Titus Andronicus (5.2), Week 1 Session: "Witnessing the Vengeance" - The Rehearsal Room - The Working Actor's Journey

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Nathan Agin (00:00):
Hi there. I'm Nathan Agin. Welcome back to the Working Actors
Journey rehearsal room. We started this project in
June of 2020. It came out of what we could do with all that time
and we have kept rolling along. we are almost
at five years later 40 rounds
of these very exciting that we keep getting to do these
and we have so many great artists a part of this.
and just having this time to deeply explore

(00:23):
just one scene over the course of a month has particularly
excited just everybody involved. We've had a lot of we
have many Sessions up on YouTube and our podcast
you can go through and check out work by Chekhov and
Shaw and lots of Shakespeare, Tom, Stoppard,
some other playwrights in there as well. it's just
a really great opportunity to explore

(00:43):
how do you take a character from the page and make
it real and what are the questions and what's the process and how do you
go deeper. So for those familiar with John
Barton's Playing Shakespeare series, I kind of see this as
a, a continuation of that, a springboard
off of that. We are unlike them,
totally unscripted. it's a wonderful way to see the creative

(01:04):
process, excuse me, in real time. And
yes, for those who are new here, what you're going to see over the
weeks is not meant to be a final performance, but rather just a
continuation from week to week of the work in
progress. It's just the next step of wherever
everybody is. it's an opportunity for artists of
different generations, different locations to

(01:25):
get together and collaborate, learn from one
another and to
wax philosophical for a moment. I think this continues the
great theatrical tradition and history of
apprenticeship where newer and younger artists,
those may be people in the room, maybe people
watching, get to see up close how
professionals were work after 30, 40, 50

(01:47):
plus years. like I said, the questions to ask and how to
explore, how to communicate, how to take direction,
all of the things that you will need to
learn or want to learn in the rest of
your professional work. and one of the things
I love about this is this has never been a top down
structure. there is not one person teaching

(02:08):
or they have all the answers. It's always been just a
great a level playing field that
good ideas come from anyone and people are willing to
learn and just try different things. as you will
also see here tonight and some of the Other sessions,
we can explore different casting, being more conscious
to gender and age and race than theater,
sometimes can be. people have had an opportunity to play

(02:31):
parts that they just assumed skipped them decades ago,
and they get an opportunity to come back and say, you know what? Now I get to
take a crack at this. or if you think, like, geez, never
been this type, or, it's hard for me to get cast in these types of roles,
this is a great place to do that. So,
all that being said, I just want to wrap up very quickly.
I love that we can bring together artists from all over the place in this

(02:51):
group. You'll hear we have people, you know, from
every Corner of the U.S. or from every time
zone, I think at least represented, which is exciting.
and, as, yes, we will be posting these sessions on
YouTube and the podcast. Subscribe, click for
notifications and you can support the project through Patreon
and get early access to, the sessions there,

(03:12):
starting at just $5 a month. Thank you to some of our patrons.
Joan, Michelle, Jim Magdalene, Ivar, Claudia, Cliff and Jeff.
and, that's it from me. if you have any questions as you're watching this
on YouTube, post them below. We'll be happy to get back to you.
and I want to thank all the artists, especially if they've been through this. They
hear me do the spiel every time. But, you know, sometimes people are
saying they've never seen one of these, and they're like, wait a second. I

(03:33):
want to see what they do with Titus. Like, I want to know more about that
play. So here you are. First time. love
that you can join us. with that.
Why don't we do a quick round of introductions
just so that all the artists, in case they haven't met
yet, this is their opportunity to kind of get, to know each other.
I'll start it, and then I'll kick, you know, pass it off. my name is

(03:53):
Nathan. I live in very Northern California.
Actor, in LA for many years.
Ah.
And, mostly, do, voiceover and audiobook
work as an actor and then, running this
ship here. So I'm delighted to be part of it. I will pass
it over to our director, Nick, and we'll go from there.

>> Nick (04:12):
Thanks, Nathan. Hi, everyone. My name is Nick Cagle.
I'm an actor from California. I've been doing this since
I was a wee child. it's an
honor to be here with this Group of people to talk about this
wild, magnificent play that we're going to talk about today.
I've worked with, Angie and Tony
before and Jamal as well,

(04:34):
on the working actors journey. Charlotte, it's an honor to
meet you. Thank you so much for being here. And, Miranda,
so nice to see you. thank you all
for being here. Angie, do you want to go ahead and introduce
yourself?

>> Angie Bird (04:47):
my name is Angie Bird. And Nick, and I
start met doing, Shakespeare
1x.

>> Nick (04:55):
That's right.

Yeah.

I. You know, I don't know what to say. I, in
my youth, did a lot of Shakespeare.
now there are, like, only about two roles left
for me in the Shakespeare, canon.
this is not one of them. So I'm delighted to be here.

Jamal.

>> Nick (05:18):
I'll jump in.

>> Jamal (05:19):
I'm Jamal Douglas. This is so wonderful to be here.
you know, I come in. I live in Los Angeles.
I'm an actor, a teacher, a poet,
and I just like talking a lot of stuff about philosophy
and life, which is where Shakespeare comes in. Because when I was
younger, I thought that it was bigger than me. And then as I grew
and began to know myself, I began to see the mirror

(05:40):
that's just there when you just look at the language. And I love
that we're working on this piece because it's so dark.
However, there's so much. There's still a lot of truth,
all truth in there of human nature and what we become
and how we can become the very thing that we despise.
And so I'm excited to be here to know nothing and to learn
with the room, because I believe that when you come into the room

(06:02):
knowing nothing, the text just lifts off the
page, because the text just does what it does. So
I'm happy to be here for that. I'll kick it to Miranda.

>> Miranda (06:13):
Hi, everyone. I'm Miranda Johnson Haddad. I'm the
resident dramaturg at, A Noise Within Theater in
Pasadena. And I do dramaturgical work at other theaters,
But I come to dramaturgy via Shakespeare. And my
focus always was, has been Shakespeare in
performance. Because I know that we love
the plays as texts. We study them, teach them as texts, but

(06:34):
at the end of the day, they were written as scripts. And I always feel such
a debt of gratitude to actors and directors
and, anyone in any theater space, including a
zoom Room, for making the plays, Making Shakespeare's
plays, complete, which they really aren't until they're
being performed. really happy to be here
and to Be working on this play, which I have never taught

(06:54):
and I've never seen live, which is an interesting thing.
Tony.

Hey, guys. How are you? Tony Amendela.
you know, the first play I ever did was the Shakespeare play. It was the
very first thing. Literally in the dark,
all is lost to prayers. To prayers. All is lost.
That was literally my line. And I think of it often,
living in la. but, just like, Judi
Dench's, book, the man who Pays the Rent, Shakespeare has been very

(07:24):
kind to me. He sort of sustained me for many, many
years, you know, when I came from the east and ended up,
out west at various festivals and
etc. So, I'm just
happy, to be here and happy to, To continue
sort of the, The journey and the challenge. You know,
let's face it, there isn't much opportunity to do Shakespeare.

(07:45):
There really isn't. There's less than there was when I was growing up.
In fact, you could. You could earn a living doing
Shakespeare. When I was growing. In fact, I did for a while.
now. Now it's much more difficult, but at the
same time, I think it's the most challenging thing.
I think, you know, the old sort of adage, if you can do
Shakespeare, you can do anything. I think

(08:06):
it's very, very true if, in fact, you encompass all of
Shakespeare, which is, you know, you take the text as
a springboard and, you know, it doesn't simply,
exist, as a text. It's the.
Anyway, thank you. And I don't know who's. Who's left.

>> Nick (08:22):
Charlotte, I believe.

Charlotte, your turn.

>> Miranda (08:26):
Thank you.

>> Jamal Douglas (08:27):
Hi, everyone. I think I'm the only one representing the east
coast right now. Perhaps. Perhaps.
yes. I'm in Collingswood, New Jersey, just
over the bridge from Philadelphia. that's right.
We are a filthy city. I was born and raised in
Canada, though, with British parents. So
Shakespeare's in the blood there somewhere.

(08:48):
I am an actor, director, writer, teacher,
here in the Philly area. And
I'm, excited to return to this play.
I created a fringe piece, for a company here in
Philly, last year, called Citrus
Andronicus. and it was
a, ah, crazy bananas,

(09:08):
take on Titus, using clowning, fruit,
a lot of violence, as the play demands.
So, this will be a nice return to. To the language
that's.

That.

That sparked that ridiculous show.
So, we had a lot of fun with it, but, yeah, I'm excited to be back in the room.
I've been here a couple times, so I'm excited to work with
all of y'.

>> Miranda (09:30):
All.

And, yeah. Thank you, everybody.

Excellent. Excellent. I wanted
to, take just a moment, to, remember, an
actor that recently passed, Marc St. Amant.
some of you may have known him, through, the Antias Company. And I know he worked
at the Road Theater Company a lot. he shuffled off his
mortal coil well before his time. But,
he's not forgotten and was loved by many people.

(09:53):
Ah. I was in class with Mark, for a little bit. And always
respected what, he brought to the
table. So I know many people
miss him. And,
it's always tough, when your peers,
go onto that other plane. So, yeah, I'm thinking
about Mark, and, I'm happy to honor him here.

(10:17):
as we embark on Titus, one
of the things I wanted to ask, everybody. And,
Nick, you can feel this another, time if you so
choose. But, as an observer, I'd love to
hear if I hear, you know, Charlotte kind of
shared her experience with the play, if others have ever.
And Miranda did, too, if others have seen it, worked on it,
done any scenes from it. I'm kind of coming to this

(10:39):
totally new. So I'm excited to
dive into it, and just kind of let it wash over
me. But, with that, I'll leave you with that, prompt or that
idea. I'm going to, get out of the theater, let you
guys, enjoy your time here. I'll be listening in case there's any
questions or hopefully no problems. and, I'll check back
in towards the end. So have a great, time.

>> Nick (10:59):
Thanks, Nathan. Well,
to answer Nathan's question, Titus Andronicus was
my big senior play in college,
which I was so wary about because you work
all, you know, for years to get to this
point, and then you get a big Shakespeare show. And I was
like, titus Andronicus. And I read

(11:19):
this play, and
it's shocking, it's
nearly absurd.
it's grotesque.
There's so many words that I could use to describe it in a negative
context. And then within it is some of the
most beautiful poetry ever written

(11:40):
down on paper.
and I think it's a true
exploration of violence
in so many different forms. You know,
political violence and religious violence and violence against
women. And in the end,
the violence of revenge,

(12:03):
from many different angles. Revenge from Titus
and Revenge from Tamara.
and it was a wonderful experience
to work on this play and to break it
down. And the freedom of
creativity that this play allows is really beautiful.
Like, Charlotte, what you were saying, with a
clownish design of the show, there are so many different

(12:25):
ways to be creative with this play and so many different
ways to look at it, which is one of the reasons I wanted to explore
it. And I'm so honored to have this
tremendous group, working with me on this today.
Jamal, have you ever worked on this show before?

>> Jamal (12:41):
I have never worked on this show before. I did audition
for it in Philly, actually. I went to Arcadia
University and lived in Philly for many, many years.
And the only time I worked on it was that audition, because that
was when I was terrified of Shakespeare. And so I went into this small
theater, and Philly is a really great place because you have.
You. I devised a lot of theater there. We have

(13:01):
the French Festival, which is really grungy there. So it's called a French
Festival show. And so because of my
insecurity and, you know,
imposter syndrome, like, preparing for it, I was
questioning myself. I was 22. And so I went into
the audition. This was the first time where I had, like, that big
traumatic thing of, like, going up three times
because I just felt like I could not carry the language

(13:23):
I felt on the inside. It was like a big, like,
spiritual moment for me. It was shattering. I felt like I was
not worthy of carrying this. And it was also the trauma of,
like, my theater training and my mind just telling me that I'm
not worthy of this text. And then I went to the Old Globe for grad
school, and then, you know, here I am here in the room,
and so that was my only experience. So I'm coming back to this

(13:43):
after knowing me shaking, going up three times
on that stage when I was 22. And I'm 36 now, turning
37 next month. And so I'm excited to come back
with, the knowing of being with the text and
letting it bring out the emotion that lives within
us. And I love the room because of the
conversation where we see ourselves. And to your point, this
play is tough. However, like, it

(14:05):
starts after dudes coming back from 10 years of
war. And I think we, you know, we live in a world
where it looks like this, and I think it's
easy for us to say that this is hard and grotesque, but this
is what war looks like. This is what people do
in war, and this is what we like to not
Recognize is happening every single
day. And so it's not that

(14:28):
grotesque today. And so it's interesting that I'm
coming back to it after being 22 and being 36. What I know
in the world we live in today. And so I
agree with you. A lot of darkness, but there's a lot
of truth and light in it as well that shows us
that we are the mirror of the thing that
we think we're after.

