June 24, 2025 • 46 mins
How do you find the courage to leave a stable career and chase a creative dream?
In this episode, I sit down with the incredible photographer Mark Clennon, who did exactly that. Mark shares the real story of his leap from a 9-to-5 into the world of full-time commercial photography. We talk about the initial struggles, the community's pivotal role in his journey, and how he built a new life and career after moving to Los Angeles.
I’m excited for you to listen to this conversation. I wish I had had this episode when I first started out as a commercial photographer. Mark shares the challenges and triumphs of defining your artistic voice and building a sustainable creative life on your own terms. Mark’s journey is a powerful reminder that sometimes the biggest risks lead to the most rewarding destinations.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Mark Clennon and His Journey
01:59 Early Creative Influences and Curiosity
04:14 The Gift of Photography and Initial Struggles
05:54 Building Community and Transitioning to Full-Time Photography
10:12 Taking the Leap: Quitting the Day Job
12:10 Navigating the Early Days of Freelancing
15:00 First Major Commercial Success and Learning the Trade
17:00 Relocating to Los Angeles: A New Chapter
19:03 Defining Artistic Identity and Signature Style
22:57 Creative Voice and Decision Making
30:26 Building Community in a New City
36:22 Learning from Challenges and Problem Solving
42:31 The Importance of Creative Play and Reflection
Connect With Mark:
Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mark.c/?hl=en
Mark’s Website: https://www.markclennon.com
Listen to Mark’s TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/mark_clennon_finding_your_point_of_view
Support the Show
Website: www.martineseverin.com
Follow on Instagram: @martine.severin | @thisishowwecreate_
Subscribe to the Newsletter: www.martineseverin.substack.com
This is How We Create is produced by Martine Severin. This episode was edited by Santiago Cardona and Daniel Espinosa.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, this is Mark Lennon and this is how I create.
Welcome to This Is How We Create, a show that digs deeper into the creative life ofcontemporary artists of color.
Discover what feeds their creativity and how they've found or are finding their artisticvoice.
Through these intimate and candid conversations, you'll gain insights into the lives ofcreative professionals of color that are hard to find anywhere else.
(00:25):
Welcome back to This Is How We Create.
My name is Martine Severin, your host.
There's a saying that a photograph is worth a thousand words, but for today's guest, eachimage is worth a thousand truths.
Meet Mark Clennon, a photographer whose lens does more than capture moment.
It reveals authenticity in its purest form.
(00:47):
From the bustling streets of New York City and Florida to his current home in LA, Mark hasbuilt a career on finding the raw, unfiltered
beauty in both commercial campaigns and intimate documentary work.
But what makes his story particularly compelling is how he's navigating the delicatebalance between artistic pursuit and family life.
(01:12):
As a father and visual storyteller, Mark is crafting a legacy that goes beyond the frame,one that encourages people to embrace their authentic selves and celebrate the quiet,
dignity of everyday experiences.
Mark is here to share how he captures the truth through his lens and why creating imagesthat resonate across generation matters now more than ever.
(01:39):
Mark, welcome to the show.
oh
Hello, happy to be here.
You made me sound like such an artist.
Thank you for the great introduction.
I have a surprise for you.
The surprise is that you are an artist.
Yeah, that's how it works.
You're right, you got it, 100%.
Mark, you have such an interesting background.
(02:01):
So you grew up in Florida, you worked in Sarasota for a bit and ended up being in New Yorkand going to New York.
Can you tell me about those early years of growing up in Florida?
Were there any moments in which creativity kind of sneaked its way into your personallife?
(02:23):
Yeah, mean, you know, my life in Florida was a good one.
know, artistically, I'm not so certain.
I think I've just always been a very curious kid and a very curious person.
I've always just wanted to know how things were made or, you know, where that came fromor, you know, I'm always just always exploring those types of hints and treats of life,
(02:44):
like whether it be, you know,
Photoshopping hall passes for my classmates.
That was one of my earliest creative endeavors in high school.
Or just working at the library, being surrounded by books and just being bored out of mymind and just flipping through as many books as I could.
Not necessarily reading them, but flipping through the pages just to look at the photossometimes.
(03:06):
Not really realizing that I was kind of ingesting artistic images at the time in highschool.
I think that's when it kind of...
The bug kind of grew for me in terms of like maintaining that curiosity in all thingsculture.
Once you moved to New York, you started doing photography and it was your mom who gaveyou, well, you were doing photography, raised your phone and your mom ended up giving you
(03:32):
a DSLR.
