October 28, 2020 • 45 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
If you’re anything like me, you’ve probably been spending much of your time watching or re-watching some of your favorite shows from the past like Girlfriends, Living Single, or One on One. But did you know that there’s a very good reason why so many of us are turning to old favorites right now to help soothe ourselves? Joining us again this week to dig into why, is Dr. Alicia Little Hodge. She and I chatted about how nostalgia works to calm anxiety, how anxiety looks different since the pandemic, and she offers her perspective on managing our anxiety around the election season.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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This is your loving reminder that you don't have to
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(00:21):
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(02:13):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host. Dr Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(02:34):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, think so much
(03:00):
for joining me for Session one seventy nine of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. If you're anything like me,
you've probably been spending much of your time watching or
rewatching some of your favorite shows from the past, like Girlfriends,
Living Single or One on One. But did you know
that there's a very good reason why so many of
us are turning to our old favorites right now to
(03:22):
help soothe ourselves. Joining us again this week to dig
into why is Dr Alicia Little Hodge, who you may
remember from session thirty eight Slaying your anxiety and all
time favorite. Dr Hodge is a licensed psychologist in Maryland
and a registered psychology associated in the state of Virginia.
(03:42):
She received a Masters Incounseling Psychology from Bowie State University,
as well as a master's and doctor a degree in
clinical psychology from the University of Hartford. Dr Hodge has
extensive experience in providing cognitive behavioral therapy across various treatment
settings with adolescents and adults, and as a certified adoption
(04:02):
competent therapist. She and I chatted about how nostalgia works
to calm anxiety, how anxiety looks different since the pandemic,
and she offers her perspective on managing our anxiety around
the election season. If something resonates with you during our chat,
please share it with us on social media using the
hashtag tv G in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you
(04:28):
so much for joining us again, Dr Hodge, Thank you
for having me back. I'm so excited. Always a pleasure,
always a pleasure. If you miss Dr hodges first interview
with us about Slaying your Anxiety Session thirty eight, it
is a classic, so you definitely want to revisit. But
I wanted to have you back today to talk about
something that it feels like it's unique to what's happening
(04:48):
with the pandemic. It feels like there has been a
resurgence in people revisiting their old favorites. Right, so we
know Netflix just got Girlfriends and one on one and
people are just kind of going back to watching some
of their favorite TV shows. Can you talk a little
bit about how that might be calming and the purpose
of that during the pandemic. So I think that because
(05:09):
the times are so uncertain, it can be nice to
revisit something that gave us fond memories, good feelings, just
the warmth of it, like sort of returning to something.
If you think about it, we already know what happened,
so there's no surprises. There's a little bit less suspense,
but it's also giving you a space to sort of
like focus in slash zone out on something that you
(05:32):
don't have to essentially think too hard about. Mm hmmm, yeah,
I mean, and I think you know, when we think
about like just our bandwidth, right, and the amount of
mental resources we have for a lot of us, they're
probably minimal, right, So if we want to kind of
just feel entertained, we don't necessarily want to have to
do a whole bunch of extra thinking exactly, Because when
you think about it, a lot of these stories, the
(05:53):
cast members feel like friends or family to us. We're
familiar with them. So although we may be watching it
in with different eyes because of life experience, it feels
very comforting to not have to follow in great detail
like a plot development, and you return to something like
I remember this, This was in a way, this is
when times felt simpler, right right? Yeah, you mentioned you
(06:17):
know that it is kind of escapist, and I know
it feels like that's an interesting thing to talk about
as it relates to anxiety. Right because even when you
were with us the first time you talked about you know,
some escape is okay, but too much is not great,
especially when we're talking about anxiety. So can you talk
a little bit about where that line is about escapism
(06:38):
versus like doing too much to avoid the anxiety? Definitely,
so I will like me the line is blurry meaning
we all need you know, you you mentioned bandwidth, and
I believe that we all have limited bandwidth, especially right now,
and it can be very tempting to say I wanna
disconnect in a way that is entertaining. So that's usually
through like TV. And now that we have the deviate
(07:00):
to binge, we have the ability to sort of cocoon
ourselves because we are at home. You have to pay
attention to am I losing track of time? Because I
can intentionally beinge There are times where I'm like, I'm
going to watch four episodes and make no apologies for it,
and I think that can be okay. But it's more
so if you look up and you're like, I started
watching this at one and it's six o'clock and I
(07:22):
don't really know how I got here, and I actually
haven't even really been watching the show that might be
assigned that you are escaping under the guys of like
relaxing and entertainment. Mm hmmm. And how much of that
is okay right now? Dr Hodge? I mean, because we know,
you know, I mean, so much of this even started
with us being anxious about, you know, contracting COVID nineteen,
(07:43):
and you know we're still concerned about that, right But
it just feels like anxiety is at such an all
time high that I honestly don't know all the time,
like where the line is about, like how much is
manageable and how much is not. That's a good point,
And to be honest, I wish I had a hard
and fast answer like this is okay, this is not okay,
And I think the reality of it is, are you
(08:05):
particularly not attending to certain responsibilities? Might be the answer.
So if you find I've just been escaping binging and
I haven't been eating properly, I haven't done any of
my responsibilities and or chores, and now I feel potentially worse.
Then I would take a look at you know, how
are you coping, how are you taking care of yourself?
(08:26):
But with anxiety. I think one of the things that
I've talked about in our last interview was, you know,
the difficulty with uncertainty, and everything is uncertain right now
if you ask me, you don't know what's safe and
what's not saying, of course, I will be clear. We
have CDC guidelines. However, it doesn't feel so great to
go out and do the things that we used to
do or we're restricted. So ultimately we don't know, like
(08:48):
there's no end date to the pandemic, there's no specific
answer about what is okay and what's not okay. So
I would say it's a really personal thing to say
or to evaluate what am I potentially dropping the ball
on meeting. I may not make dinner every day like
I used to. However, if I'm not making dinner and
I'm not eating, and I'm not feeling well and I'm
(09:11):
not sleeping, those are sort of signs that this may
be out of proportion to how I would expect someone
to try to be coping at the moment. Mm hmm. Yeah.
And is there any kind of programming that you would
say it is probably not programming we want to be
engaged in right now, or we may just want to
kind of think twice about you know, I have to
(09:32):
admit that I used to be a fan of some
of those movies like End of World. End of World movies,
and if you still have the capacity for it, go
for it. But if you start watching it and you
notice your heart is beating significantly, or you're just like,
(09:53):
oh my gosh, this is just like now I knew it,
these are the signs I would encourage you to take
a step back from some of those apocalyptic movies and
maybe stick to another type of thriller m M. But
you know, it's so interesting because I think early on
in the pandemic, a lot of people were revisiting those
kinds of movies, right, And I think it was an
(10:13):
attempt to get some answers. Right, even though we knew
we was fictionalized, people still were just craving, like, Okay,
what can I expect because we have no framework for
how a pandemic really unfolds. That is true, Like there
is some research on individuals with anxiety who actually enjoy
scary movies because it sort of allows them to assert
some sort of control, Like I am intentionally scaring myself
(10:37):
in a small dose, So that actually, to me kind
of explains like wanting to look at some of those things.
But if you find that it puts you in a
worse off place, you definitely have it under your power
to say, you know what, I will not I will
not engage in that way, right. Right, It also feels
like a lot of people have turned to like horror movies,
(10:58):
right or horror shows. You know, love Craft is one
of the ones that I see most people talking about
when it feels like it is still some escapist kinds
of stuff, but you know, kind of getting lost in
this world that you know is kind of very familiar
to lots of us, but in some ways not familiar. Yeah,
and and that's the hard part. I definitely don't fault
(11:19):
all of us for wanting to escape, like it is
tempting and sometimes needed. So I'm definitely not doing all
or nothing things to say, hey, don't watch any of
these things. It's more so being mindful of how does
this impact me and doesn't perpetuate maybe some of the
fears that I have. Is it bringing me some sense
of peace or is it, like you know, strictly for
(11:41):
the purposes of entertainment, you have to touch base with
yourself as much as possible and say, where can I
assert my control? Because reality is that don't think that
we have much And the pandemic really gave light to
those of us who may have been more controlled than others.
It really challenged our sense of like, wow, I thought
that I was really in charge, and the driver's seat
(12:02):
here in this situation has made me feel like you know,
some of my clients say like, not only am I
in the passenger seat, Like I feel like I'm in
the trunk right now, Like I don't know where we're going,
I don't know what we're doing. Yes, so I want
to hear more about that. Dr Hades, you know, because
your whole practice is really helping people to manage their
concerns around anxiety. How has your work changed since the pandemic.
(12:26):
I will say I have received significantly more calls as
you can imagine of people noticing you know, this felt
manageable to me before, and now it is not. I
wouldn't say that it has entirely changed. I think that
I actually do a lot more normalizing, meaning a lot
of my work can be around asking like is this
(12:50):
rational or irrational? Where's the evidence for this, and challenging
those types of thoughts, whereas now it's mostly all rational.
