October 27, 2021 • 47 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
It’s the moment we’ve all been waiting for. the fifth and final season of HBO’s Insecure premiered this week and of course we had to talk about it. My friend and colleague Dr. Donna Oriowo is back with us today to chat all about what we saw in the premiere and what we might expect for the rest of the season.
Resources
Visit our Amazon Store for all the books mentioned on the podcast!
Where to Find Dr. Oriowo
Grab a copy of Cocoa Butter & Hair Grease
Instagram: @annodright
Twitter: @drdonnaoriowo
Listen to Dr. Oriowo here on Session 201 of the podcast discussing how to vet relationship advice.
Listen to Dr. Oriowo here on Session 60 of the podcast discussing colorism and texturism.
Listen to Dr. Oriowo here on Session 159 of the podcast discussing Molly's return to therapy.
Listen to Dr. Oriowo here on Session 158 of the podcast discussing Issa & Lawrence's relationship.
Listen to Dr. Oriowo here on Session 155 of the podcast discussing Molly & Issa's friendship.
Listen to Dr. Oriowo here on Session 151 of the podcast discussing the Season 4 premiere of Insecure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a
weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the
small decisions we can make to become the best possible
(00:22):
versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
(00:43):
is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
for joining me for session to one of the Therapy
for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get into the episode right
after a word from our sponsors. It's the moment we've
(01:16):
all been waiting for the fifth and final season of
HBO's Insecure premiere this week, and of course we had
to talk about it. My friend and colleague, Dr Donna
Orioo is back with us today to chat all about
what we saw in the premiere and what we might
expect for the rest of the season. In case you've
missed her before on the podcast, Dr Orioo is an author,
(01:36):
international speaker, and certified sex and relationship therapist in the Washington,
d C. Metro area. She's the owner of A Not
Right and specializes in working with black women on issues
related to colorism and texturism and its impact on mental
and sexual health. She's also the author of Cocoa Butter
and Hair Grease, a self love journey through hair and skin.
(01:57):
This episode does contain spoilers, so you haven't watched the
most recent episode, you definitely want to save it for later.
I know that y'all have lots of thoughts as well,
so please share them with us on social media using
the hashtag TVG in Session. Here's our conversation. Okay, so
much to chat about. When we were texting right after
(02:19):
the show went off, we both talked about feeling like
we were very very deep in our fields and I
wanted to spend some time checking in and like figuring out, like, Okay,
what am I really feeling about? Right? And so I
feel like a part of it for me was like
it felt like these old friends that I hadn't caught
up with in a long time. And I also recognize
(02:40):
that we got like season four right as the pandemic started,
after we were kind of all kind of home, and
so it felt like a reprieve. And so in some ways,
I think I have started to associate you know, like
good feelings, right, like a little bit of a break
from like all of the stress that is happening in
other places in the world on Sunday evenings for a
(03:00):
half hour with Issa and her friends. Yes, there's this
excitement around it. I'm going to watch really good entertainment
that is geared toward black folks by black folk. But
there's also a sadness because it's the first episode of
the last season, like beyond this season, we're not catching
(03:22):
up with Issa and the entire cast anymore, not in
the same way. So it's like, dang, this is the
beginning of the end. And the feelings that I was
having about just being back in you know, this insecure
space versus the feelings that they evoked with what was
going on in the episode, I was just like, Yo,
(03:42):
this is just kind of rich. I'm like, you want
to start off like this. I mean, the first episode
definitely pulled you in, But I think they also got
me when they like did the like season preview, right,
so when we got a chance to see what might
be coming up. I really feel like that is what
really like took me over the edge. You know, I've
already been started my speculation, Like we got lots of theories,
(04:05):
lots of theories about So we start the episode off
and we see that they are heading to a ten
year reunion from their graduation from Stanford. So I don't
know that I knew that all of them, or at
least Molly, Issa, Kelly Antiffany, had gone to Stanford. I
don't know how I missed that part of the story.
(04:27):
Let me tell you about the zero paying attention. It
feels like it's so much attention to clearly I missed
that glaring point and fun facts. So I saw that
Easter shared online that like, Stanford typically has a no
filming rule that they bended for Insecure, So shout out
to Stanford for that. All right, right, right, they're trying
(04:48):
to be put on the scene because none of them
IVY leagues looked all that good after all that that's happened.
But what was that last year? I mean was the
most recent mess of course. Yeah, So we see them
at the reunion, and I thought it was interesting that
we spend the majority of this episode with just them
(05:08):
at Stanford before like we ever see Lawrence, right, And
so of course that's what everybody's on their edge of
their seat waiting like, oh my gosh, what's happening. But
it actually felt very yes, it felt very fitting that
we spent the majority of this episode really digging in
with the friends, absolutely, because I feel like we get
so caught up in even in our own world, right,
(05:29):
this idea that romantic relationships take precedence over everything else,
And then this episode it was like, nah, it does
not take precedence over everything else. Their friendship is the point,
So let's get back to the point. And sometimes I
wish that people move back in that space. I mean
(05:49):
relationship anarchy. You know, it's about all relationships having some
value that you pick it, you talk about what it is,
what the parameters of that relationship are. And I felt
like this was just like, to me, it was like
like a baby nod to some level of relationship anarchy,
because it was not about let's pick up and figure
(06:10):
out what what Issa and Lawrence are gonna do. It's like, no,
let's actually pick up with these friendships, seeing them individually
and then seeing them come together. I feel like that
sort of that convergence was also important. Yeah. So I
think the timeline that they have set out is that
it has been two months since we last saw the group,
So two months have passed since Molly needs to have
(06:31):
that last conversation where we saw them getting together for
dinner and talking about can't we talk? At least from
what I was able to gather that they have still
been talking, still trying to figure what their friendship looks
like now. But stuff still feels very awkward. Oh yeah, beautifully.
So yeah, and I'm happy with that. Say more about that.
I think that everybody we're wanting to be okay so quick.
(06:52):
I'm looking like y'all the head the falling out, of
falling out. I mean, you called each other names. You
don't say at all this stuff. And I feel like
people don't really want to do repair work. And I
get it. A lot of us haven't been taught that.
Like if my parents were wrong, if mama was wrong
when we was growing up, it'd be like you hungry, right,
(07:12):
that was the repair exactly. And so we don't. We
don't talk about it, we don't give no energy to it.
It's come eat and get over this thing. It's not
even a big deal anymore, right, And a lot of
us have been taught to repair relationships similarly, So we
don't give it no real energy, we don't give it
no real time. We just want things to be better
(07:33):
because we want them to be better. Right now, So
that they were still in like this awkward space and
feeling almost like insecure within the context of their own relationship,
I was just like, yeah, I did that. And it's
also telling that they both have a lot going on
in their own individual lives. Right we see them talking
(07:54):
about how Molly is still kind of reeling from the
breakup with Andrew. I was very excited to hear her
reference her therapist telling her to be more present, right,
So she clearly is still meeting with her therapists, which
is cool. And then you know, so of course they're
trying to figure out whatever is happening with Lawrence, and
so they are individually dealing with I think a lot.
And then also their friendship is in a bit of
(08:14):
a disarray, but it seems very clear that they're still
very actively fighting to try to figure out like what
this new stage of their friendship is gonna look like.
Word like purposeful repair, And I think that's the part
that I love that it's like, yes, we're going to
do this work and not even like that. Molly was asking, like, yo, Kelly,
how long did it take y'all to repair your relationship?
(08:35):
Because I feel like I'm hanging on I'm trying to
and that she gave such an honest answer, like, yo,
it took a while we were fake back before we
were back back, right. It's just like if you don't
say so, what does the fake back look like? It
looks like laughing the jokes that are not funny, that
they're not funny, Just trying to hang in there. Word
(08:56):
it's trying to find something to talk about, but something
that's not too deep to talk about because you don't
want to say anything that feels controversial. It sort of
feels like when you meet people for the first time
and you want your best behavior. It feels like that,
but with some knowledge of what your best behavior has
to look like for the person that you're trying to
prepair with. I think we saw throughout the episode them
(09:18):
making like bids toward one another around like Okay, I
kind of want to be there, but I don't know
what that looks like and if she opened to this,
So I think we saw that throughout the episode. But
I love that they were checking in with each other.
It's like, Hey, um no, I'm gonna keep it low key,
did you Lisa? Did you want to chill? Right? Can
we chill with wine? Thank you for adding in the
(09:39):
parameter like yes, I need drinkings? Well yeah, I thought
that behavior from Molly to me seemed different than I
think I've seen of her in past seasons, because in
my mind, she had seen that like Lisa, maybe we're
struggling during this panel which we're gonna get into, but
that she picked up on like Okay, I probably need
to check in with my girl, like it feels like
something's going on here. And so to me, when she
(10:02):
was asking her like, Ohsa, do you want to kind
of keep it low key and chill, it felt like
she wanted to be there for her but didn't know
even exactly what that might look like or what Easa
needed in that moment. Yeah, And I like that she
gave space for us to be able to say whether
or not she wanted to recover with her and give
a little term of how they were going to recover
(10:23):
even that part where they're just walking used to start
going off and she's like, did you eat it right?
Just like if that ain't right, I'm angry exactly. You
sounded kind of angry right now, Let's make sure we
make sure that you eat, Like, let's let's meet an
immediate need. And I feel like that was her directly
taking Kelly's advice, because that was the one thing Kelly said,
(10:46):
like what is the need in the moment? And I
felt like she was looking for what the need could
be in the moment, but making no assumption about it,
but instead asking. And I feel like that to me
felt different than how the interactions had been in like
previous seasons. Mind you, I did not rewatch all the seasons.
