Ep 30 - Getting Unstuck: Don't Go It Alone (Part 2 with Dr. Sherlonda Adkins) - Thinkydoers®

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcastThinkydoers are those of us drawn to
deep work where thinking is working.
But we don't stop there.
We're compelled to move the work frominsight to idea, through the messy
middle, to find courage and confidenceto put our thoughts into action.
I'm Sara Lobkovich, and I'm a Thinkydoer.

(00:23):
I'm here to help others find moresatisfaction, less frustration, less
friction, and more flow in our work.
My mission is to help changemakers likeyou transform our workplaces and world.
So, let's get started All right,friends, we are back for part
two of our conversation with Dr.

(00:44):
Sherlonda Atkins.
In this episode, we're going tofocus on actually getting help and
practical advice for getting unstuck.
Dr.
Atkins and I talk about the importanceof therapy, the importance of finding a
therapist and mental health providers thatactually work for you and your wiring,
And a few ways to make sure thatyou're finding a mental health provider

(01:06):
who's actually qualified to help youwith what you're struggling with.
Dr.
Adkins also has a really inspiring career,so she provides some encouragement and
final thoughts on living a life alignedwith your unique gifts and talents.
So let's dive into this episode.
You used one of my favoritedistinctions, that I do also
in my work, is the differencebetween struggling and suffering.

(01:29):
For people who are thinking, "Gosh,I might actually be suffering with
stuckness," you mentioned listening topeople in your life, hearing what they
have to say or observe back to you, Isthere anything that you would say to
people who just don't know what to do, orthey're feeling that stuckness and they

(01:51):
have no idea where to begin to get help?
It would go back to getting a therapist.
I cannot stress the importance of that.
And the difficult thing—I guessthe most challenging thing about
therapy—is it's kind of like dating.
The first therapist you get may notbe the right fit, and it doesn't

(02:12):
mean that there's something wrong.
It could be a really good therapist, butit just may not be the person for you.
But you can have a really good therapist,but maybe their methods that they
use just don't resonate with you.
I've had patients who have said, "I'vebeen seeing my therapist for about a
year, but I just feel now, she's takingme or he's taking me as far as we can go.
Because now when we go in, it's we'rejust chatting about life, I don't

(02:35):
really feel like I'm moving to tothe next level, and I still feel
like there's room for improvement."
It doesn't mean it's a bad therapist; itcould be the one you need for that time.
When it's time to move on,it may be time to shift.
I would say that's probablythe most challenging part,
but don't let that deter you.
Please start, because when youare at the point of suffering.

(02:57):
It's a very vulnerable space.
It's a very delicate space.
And when I said having a couple ofpeople who can give you feedback, it's
not even necessarily just the peoplein your family or your closest friends.
Because you got to remember that allof us are humans, and all of us have
had our own personal experiences.
And sometimes people are telling youthings through their lens, but they

(03:19):
could be speaking through a trauma lens,maybe things that they've gone through.
So they're trying to give youadvice, but their advice is based
on maybe some maladaptive copingmechanisms or strategies they
have come up with their head.
So that's why you have to be very careful.
And so I don't entrust thatlightly to just anyone.
So, that's why I say get with a therapist.

(03:48):
And I'm not a therapist.
It's funny because I've had somany people, especially when I
launched my practice, who wantedto support me, saying, "Oh,
I'm sending you these people."
Then, when I get on the phone andask, "What are you looking for?"
it turns out they were wanting therapy.
And I'm
like, "I'm not a therapist,"but, I would say probably about
95 percent of my patients—I alsorecommend that they do therapy.
Even if I'm only treatingthem for, let's just say ADHD.
And that's it, like no anxiety, nodepression, no mood disorders, but just

(04:10):
ADHD, because I personally believe thatwhen life starts to move faster than what
we can grow roots to support ourselves,it can be very foundation-shaking.
It can be very scary, and we don'tknow when those times will come.
So if you at least just have arelationship established with a therapist,

(04:31):
or even just had a first session, becausefor some people, believe it or not, they
still think about therapy with the imageof what is portrayed on TV, like you
may not have to go and lay on somebody'scouch and they're going to be asking me
about all my childhood, this and that.
It's no, it's not that.
Just having that, saying that you'vebeen in that space before, so it's not
so foreign when and if something happensand then you need to use a therapist

