October 22, 2024 • 22 mins
Ever felt "off" but couldn't quite name it? Did it feel like you were "stuck?"
What if that feeling of being "stuck" is actually trying to tell you something important?
In this illuminating conversation with Dr. Sherlonda Adkins, a Physician Assistant and "Unstuck Strategist," we explore how feeling stuck can masquerade as depression, anxiety, or burnout - and why recognizing the difference matters. Whether you're questioning your career path or feeling stagnant in life, this episode offers vital insights into identifying and understanding stuckness before it impacts your wellbeing.
Then join us for part two with Dr. Adkins where we'll explore practical strategies for getting unstuck and creating positive change in your life.
Episode Highlights:
- The difference between clinical depression and feeling stuck
- Physical, emotional, and mental signs of stuckness
- How "sticky thinking" patterns keep us trapped
- Why career transitions and family dynamics are common stuck points
- The relationship between substance use and feeling stuck
- Why being stuck isn't always negative - it can signal important life changes
Common Questions:
- What are the signs of being stuck vs. depression?
- How does stuckness show up physically in our bodies?
- When should you seek professional help for feeling stuck?
- How can you tell if you're experiencing sticky thinking?
Notable Quotes:
"Sometimes people end up sitting on my couch saying 'I'm depressed,' thinking it's neurobiological changes, when in fact it's more secondary to their feeling stuck." - Dr. Adkins
"Suffering is different from going through tough times - suffering means you're not accessing available relief while going through difficulties." - Dr. Adkins
"Sometimes being stuck is jolting because you recognize there's a misalignment between your compass and your soul." - Dr. Adkins
About Today's Guest:
Dr. Sherlonda Adkins is a physician assistant and unstuck strategist based in Charleston, South Carolina. Through her telemedicine practice and coaching work, she helps people around the world create lives they don't need to escape from.
Resources Mentioned:
- Dr. Sherlonda Adkins Website: drsherlondaadkins.com
- Dr. Sherlonda Adkins on LinkedIn
Sara's Links and Resources
- Join this Fall's Goal Fridays free live series: https://findrc.co/goalfridays
- Join Sara's Email Newsletter: https://findrc.co/newsletter
- Email Sara at hello@redcurrantco.com
- Other Free No-BS OKRs Resources: Access all free resources
- Thinkydoers (not-just-an OKR podcast) Home Page: https://saralobkovich.com/thinkydoers-pod
Find full show notes and the episode transcript via https://findrc.co/thinkydoers !
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcastThinkydoers are those of us drawn to
deep work where thinking is working.
But we don't stop there.
We're compelled to move the work frominsight to idea, through the messy
middle, to find courage and confidenceto put our thoughts into action.
I'm Sara Lobkovich, and I'm a Thinkydoer.
(00:23):
I'm here to help others find moresatisfaction, less frustration, less
friction, and more flow in our work.
My mission is to help changemakers likeyou transform our workplaces and world.
So, let's get started.
All right, friends, we have anotherextra special treat with an amazing
(00:44):
subject matter expert joining us today.
Before we get into the episode with Dr.
Adkins, If you're listening to thiswhen it's coming out in October of 2024,
then I would love to invite you to joinme for my goal Fridays series That's
happening between now and November 15th.
(01:05):
Live on LinkedIn and YouTube.
And if you're listening to thislater, you can catch the replays.
And I'm also going to be doingsome live objectives and key
results audits and workshopping.
So if you are interested in getting alittle bit of feedback or participating
in one of those lives with me as anexample free coaching client, This is
(01:29):
a great chance to get some help withyour objectives and key results, For
the dish and to RSVP, you can go tosaralobkovich.com/goalfridays, and
I'll put that link in the show notes.
Now, I mentioned today's specialguest, we're continuing on the theme of
mental health with our next guest, Dr.
Sherlonda Adkins.
(01:50):
We're also continuing with the two partepisode thing, but I'm going to try
and get these two together back to backinstead of over the course of two weeks.
So, check back for the secondhalf of my conversation with Dr.
Adkins.
Dr.
Adkins shares her very classicallyThinkydoers career journey to
becoming a physician assistantand a strategist in unsticking.
(02:14):
In this first part, we'll dive deep intothe idea of being stuck, we'll explore
signs and symptoms of stuckness, Andwe're also going to talk about some
of the conditions that stuckness canmasquerade as, and really just get to
know some of the signs and symptomsof stuckness that we might be living
with when really we might not need to.
(02:36):
in our second part, we'regoing to talk about.
Actually getting unstuck.
But before that, let's meet Dr.
Adkins and get into the firstpart of our conversation.
Dr.
Adkins, I am so delighted to have you helpmy listeners learn a little bit more about
stuckness and mental health So before wedive in with my questions, though, I would
(02:58):
love to just have you introduce yourself.
Absolutely.
And thank you for allowing meto be here and keep doing the
amazing work that you're doing.
so let me just a short cliffnotes version of who I am.
I reside in Charleston, South Carolina.
I've always lived in SouthCarolina, and my journey is
one of the unstuck strategists.
(03:19):
It actually was born out ofreally just the life I live.
It's not just a brand;I am living proof of.
to be unstuck.
I left home, moved from the upstateto the low country to attend college.