Can you tell us about that gift?
And when you opened the box to see the camera there, tell us how you felt when she gaveyou that gift.
I was already in New York, you know, enjoying my time in the city as a young businessperson.
I was working in tech at the time and for Christmas, I believe, my mom got me like a CanonT5i, you know, like a $300 starter camera with the extra lens.
(04:01):
I think it was an 18 and 55 paperweight.
But I got the camera and I walked over to Central Park.
lived in Harlem at the time, so it was a quick walk.
And I took a few photos and I went back home
and put them in my computer, like, dang, these are not good.
Like, I don't know if I like this.
And then I put the camera down and it sat on that desk for a full calendar year.
(04:28):
I did not pick it up again.
It was a literal paperweight.
I would say, is too, like, it was too hard.
I didn't like carrying it around.
It's too big for me to carry around the city.
So I'm like, not into it.
I'll stick with my phone.
And then that was that.
Then my friend moved to, one of my frat brothers moved to New York and he had the samecamera as me and he was walking around taking photos.
(04:50):
I got that same camera, I can dust it off, I'll walk with you and take some photos.
Then we ran into my other frat brother who had a camera as well.
So the three of us were just walking around the city taking pictures and having like alittle friendly competition about like who can get the coolest photo.
And I think that's when it stuck because I had like a little cohort of people do it withme.
And so the second time around, the second time I pick up that camera, it stuck.
(05:12):
and I really started to enjoy the process of learning how to use it.
I mean, I was shooting in auto mode for the first several months, and then the three of uswere like, all right, let's try to shoot on manual.
And we'll try to learn aperture, ISO, and shutter speed.
And it's funny, like, the thought of me learning how to do that, because these things comeso naturally.
It's like a language to me now.
(05:32):
But at the time, just learning aperture, shutter speed, and ISO was my goal, just to getjust a little bit better.
And from there, it just kind of grew and grew to where I started to take myself a littlebit more seriously.
And after a year, I was 2016, 2017, I quit my job to pursue it full time.
(05:54):
While you quit your job to pursue photography full-time, in the meantime, you were busymaking relationships.
You were busy building community through these photo walks.
It wasn't just with these three friends that you were doing the photo walks, but you werelike just connecting everywhere you went.
Can you tell me about the gradual decision, or maybe it was an abrupt decision that youmade to go and do photography full-time?
(06:24):
How did that decision come about for you?
It was all, everything, now that I look back on it, everything happened so fast.
It was just the three of us and then we made a group chat and then we added, we ran intoother black photographers in New York, we added them to the group chat.
And then we ran into some, and eventually the group chat had 700 people.
And 700 people in the group, it was a group meeting, 700 people, black photographers inthe New York City area.
(06:49):
So yeah, we did build community and then we activated on that by having these photo walks.
I think the first photo walk that we,
we hosted, I was still shooting on auto mode.
I barely knew how to use my camera, right?
Until we grew from there.
And that community, that cohort of us were able to grow alongside each other and makecareers of our own.
(07:09):
But that first year, I worked at a company that's been acquired by Verizon since, but itwas called Airwell, America Online.
And I was working as a tech salesperson there.
but in the same building was the Huffington Post.
So I had some friends at Huffington Post, other black folks, and I was like, I'm to thisAfro punk festival.
(07:32):
Do you any pictures?
I'll just give them to you for free.
And they're like, yeah, we'll do it.
And so that was like my first byline was shooting the Afro punk festival in Brooklyn.
And then that's my first time getting any type of traction on the internet or Instagram.
I'm like, this is like a fun, like I like this hobby.
Like it's becoming like a real thing.
Like I have a.
I'm to post my line now.
(07:54):
I'm getting some momentum.
Perhaps I should do more of this.
And then was, alongside building that community, just getting better by shooting brunchesand parties and day parties.
People who were inebriated, let me hold your camera, let me see my picture.
It was all of that played a part in the growth of what I was doing.
So I would work nine to five, nine to six, and in the weekend there'll be a bunch ofparties in New York and I would be the photographer.
(08:20):
and I'll walk around the club or whatever taking pictures of people and uploading them.
You know, making 200 here, 300 here, just enough money to buy a better lens eventually andthen buy a better camera body eventually.
Everything was kind of paying for itself in those early days.
um And then I saw a pathway, like hey, maybe if I really took this thing seriously, youknow, and I wasn't really into my job at the time.
(08:48):
I was meeting a lot of hair stylists and we were shooting like little small campaign typephoto shoots.
