September 29, 2021 • 36 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
We’ve talked here before about the importance of having our identities affirmed and celebrated in all of the ways that looks, and joining us today to discuss what that might look like as an Afro-Latina woman is Dr. Luisa Bonifacio. Dr. Bonifacio and I chatted about where to get started in exploring your Afro Latina identity, some of the challenges related to colorism that arise, particularly between generations of Afro-Latina women, media depictions of the community, and she shares some of her favorite resources for finding community.
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https://www.drluisabonifacio.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a
weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the
small decisions we can make to become the best possible
(00:22):
versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
(00:43):
is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
for joining me for Session to to seven of the
Therapy for Let Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the
episode after a word from our sponsors. We've talked here
(01:15):
before about the importance of having our identities affirmed and
celebrated in all the ways that looks, and joining us
today to discuss what that might look like as an
Afro Latino woman is Dr Louisa Bona Facio. Dr Bona
Facio is a licensed psychologist in New York with extensive
experience working within city hospitals, community mental health centers, and
(01:37):
the Veterans Affairs Medical Center. She enjoys working with clients
working through trauma, racial cultural, gender identity and it's impact
in our daily lives, challenging family dynamics, imposter syndrome, and codependency.
She's a graduate of Teachers College, Columbia University and has
previously held teaching positions at John Jay College of Criminal
(02:00):
Justice and Teachers College, Columbia University. Currently, she enjoys working
with clients in her private practice in Brooklyn, New York.
Dr Bona Facio and I chatted about where to get
started and exploring your Afro Latina identity, some of the
challenges related to colorism that arise particularly between generations of
Afro Latino women, media depictions of the community, and she
(02:23):
shares some of her favorite resources for finding community. If
there's anything that resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,
please share with us on social media using the hashtag
tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so
much for joining us today, Dr Bona Fio, thanks for
having me. It's excited. Yeah, I'm very excited to chat
(02:47):
with you. So I wonder if you could just start
by telling us what do we mean when we're talking
about people who identify as Afro Latina. To me, the
identity is really based in the awareness that your heritage
is based in the crossing of the two worlds, the
black identity and the Latina identity. And to me, that's
(03:09):
whether you grew up in a country that's Latin or
Spanish speaking really is irrelevant more about do you identify
and are you aware that somewhere along the line there's
blackness in your lineage and your family history, and so
there's an awareness there and that's part of your history Dominican.
And I think a big part of like Dominican culture
(03:33):
is to deny the blackness of it, at least in
the way I grew up. To many extents now, I
think there's huge political and social structures in place to
keep Dominican folks from knowing their black history. And I
think that's a very common experience across many Latin American countries.
(03:54):
For me, the Afro Latino identity is like this awareness
that there's no like purity in that right, Like it's
all a big mixed mass, and a big part of
that was the slight trade and also the backroom general
folks who were already on the islands in those countries,
(04:14):
and so just having an awareness of that identity, you
know that heritage is really important. So to me, that's
how I think of it. M hmmm, yeah. And it
feels like my short answer guests as to like why
that has been denied is like white supremacy, right, and
like trying to make anything closer to whiteness the right answer.
But I wonder what that is like, because it definitely
(04:36):
seems like more people are talking about being Afro Latina now.
It sounds like even from your personal experience, it is
not something that maybe is talked about a lot, and
like the information is passed down from generation to generation.
So what are you seeing now? And people who maybe
are talking more about the Afro Latina experience, are there
some struggles related to not knowing that piece of the
(04:58):
history and like would it mean to like now had
that awareness and want to embrace it. Coming to that
awareness is not without a large amount of inner conflicts
and the turmoil I think because you grow up in
family sometimes actively denying that identity, your black history. I
wasn't born here, so when I came to the state,
(05:20):
it was really my first confrontation with identity, and so
you know, I came to be very confused and conflicted
about where did I fit in. I think presentation wise,
people can look at me and say, oh, she's miss
I heard that growing up a lot, and so I
didn't really understand what that was. And so I think
(05:42):
right now, because the history of America is very much
this consciousness around race, you can't help but like be
after Latina and like not be confronted by it, and
so like you have to kind of deal with it.
And I think part of that is really navigating being
what you've been told about who you are and like
(06:03):
actually what it's like to hold those identities. In this country,
particularly last year with a lot of the protesting and
the George Floyd, it forced folks to really confront who
they have come to believe they are. As much as
I think you can try and kind of avoid and
say no, I'm not black, I'm Dominican. That's a really
big thing. It's sort of like, well, no, like you can't,
(06:28):
you can't do that, Like that's not how this works.
To answer your question, it's not without a lot of
internal conflicts that come to that identity. Yeah, so the
comments you just made, like I'm not black, I'm Dominican.
What do you think, like if we peel back the
layers behind that, like what's typically underneath that for people?
I think it's word supremacy. I think for Latino folks,
(06:49):
using the Latino identity sometimes can be like a distancing
from blackness, right, because we've been told that blackness is
similar to the things that folks grow up within the States,
like black is not great, fixt your hair. Coming to
terms with what we've been told about blackness is all
b s. It takes really confronting them, like your identity
(07:11):
right in the fabric of Latino countries is white supremacy
and internalized racism basically, And so a lot of that is, like,
you know, you have to confront like what we've been
told about our identities and who we are. There's nothing
wrong with having pride in your nationality, right, and so
I wonder if you can talk about or give some
(07:33):
suggestions for how people can kind of maintain that pride
but also explore what it means to be black. In
addition to this, I think that there's room for both
for us to celebrate our culture, our language, our food,
our music, and also I think make room for all
the things that we haven't been taught to celebrate. Right, Like,
(07:54):
there's a lot of ancestral practices in terms of spirituality
have been stripped away from land X folks, and so
exploring that, right like, that's how our ancestors were denied
their identity to connect to their blackness, to their connection
to Africa, and so kind of making room for that too.
