Titus Andronicus (5.2), Final Session: "Blood & Bonds" - The Rehearsal Room - The Working Actor's Journey

Episode Transcript
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>> Nathan Agin (00:00):
Hi there, I'm Nathan Agan and welcome back to the Working Actors Journey

(00:02):
rehearsal room. We have been working on
Titus Andronicus for this month. one scene
from Shakespeare's play. First time working on
this play. Really excited that we could dive, into this material.
And if you've been following along, I think you're
going to enjoy seeing where the actors
have gotten to, the artists have gotten to. If this is your first time

(00:23):
checking it out, if you're finding this, discovering it, and you're on week
four, go back, check out weeks one, two and three, see
how we all got to this, part of
the process. if you have questions and comments, please leave those
below. I'll do my best to respond to those or you
know, try to bring in some of the artists to respond to them. you know,
and keep the conversation going there. If you enjoy what you're

(00:43):
seeing, hit, hit, like hit. Subscribe. stay connected
so you can keep following us and seeing what other
work we put out. tonight may be the final
session of this workshop, but it is, not meant to be
a final performance. It's rather just a
continued work progress. This is just the next
step of where we are. If they kept doing table work, it might

(01:03):
continue to evolve. Certainly if we blocked it, it would evolve further
still. if we did a whole play and production, you get
the idea. we are, we're lining
up, new scenes and new projects. you know, we have some
Shakespeare on Deck and we have stuff from the archive
that you know, I'm trying to bring out, as often as I can,
you know, different playwrights and things like that. So

(01:24):
again, stay connected and you'll be the first to know what is going
on there. Looking into different ways that we can,
distill all. We have hundreds of hours of
content and looking at ways that maybe we can try to distill some of
that to help you get a jump on some of the things that
you might be interested in learning about or using some of this stuff
for your own, career and journey.

(01:45):
But of course there's no shortcut to just
sitting here and going through the discussions.
That's kind of the best way to really learn and let it
wash over you. but, we will continue posting
on YouTube for free all the weekly sessions for people
to enjoy. Be sure to subscribe to the channel. Like I said. Click
for notifications. You can still support the project

(02:05):
via Patreon. and get, early access to
some stuff for just starting at $5 per
month. thank you to some of our patrons. Ivar, Joan, Michelle,
Jim Magdalene, Claudia, Cliff, and Jeff. If you have
any questions again, comment below. And,
I will turn it over to our director, Nick. Hope
you guys have a great session. I'll be back, a little bit towards the end, and we can do

(02:26):
a little Q and A. So that's it. Have a great session. I'll be
listening in, as always.

>> Nick (02:32):
Thank you, Nathan. Hi, everybody.
Thank you all so much for being
here. Our final episode of Titus
Andronicus. It's been an incredible
learning experience for me, and I'm so grateful to work
on this play with, with masters such
as yourselves. And, I went down

(02:52):
a bit of a rabbit hole, this last week
with Titus and took, a look back
at Ovid and, read,
as. As much as I could squeeze
in on the subject. Read a lot of Sir Jonathan Bate
and, what he had to say about the Arden copy
of, his ardent copy of Titus Andronicus. And,

(03:14):
one thing that struck me was I, You know, when you. When you type
in Google and it gives a little AI
Sort of hit back of what you're looking up.
Well, if you do that with Titus Andronicus, about the third
sentence down, it says,
generally considered one of Shakespeare's worst
plays. And I was a

(03:34):
little bit taken back by this because it's right at the top of the
Google. And I was like, that's a bad press, bill.
So I thought about it for a minute and I thought, why?
Why is that? Because there must be many
articles on the Internet that are disparaging the
play for AI to come to that conclusion.

(03:55):
And I started thinking that, you
know, there's so much focus on the gore
and the absurdity of this
play. and while I was
researching, I read, there's a review of the production
that's happening right now at the Swan with Simon Russell
Beale. Arafa
Akbar from the Guardian. She said

(04:17):
in this review, in spite of its
bloodbaths, it's a play that glitters with
poetic richness.
And I realized that
there are some Shakespeare plays that I'll see,
production happening, and I won't
be particularly excited to run out and go see that
show. This is not one of them. If somebody's doing

(04:39):
Titus, I'm excited to see what they
do with Titus. But it's not. It's not to
see hands getting cut off or people Baked into
pies or anything. It's for Marcus's speech when
he sees Lavinia. It's for
the poetry and the.

(04:59):
It's a. It's a human
viewpoint. You know, the. The play deals with
humanity. It deals with violence in so many different
forms. It deals with revenge, with politics,
with humor, with sadness, and
a lot. And I think mostly with love.
I think that the play deals with a, mother's love,

(05:21):
and it deals with a father's love, and it
has romance, and it deals with love
of country. And, you
know, within this bloody mayhem, Shakespeare
brings to life. I was thinking of that Sting
song, how fragile we Are.
and I don't know, I mean, perhaps Shakespeare's hope with

(05:43):
this play was by the witnessing of this sort
of the insane and terrible things that we
can do to each other.
you know, the image of Aaron, this sort
of hardened criminal, pronouncing to everybody all
of the terrible things he's done, while at
the same time expressing the most

(06:03):
profound and purest love for
this little baby. And
that's the thing that strikes me about this play. I
think that a lot like
Ovid took a human viewpoint, where
so many viewpoints were from the state and from Rome at that
time. And

(06:25):
maybe this play can help an audience leave and,
help see the uncorrupted good in each other
through this terrible violence that the play
produces. I don't know.
I just wanted to
say why I chose this piece and

(06:46):
why I love this play. And I'm so
grateful to have wonderful actors like you interpreting
these words for me. Thank you so much. what
I'd like to do today is I'd like to perform the scene
twice, with two different casts,
and, maybe perform it once, talk about it a
little bit, perform it again and talk about it. And then we'll have,

(07:07):
some questions at the end that we can answer and,
that'll be that. so
I, I only have two notes from my actors, and I went back and
watched every performance that, that we've had of these
scenes and all the work that we've done. And I
think that we've created a structure that will
free creativity. Now I think

(07:28):
that, it's time
to let it live and it's time to take
as much time as we need with this text. We have the.
We have the freedom to not have a three hour play to worry about
with the pacing so we can let it breathe. We can
take some time on the full stops, if There's a question
we can really ask the question.

(07:50):
Every performance that you guys have delivered has been a
master class and I'm so grateful and I can't wait to
see what we what we can show up with today.
Thank you guys so much. Do you guys have any
questions before we get started?
Anything that you noticed about the play this week? I know you're all
busy doing several other projects at the time.

(08:11):
great, then let's start out
with. I have a cast list. I'm m
sorry, I know.

>> Jamal (08:18):
Random. Trying to get it. Yeah.

>> Nick (08:20):
Yes.

>> Miranda (08:20):
And Nick, I just wanted to thank you for for what you
said at the beginning to get us started. And thank you
also for for sharing the, the Guardian,
reviewer. I, I like that reviewer a lot.
I don't always agree with her, but I think she's very thoughtful
and knowledgeable. And my line about the British
reviewers is often they don't like anything. so I think

(08:41):
that's you
know, that the poetry was. And the beauty of the language
was speaking to her. So thank you for sharing that and thank you
for everything you said at the beginning of our
session.

>> Nick (08:54):
Yeah, it was really interesting to learn on how much
Shakespeare gathered from Ovid.
so Jonathan Bate was talking about how, oh,
Shakespeare when he was younger would have
found a wonderful translation of Ovid by
Arthur Golding. and apparently this is
just a very sort of lively and

(09:14):
well written translation of Ovid and they affected so
many of his plays. And they're a lot about
transformation. And this is looking at the
transformation. You know, he, he mentioned
that when someone falls in love,
there's actually amino acids and proteins and
chemicals in the brain that are changed forever.

(09:34):
So there, there is literally a
transformation that happened. Now Ovid would do it,
symbolically people would transform into a tree or
a rock or. Whereas Shakespeare
internalized it and, and was able to show us how
these transformations happened within the characters
on stage. There are some literal translations, like in
Midsummers, you know, the bottom turns in

(09:56):
to an ass. And but
most of it happens internally. And
it's such a, it's just a human
look at humanity, if I may say. Yeah, it
was, it's extraordinary how he was able to update
Ovid's writings and make
them accessible still to this day.

>> Jamal Douglas (10:16):
Could I just piggyback off of that.

>> Miranda (10:18):
Just with another scientific observation
following yours? And given that science is a little bit in short
supply these days in the public discourse, maybe that's
okay. The. The other thing that irrevocably
changes a woman's body is to have a child.
Fetal DNA continues to circulate
in the mother's body for the rest of her life, including
migrating to the brain, thereby proving what we all know, which

(10:40):
is that kids get into your head. But seriously,
since we were talking about how maternal
love, paternal love, are such strong
motivators and such strong forces in
this play, I just wanted to
follow up what you said, Nick, with. With adding that.

>> Nick (10:59):
Thank you. Yeah. And I think that, you know, last
week we had a fascinating discussion, it
was so interesting. About, all levels of
violence and humanity and race in Shakespeare.
And, I think that these are
conversations that need to be had. And that's why I'm grateful,
Nathan, for providing us with this. This place. I. You

(11:19):
know, I. I live. I. I live
in Hawaii. And there's no access to
Elizabethan, text,
of any kind, where I am. So this is a beautiful
outlet for me. And, I'm just so grateful to
be here. And I'm so excited that I get to watch this.
This, what's about to happen

(11:39):
and that I don't have to act this time. Thank God.
let me. I. I put a couple of casts together, if we
may. I'd love to do it once
with, Tony, I'd like you to play Titus the
first time, if that's okay. Charlotte, I'd love you to play
Tamara this time, if that's okay. And,

(12:00):
Jamal, Chiron and Marcus and
Angie, Demetrius and
Publius. And then we'll,
do it again, and we'll switch the cast up and
we'll give, the other two actors a shot at
Titus and Tamara, if we may. Does
that sound okay to everybody?

>> Jamal (12:20):
Absolutely. Let's go.

>> Nick (12:23):
Thank you so much.

Thus, in this strange and
sad habiliment, I will encounter with
Andronicus and say, I am
Revenge, sent from below to join
with him and right his heinous wrongs.
Knock at his study, where they say he keeps to
ruminate strange plots of dire

(12:50):
revenge. Tell him
revenge is come to join with him and work
confusion on his enemies.

