June 22, 2022 • 31 mins
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
Although restrictions related to COVID 19 may have lessened around the country, the risk has not gone away. Vaccines have been an important part of protecting our health throughout the pandemic but so far they haven’t been available to children under the age of 5 which has left parents and caregivers in a very difficult position. Last week, the FDA authorized use of the vaccine in this age group so we can expect administration in this group to start soon but if you’re a parent or caregiver, you probably have lots of questions. Joining me this week to help answer some of these questions is board-certified pediatrician, Dr. Nina Ford Johnson.
Dr. Johnson has been serving the families of the Mobile, Alabama area for 10 years. With her expertise in serving children of all ages Dr. Ford has been a go to voice for Black children’s health during the pandemic. Her recent national campaign “I’m a Mom First” is by moms and for moms who have concerns about vaccinating their children.
Our conversation explores what’s in the COVID vaccine and how it works, breaking down common concerns and debunking myths around the vaccine, how to identify covid symptoms at home, and she shares advice to caregivers who might be struggling with the decision to have their children vaccinated.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship
with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so
(00:57):
much for joining me for session two sixty three of
the airp for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into
our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Although restrictions
related to COVID nineteen may have lessened around the country,
(01:19):
the risk has not gone away. Vaccines have been an
important part of protecting our health throughout the pandemic, but
so far they haven't been available as the children under
the age of five, which has loved parents and caregivers
in a very difficult position. Last week, the FDA authorized
use of the vaccine in this age group, so we
can't expect administration in this group to start soon. If
(01:41):
you're a parent or a caregiver, you probably have lots
of questions. Joining me this week to help answer some
of these questions is Dr Nina Ford Johnson. Dr Johnson
is a board certified pediatrician who has been serving the
families of the Mobile, Alabama area for ten years. With
her expertise and serving children of all ages, Dr Johnson
(02:02):
has been a go to voice for black children's health
during the pandemic. Her recent national campaign, I'm a Mom First,
is by moms and four moms who have concerns about
vaccinating their children. Our conversation explores what's in the COVID
vaccine and how it works, breaking down common concerns and
debunking myths around the vaccine, how to identify COVID symptoms
(02:24):
at home, and she shares advice to caregivers who might
be struggling with the decision to have their children vaccinated.
If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please
share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG
in Session or join us over in the sister circles
to talk more in depth about the episode. You can
(02:44):
join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com.
Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining
us today, Dr Johnson. Thank you. I'm so glad to
be here. Thank you for just having me. Yeah, So
this is such an important topic and it feels like
there's new information almost every day, right, So I would
(03:05):
love for you to get started. I know that when
we talk about children, there's lots of anxiety, lots of
concerns about perhaps getting your child vaccinated with the covidacine vaccination.
Can you talk to us a little bit about what
the vaccine is and what it does for children. And
this is such an important conversation because we are seeing
cases starting to uptick a little bit and our children,
(03:29):
and so it's so important that we still tell our
parents and their family members how important it is for
these children to get vaccinated. This covid vaccine is very safe.
It does not have any eggs, it does not have latex,
it does not have any preservatives whatsoever. The vaccine, as
we call it, is very clean and it is made
(03:51):
with excellent technology by our medical scientists. So we're so
proud of this vaccine. This vaccine contains a couple of
salts like magnesium and others. It contains lipids, which allows
the vaccine to deliver it very effectively to what it's
supposed to, and it contains m RNA and it does
(04:12):
not change the child's DNA. It basically tells the immune
cells to protect against the virus and it allows them
to protect against the spike protein. And the spike protein
of COVID nineteen is what causes this virus to be
so virulent and very scary, and it does freak havoc
(04:34):
in our immune systems of our children and adults. And
then once the m RNA does what it's supposed to
do into the cells, it degrades very rapidly and does
not cause any problem. So it does not change the
person's DNA at all. It just allows it to be
very effective for what it's supposed to do. So, Dr Johnson,
(04:55):
can you break that down into maybe simpler terms because
some of the words I understand and what you're saying,
but I definitely want to make sure people understand exactly
what the vaccine does for the kues. M RNA is
basically as a as a cousin. We can say to
d NA, which basically genetic code that makes us also
different and very special. And so the vaccine basically is
(05:18):
encoded into the m RNA, which is is basically put
in m morna, which allows it to go into our
different cells which helps us fight different viruses and bacteria
and the like, and COVID nineteen it produces a protein
and basically this protein is called spike, and it allows
(05:41):
the spike protein that COVID nineteen produces to attack different
cells of the body, which is where we see why
COVID nineteen has caused a lot of problems with the lungs.
So it attacks the lungs, it can attack the heart,
it can attack blood vessels. So you'll see a lot
of people, especially when COVID nineteen first came out, it
(06:05):
coust a lot of clots and stuff like that, so
it'll attack that system as well. And so what the
vaccine does it causes an antibody which basically fights that
spike protein. If someone was to become in contact with
COVID nineteen, so they've already produced an immune response to
(06:26):
the virus even before they've even been introduced to the virus,
meaning before they've even got infected with it. So this
vaccine is very good and I hope that helps. It
does it does, So it's basically helping you, like, should
you become infected, if you get the vaccine, it helps
your body to fight against that infection. So then maybe
you don't become asset as you might if you didn't
(06:48):
have the vaccine. That is correct, That is very correct.
Thank you got it? Got it okay? And so you
mentioned that there's no eggs, no layes hex. So those
are some of the common concerns with other vaccinations. And
I know that for some of the very early childhood vaccinations,
you often hear parents talk about like trying to space
them out or do we give them all at once?
Is there any concern with having to space this out,
(07:09):
say from your regular flu shot or from other vaccinations
that a child might have. Good question, But no, again,
this vaccine is very good. I've actually given it in
conjunction with the flu shot, same day, same time. I've
actually given it in conjunction with a child who came
in for their yearly check up and they needed shots.
And so for like my eleven year old to come
(07:31):
in ready to go to middle school and needing those
shots to get in. They've actually received that vaccine as well,
right along with the other ones and have done completely fine.