Write this really great woman, this dominic women who started
(08:17):
this like hair salam for curly hair people in d
R and now in New York. Is an example of
celebrating that we have this like amazing multifaceted hair. And
you know what, I think a lot of Dominican identity,
Latin identity is to try and like really tame down
and processed and like fit into this idea of the
(08:40):
whiteness of what's accepted in identity. And so celebrating all that,
celebrating just practices that I think historically in our families
weren't labeled this is from our black heritage, and so
connecting those two is really important. And really being curious
and like being willing to have conversations. I think that's
another thing that gets lost is having conversations without our
(09:03):
families about oh, how come we do that? How come
you know, like we say this, you know, this saying
or this prayer. I grew up with an aunt who
was very much into and that's like an African kind
of way of practicing spirituality, and I just thought of
it as like that's her thing, but that that was
her kind of practicing, like you know, ancestral ways of
(09:24):
healing and ways of praying. That in our family we
never really discussed, We never labeled like that. We just
saw her as like she's just being weird. Yeah, And
I think, you know, if I think about like just
conversations intergenerationally for black women, I would imagine that they
are the same kinds of conversations with a different flavor
right in Latina communities. And I'm wondering, like you've already
(09:47):
talked about like how your aunt practice you know, this
particular piece of spirituality, and like what some of those conversations,
like do you see a lot of tension between like
granddaughters and their grandmother's about maybe the grandmother does not
identify as Afro Latina, but the granddaughter does, right, And
so what are some of the things that come up
in like some of those intergenerational conversations. Yeah, for sure,
(10:10):
that's very much in the reality. I think for now,
the Latin next generation who's like coming into more awareness
and more empowerment with other blackness, is really confronting and
sitting with the family conflict that comes about when you
own that identity. I have two small children. They're very
black and have hair that is just beautiful and curly,
(10:33):
and so a lot of it has been around like
being mindful of the language that my family uses around
hair around them, and so really saying like, there is beautiful,
tell them that it's beautiful and how amazing it is.
That's something that now is very present, and so it
can lead to conflict. It can lead to distancing. You
can lead to a lot of feeling like you don't belong.
(10:55):
And so what you think is family, what you think
is being proud of your Latino experience. Now it's like,
wait a minute, you've been impressing me and confusing me
all these years, and so it can be pretty sad,
I think, and confrontational of like what you think, what
you come to believe family is where you come to
(11:16):
believe what your role and your identity is. But those
conversations kind of need to happen, and particularly thing around
for me anyway, like around children, it's like, well, no,
we're not going to do that. You know. Colorism is
a huge thing too, and so policing that and comments
about being too dark and talking to my grandmother about that.
(11:40):
I think at this point I kind of have to
enter it knowing you know, she's like about to be
her nineties. Like I still have a conversations, I still
say my truth. But it's a very delicate dance, I
think because for a lot of us, family is so important.
It's like such a huge part of the Latino experiences
having strong family connections, and so it's a complicated one
(12:02):
and I don't have a good answer for it, but
I know that it's one that is not without a
lot of tension and questioning. M Yeah, And I know
that you have worked with clients from lots of different ages,
and a lot of your research has been on Latina
college students, and I'm wondering, like, in the work that
you've seen, we know how important identity is to mental
(12:23):
health and how some of those identity challenges can impact
our mental health. Can you talk a little bit about
what kinds of things have come up in your work
as it relates to your identity and mental health. Yeah,
for sure. Part of my initial research and identity and
mental health was around the messaging that particularly Latin us
get in college around making career choices. And so what
(12:47):
messages are we getting that either help us feel confident
in the choices you're making or not confident in questioning?
And so we found not surprising. And I think this
extense to anyone marginalized is you know, when you're in college,
and depends on the college setting, but when you're college
(13:10):
messaging around well you show you want to do that,
or you don't look like you're going to be good
at math or things like that, like things like oh
you you speak really good English for latinow things that
internally tell us you don't belong, you don't fit in,
are you really smart enough? And so what that does
is gets you questioning and gets you readjusting and changing
(13:35):
your belief system around what you can accomplish and what
options are available to you. And like, I think this
applies to not just the Latin identity, but folks on
the margins of people of color, LGBTQ folks you get
these like microaggressions. These messages basically meant to make you
question your inherent talents, your skills, your capability. And it's
(14:00):
a sort of a way of gate keeping and limiting
folks to pursue things that would be fruitful and productive
and it would be amazing. And so I think the
focus on identity is so important, at least for me
the way I see it, the reason why I even
came into this field was because I can't tease apart
your mental health from your identity. Like to me, there entwined,
(14:21):
like the way you show up in the world, the
way you're treated in the world, the way people see you,
you've been told about who you are. All of that
affects every single thing. It affects the way your kindergaran
teeder talks to you. It affects the friends you make,
It effects the relationships you make. To me, identity is
everywhere and it affects everything. Yeah. More from my conversation
(14:44):
with Dr Boni Facio after the break, can you talked
a little bit of Dr Bonifacio about like your experience
as an effort letty a woman in like how you
have shaped your practice around that and how it impacts
the work that you do with your clients. Yeah, grad
(15:07):
school was kind of like the awakening moment for me.
I came into this field, I think wanting that moment
and wanting to first work within my community. I grew
up in Brooklyn. I grew up in really just diverse
and very nurturing kind of communities, and so I needed
to be a part of it. And this happened to
(15:30):
be the avenue that helped me get back in this way.
And I think grad school was one of those moments
for me, one being like the only black woman for
a big school like in New York, and so it
ended up kind of being one of those like, Okay,
I need to really know who I am because if
(15:51):
I don't, this place is gonna eat me up. Being
honest about my experiences was important for me, letting my
professors know, like, this is challenging. I don't when I
didn't have support letting people know, and so really creating
community was important for me, Like coming to terms with
like how I define my identity was really important and
(16:13):
it just so happened. My particular program was all about
we're going to teach you about identity and we're gonna
make sure you have the language for and that there's
a foundation around how you come to label yourself and
how to do this work with others so that there
isn't like a further marginalization of the folks, so that
(16:35):
there's an invitation. Okay, let's do this work together, Like
let's explore your racial identity, your gender identity, your sexual
orientation and how does that feel and what does that mean?