We were still shooting doing stuff for free, but maybe if I really tried hard, I couldmake a little money from this.
Then I started to book things pretty regularly in the event space.
Then I'm making a thousand bucks in a month.
I'm like, all right, okay, all right, we get a little traction here still now.
(09:10):
Making more than I was making at my regular job, but I felt some traction and then I gotinto my first few bids.
I the first bid was for Genius.
I think I quoted them like $2,000 for like a three-day shoot.
But I'm like, oh, okay, there's an ecosystem here and I can use all the tools that I'musing now.
I work in a professional setting.
(09:32):
was really good at handling and dealing with clients because I did that on a regularbasis.
I can make my own decks and briefs.
I had experience making websites and managing email lists.
all the things that you need to do as a photographer.
I kind of knew Photoshop very well from being a graphic designer in college.
So all these things kind of lent itself towards photography and it just made perfectsense.
(09:56):
So I was kind of waiting on getting laid off because there a lot of layoffs happening inthe company at that time.
And then one layoff came and I didn't get laid off.
And I was like, man, I guess I'm just going have to quit.
I'm just going to have to quit.
So October 2017.
is when I decided to quit.
It was my New Year's resolution in 2017.
I thought I was to quit like January or March of 2017, but I kept putting it off,partially because I was scared and I didn't know what I was, really didn't know what I was
(10:24):
doing at the time.
But October was the day, it's October now.
yeah, was, you know, seven years, seven years ago, I quit my job.
I never look back.
What happened next?
So you quit your job, you're earning a bit of money here and there, but as you mentioned,not enough to replace the salary that you were earning working at AOL.
(10:49):
How did you close that gap in terms of being able to put yourself out there and earn themoney that you needed in order to live?
October's not a good time to enter their photo business.
(11:09):
Now we know, right?
Now we know.
So yeah, I saved up $25,000 and like, okay, let me make up.
Let me take this $25,000 and see what I can do.
Like how long it can last me.
October, I like did a whole campaign.
So I shot like a video, basically like a grand opening.
I'm doing this photography full time.
(11:31):
My goal was to let everybody know I am no longer doing that.
I'm doing this.
And I feel like that was very important for me to have like a grand opening.
Like it had to be a grand, epic,
announcement, right?
It just can't be like a tweet or LinkedIn update.
So I shot a video and I explained why I quit.
It resonated really well with a lot of people on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn.
(11:53):
And then I got my first call from Tiffany Warren on Facebook.
She sent me a Facebook message and I don't check Facebook very often, but she sent me afake and I got it.
And I flew out the next week to shoot the ad color conference and awards, which is a, wasthe conference highlighting and celebrating, you know,
minorities in advertising and equitable advertising.
(12:14):
So that was my first gig, like the first week after I quit my job.
So that was great, it was amazing.
I got flown out to LA, shot for a week, and I learned a lot about the ad business and theprocess.
But after that, crickets.
So I'm hustling, you know, go through the holidays.
Of course nothing's happening in the holidays.
I'm still shooting like little events, like events and parties.
(12:37):
here and there, I'm taking on clients, so I had my packages, where like, all right, sowith this package, the silver package, you get 10 photos, and I was just working my way
up.
So I had that whole email funnel list where I'm getting clients, and I'm shooting them, sonow I'm my day rate at that time.
Sometimes I'm gonna get a good gig for like 900 bucks for like two days of work, you know?
(12:59):
But I was just from line to line, I was still making a way, but I think by March, I waslike, that $25,000 turned into like,
1500 and I was really like, I don't know if this is gonna work.
And then a friend of mine, Tana Spencer, we were at a culture con or CCNYC event in NewYork and I was shooting the photos and she's like, oh, I just got this job at Foot Locker.
(13:26):
And when I really start, I'm definitely gonna tap you in to do a shoot with Foot Locker.
like, okay, yeah, yeah.
And I believed her, I'm like, I'm not gonna put all my A's in this basket, it's a goodlead.
But sure enough, maybe a month later she's like, hey, we're ready for our first shoot withFoot Locker.
This was my first commercial shoot.
boy did I need it.
(13:46):
I'm like, okay.
So it was a subway themed shoot.
So we're shooting on the subway and I took a good friend of mine, Rashida, who's worked asmy assistant and collaborator ever since this first shoot, I took her through the subway
and I.
simulated the entire shoot from shot one to the last shot the day before.
(14:08):
And I edited the photos and everything.
