July 2, 2025 • 37 mins
Ever feel like your brain just won’t quit, and traditional meditation only makes it worse?
Thinkydoers host Sara Lobkovich gets it. She lives mostly in her head, and practices like meditation or breathwork have often felt out of reach. They seemed like they were designed for people who are naturally calm and centered — not her.
But this conversation with Chauna Bryant shifted everything. Chauna is a trauma-informed breathwork professional, and founder of Breath Liberation Society. She also describes herself as “probably the least chill meditation teacher you’ll ever meet.”
Together, they explore how breathwork can offer a more accessible entry point for overthinkers and busy brains. Instead of forcing stillness, breathwork gives the mind something active to focus on — what Chauna compares to “giving your brain an iPad” to occupy it — while the body does its own work.
They also talk about how breathwork differs from traditional meditation, why it’s particularly helpful for people with trauma histories, and how starting small (even just two breaths or two minutes) can be helpful.
If mindfulness has ever felt like it wasn’t made for your kind of mind, this episode is for you.
Episode Highlights:
- Why breathwork succeeds where traditional meditation fails for many people
- The difference between activating and calming breathwork techniques
- How to start a somatic practice when you're resistant to body-based work
- Trauma-informed approaches to breathwork and nervous system regulation
- The power of "titration" - starting with just 2 minutes instead of diving in
- Why consent and agency are crucial in breathwork practice
- Understanding breathwork as "nervous system pushups" for stress resilience
Key Concepts Explored:
- Conscious connected breathing and three-part breath techniques
- The origins and cultural lineages of breathwork practices
- How breathwork allows nonverbal processing of emotions and trauma
- The importance of finding trauma-informed, skilled practitioners
- Why patience becomes "your first form of body connection"
Common Questions Answered:
- What exactly is breathwork and how is it different from meditation?
- How can I start if I'm resistant to body-based practices?
- Is breathwork safe for people with trauma history?
- What should I expect from my first breathwork experience?
Notable Quotes:
“Breathwork gives the brain something to do. It’s just weird enough that it helps the body start to process what we’ve shelved or ignored.” — Chauna Bryant [00:04:00]
“Whatever you’re doing, try like a minute. Try two minutes. Give it two minutes and then get out. That’s the way to start to build that body connection.” — Chauna Bryant [00:14:00]
“For a lot of us with busy brains, patience is going to be our first form of body connection.” — Chauna Bryant [00:16:00]
“Just let the experience exist without having to slap words on it.” — Chauna Bryant [00:31:00]
“In breathwork, you get to choose as much or as little as you do—and whatever you choose, you’ll be cheered on fiercely.” — Chauna Bryant [00:34:00]
Chapters:
[00:00:00] Introduction: Welcome to Thinkydoers and Meet Chauna Bryant
[00:02:00] What is Breathwork? Active Meditation for Busy Brains
[00:05:00] Origins and Cultural Lineages of Breathwork Practices
[00:06:00] From Brain-Centered to Body-Aware: Sara and Chauna's Common Ground
[00:08:00] Chauna's Journey: From Gymnast to "Least Chill Meditation Teacher"
[00:11:00] The Meditation Failure and Discovering Breathwork
[00:12:00] Getting Started: Overcoming Resistance to Somatic Practices
[00:15:00] Perfectionism and All-or-Nothing Thinking in Body
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast.
Thinkydoers are those of us drawnto deep work, where thinking is
working, but we don't stop there.
We're compelled to move the work frominsight to idea, through the messy
middle, to find courage and confidenceto put our thoughts into action.
I'm your host, Sara Lobkovich.
(00:24):
I'm a strategy coach, a huge goal-settingand attainment nerd, and board-certified
health and wellness coach working atthe overlap of work life well-being I'm.
Also a Thinkydoer.
I'm here to help others find moresatisfaction, less frustration, less
friction, and more flow in our work.
(00:47):
My mission is to help changemakers likeyou transform our workplaces and world.
So let's get started.
Welcome to today's Thinkydoers podcast.
If you are someone whose brainrarely stops spinning, today's
episode is gonna be a real treat.
You might relate to this.
(01:09):
I am a person who lives mostly asa brain that sometimes forgets It
has a body and body-based practiceslike meditation and breathwork have
not always been accessible to me.
But today's guest, Chauna Bryant,changed my perspective entirely.
Chauna is a breathwork professional andfounder of the Breath Liberation Society.
(01:31):
If you've ever felt like mindfulnesspractices weren't designed for
your busy brain, this conversationmight change everything.
So let's dive in.
I am so excited to have ChaunaBryant here with me today.
Chauna and I met through JamarDiggs' incredible Low-Lift Club.
(01:52):
It's a community membership training spacefor business owners who wanna use YouTube.
People who are businessoperators, not content creators.
It's also one of the bestmemberships I've ever joined.
So, Chauna, tell people whoare you and what do you do.
My name is Chauna Bryant.
I am from Los Angeles and I'mcurrently living in Maryland.
(02:14):
I am a breathworker, I'ma pilates instructor and A
Gyrotonic movement instructor.
I do a lot of things,body, energy, and breath.
In 2021, I founded a communityand online learning school
called Breath Liberation Society.
We are globally accredited, Weare the first Black-owned program
(02:34):
to be globally accredited throughthe Global Professional Breathwork
Alliance We're in our sixth cohortand we are moving into a hybrid model.
We run our training mainly virtually,but now as of July 2025, I'm
moving into a more hybrid model.
I'm going to be in a couple differentcities and it's an exciting time.
I'm a dog mom, I have twobrindle rescue pitties.
(02:55):
So that's who I am.
Hi!
For folks who are not familiarwith the concept of breathwork,
can you tell us what that is?
Sure.
Breathwork is an umbrella term, butit most closely describes a breathing
pattern, an intentional breath thattakes the brain out of the equation and
welcomes the body up to the microphone.
(03:17):
It's an active meditation.
Some ones that are more popularwould be box breathing, the
alternate nasal breathing.
The two styles of breath that are morepopular for longer form breathwork, so
for 40 or 30 minutes, are the consciousconnected breath and that involves
breathing in to the mouth into the body.
(03:38):
A big breath in with an easy exhale,big breath in with an easy exhale.
And you just do that and it'sso simple but it's so powerful.
The second style that I teach is called,the three-part breath, it breathes into
the mouth, into the belly, into themouth, into the chest with an exhale.
And then you do that repetitively.
(03:58):
And as I said, the breath just gives thebody and the brain really something to do.
I have nieces and nephews.
If you give them an iPad, youbuy yourself, like, 20 minutes.
You can shower, right?
That's what the breath does.
It's something that for those ofus, especially with busy brains, the
breath gives the brain something to do.
It's like just out-of-the-ordinaryenough, breathing through the mouth.
(04:21):
It's just like weird enoughwhere you're like, "What am I
doing?" To where it really givesthe body some time to process.
It gives the body some time to startunpacking some things, like, "Okay,
there's that emotion that I shoved ona shelf and ignored, because it was
inappropriate to cry in public, oh,there's that emotion that stressed me
out." It's really just a pause, and it'sa welcoming for our bodies to start to
(04:44):
work through the things that maybe wehaven't taken the time to work through.
Is there anything that you wouldlike to share about origins
of of breathwork practice.
Yeah.
So origins of breathwork practiceare something that is quite tricky
because when we talk about theorigins of breathwork, we talk about
colonialism, we talk about colonization,and the disappearing of so many
(05:12):
different lineages across the world.
And places where breathwork is mostmentioned and most referenced and most
documented, it comes down to more of apranayama breath out of Southeast Asia.
So I a hundred percent give credit tothe pranayama breath and that lineage.
With that said, I am very confidentthat most of our ancestors
(05:36):
found ways to access the breath.
You'll see little sprinklesof it in different places.
There are warriors in Africa, some ofthe oldest tribes in Africa that use the
breath to power them through to battle.
In South America, there are cultures thathave practices around the first breath
of a body or the last breath of a body.
(05:59):
If you just pay attention a little,there's breath in almost everything.
One of the reasons I was so excitedto have you on is, like, I try not to
make this podcast like a focus group ofone, but I also just do this for fun.
And so I'm just gonna be honest,I am a person who is a brain that
forgets it has a body, and somaticpractices and body-based anything is
(06:24):
really not always accessible to me.