I didn't even rewatch last season in preparation for this
(11:07):
because I was just like, you know what, I want
to see what it feels like when it stands on
its own with the knowledge being is there but it's hazy,
and I'm like, wow, I mean she like legit checking in,
checking in like hey, I want to do this? Is
this something that you want to do? And I was
just like, okay, I feel your girl, I ask that question, right,
(11:29):
I agree so getting back to the panel, so you know,
of course they're there for their teen year like reunion,
but Issa has also been asked to speak on a
panel about like entrepreneurship and distinguished alumni kind of thing.
I found it interesting that it feels like some of
the commentary that Issa offered, like around like her work life,
(11:51):
felt very similar to Season one Issa when she was
trying to like figure it out, what am I doing.
I kind of feel fulfilled in this, but I'm not
really sure or and so I thought the panel was
a very illuminating experience just around like how we don't
always have to have the answers. I was thinking about time,
like throughout watching this episode, this idea of time, the
(12:13):
concept of time and how it was spoken about, even
at the end of the episode, like the rap Kelly
asking that question at the end as give a Little
by um Ego was playing, It was like, if you
knew the end was coming, how would you spend your time?
Like that question, And like when I get back into
the panel, I'm just like the whole episode is saying
(12:34):
code for right, like we're looking back, we're starting at
where they started. They all started at Stanford together and
trying to get an idea of where they are right now.
And it was so fitting that you just said that
it felt like first season EASTA because I'm just our
time is a construct that we think of as linear,
that's not. It folds in on itself so that it
(12:55):
feels like season one EASTA to me makes sense because
she's had a completely new season of her life. So yeah,
she still got some figuring out to do. Like what
I was doing back then, I knew it wasn't me,
and what I'm doing right now feels better. I feel
more authentic, but I still can't say that I'm one
hundred percent sure. And I was just like, yo, thank
(13:17):
you for the truth of that answer, especially that question
like at what point did you feel stability? Right? Like,
when do you ever feel that? Honestly, I don't know,
I don't know. I was just like, how would I
answer this question? And I'm just like, when you listen
to everybody else's answer on the panel, the first person
(13:37):
said when they got validation from somebody else because they
gave them money. The second person said, when I got
validation from other people because they asked me for advice.
I'm looking like, look at both of them. The first
two answers were external validation, that's how I know I'm
on the right path type stuff. The third one was
just like I was able to quit that other job
that I didn't really want and that felt like, Oh,
(14:00):
that felt better. It felt like the move towards Yes,
this is for me. This is how I know I'm stable.
I'm stable because I don't have to give my time,
my energy, or give of myself in places that do
not feel good for me, and then used to bringing
at home with her answer like I don't know. I
don't feel it all the time, Like I could wake
(14:21):
up tomorrow and feel like I wasted my time, and
I feel like, yo, if that's not someone screaming at
all of us that we can pivot, that we can
change our minds, I don't know what is absolutely yeah,
And I also thought that it was an illustration of
some of the conversations you see online, or like some
(14:42):
of our behavior online, when we get into this tendency
of trying to compare ourselves to like what other people
are doing. Right, So this person has this great career,
and this person has this great family and all of
this stuff, but really, like everybody's story is their own,
and so it doesn't make your story any less or
better because you're in a different place. It's just different.
Her being on that panel, I thought was a real
(15:03):
illustration of how sometimes we get caught up in thinking
that I should look some way. When it looks whatever way,
it looks right, it just looks like what it is.
It's just the reality of it. That's such an a
two yourself. Yes, yes, I texted you to that less nime,
just like, Yo, this is reminding me is the Shout episode,
(15:27):
So you know, I had to go look it up
and go listen and everything, and I was just like, oh,
like seriously, the way that all just came together in
that space. There was like a touch of like nostalgia
and whimsy and awkwardness to this episode that I was
number one. I was really digging it and I was
feeling that awkwardness. I was like, oh, gosh, they are
not back, and you can tell that they are not back,
(15:51):
but they were getting into that space of nostalgia and
just like trying to be present in the moment, but
almost like they were trying to relive the past. And
this is one of those moments where I'm just like,
nostalgia is good to an extent, but let's shi could
get you into trouble. Listen, and we saw that clearly here, right,
(16:12):
so clear. But before we get to that, the other
part that I thought was really cool because you know,
we love when mirror bitch pops up, and so I
thought that this mirror bitch segment was really cool because
we see her talking to like college Issa, right, so
twenty one year or nineteen year old Issa, and like
this check in with yourself. If you were able to
(16:33):
go back and talk to like your college age self
or nineteen year old self, what would you say and
would she be proud of you? The part of that
conversation that I really loved college stuff is like, yo,
we got this practice with Molly, got this law firm,
and it was like, come on now, we didn't really
want that, right, And I was just like, if you
don't go ahead and say it, you don't say it.
(16:54):
This is why I thought that the whole thing was
about time, because I'm just like, how many of us
are still steady trying to live our fifteen year old dreams.
You were a child when they impressed upon you the
importance of picking what you're gonna be by the time
you're born. Number one, they're already gendering you and telling
you exactly what kind of partner you're gonna sleep with
(17:17):
and make babies with. Oh, this is your little boyfriend,
is your little girlfriyer. So we're already doing that. But
then they also voicing these careers on you, like, oh,
this one's gonna be a doctor. Oh, they're gonna be
at I'm looking like I'm not Jerry, come on, dr
Lawyer and Jena. So it's a constant thing. And just
like how when you're young, you really do want to
please your parents, that's your life, like how can I
(17:39):
please them? But some of us forget to let go
of the dreams of our parents and get our own dreams.
So I feel like just the fact that she was
able to see that the thing that she was doing
back then, trying to be a lawyer, didn't even fid
who she was or even who she is, and then
she was able to come to her own authentic self. No,
(18:01):
I mean it matches with what she gave her that panel.
She gave authenticity, like oh, I love my neighborhood. I'm
passionate about that ain't. Nobody was clapping for that, But
I'm looking like they don't need the clap for it,
because the reason that we do what we do is
highly personal, and too many of us are looking for
other people to validate our dreams in the first place.
And the fact that she was able to say what
(18:22):
she said and she was awkward, but I'm still digging
how authentic she was and even just having the conversation
that she had. Yeah, you know the other funny thing
I think about that panel, just noticing like what people
were clapping for versus what they weren't. I think that
is like also telling, right, like how people sometimes speak
(18:43):
in sound bites and say the thing that will be
quotable or whatever, but it's not actually the real thing, right,
Like in real life, I imagine that us comments like
there would have been a line of people waiting to
talk to her after this panel she touched on something
that they could really identify, like the kids in the
audience who have no idea that you know, what they
want to do, and like they're graduating next semester. So
(19:05):
that's how I imagine that would have played in real life. Yeah,
and I think that people like the narrative of oh,
you're an entrepreneur and it was easy for you, which
means now I can do it. And I'm just like, look,
but it's not easy for everybody. It's not simple, and
you know someone's simple sound bite, it's not gonna be
enough to sustain you when you're going through it and
(19:25):
when you're trying to make the thing work, or when
you grow the thing and realize that the stuff that
you was doing when you started can't be the same
stuff that you're doing now that you've been doing it
for a while. It got me thinking about my own business.
I'm looking like my entrepreneurial journey look mad different like
number one. I never intended. How about that lets started there?
I never intended. I was just like, you know, God
(19:48):
is the major bully right here, because I'm looking like
somehow I went from working for somebody else, which I
thought I was gonna be happy to do, to working
for myself, which granted, youse, Yes, it's been happier, but
it's also been more work. It's been more tears, it's
been more fighting, and I have had those moments where
I look like, just like what she said, I'm like, yo,
(20:09):
I could wake up tomorrow morning, I felt like I've
wasted my dad all time. Not but like sometimes I do.
Even if you don't wake up and say I wasted
my time, you can wake up and say I want
to do something different, right, Because I think that's the
other pieces that it doesn't have to be that it
was a waste of time. It just means that maybe
now you want to do something else. It's about the adaptability.
The adaptability allows us to pivot, allows us to feel
(20:32):
more free and not feel so constrained by the hands
of time. Because when we feel like we don't have
no time left, we start taking all kinds of mess,
acting out of desperation as opposed to like true intention
and desire exactly. So then we start having those conversations
about shoulds, where we're supposed to be, what we should
be doing by this time. And I'm like, all of
(20:54):
that is rooted and white supremacist ideals, especially once around
youth and how when you are young, you're worth something
and you building your life. And this is why so
many people have a fear of turning thirty. They feel
like their lives are over because they don't know that
throughout your entire life. You can pivot if you want
to pivot when you seven to five. You can pivot
(21:16):
if something no longer brings you joy, you can say
that you're finished with it. You didn't quit, You're not
a quitter. You are finished, and you get to pivot.
And there's your benediction, ladies and gentlemen. More from my
conversation with Dr Orio Oh after the break. So the
(21:43):
other thing that we see kind of running as a
theme at least throughout this episode. You know, we see
at registration like they don't have a name to head
for Kelly, and then we realize that somehow they have
now categorized her as like deceased, and so there's this
whole in memorium thing. So it feels like Kelly is
exploring through this episode like what she has been to
(22:05):
people and like her being the funny friend. You know
that they reduced her dad. She always had a purse,
she always had a good stinky league mm hmmm, And
it was just like such random, like little factoids which
to me spoke of they never really saw her. And
(22:26):
what I loved about this was how Kelly stood in
that like this is not okay. I'm like that she
was willing to make everybody uncomfortable in the Daggon car.
