Mindfulness for Overthinkers and Perfectionists with Dr. Alice Rizzi

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast.
Thinkydoers are those of us drawn todeep work where thinking is working.
But we don't stop there.
We're compelled to move the work frominsight to idea, through the messy
middle, to find courage and confidenceto put our thoughts into action.
I'm Sara Lobkovich, and I'm a Thinkydoer.

(00:23):
I'm here to help others find moresatisfaction, less frustration, less
friction, and more flow in our work.
My mission is to help changemakers likeyou transform our workplaces and world.
So, let's get started.
Welcome back, friends.
We're continuing this week on thetheme of mental health support, but

(00:47):
today we're going back to basics.
This episode was intended as abit of a "mindfulness basics"
episode, but don't hit skip whenyou hear the word mindfulness.
My guest is here to share informationand practices specifically for
those of us who might have struggledwith mindfulness practices, or even

(01:07):
mindfulness instruction in the past.
We don't just talk about meditation here.
And I have to say this was intended asa basics episode, but I think there's
something here for everyone, includingthose of you listening who already
have a solid mindfulness practice.
Before I introduce our guestfor today, a quick note.

(01:27):
I'm hosting an eight-weekseries of free Friday morning
sessions I call "Goal Fridays."
This series is at 9am Pacific,noon Eastern, and you can join
live on YouTube or LinkedIn.
Although, to be honest, LinkedIn'sa bit more buggy, so YouTube's
a bit more of a sure thing.
Each session is on a specific topic.

(01:49):
We started with a practice forrefocusing when you're overthinking.
Next up, we're going to tackle overdoing.
And then from there, we dive intosome special topics around Objectives
and Key Results, or OKRs, the goalmethodology I work with closely.
You'll even get to see somelive OKR audits, and I am

(02:10):
looking for volunteers for that.
So, if you work with OKRs today and youwant some help improving them, ping me
if you might be interested in joining.
Whether you're looking to reduceoverthinking, avoid burnout, learn about
different goal-setting frameworks, orsee real-world case studies, there's
something for everyone in this series.

(02:31):
To sign up, visit findrc.co/goalfridays.
And yes, replays are available.
Visit that same page forlinks to the replays.
And to join the waitlist for mynext cohort if you miss this one.
Now, I am delighted to welcome Dr.
Alice Rizzi, a licensed psychologist andmindfulness coach, as our expert today.

(02:55):
Dr.
Rizzi shares practices for high achievers,perfectionists, and overthinkers to create
some calm and balance in our hectic lives.
She'll also debunk a few commonmisconceptions about mindfulness and
offer strategies that work for real peoplewith real commitments and busy lives.
In this episode, we'll cover whymindfulness isn't just about meditation,

(03:19):
some practical techniques for groundingyourself in stressful moments, how to
start a mindfulness practice when you'reshort on time, and a few tips especially
for the recovering perfectionists andoverthinkers who might be listening.
Dr.
Rizzi also shares her personal journeyfrom being an anxious ball to finding
balance through mindfulness practices.

(03:41):
Her insights are especially valuablefor those of us who might have
struggled with traditional meditationor who might feel too overwhelmed to
try to start a mindfulness practice.
So let's get our conversation started.
I am very excited to have Dr.
Alice Rizzi here with me today.
Alice, go ahead and give usa quick introduction, and

(04:03):
then we'll go from there.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
I'm Alice Rizzi.
I'm a licensed psychologist in NewYork, a telehealth provider in Florida,
and a mindfulness coach everywhere.
I create mindfulness courses, I teachpeople how to meditate, and I use a
lot of the tools that I learned in mypsychology doctorate program to just

(04:25):
help people live more easeful, lessstressful, less overwhelming, less
burned-out kind of lives, so that you canactually enjoy some of this experience.
this is, I think, the third weekin a row where we're starting an
episode by saying don't leave whenyou hear the word mindfulness.
This is not, we're not going tobe talking about sitting still
and being quiet necessarily.

(04:47):
This is accessible mindfulness.
So, we're building those toolsfor people who might've struggled
with mindfulness in the past.
So don't go anywhere.
Stick around.
I'm so excited to clear up someof the misconceptions that people
might still have about mindfulness,
That's exactly where I wanted to start.
What does mindfulness mean to you?