I felt invited into your practice,even though I am the least
likely person ever to voluntarilyopt in to something somatic.
So congrats.
Well done.
You're welcome.
And I would say I'm probablythe second least likely person
(06:45):
to opt into something somatics.
I'm probably the like least chillmeditation teacher you'll ever meet.
I think a lot of times when we thinkabout meditation or a lot of embodiment
practices, which immediately takesit out of reach of a lot of people,
myself included, it becomes thisthing where it's, okay, we're gonna
sit so still on a rock with a gentlebreeze, and like a random tree in
(07:06):
the background, and a blue sky.
And you're gonna hold yourfingers and just take like deep
breaths in and out, which I knowmakes me wanna crawl up a wall.
And meditation as somebody who like idlesat anxious, the idea of this like still
practice was very out of reach for me.
The breath is something thatbridged that for me, it's active.
You're doing something.
(07:27):
It reaches its hand out, asopposed to you having to just fully
submit and surrender into a thing.
I've seen how accessible your workin practice is to people who aren't
traditional sit-down, be-still,be-quiet kind of mindfulness folks.
But I didn't realize that yourtransformation was as big as it is.
So, tell me where did you start andthen how did you get to where you are?
(07:51):
Where did I start?
I think I was always the kid thatthe report card was like, "Chauna
talks too much." I'm a chatty person.
I am like the introvert whisper,awkward doesn't phase me.
I was a childhood performer.
I sang a lot as a kid, andtrained vocally for a long time.
I started, as a gymnast anda singer, so body and voice.
(08:15):
And I had quit all of that bythe time I got to high school.
And when I was in college, I knew Iwasn't gonna be like an office job
person and I graduated in the early2000 and went, into an economy that
wasn't super hiring at the time.
I worked in retail, I bartended, I startedtaking science classes because I thought
(08:35):
I wanted to be a physical therapist.
I remember calling places, asking if theywould hire me because I wanted to get
some like experience so I could writethat on my physical therapist application.
And this woman that I talked to waslike, "The industry is changing.
You should either go become a massagetherapist or a Pilates instructor.
And when you do that, call me back." Iwas like, "Cool, what's Pilates?" So I
(08:59):
started learning Pilates, and it stuck.
I was working retail, and teachingPilates and bartending, and
just trying get things going.
Being a fitness instructor and paying yourbills with it is actually quite a feat.
I was just grinding it out untilI had enough Pilates clients
I finally quit bartending.
I really wanted to create my own Pilatesreformer that blended cardio and Pilates.
(09:23):
And I wanted to go andlearn how to run a business.
I took myself up to New York.
It took like the bus, there's this like.
$30 round trip bus that you cantake from Washington DC to New York.
And I, I remember going to the super poshconference, and all these big deal people.
And I sat and listened to everybody talkabout how they were running these like
(09:45):
giant wellness businesses and they wereall doing it with one secret, what was it?
Meditation.
And like, I, I could roll myeyes a lot on this, but yeah,
that's what they were doing.
They were all meditating andit was, I'm sure they all were
sitting on like a lot of VC money.
I'm sure they all had assistanceup the wazoo, but effortlessly
(10:08):
they were like, oh, I meditate.
And I was like, done.
I'll meditate.
So again, I started meditating,and it was not a success.
I had a little chartand I'd be like, "Okay.
I meditated.
Good?
Bad?
How long?" And I keep my chart andI will, I tell you, all the bad
was marked off more times than not.
And actually I don't think I can do this.
(10:29):
And also, y'all are gonnabe surprised by this.
It didn't fix the fact that I wasn'tsleeping more than four hours a night.
It wasn't a magic wand.
It was a total bummer.
I kept teaching Pilates, I keptbuilding my business, and I would go
home to LA and take classes there.
I'd go up to New Yorkand take classes there.
And I kept seeing "breathwork" onschedules, but again, I'm from the
Valleys, like, going all the wayup to like the Venice for a 6:00 PM
(10:52):
breathwork class wasn't gonna happen.
So I kept seeing breathwork,but I kept not doing breathwork.
And finally, I just startedGoogling around and like trying
to figure out what it was.
And I think I found like a podcast ofsomebody talking about breathwork and
then they talked about their teacher.
And I was like, "Cool".
Believe it or not, that's the short way.
Because I was also working withsomebody at the time who was guiding
(11:13):
me through breathwork, but I justdidn't know it was breathwork.
So that's how we got here.
I didn't become aware of breathwork asa thing until my long COVID recovery.
That was when I realized I'd beenexposed to breathing and breath stuff
as part of mindfulness practice.
There are a couple nuggets thatyou've said, like the breathing part
(11:36):
of mindfulness is doing something,and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that’s
so true, that makes sense." That'sone of the ways that some of us who
are more somatically challenged ormore sit-still-be-quiet challenged,
you know, gives us something to do.
What would you say to people whoare new to somatic practices or who
(11:58):
are resistant to somatic practices?
How would you suggest folks get started?
Yep.
So I have two suggestions.
One is to get extra curiousand try different things.
There are hundreds of differentways to develop a somatic practice.
And I think what happens a lot oftimes, and that's certainly been my
(12:21):
personal experience, is that we try oneor two and we're like, "No, thank you.
That's not for me.
I tried it, it wasawkward, I didn't enjoy it.
No thank you.
I'm a fitness person.
I enjoy moving my body.
And I remember going to a workoutclass once and they like turned off
the music and they were like, "Everyonejust feel your body. Move, your body."
(12:43):
I stood completely still on that mat.
I stood still and I like, watchedeverybody around me do all this stuff.
I was a breathworker by then.
This was the developed Chauna.
And I stood so still in thatmat, and maybe I managed like a
two-step, but I was like, "I don't.I can't. What?" It was such an
(13:04):
outrageous invitation to ask of me.
And I don't fault the teacher at all.
It was obviously like that's what peopledo in that class and they looked amazing.
Like, I can now go to that classand do it, but it took me a while.
Luckily, that specific class, theystarted doing virtual workouts during
COVID, so I was able, like in myapartment, like two-step eventually.
(13:24):
But we're talking months of getting there.
And really I'm like, "How am I liketelling people to like, feel their
bodies, and then when I'm invited tofeel my body, I can't do it at all?"
So that was a fun little life lesson.
I think it's just, youknow, find different things.
And the second thing that I'ma big fan of is titration.
And that's like a microdose of things,and just let that microdose ride.
(13:46):
Small bits, whatever you're doing.
Try like a minute, try two minutes.
Holotropic breathwork is one of themore original forms of breathwork
that has been talked about andacknowledged in the history books.
This is one of the morewell-known styles of breathwork.
One that made breathworkmore popular in the States.
(14:07):
Those sessions are liketwo hours, three hours.
That's a lot.
Rather than going like in the mosthardcore fashion, whatever somatic
practice you're trying to practice,give it two minutes and then get out.
Give it two minutes and then get out.
Find those two minutes.
If you get two minutes of breathworkevery day, every other day, once a week,
whatever is regular to you, it'll build.
(14:28):
Just give it a little bit of time.
It's okay to not have to, plunge yourselfinto the full experience right away.
it's totally fine to just build intothat practice little bit by little bit.
That's the way to start to build thatbody tolerance, that body connection.
With that, you are showing yourbody that you're listening and that
you're not going anywhere and thatyou can keep showing up and you
(14:52):
can celebrate those little moments.
It doesn't have to be this giant thing.
Just let those little moments happen.
And eventually the twominutes are gonna be nothing.
And then maybe you move to twoand a half, maybe we have to
three, but it doesn't have to bea 45-minute experience right away.
I always wonder if these things arejust me, and I think they aren't.
One of the things I've becomeaware of is, since a certain point
(15:13):
in therapy, I've been aware of myall-or-nothing tendencies thinking.
I also have some perfectionistwiring that I really struggle to
coexist with in a productive way.
What you're saying is just very soothingto me when I think about practices
(15:36):
that challenge my all-or-nothingand challenge my perfectionism.
I'm the hardcore, "You gotta doit right." I gotta do it right.
And so I really love the permissionto just say, start anywhere.
I met my wife in CrossFit.
Like we.
A very much hardcore person.
And and like I get really, if I compareit to fitness and if I think about squats
(15:57):
and I'm just like, there's no point.
