Session 194: Helping Kids Cope

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M H. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,
a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all
the small decisions we can make to become the best

(00:21):
possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard
and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more
information or to find a therapist in your area, visit
our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While
I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast,

(00:42):
it is not meant to be a substitute for a
relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks
so much for joining me for such a one of
the Ape for Black Girls podcast. We know that the
world has been quite unpredictable and anxiety provoking for many

(01:06):
of us as adults. Well the kids in our lives
are experiencing this as well. To share some light on
how to talk with kids about the things that have
been happening and how to best support them is Doctor
Earl Turner. Dr Earl is a licensed psychologist and university
professor in Los Angeles. As a media psychologist, he writes
a blog called The Race to Get Health and often

(01:28):
contributes as a mental health media expert for outlets such
as Oprah Magazine, The Washington Post, Bustle, and NBC News.
He's also the host of the Breakdown with Dr Earl podcast.
Doctor Earl served as the President of the Society for
Child and Family Policy and Practice a p A Division
thirty seven and is the first African American male to

(01:51):
be elected to this position. Doctor Earl and I chatted
about how to start difficult conversations with kids, the impact
of such an uprooted root teen, and things to consider
a post pandemic, how to recognize if the kids in
your life need additional support, and some of his favorite
coping strategies to teach kids. If something resonates with you

(02:12):
while enjoying our conversation, be sure to share with us
on social media using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's
our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today,
Dr Earl. Thank you for having me. It is an
absolute pleasure man. You know, Dr Earl, you know you
and I are a p A friends, fellow Louisiana friends.

(02:36):
Because it's always great to have someone on the podcast
that there's a previous history with. But I would love
for you to start by talking with us about the
work that you do with the Race Research Lab. Yeah.
So I started my lab a couple of years ago
after I transitioned into an academic setting. So prior to that,

(02:56):
I was working as a licensed psychologist and providing some
thesis the children and families. And I got into academia
again because I really wanted to continue being able to
do research, but also trained the next generation of clinicians,
specifically those that are going to be working with more
gineralized communities. And so my research in my lab really

(03:17):
focuses and on a spectrum of things alleged to understanding
mental health, more recently focused on the black community and
really understanding what are the connections between understanding racism and discrimination,
but also how just living in America can be stressful
and traumatic and traumatize it. And so really integrated all

(03:38):
of those things into my research to understand what are
those connections to poor mental health outcomes, but also what
are some of the resiliency factors that might contribute to
things within the black community in terms of connections to
religious spirituality, and even more recently understanding how can activism
be actually a source of social support to prevent some

(04:00):
detrimental outcomes for to mental health, and so those are
the areas that my research tends to focus on with
my lab. You know, Dr Earl, I am curious if
you even know where to go based on this last year, right, Like,
there are so many things it feels like you could
study next. Are there things kind of particular to the
pandemic or the racial unrest or everything that we've seen

(04:22):
in this past like eleven months that you're thinking you
want to study next? Yeah, you know, that's a really
great question because one of the things that I just
did recently was actually create a new website Therapy for
Black Kids, and the focus really is to address some
of the mental health challenges with kids and offer resources
to parents. In addition to that, I really wanted to

(04:42):
explore how has the pandemic impacted the black community, and
specifically thinking about black kids and you know, being at
home and dealing with the stressful environment. From that, the
challenges of of maintaining relationships are lack of relationships, and
so some of the is that I'm hoping to explore
from research is really just sort of understand how the

(05:05):
black community has been able to cope with the stress
over the last year, and specifically with the pandemic and
the racial unrest, which can be an additional stress or
how have we been able to really maintain some sense
of wellness. So we know that the data that has
been coming out in the last couple of months has

(05:25):
really shown that individuals have experienced a lot of stress
and even more stress, anxiety, depression over the last year
than the previous year. And so we know that the
impact of the pandemic as well as racial unrest has
impacted individuals. And on top of that, we know for
the black community, one of the challenges are concerned and

(05:45):
you know this as well, is that we oftentimes don't
want to seek therapy for a number of reasons. And
one thing that adds to that is in the pandemic,
people may now want more preferences to work with someone
on that looks like them or that's from their community,
and so that adds another challenge to that. And so
those are some areas that I'm hoping to look at

(06:06):
in terms of how does sort of racial increases of
injustice and communities then shift preferences for working with different
types of providers. Oh, that is going to be such
needed work and I would love for you to talk
just a little bit about how you think our kids
are doing right. So, you know, we know that we,
even as adults, are struggling with isolation and loneliness and

