Week 2: "Secrets, Servants, and Self-Determination" - ARCADIA - Tom Stoppard | The Rehearsal Room - The Working Actor's Journey

Episode Transcript
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>> Nathan Agin (00:00):
Hi, everybody. Nathan here. Welcome back for week two as we
continue exploring a couple scenes from Tom
Stoppard's Arcadia. If you haven't checked out week one,
please go back. watch that. There's a lot of great discussion already
underway. I'm sure we'll just keep continuing that.
and, tonight we welcome our jellyby into the mix.
And so, be very exciting to see you,
know how those conversations, develop with that character in mind.

(00:22):
Just everything else we're going to be working on. Jamie, in a
second, if you don't mind. We did this last week. just a
quick intro for the group. You may know some or many
of the actors here, but I don't know if you know everybody. and then
for, you know, people, observing and watching, they can learn a little bit more
about you. and specifically, if you have
any connection to this Stoppard play or, or if

(00:43):
you've worked on other Stoppard plays, that would be fun
to. Fun to hear. but I think that's it for
me. Have a wonderful evening. I'll be
listening in. I'll pop back in at the end. and,
yeah, have a great rehearsal. so that's it. I'll
turn it over to Brendan and Jamie, that quick introduction, and
then, Have a great rehearsal session, everybody.

>> Brendon Fox (01:02):
Thanks, Nathan.
So, Jamie, do you want to jump in?

>> Chris Guilmet (01:09):
Yes.

>> James Newcomb (01:09):
Hello. Hello. Hello. I'm James Newcomb. People that know
me call me Jamie. and I'm comfortable
with either one. my
relationship with this play is a very
interesting one because I was cast to play,
Bernard, in Ashland, and then I turned it
down in order to be with my present wife, Ursula

(01:30):
Meyer, here in San Diego.
And I, was cast as Septimus in another
production a couple of years later. And
I had to turn that down because I was committed to go up
to Seattle to do a show. So twice
I was cast to do this play and I didn't get a chance
to do it, and it's one of my favorite plays.

(01:50):
I just find it, extraordinary. you
know, thermodynamics
in this context. You know, things will cool down
in la, I promise, eventually.
so, they heat up and they cool off.
So, let's pray for the cooling
off quickly.

Yeah.

so my thoughts are very much, right
now, with all of the people in
LA that I know and people. I'm glad,
Jeff, to see that you're in good shape.
Those of you that live In LA that I don't know.
Please be safe. And, I just, You know, it's
just. It's just overwhelming, really is.

(02:33):
So. Anyway, my. My thoughts are very much with that
and, and the idea that
things will. This too shall pass, you
know, and, we'll learn something from
it.
What else do I need to. I have never.

I.

That I'm aware of. I've never done a stopper
play. I would love to be involved in a
Stoppard play someday.
We, shall see. I am now with all of you,
so.

Right. Exactly. I love, Jamie,
that you added. I've never done a stopper play that I'm aware
of. And to me, that reminds me of Rose and Cranza Guildstern. You might
actually have been part of a stopper play.
Unwittingly.

yes.
Yes, maybe. yeah. From,
from a distance.

Right?

>> Geoffrey Wade (03:24):
You did one in your sleep or something.

Well, I. I love that you. You like. It's like
Haley's comment. It's you and this play seems to you. You.
You've come close and now you get to. You get to
reconnect with it. And, I.
Jamie, that I really appreciate what
Nathan has been doing lo these many years with
this rehearsal room and being able to bring people

(03:50):
together from all over the country to focus
on process and have a moment to
just give ourselves a few hours to dive into a
beautiful text with great artists
and, let the work itself
be the thing. And, like you, and
I'm sure like all of us were. Were thinking

(04:10):
and sending, good thoughts to everyone in
la. And I would say one of the things
that, to me makes this play
so resonant years after it was written is
one of the many things to me it's about. Is about empathy
and about trying to understand what someone
else is going through. The researchers looking back,
Thomasina. Trying to understand the world, trying

(04:33):
to understand Thomasina. you know, such
as try to understand Lady Croom.
and I think this, it's.
It's. To me, it's a chance for us
to remember how everything is connected.
And, whether we're present
at a place or not, our thoughts can be there. And I

(04:53):
think exploring and stopard is all about science
and art and nature and,
finding connections. So, you know,
I'm glad you could be here for this, Jamie. And I'm. And thank you all
for. For coming back for week
two. we've, And Jamie, I want to make
sure you Got the dramaturgy packet that Dr.
Kate created?

I did, yes.

Okay, great, great. so
I thought. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Dr. Kate.
And, I thought that we spent
a little bit of. We read both scenes last week,
kind of back to back, talked, unpacked those a little bit, and then we went
back to the first scene, did a chunk of that.
And I would love to now start, with the second

(05:36):
scene with, with, with scene six
and focus on that for maybe our first hour,
take a quick break and then go back to the first scene.
How's that sound, folks?
great. So I, and I'll, I'll read in the, stage
directions and we can just kind of do this with,
with chunks, as we go.

(05:59):
Scene 6. The room is empty. A
reprise. Early morning. A distant pistol
shot. The sound of the crows.
JLB enters the dawn dark room with a lamp.
He goes to the windows and looks out. He sees
something. He returns to put the lamp on the table, then
opens one of the French windows and steps outside.

Mr. Hodge.

Septimus comes in, followed by Jellyby, who closes the garden
door. Septimus is wearing a great coat.

Thank you, Jellyby. I was expecting to be locked
out. What, time is it?

Half past five.

That is what I have. Oh, well,
what a bracing experience.

He produces two pistols from inside his coat and places them on the
table.

The dawn, you know, unexpectedly
lively. fishes, birds,
frogs, rabbits,
produce the dead rabbit.

And very beautiful.

If only it did not occur so early in the day.
I have brought Lady Thomasina a rabbit. Will you
take it?

It's dead.

Yes. Lady Thomasina loves
rabbit pie.

You were missed, Mr. Hodge.

I decided to sleep last night in the boathouse.
Did I see a carriage leaving the park?

Captain Bryce's carriage. with Mr.
And Mrs. Chater also
gone? Yes, sir.
And Lord Byron's horse was brought
round at 4 o'clock.

Lord Byron too?
Yes, sir.

the house has been up and hopping.

But I have his rabbit pistols.

What am I to do with his rabbit pistols?

you were locked. you looked for in your room.

By whom?

By her Ladyship.

In my room?

I, will tell her Ladyship you are returned.

Jellyby, did Lord
Byron leave a book for me? A book?
He had the loan of a book from me.

His Lordship left nothing in his room.
So, sir, not a coin?

Ah.

well, I'm sure he would have left a coin
if he had one. Jellyby, here's
half guinea for you.

Thank you very much, sir.

What has occurred?

the servants are Told nothing, sir.

Come, come, Jellyby. Does a half guinea buy
nothing anymore.

Her ladyship encountered Mrs. Chaytor during
her night.

Where?

Oh, the threshold of Lord Byron's
room.

Ah.

which one was leaving?

In which entering Mrs. Chaytor was leaving
Lord Byron's room.

And where was Mr. Chater?

Mr. Chaytor and Captain Bryce were
drinking cherry brandy. they had the
footman to keep the fire up until
3:00. there was a loud
altercation upstairs and

>> Jennifer Le Blanc (09:03):
Well, Mr. Hodge.

My lady.

All this to shoot a hare?

A rabbit?

no, indeed. A hare though. Very rabbit.

Like my infusion.

Yes, m'lady.

Great. Let's hold there for for a moment.
so what. What do we. We get a lot of information, but also
I'm interested to see what. What are we
learning about Jellyby
and their relationship? Because something I mentioned
last week, Jamie, that to me is. Is
really, you know, every. Every play I feel like, has its

(09:40):
challenges and I feel like this
sometimes could be sometimes like with, you
know, Shaw or some other playwrights that can
be really intellectual. Like to remember where all
the chakras are. Right. What's at stake
besides just the wit and the smart talk
and how high can we make the stakes for
everybody? So I'm curious

(10:02):
about any thoughts from the two of you
or the group about
what might we glean from
these two in this scene and what's new
about this morning? I mean, obviously, besides the things that are happening
with it. Dawn. But what. What could we
potentially explore that might be

(10:24):
new in their relationship?

Well, you know, I, I can say that
like most servants who have,
served houses for a long period of
time, there's nothing that they don't
know.

Yeah.

In spite of their
appearance of indifference or
you know, withholding. but they know everything. They all.
They know what's happening in the house. And
you know,
sorry, this phone's gone off.
But and certainly knows about Lord Byron and

(11:10):
and the disruption that he brings.
sorry, I'm gonna.

Apparently, apparently Lady Crim is able to call you even
while she's here. On a,
servant's life is now confusion.
I love that you're like, you know, I know everything going on and then the
bells are ringing like down navy, you know, like you can't. You can't get
a break.

Right. So, you know, there's that and
Septimus is, you know, I, I
think, you know, I, I read this and
I, I thought of Creature in Harry,
Potter. You know, the,
Oh, you know, the Beatrice Lestrange. And,
You know, that. That household of. Of,

(11:55):
You know, that. That mutters in,
you know, as he's leaving about the. The house and
everybody in it and what losers they are and, you
know, not really aristocrats. And, you know, I
should be working in a much bigger house with much more
prominent, you know, people.
You know, I don't know if that's the case with him. I think

(12:15):
he's probably pretty happy with where he's at, but
there's just a. You know, I mean, and there's also a
kind of pride in, you know,
his ability to serve and know what people
need ahead of time. Like a good stage
manager.

Yeah. Yeah.

So,
But there's a. There's a kind of, you know,
you.

Know.

Just an awareness of what's going on all
the time, everywhere.

Right. Well, I wonder about the taking your stage management
idea. I mean, to me, what
I've. What I've noticed is
that stage managers, in my experience,
choose very selectively who
they spill the tea with. Right.
and I. So I think there. To me, there's something interesting
and juicy about you sharing more than you

(13:07):
need to with Septimus,
which leads me to think that like. Like there aren't. There's
not a lot of people that Jelly be. Wants to or needs
to, you know, share. I think this scene could have
been half as long. You know what I mean? But I. I wonder
if there's something fun about the
transaction.

Yeah.

And. Yeah. And the fact that, like, you get to share the
gossip and the tea and that. That maybe
Septimus. Because also, like you, Septimus is a
hired gun. Right. So you
share that. Neither of you are part of the
family, and he's been here now
for a while. And I get the sense that.
I don't get the sense that you're. That you've, given him a cold

(13:48):
shoulder or somehow he seems to be on the right side of
Jellyby, I guess, is what I'm saying, and that maybe
he could be rewarded with some. There's this, you know,
and even that little fun exchange about the coin, I think
is really fun because that sense of, Right. The way
you dangle that, and he picks up on the cue,
and right.

Away it's half a guinea.
That's not an insignificant amount of money,
actually.

Yeah.

Pretty, you know.

Right.

Rich. So.

Yeah. Which I think is. And I think,
too, Chris on a tutor's Salary
that to me shows the level of stakes of how much you
want to know. That giving him that
much money. And I think Jamie, maybe
it's on you to help the audience clock
how much that is to both of you.

(14:38):
Right. You're right. And that then
we can really understand like wow, he really stuck his neck
out. So I think Chris, then there's, it's not just funny,
it's actually a little bit maybe more desperate of seriously,
Half guinea? Really? Yeah. I mean
that's a lot of money I just gave you, dude. You know,
can I, can I get something a kind of something

(15:00):
big and, and then it comes. Right. And then,
and there's a, it probably would have been more if she hadn't come in.

Right.

