking of offended, Kathleen, I think
Gertrude is. With each line he speaks is getting
more and more offended.

>> Kathleen (01:39:24):
Yeah.

I think how now means what? What? How dare
you.

>> Kathleen (01:39:29):
Yeah, yeah. Ah.

And as, ah, she gets more agitated,
it gives Hamlet More license to
go at her aggressively and say, no, sit down and shut up.
I'm gonna talk to you.

>> Kathleen (01:39:43):
Great. That's great. Okay.

>> Max (01:39:47):
Such self fulfilling prophecy.

Yes.

>> Kathleen (01:39:49):
Interesting how the mother and son,
they know how to, neener
each other. They know how to prick each other.

>> Max (01:39:56):
Push each other's buttons.

>> Kathleen (01:39:59):
How they fight. Interesting.

>> Max (01:40:03):
And maybe they've never fought before. So
directly.

>> Kathleen (01:40:08):
Not like this, I think. Yeah, maybe.
Okay.

I don't think we need to go back. We
can pick up from
Nay. I know. Not. Is it the king? But, but, but,
Just for absolute clarity, I think. Think. I know. But
just for absolute clarity. Cassandra,
what is a rood?

>> Cassie (01:40:33):
The cross.

Ah. Ah.

>> Cassie (01:40:36):
A kind of.

Ah.

>> Cassie (01:40:37):
They call it a triumphal cross, which is what you
would see like very large and hanging up in a
church or, like some
religious place. can also be a large
sculpture or a painting of the crucifixion of church
Jesus. But I think it's most helpful
in. In this context. I imagine it being

(01:40:57):
the cross in the chapel.

>> Max (01:41:02):
As like.

>> Kathleen (01:41:03):
Where is that word, Paul, that you said?

No. By the rood. Not so 19.

>> Kathleen (01:41:07):
Oh, thank you.

>> Max (01:41:09):
Yeah.

Which. This is one
of the examples of Shakespeare's genius. The word
rude sounds like R U D E in. She just said
you have you forgot your place and you're offended your father.
I just love it.

>> Kathleen (01:41:22):
Yeah.
There's another word like that coming up that I'm.
That I love.

Yeah, but why, Max,
is he saying by the rude?
Well, I think like you said, by the religious emblems.
I have not forgotten who you are.

>> Max (01:41:44):
Right. Well, I think like you said, it's the double meaning of I
like. Like pretending to be
polite, but also with
that kind of bitterness laying over it.
It's like, nope, I. I know who you are. I promise.
Like I. I swear I know you are the queen and your husband's
brother's.

I think we will hear him.
Doesn't he say later on that,
What you have done
turns religion into a rhapsody of words?

>> Kathleen (01:42:23):
Yes. M. The act.

The marriage vows. Yeah.

Yes. From the very body of
contraction plucks the soul.

>> Max (01:42:32):
So on an even deeper level, just how the words
and symbols of religion are hollow in themselves.

Ah. Ah. I think so.
You are. You are.

The fact is that those things are still true.

Which things?

That she. That. That Gertrude is still Hamlet's mother
and that she did these things and that it was all
sanctioned by the state and by the church.

And he is saying your husband's. As
if he is still your husband, brother's
wife by the root, by the church.
That doesn't mean you need to, lift it up into the
sky, Max. But, but just know. Know why he's
going there.

>> Max (01:43:15):
Right. Tuck that in there.

Let us, go from.
Nay, I know not. Is it the king? Is that an okay place to start?

>> Max (01:43:27):
Sure.

So you've just run over to the arras where your other half
has just stabbed somebody. You don't know who it is?

>> Max (01:43:42):

>> Kathleen (01:43:44):
Oh, what a rash and bloody deed is
this.

>> Max (01:43:49):
A bloody deed?

Almost as bad, good mother,
as kill a king and marry with his brother.

Okay, hold please. Hold please. Let's hear it,
Max. If a bloody deed is not a question.
Got it. You were. What were you going to say? Think about what
you are going to say. You were
not. Your version of Hamlet would not say
as kill a king and marry with his brother, but your other half is going to
say it for you.

>> Max (01:44:16):
A bloody deed.

Or are you just looking at the body and seeing the blood and going, oh my
gosh, yes, you're right, it is a bloody deed. Or are you saying
a bloody deed? That reminds me of something else I really want to say
to you, Mother. I don't know. You play it, but it's not a question.

>> Max (01:44:30):
Thank you.

And Charlotte's Hamlet sees that as an opportunity
to say what I've come here to say.
So from the same place.
Am I yelling? Am I really loud? No.

>> Kathleen (01:44:47):
Am I?

I wondered if I am. You know, it's the cocaine.

>> Kathleen (01:44:50):
No. Okay. It's hard to tell, isn't it?
So frustrating.

Same place.

>> Max (01:44:57):
Oh, okay.

>> Kathleen (01:45:03):
Oh, what a rash and bloody deed.

>> Max (01:45:06):
Is this bloody deed.

Almost as bad, good mother, as
kill a king and marry with his brother.

>> Kathleen (01:45:14):
As, kill a king?