(06:29):
being disconnected from our support system in a lot of ways,
and I think that that's magnified for our kids. So
can you talk a little bit about how are the
things that you're seeing relationship kids as it relates to
isolation and some signs that we might look out for
for the kids in our life, about whether they might
be struggling with like something like depression or anxiety. Yeah,
those are really great questions. And you know, I'm not

(06:51):
seeing clients right now, but from what I hear from
a lot of my colleagues that are they have been
inundated with requests for services, and I'm sure you've probably
experienced the same thing. But just looking at some of
the data CDC or Sentenced for Disease Control as well
as Mental Health America and the American Psychological Association, you
know a lot of organizations are trying to examine this

(07:12):
right now, and what they found, specifically related to kids
is that kids are reported a lot of concerns over
the last year, So the stress of school. So think
about schooling at home where you're stuck in the house.
You may be dealing with siblings, but you can't you know,
do all the things that you used to do for fun.
But then these expectations about sort of maintaining yourself in

(07:35):
that space for an extended period of time. Whereas in
school they can go out and maybe have recess, they
can get breaks, they can move around the classroom, but
when you're stuck at a computer for a significant amount
of time, that's really difficult. We also know that for kids,
specifically those that identified within the l g B t
Q plus community, that those youths are also experiencing increased

(07:56):
difficulties related to isolation, even dealing with coping, just sort
of not having safety at home for a lot of
those kids, and so increases from concerns about suicidal thoughts
and depression within that particular unpopulation. And so those are
a lot of challenges that we are seeing related to
difficulties that kids are dealing within. Obviously, parents or the

(08:18):
first resource oftentimes to make sure that a child gets help,
and they do need to know what are the size
that their kid is struggling and so I think some
of the things that are oftentimes talk about with parents
is really trying to notice these specific changes in mood
or behavior. And so if you notice that your kid

(08:38):
is usually even tempered, but now they may be more
frustrated or sort of on the edge all the time
or irritated, that may be a concern that something that's
going on it and now you need to seek out
a therapist. We also know that difficulties with with sleep
or a major concern. And so are they having problems
with you know, sleep on set or falling asleep at

(09:01):
night because maybe they're working and stressed out and so
their mind is constantly going are they waking up in
the middle of the night or not sleeping enough. Those
are gonna be some additional things that might sort of
warrant parents to be like, Okay, I need to go
see what's going on with my child and get them
some support. Yeah. You know, this brings me to another
question from what you're saying, Dr Earl, is what level

(09:23):
of awareness can we expect young children to have, maybe
versus older children, Like I have a four year old
and I am sometimes shocked by the things that he
will say, like related to the coronavirus, and we largely
like try to keep him away from like the news
and stuff like that. But I'm still shocked by the
level of awareness that he sometimes has. So can you
talk a little bit about that, like what kinds of

(09:46):
things he is maybe experiencing or even aware of related
to everything that's going on. Yeah, that's a great question.
I think. You know, kids, regardless of if they or
a young child or if they're a teenager, they tend
to be very aware of what's going on. And one
thing that I oftentimes talk about with parents is that

(10:06):
they may not communicate that awareness to you, but they
observe things in their environment. They may not be watching
the news with you and hearing about some of these
things that are going on, but they realize when they
can't go out as much, and they can't go, you know,
see Grandma, Grandpa, and they can't spend time with their
friends and go to sleepovers, and so they're like, hey, before,

(10:27):
what's going on? Right? And so they will begin to
navigate those spaces in ways that they can't either by
acting out or exhibiting things in terms of anxiety or
or sadness that I sort of mentioned before. But kids
tend to be very aware, and so one thing that
I think is really important is that you do like
a check in with your child and before you even

(10:50):
jump into an explanation about, you know, talking about let's
say the pandemic and what we're dealing with, is just say, hey,
how are you feeling what's going on and out of
your head and give them that chance to really communicate
that to you from their own developmental perspective as opposed
to us as an adult or parent trying to say,
how do I help my child make sense of what's

(11:13):
going on and how things have changed since they were
you know, a year or two years ago. Yeah, that
definitely feels like it is important. You know, we often
hear right about letting the child lead because a lot
of times, like you mentioned, they do know a whole
lot more give them credit for us. So really just
allowing them the space to kind of talk about what
they know before you even share what you're wanting to

(11:34):
talk with them about. Yeah. Yeah, so you know, we
are fresh into February, but January was a doozy, right,
so you probably have seen like the means and stuff
about the four Wednesdays in February. So we went from
an insurrection to an impeachment to the inauguration and then
the Wall Street issue, right, And so it feels like,