(05:08):
So, I have my own definition ofmindfulness that's come about from
doing a lot of research on it, frompracticing it, reading books on it.
And so, basically the way that I defineit is that mindfulness is the quality
of being present in this moment with,awareness, acceptance, kindness,
compassion, curiosity, and non-judgment.

(05:30):
So, that's a lot, especiallyif you are new to this.
So don't feel like you have toremember all of it—you don't.
Those are just all the factorsthat I found to be present
when you are practicing.
So, the more you practice, the moreaware you're going to be, the more kind
and compassionate you're going to be.
When you practice, we askthat you practice with

(05:52):
non-judgment, with curiosity.
So these are things that come upnaturally, they're not necessarily
things you need to think about doing.
I am now in love with that sequenceof words because it also perfectly
describes the mindset that folksbenefit from when using the type
of goal-setting that I work with.

(06:13):
I keep finding new elements ofthe goal-setting practices I work
with, but I had not thought of itas a mindful goal-setting practice.
And I'm like, wow, that's actuallythe same sequence of words.
That's really cool.
Sounds like that's exactly what it is.
It sounds like you teach folks toset goals in a mindful way, which is
actually a lot of what I do as well.
And I talk about values a lot andmaking sure that people are setting

(06:35):
values-based goals rather thanemotion-based or fear-driven ones.
So cool.
That just gave me goosebumps.
I just love to hear you talk a littlebit about what was your journey?
Where did you start in mindfulness, andthen how have you gotten to where you are?
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so I'm going to try to touchon all of those points, and we

(06:56):
can always go back if we need to.
But this idea of mindfulness versusmeditation is something that I talk a
lot about because you can do mindfulnesspractices and you can live a mindful
life without necessarily sitting stilland just paying attention to the breath.
That is one type of a meditationpractice, and there's hundreds,

(07:16):
if not thousands, of other ones.
So mindfulness meditation is alsodifferent from other forms of meditation.
Again, one form of it could besitting still with your eyes closed,
paying attention to the breath.
But that's just one practice—it doesn'tencapsulate all mindfulness meditation and
definitely not all meditative practices.

(07:39):
Right there you're challenging—there'snot even aside from there being no
one way to practice mindfulness.
There's not even no oneway to practice meditation.
There are a host ofpractices to experiment with.
So if you're someone who has struggledwith finding a mindfulness or even
meditation practice that's worked for you,this is a encouragement to keep trying.

(08:00):
Yeah.
And we'll talk about different typesof practices as well, but I guess just
to give people an idea now, like youcan do like a meditative mindfulness
practice that is around walking, eating,touching an object, smelling something.
There's so many different ways to use yoursenses, especially in order to be mindful.

(08:20):
That can be like a formal mindfulnesspractice that can have meditative
qualities, but it's different from howfolks typically picture like meditation,
like where you're sitting with your legscrossed, closed eyes like this, like it
really doesn't have to look like that.
It can look like doing the dishesin a mindful way, and that could

(08:42):
be your practice for today.
It could be foldingyour laundry mindfully.
And when I say that, using thosefactors, like you're doing it with
awareness, with acceptance, inessence, you're being intentional
about whatever it is that you're doing.
That's what helps you be present.
That is a mindfulness practiceand all a mindfulness meditation

(09:05):
is a designated time that youchoose to practice being mindful.
So I can choose to sit on thecouch for five minutes, breathing
mindfully, or I can choose to takea five minute mindful walk outside
where I pay attention to my senses.
Both are still mindfulness.
Both are still valid practices.

(09:26):
You touched on there are lots ofdifferent ways to mindfulness.
You're familiar with my listeners.
So we tend, we skew introverted,not introverted, but we
definitely skew introverted here.
Lots of folks who are neurodivergent,lots of folks who might feel like they're
just wired differently are my listeners.

(09:48):
So tell me a little bit aboutmindfulness for folks like
that who might be listening.
Yeah, let me back up just a littlebit because I do want to answer
your question about my particularjourney with mindfulness meditation,
because I think that will be helpful.
So I was first introduced tomindfulness as a concept in undergrad.

(10:09):
I was about 20 years old.
And it just sounded really interestingbecause I was introduced to it
through the more like traditionalway of describing it, like where
you can achieve inner peace.
And that sounded really appealing to me.
In school, I was commuting a lot.
There's family drama, relationshipdrama, all the things that
a 20-year-old goes through.