>> Nick (14:48):
Beautiful.

>> Jamal (14:48):
Maybe.

>> Nick (14:51):
Yeah. How about you, Angie? Have
you worked on Titus before?

No, I haven't. And my only experience with it was
I was, walking the Cotswolds way, which is a
hundred mile hike, and we went to
Stratford and saw a production of it.
We had cheap seats and,
they were filming it, so we were
like right beside the camera. And it

(15:17):
was a time when there was a big discussion
in England about the diction of young
actors not being very good anymore.
And I hadn't read the play.
So the way in which
people treated one another was not enough to tell
me who belonged to who.

(15:38):
So there was total confusion for me about
who were Titus's sons. And suddenly
he's killing his own. And it's like.
So, I really. Although
some of it was great fun, as indeed it
is. I mean, it was
very confusing to me. I'm

(16:00):
ashamed to say I hadn't read it. So that might have added to the
confusion. But in any case. So I'm delighted to be looking
at it now.

>> Nick (16:07):
Absolutely. How about you, Tony? Have you played
Titus?

First of all, I'm a Philly kid, too. I went to school at
Temple for these two Philly
guys. Philly guy and gal. you know, I'm ashamed
to say I was offered it and I couldn't do it.
and it's a shame because, it doesn't come around that
often. but,
you know, and the other thing about it is, it's so

(16:34):
intriguing is we think, you know, it was one of the most. One
of his most popular plays in his lifetime.
You know, much more popular than any of the,
romances, that we tend to fixate on now.
Very, very. Which tells us a lot about the time.
it's very, very interesting. So, no, I had
never worked on it. I never did a scene from it.

(16:56):
I've read it. I'm trying to think. I've seen the movie,
perhaps trying to think, did I see it live?
I don't, you know, I don't believe I have. we did
a couple of readings at it it's a
favorite of John Apachella. For some reason, he's fixated
on display. So we. We did a
couple of readings of it. You know, just very much like this. You know,

(17:18):
switching roles and doing stuff.

>> Nick (17:21):
John doing puppetry work and.

Exactly. Work. And,

>> Nick (17:25):
Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. Then
nothing. And Charlotte, you told us your experience. And
Miranda, you haven't worked on this piece either, have you?

>> Miranda (17:33):
Well, I haven't.

I should.

>> Miranda (17:35):
I should say I haven't taught it, and I haven't,
I haven't seen it live. But I feel as though I've
had a couple of. Of Close Encounters, with it.
1. One was when the, By the way, I lived in Philadelphia
the first year my husband and I were married, which was back in the early
Cretaceous period. So all these. All these silly
connections. But, when Julie
Taymor's film, Ah came out in 1999, at the

(17:58):
time I was doing a lot of reviewing from Shakespeare
Quarterly and Shakespeare Bulletin, and I was able to do a phone
interview with her. She was absolutely lovely. And just get a
closer sense of, sort of what she was up to. I
can send that review that eventually appeared in
Shakespeare Bulletin. I can send that around if people are
interested. So there's that.
But then my other close encounter was, before

(18:21):
After Philadelphia, we lived in Washington D.C. and I did a lot of work at the
Folger Shakespeare Library. And the Folger is in
possession of, the unique Quarto
of Titus Andronicus. There's one quarto, and
it's at the folder. so just being able to, you
know, see it was. Was extraordinary.
But that also really got me thinking about, You know, as

(18:41):
others have pointed out, it was such a. One of his
best, most popular plays ever. You know, Tony
was saying, which is true. And yet, there's only one
Quarto that has come down
to us, which is unusual, I think, for plays that
were published in Quarto. So I don't know why that is,
but I've been speculating about that.

>> Nick (19:01):
Oh, it's fascinating. Well, I chose
5:2, and I had a hard time. I really wanted
to do the first scene of this play because
there's so much action going on in the
very beginning of the show. But it's a hefty
scene with a lot of characters and it's difficult to do in this particular
medium. and I chose 5:2
because I thought that it was a nice

(19:23):
scene that tells a little bit about what happens
before the scene and a little bit about what's going to
happen after the scene. So it gives the audience
a little sense since we can't do the whole play.
it gives everybody a little sense of the
entire structure of the thing.
definitely Tamara and Titus

(19:44):
do a lot of the heavy lifting in this scene. So
we're gonna rotate a little bit. We're gonna explore all the different
roles, and we'll switch
off and everybody will get a chance to do it. And then
we'll we'll end up, with, with a, a solid
reading after our four sessions and see where
we begin and where we land in the end. And I'm really

(20:05):
looking forward to it. like I said, I think that this
is a play about revenge.
But I think that the revenge starts in
the very first scene with Tamara.
She's pleading with
Titus not to kill her son,
in a beautiful speech in the very beginning of

(20:26):
the show. And Titus basically says we have
to because. And, and tell
me if you agree with this, Miranda. Titus is basically
saying we have to do this because it's our religion. We have
to do this. So Titus's sons who have
died can rest in the afterlife.
Because they won't be able to rest in the afterlife unless

(20:47):
Tamara's son is killed
by Lucius, who is Titus's eldest
son. am I sort of right there,
Miranda? In the beginning?

>> Miranda (20:57):
Yes, yes, you're absolutely, absolutely right.
And of course it's such an old, old
idea that predates Shakespeare by so much. You know, you think
back to Beowulf and the whole concept of Weregild. And
it's the way that idea of vengeance,
sort of compensatory vengeance
keeps showing up again and again and again, throughout literature

(21:19):
really, in religion and non religious literature. And
why is that? Ah, getting back to what Jamal was saying,
you know, this is, we're living with the effects of this to this
day. But yes.

>> Nick (21:32):
So Titus takes off a Larvis
and he is mutilated
and burned in front of Tamara.
She sends her two sons to
do absolutely terrible things
to Titus's daughter Lavinia.
and just before this, where we are

(21:53):
in 5:2, Titus has come, I would
say, to the edge of madness.
I'm not sure that he's gone over the edge because
he's able to plot his revenge,
in a way that's fairly clear headed.
Ah, so it, it seems like
he comes just to the edge, but he's

(22:15):
misjudged by his enemies. They think that
he's completely mad. So
Tamara decides that she's going to
disguise herself as revenge.
And she tells Titus that she
will help him, that she's going to come to
his aid if he invites Lucius,

(22:35):
his warlike son, to a feast.
Revenge, says she'll bring Tamara and
Saturninus. now,
Saturninus is the emperor of Rome
and only the Emperor of the Rome, because. Emperor of
Rome because Titus allowed it. Is that correct,
Miranda? You think

(22:56):
basically, Titus has said.

>> Miranda (22:59):
Yeah. Yes. He throws his weight, so to speak, behind.
Behind Saturn 9. When saturnine and Bassianus are
both contending for the throne by hereditary right,
he throws his weight behind Saturn IX as having
the greater claim because he is the firstborn son, is the
oldest son.

>> Nick (23:16):
Titus's loyalty is extraordinary in this
play. He gives his whole self and
his whole family to Rome. and it's something
that we can explore a little bit and talk a little bit more about.
but it's. It's to the point where when I see this show, I find I
get really frustrated by that because, you know, he. He
kills one of his sons. He gives up. They want

(23:37):
him to rule in the beginning because he's this great emperor. And he
gives the throne to Saturninus. and,
he is com. He is beat down over and over and
over again. And some could say that it's justified. It depends on how you
look at the show. Because of
Tamara's. Tamara pleads with him in the first
scene. Basically, she says, we're both parents. You can't do

(23:59):
this to my son because we both have children.
And you know what it's like to be a parent. And I know what it's like to be a
parent. And then he goes ahead and does it anyways.
So it is easy to see where Tamara is coming
from. but she definitely takes it many, many, many
steps too far. I thought we'd
go ahead and take it section by section and read it through.

(24:19):
and we'll switch off characters a little bit, if that's
okay. can we just start out the
very first section and read to line 20,
with Tamara and Titus? if you don't mind,
can we have, Angie read Tamara and
Tony read Titus just for this first little section, and
then we'll switch off and have Jamal and Charlotte

(24:39):
jump in the next section.

Where is the end? Where is, 20? Where does that end?

>> Nick (24:45):
It ends on Tamara's line, if thou didst
know me, thou wouldst talk with me.

Okay, okay.

Before we start, can I just say,
obviously, Titus is above in
the inner above, and I am
below looking up at him. I mean,
obviously, everything indicates that that has to be
the staging. Correct?

>> Nick (25:10):
Absolutely.

Okay.

>> Nick (25:11):
Absolutely.

thus, in this strange and sad habiliment,
I will encounter with Andronicus and say, I am
Revenge, sent from below
to join with him and right his heinous
wrongs. Knock at
his study, where they say he keeps to
ruminate strange plots of dire revenge.

(25:39):
Tell him Revenge is come
to join with him and work confusion on his
enemies.

Who doth molest my contemplation.
Is it your trick to make me ope the door that
so my sad decrees may fly away. And
all my study be to no effect?
You are deceived for what I mean to do.
See here in bloody lines I have
set down. And what is written shall be executed.

Rylus, I am come to talk with
thee.

No, not a word. How can I
grace my talk? Wanting a hand to give it
action? Thou, hast the
odds of me, therefore no more.

If thou didst know me, thou wouldst talk
with me.

>> Nick (26:30):
Thank you.
Excellent. So, pretty
straightforward.
This is her entering this strange and sad.
What exactly? Miranda, what is a
habiliment?

>> Miranda (26:47):
a costume, a way of dressing. The
clothing.

>> Nick (26:51):
The clothing. Okay.

>> Miranda (26:52):
Which is one of those cues or. Or, you know,
clues really, that Shakespeare gives us. That
she's a tired. Some odd way.

Yes. And sad doesn't mean sad as
opposed to happy. It means
odd, weird, Dark.

>> Nick (27:11):
Yeah.

>> Miranda (27:12):
M. Yeah.

Probably means black.

Yes.

Probably means. Yeah, you know, dark. Dark.
Yeah.

>> Nick (27:20):
So many design possibilities with this show. I
always love to imagine the costumes and what she looks like
dressed as revenge. What her idea of what revenge
would.

>> Jamal (27:29):
Be wearing in this.

>> Nick (27:30):
Fabulous.

There's so many problems with that. In terms of so many what?
Bryce had problems. So many questions. It's almost become a
director's play.

>> Nick (27:38):
Absolutely.

Because, you know, how you choose to do the violence.
Do you use blood or do you use the usual, you know, do
you go to the Japanese theater? Sort of notion of
fabric. And so it's very,
very much a director's piece,
in the way that some aren't that can survive without a director.
Many of them. Well, there weren't directors

(28:01):
I really would have liked.

>> Nick (28:02):
Julie Taymor did a stage production of this before the
film. And I would have loved to have seen
that man. Ah. What she did with costumes, I
bet. Amazing.

She's a genius. She's a genius.

>> Nick (28:14):
She was the right person to direct this for sure.
Yeah. She has some really interesting. There's a really. There's a
Shakespeare hour worth her discussing this
show. And, she really loves this play.
She really has a lot of information about it. Yeah.
I would love to read that, Miranda, if you get a chance to send that,
it'd be awesome.

>> Miranda (28:33):
I'll send it around. Yeah. I have to say,
also, she was lovely. She was very generous with her
time.

>> Nick (28:40):
So, Miranda, am I correct? I'm going to ask you a lot of
questions during this because it's just so much directorially
going on. Midas know that she's coming.