Didn't know anyone there, didn't haveany friends going there because I
knew even at an early age that I justwanted to do something different to
break outside of my geographical space.
(03:40):
And I met my husbandduring my freshman year.
We got married, and we'reabout to hit year 27.
I majored in communications because Ihad no clue what I wanted to do, but
I figured whatever I ended up doing, Iwould need to be able to speak and write.
So I decided to major in communications.
(04:00):
I later went back and got my master'sin public administration because
I thought that I could save theworld, or at least contribute to
saving the world through working innonprofit or through public policy.
But by that time, we had our secondchild, and the cost of me moving from
being a stay-at-home mom to having twokids in daycare didn't justify me even
getting a job in the public sector, whichled me to feeling stuck at this point.
(04:24):
I'm like, I have two degrees,and just that whole crisis thing.
Meanwhile, some of my friendswere like, "You're lucky you get
to stay home with your kids."
And I'm like, I love my kids, butI need that social and intellectual
stimulation for my brain.
I've done a lot ofdifferent things in my life.
I've done everything from being amotivational speaker with monster.
com, I worked as a real estate salesagent, as well as a real estate investor.
(04:47):
I had my husband, I had ourown businesses in real estate.
I've worked as an instructorfor adult education, moved up
to program director, and then upto director of career services.
And then I would say my most prominentcareer move was when I decided to become a
PA.
And that came through just talkingto some friends and everybody just
(05:09):
brainstorming on, what I want to do.
What do we want to dowhen our kids get older?
And someone said, well, my husbandsaid, I should look at becoming a PA.
And I was like, "What's a PA?"
And I'm like, "Oh, I have one of those.
I have a PA."
So I started doing some research.
And one thing about me, and probablya lot of your listeners too, is when I
am interested in something, like I willhyper-focus and I will research the
mess out of it and find like everything.
(05:30):
Like I am really quick atbeing able to do a deep dive.
And so I did a deep dive on becominga PA, the daily life of a pa.
And what resonated with me aboutthe PA profession as opposed to
being a nurse practitioner or evengoing to medical school is that we
could make lateral changes withouthaving to stop and go back to school.
So if you're an MD, you specializein orthopedics, but if you decide you
(05:52):
wanna work in pediatrics, guess what?
You have to go back and do a residency.
But as a PA, you're trained as ageneralist, meaning that we're trained
for behavioral health, we're trained for,women's health, nephrology, pulmonology,
like all the systems of medicine.
And that appealed to me and my brainbecause I had a feeling that after working
in a particular specialty for a few years,I might want to switch, and I wanted
(06:14):
to have a career that would accommodatethat, which I knew about myself.
So I became a PA.
And while I was in PA school, Iwrote down some specific goals.
One of them was that I want to workpart-time hours with full-time pay.
Yes, I did go there.
And I also said that I didn't wantto work nights or weekends, and I
wanted to be close to home so that Icould be available for my kids because
(06:36):
by that time, we had three kids.
So I wrote these things down and alsosaid that when I got a little more
experience under my belt, I wanted tobe able to travel because I, had heard
one of my friends, whose husband wasa doctor, that they would do these
things called locum tenens so they couldgo and work in different locations.
Fast forward, I graduated fromPA school 10 years ago, and I was
blessed with the opportunity to havetwo part-time jobs, one in internal
(07:00):
medicine and one in psychiatry.
Neither one I found on Indeed or aZipRecruiter or anything, but it was
through just talking and being inthe right spaces and knowing people.
And I ended up decreasing my hours ininternal medicine as my psychiatric
patient load began to increase, and I alsolike the pace of that a little bit better.
I did miss with internal medicinethe holistic view of medicine
(07:22):
because psych is more specialized.
And as a psychiatric PA, I'm abit of a unicorn because less
than 2 percent of PAs in the U.
S.
work in psychiatry.
in 2019, because I love totravel, I was out of the country.
I went on five international trips,plus went to Hawaii because our
daughter was there doing one ofher rotations; she's a pharmacist.
And so I was out of the office a lot.
(07:43):
And as an independent contractor, whenI'm out of the office, I don't get paid.
And in addition to that, when I'm outof the office, my patients are like, "We
didn't want to see the other provider,but we wanted you, we just had to."
And believe me, I did work it out to whereit's okay, I'm going to be traveling, so
let's schedule these appointments out.
But sometimes things happen.
So I went to my supervising physician andI said, "I was thinking about something.
This is one area of medicine wherewe're not like touching patients.
(08:06):
We're not auscultating.
We're not palpating.
Can we look at maybe doing sometype of remote option so that when
I'm not here, I can still worklike an abbreviated schedule?"
And he said, "What do you mean?
Talk to patients on a video?"
I was like, yeah, that would never work.
This was 2019.
Okay.
This is before we found out a few monthslater we were going to be in a pandemic.
So I was like, Oh.
I was a little deflated with that.
(08:27):
And then I said, my brain startedgoing, I'm thinking, is there
a way that this can be done?
Because really, when my patientsmiss their appointments, they're
not missing because they're notwanting to continue with their care.
They're not wanting tobe on their medications.
They're missing for legitimate reasons.