(11:55):
even as an adult, it is really hard to kind
of wrap your mind around like the rapidness us with
which the news changes. And so I'd love to hear
just about like how much we should be sharing with
our kids. You know, some older kids, I think even
though younger kids like you alluded to, can still be aware,
but you know, some older kids, you know, like have
their own mobile devices, and so they are kind of

(12:17):
like keeping abreast of like what's happening in the news
for themselves. So how do you talk with the kids
about like these rapid cycles in the news. Yeah, you
touched on so many important points. One of those, I
think kids have access to these devices, and so they
may be on social media and reading or seeing this
information and you don't even know it. I wouldn't even

(12:38):
say now. I feel like even some younger kids have devices,
and so obviously like monitoring access to things. That's really
important for parents. Because I have a niece who's eight
years old, and she has a smart phone, and she
knows some things about you know, like these games on
on there that I had no idea, you know, how
detailed and like sophisticated those and there's a kid game,

(12:58):
but it's right, it's very complicated, like, oh, she's teaching
me about that. And so I think parents really do
need to have an awareness about what apps their child
having the phone and and sort of you know, monitoring
their use of it from that perspective, but also just
sort of being able to when you have a child
in the home, is being mindful about how much exposure

(13:19):
to this news that they do get, because if you
know your parents who let's say, as your child sitting
with you watching the news every day, are occasionally that
some of that news may be really difficult for them
to process. And so are you taking time to like
reflect after those situations with your child to really get
a sense about how they understand and make sense of

(13:41):
the world and what's going on, or do you just
you know, turn the television off and it's tough for
dinner or forbid, and so now they have all of
these stuff, you know, going on inside of their head.
And so I always recommend that parents are really intentional
about the amount of exposure that they give that child,
you know, to the news are these types of events,
so limiting the amount of television um that they watch

(14:04):
and getting exposure to those things, or even if you're
engaging in a piece of protests or rallies that use
sort of or prepared to talk with your child about
those experiences and have them have a sense about what
the importance of engaging in this action is to even
changing you know, some of the injustice that is occurrent,

(14:26):
so that they're just not going to these events and
potentially getting exposed to like witnessing, you know, more traumatic
things that might be sort of stressful. So I've recalled
several situations where I see in the news, you know,
a child and apparent altogether at these rallies, and all
of a sudden there's a sort of incident with the
police officer and the officers like pointing the gun either
at the parent of the child or or someone else,

(14:47):
And so that can sort of re traumatize kids after
just witnessing these things, you know, through the media. Yeah,
and you know, I know that I'm sure that you
have been paying attention to this, you know, given your
life experience and because of your research interests, we know
how the pandemic and all of the racial unrisk is
disproportionately impacting black and brown communities, right, and so it

(15:09):
feels like again as adults, there are these issues that
we're having to deal with just in terms of you know,
grief related to lost loved ones related to the pandemic,
loss of employment. You know, there's all this research coming
out about how many Black women specifically have like left
the workforce or been unemployed. And so I would love

(15:30):
to hear just about how you think that, like black
and brown children are being disproportionately impacted due to everything
that's going on, and where we might go once. You know,
some schools are already opening up, but maybe more of
them will be opening up, you know, in the fall.
So I love to kind of hear about how you
think they're being impacted now and what might we expect,

(15:52):
you know, when schools maybe open again in the fall.
Ye more from Dr Earle after the break. I think
one of the things that is really important is for

(16:13):
parents to sort of sit with themselves and recognize how
they're doing and how they are coping with everything that's
going on. And the reason I think that's important is
because kids are watching and so they're going to see
how you respond to these incidents. And so I think
this is a really important teaching opportunity to model for

(16:35):
kids how do you navigate these types of experiences. Obviously,
you know, a pandemic happens, you know, every couple of
years or decades or so, but they're going to be
life experiences that are going to be difficult and they
have to sort of understand how to to cope with
those things. And so I think sometimes parents want to
shield kids from these experiences and not talk about it

(16:56):
or not allow the child to see how they handle
things emotionally. And I would say, you know, do it
in a healthy way that you're demonstrated for the child
how you respond to those incidents. And so I think
one of the things that has come up a lot is,
you know, kids are dealing with similar situations as their
parents or the fallout of those situations. So as you

