Week 1: "Curiosity and Carnal Embrace" - ARCADIA - Tom Stoppard | The Rehearsal Room - The Working Actor's Journey

Episode Transcript
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>> Nathan Agin (00:00):
Hi everybody, I'm Nathan Agin. Welcome back to the Working
Actors Journey. And we are here for another series in
the rehearsal room. this is a project that started four and
a half years ago during the pandemic when we all had a lot of time
on our hands. And it was what we could do with all
of that time to really dive deeply,
into material, and to see what we can
mine from it. So we've been exploring just one scene over the course of

(00:23):
a month. And this month we're going to be diving into a
couple scenes from Tom Stoppard's Arcadia.
I personally have a little bit of connection to this play, so I'm excited to see
what this group digs, out of it, what, what I might have missed
and what. You know, it's just such a great play. If you're
not familiar with it, if you are, you know, it's funny and
beautiful and hilarious. but, you know, I'm excited
for, we have a number of new artists joining us this round.

(00:46):
for those familiar, and I was just thinking about this. Every
month we do this, it gets further and further from when
John Barton did his Playing Shakespeare series. So it's going to sound more and
more esoteric the longer I do this and the more times I
mention that. But for those people familiar with that
series, I kind of feel like this. That was definitely
a big inspiration, for this to start.

(01:07):
And I see this as kind of a springboard off of that
work. those sessions were scripted to some degree
and planned out. But this is
raw, unrehearsed. You get to see what is the collaborative
process really like, what to a group of
professional artists do when they get together and they want to bring
material to life. So I'm very excited that everybody
here is, on board to do that and excited to do

(01:29):
that. for those who are new here, what you're going to see is,
like I said, not planned out, not a final performance
in any of the weeks. It's just a continuation of the work in
progress. and the rehearsal room I
think, does a number of different things, but
I believe it's really,
at its core is about collaboration. It's about continuing

(01:51):
that legacy, of learning
by doing and by learning from those who have been doing this
for 30, 40, 50 years.
it's also an opportunity for us to be more
conscious about casting, when it comes to
age or gender or race than maybe some
theaters feel they can be we can explore these
things because, it's all about the text here. It's all about the

(02:13):
work. So people can play roles they never thought they'd have a chance to
play, or they never thought they'd be typed in and,
or for whatever number of reasons. We've had a lot of
actors be able to do parts, like that. And you'll probably
see some of that, come out tonight. Maybe some of the artists will talk about
that. what I love about this session,
and you may hear this, we can bring artists
together from all over. right now we have people all over

(02:36):
the country, which is really wonderful. And it's also
lovely that you can reunite artists that maybe haven't worked
together because they just haven't been in the same geographic space for
a while. but now, they can play together again, which
is great. and so, yeah, that's what we're trying
to do here. please, consider
subscribing. we're posting new weekly sessions on YouTube for

(02:56):
free for everybody to enjoy. so you can click
for notifications of that. You can support the project
if you'd like via, Patreon. Get access to all the
sessions a few days early. There's also a podcast version
and I want to say a quick thank you to our patrons. Some, of our
patrons, Joan, Michelle, Jim Magdalene, Ebar, Claudia, Cliff and
Jeff, thank you very much for keeping some of the administrative lights

(03:16):
on for us. and this, you know, even
though we're recording this, think of YouTube as like a discussion.
If you have a question, if you have a comment, leave it below. I'll, I
do try to forward those on to the artists and we can keep
the discussion going. But, enough for me. Let's get to
the work. I will do my producer thing and
go, go to the back of the theater and let, let these guys have

(03:36):
fun. we'll do a quick introduction of everybody and then
we'll get to the work. even though you've heard enough of me, I'll just say
I'm Nathan. I live in very rural Northern
California. Did live in L. A for a number of years. Did theater down
there, Worked with a number of these people
there. Mostly I do audiobooks now and produce
this. so, that's what I'm up to. I'll, ah, turn it
over to our esteemed director Brendan. He, will take it from

(03:59):
there and I hope you guys have a great first session.

>> Brendon Fox (04:03):
Thanks, Nathan. I'm Brendan Fox.
playing the role of director. M pronouns.
He, him. I'm M. A director, teacher,
producer. I'm based, in
Massachusetts, outside of Worcester.
And, I mix up my time between freelance
directing, teaching,
at undergrad and graduate schools occasionally, as

(04:25):
well as, As of this past Sept. I'm
the new artistic director of Peterborough Players in New
Hampshire. so I'm a huge fan of
Stoppard, which you'll hear obviously a lot more about. But I'm excited to
see all these faces. And I'll pass it to
Chris.

>> Chris Guilmet (04:42):
Hello, I'm Chris Guilmet I
am, currently in Buffalo, New York, where it is
like 12 degrees. but,
I've lived all over, used to live in la, have worked with
Brendan, and have worked with Jeffrey
many times. Worked with Jeffrey. I first
saw Acadia in
1996 at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival when I

(05:04):
was like in my late 20s. And that
was one of those theater experiences that you have where you
go, oh my God. And it was three hours long. And
I was like, why is it over so soon? and I've been
in, utterly besotted by
the play ever since. So I'm super thrilled
to be doing this and to be playing a part that

(05:24):
left me about 20 years ago in terms of
castability. So this is very exciting.
who's next?

You want to pass it, Chris?

I'll pass the baton to Jeffrey.

>> Geoffrey Wade (05:40):
Okay. Hi, I'm Jeffrey, Jeffrey Wade.
I love these things. I've directed about a half dozen of
them, which I just love doing. This is the first one
I've actually been an actor in which,
everything worked out. But this is always a play
I've always wanted to do. I never,
never had a chance. The audition. Never quite got it.

(06:01):
And a part much like Chris, that
I always wanted to do. I think
Septimus speech in, actually in Act 2 at the beginning,
where he talks about the long walk that
humanity is. It's just one of the great, great speeches in all
of drama. It's a fantastic play.
I've worked with Brendan, as an

(06:22):
actor quite a few years ago. It was when
Obama was running for president. I remember
that we did as you like it. It was
terrific. I've worked with,
Chris, directed him. And
this is just fantastic. I'm in Los Angeles, so, I mean, we could
hardly be further apart, walking around in a T shirt. It's windy,
but it's warm. And,

(06:44):
I'm just thrilled to be doing
This. I love this play, and I've always wanted to do
this part. And, like, Chris, I'm maybe even more years
beyond it, but it's so great. All
right, Taya, how about you?

>> Téa Guarino (07:00):
Hey, everyone. My name is Téa My pronouns are
she, her. I'm, playing Thomasina in
the play. I don't have a. Like a.
I've actually never read the play until I just read the
play. So I. It's exciting. It's such
a cool world to
live in. So I'm really excited to do this
with you all. I've worked with Brendan. we did a

(07:23):
show at Connecticut Rep. We just did a reading together
at, Westport County Playhouse, and that
was fun. yeah, I'm based in New York. I live in
New Jersey. And,
yeah, I'm an actor. I just recently graduated from
Rutgers University. Mason Gross. So
that's a fun post grad
time. yeah, that's. That's me.

(07:45):
I'm really excited to work with all of you. I am
gonna pass it to Jennifer.

>> Jennifer Le Blanc (07:52):
Hi. my name is
Jennifer Le Blanc. My pronouns are she, her,
hers. I'm in Oakland,
California. this is my first time
doing this, so that's exciting. I have worked
with Brendan and Dr. Kate before. this
summer, we did Troilus and Cressida in
Prague, which was really fun.

(08:13):
I have seen this play before
and loved it. And I love Tom
Stoppard. but the only play of his that I've done before
was the Real Thing. I had a good time doing that
many years ago. But, this is my first time with this text,
and it's delightfully juicy, so I'm grateful
to be here.

>> Dr. Kate Moncrief (08:35):
I think that leaves me
great. I'm Dr. Kate Moncrieff. in my
day job, I'm the head of the humanities and arts
department at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in
Worcester, Massachusetts. Very cold here in
Worcester. theatrically, I work as a
dramaturg and text coach and also as an
intimacy choreographer. I specialize in Shakespeare,

(08:57):
so my PhD is in Shakespeare. I love heightened language.
Anything in that world. A, million years
ago, I did my master's degree comps in 19th
century British literature, so it's nice to
be in that world, in the world of Arcadia. This is
a play I have seen, that I have read,
that I have taught, but I have not worked on a full

(09:17):
production of it. So I'm really excited to be your
dramaturg for this adventure tonight.
I've worked with both Jen and Brendan. Jen as she mentioned
on Troilus and Cressida. Brendan and I have
shared many projects together. lots
of Shakespeare.

And one thing I should mention that Dr. Kate and Jennifer
didn't mention was it was an all women Troilus and
Cressida. So it was
pretty exciting and was my first time
working on that. also a dense
and naughty in all sense of the
word play like Arcadia in many ways.
And I've never I

(09:56):
directed this play my first year when I worked at
Washington College, a small liberal arts school in
Maryland. which is where Dr. K and I met. but
we did not work together on that. But that was my
only time working on this play. It's been
in my brain for years.
Real Thing was the first one that I read, Jennifer

(10:16):
and I was blown away. I got to work on an acting class in
college and then I just was ravenous
for all of Stoppard's plays after that. And I did get to
play Claudius and Rosencrankand Guildenstern in
college which was fun because I actually had already played Claudius
in the OG version. And
that was a lot of fun to be able to wrap my head around

(10:37):
his world. But I just also wanted to just say
another shout out to Nathan for doing this.
It's been a second since I've done one of these
and I think
it's always a fun challenge to do theater at any time in
history. But we're also in a moment where
budget seemed to be tight and

(10:59):
time is tight and precious resources.
And I think to have something like
this that gets to go out into the world that
is pure process and
reminds people of the importance of that I think is
it just. I can't say enough about the value of that
and the brainchild of Nathan's. And I think it says
something that's been going on as long as it has and the amount of artists that

(11:21):
want to be involved is is pretty incredible.
So and I'm glad that Nathan mentioned about the comments
because something I'm excited about that I remembered when he mentioned
that was the feedback that can come
from those watching these that sometimes we get to then
address in a future
session. So that's, you know, fingers crossed on that. That I think
would be great. So I just want to share that with anyone who is watching

(11:44):
these and please don't be shy about putting
things, comments, questions, in
the comments that we could hopefully get to them before all this is
over. for those. Since all
of you have worked with me, but I think it's,
you know, I don't mind it. Think it's worth saying, as Nathan said, all about
collaboration. I feel the same. Table work is
very important to me. And I like to think of

(12:07):
this today, tonight and today
and over the next couple weeks as sort of our first dates together
on this play. And I think to me that would. It would
reflect if we were sitting around an actual table rather
than our virtual one of, just taking
time line by line and
talking about the play, about the characters and
sort of. I like to think of table work, to me in the most

(12:29):
robust way is the macro and the micro.
That on the micro level, that to give ourselves permission
to go line by line and beat by beat for
everyone. Not just the people saying the text, but those
receiving it and even those who are not in the
same scene. But to, you know,
inevitably things bubble to the surface, right.
Connections are made that surprise us.

(12:52):
That's why I think it's important for me not to doing table
work with those people just in the scene, but those
initial rehearsals to involve everyone, because
then everyone gets to contribute to say, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize
this actually is brought up again. And especially with Stoppard,
right. He's all about echoes, always, always about
concentric circles. So, I think that's important
on the micro and on the macro.

(13:15):
Hopefully we can also. Even though we're just working on two scenes,
what are those big picture ideas that come out to us that as
we start to reflect between the sessions as well.
I hope we can take time at the beginning of every
subsequent session to take a moment to say, in
our busy lives, did anything pop up
from last week that you've been thinking about, or
whether it's something in your scene or the other scene,

(13:37):
that. Can we talk about discovering what the tone
might be or the big ideas, a theme that might
be developing. That's why I was excited when Nathan. I talked about
this, of doing two really different
scenes, both linked by Septimus, but, I
think present fun challenges in their own way,
but also hopefully finding ways to make

(13:58):
connections. any thoughts from the group on that? In
terms of, that approach,
in terms of looking at the boots on the ground
versus the, you know, the drone's eye view? How do we
feel about that?