>> Miranda (28:51):
Yeah. I don't know that he knows that she's coming, but he certainly
recognizes her instantly, immediately.
Yeah. And I like what you said, Nick, about how he's sort of
teetering on the brink of madness. But, And. And
certainly he's been very convincing to
many people, you know, around him. And
Tamara is. Is persuaded before she goes there that

(29:12):
he's. That he's crazy, that he's insane. But
he's not. In fact, I think he snaps into
clear focus in this scene.

he certainly is not. He literally says, I'm not
mad.

>> Miranda (29:24):
Yeah.

In the scene.

>> Miranda (29:26):
Yeah.

>> Nick (29:26):
Yeah, that's what I said.

It doesn't mean he isn't.

>> Nick (29:30):
Exactly interesting as well. Yeah. How much
is he playing the part?

>> Jamal (29:35):
and the poetry, Tamara says later on, come down
into this light. And so it's something about coming into the
darkness to find light there. And so
even the script is playing with the language of, like,
sometimes when you surrender to the darkness, you
see clearly there. And so it's in
the language.

>> Nick (29:54):
Fantastic. Let's. Let's read. Let's read on a little bit more.
We're going to kind of just go through the whole scene right
now, get a feeling for it, and then we'll break it down. We'll continue to
break it down further and further and further, to the
bare minimum, since we have so much time spent on the scene,
which I'm excited about, because we can use it. I'm always
surprised at these things that you can keep

(30:14):
going after a month of work on one scene.
but, yeah, can we have, Jamal and Charlotte? Go ahead. Can.
Jamal, can you read Titus? And, Charlotte, you read,
Tamara. And let's just go down to
line. let's go
to line 60. So
thou destroy rapine and murder. There.

(30:38):
Thank you.

>> Jamal (30:42):
I am not mad. I know thee well
enough. Witness
these wretched stump. Witness these crimson
lines. Witness these trenches
made by grief and care.
Witness the tiring day and heavy night
witness all sorrow that I know thee well.

(31:03):
For our proud empress, mighty
Tamara.
Is not thy coming from my other hand?

No, thou sad man. I am not
Tamra. She is thy enemy and
I thy friend. I am Revenge,
sent from the infernal kingdom to ease the gnawing
vulture of thy mind by working wreak full
vengeance on thy foes.
Come down and welcome me to this

(31:37):
world's light. Confer with me
of murder and of death. There's not
a hollow cave or lurking place,
no vast obscurity or misty veil where
bloody murder or detested rape can
couch for fear. But I will find them
out, and in their ears tell them

(31:57):
my dreadful name,
Revenge, which makes the foul
offender quake.

>> Jamal (32:06):
Art, thou Revenge?
And art thou sent to me to be a torment to
mine enemies?

>> Miranda (32:15):
I am.

Therefore come down and welcome
me.

>> Jamal (32:21):
Do me some service ere I come to thee.
Lo, by thy side, where rape and murder
stands. Now give some assurance to
Thou art Revenge. Stab
them, Or tear them on my chariot.
Or tear them on thy chariot wheels. And then I'll
come and be thy wagoner and whirl
along with thee about the globe, Provide thee

(32:43):
two proper paw. Freeze, blackest jet
to hell thy vengeful wagon. Swift away
and find out murderers in their guilty caves.
And when thy car is loaded with their
heads I will dismount. And by thy
wagon will trot like a servile
footman all day long, even from

(33:04):
Hyperions rising in the east until
this very downfall in the sea.
And day by day I'll do this heavy task.
So thou destroy rapid and murder.
There.

>> Nick (33:19):
Excellent. Thank you, guys.
It's interesting that, Titus immediately decides to
play along.
She, I really like Charlotte. How you took. You
relished in the care. Tamara relished in the
character of revenge a little bit there.

(33:39):
I think it's in the language and I think he really, I love that
direction that he went, and I feel that that choice
helps. Titus, say, oh,
okay. Art thou Revenge and art thou
sent? You know, it's. It's interesting. That shows
his. His wit, though. He. You know,
there's something that. That proves right there that

(34:01):
he's centered and
not lost in madness.

>> Jamal (34:07):
It's so interesting. Go ahead.

>> Nick (34:09):
Go ahead. Please, please.

>> Jamal (34:10):
I was gonna say it's so interesting too, because it's this
moment where what's coming to my mind
is like, when you feel like you're going crazy, and then
you start noticing people looking at you crazy, and then you
start Questioning, like, wait, hold on. Wait.

No, no, no, no, no.

>> Jamal (34:24):
And so it's almost like the fact that you think I
am and I am.

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

>> Jamal (34:30):
I'm a. Play cool. It's like. It's like, we all. It's like
when you start to. And it always happens. It's a psychological thing,
actually. It's scientific in a sense. It's like
he sees the crazy in him in the
mirror. They're both crazy.
They're both mad. And so, like, when he says, I'm
not mad.

(34:51):
Oh, you revenge. Okay, let's be revenged, then.
Let's do it. Let's do it. You know? And so that's what I feel is
the nuance of it. I don't know if he's stable. Maybe he has
lost it. I think it can be kind of
like a balance, a space in between m. You
know, being stable and losing it. I actually don't think we're supposed to
recognize the difference.

>> Nick (35:11):
And he takes it. Sorry. Go ahead, Charlotte, please.

I wonder if, just to go out
left field, if he's incredibly sane
in this moment, and he
sees her enjoying the
cat and mouse that she's about to start.
And so if revenge is the thing that the two of them
are basically fueled on, and it seems like

(35:34):
that everything else has fallen away. That. That
when he sees her enjoying something, and it's like, oh,
we're gonna do this. Okay, I'll play
with you too.

>> Jamal (35:43):
And,

Because if he plays along, gets her to trust him
in this moment, then he
can absolutely turn around and get her.
When he. When, you know, when. When he gets her out of there and the sons are
left alone and he can kill him, you know, and.

>> Nick (35:57):
He even takes it a step further by mess.
It's like that. That's not just playing along.
That's taking ownership of the thing. Okay.
Oh, good. Well, show me that your revenge. And kill
those two kids next to you.

Yeah.

>> Nick (36:13):
You further stab them or tie him to a chariot wheel,
and it's doubly.

Banana grams if he's. They've just
showed up on his doorstep and he didn't know this was happening.
And it's like he immediately jumps on. It's like, oh,
what a gift. You know? What a gift. I'm gonna play.
Let's go.

>> Nick (36:32):
Tony, do you have something? You look like you were.

No, no, no, no. I'm just listening. No, I'm just listening.

>> Nick (36:37):
Angie, what do you think? Any input on that section?

I think
it will be interesting to find out how
how he plays mad. Because if he
isn't convincing,
then Tamra is just a fool and we have
no scene.

So.

I, mean, are there ways in which
in the time madness would have
manifest itself that are particular?
it's a question. But if
he isn't
manifestly crazy

(37:26):
seeming, then Tamra
is foolish.

>> Nick (37:31):
So that's very interesting.

Yeah, I think it's a tricky, ah, moment, you
know.

Yeah. There's something about madness in,
in major characters, I think, you know, they
say the truth when they're mad. You know,
Lear actually speaks more truth when he's mad with
Gloucester about the society than
he does in any other part of the play. Why?
Well, because, I mean, even Shakespeare has an out.

(37:56):
Shakespeare can say, well, the character's mad. It wasn't a critique
of our society. This character's mad.
Oh, are you there? Yeah. so the
characters mad. It's just very, very, very interesting. you know,
learn all Lear stuff with Gloucester. Hamlet is the same
thing that.

>> Nick (38:14):
I was going to say Hamlet as well. Yeah.

It's a similar thing, but it's not. And
Angie's absolutely right. Sort of a problem in the scene is
how do you. This is where
it sort of, you know, almost goes back to like a m.
Medieval mystery play or something. It's very, very
difficult, you know, particularly, you know, in the next
section when he starts saying, well, that's funny.
He actually looks like these two guys.

>> Nick (38:38):
Yeah.

That I really hate. And I've been thinking, writing about killing,
it's really, really tricky. And, you know, maybe, what Charlotte
said to the notion
is obviously he's not playing
mad in the, you know, playing. It's
more in trying to see is that it's
a. More subtle. It's a nervousness. It's

(38:59):
something to. But I don't think I have to
say, Angie, I don't think you. It will always
creak. I. I don't know how you do that section.
I think it's meant to be funny. In
fact.

>> Nick (39:12):
That's very interesting. Ah, like how
there's a fine line between how much comedy
is in this. I mean, I've seen productions that are really funny, and
I've seen productions where they did not go for any humor at all
and went as dark as possible. They both work
in completely different ways, but there is a ton of
humor in this show. No question about it.

(39:33):
Absolutely. And it's a fine line between. Yeah,
exactly. It would be fun to find out, how.
How mad is he and how Much is this
calculated. You know, how, like,
his choice of madness. There's
a lot in it that seems planned. You know that.

>> Jamal (39:50):
And speaking about revenge, too, there's something when
we. When we go there about revenge and
war and blood that becomes kind of lustful
and seductive and kind of almost
like you're feeding forward and feeding them in. And
there's almost like this mother child thing, like, I will
do these things for you. Where it's like, please, yes, please

(40:11):
do that and get. And they look like you. Right?
And it's almost like this. These things are just coming up in my
body. When we think about
beings who exist in the world of
blood, you know, it's something
significant, seductive and lustful, like he
feeds her.

>> Nick (40:29):
Yeah. I mean, that's one of the reasons this play was so
popular. You know, it's the gladiator
ring. It's, it's ufc.
It's. You know, so many people still are
entertained by violence, you know?
excellent, Excellent. Let's. Let's read
on again. Can we switch back?
we're on line 60. And

(40:52):
can. Can we do Angie and Tony again?
Reading Tamara and Titus.
So, these are my ministers, and, Come
with me.

These are my ministers, and. Come with me.

Ah. are they. Their ministers?
What are they called?

Rape and murder,
therefore call so. Cause
they take vengeance on such kind men.

Good Lord,
how like the emperor's son they are.
are you the empress? But
we worldly men have
miserable, mad, mistaking eyes.
Oh, sweet vengeance, do I come
to thee? Am I one arm's

(41:49):
embracement? And if one arms.
Embracement. Oh, good Lord. How like the
emperor's sons they are. And you the empress.
But we worldly men have miserable, mad,
mistaking eyes. O sweet
vengeance, now do I come to thee.
And if one arm's embracement will content

(42:09):
thee, I will embrace thee in it by and
by.

This closing with. With
him fits his lunacy. Whatever
I forge to feed his brain. Sick humors do you
uphold and maintain in your speeches.
For now he firmly takes me for
revenge. And being
credulous in this mad thought, I'll make him send
for Lucius, his son. M. And

(42:36):
whilst I at a banquet hold him, sure
I'll find some cunning
practice out of hand to scatter
and dispense the giddy Goths,
or at least make them his
enemies. See,
here he comes. I must ply my trade, my thing.

Long have I been forlorn, and all for
thee. Welcome, Dread
Fury, to my woeful house.
Repine in murder. You are welcome
too. How like the Empress and
her sons you are. Well
are you fitted, had you but a

(43:19):
moor. Could not all hell afford you such a
devil for well, I won't. The Empress never
wags, but in her company there is
amor. And would you represent our,
Queen aright? It were convenient you had such a
devil. But welcome as you are.
What shall we do?

What would thou, have us do, Andronica?

>> Nick (43:43):
All right, let's stop there and talk about that for a minute.
Very interesting. I had to
turn my microphone off though, Tony, because I was laughing.

Oh, good. So we made that, we went up
that road.

>> Nick (43:59):
Because it's funny, it really is.
I, I, I just, I don't understand how the audience
wouldn't laugh. you know, when he
recognizes the kids,
it's, it's hilarious, the section. But
like, you know, like
Angie was saying, he's doing a good job because

(44:19):
she completely believed, you know, she, she
thinks that he firmly takes her for revenge.
So he is playing the part.

Well.

>> Nick (44:32):
What do you think, Charlotte? Do you have anything to add to this?

I mean,
I, I,
I wonder.

>> Nick (44:50):
Like.

Yeah, he's with Mad People,
right, Where we sort of condescend and so
he, all he has to say is, oh, you look like this. Oh, this?