But I, I, I like that he, that Jelby
puts that out there, that opens the door and you know
exactly what the cue is, Chris. But I think the surprise
can be. I'll tip you.
You know more than zero would have been great. Right. Because
Byron gave him zero. So you have a low bar to
cross. But you went way over with that half

(15:28):
guinea. And I, I
mean that's, that to me is kind of interesting. Right?
The fact that you in a,
in the urgency of the moment want, you know, spend that
to get information.

Yeah,
yeah, agreed. I
think it also in my
head it also says something about what
transpired overnight and where
Septimus is in terms
of
this transformative near death experience as we

(16:04):
talked about last week, that, that he's
not, not exactly himself either. You know,
he's, he's in this new frame of
mind or you know, he's had this bracing
experience. Take
here's 20 bucks. What can I get?

Yeah, yeah, right. I love that
it goes along what we were saying earlier last week with you and,
and, and Jennifer about like what have I
got to lose? Right. I mean it's, in a way it's only
money. That's not what matters right now. Yeah, it's
it. And I like and you know, and Stopper loves these
double entendres. right. The, or these double meaning of what
if we hear the pistol shot, we're waiting to

(16:44):
see is he alive, is he dead.
Right. And, and then when you
come in and you say what a bracing experience, I think we're
meant to think the duel. Right.
And I, and I love that you immediately say
it's the dawn. It's, it's,
it's nature. It's like it

(17:04):
and you know, and I think it's Interesting. And a great
foreshadowing of. You're going to become the hermit of Sidley Park.

Yeah.

Spending all your time in nature.
Only in nature.

I imagine that he's. Septimus is not someone who's shot a lot
of things either. Could also
be that he. Like that shot, is that he just shot
the rabbit. And that is also a racing experience,
too.

Yes, absolutely. Well. And that you took a
life.

For Thomasina, I think.

Yeah, right. For Thomasina. And I love that, Chris, that
you're out of your comfort zone and really are. You're not someone
who takes a life of any kind, of any
animal easily. And you didn't want to go
into the duel, but you're doing it. And
then. And then he didn't. Right. Just so I'm clear on the
backstory, so you went out there, right. You were supposed to
have pistols at dawn. You decided to stay overnight

(17:56):
in the gatehouse. Why? You
could have just come from the house at dawn. What?
Why did you decide to spend the night out there?

Man, that's a great question that I wish I'd given more thought to before you asked
me.

well, Good thing we're in rehearsal.

Yeah, exactly.
I think. I think it's tied to the
letter that he left for the lady. You know,
like this confession of his
feelings to someone he never really
should confess that sort of thing to
and then

(18:35):
has to get out. Like, I've done this thing. I can't
really stay in this room, in this place.
I'm going to move on to the next thing, which,
in writing the letter, there's a good assumption that I'm not going to walk
away from it or I wouldn't have done that. So.

Yes. Yes. So. So it's
either way. Yeah. You're. You're out of the picture,
either by death or. It's also
a great way to avoid seeing what effect it
has on her in the moment, because there's a very different
experience. Right. Jennifer, of like, here's my letter
to you. Right. We see both versions in Jane

(19:10):
Austen. Right. Those who receive a letter and
can process it emotionally on their own, and then
those who are given a message and the person standing
there in the room. Right. I mean,
I'm just adding to what you're saying, Chris, but, like, it's interesting and
Septimus is character when it comes to
these matters of the heart. He
can take on carnal knowledge. As

(19:32):
scary as it is with Thomasina, that's
daunting. But what's more daunting is the letter of
your feelings. So you're like, I'm gonna place that. I'm either gonna
peace out permanently or at least peace out temporarily while
you, read it, digest
it. Do you know what I mean? And so even if I do survive,
you've already had a chance to look at it.

I'd say that the carnal
knowledge is a very
dry description, right. There's no
emotional content to it. You take the penis, you put it
in. Whereas this, as a confession of
love, is a whole other matter. M. But if
Septimus had not gone outside and spent the

(20:11):
night, she would not have found
the letter in the room. She would have come in and found Tim, and he could have
been like, oh, hi. You know,
so learning that she came into the room looking for him while
he was outside, there's also a bit of like, oh,
that might have been a miscalculation if I
didn't want her to see it while I was living. Because now I know she's.

(20:32):
She must have seen it in my room because I left it for her to see
if I didn't return, which I didn't last night.
But now I've returned and now she's seen it and
fuck. You know, or.

>> Téa Guarino (20:43):
Or.

Or maybe yay. Or whatever. Whatever the.

Right. It could. It could go either way.
But. But you're in that state of uncertainty, right? Like
Schrodinger's cat, right? You're in that states of,
like, where
is this tragedy or triumph? And you. And you. You
don't. Adding to your, you know,
bracing experience.

But. But I. I feel like he would not
have left it if there was any
chance of her seeing it while he was still
alive. Like, I don't. I don't think he
maybe thought that far ahead of, What happens if she
finds it? Because I'm out here, like, either
I'm dead and she's read it, or I'm alive and

(21:27):
I can tear it up because she hasn't seen me yet.

Right? Right. Which would hopefully be the case, right.
Because if she's a. You don't expect her to be awake at
dawn, right? So I think that's a great point.
Right, so you have. If the cheater didn't explode,
right? If all that stuff didn't happen, right. You could have
been. She would have been none the wiser. I love that. And
that you could have actually then thrown that into the fire

(21:51):
and then, you know, nothing would have changed. You
would have pined like Gatsby, never seeing.
Never meeting Daisy and Right,
but the big, the one of the
big blow ups is, oh, she has seen it
and now she's here and we have to deal with
that. Or we're choosing to deal with it. But I, I

(22:11):
love that. All of that sense of you being out there and really not
thinking that there's maybe a good chance you were going to live
to tell the tale. So you take yourself
out of, the house and
therefore you miss all of the, the
chaos that goes on.
and the fact

(22:32):
that also in the beginning you say, Chris, I was expecting,
I was expecting to be locked out. What time is
it? So
Jellyby. Jamie. You see,
right, you, you come into the room
with your lamp and
then you see him outside.

(22:53):
Why are you even in the room? Are, are we
starting the day or are we. Or what? What, What? Are you
looking for him or.
You're muted.

I thought. Yes, he was starting the
day. I think it's the beginning of the day. it starts
early anyway, you know.

So that for all the servants. Right.

And what's his name? Left an hour before. So
he's.

Oh, Byron.

Yeah.

He's had.

Right.

Oh, right, yeah.

Right.

Yeah. So you've never been to
bed?

Well, yes. No. Ah, not the
first time.

Right.

You know what I mean? I mean it's kind of like whatever the house needs is
whatever I'm there for whenever, you know.

Right.

I mean it's not, you know, it's. It is that thing. I mean,
it's nobody, nobody, nobody knows
what's happening more than I do.

Yeah. But I, and, but I think along with that, Jamie, I think
there could be something fun of. When you say the house is up and
hopping. What if, what if this is
unusually hopping?

Oh, hopping. Unusually hopping. 4am or
5am in the morning.

Right, right. Yeah. This, there's. This is. It's an
understatement, I think.

What.

You know, I mean, and so that, that way, Chris, there's a difference
between like, oh, we're interpreting. Oh, yeah. There's been a little
excitement. And the more he unpacks, I
think there's some fun. Chris, in. Wait. What else went
on? Wait, how much is
what.

Yeah, I mean, a lot has gone on.
A lot of people left. Lady croom's been sneaking
around or looking around. There's a lot going on for
five.

Yeah. The house has been up and hopping.

Yeah.

Means that it's, it hasn't stopped.

It's been.

It's not a new thing. It's something that
has Been going on.

Yes.

Yeah.

The,
You were missed, Mr. Hodge, again, is an understatement. I think
that I wonder, Jenny,
is there some more you can. What if we lean into that
of like that is. There's so much behind what I'm
telling you of like you don't understand how
much you should have been here.

(25:10):
And you know, and I think, Chris, in your innocence, there's a sense.
Oh, that's nice. Of people. I was missed.
Right. And Jeremy's like, no, you don't understand.

You were missed at volume,
right?

Yes, exactly. At volume.

At volume.

And Captain Bryce's carriage with Mr. Mrs.
Chaytor also.

Yeah.

And this is pretty rare for septimists to see an exclamation point
question mark. I just want to flag that
because that's pretty. I, would encourage you,
Chris, See what happens next time of just letting
him. Letting the flabbergast
station come
out even more.
The bigger the rugs we can pull out, the better.

(25:59):
And then on top of that, we have Lord Byron, right?

And everybody, everybody, the entire retinue
is.

A lot going on in that house.

And then I love your first question is, what am I going to do with these
guns? Which is
interesting. You know, like it's. It's like it. You don't
want these guns, so you
borrowed these guns of his for the
duel from Byron? Is that the idea?

Yeah, yeah.

That's fascinating.

I certainly don't have any guns.

Right. I love that. And you don't want them. I love
that. You're like, well, he should have at least stuck around to collect his
firearms because I don't want
these anymore. So it's kind of great to tell us that about
Septimus. I'm realizing.
Right. And I love that. By
whom? By her leadership in my room.
And that's kind of Chris, I think that's, you know, potentially

(26:51):
exciting. Potentially scary. She went to your
room. I don't think she's ever been to your. Does she know where my room
is? You know, there's. And
then before you can even get any more from
information from Jellyby, he's about to leave.
Right. I. I kind of. I think that's really smart of you,
Jamie, to be like, I'm not going to say anything more A

(27:13):
without a tip or B without Lady Kruhn present
because now it's about to get right. You already said a certain
amount. And now of course, Satan is going to want. Is going to want to
know more details.

Yes. Yeah.

I do think that that in my room
is like, I left that letter
to be found. If she went in my
room, she found it. I think Septimus
clocks that instantly.

Yeah. Ah, that's great shit. You know. Yeah.
Which I love. And that Jellyby is going right over.
You know, there are things Jellabee knows that you don't and, and vice
versa. So I love that, Chris,
that if you're freaking out and Delby has no idea
why, what's the big deal? Right? About
like. Well, it's a very big deal and we're going to find out why.

maybe qualify my earlier statement that
Jellyby thinks he knows more about what's going
on.

Yeah, I think that's, that's fun, Jamie, right? When there's like, well
why. What is, what am I missing? Right? Yeah. What's
the. And that could help prompt you decide to go
and get. Maybe I should go. I should go get Lady Croom.
You know, there's, there's, there are things happening
here I'm not fully aware of.
And then we have this beat about the book. Right,

(28:32):
Chris, that.
You, we. And this is the book that gets referenced by the
academics. Right?

This is the, the, the, the the poetry.
It's the, it's Croom's
poem that he thinks he's written.

Yeah. So
he didn't, he didn't leave the book. And then we have the coin.
I would, I'm sure he would have left a coin if he had had one.
Then we get the half guinea,
you know. Thank you very much. What has occurred? The servants
are told nothing, sir. I love that way,
Jamie. You get to be impressed by the size of the

(29:08):
money. But then you first give him that first party
line. Right? I love that
that you're the. He has to jump over that one
little hoop like, you know, the
standard response is we, of course
we know nothing. Right? That's what we, that's why we stay
employed. And then I love that Chris is like, come
on. Yeah. And then you phone.

I just gave you half a guinea.

Come on. Right.

This isn't the first time I imagine that
Septimus has bought information from Jellyby
either. Like m. Yeah, but this is a dance.