And how have the communities that you're entreated you because
of these identities. It was sort of like this parallel
process where I'm doing this work from grad school, but
then it's like my life too. Right then it's like
(16:56):
I need to evaluate my relationships and I need to
reevaluate like the your choices I made, And it was
a huge shift in like my reality and the way
I spoke about myself and the way that I spoke
about my communities that I think now allows me to
help folks find that language and feel empowered in their language,
(17:16):
feel empowered in their identities in their communities that I
didn't have before that I'm super grateful for and now
in my practice, what that looks like is helping folks
along that process a big part I think two of
my career journey has been figuring out who I am
in big settings, right like who I am is an
Afro Latina in in a hospital I was to be
(17:37):
a teacher in a school, and figuring out how those
systems really affected me and how those systems really are
forgiving for folks who are on the margins. And so
a lot of my work now is there's a lot
of support and a lot of making room and space
(17:57):
for folks in corporate America, out in big law, out
working for these big tech companies that are really trying
to find their voice and feel empowered in their and
their experiences. All that to say, it was sort of
like this awakening parallel process moment where as you know,
(18:17):
um entering the field, I'm also kind of like doing
a lot of inner work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds
like it. It sounds like it. I love the way
that you've talked about like doing your own identity work
while your program was teaching you like how to do
that and facilitate that for others. And I'm wondering what
that looks like in your practice. Like you've already talked
(18:38):
about some of the colorism and texturism issues that come up.
I wonder how you facilitate those kinds of conversations, are
unpacking those conversations for people who come to you with
those kinds of concerns, And what might you be able
to share with our community about how they might be
able to unpack some of those issues really to maybe
something like colorism and texturism. Yeah, for sure. I think
(18:59):
part of doing this work, genuinely and honestly is just
owning my identities to and making that president in the
room and having that be a dialogue with whoever I'm
working with, Like, what's it like to talk to me?
Particularly when I'm working with other black women and there's
for short differences in the way that we present, right,
So I know I'm fairly light skinned, and so working
(19:21):
with folks who maybe darker. Okay, what's it like to
talk to me about it? Are you worried about what
I might think? Like? How are you thinking I'm receiving it?
Kind of making it present in the relationship, because I
think part of the colorism conversation, what makes it really
challenging is when it isn't talked about, when it isn't
made present, it doesn't serve the conversation or progress, and
(19:45):
so part of it is in the moment and they here, Now,
what's it like making it very present and getting my
clients to kind of talk about what experiences they've had
with colorism and touchruism and how has that kind of
effect it their journey and their identity. And for me
owning like I'm here going on a journey with you,
(20:06):
and so my experience is not going to be your experience.
My job is to kind of like help me understand
your experience. I think owning my limits, owning what I
know and don't know, and kind of doing this work
collaboratively is important. Yeah, it's being super curious, Like it's
(20:27):
important for me to know like what language clients are
using to describe themselves and their communities, where they feel
they belong, where they feel they don't belong, What messages
have they been given about who they are and how
they present and how they've been made to feel other? Right,
and so the way I've been made to feel other
(20:47):
it is going to be different from other folks. And
so holding space and making room for all of those
versions is important for me in my work. But yeah,
it's a collect abortive conversation that is ongoing and part
of all the work that we do. Yeah. So we've
(21:08):
talked a lot about identity, and we know that much
of our identity is informed by media representations, right, and
so I'd love to hear your input about you know,
like media representations of effort Latina women especially and ones
that you feel like have like been done really will
and how that does impact our mobility to like figure
out who we are. Yeah. Oh boy. I think one
(21:31):
of the first latinos I saw on TV was a
detective on twenty one Jump Street, which I don't know
if that was like a national show, but it was
about these three detectives in New York. Oh, Malik Yoga,
wasn't it? Or yes, yes, yes, Torris No, Torrias was
(21:57):
the guy, rightnect was a woman. It was been on
there and I was like, wait a minute, she has
an accent, her skin tone, her hair. To me, I
think as a young kid, I was like, oh, she
looks like one of my thea's, like one of my aunts.
Like so that was like a mark moment for me
(22:18):
where I saw that. To be honest, there haven't been
that many that I felt like that connected to that
I felt represented my experience. There was also the show Scrubs.
The nurse on there, I forget her name, but she
was a Latina, and I remember feeling like, oh my gosh,
she sounds like the women I grew up with. She
(22:38):
sounds like my cousins. So that was one I think
When Orange is the New Black came out, there were
quite a few characters on that show that I felt
like were authentic, were very real. And then of course
now I think is someone I think very much in
(22:59):
the reality and in the social media space and to
space that I think I think she does a good
job representing after Latini that very authentic, Like there's a
confidence I think about her owning her identity that is refreshing. Sure,
and Cardi b I mean, she's out there, she throws
(23:22):
us English out there sometimes and she does her thing. Yeah,
But I think sometimes what I listen for and look
for in after Latina's out in the space is that
confidence I think that a mata has. But also like
the owning I think, particularly with colorism, the owning of
it that is missing a lot that is disappointing, honestly,
(23:47):
and so I wish there was more of a conversation
around that, around being in this space, but also like
knowing that our experience is a little bit different and
we have access are a different perception of us than
our dark skin sisters, and so yeah, some sometimes it's
a little disappointing. M hmmm, Yeah, I mean it sounds
(24:09):
like that was a part of like some of the
disappointment around In the Heights, right that you know, like
the film didn't necessarily represent like the community that it
was designed to be about. Yeah, yeah, sure, In the
Heights was one of those experiences. Was like, oh, it
was great artistically, but there's like a disappointing or longiness
(24:30):
for it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a need, I think
arrange of experiences that it's just not happening, and I
would think by now, it's come on, y'all, like come on,
like yeah, and I wonder have you seen anything on
(24:50):
like smaller scales, Like I feel like probably and I don't,
like I'm not in the TikTok streets enough to know,
but I feel like TikTok is a place where like
and Z and younger generations of like Afro Latinas are
probably creating community and like being that thing for one
another that they don't maybe see like in greater media representations. Yeah,
(25:13):
I just you know, you mentioned TikTok. I'm not in
these TikTok streets are Julia And I think she came
from YouTube shorts, like short videos. She is one that
I think is she has that voice that's very clear
and confidence and very pro black and like nose she's black.
(25:35):
That's another thing too. I think it's there's a difference
between after latinos now who are in this space, who
are are there and um like hold like physically the identity,
but then don't say it right then They're not like, yeah,
you know, I'm after Latina. This is why I am.
I think there's sometimes there's a hesitation to to like
(25:57):
come out and like label it that like you're still
kind of playing the white supremacy thing. And so I just,
you know, I think that sometimes happens out there in
these social media TV streets. But I know that she's
she's very vocal. She is getting a lot of Netflix stuff,
(26:19):
and she's on Instagram. There are a couple of others,
but their names aren't coming to me right away. But yeah,
I think now because there is a lot of language
for and there's just generally like there's a desire and
also like an impatience too. In the younger generations are
like enough, like enough long enough, Like I am tired,
(26:43):
this is who I am. I'm gonna find my people,
And uh, it's so great to see when I do
see it, and I'm excited. I'm excited for younger folks
to come and like, you know, break it down. M
more from my conversation with Dr Bonafice, see you after
the break. So what might that journey look like? Like,
(27:13):
let's say somebody finds our conversation a very young person,
let's say a sixteen or seventeen year old, and they're
listening to you and they're like, oh my gosh, is
this something that I have not been told about? Right?