You know, there's a there's a lot of fear, there's
a lot of concerns, and it actually has resulted in
me probably disclosing more to say, like, listen, I'm struggling
to sis. I don't want you to think that I'm
(13:10):
over here just taking a few deep breaths and just
living my life like this is really difficult, and I
think it's okay for us to all acknowledge that this
is difficult and and almost leave it at that, not
to justify it. I hear a lot of my clients
feeling guilty and saying, oh, I know it could be worse,
and I'm like, yeah, but what would that look like?
Like that is a minimization of your feelings for you
(13:34):
to say, oh, it could be worse, because the reality
of it is it could always be worse. So let's
just sit with what we're feeling now and say, I
am more than the fact that I didn't have a
birthday party for my kid. I am more than the
fact that I can't travel. Whatever those things might have been,
and it could be worse, but this sucks. I'm glad
you shared that because it does feel like you know,
we've had this conversation on the podcast too as it
(13:55):
relates to grief, right that it feels like, Okay, some
people have lost loved ones and so of course that
feels significant, but there's also space to grieve all of
these other losses that we've experienced this year as well. Yeah, definitely.
So it's really normalizing and saying, you know, I've told
all of my clients that you're leveling of anxiety. If
it has gone up, do not interpret that as personal failing,
(14:20):
like what is wrong with me? Why can't I just
cope and remind yourself like this is entirely unexpected, There's
no one way to go about this, and therefore I
may actually feel more anxious. I think biologically, you know,
understanding what a pandemic is and understanding that your life
could be threatened in some form, you're going to be
(14:42):
on higher alert and that's just normal. Mm hmmm. So
what about Dr Hajj for people who already had concerns
about like germs and contamination and stuff, right, and now
we have this pandemic that is real, right, that there
is a real concern about contracting things you what kinds
of um suggestions would you have for people or what
(15:03):
does that work look like? So I have to admit
I did have some clients circle back to me and
be like, remember all that stuff you're telling me about her?
I was right, right, and you know, to some degree
we we had to laugh about it, just like we're
laughing now. And I was like, you know what, I
hear you, And you know, you may be very equipped
(15:24):
with your stash of chlorox wipes right now. However, what
my guideline has been, are you remaining at least within
the CDC guideline. So if the CDC said, you know,
do X, Y and Z, I would encourage you to
do that. But if you're doing that times twenty, that
still maybe an indication of anxiety feeling your behavior not
(15:45):
what we know to be true. So what I have
sort of talked about is just level of comfort and
functioning and letting people sort of help me and collaborate
with me around what feels comfortable to you so okay.
For example, if the CDC said six ft with masks
is okay, if I have clients who are telling me,
you know, I'm not really feeling that. It hasn't been
(16:07):
my place to say, well, you need to do it
right away. It's more so me saying, okay, but what
do you feel comfortable with, Let's work with that. I'm
not interested in seeing you now isolate yourself for the
next five months, you know, are you interested in eight feet?
Can we work with that? So it's more so being
flexible and not not me taking a heart and fast
(16:27):
stance on what is rational versus irrational, but kind of
working with people's comfort and challenging them when possible. Mm hmmm, yeah,
I mean, and it does feel like, you know, some
of that is so much in the air, right, I mean,
because it is still a chance. And I know when
you were with us the first time, you talked about
like the Envivo work that you would do right like
(16:49):
so maybe you would be walking on the sidewalk with
your client, and so I'm curious to hear how that
has changed or shifted for the virtual environment, like are
you still able to do some of that stuff? So well?
I definitely even of myself will I mean I have
suspended sessions in person a for comfort, be for convenience
and having family members that I have to take into consideration.
(17:12):
And also my office was like we would have been
backed on the walls with masks, not just think therapy
sessions like that would be awkward. But I have done
some virtual somewhat in vivo, more around getting people out
of the house, not necessarily into public, but in particular
if a client is concerned about just outside air exposure,
we may challenge that notion and say, well, let's do
(17:34):
a walk around the block. I'm not asking to talk
to anyone. I'm not asking you to socialize or touch anything,
but let's sort of re establish that what feels safe
and what isn't safe. And you know, Dr Hodges, that's
the thing that I am most concerned about is how
many of us even recover after the pandemic, right, I mean,
(17:54):
like you already mentioned, we don't have any in date.
We have no idea really how long this is going
to go on and when it will be safe to
kind of re engage, And so I'm curious to hear
if you already started thinking about like what kinds of
things we will need to kind of readjust to once
you know, the pandemic is not, you know, in full
swing like it is now. Yeah, you know, I have somewhat,
(18:17):
And I'll admit that I even refrain a little bit
from being to future focused because I will start the
what IF's, like oh my gosh, what about this and
what about that? But I have considered how this impacts
the way we socialize what we consider necessary versus unnecessary.
I see the extremes. I see people rushing to return
(18:38):
to quote unquote normal and you know, be at large gatherings.
But I think it has really, in the beginning at
least made to sort of reevaluate our activities and the
meaningfulness of family time and like being very choosy about
the things we're doing. So my hope is that we
don't make a dramatic shift of like Okay, everything's fine
(19:00):
now and we don't wash our hands anymore, because that's
probably not the way. But I think ultimately it's going
to be a learning curve. I think that, you know,
I'm not an expert, but moving slow and just asking
yourself what feels good to me and how can I
get my needs met in a way that appears to
(19:20):
be safe. Mm hmmm. Yeah, we've talked about this too,
just in terms of like school openings, right, um, you know,
and kind of reminding yourself that you have agency over
what happens for you and your children. You know, so
even though the school system may be open, if it's
not something that you feel comfortable with and you have
the option to, you don't necessarily have to send your
kids back to school. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that
(19:44):
kind of falls into like boundaries work, which although my
specialty is anxiety, I'm really interested in helping my clients
feel the better for lack of a better term, whole
all around that they're they're operating an agency. So really
you have to kind of evaluate what are my boundaries, Like,
like you said, maybe school might be open, but this
might be I might be making a move to a
(20:04):
different alternative style of education and not allowing other people
to necessarily make you feel bad about that. That's your
It's your choice. It's always been your choice, and this
is a great time to enforce those boundaries and maintain them. Yeah,
it feels like something else that has been coming up
in terms of boundary work is around making decisions about
like attending gatherings for family and friends. Right, So, you know,
(20:27):
some people decided to cancel weddings. Other people have decided
to go forward with, you know, weddings and birthday parties
and stuff like that. So it feels like there's some
boundary work that's been tested for people around like how
to say no or if you want to go, how
do you keep yourself safe? You know? So it does
feel like these are continuing exercises and boundary setting that
we didn't have to think about a year ago. Yeah, definitely,
(20:49):
And it allows you to see for yourself, Like you said,
there's always work to be done. I think I was
happy even been you know, confronted with some of those
things people saying like, oh, well, why don't you just
see this and having to say like, because I don't
want to. Yeah, reminding ourselves that it is always our
(21:10):
choice are at least in most cases usually. Yeah. So
the other thing that we've talked about a lot as
it relates to kind of managing throughout the pandemic is
the importance of routine and predictability, and we know that
a lot of that has kind of gotten up ended.
So what suggestions do you have for people who may
be trying to figure out steal, Like, what does routine
(21:32):
look like right now? Oh my gosh, I'm so glad
that you asked that, because I did a podcast interview.
I believe sort of like right maybe a month into
Social Distancing UM and even some posts. So I do
believe in routine, but I have to admit that this
has challenged me to be even more flexible. So I
(21:53):
sort of like, keep a routine, do these things, and
that's what I thought, like, this is gonna last ninety days.
And now in my own life, I have my routine
has been upended multiple times for multiple reasons, and I
believe the one thing that has kept me is the flexibility.
So instead of being so rigid to say, here's my routine,
(22:14):
this is what I do every single day in this manner,
I have to be open to the fact that if
it doesn't happen for one day, it's not shocked. So
not doing the all or nothing, black or white thing,
or maybe realizing that I'm going to institute something to
try to keep me on track and structure. But it's
only three days a week. I think sometimes we jump
(22:34):
from not having a routine to then saying I'm gonna
do this seven days a week. And I found that
my clients have really struggled with that and sometimes the
guilt of not being consistent. And I've talked about, Hey,
if you would like to wake up at a certain time,
even though you know work car as we log in later,
let's shoot for that time. Let's set an alarm. But
if you don't wake up and it is not consequential
(22:56):
to you, meaning like you know you're gonna be in
trouble at work or fired, then ask yourself what do
you need? So if you want to wake up at
seven and you need to log in at nine and
you wake up at seven thirty, it's not worth the
energy to be like, oh my gosh, I should have
woke up at seven. I'm messing up. My routine is shot.