(04:54):
and you don't have to wait until youget to the point of suffering or the
point of something tragic happening.
But really just somebody to tellyou, help you with your perspective.
My very first time seeing a therapist,now I look back, is quite comical
because I was already working,doing the type of work that I do.
And so I had enrolledin my doctoral program.
And one of the perks for studentswas we get a free membership

(05:16):
to subscription to BetterHelp.
And I was like, "Oh, okay."
And for those of you who are listening,if you don't know what BetterHelp is,
BetterHelp and TalkSpace are similarplatforms where you can do online
therapy, and they have different options.
if you want to do video, orphone calls, or chats, so it
just makes it more accessible.
This is 2020, so we're ina pandemic—I've never lived

(05:36):
through this before, things arehappening—there's a lot of uncertainty.
I just left where I've beenworking for the last five years.
I'm starting my own practice.
There's a lot of racialinjustices going on.
I am a Brown woman.
I have a husband and a son who I'mthinking like, "if my son wants
to just go walk down the street toplay basketball, is someone going
to, think that he's a threat?"
So all these different thingsthat are going on, so I said, if

(05:58):
there's ever a good time for meto try therapy, like this is it.
I did the research, and I I want to picka good one, I want somebody who looks
like they are, you know, have credentials.
And what that means to me is thatthey're taking their craft seriously.
I am a forever learner, forever student,so I want somebody who adopts that same
thing and have to have those same values.

(06:20):
So, I went down the list, andthen I had my first session.
And so, I told her, I said, "I don'thave anything like glaring, like a
big problem to come to you with rightnow, but you're the professional.
treat me like I know nothingabout mental health."
And I tell you what, our firstsession, I'll just go through
and tell you about my life.
And then you have at it.
So, the first session went like that.
I'm thinking now she's probablyOh, I had my work cut out for me.

(06:42):
Second session though,we had gone to Mexico.
My husband and I did a littlemini-sabbatical through
Mexico that October 2020.
So, we came back and she said,"Oh, so how was your trip?"
And I said, "The trip was great."
And I said, "But, on the couple ofdays before it was time for us to
come back, I started feeling like alittle overwhelmed because my niece
called, and she was having an issue.
My daughter was trying to figuresomething out with school.

(07:03):
And then I got this email,"and so she just listened.
And then I told her that I had anupcoming presentation at our state
conference, and I said, "I feela little bit nervous about it."
I said, "But I shouldn't be becauseit's not like someone else wrote this,
and I'm having to, do it based on that.
I wrote the material, soI shouldn't be nervous."
So she let me finish, and she said, "SoI hear a couple of things," and then she

(07:23):
started talking to me about boundaries.
And she also talked to meabout the importance of
recognizing what I'm feeling.
So, she said, "You just toldme that you're feeling anxious,
but that you shouldn't be.
So you're not givingyourself permission to feel."
And I'm like, "What?"
So, after that session —andlisten, I am a good student.
Put me in a program or a class orsomething—like, I'm going to learn.

(07:45):
So, she sent me some worksheets, I'mdoing the worksheets and then I'm
looking up supplemental information.
And that was my true self.
First, like personal experience goingthrough boundaries, understanding the
different types of boundaries, and settingboundaries and what it looked like.
And then also, mindfulnessto understand how I feel.

(08:06):
And so, That was likegroundbreaking for me.
These are things that I toldmy patients they should do, but
going through it myself was acompletely different experience,
and it makes me a better clinician.
And I haven't stopped that journey.
have a couple of therapists that I workwith, and it allows me to show up better.
Not just for myself, but for my patients.

(08:27):
And so to go back to your originalquestion, how do you, if you find
yourself suffering, what's the first step?
That's why therapy will always bemy answer because when we're in
that state it's just so important toget connected to the right person.
It doesn't have to be the forever person,but at least the right person, who can at
least start giving you some tools whereyou can start to dissect and realize

(08:50):
you are not that situation, you are notthose feelings, but it's just a filter in
which you're viewing life at the moment.
And when you can just create justa little bit of cracking some
space between that, then that'swhere the progress starts, right?
There's so much wisdom in whatyou just shared that if you are

(09:11):
suffering, find a therapist.
And I would say, find a therapistwho's not harmful for you.
You know, and it doesn't have to be yourforever therapist, but it doesn't make
sense to be suffering and not get help.
That's a health risk.
I and some of my listeners havehad therapeutic experiences
that might have been harmful.