Maybe not, not to this amount. You know what I mean? There's
a. I, I, that's, I, I, I think that's,
I love that. And then, and then
immediately Jamie, you, you give up some
information. I love that, you know, you, you
encounter Mrs. Cher during the night. And now we start.
We have to get this geography right of the. This is

(30:03):
like the game of Clue. Right. Which
room? Where are people?
So, and, and Jennifer, help me with this
too. So you, last night
while Shader and Bryce were
drinking. Right?

Yeah. Decided to discuss poetry with Lord
Byron in the middle of the night.

And, and you, you were about to
go discuss poetry with Lord Byron
when the door opens and there's Mrs. Chater coming out. Mrs.
Chaytor's coming out, having already discussed
poetry.

Yes. Having had a thorough discussion of poetry.

Right. And then what do you imagine happened at that moment,
Jennifer?

Well, I think screaming must have occurred because
of what we discover later.
I believe I probably began, the
screaming. but
also in that,
Mrs. Chater's carnal, embrace with
Septimus is also
discovered because I think that's why I'm

(31:06):
headed to Septimus room.

So, so how does it get discovered that he hooked up
with Chaytor?

I mean, I think that's part of the screaming match.
You know, probably along the lines of, I'm going to tell your
husband about
your passion for poetry,
et cetera, you know, and then somewhere in that.

Discussion, all the dirty laundry comes,
all.

The dirty laundry gets aired. Because I think that's
what sends Lady Croom to
Septimus Room where she finds
the letters. And it just occurred to me, if that's the case,
she's got the letters, she obviously, she's kicked
everyone out.
It, sounds like my husband slept entirely through it.

(31:52):
Good man.

I love that.

But I've, I've shuffled off Byron,
I've shuffled off my brother and the
cheaters. All of the arrangements have
been made. I have read the letters and it occurs
to me I'm coming into this room. I hadn't thought about it
before, but if she hears the gunshot.
And she happens to know

(32:15):
that Shader is in
a carriage.

Hm.

Leaving. And so is Byron.
So the only one with guns right now and who wrote me a
farewell letter is Septimus.

Oh. So you could think that perhaps
Septimus.

It just occurred to me because I was like, does she hear it
or what is she, you know, why is she coming into this room?

I love that. And that that really puts the stakes really high
for you. And the vulnerability of, did Septimus do something
with a gun out?

Did he do something rash?

Yes. Oh, that's, that's great.

I'm wondering, I mean, like it hadn't occurred to me
just before reading it this time, but I was like,
if she, did she hear that? And then, hence why she
would ask about the hair when she
enters. Because if she's seen a dead
hair, it's like, Ah, great. Gave me a heart
attack to shoot a hair.

Right. So you're using. You can still process. Be
processing your shock and it's not
over. But I love that you're trying to use.
Use your wit to. Yeah.

And there's the propriety of Jellyby's existence in the
room.
Even with all the dirty laundry. We're supposed to
pretend that there's decorum.

Yes, Yes,
I do believe.

Some sense of decorum. Shall we?

And the look you give him, I love that also. It's like both of you,
everyone's sort of over all the decorum. Right. So even when he, when
he says a rabbit, I. I think it's great of
like. Really? Yeah. Are we gonna do that? No,
no, I'm not gonna. You're right. Now is not the time to
get into this.

Semantics. We're doing semantics.

Right. And I love you want
to have it both ways, Chris. No, no, I will give you that as a hair. I
will say it's very rabid.

Like, I mean, it is.

And that's, that's when your cue, Jamie, is to go. Okay, I'm
gonna go. you know, they, they, they don't. They,
they don't. They don't need me. But I think you wanting your
infusion too here means.
I mean, tell me what you think, Jennifer. But I feel like first of all,
as you're. If you're getting over your nerves still. Right. The shock of what
happened, and you need that to calm down. But it also

(34:34):
implies to me that we're. You're. We're going to
be here for a moment. Right.

I'd like to discuss these young man.

Right. So. So I feel like Chris, you know, like
the fact that she orders her infusion to be brought to.
Into the room.

Yes.

to me there's a sign of where. Make
yourself comfortable.
Mm.
And then once at the moment Jo be
leaves, I think there's something fun. Jennifer, can we
explore this sense of. There's a certain amount of still
decorum while Jelly's there. And the moment he
leaves, you can go right for him. Right. Go right for

(35:12):
the jugular on. How dare you.
Great. And that way that allows
Chris and Septimus to be kind of thrown off balance
again. You know, he thought we might sort
of slowly on ramp into a genteel
discussion. But I
think, I think you're taking the initiative is a way to throw him off balance.
Right. To get.

Not this much adrenaline running in me. So,

Exactly.
Can, can we, can we try that from right before you come in?
how about. I'm, halfway down on 72. Jellyby. Her
Ladyship encountered Mrs. M. Chater during the night.
Is he ramping?

Yes.
Her ladyship encountered Mrs. Chaytor, during
the night.

Where?

Oh, on the threshold of Lord Byron's
room.

Ah. Which one was leaving?

In which entering Mrs. Chaytor was leaving
Lord Byron's room.

Where was Mr. Chaytor?

Mr. Chaytor and Captain Bryce
were drinking cherry brandy. They had a
footman to keep the fire up
until 3:00.
There was a loud altercation upstairs and,

Well, Mr.
Hodge.

My lady.

All this to shoot a hare?

Rabbits.
No, indeed.

A hare, though.

Very rabbit.

Like my infusion?

Yes. My lady.

How dare you.

I cannot be called into account for what was written in private
and read without regard to priority, addressed
to me, left in my room in the event
of my death.

What earthly use is a love letter from Briond
grave?

As much, surely, as from this side of it.
The second letter.

Let me hold here for a second. I just want to see what happens
one more time. This time from the Mayan fusion. And,
what struck me, I think, just now was I want to see what
happens. Chris. If you. What if you. If she's going to go there,
you. You meet her at the net, Play the net, tennis
wise with her.

Okay?

Because I think, what if the gloves are off for both of you?
That's really intense for both of you. When you say as much,
surely, as from this side of it, it's like,
you know. Okay, take that. Sure.
Okay, so how about from just my infusion?

My infusion?

Yes, milady.

How dare you.

I cannot be called into account for what was written in private and
read without regard to propriety, addressed
to me, left in my room in the
event of my death.

What earthly use is a love letter from, beyond the
grave?

As much, surely, as from this side of it. The
second letter, however, was not addressed to your ladyship.

I have a mother's right to open a letter addressed to you,
addressed, by you. To my daughter. Whether in the event of your
life, your death or your imbecility.
What do you mean by writing to her
rice pudding when she has just suffered the
shock of a violent death in our midst.

Whose death?

Yours, you wretch.

yes, I see.

I do not know. Which is the matter of your ravings.
One envelope full of Rice
pudding. And the other of the
most insolent
familiarities regarding several
parts of my body. But I have no doubt
which is the more intolerable to me
which. Oh, aren't we saucy

(38:51):
when our bags are packed?
Your friend has gone before you and I have despatched the
harlot Chater and her husband and
also my brother for bringing them here. Such is the
sentence, you see, for choosing unwisely in
your acquaintance.
Banishment. Lord Byron
is a rake and a hypocrite. And the sooner

(39:13):
he sails for the Levant, the sooner he will find a
society congenial to his
character.

It has been a night of reckoning
indeed.

I wish it had passed uneventfully with you and Mr.
Chater shooting each other with the
decorum due to a civilized house.
You have no secrets left, Mr. Hodge. They
spilled out between shrieks and oaths and
tears. It is fortunate the lifetime's
devotion of the sporting gun has halved my husband's
hearing to the air he sleeps on.

I'm afraid I have no knowledge of what has occurred.

Your Trollope was discovered in
Lord Byron's room.

Ah. discovered by Mr. M.
Chaytor.

Who else?

I'm very sorry, madam, for having used your kindness
to bring my unworthy friend to your
notice. He will have to give an account of himself
to me, you may be sure.

Great. can we just hold there for a second?
So that's great. That's great, folks. Let's talk
about what happened there
with the two of you. I think there's something juicy.
When the gloves came off and you both just kind of
went for it in a way that's been kind of pent
up, this moment of. What

(40:35):
struck me for both of you is when you said, it's been a night of
reckoning. What jumped out at me was
you've been watching her and everyone
fawn over Byron, right? It's like the
cult of Byron. And what I heard this time,
Chris, was, wow,
finally people can see
the bullshit artist. Finally.

(40:58):
You know, even if you and her never hook up, it's
like that alone is satisfying,
right? The fact that, yes, send him off to the Levant,
good. But I, but you can't believe it because 12 hours ago he
could do no wrong, Right? Right. And everyone was
fawning. So I think it's fascinating to hear how
extreme she's been. It's like kicking him to the curb and he's a

(41:19):
piece of trash. And so I, I, I just think there's
something fun you could Explore more Chris. Of like,
I like these epiphanies we're having,
you know. Does that make sense to you, Jen?

Oh yeah.

It's the fact that like when she turns man,
it's like, like I had,
I, I don't. I never liked him.
I think he's a raking hypocrite. Like there's not even like
any, any reference to, you know, he had good, good
parts.

No, no, he didn't anymore.

In retrospect,
we've revised history, you know, so what, what,
what, what, what jumped out of the two of you? That. For that, that chunk
which I think is so ra.

Well, she's got, she's. I think she's still got a
whole bunch of anger and needs an
outlet. I'm still mad and I've sent
everyone away that I can.

Yes.

And my husband's still asleep.

Yes.

Well, so I'm going to find Septimus.

And not just anger, but also libido.
there's a lot of pent up
energy that's part rage and part
like. And horniness. You
were on the cusp of hooking
up with Byron. Right. And
now everyone is gone, but you are not

(42:45):
satisfied.

And I think there's this extra level of,
I don't think Lady Croom at this point has considered
her interest in Septimus. But
if this cheater woman
was with both Byron and
Septimus, we very dislike
her.

(43:08):
Very dislike. And it, you know, like. And then conflicted because
I find this letter seemingly to Lady Croom out
of nowhere from Septimus. So that's a,
that's a lot of information.
but I feel like I can hold him responsible for Lord Byron
and being in my house. And so I shall.

Yes. Yeah. And I love that. And the section about
the letter too. What? I love that. As you're
exploring Jen, both verbally and physically, it's
starting off as a weapon and then becoming the fan
and the sense of needing to cool down. And I think there's an opportunity.
You can even see what happens if you let.
Is there a moment of, of more of
the desire popping through before she

(43:48):
shuts it down? Because I think it's helpful.

I think at least in my imagination. He's a very good
writer.

Yeah.

Septimus.

And isn't that part of the point of this play is writing is
an erogenous zone?

Yeah.

words are an aphrodisiac. And I think it
maybe is that help you turn your focus
on him in a new way? Because that's also why
you love. I mean, yes, Byron's handsome and he's, you know,
he's roguish but also he can write like freaking
nobody's business. So there what I love is people.
I mean it's not, that's not Mrs. Chater's

(44:24):
M.O. but it seems like it's yours.
So the fact that you read this letter now of like,
oh well, now I have to think of you in a different way
because if you can write like that, what else can
you do?

I was also curious just this is very
nerdy but Jen,
which of the letters she opened first?
Do you know? Would she normally have opened a
letter to her daughter?
But considering the content of the evening.

(45:00):
But if she opened the letter to herself, to
Lady Croom first and knows the contents
of that.

Yeah.

Then yes, you're going to tear the heck open it. What the heck is he
writing? To my young. If this
is what you wrote to me, what have you written
to my young daughter? Yes.

And then I love that you're oven. And then you run right into rice.

Pudding and then it's rice pudding. That's like what is
happening with this man?

Yes. You know, and and, and how dare you
be so callous. So then your new problem is. Well,
if it wasn't sexual, then you're discussing rice pudding at a time
when she should be in mourning.