>> Miranda (45:00):
Yes.

Right. Just, you know, and I feel like there's a, there's an enabling
of it. So, so I think
that helps the trajectory. that he
says these things. Well, yes, because if
your brain is addled, you, you tend to pick from
parts of your life that have existed. You
know, it's like when you wake up and you've had a dream and you're like, why did I

(45:22):
dream about orange juice? Oh, because we were talking about orange juice before I went to bed. Like,
it's just these, you know, these, these
snippets of our brain. So if he says, oh, you look like so and so.
Okay, just buy into it, you know, she
still has to sell the ruse.

>> Nick (45:35):
Yeah.

You know, and he's, he's, they're actually
just selling to each other. You know, it's just
who's gonna win, who's gonna sell it the best?

>> Nick (45:44):
And I get the sense, and I got the sense from your reading,
Tony, that you could feel
that underlining anger
within him, you know, that, that desire to
just attack them. I've always had
a sense of that during the scene that he knows exactly who
they are, he knows exactly why they're here.

(46:05):
but I don't know. What do you Think.

No, no, I think so. And
I think that the trick for the Titus is because I think
that has to be there. There's a boiling, because that's where he is.
He. That's why they arrive, because he. He's
got an itch he can't scratch. He's got a.
There's a real need for that. I think probably the
interesting thing is the trick is to so how. Convince
them that it's about these other people.

(46:30):
So it's still expressed, but it's about these other
people, not you guys.

>> Nick (46:34):
Why he brings up the more.

Yeah, yeah, it's about these other people. And
you, know, maybe that can, you know, can be. Could let out some
of that, you know, direct steam that, I don't know.
I'm just juggling.

>> Nick (46:47):
Yeah. No. And just before this scene,
we have seen a scene between Lucius and
Aaron where Aaron has a speech where he talks about
all of the terrible things that he has done.
so in the audience's
mind, that's still fresh when he brings up
m. You know what. You know, all the

(47:08):
trouble that Aaron has caused,
essentially. Did you notice anything in there, Jamal, that you
wanted to throw down?

>> Jamal (47:16):
You know, I got some things I do want to throw
down. You know, I was born in Baltimore and I was
raised in southeast D.C. in PG County, Maryland. So I always go
back home to the hood when I think about these dynamics of, like, I'm a ghost.
Get you right. And it's like one of these things
where it gets down this deep. It's like, oh, you gonna come
and play? Okay, I'm gonna play too. If it's gonna

(47:36):
go down here, cool. If we get to make it go down at
dinner, Cool. Wherever it's gonna happen, it's gonna
happen. What you gonna do? Revenge,
rape, murder, all. Ah, wow.
Right. And so I feel like, I don't know, just
physically and viscerally looking at the language and trying to find
out where they are. I feel like we're at. It's
the fifth act, you know, and so I feel

(47:59):
like this is real scrappy. We get to other
scenes, but, like, if it went down, if
Shakespeare got tired, it could have gone down
as soon as he came downstairs. It could go
down. Anything can happen. So I like
riding that edge of madness
because since the first scene, they've been
at the edge of anything can happen. And I

(48:21):
think that's the temperature. It is funny, but then it
gets real dangerous and bloody, you know,
real quick it gets real funny, and then it's like oh, is
it? You know, but, like, either way, none
of these people are letting anybody go anywhere. It's going
down. And so I feel that temperature in the scene.
That's why I say. I think it's in the space of. In between
sliding up and down and Ha, ha, ha. Because

(48:44):
that's when it real gets. That's when it really gets scary, when the person that's
about to kill you laughs at you and slaps, smiles, and they're
both smiling right now. And that's how dangerous
it is, because nobody has anything
to lose. And so all the emotion
comes in those moments as you're bleeding to death, you
might laugh at the moon. And so that's the danger

(49:04):
and the laughter and the.

All of the.

>> Jamal (49:06):
All of the. All of the. All that I think also is
spoken about in this scene in the sign, too.

>> Nick (49:11):
I love that. Absolutely.
can. Can you. Can we continue on with the
same cast, Charlotte and Jamal, Would you guys mind
for this round reading, Chiron and
Demetrius? Charlotte read Demetrius, and
Jamal read Chiron, and I'll. I'll read
Marcus's one line. if you could forgive
me for that. can we go from where Titus

(49:34):
enters and then go all the way to
Tamara's? X it this time?
Just read that section through once
and we all get to be in it. How exciting.

So I first come. First come in?

>> Nick (49:48):
Yeah. From long have I forlorn and all for thee.
Please. Thank you.

One second.
Doesn't it start with Good Lord, no? Oh, long have I. I got it.
Okay, fine.

I see.

>> Nick (50:02):
Yeah, we'll go from where Titus enters. I
gotta get ready for my one line.

Yes, yes.

M. Oh, long have I been for
Lord, and awfully
welcome, Dread Fury, to my
woeful house divine.
And murder you are. Ah, welcome too.
all right. The empress and his sons. You are.
Where are you? You fitted, had you but

(50:32):
a Moor. Could not all hell afford you?
Well, are you fitted, had you but a Moor?
Could not all hell afford you such a devil?
For well, I want the empress never wags, but in
her company there is a Moor. And would you represent
our queen aright? It were convenient you had
such a devil, but welcome as you

(50:54):
are. What shall we do?

What would thou have us do, Andronicus?

>> Jamal (50:58):
M. Show me. That's
you.

Show me a murderer. I'll deal with him.

>> Jamal (51:06):
Show me a villain that hath done a rape, and I am sent
to be revenged on him.

Show me a thousand that have done the
wrong, and I will be Revenged on them
all.

Look round about the wicked streets of
Rome, and when thou find' st a man
that's like thyself, good Murder,
stab him. He's a murderer.
Go thou with him, and when, when it is thy
hap to find another that is like to thee, good
Rapine, stab him. He is a

(51:39):
ravisher. go thou with them, and in the emperor's
court there is a queen
attended by a Moor.
Well shalt thou know her by thine own proportion,
for up and down she doth resemble
thee. I pray thee, do on
them some violent death. that they have

(52:00):
been violent to me and mine.

Well, hast thou, lessened us this? Shall
we do. But
would it please thee, good Andronicus, to
send for Lucius, thy thrice valiant
son, who leads toward Rome a band of
warlike Goths, and bid him come and banquet at
thy house. When he is here, even at

(52:24):
thy solemn feast, I will bring in
the empress and her sons, the emperor
himself and all thy foes,
and at thy mercy shall they
stoop and kneel,
and on them shall thou ease thy
angry heart.

(52:44):
What says Andronicus to this device?

Marcus, my brother?
Tis sad Titus calls.
Go, gentle Marcus, to thy nephew
Lucius. Thou shalt inquire him out among the
Goths. Bid him repair to me and bring with
him some of the chiefest princes of the Goths.
Bid them him encamp his soldiers where they are.

(53:12):
Tell him the emperor and the empress too, feast at my
house, and he shall feast with them.
this do thou for my loving. So let him, as
he regards his aged father.
this do thou for my love, and so let him,
as he regards his aged father's life.

>> Nick (53:30):
This will I do, and soon return again.

Now will lie hence about thy business, and take
my ministers along with me.

No, nay, hey. Let
rape and murder stay with me, or else I'll
call my brother back and cleave
to no revenge but Lucius.

What say you, boys? Will you abide with him
while I go tell my lord the emperor how I
have governed our determined jest?
Yield to his humorous move, and speak him fair, and
tarry with him till I turn a.

I know them all, and though they
suppose me mad and will or reach them,
I know them all, though they suppose me mad, and
will all reach them in their own devices.
A pair of cursed hellhounds and
their damned Adam.

Departed pleasure.

>> Miranda (54:26):
Leave us here.

Farewell, Andronicus. Revenge now
comes, comes to lay a compl. To
betray thy foes.

I know thou dust, and sweet Revenge,
Farewell.

>> Nick (54:42):
Excellent. Thank you guys so
much. It's interesting that Shakespeare
chose to put that aside in there, where Titus
turns to the audience and says, I know
them. I'm not crazy. Don't worry about it.
But there is a sense, Jamal, of what you were talking
about. watching it as an audience.

(55:03):
You. It's really exciting because you have no
idea if somebody's gonna jump on somebody
else and just start hacking away at
any point. It's almost like the moment before
a, ah, shootout in an old Western. You know,
there's. There's that beautiful tension that's
happening.

(55:24):
Is there anything that you guys noticed during that read that you wanted to
talk about?

I think we have to remember that his.
He's got one arm, you know, he's got one hand gone,
you know, and. And. Which is a, ah, you
know, physical reminder of what he's been through, how he's been,
And. And humor that comes. The
possible humor that comes with it. I mean, does
he offer to shake. Shake the

(55:55):
boy's hand? You know, it's. You know, I
mean, there's. It just depends on where you. What alley
you want to go up, you know, I mean, absolutely, you know,
or it's hidden, maybe. You know, it's in. You never see
it. you know, it's all. It's
very interesting.
And.

>> Nick (56:15):
And it's interesting that he goes through each one of them
and he takes the time to describe each one of
them and let them know, gosh, you know, you. You look an awful
lot like Chiron and Demetrius.
I love that speech. Look
around the wicked streets of Rome. Excuse

(56:35):
me.

So that reminds me of the Lear thing.
He's talking about the justice, and he's talking about, you know, the
justice being the lecture and the. And so, you
know, all the correct. It's a sort of similar,
you know, madness sort of theme that runs through.

>> Nick (56:54):
I'm. I'm always surprised that Tamara
thinks that he is crazy enough to leave
the boys there. That's an amazing
choice, isn't it? very interesting. What do you think,
Angie?

There was a minute when I thought she doesn't think that much
of these two boys.

>> Nick (57:13):
Yeah, it's really interesting.

almost as though, well, I'll sacrifice
them for. I don't. I don't know whether
you.

>> Nick (57:23):
I mean, she must have a lot of confidence in their strength,
you know, that they're pretty tough boys and can handle
themselves, you know, I don't know. What. What do you think about that
section, Miranda?

>> Miranda (57:33):
Yeah, it's odd, isn't it? Because
she's so, she's really. She's so smart,
she's so focused. It seems like some kind of an aberration.
I think arguably she doesn't realize that Titus
actually has a lot of able bodied guys there,
you know, in the house. Publius and Valentine, whatever,
you know, whoever. Yeah, but, I kind of love that,

(57:54):
Angie, that maybe there's a. Well, you know,
maybe this isn't entirely safe, but they're
dispensable. You know, I'm just so.
I'm just so struck, listening
to all of you. And this is why I love, I love these
m. These, these workshops. Just how,
tonally complicated this scene

(58:15):
is, you know, and, and thinking,
Nick, thinking about what you were saying about very dark
productions and very humorous ones. And,
And I. For myself, I think if there's no humor
at all, that's really a missed opportunity with, with
this scene and with, you know, with, With many scenes
in the. In the play. But it's,
This scene is really complicated. And

(58:38):
until that moment, you know, Titus, he's not Hamlet. He's
not saying, you know, they fool me to the top of my bent.
He's not saying in an aside to the audience, you know,
I'm just. I'm just faking it, you know. but
until that, until that moment. So we don't know
where Titus is either. Exactly. And it's,
It's. It's very challenging I, I
think for her to perform.

>> Nick (59:00):
I think it's interesting that Shakespeare decided to
tell us, you know, at that moment, you
know, that he put that aside in there. And, and because there
is. The tension gets really strong for, an audience
during this part. You know, we're very concerned about
what's about to happen. And it's almost like he eases
us a little bit with that. I'm sorry, Tony, what were you going to say? I

(59:21):
interrupted you.

I was probably angry. Is going to say the same thing that he.
Shakespeare covers, Tamara
because she can have the suspicion, right, Angie?
And because it's Demetrius who says, look, this is
an old man with one hand. With one hand. What
the fuck? Excuse me? What can he do?
What can he do? He's an old man. We're young bucks. And you

(59:43):
know, so he sort of, you know, it's up
to Demetrius to convince Tamara to leave.
Because I think you're right.