Where we live at, if it rains formore than 15 minutes, it's probably
going to be a flood in downtown.
We have traffic.
I have college students who are away.
(08:48):
I have parents who can't get babysitters.
And then the stigma ofsitting in an office.
Charleston's not a huge place,so it wasn't uncommon for
people to sit in offices like,oh my god, that's my neighbor.
oh my god that's my coworker.
So there were reasonswhere people didn't come.
So I just started doing the research.
And as if I needed anything else to addto my plate, I was like, you know what?
I think I'm going tostart my own practice.
So in 2020, in January, Ilaunched South Carolina's first
(09:12):
PA on telemedicine practice.
And we're four years into that.
It was just a beautiful moment becauseI would love to say that I was so
smart and I was on the cutting edgestuff or whatever, but it's not.
It was a divine direction for me totake and I launched a practice, and then
we went into the pandemic and there weare, everybody's doing telemedicine now.
(09:33):
So in addition to telemedicine,I've always had a heart of a healer.
Even going back to elementary school,being on the playground, and someone
who's being picked on or it seemsisolated, I would go up like, "Hey,
you want to come be our friend?"
Like that type of thing.
And that has been a gift that's been apart of me all of my life, and then it's
been married with the additional skillset that I've gained and becoming a PA.
(09:55):
And with that, I havebeen able to do coaching.
So I helped people, but a lot of myclients are women around the world to get
unstuck and create lives they don't haveto escape, and unstuck could be anything.
It could be if they feel they'restuck in their thinking, like sticky
thinking it could be in relationships,dealing with their emotional health.
It could be geographically becausebelieve it or not, some people sometimes
feel geographically stuck and just howto put together a plan to expand life.
(10:19):
I try really hard to do it like atwo-minute introduction, so hard to
do it because I feel like there'sso much just in my story that can
speak to a wide variety of people.
I'm so delighted you didn't give us theshort version because I love hearing
other people's non-linear careers.
(10:39):
That was something I got a lot of crapfor —that I had a non-linear or a winding
career —but I think it takes that forus to find what we were born to do.
And so I hear that in your story too.
Good, that is that's wonderful.
And you answered the question becausemy question was going to be to you: Did
(11:01):
you ever question yourself or start tothink there's something wrong with me?
Because I went through that for years,because what was modeled was, you go
to college, you graduate, you get agood job and you stay at that job.
Or maybe you might switch one time.
But for me, it was like, I'm trying this,this fits for now, but it doesn't fit.
And so it was always like thatconstant pursuit and match.
(11:23):
And sometimes it's there for awhile, and then sometimes it shifts.
I was really beginning to think,is like legitimately, is there
something wrong with my brain?
Is there something inherently wrong withme, that I started telling myself this
narrative of, you don't stick with things.
You're okay, don't get too excitednow about it because you're
probably not going to stick with it.
(11:43):
And it took a lot of work, like a lot ofinner work and listening to the voices I
could trust, like those who really knowme and love me, in therapy as well to
say, oh no, honey, this is my superpower.
This business exists because Iwas out for a dog walk one day
and listening in on a work call.
And my brain said, instead ofsaying, what's wrong with me, my
(12:07):
brain said, what's wrong with thisenvironment that I am feeling this way?
And I was like, wait, what?
Can you speak a little louder?
That voice I want to hear more of becauseI've been hearing what's wrong with me
for my entire 30 years of my career.
When you say, I had that message ofwhat's wrong with me, that's my listeners,
(12:28):
they're us, they're the people whostruggle with those thoughts until they
find how to unstick themselves from it.
But Dr.
Adkins, tell me what a PA is and whatyour scope of practice is and what you do.
Okay.
So, Physician Assistant (12:44):
we are trained in the medical model.
Most of our programs are anywherebetween 27-30 months and it is rigorous
program that we go straightthrough with no breaks, so we are
trained on every body system, fromthe brain to skin to everything.
And so our curriculum consists ofdidactic portion where it's all in
(13:06):
the classroom and we're learning.
And then we have rotations where wego out and each of the specialties
and get hands-on experience.
So we work under the supervision of aphysician, and that varies state to state.
So some states have tighter laws,some states have looser laws.
And under the supervision doesn'tmean that the, physician has to
(13:28):
be actually even on premises, butit just means that we have someone
who's like responsible for us.
And I absolutely love thatbecause I love collaboration.
When I talk to students who areinterested in becoming PAs I always
mentioned to them, if you're somebodywho's like, "I want to be the head
person in charge all the time,"then, probably go to medical school.
But as far as like becoming a PA, somepeople find that's limiting in that sense.
(13:50):
But in the state in which I live,so I have a supervising physician
who is awesome by the way, butwe don't, he doesn't have to like
double-check behind me and see patients.
So I see patients on my own.
PAs are able to diagnose and formulatetreatment plans for patients autonomously.
You'll find them everywhere.
You have PAs in the operatingroom, you have PAs in pediatric
(14:13):
offices, so everywhere.
for me, it was the flexibility thatattracted me and the ability to combine
the science and my heart together.
But yeah, so I represent theprofession of PAs in the U.S.,
and it's also a profession that'sfound in other countries as well.
So we're going to talk about unsticking,because that's one of your superpowers.