(10:30):
And so this idea that this one conceptor a principle or practice can help me
achieve inner peace, I was like, oh, cool.
Let's see what it's about.
So I started doing more research on it.
And I ended up picking my psychologydoctoral program specifically because
they had a mindfulness research team.
So that started my formaljourney into mindfulness.

(10:53):
And as part of this research team,we met once a week, and we would
start every meeting with a 5, 10,15-minute mindfulness practice.
And so that's also one placewhere I learned different
ways to practice mindfulness.
Now, the person who was facilitatingthe team, it was the professor.
She also ended up being mydissertation chair, the person that

(11:16):
supervised my dissertation projectover the course of four years.
And so I ended up doing my dissertationon mindfulness and on meditation.
So I dove even deeper into the research.
But the reason I mentioned thisis because the person that was
supervising me was very insistentthat I had to experience like true

(11:37):
mindfulness meditation for myself.
And so what that meant is that notonly was I practicing it daily, I
needed to have like my own meditationpractice, but I also had to attend a
mindfulness-based stress reduction course.
So that's an eight-week course where it'slike a two, two and a half-hour group
that you attend to weekly for two months.

(11:57):
And you do these formal, like 45-minute,15-minute meditative practices, which I
will say even back then was super boring.
And to be honest, I still findboring now most of the time.
I am not the type of person who wouldchoose to sit still for 45 minutes.
And what helped me get so attachedin a healthy, fun way to mindfulness

(12:21):
is that I didn't have to do that.
I didn't have to sit still for 45 minutes.
I started my daily practices likewalking to and from class and like
noticing what I could see around me.
There would be a grassy hill, andI would sit on the hill and I would
close my eyes for a few moments andtake a few deep breaths or listen to
the birds chirping or watch peoplewalk by and just notice what I notice.

(12:44):
And I would literally take 30seconds, two minutes, five minutes.
And then I would go on with the day,and I started feeling more at peace and
things started feeling a little easier.
And I started approachingthings with a little bit less
urgency, a little bit more space.

(13:04):
And so that's when I started realizingthat even taking just that 30 seconds
or those three deep breaths mademe feel a lot better, and made me
start approaching other things in mylife with that intentional present
quality that we were talking about.
So I was becoming kinder, lessjudgmental, more compassionate, and it's

(13:29):
all because I was taking those briefmoments of mindfulness any way I could
I'm glad you brought up mindfulness-basedstress reduction and partly because a
lot of folks who wrestle with some ofthe things my listeners do might've
had chronic stress and been told tomeditate or, if at worst, might've

(13:51):
been told, "Start meditating," andthat's the only guidance they get.
Or at best, said, "Do thismindfulness-based stress
reduction sequence."
And I think what's really importantfor people to hear in what you
just said is, if those are the onlytwo things we're being offered,
there's lots more out there.

(14:11):
If those two concepts don't help youresolve your chronic stress or whatever
else you are seeking help for, thenkeep trying, find someone who can
help or find a resource who can help.
Yeah.
Because I even remember back inthe day, going to those eight
classes, like that was stressful.
It was a lot of effort for me toactually just show up to those things.

(14:33):
I had to drive.
It was like between the crazycommuting that I was already doing.
So that was a challenge in itself.
But then the homework was topractice these meditations for
45 minutes every single day.
And I was commuting, I was in class, Iwas working on my dissertation at times.
I was like, I had a job, there wasfamily, and there was so much going on,

(14:55):
and it was difficult to commit to evenshowing up for that 45 minutes every day.
I'm not perfect.
I don't advocate everybodyor anybody can be perfect.
So we do what we can.
And so maybe some daysthat look like 20 minutes.
Some days that look like five minutes.
Some days I really did show up forthe 45 minutes, and a lot of times
I fell asleep during that time.

(15:17):
So again, it's like part of this isgiving yourself permission to show up
imperfectly and just to do what you can.
Because again, you are approaching thispresent moment, however the moment is.
So sometimes the moment is really boring.
Sometimes you're really tired.
Sometimes you find yourself judgingeverything that you're doing or
everything that's happening to you.
You have those days where you'rejust super irritable, and nobody

(15:40):
can say anything the right way.
You can't do anything the right way.
Everything just feelslike it's blowing up.
But you can always take threeminutes to look out the window
and take a couple of deep breaths.
And if even three minutes ishard, just take three breaths.
Just start with one breath.
One thing that I always teach my clientsis that it's better to do 30 seconds every

(16:03):
day than even sit for 10 minutes oncea week, because that once a week isn't
going to give you what you're looking for.
But actually, those few momentsthat you take every day will.
You just got us to my next question.
I know when we chatted before, you hadsome specific ideas around overthinkers.