Yes.

So that doesn't show a lot of maturity
on your part. One way or the other you
have, you are, you are violating my daughter.
But in, but in the case of the rice pudding, it feels
very, you know,
shocking for you to do that to her. And I,
and I love the. Chris, it feels like you're half step behind of like wait,
did someone die and I'm not aware of.

(45:58):
Yeah, no, it's your death.
You keep up.

But I didn't die. Yeah, I, I think that
that point of, of which letter did she read first?
It's interesting to think if she read the rice pudding one
first and that was like, well what's
in it? Oh my God. Like it's a whole
other. Oh my God.

Yeah, it's just interesting to see
like how her evening has played out.

Yes.

That's a roller coaster.

I'm curious if
did she go to Byron's room of her own
accord.

Or.

How do you mean?

Was she invited to Byron's room by
him?

Oh, I see. Or did she take the initiative?

You know, as the lady of the house, I have certain
sure I can go wherever I want. It's my house.
So I'm going to go here and. And is met
by the by the trolley or was
interesting some sort of invitation and
went and still finds this other woman
coming out.

Yeah, that's. I mean I'm
inclined to guess invitation because
of the way she says he's. He's a rake
and a hypocrite. The hypocrite
makes me think it was by invitation.

Yeah.

What do you think Jeff? I'm frankly of the other camp that
she goes on her own and that's
why they run into. I think Byron might have arranged things a little
better if he knew they were.

Oh I actually assumed that lady, Mrs.
Chaytor took her own initiative.

See that's what I thought. I, I thought that was my
answer. That he had always planned to meet with Eddy Croom. But, but, but
the Jader pointed in so to speak.

and this is, you know, not to
Interfere in anybody else's character development but.

No, please.

It makes, it makes Lady Croom
if, if she's the one who's even more been made
the fool of because she went on her own
initiative and this other woman is coming out.
It seems that that might help with the altercation that everybody
hears throughout the house. I don't know.

Right. Right. Well there go either way.

It's just. That's the way I feel it. Yeah.

But, but, but either way I think it helps
Yujin feeling. Feeling embarrassed.
Right. And that's not something you're used to feeling
like up until this the whole play we've always seen
her. She can handle landscapers, she can
handle music teachers. Byron
everybody. Right. And so this is the first time we watched her
with egg on her face and feeling so

(48:43):
Vulnerable and
humiliated. Yes, in a way. And
though you have by course correcting by banishing everyone from the
Garden of Eden. Right. Like
you basically saying this did not happen,
this will never be spoken of. And we. But,
but, but it's because you put yourself out there.

(49:04):
One way or the other. And the
fact that now you're still. That's only an hour ago.

Yeah.

Dr. K, did you have any thought on what we're
chatting here?

>> Dr. Kate Moncrief (49:18):
Well I, I've been mentally going down the rabbit hole
still on money. Thinking about that half K
and how much it's worth.
And what he's trying to get
with that amount of money. So Brendan, you mentioned that it's a lot of
money, but in 1809 the
salary of a tutor or A governess would have been about

(49:38):
£25 and a half. Guinea is about a half
a pound. So for Septimus it's like a week's
salary. So like
that's a lot of money. What is he trying to get in that
minute? And like he doesn't, like,
he gets a little bit of information before Lady
Croom comes and interrupts. So I'm
wondering for Septimus, I'm thinking about like

(50:01):
what his event is, what's happening for him with that money and
with Jellyby and then how it's interrupted
by Lady Croom and he's basically
spent a ton of money to get
very little information. And does that
affect the energy in the room?

Well, and the fact that I think along with that cape
it. When I'm looking back at that exchange,
Chris, I keep coming back to what am I to do with
these rabbit pistols? And
Jamie, you don't answer that. You go straight
to. You were looked for in your room. By whom? By her
ladyship. In my room. Here's

(50:38):
some money. Essentially.
I can see why you'd want to pay some money to get like. Well,
wait, wait, wait. Tell me more about her going to my room.
Because that that to me is like you were saying, Kate, something has to prompt
him to spend a week's salary. And it feels like the only
thing that's particularly juicy that happens
five lines earlier is Lady

(51:00):
Croom looked for you in your room in the
middle of the night.

Well, I, I actually, the next thing I ask
about is the book.

Right.
But that, that's true though. I don't, I, I guess what I'm struggling with is
like, why would you. That the,
the what, what, what would, what's the bribe for
Jelloby about? You know.

Well, I'm wondering, did I, did I put something in the. Is I,
I can't remember off the top if I, if I've put
anything in the book.

I think the challenges are in the book.
Right? Oh, the written
challenges.

Yes, yes, yes,
that's true.
So you, you, you could be wanting them to, to
track. To get hold of those too.
Yeah,
the,
and the fact. And when you, when he talks about

(51:57):
the, like back on 23, I have no doubt which is
more intolerable to me. And I think that was great, Chris, of
leaning in on the witch, of like
actively sort of goading her, you know, like.
Well, I mean. Well, if you're going to bring that up,
tell me, tell me once and for all, which
is more intolerable. And she doesn't answer

(52:17):
you, you know,
but, but I. But I think what's fascinating is to me,
I wonder, as I'm watching this Chris and
Jen, I think he's acting
in a more saucy way than Avery has. He's
acting Byronic. He's kind
of pushing things

(52:37):
in a way I feel like Chris, Septimus never has. You've
been really good. You've behaved yourself well. You've
stuck to the rules of the game. And tonight
is a different Septimus.

I don't have anything to lose
anymore. I assume I'm
out. I have to go.
What? I. I've no. I have no reason to
be careful. Which sort of makes me like Byron,
who is just uncareful anyway.

Right, Right.
Well, Jeff. Jeff, I see you wanting to say something.
You're muted.
Still muted.

Just talking to myself here. I'm just nodding
in. In agreement to how everything,
you know, everything can be possible. You know, all these
different things can be.

Yeah, possible.
it's great to see these two, Septimus's theme side by side, because
I feel like as challenging and as
exciting as Septimus is in the first scene with. With Thomasina,
as I'm watching the scene between you two, this feels like. Like
a man with nothing to lose. And the fact that here's a woman who
is seeing. You've already seen him write

(53:53):
something. You've witnessed this writing, Jen, and now
he's somebody who is being pretty bold
with you. Right? Aren't we saucy? And I don't know if you've ever
associated that word with Septimus before.
So like a week ago we talked about wonder.
Right? So could part of the wonder be the two of you and
you looking at him in this new way of.

(54:14):
So wait, who this is Septimus 2.0.
Who is this? Now?

Again, this is, you know, so much of the play is
this. It's, you know, it's
heart and gut. I mean, you know, head and
gut. So we're getting a lot of his
head in the first scene and how clever he is and how much he
knows, you know, all that.
It's wonderfully witty that way. And this one
seems more sort of groin oriented for both

(54:43):
of them, you know? And, this is the love that
hurts when he says, oh, no, you know,
sex, is much nicer than love. It's much
easier. It does not. Doesn't hurt so much.

Yeah, well. And
again, how do you.

Because he is saucy. He's a little.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that sense
of, being a little braver.
It's interesting to me, Jen, when you say, aren't we saucy when our bags
are packed and then how do you get from there to. Your friend has
gone before you. Can you help me
with that?

yeah. So he is being
saucy and he, he
should be under the assumption that he is going to be
fired. So
when you're, when your bags are packed, because this is
behavior that would get you kicked
out. and so I am informing

(55:41):
him that you will, you will be following. We are
all, you are all fired.
Like everybody out.
So that's, I mean that's where I'm going with like the
Oh, you're flirting with me as you pack your
bags by. Because I got rid of
him and, and even kicked my brother

(56:02):
out. I killed my brother
for his poor company. So you're going to.

But to add to that, you say Lord
Byron, such as descendants for choosing unwisely in
your acquaintance management.
What could some of this be? You. You
are going to ask him to choose?

It could be. Although I would say like
to me the double is your, your poor judgment
in Byron, but also your poor
judgment and Mrs. Hater Chater.

Right. So.

So we like in this case, it's both
like you chose
unwisely.

Right.

On both counts. Bye.

Well, but that's what, that's what I think is interesting is that you
haven't yet said bye. You are, you are laying
the groundwork to say goodbye. But I like that you're
saying here's. You're sort of. It's like the game show, right? The
lady or the tiger. You're pulling this curtain back and going, okay,
so if one
chooses Chador and Byron,
one will be banished.

Yes.

Explain, you know. Oh yeah, you
have, you have 30 seconds.

Oh yes. No, I think she would very much like an argument
on the subject.

Yeah, yeah.

I think she would like to be talked out of it.

Yes.

Yeah, I think that's what I'm. Yes, exactly.

Yes, yes, yes is
it gives me a reason to let you stay.

Yeah. To let you stay. And because you know he could
easily defend Byron. Right. Lord Byron is a rake and
hypocrite. The sooner he sails for the land more
congenial to his character and you're
baiting him. You know, there's mostly good friends,
so it makes sense to see Septimus go. My
lady, I think that is unfair. I
think you've been extreme. I will not take my leave.

(57:52):
Right. Because I think you're purposely putting down red meat
to see. All right, I pretty much called
him all. Every name in the book.
Are you going to agree with me or are you going
to defend your hypocrite friend?
And he hasn't yet. He hasn't given
you his decision. You know, he gives you the. It's been

(58:14):
a night of reckoning, but the clock is still running. Right.
He hasn't actually. Like you're still waiting.
So are you pro or anti Byron and pro and
anti Chader. Mm.
And then. And then I love the next page. You push
further. You have no secrets left, Mr.
Hodge. I mean that's. It can't be.

(58:35):
This is the most blatant we've been in some ways the whole play. They
spilled out between shrieks and oaths and
tears.
Thank God my. My husband
didn't hear any of this or you wouldn't. You might not
be alive right now, but it's. It's
another provocation, I think too. Right. You have no secrets left.

(58:56):
So are we. Are we going
to stay on? We're going to be truthful.

Right. Right. Which I think is
also letting him know I also know about you and Mrs.
Jader.

Yes.

Bluntly, yes. So in that
like that is also now revealed.

Right. And. And your response, Chris, is.
I have no knowledge, I'm afraid I have no knowledge of what. What has occurred.
Which is not true. Right.
Because courtesy of Jellyby, you know a little bit of what's
occurred.

I have no first hand knowledge.

Exactly. I was outside.
Right. And. And so then you. And I
love that your Trollope, she's not a name anymore. I love that
it's. And not the Trollop. Your
Trollop.

Yes.

Was discovered in Lord Byron's room.
ah. discovered by Mr. Cheater. So I love Chris.
Now, knowing what you know from Jellyby,
you're going to hold her feet to the fire and say, so
are you going to be truthful?
Yeah. And I love that you guys answer a question with a question.
M. Who else would you do? You want to

(01:00:09):
volunteer a name?
Because you. You know what will happen if you do.
And. And then I think this is so beautiful, Jen. Is
that. Then finally, Chris, you choose
what side. Right. I'm very sorry, madam, for having met. Use
your kindness to be my unworthy friend. To your notice.

(01:00:30):
He will have to give an account of himself to me, you may be sure
that's. What do you think? That seems to be moving the needle
in the right direction. Right, Jen?

>> Jennifer Le Blanc (01:00:38):
Well, it's Interesting. I'm reading the next stage direction
which says, before Lady Croom can respond
to this threat.

>> Brendon Fox (01:00:48):
Yeah.

So I think there is an implied threat to
that,
if I'm understanding it correctly. And I would love to hear other
thoughts on it, because what I interpret as the threat
is, well, Lord Byron has a sort of, a side of the
story too. He's my friend. I could ask him
what happened.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:08):
Oh, no.