Yeah, it's great. I mean,
I. When I try to describe what these things are to
other people, I say it's like getting, you
know, eight glorious hours of table work instead of
the 20 minutes you might, you know, or, you know, even a
generous hour would be, you know, great.
But this kind of deep dive into a,

(14:33):
you know, quite small section of the script is. It's just.
It's wonderful. It's just wonderful.

And it's a chance for us to give ourselves. my
favorite words in any rehearsal process
are, I don't know. Right. And I think
that what I love about. One of the things I love about this play
is how much the characters get wrong, as much
as they get right. And to me, that's why it's still
worth studying. Because, you know, the longer the play goes
on, the audience is in this God's eye view, right,

(15:02):
of being privileged to go, oh, no,
Hannah Bernard, you're so off base
on all these things because we got to see what really happens.
So that's the other thing I would just offer, is that, like, you
know, to state the obvious, but it's
important that we're all coming to this with fresh eyes.
The great thing is what I'm so jealous about,
you know, Tea, when you said that this was your first time reading it,

(15:24):
I had this pang of God, I
wish. I wish that could have been me,
you know, to have that. That first
experience with this. But whether it's our first
time with the play or we've seen it a bunch of times,
I just think there's something valuable in also
sharing when we're not sure about something

(15:45):
or what this reference means or what
we're even doing in this moment. so I just think
it's worth shining a light on that to say none of this is
a test or to show off. I'd like us to have,
even in the time we've got this, a
space for each other to, offer
ideas. But, also to say, I don't know,

(16:06):
let's phone a friend. Let's open it up to the
group. if we're all good for that.
That's an approach I'd love to take with these
hours.
Obviously, I'd like to read both scenes,
kind of back to back, and then circle back and start to break
them down. But I would love to start by asking

(16:28):
what some initial impressions on these. Let's
just. Just talking about, let's say these particular scenes, but
the play in general. But to be a little specific
to these, anything that's jumped out at you.
First observations coming, into
tonight.

Well, I'll just pick up on what you said about the
characters getting it wrong.
that's, that's
part of the, the actual humor, what actually makes
the audience laugh.
and it's, it's part of what makes the, the play
so delightful. I mean he's dealing with, or
we're the characters stopper is dealing with these

(17:09):
incredibly complex ideas,
difficult things that, that
you know, it's this thrilling time in history, the age of
enlightenment and all this stuff that's going on. It's not actually not
unlike where we are right now. I mean there's a, interesting
things happening.
and so even the people who

(17:30):
think they know everything. One
of the great pleasures of
Septimus at the beginning is I think he's a 22 year
old who kind of thinks he knows everything and almost immediately
finds out that he doesn't.
And he's dealing with this wonderful
child who

(17:50):
I, I, well now we're getting into it. But, but
you know, I think even from the start he knows that she's
clearly, unusual and you know, spectacularly
intelligent, but right away she's bringing up
things that he can't quite understand and at the same
time he gets caught out in a very simple lie.
I mean it's, it's just, I, I just, I, I love,

(18:11):
I just love that stuff. I really, I really do.
And it's very hard to follow. I know people have seen the play and
says it's so complicated, I can't follow it. But
that's also part of the fun. I think of
when you see a play, you sort of let yourself
swim in it. Maybe you don't understand it and
you know, you'll understand on the drive home or in the shower three

(18:31):
days later. It's, that's, that's great
stuff.

Yeah. Other
thoughts?

I was thinking just about like
Thomasina in general. Just like the,
the, the
genius of her
being, like this young woman
like growing into herself and
her thoughts, but also with this like

(19:05):
brilliant mind. Like all of these,
like these mathematical thoughts and these like
all this structured stuff. But it's also like so like
what is that in like such like a childlike
way. It's. I love the, I loved
the, just the childlike
wonder mixed with the

(19:26):
super advanced
brain mechanisms that she has.
So that was just so interesting to me of just
the, the writing of that because
it's, it seemed very like this, this,
this, this, this and then just like kind of thinking. But
then also this is, this is this and then thinking and
like I, I Think I operate in that kind of way as well.

(19:48):
So I was like. I was reading and I was like, oh, like, Brendan really
knows me. He really, like. It's just very. I
really operate in that kind of, like, all over the place.
But, like, deep down I'm grounded in what I do
know. So, yeah,
I really connect to her. I'm excited to
explore what else. Being it's my first time

(20:08):
with the text, I'm sure I'll discover more things,
but for right now, yeah,
it's wonderful.

Well, Taya, if I may just really quick pick up on that word of
wonder. And I think that's something we can all
explore because I think one of the. I think every
play has traps. And I
think for me, one of the traps of any stopper
play, a little like doing a Shaw or Noel
Coward play, is characters who just
know it all or want to seem like that for two and a half

(20:37):
hours. And that can be fun and
scintillating for a bit. And then it can
feel to me, it can start to grate. And
I feel like, where's the wonder? Like you said, where's the
discoveries and, the taking a plunge and
then pivoting and trying again? And I think
it's. Thomasina really embodies it. But I would say
that I think that can happen throughout. To me, what makes these

(21:00):
characters really fascinating and frankly, really
sexy is when is there is
how they think and how they are thinking out
loud in front of each other, which
inspires or pisses somebody off
or whatever. But I would
encourage us all to have that small flashlight
so that we can keep stumbling upon big

(21:23):
and small discoveries and let ourselves,
you know, we can go fast, like between, like you said, Jeff, between
cockiness and wonder or,
you know, ignorance or, being
befuddlement. Right. Or any of those things. To me,
then that adding those bumps in the road
helps push back against these characters feeling a little like

(21:44):
Teflon, if you know what I mean, that they. There's just sort of. They've
got it all figured out. And I think that
also, to me makes things more playable beat to
beat. If we're not
making them these superhuman
thought machines, if that makes sense. So, anyway,
just wanted to pick up on that for a

(22:04):
second. Chris, Kate,
Jennifer. Thoughts?

Well, I was just thinking actually about how, in the
choosing of the two scenes, you know, what you
were saying about how it can be super grating to
listen to people who are always,
you know, over everyone else, smarter than everyone else in the room, if
there's five people and they're all smarter than each other, that's
can be awful to watch. But

(22:31):
in the two scenes you've picked, there's the one where
Septimus is in his very,
confidence, cocky sort of role. And
then in the second scene, he's a little, you know, a little more
on his heels and a little. A little more contrite
in some ways and unsure. so it's interesting to see
those two sides of this one character in the two scenes.

Yeah, I love that. Thank you for picking up on that. That was kind
of part of the point of why I chose them, was
to see what is it like to have two people
playing him and to see these very different
sides. And so, like, going off of what you're saying, Chris,
like, what I would suggest is when they
are most. When. When they. When a character seems to me
like mostly X in a scene, where can we find

(23:17):
Y? Right. So in your scene, Chris,
let's. Where can we find those moments of. Okay, I got this
before the rug gets pulled out again. And I think, Jeff, you know
the same opposite for you of like, where.
When can he be at sea? And how often can we
put those. Those moments so that we can just keep finding
opposites? But, yeah, I love that.

(23:41):
Jennifer, Kate, any thoughts off the bat?

Well, just.

I love.

I love the scenes and piggybacking on what other people
said. There's also, like, a joyfulness of, like,
there's a. There's a, smugness, a
smug obiner on a character
that I think is really fun because in almost any
scene where your character is like, I've got the
upper hand, you can Bet that within
30 seconds, someone else comes in with information of

(24:09):
I was incorrect.
And so I think there's something fun about
the peak of. Well, I have this. And
no, I was wrong. And I especially
like it, just as a theme in the overall play.
Watching the scholars looking back at
history smugly thinking that they

(24:29):
can interpret it because they know so
much and forgetting that humans are gonna human
and that they're forgetting the human factor because they've
read so much about these people and they know so much, and then
they get everything wrong because they're
forgetting the humanness
is sort of a fun theme going on.

Well, Jennifer, I think. And Nathan's listening. I know
in the back of the theater, I really hope that we start making T
shirts, and that will be Arcadia on
one side and humans are gonna human on the other. Because
I literally think you have Nailed now
for this play, wherever it's done, that is
just, like, so spot on. But, yeah, it's true.

(25:12):
It's like Stoppard sets us up to take us down. And I think.
But you're right. Both are important, right? To feel like, okay,
I have this moment of certainty in both scenes,
both acts, both worlds of the play where people feel like
they need, you know, and that's something for us to explore, too. I hadn't
really thought of it this way until you just said that, Jennifer. But,
like, you also could argue that many of Stopper's
characters are control freaks, right? That

(25:34):
when a matter of their age or whatever, they want to get a grip
on, when everything else might be chaotic in their love
life, or Thomasine and her parents or
whatever, this sense of, well, I know this, and,
this gives me a handhold in the cliff face.
So that, to me, is exciting more than just
an intellectual need to

(25:55):
know something, but actually, like, I need this for my soul.
I need this for my psyche. And so then when I
lose that grip, it becomes
terrifying and exciting and,
in free fall. And not just like, oh, okay, well, it's a math
problem, you know, I think, which is another trap of Stopper. It's
like, how do we keep the heart, the guts, the
groin, all of the chakras in play

(26:18):
and not just brains floating
on stage? Because that goes off, what you're saying, Jennifer. I mean, the
humanity is making sure they're
all, you know, operating on all those
levels that. And not just like, the
witty banter and let's talk about Fermat's Last Theorem.
But. But why, like, what am I getting out of
this, like, here and not

(26:41):
just here. and how was my relationship
with this person now different? Because we talked
about that. So that keeps Stoppard from just
staying in the ether and
keeps him also tethered to our
bodies in a way.

Brendan, I think the play does both of those things. It's one of the things
that I think many of us really love so much about Stoppard.
The intellect that is at work there
and the. The control of
the form. the.
In lesser hands, this play would be a hot mess,
right? But it goes beyond

(27:18):
being clever, but the intellectual
control, the deep understanding of these
subjects. But the play never only
stays intellectual, right? He's given us
these really full human beings in
the midst of these incredibly complex
ideas. The choice of setting. I think, Jeffrey, you said it at the
beginning, the time period where it.

(27:40):
There were many. I think people
thought the world Was like, full of change and full of
excitement. And I like your thinking
about it now. The technological change, the
artistic change, the sort of the
idea that the world was expansive.
there was so much happening in this moment in
history. And Stoppard sort of

(28:02):
captures that,
weaves it together brilliantly, but has these people
in the middle of it, because nobody in this moment woke up and
went, oh, today is the Industrial Revolution,
right? They were living their lives. You know, the things
were happening. They were falling in love, they were making
mistakes, they were, you know, shooting grouse or
whatever. While we look back on it as

(28:24):
scholars and as somebody who spent a lot of time in the archives
and in manuscripts, it's. It's just very
interesting because you're making these assumptions about things in the
past, but it's really, really hard to
recover lived history. What were
people's lives actually like? So I think the imagination
that's at work in this play that both has a
deep understanding of the time period and the intellectual

(28:47):
concepts, the scientific concepts, but the deep
humanity, that really is the
beating heart of the play for
me.

And, I also. I need to give a shout out to the
great work that Dr. Kate did on this dramaturgy packet.
So I hope you have your hymnals at the
ready. Yes, Chris. Love it.
Yeah.

Teeny, tiny little thing for our scene scholars. Got
a scholar, man. I had to send you stuff in advance.

You know, and we'll. We'll. And as things come up that are
not necessarily in the packet, like we've done in past rehearsal rooms,
you know, Kate's up for doing, you
know, Googling things away. And, you
know, whether it's for this each session or maybe
we'll come. We know she'll come back with something in the next session or something.
But, not the be all and end all, obviously. But, like, I think

(29:38):
it's an opportunity for us. I, have mine pulled up as
well. So, you know, as a. As a. As a good place to
start in terms of references, how
do we feel about doing a little reading? Can we
jump in? and, I, For
now, if, you bear with me, I can. I'll read in for
Jellyby. And,

(29:59):
why, don't we. And I'll read some of the stage directions, but how
about we just take it from the few
lines before Thomasina's first line?
I'll start with Septimus as a tortoise. Do we
see where we are when we're
ready?

(30:19):
Yes.
Are we good, Jeff?

Yeah. Where are we starting? We're starting with.