If you're not gonna go full depth,you might as well not do it at all,
you know, half reps, half results.
All of that plays in my brain constantly.
It's hard to give this a little bit ofspace and I'm gonna just try a little.
It's hard to just try a little.
I'm certainly the same way where I'mlike, not only am I gonna do this,
I'm gonna do it so well, I'm gonnado it better than anybody here.
(16:19):
that's not the way to thatbody connection, unfortunately.
For a lot of us who have busybrains, patience is gonna be our
first form of body connection.
Just a little bit of patience.
One of the things you've done ismade the transition from being a
student expert to being a reallyawesome teacher of what you do.
I'd love for you to talk a littlebit about that transition and why
(16:40):
you decided to start teaching yourpractice and what teaching does for you.
Thank you.
That's a good question.
What it comes down to is thatI've been teaching forever.
I have a sister that's two years younger.
Anytime I learned anything,she learned something.
So I learned to read at five,she learned to read at three.
(17:01):
Everything I learned, I taught her.
And it was fun for me.
And then I taught movement.
I taught people how to use theirbodies, how to relax into an
exercise while keeping your musclesengaged, for 15, 20 years now.
I think I've always been a littlebit of a different learner.
It was hard for me in school.
I always worked much harderthan everyone and got like C's.
I had a really hard time.
It takes me way longer to understandanything than most people around me.
(17:25):
But once I get it, watch the fuck out,I can explain it in 80 different ways.
I can figure out which wayyour brain needs to hear it.
I can bridge it together.
As long as I stay on track, as longas I keep going straight and I don't
get caught off on six other storiesor two soapboxes, I can teach stuff.
And I enjoy doing it.
(17:45):
I love being able to figure outwhat someone's thought patterns
are and then find ways forthem to understand the topic.
And also the other side is that I'm aPilates instructor, which is important
for the story of breathwork becauseI saw breathwork really exploding.
And we walked away fromour training community.
(18:05):
And I was like, we can't let whathappened to Pilates happen to breathwork.
And it did.
With Pilates, you can do a Pilatescertification that's 800 hours or 8
hours, and they hold the same weight.
It's an unregulated deal, which is goodfor some reasons and not for others.
I had so much respect for it.
After my first set of training that Itook, I kept running into situations
(18:27):
where I felt very untrained to be there.
And I think that's a big partof why I had to learn so much.
I am unprepared to be here, andI'm not gonna have that again.
I was like, " You won't catchme uninformed again." That's
not going to happen twice.
I kept learning and when I started tothink about where I wanted breathwork
to go and what I wanted to see in thebreathwork community, I recognized
that I was going to have to take a steptowards creating a pathway for people
(18:51):
to learn and to hold space responsibly.
So that way not only could theybe great breathworkers, but also
like great wellness professionals.
I do run a breathwork training, mytraining will give you the tools to
facilitate anything in a responsible way.
It will give you the tools to relateto others, to hold space for others,
(19:13):
to show up for others, and that can beyourself, that can be your community,
that can be your spouse, your best friend.
we talk a lot about how to just show upfor one another even in ways where we're
maybe a little bit uncomfortable, evenin ways where we don't feel completely
like well-versed in the subject.
How to show up, and how to hold space,and how to let people feel like they
are seen, and they're witnessed,and they are valid, and all of their
(19:37):
things, their thoughts and their dreamsare valid when they're around us.
And that's what I train,but also how to responsibly
facilitate a breathwork session.
That all came through for me so stronglywhen you talked about your school.
One of the things I think is reallycool in what you just talked about
that I relate to is learning was hard.
And once I do figure something out,then I feel like I have a duty to
(20:00):
make it easier for other peoplewho might also struggle to learn.
Especially in therapy and mindfulnessand other kinds of wellness practices,
it's just a really good reminder to lookfor the teachers who you can learn from.
Teachers whose work makes senseto you and makes you feel welcomed
(20:21):
and educated instead of confused.
So I think that's a reallyimportant point that you brought up.
Can you tell me anything, this mightor might not be possible, but when you
think about the folks listening to thispodcast who are Thinkydoers, like we're
the folks who overthink, and overdo.
(20:43):
When you think about those listeners,what would you say to folks who maybe
aren't as experienced with nervoussystem regulation and the role that the
nervous system plays in how we operate?
So much.
Starting with a bit of a lecture.
I think that the nervous system issomething that is really sexy to talk
(21:05):
about right now, and I think has turnedout to be quite profitable for a lot
of people to talk about and to finddifferent ways for all of us to focus in
on specifically what's being said so thatway we can change our lives, change our
nervous system, train our vagal, whatever.
(21:26):
Throw a rock and you're gonna hitsomebody selling you something
or promising you this is the wayto train your nervous system.
So first, what I wanna say isthat your body is your body.
Your nervous system, your nervous system.
Try, when you're thinking about waysto learn about the nervous system,
to do so with an open mind and todo it without an intended goal.
(21:51):
Because obviously we allwanna be less stressed out.
I get that on its face.
We live in a very crazy, hard world.
So those are all incrediblyhonest and genuine goals.
But when I was creating the nervoussystem, like introduction to the nervous
system, the trauma-informed care,lectures of Breath Abration Society, I
(22:13):
promised my students, and I have to tellyou, my students are the best, because
in the building of this, every time Iran it, I was like, I'm still building.
People were like, yep, I'm in.
And the patience they had, and thishappened because I was like, I'm gonna
make these lectures showing peoplehow breath interacts with the nervous
system and how we can use the breathto help us regain more of a sense
(22:38):
of normalcy and things like that.
And it took me a year to make thoselectures because I felt like I
was pulling out a little string.
And that's my first point around likenervous system care and integration,
there's always gonna be so much to learn.
The doctors, the people, theneuroscientists are still learning.
There's so much to do it.
(22:59):
We know, I think, like 2% ofwhat our nervous system's doing.
So I want you, as you're learningabout the nervous system, to do so.
Again, with an open mind with theidea that this is like one out of a
hundred things that we know about.
There's so much that we don't know about.
As I was learning, it took me like ayear, when I can really dial it in,
I'm very like check mark, nail it.
(23:20):
But I kept learning, and it was reallyhard for me to decide what to include
and what not to, because there's so muchto learn and there's so much material.
But what I ultimately took awayfrom creating those lectures was
life-changing, because I learned allabout how, when we are stressed out,
(23:43):
how it affects our physical body.
And I learned about how whenwe are stressed out, and
using a really simple term.
I hope it's not weighted toanyone, but when we're in stress
mode, we're less likely to learn.
What I recognize and what I ask mystudents, when they're going through these
lectures, to recognize is that when wered line our life, and that's whether it's
(24:05):
by choice or not, it affects our health.
And in making those lectures, Icompletely change the way I do.
So many different things in mylife, like as somebody who was
perfectly fine redlining, I waslike, whatever, I'll muscle this out.
I was like, how can I run thisbusiness much, much easier?
How can I be nicer to myself?
(24:26):
I think I started to understand whoI'm as a person a lot more, the more
I learned about the nervous system.
When I got into the polyvagal theoryand all of those different things.
Again, none of those are hard and truefacts, but I learned so much about me.
And I think if I just walked inthere like, I wanna learn how
to be less stressed out, then Iwould've missed a lot of the points.
Ultimately, what I did is, and it'shard to not like self-diagnose through
(24:49):
a lot of these things, but like Isaid, when you're going into any sort
of nervous system work, allow forso much curiosity and just learn.
And follow what feels interestingto you and just follow let the
rabbit holes happen, and befascinated with how beautiful and
how unbelievable our bodies are.
And then take what tiny bitsyou can and play around with it.
(25:10):
Like I said, I was like,okay, I work too much.
I work too many hours.
How can I work fewer hours?
That's it.
I wasn't like, I guess I'mgonna re-do that my whole life.
I was just like, simply put, Ineed to work a little bit less.
What's the first thingI can do around that?
And that's where I took it.
And I know that the nervous systemcan feel like this giant thing, and
(25:30):
anyone who tells you it isn't isnot telling you the whole story.
I recommend like a self-guided tour.
Just, figure out what learningstyle works best for you.
One of the other focuses youhave is on being trauma-informed
and really practicing in away that's trauma-informed.
Big T and little T trauma I thinkare really common in my listeners.