You just say maybe I was a little tired today,
I'm glad I'm up now, and then I'm gonna shoot
(23:18):
for seven tomorrow. You know, have the grace to be flexible. Yeah,
the grace piece is important, right, I mean, because like
you said, so much is unpredictable, and we think we
wake up and have an idea of what the day
is gonna look like, and then something happens in the
day is completely different. Correct, especially those of us who
are at home with other people to consider, be that
(23:39):
other adults or even children. You know, we have to
understand that while things quote unquote look normal, you know,
we have our back to school or back to work,
this is not how we were doing things before. So
it's not going to flow the same and may not
be the same. And as I said before, I know
uncertainty and anxiety can go hand in hand, but I
(24:00):
think perspective shift as well is really important to say,
you know what, I have a couple of things that
I really need to get done, Like I'm gonna prioritize
today and do my best, but if everything else changes,
I can go with that. I can buy that wave
as well. Mm hmmm, So I know, and you're right, Like,
I also doing interviews and stuff very early on talks
about the importance of the routine, and you know, it
(24:23):
feels like there are some parts of that that we
do want to at least make an effort for because
it feels Like what I often hear people talk about
is like this sense of like you have no idea
like what time of day it is, right, so it
just feels like hours move into hours and you're like, oh,
it's midnight, and like what did I do today? Right?
So I think that that's a part of why, like
(24:45):
some of the routine is important, but if not a
routine are there are other things that you would suggest
for helping people to kind of demarkeate like what's happening
from day to day. Definitely, So I often have an
encouraging class to have something to look forward to at
the end of to day, whether that is a semi
ice cream like dessert or even like we're mentioning, you know,
(25:05):
watching that show then you've been looking forward to at seven,
but sort of realizing like this is a sort of
like a start, middle, and ending of my day. The
in betweens may look a little different, but sort of
like having a cap If people do have a work
from home space, I encourage people to try to keep
doing their work in that space so then when they're
(25:28):
done working they can kind of not have that association
and the rest of their home if possible. And then
also you know, I know a lot of us work
really hard. But if it's possible choosing like an end
time to be working or doing homework and then tell
yourself this remaining time is for me and me only,
not to have everything spilling into each other, because I
(25:49):
think that is the fastest way to wake up and
be like, what's today? What am I doing? You know,
I found that even for myself. I have clients, I
have a schedule, but I do catch myself being like
today like Wednesday. I don't know, because it does feel
a lot, you know, like the same day over and
over again. Mm hmmm yeah, I like that. So you know,
(26:11):
it doesn't really matter as much what happens in the middle.
If you can have like a clear beginning and a
clear end, that helps to frame it at least a
little m m. Yeah. And you already mentioned like setting alarms, right,
I would imagine some of that might be helpful too,
that not that the alarm is necessarily indicating that you
have to do something, but that it is alerting you too. Okay,
this is the time where we want to wrap up
(26:32):
work or we want to start the work day. Yes,
I also have recently been suggesting so For some of
my clients who are teleworking and have a fairly involved
schedule or work demands, I've been suggesting, like, make a
couple of random alarms to remind yourself to go take
a walk around the house or around the block. If
you feel comfortable, go get some water, just take a
(26:55):
step away, because you can kind of fall into that
tunnel did in And then, like you said, you look up,
especially now with the season changing and the light daylight
savings depending on where you are. I don't want you
to look up and be like, wow, it's dark. I
don't even remember did I eat lunch? I'm not sure.
I think that can be really destabilizing. Mm hmmmmmm. So
(27:19):
something else. So a couple of other things that I've
I've noticed people talking about people are really struggling with sleep.
So there's like an increase, it feels like in insomnia.
So people are up either kind of scrolling on social
media or watching the news or you know, doing different things,
and they're talking about having trouble actually falling asleep at night.
(27:40):
You have suggestions for people about how they can do better,
maybe or do a little bit better and maybe falling
asleep at night. Yeah, for sure. So that is definitely
a challenge that I couldn't admit that I've also had
that challenge just because it's so easy to stay up
and like you said, scroll or think about things. If
you were to have a routine at all, maybe around
(28:01):
bedtime would be really a great time to sort of
the institute and give your body and bring some signals
like okay, here are the few things that I do
before bed, Like I turned off the TV for a
little while. I try not to be activated by the
screen because the screen is a really big interference with sleep.
I think we all knew that, but we're really seeing
(28:21):
it now with maybe we're doing like computer work, phone time,
TV time. Our brand is just like what next, what
we're doing next? And I think ultimately you have to
give yourself a little bit of time to start to
decompress um from the screen. If possible, put on the
I can't remember what the mode is called on my phone,
(28:42):
but just like you know, it decreases the light. I
would encourage people to kind of put that setting on
so that helps your brain sort of decompress a little bit.
But also just having like a quick matine. It doesn't
have to be elaborate like a bubble bath and massaging
and with oils, all these things, but it can be
a quick one too. Threes with three things that I
do before bed, and I kind of rest. This is
(29:05):
why I think if you can have a workspace you
know that's not working in your bed, you don't have
that association of like the bed or the bedroom is
very potentially stressful or this is the time where I
do all the thinking, so that I would encourage people
to try to keep that space reserved for sleeping if possible,
but also give yourself again. Grace is my favorite word
(29:27):
during this time, because I've had a lot of people
telling me about getting really tense around I'm looking at
the clock and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm still
awake on they have three hours now, Oh my gosh,
I'm never going to go to sleep. And I tell
people those are sleep interfering thoughts. And although this sounds paradoxical,
one of the easiest things that you can do when
(29:48):
you are coming up on like I get up for
a couple of hours is to say that's cool, I'm
just gonna stay up all night. And most of my
pasts are like what I don't want to do that.
Why would you tell me that? And I'm like, because
at that point thinking and are saying that to yourself,
your brain actually gets less interested in what time is
it and stop sort of saying like I'm never going
(30:11):
to get to sleep, and you actually kind of just
relaxed into the idea of like, all right, I'm gonna
be up and you usually fall asleep. Mm hmmmmmmm. Are
there other paradoxical thoughts that you think could be helpful
for people right now that you've maybe even suggesting more often?
So I'm like big on humor. That's just my personality stuff.
So I think sometimes when my clients comes to me
(30:31):
and discuss like some of the feelings of guilt that
they may be having or it could be worse. I'll
kind of give an example. I think I was discussing
around like caretaking, how it can be difficult to care
for your family um in a way that maybe you
were doing before the pandemic, and you know, I kind
of got a little bit facetious and I was like, yes,
(30:52):
you're a really bad caregiver, Like your children don't ever eat,
they sleep outside. And then we sort of laugh because
I was like, no, you know, you have to recalibrate
your concept of what a caretaker is right now. Like
my mom before pandemic, probably maybe it was like making
homemade muffins and doing all these things. Pandemic mom might
(31:13):
not have time for that, and that's okay, yes, So
really readjusting those baselines and challenging your idea of the
value judgment of what a good blank is. A good
mom does this, a good friend does this, a good
daughter does this. And it's sort of like, okay, who
made that rule? Was it was it you? Because if
(31:36):
it was you, then you were at liberty to change it.
I like that. So the other thing that has been
giving people lots of anxiety is the upcoming election. Oh
my god, all right, I mean I have the anxiety myself.
I mean so I think lots of people just feel
very anxious, very worked up, especially at least I find
(31:57):
myself getting more anxious when I see the countdowns, like
we only have twenty five days left and twenty three
days left, right, and it it's like, oh my gosh,
like we're counting down to this thing. Um, So, what
kinds of things you know might you offer or any
suggestions you have for people who are struggling with anxiety
as it leads to the election. You know, as an expert,
(32:19):
I am going to say that this one is tough.
This is when I reflect on the idea that I
often show with my clients, like I deal with these
things just as much as you do. And ultimately that
is when we talk about like the healthy levels of
escape or boundaries or limiting your exposure to things. So
(32:42):
I have found that I have really decreased how much
I'm reading about the elections. Sometimes I will admit it's
at the risk of being uninformed because I realized that
I will over incorporate. At times, I will go hard.
I'll be like, I need to read this article on
this one and this one, and now I know too
much so to speak. So yeah, I don't have a
(33:04):
great answer for you. I will admit that that is
stressful myself included. When I see things like coulmdowns, I
will close the window. And the one thing I will
say that I've told myself is I'm going to do
what I can which is in my control, and exercise
my right to vote, and I'm I'm going to try
to be hopeful that other people exercise that, right, and
(33:25):
that is the most that I can do in this moment,
Like that's the most that I can bring myself to
deal with. Mm hmmmmmm, Yeah, I agree. I mean it
definitely feels like I will fall down a rabbit hole
reading stuff right and paying attention to the news. And
you have to remember that the news really plays on
the loop, right, So the story that you get if
you watch the news at one o'clock is the same
(33:47):
thing that you're gonna get at three o'clock, but you're
not necessarily paying attention because like the anchors might change, right,
So if you're looking at something like Seeing It or MSNBC,
it feels like it's a slightly different story because it's
a different maybe panel of guests or whatever, but it's
still the main point, like they're discussing the same things.