So there's no need to face out any of your
other vaccines to get that COVID vaccine. Or also, if
you were to get the flu shot when it is
flue season, it's okay to get the COVID vaccine right
(07:52):
along with it. Got it. And are there any fine
effects or risk that you have found or heard about
related to the vaccine for kids? Good question. The main
thing that I've seen our fevers, so a fever for
like a day or so, and of course you may
get some armed tenderness and they hurt where the shot
(08:14):
was given, and that may happen for a couple of days.
Another side effects are just chills or feeling more fatigued
or tired than usual. Again, those symptoms just usually last
twenty four to forty eight hours, just a couple of days.
I say, take some motoring, get plenty of liquids, get
plenty of rest, like you would with any vaccine, like
(08:36):
you would with the flu shot or of anything like that,
and those usually go away. You know, Dr Johnson, I
feel like I've heard lots of different information about how
COVID actually impacts kids right so, and it feels like
maybe sometimes that the severity of how sick kids get
is different between the different streams right now, so I
(08:57):
knew that there's like a new stream I think on Harrizing,
can you see a little bit about how COVID nineteen
does show up in kids, like is it typically less
severe than we see an adults or you know, should
we be just as concerned about kids being infected with
COVID nineteen as adult? You know what, from what I've
seen in my office, the symptoms are less severe. So
(09:18):
a kid I saw two weeks ago just had like
a little cold, stuffy nose, barely even had a fever,
So that was his symptoms. And so COVID nineteen is
a virus, so it affects you from head to toe.
So headaches, you may get, some red eyes, running nose,
sore throat, you may cough a little, vomiting, diarrhea again
(09:39):
affects you from head to toe. So usually the symptoms
that I've seen in my office mainly look like the flu,
or may come in looking like a stomach virus because
they got a lot of vomiting and diarrhea. Because of that.
Very rarely have I had to admit. One of my
children who had COVID nineteen one did get a at it,
(10:00):
but this child had several other chronic ailments and conditions,
and so a couple of long term effects though I
have seen with kids with COVID, and those have been
more so my teenagers, where they've had headaches for long
periods of time, or one had issues with her taste
(10:21):
and so couldn't taste or couldn't smell things for like
a couple of months and so lost weight because of
that fatigue. Or they had what we call that brain
fog when they couldn't really think through like their school work,
so they had to go to homeschool and not do
in person school. So that's been a couple of effects.
(10:42):
But I will say this, it is still very very
important for children to get the COVID vaccine because I
believe it was last year, I can't remember the year,
but it was the eleventh cause of death of children
in the United States. So it's still very serious, and
it's still very important for children of African American descent
(11:05):
to still get the COVID vaccine because I hate to
say it like this, but this is true. When white
people get a cold, Black people get flu or pneumonia,
So it does affect us more serious. So our rates
are higher for hospitalization and serious illness because of this
than other nationalities. More from my conversation with Dr Johnson
(11:26):
after the break, he can you speak to a little
bit about why that is. That's a good question, and
we really don't know why. I'll say, there's black women.
We've seen COVID affect us pretty hard, and we are
(11:49):
more prone to get conditions like lupus and other things
like that, other autoimmune problems, and so we're wondering if
it's because maybe the clotting system is friend because when
it first came out, we thought we were going to
be safe from COVID nineteen because majority of us have
OH positive blood. But that's not true at all. So
we really don't know why. We don't know if it's
(12:11):
because it's late presentation. Are we coming to our doctors
too late to be treated? Is it because the medical
system still does not I'm trying to say this where
I won't offend anyone but still tell the truth, right,
And so when we come and when we go to
the emergency room, and when we go to the doctor,
(12:33):
it's usually at a last resort, right. We try to
do our best at home, take all the medicine and
everything we can before we go to our doctor. So
is it because we're showing up sicker than usual? Then
we would have if not. And so when this first
illness first came out, I told the medical society and
the community here locally in Mobile County and Alabama that
(12:57):
when your patients arrive to the e R or to
your office, believe them when they say that they're sick,
because they wouldn't come otherwise. They're not just gonna show
up just to show up. They're having to take off work,
they're having to get to the e R or to
their doctor's office the best way they can. And they're
not just showing up just because it's something for them
(13:17):
to do. They're showing up because they're ill and you
have to take them serious for m hmm, yeah, I mean,
and I think that speaks to the long standing like
institutional racism we see, right, so the misinformation that has
existed related to lots of different illnesses and medical experience.
I mean, there's a long history. And then know that
a lot of that has fed into some of these
(13:38):
concerns as well. Definitely, definitely, And so that's why it's
so important that what you're doing and what others are
doing is putting out correct and right information for our
communities to receive. You mentioned a lot of symptoms, Dr Johnson,
and I'm in Georgia, and so all of this stuff
with like running nose and scratchy throat and all of
that also sounds like allergies. And I'm wondering for our kids,
(14:02):
should we be using like the COVID nineteen at home
tests to test them if they have any of these symptoms,
or should we bring them strange the doctor's office, Like
how should you proceed with any of these concerns or
any symptoms you've mentioned. You know, that's a good question.
And allergy season is big right especially around this time
of the year and sometimes all year round. So if
(14:23):
you have to know your children, if you see them
like running nose and cough and congestion, but now they're
sleeping more than usual or they're not eating as much,
then that would be the time to either do it
at home test or take them to their doctor to
find out what's going on. But especially if they have
other past medical problems like asthma or something like that,
(14:44):
or even high blood pressure diabetes. Those are the kids
who you don't want to play around with, who it
will not hurt for them to be seen by their
doctor just in case, because we know that if a
child or an adult has other comorbidities like diabetes, high pressure,
having to use a c PAP because they have sleep apnia,
then those are concerns that they need to see their
(15:06):
physician quicker than someone who does not have any medical
problems at all. Got it? And R. Johnson, what is
the latest update about vaccinations for children under five? So
I hear these parents and my heart goes out of them, right,
because it does feel like there's a large segment of
our population who just have not had any options, like
(15:27):
they're too young for the vaccine, and a lot of
them are too young even from mass And so what
is the latest update about when we might expect any
information about vaccines for kids younger than five? Good question,
because my three are all younger than five, and so
I'm ready. They got to go to school right without delay.