(25:50):
I can only speak for myself, but that hasbeen one of the barriers for me in doing
any kind of body-based or somatic work.
It's like those cables justgot disconnected when I
was really, really little.
For folks who have a trauma history, andwho might have felt like mindfulness or
body-based practices were like touchinga burner that's on the stove, so we
(26:13):
recoil and then don't try it again.
You already mentioned titration, but isthere anything else that you can say for
folks who have experienced trauma wherethat's one of the barriers to breath work?
For somebody who has experiencedtrauma, a couple points.
There are different types ofbreath for different types of days.
(26:34):
Breathwork is this likevery vague umbrella term.
You'll see people like post jog videosand they're like tag breathwork.
they're like riding abicycle, tag breathwork.
It's an anything term at this point.
But specific breathing exercises,there's hundreds of them that you can do.
And what I recommend is a little bit ofself-practice around determining what
(26:57):
breath is helpful in what situation.
When someone's really in an activatedplace, doing an activated breathwork
that is not gonna be helpful to them.
But if someone is in a place wherethey tend to always default into
almost like sleep state, wherethey're just going to just numb
completely out, maybe an activatingbreathwork session might be better
(27:18):
to help them start to moderate that.
Ultimately with breathwork, what Irecommend everybody understand is that
activating breath is intended to activate.
I'm not gonna make any assumptions,I think sometimes there's a
misunderstanding with breathwork thatit's meditation, and a meditation
that's only there to help us calm down.
(27:40):
And so if someone tries breathwork becausethey're trying to calm down again, they're
gonna be like, "What the fuck? I got moreupset." The way I explain and understand
breathwork to be is that breathworkis intended to create these moments
of agitation so that we can practicesmall or micro-dosing stress here.
So that we can practice feeling a littlebit of that agitated, amped-up feeling
(28:03):
and then go into our sense of normalcy.
And really what we're doing iswe're just like feeling like
pushups with our nervous system.
We're going voluntarily, whichis very rarely the case in
most traumatic experiences.
We are voluntarily moving intoan agitated space and then we're
completing that stress cycle.
So we're going from an agitated spaceto a sense of normalcy with our control.
(28:24):
If you are wanting to learn traumaintegration through breathwork,
that's the first understanding.
It agitates, it stirs the pot.
So go in with that expectation,unless you want to feel more calm.
If I'm feeling pretty anxious,there are breaths I go to.
If I'm in a spot where I'm feelinglike really supported and really
ready to go, and I'm like, "Let'sgo heal some shit," then I'm gonna
go into a more agitated breath.
(28:45):
But just recognize thatthere are different types of
breath for different days.
And the last thing I'm gonna say isthat the reason why it's so helpful
for those of us with traumatic lifeexperiences, it's because it does
allow us to start to experience littlebits of stress without having to talk
about it, without having to name wordsto it, without having to feel it in our
bodies or tell a therapist about it.
(29:06):
We can feel it, and then we cango into a state of normalcy.
I hate when I hear peopletalking about releasing trauma.
We're not.
The goal here is to create ways forus to be able to experience moments of
stress and not be completely derailed.
Our goal is (29:20):
to feel stress and go back to normalcy, and to train
our bodies that it's possible.
So oftentimes when we have traumaticexperiences due to resources or age
or maturity or safety, we don't havethose moments where we get to have that
stressful experience and then walk away.
And then someone's like, "How areyou?" And you're like, "I'm well,"
(29:40):
and shake out the animal thing.
So when we go into the breathworkvoluntarily and shake things up and then
move into normalcy, we're retrainingour bodies that we can feel stress and
not every time is a lion chasing us.
This World is stressful.
The world is going togive us stressful things.
And the goal is to train our bodiesto know whether or not we're being
chased by a lion, or whether or notsomeone just cut us off in a car.
(30:03):
We wanna be able to know the difference.
And either way, we want our bodies toknow that we can go back to normalcy.
That's the whole point.
If you're trying to use meditation toonly be calm, you're not training yourself
for this real world that we live in.
You're not training yourself tobe able to experience things.
And again, the super calmmeditations are good for the body.
They're really good.
It's okay use the breathwork.
(30:24):
Use the calm one.
Take the calm breath.
The recognition that it is necessaryand helpful for some people to have
practices that allow us to be nonverbal.
I didn't learn that until I accidentallystarted art therapy a couple years ago.
so I think it just really means alot to learn and hear about practices
(30:47):
that recognize that some of us gonon-verbal when we're over threshold.
And that doesn't mean thatthere's nothing we can do to heal.
It means we just have to be alittle more creative with finding
modalities that work for us.
Exactly.
Yeah, just a little bit more creative.
And language is so weighted anyways.
Even for someone that's not nonverbal,it can feel really frustrating to
(31:10):
try and find the words to articulateexactly what happened in order for
someone else to say that it wasvalid, to say that it was impactful.
So just taking away that needed space, andjust letting that experience exist without
having to slap words on it, which can beso polarizing sometimes is quite freeing.
(31:30):
And it also allows for progress to bemade even when the words don't exist.
There's another element in what you'vebeen talking about that stands out
to me that I think a lot of us whoare wired the way we are, because we
wanna do everything right, we go intothings focused on doing it right.
And even in meditation and mindfulness,which have a lot of emphasis on
(31:52):
noticing, we might be more focusedon the doing than the noticing.
And what you're talking aboutcelebrates the noticing.
Part of the win is just the noticing asopposed to doing the breathwork right,
and that's something I struggled with inmindfulness practice, and so it's a good
reminder that the success can just bein noticing, and that's where it starts.
(32:16):
I'll go a step past that.
The success isn't even like taking thebreaths and adding intention to it.
I always say, whether or not yourbrain does jumping jacks a second you
start the breathing pattern, or ifyou go into complete zen space, if
you fall asleep, if you cry, whatever.
Just showing up and stepping up tothat plate, that's the celebration.
The celebration startsthe second you start.
(32:38):
If you make it three breaths,we celebrate it at breath one.
That's it, you just haveto get there and try it.
And that's all I celebrate.
It's so easy to let the braingo a million different places.
And I always just tell people like,whatever your brain's doing, let it do it.
Just breathe right past it.
Just keep breathing.
The brain can do whatever.
If your brain raced today,you still did breathwork.
(32:59):
If your brain went black today,you still did breathwork.
And both believe it or not, are impactful.
Um, even in little bits, They're impactfuland that, and we have to let that count.
Breathwork can have almostan ecstatic feeling, almost
a like psychedelic feeling.
And that's something I love aboutbreathwork because you can reach that
ecstatic feeling, that psychedelic feelingwith, without actually ingesting anything.
(33:23):
So you do have the option atevery moment to be like, too
much, or I'm gonna pause here.
And that's not somethingthat's accessible.
You can't do that if you've ingestedsomething, you're along for the ride.
It's no longer up to you.
And I think there's something sopowerful, especially for those
of us with traumatic experiences.
There's something so powerful in each ofus being able to choose what we do and do
(33:49):
not participate in, and knowing that wehave that choice throughout the practice.
I think there's something so powerful inbeing able to say, "Enough for today."
There's something so powerful in decidingthat you can go a little further today.
Bringing that agency into thepractice is something that
I love seeing in my clients.
And that's something we talk a lot aboutat Breath Liberation Society, letting
(34:11):
people know that the session is for them.
That they don't have to perform for us.
They don't have to get to aspecific destination for us.
That we are really here as facilitatorsto hold the space while this person
goes through their own process.
And that they, the person, thebreather, gets to choose as
much or as little as they do.
And they can do so without judgment,and they can do so without questioning.
(34:34):
And that whatever they choose,they'll be cheered on fiercely.
I almost feel like it's just becauseit's so novel for most people that
when we go into yoga, like for example,like my athlete brain kicks in.
I have to do it, I have to pushthrough and do it strong, and even
when that's not the point of yoga.
My programming around my body andmovement is so strong, but breathwork
(35:00):
just feels like this sneaky side novel.
This hasn't been explored oract, I don't have any baggage.
I don't bring anything to it.
It's just a really cool brain trickI hadn't thought about any of that
before listening to you talk today.
But I'm like, no wonder I'm drawn to this.
I don't have any baggage around it.
Baggage around the mindfulnessstuff, but not specifically about the
(35:22):
breathwork element of body connection.