I was just going to start with the. A few.

The.

Septimus has a tortoise which is sleepy enough to serve as
lead. You both in? Yeah.

Excellent.

And then I'll jump in with Jellyby.
Septimus has a tortoise which is sleepy enough to serve as a
paperweight. Elsewhere on the table, there's an old fashioned theodolite
and also some other books stacked up.

Septimus, what is carnal
embrace?

Carnal embrace is the practice of throwing one's arms around
a side of beef.

Is that all?

No. Shoulder of mutton, haunch of
venison. Well hugged. An embrace of
grouse. Carno. Carnis.
Feminine flesh.

Is it a sin?

not necessarily, milady. But when carnal embrace
is sinful, it is a sin of the
flesh. QED we had
Cairo in our Gallic wars.
The Britons live on milk and meat.
Lacte et carne
vivunt. I am sorry that
the seed fell on stony ground.

That was the sin of Onan, wasn't it,
Septimus?

Yes.

He was giving his brother's wife a Latin lesson,
and she was hardly the wiser after it than before.
I thought you were finding a proof for
Fermat's last theorem.

It is very difficult, Septimus. You will have to show me
how.

If I knew how, there'd be no need to ask you.
Fermat's last theorem has kept people busy for
150 years. And I hoped it would keep you busy
long enough for me to read Mr. M. Chaytor's poem In Praise of
Love, with only the distraction of its own
absurdities.

Our Mr. Chaytor has written a poem.

He believes he's written a poem. Yes.
I can see that there might be more carnality in your
algebra than in Mr. Chaytor's couch of
Eros.

Oh, it was not my algebra. I heard Jellyby telling
cook that Mrs. M. Chaytor was discovered in carnal
embrace in the gazebo.

Really? With whom,
did Jellyby happen to say?

What do you mean? With whom?

With what? Exactly. So the idea's
absurd. where did that story come from?

Mr. Noakes.

Mr. Noakes?

Papa's Landscape gardener. He was taking
bearings in the garden when he saw through his spyglass,
Mrs. Chaytor in the gazebo, in carnal
embrace.

And you mean to tell me that Mr. Noaks told the butler?

no. Mr. Noakes told Mr.
Chaytor. Jellyby was told by the groom who
overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr. Chaytor in the stable
yard.

Mr. Chaytor being engaged in closing the stable
door.

What do you mean, Septimus?

So, thus far, the only people who know about this are, ah,
Mr. Noakes, the landscape architect, the
groom, the butler, the cook, and of course, Mrs.
Chaytor, husband, the poet, and
Arthur, who was.

Cleaning the silver and the boot boy. And now?

Ah, you, of course. what else did
he say, Mr. Noakes?
No, not Mr. Noakes. Jellyby. You
heard Jellyby telling the cook?

Cook hushed him almost as soon as he started. Jellyby did
not see that I was being allowed to finish yesterday's
upstairs rabbit pie before I came to my lesson.
I think you have not been candid with me,
Septimus. A, gazebo is not, after all,
a meat larder.

I never said my definition was complete.

Is Carl embrace kissing?

Yes.

And throwing one's arm around Mrs. Chaytor?

Yes. Now, Fermat's last theorem.

I thought as much. I hope you are
ashamed.

I, Milady?

If you do not teach me the true meaning of
things, who will?

Ah. Yes, I
am ashamed. Carnal embrace
is sexual congress, which is the insertion of the
male genital organ into the female genital organ
for purposes of procreation and
pleasure. Fermat's last
theorem, by contrast, asserts that when X, Y

(34:41):
and Z are whole numbers, each raised to
the power of N, the sum of the first
two can never equal the third when N
is greater than 2.

Ah.

Nevertheless, that is the theorem.

It is disgusting and
incomprehensible. Now, when I am grown to practice
it myself, I shall never do so without thinking of
you.

Thank you very much, milady. Was Mrs.
Chaytor down this morning?

No. Tell me more about sexual congress.

There is nothing more to be said about ex sexual
congress.

Is it the same as love?

Oh, no, no, it's much nicer than that.

One of the side doors leads to the music room. It is the other side door
which now opens to admit Jellyby, the butler.

I am teaching Jellyby?

Beg, your pardon, Mr. Hodge. Mr. Chaytor said it was urgent you
receive his letter. Oh, very well.

Thank you. Thank
you.

Mr. Chaytor asked me to bring him your
answer.

My answer?

He opens the letter. There's no envelope as such, but there is a cover
which, folded and sealed, does the same service. Septimus tosses
the COVID negligently aside and.

Reads, well, my answer
is that as is my custom and my duty to his
lordship, I am engaged until a quarter to
12 in the education of his daughter. When I am done,
and if Mr. Chaytor is still there. I will be
happy to wait upon him in, the gun room.

I will tell him so. Thank you, sir.

What is for dinner? Jellyby.

Boiled ham and cabbages, my lady. And a rice
pudding.

Oh, goody.

Well, so much for Mr. Noakes. He puts himself forward
as a gentleman, a philosopher of the
picturesque, a visionary who can move mountains
and cause lakes, but in the scheme of the garden,
he is as the serpent.

When you stir your rice pudding, Septimus,
the spoonful of jam spreads itself
round, making red trails like the picture of
a meteor in my astronomical atlas. But
if you stir backward, the jam will not
come together again. Indeed, the pudding does not
notice and continues to turn pink, just as before.

(37:01):
Do you think this is odd?

No.

Well, I do. You cannot stir
things apart no more.

Can no more you can. Time must needs
run backward. And since it will not,
we must stir our way onward, mixing
as we go, disorder out of
disorder into disorder, until pink
is complete, unchanging and
unchangeable, and we are done with it
forever. This is known as free

(37:32):
will or self determination.

He picks up the tortoise and moves it a few inches, as though it had
strayed on top of some loose papers, and admonishes it.

Sit.

Septimus, do you think God is a
Newtonian?

A Newtonian? Almost certainly. I'm afraid
we must ask your brother to make it his first
inquiry.

No, Septimus, a Newtonian.

Septimus,

Am I the first person to have thought of this?
No, I have not. I have not
said yet.

If everything from the furthest planet to the
smallest atom of our brain acts according to Newton's
law of motion, what becomes a free will?

No.

God's will?

No.

Sin?

No.

Very well.

If you could stop every atom in
its position and direction, and if your
mind could comprehend all the
actions thus suspended, then if you were really,
really good at algebra, you could write the formula
for all the future. And although nobody can be so
clever as to do it, the formula must exist

(38:39):
just as if one could.

Yes.
Yes. As far as I know, you are the first
person to have thought of this.
In the margin of his copy of
Arithmetica, Fermat wrote that he
had discovered a wonderful proof of his theorem,
but the margin, being too narrow for his purpose,

(39:05):
did not have room to write it down.
The note was found after his death, and from that
day to this.

Oh, I see now. The answer is
perfectly obvious.

This time you may have overreached yourself.

Great. Let's hold there.
Oh, my gosh, it's so great.

It's so good.

Good already, isn't it?

Wow.
there's that. Well, well. So this a
big question for the group right off the bat.
what. How do we feel about exploring
any of this at any point with
dialects? I'm not saying
we should or we shouldn't, but I just.
I offer that up to see, and maybe we might

(39:51):
try it for a session and maybe let it go or. But it's just.
It's just something as I was listening and thinking about.
you know, there's also an approach to just letting it be sort
of a heightened speech.
you know, again, this is not for a production, so we're not, you know, we
don't have a text or dialect coach on. On
payroll, waiting to jump in. But I just

(40:12):
want to. I wanted to flag that, M. Just
to see if we had initial thoughts on that.

It's not for production, however,
I think that it being written
for what we would consider a
dialogue, its rhythms are impacted by
how we are pronouncing and the
rhythms that we're using. And just in the most
sweeping term of. As Americans, we go down

(40:39):
and Brits go up in certain places, it's going to
change the rhythm of the play in a certain way.
Maybe not to. In a bad way. Like,
maybe there's something to explore, but in. To me, I
think it's important to do this particular
work with. With a dialect. Doesn't have to be
perfect, but, you know, with some of it. And
Jeffrey was doing some flavor of dialect

(41:02):
in that. But that's my
opinion about it.

Other thoughts? Yeah. Taya, what. What. What do you think?

Yeah, I agree. Like, as I was
reading it with Jeffrey, I was like,
yeah, I think that would kind of.
That lends more like. Just like what. What Chris was saying, I think
that lends more to the character as well. Just kind of
like this, this,
that. Like, I just feel like it would work so well.
Obviously, it does. It was written that way.

So.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, if we're up for trying
it. The thing I would just offer is while we're trying to also
figure out what literally are we saying.
The danger can be that we all know is sometimes
the dialect starts to play us and
that we can fall into a flow that went,
oh, that was great. What did I just say? It

(41:54):
sounded beautiful. And so what I would encourage, if
we want to try the dialect at any point, that
also give ourselves permission to stop and say, I'm just going to say this
me right now for A second. No dialect. Just to
kind of make sure that you keep grounding. Right. Because
I'm. The last thing I want is for us to
start playing a style or a

(42:14):
sound. and so I'm just offering that
as a, yes. And to throw that
out.

That makes perfect sense to me. Yeah.

Yeah, sounds good.

Jennifer, are you good? I think I saw the thumbs up.

Yeah, sounds good.

Yeah. okay.
What I would like to. Can I, As tempting as it is to
dive into that scene, I would love
to move, to the next scene.
And let's read that as well so that we can just see,
especially those who are. Who have been listening to one and then hear the
other. Just what are some things we pull out of that?

(42:49):
So if that's okay with, Chris
and Jennifer.

Sure.

and,

Let'S.

I need to pull up my. Okay,
so, again, I'll reach LBN stage directions from the top. Is that
okay?
Scene six. The room is in.

Sorry, one moment. Sorry, just finding the page.

Can I ask what page that is?

All right.

71.

71.

Thank you.

Thank you, Kate.
Scene six. The room is empty. A reprise. Early
morning. A distant pistol shot. The sound of the crows.
Jellyby enters the dawn dark room with a lamp. He goes
to the windows and looks out. He sees something. He
returns to put the lamp on the table and then opens one of the French
windows and steps outside. Mr.

(43:39):
Hodge. Septimus comes in, followed by
Jellyby, who closes the garden door. Septimus is wearing a
great coat.

Thank you. Jelly was expecting to be
locked out. What time is it?

Half, past five.

That is what I have. Well,
what a bracing experience.

He produces two pistols from inside his coat and places them on the
table.

Dawn, you know, unexpectedly
lively. Fishes, birds,
frogs, rabbits.

He produces a dead rabbit from inside his coat.

Very beautiful. If only it did
not occur so early in the day. I have brought Lady
Thomasina a rabbit. Will you take it?

It's dead.

Yes. Lady Thomasina loves a
rabbit pie.

Jelloby takes the rabbit without hesitation. There is a little blood on
it. You were missed, Mr. Hodge.

I decided to sleep. Last night in the boathouse,
did I see a carriage leaving the park?

Captain Bryce's carriage. With Mr. Mrs. Chater
also gone? Yes,
sir. And Lord Byron's horse was brought round at
4 o'clock.

Lord Byron too?

Yes, sir. The house has been up and hopping.

But I have his rabbit pistols. What am I to do with his
rabbit pistols?

You were looked for in your room.

By whom?

By her Ladyship.

In my room?

I Will tell her Ladyship you are returned.

Jellyby, did Lord Byron
leave a book for me?

A book?

He had the loan of a book from me.

His Lordship left nothing in his room, sir, not a
coin.

Oh, well, I'm sure he would have left a coin
if he'd had one. Jellyby, here's half a guinea for you.

Thank you very much, sir.

What has occurred?

The servants are told nothing, sir.

Can't count as Havagini find nothing anymore.

Her ladyship encountered Mrs. Chaytor during the night.

Where?

On the threshold of Lord Byron's room.

which one was leaving? In which entering?

Mrs. M. Chaytor was leaving Lord Byron's room.

And where was Mr. Chaytor?

Mr. Chaytor and Captain Bryce were drinking cherry brandy.
They had the footman to keep the fire up until 3:00. There was
a loud altercation upstairs and.

Well, Mr. Hodge.

My lady.