What kinds of things might they want to explore? What
kinds of questions might they want to ask? Maybe parents, grandparents,
Like how do you get started with like figuring out
(27:33):
this identity journey? And what might that look like with
the support of a therapist. Oh, yeah, that's such a
good question. I think they extend to which you feel
you have access to family, like oral history, to get
super curious and to get super in people's faces. Okay,
so you know where were you born and where did
(27:55):
grandpa come from? And kind of just get start to
ask a lot of question times. I wish I had
done that when I was younger. I still do and
I still can, but it's sort of like, while you
have access to start to ask the questions. For me,
it was a little complicated because my family we immigrated
here and so we were just like surviving, Like we
(28:15):
were like, don't ask me questions, like we're trying to
pay rent, we're trying to get food. And so I
had to build community. I had to build community while
you know, going through school, outside of school, find folks
who you feel that connection with your community with, feel
like you share those identities with. It's super important. I
think without building that community, I feel like I wouldn't
(28:39):
have developed the confidence in my identity to explore and
to question and to be curious. And that's one thing
I would say, like, find your people, find your tribe,
find the folks that you feel connected to, and share
your curiosities with. What that would look like in therapy,
I think is kind of exploring what have you been
(28:59):
told about who you are, and what have you been
told about what you look like in your family? And
what messages were you given about that were the positive
messages where the messages that didn't make you feel good?
Who did you feel close to in your early family
like that made you feel safe in your identity and
(29:23):
so kind of identifying those things are important, particularly thinking
of that age group like late teens, early twenties, where
so much is happening developmentally identity wise, that you need grounding,
You need some folks to remind you like who you are,
and it's okay that you're struggling right now, It's okay
(29:44):
to ask questions. I think, particularly around that age group,
identity can be so confronted and so shaky that it
can lead you to kind of like experiments and do
things that maybe aren't so healthy for you. And so
those are some things I would recommend. And if you're
thinking about I think entering therapy, kind of enter it
(30:05):
with an openness and a curiosity as opposed to all
I know already right, kind of like being willing to
explore all the different ways that your identity has impacted
your life. I would say, yeah, yeah, you know, I
think one thing that often comes up when people start
doing this kind of work is shame, right like this,
(30:28):
I'm embarrassed that I didn't know this. Like what kinds
of things would you offer to people live that is
something that they experience in this journey? Yeah, you know,
shame and guilty like these two cool cousins not cousins, right,
because they keep you silent and they keep you quiet
and internalizing a lot of blame or responsibility for something
(30:49):
that isn't And so if that is coming up, that's
why I think to having community is important, like having
folks to explore those feelings and experiences with. Right, you're
not crazy, it's not like you're making it up. But
also super important to kind of like release yourself from
some of the like internalized negative stereotypes and the stigma
(31:13):
and frankly a lot of the internalized racism that kind
of happens, right, like thinking of ourselves as bad or
not good enough because I didn't know this, or the
family dynamic of their family history and culture is to
pretend that these things didn't make sense. How are you
supposed to know? Like, how are you supposed to know
(31:33):
those things? And so coming to terms of I didn't
know and I'm willing to learn. Is super important to
kind of silence those not so helpful thoughts and feelings.
It's okay to honor them, there's make space for them,
But to the extent that they keep you quiet or
isolated or distant, I would question that and kind of
(31:58):
see where you can kind of let all of some
of those things and find community around it. I think
Instagram does I think a good job of like you
can find your people. That way, you can connect, connect
to like communities and content creators and say, you know,
if you have a question or or things like that. Yeah,
(32:19):
super important, find find your people and find where you
can feel safe. Yeah, you've talked about the importance of
community a couple of times. I was going to ask you,
have you seen communities that would be good for people
who are wanting to learn more about this, Like, are
there certain hashtags that people can find on Instagram or
you know, on Twitter, or communities at certain websites or
(32:40):
podcasts or books that you feel like would be helpful
for people. Yeah. There's a really great Instagram account called
and Cultured Call, and I find their account to be
so awesome. I think, particularly for a flat is coming
to their like black identity. It's a space I think
where the energy and the dynamic is like we're very
(33:03):
much here to embrace our blackness and what that looks
like in our lives and kind of dismantle all of
like the stereotypes, messaging, stigmas, white supremacy, bs that we've
been told about black Latin Ida And so I think,
particularly when it comes to like the Dominican Haitian dynamics
(33:25):
and those things, there's a lot I think that needs
to like needs to happen that space and more of
seeing each other really as you know, as connected people.
I think because of the history of the island there's
so much and so that account I think there's a
good job of creating a space for both. Oh. I
(33:46):
just found this really great podcast bag Ladies with a
Z at the end, and there are these two for Latinas.
I think they're from the Bronx, and they just do
a really good job again of like like speaking really
authentically to the identity, to their experience creating a community.
I think around what it's like to walk around with
(34:08):
this complex identity and all the different spaces where you
may feel welcomes and then not right, and so they're
really great. They're great to listen to, and I think
for me or Resonates is like that authenticity, like being
willing to share their experiences and being honest about it
and inviting other people to like witness their experiences is
(34:31):
really great. So yeah, those are two that I can
think of right now. But that's a great place for
people to get started. And where can people find more
information about you? What is your website as well as
any social media handles you'd like to share? Yeah, I'm
not doctor there Luisa Boni Fascio dot com and my
Instagram is at my name Dr Lisa Bonni Fascio. I'm
(34:55):
not super active. I've been taking a little bit of
a social media right and just just for my sanity,
Mr Joy sometimes understandable perfect. Thank you so much for
all that information. Will be sure to include that in
this show notes. And thank you so much for she
and your expertise with us today. I appreciate it. Thank
(35:16):
you for having me. This is awesome. I'm so glad
Dr Bona Facia was able to share her expertise with
us today. To learn more about her or to check
out the resources she shared visit the show notes at
Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session to to
seven and don't forget to text two of your girls
and tell them to check out the episode as well.