>> Tony Amendola (13:01):
Who doth molest my contemplation.
Is it your trick to make me ope the door.
That so my sad decrees may fly
away. And all my study be to no
effect? You are, deceived
for what I mean to do. See here,
in bloody lines I have set down, and what is

(13:23):
written will be executed.

Titus, I am come to talk with thee.

No, not. Not A word.
How can I grace my talk, wanting a hand
to give it action? Thou, hast the odds
of me, therefore no more.

If thou didst know me, thou
wouldst talk with me.

I am not mad. I know thee
well enough. Witness this wretched
stump. Witness these crimson
lines. Witness these trenches
made by grief and care. Witness
the tiring day and the heavy night.
Witness all sorrows that I know thee well.

(14:07):
For our proud empress,
mighty Tamara.
Is not thy, coming for my other hand?

No, thou sad man.
I am not Tamara. She is M,
thy enemy and I, thy friend.
I am, Revenge, sent from the
infernal kingdom to ease the gnawing
vulture of thy mind by working
wreckful vengeance on thy foes.

(14:39):
Come down and welcome me to this world's
light. Confer with me of
murder and of death.
There's not a shallow cave or lurking place,
no vast obscurity or misty vale where
bloody murder or detested rape can
couch for fear. But I will find them
out, and in their ears

(15:02):
tell them my dreadful name,
Revenge, which makes the
foul offender quake.

Oh, art thou
Revenge? And art thou sent
to me to be a torment to my
enemies?

>> Miranda (15:22):
I am.

Therefore come down and welcome me.

Do me some service here. I come to thee, lo. By
thy side, where rape and murder
stands. Now, give me some assurance that thou art
Revenge. Stab them,
nor tear them on thy chariot wheels, and then
I'll come and be thy wagoner, and whirl along
with thee about the globe. Provide thee
two proper palfreys, black as

(15:50):
jet, to hail thy vengeful wagon.
Swift away and find out
murderers in their guilty caves. And when
thy car is loaden with their heads
I will dismount and by thy wagon
wheel, trot like a servile
footman all day long, even from
Hyperions rising in the east,

(16:12):
until his very downfall in the sea. And
day by day I'll do this heavy
task so that thou
destroy Rapine and murder them.

These are my ministers and come with me.

Are they thy ministers? What are
they called?

Rape and Murder.
Therefore call it so because they take vengeance of
such kind of men.

Good Lord. How like the Empress's
sons they are. and you, the Empress. But
we worldly men have miserable, mad,
mistaking eyes. Oh,
sweet Revenge, do now I
come to thee. And if one arm's
embracement will content thee, I will embrace
thee in it by and by.

>> Jamal (17:03):
Hm.

This closing with him fits his lunacy.
Whate' er I forge to
feed his
brain sick humours. Do you oppose me for
revenge? And Being credulous in this
mad thought, I'll make him send for Lucius his
son. And whilst I at a banquet hold him,

(17:26):
sure, I'll find some cunning practice out
of hand to scatter and disperse the
giddy Goths, or at the least
make them his enemies. See,
here he comes, and I must ply my
theme.

Long have I been forlorn in all for thee.
Welcome, dread Fury, to my
woeful house. Rapine and
Murder, you are welcome too.

>> Nick (17:53):
How?

>> Jamal (17:53):
Huh?

Like the empress and a son. You, are well
are you fitted, had you but a Moor,
could not all help thee afford you such a devil?
For well I want the empress never wags, but in
her company there is more. And would you
represent our queen aright? It were
convenient you had such a devil.

(18:14):
But welcome as you are.
What shall we do?

What would thou have us do, Andronicus?

Show me a murderer.

>> Jamal (18:32):
I'll deal with him.
Show me a villain that hath done a rape, and I
am sent to be revenged on him.

Show me a thousand that have done the wrong, and I
will be revenged on them all.

Look round about the wicked streets of Rome.
And when thou finds the man that's like thyself,
good Murder, stab him. He's a
murderer. Go thou with him, and
when it is thy hat to find another that is
like to thee, good Rapine, stab him.
He is a ravisher.
Go thou with them, and in the

(19:10):
emperor's court there is a
queen attended by a Moor. Well,
shalt thou know her by thine own proportion, for
up and down she doth resemble thee. I pray thee
now do on them some violent
death that have been violent to me and
mine.

Well, hast thou lessened us this
shall we do. But
would it please thee, good Andronicus, to send
for Lucius, thy thrice valiant
son, who leads towards Rome a band of
warlike Goths, and bid him come and
banquet at thy house. When
he is here, even at thy solemn feast, I

(19:53):
will bring in the empress and her
sons, the emperor himself and all thy
foes. And at thy mercy shall they
stoop and kneel,
and on them shalt thou ease thy
angry heart.
What says Andronicus to this device?

>> Nick (20:12):
Ah.

Marcus, my brother.
Tis sad Titus calls. Go,
gentle Marcus, to thy nephew Lucius.
Thou shalt inquire him out among the Goths. Bid him
repair to me, and bring with him some of the
chiefest princes of the Goths. Bid him
encamp his soldiers where they are. Tell him
the emperor and the empress to

(20:37):
feast at my house. And he shall feast with him.
This do for my love. So let
him, as he regards his aged father's life.

>> Jamal (20:47):
This will I do, and soon return again.

Now will I hence about thy business and take my
ministers along with me.

Let Rape and Murder stay with me, or else
I'll call my brother back and cleave to noting that
with Lucius.

What say you,
boys? Will you abide with him whilst I go tell my lord
the emperor how I have governed our determined jest?
Yield to his humor, smooth, speak in
fair, and tarry with him till I turn again?

I knew them all. They suppose me mad,
and will reach them in their own devices.
A pair of cursed hell hounds and the
damned.

>> Jamal (21:42):
Madam, depart at your pleasure. Leave
us here.

Farewell, Andronicus. Revenge
now goes to Laocon. Plot to betray thy
foes.

I know thou dost, and, sweet
Revenge, farewell.

>> Jamal (22:04):
Tell us, old man, how shall we be
employed?

I have work enough for you to do. Publius,
come hither, Caius and Valentine.

>> Jamal (22:21):
And I think you're on mute.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (22:27):
yes, I am.
come hither, Caius and Valentine. what is
your will?

That's my life.

Oh, shit.

>> Jamal (22:39):
So let's take it from Titus's line. Tut. I have work
enough to do for you, and you have leas coming. What is your
will?

I've just been acting away in science.

Oh, good.
I tell you what. I know thee thus I know thou dost,
and, sweet Revenge, farewell.

>> Jamal (22:59):
Tell us, old man, how shall we be
employed?

I have work enough for you to do. Publius,
come hither. Caius and Valentine.

Yeah.

What is your will?

Know you these two?

the emperor's sons, I take them.

Chiron, Demetrius, Phi PI.
Thou art too much. Deceive. The one
is murder, and rape is the other's name.
And therefore bind them, gentle Publius,
Caius and Valentine, lay hands on
them. Oft have you heard me wish
for such an hour. And now I, find it.

(23:36):
Therefore bind them sure. And stop their
mouths if they begin to cry. Villains,
forbear.

>> Jamal (23:42):
We are the empress sons, and
therefore.

Do we what we are commanded.
Stop them mouths. Let them not speak a word.
Is he sure? Bound?
Look that you bound them fast.

Come, come, Lavinia,
look. Thy foes are bound.
Sir, stop their mouths. Let
them not speak to me, but let them hear
what fearful words I utter.
O villains Chiron and Demetrius.
Here stands the spring, whom you have stained

(24:18):
with mud the goodly
summer with your winter mixed. You killed
her husband, and for that vile fall two of
her brothers were Condemned to death my hand
cut off and made a merry jest.
Both her sweet hands, her tongue, and that
more dear ah. Than hands, her tongue, her

(24:39):
spotless
chastity inhuman
traitors you have constrained
enforced.
What would you say if I should let you
speak?
Villains, for shame you could not beg
for grace. Hark, wretches, how I mean to

(25:01):
martyr you. This one hand
yet is left to cut your throat, whilst that
Lavinia tween her stumps doth hold
the basin that receives your guilty blood.
You know your mother means to feast with me and
calls herself revenge and thinks me mad.
Hark, willings, I will grind

(25:23):
your bones to dust, and with your blood
I'll make a paste. And of the paste a
coffin I will rear and make two
pasties of your shameful heads and
bid that strumpet your, unhallowed dam
light to the earth earth swallow her own
increase.

(25:44):
This is the feast that I have bid her to,
and this the banquet she shall serve it on.
For worse than Philomel you used my
daughter, and worse than Procne, I will
be revenged.
Now prepare your throats. Lavinia,
come, receive the blood.

(26:07):
And when that they are dead,
let's go grind their bones to powder, small,
and with this hateful liquor temper it, and
in their pace let their vile heads be
baked. Come, come, be every
one officious, bring out apron
O to make this banquet which I
wish may prove more stern and

(26:30):
bloody than the censure's feast is
so. Now bring them in,
for I'll play the cook and see them
ready against their mother cums.

>> Nick (26:52):
I just figured out what makes me feel so comfortable
about this scene. Is it I feel like Titus has been
so off balance in so many
scenes throughout this show. He keeps getting hit
over and over and over again. It feels good
to the audience to watch him take control.
It's like a. It's like watching a boxing match where one

(27:14):
fighter is getting pummeled in the first rounds over
and over again. And then he comes back finally and
fights his way back. And something really satisfying
about that. And Tony, I really enjoyed how you.
You brought it down to a very sort of
narrow place in the end. And it was
incredibly focused and, really
beautiful. Both of you, really, really beautiful work.

(27:36):
You know, I wrote down,
your tactics were incredibly
clear, and I loved that
because she tries so many different ways
and. And you hit each one of them on the note. There's a point where
she's kind of coaching him. You know, she
pumps him up A little bit. And, it's very,

(27:56):
very. It's almost the happiest scene in the show.
It's like these two guys are getting along great.

Well, they're.

>> Nick (28:03):
They're. They're.

They're aligned strangely.

>> Nick (28:07):
You know, it's really the same thing. It's really
odd and satisfying. It's so strange.
Your side was beautifully played in this medium, too. I
love how you went close to the camera and kind of gave us a little
secret. It was. It was lovely. That's a nice. I'm going to
remember that. That was great.
M. And Angie, you've got a career in
silent film for sure. We. We understood

(28:29):
every beat. I saw it. I saw
it.

and that wonderful voice I used.