So for folks who are curious now tolearn more, where can they find you?
The name of my school is BreathLiberation Society, and we are
moving into a more hybrid model.
So for five years we've beenall virtual for good reason.
But now that it is slightly safer togather in person, we are hitting the road.
(35:44):
So I'm going to be offering somein-person breathwork trainings.
And then if you wanna keep going, if youwanna learn more about facilitation, there
will be a hybrid learning experience.
You can find me atbreathliberationsociety.com.
Otherwise, my name is Chauna witha C and I'm really easy to find.
Well, Chauna, I am just sucha huge fan of your work.
Even more so after hearing more today.
(36:07):
I look forward to a bunch ofThinkydoers in your experiences, and
I just really wanna thank you formaking the time to join me today
You're welcome.. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much to Chauna Bryantfor that incredible conversation.
If you're curious about Chauna'straining programs at Breath
(36:29):
Liberation Society, you can findher at breathliberationsociety.com.
She's also easy to find on Instagram.
Under her name, Chauna, with a C, Bryant.
You can always reach me atfindrc.co or on any social platform.
I'm pretty sure I'm still theonly Sara Lobkovich out there.
(36:50):
And if you haven't already,please subscribe to Thinkydoers
wherever you listen to podcastsand consider leaving us a review.
These conversations really matterand they reach more people when
you help share and amplify them.
My work in accessible useful strategy,goal setting and leadership development
with organizations and individualsis what makes this podcast possible.
(37:14):
So if you know someone who might benefitfrom that work or if you're interested
in collaboration opportunities, referralsare always welcome and deeply appreciated.
Thank you for listening,and I'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast.
Thinkydoers are those of us drawnto deep work, where thinking is
working, but we don't stop there.
We're compelled to move the work frominsight to idea, through the messy
middle, to find courage and confidenceto put our thoughts into action.
I'm your host, Sara Lobkovich.
(00:24):
I'm a strategy coach, a huge goal-settingand attainment nerd, and board-certified
health and wellness coach working atthe overlap of work life well-being I'm.
Also a Thinkydoer.
I'm here to help others find moresatisfaction, less frustration, less
friction, and more flow in our work.
(00:47):
My mission is to help changemakers likeyou transform our workplaces and world.
So let's get started.
Welcome to today's Thinkydoers podcast.
If you are someone whose brainrarely stops spinning, today's
episode is gonna be a real treat.
You might relate to this.
(01:09):
I am a person who lives mostly asa brain that sometimes forgets It
has a body and body-based practiceslike meditation and breathwork have
not always been accessible to me.
But today's guest, Chauna Bryant,changed my perspective entirely.
Chauna is a breathwork professional andfounder of the Breath Liberation Society.
(01:31):
If you've ever felt like mindfulnesspractices weren't designed for
your busy brain, this conversationmight change everything.
So let's dive in.
I am so excited to have ChaunaBryant here with me today.
Chauna and I met through JamarDiggs' incredible Low-Lift Club.
(01:52):
It's a community membership training spacefor business owners who wanna use YouTube.
People who are businessoperators, not content creators.
It's also one of the bestmemberships I've ever joined.
So, Chauna, tell people whoare you and what do you do.
My name is Chauna Bryant.
I am from Los Angeles and I'mcurrently living in Maryland.
(02:14):
I am a breathworker, I'ma pilates instructor and A
Gyrotonic movement instructor.
I do a lot of things,body, energy, and breath.
In 2021, I founded a communityand online learning school
called Breath Liberation Society.
We are globally accredited, Weare the first Black-owned program
(02:34):
to be globally accredited throughthe Global Professional Breathwork
Alliance We're in our sixth cohortand we are moving into a hybrid model.
We run our training mainly virtually,but now as of July 2025, I'm
moving into a more hybrid model.
I'm going to be in a couple differentcities and it's an exciting time.
I'm a dog mom, I have twobrindle rescue pitties.
(02:55):
So that's who I am.
Hi!
For folks who are not familiarwith the concept of breathwork,
can you tell us what that is?
Sure.
Breathwork is an umbrella term, butit most closely describes a breathing
pattern, an intentional breath thattakes the brain out of the equation and
welcomes the body up to the microphone.
(03:17):
It's an active meditation.
Some ones that are more popularwould be box breathing, the
alternate nasal breathing.
The two styles of breath that are morepopular for longer form breathwork, so
for 40 or 30 minutes, are the consciousconnected breath and that involves
breathing in to the mouth into the body.
(03:38):
A big breath in with an easy exhale,big breath in with an easy exhale.
And you just do that and it'sso simple but it's so powerful.
The second style that I teach is called,the three-part breath, it breathes into
the mouth, into the belly, into themouth, into the chest with an exhale.
And then you do that repetitively.
(03:58):
And as I said, the breath just gives thebody and the brain really something to do.
I have nieces and nephews.
If you give them an iPad, youbuy yourself, like, 20 minutes.
You can shower, right?
That's what the breath does.
It's something that for those ofus, especially with busy brains, the
breath gives the brain something to do.
It's like just out-of-the-ordinaryenough, breathing through the mouth.
(04:21):
It's just like weird enoughwhere you're like, "What am I
doing?" To where it really givesthe body some time to process.
It gives the body some time to startunpacking some things, like, "Okay,
there's that emotion that I shoved ona shelf and ignored, because it was
inappropriate to cry in public, oh,there's that emotion that stressed me
out." It's really just a pause, and it'sa welcoming for our bodies to start to
(04:44):
work through the things that maybe wehaven't taken the time to work through.
Is there anything that you wouldlike to share about origins
of of breathwork practice.
Yeah.
So origins of breathwork practiceare something that is quite tricky
because when we talk about theorigins of breathwork, we talk about
colonialism, we talk about colonization,and the disappearing of so many
(05:12):
different lineages across the world.
And places where breathwork is mostmentioned and most referenced and most
documented, it comes down to more of apranayama breath out of Southeast Asia.
So I a hundred percent give credit tothe pranayama breath and that lineage.
With that said, I am very confidentthat most of our ancestors
(05:36):
found ways to access the breath.
You'll see little sprinklesof it in different places.
There are warriors in Africa, some ofthe oldest tribes in Africa that use the
breath to power them through to battle.
In South America, there are cultures thathave practices around the first breath
of a body or the last breath of a body.
(05:59):
If you just pay attention a little,there's breath in almost everything.
One of the reasons I was so excitedto have you on is, like, I try not to
make this podcast like a focus group ofone, but I also just do this for fun.
And so I'm just gonna be honest,I am a person who is a brain that
forgets it has a body, and somaticpractices and body-based anything is
(06:24):
really not always accessible to me.
I felt invited into your practice,even though I am the least
likely person ever to voluntarilyopt in to something somatic.
So congrats.
Well done.
You're welcome.
And I would say I'm probablythe second least likely person
(06:45):
to opt into something somatics.
I'm probably the like least chillmeditation teacher you'll ever meet.
I think a lot of times when we thinkabout meditation or a lot of embodiment
practices, which immediately takesit out of reach of a lot of people,
myself included, it becomes thisthing where it's, okay, we're gonna
sit so still on a rock with a gentlebreeze, and like a random tree in
(07:06):
the background, and a blue sky.
And you're gonna hold yourfingers and just take like deep
breaths in and out, which I knowmakes me wanna crawl up a wall.
And meditation as somebody who like idlesat anxious, the idea of this like still
practice was very out of reach for me.
The breath is something thatbridged that for me, it's active.
You're doing something.
(07:27):
It reaches its hand out, asopposed to you having to just fully
submit and surrender into a thing.
I've seen how accessible your workin practice is to people who aren't
traditional sit-down, be-still,be-quiet kind of mindfulness folks.
But I didn't realize that yourtransformation was as big as it is.
So, tell me where did you start andthen how did you get to where you are?
(07:51):
Where did I start?
I think I was always the kid thatthe report card was like, "Chauna
talks too much." I'm a chatty person.
I am like the introvert whisper,awkward doesn't phase me.
I was a childhood performer.
I sang a lot as a kid, andtrained vocally for a long time.
I started, as a gymnast anda singer, so body and voice.
(08:15):
And I had quit all of that bythe time I got to high school.