(35:38):
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be
sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for
Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want
to continue digging into this topic or just be in
community with other sisters, come on over and join us
in this sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the
Internet design just for black women. You can join us
at community that Therapy for Black Earls dot com. Thank
(36:01):
you all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continue in this conversation with you
all real soon. Take good care.
Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a
weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the
small decisions we can make to become the best possible
(00:22):
versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
(00:43):
is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
for joining me for Session to to seven of the
Therapy for Let Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the
episode after a word from our sponsors. We've talked here
(01:15):
before about the importance of having our identities affirmed and
celebrated in all the ways that looks, and joining us
today to discuss what that might look like as an
Afro Latino woman is Dr Louisa Bona Facio. Dr Bona
Facio is a licensed psychologist in New York with extensive
experience working within city hospitals, community mental health centers, and
(01:37):
the Veterans Affairs Medical Center. She enjoys working with clients
working through trauma, racial cultural, gender identity and it's impact
in our daily lives, challenging family dynamics, imposter syndrome, and codependency.
She's a graduate of Teachers College, Columbia University and has
previously held teaching positions at John Jay College of Criminal
(02:00):
Justice and Teachers College, Columbia University. Currently, she enjoys working
with clients in her private practice in Brooklyn, New York.
Dr Bona Facio and I chatted about where to get
started and exploring your Afro Latina identity, some of the
challenges related to colorism that arise particularly between generations of
Afro Latino women, media depictions of the community, and she
(02:23):
shares some of her favorite resources for finding community. If
there's anything that resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,
please share with us on social media using the hashtag
tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so
much for joining us today, Dr Bona Fio, thanks for
having me. It's excited. Yeah, I'm very excited to chat
(02:47):
with you. So I wonder if you could just start
by telling us what do we mean when we're talking
about people who identify as Afro Latina. To me, the
identity is really based in the awareness that your heritage
is based in the crossing of the two worlds, the
black identity and the Latina identity. And to me, that's
(03:09):
whether you grew up in a country that's Latin or
Spanish speaking really is irrelevant more about do you identify
and are you aware that somewhere along the line there's
blackness in your lineage and your family history, and so
there's an awareness there and that's part of your history Dominican.
And I think a big part of like Dominican culture
(03:33):
is to deny the blackness of it, at least in
the way I grew up. To many extents now, I
think there's huge political and social structures in place to
keep Dominican folks from knowing their black history. And I
think that's a very common experience across many Latin American countries.
(03:54):
For me, the Afro Latino identity is like this awareness
that there's no like purity in that right, Like it's
all a big mixed mass, and a big part of
that was the slight trade and also the backroom general
folks who were already on the islands in those countries,
(04:14):
and so just having an awareness of that identity, you
know that heritage is really important. So to me, that's
how I think of it. M hmmm, yeah. And it
feels like my short answer guests as to like why
that has been denied is like white supremacy, right, and
like trying to make anything closer to whiteness the right answer.
But I wonder what that is like, because it definitely
(04:36):
seems like more people are talking about being Afro Latina now.
It sounds like even from your personal experience, it is
not something that maybe is talked about a lot, and
like the information is passed down from generation to generation.
So what are you seeing now? And people who maybe
are talking more about the Afro Latina experience, are there
some struggles related to not knowing that piece of the
(04:58):
history and like would it mean to like now had
that awareness and want to embrace it. Coming to that
awareness is not without a large amount of inner conflicts
and the turmoil I think because you grow up in
family sometimes actively denying that identity, your black history. I
wasn't born here, so when I came to the state,
(05:20):
it was really my first confrontation with identity, and so
you know, I came to be very confused and conflicted
about where did I fit in. I think presentation wise,
people can look at me and say, oh, she's miss
I heard that growing up a lot, and so I
didn't really understand what that was. And so I think
(05:42):
right now, because the history of America is very much
this consciousness around race, you can't help but like be
after Latina and like not be confronted by it, and
so like you have to kind of deal with it.
And I think part of that is really navigating being
what you've been told about who you are and like
(06:03):
actually what it's like to hold those identities. In this country,
particularly last year with a lot of the protesting and
the George Floyd, it forced folks to really confront who
they have come to believe they are. As much as
I think you can try and kind of avoid and
say no, I'm not black, I'm Dominican. That's a really
big thing. It's sort of like, well, no, like you can't,
(06:28):
you can't do that, Like that's not how this works.
To answer your question, it's not without a lot of
internal conflicts that come to that identity. Yeah, so the
comments you just made, like I'm not black, I'm Dominican.
What do you think, like if we peel back the
layers behind that, like what's typically underneath that for people?
I think it's word supremacy. I think for Latino folks,
(06:49):
using the Latino identity sometimes can be like a distancing
from blackness, right, because we've been told that blackness is
similar to the things that folks grow up within the States,
like black is not great, fixt your hair. Coming to
terms with what we've been told about blackness is all
b s. It takes really confronting them, like your identity
(07:11):
right in the fabric of Latino countries is white supremacy
and internalized racism basically, And so a lot of that is, like,
you know, you have to confront like what we've been
told about our identities and who we are. There's nothing
wrong with having pride in your nationality, right, and so
I wonder if you can talk about or give some
(07:33):
suggestions for how people can kind of maintain that pride
but also explore what it means to be black. In
addition to this, I think that there's room for both
for us to celebrate our culture, our language, our food,
our music, and also I think make room for all
the things that we haven't been taught to celebrate. Right, Like,
(07:54):
there's a lot of ancestral practices in terms of spirituality
have been stripped away from land X folks, and so
exploring that, right like, that's how our ancestors were denied
their identity to connect to their blackness, to their connection
to Africa, and so kind of making room for that too.