But I wonder too if adding to that. But I wonder too
if he. And this is why maybe Shakespeare gives us the
aside. Is that it perhaps gives
us a clue in tracking the madness. Supposed
madness is that he's so convinced. Convincing.
He's so convincing that Tamara buys it.
Tamara buys it, and the. Possibly the audience

(01:00:12):
buys it. So Shakespeare was like, by the way, guys.

>> Nathan Agin (01:00:14):
Yeah, but then, but then why do we have. Why does he have Demetrius's
line?

>> Jamal Douglas (01:00:18):
I'm saying, I mean, Demetrius, you know, but I, I.
Tamara doesn't fight Demetrius.

>> Nathan Agin (01:00:24):
No, no, but I mean, he's responding to her doubt.

She doesn't protect.
Yeah, I, I mean, I wonder that.
That, you know, just to, to, you know,
crest that hill. That. Yeah, he's. He's a weak
old man. We don't know who else is in the house. And, he plays
it so well, and Demetrius. And I think
because it's the end of the play and these guys have lived as far as

(01:00:50):
they've lived, now there's a bit of hubris involved,
you know?

>> Nick (01:00:54):
Sure.

>> Nathan Agin (01:00:55):
Yes, yes.

>> Nick (01:00:56):
He says it because he, he says that one of them says, leave
us here, and the other one says, old man, tell
us, old man, how should we be employed?

>> Miranda (01:01:03):
You know, so, yeah, just to just
add to that. Yeah, the hubris,
exactly. I was thinking. And also, you know, Kaman and
Demetrius are stupider than Tamar, you know?
You know.

>> Nick (01:01:16):
Yeah.

>> Angie Bird (01:01:19):
Also, this aside, the other one was
simple. The aside. There, he was above and
there below. But this aside request requires
an actual physical move.
So there may be
a lot. There may be some space there
where.

>> Nick (01:01:38):
Directorially, stuff can happen.

>> Nathan Agin (01:01:40):
you know, I mean, if I, If I were doing this text and I were
directing it, I would pull that aside out,
have Demetrius deal with
Tamara's doubt or whatever it is, whatever
the hubris of the boys, and put the other one in
as Tamara's exiting. That's what I, I
would do. So it takes, you know, it covers.

>> Nick (01:02:01):
Her exit as well.

>> Nathan Agin (01:02:02):
Yeah, because it seems so odd. It really
hangs them up. Unless there is memetic stuff between the boys
and Tamara, that they're huddling about this
idea, I mean, which is possible too, I guess.

>> Jamal (01:02:14):
I was also.

>> Nick (01:02:15):
Sorry, Go ahead, Jamal.

>> Jamal (01:02:16):
I also had the question about how Titus is seen
in this world, about how he makes his choices. And
like, after everything that's. He's making choices from
a different type of passion because of what has happened directly
to his family and to him at this point. And at
first he's like, he kills his son, he
gives his daughter away. Like, all these things of questioning how

(01:02:37):
he makes his choices. And so there's also this Thing that I
think. And the fifth act of Titus and how he
makes choices and what has been stripped from him,
and what he feels like he is lacking now
after being put on this pedestal. Like, I
think there is a psychosis of seeing, and which is
why maybe they come to convince him

(01:02:57):
because, like, his choices are seemingly coming
outside of himself in the world in the way that he might be
perceived from his family at one point. And then all these
things that's happening. And so there's also, I think,
with our intellect working it out on the
backside, I think within the world of,
these beings,

(01:03:18):
there is things that are not
all the way there. He's making choices from a different point
at this time. Like, he's been played. He knows he's been
played. He's known. Maybe not. No, consciously,
but he's made decisions that has created this
chaos as well. and that's something
that's just coming up the. The consciousness. Like, oh, maybe they came to convince

(01:03:38):
him because maybe his choices have been questionable.

>> Nick (01:03:42):
There's a. There's another. There's another thing, another
character in this scene that is not in the scene that,
Tamara's major concern is Lucius
is out there with an army.
So I. I think that also, like m. Maybe she's
less concerned about Titus. This is all about getting
Titus to get Lucius in a room so they can kill
him and get rid of that imposing

(01:04:04):
army that's out there. you know, they don't
realize the biggest danger to them is
right in front of them is Titus.
Very cool. Very cool. Let's. Let's read
on and switch it up a little bit.
Tony and Angie, can you guys read Chiron
and, Publius in this scene?

(01:04:25):
I think. I don't think Demetrius says anything,
anymore. Let's see where we are.
Say, boys, abide with him. Tamara
exits. So we're on line one,
hundred fifty two. tell us,
old man, how shall we be employed?

>> Nathan Agin (01:04:46):
is that me or is that Angie?

>> Nick (01:04:47):
Tony, would you mind reading Chiron and Angie, could you read
Publius?

>> Nathan Agin (01:04:51):
Sure, sure.

>> Nick (01:04:52):
Thank you. And then,
let's see. Charlotte, would you read Titus for us
in this scene? Awesome.

>> Nathan Agin (01:05:03):
Tell us, old man, how shall
we be employed?

I have work enough for you to do.
Publius, come hither. Caius and Valentine.
yeah.

>> Angie Bird (01:05:17):
What is your will?

Know you these two, the emperor's
sons.

>> Angie Bird (01:05:23):
I take them Chiron and Demetrius.

Bye, Polius. I. Thou art much
too much to see. The one
is murder and rape is
the other's name. And therefore bind them.
Gentle Publius, Caius and. And Valentine,
lay hands on them. Oft have you heard
me wish for such an hour.

(01:05:47):
Now I find it. Therefore bind
them sure. And stop their mouths if they
begin to cry.

>> Nathan Agin (01:05:54):
Villains, forbear witness. We are the empress's
sons.

>> Angie Bird (01:05:58):
and therefore do we what we are commanded.
Stop their mouths. Let them not speak a word.
Is he sure? Bound?
Look that you bind them fast.

Come, live in.

>> Nick (01:06:27):
I think we lost you for a second. Charlotte, could you start that
speech over for us?

There's mouths I utter.
Nope.

>> Nick (01:06:38):
Yeah, you cut out on us just for a minute. do you want to
try and go from. Come, come, Lavinia. One
more time. Thanks so much.

Come, come, Lavinia.

>> Angie Bird (01:06:52):
Look.

Thy foes are bound. Sirs, stop their
mouths. Let them, not speak to me,
but let them hear what fearful words I
utter. Oh,
villains Chiron and
Demetrius. Here stands
the spring whom you have stained with mud

(01:07:15):
this goodly summer with your winter mixed.
You killed her husband, and for that vile
fault two of her brothers were condemned to death.
My hand cut off and made a
merry jest. Both her
sweet hands, her tongue, and
that more dear than hands or

(01:07:35):
tongue, her spotless chastity
inhuman traitors, you constrained and
forced.

>> Miranda (01:07:43):
Forced.

>> Angie Bird (01:07:45):
What would you say if I should let you speak?

Villains, for shame you
could not beg for grace.
Hark, wretches.
I mean to martyr you.
This one hand left is left to cut
your throat, whiles that Lavinia tween herself
stump. stuff. Hold the basin. That receives.

(01:08:17):
Guilty blood and thinks me
mad ark.
Villains, I will grind your
bones to dust. And with your
blood and it I'll make a paste.
And of the paste, a coffin I will rear. And
make two pasty pasties. pasties of your

(01:08:37):
shameful heads. And bid that
strumpet your unhallowed
dam.

>> Miranda (01:08:43):
Like to the earth, swallow her
own increase.

This is the feast that I have bid her too. And this
the banquet, she shall surf it on
for worse than Philomel. You used my
daughter. And worse than. Proceed.
I don't know that one. I will be revenged.
And now prepare your throats.
Lavinia, come.

>> Angie Bird (01:09:12):
Receive the blood.

And when that they are dead, let me
go grind their bones to powder small.
And with this hateful liquor, temper it.
And in that paste let their vile heads be
baked. Come, come, be
everyone officious to make this banquet, which
I wish may prove more stern and bloody

(01:09:35):
than the Centaur's feast.
So now, bring them in
for I'll play the cook and see them
ready against their mother comes.

>> Nick (01:09:49):
Whoa.
That is the speech that we've been waiting for
while watching this show.
There's always a finally,
Finally.
It's very beautiful and very clear, though. It's a,

(01:10:11):
I don't know. Tell. How, how did it feel for you, Charlotte?

There's a lot of repetition in it, which, you know,
Shakespeare's very
deliberate about. so there's this.
Yeah, I think you're right. There's, there's, there's almost a blossoming
for him. There's this, like,
you know, moment.
and so that repetition really feeds that. Like, I'm

(01:10:42):
gonna do it. I'm really gonna do it. Yeah, let's do it. And
the details start to, you know, like, the buffet of
it.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I, I wonder,
and I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder how much of it is
premeditated and how much of it is like. And this fun
detail, you know, like these, these, these

(01:11:04):
discoveries. I, I don't know. Like, is it just like.
I, I don't know. Yeah, it was fun to read. It's hella fun to read.

>> Nick (01:11:14):
Yeah, it's interesting. I wonder, like, how,
he's been planning for this
moment, you know, I, I wonder, like, what
his. And, and it. What it. What
is, Publius and Caius and Valentine
doing there? You know, like, is this,
Does he have them around for a reason, or are they just

(01:11:36):
in the scene? Or is this all something that, that
Titus has been aware, it was
coming? I'm not sure. Jamal, what did you think?
Did you get a feeling listening to that?

>> Jamal (01:11:47):
I love this. I just love it.
The thing that keeps coming to my mouth. And I'm a tourist,
so I'm very good on. I love taste. It's like food
and it's like the enjoyment of making
a pie, the meditation of
it. The texture, the different
layers. And that's what I was feeling in that speech. It's

(01:12:08):
like, maybe premeditated, but you don't know
until you get in the kitchen and you smell
what it smells like. And you know what it's going to
give that you're giving. And so the intention of
making, of making a pie, I think, is what's
oozing through the language as he creates
what he is going to do.

(01:12:30):
And he might taste the image. I feel like he might be the dude that taste
test while he's making the pie, you know?
So I'm thinking A lot about the imagery that is coming out, the
grinding. Like, he takes you through the process. I think,
it's repetitive in a sense, because, like, he's
talking about what he's. He's doing
this to a body, y'.

>> Nick (01:12:49):
All.

>> Jamal (01:12:51):
He's doing this to a body, you
know, and so it's literally talking about
breaking down a human body
to let it sit in an oven, to let it cool
by the window, to then put. Get ready and
prepare for a banquet.
And so there's lusciousness in all of

(01:13:11):
this. And I think there is a. Ooh, that might taste good,
too. Ooh, maybe a little cinnamon, you know, and so something
gets a little sweet. But he knows why
at this point. And so that's what's coming up for me. Just all those
tasty, wonderful, sensual,
igniting things to drive the language. And I'm hearing it
in, what's coming out. So that's what's coming up for me.

>> Nick (01:13:31):
Yeah. The image of. For me, of Lavinia holding
this bowl with, you know, with these
stumps while he does this speech is incredibly
shocking. And, What is this from
Ovid's Metamorphosis, Miranda? Is that where
Shakespeare's getting this?

>> Miranda (01:13:46):
yeah, yeah. yeah.
It's a story of Philomel and Procne, and
Procny's husband falls in love with
Philomel and rapes her and cuts out her tongue.
And, together the sisters
plot a horrible revenge. and of course, then it's preceded
by what is one of my favorite scenes in Shakespeare,

(01:14:07):
when Lavinia is chasing after her nephew,
young Lucius, who's got Ovid's Metamorphoses there.
And, you know, why is my aunt following me? And Marcus says,
you know, do not fear thine aunt. You know, Lavinia,
what's going on? And she, you know, tries with her stumps
to find the page with the story of Philomel
and Procne, and then is able to, you know, to explain that this

(01:14:27):
is what happened to her. but
what I love about this speech is that
the description and the detailed description,
as Jamal was saying, is part of the
torture that he's inflicting. It's part of the revenge
that he's inflicting on Chiron and Demetrius. And that's one
thing that the. The Taymor film, I think, just

(01:14:48):
captures so well. It's that. That horrifying scene
where they're stripped naked, duct tape across their mouths,
suspended upside down with their hands bound and
you know, Anthony Hopkins having way too much fun, but he's great
in this scene, you know, really just favoring every
word. And. Yes, okay, we all remember he played Hannibal Lecter in
a movie that I will never, never see. But I know what it's about,

(01:15:08):
and he definitely is evoking that in the scene.
But just this idea that, that, language
can be a way to torture and torment, I think
is. Is really extraordinary, especially when we remember
that Shakespeare was just at the start of his career,
here. So it's. It's really. It's a. It's a great speech, and I'll
have more to say about pies the next time.