(09:32):
And so once you recognize that,it's not anyone's fault, it's just
for whatever the circumstances are.
Sometimes you do have to remember thatyou are a little bit vulnerable, you
are looking for help, and you needto find the help that doesn't hurt.
Yes, I love that.
Before you make the commitment,also asking if you can just do a

(09:53):
short, maybe 15-minute, 20-minute.
Because believe it or not, your gut—wetalk about like guts—so our brain is not
the only place where we get intel, right?
It's not the only organthat thinks for us.
So sometimes, even just interacting withpeople in person, or even virtually,
or sometimes even on the phone, youcan get an idea if this is someone

(10:15):
that you feel comfortable with.
Because it's all going to comebefore you can actually trust
someone, you got to feel comfortable.
So I would encourage even doing alittle prescreening call, because
therapists will understand.
A good therapist will understand thatthis is a very intimate space in which
you're going to be working together, and,and I think most of them probably would
welcome an opportunity to meet each other.

(10:36):
And then I would also say— at the verybeginning—maybe ask how would you indicate
to that therapist if you felt likeyou weren't getting the help that you
needed, or if you weren't progressing asquickly or as deeply as you anticipated.
And the reason why I said this mightbe good to ask up front is because

(10:58):
I hear it on the back end whenmy patients are saying, "I don't
think that this is the one for me.
I don't think they're helping me."
And then I ask, "Haveyou communicated this?"
And they usually say no,because it's very awkward.
Because there's this power dynamic, right?
and so It's you going up to a parentsaying "I think your parenting sucks."
It's just an uncomfortable space.

(11:19):
So maybe asking that questionupfront, before you feel like you're
hurting the therapist feelings.
And then they can say to you, "Oh,if you ever feel that way, this
would be a good way to say it."
I might just say, "Be blunt, you're nothurting my feelings at all, just tell me."
Others may say, give you some otheroptions, "You can always write a
letter, or you can always text,or you can always say, "I feel

(11:40):
like I've reached this milestone.
What do you see is next?"
I think that would also break theground a little bit because that once
you get into something, if it's notworking, you have an opportunity To
get out of it without it being harmful.
And when I say harmful, sometimes patientswill just be like, "I just stopped going.
I just stopped going to therapy"or, "I just go and I just sit there
because I know I'll shoot, or he'sgoing to just talk about this."

(12:02):
And so I just don't really talk about itbecause I'll have patients tell me stuff.
And I'm like, "Are you guystalking about this in therapy?"
"No, I don't really talk about my, Idon't talk to my therapist about that."
And I'm thinking in mymind, I'm thinking, "Okay.
What?
This is the stuff that youneed to be working through."
But I also realized, too, again,it's not just skillset, it's gifting.
There's a combination ofthings—there's personality fits.

(12:24):
Sometimes I get more of the stuff thatshould be talked about in therapy.
It's insightful.
The suggestion to work out at thebeginning of an engagement, "What are we
going to do if this isn't working for me?"
Or "What should I do ifthis isn't working for me?"
It makes me think of one of the lessonsI'm learning with my current therapist.

(12:45):
She keeps reminding me thattherapy is one of the places where
we learn how to "relationship."
And that idea of communicating about whatmight happen and planning for it ahead of
time applies to all of our relationships.
is there anything that we haven'ttalked about that you'd really like
to make sure we cover or share?

(13:06):
One thing that just came to mind, Imade a little note here for anyone
who may be listening and saying, "Oh,my gosh, I feel like I'm so behind
the curve on seeking professionalhelp," whether it's therapy or if
it's the other side of mental health.
We have the therapist, and then we alsohave the medical providers, which would
be like the psychiatric providers —soa psychiatrist, or a psychiatric PA,
or a psychiatric nurse practitioner.
And so for someone who's listening,it's like, "Oh, my gosh, I

(13:26):
think I have been suffering."
"Wow, look how much time has passed," Ijust want to give you the statistic and
hopefully, it'll, make you feel better.
The average length of time that ittakes for someone to actually seek
professional help is about 10 years.
And I remember when I first heardthat statistic, I was like, "Really?
Like, how could that be?"
But in clinic and talking to people,I can definitely see how that could

(13:47):
be, just because you're suffering ata moment doesn't mean that suffering
is for a long period of time.
Sometimes, it's alleviated.
We get through it and we're like,"Okay," and then things are okay.
So maybe at that crunch time,you're thinking like, "I need
help," but then it's not as bad.
And then you move on with your life.
or sometimes we just get really good.
Like we can get extremelyefficient at suppressing things.
And so we're still ableto show up in life.