(15:47):
So what I've been hearing is that by the end
of june's a good possibility that the vaccine will be
ready for them, and it's at eight percent effective, which
is still really good. The COVID vaccine for US adults
is around, but I will still take for those five
and under children, and so as soon as that is available,
(16:09):
I do recommend. I was looking at the news and
I saw this update while I was in the bed,
and I turned over. I said, well, my kid's gonna
be first in line, Chad, because they need that vaccine
because they're sick so often, they're exposed to so much.
You know. Of course they see me with my mask,
but my kids are three and they're not even trying
to wear a mask. I put it on their face
and it's all here or here, it's everywhere. So yeah,
(16:32):
so as soon as it comes out for them, I
totally recommend it. For those six months and older, got
it And will it also be two doses or is
the doss changed for children you're going than five. I
think it will be two doses, and it may even
be three. So and I think it's like, you know,
you get one, that child gets one, and they come
back in about a month and get that second dose,
(16:54):
and then we'll see what they say about when the
third one should be given. So I think it's at
least two, but it may be right, got it, Got it.
We've already talked about some of the concerns around why
our community is sometimes hesitant to believe that we should
trust vaccines and all of those things, and what kinds
of information are wisdom would you like to share for
(17:15):
parents who might still feel a little hesitant about vaccinating
their children. Yeah, and it's a difficult conversation to have,
but a necessary one. And we don't want to just
give our children shots just willy nilly. But these vaccines
have been tried and proven. Right, we don't see people
with smallpox walking around or yellow fever or polio anymore
(17:36):
in our modern day society. And so that's because the
vaccines work. And so I encourage parents. And there's still
parents even in patients I take care of, who are
against it. And they've seen my commercial, right, they see
me on TV, they've heard me on the radio, and
they're still hesitant. But the main thing is I don't
try to brow beat them about it. I just encourage
(17:56):
the conversation. If they say no today, they may say
no the next time. They may say no a year later.
You know, we talked about it more often. What kind
of concerns they have? So talk to your pediatrician about
it and get the right information. M Yeah. So you
know the other thing, Dr Johnson, is that we are
seeing now on the news about monkey pox. Is this
(18:17):
something that we should be concerned about? And I don't remember.
Is there a monkey Pops vaccination we get its children? No,
not at all. I saw the Lord. I said, Lord,
I can only take one thing. So luckily I don't
know what's going on with this monkey Pops thing. I'm
sure we'll get more and more information about it. It's
(18:38):
nothing that I've seen in my office or anything yet,
nothing that they're warning us against. Then we need to
be out on the lookout for. There's nothing that the
state Public Health Department has put out and says, hey,
you need to watch out for this and this yet,
so when it comes time, we'll be ready. But right now,
just to have parents just concentrate on this and then
(19:00):
we'll move on to the next thing, because there's always
the next thing. Yeah, understandable. So what other vaccines do
we get those? As kids? I feel like, you know,
I have two young ones, and so I don't remember
all of what they've gotten or what all I got
as a kid. So what other vaccines are kids typically getting,
Like you know, there are shots or school so to speak,
whooping cough, polio vaccine. Again, I was telling somebody, like,
(19:24):
the last time I saw somebody with polio was my
great aunt Flossie. It was a beautiful woman, but she
had one leg that was shorter than the other because
she had polio. But that's something that we protect against.
Chicken pox. I had chicken pox as a child, but
they didn't have the vaccine available. And so my sister,
who is eight years younger than me, she's never had
(19:45):
chicken pox because she's had the vaccine. And so we
like to vaccinate against different strands of hepatitis, which is
an infection of the liver that is caused by a
virus and that can be given to people or children
by something as simple as eating something that is not
cooked properly, and so that's something we like to protect
(20:06):
against as well. And there's a numerous other bacteria we
protect against that can cause pneumonia and meningitis, pneumonias and
an infection of the lungs and meningitis is an infection
of the brain, so we protect against that for children
and our teenagers, especially the ones who are going off
to high school and college as they start living in
(20:28):
those close communities and quarters where it's more easily to
catch something than another child who may not be living
with their classmates. There are a number of vaccines and
stuff that we protect our children against, but it's very necessary.
Thank you for Dr Johnson. More from my conversation with
Dr Johnson after the break. The other conversation that I
(21:00):
think that has been happening in parallel to the conversation
around vaccines is also the mental health tool that this
has taken on our kids. There's lots of new research
coming out talking about anxiety getting higher in kids. We
do see, sadly, an increase in youth suicide rates, and
so can you talk a little bit about some of
(21:20):
the mental health impact we've seen from the pandemic on children. Yeah,
and it's been really challenging, especially the anxiety portion of
it that we're saying. I'm having kids who are in
elementary school having issues dealing with going out in public
now to the point where they don't like to go
to the store. They just want to stay at home
(21:42):
and parents are having to homeschool them. They are actually
saying like their stomach hurts. Their mental health problems is
now becoming more somatic, meaning they're blaming it on a
headache or they're having issues with their stomach and having
to see different specialists, and the specialists telling them, hey,
your stomach is totally fine, but it's all up here.
(22:04):
And so the main thing I tell with parents is
to have real conversations with your children and be upfront.
Even if you have anxieties or something that makes you
concerned or nervous yourself, say hey, I understand what you're feeling,
because mommy is also feeling a little concerned about this
as well. But as your mother, as your parents, that
(22:24):
is my job to take care of you, so you
don't have to worry about that. And so seeing the
anxiety portion has been very concerning, and there have been
some uptick and depression, and some of the depression I
think has to deal with loss of family members. So
I have several kids who are now orphans because of
the COVID, and so you have to talk about these
(22:46):
mental health issues and our children. But also in some
of these surviving parents, because I've had children who've lost
grandparents due to COVID and that was their primary caregiver.