And when I was in college, I knew Iwasn't gonna be like an office job
person and I graduated in the early2000 and went, into an economy that
wasn't super hiring at the time.
I worked in retail, I bartended, I startedtaking science classes because I thought
(08:35):
I wanted to be a physical therapist.
I remember calling places, asking if theywould hire me because I wanted to get
some like experience so I could writethat on my physical therapist application.
And this woman that I talked to waslike, "The industry is changing.
You should either go become a massagetherapist or a Pilates instructor.
And when you do that, call me back." Iwas like, "Cool, what's Pilates?" So I
(08:59):
started learning Pilates, and it stuck.
I was working retail, and teachingPilates and bartending, and
just trying get things going.
Being a fitness instructor and paying yourbills with it is actually quite a feat.
I was just grinding it out untilI had enough Pilates clients
I finally quit bartending.
I really wanted to create my own Pilatesreformer that blended cardio and Pilates.
(09:23):
And I wanted to go andlearn how to run a business.
I took myself up to New York.
It took like the bus, there's this like.
$30 round trip bus that you cantake from Washington DC to New York.
And I, I remember going to the super poshconference, and all these big deal people.
And I sat and listened to everybody talkabout how they were running these like
(09:45):
giant wellness businesses and they wereall doing it with one secret, what was it?
Meditation.
And like, I, I could roll myeyes a lot on this, but yeah,
that's what they were doing.
They were all meditating andit was, I'm sure they all were
sitting on like a lot of VC money.
I'm sure they all had assistanceup the wazoo, but effortlessly
(10:08):
they were like, oh, I meditate.
And I was like, done.
I'll meditate.
So again, I started meditating,and it was not a success.
I had a little chartand I'd be like, "Okay.
I meditated.
Good?
Bad?
How long?" And I keep my chart andI will, I tell you, all the bad
was marked off more times than not.
And actually I don't think I can do this.
(10:29):
And also, y'all are gonnabe surprised by this.
It didn't fix the fact that I wasn'tsleeping more than four hours a night.
It wasn't a magic wand.
It was a total bummer.
I kept teaching Pilates, I keptbuilding my business, and I would go
home to LA and take classes there.
I'd go up to New Yorkand take classes there.
And I kept seeing "breathwork" onschedules, but again, I'm from the
Valleys, like, going all the wayup to like the Venice for a 6:00 PM
(10:52):
breathwork class wasn't gonna happen.
So I kept seeing breathwork,but I kept not doing breathwork.
And finally, I just startedGoogling around and like trying
to figure out what it was.
And I think I found like a podcast ofsomebody talking about breathwork and
then they talked about their teacher.
And I was like, "Cool".
Believe it or not, that's the short way.
Because I was also working withsomebody at the time who was guiding
(11:13):
me through breathwork, but I justdidn't know it was breathwork.
So that's how we got here.
I didn't become aware of breathwork asa thing until my long COVID recovery.
That was when I realized I'd beenexposed to breathing and breath stuff
as part of mindfulness practice.
There are a couple nuggets thatyou've said, like the breathing part
(11:36):
of mindfulness is doing something,and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that’s
so true, that makes sense." That'sone of the ways that some of us who
are more somatically challenged ormore sit-still-be-quiet challenged,
you know, gives us something to do.
What would you say to people whoare new to somatic practices or who
(11:58):
are resistant to somatic practices?
How would you suggest folks get started?
Yep.
So I have two suggestions.
One is to get extra curiousand try different things.
There are hundreds of differentways to develop a somatic practice.
And I think what happens a lot oftimes, and that's certainly been my
(12:21):
personal experience, is that we try oneor two and we're like, "No, thank you.
That's not for me.
I tried it, it wasawkward, I didn't enjoy it.
No thank you.
I'm a fitness person.
I enjoy moving my body.
And I remember going to a workoutclass once and they like turned off
the music and they were like, "Everyonejust feel your body. Move, your body."
(12:43):
I stood completely still on that mat.
I stood still and I like, watchedeverybody around me do all this stuff.
I was a breathworker by then.
This was the developed Chauna.
And I stood so still in thatmat, and maybe I managed like a
two-step, but I was like, "I don't.I can't. What?" It was such an
(13:04):
outrageous invitation to ask of me.
And I don't fault the teacher at all.
It was obviously like that's what peopledo in that class and they looked amazing.
Like, I can now go to that classand do it, but it took me a while.
Luckily, that specific class, theystarted doing virtual workouts during
COVID, so I was able, like in myapartment, like two-step eventually.
(13:24):
But we're talking months of getting there.
And really I'm like, "How am I liketelling people to like, feel their
bodies, and then when I'm invited tofeel my body, I can't do it at all?"
So that was a fun little life lesson.
I think it's just, youknow, find different things.
And the second thing that I'ma big fan of is titration.
And that's like a microdose of things,and just let that microdose ride.
(13:46):
Small bits, whatever you're doing.
Try like a minute, try two minutes.
Holotropic breathwork is one of themore original forms of breathwork
that has been talked about andacknowledged in the history books.
This is one of the morewell-known styles of breathwork.
One that made breathworkmore popular in the States.
(14:07):
Those sessions are liketwo hours, three hours.
That's a lot.
Rather than going like in the mosthardcore fashion, whatever somatic
practice you're trying to practice,give it two minutes and then get out.
Give it two minutes and then get out.
Find those two minutes.
If you get two minutes of breathworkevery day, every other day, once a week,
whatever is regular to you, it'll build.
(14:28):
Just give it a little bit of time.
It's okay to not have to, plunge yourselfinto the full experience right away.
it's totally fine to just build intothat practice little bit by little bit.
That's the way to start to build thatbody tolerance, that body connection.
With that, you are showing yourbody that you're listening and that
you're not going anywhere and thatyou can keep showing up and you
(14:52):
can celebrate those little moments.
It doesn't have to be this giant thing.
Just let those little moments happen.
And eventually the twominutes are gonna be nothing.
And then maybe you move to twoand a half, maybe we have to
three, but it doesn't have to bea 45-minute experience right away.
I always wonder if these things arejust me, and I think they aren't.
One of the things I've becomeaware of is, since a certain point
(15:13):
in therapy, I've been aware of myall-or-nothing tendencies thinking.
I also have some perfectionistwiring that I really struggle to
coexist with in a productive way.
What you're saying is just very soothingto me when I think about practices
(15:36):
that challenge my all-or-nothingand challenge my perfectionism.
I'm the hardcore, "You gotta doit right." I gotta do it right.
And so I really love the permissionto just say, start anywhere.
I met my wife in CrossFit.
Like we.
A very much hardcore person.
And and like I get really, if I compareit to fitness and if I think about squats
(15:57):
and I'm just like, there's no point.
If you're not gonna go full depth,you might as well not do it at all,
you know, half reps, half results.
All of that plays in my brain constantly.
It's hard to give this a little bit ofspace and I'm gonna just try a little.
It's hard to just try a little.
I'm certainly the same way where I'mlike, not only am I gonna do this,
I'm gonna do it so well, I'm gonnado it better than anybody here.
(16:19):
that's not the way to thatbody connection, unfortunately.
For a lot of us who have busybrains, patience is gonna be our
first form of body connection.
Just a little bit of patience.
One of the things you've done ismade the transition from being a
student expert to being a reallyawesome teacher of what you do.
I'd love for you to talk a littlebit about that transition and why
(16:40):
you decided to start teaching yourpractice and what teaching does for you.
Thank you.
That's a good question.
What it comes down to is thatI've been teaching forever.
I have a sister that's two years younger.
Anytime I learned anything,she learned something.
So I learned to read at five,she learned to read at three.
(17:01):
Everything I learned, I taught her.
And it was fun for me.
And then I taught movement.
I taught people how to use theirbodies, how to relax into an
exercise while keeping your musclesengaged, for 15, 20 years now.
I think I've always been a littlebit of a different learner.
It was hard for me in school.
I always worked much harderthan everyone and got like C's.
I had a really hard time.
It takes me way longer to understandanything than most people around me.
(17:25):
But once I get it, watch the fuck out,I can explain it in 80 different ways.
I can figure out which wayyour brain needs to hear it.
I can bridge it together.
As long as I stay on track, as longas I keep going straight and I don't
get caught off on six other storiesor two soapboxes, I can teach stuff.
And I enjoy doing it.