I was like, please do, please do, because they are
so invested in you being the funny friend at times
that I think they forget that she's got like legit
feels about stuff. I'm like and yes, she's funny and
(22:47):
in a lot of ways she can serve as a
relief of the tension that can be happening between various characters.
But I think that sometimes they forget to see her
as a whole person, and she demanded it in this episode. Agreed, Yeah,
I mean there is more complexity to her than just
like being funny exactly, and how she was like when
(23:08):
they were getting back in the car, I would haunt
you in yes, I'm all of y'all, and I was
just like, please, this is for me like a revelation
of how she was able to speak up and how
her friends were actually able to hear her so they
were able to actually give what they might write or
what they might say when they were sitting at the restaurant.
I was just like, sometimes that's what we need to hear.
(23:31):
We need to hear that you actually know me, that
you see me, that it's beyond I could do a
thanky lead right or that this is who I am
in your life. I'm more than just like my role
in your life. I am who I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I appreciated that. I hope we will get to see
more of that throughout the season because I was just like, man,
if you don't bring it on home. So going back
(23:54):
to knowing when you have outgrown certain relationships, So we
see thatsa Molly Kelly and this friend what's her name, Sharnie,
let's go with it. I think I think her name's
your name. They had some kind of like rap dance group,
I guess while they were in college. And so she
is there at three years something trap right traps up
(24:16):
that I don't remember what the name of it was,
and so they reunite with her, and then she has
this idea of going to Oakland to like some club
they used to visit, and so they're in the car.
This is when Kelly makes a comment about like, y'all
only see me as the funny person. They stopped for
gas and then there is what appears to be liquor, yes, liquor,
(24:38):
not gas sorry, at a gas station, but she directed
them like there's a liquor store right here, yes, yes,
And then we find out that she has actually set
them up to be robbed by you know whoever this
person is that she's working with right who knows little guys, whomever,
(25:01):
And so in that moment, I got really scary. It
felt to me like the episode last season when we
were feeling a little leary about the bus and like
the police officers outside the bus and oh my god,
what's gonna happen? And I was like, oh my gosh,
are we gonna take a turn right here? Like what's happening?
But of course turned out to be like a setup,
and she just wanted to take Molly's cardier, watching like
(25:23):
her shoes and their purchase and stuff. I just like
see nostalgia feels lovely. We want to go back into
the past. Sometimes we want to re experience it. People
tell you all the time, Oh, if I could go
back to high school, I would do it all again.
I'm looking like why, But I'm looking like nostalgia can
be dangerous. I'm looking like saying, kofa is you look
back and you look with a critical eye. You are
(25:44):
examining where you were versus where you are now lessons
learned that you can bring forward things that you've done
well that you want to continue, things that you did
not do so well, that you want to make sure
that you change. It's with a critical eye that one
looks back in and kofa nostalgia will get you into
trouble and you have you robbed and robby And was
(26:11):
it was it Kelly who said I never really liked her?
Wasn't it her who said that they didn't like her?
It was just like it was like, yeah, I always
knew I hated that girl, just like only y'all remember
that y'all had a fallen out, you didn't keep in
touch with purpose, and then your nostalgia you get caught
(26:33):
up and you want to be friends again and see
how someone has changed. I was like, see how they
changed in public space, Not in your car, not on
the way somewhere. No, because you don't still know that person.
You don't know what they have done, you don't know
what they have become. And I feel like it is
with nostalgia that most people get back with exes. You
(26:54):
get caught up in the good feelings of what it
was back then, especially if you're feeling a little down
on your life in the moment you want to go
relive your happy days, but don't forgot why you broke
up in the first place. And this is coming from
somebody that definitely married her X. How you're gonna come
in here with your celebration story and tell us don't
(27:16):
do it because we did. I was in sant kofa
not in the start, right, you did the work of
actually exploring, Okay, what happened, what have we learned, and
how might we move forward? Now? Yo, it was a
good like two months of just exploring of radical levels
of ugly honesty where it's like, I don't know how
(27:36):
I feel about you, I don't know if I like you,
I don't know if I love you in this moment,
and constantly being able to say those things which can
hurt somebody's feelings, to be quite honest, because we all
want to feel like we two be's knees and somebody's
thirsting for us and all that. And when you're having
that radical level of honesty of like, well, what broke
(27:57):
us up in the first place, why we break up?
What has changed in your life? What has changed in
my life? Where is it that you're trying to go.
Is this something that you feel like you're also willing
to do? What are the boundaries? What are the parameters
of us being together? We don't ask those questions. We
live in nostalgia. We want to live in the good fields,
(28:18):
not the more difficult ones. Exactly when strife comes back
to visit, we fall back into old ways of dealing.
Then it's like, Yo, you ain't changed, you ain't growing.
I'm looking like, well, number one, change is constant. I
don't know anybody that hasn't changed. It's the one thing
that the life guarantees us changed. Now, you can repeat
(28:38):
patterns forever if you refuse to learn, because a lot
of us we know better, but we don't do better.
And I feel like nostalgia gets you out of that
space of doing better. We just want to feel better.
And they wanted to feel so good with her that
they were in this that one position. Now, I'm not
saying that they have to take responsibility for that, because
(28:59):
that's out to be victim blaming. But I'm just like,
y'all didn't even really know her like that and didn't
like her according to them, Yeah, you're trying to pretend
like it did again. Yeah, yeah, trying to recapture some
of that college thing, right, I definitely see it right
when you get into your more adult life and people
have had kids and jobs, and you know, like the
(29:20):
idea of the freedom I think of your college experience
feels like something you want to revisit. But to your point, before,
we had real beings before deferred until after college. Ray,
you don't know the pain of a student loan until
you're not a student. Indeed, indeed now. The thing though,
(29:42):
that I did think was important about this whole scene
is that it did feel like it gave Molly and
Issa this new shared experience to bond over. Initially, they
didn't know that this wasn't real, and so they have
this traumatic, shocking experience to now have a new store
are you around? Right? Even though they're laughing later, it
(30:03):
is a new memory. I think that was able to
like push their relationship a little closer to one another. Yes,
And honestly, it's reminded me of like in couples work
or even in friendship work that I might do with therapy.
It's like, go do something new together, go have an
experience together. Like that helps to Number one have y'all
communicating in different ways. You get to see how you
(30:26):
feel about the other and yourself because when you're in
a new situation, your brain is on like hyper alert.
This is why people feel like they need a vacation
from their vacation. If you go somewhere new, your brain
is like, I don't know this place, and I don't
know these people's new sites. Knew all kinds of things exactly,
So everything is on like hyper focused, hyper awareness, just
(30:48):
you know, trying to keep you alive, because that's what
the body is made to do, so it's doing all
of that. Even in that situation, you know, they're like
hyper aware life, how are we keep ourselves alive here?
And they're trying to sho shine. It's like, you will
get us killed out here, like just hand over the stuff,
and just how they were bonded in that moment. It
(31:09):
was just like, oh, snap, let's keep each other alive.
That translates to, oh, yeah, we love each other, we
care about each other. So like just having that new
shared experience post messiness was needed. I think that there's
a little you know, the nostalgia and wanting to harken
(31:30):
back to what was back then. And recapture that stuff.
That's one piece of it, but that other piece was
just being able to be like, oh, okay, we have
a new experience together, and I remember that I actually
do like you more from my conversation with Dr Orio.
Oh after the break. So then the reunion wraps up,
(32:00):
everybody is headed back home. We see Issa comes out
of the airport and who is there to pick her
up but Lawrence, So hello Lawrence. We had what maybe
seven or ten minutes left in the episode before we
ever even saw or heard anything about Lawrence, right because
when she got to the airport, we didn't see who
dropped her all. So at this point we didn't know
(32:21):
where Lawrence was in the picture. But we do see
that she gets out of the doors and she kisses him.
So my mind, that means, okay, we have at least
still been talking during these two months. Word. I was like,
it was a very perfunctory kiss. I mean, it wasn't
a kiss though. It wasn't like a hug that you
give to your home girl who like just picked you
up from the airport. I might kids, I might getting
(32:42):
kiss on the cheek the cheek, but it wasn't a
kiss on the cheek and with some lip action there
you know. Oh no, it was a real and it
definitely it definitely. It wasn't like a passion and like
oh I missed you so much, kids, but it was,
you know, a kiss on the lips. Yeah. But we
see them driving back I guess to her apartment and
(33:02):
there is an awkwardness there also, but again the man
had to talk about the moon, about the moon, and
so it's like, okay, what has happened here? Like the
kiss indicates that there is still some level of like
familiarity and like connection, but then the drive almost was
as if like it's somebody she hadn't seen in some time,
and so it left me kind of confused as to like, Okay,
(33:25):
what has actually happened in these past two months? I like,
not even just hasn't seen in some time, but like
they don't really mess with each other. That's what it
felt like. It felt as awkward as what was less effort,
yes than what was being put forth with Lisa and
Molly's relationship. I was just like, yo, this is hangful, comrade. Yeah,
(33:46):
and so it's like okay, I mean, I'm sure we'll
see later. But had y'all not been talking and she
just called you for a ride from the airport, Like
what actually happened here? I wondering if he even volunteered. Mmmm,
not see that very because it's got some different energy, yes,
and he's trying to like establish some sort of longevity,
like you want to eat, you want some time food? Right?