>> Nick (28:38):
Tony, you're the joy.
There are moments of joy that. That you were
releasing that. That it gave Titus
this power. You know, we finally get to see him
sort of, I got the sense from this reading that,
you know, Titus is incredibly
sane. Like, he. He just. To
me, it. It seems.

(29:01):
He seems so powerful. It's. It's almost like
we finally get to see the general that we've heard about,
you know, throughout the earlier scenes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Nick (29:11):
And, Yeah, what was it? The, Oh, he.
He even threatens Tamara
in the middle when he says, lest I call my brother
back.

Oh, yeah.

>> Nick (29:21):
I found that really interesting. This time you're like, you know, you're gonna
leave them here, or else I'll cancel the whole thing, and you're gonna have
to do. I. That really stood out to me, that
moment. This time that's very strong. And she's like, oh,
okay. It was. Yeah, lovely
work.

Lovely work. You know, it felt. I
just personally, it felt the,
The, The material is not something
you can casually do in a kind of way. It's not like you left
it for a week and come back and you're gonna just step in.
So. I felt like I didn't really catch up to it

(29:57):
myself, personally. I didn't catch up to it and was
the m. The text was ahead of me. The text
was driving me, as opposed to me using the
text. And then gradually, I
felt all of a sudden. So by the end, I felt like
I was the one. But previous to that, I had. I had
what I call Shakespeare breath.

>> Nick (30:18):
You know, you got to warm up before a game.

Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, it is.

>> Jamal (30:23):
It's.

It's daunting material. It's not, You know,
It's easy to be humiliated, but
you're humble. you know, the demands. I
mean, it's. It's the reason. I mean, I. You know, I
often think, why.
I mean, we know the obvious reason why they teach Shakespeare in acting
class, why they use Shakespeare. But it is actually

(30:46):
that. Using him. Because the
demands of the poetry and
the behavior and all that are
combined in that. Because, I mean, you
know, unfortunately, no. Very few actors
can earn a living doing Shakespeare these days, you know,
Very few. so, consequently, why do

(31:06):
they continue, doing it? I think the reason I do it
when I teach is because I think, you know, I tell you what.
Oh, you're very good with two balls juggling.
What happens if we add four? Two more balls? How are you doing
that? You know what I mean? And so it's, that kind of
thing. And I felt a little bit of that in the first half of
the scene. I thought, oh, boy, this is way ahead of me right

(31:27):
now. But it happened.

>> Jamal (31:31):
Requires you to be present as. Ah, well, because, like
all the language and everything, you have to be present. And
I think that I tell my students all the time, like, you can
always go back to your breath. You can always
go back. You can always come back to the present moment. And I think
that Shakespeare. Because you have to align speech,
your breath, which he puts into the poetry, so it

(31:51):
forces you to be present. And if you go ahead of
that. I do all the time, you know.

>> Nick (31:56):
It'S something that's going to happen.

>> Jamal (31:57):
Right, right. But it's that reminder again to be present.

Yeah. that's it in a nutshell.

>> Jamal (32:04):
Yeah.

>> Nick (32:05):
Yeah. It. And the time
off. Yeah, it's easy. It's. It's, you know,
it's the muscles. There's so many
things, so many balls to dribble. I love that
analogy of juggling many balls, because really,
it really is. I've been working on shakes. My
daughter is in sixth grade.
Then we've been discussing Shakespeare because she wanted to

(32:28):
know. They're doing a, school play right now.
And so we had a discussion. She wanted to
know who this guy was that I was coming into
this room to talk about every week. So
we had the same discussion about it. And I'm just
introducing her to his plays. And it's so cool.
It's so cool to watch.

Yeah. You know, I don't know if you guys heard this week. There was
a. I think it was last week. Week before. There's a big discovery in
Shakespeare land. No,
yeah, there was a. Did you send that,
Miranda? So, actually, someone else sent it to Me?

>> Miranda (33:00):
I. I didn't send it. No, but I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, there's a fragment of, ah, Of a legal
document that mentions Mrs.
Shakespeare, Anne Hathaway in London.
So this whole thing of them, you know, was an
estranged marriage and all of that stuff,
it puts it into question. It just shows you,
how little we know. And it reminds me sometimes, you know, I,

(33:26):
I bring that little Bill Bryson book,
of Shakespeare, because as far as I
know, that's the only book where every single fact in it has been
verified.

>> Nick (33:36):
Interesting.

Everything else, all of you know, all you know.
Oh, you got, ah, ah, Charlotte's got it.
yeah, she's got it. It's very interesting to read.

>> Nick (33:48):
did you guys see what Charles McNulty
put, on social media today about the Othello?
he went. Yeah, all that. That was a neat blurb that he
wrote that he was talking about the. He went early and he was talking about
the first 30 minutes. Just what
a high profile event it felt like. And it was
great to have that feeling in the theater about a Shakespeare

(34:09):
play. You know, this, this Denzel
Washington and Jake Gyllenhaal production
that Yeah,
you know, people are excited about that show and that in
itself is really, really cool. I don't know how
the actual show is. I don't know. Has anybody
seen it or heard anybody? Oh, yeah, Charlotte.

yeah, the reviews have been very mixed.
Yeah, yeah, I had students see it.
I was a little chagrined because I heard that
even in previews lines were an
issue.

>> Nick (34:45):
Oh.

And I actually have. I have a friend who's in it.
He's he's one of the. Well, he's one of the smaller roles and then he's
a swing. He played Barbantio a couple times and
ah.

>> Nick (35:00):
well, we got a hiccup here.

He's had a really tough time.

>> Nick (35:04):
Oh, sorry, we lost you for a second. But you're back now.

Yeah, no, he said. He said the room has been,
two big personalities,
taken up a lot of space.

>> Nick (35:16):
Fascinating.

Yeah. So it's been. Yeah. And the reviews I
think, reflect that a little bit. which is a. Is,
you know, $900 for a ticket
man.

>> Jamal (35:28):
Yeah, yeah, it
happens on Broadway. Commercial theater moves at a different
pace.

But it's also stunt casting, you know, and
I got plenty of feelings on the subject. but
I'm glad people are excited about Shakespeare. I just wish
it could be more accessible. I really do.

>> Nick (35:48):
Jamal. You having understudied a major
role in a huge production like that,
is it tough to keep on the lines?

>> Jamal (35:58):
Not for me.

>> Nick (36:00):
Not for me.

>> Jamal (36:00):
Just because I've been doing this since I was 14 and I have a work ethic. And
so it wasn't hard for me. Challenges for other people aren't challenges for me.
and so, no, that's my answer. And here's why. It's
just because I. There's something
like in the. I'm hot, not because I'm hot. Like, this
stuff hits me spiritually. I'm not disconnected from this
stuff. Ethan Hawke had this thing talking about,

(36:22):
Robin Williams and how after doing stuff, they will be
depleted. Like, this isn't light for me at
all. And so, like, when I'm in the rehearsal room, I catch
the message and the spirit in it, and so it's the
poetry. But I also know what poetry is, and
poetry is spirit. It
creates space for something larger than us to come through. And

(36:42):
so, ever since I was a kid, like, I didn't
start acting to be on stage, to be famous. I
started. My first theater company was called Unleashed
Talent Production. It was about telling our stories so we can see ourselves. And
so I never played in the theater. So when I was understudying,
yeah, I was understudying Blair, but that was him and
my part. And me and Blair talked. He was like, yo, we're

(37:02):
doing this together. And I said, oh, I know. Because I don't go
into any space asking for anything. I'm there to do the
job. I'm there to tell the story. And so, no, it's not
hard for me because I know what I do this for. It goes beyond
me. It comes through me. So my answer is no. But for other
people, I can imagine it could be challenging.

>> Nick (37:19):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I spoke with
an actor one time, and,
gosh, I think it was, Charlton Heston was doing
man for All Seasons at the Amundsen.
And this. That was a while ago. And this. This
actor said, why are you still doing this? Why are you still
getting up here and doing plays? And, he said,
I. I just. I'm still trying to get it right.

(37:42):
I'm just trying to get it right. And that. That made a lot of
sense to me because it's one of the things, like,
I, I. I don't like the word track that's used
in theater a lot. And I've complained about this before. People say
this is your track. Then I. I just. I feel like
it's such an explorer exploration. Every performance
and track gives this connotation of,

(38:03):
you know, a lot of shows have. They're set and they have to be
the same every night. And that's the rule. And. But I feel like
there's a certain amount of exploration that needs to happen to
try to continuously figure these things out, you
know?

>> Jamal (38:15):
and that's wise to say too, because I think, I think
like this is systems, right? You have a director, you want to fulfill the
show and do that, but you're still an artist. And my, my voice and
speech teacher, Jan Gist in grad school always say that a part of our
job too is to translate what they're saying. So they might say, this
is your track, but what does that translate to you?

>> Nick (38:32):
Right?

>> Jamal (38:32):
They're saying track and they mean something, but you're still the artist floating the
space in between. So where's your autonomy with translating information?
That's within all structures where there's hierarchy,
you know. And so I think it's important what you're saying, Nick,
because you have to do the track and fulfill the director.
But how do you fulfill that within yourself and blend the lines?

>> Nick (38:49):
I think as an artist, the balance. Yeah,
definitely.

You know, you know. But, you know, answering your question,
too, it's very interesting in LA because a lot of the questions I,
I get are, why do you continue to
do theater when you can do film and television? When you're working
plenty in film and television, why. Why do you
burden yourself? And it is, it is an effort.
It's, You know, and I,

(39:13):
I always respond to that in a number of ways. First,
the history of it. It that to have a direct
connection to a profession that's been going
on for 2500 years and to read that
the actor, I forget exactly which
Greek actor was to arrive at a certain.
Supposedly took the ashes of his son

(39:33):
backstage. So in a kind of way,
the method is nothing new, you know,
and, and, and more, more, more important, just that
connection of 2500 years
ago. To think people always went through all of this
stuff to me is, And, and most
importantly, I tell them, because in television,
film, I don't control the music.

(39:57):
M. A director can say anything they want to me. He or she
can say anything they want to me. But it's a
collaboration because guess what?

>> Jamal (40:04):
I get to do it.

Whereas in film and television, as we all know,
it's gone. It's gone. It's pieced together. You're
entering the director's dream. In film and
television and, in the theater, the.
The actor. Things have changed. I mean, the power
of a director, this particular moment and with a
play like this is very, very important.

