Elevate AEC - Culture Shock: How to Keep Your Company Vibes Alive - The Zweig Letter

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Welcome to the Zweig Letter Podcast.
Putting architecturalengineering, planning and environmental
consulting advice and guidancein your ear.
Zweig Group's team of expertshave spent more than three decades
elevating the industry byhelping AEP and environmental consulting

(00:23):
firms thrive, and thesepodcasts deliver invaluable management,
industry client marketing andHR advice directly to you free of
charge.
The zweigletter PodcastsElevating the Design Industry One
Episode at a Time.

(00:56):
A special thanks to School of P.E.
they've partnered with us thisyear for this Best Firms to Work
For.
They've helped us kind ofenhance some of the Zweig Insights
processes that you all see.
Those will keep happening andjust wanted to give them a quick
shout out.
So the bar has been liftedhigh this week.
I'm confident you're going toenjoy hearing some of the highlights
from our next group.
And during our conversationtoday, we'll explore the evolving

(01:18):
landscape of modern workenvironments, share some insights
on maintaining a thrivingculture despite all the stuff that
keeps us up at night.
Right, so prepare your questions.
We'll have time for that atthe end and would love to take some
difficult ones.
I'll probably just pass thoseoff to the panelists though.
So now for a couple quick intros.
To my immediate left, we'vegot Joseph Campos.

(01:39):
Joseph is the CEO and CIO atCompost Engineering.
They were.
They were our number one bestranked firm to work for in the 49
to 50 or to 99 category.
We've got Don Young.
Don's the EVP of operationsand organizational development at
MBP.
They ranked out at number twothis year in our 200 plus employee

(02:01):
category.
That's our largest category,so lots of competition there.
And then of course, my friendShelby Harvey.
Shelby's the Talent anddevelopment director and HR director
at BHC.
They fell at number 30 thisyear from our 199 employee category.
That's actually our largestparticipating category, so competition
is very stiff there.

(02:22):
Shelby is also one of ourRising Stars winners.
We'll celebrate that tonight,of course, at the gala.
And we've been able to worktogether a few times now, whether
it was through our Elevate hercohort or another panel that we've
done.
So we've had practice and it'sjust always great to have you participate.
So thanks for doing this againand thank you two for joining us
as well.
Just to kick things off, let'sget to know each of you a little

(02:43):
bit better.
Tell us about yourselves andmaybe the moment that you discovered
that the AEC industry was Acareer for you and something that
you never wanted to look back from.
I can start off so again,Joseph Campos.
And for me, I absolutely havea passion for solving problems.

(03:04):
Since I was a little kid, I'vealways been building.
Whether it was sticks, mud, itdidn't matter.
And so when I was able tochannel that and kind of bring it
into engineering and then alsopair that with I absolutely love
people.
And so bringing those twotogether, which kind of seemed a
little bit opposite, that'swhen I kind of fell in love with

(03:26):
the AEC industry.
Then really when I realizedthat even in this room, imagine the
lights turned off, it's 90degrees, the humidity is like 70%.
It'd be miserable.
We wouldn't even be in here.
The first thing we would do iswe would leave this space.
And so that's what we do as a firm.

(03:46):
We make it to where we can bein here and we can learn and we can
elevate.
That's when I fell in love.
And beyond that.
So personally, three kiddos,wife of 12 years, live in Dallas,
Texas and just excited to beup here.
I started at BHC eight yearsago and I'm not an engineer by trade,

(04:10):
so.
So I did not know what I wasgetting myself into.
I started off as the officecoordinator at our front desk because
it was really hard to get anentry level HR job.
They all wanted you to havetwo to five years of experience.
I'm not sure where theythought you were supposed to get
those, but it ended up being avery happy accident.
I realized I was stuck in theAEC industry when I started going

(04:30):
out and I started noticingpuddles in parking lots and they
just civil.
Working with civil engineershas just completely ruined me.
I noticed those types ofthings all the time.
It was really bad curbs,poorly designed drive through lanes
just really irk me now.
So that's why I was stuck whenI knew I wanted to stay was actually
when I heard the statisticfrom Jamie Claire Kaiser back in

(04:52):
2019 when she started ElevateHER.
And it was that 100% of womenprincipals in the AEC industry have
seriously considered leavingthe profession or that industry at
some point in their career.
And the first thought I hadwas, well, that really sucks because
I've met a lot of great womenin this industry and the second thought
I had was challenge accepted.

(05:14):
So that's my role in hr is tomake sure that we keep women in and
that we keep in people fromdiverse backgrounds.
And I think we've heard a lotof Good things about that during
this panel so far and duringthe other panels previously.
So excited to be here.
All right, well, good morning everybody.
My name's Don Young and I'mthe executive vice president for
operations and organizationaldevelopment for mvp.

(05:36):
And we're a constructionmanagement firm predominantly along
the east coast.
We have about 350 team membersand so we work primarily with a lot
of public agencies.
So prior to me joining MBP 18years ago was I've served as a US
army officer, as an engineerofficer and helping out with several

(05:56):
times with the Army Corps ofEngineer projects and those kind
of things throughout my careeras well as some deployments that
were in there, but we won'ttalk about them.
But I think that when I flashback to when did I think that working
in the AEC industry was for mewas in high school and summers in
college I worked for asurveying crew and it wasn't.

(06:16):
I wasn't at the elevatedposition of running the transit or
even note keeping.
I was the guy at the dumb endof the tape and I was the guy driving
hubs in red clay for blue top grade.
And so that made me very motivated.
I'm going to finish my civilengineering degree and get out and
become an engineer.
So that kind of was where mymoment it was with that piece on

(06:36):
it.
So I think that there's a lotof, a lot of similar stories that
I'm sure that are out thereabout when you found out about it.
And I think that's what's sogreat about the AEC industry is that
you don't have to be have adegree in engineering or architecture
to be very successful in the industry.
And I know a lot ofprofessional organizations are promoting

(06:57):
the non traditional educationpart to really help out with filling
some of the critical gaps thatwe have in our labor pool that we
badly need.
So that's kind of my storyfrom there.
But anyway.
Well, I've got a nontraditional path and just like Shelby,
I had a fine career before.
I was happy with what I doing.
But I have an older brotherwho's a senior designer.