It's funny. There's the cliche now of, like, you know,
every Bond movie where the villains, like. And now I'll
explain everything before I.

>> Angie Bird (01:15:36):
Do.

One of the original, you know, like, when it was first
started, you.

>> Jamal (01:15:42):
Know, and it's, something that we. That we
haven't mentioned really, too. Like, he's describing what he's going to do to
them. What happened to Lavinia,
what happened to her body? And she's
still here with her hands gone and her
tongue cut out. I'm gonna tell you every
thing I'm about to do to you.

(01:16:03):
And you go and sit here. I'm going to take my time.
Right. And that's interesting, too. I just thought about, like, I'm talking about
this, like. No, Lavinia is
literally sitting here in the room with
blood drawing out into a bucket in front of her and
her father telling these two men what he's going to do
to them, when he's going to do what he's going to do to

(01:16:24):
her. And she's told
to watch this and.

Yeah, and I did wonder that he
loses humanity here a little bit.

>> Nathan Agin (01:16:34):
And.

And he keeps saying, lavinia, Lavinia, Lavinia. So I wonder
how much she does not want to participate.

>> Nick (01:16:41):
Yeah, he keeps bringing her over, doesn't he?

Yeah.

>> Nick (01:16:44):
Yeah. I really love that line where he says,
this goodly summer with your winter
mixed beautiful
language right there and vicious. And it kind
of reminds me of Richard III a little bit.

>> Miranda (01:16:58):
Totally. And maybe it's because Nick and Jamal, we just did
Richard ii, but this whole
business of Titus aloft and then coming
down. You know, we see this over and over again in Shakespeare. This,
alternate planes and then meeting on the same plane,
descending into the light, into the darkness,
whatever it may be.

>> Nick (01:17:20):
Yeah. Julie Tamar went on a whole thing where she,
brightened his costumes towards the end
she started Titus in this dark, gray
blackness. And by the end, he's wearing all white with a chef's
hat. And, you know, he. He really comes into his own
through his revenge,
essentially. excellent, excellent.

(01:17:40):
is there anything that you want to add, Angie and Tony,
after listening to that section?

>> Nathan Agin (01:17:45):
Well, you know, it's. It's
in the text, what I've written down. He says it right. And
I'm going to do what I wrote down. So the question
becomes. I mean, it's the very first thing he says, because you were asking
earlier, does he know what he's going to do? Is
that what that is? I mean, he doesn't know
they're going to show up. Yeah, but the

(01:18:05):
banquet is, the notion, you know, and also,
you know, I mean, that's in
of it too. You know, the, feeding. The. Feeding
the children to the. The mother or the
father is like. It seems to be a theme.

>> Miranda (01:18:20):
That's the vengeance.

>> Nathan Agin (01:18:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But,
Yeah, but, you know, I. I didn't know,
that Procne was married to
Theresis. Theresis that
it was actually. And, you know, I didn't realize that she
was, taking revenge on the ravisher of her
sister and her husband. It was very interesting

(01:18:44):
to me. I never knew that.

>> Miranda (01:18:45):
Yeah. Yeah. And just the themes of
female solidarity and of course, you know, thinking. I
was thinking earlier about the. The way these arguments keep getting
repeated. Angie, I think you were saying that, that,
Tamron initially appeals to Titus as a
fellow parent. Spare. You know, spare my child. And he's
in repeated, immovable. Levidia will then appeal to

(01:19:05):
Tamara as a. As a woman and
telling, you know, stop your sons from doing this woman to woman.
And she. She's not persuaded. So just these.
These arguments just keep getting played out and they
keep not working, you know.

>> Nathan Agin (01:19:18):
You know. You know, it's interesting because we're. We're leaving out of. There was
Lucius who pleaded that this has to happen.
Yes, it was Lucius who said, no, Father, you
can't. You can't let our brother. Our brother won't be able
to go to heaven or whatever. Wherever.

>> Nick (01:19:33):
Right.

>> Nathan Agin (01:19:33):
He's talking about.

>> Miranda (01:19:34):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

>> Nathan Agin (01:19:37):
So it wasn't all. It wasn't all Titus. It's,
you know, it's one of those decisions in war, and it's sort
of, I don't know, very. There's something about
Titus that reminds me of Colin Powell.
Absolutely. in terms of the duty, do you
think Colin Powell didn't know that there wasn't
sufficient evidence about Iraq. I

(01:19:58):
don't.

>> Miranda (01:19:59):
Or see. Of course he knew.

>> Nathan Agin (01:20:00):
He knew and he took. Because that's
what military people do. They.
They, you know, right down to the end, you want. You'll hardly
hear any active or, even unactive, you
know, retired military. There aren't that many who are speaking
out right now because there's a code.
And it's sort of interesting. I mean, I think of Titus

(01:20:21):
in a kind of way that he follows that code. Yeah. These are the
rules of Rome. And yes, I could have been the emperor, but this
is. We don't do it that way. We do it this way.
And then all of a sudden, when he's pleading for something,
they turn their back on him. So not only is he violated
by the. The foreigners in the play, if
you will, he's. He's also betrayed by the

(01:20:43):
very thing he's lived for, for. It's very Coriolanus,
like, in terms of coming back to Rome, you know,
Lucius with the army, he's sort of. It's very. This.
Now, tell me if I'm wrong. This is, This is after,
This is late Rome, before the fall. Right. Before
it's not early Rome. Before it's just before it all
collapses. Yeah.

>> Miranda (01:21:03):
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Nathan Agin (01:21:06):
It's interesting.

>> Miranda (01:21:07):
Yeah. Just the. The decadence of. Of
the empire when it's on the brink of collapse.

>> Nathan Agin (01:21:13):
Yeah. Yeah.

>> Miranda (01:21:14):
Which is so. I mean, we see that right on through
the Hunger Games.

>> Nathan Agin (01:21:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Nick (01:21:20):
It is interesting to think, though, that you're right.
Lucius kind of starts it all off
when he says, ad manus fratrum
in the first scene, you know,
which is, you know, it. It has to be done for my
brothers, basically. And then he's the one that lives
in the end.

>> Miranda (01:21:38):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:21:38):
It's fascinating.

>> Angie Bird (01:21:40):
It also seems to me that these
are. These are
people that are seemingly concerned about their
children, but only as their children
reflect on them. They
seem to have no care for these children
as individuals.

(01:22:02):
They are only as they are. Are part
of my
heritage, or whatever, because they.
They treat them like pawns.

>> Nathan Agin (01:22:14):
Yeah. There's something very Bushido about
this play, too.

>> Angie Bird (01:22:18):
Very.

>> Nathan Agin (01:22:18):
What sort of Bushido? You know, the, The
samurai code thing.
you, dishonored me here, take the sword. Go in the corner
and in front of us all, just gut
yourself.

>> Nick (01:22:30):
Yeah, yeah.

>> Nathan Agin (01:22:31):
You know.

>> Miranda (01:22:31):
Yeah. Including in. In,
Titus's insistence that. That, you know, it's
horrible for Lavinia to, you know, have her hands chopped off
and her tongue cut out. But the worst thing was the violation of her
chastity, which is just such a. I mean, we see that in so many
oppressive, patriarchal societies that. That a
woman is raped, and it's. It's considered a dishonor

(01:22:51):
to her father, to her brothers, whoever she's killed.
which is always depressing to see.

>> Nathan Agin (01:22:58):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:23:00):
Fascinating. Well, let's, Let's. Let's read
it again. And
let. Let's give, Jamal a chance at Titus
this time. Let's. Let's go through,
Let's see. We'll just go through the first half of it.
I think. Can we go to,
Well, let's see. Let's go a little further than that.

(01:23:22):
Let's just read down to
Tamara's exit. Is. Is that
okay? with you guys? Which is.
Let's see. It's
about half of it.

>> Nathan Agin (01:23:35):
Is it?

>> Nick (01:23:36):
Yeah. Line 151.
And, we have Chiron and Demetrius. So
let's do, Angie,
can you read Tamara in this, And Jamal, you
read Titus. Tony,
you read Demetrius, and, Charlotte, you read Chiron.

(01:23:57):
Just for this one, and then we'll switch it up in the second half.
Thank you, guys.

>> Nathan Agin (01:24:02):
Yep.

>> Angie Bird (01:24:08):
Thus, in this, strange and sad
habiliment, I will encounter with
Andronicus and say,
I am, revenge, sent from below to
join him and right his heinous
wrongs. Knock at
his study, where they say he keeps to
ruminate strange plots of dire revenge.

(01:24:30):
Tell him revenge
is come to join with him and work
confusion on his enemies.

>> Jamal (01:24:40):
Who doth, molest my contemplation?
Is it your trick to make me ope the door that
so my sad decrees may fly away and all my
study be to no effect?
You are deceived for what I mean
to do. See here, in bloody lines,
I have set down, and what is

(01:25:02):
written shall be executed.

>> Angie Bird (01:25:05):
Titus, I come to talk with thee.

>> Jamal (01:25:08):
No, not a word.
How can I grace my talk, Wanting a hand to give it
action? Thou hast the
odds of me, therefore no
more.

>> Angie Bird (01:25:22):
If thou didst know me, thou wouldst talk with
me.

>> Jamal (01:25:28):
I am not mad.
I know thee well enough.
Witness this wretched stone.
Witness these crimson lines.
Witness these trenches made of grief
and care. Witness the tiring day

(01:25:48):
and heavy night.
Witness all sorrow that I know thee well.
For our, ah, proud empress, mighty
Tamara.
Is not thy coming for my other hand?

>> Angie Bird (01:26:05):
Know, thou sad man, I am not
the Tamara. She is
thy enemy and I thy friend.
I am revenge,
sent from the internal,
sent from the infernal kingdom to

(01:26:26):
ease the gnawing vulture of my mind
by working a wreckful
vengeance on thy foes.
Come down and welcome me to this world
of light. Confer with me of murder
and death.
There's not a hollow cave or

(01:26:47):
lurking place, no vast obscurity
or misty m veil where bloody
murder or detested rape
can couch for fear. But I
will find them out.

>> Nathan Agin (01:27:02):
And.

>> Angie Bird (01:27:02):
In their ears tell them my dreadful name,
Revenge, which
makes the foul offender quake.

>> Jamal (01:27:15):
Art, thou Revenge?
And art thou sent to me to be a
torment to mine enemies?

>> Angie Bird (01:27:26):
Therefore come down and welcome
me.

>> Jamal (01:27:32):
Do me some service ere I come to thee.
Lo, by thy side, where rape and murder stands.
Now give some assurance to Thou art Revenge.
Stab them or tear them on thy
chariot's wheels, and then I'll come and be thy
waggoner and whirl along with them about the globe.
Provide thee two proper palfreys, black as jet, to

(01:27:55):
hail thy vengeful wagon. Swift away
and find out murderers in their guilty
cage. And when thy car
is loaded with their heads,
I will dismount, and by the wagon
will trot like a servile footman
all day long, even from

(01:28:16):
Hyperion's rising in the east,
until his very downfall
in the sea.
And day by day I'll do this heavy task.
So thou destroy rapin and
murder.

>> Nathan Agin (01:28:31):
There.

>> Angie Bird (01:28:32):
These are my ministers and come with me.

>> Jamal (01:28:36):
are they your ministers?
What are they called?

>> Angie Bird (01:28:42):
Rape and Murder.
Therefore, Colin, so.
Cause they take vengeance on such like men.

>> Jamal (01:28:53):
Lord, how like the empress sons they are.
Then you the empress,
for we worldly men have miserable, mad,
mistaking the eyes. O
sweet Revenge, now do I come to
thee. And if one arm's, embracement will content
thee, I will embrace thee in it by and by.