>> James Newcomb (01:01:09):
Oh, no.

>> Chris Guilmet (01:01:09):
I feel like.

Okay, great.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:11):
That's.

>> Geoffrey Wade (01:01:12):
That's not what that means.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:14):
What do you. What do you think, Jeff?

Well, it seems to me, what I know of the language at that time, when he
says he'll have to answer to me, that means
I'll. I'll kill him. I'll challenge him.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:24):
All the, all the.

>> Dr. Kate Moncrief (01:01:26):
So it's the threat that's a challenge.

For a duel is to pirate. He's basically.
It's like, you know, okay, you know, this is kill,
Kill Claudio. Okay, I'll do it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:37):
Great. Yeah.

Well, that's fun.

That's what I think.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:41):
Yes.

But the language, he'll have to answer to me is a.
Is a challenge to it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:45):
Yeah.

Okay.

Which has a very extreme response, too.
Like that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:01:50):
That.

That's kind of a,
Comes a bit out of nowhere from, from
the exchange that's just happened between us. Like,
I'm going from, you know, we're going to. I'm afraid I have
no knowledge of this. To. I'm actually, I'm actually.
Yeah, I'm really sorry about that. I'm gonna kill the motherfucker
for that.

I, I, I think it's a. Yeah, I think it's a sign of.
He's making his. She said, choose
wisely. M. And I think. And he said,
my choice.

Yeah.

My choice.

I will kill.

I will kill my friend for you.

>> Brendon Fox (01:02:22):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Which raises everything up so that we have this
whole, the whole rest of this. I mean, there's a lot of scene to go
still, but it's like a.

Series of impulsive
impulsivity, you know?

Yeah.

Rose, these things. I'm starting with the half crown or
half guinea, you know that it's
like, it's nothing like you
said before, Jeff. It's coming from the groin. It's not coming from
the, the head. You know, it's. There's no
rationality to this. And it's all
extremes, you know, and, and
it's a laddering of impulsive

(01:02:58):
extreme.

>> Brendon Fox (01:02:59):
You know, and, and playing chicken with each other, too.
Right.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:03:03):
I went here and then I'll Go there and I'll meet you. And I'll meet you
and, and, and, and they don't have time to really like, be
rational about it. You're right. And I think if they're going to go somewhere, they're
going to double down. So I think, I think, as you said, Jeff,
it feels make sense to me, Chris, if like as she is saying,
there's no secrets left. This man treated me
abominably. You have to choose, and

(01:03:24):
it has to be extreme one way or the other. If you choose
badly, you will be banished forever from my company and
everyone I know. If you decide to be
you, then if you choose not to go that way, Chris, you have to show
her there's no ambivalence.
There's no kind of sort of. I'm disappointed in him,
you know, because anything. Because she just was

(01:03:44):
the Old Testament God there in her speech, right.
She cast Adam and Eve out of Eden. So
that's what, that's. The woman you're dealing with right now
is like not in half measures. So
you, you respond
strongly and passionately. And that
might be the only thing that registers with her right now.

(01:04:05):
You're. You're all in or you're all out. And. But that can
be a nice surprise for you, Jen. You know, that impulsiveness,
like Jamie said of like, he goes there and I think it's kind of,
it would be kind of fun to explore, Chris, of this coming out of you and
maybe you not realizing, oh, shit, I just challenged him to a
duel.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:04:21):
You know, and, and, and before either
of you can fully process that, here.

Comes Jelloby and tea
time.

>> Brendon Fox (01:04:29):
Right. And you have to sit on that.
Yes. Like, like Gwendolyn and Cecily. You
have to be like, ah, so much I want to say. And.
Exactly.

That's a playwright coming in.

>> Brendon Fox (01:04:39):
Right? Yeah.
All right, well, this is a great moment I'd like to take. Can we take a
quick five and let's, Or five.
Ish. Let's come back at, nine, 15 my
time, which is 5:15 your time. And we'll
circle back to the beginning. Thanks,
everybody.

Thank you. And then I'm gonna.

Disappeared.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:05):
I'm here, I'm gonna listen.

And I'm going to, take, my leave.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:09):
Yes. We will see you next week.

Okay.

Oh, my God, this is so much fun. I'm loving this so
much.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:17):
It's. It's so great.

Yeah.

Okay, I'll see you all next time.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:21):
All right, Timmy, continue.

All right, bye.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:24):
And we're back.

Hello.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:26):
Hello.

Hello.

>> Brendon Fox (01:05:29):
before we pick up on page eight, just before
Jellyby comes in, I just had. I
had. If you don't mind me, Téa, I just would love
to ask your. Any thoughts you had
on all the
things you just witnessed? And, we've
talked a lot about you in that, first hour, but, about
Thomasina. But, just from the outside, any things you

(01:05:52):
wanted to share on? that other scene?

>> Téa Guarino (01:05:56):
I. I was just
thinking about the. That's just the subtlety
of the subtlety, but the non. subtlety of
the language that the playwright is using. That
is just so. And this is my first time. Well, my second
time now, just like looking and reading, kind of
digesting it all. So I'm just kind of seeing what,
you know, how things are being

(01:06:19):
laid out. It's just so
calculated in every way. And I just. I
love what. What Jen and Chris
and and Jamie are doing with.
With the characters. It's just, Yeah, it's. It's
awesome to watch. And I think the. I think
the funny thing was, when Jen was talking about
the, like the letters and like the rice pudding. I know

(01:06:41):
that we're gonna come back to the rice pudding. Putting topic in.
In this scene, which is just like,
how different that scene is to my
relationship with Septimus in the first scene. And just
like the. The arc of
things. So it was just. It's so interesting to, you know,
see and watch and be a part of it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:06:59):
So.

>> Téa Guarino (01:07:00):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:07:02):
I hadn't thought of this before, but just when you mentioned the rice pudding
again, it. You could. You could say that a
part of this play is all about our
appetites.
Right? And in. And how do. How would
we want to feed ourselves in every part of ourself?
And for Thomasina, I love the obsession
with rice pudding. I mean, you know, like, they're like,

(01:07:25):
yes, rice pudding is the best. And like. And
it's. And it's so simple in some ways. Like, she's so.
She's a genius, but she's also like, I live for rice
pudding. And, And. And then in the.
In the later scene, it get. When they are adults, that gets so
much more complicated about appetites. And am I
allowed to have this? Am I ashamed of this? There are
rules. And for Thomasina,

(01:07:47):
it's like rice pudding is like, that
makes it the best day ever.

Yeah, it's simple as that. And now that you bring it
up, the other thing about the rice pudding, metaphor
image is that my answer to it is that
things just get more and more complicated and mixed up,
and you can't go back and
it. In this morning scene that we were. You.
You were just working on, that's what's happened. I mean, things

(01:08:12):
have gotten so complicated, and there's
kind of no way to straighten it out. You can't unstir
the pudding.

>> Téa Guarino (01:08:19):
Yeah.

Again. Yes, again.

>> Brendon Fox (01:08:21):
It's.

It's appetite and time travel. It's, you
know, head and groin all
happening. That's what. That's what I love about
this guy.

>> Brendon Fox (01:08:30):
Yeah. Mixes.

He mixes it all together, you know? Yeah,
I just noticed that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:08:37):
Well, let's. Let's. I, just never knew when
we were about to start this, a week ago, how much of our time
would be spent talking on rice pudding, which is amazing to
me. I have no. No notes on that. I think
that's just. It's so. So beautiful.
just going back. Let's go back to the top of eight. It's about where we left
off. And a quick question for you, Jeff.

(01:08:58):
after she says, I shall never do it without thinking of you. Thank you very much,
my lady. Was Mrs. Chaytor down this morning?
No. Tell me more about sexual congress. Just
to ask sort of a blatant question, but,
Why do you instigate that? What's. What's your.
Why do you want to know what's. What's that about?

I hadn't.
Sorry. No, I'm not muted.
I, I hadn't thought too much about it. I thought it, I
guess, in a kind of simple way. I was
just wondering
if she, I don't know if she's. If she's in a state
about what happened yesterday. About

(01:09:41):
the, The carnal embrace.

>> Brendon Fox (01:09:44):
Right. In the gazebo. So that was just yesterday.
Right. And. And so if
she's come down this morning, she's. You were up
earlier than Mrs. M. Cheater. Right. But
Thomasina was at. Was it
at breakfast?

So she heard all this right in the. In the kitchen?

>> Brendon Fox (01:10:02):
Right in the kitchen. And then Mrs. Chaytor
was down this morning. Yeah. What kind of state she's in? That makes sense
to me. And was she, She
doesn't seem like the most subtle person. I guess not gathering about
Mrs. Jader?

Currently not.

>> Brendon Fox (01:10:17):
So. So maybe it's, you know, like,
what. Is she in any kind of state to.
That might call, attention to anything that happened?

Exactly. Has she. Has she given it. Given it away?

>> Brendon Fox (01:10:28):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which. Which
is. Which is great. And then she gives you the good answer, which is no.
Right, so that's. That's good news.

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:10:35):
That she hasn't been down, probably.

Oh, and that's good because that makes me think,
so if Mrs. Chaytor hasn't blown the
gaff or, you know,
told what's going on, if there's no sign from her, that
helps sort of motivate or inform this line.
So much for Mr. No. It's Noakes who's the snake in the
garden. He's the one who's given it away.

>> Brendon Fox (01:10:57):
Yes, right. Yes, that's right.
Oh, that's great.

That helps inform that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:02):
Right. So she's off the hook. Right. And it's actually.

And then, I mean, a lot through. Through a lot of this. I
mean, I'm. I'm dealing. I'm talking genuinely with
Thomasina because I like her so much, but I'm also thinking
about. Right. Or, he's thinking about how do I deal
with this thing? How much trouble am I going to get into?

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:19):
Right. Well, because you did it in a gazebo,
that could have, you know, it was. It was
indiscreet. It wasn't. It was. Not that
it was like in the. Necessarily in the middle of the open lawn, but still, it
wasn't in a room.

No.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:32):
So I think it was something that's, It's. It's, you know,
you're exposed and I think that puts you in a.
A tricky place because of
this.

But it's all. As far as I'm concerned, it's all her.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:44):
She just literally ran you to
ground.

And it's interesting that they're. They're only aspired because
of Noakes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:53):
Yeah.

Theodolite, which is there on the table. It's a sort of telescope thing.
Right. So.

>> Brendon Fox (01:11:57):
Right.

He's laying things out. So he's.
It's like they've been. It's kind of far
away from everything.

>> Brendon Fox (01:12:05):
Right.

So.

>> Brendon Fox (01:12:06):
Yeah. That's why you thought it would be safe. Yeah, that
it's enough of a speck on the. To me, it
implies how big Lady Croom's estate is that you
can see it, but you can't really pick people out
with the naked eye. But if you have a,
telescope.

Damn Age of Enlightenment
instrument.

>> Brendon Fox (01:12:24):
Damn you, Age of Enlightenment.

Damn you, Age of Enlightenment.

While we're still talking about locations, do we know
why he slept in the boathouse?

>> Brendon Fox (01:12:33):
Oh, you mean from the previous scene.

>> Téa Guarino (01:12:35):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:12:36):
Oh, well, I
think what Chris was sharing was that it was,
It was about connected to the
letters that he
didn't he? Was. He didn't want to be there when the
letters. This was sort of. He was leaving his kind of last will
and testament to Thomasina and Lady Croom. And then

(01:12:57):
being away to have the duel, probably
to die, but not. Not wanting to be
in the house.