(40:25):
I mean, just look what Julie Tamar did with this.
Incredible. But at the same time,
the actor has to perform it. The actor plays the whole
symphony from the opening notes to the
last note. And I find that really, really wonderful.
And I find it very honest for an actor to do that,
you know, do you find.

>> Nick (40:46):
Have you. Have you seen your performances on film and television
be. You know, it's. Is. Do you consider it an
editor's medium? Like, do you
know, What I consider.

Is that I am part of something and not as primary
on film and television, not because the work is not
primary, not because we're there and doing the work, is that
we don't have control of the work. you know, there's not
an actor, to my knowledge, obviously, maybe some of the stars
have final cut, you know. You know, and
there's, you know, tons, Tons of things. Listen,

(41:18):
you know, speaking of, you know, Denzel and, if you do
a film with them and you're in a scene with them,
it's economics that their coverage is going to be more substantial
than a, a young actor, or
it's just the audience is paying to see them.
And that's true in television, too. I've had that,
producer told me one time, he said, oh, look, this actor

(41:39):
came up to him. For some reason, he started talking to me. I generally
keep to myself and do the work on set. And he, We
struck up a wonderful conversation. An actor came over, one of the
regulars and said, can I talk to you, man? And
he did. And he came back and he said, actors.
I said, what? He says, actors. I said, what? No, tell
me. He said, this guy's got a regular job on this series

(41:59):
for seven years. I had James Earl Jones in for a guest
spot. And he's asking me, will I give him equal
coverage when they do when the scene airs?
And I told him, absolutely. But you know what? That's not
true.
It's not true. You know, so
again, getting back to the source, that in

(42:19):
that way, it is a. You know, it is the empty space.
An actor and a passion still, you
know, yes, maybe.

>> Jamal (42:27):
And I also think I have to say this because I. I'm very
young.

>> Nick (42:31):
And I have done not big things.

>> Jamal (42:32):
That you do, but I teach my students to switch the mindset
because we're storytellers first, is my opinion.
And, like, when I'M on set. Like, I hang out with the
directors. Like when I'm in my first audition. Cause I
only want to collaborate. I'd rather not get the job if you don't
respect my voice. And so when I get my first note in the first
audition, I come down, I get close to the table, and I

(42:53):
talk. I start the conversation. And so I tell my students,
do you want to be an actor? That's a puzzle piece in this industry,
or do you want to be a collaborator? And that's based on how
you move. If you go into the room to book the job,
that has nothing to do about story. That's something about you booking the
job to take care of yourself. If you're there to tell a story and be a vessel,
which is what I train my students to do. You are a vessel for

(43:13):
a story that someone had to dream about. The writer
goes through so much to get these stories on the page.
And so this is just my training. Like, I was trained to be a
part of all of it at once.
And so I realized me moving around this industry is
a little bit. And even in the theater, it's different for
me. Even when I was in grad school, you know, I got into it with

(43:34):
Barry one time, and I had no problem with it because I knew who
I was, you know? And so
sometimes I think that it's a mindset shift. But I think for
me, I don't think it serves
me to tell actors that you don't matter.
I think it's a different collaboration and a mindset shift.
And I think we all have different sensibilities with that and

(43:55):
different tools and also different magnetism.
We all operate differently in spaces. And so I
think it's this, what you're saying, Tony. And I
think there's other options as well. I think it just depends
on what rooms you say yes to. And I think the actor remembers that you
don't gotta say yes to everything every gig. And we can get into the business of
it, right? We can get into, I have to feed myself. But you don't have to say

(44:15):
yes to everything. And so it is how you
move. It's a mindset shift. And in this industry and in the world today,
you know, we're asking, why are we doing Othello? Why is Shakespeare happening now?
It's like these plays come back up for a purpose.
Like, we're attracted to this art for purpose.
And like, plays that are on stage in this time,
it's mirroring something. And so I agree with

(44:37):
you. And I think there's other things because I have a different
experience moving through my life everywhere at Go.

>> Nick (44:43):
You know, it's interesting that they're doing this show at the
Swan right now. And even that review that I
read in the Guardian was discussing that
it's, you know, it's. It's
unfortunately never a bad time to do
this play. I mean, there, there's a headline on
CNN today about horrific things,
you know, that, that have happened to people

(45:05):
recently. And there are things that
are not far off from the
terrifying things that happen in this play. They're still going
on right now all over the world. And
the production of this one, evidently, they're. They have torture
devices that are coming down that look very much
like torture devices at places like
Guantanamo or, you know, in, in other

(45:28):
parts of the world. so it's,
it's insane to me that this play is still
relevant, but it is.

>> Miranda (45:37):
I just, I just emailed all of you the, the review
that, that Nick is talking about.

>> Nick (45:42):
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, it looks like a really
cool production. I would like to see that. I really like Simon Russell
Beal, and I bet he's great in that role for
sure. Charlotte, how was your experience
with Tamara this time? I, know that you
haven't. I, I just really. And I don't know if you went
to work on it over the week or, but I just

(46:03):
really enjoyed your performance and I just
didn't know if there was something different that, that you found.

I just, No, I didn't do any work.
Yeah, I know. I think I just,
I've always loved this role and I,
I think
if you really want to indulge in her, she's, she's,
she, she gets off on this a little bit. And there's a,

(46:30):
There's a, It's a deliciousness
to her that I love playing with. And when
she gets to play revenge, it's like
there's something, There's a buffet to be
had.

>> Nick (46:50):
I love how she. Sorry, we. We lost
you for a second power.

Of walking into this man's house and,
And.

>> Nick (46:58):
Sorry, you're back.

Oh, am I back? Oh, God. All right, I'm back. Yeah.
No, that's just. I love the command that she has. This, you know, a woman in
this world commanding her sons, seemingly
commanding Titus, you know, holding down the
stage. that's very intoxicating for a
performer such as myself.

>> Jamal (47:15):
So.

>> Nick (47:17):
Yeah, it's interesting that both of their children are in this scene.
You know, Titus and. And I love that we get to see
how they speak to their children. That's like a nice
little behind the scenes thing that Shakespeare gives us. You know, she
has that private moment with her boys and
the, you know, the way that. The
way that Titus beckons

(47:39):
Lavinia, there's something
intimate about it. There's something that's father, daughter.
It's almost like you had a gentle
moment with it. Tony, that I really enjoyed when
you said come, come.
Yeah. Ah, Just in those two little words there. There's
so much to be played.

(48:00):
That's really fascinating.
Yeah. And thank you for your commitment. Jamal,
on, we are the Emperor's Sons.
You know that it's hard in this medium because some of those things have
to be quite extreme. And I think that that line
is, you know, them fighting for their lives.
And I. I enjoyed the
reading of it.

(48:22):
well, I. Let's switch the casts.
Let's perform it one more time. Go all out, and
then, discuss it for a few minutes. And then Nathan's gonna come on
and we'll. We'll have a little. A few
questions.
now let me. Let me read this,
the cast. Jamal, can you play
Titus for us, please? Angie, would you play

(48:45):
Tamara, please?
Charlotte, would you play Demetrius and
Publius, please? And Tony, would you play
Chiron and Marcus, please?

Yep.

>> Nick (48:56):
Thank you.

Thus, in this strange and sad
habiliment, I will
encounter with Andronicus and say,
I am Revenge, sent from below to
join with him and right his heinous wrongs.
Knock at his study, where they say
he keeps to ruminate strange plots of

(49:25):
dire revenge.
Tell him revenge is come
to join with him and work confusion on his
enemies.

>> Jamal (49:37):
Who doth molest, my contemplation?
Is it your trick to make me ope the door that so my sad
decrees may fly away and all my study be to
no effect? You are
deceived for what I mean to
do. See here in bloody lines I have
set down. And what is written shall

(49:58):
be executed.

Titus, I. I am come to talk with thee.

>> Jamal (50:04):
No, not a word.
How can I grace my talk? Wanting a hand
to give it action? Thou hast
the odds of me, therefore no more.

If thou, didst know me, thou wouldst talk with me.

>> Jamal (50:22):
I am not mad.
I know thee well enough.
Witness this wretched stump.
Witness these crimson lines.
Witness these trenches made by grief and
care. Witness the tiring

(50:44):
day and heavy night. Witness all
sorrow that I know the well for our
proud empress, mighty
Tamara,
is Not thy coming for my other hand.

No, thou said man. I am not
Tamara. She is thy
enemy and I thy friend.
I am, Revenge,
sent from the infernal kingdom. To ease the
gnawing vulture of thy mind. By wreaking,

(51:21):
working, requal vengeance on my
foes. Come down and
welcome me to this world's light.
Confer with me of murder and of, death.
There's not a hollow cave or lurking
place, no vast obscurity
or misty veil. Where bloody murder

(51:43):
or detested rape can couch for
fear. But I will find them
out, and in
their ears tell them
my dreadful name, Revenge,
which makes the foul offender quake.

>> Jamal (52:03):
Art thou Revenge,
and art thou sent to me to be a torment to
mine enemies?

I am Therefore come
down and welcome me.

>> Jamal (52:17):
Do me some service ere I come to thee.
Lo. By thy side, where rape
and murder stands. Now give some
assurance that thou art Revenge.
Stab them or tear them on
thy chariot wheels. And then I'll come and be thy
wagoner. and whirl along with about the globe,

(52:38):
provide thee two proper palfreys, black as jet,
to hail thy vengeful wagon. Swift away
and find out murderers in their guilty
caves. And when thy car is
loaded with their heads, I will dismount
and by thy wagon will trot like a
servile footman all day long, even

(52:58):
from Hyperion's rising in the east
until this very downfall in the sea. Thee.
And day by day I'll do this heavy task.
So thou destroy, Repine and
murder there.

These are my ministers, and come with me.

>> Jamal (53:19):
Are they thy, ministers?
What are they called?

Rape and Murder.
Therefore called so. Cause they take
vengeance on such like men.

>> Jamal (53:33):
Good Lord.
How like the empress sons they are. And you the
empress. But we
worldly men have miserable, mad,
mistaking eyes. Oh, sweet Revenge,
now do I come to thee. And if one arm's
embracement will content thee, I will embrace
thee in it by and by.

Oh, this closing within
fits his lunacy. What
air I forge to feed his brain. Sick humors do
you uphold and maintain in your peaches
speeches. And now
he firmly takes me for revenge.
And being credulous in this mad thought,

(54:19):
I'll make him send for Lucius his son. And whilst
I at banquet hold him, sure I'll find
some cunning practice out of
hand to scatter and disperse the giddy Goths.
Or at the least make them his
enemies. See, here he comes. I must
ply my trade.