So it's been very challenging these past couple of years
having to navigate the system. Where as you know, Dr Joy,
it's not funded as well, especially in our communities, giving
(23:09):
them the resources that they need to be successful in
terms of that because the mental health portion plays such
a key part in their academics and also their physical
well being. You talked about, you know, the loss of
family members that I think a lot of kids also
like the loss of social interaction. There was a time
they were back in school or they were doing virtual school, right,
(23:30):
and so I think the loss of just like hanging
out with their friends and all of that has lived
to maybe some increase in depression and anxiety. Definitely, definitely,
and now they just miss a um. I took my
kids to Disney World at the end of last year
and they couldn't give Mickey Mouse a hug. It's really
just a small thing. So I know that you are
(23:51):
a pediatrician by training, and so mostly you see the
little people, but you also come into contact with their
parents right when parents are bringing and so what kinds
of conversation have you been having with parents about their
own mental health, because that has been a huge tool
as well. It's so important, especially my mom's who just
had babies and so you have postpartum depression and we're
(24:11):
talking about that, and so then you're wondering, like, in
the height of COVID, what could my child get COVID
because they're at daycare. Also, make sure that my parents
and my grandparents are staying on top of their physical
health in terms of making sure they're getting their annual checkups.
Don't forget your mammograms, don't forget your colonoscopies, all those
(24:32):
other things that sometimes gets put off because of COVID.
They don't want to go to the doctor because they're
scared they're gonna get COVID. Yeah, all that has been
very real. It has felt very hard, I think, to
make some of those decisions. And I think that's where
some of the frustration has come, is that it doesn't
feel like there was a largely like solid messaging in
place to help people figure out how to determine their
(24:53):
risk around certain things exactly exactly. And so that's why
it's still so important that they hear because people are
still dying from heart attacks, they're still dying from strokes.
Kids now more than ever, especially at home, we're seeing
what the COVID fifteen, the COVID twenty pounds more because
they're eating so much. So we're still seeing diabetes and
(25:15):
high blood pressure and our children. So it's still something
that you hate, even though we may be in a
pandemic or hopefully starting to inch our way out of it.
You can exercise, you can go outside, get some of
that vitamin D. So you bring up another good point
around people have different opinions around vaccinations for kids, and
I think that this has cautome tension. I think even
(25:35):
in families. Let's say you have a sister who has
kids that she doesn't plans and vaccinate, Like, is it
still okay for them to have play dates with other
people who are not vaccinated? Can you give us some
guidelines around how we should move forward with kids in
terms of maybe interacting with other kids who may not
be vaccinated, or how do we make some decisions around that?
And that could be tough because you don't want to
(25:56):
shelter your own children, right You can ask the parent
you are they having any symptoms, any cough front he knows,
do your activities outside instead of in a confined space,
So at a park where everybody's running around and doing
everything like that. Like I said, just plant the seed.
And if they don't accept it then and that's okay
(26:16):
because at least you did what you know, you thought
was right. If they know we're coming from a good place,
then I think people will be more apt to receive
and well, thank you. So are there considerations or things
we should be thinking about in preparation for I know,
one school year just into maybe not even for some
people right, but in thinking about going back to school
in August? All the things we should be thinking about
(26:38):
in terms of talking with teachers around like mitigating risks.
Are there anything that you suggest for that we still
keep up that good hand hygiene. We still gotta wash
our hands. We still have to make sure we keep
our hands out of our face and out of our mouths.
Even as adults, we still have to do that. The
child shot records and all that stuff is up to date.
(26:58):
You want to encourage your kids is to make sure
they're seen by their physician for their annual check up
so we can talk about even school readiness. Right, every
time I see a kid come in for an office visit,
whether they're sick or well, I always ask them how
they're doing in school, because to me, that shows such
an important part how their physical and their mental health
(27:20):
is doing, is how are they doing in school? And
so we can talk about things like are they having
issues with attention or how do you feel their reading
comprehension is doing, or their math or or their handwriting
skills and stuff like that, so that's something to be addressed.
And then we can also their speech so that way,
(27:40):
like during the summer, we can send him the speech
therapy or occupational therapy or even behavioral therapy, so we
can work on some of those attention and focusing things,
so we can get the ball roling during the summer
so they can make progress so by the time school
years starts still be ready or on a better foot
than they were before they ended the school year. Thank you, so,
(28:01):
Dr Johnson, Can you tell us a little bit about
your educational background and your path lead to you the
work that you do now? Yeah, thank you. My family's
in Atlanta. I'm a graduate of Stone Mountain High School
and then I went to Tennessee State in Nashville, where
I did my bachelor's degree in biological sciences. And then
I graduated from Harry Medical College, which is right down
(28:23):
the street in Nashville, where I got my medical doctorate,
so to outstanding historically black college and universities that I
really hold dear to my heart. And then I did
my pediatric training at Baylor College in Medicine in Houston, Texas.
And now I've been practicing in Mobile, Alabama. They also
call it l a Lower Alabama, and I'm glad to
(28:46):
be here. So I'm curious to just here how being
a pediatrician has changed for you five years ago versus
what your practice looks like now, Like, what has that
changed look like. I'm definitely more busy, but I'm grateful
for it. I've got more gray, so I have more wisdom.
My patients and my parents take me a little bit
(29:07):
more serious. And then it also helps that over the
past what three years now going on for I became
a mom, and so I think parents appreciate that perspective
because now I can give them some tips on what
I've done and some things that I was dead set on,
you know, stop the bottle at one year of age
and stop that pacifier at one year of age. Now
(29:28):
I can tell them what happened for for me and
my kids and how it was a little bit different
and so definitely more understanding to the plight of parents.
And what is it that you do. Do you have
a private practice in Mobile or are you doing something else? Yeah?
I had worked with three other great pediatricians and a
group practice in Mobile, Alabama. We don't see any hospitalized kids.
(29:49):
We used to before a certain period of time about
four or five years ago, we did, but we cut
that out of our practice, so now we just see
our patients totally in the office. Thank you, Dr Johnson.
And where can people find you? Do you have a
website you'd like to share? And are you on any
social media? Yeah? I am not really on Instagram. I
am somewhat on Twitter, definitely more on Facebook, but slacked
(30:14):
off in the past couple of months just because kids
in life has just gotten so busy. But Dr Nina
f j on Twitter and Nina for Johnson on Facebook
and your practice website, Oh yes, yes, yes, so actually
we're just on Facebook or Infirmary Pediatrics and that's where
our practices. Yeah, well, thank you so much. Dr Johnson
(30:35):
has been such a pleasure to chat with you. Yes,
and thank you for dealing with me and my voice.