Write this really great woman, this dominic women who started
(08:17):
this like hair salam for curly hair people in d
R and now in New York. Is an example of
celebrating that we have this like amazing multifaceted hair. And
you know what, I think a lot of Dominican identity,
Latin identity is to try and like really tame down
and processed and like fit into this idea of the
(08:40):
whiteness of what's accepted in identity. And so celebrating all that,
celebrating just practices that I think historically in our families
weren't labeled this is from our black heritage, and so
connecting those two is really important. And really being curious
and like being willing to have conversations. I think that's
another thing that gets lost is having conversations without our
(09:03):
families about oh, how come we do that? How come
you know, like we say this, you know, this saying
or this prayer. I grew up with an aunt who
was very much into and that's like an African kind
of way of practicing spirituality, and I just thought of
it as like that's her thing, but that that was
her kind of practicing, like you know, ancestral ways of
(09:24):
healing and ways of praying. That in our family we
never really discussed, We never labeled like that. We just
saw her as like she's just being weird. Yeah, And
I think, you know, if I think about like just
conversations intergenerationally for black women, I would imagine that they
are the same kinds of conversations with a different flavor
right in Latina communities. And I'm wondering, like you've already
(09:47):
talked about like how your aunt practice you know, this
particular piece of spirituality, and like what some of those conversations,
like do you see a lot of tension between like
granddaughters and their grandmother's about maybe the grandmother does not
identify as Afro Latina, but the granddaughter does, right, And
so what are some of the things that come up
in like some of those intergenerational conversations. Yeah, for sure,
(10:10):
that's very much in the reality. I think for now,
the Latin next generation who's like coming into more awareness
and more empowerment with other blackness, is really confronting and
sitting with the family conflict that comes about when you
own that identity. I have two small children. They're very
black and have hair that is just beautiful and curly,
(10:33):
and so a lot of it has been around like
being mindful of the language that my family uses around
hair around them, and so really saying like, there is beautiful,
tell them that it's beautiful and how amazing it is.
That's something that now is very present, and so it
can lead to conflict. It can lead to distancing. You
can lead to a lot of feeling like you don't belong.
(10:55):
And so what you think is family, what you think
is being proud of your Latino experience. Now it's like,
wait a minute, you've been impressing me and confusing me
all these years, and so it can be pretty sad,
I think, and confrontational of like what you think, what
you come to believe family is where you come to
(11:16):
believe what your role and your identity is. But those
conversations kind of need to happen, and particularly thing around
for me anyway, like around children, it's like, well, no,
we're not going to do that. You know. Colorism is
a huge thing too, and so policing that and comments
about being too dark and talking to my grandmother about that.
(11:40):
I think at this point I kind of have to
enter it knowing you know, she's like about to be
her nineties. Like I still have a conversations, I still
say my truth. But it's a very delicate dance, I
think because for a lot of us, family is so important.
It's like such a huge part of the Latino experiences
having strong family connections, and so it's a complicated one
(12:02):
and I don't have a good answer for it, but
I know that it's one that is not without a
lot of tension and questioning. M Yeah, And I know
that you have worked with clients from lots of different ages,
and a lot of your research has been on Latina
college students, and I'm wondering, like, in the work that
you've seen, we know how important identity is to mental
(12:23):
health and how some of those identity challenges can impact
our mental health. Can you talk a little bit about
what kinds of things have come up in your work
as it relates to your identity and mental health. Yeah,
for sure. Part of my initial research and identity and
mental health was around the messaging that particularly Latin us
get in college around making career choices. And so what
(12:47):
messages are we getting that either help us feel confident
in the choices you're making or not confident in questioning?
And so we found not surprising. And I think this
extense to anyone marginalized is you know, when you're in college,
and depends on the college setting, but when you're college
(13:10):
messaging around well you show you want to do that,
or you don't look like you're going to be good
at math or things like that, like things like oh
you you speak really good English for latinow things that
internally tell us you don't belong, you don't fit in,
are you really smart enough? And so what that does
is gets you questioning and gets you readjusting and changing
(13:35):
your belief system around what you can accomplish and what
options are available to you. And like, I think this
applies to not just the Latin identity, but folks on
the margins of people of color, LGBTQ folks you get
these like microaggressions. These messages basically meant to make you
question your inherent talents, your skills, your capability. And it's
(14:00):
a sort of a way of gate keeping and limiting
folks to pursue things that would be fruitful and productive
and it would be amazing. And so I think the
focus on identity is so important, at least for me
the way I see it, the reason why I even
came into this field was because I can't tease apart
your mental health from your identity. Like to me, there entwined,
(14:21):
like the way you show up in the world, the
way you're treated in the world, the way people see you,
you've been told about who you are. All of that
affects every single thing. It affects the way your kindergaran
teeder talks to you. It affects the friends you make,
It effects the relationships you make. To me, identity is
everywhere and it affects everything. Yeah. More from my conversation
(14:44):
with Dr Boni Facio after the break, can you talked
a little bit of Dr Bonifacio about like your experience
as an effort letty a woman in like how you
have shaped your practice around that and how it impacts
the work that you do with your clients. Yeah, grad
(15:07):
school was kind of like the awakening moment for me.
I came into this field, I think wanting that moment
and wanting to first work within my community. I grew
up in Brooklyn. I grew up in really just diverse
and very nurturing kind of communities, and so I needed
to be a part of it. And this happened to
(15:30):
be the avenue that helped me get back in this way.
And I think grad school was one of those moments
for me, one being like the only black woman for
a big school like in New York, and so it
ended up kind of being one of those like, Okay,
I need to really know who I am because if
(15:51):
I don't, this place is gonna eat me up. Being
honest about my experiences was important for me, letting my
professors know, like, this is challenging. I don't when I
didn't have support letting people know, and so really creating
community was important for me, Like coming to terms with
like how I define my identity was really important and
(16:13):
it just so happened. My particular program was all about
we're going to teach you about identity and we're gonna
make sure you have the language for and that there's
a foundation around how you come to label yourself and
how to do this work with others so that there
isn't like a further marginalization of the folks, so that
(16:35):
there's an invitation. Okay, let's do this work together, Like
let's explore your racial identity, your gender identity, your sexual
orientation and how does that feel and what does that mean?
And how have the communities that you're entreated you because
of these identities. It was sort of like this parallel
process where I'm doing this work from grad school, but
then it's like my life too. Right then it's like
(16:56):
I need to evaluate my relationships and I need to
reevaluate like the your choices I made, And it was
a huge shift in like my reality and the way
I spoke about myself and the way that I spoke
about my communities that I think now allows me to
help folks find that language and feel empowered in their language,
(17:16):
feel empowered in their identities in their communities that I
didn't have before that I'm super grateful for and now
in my practice, what that looks like is helping folks
along that process a big part I think two of
my career journey has been figuring out who I am
in big settings, right like who I am is an
Afro Latina in in a hospital I was to be
(17:37):
a teacher in a school, and figuring out how those
systems really affected me and how those systems really are
forgiving for folks who are on the margins. And so
a lot of my work now is there's a lot
of support and a lot of making room and space
(17:57):
for folks in corporate America, out in big law, out
working for these big tech companies that are really trying
to find their voice and feel empowered in their and
their experiences. All that to say, it was sort of
like this awakening parallel process moment where as you know,
(18:17):
um entering the field, I'm also kind of like doing
a lot of inner work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds
like it. It sounds like it. I love the way
that you've talked about like doing your own identity work
while your program was teaching you like how to do
that and facilitate that for others. And I'm wondering what
that looks like in your practice. Like you've already talked
(18:38):
about some of the colorism and texturism issues that come up.