(17:19):
sort of mentioned, if a parent has lost the job
and maybe sort of dealing with that. Obviously, it can
go many ways in terms of it provides opportunities for
you to be you know, more president and be at
home with their child, but it also may be additional
sources of stress for you in terms of like how
do you financially support the family, and so kids may
sort of witness some of those changes as well. I

(17:40):
think the other thing that I sort of touched on
earlier is about how kids are navigating this home school
and stuff. For those that are at home, you know,
over this time or even sort of I know some
schools are split in the time where they like it's
a tend school and like these cycles or whatever, and
so I think for those situations, like it can be
really disruptive. Two routines quote unquote, and so what we

(18:04):
know for about kids is that routines in structure is
really important for them in terms of their overall development.
And so the pandemic makes it very difficult for us
to have routines in structure. So even to the point
and you know, for others and things that I've seen
on the media, like people don't get dressed up for

(18:27):
certain things, So like for a kids, you get dressed
from like the waist above, and you know for kids
as well, they may just you know, have their prejama
bottom zone and are joining the zoom class with like
a T shirt or their uniform shirt on something like that.
That's a huge routine shift. And so I was reflecting
on this earlier and just sort of thinking about when
we do go back to whatever this new normal is,

(18:52):
is how do we sort of help kids but also
ourselves to be able to shift all of these habits
that we've developed over the last year. And so it
will take some time for parents if you haven't you know,
kept some sense of like routine of what life was
like before the pandemic, and obviously you know things are

(19:12):
have to be changed to some degree, but you have
you're gonna have to readjust you know, once this is
all over, and so being able to get them in
the schedule in terms of like waking up in the
morning and things like that, wants we return back to
those sorts of situations. Thinking about relationships for kids, I
think there has been some research that has really talked
about the importance of connection and for kids, you know,

(19:37):
traditionally they spent a lot of time in the classroom
or in school settings where they're around their peers navigating
all of these sort of relation on things that are
really important to teach social skills that apply to us
as adults. And so I think those things are also
gonna be somewhat challenging for kids, specifically for those kids
who let's say, maybe shy or maybe anxiou is and

(20:00):
have difficulties with performing up to others and having conversations
and talking to their peers. Now they may potentially struggle
more with those concerns once we saw the transition back.
They may need some addition to support or even a
therapist to be able to work through some of those
social skills challenges and anxiety. Yeah, you know, as I'm
listening to you, Dr Earl, and even with other conversations

(20:21):
with other gifts, I am just so worried about the
mental health load, even on the other side of the pandemic,
even though we don't know when that's gonna be. I mean,
so we know, you know, systems are really stretched thin now,
like you already talked about, right, Like people are wanting
to connect with the therapists, and a lot of therapist
case thows are already full, right, and there is going

(20:43):
to be I think and even more even more of
a need for mental health support to kind of help
with this readjustment, right, Like I even myself feel like
when am I actually gonna feel like it's okay to
really be back outside, you know. And so you know,
as adults, if we're thinking that, I am sure that
kids will be thinking some of that too. And so

(21:04):
I'm really worried about, like what kinds of mental health
supports we're going to even have available on the other
side of this to help both the adults and the
kids to kind of cope with this new normal exactly.
And I think the other piece of it, and you
sort of touched on this briefly earlier about sort of
the impact of the insurrection at the Capitol, and so
I'm also curious about how does that, in addition to

(21:28):
these somewhat challenging I'll say, relationships across race that can
be difficult to navigate that even now after what's happened
with you know, Brianna Taylor and George Floyd this past summer.
That now that also makes it potentially more difficult for

(21:48):
kids and in parents obviously to feel comfortable working with
the therapist that is not from their community or that
does not look like them, because there may be um
awkwardness in terms of that relationship piece and being comfortable
talking about things, and does this therapist who is not

(22:10):
a person of color have a anti racist sort of
a viewpoint, and it can be able to sort of
work with them and understand their situations that they're going
through and how that can be can be and I
stressed that an additional challenge for how they navigate the world.
And if the therapist is not able to have some

(22:31):
recognition about that and be comfortable talking about some of
those racial challenges, then I think that also makes it
difficult for those parents and families to now connect with
that therapist to be able to do the work that
they need to do to heal mm hmmm, yeah. I mean,
if I'm not mistaken, one of the people who actually
was like arrested after being in the Capitol was a

(22:54):
school therapist. Yeah, and then people in many different you know,
repass that were involved in that's it's like who can
you trust exactly? And we already know that there was
such a huge issue in the mental health field already, right,
and so now we have even more evidence of why
it may be difficult to trust some providers absolutely, And
so I'm hoping that you know, as people had all