(14:35):
What are some signs and symptoms of beingstuck that people might not recognize?
So, some of the ones that I wouldsay are probably the most common
first indicators that are easy tomiss if you're not in tune and like
aware of like feelings and what theycould mean would just be boredom.
Just feeling blah goingthroughout your day.
(14:57):
And then even just irritability, feelingangry, feeling sad, no motivation.
And as I'm naming these things, youmight be starting to think, that
kind of sounds like depression.
And sometimes people end up sitting onthe medical side, on my couch or my,
I had a physical couch or my virtualcouch and they're saying, I'm depressed.
(15:21):
And thinking that it's possibly relatedto some neurobiological changes that
are occurring when, in fact, it'smore secondary to their feeling stuck.
Oftentimes in their career—it’s notalways career—but I see that probably the
most, career and then family dynamics.
Two of the places that you just don'thave the ability to exit out of and stay
(15:43):
out, like most people have to work, andyou don't get to just quit your family.
We talk about like quiet quitting.
Sometimes we quiet quit, butyou can't quit them for real.
And those are like two of the keyareas that I see people showing
up, saying, I think I'm depressed.
And that's why it's good to ask a lotof questions in terms of history to
figure out (15:59):
if you're telling me you don't really have a family history of
depression, you've never really dealtwith this before, but you notice when
you relocated to Charleston that thelast year this is what's been happening.
So it's easy to point and say, you mightjust be feeling a little bit stuck.
So those are just some of theoverall indicators that people
may not realize they're stuck.
It's just feel bored, or I'mjust not content with life.
(16:22):
Like I, I do things that I usedto do, but it don't bring me joy.
Like, someone bought me ticketsto a concert, and everybody
knows I love Elton John.
I got tickets to Elton John's concert,but the whole time I was there, I was
just thinking, oh my God, when this isover, I just want to go back in my bed.
That's an indication.
And then moving on to like moreof the mentality and thinking.
So we mentioned earlier, talkingabout sticky thinking is when
(16:44):
you find yourself having the samedialogue over and over, the same
narratives that you tell yourself.
Sometimes people will start to builda life around the sticky thinking.
So, if I think that people are alwaysgoing to talk about me and say things
negative, or people are going tothink that I think I'm more than what
I am, then maybe I'm going to startlimiting how much I interact with
(17:05):
people in a social environment, becauseI don't want them thinking that.
Who told who?
Where is the evidence?
There's some type of evidence thatwe have created in our own minds that
leads us to the sticky thinking, andit can, like, just—keep you stuck.
So, really paying attention to thinkingcan oftentimes bring out okay, I'm stuck.
(17:25):
Then we haven't mentionedthe physical body.
Sometimes feeling stuck, some of thosephysical symptoms—we have issues with
sleep, sometimes not being able tosleep, or difficulty falling asleep
because your mind is still replayingthings, projecting into the future.
Or it's okay, you can go to sleep,it's fine, but then you wake up in
(17:46):
the middle of the night and you'rethinking, your brain's going.
On the other end, sometimes people willoversleep, and not necessarily because
they're tired, but you could get 12, 14hours of sleep and still just feel tired.
Increase in substance use—not noteven just, sometimes people think
more like illegal drugs, but caffeine.
(18:07):
Anything that alters your brain chemistryis considered like a drug for my purposes.
And alcohol—finding that you're needingmore alcohol to wind down at night
or you needing coffee to boost you.
Those are some of the physical symptoms.
And then really justchecking in with your body.
I like to give this example (18:22):
if you are driving down the road and all of
a sudden you look in your rearview andpolice lights coming up behind you and
they're flashing, most people will havesome type of physiological response.
I don't think I've really met anybodywho's like, oh, I'm just chill.
Usually, some things willhappen—your heart rate increases,
you might start sweating, breathinggets shallow and more rapid.
(18:44):
So with sticky thinking and beingstuck, sometimes people experience
those physical symptoms as well.
If it's the case, mentioned emotions,and then you have the mental thinking,
and then you have the physical—ifall three of those are combined,
you're in a pretty tough place.
And I would say if anyone listening tothis say, I think I'm experienced like
(19:06):
a little bit of all of those, I woulddefinitely encourage you to seek some
professional help with that becauseit means that you are struggling.
We're all going to go through toughtimes, but there's a difference
between going through tough andpainful times and then suffering.
Because suffering is like, youhave an opportunity, there's some
relief for it to help you whileyou go through the difficulties.
(19:27):
But for the most part, I thinkwe ebb and flow a little bit.
I don't necessarily think that beingstuck is always a bad thing because
sometimes being stuck, at least in mylife, and I've seen it in the lives
of my patients, and my clients, andmy friends and family, is that it's
jolting once you realize that you'restuck and you're like, "Oh," because you
recognize that there's a misalignment.
(19:48):
between your compass and your soul—whereyou're supposed to be going and where
you are at the external environment.
Those are just briefly someof the signs and symptoms of
what it looks like being stuck.
And because we aren't that good atlooking at ourselves, sometimes we
(20:08):
don't even know that we're stuck untilwe have someone pointed out to us.
Sometimes it's the people who areclosest to us who can recognize
and say, "I noticed that yourgarden looks bad out there.