All this to shoot a hare?

A rabbit? No,
indeed. A, hare, though. Very rabbit.

Like my infusion?

Yes, my lady. He leaves. Lady
Croom is carrying two letters. We have not seen him before. Each has an
envelope which has been opened. She flings them on the table.

How dare you.

I cannot be called to account for what was written in private and read without
regard to propriety. Addressed to me, in
my room in the event of my death.

What earthly use is a love letter from beyond the
grave?

As much, surely, as from this side of it.
The second letter, however, was not addressed to your ladyship.

I have a mother's right to open a letter addressed to you,
breast by you, to my daughter, whether in the event of your
life, your death or your imbecility.
What do you mean by writing to her of rice pudding when she has
been suffering the shock of violent death in our midst?

Whose m death?

Yours, you wretch.

Yes, I see.

I do not know. Which is the matter of your ravings. One
envelope full of rice pudding, the
other. The most insolent familiarity is
regarding several parts of my
body, but have no doubt which is the more
intolerable to me.

Which.

Oh, aren't we saucy when our bags are
packed? Your friend is gone before you and
I have despatched the harlot, Chater and
her husband and also my brother for bringing them
here. Such is the sentence, you see, for
choosing unwisely in your acquaintance.
Banishment. Lord

(47:33):
Byron is a rake and a hypocrite,
and the sooner he sails for the Levant, the sooner he will find
society congenial to his
character.

Has Been a night of reckoning indeed.

I wish it had passed uneventfully. With you and Mr.
M. Chaytor shooting each other with the decorum due
to a civilized house. You
have no secrets left, Mr. Hodge. They
spilled out between the shrieks and
oaths and tears. It is fortunate that a
lifetime's devotion to the sporting gun has
halved my husband's hearing to the ear. He sleeps

(48:08):
on well.

I'm afraid I have no knowledge of what has occurred.

Your trollope was discovered in
Lord Byron's room.

Discovered?

by Mr. Chaffer.

Who else?

I am very sorry, madam, for having
used your kindness to bring my unworthy friend to
your notice. He will have to give an account of
himself on me, you may be sure.

Before Lady Croom can respond to this threat. Jellyby enters the room
with her infusion. It's quite an elaborate affair. A pewter tray
and small feet which has a kettle suspended over a spirit
lamp. There's a cup and saucer and the silver basket containing the
dry leaves for the tea. Jelly places the tray on the table
and is about to offer further assistance with it.

I will do it.

Yes, my lady? Lord Byron left a letter for you with
the valet, sir. Thank you, Owen.

did he do so?

as he was leaving, your ladyship.
Sepnames puts the letter into his pocket.

Allow me.

Since she does not object, he pours a cup of tea for her. She
accepts it.

I do not know if it is proper for you to receive a letter
written in my house from someone not welcome in
it.

Very improper, I agree. Lord Byron's
want of delicacy is a grief to his friends, among whom I no longer
count myself. I will not read his letter until I
have followed him through the gates.

That may excuse the reading,
but not the writing.

Your ladyship should have lived in the Athens of
Pericles. The philosophers would have fought the
sculptors for your idle hour.

Really?

Oh,

Really.

Septimus has taken Byron's letter from his pocket and is now setting
fire to a corner of it.

Oh,
really?

The paper blazes in his hand. He drops and lets it burn on the metal
tray.

Now, there's a thing. A letter from Lord
Byron, never to be read by a living soul.
I will take my leave, madam, at.

The time of your desiring it to the
Indies.

The Indies? Why?

To follow the chaitor, of course. She
did not tell you?

Did not exchange half a dozen words with
me.

I expect she did not like to waste the time.
The Chater sails with Captain Bryce.

as a member of the Crew?

No. As wife to Mr.
Chaytor. Plant gatherer. to my
brother's expedition.

I knew he was no poet. I did not know
he. It was botany under, his false
colours.

He is no more a botanist. My brother
paid £50 to have him published. And we will pay
150 to have Mr. Chaytor picking flowers
in the Indies for a year while his wife plays
mistress in the captain's quarters.
Captain Bryce has fixed his passion on Mrs.
Chater. And to take her on voyage

(51:12):
he has not scrupled to deceive the Admiralty. The
Linian Society. Sir Joseph Banks,
botanist to His Majesty at Kew.

Her passion is not as fixed as his.

It is a defect of God's humour that he directs our
hearts everywhere, but to whom they have a right to
loom.

Indeed. Bellow.
But is Mr. Chaytor deceived?

He insists on it and finds the
proof of his wife's virtue in his
eagerness to defend it. Captain
Bryce is not deceived, but cannot help
himself. He would die for her.

I think, my lady, he would have, Mr. Chaytor
die for her.

Indeed. I never knew a woman worth the duel.
Or the other way about.
Your letter to me goes very
ill with your conduct to Mrs.
Chater, Mr. Hodge. I
have had the experience of being betrayed before the ink was
dry, but to be betrayed before the pen
is even dipped

(52:19):
and with the village notice board.
What am I to think of such a performance?

I was alone with my thoughts in the gazebo when Mrs.
Chaytor ran me to ground. And
I, being in such a passion, in an agony
of unrelieved desire.

Oh,

I thought in my madness that the
Chater with her skirts over her head would give me the momentary
illusion of the happiness to which I
had dared not put a face.

I do not know when I have received a more
unusual compliment. Mr.
Hodge.
I hope I am more than a match for Mrs.
Chater with her head in a bucket.
Does she wear drawers?

She does, yes.

I have heard that drawers are being worn now.
It is unnatural for women to be got up like
jockeys. I cannot approve.
I know nothing of Pericles or the
Athenian philosophers.
I can spare them an hour in
my sitting room when I've bathed.

(53:36):
7 o'clock. Bring a
book.

She goes out. Septimus picks up the two letters, the ones he
wrote, and starts to burn them in the flame of the spirit lamp.

Ooh.

I think anyone who says ever that Tom
Stomper cannot write a sex scene.
Exhibit A. Bonin for
the T shirt.

For the T shirt of this, I wanted to say Tom Stoppard. All
the chakras.
Yep.

So what, jumped out of us hearing those back
to back? I think that was fascinating.

It's so much hotter out loud than it is on the
page.

Like Shakespeare.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Yeah, yeah.
what else?

I think. I think.
Well, in the first scene,
Septimus isn't dishonest per se, but
he's
playing a part for Thomasina, right? He has to be
her tutor. She's 13. She's asking about things that

(55:01):
he doesn't necessarily want to tell a 13 year old.
in. In this, he's much more,
unguarded and honest.
I think. I think he's being. He's being as honest
as he could ever be about, about anything. He doesn't have
the. He's not being terribly
glib or clever. Although he does say some clever things because

(55:24):
he's a smart guy. But, But I.
I think there's an honesty to him in this that isn't
necessarily part of the. Of the first scene.

I like to see it as. I mean,
yes, it's honesty, but it's. It's, You know, he's dealing with
different women. I think. I think he's
taking. I mean, to quibble, but
to my Thomas, to my, Septimus's
mind, he's taking care of her, he's taking care
around her, right? But this

(55:53):
woman who's, you know, grown up a
woman knows what he's dealing with. He can be
much more straightforward
in these wonderful, That thing about the
philosophers, you know, and sculptors would
battle each other for your spare hour.
An incredible thing to say to somebody.

Well, but also, Jeff, isn't it, Knowing your audience.

Well, yes, exactly.

You know, that. That would not fly with. I mean, Mrs. Chlor would be like.
I'm sorry, what?

Yes, exactly, exactly.

I mean, you know, so it's like that, to me, wit, is
also about. You have to know your audience. You have to know what target
you're hitting. And that's why I think they joke. But
also he. He's being honest about. Look, I don't think we talked much. Did
we ever. It was a hookup. Yeah, that's. That's. That's not,
That's. That's not what. You know, that, that is.
Shader is all about only that. And

(56:44):
that's. She's not turned on by
Heracles of Athens, all of that.

But, you know, that's why we see this
scene, because this is A, sex
scene. That whatever happens in the gazebo is just
sex. This is like, this is
no actual seduction.

This puts it like I was, I was out there thinking. And then
this came to me. I thought, well, okay, well,
yeah.

She'S renowned for being able to grow orchids in her. In
her nether parts. She's just permanent state
of arousal.

Right. Well, and the
fact that like he. I mean, at least I don't know what you. If you agree, Chris,
but what I was hearing that time was that like I was alone with my
thoughts about you.
And there it was.
So she was a proxy. You know what
I mean? It was like we used each other. She and I mean,
she know at least I think, I think this

(57:41):
was mutual, that the you and Mrs.
Chater like had a need. But
what Mrs. Chater was not aware of was that she was a stand
in and that. I love that Jennifer picks up
on that. Right? That lady croom sort of like
he's being so honest there and. Which could have
totally backfired on you where she could have been like, that's really rude

(58:02):
and crude and I don't think you should talk about a woman like
that. And like this is the danger also at
any moment between the two of you, I think
is important to acknowledge that how many
ways this could go wrong. Just like I think Jeff,
you and Taya, this could also go so wrong at any
moment. So I. One thing I noticed was a tightrope in both

(58:22):
scenes. Yeah, yeah, just different tightropes. But
like otherwise the danger, that's another thing we
have to watch out for with stopper is that like, where's the actual
danger? Where's the risk? And like without that, the
pulse goes down. Right? M. So I think this
is, it's. It's exciting to see both
septimuses have to navigate that

(58:42):
and like, you know, and to not know whether. How it's going to
go. Because you know, I think, Jeff, you don't know,
Thomasina might be. This might be the day that you
traumatize her, you know,
because you know, if we, if we think, oh, you can take it, oh, you're
fine, you're precocious, then to me that's getting ahead of the
game. Right? But like, it's like. And also

(59:02):
how much is she gonna ask? Maybe I can just say one thing about beef
and she'll be good.

Yeah, right. But she's too smart, isn't she?
Yeah, right.

And she's like, go on, go on, more, more.
Oh shit.

I Mean, she catches him up, in
an inconsistency.

Yes. She's listening.

Yeah.

That's the other thing. All of these characters are not only super
smart, but their antennae are out. Right. They are picking up
on every single thing. Sometimes, to your
chagrin. Right? It's like, I didn't realize you
heard that or caught that. You know, that's.
I think that's. I think that's interesting, too.
Dr. Kate, any. Any thoughts

(59:44):
listening to both of these? And what. What was
your. What was your takeaway on these? First pass.

Yeah, I'm in agreement with the room, actually. This is
such a smart group here. But the,

What's,

Innuendo. What's. On the surface?
What's. What's sex? And what's
more intriguing than that? Right. sex is better than
love. And this flirtation might be even better than.
Than that. You know, like the. Where the
characters are picking up on. I want to say,
there's a lot of nuance to this and to
relationships.

>> Brendon Fox (01:00:18):
Yeah. It's interesting, right, that. Kate, that we don't see
Septimus with Chater at the gazebo. We also don't
see Lady Croom and Septimus together. It's
not just. I think the stoppers are like, oh, I want to keep it all in one room.
It's like. I mean, they could have jumped each other right here,
too. They, you know, could have been a Trigor and Archadna moment or
something, too. Right. But instead it is
so much about the buildup and the

(01:00:41):
nuance of. And letting the audience. Dot,
dot, dot. Right. That it's. It's.
It's so much about pushing the envelope of.
Well, I'm going to go here with my innuendo. Are you going to match
me or did I overstep? Yeah. well, you
don't know.

>> Dr. Kate Moncrief (01:00:56):
Intellectual, like, pursuit is sexy,
right. That it's hot that they're on the same intellectual
level.

>> Geoffrey Wade (01:01:02):
100%.

>> Chris Guilmet (01:01:03):
Yeah.

That's. That's where those are always the best
scenes. I mean,
once they're in the bed and it's nothing, then it's cinematography.
This is. This is.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:14):
What's.