So I think that it does help to kind of
limit like, Okay, I'm gonna check in a little bit,
(34:07):
but I don't need to have seen in on the
whole day. Oh definitely, I watch at a clip because,
as you said, the story just recycles itself and I
don't need to hear it four times. And then also,
the one thing I tell people because I do have
some people share with me like, oh, you know, I
keep it too gong because I don't want to miss anything.
In the age of technology and social media and alerts,
(34:28):
you will not every time there is a breaking news
so to speak, it pops up somewhere some way. So
don't sort of buy into this concept of like I
won't know what's going on. You will know if anything
big happens, you will know. So let it come to you.
You don't have to go look for it, right. I
think even the term breaking news, right, like do you
(34:50):
have to know it the moment it happens? You know,
Like there are some things you know safety wise you
may need to know, like a fire alarm or whatever,
but you know the latest story out the White House
or whatever, like it probably is not going to be
detrimental if you don't know it the moment that it happens,
exactly if it's an emergency, you'll get an emergency aler
on your friend. Right, So what does overthinking and like
(35:16):
the what if game you've already alluded to that, what
does that look like now in the midst of the pandemic?
Like how when you were here before you talked about
like playing out the wood if game. How does that
look different? Now? Oh my gosh. So I often joke
with my clients when we start going down the what
if hole, like I'm like, here right now, I just
won't let you know that I believe that there are
(35:42):
so many what ifs in the harder card I have
to admit is that some of them stopped real. So
you know, sometimes we're like, oh, what if this? And
what if the earth explodes? And I'm like, okay, you know,
come on now. However, some of the what ifs I've
heard lately, I'm like yeah, And sometimes I just sit
(36:02):
with it and say, what if that would happen? Like,
let's talk about it a because it's exposing you to
this feared idea anyway that I want you to sort
of play out because most often then that I can't
speak for every single one if of course, right, but
more often than not, you would be able to manage
(36:24):
that what if. So I'm not talking about something like
very devastating to some extent, but for example, if you were,
you know, maybe in an industry that feels threatened by COVID,
and you notice that your hours were reduced and you
think like oh my gosh, what if my place of
employment closes, which is a scary thought and a very
realistic one. Instead of sort of looping on what if
(36:46):
it closes, what if it closes? What if it closes,
I will sit with someone and say what if it closed?
What will we do and get them to sort of
a confront the thought and talk through how would I
seek out another job? I f or underneath it is
maybe I'll be destitute and I won't have anything. And
again legitimate, if you can't work, how would you earn income?
(37:09):
But I want to talk through, like we said before
your agency, what is your ability within this situation and
what would you do? And oftentimes we are able to
say like that would really be awful, and I would
update my resume and I would look for something else,
and I would do X, Y and Z. Now I've
helped you problem solve in a way that was useful
to you, not overthink, which is just an ineffective style
(37:31):
of problem solving. Yeah, So when you can kind of
get down to like, Okay, these are the resources that
I have available, this is how I might act, then
it takes some of the sting really out of all
of that overthinking absolutely, because usually overthinking doesn't land on
a solution, it just lands on like a lot of
(37:52):
information and over incorporating. And the idea is that your
brain is trying to problem solves, just a little stuck
or confused. Yeah, mostly because you don't have all the information, right,
I mean, because we're trying to future focus and our
brain doesn't have the We don't we can't feel in
the blinks. M Yeah, I agree. I agree. So what
(38:13):
are some of the favorite or maybe if you have
a favorite right now exercise that you would suggest for
somebody who is struggling with overthinking or you know it's
just struggling with like overwhelming anxiety right now, what kind
of technique or strategy have you been sharing that you
find clients really enjoy or is super effective. Oh that's
a good one. Two things come someone. One which I
(38:36):
believe I mentioned on the first podcast is it's just
a classic is grounding because it is so easy to
fly into the future mentally, and it's so easy to
be overwhelmed or consumed by physical sensations of anxiety. So
my go to is just let's take a step back,
let's sit down, let's pay attention to our five senses.
(38:57):
Take some deep breaths. What are some things in the
room that you see here potentially smell or feel, meaning
you know, I feel the sensation of my body in
the chair, I feel my shirt. But really working to
get yourself into the present moment as much as possible
and just sort of like be mindful of it's exercising
(39:20):
a muscle in your brain. What I mean by that
is it's very easy to be carried away by our thoughts.
And by coming to the present, by sitting still, we
are basically training ourselves to say, no mind, come back thoughts,
come back to the present moment, and just be instead
of anticipate your fear. And I would say the second
(39:43):
thing that I've suggested to people is scheduling worried time.
So we are all worrying, myself included about lots of
different things. And if you find that you are worrying significantly,
or to read that the worries are spilling into most
moments of your day, I would say I would like
(40:05):
you to pick a time, preferably not before bed, because
that is not a good idea. But maybe let's do
three o'clock in the afternoon. Get a pen and paper
and just jot down some of your worries for about
ten twenty minutes. Max. I don't want you to have
like a book when you're done, but shot down some
of the worries that you have. And what this does
(40:27):
is a it gets them out of your head a bit.
But also if you start worrying at seven, you have
to tell yourself, I need to let that pass. I'll
write it down tomorrow at three, when my schedule worry
time is because of what that does is that helps
you similarly to ground and bring your mind back to
the present and say, there are some things that I
(40:47):
worry about, but I don't have to let every single
thought take me away. I don't have to let everything
that pops into my mind set me off. I'm going
to table that and I will worry about it tomorrow.
It sounds strange, and when people practice it, they tend
to enjoy it. Yeah, that definitely is one of my
(41:07):
favorite as well. Um, And you're right, like it sounds
like something you would be really hesitant to try because
your first thought is that's not gonna work, right, But
it is something that after you practice for some time,
you recognize like you're providing a container for yourself. You're
helping yourself to think, Okay, this is when I will
do that thing, and it doesn't have to spill into
every area of my life, right, yeah, exactly. Thank you
(41:31):
for sharing those, So any additional resources that you'd like
to share. You gave us a ton the first time
you were here. But I don't know if there are
other books, are you know, podcasts or videos that you've
come across that you really feel like would be helpful
for people who want to maybe dig more into this now. Honestly,
those have still been my go toos. I've just been
(41:53):
I have a document, just a copy paste the ones
that I recommended before I essentially send them to everyone
after the first session, like copy pace. Here are some
things that I recommend. Uh Yeah. And the other thing
that maybe I can think of is I found this
graphic recently and I have to look it up who
(42:13):
created it because I want to give them a proper credit.
But I talk a lot about thinking styles, meaning getting
people to step back and an examine what is my
perspective and how am I seeing things? And is this
point of view possibly distorted? And I found a recent
graphic that gave these thinking styles actual character names like personifications,
(42:36):
and I believe it's probably intended for children, but it
works for all ages. So for example, when I talked
earlier about having that guilt and people saying like, oh,
I should be doing this or I should be doing that.
In the thinking styles graphic, it's called shashrrnda. I love it.
(42:58):
I know I've been doing this is something like Sharondo,
you know, lives her life in this way, and even
if no one told her to do it, Shendo feels
like she should be doing it and it makes her
feel bad. And I shared it recently with a few
people in a group and they were like, oh my gosh,
there's so helpful. So when I get that information, I
will share it with you specifically because I think it's
(43:19):
really cool. In it it sticks in your head and
you're like, I'm being a Shanda, right, Uh, this is
not helping. Yes, And those kinds of little techniques and
tricks are really helpful to kind of get yourself out
of that negative self talk right like you can catch
it and then it gives you a little chuckle like
you're doing right now exactly exactly. Yeah, Yes, I appreciate
(43:40):
that yet, we will definitely find that and make sure
to share it with everybody in the show notes, So
remind us how to contact you, Dr Hodge. What is
your website as well as any social media handles you
want to share? Yes, if you would like to find me,
my website is www dot Slay your Anxiety dot com,
which was definitely inspired by the Slayer Anxiety podcast, So
(44:04):
right on on trend there. And if you also would
like to follow me on social media, I'm on most platforms.
We'll see Facebook, Instagram, Twitter at helped me Hodge so
h E L P M E H O d G
E perfect. Well, thank you so much for visiting with
us today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. It's always
(44:25):
always a great time when we're together. I'm so glad
Dr Hodge was able to join us again today. To
learn more about her and her work, or to check
out the resources she shared, be sure to visit the
show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash
Session one nine, and don't forget to share this episode
(44:46):
with two other sisters in your life who might appreciate
the conversation. If there's a topic you'd like to have
covered on the podcast, Please admit it to us at
Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash mailbox, and if
you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure
to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black
Girls dot com slash directory. If you want to continue
(45:07):
digging into this topic or connect with some other sisters
in your area, come on over and join us in
the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a deeper dive
into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else.