(07:18):
He's got a great career in theAEC and he always told me along the
way once I got into work Ididn't realize that I was not going
to just be working witharchitects or just be working with
engineers.
There are all these otherfunctions at these firms where guys
like you with a dime a dozenbusiness degree, as Mark said, can

(07:39):
get in there and make animpact and actually at a pretty high
level.
So I took that to note, I alsoknew this guy named Mark Zweig who
drive up and down one of themain strips of Fayetteville, Arkansas,
where we're from, and hismullet waving in the air.
And I just kind of alwayswondered what does that guy do?
And so I put a little researchin, kind of made a connection or
two and realized, okay, thiscould be a really fun and engaging

(08:01):
career to go in and work withthis industry.
Of course you would never wantme to design anything or put any
input there, but the peopleand the processes and the things
that we can take away from aneducation like I had were very applicable.
So that was fun to see.
So it was an easy decisiononce I once I was able to get in
that I was going to dowhatever I could to stay impact our

(08:22):
firm internally, wear whateverhat I had to, and then just engage
and work with clients in anyway I could touch.
So the industry is very inviting.
I think once once you get inthere and understand some of these
businesses and just proud thatall of us and Zweig Group can help
educate some of the worldabout it.
So let's talk about why we're here.
You guys are best firms towork for award winners.

(08:44):
We're proud of that award.
It's one of the only ones thatfocuses just on the AEC industry.
Of course you've got yourlocal and regional type awards like
this, but we really try toelevate that process.
So just diving right into itwhen your firm earns that spot, when
we have the announcement dayand you either get the phone call
early or you get that emailthat says you've been placed, your

(09:06):
data is now available.
What are some of the firstthings that you do that you want
to turn into the game changerswith some of the data that you pull
out from the best firms award?
Shelby?
Yeah, I can kick it off.
So we've participated for thepast six years.
I took over in 2019 and doingthe analysis of the survey results.
So we always tell ouremployees it's really not about the

(09:28):
award.
It is the engagement surveythat we use throughout the year.
What we like about it is thatit compares us to firms of similar
size and we are able to seewhere we stack up not just year over
year for ourselves, but alsowith the industry so we can track
those trends and really honein on those focus areas.
Comes out in summer and thenby the time we come around to strategic

(09:49):
planning time, we have done afull analysis of the survey results
that we've gotten comparingyear over year we can really identify
those pain points so that wecan bring those into those strategic
planning discussions early andmake sure that we are having those
in mind as we're determiningwhat our next couple of years are
looking like.
What do we really want to honein and focus on?

(10:10):
And I think what has made itmeaningful is we've done a lot better
job over the past couple ofyears communicating that to employees
because I think we've allexperienced survey fatigue from our
people and really strugglingto get them to respond to those.
And it's a hefty survey, butfor good reason, because you get
a lot of good data out of it.
And so being able to point tothe different policy changes that

(10:31):
we've made and not just beingable to show them that, but then
also looking and seeing howour scores have changed and then
identifying, well, maybe weneed to tweak things a little bit.
Maybe we didn't take it far enough.
Maybe we need to ratchet upour 401k contribution just a little
bit more to get us over thathump, to get us closer to industry
average has really been a goodway for us to benchmark ourselves.

(10:52):
But then also show ouremployees that we're listening.
It's not Santa's wish list.
They don't get everything thatthey asked for.
They've been asking for fourday work weeks for years now.
It's only a couple of peoplethat are asking for that.
But we're able to talk to themthen about the why that's not what
we're focusing on right nowand why we are choosing to focus
on the things that we do.

(11:13):
So it's gone over well.
And we're getting to a pointnow where we've implemented so many
of those things that we'regetting to reassess and refine, which
I think has been really greatfor us in our strategic planning.
Nice.
Joseph.
I know this is the first yearyou all participated, so just came
out shopped for the stars.
It is.
You went way past the moon andhit the mark.

(11:34):
So.
Yes.
Yeah.
Talk us through it.
I would say the first thing iswe take a page from Kit's book as
we party.
Nice.
That's the first thing.
And for us, it's excitingbecause we have done internal surveys
that look very similar to whatwe got from the Zweig group.
And it was a reinforcementfrom an external source that what

(11:57):
we see and what we see andfeel every day is validated through
that survey.
So there's kind of a point towhere if we were Shocked by being
best place or best firms towork for.
I think that kind of distancewould create kind of confusion.
But when it came through, ittracked, it made sense.

(12:18):
And I think that's the part towhere nobody was really surprised.
It was an opportunity tocelebrate and it was an opportunity
to party because it's nice tohave that.
The equivalent of the house isnicest yard sign shows up in the
front.
It's cool to be able to have that.
And it's great for recruitmentas well, to be able to communicate

(12:38):
that to younger people thatwant to see something like that.
But ultimately for us, it wasreinforcing and reiterating what
we see every day.
And that was important to us.
I mean, like I said, to comeout and have that first year experience.
You guys have set that bar high.
So I hope the party can expandin the future and it can be a regular

(13:01):
thing.
I'd love lots of people outhere looking who might have thought,
hey, we might have number onethis year.
And then you guys came out.
I was happy after getting toknow you in Texas a few years ago.
It just makes sense.
I appreciate that.
Well, it's woven throughoutour culture.
It is just who we are.
Don.
So it's a.
Each year when the surveycomes out, it's a big deal, and so