Ay, lady, it was my word.

>> Max (01:45:20):
Thou, wretched, rash, intruding fool,
Take thy fortune. Thou find' st to be too busy
is some danger.

Leave wringing of your hands.
Peace.

>> Max (01:45:34):
Sit you down, and let me wring your
heart. For so I shall,
if it be made of penetrable stuff, damned
custom have.

Not brazed it so, that it be proof and bulwark against
sense.

>> Kathleen (01:45:49):
What have I done that thou darest wag thy tongue in
noise so rude against me?

>> Max (01:45:54):
Such an act that blurs the grace and blush
of modesty, calls virtue hypocrite.

Takes off the rose from the fair forehead of
an innocent love and sets a Blister
there makes marriage vows as
false as dicers oaths.

>> Max (01:46:11):
Oh, such a deed as from the body of
contraction plucks the very soul. And sweet
religion makes a rhapsody of words.

Heaven's face doth glow with
trystful visage as against the doom
is foolish thought sick at the act.

Ah.

>> Kathleen (01:46:26):
me? What act that roars so loud and
thunders in the index?

Okay, hold, please. Lovely, lovely
Hamlets, during
this section, as you're going at your mother,
how do you feel about the fact that you just killed Polonius?
And are you taking that with you?

I think I'm annoyed. It's Polonius.

You're. You're. You're upset that it wasn't the king.

Yeah.
But that would have been the easy way out. And maybe it's not. It shouldn't be that
easy. I don't know. That was a thought that occurred
to me.

>> Kathleen (01:47:06):
but it's not, of course. The audience has just
seen Claudius and Hamlet together. So
Hamlet knows Claudius is not in the. You know what I mean? We don't
have the conceit of the theater to
tell us that. Couple minutes have passed. Do you
know what I'm saying is.

Yeah,
good point. Polonius is a man of state
and the chief advisor to the king. Yes. Am I right about
that? Yes.
And someone you had
affection for. For. And was endeared
to, even though you thought he was a fool? Yes or no? That

(01:47:44):
was the question.

Well, he's. He's. He's connected to
Ophelia.
That's probably.

But does that mean you have care and. And.
And. And, like, for him?
What? That was a weak word.

Regard.

Yeah. Do you have, any kind of affection for him, or you just think
he's an idiot? Because he is an idiot.

Let's say that I have regard for the
position.

But do you understand what has just
happened? Like, how much more you are now
by killing Polonius? This man.

M. Part of us does. I'm not
sure if it's my part. I mean, if you're
playing that, then. No, I. I think. My, my.
But I don't want to answer for men.

>> Max (01:48:31):
Yeah, I.
I'm finding so much frustration and anger
in those words. Thou wretched, rash, intruding fool,

you know what that means? I took thee for thy better.

>> Max (01:48:46):
Well, the. The station above the king.

I thought you were the king.

>> Max (01:48:49):
Yeah, yeah, right. But just the choice
of it being better, like, feels so
condescending.

And it also. It also, in the overtones. It's.
I. I may have just.
I, may have just helped you out. You know, it took you.
It has all kinds of meanings in it. But what he means is, I thought you were
the king. I thought you were a higher ranked guy.

>> Max (01:49:14):
Right. I. I get that. And that's true.
like, looking for an opinion in that is
like. We just had this whole argument about not being
brash and killing the king when he's
fresh, and. And now I've just
killed someone in cold blood. And I don't know

(01:49:35):
that he really has processed that yet, so he's kind of taking
it out on him and blaming him for being there.

So then maybe he's. Maybe try. He's not blaming him.
Maybe he's really, penitent or
remorseful that he feels.
Poor old man, you didn't deserve this
kind of vibe. I don't know. You can try it next time. We're short on
time, but you can try it next time.

(01:50:01):
And I would say just remember to take that with you when you're talking to your
mother. That. That has happened. So now the stakes have been
raised. And now getting
the message across to her is kind of more urgent now.

>> Max (01:50:15):
Right.

What? Last thing and then we'll stop. line
58. Are you okay with
cutting that line?
Heaven's face doth glow or this
solidity and compound mass with tristful
visage.

Yeah, it's. Yeah.

Sorry.

Just going back for a second. One thing that just occurred to me,
and we could just think about it, but it's the idea of
if we just didn't kill a guy because of all his
sins racking up.

Right.

We just. We just banked a big one.

Y. Yeah. Yep.
You didn't give him a chance to repent.

But then it's on our head too. We.

So you just did to him what he did to your father.

So. Yeah, I think.

>> Kathleen (01:51:20):
I think max of
solidity and compound mass,
against tristful visage.
It is provocative. I. I like the
sounds of those words.

Yeah, but I don't know. I mean,
solidity and compound mass. Cassie and I went back and forth and it just
means the earth. That's all it means. And I don't know that we need
it.

I mean, I have seen two
tristful subbed out with hurtful or something
else if you didn't want that crazy word in there.

Well, I like tristful, which means sad.
Right. But of.
Or this solidity and compound mass. I don't know. That
we. I think it veers us off path.
And I think your Hamlet speaks more
directly.