(34:10):
Yeah about that? Give me to the house immediately. Look,
I am closed to you. I want I don't want
to break bread with you. I'm not trying to. I'm
not trying to chill with you, but any longer than
I have to, because what I have to do, what
I have to say to you, it's gonna be difficult.
And we're not get no food, right because that would
have just be labor at the point. Can you imagine? No, Um,
(34:34):
you want me to pack up this fool so that
you can leave now that I broke up. We do
finally get back to her apartment and he is going
to bring her bag up, and she says, I don't
think I can do this or something like that. So
it indicated that maybe they had been trying to like
keep up whatever was going, but now she has reconsidered
(34:55):
I'm guessing during her time away and really feels like,
you know, this isn't actually something I want to participate
in anymore, a k A pivot. She wanted to pivot. Yes,
I was just like, if you don't go ahead and pivot,
go ahead, because it was just like, yeah, number one,
(35:15):
that was a very awkward car ride. But her get
into that space of me and Neyble and be like, look,
we need to talk, Like number one, I appreciate it
on so many levels because a lot of people out
here be just ghost and people. That's all we do.
We don't want to talk to somebody in the more
we disappear off their lives. So despite the fact that
(35:35):
used to be mascary full of anxiety and sometimes does
not like to confront that stuff head on, she confronted
their head on, which for me felt a lot like
how she was on the panel confronting the thing and
speaking up, like when dudes said blocco the block, just like,
(35:59):
how are you on moderator? He ain't do no researcher act.
These people not right, but okay, okay, But it felt
like that where she was just like, look, I'm going
to correct and we need to set a new course.
And the course that we were going before no longer
works for me. I need to pivot. I need to
pivot away from this. I realized that this doesn't actually
help all serve me. It is not something that I
(36:20):
want for myself. I don't think that's gonna work, right.
I was just like, really appreciative. Now. The only thing
that I've changed the part she's like, I think I
would have been like, I don't want this. This is
not going to work. Short declarative sentences as opposed to
things that sound like you convinced me how it can work,
and I'll make it work. But to me, her language
(36:42):
fits better with their pattern, right, like this kind of
leaving the door open, and it was clearly just so
right we get that album like in the next two weeks,
isn't it November? Something that we are patiently awaiting. It
did feel like there was just so much sadness because
a breakup they had before was so painful, right on
(37:04):
both sides, I think. And so then we saw last
season that they had this great time hanging out together
and it felt like they could be moving in a
different direction. And then of course we find out that
Condola is pregnant and so it sounds like, or at
least what it alluded to, was that in this past
two months, maybe they had been trying to figure it out,
maybe trying to make something work, and she just realizes,
(37:25):
you know what, this actually is not something I think
I'm gonna be able to do anymore right now. Yeah.
I just like that she said it. Yeah, that's definitely
preferable to like just coasting through it, right and like
being silently miserable exactly. And I felt like that's what
she did season one, because which is how she ended
(37:45):
up cheating in the first place, right, exactly, all the
things that are left unsaid, that like when you're trying
to not have a fight with somebody else, you maintain
your silence but start a war within yourself. I just
love that she was able to say this is not
for me. And I feel like this is the pattern
that she's been picking up when she's being honest about
(38:06):
what she wants and what she needs from the people
around her and speaking more honestly about what does and
doesn't work for her, like within her relationship with Molly,
and I'm trying to now be good to each other,
as she told her mirrorself, and just being in that
space of being able to be like look, no, right,
(38:26):
and them little them little snaps, the little teasers. I
was just like, listen, so let us now move into
the teasers that they shared again. I feel like this
is what really put me over the edge because I
felt like I was just overloaded at that point. So
we never actually see the baby, I don't think, right,
did they show any teasers of the baby? You know,
I don't not recall single baby. I don't think so. So,
you know, we don't see any teasers of the baby,
(38:48):
but we do see it appears like in some of
the future clips that Lawrence has moved away, because they
talk about like he's now back in town. So it
appears that at some point in the future of this
season there's gonna be a considering is the door officially
closed with Lawrence? Yeah, And it even seems like she's
going to be fighting herself about like did I make
the right choice right, which, given that you know, she
(39:12):
already said something to that effect in the panel like
I could wake up tomorrow for the ways of my time,
I was just like, yeah, who knows what decision to
come back over? Oh of course it will, of course
it will. What else did we see in those future clips? Molly,
of course has a new hair cut in the Yes. Yeah,
(39:37):
I'm like, yes, please give us unobscured face, We're ready.
Anything else. I feel like it was also fast to me,
or maybe it was because I was already and emotionally
right right, It felt hard to know what the pay
attention to you. So also at the end, not not
the future clips where we saw the episode ending or
(39:58):
before the quite the very ending, we talk Kelly talking
in her podcast asking this question like, if you knew
this was the end, how might you prepare? What might
you do differently? So I wonder if we will see
more clips from Kelly's podcast throughout the season, that would
be pretty cool. Yeah, sort of framing the conversation because
I was just like, hmmm, this question, very poignant question.
(40:22):
And and at the same time, I think it's because
we continually like to forget that at some point all
of us die. So it's not if you knew the
end was coming, you know that the end has come
right right, We don't know, but we do know that idiots. Yeah,
And I feel like that's part of the fallacy of
make a decision when you're fifteen about what you want
(40:43):
to do for the rest of your life and never
pivot and never think about anything else and never want
anything else. It's part of the lie because it's like,
let's rush and hurry up and be in the careers
that we want, doing the work that we want. You
know that our fifty year old selves before we have
the fullness of our brain once and never think about death.
(41:06):
Not really, Let's bully each other into living these lives
that feel beneath us because of the anxiety and fear
that we have, Like we're gonna hurry up and get
to all the stuff that means that we're real people
that were real grown so that then we can try
to slow down what feels like this march of death.
(41:27):
Like young folks don't die. I'm looking like all people
die at some point. When they die, we don't know.
And yet the question was if you knew the end
was like the end is coming. I'm like, if you
knew that you were going to that tomorrow, what might
you do? Right? That's a good question, Like if you
knew that you got one month left, what you're send
to do out here? How would you spend your time?
(41:49):
It also felt like commentary on just the show itself.
So I shared on social media, like when we knew
that this was going to be the final season and
the cast started sharing all the you know, pictures from
season one and whatever, that it felt very meaningful that
they were giving each other and us space to say
goodbye appropriately to the shows I appreciate, right, And so
(42:10):
I felt like her commentary on her podcast was also
an opportunity to kind of talk about the ending of
the show, right, So they are saying goodbye to us
and allowing us into this world and kind of playing that,
I think into the themes that we're probably going to
see this season as well, like song playing in the
background to give a little I hadn't heard that song
(42:31):
before but clearly, but I went to go look it
up and done downloaded, and then everything, I'm like, thank
you Insecure for providing, thank you for another gift you've
given us. Yes, And I'm just like the lyrics in
that thing just it's like, you know, like I gave
an offering. They talked about how they signed a deal
(42:54):
that they settled for because they were Insecure, and I
feel like when the song starts playing and her progunta us.
You know she's asking this question, but I'm thinking about
what happened right before she's asking this question. It's it's
Molly and Easa having this conversation about time and how
she felt like she didn't have a lot of time,
(43:17):
and that the person that she was back then like, yes, you,
he just knew he was going to be successful and
he was just going with the flow and he wasn't
pressed over nothing like this is what Issa admired and
Molly that Molly stopped beating, that she stopped having because
she started feeling pressed for time. So there she is.
She signed a deal of a bunch of stuff that
(43:37):
she didn't really want with people that she wasn't really
digging because she felt so insecure. And I'm just like, yo,
this song, you love it, So what are you going
to be keeping your eye open for this season? I
want to continue to see how time plays a wrong
because it's like, yes, we know the end is coming.
(43:59):
I mean we noticed the last season. I'm happy they
didn't like sprang it on us like five episodes and right,
so we know we knew in that fans, and I
feel like we already started to have like this place
two more and the episode itself gave us so if
Kelly was gone, we got a little bit of morning
(44:19):
space there as well of remembering all the things that
we like that she offered that she brings to the
show with her character. I'm wondering if we're going to
get more of that, that piece of feeling like we
are saying some more final goodbyes. So I'm looking out
for that for like how we say goodbye, and then
the therapist and me is also looking for how we
(44:40):
greet the ending of a show that we love. Definitely that, Yeah,
I think I'm really looking forward to seeing how the
sisterhood between the women becomes an even bigger conversation this season,
right because you know, it seems like Lawrence might be
moving away until that to me opens even more space
for the conversations and the relationships between them and really
(45:03):
looking at like the complexities that exist there and how
that makes them stronger I think collectively but also individually,
Like I really feel like Issa had the strength to
like go back and have that conversation with Laurence because
she felt stronger in the relationship with Molly just a
little bit, right, And so I feel like she was
able to I don't feel like you don't have nothing right.
She was able to borrow on some of that connection
(45:25):
to kind of say, you know what, this actually doesn't
feel good to me anymore. I want to do something different.
But that's what I'm really looking forward to is seeing
how that all plays out this season. So you will
hear me and Dr oriole oh much of this season.
I'm sharing our thoughts about what we see going on
in the episodes. So if there are things that you
want us to cover, you can always send those questions
to us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com sash mailbox.
(45:47):
Themes that you want us to explore more, you can
definitely share those with us there. I'm so excited that
we get to talk about the season two, so much fun.