(16:23):
So we'll come
back to
that in just a minute.
But there are two thingsI want to ask you about.
Since you mentioned perfectionism and thatchallenging our-all-or-nothing thinking,
when we're thinking about our practices,do you have any special tips for people
who might have that all-or-nothingwiring or that perfectionism streak?
Anything you would tell themwhen they're getting started

(16:45):
with a mindfulness practice?
There's a lot I would tell them.
I have an entire program ofthings I would tell them.
I think firstly, is havesome self-compassion.
Meet yourself where you are at.
Be kind with yourself,be gentle with yourself.
Step one is acknowledgethat you're only human.

(17:09):
Every single one of us is only human.
And that's why perfectionism— youcan't keep chasing it because that
just is going to lead to unhappiness.
But you can start where you are now, andwhere you are now actually is perfect.
And I say that because itcan't be any other way.
Therefore, it must be perfect the way thatit actually is because that's how it is.

(17:29):
So even just like approachingthings from that way, hopefully,
can give a little bit more ease,and spaciousness, and grace for you.
But then, remembering to that likeawareness is a really big component.
When people start being mindful,you start by just being aware of
your surroundings, aware of yourrelationships, aware of how you do things.

(17:51):
And the three questions that Ialways encourage my clients to
start with, whether they meditateor not, is to ask yourself at least
once a day, what am I thinking?
What am I feeling?
How does my body feel?
Because so many people have no idea.
They're so used to, "Oh, hi, how are you?
I'm fine.
How are you?
Great," moving on.
But in that moment, nobody is actuallychecking in with how I actually am.

(18:17):
Which is why so manyindividuals—especially like the
high-achievers, ambitious folks,a perfectionist among us —I call
myself a "recovering perfectionist"because I still sometimes get
carried away with that mindset.
And I have to remind myself,"Alice, whoa, slow down.
What do you actually want in this moment?

(18:38):
What do you actually need in this moment?"
And if I can't answer that, "Whatwas I thinking just a second ago?
How is that making me feel?
What can I feel in my body?
Is there like tingling somewhere?
Is there pressure somewhere?
How is my breathing even right?"
Because I might be like,"Why am I so stressed?
I don't understand."
And it's because I'm breathing like this,and it's like, you're hyperventilating.

(19:00):
And of course, you're feelingstressed and anxious and overwhelmed.
And if even in that moment you canjust, one long inhale, one long
exhale, and you can notice, "Oh,wow, I was breathing really heavily.
My shoulders were up to my ears.
My chest felt really tight.
Something is making me anxious."
I recognize that's a sign that Imight be anxious and overwhelmed.

(19:23):
"What's going on in my day thatI might be feeling that way?"
Oh, I just got 15 messages from my boss.
Or my coworker has been bombardingme with questions all day.
Or the kids' school called, andthey need me to pick them up, but
I can't, and like my partner can't.
I have so many demandsand responsibilities.
It makes sense why I'm feeling this way.

(19:45):
What can I do to help youuse some of that pressure?
Again, mindfulness can just help youtake that pause to even just realize,
"This is how I'm feeling right now.
This is what I'm thinking, and thisis everything that's impacting that,"
before you ever move on to the next step.
Your question isn't, "Wheredo I feel this in my body?"

(20:07):
it's a "Check-in with your body."
Because the, "Where do youfeel this in your body?"
question isn't accessible to a lot of us.
But when you said, "My shouldersare scrunched up," I was like,
"Oh, I can notice that in my body."
Like I might not notice my feelingsin my body, but I can feel if
my shoulders are tense, or myjaw is tense, or my hip hurts.

(20:28):
And it feels to me like that'skind of a baby step having more
somatic awareness or body awareness.
Absolutely.
Again, we start wherever you are.
If it's easier for you to notice,sort of like, even like physically
see where your body is, that can behelpful because so many people don't
realize that they're walking around likethis [demonstrates a tense posture].