My kids gave me something called rs V which causes
a lot of coffin and wheezing, and so thank you
for the good work that you do. Thank you. I'm
so glad Dr Johnson was able to share her expertise
with us today. To learn more about her and her work,
(30:56):
be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy from
Black Girls dot com side session to sixty three, and
be sure to text two of your girls and tell
them to check out this episode right now. If you're
looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to
check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls
dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue
digging into this topic or just be in community with
(31:18):
other sisters, come on over and join us in the
Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet design
just for black women. You can join us at community
dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was
produced by Freda Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was
done by Dennison Bradford. Thank you all so much for
joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing
(31:40):
this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care,
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,
a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
(00:32):
to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope
you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it
is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship
with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so
(00:57):
much for joining me for session two sixty three of
the airp for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into
our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Although restrictions
related to COVID nineteen may have lessened around the country,
(01:19):
the risk has not gone away. Vaccines have been an
important part of protecting our health throughout the pandemic, but
so far they haven't been available as the children under
the age of five, which has loved parents and caregivers
in a very difficult position. Last week, the FDA authorized
use of the vaccine in this age group, so we
can't expect administration in this group to start soon. If
(01:41):
you're a parent or a caregiver, you probably have lots
of questions. Joining me this week to help answer some
of these questions is Dr Nina Ford Johnson. Dr Johnson
is a board certified pediatrician who has been serving the
families of the Mobile, Alabama area for ten years. With
her expertise and serving children of all ages, Dr Johnson
(02:02):
has been a go to voice for black children's health
during the pandemic. Her recent national campaign, I'm a Mom First,
is by moms and four moms who have concerns about
vaccinating their children. Our conversation explores what's in the COVID
vaccine and how it works, breaking down common concerns and
debunking myths around the vaccine, how to identify COVID symptoms
(02:24):
at home, and she shares advice to caregivers who might
be struggling with the decision to have their children vaccinated.
If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please
share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG
in Session or join us over in the sister circles
to talk more in depth about the episode. You can
(02:44):
join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com.
Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining
us today, Dr Johnson. Thank you. I'm so glad to
be here. Thank you for just having me. Yeah, So
this is such an important topic and it feels like
there's new information almost every day, right, So I would
(03:05):
love for you to get started. I know that when
we talk about children, there's lots of anxiety, lots of
concerns about perhaps getting your child vaccinated with the covidacine vaccination.
Can you talk to us a little bit about what
the vaccine is and what it does for children. And
this is such an important conversation because we are seeing
cases starting to uptick a little bit and our children,
(03:29):
and so it's so important that we still tell our
parents and their family members how important it is for
these children to get vaccinated. This covid vaccine is very safe.
It does not have any eggs, it does not have latex,
it does not have any preservatives whatsoever. The vaccine, as
we call it, is very clean and it is made
(03:51):
with excellent technology by our medical scientists. So we're so
proud of this vaccine. This vaccine contains a couple of
salts like magnesium and others. It contains lipids, which allows
the vaccine to deliver it very effectively to what it's
supposed to, and it contains m RNA and it does
(04:12):
not change the child's DNA. It basically tells the immune
cells to protect against the virus and it allows them
to protect against the spike protein. And the spike protein
of COVID nineteen is what causes this virus to be
so virulent and very scary, and it does freak havoc
(04:34):
in our immune systems of our children and adults. And
then once the m RNA does what it's supposed to
do into the cells, it degrades very rapidly and does
not cause any problem. So it does not change the
person's DNA at all. It just allows it to be
very effective for what it's supposed to do. So, Dr Johnson,
(04:55):
can you break that down into maybe simpler terms because
some of the words I understand and what you're saying,
but I definitely want to make sure people understand exactly
what the vaccine does for the kues. M RNA is
basically as a as a cousin. We can say to
d NA, which basically genetic code that makes us also
different and very special. And so the vaccine basically is
(05:18):
encoded into the m RNA, which is is basically put
in m morna, which allows it to go into our
different cells which helps us fight different viruses and bacteria
and the like, and COVID nineteen it produces a protein
and basically this protein is called spike, and it allows
(05:41):
the spike protein that COVID nineteen produces to attack different
cells of the body, which is where we see why
COVID nineteen has caused a lot of problems with the lungs.
So it attacks the lungs, it can attack the heart,
it can attack blood vessels. So you'll see a lot
of people, especially when COVID nineteen first came out, it
(06:05):
coust a lot of clots and stuff like that, so
it'll attack that system as well. And so what the
vaccine does it causes an antibody which basically fights that
spike protein. If someone was to become in contact with
COVID nineteen, so they've already produced an immune response to
(06:26):
the virus even before they've even been introduced to the virus,
meaning before they've even got infected with it. So this
vaccine is very good and I hope that helps. It
does it does, So it's basically helping you, like, should
you become infected, if you get the vaccine, it helps
your body to fight against that infection. So then maybe
you don't become asset as you might if you didn't
(06:48):
have the vaccine. That is correct, That is very correct.
Thank you got it? Got it okay? And so you
mentioned that there's no eggs, no layes hex. So those
are some of the common concerns with other vaccinations. And
I know that for some of the very early childhood vaccinations,
you often hear parents talk about like trying to space
them out or do we give them all at once?
Is there any concern with having to space this out,
(07:09):
say from your regular flu shot or from other vaccinations
that a child might have. Good question, But no, again,
this vaccine is very good. I've actually given it in
conjunction with the flu shot, same day, same time. I've
actually given it in conjunction with a child who came
in for their yearly check up and they needed shots.
And so for like my eleven year old to come
(07:31):
in ready to go to middle school and needing those
shots to get in. They've actually received that vaccine as well,
right along with the other ones and have done completely fine.
So there's no need to face out any of your
other vaccines to get that COVID vaccine. Or also, if
you were to get the flu shot when it is
flue season, it's okay to get the COVID vaccine right
(07:52):
along with it. Got it. And are there any fine
effects or risk that you have found or heard about
related to the vaccine for kids? Good question. The main
thing that I've seen our fevers, so a fever for
like a day or so, and of course you may
get some armed tenderness and they hurt where the shot
(08:14):
was given, and that may happen for a couple of days.
Another side effects are just chills or feeling more fatigued
or tired than usual. Again, those symptoms just usually last
twenty four to forty eight hours, just a couple of days.