>> Angie Bird (01:29:16):
This closing within fits his lunacy,
whate' er I forge to feed his brain. Sick
humours do you uphold and maintain
in your speeches, for now
he firmly takes me for revenge.
And being credulous in this mad thought,
I'll make him send for Lucius his son.

(01:29:39):
And whilst I at a banquet hold him, sure
I'll find some cunning practice out of hand to
scatter and disperse the giddy Goths,
or at least make them his enemies.
See, here he comes. I must ply my theme.

>> Jamal (01:29:56):
Long have I been forlorn, and all for thee.
Welcome, dread Fury, to my woeful
house. Rapine and Murder, you are welcome too.
How like the empress and her sons you are.
Well are you fitted, had you but a Moor
could not all hell afford you such a devil? For well

(01:30:18):
I wot the empress never wags, but in her company
there is a Moor. And
would you represent our queen aright? It
were convenient you had such a devil.
But, welcome as you are.
What shall we do?

>> Angie Bird (01:30:37):
What wouldst thou, have us do, Andronicus?

>> Nathan Agin (01:30:40):
Show me a murderer. I'll deal with him.

Show me a villain that has done, a rape, and I am sent
to be revenged on him.

>> Angie Bird (01:30:46):
Show me a thousand that hath done thee
wrong, and I will be revenged on them
all.

>> Miranda (01:30:57):
Look, ah.

>> Jamal (01:30:58):
Round about the wicked streets of Rome.
And when thou find' st a man that like thyself,
good murder, stab him.
He's a murderer. Go
thou with him. And when it is thy
hap to find another that is
like, go thou

(01:31:18):
with him. And when it is thy hap
to find another that is like to thee,
good repin, stab him.
He is a ravisher.
Go thou with them. And in the emperor's court
there is a queen attended by a Moor.

(01:31:39):
Well, shalt thou know her by thine own proportion,
for up and down she doth resemble thee.
I pray thee, do on them some
violent death. They
have been violent to me and
mine.

>> Angie Bird (01:31:57):
Well, hast thou lessened us. This shall we do.
But would it please thee,
good Andronicus, to send for Lucius, thy
thrice valiant son, who leads towards
Rome a band of warlike Goths, and bid him
come and banquet at thy house.
When he is here, even at thy solemn feast,

(01:32:17):
I will bring the empress and her sons, the
emperor himself and. And all thy
foes. And
at thy mercy shall they stoop
and kneel,
and on them shalt thou ease thy
angry heart.

(01:32:37):
What says Andronicus to this device?

>> Jamal (01:32:42):
Marcus, my brother. Tis sad. Titus
calls. Gold.
Gentle Marcus, to thy nephew Lucius.
Thou shalt inquire him out among the Goths.
Bid him repair to me, and bring with him some
of the chiefest princes of the gods.
Bid him encamp his soldiers where they are. Tell

(01:33:04):
him the emperor and the empress too, feast at my
house, and he shall feast with them.
This do thou for my love, and so let him,
as he regards his aged father.

>> Nick (01:33:16):
This will I do, and soon return again.

>> Angie Bird (01:33:19):
Now will I hence about thy business and take my
ministers along with me.

>> Jamal (01:33:24):
Nay, nay. Let rape and murder stay with me, or else I'll
call my brother back again and cleave to no revenge but
Lucius.

>> Angie Bird (01:33:36):
What say you, boys?
Will you abide with him whilst I
go tell my lord the emperor how I have
governed Our determined jest.
Yield to his humorous move and speak
him fair, and tarry with him till I turn again.

>> Jamal (01:33:59):
I knew them all, though they suppose it be
mad and will all reach them in
their own devices. A pair
of cursed hellbounds and their
damned.

>> Nathan Agin (01:34:12):
Madam, departed pleasure.
Leave us here.

>> Angie Bird (01:34:19):
Farewell, Andronicus.
Revenge now goes to lay
a cum plot to betray thy
foes.

>> Jamal (01:34:29):
I know thou dost. And
sweet revenge.

>> Nick (01:34:43):
Ah, excellent. It's already very
clear. Oh, my God. You know, Tony, listening to that, I.
I would totally move that aside.

>> Nathan Agin (01:34:51):
Yeah. Ah, yeah.

>> Nick (01:34:51):
where you said it would really. It could really fit right there at
the end on Tam.

>> Nathan Agin (01:34:55):
Like I said, you know, this is where it's hard
to, you know, talk about the text away from
the. From the, From the staging of it.
Because that conference when they're going.
Tamara's going, yes, no. Yes, no. And the two
boys that could be going on during
Diamonds aside, you see. And that absolutely as

(01:35:15):
well. Whereas in this way, you can't. You
can't do it because, you know, has, Something
has to be going on. Because it's an aside. Clearly they're doing
something.

>> Angie Bird (01:35:25):
You know, someone's at my door. Give me one second.

>> Nathan Agin (01:35:28):
Sure.

>> Nick (01:35:28):
Yeah, no problem. It's funny, Julie, Tamar was talking
about this, and she. She said, you know,
there. There's a pearl within this oyster.
it's not a perfect play, that, you know,
it's a play that is meant to be performed. So,
yes, you know, she was making, you know,
excuses, ah, for cutting. For moving some things around.

(01:35:50):
You know, I think that there. There is
some. Some room for that. But
listening to this scene, I. I wouldn't.
I wouldn't take a line out of it. I really.
There's a balance in the language. This is a really well
constructed scene.

>> Nathan Agin (01:36:06):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:36:06):
I even noticed this time that, you know,
Tamara has this beautiful speech where she's in the
beginning on sort of line. Line
29, I believe, you know,
where she says there's not a hollow cave or
lurking place, no vast obscurity or misty
veil. She's really going, You know, this is

(01:36:28):
some beautiful, flowery language that seems like she's
enjoying this character that she's playing. And then
Titus matches her speech when he comes
back in with this. Do me some service. And
they're almost about the same length with the same type of
language. And it feels like. I, don't know.
There. There feels like this energy battle that's happening right
there in the very Beginning of the scene that I really noticed.

(01:36:51):
I wrote it. I wrote it down.
I thought it. I thought it was beautiful. One thing that was
sticking out to me and Miranda is the.
Where Titus goes on and he's saying,
witness all of these. These things.

>> Miranda (01:37:04):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:37:04):
Witness the stone. Witness these trenches made
by grief. Witness. You know, he's trying
for something there. And. And. And I'm not sure what it
is yet, but I thought we could talk about that,
that section a little bit. What
is. What is Titus trying. Trying to do
there? Jamal, what do you think of that section? Do you want to

(01:37:25):
read just that little section for us once? I am not mad.

>> Jamal (01:37:29):
Absolutely. I am not mad.
I know thee well enough.
Witness this wretched stump.
Witness these crimson lines.
Witness these trenches made by grief and
care. Witness the tiring day and
heavy night. Witness all sorrow that I know

(01:37:49):
thee well. For our proud empress,
mighty Tamara.
It's not that coming from my other hand.
So reading it that time is like, I know who you are
because look at all these things you have created.
See, this all dresses up that
it's you.

>> Nick (01:38:08):
The game hasn't started yet. Yeah. This is interesting. He
doesn't know what the game is going to be.

>> Jamal (01:38:13):
Yeah. Yeah. So he's like, see.

>> Nathan Agin (01:38:15):
See you.

>> Jamal (01:38:16):
See you.

>> Nathan Agin (01:38:16):
See you. See you.

>> Jamal (01:38:18):
m. And I don't know. I don't know if I would say he doesn't know what the game
is going to be yet. I mean, of course he doesn't, but,
like, I feel like I do. Like, he knows. He
knows. Like, like Tony said, he's not mad. And
so he's saying, look at all this. How can I not know that this is you? It's clear
as day.

>> Nick (01:38:35):
Yeah.

>> Jamal (01:38:36):
My body can't forget you. You know,
you could be walking down the street. I'm gonna feel you down the block.

>> Nick (01:38:43):
It's cool how Tamara says. Says, no,
thou sad man. but it's K,
N, o, W. A lot of times I wish the audience
of the working actors journey could see the script
as well, so they could see what's going on. But that's cool, because we
hear. No, but, you know, it's
a little more to that. And I.

(01:39:06):
I, love those little. Those little moments that Shakespeare gives us.

>> Jamal (01:39:09):
And there's more in that for Tamara, actually.
I think, because she is literally revenge.
She's like, no, this is not who I am.
This is. My revenge is a way that. That can be
perceived as well. And it's like we're so much more than
the darkest parts of ourselves. And we forget that all these
characters are still mothers and children of someone
else. And then also fighting wars and then lovers of someone

(01:39:31):
else. And so that line is what it
says. I am not. No, I am not,
Tamara. I am. Revenge is kind
of like coming, becoming that thing. And going back to your point,
this play is about this thing. They become the thing.
But they forget their humanity, in a sense.

>> Miranda (01:39:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Nick (01:39:51):
It's so strange. It's almost like the best mood we've seen
Titus in
in so long during this scene. Because.
Because the revenge is right in front of him,
you know, and somebody playing revenge. And
it's actually his revenge. I think he recognizes, you
know, I love that he jumps in the game. And then
immediately he's playing along with, do, do me some service,

(01:40:13):
er, I come to thee.
You know, that's almost Hamlet esque. Toying
with Polonius. You know, it's,
It's him taking some time to relish in what's going
on. What do you think, Tony, about that section?

>> Nathan Agin (01:40:30):
Yeah, I think, you know,
I am not mad. This wretched
stumps bears witness that I am not mad.
You know, if you were to paraphrase these crimson
lines remind you. I. Remind me. I am not
mad. These trenches m. These wrinkles made my grief
remind me. I'm not mad.

>> Jamal (01:40:50):
I'm aware.

>> Nathan Agin (01:40:51):
The timing of the day remind me I am not mad.

>> Nick (01:40:54):
Yeah.

>> Nathan Agin (01:40:54):
And because I'm that mad, I know who you
are. You're tomorrow.

>> Angie Bird (01:40:58):
Are, those witnesses. Commands. Look at this.
Look at this.

>> Nick (01:41:02):
Look.

>> Nathan Agin (01:41:02):
Yes. It could be that.

>> Nick (01:41:03):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's.

>> Nathan Agin (01:41:05):
It's.

>> Nick (01:41:06):
It's so. It's a strong word, Witness. You know,
it's. It's different than see, you know, it's.

>> Nathan Agin (01:41:12):
It bear witness.

>> Nick (01:41:14):
Yeah. It's like. It is a command. It's like an action
that he wants her to take.

>> Jamal (01:41:19):
I am conscious. I am aware of everything
that is happening around me. I
am not mad. My eyes are wide
open. Everything I'm about to do.
I know.

>> Nick (01:41:33):
And then he comes back later when he's playing the game,
though, and he says, but we worldly men have miserable,
mad, mistaking eyes.
you know, because all of a sudden he's like, okay.
I really love that he takes the time to play this,
you know?

>> Nathan Agin (01:41:49):
You know, the other thing we forget. Tamara.
Tamara is revenge. She
actually is revenge because she's revenging her son on.

>> Nick (01:41:58):
That's right. Yeah.

>> Nathan Agin (01:41:59):
We. We. You lose track of that in the play. She doesn't.
You Know. But she's still on to that. Yes,
Lucius. I mean, if you. It depends if you make
her. it's all about strategy, but, you
know, it's also that, you know, they're both.
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:42:14):
They both want revenge on the other.

>> Nathan Agin (01:42:16):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Nick (01:42:19):
That's a fascinating thing about this play. And
then it. It's hard to say, really,
you know, who. Who is in the
wrong in this scene, you know, because they're
both. They're both fighting for their children in
a way. I mean.

>> Nathan Agin (01:42:34):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:42:35):
Almost less so. It's more about his. It's more
about Rome.

>> Nathan Agin (01:42:39):
Yes. Yeah.

>> Nick (01:42:41):
That's why the Colin Powell thing comes out.

>> Nathan Agin (01:42:44):
Right. And. And, you know, to me, Tammer going after,
Titus is 100%. But. And. And
the notion of killing,
Is it Bassanio that, That's with Lavinia, who
she's supposed to marry.