I wonder how you facilitate those kinds of conversations, are
unpacking those conversations for people who come to you with
those kinds of concerns, And what might you be able
to share with our community about how they might be
able to unpack some of those issues really to maybe
something like colorism and texturism. Yeah, for sure. I think
(18:59):
part of doing this work, genuinely and honestly is just
owning my identities to and making that president in the
room and having that be a dialogue with whoever I'm
working with, Like, what's it like to talk to me?
Particularly when I'm working with other black women and there's
for short differences in the way that we present, right,
So I know I'm fairly light skinned, and so working
(19:21):
with folks who maybe darker. Okay, what's it like to
talk to me about it? Are you worried about what
I might think? Like? How are you thinking I'm receiving it?
Kind of making it present in the relationship, because I
think part of the colorism conversation, what makes it really
challenging is when it isn't talked about, when it isn't
made present, it doesn't serve the conversation or progress, and
(19:45):
so part of it is in the moment and they here, Now,
what's it like making it very present and getting my
clients to kind of talk about what experiences they've had
with colorism and touchruism and how has that kind of
effect it their journey and their identity. And for me
owning like I'm here going on a journey with you,
(20:06):
and so my experience is not going to be your experience.
My job is to kind of like help me understand
your experience. I think owning my limits, owning what I
know and don't know, and kind of doing this work
collaboratively is important. Yeah, it's being super curious, Like it's
(20:27):
important for me to know like what language clients are
using to describe themselves and their communities, where they feel
they belong, where they feel they don't belong, What messages
have they been given about who they are and how
they present and how they've been made to feel other? Right,
and so the way I've been made to feel other
(20:47):
it is going to be different from other folks. And
so holding space and making room for all of those
versions is important for me in my work. But yeah,
it's a collect abortive conversation that is ongoing and part
of all the work that we do. Yeah. So we've
(21:08):
talked a lot about identity, and we know that much
of our identity is informed by media representations, right, and
so I'd love to hear your input about you know,
like media representations of effort Latina women especially and ones
that you feel like have like been done really will
and how that does impact our mobility to like figure
out who we are. Yeah. Oh boy. I think one
(21:31):
of the first latinos I saw on TV was a
detective on twenty one Jump Street, which I don't know
if that was like a national show, but it was
about these three detectives in New York. Oh, Malik Yoga,
wasn't it? Or yes, yes, yes, Torris No, Torrias was
(21:57):
the guy, rightnect was a woman. It was been on
there and I was like, wait a minute, she has
an accent, her skin tone, her hair. To me, I
think as a young kid, I was like, oh, she
looks like one of my thea's, like one of my aunts.
Like so that was like a mark moment for me
(22:18):
where I saw that. To be honest, there haven't been
that many that I felt like that connected to that
I felt represented my experience. There was also the show Scrubs.
The nurse on there, I forget her name, but she
was a Latina, and I remember feeling like, oh my gosh,
she sounds like the women I grew up with. She
(22:38):
sounds like my cousins. So that was one I think
When Orange is the New Black came out, there were
quite a few characters on that show that I felt
like were authentic, were very real. And then of course
now I think is someone I think very much in
(22:59):
the reality and in the social media space and to
space that I think I think she does a good
job representing after Latini that very authentic, Like there's a
confidence I think about her owning her identity that is refreshing. Sure,
and Cardi b I mean, she's out there, she throws
(23:22):
us English out there sometimes and she does her thing. Yeah,
But I think sometimes what I listen for and look
for in after Latina's out in the space is that
confidence I think that a mata has. But also like
the owning I think, particularly with colorism, the owning of
it that is missing a lot that is disappointing, honestly,
(23:47):
and so I wish there was more of a conversation
around that, around being in this space, but also like
knowing that our experience is a little bit different and
we have access are a different perception of us than
our dark skin sisters, and so yeah, some sometimes it's
a little disappointing. M hmmm, Yeah, I mean it sounds
(24:09):
like that was a part of like some of the
disappointment around In the Heights, right that you know, like
the film didn't necessarily represent like the community that it
was designed to be about. Yeah, yeah, sure, In the
Heights was one of those experiences. Was like, oh, it
was great artistically, but there's like a disappointing or longiness
(24:30):
for it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a need, I think
arrange of experiences that it's just not happening, and I
would think by now, it's come on, y'all, like come on,
like yeah, and I wonder have you seen anything on
(24:50):
like smaller scales, Like I feel like probably and I don't,
like I'm not in the TikTok streets enough to know,
but I feel like TikTok is a place where like
and Z and younger generations of like Afro Latinas are
probably creating community and like being that thing for one
another that they don't maybe see like in greater media representations. Yeah,
(25:13):
I just you know, you mentioned TikTok. I'm not in
these TikTok streets are Julia And I think she came
from YouTube shorts, like short videos. She is one that
I think is she has that voice that's very clear
and confidence and very pro black and like nose she's black.
(25:35):
That's another thing too. I think it's there's a difference
between after latinos now who are in this space, who
are are there and um like hold like physically the identity,
but then don't say it right then They're not like, yeah,
you know, I'm after Latina. This is why I am.
I think there's sometimes there's a hesitation to to like
(25:57):
come out and like label it that like you're still
kind of playing the white supremacy thing. And so I just,
you know, I think that sometimes happens out there in
these social media TV streets. But I know that she's
she's very vocal. She is getting a lot of Netflix stuff,
(26:19):
and she's on Instagram. There are a couple of others,
but their names aren't coming to me right away. But yeah,
I think now because there is a lot of language
for and there's just generally like there's a desire and
also like an impatience too. In the younger generations are
like enough, like enough long enough, Like I am tired,
(26:43):
this is who I am. I'm gonna find my people,
And uh, it's so great to see when I do
see it, and I'm excited. I'm excited for younger folks
to come and like, you know, break it down. M
more from my conversation with Dr Bonafice, see you after
the break. So what might that journey look like? Like,
(27:13):
let's say somebody finds our conversation a very young person,
let's say a sixteen or seventeen year old, and they're
listening to you and they're like, oh my gosh, is
this something that I have not been told about? Right?