I say, take some motoring, get plenty of liquids, get
plenty of rest, like you would with any vaccine, like
(08:36):
you would with the flu shot or of anything like that,
and those usually go away. You know, Dr Johnson, I
feel like I've heard lots of different information about how
COVID actually impacts kids right so, and it feels like
maybe sometimes that the severity of how sick kids get
is different between the different streams right now, so I
(08:57):
knew that there's like a new stream I think on Harrizing,
can you see a little bit about how COVID nineteen
does show up in kids, like is it typically less
severe than we see an adults or you know, should
we be just as concerned about kids being infected with
COVID nineteen as adult? You know what, from what I've
seen in my office, the symptoms are less severe. So
(09:18):
a kid I saw two weeks ago just had like
a little cold, stuffy nose, barely even had a fever,
So that was his symptoms. And so COVID nineteen is
a virus, so it affects you from head to toe.
So headaches, you may get, some red eyes, running nose,
sore throat, you may cough a little, vomiting, diarrhea again
(09:39):
affects you from head to toe. So usually the symptoms
that I've seen in my office mainly look like the flu,
or may come in looking like a stomach virus because
they got a lot of vomiting and diarrhea. Because of that.
Very rarely have I had to admit. One of my
children who had COVID nineteen one did get a at it,
(10:00):
but this child had several other chronic ailments and conditions,
and so a couple of long term effects though I
have seen with kids with COVID, and those have been
more so my teenagers, where they've had headaches for long
periods of time, or one had issues with her taste
(10:21):
and so couldn't taste or couldn't smell things for like
a couple of months and so lost weight because of
that fatigue. Or they had what we call that brain
fog when they couldn't really think through like their school work,
so they had to go to homeschool and not do
in person school. So that's been a couple of effects.
(10:42):
But I will say this, it is still very very
important for children to get the COVID vaccine because I
believe it was last year, I can't remember the year,
but it was the eleventh cause of death of children
in the United States. So it's still very serious, and
it's still very important for children of African American descent
(11:05):
to still get the COVID vaccine because I hate to
say it like this, but this is true. When white
people get a cold, Black people get flu or pneumonia,
So it does affect us more serious. So our rates
are higher for hospitalization and serious illness because of this
than other nationalities. More from my conversation with Dr Johnson
(11:26):
after the break, he can you speak to a little
bit about why that is. That's a good question, and
we really don't know why. I'll say, there's black women.
We've seen COVID affect us pretty hard, and we are
(11:49):
more prone to get conditions like lupus and other things
like that, other autoimmune problems, and so we're wondering if
it's because maybe the clotting system is friend because when
it first came out, we thought we were going to
be safe from COVID nineteen because majority of us have
OH positive blood. But that's not true at all. So
we really don't know why. We don't know if it's
(12:11):
because it's late presentation. Are we coming to our doctors
too late to be treated? Is it because the medical
system still does not I'm trying to say this where
I won't offend anyone but still tell the truth, right,
And so when we come and when we go to
the emergency room, and when we go to the doctor,
(12:33):
it's usually at a last resort, right. We try to
do our best at home, take all the medicine and
everything we can before we go to our doctor. So
is it because we're showing up sicker than usual? Then
we would have if not. And so when this first
illness first came out, I told the medical society and
the community here locally in Mobile County and Alabama that
(12:57):
when your patients arrive to the e R or to
your office, believe them when they say that they're sick,
because they wouldn't come otherwise. They're not just gonna show
up just to show up. They're having to take off work,
they're having to get to the e R or to
their doctor's office the best way they can. And they're
not just showing up just because it's something for them
(13:17):
to do. They're showing up because they're ill and you
have to take them serious for m hmm, yeah, I mean,
and I think that speaks to the long standing like
institutional racism we see, right, so the misinformation that has
existed related to lots of different illnesses and medical experience.
I mean, there's a long history. And then know that
a lot of that has fed into some of these
(13:38):
concerns as well. Definitely, definitely, And so that's why it's
so important that what you're doing and what others are
doing is putting out correct and right information for our
communities to receive. You mentioned a lot of symptoms, Dr Johnson,
and I'm in Georgia, and so all of this stuff
with like running nose and scratchy throat and all of
that also sounds like allergies. And I'm wondering for our kids,
(14:02):
should we be using like the COVID nineteen at home
tests to test them if they have any of these symptoms,
or should we bring them strange the doctor's office, Like
how should you proceed with any of these concerns or
any symptoms you've mentioned. You know, that's a good question.
And allergy season is big right especially around this time
of the year and sometimes all year round. So if
(14:23):
you have to know your children, if you see them
like running nose and cough and congestion, but now they're
sleeping more than usual or they're not eating as much,
then that would be the time to either do it
at home test or take them to their doctor to
find out what's going on. But especially if they have
other past medical problems like asthma or something like that,
(14:44):
or even high blood pressure diabetes. Those are the kids
who you don't want to play around with, who it
will not hurt for them to be seen by their
doctor just in case, because we know that if a
child or an adult has other comorbidities like diabetes, high pressure,
having to use a c PAP because they have sleep apnia,
then those are concerns that they need to see their
(15:06):
physician quicker than someone who does not have any medical
problems at all. Got it? And R. Johnson, what is
the latest update about vaccinations for children under five? So
I hear these parents and my heart goes out of them, right,
because it does feel like there's a large segment of
our population who just have not had any options, like
(15:27):
they're too young for the vaccine, and a lot of
them are too young even from mass And so what
is the latest update about when we might expect any
information about vaccines for kids younger than five? Good question,
because my three are all younger than five, and so
I'm ready. They got to go to school right without delay.
(15:47):
So what I've been hearing is that by the end
of june's a good possibility that the vaccine will be
ready for them, and it's at eight percent effective, which
is still really good. The COVID vaccine for US adults
is around, but I will still take for those five
and under children, and so as soon as that is available,
(16:09):
I do recommend. I was looking at the news and
I saw this update while I was in the bed,
and I turned over. I said, well, my kid's gonna
be first in line, Chad, because they need that vaccine
because they're sick so often, they're exposed to so much.