(23:16):
these conversations last year around sort of being anti racist
and things like that, is that people continue to do
their work and advocate for change. So one of those changes,
as we've been talking about, is lack of providers, but
also lack of supporting schools related to counseling and therapy
and even just sort of identification for kids. And so

(23:38):
are people going to be able to advocate for policy
changes and communities to make sure that they are putting
money into schools so that they have the resources to
be able to even screen kids for these mental difficulties,
because sometimes parents may not have the money to be
able to take their child to go get an assessment
or to check in with the therapist, and so or

(24:00):
school is going to add minimum have the resources that
they need to be able to do school based while
screening to see like what are the risks that we're
dealing with in terms of these kids, and then can
we get them to support that they need in terms
of what therapists or some referrals. Right, Right, So I
want to go back to something you mentioned earlier, Dr Earl,
in terms of like debriefing after maybe you've taken your

(24:21):
kids to a rally or something, or even debriefing after
the insurrection, right, Like I definitely had no clue what
to tell my children about, like what was happening, and
so I would love to hear, you know, if you
have any thoughts or like resources or things that parents
could use to have conversations with their kids about like
these things that have happened. You know, that's really important.

(24:42):
And so I've been doing interviews around sort of talking
kids about race, you know, for years, definitely more so
in the last year, given all of the injustice that
we've experienced it because I think for me, we're always
going to be talking about racing some capacity. Unfortunately, because
this country was built on systems of oppression or or

(25:05):
systems that have oppressed, I would say until we are
able to be in a society where those systems no
longer engage in these oppressive and discriminatory practices, that we're
going to have to have conversations like this. And so
I think we need to to talk about it. Because
we haven't talked about it, then that means that we
keep going through these cycles because people are not wanted

(25:28):
to have conversations. And so if you can't talk about it,
how can you move forward and be able to heal
and develop better policies around preventing some of these continued issues.
So I think that parents should have those conversations with kids.
I think one, as we mentioned before, being able to
start off with the check in, I like parents to

(25:48):
take some of the stress and anxiety off of themselves
about talking about these things, and so don't feel like
you have to have the answers to everything. And we know,
like little kids specifically are gonna have a lot the questions,
and so I think you know, started off with just
checking in, having the child really communicate what they think
about the situation. One that just gives them opportunities to

(26:11):
work on their own expression of their feelings and emotions.
But then it also provides an opportunity for you to
really see what understanding does your child have and or
their things or misinformation or myths that you maybe need
to address with your child around sort of race and
why some of these things you know, are occurrent in society.

(26:33):
On the other piece of it is then that you
as a parent can be able to sort of shape,
you know, talking about these racial experiences from this racial
socialization sort of perspective that we talk about as you know,
psychologists and researchers about the importance of having conversations with
kids about race that can be connected to challenges around

(26:58):
understanding sort experience a sense of racism, but socialization around
race also focuses in on talking about the positive things,
and so Black History Month can be one example where
you are talking about contributions of black people to the society,
and so I think those sort of giving a child
of opportunity to to look at race from this holistic

(27:20):
perspective where that it's not always about negativity and all
about you know, being mistreated because of your skin color,
but you can have healthy conversation to talk about the
positive benefits being black, for example. And so when incidents
like the insurrection happen that you don't want to just
sit and talk with your child about all these negative things,

(27:40):
that's in those difficult conversations with them sort of highlighting
ways to decompress. So maybe as a family, you go
for a walk, or you watching funny movie, or you
talk about what are the positive good things about being black,
and those can sort of help balance kids and being
able to sort of cope with that. And then one
resource that is out there that are authentised refer parents

(28:01):
too is a PA. The American Psychological Association has a
website around resilience and also talking about race, and so
if you go to a p A dot org slash
r e s, you'll go to their resiliency website and
there are lots of resources there for parents about how
do you have these conversations around race as well as

(28:22):
looking at it from developmentally if a child is five
versus if a child is you know, seventeen, how can
you talk about those conversations differently? So there are some
twols there as well. I appreciate that, you know. So
something else that I've heard, Dr Earl is that, yes,
there are of course a new set of stressor is
related to like lots of kids home schooling, But my

(28:42):
understanding is that lots of kids also feel less stressed
by not being at school right, so, you know, things
related to like bullying and school shootings. Like I've read
stories of parents sharing how their kids feel safer at
home right and don't have to worry about maybe something
happening at school. Cool, And so I'd love to if
you could share kind of any thoughts about, like, you know,