(13:23):
we really look forward to itevery year.
And so we never take it for granted.
So we're always constantlydoing improvements to continue to
have a good culture from that.
But in particular, when theannouncements come out, we always.
It's an immediate social mediarelease as well as other information
out, not only internal, butexternal to the team, and so that

(13:45):
they can really feel thatthey're part of the celebration as
well as the culture that we have.
And we really try to alwaystie back the results from the survey
to our base six values that wehave as a company.
And so every simple things,like every time we give an award
to someone, there is one ofour six values that's tied in with

(14:05):
the citation that goes with it.
And so I just think that it'sa big part of it.
We try to, as Shelby hadtalked about, limiting number of
surveys because you get fatigued.
We do an annual benefitssurvey within our company to get
direct feedback about that.
And so we try to keep it apartfrom when the SWEG survey comes out,

(14:26):
but it ties a lot of the samefeedback comes back into that.
And of course, one of myfavorite stories about the benefits
survey that we get that feedsinto the culture was we had a couple
of people that made a suggestion.
Well, my spouse, their firmhas pet insurance, and so.
Pet insurance.
You know what?
Well, it turns out we got alot of pet lovers in our company,

(14:48):
and so we ended up finding agroup in carrier and we offer pet
insurance now that you canhave as part of our benefits package.
So.
So there's a lot of neatthings then.
That's just kind of a simpleillustration of there are other things
that directly tie intoprofessional development as well
as recruit, retain, retention.
And so it's an important part.

(15:08):
But the bottom line is we're abig believer in the SWIG survey and
we're always happy to compete.
And so we've.
When I joined 18 years ago,the company was right at about 100,
105 team members, and nowwe're sitting at 350.
So that's progress.
That's very focused effortabout how we strategically grow as
a firm.

(15:28):
So, I mean, if you putyourself in the employee's shoes,
this really has to be a giveand take process.
I think you'd be lying if Iasked everybody to raise your hand.
Who's ever had survey fatigue before?
Right.
You show up every other week,there's something that you need to
fill out and give somefeedback for.
And if you're not seeingactionable changes come out of those
responses or that feedbackyou're giving, you're going to be

(15:51):
less oriented to want to dothat in the future.
So the fact that you guysweave that into your strategy, you
react, you celebrate, I trulybelieve that's the difference maker
in getting good responses.
We have a threshold level thatyou have to hit to qualify for the
award.
And a lot of that is, hey,what percentage of your employees
finished this survey?

(16:13):
So employees are less likelyto finish that activity if they don't
think it's going to result in something.
And you guys are a really goodexample of getting that back down
to them and making it thatgive and take process.
And one of the things youmentioned, I think it was you when
we first talked, was that thequestion at the end, if you could
ask leadership one thing.

(16:33):
Yes.
I love that you all did that.
We incorporated it some, butnot to the degree that you all did.
Yeah.
So what Shelby's referring tois that the question out of this
wig survey, we probably getsomewhere about 60 to 70 different
questions that come out.
And so for last year and thisyear, we have made a effort to answer

(16:54):
them publicly.
And so the CEO as well asother executive leaders take turns
addressing those, and we dothem in written form.
In updates.
We also do them in ourquarterly town hall meetings where
we'll pick some of the morecommon questions because if some
one person asks, there'sprobably many others that are very
interested in in that.

(17:14):
So that is.
Thanks for the reminder onthat one.
That was because of dealingwith survey and it's kind of a neat
thing that we do with that aspect.
Thought it was great.
We had some of our leaders that.
So we printed out in a memoand we let employees know that our
leadership team are going toread through every single one of
those questions, even the hard ones.
And we've done a programcalled Luncheon Leaders where we
have our leadership team justhave a very, very casual.

(17:38):
We provide lunch for employeesand they just kind of talk about
their leadership experienceand how they got to where they are.
And what I thought wasinteresting is a lot of our leaders,
without my direction or fromanyone, tackled some of those really
tough questions on their own.
And it really went over wellwith people.
And so like you said, Chad,it's not even just the tangibles
of like a policy change.
A lot of it is just lettingpeople know that you are seriously

(18:01):
considering it and just takinga step out of your office and having
that conversation openly withpeople, I think really goes a long
way.
Yeah, just simple communications.
One thing we work largely remotely.
We've got employees all overthe U.S.
it's.
It's tough to connect.
Go to our teams page or ourroster and our HRS system usually

(18:22):
about once a week, a couple oftimes a week.
And I just try to say who haveI talked to in a while?
And I just want to get sometype of feedback out of them and
check, see how they're doing,all of that.
But usually those are.
Those things pile up and wecan take those to strategies.
So we don't.
Sometimes we do this awardprocess for ourselves.
We'll take the same survey internally.
But we also just try to makeit an engaging part of our day to

(18:45):
day communication with ouremployees of what could we be doing
better?
We don't always, maybe evenmore, more times than not accomplish
some of these things,especially in a timely manner.
But having the conversationsreally, it takes it a long way.
All right, I'm going to steal something.
If you're a podcast listenerto this Wigletter podcast, shout
out to Randy back there.

(19:07):
So if you guys had to pick onesuperpower that every leader that
your firm must have, what doyou guys think that would be so I
can.
Lead off on that?
For me, it would be attitudeor Mindset, Pick which way you want
to take that flavor.
The reason why is from atechnical perspective.
And I kind of like pictureyourself at a career fair.

(19:27):
So I'm talking to a studenthere who's trying to figure out whether
they want to join our firm.
And I'm trying to figure outthe same thing.
Like, this is dating, right?
And so it's quick.
You can figure out these aresmart people.
For the most part.
These are very smart people.
So it's like, check thetechnical side.
We can teach that.
That's gonna come with time.