You used to take pride in that.
You posted pictures on socialmedia of your garden, and your
garden is not gardening anymore."
There's two posturesyou can take with that.
If you're open to receiving likeconstructive criticism, you can go, "Gosh,
(20:30):
I didn't notice thanks for telling me."
But sometimes if we already havethat awareness and we're already
self-conscious about it, and somebodypoints it out, it can lead to feeling
like a little defensive, and thenyou want to protect it even more.
But yeah, so having at least one ortwo people who can tell you things in
love, and not out of judgment or to makeyou feel bad, to point things out, can
(20:52):
be extremely valuable in helping youidentify your stuckness and the areas
in which you feel stuck, because youcan be stuck in multiple areas of life.
Alright, thank you so muchfor joining us on this episode
of the Thinkydoers podcast.
As always, links to the resources thatwe talked about are in the show notes.
(21:14):
You can find those atfindrc.co/thinkydoers.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleasesubscribe, rate, leave a review
on your favorite podcast platform.
It really does help usbe seen by more people.
And then don't forget to comeback for our next episode where we
continue this conversation with Dr.
Adkins, where we'll dive intopractical advice for seeking
(21:38):
help and getting unstuck.
So until then, take care, andI'll see you back here soon.
Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcastThinkydoers are those of us drawn to
deep work where thinking is working.
But we don't stop there.
We're compelled to move the work frominsight to idea, through the messy
middle, to find courage and confidenceto put our thoughts into action.
I'm Sara Lobkovich, and I'm a Thinkydoer.
(00:23):
I'm here to help others find moresatisfaction, less frustration, less
friction, and more flow in our work.
My mission is to help changemakers likeyou transform our workplaces and world.
So, let's get started.
All right, friends, we have anotherextra special treat with an amazing
(00:44):
subject matter expert joining us today.
Before we get into the episode with Dr.
Adkins, If you're listening to thiswhen it's coming out in October of 2024,
then I would love to invite you to joinme for my goal Fridays series That's
happening between now and November 15th.
(01:05):
Live on LinkedIn and YouTube.
And if you're listening to thislater, you can catch the replays.
And I'm also going to be doingsome live objectives and key
results audits and workshopping.
So if you are interested in getting alittle bit of feedback or participating
in one of those lives with me as anexample free coaching client, This is
(01:29):
a great chance to get some help withyour objectives and key results, For
the dish and to RSVP, you can go tosaralobkovich.com/goalfridays, and
I'll put that link in the show notes.
Now, I mentioned today's specialguest, we're continuing on the theme of
mental health with our next guest, Dr.
Sherlonda Adkins.
(01:50):
We're also continuing with the two partepisode thing, but I'm going to try
and get these two together back to backinstead of over the course of two weeks.
So, check back for the secondhalf of my conversation with Dr.
Adkins.
Dr.
Adkins shares her very classicallyThinkydoers career journey to
becoming a physician assistantand a strategist in unsticking.
(02:14):
In this first part, we'll dive deep intothe idea of being stuck, we'll explore
signs and symptoms of stuckness, Andwe're also going to talk about some
of the conditions that stuckness canmasquerade as, and really just get to
know some of the signs and symptomsof stuckness that we might be living
with when really we might not need to.
(02:36):
in our second part, we'regoing to talk about.
Actually getting unstuck.
But before that, let's meet Dr.
Adkins and get into the firstpart of our conversation.
Dr.
Adkins, I am so delighted to have you helpmy listeners learn a little bit more about
stuckness and mental health So before wedive in with my questions, though, I would
(02:58):
love to just have you introduce yourself.
Absolutely.
And thank you for allowing meto be here and keep doing the
amazing work that you're doing.
so let me just a short cliffnotes version of who I am.
I reside in Charleston, South Carolina.
I've always lived in SouthCarolina, and my journey is
one of the unstuck strategists.
(03:19):
It actually was born out ofreally just the life I live.
It's not just a brand;I am living proof of.
to be unstuck.
I left home, moved from the upstateto the low country to attend college.
Didn't know anyone there, didn't haveany friends going there because I
knew even at an early age that I justwanted to do something different to
break outside of my geographical space.
(03:40):
And I met my husbandduring my freshman year.
We got married, and we'reabout to hit year 27.
I majored in communications because Ihad no clue what I wanted to do, but
I figured whatever I ended up doing, Iwould need to be able to speak and write.
So I decided to major in communications.
(04:00):
I later went back and got my master'sin public administration because
I thought that I could save theworld, or at least contribute to
saving the world through working innonprofit or through public policy.
But by that time, we had our secondchild, and the cost of me moving from
being a stay-at-home mom to having twokids in daycare didn't justify me even
getting a job in the public sector, whichled me to feeling stuck at this point.
(04:24):
I'm like, I have two degrees,and just that whole crisis thing.
Meanwhile, some of my friendswere like, "You're lucky you get
to stay home with your kids."
And I'm like, I love my kids, butI need that social and intellectual
stimulation for my brain.
I've done a lot ofdifferent things in my life.
I've done everything from being amotivational speaker with monster.
com, I worked as a real estate salesagent, as well as a real estate investor.
(04:47):
I had my husband, I had ourown businesses in real estate.