You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls dot
com slash y c C. Thank y'all so much for
joining me again this week. I look forward to continue
in this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,
Support for today's podcast comes from the Leadership Conference Education Fund.
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(02:13):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host. Dr Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(02:34):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, think so much
(03:00):
for joining me for Session one seventy nine of the
Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. If you're anything like me,
you've probably been spending much of your time watching or
rewatching some of your favorite shows from the past, like Girlfriends,
Living Single or One on One. But did you know
that there's a very good reason why so many of
us are turning to our old favorites right now to
(03:22):
help soothe ourselves. Joining us again this week to dig
into why is Dr Alicia Little Hodge, who you may
remember from session thirty eight Slaying your anxiety and all
time favorite. Dr Hodge is a licensed psychologist in Maryland
and a registered psychology associated in the state of Virginia.
(03:42):
She received a Masters Incounseling Psychology from Bowie State University,
as well as a master's and doctor a degree in
clinical psychology from the University of Hartford. Dr Hodge has
extensive experience in providing cognitive behavioral therapy across various treatment
settings with adolescents and adults, and as a certified adoption
(04:02):
competent therapist. She and I chatted about how nostalgia works
to calm anxiety, how anxiety looks different since the pandemic,
and she offers her perspective on managing our anxiety around
the election season. If something resonates with you during our chat,
please share it with us on social media using the
hashtag tv G in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you
(04:28):
so much for joining us again, Dr Hodge, Thank you
for having me back. I'm so excited. Always a pleasure,
always a pleasure. If you miss Dr hodges first interview
with us about Slaying your Anxiety Session thirty eight, it
is a classic, so you definitely want to revisit. But
I wanted to have you back today to talk about
something that it feels like it's unique to what's happening
(04:48):
with the pandemic. It feels like there has been a
resurgence in people revisiting their old favorites. Right, so we
know Netflix just got Girlfriends and one on one and
people are just kind of going back to watching some
of their favorite TV shows. Can you talk a little
bit about how that might be calming and the purpose
of that during the pandemic. So I think that because
(05:09):
the times are so uncertain, it can be nice to
revisit something that gave us fond memories, good feelings, just
the warmth of it, like sort of returning to something.
If you think about it, we already know what happened,
so there's no surprises. There's a little bit less suspense,
but it's also giving you a space to sort of
like focus in slash zone out on something that you
(05:32):
don't have to essentially think too hard about. Mm hmmm, yeah,
I mean, and I think you know, when we think
about like just our bandwidth, right, and the amount of
mental resources we have for a lot of us, they're
probably minimal, right, So if we want to kind of
just feel entertained, we don't necessarily want to have to
do a whole bunch of extra thinking exactly, Because when
you think about it, a lot of these stories, the
(05:53):
cast members feel like friends or family to us. We're
familiar with them. So although we may be watching it
in with different eyes because of life experience, it feels
very comforting to not have to follow in great detail
like a plot development, and you return to something like
I remember this, This was in a way, this is
when times felt simpler, right right? Yeah, you mentioned you
(06:17):
know that it is kind of escapist, and I know
it feels like that's an interesting thing to talk about
as it relates to anxiety. Right because even when you
were with us the first time you talked about you know,
some escape is okay, but too much is not great,
especially when we're talking about anxiety. So can you talk
a little bit about where that line is about escapism
(06:38):
versus like doing too much to avoid the anxiety? Definitely,
so I will like me the line is blurry meaning
we all need you know, you you mentioned bandwidth, and
I believe that we all have limited bandwidth, especially right now,
and it can be very tempting to say I wanna
disconnect in a way that is entertaining. So that's usually
through like TV. And now that we have the deviate
(07:00):
to binge, we have the ability to sort of cocoon
ourselves because we are at home. You have to pay
attention to am I losing track of time? Because I
can intentionally beinge There are times where I'm like, I'm
going to watch four episodes and make no apologies for it,
and I think that can be okay. But it's more
so if you look up and you're like, I started
watching this at one and it's six o'clock and I
(07:22):
don't really know how I got here, and I actually
haven't even really been watching the show that might be
assigned that you are escaping under the guys of like
relaxing and entertainment. Mm hmmm. And how much of that
is okay right now? Dr Hodge? I mean, because we know,
you know, I mean, so much of this even started
with us being anxious about, you know, contracting COVID nineteen,
(07:43):
and you know we're still concerned about that, right But
it just feels like anxiety is at such an all
time high that I honestly don't know all the time,
like where the line is about, like how much is
manageable and how much is not. That's a good point,
And to be honest, I wish I had a hard
and fast answer like this is okay, this is not okay,
And I think the reality of it is, are you
(08:05):
particularly not attending to certain responsibilities? Might be the answer.
So if you find I've just been escaping binging and
I haven't been eating properly, I haven't done any of
my responsibilities and or chores, and now I feel potentially worse.
Then I would take a look at you know, how
are you coping, how are you taking care of yourself?
(08:26):
But with anxiety. I think one of the things that
I've talked about in our last interview was, you know,
the difficulty with uncertainty, and everything is uncertain right now
if you ask me, you don't know what's safe and
what's not saying, of course, I will be clear. We
have CDC guidelines. However, it doesn't feel so great to
go out and do the things that we used to
do or we're restricted. So ultimately we don't know, like
(08:48):
there's no end date to the pandemic, there's no specific
answer about what is okay and what's not okay. So
I would say it's a really personal thing to say
or to evaluate what am I potentially dropping the ball
on meeting. I may not make dinner every day like
I used to. However, if I'm not making dinner and
I'm not eating, and I'm not feeling well and I'm
(09:11):
not sleeping, those are sort of signs that this may
be out of proportion to how I would expect someone
to try to be coping at the moment. Mm hmm. Yeah.
And is there any kind of programming that you would
say it is probably not programming we want to be
engaged in right now, or we may just want to
kind of think twice about you know, I have to
(09:32):
admit that I used to be a fan of some
of those movies like End of World. End of World movies,
and if you still have the capacity for it, go
for it. But if you start watching it and you
notice your heart is beating significantly, or you're just like,
(09:53):
oh my gosh, this is just like now I knew it,
these are the signs I would encourage you to take
a step back from some of those apocalyptic movies and
maybe stick to another type of thriller m M. But
you know, it's so interesting because I think early on
in the pandemic, a lot of people were revisiting those
kinds of movies, right, And I think it was an
(10:13):
attempt to get some answers. Right, even though we knew
we was fictionalized, people still were just craving, like, Okay,
what can I expect because we have no framework for
how a pandemic really unfolds. That is true, Like there
is some research on individuals with anxiety who actually enjoy
scary movies because it sort of allows them to assert
some sort of control, Like I am intentionally scaring myself
(10:37):
in a small dose, So that actually, to me kind
of explains like wanting to look at some of those things.
But if you find that it puts you in a
worse off place, you definitely have it under your power
to say, you know what, I will not I will
not engage in that way, right. Right, It also feels
like a lot of people have turned to like horror movies,
(10:58):
right or horror shows. You know, love Craft is one
of the ones that I see most people talking about
when it feels like it is still some escapist kinds
of stuff, but you know, kind of getting lost in
this world that you know is kind of very familiar
to lots of us, but in some ways not familiar. Yeah,
and and that's the hard part. I definitely don't fault
(11:19):
all of us for wanting to escape, like it is
tempting and sometimes needed. So I'm definitely not doing all
or nothing things to say, hey, don't watch any of
these things. It's more so being mindful of how does
this impact me and doesn't perpetuate maybe some of the
fears that I have. Is it bringing me some sense
of peace or is it, like you know, strictly for
(11:41):
the purposes of entertainment, you have to touch base with
yourself as much as possible and say, where can I
assert my control? Because reality is that don't think that
we have much And the pandemic really gave light to
those of us who may have been more controlled than others.
It really challenged our sense of like, wow, I thought
that I was really in charge, and the driver's seat
(12:02):
here in this situation has made me feel like you know,
some of my clients say like, not only am I
in the passenger seat, Like I feel like I'm in
the trunk right now, Like I don't know where we're going,
I don't know what we're doing. Yes, so I want
to hear more about that. Dr Hades, you know, because
your whole practice is really helping people to manage their
concerns around anxiety. How has your work changed since the pandemic.
(12:26):
I will say I have received significantly more calls as
you can imagine of people noticing you know, this felt
manageable to me before, and now it is not. I
wouldn't say that it has entirely changed. I think that
I actually do a lot more normalizing, meaning a lot
of my work can be around asking like is this
(12:50):
rational or irrational? Where's the evidence for this, and challenging
those types of thoughts, whereas now it's mostly all rational.