This is what's hot. This is the. You know, I
think,

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:20):
And it's fascinating, too, that the curiosity to me
is in both scenes, right? There's
curiosity about ideas, about what
sex, math, relationships are.
And I think there's that. That
struck me. And the idea of satiating another
person's curiosity is also
really, really interesting and potentially

(01:01:43):
erotic, but also, like, satisfying this sense of
I wonder Taya about this idea of like
her need to know.
Like you said, the wonder. And coupling that with her
curiosity of the. Yes. And what about this? And
like something. I know we're all in these. Just these
boxes here, but something I think for us all to
get to keep exploring is what is happening

(01:02:05):
to them kinesthetically. Right. And
you know, we can even. Even in zoom, there's
a difference. Like I was noticing when. When you had the
opportunity, when you looked away. Right. Versus
when you were engaging, you know. And what is it like to be struck by
something before you come back with your new.
And obviously we're on book and everything, but

(01:02:27):
it's just something for us to chew on when we circle back to the first
scene of what is it
like Thomasina to. I feel like hard enough
to capture her precociousness or genius is
that it takes her over.
Maybe this sense of like
it's going back just goes back to this kinesthetic sense

(01:02:48):
of the sponge needing more. But then
what about that? And you know, that like getting into
it with that full sense of
herself that also allows us to capture her age a
little, you know, where another young
woman or young boy of their age
might be, you know, geeking out
over toy soldiers and dolls,

(01:03:10):
going out to play, whatever for
her, she's like, ah, this is like the best thing ever, right?
Like rice pudding and Vermont is exactly
the same level of geek out,
you know, like there's no difference.
And that to me also could bring forth a 13 year old,
you know? Yeah.

>> Jennifer Le Blanc (01:03:31):
I also love.

>> Brendon Fox (01:03:32):
Sorry.

Tan. Go ahead, go.

>> Téa Guarino (01:03:33):
Jennifer, I'm so sorry. Go ahead. I was
thinking about that. I was like, as you were going through
it, I just. I found myself just kind of
like at the idea of things just like kind of just being like, oh, wow,
like this and this and that. Like, just like we were talking about. I
also. It like super interesting
that, like, obviously

(01:03:53):
that's just. That's the theme of it, of this scene.
But the, the complex
idea that
ideas that Thomasina has, like,
although Septimus knows, like
the complexity of them, it's kind
of still a push away thing of
like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you can't undo things. But

(01:04:15):
we got to keep going. We got to keep going for like. Like she didn't
just blow
someone's mind with like. Oh, yeah, you can't undo
something that has to be something like really
smart that someone has to write down
because we don't know that yet. So it's
like, I think just Going
with the idea of, like, yeah, this is like my innocent

(01:04:37):
idea, but also the, like, the audience and
everyone else knows that, like, this is
groundbreaking is so cool that, like, you
can have that. That like 13 year
old wonder of, like, wow, this, this, this. But also with
those, like, crazy ideas. So, that was just. That
was just cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:04:57):
Well, and the fact that you also don't need Septimus's approval
to stay with it, like, whether he blows you off or not.
I love that Thomas, he's like, yeah, I still. I'm still on this.
You know what I mean? I'm not letting go of that. And, you
know, you can blow me off all you want, but like, that to me is
also exciting, right? That she's like, yeah, no, I know
that. I know I'm onto something, you know,

(01:05:19):
so she could be running that hard
drive and if he's. If he's in it
with you, great. But if he's talking about some bs,
whatever stuff.

>> Téa Guarino (01:05:28):
Yeah, I'm still.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:29):
Yeah, that doesn't, it doesn't sort of make you go,
oh, well, if Septimus isn't into it, I guess it's
nothing. Which is again, another reason why she is
like one in 100 year person.
Because she's like, I know deep down I
don't know fully, but I know and I'm
gonna just like dog with a bone.

And, it seems to me the interesting thing about, you
know, the arc of the scene, because it kind of
finishes at this point is when he
can't blow her off anymore. Not blowing her off.
But she's supposed to be studying. I'm doing my
own thing.
I think it's a sort of joyful persistence.
you were talking, tay about how it. Each new thing sort

(01:06:11):
of excites you more. But that final thing she gets
to, which is, you know, the theory of everything sort of,
you know, we should be. There should be a simple
mathematic formula for everything,
right? M. And.
And you know, Stoppard's written in those two big
pauses. It's like, yes,
Jesus, yes. And. And then

(01:06:32):
it's sort of even too much for him to handle. And so he. He
moves onward. But I think,
I think that's that. I mean, that's again, that kind of the
fun of the player thing, because even at that point, you can see him
sort of get knocked just, just a little bit
off. You know, his. His metronome is just
bumped a little bit there.
Yeah. And I, you know, I think, I think he

(01:06:55):
already thinks as I Said well before the scene starts that
she's a. She's a special young, woman. But
when she comes up with something like that, it's like,
Jesus, that's. I never thought of that. And I'm
really smart.

>> Brendon Fox (01:07:09):
Yeah. And it sets. And that brings up the question of we always have to ask
ourselves why today? Right. What's different about today? So that
she can be cheek. Yeah, she can be super smart. But then today
also just starting off with, oh, shoot, she's asking
about carnal embrace.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:07:23):
How old is she again? When was her last birthday? You know,
do I have to be.

The one to give her the talk? Is that. Is that what's
going on here? I'm going to be.

No, I was thinking about.
I was being in nerdy dramaturg
here, trying to scroll through on the page and find the exact quote. But I think
in the. In the contemporary timeline, Hannah says
something like, it's wanting to know or
the wanting to know that makes us matter.
And that idea of wanting to know

(01:07:52):
is just at, the heart of this.

>> Brendon Fox (01:07:53):
Right.

It's intellectual. It's
curiosity. It's about sex. The term
knowing has a lot of reson. So I think
it's really at the heart of what he's asking. It's the wanting to
know, that curiosity that
drives us as humans
desire.

I love the, like, the detail that on
the night before, like his
farewell letters before he
goes to a duel, he's got two things he needs to
write down. One is a seemingly
detailed seduction letter, and the
other is rice pudding.
I'm still thinking about that conversation.

(01:08:34):
And those are the two things he needs to clear
up in case the duel doesn't go well.
Those are the two that sets everything
up for him. And he's good to go. It's such an
interesting character thing of, like. Everything else
seems resolved. But these are the two things before I go
that I really need to put onto paper.

Aren't they both connected, too, by hunger?

>> Brendon Fox (01:08:57):
If you think.

You know.

Yeah.

Yeah. But all the.

>> Brendon Fox (01:09:01):
This is.

What's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:09:02):
Kate.

what you were just saying, it suddenly made me think, oh, yeah,
he's. You know, Thomas Cena
is. Because she's a girl. That's
important. It's. It's all. It's all the
mind.

It's.

I mean, she wants to know about these things that, you know, the carnal embrace
and all that. And it's confusing. And then when she hears about it, it's like,
ugh. Oh, God. You know, it's horrible. But. But so.
So she's all the mind. But at the same time, our. Our sort of
initial introduction to Septimus. This is a guy
who, you know, screws the. The
lady of the house in the gazebo. So there's this

(01:09:33):
real. And they're both things.
They're both wants and hungers. You know, there's
the carnal hunger and the intellectual hunger, and they're sort of
equally strong, which is. Which is
thrilling. Right? It's so great.

>> Brendon Fox (01:09:46):
Well, and. And the fact that, too, that, you know, that
Septimus, with this letter addressed to
Thomasina, is so beautiful that on
the night of his death, he wants to continue the
conversation. Right. That. It's like, I've been
here, like you said, Jen, I can't stop thinking about
it. Here's my thoughts on your thoughts.
and, You know, I may not be around

(01:10:09):
to keep the conversation going, but I don't think this was
him saying. And maybe you think. You think otherwise, Chris,
but I don't. My instinct is that he's
not saying, well, here's what it is about rice pudding.
Here's just, like, the next part of the
conversation. I've been thinking about the rice pudding, and here's some additional
thoughts.

It's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:10:27):
It's not the answer. It's
more on, you know,
it's that she would then, oh, then I should be inspired by
that to keep going. Do you know what I mean? That. It's like. It's.
It's the best kind of intellectual discourse of, Based on
what Dr. Kate Moncrief wrote about Troy's and
Cressida. I have this response, and now they have. You know what I mean?
It's that feeling of. Of. It's. It's not like it

(01:10:50):
never ends. Right. Ideally, it's. It's not the sense
of. We've solved it.
Yeah.

So.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:02):
Yeah, go ahead, Chris. Yeah.

We don't know what it. All we know is that it's
about rice. Put it like. We have no.
We have no idea what he was saying to her about it.
yeah, you know, if, It was.
Well, He just
leaves it at it was. She
says she's. She sees it as a discussion about rice pudding, but

(01:11:26):
we can imagine all sorts of things that it could have been.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:28):
Right, Right. Right. And. And the fact that,
like, I love that, Jen. You're just like.
Well, I don't. This is just almost
gibberish of, like, what. Why would you even talk to her?
And even something. So,
You know, what would be the point? Of that
when she's suffering the shock of your death
m. And you decide to talk a gange about

(01:11:51):
rice pudding. It makes no sense. And I
love Chris hearing him say, wait, who's
death? And she's like, well, yours, obviously. I'm gaining this
out. Like, you know, oh, a little cattail.
I think that's, you know, to me, there's like
that jumped out at me as a moment, I think Chris and Jennifer,
where it's like the chess game of, oh,

(01:12:13):
oh, another moment when he was off
footed, right. Where Lady Croom is like, come on,
keep up. Yeah, right.
I think that's. And I feel like Thomasina
has moments like that too. Like, come on, Septimus. Like where the
scene ends. Like, it's so obvious.
We don't get to hear why it's obvious

(01:12:34):
to her. And I love at that moment, that's when Septimus was like, okay, that's a little
cocky. Lucky, you know, even for
you, that that's a. You know,
I think you should spill your rule.

One of those fun little Easter eggs too, because this
theorem wasn't proved until
1994.

>> Nathan Agin (01:12:50):
Right.

So she is ahead of her. She's
ahead of her time. You know, one more thought on the,
On the rice pudding moment. It's also
as smart as Lady Croom is. That just seems like
a, you know, stupid detail to her. But what
Thomasina had been saying about the rice pudding, the way she was thinking
about how you can't unstir it.

(01:13:11):
Right?

Yeah.

And at the moment of his death, when you're thinking about,
like, you can't undo a thing, you can't
unstir a thing. And time is
passing and this moment of a duel,
you can't unstir, it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:13:25):
Right.

You can't go back. So I think it's really interesting that
he's. That's for me, that's for
that conversation that they're having with each other.
And something she brought up makes sense that he might be
thinking about that on his death.

>> Brendon Fox (01:13:39):
Which is kind of also sad to me
that a very melancholy sense of, how did I get here?
Right? This sense of like, why did it have to come to this? I
mean, Jennifer, you mentioned this whole idea of. I've never thought of a
duel worth the woman or vice versa.
And it's something to
be thinking about. Chris is like, what, you know, his

(01:14:00):
state of mind as he comes in and like the night, his past,
the fact that the duel didn't happen, but that he was
ready for this. He had prepared Himself. I
mean it also sets up beautifully for you
both in the scene. The given circumstances
of both of you being in these extreme
emotional places. Right. That, that

(01:14:20):
Septimus can wax about that great line about. I love the
early morning. If only didn't come so early in the day, you know, that, that whole
thing. But also
underneath he almost. He had almost.
He could have just died, you know. And
so it allows. It really does a nice job of
setting you both up to be,

(01:14:40):
with one less layer of protection. Right. With all the
chaos going on in your house, Jennifer, and all of the
to be or not to be going on with you, Chris, in
the, in the, in the. In the other. In the. You
know, on their side of the park. It's you
both now meet in the
middle of the night, which is also this wonderful liminal time.

(01:15:00):
Right. Then neither of you have slept.
It sets you up to be in this place of.
Well, screw it. I'm just going to say what I feel.
you know, I mean life's short as this
place shows us in a really awful, bittersweet way. You know,
Thomasina doesn't live past that
birthday. And so this feeling of

(01:15:22):
time is flying and
you can't unstir things.
So you know, I
will say this to you, I will tell you why, what I was thinking
when I was with the cheater, you know, even if it blows up
in my face, if not now,
when you know,

(01:15:42):
and what's interesting and I think there's opportunities when we
come back to that for you both where what is it like,
Jen, for you to hear,
you know, his
real thought. It's one thing to read the letter, right. So
that starts to have you think about him in a. In a particular
way. And then it's another to actually now

(01:16:04):
see him for the first time since reading that letter
and then hear what he has to say about it. Does he disown
it? Does he lean into it?