(20:51):
Or you might be sitting at yourtable and you're like this [shows
another tense posture], and you mightnot even realize that you're doing
that until somebody asked , "Oh,why are your fists all balled up?"
And you're like, "Oh.
I didn't even realize I was doing that."
Or you notice, "Oh, my shirt is sweating.
Why am I sweating profusely?"
That's where you can start,you notice what you notice.
And then a part of the practice,especially when you're working with

(21:13):
somebody is I ask more of those fine-tunedquestions like, "What parts of your
body do you tend to notice first?"
So many people might notice theirchest, their stomach, their throat.
For some people, the first I noticedlike tingling in my fingers, or I
noticed that my feet are scrunchedup, or I'm noticing like a headache
coming on, or my ears are burning.

(21:35):
And then you can build up to, "Okay, youtold me that you're feeling overwhelmed.
Where's overwhelmed located in your body?
Or you feel frustrated?
Where does frustrationshow up in your body?"
But like you said, sometimes it takesa little bit before you can get there.
Yeah, that's really helpful.
So then you also have some tips foroverthinkers which we might have a few of.

(21:59):
Yes!
Yeah, so the overthinkers arethe people who are always like,
"Why am I feeling that way?
I shouldn't be feeling that way.
Do I look like I'm feeling this?"
You almost start being like,you're hyper-aware, but
you're also hyper-critical.
The overthinkers tend to bereally hard on themselves.
They tend to judge themselves.

(22:20):
I don't know necessarily if likescientifically it overlaps with
introversion, but I think thatintroverts among us, which I
definitely am, we tend to spendmore time by ourselves recharging.
And what do you do whenyou're by yourself?
You think.
And that you have time to overthink.
So many of my clients get themselvesin trouble in a way when they don't

(22:40):
give themselves enough things to do toactually live and be present in life.
It's like when they're home sick,that's all of the different thoughts
come, and they start like spiraling.
Or even when they go on vacation, theycan't relax because their brain is
thinking about everything they leftbehind at work or everything they're going
to have to get to when they come back.
And it's hard for them toeven relax in the moment.

(23:03):
So that is actually when it isimportant to do more of those somatic
practices —the body practices.
To shift some of that energy fromeverything going on in your mind
to either things that are goingon in your body or things that
are going on in the environment.
I'm sure a lot of your listeners arefamiliar with grounding practices.

(23:24):
So grounding practices are basically thoseexercises that help you be more present
and grounded in your current reality.
One brief definition or I'll giveyou an example of a concept that
people refer to as time-traveling.
So our minds, especially theoverthinkers, we time-travel a lot.
And we either time-travel into thepast or we time-travel into the future.

(23:48):
We don't spend as much time inthe present as we think we do.
So every time you think,"Oh, I should have done that.
Why did I say that?
What did you say to me?
Why did you think that about me?"
That's happening in the past.
And then when you're thinkingabout "Oh, what am I going to do?
And I have laundry to do, and then I'mgoing to have to go on that vacation,
and I have to make sure I pack the kids.
And are we going to have enough to eat?

(24:09):
And did I save up enough money for that?
How am I going to be able to afford that?
I know the debt that I'm going to and thenthe creditors are going to come after me."
That's all in the future.
So your time-traveling; you'renot actually here right now.
Is this sparking something in you?
Yeah.
Alice is observing my bodylanguage the video right now.
Yeah, so you're noticing yourbody is scrunching up, right?

(24:32):
Because this feeling is so familiar.
It's familiar to me too.
I think most of us have beenthere, at least at some point
in our lives, if not frequently.
And you can bring yourself back intothe present by doing some grounding,
by practicing some mindfulness,whether that means meditation or not.

(24:52):
The easiest way to do thatis to notice the five senses.
A really common grounding practice isthe "five, four, three, two, one" which
you might've heard of before, right?
So name five things that you can see inyour environment, four things that you
might be able to touch, three thingsthat you can hear, two things that you
can smell, one thing that you can taste.

(25:15):
And because all of those things likeyour sensory perception is only happening
in the present, so it helps you getgrounded and be with this moment.
So even just as an example, the watertastes cold, the glass feels nice on
my hand, if I put my lips against it, Ilike that sensation and I can close my

(25:36):
eyes and just be with that for a moment.
I can smell it.
I can see what can I hear?
And again, just doing that, taking oneminute, two minutes to do that, you'll
feel a lot more present and you willrealize that all of that overwhelm,
the anxiety, maybe the excitement,That was all your mind time-traveling

(25:57):
either into the past or into the future,because right now, in this moment,
chances are you're actually okay.
At least when it comes tophysical safety, you are fine.
You are safe.
There's no immediate danger right now.
Even though so often it feels thatway, when your imagination throws
you into what could be or what was.