You know, there's a there's a lot of fear, there's
a lot of concerns, and it actually has resulted in
me probably disclosing more to say, like, listen, I'm struggling
to sis. I don't want you to think that I'm
(13:10):
over here just taking a few deep breaths and just
living my life like this is really difficult, and I
think it's okay for us to all acknowledge that this
is difficult and and almost leave it at that, not
to justify it. I hear a lot of my clients
feeling guilty and saying, oh, I know it could be worse,
and I'm like, yeah, but what would that look like?
Like that is a minimization of your feelings for you
(13:34):
to say, oh, it could be worse, because the reality
of it is it could always be worse. So let's
just sit with what we're feeling now and say, I
am more than the fact that I didn't have a
birthday party for my kid. I am more than the
fact that I can't travel. Whatever those things might have been,
and it could be worse, but this sucks. I'm glad
you shared that because it does feel like you know,
we've had this conversation on the podcast too as it
(13:55):
relates to grief, right that it feels like, Okay, some
people have lost loved ones and so of course that
feels significant, but there's also space to grieve all of
these other losses that we've experienced this year as well. Yeah, definitely.
So it's really normalizing and saying, you know, I've told
all of my clients that you're leveling of anxiety. If
it has gone up, do not interpret that as personal failing,
(14:20):
like what is wrong with me? Why can't I just
cope and remind yourself like this is entirely unexpected, There's
no one way to go about this, and therefore I
may actually feel more anxious. I think biologically, you know,
understanding what a pandemic is and understanding that your life
could be threatened in some form, you're going to be
(14:42):
on higher alert and that's just normal. Mm hmmm. So
what about Dr Hajj for people who already had concerns
about like germs and contamination and stuff, right, and now
we have this pandemic that is real, right, that there
is a real concern about contracting things you what kinds
of um suggestions would you have for people or what
(15:03):
does that work look like? So I have to admit
I did have some clients circle back to me and
be like, remember all that stuff you're telling me about her?
I was right, right, and you know, to some degree
we we had to laugh about it, just like we're
laughing now. And I was like, you know what, I
hear you, And you know, you may be very equipped
(15:24):
with your stash of chlorox wipes right now. However, what
my guideline has been, are you remaining at least within
the CDC guideline. So if the CDC said, you know,
do X, Y and Z, I would encourage you to
do that. But if you're doing that times twenty, that
still maybe an indication of anxiety feeling your behavior not
(15:45):
what we know to be true. So what I have
sort of talked about is just level of comfort and
functioning and letting people sort of help me and collaborate
with me around what feels comfortable to you so okay.
For example, if the CDC said six ft with masks
is okay, if I have clients who are telling me,
you know, I'm not really feeling that. It hasn't been
(16:07):
my place to say, well, you need to do it
right away. It's more so me saying, okay, but what
do you feel comfortable with, Let's work with that. I'm
not interested in seeing you now isolate yourself for the
next five months, you know, are you interested in eight feet?
Can we work with that? So it's more so being
flexible and not not me taking a heart and fast
(16:27):
stance on what is rational versus irrational, but kind of
working with people's comfort and challenging them when possible. Mm hmmm, yeah,
I mean, and it does feel like, you know, some
of that is so much in the air, right, I mean,
because it is still a chance. And I know when
you were with us the first time, you talked about
like the Envivo work that you would do right like
(16:49):
so maybe you would be walking on the sidewalk with
your client, and so I'm curious to hear how that
has changed or shifted for the virtual environment, like are
you still able to do some of that stuff? So well?
I definitely even of myself will I mean I have
suspended sessions in person a for comfort, be for convenience
and having family members that I have to take into consideration.
(17:12):
And also my office was like we would have been
backed on the walls with masks, not just think therapy
sessions like that would be awkward. But I have done
some virtual somewhat in vivo, more around getting people out
of the house, not necessarily into public, but in particular
if a client is concerned about just outside air exposure,
we may challenge that notion and say, well, let's do
(17:34):
a walk around the block. I'm not asking to talk
to anyone. I'm not asking you to socialize or touch anything,
but let's sort of re establish that what feels safe
and what isn't safe. And you know, Dr Hodges, that's
the thing that I am most concerned about is how
many of us even recover after the pandemic, right, I mean,
(17:54):
like you already mentioned, we don't have any in date.
We have no idea really how long this is going
to go on and when it will be safe to
kind of re engage, And so I'm curious to hear
if you already started thinking about like what kinds of
things we will need to kind of readjust to once
you know, the pandemic is not, you know, in full
swing like it is now. Yeah, you know, I have somewhat,
(18:17):
And I'll admit that I even refrain a little bit
from being to future focused because I will start the
what IF's, like oh my gosh, what about this and
what about that? But I have considered how this impacts
the way we socialize what we consider necessary versus unnecessary.
I see the extremes. I see people rushing to return
(18:38):
to quote unquote normal and you know, be at large gatherings.
But I think it has really, in the beginning at
least made to sort of reevaluate our activities and the
meaningfulness of family time and like being very choosy about
the things we're doing. So my hope is that we
don't make a dramatic shift of like Okay, everything's fine
(19:00):
now and we don't wash our hands anymore, because that's
probably not the way. But I think ultimately it's going
to be a learning curve. I think that, you know,
I'm not an expert, but moving slow and just asking
yourself what feels good to me and how can I
get my needs met in a way that appears to
(19:20):
be safe. Mm hmmm. Yeah, we've talked about this too,
just in terms of like school openings, right, um, you know,
and kind of reminding yourself that you have agency over
what happens for you and your children. You know, so
even though the school system may be open, if it's
not something that you feel comfortable with and you have
the option to, you don't necessarily have to send your
kids back to school. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that
(19:44):
kind of falls into like boundaries work, which although my
specialty is anxiety, I'm really interested in helping my clients
feel the better for lack of a better term, whole
all around that they're they're operating an agency. So really
you have to kind of evaluate what are my boundaries, Like,
like you said, maybe school might be open, but this
might be I might be making a move to a
(20:04):
different alternative style of education and not allowing other people
to necessarily make you feel bad about that. That's your
It's your choice. It's always been your choice, and this
is a great time to enforce those boundaries and maintain them. Yeah,
it feels like something else that has been coming up
in terms of boundary work is around making decisions about
like attending gatherings for family and friends. Right, So, you know,
(20:27):
some people decided to cancel weddings. Other people have decided
to go forward with, you know, weddings and birthday parties
and stuff like that. So it feels like there's some
boundary work that's been tested for people around like how
to say no or if you want to go, how
do you keep yourself safe? You know? So it does
feel like these are continuing exercises and boundary setting that
we didn't have to think about a year ago. Yeah, definitely,
(20:49):
And it allows you to see for yourself, Like you said,
there's always work to be done. I think I was
happy even been you know, confronted with some of those
things people saying like, oh, well, why don't you just
see this and having to say like, because I don't
want to. Yeah, reminding ourselves that it is always our
(21:10):
choice are at least in most cases usually. Yeah. So
the other thing that we've talked about a lot as
it relates to kind of managing throughout the pandemic is
the importance of routine and predictability, and we know that
a lot of that has kind of gotten up ended.
So what suggestions do you have for people who may
be trying to figure out steal, Like, what does routine
(21:32):
look like right now? Oh my gosh, I'm so glad
that you asked that, because I did a podcast interview.
I believe sort of like right maybe a month into
Social Distancing UM and even some posts. So I do
believe in routine, but I have to admit that this
has challenged me to be even more flexible. So I
(21:53):
sort of like, keep a routine, do these things, and
that's what I thought, like, this is gonna last ninety days.
And now in my own life, I have my routine
has been upended multiple times for multiple reasons, and I
believe the one thing that has kept me is the flexibility.
So instead of being so rigid to say, here's my routine,
(22:14):
this is what I do every single day in this manner,
I have to be open to the fact that if
it doesn't happen for one day, it's not shocked. So
not doing the all or nothing, black or white thing,
or maybe realizing that I'm going to institute something to
try to keep me on track and structure. But it's
only three days a week. I think sometimes we jump
(22:34):
from not having a routine to then saying I'm gonna
do this seven days a week. And I found that
my clients have really struggled with that and sometimes the
guilt of not being consistent. And I've talked about, Hey,
if you would like to wake up at a certain time,
even though you know work car as we log in later,
let's shoot for that time. Let's set an alarm. But
if you don't wake up and it is not consequential
(22:56):
to you, meaning like you know you're gonna be in
trouble at work or fired, then ask yourself what do
you need? So if you want to wake up at
seven and you need to log in at nine and
you wake up at seven thirty, it's not worth the
energy to be like, oh my gosh, I should have
woke up at seven. I'm messing up. My routine is shot.