I've worked as an instructorfor adult education, moved up
to program director, and then upto director of career services.
And then I would say my most prominentcareer move was when I decided to become a
PA.
And that came through just talkingto some friends and everybody just
(05:09):
brainstorming on, what I want to do.
What do we want to dowhen our kids get older?
And someone said, well, my husbandsaid, I should look at becoming a PA.
And I was like, "What's a PA?"
And I'm like, "Oh, I have one of those.
I have a PA."
So I started doing some research.
And one thing about me, and probablya lot of your listeners too, is when I
am interested in something, like I willhyper-focus and I will research the
mess out of it and find like everything.
(05:30):
Like I am really quick atbeing able to do a deep dive.
And so I did a deep dive on becominga PA, the daily life of a pa.
And what resonated with me aboutthe PA profession as opposed to
being a nurse practitioner or evengoing to medical school is that we
could make lateral changes withouthaving to stop and go back to school.
So if you're an MD, you specializein orthopedics, but if you decide you
(05:52):
wanna work in pediatrics, guess what?
You have to go back and do a residency.
But as a PA, you're trained as ageneralist, meaning that we're trained
for behavioral health, we're trained for,women's health, nephrology, pulmonology,
like all the systems of medicine.
And that appealed to me and my brainbecause I had a feeling that after working
in a particular specialty for a few years,I might want to switch, and I wanted
(06:14):
to have a career that would accommodatethat, which I knew about myself.
So I became a PA.
And while I was in PA school, Iwrote down some specific goals.
One of them was that I want to workpart-time hours with full-time pay.
Yes, I did go there.
And I also said that I didn't wantto work nights or weekends, and I
wanted to be close to home so that Icould be available for my kids because
(06:36):
by that time, we had three kids.
So I wrote these things down and alsosaid that when I got a little more
experience under my belt, I wanted tobe able to travel because I, had heard
one of my friends, whose husband wasa doctor, that they would do these
things called locum tenens so they couldgo and work in different locations.
Fast forward, I graduated fromPA school 10 years ago, and I was
blessed with the opportunity to havetwo part-time jobs, one in internal
(07:00):
medicine and one in psychiatry.
Neither one I found on Indeed or aZipRecruiter or anything, but it was
through just talking and being inthe right spaces and knowing people.
And I ended up decreasing my hours ininternal medicine as my psychiatric
patient load began to increase, and I alsolike the pace of that a little bit better.
I did miss with internal medicinethe holistic view of medicine
(07:22):
because psych is more specialized.
And as a psychiatric PA, I'm abit of a unicorn because less
than 2 percent of PAs in the U.
S.
work in psychiatry.
in 2019, because I love totravel, I was out of the country.
I went on five international trips,plus went to Hawaii because our
daughter was there doing one ofher rotations; she's a pharmacist.
And so I was out of the office a lot.
(07:43):
And as an independent contractor, whenI'm out of the office, I don't get paid.
And in addition to that, when I'm outof the office, my patients are like, "We
didn't want to see the other provider,but we wanted you, we just had to."
And believe me, I did work it out to whereit's okay, I'm going to be traveling, so
let's schedule these appointments out.
But sometimes things happen.
So I went to my supervising physician andI said, "I was thinking about something.
This is one area of medicine wherewe're not like touching patients.
(08:06):
We're not auscultating.
We're not palpating.
Can we look at maybe doing sometype of remote option so that when
I'm not here, I can still worklike an abbreviated schedule?"
And he said, "What do you mean?
Talk to patients on a video?"
I was like, yeah, that would never work.
This was 2019.
Okay.
This is before we found out a few monthslater we were going to be in a pandemic.
So I was like, Oh.
I was a little deflated with that.
(08:27):
And then I said, my brain startedgoing, I'm thinking, is there
a way that this can be done?
Because really, when my patientsmiss their appointments, they're
not missing because they're notwanting to continue with their care.
They're not wanting tobe on their medications.
They're missing for legitimate reasons.
Where we live at, if it rains formore than 15 minutes, it's probably
going to be a flood in downtown.
We have traffic.
I have college students who are away.
(08:48):
I have parents who can't get babysitters.
And then the stigma ofsitting in an office.
Charleston's not a huge place,so it wasn't uncommon for
people to sit in offices like,oh my god, that's my neighbor.
oh my god that's my coworker.
So there were reasonswhere people didn't come.
So I just started doing the research.
And as if I needed anything else to addto my plate, I was like, you know what?
I think I'm going tostart my own practice.
So in 2020, in January, Ilaunched South Carolina's first
(09:12):
PA on telemedicine practice.
And we're four years into that.
It was just a beautiful moment becauseI would love to say that I was so
smart and I was on the cutting edgestuff or whatever, but it's not.
It was a divine direction for me totake and I launched a practice, and then
we went into the pandemic and there weare, everybody's doing telemedicine now.
(09:33):
So in addition to telemedicine,I've always had a heart of a healer.
Even going back to elementary school,being on the playground, and someone
who's being picked on or it seemsisolated, I would go up like, "Hey,
you want to come be our friend?"
Like that type of thing.
And that has been a gift that's been apart of me all of my life, and then it's
been married with the additional skillset that I've gained and becoming a PA.