(19:49):
But what's your mindset?
If everything is always aproblem and everything is always
something to where you'rebacked into a corner and it's hard
for you to work your way outof, it's gonna be really tough for
us to work with that and togrow that.
Whereas if you're someone.
I'm not trying to say thatthere's not going to be challenges,
though.
There will be, but yourattitude and your mindset towards

(20:12):
how you're going to approachthat challenge of.
I don't actually know, but I'mgoing to do a little bit of research.
I'm going to try and do this.
I'm going to try and put acouple steps together, and then I'm
going to see if you can helpsupercharge that with some momentum,
with that technical expertise.
That, in my opinion, issomething towards, like, now we can
work with that.

(20:33):
If any of y'all have ever comeacross someone who even in a hard
time, has said, acknowledgesthis is a really tough situation,
but we're going to figure itout, or I want to be a part of the
solution, what can I do tohelp that?
In my mind, let's go together.
We will do a lot of things.
That's who I want as a part ofour team.

(20:54):
Because in my mind, you getfour or five of those people together,
try and stop us.
You can't.
It's mindset.
No, I agree.
The mental toughness,fortitude, stick to it, Ness, whatever
you want to call it, right?
It's one of the best aspectsthat you can find in anyone because
we're all smart.
I'll say that even when I sitaround some of the most intelligent

(21:16):
people I've ever met in thisroom, there's a.
There's the ability to learn,and that's a big part of this industry.
So once that is instilled, itreally is about getting to the next
level mentally.
And it's fun to watch whenthat happens.
Like you said, getting Thoseteams together, it's.
It's inspiring.
Agreed.
And it is something that canbe grown at a certain point.

(21:37):
You can kind of see thatpotential, and you can say, follow
me.
Let's team up.
Let's do this together.
And then before you know it,they're doing that exact same thing.
And in my opinion, that's amarket success.
Nice.
I love that.
If I had to pick a superpower,notice how all the superpowers we're
gonna pick are definitelygonna be more on the emotional intelligence

(21:57):
side and not like, you have tobe a whiz at cad.
So just keep that in mind whenyou guys are doing your recruiting.
The superpower I think I wouldpick would be humility.
And I say that becausehumility is that first step in being
vulnerable with people.
And if you aren't vulnerablewith others and you aren't holding
yourself accountable to otherpeople, then you can't be expected
to hold them accountable.

(22:18):
Vulnerability and humility isthe first step towards building trust.
Our leadership team has a.
Has a saying, check your egoat the door.
And that is something that Ihave always loved, especially coming
in at a director role,probably a lot earlier than I expected
to in my career, and afterhaving a lot of these people worked
with me when I was just theoffice coordinator that was cleaning

(22:40):
up the conference table afterthey finish their meeting.
But I never had a fear when Iwas then walking in as their peer
that I was going to be treatedor viewed any differently because
of that motto, check your egoat the door.
It makes it really easy forpeople at all levels to bring their
ideas and that let me partnerwith you attitude.

(23:01):
There are people out therethat are way smarter than me.
I'm only successful in my rolebecause I have an amazing team, and
I have people that havesupported me, and I've always known
where to turn when I don'tknow what to do.
So having that willingness tohumble yourself, let other people
know that you've mademistakes, is also going to make them
more likely to share that withyou so that you can solve it as a
team rather than burying things.

(23:23):
Had a really good conversationyesterday during one of the roundtables
about being willing to open upabout your own mistakes to other
people so that they're morewilling to do the same with you.
And we had the example of keepyour first set of red lines and how
horrible that was, or at leastjust think about that.
And then when you're givingthat to a young engineer and they're

(23:44):
getting discouraged about thatconstructive criticism We've been
hearing that young people inthis incoming generation are open
to that, but the way thatthey're going to be most willing
to receive it is if you arealso willing to meet them where they're
at and say, hey, look, yeah,this is bad, but you should have
seen some of the stuff that Idid and some of the mistakes that
I've made.
That really goes a long way inmaking them feel like, oh, I can

(24:07):
see myself getting to whereyou are.
I want to follow in your footsteps.
And then they're going to bemore open to that mentorship of,
how do I get there?
Because they know that you'renot going to drop them the second
that they make a mistake.
So when I was a kid, thesuperpower I always wanted was to
be able to fly.
I mean, Superman.
I mean, that was so cool.
So now that I've aged a littlebit since then, the superpower, I

(24:28):
think that would, I think,would really help out with where
we are at MVP was the abilityto read minds.
And we are big believers ineffective communication two way up
and down the chain of command.
And so being able to, I think,making sure that you can, that the
person that you're talkingwith or group you're talking with
is understanding what you'resaying and you communicating back,

(24:52):
I think that would really help out.
The way we're set up, about60% of our workforce is they are
out on project sites orembedded with a client.
And so.
And almost half of those areone person out.
So they're out by themselveson the pointy end of the spear, taking

(25:12):
care of a client anddelivering a project.
And so communicating with themon an effective and frequent way
is a lot, and it's animportant part of it.
It's a challenge that we stillwork on daily to improve on that.
But that's really, I think akey piece is effective communication
and being able to help peopleto embrace where the company is going

(25:35):
is more importantly and livethe values daily.
And so I think that that's animportant part.
So every company has to lookat how you're set up and how your
leadership is going to whatroles and responsibilities that you
have with that piece so thatwhen you're communicating that it's
effective and timely and is informative.

(25:55):
So that's.
How about share, just to buildon what Shelby said there on vulnerability
from a business perspective,that kind of communication side and
vulnerability, the cheapesttime to fix a mistake is on paper.
And so if you can get it whileit's still on paper.
And you can have thatcommunication and that vulnerability

(26:18):
that is going to be better foryour business.
So have that.
Whether it's resiliency,communication, humility.
These are all things that wejust called superpowers.
But they're really corevalues, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And knowing what those set ofcore values are at your firm and
being able to communicate themdown, push these initiatives down
in the light of those corevalues of the superpowers are really

(26:41):
where firms start to setthemselves apart.
Just going back to humility.
I don't know if Mark willremember this, but when I first started
it's wide group, we lost aclient, a client that Mark had a
long history with and goodconnection with, because, you know,
that happens from time to time.
And I was one of the leadfolks on that engagement.
And what you say about gettingthat constructive feedback, I believe

(27:04):
that's true.
I believe that's true for everybody.
But what we really fear is thehuman element in that.
How is that reaction going toactually come out?
You think you know someoneuntil you get into a situation like
that, and you really learn alittle bit more about them.
And Mark was gracious.
I was nervous as hell.
I thought I did this.