Yeah. Particularly if. Cause he does
catch her out on.
So was she discovered leaving Lord
Byron's room by Mr.
Chaytor?
Sure,
that's a good story.

(01:16:33):
But like she's caught.
So that could be the deal breaker. But
it's clear to that it isn't.
So it's like, okay, well that's interesting.
Like clearly I was headed toward Lord
Byron's room myself.
And he knows that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:16:53):
Yeah.

And that is not changing his opinion
toward me. That's new information.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:00):
Oh, that's great.

>> Téa Guarino (01:17:02):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:02):
I didn't really clock that. Yeah. And then what I
noticed too this time was when you say your
behavior, you know, how
do you square what you wrote to me versus the fact that you were
with the cheater? so which is
it? Right? So, like, even if I'm considering
anything happening, can you explain.
Yeah. What's

(01:17:24):
your deal in terms of us? Right. Did she get a
letter like this as well, you know?

Yeah. And it does seem like it's new information,
like that nothing has happened like this
between the two of them before. So it's like this is just
brand new information, it seems.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:41):
Yes. You know, and you and Chris, you've
watched her flirt with that, you
know, the, the, the other, you know, what is it? Is it the music
teacher, right? And, and,
and Byron. And it's like I, I love
that moment when you say, you know, about our hearts
can go everywhere except those who are, who deserve them.

(01:18:01):
And, and you have this moment, Chris. Well, true that.
Right. And there's a pause there that I would
encourage us to explore of, like, what's that like for
you, Jennifer? Of. Oh,
you know what I mean? Like, is there a, is there a
maybe a penny drop? A little bit of
that, you know, Septimus is waiting

(01:18:23):
for. Did you hear what you just said? You know,
do you see me after all of these other men
who have come through here? And I'm wallpaper.
I'm just the tutor. And I am, you know,
I'm an extension of Thomasina.
Do you see me as a man and as
someone who wants you? And I've been here all

(01:18:45):
for years, literally. The thing we forget is
that, like, years pass in this play and
there's Septimus, right?
And Thomasina grows, you know, and
new people come and go and then there. But that I also could see why
Chris, that could do harm to you to be like, hey, remember
me? And she's like, yeah, good morning. It's like

(01:19:06):
time lapse photography of their septimist just
being like, still nothing. Nothing,
you know?

but there is a measure of like, he's. He's on his way out the
door in this scene too, right? He's
leaving nothing, nothing to lose. I have
no, like, I'm going to lose my job if I say
anything to the lady of the house about, about
how I feel or any of this. So there's a
measure of like
it too. And maybe, and

(01:19:35):
maybe heightened by a
quasi near death experience or at least contemplating your own
mortality
with the possibility of a duel and debt. Like,
maybe there's some, some freedom in
that to just, say it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:19:52):
Sign late. Yeah.

So, that she doesn't know already,
right?

>> Brendon Fox (01:19:59):
Because, well, because you, you, you're right. I mean it finally like you
put it down in paper talking about not taking something back. You
can't unstir that, right? And, and I,
I love that you gave yourself. You thought this was foolproof. Chris
of like, well, you know, if I win, maybe I can get those
letters back. If I lose, no harm, no foul, I'm out.
Right? But it's like, well, I

(01:20:20):
live. And now, you know, and now what?
Yeah, and she's like, yeah, ah,
here's what, what, what do I do with this?
You know, and, and so I think there's an interesting
thing for the whole scene of the two of you clocking each
other with this new information of
you know, Septimus has been. You've been viewing
her and we don't know for how long, but there seems to be this long

(01:20:42):
standing attraction and. Whereas if I
wonder about for you, Jennifer, of like to make it
as exciting and as immediate, how much is
it. Is she processing
right? Is the lens changing on Septimus?
Of, Well, he's always been witty, he's always been good to have here
and you trust him, et cetera, to a degree. But

(01:21:03):
now it's this.
So, you know, do we just acknowledge that and not
go any further? I mean, you know,
that alone would be an amazing scene, but the
fact that if we decide to push it further is
where they keep going into more dangerous territory.

(01:21:26):
so going back to the beginning, in that first
scene, something. And we can always
tighten this up and such, but I would encourage
us from the jump. Ah,
you know, for both of you, Taya and Jeff. Ah,
of how many, how often can we
be stopped in our tracks? You know,

(01:21:47):
the fact that, like, what you're supposed to be doing, Taya, is what you're supposed to
be doing. Your algebra. Right.
Isn't that like you're on your side of the table?
That's your homework, right? So while you're working on
that, Jeff, you're struggling
to get through couch of Eros,
is that right?

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:07):
And for what? To give it a review or what. What is,
the. What's. What's the purpose of this?

Well, I expect it's. Am I on? Yeah, I expect it's
to give it a review. I mean,
didn't Septimus write the review that. That
Chater is so upset about?

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:23):
Yeah, yeah.

For his previous work.

Yeah, he's a, you know, he's a New
York Review of Books. He's A reviewer.

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:33):
Yeah. So that's how you get some extra money too,
right? Besides being the tutor.

Yeah.
yeah, I think. Yes, that's. That's what I'm doing. And it's.
It's like study hall. You
know, we're both. There's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:49):
Yeah.

Quietly doing our work, and all of a sudden she comes up with this question,
right.

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:54):
Well, it's kind of. Yeah, go
ahead.

Well, that sort of thing where, you know, you're sitting around, you're sitting around,
and then just out of the blue, you ask whoever is in
the room, you know,
some completely out of the blue question.
There's no context. Right, right. For what?

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:13):
Well, well, there is for. Not for you, but for her.
Right. Because, Ted, don't you say that
they. You heard them saying. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah.

>> Téa Guarino (01:23:23):
I specifically say it wasn't the algebra that I'm
working on. But it's me overhearing
the. But as far as, like, the immediate.

Exactly.

>> Téa Guarino (01:23:32):
As far as the immediate. No, as. I think I'm just
literally doing it, like doing my homework. I'm
just like. Wait a minute, I just heard that.
What does that mean? Like, just.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:43):
Right.

>> Téa Guarino (01:23:43):
I think it's just like a,

Exactly.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:46):
Well, it's.

And it's more of a conversation we've been having. It's just.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:50):
No, no, exactly.

Completely out of the blue. And all she's been doing is looking at
algebra and algebra
have. Have carnal embrace. Is that in. In the
algebra?

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:01):
Yeah.

Where did that come from?

You know, it does.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:04):
Well, here's the thought to what. What if. I mean, what if
you're both struggling?
So, Jeff, what if we lean into. In, this kind of
study, all that. You are like nails on a
chalkboard, finger down your throat.

Yeah, it's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:20):
This is. It's revolting how
you. You can't bring yourself to read another line of this, and
yet you need that money. Right? So you are
so. The more. More. I think that also allows
you to be more sideswiped by Taya if you are
so, you know, engaged
and. And, you know, and in pain

(01:24:40):
over this thing. And I wonder, Taya, for. For
you, is there the opportunity of, like, you're trying to
do the algebra and you can't solve what carnal
embraces on your own.

>> Téa Guarino (01:24:50):
I was so, like, thinking that, Yeah. Like, if everything
is an X plus Y equals mx M
plus B in my head, I'm like, putting together the
conversation and like, there's no equal.
So, like.

>> Brendon Fox (01:25:02):
Yeah.

>> Téa Guarino (01:25:02):
the only person who could know this is
Septimus. So I have to ask him this.
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:25:08):
Right, right. So that it's like, what if that's the equivalent of you throwing down
the algebra brook, right? And being like,
all right, I need help.
I need to hit the buzzer. M.
Right. That's like, I really wanted to solve this
myself. And we
probably don't even know how many things you've solved without
even talking to somebody.

(01:25:31):
That's just like, Tuesday for you. And then. So if it's actually,
like, in that place of. Okay,
then it can. What if it. Then it bursts out of you?

>> Téa Guarino (01:25:40):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:25:41):
Of like, And, you know, we've all had that, right? Like, you think that
you've had this conversation with them already, or you think you've already
jumped a couple of steps and the person goes, wait,
what? You're like, no,
you know this. Why don't you.
You're in my head, right? I mean, it feels like you two have spent so much time
together that, you have been able to speak each

(01:26:01):
other's language. That's why later in the scene, Jeff, you can go. All right, let me guess.
You're thinking this. No, you're thinking that.
And so it makes sense to me, Taya, that you're
like, well, obviously, you know what I'm going to say. You know what I'm
going to ask.

>> Téa Guarino (01:26:13):
Hm.

>> Brendon Fox (01:26:14):
Help me. Like, we have to
tell me the answer on this. Like you said, there's no equals. So let's
go. Yeah, I wanted to know this two hours
ago.

>> Téa Guarino (01:26:23):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:26:24):
And algebra is not comparing.
There's no way I can even not think about
this. I can't get back to the algebra until I solve
for why. Solve for carnal embrace.
And that allows yourself to kind of grab Jeff
by the shirt verbally and be
like, dude, what is

(01:26:47):
this?

That's very good. And there's this interesting thing. I
mean, what you just said made me think of, you know when
you ask someone just happened to be sitting with, you know,
literally something from another language, like,
so, what does pan dolce mean? What does that
mean? And the other person is, you know, what.
What. What are you talking about? And. And

(01:27:11):
how quickly. Well,
I was just. This section about where he goes
to the Latin made me think,
I'm sorry, you didn't understand that. Isn't that what he
means when he says, I'm sorry the seed fell on barren ground,
like.

>> Brendon Fox (01:27:26):
Yes.

You had that word back when we were studying the Gallic wars, right?
When you were. You.

>> Brendon Fox (01:27:31):
You.

You should know that word. So you should have known
it. And if you. I'm sorry you
didn't remember. Obviously it didn't take.
And it's really like.

>> Brendon Fox (01:27:43):
Which is great that like, you turn it back on her maybe as a way to
move on. Right? And then like. And instead of being
shamed, then you turn. Now we're going to talk about
masturbation. And it's like you, you. And you did it
to yourself in a way that it's like. Wait, stony
ground. I've heard that phrase.

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:28:00):
You know, and once again.

Yeah, once again she gets ahead of me. It's like she can't
there. It's like.

>> Brendon Fox (01:28:07):
So I think there's opportunities, Jeff, for you to take.
Let, Let us see those hiccups, right? Like, lean
into the, the skipping on the record to,
Before you can respond,
so that we can see, I think, even from the jump. What if we
even try that very first. So if you really, you know,
give yourself a moment for you and Jeff

(01:28:28):
to just sit there working on your own thing,
being tormented by the thing. You're being tormented,
each of you. And then whenever you're ready,
Taya, let, it out full force. And
then. And Jeff have to.
Let's see you scramble.

Okay?

>> Téa Guarino (01:28:46):
Oh, yeah, sure. Let's do it.

Brendan, if I might add something just to go further with what
you're saying, I'm wondering if this is the thing that makes
today different than the last hundred
days. This is a big country
house. Her job is to study, his job is to teach
her one
day might look a lot like the next. But
today she's got some tea, right?

>> Brendon Fox (01:29:12):
Yeah, that's true. Yes. That's great, Kate.
Because then also you, Jeff, because I noticed
that step is like, no go. Wait, I back up. Back the tape
up. But who? But who? So I think there's opportunities
there, Jeff, when we get to that section, to be like,
now I need to know.

Yeah, yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:29:29):
You know, and, and, and, and now this is the first time, like you
said, maybe ever.

How many people know that? Well, it's just the groom and the horsemen
and the butler and you know, everybody in the house
except.

>> Brendon Fox (01:29:40):
Yes, Right. Professor Plum in the
study.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:29:43):
With the candlestick. He knows too. They. Everybody.
So. Yeah.
Okay.

>> Téa Guarino (01:29:54):
So we're doing this now, right? Are we doing okay?
Septimus, what is
carnal embrace?

Carnal embrace is the practice
of throwing one's arms around a side of
beef.

>> Téa Guarino (01:30:24):
Is that all?

No, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry. no, no, no. A shoulder of
mutton. a haunch of Venison.
well, hugged. An embrace of grouse.
Carl. Carnis feminine
flesh.

>> Téa Guarino (01:30:42):
Is it a sin?

Not necessarily, my lady. But when carnal embrace
is a sin, it is a sin of the
flesh. QED
we had Karo in our Garlic
Wars. Garlic
Wars? The Britons live
on milk and meat. Lacte et carne

(01:31:04):
vivunt. I'm sorry that
the seed fell on barren ground.

>> Téa Guarino (01:31:10):
that was the sin of Onan, wasn't it,
Septimus?

Yes. He was giving his wife
his. He was giving his brother's
wife a Latin lesson, and she was hardly
the wiser after it than before.
I. I thought you were finding a proof of Fermat's last
theorem.

>> Téa Guarino (01:31:30):
It is very difficult, Septimus. You will have
to show me how.

If I knew how, there would be no need for you.
There would be no need to ask you.
Fermat's last theorem has kept people busy for
150 years. And I had hoped it would keep
you busy long enough for me to read Mr. Chaytor's
poem in praise of love with only the distraction of
its own absurdities.

>> Téa Guarino (01:31:54):
Our Mr. Chater has written a poem.

He believes he's written a poem?
yes. He believes he's written a poem. Yes. I
can see that there might be more carnality in your
algebra than in Mr. Chater's couch of
Eros.

>> Brendon Fox (01:32:09):
Let me stop you there for a second. yeah. First of all,
I love kicking things off with that kind of
intensity. how's that feeling?

Oh, it's good.

>> Brendon Fox (01:32:18):
To you, that, and
I think, Jeff, to me, taking that much time,
we are really exactly where you are. If you take that much
time, we can be shocked by carnal embrace. So that
you and the audience are right there with you, trying to
come up with. Okay, I'm gonna have to answer something. I'm gonna
go with this, right?

(01:32:39):
And then I think, taya, that's great. I
think right from the beginning of then. Is that
all? I love Jeff, you thought you were done,
and then you have to. Now, okay, I'm back in
it. here we go. you know, and then building
that list of the mutton, the venison.
you know, and by the time you got to feminine flesh,

(01:33:00):
that was another place of like, okay, done. We're
closing the door, right?

And.

>> Brendon Fox (01:33:05):
And that. That sense of we're. And I
think. I wonder, Tam, when we come back to it, the
what if you let Thomasina
really now come around in a new, surprising way?
So now you're talking about spirituality.
So that has to be an what if. That's a whole nother thing that
can sideswipe Jeff of, Oh, that.

(01:33:25):
Wow. Okay. Yeah. So now we're
talking sin.
Right? Just when I was able to. Yeah, I mean,
you know, I mean, so I think you have to open up, a whole other can
of worms there in a much, in a much bigger way. Right now it feels
like it's flowing. You're almost making it too naturally
organic.

>> Téa Guarino (01:33:43):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:33:44):
In the conversation. And I, I think you can be
a little more, you know, I think.

>> Téa Guarino (01:33:50):
I can like third. I think I can be more 13 with
it. Like, this is all, like, I, I keep forgetting
that, like, I'm definitely 13 learning all of
this. So I could, I can definitely give it
more. Yeah. Ah, like, oh my gosh.

>> Brendon Fox (01:34:04):
Like, because she's. And she's able to jump around as this
13, brilliant 13 year old in a way that septimization
works in a more linear way. But you're now going, okay, yes, but now what
about spiritual. But also, what about the etymology? But also
right, so that you're this electron that keeps
bouncing around and he has to kind of keep up with
you.

It's, it's interesting because she's picking up both. Again, this. Is
that, that duality because you're picking
up on, on the word. This weird,
you, know, carnal embrace this thing.
And doesn't she ask, it seems to me she asked
about sin because of the way everyone is whispering about it
and the way they shut up about it the second that,

(01:34:42):
you know, when they realized you were in the room. It's like, don't, don't talk about
it because. Because of the kid. So that raises this other
thing. Well, is it, is it wrong? And if
it's, you know, in 1809, wrong means
sinful. Right. So, yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:34:55):
Ah, so. Well, that's, that's true. Because that goes. Jeff,
with what you. And you only answered part of her question.

Answered.

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:02):
Part of what we talked about was carnal. Right, Carnegie.

Yeah. And I tried, I tried to move it. I try to make it
into a lesson. Like, I'm the teacher. Okay.
carnal. It comes from this word. And I remember
the Latin. let's talk about Latin. And then she goes,
forget about school. I want to know that.
Why is everyone whispering?

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:22):
Right.

Oh, go ahead.

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:25):
No, go ahead.

I was going to say, it may be obvious, but in
1809, answering fully, honestly
is a great way to get fired. Like if you're
a tutor and you've got a 13 year old pupil
like your parent. The parents will absolutely
fire if you keep an honest answer. So it's also just a
great way.

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:42):
To, not get fired. Jennifer, did you say
1809 or 2024.

Oh, sorry.

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:48):
Yes.

Thank you.

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:50):
Has anything changed?

Geez, you guys actually have to teach
Go.

Yeah, but, like, you know, like, that is seriously,
like, if anyone walks in while you are
accurately describing this.

Bye.

You are fired now. So.
Yeah, there's that too.

>> Brendon Fox (01:36:10):
And at the same time, here's the amazing thing, Jeff, is
that another person would
lie to her, would give her half
truths, but there's some. A bond that you two have already
made before this
scene starts, before the play starts, where you will
answer her in this

(01:36:30):
container of truth. All right, now I'm going to give you this container of truth.
When you say, but when carnal embrace is
sinful, it is a sin of the flesh, Huey. And you're right.
And that's what I love, is that when
you are pushed by her to go further, you
do. You don't say. That's not proper.
What I think is beautiful is that there's no

(01:36:50):
judgment. There's no. You should not be talking about
this.

Yeah. And universes. I'll tell you later.
Or no, actually for your parents or something like
that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:36:59):
Right. And you don't even, like, acknowledge
that, I'm out of
my depth or any of that. Like, you're not going to initiate
it. That's what I want. I was getting at. If she
asks, I will answer in a way that hopefully won't get me
fired, but I will not
not answer. Right. But hopefully you're.

(01:37:20):
You're good with this answer. Oh, you're not?

No.

>> Brendon Fox (01:37:23):
Crap. Okay. I'll give you this much more.
Right. But you're not going to open the floodgates until we.
That's why we need this whole scene because she keeps
going. I think there's more behind that door. I, think
there's. You're not still. And maybe. Why is today different,
Taya? Is maybe. Is this the first day you see
Septimus squirm? You see him?

(01:37:44):
you can. Your spider sense is tingling. Going.
I don't think you're. And you would literally say this to him?
I don't think you're being honest with me. At one point. I don't know if you've ever
said that to him, you know, And I'm
ashamed of you. What if those are all things
you have never said? So I wonder. Jeff, when she says I'm
ashamed. You should Be ashamed of yourself

(01:38:04):
if what? If you think, oh, my God, she's added it up and
she knows. What should I be
ashamed of? Lying? Having sex. There's a million things I could be
ashamed of. Right. and it's the one thing you don't count
on is what she means.
But it's. But I think it can go deep, Téa Of
like, see this? The last 10 minutes
you've been holding back, and to me,

(01:38:26):
it only works if it's never been like that.
And, ah, I love that you come to it, Jeff. You're like, yep,
you're right.

Yep.

>> Brendon Fox (01:38:36):
I am ashamed. I. I should have handled this whole scene
better.

I love what comes next after that. Not just the
ashamed, but what Thomasina
says, if you do not teach me the true meaning of things,
who will?

>> Brendon Fox (01:38:50):
Right?

I mean, she really calls him out on what are we
doing here and the intellectual relationship
they've developed with each other.

>> Brendon Fox (01:38:57):
Right.

She expects him to teach
her.

>> Brendon Fox (01:39:02):
And, the interesting thing is she
does not expect her parents. She does not
expect anyone else in the world, literally. She's a pretty privileged
person at this time of the
world in England, and she's got a lot of resources.
But also the fact that. It's interesting, too,
Jennifer, that. I mean,

(01:39:23):
Kate, tell me if this is accurate, but I would imagine that
many houses of this time and this status are
not spending a lot of money on tutors for their daughters.

I was just going to say exactly the same thing. She's very
privileged and has a lot of resources, but she's a
girl. Although in some
households, yes. daughters were educated. It was
rare, but in some, it was true. Like in Lord
Byron's household, his daughter,
Ada.

>> Brendon Fox (01:39:49):
Yeah. M. And. And. And so
I would imagine that Jeff. Septimus
was tutoring both.
Both her and her brother, but her brother is
now about to go off to. Right.

Eaton might be there because she has a brother. You know, he's
brought in to tutor the brother, and the sister gets tutored, too.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:10):
And she's a much more interested pupil.

She's a genius.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:14):
Right. So it actually. It gives
Septimus some. You know,
it's more than. I mean, I can imagine, you know, Chris
and Jeff, that you're pretty lucky when you
probably, if you ever correspond with other tutors or, you know, other
people who have the privilege, the
1.0% of guys who could be
hired to live, on an estate.

(01:40:36):
Right. As a tutor. And the fact that,
like, that alone is you've won the lottery. And the fact
that nine times out of ten, you're stuck with kids who do
not appreciate
everything you have to offer. And then
the 0.0001% is you get
Thomasina.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think he's. I think
he. You
know, I love. The Greeks have, like, three different words for love, but
I think he loves Thomasina. I think. I think, you
know, in the agape sense or whatever it
is, I think he knows what she
is to some extent.
And, Yeah. I mean, it's

(01:41:17):
fun talking to her. It's fun.

>> Brendon Fox (01:41:19):
Yeah. Unless it's about carnal embrace
and then it doesn't become so fun.

Well, then it's. Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:41:26):
Then it's like, but how do I do this?
Yeah. In a way that does not shut it down. Because it's
like. And I think you know her well enough to be like, she's
watching you. She's listening to everything. It's like that
Sondheim song, Children Will Listen. She will. She's
gonna. She's gonna catch you out if you BS her.
And I love that we don't see the beginning of your
relationship. We get it to a point where there is such trust,

(01:41:50):
and I think so. Then when you pick up with
tea. That was the sin of Onan, wasn't it?
Septimus. I wonder. What if there's an
opportunity to make that her first big light bulb
of, like, wait, I do remember that. I don't remember the carne thing,
because that wasn't interesting, but I do remember the
seed falling on the ground. So you
know what I mean? And that could be kind of fun if, like, oh, for you,

(01:42:12):
Jeff. Oh, great. So that's what you remember. Please, please don't
tell your parents. That's. That was the
takeaway. the. The fact
that when it also
strikes me as interesting, Jeff, that almost
immediately, with. Only with the distraction of
its own absurdities, and the
next chunk you share

(01:42:35):
with Thomasina, your own
snarkiness about shader that you don't have
to do. You know what I mean? You could have kept it
super profess and just being like, well,
I'm reading this. Or, you know, but you
actually kind of blur that line too.

Oh, yeah, that's what I mean.
He talks to her. You know,
he talks to her like a person. He. He.
Yes. I think that's. That's the kind of exchange that
tells me again how. How,
mature for whatever it is their relationship is, or
how hard he holds her in

(01:43:15):
and the fact that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:43:16):
You can trust her. Right. I mean, you could say these things to her
that could. Another child. Another child of
her age could. It could get back
to chador. But to me, it tells me
that you not only respected her, you
trust that I can say this to you off the cuff
and it's not going to bite me in the butt later, right?

(01:43:37):
And it does kind of show me, Taya, that I love that you
jumped on the. Oh, my God, he's written a poem.
What? Right.
I love that. And that's the 13 year old too. Now it's bright shiny
object, right? Well, tell me about. Let's talk about
that. And that seems great, Jeff. Good. Now we're not talking
about sex anymore. We're not. No more carnal brace.

(01:43:57):
Let's let. I'm happy to trash Jader and the
poem as long as we're in old. Circle back to that, right? But
then I love that you. You again. You can't help yourself, Jeff.
Of. I think there'll be more carnality in your algebra than
Mr. You know, cheater's couch of Eros.
And then that's when we start
to. We have that first pause, right, Jeff? Of the

(01:44:17):
discovering carnal embrace in the gazebo.
And then you start to prod,
right? The. With whom did Jellyby happen to say.