(29:04):
just again when schools maybe open up in the fall,
how maybe even some of that may be difficult because
now there will be this reintroduction to a space that
isn't always so safe. I think, you know, one of
the things that's really important is again going back to
this having these conversations with kids. I think one thing
that we I think traditionally thought about as kids as

(29:26):
like kids can be kids. They can just sort of
play and they don't get stressed out, and that's not true.
They do get stressed off about a lot of different things.
And so I think having that talk with kids to
prepare them to go back again, it's this sort of
opportunity to engage in this discussion but also give them
some tools that they can use to be able to

(29:48):
make the transition I say, back to school easier for
those that may you know, have been you know, experiencing
believing or even just have an anxiety about being in
school or about taking tests and things like that that
you can plan and so having a plan for how
do you deal with these emotions is really helpful. Having
them identified, you know, who is a person at school

(30:11):
that they can also be comfortable talking with, so they
can be another peer. Maybe that that's a conversation for
them to just have a friend that they can have
a connection with, or it may be a teacher or
an adult who they can maybe you know, check in
with if they are being bullied or if they are
anxious or worried about things at school, that when those

(30:32):
feelings start to arise, that they can say, Okay, this
is my chicking person, so I can go talk to
Mr or Music so and so at school to be
to help me with the situation. Whether that's now they
can step in to intervene if that situation is occurring,
or sometimes kids just need a safe space to be
able to sit with this person or to talk and

(30:53):
those things make them feel at ease. And so I
think it's about as parents, you know, talking with the
child about what's going on with them or what things
they may be concerned about related to uncertainty and develop
a plan that's going to be helpful for them to
make that transition back. And obviously on the other side
of that can be you know, getting them support through

(31:14):
a therapist. That might also be helpful to to talk
with them and that's a different relationship that might be
helpful to give them additional tools as well. If it
is you know at the level um that warrants them
working with with the professional. We'll be back with more
of this conversation after a quick break. You know something

(31:43):
else dfter, Earl, that I think you alluded to earlier.
There has also been news just about like suicide rates
again increasing and much younger people, right, And so you know,
I know that that is something that a lot of
parents just have no idea about it. How do I
you know, if we're are going talking to them about
the news, how would I ever talk to them about suicide?

(32:04):
So I'd love to hear some thoughts about like how
to kind of maybe pay attention to that and how
you might be able to talk with your child about
like any suicidal thoughts they might have. Yeah, that's a
really important question. I mean, there's been a lot of
research that has shown suicide rates increasing, and you that
specifically in black youth, and so I think for a

(32:27):
long time in the black community, we've sort of had
this viewpoint that suicide doesn't touches us and in terms
of like we don't engage in those types of behaviors.
But the other piece of it is that you know,
people are uncomfortable talking about suicide in general, but also

(32:47):
with kids. Because they feel like, now I am going
to like put things in their head and they what
may what may encourage them, you know, to engage in
these types of actions. And so I think the first
thing is really for parents just sort of get comfortable
having that conversation. And we know that when you talk

(33:08):
with kids about these things, it doesn't make them at
an increase of risk for engaging these behaviors. So just
sort of put that myth aside. And then I think,
you know the other things that are really just sort
of being aware of some of these born in signs
that come up. And so if you witness things with
your child in terms of changes, let's say, for younger

(33:31):
kids that may engage in drawing or coloring, like if
you notice that they're drawing things about someone dying, you
know frequently, so things of death commonly come up, and
kids that may be suicidal, those maybe some things that
you may be concerned about. If kids verbally express, you know,
that they're going to kill themselves or they want to die,
you know, those maybe additional concerns. And I think if

(33:53):
that does happen, that parents should respond to that with
don't say that, because then that now makes them feel
even worse about what they may be dealing with. And
so I think it's a matter of if they say that,
then to say, you know, why are they feeling that way?
So ask that question, and then that gives you more

(34:14):
information to be able to say, Okay, this is what's
going on in in their life and society that may
be contributing to these suicide of thoughts. These are also
red flags to let me know that now I definitely
need to reach out to get some support and seek
therapy for my child. Other signs that may come up
for kids, and this can be across the spectrum feeling

(34:35):
hopeless and so feeling like nothing is never gonna change,
nothing is ever gonna be better, and they may actually
say that, And so I think recognizing those types of
things when they happen to then say okay, we need
to you know, possibly you know, go seek out my
therapist if they feel like they are being like a
pain or or you know, making other people feel bad