>> Nick (01:42:57):
Yeah.

>> Nathan Agin (01:43:00):
Killing him. But all of a sudden, when it. When it devolves
into, you know, Ray, I mean, which
McCall was killed, ceremonially, if that's
possible. In other words, he was killed as a victim, as
a. As a prisoner of war.
Lavinia has killed anything. But that way, she's
killed with relics. And, you

(01:43:20):
know, I mean, it's a whole different thing. And it.
I think the notion of, Of the way vengeance
works is, You know, the whole thing of, okay,
you. You. You beat my friend with a stick, I
will come with a metal pipe. You
come with a metal pipe. I will come with a knife.
You come with a knife. I will come with a gun. You come with it.
You know, and the notion of vengeance, to me is that, you know, having played

(01:43:42):
Iago a couple of times, I'm always amazed that
people think, well, why does he do that? We live in a time
when if you look at someone the wrong way, they don't just
shoot you. They shoot everyone on the stump.
They just come and they just clear out the whole thing.
And it's sort of not seeing our. The violence in our own
society sometimes. That's fascinating in a kind

(01:44:04):
of way, because it's. You know, again, when I was in high school,
you know, two guys did something together
and they fought. And maybe their friends would fight. Yeah. You
know, maybe their friends would fight.

>> Miranda (01:44:14):
No.

>> Nathan Agin (01:44:14):
no. No. Yeah.

>> Nick (01:44:16):
Yeah.

>> Jamal (01:44:17):
And it's that whole thing, too, in this world as well,
that keeps coming up for me from that first scene,
like. And to your point, I think,
is that they had an opportunity to stop it, but because
they wanted to finish Something that is why the war is continually.
And I can't never look at Shakespeare without seeing the
world. Because that's exactly what it is because of

(01:44:40):
what happened. You know, it's like. Oh,
it's like this concept as humans that we
really do have. Like we end up doing to others
what has happened to us and we don't even realize it. We
can use philosophy or intellect to talk
ourselves out of it and we don't realize we're fighting
ourselves. And that, that. I think that's the question of this

(01:45:00):
plague. That's why that first scene starts. When everything is done and
they're here, can we lay it down and save
someone's child? And this world
decides, nah, we, ah, keep
going. And that's why the play starts and that's why it
ends the way that it does.

>> Miranda (01:45:16):
Though I agree 100%. And I think also that's what
was so radical about the ending of the Tamor film. You know,
with the, with young Lucius Oshoshee Jones,
the actor carrying off Aaron's baby into a
new dawn. And you know, okay, maybe a little heavy handed on the
symbolism, but, but it's, it was a radical
reimagining of the ending and the possibilities.

(01:45:37):
I love. Jamal, what you were saying with the whole Witness,
Witness, Witness speech, it's written on his body
and I think there's almost something ritualistic about the
repetition there of those. Witness, Witness. You're
being called to witness.

>> Nick (01:45:49):
ritualistic. That's really interesting.
Absolutely.

And, and if to get super nerdy here, I'm
looking at the folio and
they've broken the line. So witness this
wretched stump. And then the next line starts.
Witness these crimson lines. So on, looking at it on
the page, there's. It's literally five witnesses just
down the page.

>> Miranda (01:46:12):
Yeah.

Ah, it's just looking at it, it's very
stark. It's. And it's very, it
feels almost preacher, like totally.

>> Nick (01:46:19):
There's a, there's a religious, like a spell,
you know, that's why it.

>> Miranda (01:46:24):
Incantation.

>> Nick (01:46:25):
Incantation. Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah. There's something
spiritual about it. Well, let's,
let's, let's get to the end before
Nathan turns on the music and plays us out.
can we have this time, Tony, can, can
you read Titus for us? Charlotte can you read
Tamara? And

(01:46:48):
Jamal can you play Publius?
And Angie can you play
Chiron? Well, let's see, we got both of them
here. Angie, you play Chiron.
And I'll say Demetrius's line.
Since I felt so good about my Marcus line.

>> Nathan Agin (01:47:06):
This is from the beginning or continuing?

>> Nick (01:47:07):
No, let's just continue on and read the end.
Is that okay? we'll start,
from Tamara's exits. So,
Chiron's line. Tell, us, old man, how we
shall be employed. and
I'll play Chiron.
Tell us, old man, how shall we be

(01:47:28):
employed?

>> Nathan Agin (01:47:31):
I have work enough for you to do. Publius,
come hither. Caius
and Valentine, what is your will?
know you these two.

>> Jamal (01:47:44):
The empress sons? I take them.
Chiron, Demetrius.

>> Nathan Agin (01:47:49):
Fie, Publius, fie. Thou
art much deceived. The one is
murder, and rape is the other. And therefore
bind them, gentle Publius, Caius and
Valentine, lay hands on them
oft have you heard me wish for such an hour?
Now I find it. Therefore bind them

(01:48:09):
sure, and stop their mouths if they begin to cry.

>> Angie Bird (01:48:13):
Villains, forbear. We are the empress sons,
and therefore.

>> Jamal (01:48:18):
Do we what we are commanded.
Stop. Close their mouths. Let them not speak a
word. Is he sure? Bound? Look
that you bind them fast.

>> Nathan Agin (01:48:30):
Come, Come, Lavinia.

>> Angie Bird (01:48:33):
Look.

>> Nathan Agin (01:48:35):
Thy foes abound. Sir, stop them.
Out. Let them not speak to me,
but let them hear what fearful words I utter.
O villain. Chiron and Demetrius,
here stands the spring whom you have stained with
mud this goodly summer with your
winter mixed. You

(01:48:58):
killed her husband, and for that vile
fault two of her brothers were condemned to death.
My hand cut off and made a merry
jest. Both her sweet hands, her,
tongue, and that more dear than hands or tongue,
her spotless chastity,
inhuman traitors, you

(01:49:19):
constrained and forced.
What would you say if I should let you speak?
Villains, for shame you could not beg for grace.
Hark, wretches, how I mean
to martyr you. This one hand
yet is left to cut your throat, whilst

(01:49:40):
that Lavinia, tween her
stumps doth hold the basin that receives
your guilty blood. You know your
mother needs to feast with me and calls herself
Revenge and thinks me mad.
Hawks willing, I will grind your
bones to dust, and with your blood
and it I'll make a paste. And of the

(01:50:03):
paste, a coffin I will rear. And make
two pasties of your shameful
heads and bid that strumpeth your
unhallowed dam light to the earth
swallow her own increase.
This is the feast that I have bid her to, and
this the banquet. She shall surf it on

(01:50:24):
for worse than Philomel, you used my
daughter. And worse than Procne. I will
be revenged. And now prepare your
fruits. Lavinia, come. receive
the blood. And when that they
are dead, let's go grind their bones to
powder small. And with this hateful

(01:50:44):
liquor, temper it. And in that pace let
their vile heads be baked. Come,
come, be every one officious
to make this banquet. Which I wish
may prove more stirred and bloody than the
Centaur's feast. So
now, ah, bring them in, for I'll

(01:51:06):
play the cook. And see them ready against
their mother comes.

>> Nick (01:51:13):
Excellent. Wow.
Quite a speech. Man, oh, man.
Sorry, Charlotte. I. I forgot that there wasn't very much going
on with Tamara in that section.

>> Nathan Agin (01:51:25):
I felt her presence.

>> Nick (01:51:26):
She was there.

>> Nathan Agin (01:51:28):
I felt.

>> Nick (01:51:29):
Charlotte, I was busy.

I was very busy being.

>> Nick (01:51:36):
I really. I, love. I got the
sense from your reading, Tony, that this was a man that had seen
so much blood before. And I really enjoyed that.
I really enjoyed the. You know, the
least pleasurable part was the killing of them. You
know, it was much more enjoyable to talk
to them and let them know what was going to happen.

(01:51:57):
It really is a beautiful revenge
moment in all. Ah, one of the greatest ones in all of
Shakespeare's plays. This speech.
is there anything that you guys want to bring up? what do you
think, Angie?

>> Angie Bird (01:52:10):
Oh, I almost wanted to see
Titus at the very
end. When he's talking to Lavinia about what they're going to
do with the bones and all that stuff.
Do it as though he were, like, 7 years
old or 10 years old. And the two of them are going
to play a great game.

>> Nathan Agin (01:52:30):
Yeah.

>> Angie Bird (01:52:32):
I don't know. I would just like to see it that way.

>> Nick (01:52:34):
Well, I really noticed how he said, I'll play the cook.

>> Angie Bird (01:52:37):
Yeah. Maybe that's what made me think of
it. And I thought, good.

He's just like.

>> Nick (01:52:42):
There's a sense of enjoyment in this, you know.
He's been waiting for this
moment for sure. And.

>> Angie Bird (01:52:50):
And, of course, if you're playing, the. The daughter
there. I mean, she has to be horrified by
him. I think,
expecting that she's going to go along with it. I don't
know the possibilities between the two.

>> Nathan Agin (01:53:05):
You know, it's very interesting with
Lavinia, because I was just glancing at the play
today. She's rather nasty
to Tamara early in the play. I mean,
really nasty to her. And we sort of put her in this
box of being just as innocent. And
frankly, that is the road. The road well traveled
in some ways. And it makes sense in our modern sensibility. But

(01:53:28):
there's something about her needing this too.
And Then perhaps in the next scene,
she's repelled, you know, when Tamara's eating,
because I think there's a. But, you know, because I was.
I thought, oh, wow, she's not this,
sort of, you know, I mean, she really some nasty
stuff to, Tamara in that scene.

>> Miranda (01:53:48):
Yeah.

>> Angie Bird (01:53:49):
The possibilities of that.

>> Nathan Agin (01:53:50):
Yeah.

>> Angie Bird (01:53:51):
Are just great.

>> Nick (01:53:55):
I love that he keeps bringing her. And I love how you. You're
choice on Lavinia Come.

>> Nathan Agin (01:54:00):
Yeah.

>> Nick (01:54:01):
There was a glee. Come on. There was a glee. There was this
beautiful, That was really, really
remarkable listening to all of you work on that today.
we're going to look at some scansion and the verse, and break
that down a little bit next time. and I'm looking forward
to that for sure. Hi, Nathan. Hey.

>> Nathan Agin (01:54:19):
Yeah, this was wonderful. Again, being
new to the play and it sounds like I'm. And I'm in good
company there. ah, just hearing all the
conversations around, you know, possible code
and things like, you know, just the
loyalty. All of that stuff was great. And just. Even
though, you know, maybe at times it feels like the language

(01:54:40):
is very clear or the verse might be just all the possibilities
that you guys are talking about, it's like, well, you know, what if this is
going on? Or what if we play this? Or what if we try this? It's
just really. It's really fun, to hear that,
you know, that it. And this is my, you know, one
of my joys about this is that even, you know, coming into a scene,
you know, you think you might know what's going on, but there's just.

(01:55:00):
There's so much you can do with it. And it's
just really up to the group of, like, what do we want to try
here? What do we want to play? Even Angie, as you were saying in those
closing moments of, you know, maybe there's a childlike
quality there and, you know, just something to
explore. Floor. So. No, this is great. Nick, Tony,
Angie, Miranda, Jamal, Charlotte. Thank you all so much for

(01:55:21):
a great first session. This was great.
So glad you could all be a part of it.
I'm glad you could stay, Miranda.
Yes.

>> Nick (01:55:29):
Yeah.

>> Miranda (01:55:29):
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

>> Nick (01:55:33):
Thank you all very much. I'm really excited for next week. Yeah. So
we'll just take a look at it again and then we're going to really, you know,
go through the, the verse a little bit, take a look
at, all that stuff, and we'll talk about the poetry next
week.

>> Nathan Agin (01:55:45):
Excellent.

>> Nick (01:55:46):
Great, wonderful.

>> Nathan Agin (01:55:47):
Take care.

>> Jamal (01:55:47):
You all be good.

>> Miranda (01:55:49):
Have a good week.

>> Nick (01:55:51):
So much.

All Episodes

Titus Andronicus (5.2), Week 1 Session: "Witnessing the Vengeance" - The Rehearsal Room

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Titus Andronicus (5.2), Week 1 Session: "Witnessing the Vengeance" - The Rehearsal Room