Well, yeah, I have to find out how much trouble I'm in,
right?

>> Brendon Fox (01:44:30):
So. And the fact that you jump right into that. Of that. Oh,
shit. How much trouble am I in? Is
your first big slip up, right? That Tay is like.
What do you mean? With whom? Yeah,
so. And that's great, Jeff. You have to really strip the gears. No,
no. Oh, my bad, my bad. Did I stay with whom? What?
That was that. That. I don't know what I was thinking. Right?

(01:44:51):
That's. So
that. That's the. The start of
kind of. You can't. Because also, I feel
like, Jeff, this is your one shot before
anyone comes in. There's urgency, right? It's like, well, if
this is out, who knows? And I've got
to shut this down ASAP because somebody's

(01:45:11):
going to come into this room. You know what I mean? This is not a private.
You're not in Lady Croon's closet.
M. Or this, is a pretty open space
here. So I also love that. That kind of gives.
There's some stakes to. Okay, tell
me quick, what is happening with. What's
going on out there? Tell me about this Carnot embrace.

(01:45:33):
could we jump in? Taya, with the. Our
Mr. Shader has written a poem. Can we just do a little bit of that?

>> Téa Guarino (01:45:42):
Our Mr. Chater has written a poem.

He believes he's written a poem. Yes.
I can see that there might be more carnality in your
algebra than in Mr. Chaytor's couch of Eros.

>> Téa Guarino (01:45:55):
Oh, it was not my
algebra. I heard Jellyby telling cook
that Mrs. Chaytor were discovered in a carnal embrace
in the gazebo.

Really? With Hm?
Whom did Jellyby happen to say?

>> Téa Guarino (01:46:15):
What do you mean? With whom?

With what? exactly. So the idea is
absurd. Where did this story
come from?

>> Téa Guarino (01:46:24):
Mr. Noakes. Mr.
Noakes, Papa's landscape gardener. M. He
was taking bearings in the garden when he saw through his
spyglass. Mrs. Chater in the gazebo
in carnal embrace.

You mean to tell me that Mr. Noaks told
the butler?

>> Téa Guarino (01:46:41):
No, Mr. Noakes told Mr.
Cher. Jellyby was told by the
groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr. Cher in
the stable yard.

Mr.

Chair.

>> Brendon Fox (01:46:52):
Wait one second. Sorry, Téa So I think that's the
first time you mentioned the groom. Right.
In all this. So I think we have to pop that
more. Now we have an eighth person.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:47:04):
See what I mean? So keep. I think you have to introduce each
character with a bit more.

>> Téa Guarino (01:47:09):
Gotcha.

>> Brendon Fox (01:47:10):
Right.

>> Téa Guarino (01:47:11):
Got it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:47:16):
go ahead.

Do you mean to tell me that Mr. Noakes told the
butler?

>> Téa Guarino (01:47:21):
Chater. Jellyby was told by
the groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling
Mr. Chaytor in the stable yard.

Mr. Chaytor being engaged in closing the stable
door.

>> Téa Guarino (01:47:37):
What do you mean? Septimus?

>> Brendon Fox (01:47:39):
Okay, so, Jeff, I have a huge question here.
What does he. What is he getting at?
What's the stable door moment?

He's closing the barn door after the horse is already
out.

>> Brendon Fox (01:47:51):
Oh, that's. Okay.

That's the expression. I mean, his wife is.
Yes, his wife is already
out in the package. Village notice board.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:02):
Yeah.

Which apparently everybody knows except for Mr. Shader.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:06):
Right, right. Yes. That's. That's great.

I mean, that's. That's a. That's a.
That's a. Yeah, it seems.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:14):
Yeah. So this is Septimus being clever for Septimus in a way, because
that's going right over her head. Okay.
Okay, cool.

And this question, I do just. I just flat
out don't answer it at all.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:26):
Yes. Yes.

Move on to the next thing.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:29):
So can we go back to. And do you mean to tell me that Mr. Noakes told the
butler?

M. And do
you mean to tell me that Mr. Noaks told the
butler?

>> Téa Guarino (01:48:39):
Chater. Jellyby was told by the
groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr.
Chater in.

The stable yard, Mr. Chaytor being engaged
in closing the stable door.

>> Téa Guarino (01:48:54):
What do you mean, Septimus M. So.

Thus far, the only people who know about this
are, Mr. Noakes, the landscape guard,
architect, the groom, the butler, the cook, and of course,
Mrs. Chaytor's husband, the poet,
and.

>> Téa Guarino (01:49:09):
And Arthur, who was cleaning the silver
and the boot boy. And now
you, of course.

What, else did he say, Mr. Noakes?
no, not Mr. Noakes. Jellyby. You heard
Jellyby telling the cook?

>> Téa Guarino (01:49:27):
Cook hushed him almost as soon as he started.
Jellyby did not see that I was being allowed to finish
yesterday's upstairs rabbit pie before I came to my
lesson. I think
you have not been candid with me,
Septimus. A
gazebo is not,
after all, a meat larder.

Ah. I, never, said my definition was
complete.

>> Téa Guarino (01:49:54):
Is Connor embrace kissing?

Yes.

>> Téa Guarino (01:49:58):
And throwing one's arms around Mrs.
Chaytor?

Yes. Now, Femat's last
theory.

>> Téa Guarino (01:50:06):
I hope you are ashamed. I,
milady, if you do not
teach me the true meaning of things,
who will?

Ah.
yes, I am.
M ashamed.
Carnal embrace is sexual
congress, which is the insertion of the
male genital organ into the female genital
organ for purposes of procreation and
pleasure.

(01:50:38):
Fermat's last theorem, by contrast, asserts
that when X, Y, and Z are whole
numbers, each raised to the power of N,
the sum of the first two can never
equal the third when n is greater than
2.
Well, nevertheless, that is the theorem.

>> Téa Guarino (01:51:00):
It is
disgusting and
incomprehensible. Now, when
I'm grown to practice it myself, I shall never
do so without thinking of you.

Thank you very much, my lady. was Mrs. M.
Chaytor down this morning?

>> Téa Guarino (01:51:19):
No. Tell me more about
sexual congress.

There is nothing more to be said about sexual congress.

>> Téa Guarino (01:51:27):
Is it the same as love?

Oh, no, it's much nicer than
that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:51:32):
Great. Let's hold there.
I love that. Now that she's disgusted by
it. Thank you very much. I've
done my job.
That struck me this time of perfect. Good. Ew. Ew. Ew.
Yes, absolutely. I'm great with
that reaction. No notes.

We're not gonna. Yeah, we're not gonna talk about that anymore, I
guess.

>> Brendon Fox (01:51:54):
Right, But. And you kind of saved it, right, Jeff? It's like, you went through the
last four pages, you know,
skiing the double diamond slope through all of this,
and you take the plunge. You. You make it
totally technical. She gets grossed out, and
you're like, excellent. That's exactly what I was hoping
for. Okay,

(01:52:15):
but then your neck. I love that you go back to the urgent problem
of. Okay, but tell me about, let's go back to Mrs.
Chaytor for a second.

The actual. Yes, the thing is right now. Yeah,
okay. Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:52:25):
And, and the last thing I want to mention that we'll come back to
next week is it's much nicer than that
to me feels like that
mo that going back to what we talked about with, with
Jennifer and you Chris of
oh no, love sucks.
No, love's the worst actually. You know, because
it's, it's, it's, it's like it's this whole idea of love and sex but

(01:52:47):
this idea of these moments that Septimus is saying things that he
kind of almost nose will go over her head but you just have to say
it, you have to, you have to put it out there. And I,
I think that there's just some really. Is it, you know,
is it the same as love? It's m. Much nicer than that. It's not just
clever, it's actually honest of.
Yeah, I, I

(01:53:08):
There, there is that what, what you're feeling for
lady croom is not
fun.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:53:18):
Yeah, go ahead.

Love is pain. Yeah, love is pain.

>> Brendon Fox (01:53:21):
So I think there's an opportunity when we come back to that Jeff of like what
happens if we show another shade there that passes
over us a little bit. Just see what happens with
in terms of you know that it's,
it's like even if we forego a little bit of the
clever spin, it's a chance for him
to share. I mean that's what's interesting is that

(01:53:42):
he, he's, you know,
he's kind of lonely. I mean he does end up being a
hermit. And what's fascinating as
I'm, as I'm working with you all today is it's striking me
how it's beautiful and also really sad that
he can, can share all this with
Thomasina. His closest
peer is a 13 year old girl

(01:54:03):
genius. And so he's, he has
this great job people would kill for in London and
yet you know, you're,
you're, you're sharing these things with her that are maybe not super
appropriate, but who else can you share them with?

Yeah, exactly.

Brendan kind of put one little spin on great job.
Because this is, you know, if you're somebody who has
money, you, you're not, you don't have to do this job. So this
is maybe a guy who went to Oxford, who went to Cambridge
and he might not have other Options.
And if you read a bunch of 19th century literature, being a
governess or a tutor kind of sucked. Man. You're stuck

(01:54:39):
on some old estate. You don't even like
eat with the family. You're the help. You have this like
great mind. And it's, you
know, there were real challenges in a, in a job like
this, including loneliness. And if you know, his
only peer, like to amplify what you're saying there, his only
peer is, is a 13 year old genius.

(01:55:00):
And that's great that he's got somebody, but the job
itself is. Got some downsides.

>> Brendon Fox (01:55:05):
Well, and Chris, this is something I want us, we can explore with you
and Jennifer next week. Is that like the status
is also this other great thing to add to that scene of
like, you are here at her
whim. Right. She runs the house, not
her husband. We don't know anything about Mr. Croom. And as
she says, very blatantly banishment. I am
God. And I will make it super

(01:55:27):
clear. So I think this other thing about wanting her,
loving her, you know, as much
as she does that, like, it's a little like Twelfth
Night. It's like, how could I love you? How could
I, as Viola, love Orsino? And there's a,
that that gap is going off of. What
Kate's saying is that like, I am not in any way the equal

(01:55:47):
here. I am, I'm here at
your behest. And at any second it could
be pulled out. Right. So even though there is an effort.
Let's go. I'll say this throughout your
entire time here, there is a sense of having to walk on those
eggshells. You know, you do not
love the lady of the house. You

(01:56:07):
know, even if you hook up with, someone of
power you do not love because that
will break your heart. That is not.
Nothing good can come from that. So to me it implies
that when you say that, Jeff, what I hear is this your feelings
for Lady Croom have already been set in motion.

Right? Right, Right, right, right, right.

>> Brendon Fox (01:56:27):
And yet you don't, you don't know what to
do with them.
Hey, Nathan.

>> Nathan Agin (01:56:34):
Hey there. No, this is great.
There's so much great discussion already happening.
I was fortunate to play Septimus about 10 years ago. And I just
remember, I think the actors are experiencing this, that it's just
so much fun wrapping your mouth around
these lines for all the characters. There's
just so much fun with this stuff. and

(01:56:55):
I love the moments of specificity. You guys are already kind
of exploring and going, what can we do this year? And
what surprised me this. And learning us. We're learning
here. and just the general discussion of some of the
themes that, we're covering in these scenes. It's
really wonderful. So I want to thank everybody.
It's been so much fun to be a fly on the wall for this
process. So thank you all for such a great, great first session.

(01:57:17):
And we're just getting started. so for those
of us tuning in, watching, listening, come on back,
there'll be even more discussion. our other actor,
Jellyby Jamie, will be here for the next ones and for
the remaining ones. So, yeah, excited. Keep,
exploring these two scenes from Arcadia. Thank you guys so
much, again, for your time and talents, and it's been, just
wonderful.

>> Brendon Fox (01:57:38):
Thank you, everybody.

>> Nathan Agin (01:57:40):
Yeah, have a great week. Have a great night. we'll talk
again soon. See you next time.

>> Brendon Fox (01:57:45):
Bye.

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Week 1: "Curiosity and Carnal Embrace" - ARCADIA - Tom Stoppard | The Rehearsal Room

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Week 1: "Curiosity and Carnal Embrace" - ARCADIA - Tom Stoppard | The Rehearsal Room