We get to say goodbye in the best way possible. Yes,
because I need a therapist. Thank you. I'm so glad
Dr Orio Wall was able to join me again and
(46:09):
chat about the show. Be sure to visit the show
notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com Slash Session
to thirty one to find out more about her work,
or to grab a copy of her workbook, Cocoa, Butter
and Hair grease and don't forget to text two of
your girls right now and tell them to check out
the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy
(46:31):
for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you
want to continue digging into this topic or just be
in community with other sisters, come on over and join
us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of
the Internet designed just for black women. You can join
us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com.
Thank you all so much for joining me again this week.
(46:52):
I look forward to continue in this conversation with you
all real soon. Take good care. Wending to bad foots
Wood
Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a
weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the
small decisions we can make to become the best possible
(00:22):
versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
(00:43):
is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with
a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
for joining me for session to one of the Therapy
for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get into the episode right
after a word from our sponsors. It's the moment we've
(01:16):
all been waiting for the fifth and final season of
HBO's Insecure premiere this week, and of course we had
to talk about it. My friend and colleague, Dr Donna
Orioo is back with us today to chat all about
what we saw in the premiere and what we might
expect for the rest of the season. In case you've
missed her before on the podcast, Dr Orioo is an author,
(01:36):
international speaker, and certified sex and relationship therapist in the Washington,
d C. Metro area. She's the owner of A Not
Right and specializes in working with black women on issues
related to colorism and texturism and its impact on mental
and sexual health. She's also the author of Cocoa Butter
and Hair Grease, a self love journey through hair and skin.
(01:57):
This episode does contain spoilers, so you haven't watched the
most recent episode, you definitely want to save it for later.
I know that y'all have lots of thoughts as well,
so please share them with us on social media using
the hashtag TVG in Session. Here's our conversation. Okay, so
much to chat about. When we were texting right after
(02:19):
the show went off, we both talked about feeling like
we were very very deep in our fields and I
wanted to spend some time checking in and like figuring out, like, Okay,
what am I really feeling about? Right? And so I
feel like a part of it for me was like
it felt like these old friends that I hadn't caught
up with in a long time. And I also recognize
(02:40):
that we got like season four right as the pandemic started,
after we were kind of all kind of home, and
so it felt like a reprieve. And so in some ways,
I think I have started to associate you know, like
good feelings, right, like a little bit of a break
from like all of the stress that is happening in
other places in the world on Sunday evenings for a
(03:00):
half hour with Issa and her friends. Yes, there's this
excitement around it. I'm going to watch really good entertainment
that is geared toward black folks by black folk. But
there's also a sadness because it's the first episode of
the last season, like beyond this season, we're not catching
(03:22):
up with Issa and the entire cast anymore, not in
the same way. So it's like, dang, this is the
beginning of the end. And the feelings that I was
having about just being back in you know, this insecure
space versus the feelings that they evoked with what was
going on in the episode, I was just like, Yo,
(03:42):
this is just kind of rich. I'm like, you want
to start off like this. I mean, the first episode
definitely pulled you in, But I think they also got
me when they like did the like season preview, right,
so when we got a chance to see what might
be coming up. I really feel like that is what
really like took me over the edge. You know, I've
already been started my speculation, Like we got lots of theories,
(04:05):
lots of theories about So we start the episode off
and we see that they are heading to a ten
year reunion from their graduation from Stanford. So I don't
know that I knew that all of them, or at
least Molly, Issa, Kelly Antiffany, had gone to Stanford. I
don't know how I missed that part of the story.
(04:27):
Let me tell you about the zero paying attention. It
feels like it's so much attention to clearly I missed
that glaring point and fun facts. So I saw that
Easter shared online that like, Stanford typically has a no
filming rule that they bended for Insecure, So shout out
to Stanford for that. All right, right, right, they're trying
(04:48):
to be put on the scene because none of them
IVY leagues looked all that good after all that that's happened.
But what was that last year? I mean was the
most recent mess of course. Yeah, So we see them
at the reunion, and I thought it was interesting that
we spend the majority of this episode with just them
(05:08):
at Stanford before like we ever see Lawrence, right, And
so of course that's what everybody's on their edge of
their seat waiting like, oh my gosh, what's happening. But
it actually felt very yes, it felt very fitting that
we spent the majority of this episode really digging in
with the friends, absolutely, because I feel like we get
so caught up in even in our own world, right,
(05:29):
this idea that romantic relationships take precedence over everything else,
And then this episode it was like, nah, it does
not take precedence over everything else. Their friendship is the point,
So let's get back to the point. And sometimes I
wish that people move back in that space. I mean
(05:49):
relationship anarchy. You know, it's about all relationships having some
value that you pick it, you talk about what it is,
what the parameters of that relationship are. And I felt
like this was just like, to me, it was like
like a baby nod to some level of relationship anarchy,
because it was not about let's pick up and figure
(06:10):
out what what Issa and Lawrence are gonna do. It's like, no,
let's actually pick up with these friendships, seeing them individually
and then seeing them come together. I feel like that
sort of that convergence was also important. Yeah. So I
think the timeline that they have set out is that
it has been two months since we last saw the group,
So two months have passed since Molly needs to have
(06:31):
that last conversation where we saw them getting together for
dinner and talking about can't we talk? At least from
what I was able to gather that they have still
been talking, still trying to figure what their friendship looks
like now. But stuff still feels very awkward. Oh yeah, beautifully.
So yeah, and I'm happy with that. Say more about that.
I think that everybody we're wanting to be okay so quick.
(06:52):
I'm looking like y'all the head the falling out, of
falling out. I mean, you called each other names. You
don't say at all this stuff. And I feel like
people don't really want to do repair work. And I
get it. A lot of us haven't been taught that.
Like if my parents were wrong, if mama was wrong
when we was growing up, it'd be like you hungry, right,
(07:12):
that was the repair exactly. And so we don't. We
don't talk about it, we don't give no energy to it.
It's come eat and get over this thing. It's not
even a big deal anymore, right, And a lot of
us have been taught to repair relationships similarly, So we
don't give it no real energy, we don't give it
no real time. We just want things to be better
(07:33):
because we want them to be better. Right now, So
that they were still in like this awkward space and
feeling almost like insecure within the context of their own relationship,
I was just like, yeah, I did that. And it's
also telling that they both have a lot going on
in their own individual lives. Right we see them talking
(07:54):
about how Molly is still kind of reeling from the
breakup with Andrew. I was very excited to hear her
reference her therapist telling her to be more present, right,
So she clearly is still meeting with her therapists, which
is cool. And then you know, so of course they're
trying to figure out whatever is happening with Lawrence, and
so they are individually dealing with I think a lot.
And then also their friendship is in a bit of
(08:14):
a disarray, but it seems very clear that they're still
very actively fighting to try to figure out like what
this new stage of their friendship is gonna look like.
Word like purposeful repair, And I think that's the part
that I love that it's like, yes, we're going to
do this work and not even like that. Molly was asking, like, yo, Kelly,
how long did it take y'all to repair your relationship?
(08:35):
Because I feel like I'm hanging on I'm trying to
and that she gave such an honest answer, like, yo,
it took a while we were fake back before we
were back back, right. It's just like if you don't
say so, what does the fake back look like? It
looks like laughing the jokes that are not funny, that
they're not funny, Just trying to hang in there. Word
(08:56):
it's trying to find something to talk about, but something
that's not too deep to talk about because you don't
want to say anything that feels controversial. It sort of
feels like when you meet people for the first time
and you want your best behavior. It feels like that,
but with some knowledge of what your best behavior has
to look like for the person that you're trying to
prepair with. I think we saw throughout the episode them
(09:18):
making like bids toward one another around like Okay, I
kind of want to be there, but I don't know
what that looks like and if she opened to this,
So I think we saw that throughout the episode. But
I love that they were checking in with each other.
It's like, Hey, um no, I'm gonna keep it low key,
did you Lisa? Did you want to chill? Right? Can
we chill with wine? Thank you for adding in the
(09:39):
parameter like yes, I need drinkings? Well yeah, I thought
that behavior from Molly to me seemed different than I
think I've seen of her in past seasons, because in
my mind, she had seen that like Lisa, maybe we're
struggling during this panel which we're gonna get into, but
that she picked up on like Okay, I probably need
to check in with my girl, like it feels like
something's going on here. And so to me, when she
(10:02):
was asking her like, Ohsa, do you want to kind
of keep it low key and chill, it felt like
she wanted to be there for her but didn't know
even exactly what that might look like or what Easa
needed in that moment. Yeah, And I like that she
gave space for us to be able to say whether
or not she wanted to recover with her and give
a little term of how they were going to recover
(10:23):
even that part where they're just walking used to start
going off and she's like, did you eat it right?
Just like if that ain't right, I'm angry exactly. You
sounded kind of angry right now, Let's make sure we
make sure that you eat, Like, let's let's meet an
immediate need. And I feel like that was her directly
taking Kelly's advice, because that was the one thing Kelly said,
(10:46):
like what is the need in the moment? And I
felt like she was looking for what the need could
be in the moment, but making no assumption about it,
but instead asking. And I feel like that to me
felt different than how the interactions had been in like
previous seasons. Mind you, I did not rewatch all the seasons.
I didn't even rewatch last season in preparation for this
(11:07):
because I was just like, you know what, I want
to see what it feels like when it stands on
its own with the knowledge being is there but it's hazy,
and I'm like, wow, I mean she like legit checking in,
checking in like hey, I want to do this? Is
this something that you want to do? And I was
just like, okay, I feel your girl, I ask that question, right,
(11:29):
I agree so getting back to the panel, so you know,
of course they're there for their teen year like reunion,
but Issa has also been asked to speak on a
panel about like entrepreneurship and distinguished alumni kind of thing.