>> Jamal (54:39):
Long have I been forlorn, and all for thee.
Welcome, Dread Fury, to my woeful
House, Repine and Murder, you are welcome too.
How like the empress and her sons you are.
Well are you fitted, had you but a Moor.
Could not all hell afford you such a devil?

(55:01):
For while I walk, the empress never wags, but in a company
there is a Moor. And
would you represent our queen aright? It were
convenient you had such a devil.
But, welcome as you are, what
shall we do?

What wouldst thou have us do, Andronicus?

Show me a murderer. I'll deal with him.

Show me a villain that hath done a rape, and I have sent
to be revenged on him.

Show me a, thousand that has done thee
wrong, and I will be revenged on them.

>> Jamal (55:37):
Look round about the wicked streets of Rome,
and when thou find' st a man that's like thyself,
good Murder, stab
him. He's a murderer.
Go thou with him, and when it is thy
hap to find
another that is like to thee, good

(55:59):
Repine, stab him.
he is a ravisher.
Go thou with them. And in the
emperor's court there is a queen attended by
a mole. Well, shalt thou know
her by thine own proportion, for up and down she
doth resemble thee. I pray

(56:20):
thee, do on
them some violent death.
They have been violent to me and mine.

Well, has thou lessened us. This shall we do.
But would it please thee, good
Andronicus, to send for Lucius,
thy, thrice valiant son, who leads towards
Rome a band of warlike Goths, and
bid him come and banquet at thy house.
When he's there, even at thy solemn

(56:52):
feast, I will bring the empress and her
sons, the emperor himself, and all thy foes,
and at thy mercy shall they stoop
and kneel, and on
them shalt thou ease thy angry heart.
What says Andronicus to this device?

>> Jamal (57:15):
Marcus, my brother. Tis sad.
Titus calls.
Go, gentle Marcus, to thy
nephew Lucius. Thou shalt
inquire him out among the gods.
Bid him repair to me and bring with him some of the
chief. His princes of the Goths
bid him encamp the soldiers, where they are

(57:38):
telling the emperor and the empress to feast at my
house. And he shall feast with them.
So do thou for my love. And so let him,
as he regards his aged father's life.

This will I do, and soon return again.

Now I will hence about thy business and take my
ministers along with me.

>> Jamal (57:58):
Nay, nay, let rape and murder stay with me,
for else I'll call my brother back again and cleave to no
revenge but Lucius.

What say you, boys? Will you abide with him whilst
I Go tell my lord the emperor how I have
governed our Determined to jest.
Yield to his humor
smooth and speak him fair, and tarry with him till
I turn again.

>> Jamal (58:24):
I knew them all, though they supposed me
mad, and I'll I
knew them all, though they supposed me mad. And we'll all
reach them in their own devices. A
pair of cursed hell bounds, and they're
damned.

>> Miranda (58:43):
Madam,

Depart at pleasure. Leave us here.

Farewell, Andronicus.
Revenge now goes to lay a
calm plot to betray thy foes.

>> Jamal (58:55):
I know thou dost.
Sweet Revenge,
farewell.

Tell us, old man,
how shall we be employed?

>> Jamal (59:09):
Hut I have work enough for you to do.
Publius, come hither. Cassius and
Valentine, what is your will?
Know you these two?

The emperor's sons, I take them.

>> Jamal (59:22):
Chiron, Demetrius,
I, Publius Phi
Are too much to see the
one is murder, and rape
is the other's name. And therefore
bind them. gentle Publius, Cassius, and
Valentine, lay hands on them Oft
have you heard me wish for such an hour, and now I

(59:45):
find it. Therefore bind them sure,
and stop their mouths if they begin to cry.

>> Tony Amendola (01:00:00):
Feelings for bear. We are the empress
sons, and therefore.

>> Jamal Douglas (01:00:05):
Do what we are commanded.
Stop. Close their mouths. Let them not speak a
word. Is he sure? Bound? Look that
you bind them fast.

>> Nick (01:00:16):
Come,

>> Jamal (01:00:17):
Come, Lavinia.
Look. Thy foes are
bound. Sir, stop their mouth.
Let them not speak to me, but let them hear what
fearful words I utter.
O villains Chiron and
Demetrius.

(01:00:38):
Here stands the spring whom you have stained with
mud
this goodly summer with your winter
mixed. You killed
her husband, and for that vile fault two of her brothers were
condemned to death. My hand cut off
and made of Mary jest both

(01:00:59):
her sweet hands, her tongue, and that more
dear than hands or tongue, her spotless
chastity inhuman traitors,
who constrained and forced.
What would you say if I should
let you speak?

(01:01:24):
For shame, you cannot beg for grace.
Hark, wretches. Now I mean to martyr you.
This one hand yet is left to cut your
throats, while Lavinia tween her stumps doth hold
the bassin that receives your guilty
blood.

(01:01:45):
You know your mother means to feast with me and calls
herself Revenge, and thinks me.

>> Nick (01:01:54):
Ark.

>> Jamal (01:01:54):
bills, I
will grind your bones to dust,
and with your blood and it I'll make a
paste. And of the paste, the coffin
I will rear and make two pasties of your
shameful heads, and bit that strumpet on
hollow dam like to the earth.

(01:02:15):
Swallow her up. All increase.
This is the feast that I have bid her to.
And this the banquet shall she.
And this the banquet she shall surf it on
for worse than Philomel you use my
daughter and worse than Procne

(01:02:36):
I will be revenged.
And now, prepare your throats.
Then you'll come
receive the blood.
And, when they are dead, let me go

(01:02:58):
grind their bones to powder small.
And with this hateful liquor temper it.
And in that paste let their vow heads be
baked.
Come, come, be everyone officious to
make this banquet, which I wish may prove
more stern and bloody than the cent

(01:03:20):
toss feast. So
now bring them in, for I'll play the cook and
see them ready against their mother tongue.

>> Nick (01:03:38):
Bravo. Bravo.
I. I love. This is why I love double
casting. it's just so cool. I would go
see this show both ways. It'd be so fun. It's just
such a completely different reading, but
completely just as powerful. First of all,

(01:03:59):
Tony and Charlotte make a terrifying
Chiron and Demetrius.

>> Nathan Agin (01:04:05):
Terrifying.

>> Nick (01:04:07):
Charlotte. I'm convinced you could play any role in this show.

>> Jamal (01:04:12):
Absolutely everybody can.

>> Nick (01:04:15):
Jamal, what I love. You know, what I loved about your
Titus, too, is that
I felt he was carrying a great weight
in the beginning of the scene.
if. God, I got a sense of heavy
armor. You know, I got a sense of,
you know, it almost. It was almost a broken heart.

(01:04:37):
It was not madness, but a broken heart. And
then your progression towards the end of the scene
that resulted in welcome. You know, this. When he
shifts into this character, which is the chef, you
know, and he. And it made me really excited to. To see the
next scene. I. I want to see him in his
chef's hat at the banquet, playing this character that he's come up

(01:04:57):
with. That's beautiful. Beautiful progression.
you made a clear decision on,
Art Thou Revenge. I loved your delivery
of that line. you had a moment
where you're like, okay,
I'll play with this. it was just a
split second of a decision that just seemed so human.

(01:05:20):
It just felt so real. It was just a solid
moment. Angie,
your Tamara was what I
loved about her. She felt like a
prophet. It was almost like a John the
Baptist type of character. I
really enjoyed. There was a prophetic,

(01:05:41):
feeling about your revenge.
It was a different. It was such a different take than
Charlotte's. she get. Your
Tamara gets off on this in a different way. It's almost
a. It almost felt like a spiritual
way, the way that she went into this character.
Did you make a choice to go that direction, or is it

(01:06:04):
she definitely felt like a close queen, to
me, but it. It felt more like she was
playing a prophet or.
Yeah, some ghostly.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:06:14):
That's interesting.

>> Nick (01:06:16):
Yeah, like a ghostly figure, almost like.
it was really. I. I really enjoyed it a lot.
and. And you had some moments that. Where she broke.
She would catch herself and. And break
back into the human Tamara, and then come back
out to revenge. And that those were so beautiful
because we got a sense as an audience of the human

(01:06:37):
playing this character. I really enjoy those moments.
is there anything that you felt. What did you feel this time, Jamal?
How. How did it feel for you,
language wise?

>> Jamal (01:06:48):
You know? You know, I'm always on my own language. Like, why
am I hitting the me when I'm supposed to be hitting this thing? So that's a technical thing.
I'm always going to catch myself technically, because I can hear myself
when I'm not hitting the right verbs. That's technical.
Outside of that,
I'm always finding the balance with myself because these
things do, like, the heaviness, like, these

(01:07:09):
stories live within me. I'm a black man in this world,
period. And so I get the
darkness of this without any question, you
know, because I. I know what
it is to be embodied with a history of
people taking from you and then fighting
back, getting revenge. Like, I'm a part of

(01:07:31):
all of it as a black being embodied
this time around. And
so I'm always trying to find the balance of
not losing myself in this. And I
mentioned, like, this stuff is spiritual for me. And so, like,
I always have to work with my spirit. Like, I
start to shake. Like, I don't know if you can see it on the camera. Like, I begin to

(01:07:52):
shake even before I'm even performing. And so for
me, it was wonderful to write the language,
to remember my breath, to take my
time when I chose to,
you know, because this isn't a performance, this is still a rehearsal. I have to
remind myself of that. It's like, oh, no, I can
stay here. And I'm looking at the script, you know, because

(01:08:13):
it's hard to split screen. So I'm looking at this. I'm like, okay, let. What if I just
stay here, see the next thing
and go with it? And so
that felt good to trust
the process. It felt good to
trust the process. You know, it's been a while since I've done some
Shakespeare outside of this, medium.
And, I think I surprised myself

(01:08:36):
with what flows through me
with the language and how much
resonates with me in the language and all
the characters. And so it was beautiful
to explore, because, again, this is no little thing for
me. I wish I could say this is fun. It's not.
This is work. Because I don't see no separation
at all. Like, this is actually painful for me. I almost

(01:08:59):
didn't come today because it's a sacrifice for me to be
here doing this. It's a sacrifice for
me to have the conversations that we're having around this, and it
literally hurts me. and it's work to come back
down. And so I'm grateful for the room, because I think the
conversations that we have in this space
creates some safety for me. There's still
a lot that I'm processing in these rooms, honestly.