You just say maybe I was a little tired today,
I'm glad I'm up now, and then I'm gonna shoot
(23:18):
for seven tomorrow. You know, have the grace to be flexible. Yeah,
the grace piece is important, right, I mean, because like
you said, so much is unpredictable, and we think we
wake up and have an idea of what the day
is gonna look like, and then something happens in the
day is completely different. Correct, especially those of us who
are at home with other people to consider, be that
(23:39):
other adults or even children. You know, we have to
understand that while things quote unquote look normal, you know,
we have our back to school or back to work,
this is not how we were doing things before. So
it's not going to flow the same and may not
be the same. And as I said before, I know
uncertainty and anxiety can go hand in hand, but I
(24:00):
think perspective shift as well is really important to say,
you know what, I have a couple of things that
I really need to get done, Like I'm gonna prioritize
today and do my best, but if everything else changes,
I can go with that. I can buy that wave
as well. Mm hmmm, So I know, and you're right, Like,
I also doing interviews and stuff very early on talks
about the importance of the routine, and you know, it
(24:23):
feels like there are some parts of that that we
do want to at least make an effort for because
it feels Like what I often hear people talk about
is like this sense of like you have no idea
like what time of day it is, right, so it
just feels like hours move into hours and you're like, oh,
it's midnight, and like what did I do today? Right?
So I think that that's a part of why, like
(24:45):
some of the routine is important, but if not a
routine are there are other things that you would suggest
for helping people to kind of demarkeate like what's happening
from day to day. Definitely, So I often have an
encouraging class to have something to look forward to at
the end of to day, whether that is a semi
ice cream like dessert or even like we're mentioning, you know,
(25:05):
watching that show then you've been looking forward to at seven,
but sort of realizing like this is a sort of
like a start, middle, and ending of my day. The
in betweens may look a little different, but sort of
like having a cap If people do have a work
from home space, I encourage people to try to keep
doing their work in that space so then when they're
(25:28):
done working they can kind of not have that association
and the rest of their home if possible. And then
also you know, I know a lot of us work
really hard. But if it's possible choosing like an end
time to be working or doing homework and then tell
yourself this remaining time is for me and me only,
not to have everything spilling into each other, because I
(25:49):
think that is the fastest way to wake up and
be like, what's today? What am I doing? You know,
I found that even for myself. I have clients, I
have a schedule, but I do catch myself being like
today like Wednesday. I don't know, because it does feel
a lot, you know, like the same day over and
over again. Mm hmmm yeah, I like that. So you know,
(26:11):
it doesn't really matter as much what happens in the middle.
If you can have like a clear beginning and a
clear end, that helps to frame it at least a
little m m. Yeah. And you already mentioned like setting alarms, right,
I would imagine some of that might be helpful too,
that not that the alarm is necessarily indicating that you
have to do something, but that it is alerting you too. Okay,
this is the time where we want to wrap up
(26:32):
work or we want to start the work day. Yes,
I also have recently been suggesting so For some of
my clients who are teleworking and have a fairly involved
schedule or work demands, I've been suggesting, like, make a
couple of random alarms to remind yourself to go take
a walk around the house or around the block. If
you feel comfortable, go get some water, just take a
(26:55):
step away, because you can kind of fall into that
tunnel did in And then, like you said, you look up,
especially now with the season changing and the light daylight
savings depending on where you are. I don't want you
to look up and be like, wow, it's dark. I
don't even remember did I eat lunch? I'm not sure.
I think that can be really destabilizing. Mm hmmmmmm. So
(27:19):
something else. So a couple of other things that I've
I've noticed people talking about people are really struggling with sleep.
So there's like an increase, it feels like in insomnia.
So people are up either kind of scrolling on social
media or watching the news or you know, doing different things,
and they're talking about having trouble actually falling asleep at night.
(27:40):
You have suggestions for people about how they can do better,
maybe or do a little bit better and maybe falling
asleep at night. Yeah, for sure. So that is definitely
a challenge that I couldn't admit that I've also had
that challenge just because it's so easy to stay up
and like you said, scroll or think about things. If
you were to have a routine at all, maybe around
(28:01):
bedtime would be really a great time to sort of
the institute and give your body and bring some signals
like okay, here are the few things that I do
before bed, Like I turned off the TV for a
little while. I try not to be activated by the
screen because the screen is a really big interference with sleep.
I think we all knew that, but we're really seeing
(28:21):
it now with maybe we're doing like computer work, phone time,
TV time. Our brand is just like what next, what
we're doing next? And I think ultimately you have to
give yourself a little bit of time to start to
decompress um from the screen. If possible, put on the
I can't remember what the mode is called on my phone,
(28:42):
but just like you know, it decreases the light. I
would encourage people to kind of put that setting on
so that helps your brain sort of decompress a little bit.
But also just having like a quick matine. It doesn't
have to be elaborate like a bubble bath and massaging
and with oils, all these things, but it can be
a quick one too. Threes with three things that I
do before bed, and I kind of rest. This is
(29:05):
why I think if you can have a workspace you
know that's not working in your bed, you don't have
that association of like the bed or the bedroom is
very potentially stressful or this is the time where I
do all the thinking, so that I would encourage people
to try to keep that space reserved for sleeping if possible,
but also give yourself again. Grace is my favorite word
(29:27):
during this time, because I've had a lot of people
telling me about getting really tense around I'm looking at
the clock and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm still
awake on they have three hours now, Oh my gosh,
I'm never going to go to sleep. And I tell
people those are sleep interfering thoughts. And although this sounds paradoxical,
one of the easiest things that you can do when
(29:48):
you are coming up on like I get up for
a couple of hours is to say that's cool, I'm
just gonna stay up all night. And most of my
pasts are like what I don't want to do that.
Why would you tell me that? And I'm like, because
at that point thinking and are saying that to yourself,
your brain actually gets less interested in what time is
it and stop sort of saying like I'm never going
(30:11):
to get to sleep, and you actually kind of just
relaxed into the idea of like, all right, I'm gonna
be up and you usually fall asleep. Mm hmmmmmmm. Are
there other paradoxical thoughts that you think could be helpful
for people right now that you've maybe even suggesting more often?
So I'm like big on humor. That's just my personality stuff.
So I think sometimes when my clients comes to me
(30:31):
and discuss like some of the feelings of guilt that
they may be having or it could be worse. I'll
kind of give an example. I think I was discussing
around like caretaking, how it can be difficult to care
for your family um in a way that maybe you
were doing before the pandemic, and you know, I kind
of got a little bit facetious and I was like, yes,
(30:52):
you're a really bad caregiver, Like your children don't ever eat,
they sleep outside. And then we sort of laugh because
I was like, no, you know, you have to recalibrate
your concept of what a caretaker is right now. Like
my mom before pandemic, probably maybe it was like making
homemade muffins and doing all these things. Pandemic mom might
(31:13):
not have time for that, and that's okay, yes, So
really readjusting those baselines and challenging your idea of the
value judgment of what a good blank is. A good
mom does this, a good friend does this, a good
daughter does this. And it's sort of like, okay, who
made that rule? Was it was it you? Because if
(31:36):
it was you, then you were at liberty to change it.
I like that. So the other thing that has been
giving people lots of anxiety is the upcoming election. Oh
my god, all right, I mean I have the anxiety myself.
I mean so I think lots of people just feel
very anxious, very worked up, especially at least I find
(31:57):
myself getting more anxious when I see the countdowns, like
we only have twenty five days left and twenty three
days left, right, and it it's like, oh my gosh,
like we're counting down to this thing. Um, So, what
kinds of things you know might you offer or any
suggestions you have for people who are struggling with anxiety
as it leads to the election. You know, as an expert,
(32:19):
I am going to say that this one is tough.
This is when I reflect on the idea that I
often show with my clients, like I deal with these
things just as much as you do. And ultimately that
is when we talk about like the healthy levels of
escape or boundaries or limiting your exposure to things. So
(32:42):
I have found that I have really decreased how much
I'm reading about the elections. Sometimes I will admit it's
at the risk of being uninformed because I realized that
I will over incorporate. At times, I will go hard.
I'll be like, I need to read this article on
this one and this one, and now I know too
much so to speak. So yeah, I don't have a
(33:04):
great answer for you. I will admit that that is
stressful myself included. When I see things like coulmdowns, I
will close the window. And the one thing I will
say that I've told myself is I'm going to do
what I can which is in my control, and exercise
my right to vote, and I'm I'm going to try
to be hopeful that other people exercise that, right, and
(33:25):
that is the most that I can do in this moment,
Like that's the most that I can bring myself to
deal with. Mm hmmmmmm, Yeah, I agree. I mean it
definitely feels like I will fall down a rabbit hole
reading stuff right and paying attention to the news. And
you have to remember that the news really plays on
the loop, right, So the story that you get if
you watch the news at one o'clock is the same
(33:47):
thing that you're gonna get at three o'clock, but you're
not necessarily paying attention because like the anchors might change, right,
So if you're looking at something like Seeing It or MSNBC,
it feels like it's a slightly different story because it's
a different maybe panel of guests or whatever, but it's
still the main point, like they're discussing the same things.