I found it interesting that it feels like some of
the commentary that Issa offered, like around like her work life,
(11:51):
felt very similar to Season one Issa when she was
trying to like figure it out, what am I doing.
I kind of feel fulfilled in this, but I'm not
really sure or and so I thought the panel was
a very illuminating experience just around like how we don't
always have to have the answers. I was thinking about time,
like throughout watching this episode, this idea of time, the
(12:13):
concept of time and how it was spoken about, even
at the end of the episode, like the rap Kelly
asking that question at the end as give a Little
by um Ego was playing, It was like, if you
knew the end was coming, how would you spend your time?
Like that question, And like when I get back into
the panel, I'm just like the whole episode is saying
(12:34):
code for right, like we're looking back, we're starting at
where they started. They all started at Stanford together and
trying to get an idea of where they are right now.
And it was so fitting that you just said that
it felt like first season EASTA because I'm just our
time is a construct that we think of as linear,
that's not. It folds in on itself so that it
(12:55):
feels like season one EASTA to me makes sense because
she's had a completely new season of her life. So yeah,
she still got some figuring out to do. Like what
I was doing back then, I knew it wasn't me,
and what I'm doing right now feels better. I feel
more authentic, but I still can't say that I'm one
hundred percent sure. And I was just like, yo, thank
(13:17):
you for the truth of that answer, especially that question
like at what point did you feel stability? Right? Like,
when do you ever feel that? Honestly, I don't know,
I don't know. I was just like, how would I
answer this question? And I'm just like, when you listen
to everybody else's answer on the panel, the first person
(13:37):
said when they got validation from somebody else because they
gave them money. The second person said, when I got
validation from other people because they asked me for advice.
I'm looking like, look at both of them. The first
two answers were external validation, that's how I know I'm
on the right path type stuff. The third one was
just like I was able to quit that other job
that I didn't really want and that felt like, Oh,
(14:00):
that felt better. It felt like the move towards Yes,
this is for me. This is how I know I'm stable.
I'm stable because I don't have to give my time,
my energy, or give of myself in places that do
not feel good for me, and then used to bringing
at home with her answer like I don't know. I
don't feel it all the time, Like I could wake
(14:21):
up tomorrow and feel like I wasted my time, and
I feel like, yo, if that's not someone screaming at
all of us that we can pivot, that we can
change our minds, I don't know what is absolutely yeah,
And I also thought that it was an illustration of
some of the conversations you see online, or like some
(14:42):
of our behavior online, when we get into this tendency
of trying to compare ourselves to like what other people
are doing. Right, So this person has this great career,
and this person has this great family and all of
this stuff, but really, like everybody's story is their own,
and so it doesn't make your story any less or
better because you're in a different place. It's just different.
Her being on that panel, I thought was a real
(15:03):
illustration of how sometimes we get caught up in thinking
that I should look some way. When it looks whatever way,
it looks right, it just looks like what it is.
It's just the reality of it. That's such an a
two yourself. Yes, yes, I texted you to that less nime,
just like, Yo, this is reminding me is the Shout episode,
(15:27):
So you know, I had to go look it up
and go listen and everything, and I was just like, oh,
like seriously, the way that all just came together in
that space. There was like a touch of like nostalgia
and whimsy and awkwardness to this episode that I was
number one. I was really digging it and I was
feeling that awkwardness. I was like, oh, gosh, they are
not back, and you can tell that they are not back,
(15:51):
but they were getting into that space of nostalgia and
just like trying to be present in the moment, but
almost like they were trying to relive the past. And
this is one of those moments where I'm just like,
nostalgia is good to an extent, but let's shi could
get you into trouble. Listen, and we saw that clearly here, right,
(16:12):
so clear. But before we get to that, the other
part that I thought was really cool because you know,
we love when mirror bitch pops up, and so I
thought that this mirror bitch segment was really cool because
we see her talking to like college Issa, right, so
twenty one year or nineteen year old Issa, and like
this check in with yourself. If you were able to
(16:33):
go back and talk to like your college age self
or nineteen year old self, what would you say and
would she be proud of you? The part of that
conversation that I really loved college stuff is like, yo,
we got this practice with Molly, got this law firm,
and it was like, come on now, we didn't really
want that, right, And I was just like, if you
don't go ahead and say it, you don't say it.
(16:54):
This is why I thought that the whole thing was
about time, because I'm just like, how many of us
are still steady trying to live our fifteen year old dreams.
You were a child when they impressed upon you the
importance of picking what you're gonna be by the time
you're born. Number one, they're already gendering you and telling
you exactly what kind of partner you're gonna sleep with
(17:17):
and make babies with. Oh, this is your little boyfriend,
is your little girlfriyer. So we're already doing that. But
then they also voicing these careers on you, like, oh,
this one's gonna be a doctor. Oh, they're gonna be
at I'm looking like I'm not Jerry, come on, dr
Lawyer and Jena. So it's a constant thing. And just
like how when you're young, you really do want to
please your parents, that's your life, like how can I
(17:39):
please them? But some of us forget to let go
of the dreams of our parents and get our own dreams.
So I feel like just the fact that she was
able to see that the thing that she was doing
back then, trying to be a lawyer, didn't even fid
who she was or even who she is, and then
she was able to come to her own authentic self. No,
(18:01):
I mean it matches with what she gave her that panel.
She gave authenticity, like oh, I love my neighborhood. I'm
passionate about that ain't. Nobody was clapping for that, But
I'm looking like they don't need the clap for it,
because the reason that we do what we do is
highly personal, and too many of us are looking for
other people to validate our dreams in the first place.
And the fact that she was able to say what
(18:22):
she said and she was awkward, but I'm still digging
how authentic she was and even just having the conversation
that she had. Yeah, you know the other funny thing
I think about that panel, just noticing like what people
were clapping for versus what they weren't. I think that
is like also telling, right, like how people sometimes speak
(18:43):
in sound bites and say the thing that will be
quotable or whatever, but it's not actually the real thing, right,
Like in real life, I imagine that us comments like
there would have been a line of people waiting to
talk to her after this panel she touched on something
that they could really identify, like the kids in the
audience who have no idea that you know, what they
want to do, and like they're graduating next semester. So
(19:05):
that's how I imagine that would have played in real life. Yeah,
and I think that people like the narrative of oh,
you're an entrepreneur and it was easy for you, which
means now I can do it. And I'm just like, look,
but it's not easy for everybody. It's not simple, and
you know someone's simple sound bite, it's not gonna be
enough to sustain you when you're going through it and
(19:25):
when you're trying to make the thing work, or when
you grow the thing and realize that the stuff that
you was doing when you started can't be the same
stuff that you're doing now that you've been doing it
for a while. It got me thinking about my own business.
I'm looking like my entrepreneurial journey look mad different like
number one. I never intended. How about that lets started there?
I never intended. I was just like, you know, God
(19:48):
is the major bully right here, because I'm looking like
somehow I went from working for somebody else, which I
thought I was gonna be happy to do, to working
for myself, which granted, youse, Yes, it's been happier, but
it's also been more work. It's been more tears, it's
been more fighting, and I have had those moments where
I look like, just like what she said, I'm like, yo,
(20:09):
I could wake up tomorrow morning, I felt like I've
wasted my dad all time. Not but like sometimes I do.
Even if you don't wake up and say I wasted
my time, you can wake up and say I want
to do something different, right, Because I think that's the
other pieces that it doesn't have to be that it
was a waste of time. It just means that maybe
now you want to do something else. It's about the adaptability.
The adaptability allows us to pivot, allows us to feel
(20:32):
more free and not feel so constrained by the hands
of time. Because when we feel like we don't have
no time left, we start taking all kinds of mess,
acting out of desperation as opposed to like true intention
and desire exactly. So then we start having those conversations
about shoulds, where we're supposed to be, what we should
be doing by this time. And I'm like, all of
(20:54):
that is rooted and white supremacist ideals, especially once around
youth and how when you are young, you're worth something
and you building your life. And this is why so
many people have a fear of turning thirty. They feel
like their lives are over because they don't know that
throughout your entire life. You can pivot if you want
to pivot when you seven to five. You can pivot
(21:16):
if something no longer brings you joy, you can say
that you're finished with it. You didn't quit, You're not
a quitter. You are finished, and you get to pivot.
And there's your benediction, ladies and gentlemen. More from my
conversation with Dr Orio Oh after the break. So the
(21:43):
other thing that we see kind of running as a
theme at least throughout this episode. You know, we see
at registration like they don't have a name to head
for Kelly, and then we realize that somehow they have
now categorized her as like deceased, and so there's this
whole in memorium thing. So it feels like Kelly is
exploring through this episode like what she has been to
(22:05):
people and like her being the funny friend. You know
that they reduced her dad. She always had a purse,
she always had a good stinky league mm hmmm, And
it was just like such random, like little factoids which
to me spoke of they never really saw her. And
(22:26):
what I loved about this was how Kelly stood in
that like this is not okay. I'm like that she
was willing to make everybody uncomfortable in the Daggon car.
I was like, please do, please do, because they are
so invested in you being the funny friend at times
that I think they forget that she's got like legit
feels about stuff. I'm like and yes, she's funny and
(22:47):
in a lot of ways she can serve as a
relief of the tension that can be happening between various characters.