(01:09:21):
but, yeah, this is no little thing for me. And so it felt
good that I came today and that I wrote it out,
because I'm in my own mourning as well, you
know, and there's a lot of grief and mourning in this as well. And so I'm
grateful that that can all be mixed. You know, When I was in college,
my professor always. I used to have these migraines. He said, well, what do you do
when you have this pain when you go on stage? Like, well, you just breathe. He's

(01:09:43):
like, no, what do you do? It's like you stay in the present moment. Which is why
I'm so big on it. Because with whatever's going on in your world and your
life, you can still be present if you're mourning, if you're
grieving, you can still be present. Anything could be going on.
You can still come back to the moment. And so I learned that I
still have that today, even with the heavy heaviness that
I carry, because, I've been heavy all week. And so it felt

(01:10:03):
good to use, art to kind of move that energy
around today. Yeah, absolutely. With this piece.
Thank you for asking.

>> Nick (01:10:10):
Well, we're grateful we got to experience it with you.
Absolutely. Angie.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:10:18):
This time, what I really
truthfully felt was
the terrible limitation of this
way of doing things, because.
Because I have to stay on the script.
I can't, because it is. There

(01:10:40):
are such little things that happen between them.
When does she think, oh, my God,
is he sane? Isn't he?

>> Jamal (01:10:50):
All of those.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:10:51):
If you. If you're not. Not tuned
into someone's face in some.

>> Nick (01:10:56):
Way.

it's hard.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:11:00):
You do. You sort of make up those things,
but it's not the same as when they hit you
in the moment. And, God,
face to face is so Lovely.
And I tried to hold on you, but. But then you've got
to keep on it, which is. And, you know,

(01:11:21):
it's hard. It's hard.

>> Nick (01:11:22):
It is, yeah.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:11:24):
I'm grateful for the chance to do it at all,
but. Oh, geez, wouldn't it
be wonderful to be in the room together?

>> Nick (01:11:33):
You realize how much you get from the person standing across
from you. You get a lot of your character and a lot of your
choices, especially. And they change just a little bit every.
Every night by what they're doing.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:11:44):
All of it.

>> Nick (01:11:45):
Yeah.

>> Jamal (01:11:45):
And that's where the tea. That's where the. That's where the film stuff helps,
honestly, because sometimes you're talking to a tennis ball,
not even there, and you have to do everything, you
know, and so it is very hard. I was thinking that too, because I want to come
back here, and then I'm at the script, I'm like, which way do I go?

>> Nick (01:12:01):
You know, it's challenging to present
these things. Tony, have you ever worked with green screen
or things like that where you had to act by yourself
on film? In, Oh, were.
Your mic's off, Tony.
Yeah, click your mic button.

There we go. There we go.

>> Nick (01:12:23):
Yeah. Now your camera's off, though.

There we go.

>> Nick (01:12:25):
There we go.

>> Nathan Agin (01:12:26):
There we are.

>> Nick (01:12:26):
All right.

Yeah, yeah, no, I've done green screen. It's better than it used
to be in the sense that there was a time when you didn't
even know what you were looking at clearly.
I mean, they'd give you a, Obviously a mark, and they give you
an idea. But now, you know, with
the AI and with, everything, you'll.
You'll know what you're reacting to very clearly.

>> Nick (01:12:48):
Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah.

>> Jamal (01:12:50):
So interesting.

Not that it helps.
You still need someone, you know.

>> Nick (01:12:56):
yeah, I. I always find that with these, you know,
they're all. They're all rehearsal and
performance at the same time. You know what I mean? Like,
you're. You're rehearsing, but at the same time, you're aware that this is going
to be presented for people, especially the fourth episode.
a lot of times these are the ones that people click on and. And watch.
I don't know. I'll ask Nathan whether or not that's true, but

(01:13:18):
I feel like sometimes people will skip the first three
weeks and just watch the last one so they could get straight to the
finished product, but it's not a finished product.
We got a long way to go. And without the context
of the rest of the play, it Makes it difficult as well because you have a
progression getting to this point, you know, that you've been
on stage the whole time. I really want to do a whole play,

(01:13:40):
one time in this type of medium. I think it'd be really
interesting to discuss an entire show over a
month, but that's a lot of work. I keep bugging
Nathan to do that.
anyway, I'm so grateful to
have watched these performances today.
And they're difficult. But
watching you guys accomplish what you,

(01:14:02):
what you've done is this incredible learning
process for me and for the rest of the audience, which is the point of
this whole thing. And thank you all so
much. Hi Nathan.

>> Nathan Agin (01:14:13):
Hello.

>> Nick (01:14:14):
Hello.

>> Nathan Agin (01:14:15):
yeah, no, this, listening to this,
it's almost like, boy, they're making my job, almost
non existent. You guys have such deep conversations about
many topics over the course of the 90
minutes or two. I'm like, I don't even need to ask any questions.
They cover the breadth and depth of theater and history and
acting and no, no, it's. But it's all

(01:14:36):
enjoyable and it's all relevant. And I think,
you know, speaking of the limitations of the medium, I think that
only reminds us that this is, you
know, this is just the first stepping stone, in a series that
like, you know, I think there's,
well, I would guess in the first
day or in our medium, the first week,

(01:14:57):
you're probably, you might not feel ready to say,
let's block this already. You know, you want to dig into it, but you do get
to a point where you're like, okay, now we need to actually
be in the same physical space because we've, we've
dug into this enough. we can still explore
and mine things and find things, find moments.
But it's ah, that walk before you
run thing. But, but yes, I, I agree that there

(01:15:19):
absolutely comes a point where it's, it's
time for the next phase of, of, you know, if you were
to, if you were going to continue working on the
scene, it would be entering that phase where you're,
you're all in the same physical space. who knows, Maybe
as technology speeds up, we can create some kind of,
virtual 3D, rehearsal space.

(01:15:41):
yeah, yeah. I mean that, that, that'd
be pretty cool. you know, I mean, I'm sure there, there were
movies in the 90s that tried to recreate like, what virtual reality was
going to be like. And you know, every decade there's
Holograms. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But,
you know, and. And, yes, so maybe. Maybe we'll have holograms soon
enough that we can work opposite objects off of.

(01:16:01):
but, yeah, no, Nick, to your point
about, the difference in double casting, it is.
You're right, because it's not a question of,
you know, good or bad or right or wrong. It's just two very
different interpretations of the characters.
And as an audience member,
it's really enjoyable to

(01:16:22):
see and kind of like very,
very clearly experience that.
Oh, right, There are multiple interpretations of
this, that there's not just one way to do
it. And, you know,
a person's personality and history and
story and baggage and whatever else they bring is going

(01:16:43):
to inform, you know, what that character is.
And so, yeah, if
Angie did Titus or Tamara or Jamal did Chiron
or Demetri, you know, it's. It's always going to be different. and
then, of course, you incorporate, you know,
those of us who have done casting work, you're kind of almost mixing
and partners. It really is different, almost night to night,

(01:17:03):
because it's like, I don't know who's going to be on stage with me or
it's, it's. Oh, yeah, we haven't. We haven't done this scene in like, six days.
Okay, well, yeah, let's. Let's try to remember what. What it's going to be like.
that. That keeps it fresh and lot a alive for the actors, too.
Monologue too much more here. But, you know, I'm just building
up all these ideas over the 90 minutes.

(01:17:24):
it's. I think that's fun for the actors in
that it. It keeps it fresh and,
you know, you. You just get to explore,
staying very present of like, what's. What's it going to be like with.
With it. With a different actor or. Or, you know, these
parts.

>> Nick (01:17:40):
So,

>> Nathan Agin (01:17:41):
Yeah, no, it's been very, very enjoyable hearing
all the conversation. I, you
know, I'd be curious since I know in the first week we
talked about, you know, people's,
experience with the play or limited
experience, whether they've seen it or just read it.
again, I came in having done neither.

(01:18:02):
I'd be curious if. If anyone wanted to speak to
just the journey,
with the play over these last few weeks.
Any, observations or thoughts you've had?
Certainly, those who didn't have much experience with it now
coming, spending this time with it. Just if

(01:18:24):
you've had any takeaways, or
ideas or whatever, just anything that changed or
kind of morphed for you, just kind of open it to
anyone.

>> Nick (01:18:36):
well, I, I did this play at
Lambda in London in a nunnery,
entirely lit by candlelight, which you're
not even allowed to do anymore. And it was a
really, really cool experience. But the
director was very adamant about, like I said
before, not.

(01:18:57):
He, he didn't want comedy involved. He
really wanted to. It was a very dark production
and I think we even, they even killed
Aaron's baby in this production. which,
which I was like, I don't know. So I
kind of wanted to explore it myself because there were so many
things that I didn't agree with that production. But there were,

(01:19:18):
but I, I loved the play. And again,
it was really. I really like Marcus. I,
I. And I think that he's got some. He's an interesting character.
he's kind of, I don't know, he's an angel in
the darkness a little bit. And his poetry is
just, stays in my head all the
time. I think about many of his lines and speeches.

(01:19:41):
So I, I wanted to explore the show and see what I
missed the last time and what we could gain. I, and I think
that the comedy is important and I think that
there are times when the audience needs to laugh in this show
and I think those are moments that help bring the love out.
And I think that with so much chaos and blood,
sometimes it's like the actor that doesn't move on

(01:20:03):
stage, all eyes go to him. I think with so much chaos and
blood, it really brings out the love
and friendship and humanity and
maternal and paternal, parts of
the play. Man. I, I probably would have done
many other scenes, but this just seemed like the best scene that would
fit in this medium with, you know, the amount of people that we could

(01:20:23):
use and.
But yeah, I think, I think that I've achieved that through this
experience. So. Thank you.

>> Nathan Agin (01:20:30):
Great one, great to hear.

>> Jamal (01:20:33):
I'd like to say something on that question.

>> Nathan Agin (01:20:35):
Yeah, please. Jamal.

>> Jamal (01:20:36):
That something that is vibrant to, to me is that,
they're, they're alike. You know, I think Charlotte said
this about Titus and Tamara. It's like
sometimes we want to think that they're different than the other,
but they're after the same thing because of the same
offenses just happened at different points in times of the experience.
And so I love within the. I always talk about

(01:20:57):
mirrors. I Think they're beautifully written in everything that
we read. If you can capture them and if you can. Could zoom out
enough and capture the mirrors, that's when it really gets fun.
Because the. The illusion is that they're different,
but there a lot that is similar. And I felt
that reading through it this time, like Titus and
Tam, is the reason why they come face to face. And you will always

(01:21:18):
come face to face to yourself in the end.
that's a spiritual concept and just the truth. You will always
be face to face with you and what you have done with
your life and the choices you have.