Yeah, I was sort of connecting it to the gazebo.

>> Brendon Fox (01:13:06):
Was.

This is the boathouse. Another hookup
spot.

>> Brendon Fox (01:13:11):
Oh, interesting. Yeah. yeah,
yeah, I think there are probably
plenty on a country estate biggest.

Date, like you said.

>> Brendon Fox (01:13:22):
Right.
Well, what if we start with M? That question. Was
Mrs. Chater down this morning? Could we go from there?
The top of eight?

My top of eight. Oh, yes. Thank you.
Thank you. thank you very much, my
lady. Was.
Thank you very much, my lady. Was Mrs.
Cheetah down this morning?

>> Téa Guarino (01:13:48):
No. Tell me more about
sexual congress.

There is nothing more to be said about sexual congress.

>> Téa Guarino (01:13:57):
Is it the same as love?

Oh, no, it's, much nicer
than that.
I am teaching Jellyby.

Beg pardon? Mr. Hodge.
Mr. Chaytor said it was urgent you
receive his letter.

Oh, very well. Thank you.
Thank you.

Mr. Chaytor asked me to bring him
your answer.

My answer?
well, my answer is
that as is my custom and my duty to
his lordship, I am engaged until a quarter to
12 in the education of his daughter.
When I am done, and if Mr. Chaytor is still there, I will
be happy to wait upon him in, In the gun

(01:14:50):
room.

I will tell him so. Thank you,
sir.

>> Brendon Fox (01:14:57):
Hold the letter. Place it.

>> Téa Guarino (01:15:00):
What is for dinner, Jellyby?

boiled ham and cabbages, my lady.
And a rice pudding.

>> Téa Guarino (01:15:09):
Oh, goody.

Well, so much for Mr. Noakes putting himself
forward as a gentleman and a philosopher of the
picturesque. A visionary who can move mountains and
cause lakes, but in the scheme of the
garden, he is the serpent.

>> Téa Guarino (01:15:27):
When you stir your rice pudding, Septimus,
the spoonful of jam spreads itself
round, making red trails like the picture of a
meteor in my. As in my,
astronomical atlas. But if
you stir backward, the jam will not
come together again. Indeed, the pudding does not

(01:15:48):
notice and continues to turn pink, just as before.
Do you think this is art?

No.

>> Téa Guarino (01:15:55):
Well, I do. You cannot
stir things apart no more.

You can. Time must needs run backward. And
since it will not, we must stir our
way onward, mixing as we
go, disorder out of disorder
into disorder, until pink
is complete, unchanging and
unchangeable, and we are done with it
forever. This, ah, is what is known as

(01:16:23):
self determination, or, free will.

>> Brendon Fox (01:16:27):
Great. Let's hold there for A moment.
so we got. What do we. What's going on with the letter here?
Let's go back to eight. So is this
the challenge from Chater?

yes. Well, it's the beginning of the
beginning of the challenge
because he'll come in in a minute and say,
I, I asked you to come see me. And.

>> Brendon Fox (01:16:53):
Right, right.

but he, he didn't quite say.

>> Brendon Fox (01:16:56):
Right, right.

And then he goes into that. You were, you know, what is
it?

What is it?

You were with my wife. I demand satisfaction. And then I say,
you, your wife demanded satisfaction. I can't spend all
my days satisfying the cheaters.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:11):
Oh, it's so great.
So, yes.

So it's not the actual challenge, but it's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:18):
Right. Okay.

Come and meet me immediately in the gun room.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:21):
Okay, great.

So my response is, I'm teaching until
quarter to 12. I'll go when I'm done, you know.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:27):
Right, right. So. So I.
So the one thing I would just offer Jeff is,
is there any,
value in. In letting the gun room kind of
throw Septimus just a little bit? Not, not to
tip our hand too much, but you know, it's just
strange place to meet.

Right, right.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:50):
Very good.

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:17:51):
Yes. and it does, I think for
Jamie, for you and Jeff, it. What struck me that time
was it. It seems like Stopper is showing us that
the. The normal MO is. And
the surprise is they are never interrupted.
You know, that there's a. There's a real sense of
what is happening. Like this is our sacred time.

(01:18:13):
So I think Téa, for you as well, I think there can be that needle
scratch of what this was
always uninterrupted time. And I think lady
Croom was probably behind that to be like. Like we are
giving them the. This beautiful room for three
hours every morning after breakfast.
So I think that Jeff, and all three of you can lean into that more
of like what is happening. Like,

(01:18:35):
I don't know why I have to even tell you this. You know what this is? And that
way, Jamie, it's like, yes, but this is
exceptions.
I was told to wait. Right. That's why I think
there's something fun, Jeff, about your two thank yous. Because that
sounds. Second one. I wonder if maybe it's not so much
upset as why aren't you
leaving? Thank you.

(01:18:58):
you know, it's one thing. Yeah, go ahead.

And that first thing too. Well, no, it's just to, I agree with what you
say that the, I'm teaching Jellyby is as much
like, you know, I'm
teaching. This is weird. Why are you coming in?

>> Brendon Fox (01:19:12):
Right?

It's not just annoyance. It's. It's that.
Yeah, like you said, it's not normal.

>> Brendon Fox (01:19:18):
And then. And that. And then it's not enough that he comes in to.
Gives you a. Give you a letter. Okay, that's strange. But
then the. The new surprise is you're still here.

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:19:28):
Right. Nothing. This can't wait for another
hour. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, it's. It's,
We've been here for a little while, so it's not, you
know. And then the third weird thing is. Oh,
I'm supposed to meet him in the gun room. Okay.
You know, and then. And so here's the thought.
Jamie and Téa, what if we
explore. How would you feel,

(01:19:50):
Jamie, if, like, if, you know, I feel like the whole family
is pretty charmed by Thomasina and
servants included. So what if. What if
you decide to tell her
spoiler alert about the rice pudding just to see her
react?

Oh, yes, that's very good.

>> Brendon Fox (01:20:07):
You don't get many pleasures on the day.

That's very good.

>> Brendon Fox (01:20:11):
Yeah, right? Yeah, it's like, it's.

It's like it's not an ordinary day.
It's not a cooking day.

>> Brendon Fox (01:20:18):
Right.

Evening.

>> Brendon Fox (01:20:19):
Exactly. And Téa, I think you can go more nuts with that.
Yes. Right. Like, we have to see the 13
year old geek the F out. Yeah,
Right. It's. It's like, because I think
that's part of it too is like, we have to keep that
dichotomy between like, oh my God, My God, that's so
great. Okay, what's the deal with like, time. What's
also the deal with like, not stirring? Like,

(01:20:43):
so. And I know we're just exploring this and making sure we're
clear on things, but as you get more comfortable Taya with
her and her thought process. And in
no way am m. I saying, like, we should rush, but I would encourage you to
see what happens if she allows herself sometimes
to run down the hill. You know what
I mean? That

(01:21:03):
she's just like, but what about this? But like,
so that it's a need that
is kinesthetic.
But explain the
jam. Like,
you've been thinking about this for months and
today. And so like, since Inta was triggered by Jelloby
going, guess what we're having. Excellent. Okay. We're

(01:21:25):
talking about the jam. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to go
through another night of having the jam and keeping these
questions myself.

>> Téa Guarino (01:21:33):
Yes. Beautiful, right?

>> Brendon Fox (01:21:35):
That. That way we keep her still. Like, she's
asking these huge questions, but she's asking them as a 13 year old who
is like, tell me yesterday.

>> Téa Guarino (01:21:44):
Yeah, I already needed to know.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:21:47):
Yes. And like, why. And you're dropping on your
duties to tell me this sooner? Like,
right? And like, the more you. And I think you can have more fun too
with like. But is. And when he's like, oh, that's not
weird. No, it is weird, dude.
Right? How. Yeah,
yeah, that's strange. You can't. And then he

(01:22:10):
gives you this new way to think of it. And
I think that, you know, I think there then, Jeff, you can have
fun with meeting her. Part of the fun of being with
Thomasina, I think is. I think there's a part
of Septimus that is both a boy and a man,
Right? Oh, yeah. Let yourself
geek out too. So that if she's going there and

(01:22:30):
rallying the cage, I think you can have fun,
like meeting her in whatever way you can to say.
Yeah, but remember, time.
Right? And then that way it allows you tann to go. Oh,
crap. Right.

>> Téa Guarino (01:22:43):
Yeah, like, whoa.

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:44):
Yeah, like, you know,
don't.

Yeah, that's very good. Because it is both. I mean, it's a
very sophisticated adult
answer. You can't make time go
backwards.

>> Brendon Fox (01:22:57):
Right.

That's the only way that would work. And then it gives you this.
This kind of nihilistic version of. It's just
disorder into disorder into disorder.
But. But still, you know, it's something
that she could understand. it's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:11):
Yeah.

Yes. I mean, I totally agree.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:14):
It matches her experience. Right. You. You give her
that scientific. That's what makes him such a brilliant teacher. You
put it in a term she can understand. And then also m. Like
a teacher. Jeff, I would encourage you to. To explore
more. This is known as free will or self
determination. You know, there are times as a
teacher, you're saying something that's just for you.

(01:23:34):
You know what I mean?

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:35):
And it goes right over the heads of the students. I'm sure Dr. K can't
relate, but you know, where. Where. And
Because that is not picked up at all, I think, by Thomasina,
but I think that's you in the audience. Like,
you're just being cheeky with yourself of like.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:49):
You know what I mean? Yeah, it's.
It's because that's where I feel like you.

You.

>> Brendon Fox (01:23:55):
And then because I think, Téa, that way if we
let you still be on the pink is complete. Oh, my God.
And you we see how wrapped you
are with that. And now you're chewing on that.
That allows Jeff to kind of be a
little, you know, witty about
whatever self determination
is for himself.

(01:24:17):
And then you can come right in with, okay, well,
if that's the case, then what about God, right? It's
like.

Hm.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:24):
It's like just when. Just when Septimus thinks it's
done, it's only. You're only quiet for a second
because the hard drive is worrying.

>> Téa Guarino (01:24:33):
Yeah, yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:34):
Right.

>> Téa Guarino (01:24:34):
Pauses. There's no.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:36):
No, no, in the brain, right?

>> Téa Guarino (01:24:38):
Yeah, not at all.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:40):
And that's what I feel like, Jeff. It's sort of like you're having fun with the
tortoise. Like, sit. Now I can go back to what?
God. Okay, we're back.

Okay.

>> Brendon Fox (01:24:47):
Exactly.

That's. Again, that's. That's a great little
thing that he gives you. It's like
this is what's known, as free will of self determination. He
almost says QED but picking up the turtle
and placing it, that's sort of
like the QED he said earlier. This is the end of
discussion.

>> Brendon Fox (01:25:06):
End of discussion. Sit. No more from you. And that's. And
that's what's so funny. Yeah. It takes him
and it lets him be entertaining for himself as well,
that he can't. You know, I think he gets a kick out of himself. A lot of
stoppers characters do. Lady croom does,
you know, they are. Have a spit of
self satisfaction.
And I think that it.

(01:25:29):
There's some. What also occurred to me, Téa, is there's something
wonderful with Thomasina about the bright
shiny object. Like,
the last question doesn't matter.

>> Téa Guarino (01:25:40):
Only this now I'm on this one. Like, I don't. I don't care about that
anymore.

>> Brendon Fox (01:25:44):
Right,
Exactly. There's no previous scene. It's
just. Okay, here's the only question I want to. No, forget. I don't even
remember Bryce Pudding is. Got it in a
Newtonian. Yeah, right. Because this. This
is like.