But I think that sometimes they forget to see her
as a whole person, and she demanded it in this episode. Agreed, Yeah,
I mean there is more complexity to her than just
like being funny exactly, and how she was like when
(23:08):
they were getting back in the car, I would haunt
you in yes, I'm all of y'all, and I was
just like, please, this is for me like a revelation
of how she was able to speak up and how
her friends were actually able to hear her so they
were able to actually give what they might write or
what they might say when they were sitting at the restaurant.
I was just like, sometimes that's what we need to hear.
(23:31):
We need to hear that you actually know me, that
you see me, that it's beyond I could do a
thanky lead right or that this is who I am
in your life. I'm more than just like my role
in your life. I am who I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I appreciated that. I hope we will get to see
more of that throughout the season because I was just like, man,
if you don't bring it on home. So going back
(23:54):
to knowing when you have outgrown certain relationships, So we
see thatsa Molly Kelly and this friend what's her name, Sharnie,
let's go with it. I think I think her name's
your name. They had some kind of like rap dance group,
I guess while they were in college. And so she
is there at three years something trap right traps up
(24:16):
that I don't remember what the name of it was,
and so they reunite with her, and then she has
this idea of going to Oakland to like some club
they used to visit, and so they're in the car.
This is when Kelly makes a comment about like, y'all
only see me as the funny person. They stopped for
gas and then there is what appears to be liquor, yes, liquor,
(24:38):
not gas sorry, at a gas station, but she directed
them like there's a liquor store right here, yes, yes,
And then we find out that she has actually set
them up to be robbed by you know whoever this
person is that she's working with right who knows little guys, whomever,
(25:01):
And so in that moment, I got really scary. It
felt to me like the episode last season when we
were feeling a little leary about the bus and like
the police officers outside the bus and oh my god,
what's gonna happen? And I was like, oh my gosh,
are we gonna take a turn right here? Like what's happening?
But of course turned out to be like a setup,
and she just wanted to take Molly's cardier, watching like
(25:23):
her shoes and their purchase and stuff. I just like
see nostalgia feels lovely. We want to go back into
the past. Sometimes we want to re experience it. People
tell you all the time, Oh, if I could go
back to high school, I would do it all again.
I'm looking like why, But I'm looking like nostalgia can
be dangerous. I'm looking like saying, kofa is you look
back and you look with a critical eye. You are
(25:44):
examining where you were versus where you are now lessons
learned that you can bring forward things that you've done
well that you want to continue, things that you did
not do so well, that you want to make sure
that you change. It's with a critical eye that one
looks back in and kofa nostalgia will get you into
trouble and you have you robbed and robby And was
(26:11):
it was it Kelly who said I never really liked her?
Wasn't it her who said that they didn't like her?
It was just like it was like, yeah, I always
knew I hated that girl, just like only y'all remember
that y'all had a fallen out, you didn't keep in
touch with purpose, and then your nostalgia you get caught
(26:33):
up and you want to be friends again and see
how someone has changed. I was like, see how they
changed in public space, Not in your car, not on
the way somewhere. No, because you don't still know that person.
You don't know what they have done, you don't know
what they have become. And I feel like it is
with nostalgia that most people get back with exes. You
(26:54):
get caught up in the good feelings of what it
was back then, especially if you're feeling a little down
on your life in the moment you want to go
relive your happy days, but don't forgot why you broke
up in the first place. And this is coming from
somebody that definitely married her X. How you're gonna come
in here with your celebration story and tell us don't
(27:16):
do it because we did. I was in sant kofa
not in the start, right, you did the work of
actually exploring, Okay, what happened, what have we learned, and
how might we move forward? Now? Yo, it was a
good like two months of just exploring of radical levels
of ugly honesty where it's like, I don't know how
(27:36):
I feel about you, I don't know if I like you,
I don't know if I love you in this moment,
and constantly being able to say those things which can
hurt somebody's feelings, to be quite honest, because we all
want to feel like we two be's knees and somebody's
thirsting for us and all that. And when you're having
that radical level of honesty of like, well, what broke
(27:57):
us up in the first place, why we break up?
What has changed in your life? What has changed in
my life? Where is it that you're trying to go.
Is this something that you feel like you're also willing
to do? What are the boundaries? What are the parameters
of us being together? We don't ask those questions. We
live in nostalgia. We want to live in the good fields,
(28:18):
not the more difficult ones. Exactly when strife comes back
to visit, we fall back into old ways of dealing.
Then it's like, Yo, you ain't changed, you ain't growing.
I'm looking like, well, number one, change is constant. I
don't know anybody that hasn't changed. It's the one thing
that the life guarantees us changed. Now, you can repeat
(28:38):
patterns forever if you refuse to learn, because a lot
of us we know better, but we don't do better.
And I feel like nostalgia gets you out of that
space of doing better. We just want to feel better.
And they wanted to feel so good with her that
they were in this that one position. Now, I'm not
saying that they have to take responsibility for that, because
(28:59):
that's out to be victim blaming. But I'm just like,
y'all didn't even really know her like that and didn't
like her according to them, Yeah, you're trying to pretend
like it did again. Yeah, yeah, trying to recapture some
of that college thing, right, I definitely see it right
when you get into your more adult life and people
have had kids and jobs, and you know, like the
(29:20):
idea of the freedom I think of your college experience
feels like something you want to revisit. But to your point, before,
we had real beings before deferred until after college. Ray,
you don't know the pain of a student loan until
you're not a student. Indeed, indeed now. The thing though,
(29:42):
that I did think was important about this whole scene
is that it did feel like it gave Molly and
Issa this new shared experience to bond over. Initially, they
didn't know that this wasn't real, and so they have
this traumatic, shocking experience to now have a new store
are you around? Right? Even though they're laughing later, it
(30:03):
is a new memory. I think that was able to
like push their relationship a little closer to one another. Yes,
And honestly, it's reminded me of like in couples work
or even in friendship work that I might do with therapy.
It's like, go do something new together, go have an
experience together. Like that helps to Number one have y'all
communicating in different ways. You get to see how you
(30:26):
feel about the other and yourself because when you're in
a new situation, your brain is on like hyper alert.
This is why people feel like they need a vacation
from their vacation. If you go somewhere new, your brain
is like, I don't know this place, and I don't
know these people's new sites. Knew all kinds of things exactly,
So everything is on like hyper focused, hyper awareness, just
(30:48):
you know, trying to keep you alive, because that's what
the body is made to do, so it's doing all
of that. Even in that situation, you know, they're like
hyper aware life, how are we keep ourselves alive here?
And they're trying to sho shine. It's like, you will
get us killed out here, like just hand over the stuff,
and just how they were bonded in that moment. It
(31:09):
was just like, oh, snap, let's keep each other alive.
That translates to, oh, yeah, we love each other, we
care about each other. So like just having that new
shared experience post messiness was needed. I think that there's
a little you know, the nostalgia and wanting to harken
(31:30):
back to what was back then. And recapture that stuff.
That's one piece of it, but that other piece was
just being able to be like, oh, okay, we have
a new experience together, and I remember that I actually
do like you more from my conversation with Dr Orio.
Oh after the break. So then the reunion wraps up,
(32:00):
everybody is headed back home. We see Issa comes out
of the airport and who is there to pick her
up but Lawrence, So hello Lawrence. We had what maybe
seven or ten minutes left in the episode before we
ever even saw or heard anything about Lawrence, right because
when she got to the airport, we didn't see who
dropped her all. So at this point we didn't know
(32:21):
where Lawrence was in the picture. But we do see
that she gets out of the doors and she kisses him.
So my mind, that means, okay, we have at least
still been talking during these two months. Word. I was like,
it was a very perfunctory kiss. I mean, it wasn't
a kiss though. It wasn't like a hug that you
give to your home girl who like just picked you
up from the airport. I might kids, I might getting
(32:42):
kiss on the cheek the cheek, but it wasn't a
kiss on the cheek and with some lip action there
you know. Oh no, it was a real and it
definitely it definitely. It wasn't like a passion and like
oh I missed you so much, kids, but it was,
you know, a kiss on the lips. Yeah. But we
see them driving back I guess to her apartment and
(33:02):
there is an awkwardness there also, but again the man
had to talk about the moon, about the moon, and
so it's like, okay, what has happened here? Like the
kiss indicates that there is still some level of like
familiarity and like connection, but then the drive almost was
as if like it's somebody she hadn't seen in some time,
and so it left me kind of confused as to like, Okay,
(33:25):
what has actually happened in these past two months? I like,
not even just hasn't seen in some time, but like
they don't really mess with each other. That's what it
felt like. It felt as awkward as what was less effort,
yes than what was being put forth with Lisa and
Molly's relationship. I was just like, yo, this is hangful, comrade. Yeah,
(33:46):
and so it's like okay, I mean, I'm sure we'll
see later. But had y'all not been talking and she
just called you for a ride from the airport, Like
what actually happened here? I wondering if he even volunteered. Mmmm,
not see that very because it's got some different energy, yes,
and he's trying to like establish some sort of longevity,
like you want to eat, you want some time food? Right?
(34:10):
Yeah about that? Give me to the house immediately. Look,
I am closed to you. I want I don't want
to break bread with you. I'm not trying to. I'm
not trying to chill with you, but any longer than
I have to, because what I have to do, what
I have to say to you, it's gonna be difficult.