(27:25):
Mark's gonna find out one wayor another, and we need to go let
him know.
And I just tried to hit it alittle bit head on.
And I got one of the best,most genuine supportive reactions
that I did not expect coming.
And it really changed the wayI viewed leadership.
I viewed how people cancommunicate effectively, how you
can be one way, one minute inan article or out in front of a group

(27:49):
of folks, and then you cancompartmentalize that and step aside
and really impact someone intheir career.
And so anybody who's youngerin their career, definitely encourage
that superpower, Figure outhow to fix mistakes, clean up, own
up, whatever it is, learn from it.
I think you'll realize thatleaders think that's one of the best
qualities that you can have,and it'll get you very close to your

(28:12):
firm and those that you'reworking with.
If you can do that.
Yeah.
And Linda talked about in herpresentation yesterday about key
differentiators and what makesyou stand out.
We know we're in a talent warright now.
You want to talk about how toretain people.
People can get a 5% increaseat minimum, anytime they jump for
a firm.
So if they want to jump formoney, they're going to.

(28:33):
Money is not going to keep them.
What will keep them is thatinteraction that you had that many
years ago that you're stillrecalling as you're sitting here
on stage today.
And I can point to a ton ofthose types of interactions that
I've had at BHC that made methink, yeah, maybe I could be a director.
I don't know if they think Ican do it.
I think I've got the support.
I think I could figure it out.
So that's a great example of it.

(28:54):
Oh, yeah.
And one part I forgot was, ofcourse, I hesitated, paced around
a little bit.
How am I going to get in here?
Mark's busy.
Right.
And he's just hammering awayon his BlackBerry.
So you're just like listeningfor the pause and those clicks and
yeah, that day, I think backon it a lot.
I try to share that with a lotof employees, like, hey, come do
us, come find us, let's talk.

(29:14):
We can fix things whilethey're still on paper.
And that's the important part.
I was a little past the paperat that part, but it was still fixed
and we still got a greatrelationship with that firm.
Yeah.
So the most retention studiesyou see, one of the leading causes
for departures is a bad supervisor.
So they'll leave for lessmoney if they've got a bad supervisor.

(29:35):
So I think that's realimportant to make sure that at all
levels, a firm is doingleadership training, in particular
at the project manager level,and really spending that time investment
to be able to have goodleadership, because that's what's
going to keep people.
Yeah.
I mean, with the quality ofeverything that we do in this industry,
it's rare that people leave firms.

(29:58):
Right.
They're getting to do whatthey want to do.
You leave your manager, andthat's a bit cliche, but I truly
do believe that's what happensmost of the time.
All right, so let's move on.
We'll talk about cultural roi.
That's the theme here.
Right.
So going back to what ChadKleinhens referred to in his opening
keynote, everything we knowmust change.
So how do you guys keep yourcompany culture thriving and make

(30:20):
sure it's not a nice to havecheck the box, but actually a key
driver of success.
Dung.
Yeah.
All right.
So two and a half years ago,my CEO and CEO came to me and said,
don, we want you to no longerbe the PMCM practice leader.
We want you to take over andlead organization capacity, grow

(30:43):
the company, focus onrecruiting, retention, and professional
development.
My first reaction was, what doyou think?
They go, well, I'm notviolently opposed to it.
Okay.
Because I love being in theThick of things with the PMC and
practice line leader.
That was really enjoyed that.
So this was a new role for the company.
The CEO had really focused inthat we're going to invest in growth

(31:08):
and we're going to have asenior executive leader in charge
of it.
And so formed different workcommittees across the corporate staff
as well as with our areamanagement team.
And so I think that sittingback now two years, two and a half
years later from the prospect,one, I really like what I'm doing.
So real kudos to my CEO forchanging the light bulb in my head

(31:29):
on that.
But then the second piece ofit is that investing in that we're
really looking at Net Gain.
And so we.
What were the components ofNet Gain?
And I think this is the keypart where we broke that down.
And on a quarterly basis we'reworking through and looking at the
metric trends that come out of that.
For instance, simple thinglike this.

(31:51):
We know that it takessomewhere between nine to to ten
applications for us to get tothe point of submitting or given
a job offer.
So you can plan your flowwithin the recruiting process to
be able to look at that retention.
We do quarterly analysis ofwhy people left.
We're doing exit interviews,but the more important one that we're

(32:14):
doing is stay interviews.
And so we're actually talkingto people at least once a year.
Why what's important aboutwhat the company is and why you would.
What would it take for someoneto lure you away?
And so people are just veryupfront and so we can pull trends
from that and be able torevise policies or take further action

(32:35):
on some of the ideas that comeout of that piece.
The other key thing that withNet Gain that we have out of that
is professional development.
And so having a clearlydefined career path for your team
is key.
I mean, I cannot.
We had one of the speakers inone of the breakout sessions talking
about that yesterday and Ijust can't overemphasize how important

(32:57):
that is.
So they can see where they arenow in your company, but how to get
to whatever their personalcareer goal is within the company
on how to do that and havinggood candid feedback that helps them
to be able to work that piece.
The other thing that we lookedat was, is that we always say, hey,
get your license, get thesecertifications, okay?
But it was kind of like thishand wave kind of motion and all