(26:19):
Even when you say "grounding," I obviouslyhad a little bit of identification with
some of what you just described in termsof the ways that overthinkers time-travel.
And when you said the word grounding,and this is interesting, because I
struggle with somatic and body practices.
I'm a really big brain connected tosomething that doesn't always register.

(26:41):
But when you said"grounding," I felt my feet.
It can be that simple of just that wasn'tme grounding, quote unquote, but it was
my system heard the word and then said,"Yep, my feet are touching the ground."
And even that is a cool forsomeone like me, who struggles

(27:01):
with body-based practices, youdon't have to do it "right."
I would actually argue, Sara, thatyou did it exactly right, because your
body intuitively knew how to ground.
And the way that felt maybe easier foryou to is to pay attention to your feet.
And that is a grounding practice.
You can literally just bring yourattention to your feet, your toes,

(27:24):
your heels, your ankles, and justnotice what's going on there.
You can stand up and take a gentlewalk, pacing just back and forth a
couple of times, wherever you are.
You can go outside and plant yourfeet in the dirt or in the grass
and notice what that feels like.
And something that I even like to dois I'll go and I'll touch some leaves—

(27:46):
whether it's weeds or grass or basil,whatever is around—like, touch something
living, that can help immediatelyground your body in this moment.
So, it doesn't have to bejust through your feet.
It could be through any body part.
And that's why, I think so often we say"stop and smell the roses" because that.
can be a grounding practice.

(28:07):
It connects your sensory perceptionto something that's happening
here, like the flower in your face.
What this is calling my attention to is,in the mechanism that I was introduced
to meditation, of course, non-judgmentwas one of the principles that I taught.
And I don't think I everrealized that doesn't just mean

(28:32):
a lack of judgment externally.
It's also being non-judgmentalof yourself or that to yourself.
So, that's also what I hear when youtalk about different approaches to
practice and different ways to practiceperfectly imperfectly human, is that
we can the non-judgment that we may beworking on cultivating toward others

(28:57):
and also give ourselves that gift too.
Yes.
absolutely.
And that's why I think like the kindnessand the compassion tie so closely
with it, because if you can be kindand compassionate towards yourself,
it will help you judge yourself less.
So not only will you likely beless critical and judgey of other
people, but hopefully you'llalso do the same for yourself.

(29:20):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Alice, is there anything I haven't askedyou that you'd like to share today?
One thing that I wanted to mention,because you said that sometimes you have
a hard time connecting to your body—outside of even just grounding in your
senses or the physical and connectedto what we literally just spoke about
with self-compassion—is I often liketo teach people like the self-hug.

(29:44):
And so for some people, that mightsound really cheesy or corny or silly
or stupid or notice all of those wordsthat even as I said, that might your
brain offers kindly to you, right?
And try it anyway.
And I actually learned this fromanother therapist on Instagram.
Go figure, sometimes there's usefultips there, but use with caution, right?

But this is what it looks like (30:07):
You take the palm of one hand and you put
it on under your armpit—so like forwomen where the bra strap would go.
For men, it's like the rib cage.
And the other hand goes onthe outside of your shoulder.
And so take a moment and then if youcan even close your eyes, and if you
want, you can even slowly sway back andforth, and you can even move one hand

(30:28):
a little bit up and down your shoulder.
And I don't know about you, but mybreathing immediately slowed down,
and my voice immediately slowed downbecause there's something just so
soothing and comforting about this.
So, Sara, you can open your eyes.
But literally doing this for just 10seconds has such an immediate grounding

(30:53):
and soothing and compassionate effect.
I immediately feel myown presence with myself.
I am here, and I offer myselfthis kindness, this gentleness,
this love in this moment.
Yeah It's really cool.
I think when people hear "self-hug,"they think, like woo-woo emotion, but

(31:14):
when I just practiced that with you,what I felt was physical compression,
and that felt good to my body.
It regulates your nervoussystem, literally.
And it's so immediate.
It's mind boggling howquickly it can work.
But it's actually really similarbecause so many of us can
get dysregulated so quickly.
You might smell something, andwe know smell is a really strong

(31:37):
connector to memory, and it mightbring up really negative memories,
like sadness or grief or anger.
But actually just as quickly, you canoffer yourself a self-hug, and that
will almost just as immediately regulateyour nervous system down because You're
offering yourself that sense of safety.
When we are hugged in this way, wefeel safe, secure, and connected.