You know. Of course they see me with my mask,
but my kids are three and they're not even trying
to wear a mask. I put it on their face
and it's all here or here, it's everywhere. So yeah,
(16:32):
so as soon as it comes out for them, I
totally recommend it. For those six months and older, got
it And will it also be two doses or is
the doss changed for children you're going than five. I
think it will be two doses, and it may even
be three. So and I think it's like, you know,
you get one, that child gets one, and they come
back in about a month and get that second dose,
(16:54):
and then we'll see what they say about when the
third one should be given. So I think it's at
least two, but it may be right, got it, Got it.
We've already talked about some of the concerns around why
our community is sometimes hesitant to believe that we should
trust vaccines and all of those things, and what kinds
of information are wisdom would you like to share for
(17:15):
parents who might still feel a little hesitant about vaccinating
their children. Yeah, and it's a difficult conversation to have,
but a necessary one. And we don't want to just
give our children shots just willy nilly. But these vaccines
have been tried and proven. Right, we don't see people
with smallpox walking around or yellow fever or polio anymore
(17:36):
in our modern day society. And so that's because the
vaccines work. And so I encourage parents. And there's still
parents even in patients I take care of, who are
against it. And they've seen my commercial, right, they see
me on TV, they've heard me on the radio, and
they're still hesitant. But the main thing is I don't
try to brow beat them about it. I just encourage
(17:56):
the conversation. If they say no today, they may say
no the next time. They may say no a year later.
You know, we talked about it more often. What kind
of concerns they have? So talk to your pediatrician about
it and get the right information. M Yeah. So you
know the other thing, Dr Johnson, is that we are
seeing now on the news about monkey pox. Is this
(18:17):
something that we should be concerned about? And I don't remember.
Is there a monkey Pops vaccination we get its children? No,
not at all. I saw the Lord. I said, Lord,
I can only take one thing. So luckily I don't
know what's going on with this monkey Pops thing. I'm
sure we'll get more and more information about it. It's
(18:38):
nothing that I've seen in my office or anything yet,
nothing that they're warning us against. Then we need to
be out on the lookout for. There's nothing that the
state Public Health Department has put out and says, hey,
you need to watch out for this and this yet,
so when it comes time, we'll be ready. But right now,
just to have parents just concentrate on this and then
(19:00):
we'll move on to the next thing, because there's always
the next thing. Yeah, understandable. So what other vaccines do
we get those? As kids? I feel like, you know,
I have two young ones, and so I don't remember
all of what they've gotten or what all I got
as a kid. So what other vaccines are kids typically getting,
Like you know, there are shots or school so to speak,
whooping cough, polio vaccine. Again, I was telling somebody, like,
(19:24):
the last time I saw somebody with polio was my
great aunt Flossie. It was a beautiful woman, but she
had one leg that was shorter than the other because
she had polio. But that's something that we protect against.
Chicken pox. I had chicken pox as a child, but
they didn't have the vaccine available. And so my sister,
who is eight years younger than me, she's never had
(19:45):
chicken pox because she's had the vaccine. And so we
like to vaccinate against different strands of hepatitis, which is
an infection of the liver that is caused by a
virus and that can be given to people or children
by something as simple as eating something that is not
cooked properly, and so that's something we like to protect
(20:06):
against as well. And there's a numerous other bacteria we
protect against that can cause pneumonia and meningitis, pneumonias and
an infection of the lungs and meningitis is an infection
of the brain, so we protect against that for children
and our teenagers, especially the ones who are going off
to high school and college as they start living in
(20:28):
those close communities and quarters where it's more easily to
catch something than another child who may not be living
with their classmates. There are a number of vaccines and
stuff that we protect our children against, but it's very necessary.
Thank you for Dr Johnson. More from my conversation with
Dr Johnson after the break. The other conversation that I
(21:00):
think that has been happening in parallel to the conversation
around vaccines is also the mental health tool that this
has taken on our kids. There's lots of new research
coming out talking about anxiety getting higher in kids. We
do see, sadly, an increase in youth suicide rates, and
so can you talk a little bit about some of
(21:20):
the mental health impact we've seen from the pandemic on children. Yeah,
and it's been really challenging, especially the anxiety portion of
it that we're saying. I'm having kids who are in
elementary school having issues dealing with going out in public
now to the point where they don't like to go
to the store. They just want to stay at home
(21:42):
and parents are having to homeschool them. They are actually
saying like their stomach hurts. Their mental health problems is
now becoming more somatic, meaning they're blaming it on a
headache or they're having issues with their stomach and having
to see different specialists, and the specialists telling them, hey,
your stomach is totally fine, but it's all up here.
(22:04):
And so the main thing I tell with parents is
to have real conversations with your children and be upfront.
Even if you have anxieties or something that makes you
concerned or nervous yourself, say hey, I understand what you're feeling,
because mommy is also feeling a little concerned about this
as well. But as your mother, as your parents, that
(22:24):
is my job to take care of you, so you
don't have to worry about that. And so seeing the
anxiety portion has been very concerning, and there have been
some uptick and depression, and some of the depression I
think has to deal with loss of family members. So
I have several kids who are now orphans because of
the COVID, and so you have to talk about these
(22:46):
mental health issues and our children. But also in some
of these surviving parents, because I've had children who've lost
grandparents due to COVID and that was their primary caregiver.
So it's been very challenging these past couple of years
having to navigate the system. Where as you know, Dr Joy,
it's not funded as well, especially in our communities, giving
(23:09):
them the resources that they need to be successful in
terms of that because the mental health portion plays such
a key part in their academics and also their physical
well being. You talked about, you know, the loss of
family members that I think a lot of kids also
like the loss of social interaction. There was a time
they were back in school or they were doing virtual school, right,
(23:30):
and so I think the loss of just like hanging
out with their friends and all of that has lived
to maybe some increase in depression and anxiety. Definitely, definitely,
and now they just miss a um. I took my
kids to Disney World at the end of last year
and they couldn't give Mickey Mouse a hug. It's really
just a small thing. So I know that you are
(23:51):
a pediatrician by training, and so mostly you see the
little people, but you also come into contact with their
parents right when parents are bringing and so what kinds
of conversation have you been having with parents about their
own mental health, because that has been a huge tool
as well. It's so important, especially my mom's who just
had babies and so you have postpartum depression and we're
(24:11):
talking about that, and so then you're wondering, like, in
the height of COVID, what could my child get COVID
because they're at daycare. Also, make sure that my parents
and my grandparents are staying on top of their physical
health in terms of making sure they're getting their annual checkups.