(33:20):
that.
Then what we started doing twoyears ago was to say we need this
many CCM certifiedconstruction managers, we need this
many certified commissioningProfessionals, we need this many
people.
And so we really tied it tothe contracts that we have currently,
as well as the businessdevelopment pipeline of backlog,

(33:41):
the pursuits that we weregoing after.
And so by doing that, nowyou're tied in with the mission of
where you're trying to go forgrowth, but at the same time you're
getting a twofer out of itbecause, oh, hey, I really want to
get my pe and so what do Ineed to finish up to be able to get
that and those kind of things?
So I just throw that out toyou from that perspective that you

(34:02):
know, so, and then, you know,what's the training that you're doing?
Why are you doing thattraining, who's participating?
Those are all things that youlook at in the analysis that we're
doing to be able to strengthenpeople's body of knowledge and skill
sets.
And we also have a overallstrategy of, we call it Vision 2030
is where we want to be at2030, primarily based off of, not

(34:25):
necessarily number of teammembers we want, but we want to reach
this bill fee revenue targetas well as this operational profit
target.
And that drives a lot of howwe do our BD pursuits, how we do
our strategy, planning, how weprofessional develop our team.
And so it's all tied into thenet gain concept for that.

(34:46):
So personally I've been giventhe charge of, hey, we need a positive
net gain of 20 to 25 new teammembers a year.
And so you know that that withplanning purposes and those kind
of things is a overarchingkind of target goal that we do to
get us keep us on path forVision 2030.

(35:06):
So it's kind of a long answerto your short question, but it's
all tied together.
And I know the purpose of ourpanel really to get into some of
that ROI and those kind of things.
And so culture RI may notnecessarily always be, hey, dollars,
okay, it cost us $10,000 perjob offer that we do by the time
you add it all up and thosekind of things.
So you want to retain people,not because you want, you like your

(35:31):
workforce.
It costs a lot of money torecruit people.
And so being able to focus,we'd much rather take that $10,000,
focus it in professionaldevelopment and upskilling training
and those kind of things to beable to improve each individual's
career knowledge as well asbeing successful.
Because if our team membersare successful, we're successful.
So it's kind of our philosophy.

(35:51):
So for me, so I think thequestion of cultural ROI and how
to Prove that is really twofold.
The first thing I'll say ismetrics, metric, metrics.
I for all my HR professionalsout there, I truly think you need
to become best friends withyour IT department.
The best decision that I'veever made, having them build a dashboard
for me so that I can trackthose numbers but not get so bogged

(36:12):
down in them.
Data tells a story and havingthose numbers is really critical.
I always hear in thesedifferent breakout sessions that
we have, hey, this is amazing.
How do I convince people thatthis is important?
And for those of us that inthe room that have worked with engineers
but are not an engineer,you've probably learned very quickly
that you need to have thenumbers to back up what you're saying.

(36:34):
It can't just be the touchyfeely stuff.
So having a partnership withyour IT department or whoever it
is in your company that canreally help you get those numbers
so you can start to tell thatstory is the first step.
But numbers are just numbers.
Unless you have an ear to theground, you have to have a way to
dig in and get those insights.

(36:55):
Surveys are one great way todo it.
You also want to have more ofa grassroots approach.
I have what I considerinformants in each department of
our company.
And that sounds very covert,but what it really is, I've identified
people in those groups who areat all levels of the group because
I interact with our seniorleadership all the time.

(37:15):
I want to know what's going onat the lead level, what's going on
at the technician level.
And so identifying thosepeople who are key influencers and
building that trust and thatrelationship with them to where you
can just check in with them isso, so critical.
And now that I'm in my role,I've been empowering my team to do
that more so that they canfilter that up to me.
Because not everybody is coolwith the HR director just coming

(37:37):
over and saying, hey, how'syour day going so far?
Or you look a little bummedtoday, what's going on?
Because it does scare them a little.
I think finding creative waysto really dig in and figure out how
you're going to get a pulse onwhat's going on with your people.
I do regular supervisor checkins, my team does as well, where
we just talk through thosepeople issues and coach them.

(37:57):
And my goal is always thatpeople don't know when I've had a
hand in how something has been handled.
I don't want them to know thatI had any involvement.
I want to empower our Leadersto handle those things on their own.
And then once you start to getthat feedback, the things that are
pain points for people, youstart to tie that to the metrics
that you're seeing.
How does that impact yourturnover and retention in certain

(38:19):
groups?
Is it tied to specific departments?
Is it tied to specific managers?
How much of that is healthy turnover?
Because let's be honest, we'veheard from a lot of people.
When you have people that arenot right.
I love the get shit done button.
I've had that on the wholetime because that has been one of
the biggest things.
If you have a problem, yougotta pick a date and you gotta make
sure that you are getting themout to protect the people who really

(38:40):
make your organization what it is.
And so I think once you have abetter pulse on that and then you
have the data to back it upand you have the engagement surveys
that also are giving you sometangible numbers to tie to that you
can really start to see, okay,how does the story that the data
is telling, both thequantitative and qualitative data,

(39:02):
align with the story thatwe're trying to tell with our strategic
plan?
And when you can marry thosethings together as much as possible
with your core values, I thinkthat's when you really create something
wonderful and when you canreally prove that you have that return
on investment because you'regoing to start seeing people who
are actually aligning withyour core values.
That's what everybody signs up for.
Not everybody knows exactlywhat their job is going to entail,

(39:25):
but they should go out to yourwebsite and they should know what
your core values are and youshould be communicating those from
day one.
That's that uniting factorbehind it.
So think once you can tellthat story effectively and make sure
that it aligns with where youwant to go, that's when you have
the magic happen.
Yeah, Amen.
I mean, there's a well known concept.
As you move up the leadershipinto that arena, your EQ goes down.