(34:56):
or stressed out. So on this this sense of like
being a burden you know to parents or others, that
may be a really important sign as well. And honestly, again,
things like you know, sleeping, sleeping too much, feeling tired
or exhausted, or even being irritable and angry all the time.
Those maybe some addition of important signs related to sort

(35:17):
of risk around suicide. So something else that we've talked
about a lot with adults is just the grief you know,
that a lot of us have experienced this year, but
I think we often missed that kids, of course also
experienced grief. Can you talk about how that might look
different for kids, and maybe even something around you know,
like how do we talk to kids about things like

(35:38):
death in the grief that we've had in this past year. Yeah,
some of those similar things that I sort of mentioned
with suicidrist can obviously you know, as a psychologist and
for mental professionals, we know there's a lot of overlap
in terms of these symptoms for a lot of different
conditions that may occur. And so if the child is
you know, always you know, tired of sleeping too much

(36:00):
in relation to the loss of a loved one, but
also thinking about and I just had a podcast on
this recently, what or the other losses that they may
have experience that they can also be grieving. And so
I think that's another dynamic that we don't oftentimes think
about with kids in in relation to grief, And so

(36:20):
are they grieving the loss of you know, not being
able to go to parties at school, you know, for holiday,
So for a lot of young kids. You know, I
remember growing up and we would every holiday we had
a little party in the classroom. Everybody brought some candy
and things like that. So be even the loss of
those experiences that they may not be able to have
anymore because of of COVID and the restricts around like
washing your hands and wearing mask and those types of things.

(36:42):
Be even losses around important milestones for kids that may
be transition in the middle high school and being able
to like join clubs or activities like the marching band
or the the dance team. Those maybe changes that may
be loss even thinking about graduation and transition and you
know to college and being on campus. A lot of
universities are not in person right now, so those may

(37:04):
be some additional losses that kids may grief as well.
So in terms of just sort of recognizing some of
the differences. Obviously, as I mentioned before, younger kids demonstrate
a lot of their emotions through their behaviors and so
if they are you know, not being feeling like isolating
themselves from a lot of people, that may be something

(37:25):
to sort of checking on if they're getting on drawing,
you know, themes about debt related to individuals that may
be another sign are related to grief. You want to
be able to to talk about their experience is related
to like funerals. So if someone close to them did pass,
did they have an opportunity to talk about what that

(37:45):
was like for them? And and one of the things
that so that we've seen differently now is that not
as many in person funerals are occurring for a lot
of individuals, so kids may not have opportunities to get
some of that closure. And so how do you talk
with them about that and really honor the person that
they may loss and start doing activities with them around that,
you know, maybe keeping a memory box where they write
down memories of that person and can be able to

(38:08):
sort of you know, hold onto those things. So I
think having those types of rituals can be really helpful.
And obviously it's important to consider, you know, again, when
a therapist might be necessary to do these things. So
I don't want parents to have that assumption that they
have to do all of these things to have that
child coke, because now you also may have to take

(38:28):
on some of those emotional things and obviously be concerned about,
you know, the well being of your child, and that
can be difficult for you to even process in addition
to processing everything else. And so you know, being comfortable
to talk with the child or to talk with someone
so that you don't have all of that responsibility. Going
back to this I did about sort of routines with

(38:48):
kids when there is grief, So how does that change
their routines? They may not want to engage in school
work anymore. And so if you notice that the child
grades or declining, that maybe a function of you know,
they're dealing with grief and so they don't have the
energy of motivation to do these particular tasks, and so
you want to look at, you know, sort of schooling
changes that may occur in relation to grief as well.

(39:12):
And then some of the things that I've discussed before
about you know, kids can be really irritable as a
response to grief, and so feeling mad all the time
and angry and upset may not always be like there's
an anger problem with the child, maybe they're dealing with
grief or even sometimes anxiety comes up as being anger,
and so I think for parents to recognize that when

(39:32):
the child may be exhibiting some of those types of emotions,
is that you want to sort of check in to
see what's underlying that. Yeah, that's really important. Dr Earl,
Thank you so much for that. You know, so you
talked about this a little earlier, but we often hear that,
you know, kids are resilient, right, like they can kind
of bounce back. But I think we can't just say

(39:53):
that without like also giving them some skills and tools
to be able to bounce back. So you've already talked
about like going on once with your family or maybe
watching funny movies. Are there other coping things that you
would offer for kids to be able to help them
to deal with like some of the difficult experiences that
they may be experiencing. Absolutely well, I think you know.
I'll mentioned another website for parents, the National Child Traumatic