>> Téa Guarino (01:25:58):
Yeah, that's the only thing that matters right now. I think that
that makes it more. That. That makes
it less complicated for just less
complicated in my brain as tay. It'd be like, okay,
this now, boom. this now
it's just like a. So
like, that's. That's great.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:26:16):
Right. Like the dog and up squirrel.
Right? It's. Except it's like quantum
mechanics. Right? Oh, my God. Right?

>> Téa Guarino (01:26:25):
That's a perfect example, actually.

>> Brendon Fox (01:26:27):
Yeah, that and I. I mean, it's funny, Jeff, that
you make this and then you go into The Etonian. I
mean we'll get into this in a second. But it's funny
how. I mean obviously you know what she said.
But they. Why, why
be puckish at this moment, do you think?

I, I'm not,
I'm. I'm not quite sure.

>> Brendon Fox (01:26:59):
Yeah. I don't.

It just. He's just, you know, since you
pointed out this, this thing which is great.
This Sort of enjoying his own
cleverly conclusion of the, of the. In. In the
midst of teaching. It's like, oh yeah, this is funny.
And QED and. And I think he's
just still in that. I think he. That's. That's a mood. A

(01:27:22):
mood that carries through.

>> Brendon Fox (01:27:24):
Let's put it. Yeah. Oh, that's fun.

I can get. If you can give me.

>> Brendon Fox (01:27:27):
Yeah, that's great. You're still. No, I like that you're still in that.
You're still feeling kind of in that sense
of a little full of your oats and you
know, and, and having fun. And I think that,
that, I think that's nice because it contrasts with her
earnestness.

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:27:42):
Right. And that you get to be a little more
playful.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was wondering, is there sense in
this speech, what he's saying going back to the
letter? Because he does look at the
letter before he says,
I'm teaching. And part of me is wondering is
he buying himself a little time?

Right.

He doesn't go overboard on the gun
room. But it's weird because he knows what
he did. It's Mr.

>> Brendon Fox (01:28:17):
Wife.

Right. He had just asked is she
down yet? That was the question. Is he down yet
or is she down yet? No. Then he gets this note
which he actually reads before he responds.
So he knows what's in it.

>> Brendon Fox (01:28:31):
Yeah.

And I was thinking about when he
says time can't run
backwards. We must stir our way onward, mixing as
we go. M. He knows what he did.
And you know, he also has in his hand
A note from Mr. Chainer. Can't turn
back time. He did a thing.

(01:28:52):
And free will or self determination.
Like he's made a choice about what,
what he did there. So I wonder if
there's both the teaching moment for her. But you know, he's
thinking personally about his own
actions and what he did
and stirring things up.

>> Téa Guarino (01:29:11):
Yeah. I think almost like that's good. You
get like horrible news and then like a friend 5 year
old child comes up to you and it's like, look at like my drawing of
the sun. Like oh my gosh, like all my rays.
And you're just like, I just lost my job.
Like oh my gosh, look at the orange and red
there. And wow. And like you don't even

(01:29:32):
notice like what they're saying, but you're just like, yup. Like you can. You're
like a great drawer, but it's still in
the back of your head of like
this thing is like weighing down on you. So
yeah, I was definitely thinking that too as well. So. Such a
great point.

>> Brendon Fox (01:29:47):
Well, and he is as the serpent. I mean you say Jeff, this
is going to connect to what you say Jennifer, in the next, in that
next scene we're studying what, what I hear under what
you just said, Kate, is, the
next step after the servant serpent is
banishment. You know, it's like
it's, it's. I mean whether this is fully conscious
or not, but essentially of have I.

(01:30:11):
Is. Is. Is there. Is there no going back from this? And is
this going to be. You know, because if now if. No, you
know, if not, is the serpent. He's not. He's
savvy. He's smarter than Cher,
than Right. And what does he want? Or what
is he going to say? And so now that's worrying in the back of your
mind. And so I, I like that, that maybe
there's something fun, Jeff, when we come back to it of like

(01:30:34):
the way that you use all that language of my answers, my
custom, my duty to your lordship. Is there a little
bit of a sense of trying to deal
with what you just read
and taking it out on Jelloby a little
bit, you know what I mean? Not in a
super harsh way, but there's just something to explore there, I
guess.

Yes. And
I think it's poor Jellyby,
the, the go between. He has to
communicate, all this back to
him.
so, So I guess I'm telling Jellyby
how rather than just saying I'll meet him at

(01:31:15):
1:00, you know, tell him
1:00 or I understand this thing. He goes through this
long thing so that Jellyby can in his
inimitable way, you know,
get at shader, you know.

>> Brendon Fox (01:31:28):
Yes, yes, exactly. You know, I like that. I mean
making a bigger deal out of the fact that what, what has been
interrupted here is important and
sacred and you know, and hoping that
Jellyby sends that across of like I'm not someone that can
just be talked to in a gun room whenever
someone wants, you know, I am. There's
a sort of building up what's happening here.

Right. So. So, Septimus,
I'm not. I'm not upset at Jellyby, but
I have. But I. My
upsetness has to be carried by him back to
Shader.

>> Brendon Fox (01:32:02):
Exactly. Kicking up that dust.
Exactly.

He may not be eager to have a chat
with the husband of the woman that he just slept
with.

True.

>> Brendon Fox (01:32:13):
Right, Right. And that you. That way. It's true. And you do give a
specific time. Like, I am not leaving right now. I am
free at this time. You know, and that there's a.
There's a sense of. My time is important
with Thomasina. so
I'm not. I'm. I'm not going to. He. Because he. He probably
said in the letter, you know, it must. It's urgent. I demand to see

(01:32:33):
you right now. And,
no, that's not going to happen.

And isn't it cool then how much of the rest of the conversation
is about time and m. How time
works?

>> Brendon Fox (01:32:45):
Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, that's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:32:47):
Oh, that's a great point, Kate, because at the end of this session with Thomasina,
you're going to have to go to the gun room.
And meanwhile, she's blissfully unaware, but
everything she's bringing up does circle back
to, so do I have free will? Was that meant to
happen? What happens next?
And I think so. Maybe this

(01:33:09):
just can. But I think there's still the
opportunity, if you're being a
little playful here, maybe Jeff,
you. Maybe Septimus needs to bring. To.
To be. To try to stay
upbeat, to keep the ball in the air for his own
psyche, too. That maybe you need
to stay light.

Yeah, I mean, I. I think, again, I think it's. It's kind of both. I think
he stays light. I think he perhaps sees the. The irony
in it. But. But he. But, Septimus
just doesn't seem too worried
about dealing with Cheater because of
the way he actually does deal with him later, which is to
say your wife is so

(01:33:51):
humid that you can grow orchids in her knickers
in January.

>> Brendon Fox (01:33:55):
He says that.

And he's so clever that he manages to make it like, oh, I
can't shoot you because you're such a great part poet.
he just. He may not want.
In the scales of this. I think it really is
really important that he gives all this time to
Thomasina. Right. That m. As you've been

(01:34:19):
saying, it's kind of sacred. So, yes, he'd rather not
do this, but he will, and he
will go to the gun room. Except Chater, you know,
birth sin Here.

>> Brendon Fox (01:34:29):
yeah.

it's just, you know, seeing how he hand. How he handles it
when it actually comes to the point he's not. He doesn't seem to
be too worried about dealing with
Cheater.

>> Brendon Fox (01:34:40):
No. And that's true. What I would just add to that is maybe part of
what gets your mojo
back or in is having this rest
of the scene with Thomasina.

Yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:34:51):
You know what I mean? So that it does ramp
you up to deal with Chater fully
in that saucy way that you can.
Because you're in the zone with Thomasina. Do you know what I mean?
Like, I've got this with her, I've got it with Chater
because I think it's. To me, it's a Shakespeare scene. The way that
Stoppard writes these long scenes where you have people going

(01:35:12):
in and out. Right. We could have done a separate scene with you and
Chater, but instead I love that you don't get a
chance to breathe right. Like some of those
Act 4 Shakespeare scenes. So you have to go right into.
Well, I dealt with her and I'll deal with you. Yeah. Ah, yeah,
yeah. So I think it's yes. And what you're saying,
Jeff, just like, let's use this. If you're feeling a
little shaky, all this stuff with Thomasina can give

(01:35:35):
you, you know, can make you feel
centered. Can feel like I've got this if
I can handle her. And talking about time and everything
else I can handle.

She's really smart, unlike Shader.

>> Brendon Fox (01:35:47):
Right. So this is. Then it's like with Chater,
it's like the bunny slope. Know what I mean?
Oh, and I didn't even mean to do that. The bunny slope. Sorry. My.
It's this. This stuff comes out. All right, so
let's go back to, let's. Let's try a little bit
of that from the, let's go
from where we left from the same place. How about the when. When

(01:36:10):
Jelbi comes in with. I am, on eight.
Yeah. I am teaching Jelly.

From there.

>> Brendon Fox (01:36:17):
Okay.

I'm, teaching Jellyby.

I Beg your pardon, Mr.
Hodge. Mr. Chaytor said it was
urgent you receive his letter.

Oh, very well. Thank you.
Thank you.

Mr. Chaytor asked me to bring him
your answer.

My answer?
well, my answer is that as is my
custom and my duty to his lordship, I
am engaged until a quarter to 12 in the education
of his daughter. when I'm done and if
Mr. Chater is still there, I will be Happy to wait upon
him in the gun

(01:37:01):
room.

I will tell him so. Thank you,
sir.

>> Téa Guarino (01:37:07):
What is for dinner? Jellyby?

Boiled ham and cabbages,
m'lady.
And rice pudding.

>> Téa Guarino (01:37:18):
Oh, goody.

So much for Mr. Noakes puts himself forward
as a gentleman. A philosopher of the picturesque, a
visionary who can move mountains and cause
lakes, but in the scheme of the garden, he
is the serpent.

>> Téa Guarino (01:37:35):
When you stir your rice pudding, Septimus, the spoonful of
jam spreads itself round, making red trails
like the picture of a meteor in my astronomical atlas.
But if you stir backward, the jam
will not come together again. Indeed, the pudding does not
notice and continues to turn pink, just as
before. Do you think this is odd?

No.

>> Téa Guarino (01:37:56):
Well, I do. You cannot stir things
apart.

No more you can. Time must needs run
backward. And since it will not, we
must stir our way onward, mixing
as we go. Disorder,
out of disorder and into disorder,
until the pink is complete, unchanging
and unchangeable, and we are done with it

(01:38:20):
forever. This is known as free will
or self determination.
Sit.

>> Téa Guarino (01:38:28):
Septimus, do you think God is a
Newtonian?

An Etonian, almost certainly. I'm afraid
we must ask your brother to make it his first
inquiry.

>> Téa Guarino (01:38:38):
No, Septimus. A
Newtonian. Septimus,
Am I the first person to have thought of this?

No.

>> Téa Guarino (01:38:47):
I have not said yet.

If everything from the furthest planet to the
smallest atom of our brain acts according to
Newton's law of motion, what becomes a free
will?

No.

God's will?

>> Brendon Fox (01:39:00):
No.

Sin.

>> Brendon Fox (01:39:01):
M. No.

Very well.

>> Téa Guarino (01:39:05):
If you could stop every atom in its
position and direction, and if your mind
could comprehend all the actions thus suspended, then
if you were really, really good at
algebra, you could write the formula for
all the future. And although nobody can be so
clever so to do it, the formula, must exist just
as if one could.

Yes,
yes. As, as
far as I know, you are the first person to have thought of
this.
In the margin of his copy of
the Arithmetica, Fermat

(01:39:52):
wrote that he had discovered a wonderful proof
of his theorem. But the margin, being too
narrow for his purpose, did not have room to
write it down. The note was
found after his death, and from that day
to this.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:08):
Oh.