(32:00):
So yes, it feels great if somebodyelse offers us this kind of hug,
but it's actually something that'salways accessible to ourselves to do.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Alice, this has been aphenomenal conversation.
I know we talked about, we might haveanother one about when to consider
coaching, when to consider therapy,and then what to look for in providers.

(32:23):
So we'll back for that episode.
But in the meantime, where canpeople find you if they want
to learn more about your work?
Thank you, firstly, somuch for having me, Sara.
This was great.
I love talking about this stuff.
So it's something that I doa lot on my Instagram at Dr.
Alice Rizzi.
My website is togethermindful.com,where people can find a free

(32:45):
mindfulness toolkit, and especiallylike the overthinkers, the people
who are too busy to meditate.
And I say that in jest because I'vebeen there, but I have a week's
worth of just three-minute exercisesthat you can practice every day.
So you can't tell me that you don'thave three minutes to help yourself
feel better, especially if you haveproblems like chronic stress and chronic

(33:08):
overthinking, overdoing, and burnout.
You can find three minutes in yourday to do some mindfulness practices,
and I show you seven differentways that you can do it, only one
of which is sitting and breathing.
So that's on togethermindful.com,and if anybody happens to be in New
York or Florida and is interestedin therapy, that's dralicerizzi.com.

(33:30):
That's awesome.
Dr.
Rizzi, well, Alice, this has beenjust a phenomenal conversation.
I just can't thank you enough.
Really, I wish that I hadaccess to information like
this earlier in my practice.
So I'm just really grateful that you'rehere to share with my listeners today.
Thank you so much, Sara.
And totally me too.

(33:50):
Like, it was such an accident that Istumbled on mindfulness like when I
was 20 years old, and I'm so gratefulbecause I can honestly say that it
has changed the trajectory of my life.
For anybody who doesn't know me,I don't think we mentioned it,
I used to be an anxious ball.
I used to be an extremelyanxious individual.
I had a lot of social anxiety.

(34:11):
I used to have a lot of physical symptomsassociated with anxiety, and when I got
on the path of mindfulness, as cheesy asthat might sound, so much of that changed.
And it's not that I don't experience itanymore, it's that I manage it so much
better now in a healthy way, where I'mstill able to enjoy and actually love my
life, whether anxiety is present or not.

(34:32):
That even makes me, because I have chronicpain and other kind of history stuff too.
But it also makes me think if youdevelop basic mindfulness skills,
then you also catch what you'refeeling in your body before it becomes
chronic or before it becomes worse.
So, it just, it makes absolute sense.
All the years that I was coached to reduceor told by medical professionals, "You

(34:58):
need to reduce your stress, you need tostart meditating," but that didn't sink

in for me as much as what you just said: that if you can cultivate some basic (35:03):
undefined
mindfulness, you can notice what's goingon with your body before it's a crisis.
Yes, I think you summed that up perfectly.
And that literally starts with justlike taking one mindful breath, going
to the window and just looking outside,sinking your toes into the dirt.

(35:25):
That's literally the start of yourmindfulness journey, and it's so
cool to see where it can take you.
I can't thank Dr.
Alice Rizzi enough for joining me for thisepisode, and I hope you have a few helpful
takeaways to help you de-perfect and notoverthink your mindfulness practices.

(35:46):
Alice's contact info is in the shownotes at findrc.co/thinkydoers.
And don't forget to join me forGoal Fridays or the replays.
Thank you for joining and listening.
I really can't wait to hear from youabout what in this episode resonated,
so I would love to hear your feedback.
Also, don't forget to subscribe to ournewsletter at findrc.co/newsletter, so

(36:13):
you can hear about everything happeningall at once before the general public.
you can find
me at Sara Lobkovichpretty much everywhere.
I'm pretty sure I'm the only one.
You're always invitedto contact me by email.
The easiest one to spell issara, S A R A at Thinkydoers.com.

(36:34):
If you have other Thinkydoers in your workworld, please pass this episode along.
We really appreciate your referrals, yourmentions, your shares, and your reviews.
Thank you for tuning in today.
And I look forward to hearing thequestions this prompts for you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mindfulness for Overthinkers and Perfectionists with Dr. Alice Rizzi