(40:17):
Stress Network. So if you go to n c t
S in dot org, they have some resources there for parents,
and like these brief little handouts and tool sheets that
might be helpful for a number of different things in
terms of grief for example. So I think some of
the ways to really sort of cope with these types
of experiences is we can go into this sort of

(40:39):
therapy sort of perspective. Again, how about how that might
be helpful, but just sort of helping kids with changing
the thoughts that they utilize. So what is the child
telling themselves about this sort of moment and moving forward?
So if they are always negative about this pandemic is
never gonna end. Or I don't want to go to
school virtually because I you know, I'm not going to

(40:59):
be with to learn as much i'm here, or just
having other thoughts about you know, I hate myself because
of X y Z that you want to try to
help kids to reframe that. In one way, I think
to do that is really encouraging them to use positive
self talking, so you know, having them express things differently

(41:20):
about the situation. So what is it that you can
pull from the fact that you you have to you know,
do do schooling, you know, at home or at the
computer and saying, you know, I can do my best,
and so those little things matter. It may not seem
like it does, but we do know that your thoughts
have a huge impact in terms of your mood and emotions,
and so those little things can be really helpful for kids,

(41:41):
I think trying to make sure that they also get
breaks and exercise and so obviously that can look differently
for kids and families, but I think we know that
you know, making sure that if a child is doing
schooling and say at home, is that you try to
give them some breaks. You know, I would say, went
into thirty minutes of sitting and working, then they might

(42:03):
want to get up for you know, ten fifteen minutes
to do something, to move around, and obviously in different situations,
so I want to you know, acknowledge that that if
a child is you know, required to sit you know,
for an extending period of time, then there may be
limited wish to how to get around that. But if
they're doing like you know, a synchronous work where they're
working independently at a computer, you do want to create

(42:26):
some sort of structure for them to be able to navigate,
to navigate that so that they can you know, not
get so overwhelmed and not so to stay seated well
a really a long time, and then you know, engage
in some sort of physical activity. I think is another
strategy that self for stuff. Maybe it's a family thing
that you do going for walks, or you do some exercising,
but if not, then try to get the child to

(42:47):
do something. You know, are their spaces that are safe,
given you know some of the limitations around COVID, that
they can get some activity, because we also know that
physical activity also helps with mood regulation and if if
a person is able to get some physical activity, it
regulates some of the brain chemistry. Without getting into a
long conversation about that, but physical activity is really helpful

(43:10):
with mood regulations, so that that can help to elevate
mood and prevent kids and maybe get into this on
a deep sadness and possible depression that they may experience
as it. Well, So those are just a couple of
things that might be helpful. Thank you so much for that,
and we will of course include all of that information
in the show notes. Well, Dr Earl, can you tell
us where people can find you? I know you have

(43:31):
an incredible podcast that you've already mentioned, so can you
tell us your website as well as any social media
handles you'd like to share? Absolutely, So, I again want
to thank you for having me on to talk about
this really important topic. But um, you can't connect with
me on social media at Dr Earl Turner. Can also
check out my new platform that I mentioned earlier, Therapy

(43:51):
for Black Kids. I'm excited about this, you know. I
started Therapy for Black Kids because during the pandemic, and
some referred to as a double pandemic, we're dealing with
COVID as well as racial injustice, I felt that kids
were being left out of the conversation, and specifically Black kids,
and as we know, they may have some challenges in

(44:12):
terms of getting access to care, and so I wanted
to create Therapy for Black Kids as an opportunity to
provide resources to parents so that they can one know
about some of the things that we'll talk about in
terms of wanting signs related to two stressors and mental health,
but also to provide you know, resources for families around

(44:33):
healthy development and and focusing in on socialization because we
know that those are really important to resilience and well being.
There would be a lot of resources that would be
helpful there in terms of how to help kids navigate
these experiences. And you can also check me out on
on Facebook as well at Therapy for black kids perfect well.
Thank you so much for all of this today, Dr Earl.

(44:54):
I really appreciate it. Thank you again. I'm so glad
Dr Earl was able to join us for today's conversation.
To learn more about him and all the incredible resources
he shared. Be sure to visit the show notes at
Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session and please
text two sisters right now and tell them to check

(45:15):
out the episode as well. Don't forget that if you're
looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to
check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls
dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue
digging into this topic, are just be in community with
other sisters. Come on over and join us in the
Yellow Couch Collective. It's our cozy corner of the Internet

(45:37):
designed just for black women. You can join us at
Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C.
Thank you all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continue in this conversation with you
all real soon. Take get care

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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Session 194: Helping Kids Cope