(17:45):
I love being able to figure outwhat someone's thought patterns
are and then find ways forthem to understand the topic.
And also the other side is that I'm aPilates instructor, which is important
for the story of breathwork becauseI saw breathwork really exploding.
And we walked away fromour training community.
(18:05):
And I was like, we can't let whathappened to Pilates happen to breathwork.
And it did.
With Pilates, you can do a Pilatescertification that's 800 hours or 8
hours, and they hold the same weight.
It's an unregulated deal, which is goodfor some reasons and not for others.
I had so much respect for it.
After my first set of training that Itook, I kept running into situations
(18:27):
where I felt very untrained to be there.
And I think that's a big partof why I had to learn so much.
I am unprepared to be here, andI'm not gonna have that again.
I was like, " You won't catchme uninformed again." That's
not going to happen twice.
I kept learning and when I started tothink about where I wanted breathwork
to go and what I wanted to see in thebreathwork community, I recognized
that I was going to have to take a steptowards creating a pathway for people
(18:51):
to learn and to hold space responsibly.
So that way not only could theybe great breathworkers, but also
like great wellness professionals.
I do run a breathwork training, mytraining will give you the tools to
facilitate anything in a responsible way.
It will give you the tools to relateto others, to hold space for others,
(19:13):
to show up for others, and that can beyourself, that can be your community,
that can be your spouse, your best friend.
we talk a lot about how to just show upfor one another even in ways where we're
maybe a little bit uncomfortable, evenin ways where we don't feel completely
like well-versed in the subject.
How to show up, and how to hold space,and how to let people feel like they
are seen, and they're witnessed,and they are valid, and all of their
(19:37):
things, their thoughts and their dreamsare valid when they're around us.
And that's what I train,but also how to responsibly
facilitate a breathwork session.
That all came through for me so stronglywhen you talked about your school.
One of the things I think is reallycool in what you just talked about
that I relate to is learning was hard.
And once I do figure something out,then I feel like I have a duty to
(20:00):
make it easier for other peoplewho might also struggle to learn.
Especially in therapy and mindfulnessand other kinds of wellness practices,
it's just a really good reminder to lookfor the teachers who you can learn from.
Teachers whose work makes senseto you and makes you feel welcomed
(20:21):
and educated instead of confused.
So I think that's a reallyimportant point that you brought up.
Can you tell me anything, this mightor might not be possible, but when you
think about the folks listening to thispodcast who are Thinkydoers, like we're
the folks who overthink, and overdo.
(20:43):
When you think about those listeners,what would you say to folks who maybe
aren't as experienced with nervoussystem regulation and the role that the
nervous system plays in how we operate?
So much.
Starting with a bit of a lecture.
I think that the nervous system issomething that is really sexy to talk
(21:05):
about right now, and I think has turnedout to be quite profitable for a lot
of people to talk about and to finddifferent ways for all of us to focus in
on specifically what's being said so thatway we can change our lives, change our
nervous system, train our vagal, whatever.
(21:26):
Throw a rock and you're gonna hitsomebody selling you something
or promising you this is the wayto train your nervous system.
So first, what I wanna say isthat your body is your body.
Your nervous system, your nervous system.
Try, when you're thinking about waysto learn about the nervous system,
to do so with an open mind and todo it without an intended goal.
(21:51):
Because obviously we allwanna be less stressed out.
I get that on its face.
We live in a very crazy, hard world.
So those are all incrediblyhonest and genuine goals.
But when I was creating the nervoussystem, like introduction to the nervous
system, the trauma-informed care,lectures of Breath Abration Society, I
(22:13):
promised my students, and I have to tellyou, my students are the best, because
in the building of this, every time Iran it, I was like, I'm still building.
People were like, yep, I'm in.
And the patience they had, and thishappened because I was like, I'm gonna
make these lectures showing peoplehow breath interacts with the nervous
system and how we can use the breathto help us regain more of a sense
(22:38):
of normalcy and things like that.
And it took me a year to make thoselectures because I felt like I
was pulling out a little string.
And that's my first point around likenervous system care and integration,
there's always gonna be so much to learn.
The doctors, the people, theneuroscientists are still learning.
There's so much to do it.
(22:59):
We know, I think, like 2% ofwhat our nervous system's doing.
So I want you, as you're learningabout the nervous system, to do so.
Again, with an open mind with theidea that this is like one out of a
hundred things that we know about.
There's so much that we don't know about.
As I was learning, it took me like ayear, when I can really dial it in,
I'm very like check mark, nail it.
(23:20):
But I kept learning, and it was reallyhard for me to decide what to include
and what not to, because there's so muchto learn and there's so much material.
But what I ultimately took awayfrom creating those lectures was
life-changing, because I learned allabout how, when we are stressed out,
(23:43):
how it affects our physical body.
And I learned about how whenwe are stressed out, and
using a really simple term.
I hope it's not weighted toanyone, but when we're in stress
mode, we're less likely to learn.
What I recognize and what I ask mystudents, when they're going through these
lectures, to recognize is that when wered line our life, and that's whether it's
(24:05):
by choice or not, it affects our health.
And in making those lectures, Icompletely change the way I do.
So many different things in mylife, like as somebody who was
perfectly fine redlining, I waslike, whatever, I'll muscle this out.
I was like, how can I run thisbusiness much, much easier?
How can I be nicer to myself?
(24:26):
I think I started to understand whoI'm as a person a lot more, the more
I learned about the nervous system.
When I got into the polyvagal theoryand all of those different things.
Again, none of those are hard and truefacts, but I learned so much about me.
And I think if I just walked inthere like, I wanna learn how
to be less stressed out, then Iwould've missed a lot of the points.
Ultimately, what I did is, and it'shard to not like self-diagnose through
(24:49):
a lot of these things, but like Isaid, when you're going into any sort
of nervous system work, allow forso much curiosity and just learn.
And follow what feels interestingto you and just follow let the
rabbit holes happen, and befascinated with how beautiful and
how unbelievable our bodies are.
And then take what tiny bitsyou can and play around with it.
(25:10):
Like I said, I was like,okay, I work too much.
I work too many hours.
How can I work fewer hours?
That's it.
I wasn't like, I guess I'mgonna re-do that my whole life.
I was just like, simply put, Ineed to work a little bit less.
What's the first thingI can do around that?
And that's where I took it.
And I know that the nervous systemcan feel like this giant thing, and
(25:30):
anyone who tells you it isn't isnot telling you the whole story.
I recommend like a self-guided tour.
Just, figure out what learningstyle works best for you.
One of the other focuses youhave is on being trauma-informed
and really practicing in away that's trauma-informed.
Big T and little T trauma I thinkare really common in my listeners.
(25:50):
I can only speak for myself, but that hasbeen one of the barriers for me in doing
any kind of body-based or somatic work.
It's like those cables justgot disconnected when I
was really, really little.
For folks who have a trauma history, andwho might have felt like mindfulness or
body-based practices were like touchinga burner that's on the stove, so we
(26:13):
recoil and then don't try it again.
You already mentioned titration, but isthere anything else that you can say for
folks who have experienced trauma wherethat's one of the barriers to breath work?
For somebody who has experiencedtrauma, a couple points.
There are different types ofbreath for different types of days.
(26:34):
Breathwork is this likevery vague umbrella term.
You'll see people like post jog videosand they're like tag breathwork.
they're like riding abicycle, tag breathwork.
It's an anything term at this point.
But specific breathing exercises,there's hundreds of them that you can do.
And what I recommend is a little bit ofself-practice around determining what
(26:57):
breath is helpful in what situation.
When someone's really in an activatedplace, doing an activated breathwork
that is not gonna be helpful to them.
But if someone is in a place wherethey tend to always default into
almost like sleep state, wherethey're just going to just numb
completely out, maybe an activatingbreathwork session might be better
(27:18):
to help them start to moderate that.
Ultimately with breathwork, what Irecommend everybody understand is that
activating breath is intended to activate.
I'm not gonna make any assumptions,I think sometimes there's a
misunderstanding with breathwork thatit's meditation, and a meditation
that's only there to help us calm down.
(27:40):
And so if someone tries breathwork becausethey're trying to calm down again, they're
gonna be like, "What the fuck? I got moreupset." The way I explain and understand
breathwork to be is that breathworkis intended to create these moments
of agitation so that we can practicesmall or micro-dosing stress here.