So I think that it does help to kind of
limit like, Okay, I'm gonna check in a little bit,
(34:07):
but I don't need to have seen in on the
whole day. Oh definitely, I watch at a clip because,
as you said, the story just recycles itself and I
don't need to hear it four times. And then also,
the one thing I tell people because I do have
some people share with me like, oh, you know, I
keep it too gong because I don't want to miss anything.
In the age of technology and social media and alerts,
(34:28):
you will not every time there is a breaking news
so to speak, it pops up somewhere some way. So
don't sort of buy into this concept of like I
won't know what's going on. You will know if anything
big happens, you will know. So let it come to you.
You don't have to go look for it, right. I
think even the term breaking news, right, like do you
(34:50):
have to know it the moment it happens? You know,
Like there are some things you know safety wise you
may need to know, like a fire alarm or whatever,
but you know the latest story out the White House
or whatever, like it probably is not going to be
detrimental if you don't know it the moment that it happens,
exactly if it's an emergency, you'll get an emergency aler
on your friend. Right, So what does overthinking and like
(35:16):
the what if game you've already alluded to that, what
does that look like now in the midst of the pandemic?
Like how when you were here before you talked about
like playing out the wood if game. How does that
look different? Now? Oh my gosh. So I often joke
with my clients when we start going down the what
if hole, like I'm like, here right now, I just
won't let you know that I believe that there are
(35:42):
so many what ifs in the harder card I have
to admit is that some of them stopped real. So
you know, sometimes we're like, oh, what if this? And
what if the earth explodes? And I'm like, okay, you know,
come on now. However, some of the what ifs I've
heard lately, I'm like yeah, And sometimes I just sit
(36:02):
with it and say, what if that would happen? Like,
let's talk about it a because it's exposing you to
this feared idea anyway that I want you to sort
of play out because most often then that I can't
speak for every single one if of course, right, but
more often than not, you would be able to manage
(36:24):
that what if. So I'm not talking about something like
very devastating to some extent, but for example, if you were,
you know, maybe in an industry that feels threatened by COVID,
and you notice that your hours were reduced and you
think like oh my gosh, what if my place of
employment closes, which is a scary thought and a very
realistic one. Instead of sort of looping on what if
(36:46):
it closes, what if it closes? What if it closes,
I will sit with someone and say what if it closed?
What will we do and get them to sort of
a confront the thought and talk through how would I
seek out another job? I f or underneath it is
maybe I'll be destitute and I won't have anything. And
again legitimate, if you can't work, how would you earn income?
(37:09):
But I want to talk through, like we said before
your agency, what is your ability within this situation and
what would you do? And oftentimes we are able to
say like that would really be awful, and I would
update my resume and I would look for something else,
and I would do X, Y and Z. Now I've
helped you problem solve in a way that was useful
to you, not overthink, which is just an ineffective style
(37:31):
of problem solving. Yeah, So when you can kind of
get down to like, Okay, these are the resources that
I have available, this is how I might act, then
it takes some of the sting really out of all
of that overthinking absolutely, because usually overthinking doesn't land on
a solution, it just lands on like a lot of
(37:52):
information and over incorporating. And the idea is that your
brain is trying to problem solves, just a little stuck
or confused. Yeah, mostly because you don't have all the information, right,
I mean, because we're trying to future focus and our
brain doesn't have the We don't we can't feel in
the blinks. M Yeah, I agree. I agree. So what
(38:13):
are some of the favorite or maybe if you have
a favorite right now exercise that you would suggest for
somebody who is struggling with overthinking or you know it's
just struggling with like overwhelming anxiety right now, what kind
of technique or strategy have you been sharing that you
find clients really enjoy or is super effective. Oh that's
a good one. Two things come someone. One which I
(38:36):
believe I mentioned on the first podcast is it's just
a classic is grounding because it is so easy to
fly into the future mentally, and it's so easy to
be overwhelmed or consumed by physical sensations of anxiety. So
my go to is just let's take a step back,
let's sit down, let's pay attention to our five senses.
(38:57):
Take some deep breaths. What are some things in the
room that you see here potentially smell or feel, meaning
you know, I feel the sensation of my body in
the chair, I feel my shirt. But really working to
get yourself into the present moment as much as possible
and just sort of like be mindful of it's exercising
(39:20):
a muscle in your brain. What I mean by that
is it's very easy to be carried away by our thoughts.
And by coming to the present, by sitting still, we
are basically training ourselves to say, no mind, come back thoughts,
come back to the present moment, and just be instead
of anticipate your fear. And I would say the second
(39:43):
thing that I've suggested to people is scheduling worried time.
So we are all worrying, myself included about lots of
different things. And if you find that you are worrying significantly,
or to read that the worries are spilling into most
moments of your day, I would say I would like
(40:05):
you to pick a time, preferably not before bed, because
that is not a good idea. But maybe let's do
three o'clock in the afternoon. Get a pen and paper
and just jot down some of your worries for about
ten twenty minutes. Max. I don't want you to have
like a book when you're done, but shot down some
of the worries that you have. And what this does
(40:27):
is a it gets them out of your head a bit.
But also if you start worrying at seven, you have
to tell yourself, I need to let that pass. I'll
write it down tomorrow at three, when my schedule worry
time is because of what that does is that helps
you similarly to ground and bring your mind back to
the present and say, there are some things that I
(40:47):
worry about, but I don't have to let every single
thought take me away. I don't have to let everything
that pops into my mind set me off. I'm going
to table that and I will worry about it tomorrow.
It sounds strange, and when people practice it, they tend
to enjoy it. Yeah, that definitely is one of my
(41:07):
favorite as well. Um, And you're right, like it sounds
like something you would be really hesitant to try because
your first thought is that's not gonna work, right, But
it is something that after you practice for some time,
you recognize like you're providing a container for yourself. You're
helping yourself to think, Okay, this is when I will
do that thing, and it doesn't have to spill into
every area of my life, right, yeah, exactly. Thank you
(41:31):
for sharing those, So any additional resources that you'd like
to share. You gave us a ton the first time
you were here. But I don't know if there are
other books, are you know, podcasts or videos that you've
come across that you really feel like would be helpful
for people who want to maybe dig more into this now. Honestly,
those have still been my go toos. I've just been
(41:53):
I have a document, just a copy paste the ones
that I recommended before I essentially send them to everyone
after the first session, like copy pace. Here are some
things that I recommend. Uh Yeah. And the other thing
that maybe I can think of is I found this
graphic recently and I have to look it up who
(42:13):
created it because I want to give them a proper credit.
But I talk a lot about thinking styles, meaning getting
people to step back and an examine what is my
perspective and how am I seeing things? And is this
point of view possibly distorted? And I found a recent
graphic that gave these thinking styles actual character names like personifications,
(42:36):
and I believe it's probably intended for children, but it
works for all ages. So for example, when I talked
earlier about having that guilt and people saying like, oh,
I should be doing this or I should be doing that.
In the thinking styles graphic, it's called shashrrnda. I love it.
(42:58):
I know I've been doing this is something like Sharondo,
you know, lives her life in this way, and even
if no one told her to do it, Shendo feels
like she should be doing it and it makes her
feel bad. And I shared it recently with a few
people in a group and they were like, oh my gosh,
there's so helpful. So when I get that information, I
will share it with you specifically because I think it's
(43:19):
really cool. In it it sticks in your head and
you're like, I'm being a Shanda, right, Uh, this is
not helping. Yes, And those kinds of little techniques and
tricks are really helpful to kind of get yourself out
of that negative self talk right like you can catch
it and then it gives you a little chuckle like
you're doing right now exactly exactly. Yeah, Yes, I appreciate
(43:40):
that yet, we will definitely find that and make sure
to share it with everybody in the show notes, So
remind us how to contact you, Dr Hodge. What is
your website as well as any social media handles you
want to share? Yes, if you would like to find me,
my website is www dot Slay your Anxiety dot com,
which was definitely inspired by the Slayer Anxiety podcast, So
(44:04):
right on on trend there. And if you also would
like to follow me on social media, I'm on most platforms.
We'll see Facebook, Instagram, Twitter at helped me Hodge so
h E L P M E H O d G
E perfect. Well, thank you so much for visiting with
us today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. It's always
(44:25):
always a great time when we're together. I'm so glad
Dr Hodge was able to join us again today. To
learn more about her and her work, or to check
out the resources she shared, be sure to visit the
show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash
Session one nine, and don't forget to share this episode
(44:46):
with two other sisters in your life who might appreciate
the conversation. If there's a topic you'd like to have
covered on the podcast, Please admit it to us at
Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash mailbox, and if
you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure
to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black
Girls dot com slash directory. If you want to continue
(45:07):
digging into this topic or connect with some other sisters
in your area, come on over and join us in
the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a deeper dive
into the topics from the podcast and just about everything else.
You can join us at Therapy for Black Girls dot
com slash y c C. Thank y'all so much for
joining me again this week. I look forward to continue
in this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,
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