What kinds of things might they want to explore? What
kinds of questions might they want to ask? Maybe parents, grandparents,
Like how do you get started with like figuring out
(27:33):
this identity journey? And what might that look like with
the support of a therapist. Oh, yeah, that's such a
good question. I think they extend to which you feel
you have access to family, like oral history, to get
super curious and to get super in people's faces. Okay,
so you know where were you born and where did
(27:55):
grandpa come from? And kind of just get start to
ask a lot of question times. I wish I had
done that when I was younger. I still do and
I still can, but it's sort of like, while you
have access to start to ask the questions. For me,
it was a little complicated because my family we immigrated
here and so we were just like surviving, Like we
(28:15):
were like, don't ask me questions, like we're trying to
pay rent, we're trying to get food. And so I
had to build community. I had to build community while
you know, going through school, outside of school, find folks
who you feel that connection with your community with, feel
like you share those identities with. It's super important. I
think without building that community, I feel like I wouldn't
(28:39):
have developed the confidence in my identity to explore and
to question and to be curious. And that's one thing
I would say, like, find your people, find your tribe,
find the folks that you feel connected to, and share
your curiosities with. What that would look like in therapy,
I think is kind of exploring what have you been
(28:59):
told about who you are, and what have you been
told about what you look like in your family? And
what messages were you given about that were the positive
messages where the messages that didn't make you feel good?
Who did you feel close to in your early family
like that made you feel safe in your identity and
(29:23):
so kind of identifying those things are important, particularly thinking
of that age group like late teens, early twenties, where
so much is happening developmentally identity wise, that you need grounding,
You need some folks to remind you like who you are,
and it's okay that you're struggling right now, It's okay
(29:44):
to ask questions. I think, particularly around that age group,
identity can be so confronted and so shaky that it
can lead you to kind of like experiments and do
things that maybe aren't so healthy for you. And so
those are some things I would recommend. And if you're
thinking about I think entering therapy, kind of enter it
(30:05):
with an openness and a curiosity as opposed to all
I know already right, kind of like being willing to
explore all the different ways that your identity has impacted
your life. I would say, yeah, yeah, you know, I
think one thing that often comes up when people start
doing this kind of work is shame, right like this,
(30:28):
I'm embarrassed that I didn't know this. Like what kinds
of things would you offer to people live that is
something that they experience in this journey? Yeah, you know,
shame and guilty like these two cool cousins not cousins, right,
because they keep you silent and they keep you quiet
and internalizing a lot of blame or responsibility for something
(30:49):
that isn't And so if that is coming up, that's
why I think to having community is important, like having
folks to explore those feelings and experiences with. Right, you're
not crazy, it's not like you're making it up. But
also super important to kind of like release yourself from
some of the like internalized negative stereotypes and the stigma
(31:13):
and frankly a lot of the internalized racism that kind
of happens, right, like thinking of ourselves as bad or
not good enough because I didn't know this, or the
family dynamic of their family history and culture is to
pretend that these things didn't make sense. How are you
supposed to know? Like, how are you supposed to know
(31:33):
those things? And so coming to terms of I didn't
know and I'm willing to learn. Is super important to
kind of silence those not so helpful thoughts and feelings.
It's okay to honor them, there's make space for them,
But to the extent that they keep you quiet or
isolated or distant, I would question that and kind of
(31:58):
see where you can kind of let all of some
of those things and find community around it. I think
Instagram does I think a good job of like you
can find your people. That way, you can connect, connect
to like communities and content creators and say, you know,
if you have a question or or things like that. Yeah,
(32:19):
super important, find find your people and find where you
can feel safe. Yeah, you've talked about the importance of
community a couple of times. I was going to ask you,
have you seen communities that would be good for people
who are wanting to learn more about this, Like, are
there certain hashtags that people can find on Instagram or
you know, on Twitter, or communities at certain websites or
(32:40):
podcasts or books that you feel like would be helpful
for people. Yeah. There's a really great Instagram account called
and Cultured Call, and I find their account to be
so awesome. I think, particularly for a flat is coming
to their like black identity. It's a space I think
where the energy and the dynamic is like we're very
(33:03):
much here to embrace our blackness and what that looks
like in our lives and kind of dismantle all of
like the stereotypes, messaging, stigmas, white supremacy, bs that we've
been told about black Latin Ida And so I think,
particularly when it comes to like the Dominican Haitian dynamics
(33:25):
and those things, there's a lot I think that needs
to like needs to happen that space and more of
seeing each other really as you know, as connected people.
I think because of the history of the island there's
so much and so that account I think there's a
good job of creating a space for both. Oh. I
(33:46):
just found this really great podcast bag Ladies with a
Z at the end, and there are these two for Latinas.
I think they're from the Bronx, and they just do
a really good job again of like like speaking really
authentically to the identity, to their experience creating a community.
I think around what it's like to walk around with
(34:08):
this complex identity and all the different spaces where you
may feel welcomes and then not right, and so they're
really great. They're great to listen to, and I think
for me or Resonates is like that authenticity, like being
willing to share their experiences and being honest about it
and inviting other people to like witness their experiences is
(34:31):
really great. So yeah, those are two that I can
think of right now. But that's a great place for
people to get started. And where can people find more
information about you? What is your website as well as
any social media handles you'd like to share? Yeah, I'm
not doctor there Luisa Boni Fascio dot com and my
Instagram is at my name Dr Lisa Bonni Fascio. I'm
(34:55):
not super active. I've been taking a little bit of
a social media right and just just for my sanity,
Mr Joy sometimes understandable perfect. Thank you so much for
all that information. Will be sure to include that in
this show notes. And thank you so much for she
and your expertise with us today. I appreciate it. Thank
(35:16):
you for having me. This is awesome. I'm so glad
Dr Bona Facia was able to share her expertise with
us today. To learn more about her or to check
out the resources she shared visit the show notes at
Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session to to
seven and don't forget to text two of your girls
and tell them to check out the episode as well.
(35:38):
If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be
sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for
Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want
to continue digging into this topic or just be in
community with other sisters, come on over and join us
in this sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the
Internet design just for black women. You can join us
at community that Therapy for Black Earls dot com. Thank
(36:01):
you all so much for joining me again this week.
I look forward to continue in this conversation with you
all real soon. Take good care.
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