So that we can practice feeling a littlebit of that agitated, amped-up feeling
(28:03):
and then go into our sense of normalcy.
And really what we're doing iswe're just like feeling like
pushups with our nervous system.
We're going voluntarily, whichis very rarely the case in
most traumatic experiences.
We are voluntarily moving intoan agitated space and then we're
completing that stress cycle.
So we're going from an agitated spaceto a sense of normalcy with our control.
(28:24):
If you are wanting to learn traumaintegration through breathwork,
that's the first understanding.
It agitates, it stirs the pot.
So go in with that expectation,unless you want to feel more calm.
If I'm feeling pretty anxious,there are breaths I go to.
If I'm in a spot where I'm feelinglike really supported and really
ready to go, and I'm like, "Let'sgo heal some shit," then I'm gonna
go into a more agitated breath.
(28:45):
But just recognize thatthere are different types of
breath for different days.
And the last thing I'm gonna say isthat the reason why it's so helpful
for those of us with traumatic lifeexperiences, it's because it does
allow us to start to experience littlebits of stress without having to talk
about it, without having to name wordsto it, without having to feel it in our
bodies or tell a therapist about it.
(29:06):
We can feel it, and then we cango into a state of normalcy.
I hate when I hear peopletalking about releasing trauma.
We're not.
The goal here is to create ways forus to be able to experience moments of
stress and not be completely derailed.
Our goal is (29:20):
to feel stress and go back to normalcy, and to train
our bodies that it's possible.
So oftentimes when we have traumaticexperiences due to resources or age
or maturity or safety, we don't havethose moments where we get to have that
stressful experience and then walk away.
And then someone's like, "How areyou?" And you're like, "I'm well,"
(29:40):
and shake out the animal thing.
So when we go into the breathworkvoluntarily and shake things up and then
move into normalcy, we're retrainingour bodies that we can feel stress and
not every time is a lion chasing us.
This World is stressful.
The world is going togive us stressful things.
And the goal is to train our bodiesto know whether or not we're being
chased by a lion, or whether or notsomeone just cut us off in a car.
(30:03):
We wanna be able to know the difference.
And either way, we want our bodies toknow that we can go back to normalcy.
That's the whole point.
If you're trying to use meditation toonly be calm, you're not training yourself
for this real world that we live in.
You're not training yourself tobe able to experience things.
And again, the super calmmeditations are good for the body.
They're really good.
It's okay use the breathwork.
(30:24):
Use the calm one.
Take the calm breath.
The recognition that it is necessaryand helpful for some people to have
practices that allow us to be nonverbal.
I didn't learn that until I accidentallystarted art therapy a couple years ago.
so I think it just really means alot to learn and hear about practices
(30:47):
that recognize that some of us gonon-verbal when we're over threshold.
And that doesn't mean thatthere's nothing we can do to heal.
It means we just have to be alittle more creative with finding
modalities that work for us.
Exactly.
Yeah, just a little bit more creative.
And language is so weighted anyways.
Even for someone that's not nonverbal,it can feel really frustrating to
(31:10):
try and find the words to articulateexactly what happened in order for
someone else to say that it wasvalid, to say that it was impactful.
So just taking away that needed space, andjust letting that experience exist without
having to slap words on it, which can beso polarizing sometimes is quite freeing.
(31:30):
And it also allows for progress to bemade even when the words don't exist.
There's another element in what you'vebeen talking about that stands out
to me that I think a lot of us whoare wired the way we are, because we
wanna do everything right, we go intothings focused on doing it right.
And even in meditation and mindfulness,which have a lot of emphasis on
(31:52):
noticing, we might be more focusedon the doing than the noticing.
And what you're talking aboutcelebrates the noticing.
Part of the win is just the noticing asopposed to doing the breathwork right,
and that's something I struggled with inmindfulness practice, and so it's a good
reminder that the success can just bein noticing, and that's where it starts.
(32:16):
I'll go a step past that.
The success isn't even like taking thebreaths and adding intention to it.
I always say, whether or not yourbrain does jumping jacks a second you
start the breathing pattern, or ifyou go into complete zen space, if
you fall asleep, if you cry, whatever.
Just showing up and stepping up tothat plate, that's the celebration.
The celebration startsthe second you start.
(32:38):
If you make it three breaths,we celebrate it at breath one.
That's it, you just haveto get there and try it.
And that's all I celebrate.
It's so easy to let the braingo a million different places.
And I always just tell people like,whatever your brain's doing, let it do it.
Just breathe right past it.
Just keep breathing.
The brain can do whatever.
If your brain raced today,you still did breathwork.
(32:59):
If your brain went black today,you still did breathwork.
And both believe it or not, are impactful.
Um, even in little bits, They're impactfuland that, and we have to let that count.
Breathwork can have almostan ecstatic feeling, almost
a like psychedelic feeling.
And that's something I love aboutbreathwork because you can reach that
ecstatic feeling, that psychedelic feelingwith, without actually ingesting anything.
(33:23):
So you do have the option atevery moment to be like, too
much, or I'm gonna pause here.
And that's not somethingthat's accessible.
You can't do that if you've ingestedsomething, you're along for the ride.
It's no longer up to you.
And I think there's something sopowerful, especially for those
of us with traumatic experiences.
There's something so powerful in each ofus being able to choose what we do and do
(33:49):
not participate in, and knowing that wehave that choice throughout the practice.
I think there's something so powerful inbeing able to say, "Enough for today."
There's something so powerful in decidingthat you can go a little further today.
Bringing that agency into thepractice is something that
I love seeing in my clients.
And that's something we talk a lot aboutat Breath Liberation Society, letting
(34:11):
people know that the session is for them.
That they don't have to perform for us.
They don't have to get to aspecific destination for us.
That we are really here as facilitatorsto hold the space while this person
goes through their own process.
And that they, the person, thebreather, gets to choose as
much or as little as they do.
And they can do so without judgment,and they can do so without questioning.
(34:34):
And that whatever they choose,they'll be cheered on fiercely.
I almost feel like it's just becauseit's so novel for most people that
when we go into yoga, like for example,like my athlete brain kicks in.
I have to do it, I have to pushthrough and do it strong, and even
when that's not the point of yoga.
My programming around my body andmovement is so strong, but breathwork
(35:00):
just feels like this sneaky side novel.
This hasn't been explored oract, I don't have any baggage.
I don't bring anything to it.
It's just a really cool brain trickI hadn't thought about any of that
before listening to you talk today.
But I'm like, no wonder I'm drawn to this.
I don't have any baggage around it.
Baggage around the mindfulnessstuff, but not specifically about the
(35:22):
breathwork element of body connection.
So for folks who are curious now tolearn more, where can they find you?
The name of my school is BreathLiberation Society, and we are
moving into a more hybrid model.
So for five years we've beenall virtual for good reason.
But now that it is slightly safer togather in person, we are hitting the road.
(35:44):
So I'm going to be offering somein-person breathwork trainings.
And then if you wanna keep going, if youwanna learn more about facilitation, there
will be a hybrid learning experience.
You can find me atbreathliberationsociety.com.
Otherwise, my name is Chauna witha C and I'm really easy to find.
Well, Chauna, I am just sucha huge fan of your work.
Even more so after hearing more today.
(36:07):
I look forward to a bunch ofThinkydoers in your experiences, and
I just really wanna thank you formaking the time to join me today
You're welcome.. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much to Chauna Bryantfor that incredible conversation.
If you're curious about Chauna'straining programs at Breath
(36:29):
Liberation Society, you can findher at breathliberationsociety.com.
She's also easy to find on Instagram.
Under her name, Chauna, with a C, Bryant.
You can always reach me atfindrc.co or on any social platform.
I'm pretty sure I'm still theonly Sara Lobkovich out there.
(36:50):
And if you haven't already,please subscribe to Thinkydoers
wherever you listen to podcastsand consider leaving us a review.
These conversations really matterand they reach more people when
you help share and amplify them.
My work in accessible useful strategy,goal setting and leadership development
with organizations and individualsis what makes this podcast possible.
(37:14):
So if you know someone who might benefitfrom that work or if you're interested
in collaboration opportunities, referralsare always welcome and deeply appreciated.
Thank you for listening,and I'll see you next time.
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