(09:55):
And with that, I havebeen able to do coaching.
So I helped people, but a lot of myclients are women around the world to get
unstuck and create lives they don't haveto escape, and unstuck could be anything.
It could be if they feel they'restuck in their thinking, like sticky
thinking it could be in relationships,dealing with their emotional health.
It could be geographically becausebelieve it or not, some people sometimes
feel geographically stuck and just howto put together a plan to expand life.
(10:19):
I try really hard to do it like atwo-minute introduction, so hard to
do it because I feel like there'sso much just in my story that can
speak to a wide variety of people.
I'm so delighted you didn't give us theshort version because I love hearing
other people's non-linear careers.
(10:39):
That was something I got a lot of crapfor —that I had a non-linear or a winding
career —but I think it takes that forus to find what we were born to do.
And so I hear that in your story too.
Good, that is that's wonderful.
And you answered the question becausemy question was going to be to you: Did
(11:01):
you ever question yourself or start tothink there's something wrong with me?
Because I went through that for years,because what was modeled was, you go
to college, you graduate, you get agood job and you stay at that job.
Or maybe you might switch one time.
But for me, it was like, I'm trying this,this fits for now, but it doesn't fit.
And so it was always like thatconstant pursuit and match.
(11:23):
And sometimes it's there for awhile, and then sometimes it shifts.
I was really beginning to think,is like legitimately, is there
something wrong with my brain?
Is there something inherently wrong withme, that I started telling myself this
narrative of, you don't stick with things.
You're okay, don't get too excitednow about it because you're
probably not going to stick with it.
(11:43):
And it took a lot of work, like a lot ofinner work and listening to the voices I
could trust, like those who really knowme and love me, in therapy as well to
say, oh no, honey, this is my superpower.
This business exists because Iwas out for a dog walk one day
and listening in on a work call.
And my brain said, instead ofsaying, what's wrong with me, my
(12:07):
brain said, what's wrong with thisenvironment that I am feeling this way?
And I was like, wait, what?
Can you speak a little louder?
That voice I want to hear more of becauseI've been hearing what's wrong with me
for my entire 30 years of my career.
When you say, I had that message ofwhat's wrong with me, that's my listeners,
(12:28):
they're us, they're the people whostruggle with those thoughts until they
find how to unstick themselves from it.
But Dr.
Adkins, tell me what a PA is and whatyour scope of practice is and what you do.
Okay.
So, Physician Assistant (12:44):
we are trained in the medical model.
Most of our programs are anywherebetween 27-30 months and it is rigorous
program that we go straightthrough with no breaks, so we are
trained on every body system, fromthe brain to skin to everything.
And so our curriculum consists ofdidactic portion where it's all in
(13:06):
the classroom and we're learning.
And then we have rotations where wego out and each of the specialties
and get hands-on experience.
So we work under the supervision of aphysician, and that varies state to state.
So some states have tighter laws,some states have looser laws.
And under the supervision doesn'tmean that the, physician has to
(13:28):
be actually even on premises, butit just means that we have someone
who's like responsible for us.
And I absolutely love thatbecause I love collaboration.
When I talk to students who areinterested in becoming PAs I always
mentioned to them, if you're somebodywho's like, "I want to be the head
person in charge all the time,"then, probably go to medical school.
But as far as like becoming a PA, somepeople find that's limiting in that sense.
(13:50):
But in the state in which I live,so I have a supervising physician
who is awesome by the way, butwe don't, he doesn't have to like
double-check behind me and see patients.
So I see patients on my own.
PAs are able to diagnose and formulatetreatment plans for patients autonomously.
You'll find them everywhere.
You have PAs in the operatingroom, you have PAs in pediatric
(14:13):
offices, so everywhere.
for me, it was the flexibility thatattracted me and the ability to combine
the science and my heart together.
But yeah, so I represent theprofession of PAs in the U.S.,
and it's also a profession that'sfound in other countries as well.
So we're going to talk about unsticking,because that's one of your superpowers.
(14:35):
What are some signs and symptoms of beingstuck that people might not recognize?
So, some of the ones that I wouldsay are probably the most common
first indicators that are easy tomiss if you're not in tune and like
aware of like feelings and what theycould mean would just be boredom.
Just feeling blah goingthroughout your day.
(14:57):
And then even just irritability, feelingangry, feeling sad, no motivation.
And as I'm naming these things, youmight be starting to think, that
kind of sounds like depression.
And sometimes people end up sitting onthe medical side, on my couch or my,
I had a physical couch or my virtualcouch and they're saying, I'm depressed.
(15:21):
And thinking that it's possibly relatedto some neurobiological changes that
are occurring when, in fact, it'smore secondary to their feeling stuck.
Oftentimes in their career—it’s notalways career—but I see that probably the
most, career and then family dynamics.
Two of the places that you just don'thave the ability to exit out of and stay
(15:43):
out, like most people have to work, andyou don't get to just quit your family.
We talk about like quiet quitting.
Sometimes we quiet quit, butyou can't quit them for real.
And those are like two of the keyareas that I see people showing
up, saying, I think I'm depressed.
And that's why it's good to ask a lotof questions in terms of history to
figure out (15:59):
if you're telling me you don't really have a family history of
depression, you've never really dealtwith this before, but you notice when
you relocated to Charleston that thelast year this is what's been happening.