(39:50):
Well, that doesn't necessarilyhave to be true.
You just have to make it a priority.
Absolutely.
And whether or not it's havinginformants or getting the feedback.
Don't use that word by theway, they hate that.
But it's true.
I mean, there has to be a waythat you can connect level to level,
generation to generation atyour companies and firms don't need

(40:11):
to be scared of that.
They need to embrace it.
And sometimes that can be ascary thought of what if they ask
me about TikTok, like what?
What are these things that Ican't connect with them on.
But you'd actually realizethat you have a lot more common ground
than you think.
I think the other importantthing too is a lot of times companies,
and especially because we area little slow to adapt in the AEC
industry, I will say we'regetting better think that HR are

(40:35):
supposed to be your culture enforcers.
But if that is the way thatyou are operating, you are behind
the game.
You have to.
HR needs to be in an advisoryrole, your talent development, human
resources, whatever.
In having your leaders thatare actually working with those employees
day in and day out, they haveto be the culture advocates.
If it's only coming from topdown, it's not gonna work.

(40:55):
Yeah, I think for us the waythat we've kind of brought it all
together is we've got a system.
So at the very top we have our csp.
That's our corporate strategic plan.
And in that is our long termand our short term vision.
Right below that we have ouroperational plans.
And then right below that wehave what we call our wwpas, which

(41:17):
stands for Win Performance Agreement.
We have one with every singleperson on our team.
So what is that?
The whole idea is we want tofind out how the company can win
because that's important.
We're running a business here,but also how the team member can
win.
And that's an agreementbetween the two of us.

(41:39):
It's not something that iseasy to do and quick.
It takes time.
And so that's where we investthat time.
We have the conversation.
That's where you need to bewilling to remember that a person
is more than just the sidethat you see at work.
I mean even just at thisconference, I've talked to what sound

(42:00):
like world class fly fishermen.
I've talked to people thatmake puppets.
I've talked to just humans are awesome.
Take the time to figure outwhat else is driving someone and
see how you can turn that intoa win for them.
And is there a way that youcan turn that into a win for the
firm?
Those skills don't always haveto transfer, but you're going to

(42:23):
find passion.
And high performance is voluntary.
So who in this room wants highperformance at their firm?
It's going to be hard to force that.
How can you get them to bewilling to volunteer that passion
to where they see it as morethan just grinding hours?

(42:45):
Because when you're tappedinto that passion and they have found
the win and it's in alignmentwith what wins for the firm at that
point, the hours Just kind ofmelt away.
And it's no longer about that.
It's about focusing on themission and the vision which like
I said when I kind of startedoff, if you start with the top of

(43:05):
that's what all this stuffaligns with, then you know that when
that person is executing ontheir wwpa that Win Win Performance
Agreement, it's in alignmentwith the whole firm.
You have everybody pulling inthe same direction and that's an
efficient way to do it.
It's an effective way to doit, which is really what we're after.

(43:25):
Yeah, I know one person atZweigroup who has a Win Win Performance
Agreement that's gonna be Chad Kleinhens.
We mash his passion for AECand events with audio visual and
it really enhances the whole thing.
If you haven't take a lookaround at the rafters, you can tell
this guy stays up nights, hecurates the playlist, he helps design

(43:47):
the lighting show.
We can't get him to stopbecause it's a passion but it also
enhances our business.
So why would we want to get itin his way?
I think that that example justcame to mind.
We've got about 10 minutesleft, maybe a few less than that.
But we do want to give theaudience some opportunities.
So if we have a mic runner ortwo and we have some questions, we'd
love to field those at this point.

(44:13):
Thank you.
Chris here from EHS Support.
I manage the Australian entityof our business and report back up
to the llc.
So coming here, listening thatmaintaining company culture is quite
important because Australiaculture is a little bit different
to over here.
But my question is maybe forDon and others, feel free to chime
in if this situation matches yours.

(44:34):
And that is, I think you saidmaybe up to 60% of your workforce
is either out in project sitesby themselves or seconded into other
companies.
How do you maintain yourculture in that scenario?
So it's a great question andas I mentioned, it's a daily challenge
that you have to work through.
We have a lot of reach outdifferent programs that we have.

(44:55):
So we have different sets ofleaders that are reaching out especially
to all of our remote sites tomake sure that those team members
are part of it.
A information email or teamsnote is not going to that certainly
can supplement but that faceto face is communication is very
important and it shows thatyou're carrier about what they're

(45:17):
doing from that perspective.
So what I would just say isthat it is.
You have to make sure thatthey feel part of the team.
And so we have what we callour annual business meeting.
So we bring in everybody andtheir spouses on a week for a weekend
get together where we coverbusiness and give out awards and

(45:37):
those kind of things.
So that kind of helps culture,helps to continue the culture.
And they get that.
Some folks get to be able totalk face to face with the senior
leadership in an informal setting.
From that perspective, we havequarterly town hall meetings that
are done where we go to thespecific area.
So we bring in thosegeographical team members together,

(45:59):
and so they're able to talkwith the senior leadership.
And we'll cover updates andthings like that that's done on a
quarterly basis.
And then just every week, ourarea managers that are the first
lines or are the supervisorsfor those team members is that they're
putting out a weekly reportthat covers both on and off work

(46:20):
activities for that area'steam members.
And so it's a lot of fun from it.
But also there's some goodupdates technically that come out
of it and that kind of thing.
So you're just.
There's unlimited number ofthings I think you can do.
But it's gotta be veryeffective communication and frequent
communication.
So hope that helps answer your question.

(46:43):
You guys have anything?
Not going to follow that act.
That's a great answer.
All right, any more questions?
Come on.
I know you guys got some.
Well, I'll throw something outthere then.
We still got a few minutes.
And it's our stage.
One of the topics that wetalked about as we prepared for this
was the flexible versus workversus in office, remote work.