(14:09):
Like we're not curled up in a darkcorner, crying, not going to work.
We're going to work, we'reshowing up, we're raising kids,
we're doing all of these things.
Life might feel a little bit hard, buthey, everybody has a hard life, right?
No, everybody doesn't have a hard life.
People have difficult thingsthat happen, but some people have
different coping strategies, likehealthy ones to get through them.
So that's why for a lot of peopleit's the ebbs and the flows of it.

(14:32):
And then next thing you know, you lookedup and it's "Wow, I didn't know I had
been dealing with this for so long."
I'll ask patients, "Tell me the firsttime you felt this way," and they'll
go, and I'll say, "Tell me aboutyour high school and middle school."
And a lot of them would go backto "When I was in high school...
you know what, I really I rememberthat time when my parents...
something happened..."
And they'll say I didn't recognize it.
They didn't recognize itbecause, when did we start really

(14:54):
talking about mental health?
We didn't really talk about thatback when we were teenagers.
The guidance counselor would come andtalk to us, and they'd be telling us
like, "Say no to drugs" and "Don't getpregnant," but nobody really stopped to
talk to us about anxiety and depression.
So, I just wanted to say thatas encouragement for someone
who may be listening to this andfeeling like they're behind the
curve—it's never too late to start.

(15:15):
I've worked with patients like intheir seventies, and my biggest
heartbreak, I think, is for people toleave this earth without experiencing
like joy—being stuck and not seeingwhat it could have looked like.
It's just so cool to think abouthow much access is increased by PAs

(15:37):
being able to operate the way you do.
So, if listeners have had issues findinghelp they needed in the past, looking
for PAs as an option now, that mightnot have existed if it was 10 years
ago, that you were looking for help.
there anything else that you'dlike to share with folks?
Look at how you feel.

(15:57):
Do you really feel like you areliving the life that you envisioned?
I wake up every day, and I'mexcited, and I have joy, but
it hasn't always been that.
It took a lot of work to getthere, but I really feel like we
all have unique gifts and talents.
And the quicker we can realize that wehave everything that we need, and just

(16:18):
align—have our external environmentset up to align with that—it's a
recipe for for living a healthy life.
And if anybody has any desire, liketo dig deeper into that, like I said,
I'm not a therapist and I wouldn't beable to treat you medically because
as a PA or a medical provider, wetreat patients who are located in

(16:39):
states in which we are licensed.
And I'm only licensed inSouth Carolina and the U.S.
Virgin Islands.
But the unique work that I doas an unstuck strategist is it's
combining all of my experiences,and skillset, and gifts.
And I'm able to work with people, helpingthem to design a life plan for them.
First of all, we identify their stickythinking, and then come up with strategies

(16:59):
to overcome that, and then design andhelp them execute a plan moving forward.
So if there's anybody who wantssome additional help with that, I'm
always available and happy to help.
And where can people find you ifthey would like more information?
You can find me atdrsherlondaadkins.com, and I'm also
on LinkedIn as drsherlondaadkins.

(17:23):
A huge thank you to Dr.
Adkins for fitting this recordingin with travel and schedule
challenges, and it was just anabsolute delight to have you here, Dr.
Adkins.
Thank you.
And listeners, thank you for joiningus for part two of this conversation.
If you missed part one, goback and give it a listen.
I hope you found Dr.
Adkin's insights on recognizing stuckness,seeking help, And some practical advice

(17:48):
for getting unstuck Valuable and helpful.
I just want to reiterate findingthe right therapist and recognizing
your support system is crucialfor your mental well being.
And as Dr.
Adkins shared, it'snever too late to start.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleasesubscribe, and leave us a review
on your favorite podcast platform.

(18:08):
It really does help this podcastBe seen and heard by more people.
For more resources andhow to connect with Dr.
Adkins, the full detailis in the show notes.
Thank you for tuning in today.
And I look forward to hearing thequestions this prompts for you.

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Ep 30 - Getting Unstuck: Don't Go It Alone (Part 2 with Dr. Sherlonda Adkins)

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