So it's easy to point and say, you mightjust be feeling a little bit stuck.
So those are just some of theoverall indicators that people
may not realize they're stuck.
It's just feel bored, or I'mjust not content with life.
(16:22):
Like I, I do things that I usedto do, but it don't bring me joy.
Like, someone bought me ticketsto a concert, and everybody
knows I love Elton John.
I got tickets to Elton John's concert,but the whole time I was there, I was
just thinking, oh my God, when this isover, I just want to go back in my bed.
That's an indication.
And then moving on to like moreof the mentality and thinking.
So we mentioned earlier, talkingabout sticky thinking is when
(16:44):
you find yourself having the samedialogue over and over, the same
narratives that you tell yourself.
Sometimes people will start to builda life around the sticky thinking.
So, if I think that people are alwaysgoing to talk about me and say things
negative, or people are going tothink that I think I'm more than what
I am, then maybe I'm going to startlimiting how much I interact with
(17:05):
people in a social environment, becauseI don't want them thinking that.
Who told who?
Where is the evidence?
There's some type of evidence thatwe have created in our own minds that
leads us to the sticky thinking, andit can, like, just—keep you stuck.
So, really paying attention to thinkingcan oftentimes bring out okay, I'm stuck.
(17:25):
Then we haven't mentionedthe physical body.
Sometimes feeling stuck, some of thosephysical symptoms—we have issues with
sleep, sometimes not being able tosleep, or difficulty falling asleep
because your mind is still replayingthings, projecting into the future.
Or it's okay, you can go to sleep,it's fine, but then you wake up in
(17:46):
the middle of the night and you'rethinking, your brain's going.
On the other end, sometimes people willoversleep, and not necessarily because
they're tired, but you could get 12, 14hours of sleep and still just feel tired.
Increase in substance use—not noteven just, sometimes people think
more like illegal drugs, but caffeine.
(18:07):
Anything that alters your brain chemistryis considered like a drug for my purposes.
And alcohol—finding that you're needingmore alcohol to wind down at night
or you needing coffee to boost you.
Those are some of the physical symptoms.
And then really justchecking in with your body.
I like to give this example (18:22):
if you are driving down the road and all of
a sudden you look in your rearview andpolice lights coming up behind you and
they're flashing, most people will havesome type of physiological response.
I don't think I've really met anybodywho's like, oh, I'm just chill.
Usually, some things willhappen—your heart rate increases,
you might start sweating, breathinggets shallow and more rapid.
(18:44):
So with sticky thinking and beingstuck, sometimes people experience
those physical symptoms as well.
If it's the case, mentioned emotions,and then you have the mental thinking,
and then you have the physical—ifall three of those are combined,
you're in a pretty tough place.
And I would say if anyone listening tothis say, I think I'm experienced like
(19:06):
a little bit of all of those, I woulddefinitely encourage you to seek some
professional help with that becauseit means that you are struggling.
We're all going to go through toughtimes, but there's a difference
between going through tough andpainful times and then suffering.
Because suffering is like, youhave an opportunity, there's some
relief for it to help you whileyou go through the difficulties.
(19:27):
But for the most part, I thinkwe ebb and flow a little bit.
I don't necessarily think that beingstuck is always a bad thing because
sometimes being stuck, at least in mylife, and I've seen it in the lives
of my patients, and my clients, andmy friends and family, is that it's
jolting once you realize that you'restuck and you're like, "Oh," because you
recognize that there's a misalignment.
(19:48):
between your compass and your soul—whereyou're supposed to be going and where
you are at the external environment.
Those are just briefly someof the signs and symptoms of
what it looks like being stuck.
And because we aren't that good atlooking at ourselves, sometimes we
(20:08):
don't even know that we're stuck untilwe have someone pointed out to us.
Sometimes it's the people who areclosest to us who can recognize
and say, "I noticed that yourgarden looks bad out there.
You used to take pride in that.
You posted pictures on socialmedia of your garden, and your
garden is not gardening anymore."
There's two posturesyou can take with that.
If you're open to receiving likeconstructive criticism, you can go, "Gosh,
(20:30):
I didn't notice thanks for telling me."
But sometimes if we already havethat awareness and we're already
self-conscious about it, and somebodypoints it out, it can lead to feeling
like a little defensive, and thenyou want to protect it even more.
But yeah, so having at least one ortwo people who can tell you things in
love, and not out of judgment or to makeyou feel bad, to point things out, can
(20:52):
be extremely valuable in helping youidentify your stuckness and the areas
in which you feel stuck, because youcan be stuck in multiple areas of life.
Alright, thank you so muchfor joining us on this episode
of the Thinkydoers podcast.
As always, links to the resources thatwe talked about are in the show notes.
(21:14):
You can find those atfindrc.co/thinkydoers.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleasesubscribe, rate, leave a review
on your favorite podcast platform.
It really does help usbe seen by more people.
And then don't forget to comeback for our next episode where we
continue this conversation with Dr.
Adkins, where we'll dive intopractical advice for seeking
(21:38):
help and getting unstuck.
So until then, take care, andI'll see you back here soon.
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