Don't forget your mammograms, don't forget your colonoscopies, all those
(24:32):
other things that sometimes gets put off because of COVID.
They don't want to go to the doctor because they're
scared they're gonna get COVID. Yeah, all that has been
very real. It has felt very hard, I think, to
make some of those decisions. And I think that's where
some of the frustration has come, is that it doesn't
feel like there was a largely like solid messaging in
place to help people figure out how to determine their
(24:53):
risk around certain things exactly exactly. And so that's why
it's still so important that they hear because people are
still dying from heart attacks, they're still dying from strokes.
Kids now more than ever, especially at home, we're seeing
what the COVID fifteen, the COVID twenty pounds more because
they're eating so much. So we're still seeing diabetes and
(25:15):
high blood pressure and our children. So it's still something
that you hate, even though we may be in a
pandemic or hopefully starting to inch our way out of it.
You can exercise, you can go outside, get some of
that vitamin D. So you bring up another good point
around people have different opinions around vaccinations for kids, and
I think that this has cautome tension. I think even
(25:35):
in families. Let's say you have a sister who has
kids that she doesn't plans and vaccinate, Like, is it
still okay for them to have play dates with other
people who are not vaccinated? Can you give us some
guidelines around how we should move forward with kids in
terms of maybe interacting with other kids who may not
be vaccinated, or how do we make some decisions around that?
And that could be tough because you don't want to
(25:56):
shelter your own children, right You can ask the parent
you are they having any symptoms, any cough front he knows,
do your activities outside instead of in a confined space,
So at a park where everybody's running around and doing
everything like that. Like I said, just plant the seed.
And if they don't accept it then and that's okay
(26:16):
because at least you did what you know, you thought
was right. If they know we're coming from a good place,
then I think people will be more apt to receive
and well, thank you. So are there considerations or things
we should be thinking about in preparation for I know,
one school year just into maybe not even for some
people right, but in thinking about going back to school
in August? All the things we should be thinking about
(26:38):
in terms of talking with teachers around like mitigating risks.
Are there anything that you suggest for that we still
keep up that good hand hygiene. We still gotta wash
our hands. We still have to make sure we keep
our hands out of our face and out of our mouths.
Even as adults, we still have to do that. The
child shot records and all that stuff is up to date.
(26:58):
You want to encourage your kids is to make sure
they're seen by their physician for their annual check up
so we can talk about even school readiness. Right, every
time I see a kid come in for an office visit,
whether they're sick or well, I always ask them how
they're doing in school, because to me, that shows such
an important part how their physical and their mental health
(27:20):
is doing, is how are they doing in school? And
so we can talk about things like are they having
issues with attention or how do you feel their reading
comprehension is doing, or their math or or their handwriting
skills and stuff like that, so that's something to be addressed.
And then we can also their speech so that way,
(27:40):
like during the summer, we can send him the speech
therapy or occupational therapy or even behavioral therapy, so we
can work on some of those attention and focusing things,
so we can get the ball roling during the summer
so they can make progress so by the time school
years starts still be ready or on a better foot
than they were before they ended the school year. Thank you, so,
(28:01):
Dr Johnson, Can you tell us a little bit about
your educational background and your path lead to you the
work that you do now? Yeah, thank you. My family's
in Atlanta. I'm a graduate of Stone Mountain High School
and then I went to Tennessee State in Nashville, where
I did my bachelor's degree in biological sciences. And then
I graduated from Harry Medical College, which is right down
(28:23):
the street in Nashville, where I got my medical doctorate,
so to outstanding historically black college and universities that I
really hold dear to my heart. And then I did
my pediatric training at Baylor College in Medicine in Houston, Texas.
And now I've been practicing in Mobile, Alabama. They also
call it l a Lower Alabama, and I'm glad to
(28:46):
be here. So I'm curious to just here how being
a pediatrician has changed for you five years ago versus
what your practice looks like now, Like, what has that
changed look like. I'm definitely more busy, but I'm grateful
for it. I've got more gray, so I have more wisdom.
My patients and my parents take me a little bit
(29:07):
more serious. And then it also helps that over the
past what three years now going on for I became
a mom, and so I think parents appreciate that perspective
because now I can give them some tips on what
I've done and some things that I was dead set on,
you know, stop the bottle at one year of age
and stop that pacifier at one year of age. Now
(29:28):
I can tell them what happened for for me and
my kids and how it was a little bit different
and so definitely more understanding to the plight of parents.
And what is it that you do. Do you have
a private practice in Mobile or are you doing something else? Yeah?
I had worked with three other great pediatricians and a
group practice in Mobile, Alabama. We don't see any hospitalized kids.
(29:49):
We used to before a certain period of time about
four or five years ago, we did, but we cut
that out of our practice, so now we just see
our patients totally in the office. Thank you, Dr Johnson.
And where can people find you? Do you have a
website you'd like to share? And are you on any
social media? Yeah? I am not really on Instagram. I
am somewhat on Twitter, definitely more on Facebook, but slacked
(30:14):
off in the past couple of months just because kids
in life has just gotten so busy. But Dr Nina
f j on Twitter and Nina for Johnson on Facebook
and your practice website, Oh yes, yes, yes, so actually
we're just on Facebook or Infirmary Pediatrics and that's where
our practices. Yeah, well, thank you so much. Dr Johnson
(30:35):
has been such a pleasure to chat with you. Yes,
and thank you for dealing with me and my voice.
My kids gave me something called rs V which causes
a lot of coffin and wheezing, and so thank you
for the good work that you do. Thank you. I'm
so glad Dr Johnson was able to share her expertise
with us today. To learn more about her and her work,
(30:56):
be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy from
Black Girls dot com side session to sixty three, and
be sure to text two of your girls and tell
them to check out this episode right now. If you're
looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to
check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls
dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue
digging into this topic or just be in community with
(31:18):
other sisters, come on over and join us in the
Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet design
just for black women. You can join us at community
dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. This episode was
produced by Freda Lucas and Elise Ellis and editing was
done by Dennison Bradford. Thank you all so much for
joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing
(31:40):
this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care,
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