>> Téa Guarino (01:40:11):
I see now. The answer is perfectly
obvious.

This time you may have overreached yourself.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:19):
Great. Great. Yes. And what is. And
Teo, What? What is it? What is obvious to her?

>> Téa Guarino (01:40:26):
That is such a good question.
Let me see. No, keep going, keep going. I don't
want to cut you off.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:34):
Well. Well, I mean, I wonder, because,
a couple of lines later, after Shader comes
In you say, such as my lady take from on the music
room, there'll be an extra spoon full of jam. If you can find his
proof. And you say there is no proof. The thing that's
perfectly obvious is that the note was a joke to make you
all mad.

>> Téa Guarino (01:40:52):
Oh, to think that there. Yes, yes,
yes.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:55):
So I, I love that she's like, it's a prank.

>> Téa Guarino (01:40:58):
It was a joke.

>> Brendon Fox (01:40:59):
It's a to. It's a total. So I.
And I love that then. And then you seem so
cocky about it that. That's when such was like,
okay, yes, you're brilliant. But.

But I misunderstand
it, but she's again, like
a kid. Right? Sort of a kid would think, oh, I get.

>> Brendon Fox (01:41:17):
It's a joke, right?
It's a joke.

>> Téa Guarino (01:41:21):
You don't get the joke.

>> Brendon Fox (01:41:22):
Yeah, right. But that's something. I think
that something you would do, Messina, right, would be like, that
would be so awesome. And then you'd just be going round and
round trying to figure it out.

>> Téa Guarino (01:41:33):
Like on one of my homework work problems, I just like, do
something super
specific. I'm just like, didn't you get it? The answer was zero.
Isn't that so funny? Like, no,
it's not. No.

>> Brendon Fox (01:41:47):
Total math geek humor. Exactly. This is
like you.

Yes, yes, I love that.

>> Téa Guarino (01:41:53):
I love that.

>> Brendon Fox (01:41:54):
But the. I think you really hit on something there,
Téa, of. How did that feel with the way
that like, you were attacking her, with
such vibrancy and this sense of like
throwing herself at the questions.

>> Téa Guarino (01:42:08):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:42:09):
How did that work for you?

>> Téa Guarino (01:42:10):
I. It kept me like,
out of my head as far as I think the thing
that would be the most obvious it would
be for me to lean into her being into
her, knowing that
she's so smart and like taking that in.
In like my everyday. But I think

(01:42:30):
I wanted to go the way of. I'm 13 years
old. Like, I know a lot of things, but I'm
13 years old. So like, yes, I'm smart, but it's also
like I wanna. I. I just want
to learn things. So I think just going towards the way
of learning more instead of the way of
I know everything is just gonna. It just like opened

(01:42:51):
me up to just be
less snooty as far as like an
academic. 13 year old is how I was thinking.

>> Brendon Fox (01:42:59):
Right, right. And also makes you too
mature otherwise too. Right. Like we're gonna
see her age in the course of the play. But this is when
she's at her youngest and
her, her, her brain is. Is
operating on some. On Some quantum level,
but. But her body and her. Her
emotions are that sense of the

(01:43:22):
sponge, I think. I love that, like you're saying the learning is
everything. Like, it's.
And it's like, yes, and. And keep
going. More. More. It's like there's a. I
noticed this kind of hunger, this feeling of,
like, wanting to just always
go further. That's. That's
not satisfied. But also, I think you're starting to

(01:43:44):
really explore how actively she listens as much as
talks. Like she has no
filter.

>> Téa Guarino (01:43:50):
No, I think it's like. I think it's kind of
the. I, think me and Septimus are both
in, like, filtering
the conversation in our own way. Like, Septimus
is hearing, like, all these
existential things about time and like,
I'm. I might die if I leave. When I leave this room.
And I'm like, okay. Oh, yeah, like that

(01:44:12):
word. So this is my next question. But like, I'm not hearing
about anything else. So I feel like it's kind of that, back and forth
of. If you were to. If you were to replay it
and Thomas Cena's head and Septimus had what just
went on, it would be like, totally different. So I think that's
also super fun.

Great. Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:44:30):
Love that there's editing going on in both your parts. Right.
Which is very true. Right. Like, we hear what we want to hear. We're just
picking out the parts that are important
to us. We're like, blah, blah, blah. Oh, let's. Let's talk m. About that.
Blah, blah, blah, you know? And I love how actively bored
you were with the whole thing with Chador and the letter. We're like,
I'm in the zone. What is happening?

(01:44:51):
Come on, jellyby. You're.
This sucks. And it's like. Right. That.
Unedited. Yeah. What about me? What about me? Bring it back to me.
He's right. Listen to. Listen to Deceptivus, you know,
and that's like, so we can. We know that
something is going on on Septimus, and there's something odd with
the gun room and there's unusual stuff happening.
But. But I love to see how much can fly over her head

(01:45:14):
too. You know, that there's frequencies that
she's just not.

>> Téa Guarino (01:45:18):
Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:45:19):
Attuned to.

>> Téa Guarino (01:45:20):
Mm.
Just rice pudding. That's all I heard.

>> Brendon Fox (01:45:24):
Jen, what. What do you. What do you have?

I just. It struck me, and this may have already
occurred to you, but while I was listening to the arguments that
they' own trains that
somehow, like, are running parallel, but not
like different. But that the argument that
Thomasina puts forward philosophically
is the opposite of the one that he put

(01:45:46):
forward because he ends his speech with. So that's
self determination or free will.
But if I understand these
philosophies correctly, where she says if
we could freeze time and write
that that would be the opposite of free will,
it would mean there's a formula where
everything is in fact predetermined.

Yeah.

Right. So that you don't actually have.
Like from a physics point of view, then you wouldn't have free
will because it is actually all predetermined.
So it's interesting. Even if they're having like through different
context lenses, it's the opposing
viewpoint. I think if I'm understanding their
arguments correctly like this, like if there

(01:46:30):
is an exact mathematical equation,
then it is in fact predetermined.

>> Brendon Fox (01:46:36):
Yes, right.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:46:39):
I love that.

I'm sort of talking about chaos and she's talking about a
formula.

Right.

>> Brendon Fox (01:46:44):
Which is.

Which is the opposite of her. Her
rice pudding.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So those two things would be in conflict.
Yeah.

Jellyby is going right from interrupting this
lesson to the kitchen to tell them to put rice pudding
on the menu,
because he's interrupted it. So it's not
determined. He makes that up in the
moment.

>> Brendon Fox (01:47:11):
There's. There's free will by jelly.
Yes. I love
that. It's. It's. Well, it's. It really is beautiful
too. Just those little moments, I feel like, of humanity,
of watching you, Jamie and Téa, just
that, that choice to drop in the rice
pudding and the reaction you gave Téa and the

(01:47:32):
like. That is as important
as any theory. You know, like
the moments we see right now between you
and this and the
servant tell us a lot about
Thomasina. Right. That
she does not stand on ceremony. She doesn't care about

(01:47:52):
status. She's just like jealousy, you know,
Jellyby's one of your. One of your buds, you know, like,
you know, hook me up. This. And I.
And I love that, that there's a. That's. There's that love
there that can happen among the whole family that you've grown up
with this guy.

>> Téa Guarino (01:48:08):
It's just.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:09):
But not in a way that's like, he's over there.

He's like in a. In a constant state of
ecstasy, ecstasy of ideas,
ecstasy of thought, ecstasy of, you know, rice
pudding is coming, whatever that is, you know, it's like there's
this, you know, just ecstasy,
you know, that. That surrounds her. This is.

That's great.

>> Brendon Fox (01:48:29):
Well, I. It reminds me a little bit of a nephew I. I had a
couple of years ago. I think maybe when he was like
around 5, 5 or 6, his favorite
phrase was, what's this?
Everything was like, what's this? What's this,
what's this? And I keep. And I thought about this tonight
with Thomasina. Yeah, right. It's,

(01:48:49):
ah, constant. Like you were saying, Jamie, of like, turning over
rocks. And what, what does this mean? And it's.
And I was struck by that childlike wonder
of no agenda. No.
I want this to fit into a certain
worldview. And I will. When I.
When you stumble on something like, I guess that's it, right?
This whole idea. But, but there should be able to be a theory. And I

(01:49:12):
think the one thing I want to. I want to leave you with, that we can
explore next week is that for Jeff, that moment
of you disclosing Fermat and the theorem. Right. And
the. That near the end,
I suddenly have this image of like, it's
like the
longer you tutor her, the more you

(01:49:32):
realize, maybe, Jeff, that you can go to new
places to share with her
these new ideas. Like, I don't. What. You know, another question
of why is this day different than any other day? Today is
the day you decide to share this with her. That might have been three years from
now. But what just happened the last five,
ten minutes? Okay, I'm not sure if I'm

(01:49:52):
gonna like, fry your circuits,
but I'm going to move you from undergrad to grad
student here. And I know you're 13.
And. And she goes with it. Right.
Except then she reacts like, oh, I've got it. You know,
and then that's like, well, you got a little cocky there. But does that make
sense? Like, it's a chance that we can explore next week of like, oh my

(01:50:13):
God, now there's more treasure. There's more things to
discover.

Yeah.

>> Brendon Fox (01:50:19):
And more to discover next week.

This.

>> Nathan Agin (01:50:21):
This is wonderful. I am such a,
giddy audience member over here.
and, I'll try to say this
succinctly. I mentioned I
played the part of Septimus. There can be this morning
period, sometimes where you discover, oh,
I miss so many things about the
part that I played. and I will say

(01:50:44):
it's been completely eclipsed
that feeling by just seeing the joy each of
you are experiencing, going, oh, yes, I can do.
Yes, yeah, let me do. I mean, like, it's. It's so exciting
and so much fun to see. And that's why
we're doing this. Just the. The specificity you
can. You can get to of, just like, well, what are we doing with this

(01:51:04):
moment and what can we do here? And. And Jamie just, you know,
creating that example of, like, you know, Jellyby deciding in
that moment to put rice.

Put.

>> Nathan Agin (01:51:11):
You know, I mean. I mean, it's just such a
perfect example of, you know, they always talk about having a
secret. You know, the actor, like, the audience, it doesn't need to
know what you're doing as long as you know what you're
doing. And it just. But it just fills it with so much more life.
And it's.

>> Brendon Fox (01:51:27):
It's.

>> Nathan Agin (01:51:27):
It's just so exciting, so much fun. And it's.
It's the basic stuff of acting, of, like,
what is this moment and what are we doing here and what does it
mean but to, you know, for you guys to take the time
and really go through it, it's, it's so much fun to
watch, and it just brings it so much to life.

And.

>> Nathan Agin (01:51:44):
And yes, it's tinged with that. Oh, that's what they were talking about
in that moment. How could I have missed that? Oh,
man. But it's great.
It's wonderful. So, yeah, no, just really, really, loving
this and enjoying it. So thank you very much for
continuing to illuminate the play to me,
who did it. So, you know, it's great.

>> Brendon Fox (01:52:05):
Thank you, everybody. Thanks for another great week. excited
to see you all next week.

It'll be great to be here this week.

Good to see you, Jamie.

>> Nathan Agin (01:52:13):
See you next time.

>> Brendon Fox (01:52:15):
Bye, guys. Bye, everybody.

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Week 2: "Secrets, Servants, and Self-Determination" - ARCADIA - Tom Stoppard | The Rehearsal Room

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Week 2: "Secrets, Servants, and Self-Determination" - ARCADIA - Tom Stoppard | The Rehearsal Room