>> Nick (01:21:28):
Have made.

>> Jamal (01:21:28):
And I think Shakespeare is really great at writing
that in, if you can catch where it is.

>> Nathan Agin (01:21:37):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:21:37):
You know, when I read that, that AI Thing that said this
was Shakespeare's worst play. I don't even think it said one of
his worst plays. I think it said this is Shakespeare's worst play.
And I was so like. I mean, I. I
could. It's almost like there is no worst play.
There are worse productions. But,
you know, you can see a production of any one of

(01:21:58):
his shows that can be fantastic. I was
just. I was kind of shocked by that. I'm glad that
we're exploring it.

>> Jamal (01:22:06):
Yeah.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:22:08):
Moral judgment.

>> Nick (01:22:09):
Yeah. Right. I don't know.

>> Miranda (01:22:11):
I. Yeah. I mean, this is the kind of thing that makes.
Gives me a little bit of comfort that AI isn't quite ready to take over
the world just yet, you know? but,
I would just like to answer Nathan's question too,
because I've really been made more aware, I think, of
the, Of two things. Just the beauty of the
language, listening to all of you work through

(01:22:32):
its intricacies. And again, just the
relationships. And, following
from what Jamal was saying,
Tamara and Titus are in many ways just the
obverse sides of a. Of a coin.
You know, his paternal love, her.

>> Nick (01:22:47):
Her.

>> Miranda (01:22:48):
Her maternal love, and. And just those familial
relationships really, really stood out to me
this time. Thinking about the play and. And
listening to all of you watching. All of you.

>> Nick (01:23:02):
Great.

>> Nathan Agin (01:23:04):
Angie. Yes.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:23:05):
It's just. I think we can't
ignore the fact that. That we like
being entertained with
gore and, mayhem.
I mean, we got to accept that
it's not just serious and all this stuff we
enjoy watching. what are Marvel

(01:23:25):
movies and all that.

>> Nick (01:23:27):
Right, right, right.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:23:28):
It's entertainment.

>> Nick (01:23:30):
Right.

>> Miranda (01:23:30):
Yeah, I agree. And I.
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that's also what. There's that, as you
say, moral judgment by A.I. you know, I mean,
who, who. Who's A.I. fooling, you know, none of us.
I mean, that's exactly right. You know, these,
this gore and mayhem sell, but I think
unadulterated gore and mayhem, at least for me,

(01:23:52):
don't sell. It's. It's. There needs to be the
nuance and the complexity of emotion, of character and
characterization.

So, you know,
there's,

>> Nathan Agin (01:24:02):
Go ahead, Go ahead, Tony. Yeah.

No, I was just going to say I. You know, I
guess for me it was the, the
truncated nature of rehearsal these days just simply,
economically doesn't allow the time
to do this. And so generally it's.
It be. It's, you know, the director does it
separately and then the actors do it separately.

(01:24:23):
And when that happens, sometimes you don't get the. The benefit of the
room and you're not dissuaded
from your terrible ideas.
So it sort of took me back in a kind of throwback,
way. But there is a point, I must admit, there is a point,
as Angie said. Would you say, you know what? It's all
well and good, but we need to put it. Put it on its

(01:24:45):
feet now, you know,
so. And, you know, in that regard, that's. That's what
was a pleasure. Just, you know, just,
talking about it in different ways. There are so many ways,
you know.

>> Nick (01:24:59):
Yeah.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:24:59):
Think about it, because if we were actually rehearsing this
play, we would never have the time
to spend this much time on this scene.

Never. Never.

>> Anne Gee Byrd (01:25:09):
So I'm grateful for that.
Although I complain about.

Yeah, yeah. And not only that. Yeah.
Even. Even in the good old days, you know, you
get. You block it. You, work on it
once. Before you know it, you're into run throughs and you're into
previews. So you better work, you know,
quickly. you know, you, And that's
why sometimes, it's really, really beneficial when you're

(01:25:34):
running in rep, because you have the time
off to really digest it and right to
all of a sudden absorb, what's going on. Because
it's dense, you know, the poetry, et cetera.

>> Nick (01:25:45):
You know, what I like about this too, Nathan, is that we can take
this experience and if we do Titus,
someday this is going to help. And
all these shows, I try to do every one of these that I can in
case I come across these plays in the future, I'm going to know this scene
a little bit better. It's like pre
rehearsal.

>> Nathan Agin (01:26:05):
And I think even for actors or artists
who enjoy table work, work,
everyone's going to come to A point. At some point there'll be different
levels where, you know, they're going to be chomping at the bit going,
okay, we've talked, we've talked a lot
about this. Now we need to, you know, we need to
feel it, we need to experience it. So, you know, yeah,

(01:26:25):
there's, there's no, like, there's no actor in the world that just only
wants to stay at the table. It's like, okay, we gotta, we gotta finally do
this. So, yeah, no, I completely agree that
this, you know, and this, this has never been about,
you know, replacing, replacing theater
productions or. It's not about that at all. It's just,
let's try to work in a different way because

(01:26:45):
this medium affords us that and we don't have to think about
all the other things, but it's just, it's just one,
luxurious block, in a, in a process.

Nathan, was this, remind me, was this a child of
the, of the pandemic?

>> Nathan Agin (01:27:00):
It was, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We,
I, actually
the, we did a live stream reading.
we all remember how fun those were. we did a live stream reading
in, like, like early April. Like it was
pretty early on because I saw another
company doing it and I thought to myself, well,

(01:27:21):
I know a bunch of really good actors
who probably have nothing to do right now,
so let me see if I can get all them together. And sure enough, I could.
And, we did that a couple times. We did, Much Ado About Nothing and then we did the
Merry Wives of Windsor. And some, some people here were
involved with that. but then it became, well, what, what else
do we want to do? And, the conversation

(01:27:41):
was that, a lot of people had been doing these live stream
readings, but they, they felt a little unfulfilling
and they felt extremely chaotic,
because you'd have like, maybe no rehearsal or maybe
one meeting. and then it's like, just
do it. and you know, that
can be fun. But I think

(01:28:03):
especially, you know, in the early days of the pandemic, there was no end in
sight to, you know, being at home. it was like, well, let's
take some time to just, you know, take
some time, just explore these scenes in a way that we, you don't
often get the, the chance to. So, it just,
and it became, it came out of conversations with
a lot of the artists who had been involved with that, with those projects. So,

(01:28:23):
yeah, that was the idea. And I, I, it's Never.
It's never gotten stale to me. And it doesn't seem to get
stale, you know, to others, you know, that they enjoy
working like this, at least again, as the first step
in the process. or like Nick said, it's. It's a great
way to do a little bit of a primer
on the play of, like, if you do ever

(01:28:43):
get to, you know, work on. In the future or you want to direct it or
whatever, it's a good little testing
ground, you know, just to try out some ideas and
see, how it feels. I mean, I just did a scene,
from, Shaw's Misalliance, that we're,
currently releasing. And,
you know, to, Jamal's point about

(01:29:05):
just, you know, how much it
can take, to do these things. That was one
of the conversations. And it's no stranger to anyone
in this room. but just how exhausting,
you know, how exhausting it is to make something
look casual or to make something look relaxed.
it's such a tremendous amount of work. and. And

(01:29:27):
you know, if people, you know, watch films or. Or even,
you know, go to the theater and somebody seems
very. It's. It takes a lot of, you know, physical, vocal,
mental energy to do all that stuff. And,
you know, once the adrenaline wears off,
I would guess most people feel pretty spent. Now. That might be two
in the morning, it might be the next morning or whatever. But, yeah, it's.

(01:29:47):
It is.
I. I think that's also a great reminder
for artists or audiences, viewing this
stuff that, you know, it's.
That's the work, that this material asks of you.
You know, Tony was talking about earlier, you know, other
people commenting, you know, just why you come back to this work and why
it's so. Why schools keep using it,

(01:30:09):
is that it is so demanding and it does ask
so much of you. and it's. It
is, It is a bit of a Herculean
event, you know, to prepare for it and get
ready for it and train for it in some ways and
then do it. and
I sheepishly, you know, experienced that after

(01:30:30):
producing so many of these, like, acting in one, acting in a
scene, the last time it was just like, man, yeah, this is.
This is a different level of tired. you know, but it's fun. I
mean, it's like an athletic competition. You don't necessarily
feel tired in the middle. you know, while you're doing it, you just
engage. But after the. You Know, after you get off the. The stage,
you're just like, I. I, You know, I remember

(01:30:51):
when I played, Richard iii, I had water,
like, you know, set at different points around the theater, and, like,
snacks. And I could just. Wherever I was exiting, I would. I could grab
something to eat, grab something to drink, because it's like, I. I'm not
gonna make it to the other side of the stage if I. If I don't have anything with me
right now.

>> Jamal (01:31:06):
It's real.

>> Nathan Agin (01:31:08):
So, I would, you
know, Like I said, the conversation has been great, and you guys, you know,
talked a lot about a lot of different things, which has been
wonderful. and I also want to honor people's time. And
if we're at kind of a natural wrapping
up point, that's okay, too. We can always. We can always go home early.
That's fine.
but, you know, if there were any other thoughts

(01:31:30):
people had about, specific moments in the play that
either, Or in the scene, I should say
that, you know, when you first read the scene, you kind of
envisioned it or thought about it in a certain way,
or thought about a character in a certain way. But how that
maybe has changed for you over time.
you know, whether that's, Chiron, Demetrius, Tamara,

(01:31:52):
Titus.
You know, Because,
you know, that's. That's a trap that I can fall into,
you know, reading these plays is that I
envision the characters a certain way. And it's not
Till you actually get in there and work on it and explore it
and try to connect the dots, it's like, oh, okay, I
have to let go of some of those ideas because

(01:32:14):
that was just, you know, I was just projecting onto this and
Let me. Let me start with the text. So, if anyone has any of
those, thoughts that they, you know, something morphed for them
or surprised them, or challenged an
idea that you. You had about the play or about the character.
I'd be interested to hear about that, you know, from any of the artists.