Yeah, I agree.

Charlotte, you weren't finished your thought. I don't think you were done with your
thought about killing Polonius.

No, just that I agree with Max's idea of the lack of
time to process. And. And so foothold,
foothold, foothold. Do this. And getting
into the mother. You know, I think
that's. That's part. I mean, it's all
sifting through and that.
We gotta do something there.

Yeah, I really like that. And Max, that
energy of, Charlotte's Hamlet going.
Okay, that's it. I'm gonna tell you what I came here
to tell you. That draws you over there. And you can't. You can't not
go because that's part of you. You would love
to stay here and feel bad for Polonius, but now
your other half is attacking your mother. And you got to go over there and

(01:52:57):
maybe you can help soften the attack
or whatever, maybe
join it, but you got to go over there and get involved.

>> Max (01:53:06):
Right at 9.

59. Friends.

>> Kathleen (01:53:11):
I will say, I don't exactly know what is
being said in this speech.

Which one?

>> Kathleen (01:53:18):
This one. That we just such an act that blurs the grace and
blush of modesty, calls virtue hypocrite.

Well, then next Tuesday. Oh, you're not here next Tuesday.
Tuesday the 30th. No, wait, what am I doing
Tuesday the 23rd.
We will.

>> Kathleen (01:53:35):
I will be. Yeah, it's the 16th that I will
not be here.

Right. So Tuesday the 23rd. Cassie will start
the evening with a, presentation on that
speech.

>> Kathleen (01:53:45):
Okay.

I'm joking.

>> Kathleen (01:53:47):
I'll figure it out. I just need to spend more time with
it. so does or
this solidity and compound
mass mean the dead body as well?

No, it means the earth. We could have a
conversation. Maybe it means the dead body, but I don't think so.

No, it just means.

Yeah. Yep. Okay, so it's
officially cut. All the other cut lines that have not been
taken away, we can discuss putting them back,
but let's. So that one is officially cut. Okay,
but Charlotte, if you feel it's your lines. If you feel strong, then you want
it back.

No, it's. It's too meow, meow, meow
for me.

I will say, Kathleen, I know you will figure out
this speech, but.

>> Kathleen (01:54:32):
Yeah, I will. I just need to spend a little more time with it.

Yes. The trickiest bit is the contraction
bit from the body of contraction
plus. Plus the very soul and contraction in this case, I believe
Cassie, tell me if I'm right means the contract of
marriage. Am I correct?

>> Kathleen (01:54:46):
Yes, it does.

Okay.

>> Kathleen (01:54:48):
Yes, it does.
Yep.

And turns religion into just a jumble of
words. It doesn't really mean anything.

Right.

>> Kathleen (01:55:01):
Okay. Right. So he's describing
her act as he sees it. Her act of
disavowing her own marriage to marry her brother
in law.

Yeah, yeah, got it.

>> Max (01:55:14):
What I heard in the contraction line was
kind of a metaphor of like birth,
like ripping the baby from a dying mother and leaving the
mother hollow. Like a rhapsody of empty
words.

Damn.

>> Kathleen (01:55:29):
Flux, the very soul.

You know, you could do any, you could pick any Shakespeare play
and do a hundred productions of it, and every single
time you'll find something new. You'll hear something
you never heard before. Brilliant. Nathan,
you don't pay overtime. Right. So we should really stop.

>> Nathan Agin (01:55:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you guys can stay till three in the morning, but you
know, your pay will be the same. So, you know, it's just, it's just up to
you.
Yeah, everybody's getting paid the same, Max. So whatever you're getting paid, know
that everybody's getting paid the same.

>> Kathleen (01:56:02):
unfavored nations.

Unfavored.

>> Nathan Agin (01:56:06):
No, no, this is a great first session. It was really
enjoyable here. Just the, the first, you know,
beginnings of the discussions here and hope, you guys had a lot of fun.
and, and yeah, so again, thanks so much for
being here this week and we'll see most of you, back next
week.

>> Kathleen (01:56:21):
and I'm sorry to be missing it guys.

>> Max (01:56:24):
You will be missing.

>> Nathan Agin (01:56:25):
It's called the Working Actors Journeys. You
know, people, people got things to do. So, you know, this,
this fits in hopefully around all the other stuff that
people have going on in their lives.

Live.

>> Nathan Agin (01:56:35):
So all good, no worries.

Thank you.

>> Nathan Agin (01:56:39):
All right, well, have a great week. and you know,
I'll probably try to put out, you know, a little clip here and
there of things so it might tag you on social media. And
feel free to share people, I find, especially your
colleagues and, and things that people love to see you working on
things or what you're up to. So share, with abandoned, if
you're. If the spirit so moves you.

(01:57:00):
All right, thank you, Nathan.

thank you everyone.

See you Tuesday.

Yep. Take care everybody.

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HAMLET (3.4) Week 1: "The Weight of Duality" - Confronting Gertrude | The Rehearsal Room

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}HAMLET (3.4) Week 1: "The Weight of Duality" - Confronting Gertrude | The Rehearsal Room