(47:07):
Where are you guys at on that journey?
Just a quick minute or two on.
That so I can lead off.
So on that.
When we went through thatwhole period, we did our best to
stay in office.
That is probably one of thecornerstones of our culture, has
been able to be together.
And so we do have flexibilitybecause I think part of the culture

(47:31):
is understanding that there islife like I talked about.
I mean, there's another sideto this person.
And you just can't ignore that.
Not in our opinion.
And so being able to.
For example, I should havebeen at Texas Tech yesterday.
I made a mistake.
I double booked with thisevent and so for recruiting from

(47:51):
the school.
And so basically we had a teamthat went in my place and it's like
one to three years is their tenure.
But they killed it.
We kind of did a littlepractice beforehand.
And when like the way thatthey're selling the company, that
in my opinion, I'm like, okay,this is good because their ability
to communicate our culture forbeing at the firm for that little

(48:14):
amount of time, I'm like,okay, this is a very good situation.
So that's an example of.
I mean, that's hard to get.
I think when we're separate,our ability to be together makes
a big difference.
We come into the firm.
So for, like, Christmas, weall party together.

(48:34):
We come in.
It's an important deal.
For Halloween, we dress up.
I think I'm gonna be blueythis year.
Like, it's a big deal.
You gotta do stuff like that.
And for us, doing that inperson is a big gift.
It's important.
Well, thanks for missing thekegger at Texas Tech for this.
I know, I know.
Right?
Where we're at with it is thatI've got a draft of an updated policy

(48:58):
sitting in my onenote right now.
So we're in the middle oftrying to figure that out.
One of the things that Covid,I think, did was it pushed our industry
to really explore whatflexibility could look like.
And I remember when theconversation has shifted a lot over
time.
At the beginning, it was, arepeople capable of doing their jobs

(49:19):
remotely?
And employees were aresounding yes.
And a lot of times, leaders orsenior management are resounding
no.
There's no way we're going tobe as productive or you're going
to be able to do the samequality of work.
I think we have to realizethat has.
We can put the mythbustersstamp on that one, that people can
be productive at home.

(49:40):
In fact, some people are moreproductive at home.
People can do really good workfrom home.
The problem is that when youhave a culture that is hybrid, like
where we're at now, I thinkyou heard Mike, those of you that
were here yesterday, heardMike mention that we allow people
to work up to three days aweek remotely, depending on their

(50:01):
team.
The HR team, my groupspecifically, has one day that they
can work remotely, and theynever use it, very rarely.
So it's a little bit dependenton the group and the job type.
But what we're learning isthat people can do their jobs, but
when you aren't in the officeand you're not as visible, it is
so hard to get that mentorship.

(50:21):
So you might be doing yourjob, but it's much more task based.
You're not able to hear andlearn through osmosis and get that
sense of what is going onaround you and how the work that
you're doing impacts everybodyelse in your team.
And I think that there arecompanies that do it well.
But I think a lot of them arefully remote.

(50:42):
So that's the expectation isthey have to learn how to overcome
that communication gap and sothey are being more intentional about
it.
When you have a split likethat, the people that are in office
are going to get more and it'sreally hard to overcome that.
And so I think theconversation has to shift as we understand
you're capable of doing yourjob from home.

(51:02):
And I think that's whereflexibility comes in.
We are.
BHC has always been very flexible.
Covid allowed us to reallyexplore that technology to make people
more effective at being flexible.
So if you wake up and yourdishwasher's overflowed and you're
perfectly capable, you've gotyour laptop with you.
Sure.
Stay at home while therepairman comes.
But that's not the expectation.

(51:24):
We want you in the office more.
We used to have the bestHalloween get togethers.
The HR team.
We came in last year.
We decorated part of theoffice too.
And we do a competition.
We do a chili and soup cook off.
It's a great time.
We dressed up as charactersfrom Mario Kart.
It put Rainbow Road in the office.
It was a great morale builder.
It was a great team builderfor us.

(51:46):
That cost very little.
Right.
And the whole company got toengage and enjoy it.
So yeah, I think we need toreframe the conversation to.
If you're wanting to movecertain places in your.
In your career.
When you're looking at thosecareer paths and you're looking at
what's the next step that Iwant to take in order to elevate
yourself and really becomeproficient in those different competencies,

(52:09):
you're going to have to be present.
And that doesn't mean that youcan't have the flexibility to work
from home if you're notfeeling well or if you've got a sick
kid or you've got to take yourdog to the to use your new pet insurance
that you've got to go to thevet, those things can still happen.
But the expectation should bethat if you can be in the office,
we want you to want to be great.
Comment yesterday was butts inseats matters less than than head

(52:32):
in the game.
And I think it's easier tohave your head in the game when you're
there where the team is practicing.
Yeah.
And for that type of policy,just real quick, we do so many things
where the basic scientificprocess you come up with this idea
or this concept, you test it,you measure it, you come up you change
it.
That's really what we'vemostly been doing for the last few

(52:53):
years, and your employees cansee that.
And even if you don't get itright, the fact that you're trying
to move towards something thatis a common ground or a good solution.
Exactly.
Is a really important part.
And if you're doing thatprocess enough where you're testing,
trying, adjusting things, gotalk to cta.
Maybe you'll even get a taxcredit out of it.
That really concludes our time.
I know we've got a short breakcoming up, so I'll just say thank

(53:14):
you to our esteemed panelists.
If we can have a nice round ofapplause for them real quick.
Thanks for tuning in to theZweiglutter podcast.
We hope that you can be partof elevating the industry and that
you can apply our advice andinformation to your daily professional

(53:36):
life.
For a free digitalsubscription to the Zweig letter,
please visitthezweigletter.com subscribe to gain
more wisdom and inspiration inaddition to information about leadership,
finance, HR and marketing yourfirm, subscribe today.

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Elevate AEC - Culture Shock: How to Keep Your Company Vibes Alive

"Every time we give an award to someone, there is one of our six values that's tied in with the citation."

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Elevate AEC - Culture Shock: How to Keep Your Company Vibes Alive