>> Jamal (01:32:32):
But, it's a character that's in this scene that
doesn't speak, that is still thick in my mind.
Lavinia. You know, I think
that we forget. Get. I was reading the Book of Longing
by Sue Monk, last night, and it's, the moment
where one of the characters is raped and then
her father cuts her tongue out.

(01:32:52):
And then it was so interesting. I was
reading that last night because we forget because we don't have a Lavinia in this
room to show that what we do. And I know we're
entertaining too, but we forget that there's a woman
on stage, mutilated,
on display. And I keep saying that. I think I said this
every, every rehearsal in one way or another. I'm surprised

(01:33:13):
that we don't talk too much about that.
And again, I'm just. That's the thing that I still get caught
up on each rehearsal is that we have a woman
who is not in this room, who was
mutilated, that is
holding a bucket with blood pouring into it. And I was
reading that book last night, I was like, yeah, this shit

(01:33:34):
hat bins. And I can't let that go because it's the
imagery that I know playing
Titus that I have to engage with.

>> Nick (01:33:43):
My God, Lavinia is a scene stealer in this
show for sure. All eyes are on her.
Anytime she's on stage, I feel like
everybody's checking in with her. Because any characters
that's listening, you know.

>> Jamal (01:33:57):
It's another reminder to me how we, what we forget about in
our world and what we speak little about is the ones who.
Silent in the room, most vulnerable in the room when everything
is happening around. I cannot let that go in this
room. I cannot let that go because
it's interesting. And then we make it lighter because we need the
comedy to make it lighter. I can't make it lighter. She ain't
stealing the show. Everything was stolen from her.

(01:34:19):
That's the story. everything was taken from her. She
ain't stealing shit. Everything was taken from
her. And so I can't let that
go. It ain't still a no show.
sorry, I'm not sorry, but that's where my passion lies.
And again, that's so interesting to me
and that's so important in this scene.

(01:34:41):
So that's what I'm caught up on still.

>> Nathan Agin (01:34:43):
Yeah, no, it's a great point.
Ah, yeah, it's a great point and I think would
absolutely inform,
everybody, you know, as you continue working on it, if you were to
block it and have this. Have, have her
there. yeah, I completely agree.
anyone else wanted to share, any thoughts or,

(01:35:04):
ideas about specific moments in the scene?

well, I don't really have that. But
to the point of Lavinia, in the
production I did called Citrus Andronicus,
which admittedly was a crazy take on, on the play,
each character was embodied by fruit and
Titus was a pineapple,

(01:35:27):
and he had banana hands and like, all this stuff. But when we got to
Livia, we really thought long and hard about what she
was. And she was a peach,
and she was this. And we created this tower
for her, and the characters in
it protect. Like, whenever the peach was there,
it was. She. She was protected, and she was,

(01:35:48):
you know, surrounded, and she was guarded, and she was all these things.
And at the end of the play, the peach
got destroyed, and it was this,
like, massive tearing apart of this peach,
and it. It devastated the room because,
everybody by that point had imbued
this peach with. With what she

(01:36:09):
was. And, it was a really moving moment.
The audience was leaning in and, like, there's just peach
everywhere.

>> Nick (01:36:17):
Right?

And it was. You know, it was a
surprisingly moving moment. and to.
To. To your point, Jamal, like, yeah, she's. She's there.
She's constantly present. And,
And how everybody relates to her is the
key to this play.
and. And when we destroy things,

(01:36:40):
how much lower can we go? How much more bottom
out can we dig? You know, That's. That's what we found
to just this crazy clown experiment, like,
the devastation of the play still exists.
So that was. That was always an interesting point I found
with the play, you know?

Yeah, I. It's funny.

>> Jamal (01:36:59):
I.

And a whole slightly different thing is it's wonderful
to work on the early plays and then see the, later ones. You
know, I mean, many people say this is like a,
an audition for Lear in a kind of way,
you know, and,
And. But you. When you look at the language in two plays,
very, very different. And. And you see the

(01:37:21):
maturity in a kind of way, this one, You
know, it clunks sometimes.
and then all of a sudden you have this jewel.

>> Nick (01:37:30):
Yeah.

You have this just incredible sort of thing.
And maybe because it's surrounded. This pearl
is surrounded by all the other Tetris that.
It shines. But, You
know, I also had great respect for how difficult,
this play is.

>> Nathan Agin (01:37:47):
And.

And it needs to be in the. In the right hands. And as
I said, the theater is what it is. It's.
You know, I'd be very
attuned to who the director was before I would agree
to do this play.

>> Nick (01:38:00):
Yeah, yeah. It's just, you know,
Miranda, like, To what extent do you think this play
was responsible for
Jacobean theater? I mean, it,
I mean, it had a lot to do with it. Am I correct
or.

>> Miranda (01:38:14):
You know, me, you know? Yes,
yes.

>> Nick (01:38:18):
And.

>> Miranda (01:38:18):
And, Sort of. It
certainly both reflects the. The
interest in. In Revenge tragedy
and anticipates the Jacobean
variations. on that theme of, of
revenge tragedy. I think, you know, I, I would,
I would hesitate I guess to

(01:38:39):
to, to lay the, the, the
weight of of Jacobean revenge
tragedy on, on Shakespeare's shoulders in
this, in this play. And, and of course, you know,
when you, when you think about what you know, what, what
Marlowe was writing at this, at this time
too, you know, those are, you know, again, to, to
Angie's point, those are, you know, bloody.

(01:39:03):
And they, you know, they, they, they were popular
as, as images are of gore
are to this day. And what that speaks to,
in human nature psychologically. I'm not sure I want,
I want to think about right now, but, but
you know, it. And get it always with Shakespeare
again, I come back to the language. There's just, there's,

(01:39:24):
there's a, there's a, a beauty to the
language, a nuance to the characters, a complex complexity
to the characters. you know, Shakespeare
makes it hard speak myself. I think Shakespeare makes
it hard for us to judge, to write
villains off as purely villains. You know, they
are three dimensional. They aren't, they aren't two
dimensional. characters or

(01:39:46):
caricatures. you know, those
elements may be there, but then, but then there's, there's
nuance as well. So,
it's been a real treat for me, I have to say, to
really think about this play again and this scene and
just as I, to end where I began in our
first session. I just always feel such a debt of gratitude

(01:40:08):
to all of you, to actors
and directors who bring Shakespeare's
plays off the page, which is at
the end of the day where they need to live. so.

>> Nathan Agin (01:40:21):
Yeah, was
fascinating to, to listen to and, and
be, present to, you know, all the conversations around
the tone of, you know, how heavy it is and, and,
and the comedy of it or you know, and,
and the the pathos of it
and, and the, the heart of it. You know, like

(01:40:42):
it's, you know, as we
talk about, you know, it's, it's, you know,
the gore and whatever is still something that attracts people.
And you know, there are, you know, horror movies
for horror sake, but it's
not every, you know, gory film that also
has a sense of humor or has a character that you really care

(01:41:02):
about. And so I think when those projects come along,
and they're typically more in TV or film than in
theater, they really, they really resonate with
people. I mean, I I didn't see all of it, but I know,
Like, I. I think of the. The show Dexter, that. That had,
you know, a character that was, you know, a serial
killer. But, you know, it was. It was just. It was more than that.

(01:41:23):
It wasn't just him killing people, that there was something else,
you know, going on there. And I'm sure we could come up with other examples, but
it's. And then it's why, you know, we
can look at Shakespeare as. As again, further evidence of
being such a great writer that it's. It's a tricky thing to do.
You know, you can write something where people just get killed left and right.
But, to. Or even the more recent

(01:41:43):
movie, get out, you know, that has,
you know, these real suspenseful, you know,
thriller moments. But there's.
There's some real heart in there, and there's also some levity in there. And
it's, It's. It's, something very
hard to navigate or very hard to, capture
and to write. well, but,
I think that's what

(01:42:06):
draws us in, is that it's not just the gore.
It's how it affects everybody and the humanity of it.
you know, Jamal, I love the passion with which
you speak, you know, about all of this stuff, and,
I appreciate how much it. Like, I.
And I didn't mean that. I appreciate how much it
impacts you personally and your willingness

(01:42:26):
to be part of this.
So thank you for being here.
and, yeah, it's just been a great,
series. I want to thank Nick again for
bringing up Titus Andronicus as a selection.
And, Charlotte, Miranda, Angie, Tony.
really, again, thank you all. Jamal, thank you all again

(01:42:47):
for being part of this.
This was a lot of fun for me to, you know, get kind of a
nice entry point into this play to feel like,
okay, I have a tiny little window now into,
Titus, and I can always, you know, explore that
thread further. So, if, unless
anybody else has anything burning that they want to add about the play
or their experience, we can kind of wrap it up here.

(01:43:10):
and I will, mention those watching
again. Come on back. We have lots of sessions out there that you
can go check out. full sessions on Chekhov and
Shakespeare and Shaw and,
Stoppard. you know, so many things that you can
just go and dig into the nitty gritty of
how does this work? How do we bring this to life? and
lots of different artists Some of, you know, you'll see some of

(01:43:32):
the same people in other scenes like, it's played. It's almost like
our own private little repertory company. You get to
play lots of different parts. It's really great. And
I. And I'm, That's been. One of the things that's been, really
rewarding for me is, is seeing actors
get to play so many different things. You know, I.
For everybody sitting here, I can think of other roles you've played, and

(01:43:52):
it's like, yeah, they were so great in that, and they're so great in this. And
it's just. It's just a lot of fun. and. And actors don't
always get that. They sense and be like, oh, yeah, I'm playing the best
friend again, or I'm playing the, you know, whatever. Whatever
it is, you just say, yeah, not again. But, you know, it pays the bills.
but this is something that, you know, you get to have a little more fun with.
so that's that. again, leave comments, connect, with

(01:44:13):
us on social media or here on YouTube or the podcast.
and, thank you again, excited to,
you know, close out, this session of Titus. And
I look to forward. Forward to not only seeing all of these artists,
but hopefully, the audience, come on back to the rehearsal
room. We'll do it again another time. So thank you guys,
everybody, again, for. For your time and

(01:44:33):
effort and, work.

>> Miranda (01:44:35):
Thank you, everyone. Bye. Thanks, Nathan.

Thank you.

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Titus Andronicus (5.2), Final Session: "Blood & Bonds" - The Rehearsal Room

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Titus Andronicus (5.2), Final Session: "Blood & Bonds" - The Rehearsal Room