And we're not get no food, right because that would
have just be labor at the point. Can you imagine? No, Um,
(34:34):
you want me to pack up this fool so that
you can leave now that I broke up. We do
finally get back to her apartment and he is going
to bring her bag up, and she says, I don't
think I can do this or something like that. So
it indicated that maybe they had been trying to like
keep up whatever was going, but now she has reconsidered
(34:55):
I'm guessing during her time away and really feels like,
you know, this isn't actually something I want to participate
in anymore, a k A pivot. She wanted to pivot. Yes,
I was just like, if you don't go ahead and pivot,
go ahead, because it was just like, yeah, number one,
(35:15):
that was a very awkward car ride. But her get
into that space of me and Neyble and be like, look,
we need to talk, Like number one, I appreciate it
on so many levels because a lot of people out
here be just ghost and people. That's all we do.
We don't want to talk to somebody in the more
we disappear off their lives. So despite the fact that
(35:35):
used to be mascary full of anxiety and sometimes does
not like to confront that stuff head on, she confronted
their head on, which for me felt a lot like
how she was on the panel confronting the thing and
speaking up, like when dudes said blocco the block, just like,
(35:59):
how are you on moderator? He ain't do no researcher act.
These people not right, but okay, okay, But it felt
like that where she was just like, look, I'm going
to correct and we need to set a new course.
And the course that we were going before no longer
works for me. I need to pivot. I need to
pivot away from this. I realized that this doesn't actually
help all serve me. It is not something that I
(36:20):
want for myself. I don't think that's gonna work, right.
I was just like, really appreciative. Now. The only thing
that I've changed the part she's like, I think I
would have been like, I don't want this. This is
not going to work. Short declarative sentences as opposed to
things that sound like you convinced me how it can work,
and I'll make it work. But to me, her language
(36:42):
fits better with their pattern, right, like this kind of
leaving the door open, and it was clearly just so
right we get that album like in the next two weeks,
isn't it November? Something that we are patiently awaiting. It
did feel like there was just so much sadness because
a breakup they had before was so painful, right on
(37:04):
both sides, I think. And so then we saw last
season that they had this great time hanging out together
and it felt like they could be moving in a
different direction. And then of course we find out that
Condola is pregnant and so it sounds like, or at
least what it alluded to, was that in this past
two months, maybe they had been trying to figure it out,
maybe trying to make something work, and she just realizes,
(37:25):
you know what, this actually is not something I think
I'm gonna be able to do anymore right now. Yeah.
I just like that she said it. Yeah, that's definitely
preferable to like just coasting through it, right and like
being silently miserable exactly. And I felt like that's what
she did season one, because which is how she ended
(37:45):
up cheating in the first place, right, exactly, all the
things that are left unsaid, that like when you're trying
to not have a fight with somebody else, you maintain
your silence but start a war within yourself. I just
love that she was able to say this is not
for me. And I feel like this is the pattern
that she's been picking up when she's being honest about
(38:06):
what she wants and what she needs from the people
around her and speaking more honestly about what does and
doesn't work for her, like within her relationship with Molly,
and I'm trying to now be good to each other,
as she told her mirrorself, and just being in that
space of being able to be like look, no, right,
(38:26):
and them little them little snaps, the little teasers. I
was just like, listen, so let us now move into
the teasers that they shared again. I feel like this
is what really put me over the edge because I
felt like I was just overloaded at that point. So
we never actually see the baby, I don't think, right,
did they show any teasers of the baby? You know,
I don't not recall single baby. I don't think so. So,
you know, we don't see any teasers of the baby,
(38:48):
but we do see it appears like in some of
the future clips that Lawrence has moved away, because they
talk about like he's now back in town. So it
appears that at some point in the future of this
season there's gonna be a considering is the door officially
closed with Lawrence? Yeah, And it even seems like she's
going to be fighting herself about like did I make
the right choice right, which, given that you know, she
(39:12):
already said something to that effect in the panel like
I could wake up tomorrow for the ways of my time,
I was just like, yeah, who knows what decision to
come back over? Oh of course it will, of course
it will. What else did we see in those future clips? Molly,
of course has a new hair cut in the Yes. Yeah,
(39:37):
I'm like, yes, please give us unobscured face, We're ready.
Anything else. I feel like it was also fast to me,
or maybe it was because I was already and emotionally
right right, It felt hard to know what the pay
attention to you. So also at the end, not not
the future clips where we saw the episode ending or
(39:58):
before the quite the very ending, we talk Kelly talking
in her podcast asking this question like, if you knew
this was the end, how might you prepare? What might
you do differently? So I wonder if we will see
more clips from Kelly's podcast throughout the season, that would
be pretty cool. Yeah, sort of framing the conversation because
I was just like, hmmm, this question, very poignant question.
(40:22):
And and at the same time, I think it's because
we continually like to forget that at some point all
of us die. So it's not if you knew the
end was coming, you know that the end has come
right right, We don't know, but we do know that idiots. Yeah,
And I feel like that's part of the fallacy of
make a decision when you're fifteen about what you want
(40:43):
to do for the rest of your life and never
pivot and never think about anything else and never want
anything else. It's part of the lie because it's like,
let's rush and hurry up and be in the careers
that we want, doing the work that we want. You
know that our fifty year old selves before we have
the fullness of our brain once and never think about death.
(41:06):
Not really, Let's bully each other into living these lives
that feel beneath us because of the anxiety and fear
that we have, Like we're gonna hurry up and get
to all the stuff that means that we're real people
that were real grown so that then we can try
to slow down what feels like this march of death.
(41:27):
Like young folks don't die. I'm looking like all people
die at some point. When they die, we don't know.
And yet the question was if you knew the end
was like the end is coming. I'm like, if you
knew that you were going to that tomorrow, what might
you do? Right? That's a good question, Like if you
knew that you got one month left, what you're send
to do out here? How would you spend your time?
(41:49):
It also felt like commentary on just the show itself.
So I shared on social media, like when we knew
that this was going to be the final season and
the cast started sharing all the you know, pictures from
season one and whatever, that it felt very meaningful that
they were giving each other and us space to say
goodbye appropriately to the shows I appreciate, right, And so
(42:10):
I felt like her commentary on her podcast was also
an opportunity to kind of talk about the ending of
the show, right, So they are saying goodbye to us
and allowing us into this world and kind of playing that,
I think into the themes that we're probably going to
see this season as well, like song playing in the
background to give a little I hadn't heard that song
(42:31):
before but clearly, but I went to go look it
up and done downloaded, and then everything, I'm like, thank
you Insecure for providing, thank you for another gift you've
given us. Yes, And I'm just like the lyrics in
that thing just it's like, you know, like I gave
an offering. They talked about how they signed a deal
(42:54):
that they settled for because they were Insecure, and I
feel like when the song starts playing and her progunta us.
You know she's asking this question, but I'm thinking about
what happened right before she's asking this question. It's it's
Molly and Easa having this conversation about time and how
she felt like she didn't have a lot of time,
(43:17):
and that the person that she was back then like, yes, you,
he just knew he was going to be successful and
he was just going with the flow and he wasn't
pressed over nothing like this is what Issa admired and
Molly that Molly stopped beating, that she stopped having because
she started feeling pressed for time. So there she is.
She signed a deal of a bunch of stuff that
(43:37):
she didn't really want with people that she wasn't really
digging because she felt so insecure. And I'm just like, yo,
this song, you love it, So what are you going
to be keeping your eye open for this season? I
want to continue to see how time plays a wrong
because it's like, yes, we know the end is coming.
(43:59):
I mean we noticed the last season. I'm happy they
didn't like sprang it on us like five episodes and right,
so we know we knew in that fans, and I
feel like we already started to have like this place
two more and the episode itself gave us so if
Kelly was gone, we got a little bit of morning
(44:19):
space there as well of remembering all the things that
we like that she offered that she brings to the
show with her character. I'm wondering if we're going to
get more of that, that piece of feeling like we
are saying some more final goodbyes. So I'm looking out
for that for like how we say goodbye, and then
the therapist and me is also looking for how we
(44:40):
greet the ending of a show that we love. Definitely that, Yeah,
I think I'm really looking forward to seeing how the
sisterhood between the women becomes an even bigger conversation this season,
right because you know, it seems like Lawrence might be
moving away until that to me opens even more space
for the conversations and the relationships between them and really
(45:03):
looking at like the complexities that exist there and how
that makes them stronger I think collectively but also individually,
Like I really feel like Issa had the strength to
like go back and have that conversation with Laurence because
she felt stronger in the relationship with Molly just a
little bit, right, And so I feel like she was
able to I don't feel like you don't have nothing right.
She was able to borrow on some of that connection
(45:25):
to kind of say, you know what, this actually doesn't
feel good to me anymore. I want to do something different.
But that's what I'm really looking forward to is seeing
how that all plays out this season. So you will
hear me and Dr oriole oh much of this season.
I'm sharing our thoughts about what we see going on
in the episodes. So if there are things that you
want us to cover, you can always send those questions
to us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com sash mailbox.
(45:47):
Themes that you want us to explore more, you can
definitely share those with us there. I'm so excited that
we get to talk about the season two, so much fun.
We get to say goodbye in the best way possible. Yes,
because I need a therapist. Thank you. I'm so glad
Dr Orio Wall was able to join me again and
(46:09):
chat about the show. Be sure to visit the show
notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com Slash Session
to thirty one to find out more about her work,
or to grab a copy of her workbook, Cocoa, Butter
and Hair grease and don't forget to text two of
your girls right now and tell them to check out
the episode. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy
(46:31):
for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you
want to continue digging into this topic or just be
in community with other sisters, come on over and join
us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of
the Internet designed just for black women. You can join
us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com.
Thank you all so much for joining me again this week.
(46:52):
I look forward to continue in this conversation with you
all real soon. Take good care. Wending to bad foots
Wood
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