So the next day when we came to the shoot, I had already shot the shoot.
We just had the talent now.
And we just ran through the exact same poses I did, the exact same parts of the subway.
We simulated what time of day it would be.
Thinking, it's a subway.
We didn't have like official permits.
We had to work around people.
I found stations over the end of the tracks where you have like,
(14:31):
We timed it like maybe five minutes to shoot it before I left the station.
And that was my first shoot.
I really did a good job with it.
Tanis was super happy.
This was her first shoot with Foot Locker.
Foot Locker really loved it.
And from there, was, I was running.
It was Foot Locker back to back to back.
So I'm shooting a bunch of Foot Locker stuff and other people are hitting me up for likedifferent campaigns.
(14:53):
And that's when I started to get a lot more traction in the commercial space.
And all the while I'm still doing like
experimental shoots in partnerships with companies like PeerSpace to work on my editorialside of my business.
that was the first shoot.
That first shoot was Foot Locker and Champion.
And once that one hit, I was able to kind of keep that momentum rolling all the way towhere I am.
(15:17):
You did something that is, you know, what we do now, which is called pre-light.
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna side scout and a pre-light.
Yes
You did a pre-light day.
Over here in Chicago, we just say tech day.
So that was your tech day.
It was a tech day, tech scalp, yeah.
No tech, no digi, nothing.
(15:39):
I shot everything with a Mark III probably and a 24-70 and an 85mm lens.
But yeah, I knew my spots.
I knew exactly what we were going to do.
And I was like, I was really nervous.
I was really nervous that day.
And looking back, if I was presented with that same shoot again, I probably wouldn't be asnervous, but I'm nervous for every shoot.
(16:02):
the anyway, sorry.
I am as well.
think people don't realize the amount of prep that goes into it.
And the thing that I came to realize is whenever something looks really easy that anotherphotographer has done, I know that it was really hard.
Yeah.
Because the whole point is to make it look easy because there's all of this training thathas come in to doing it.
(16:28):
And then, you know, obviously there's like all of the techs that are
around to make the light look like it looks.
Yeah, no, it's funny because we see some of these photos and it looks like it's just thephotographer and the one person in the woods and me knowing production.
It's like, yeah, that's probably 35 people out there all looking at the photographer, youknow, while they make these shots.
(16:53):
So yeah, that was my first, you know, learning about the commercial space is like theprep.
The prep is super important.
It's all in the prep.
What brought you over to Los Angeles?
Why did you make the move from New York to LA?
You know, I kind of ended up in LA kind of by accident.
Like I'm still surprised that I live here.
(17:15):
I just floated the idea.
We floated the idea.
We flirted with the idea of like moving to Los Angeles.
This is the latter part of the pandemic years where we had spent the whole pandemic inManhattan, you know, in Harlem, been a cramped space, not able to properly socially
distance and et cetera.
It was just a lot of New York was a lot at the time.
(17:36):
And I just had my daughter.
And we were like, let's just try out LA for a little bit, or let's just test it out.
And next thing you know, we just kind of up moving out here.
And it was kind of like a shell shock.
wait, where we really live in LA.
my first couple of weeks, I would like leave in a van or something and drive to the hotelI usually stay at in LA before I went home.
(17:58):
literally forgot to live here.
But I think it was just a change of pace, lifestyle change.
A lot of the work was coming out here when I was living in New York, like I was coming outto LA for a one day shoot.
Let's say the shoot was on a Wednesday, I'm flying in Monday or Tuesday, shooting for oneday and flying back.
It's like a whole week, I'm kind of burned flying back and forth from LA.
(18:19):
So I just felt like there's a lot of opportunities out here for me.
And my wife who works at a large tech company as well, she could switch offices fairlyseamlessly.
So it enabled us to kind of make that transition over.
point in your career, Mark, your work is amazing.
It has your fingerprints, your DNA all over it.
(18:43):
I'm wondering, you do editorial work, you do commercial work, lifestyle work.
What have you learned over these past few years in terms of a way to make sure that thatDNA, that that fingerprint really is all over?
the photoshoot or the assignments that you get.
(19:06):
That's a good question.
I used to struggle with trying to figure out what my work was.
Especially when we talk about that first year, those early years in New York where I'mjust trying everything again.
I'm just a very, very curious person.
I'm gonna try it all.
When I was coming up, I was at music festival pits shooting music festivals.
(19:28):
I was doing crowd shots.
I was doing New York Fashion Week backstage.
I was doing street style.
I was doing parties, right?
I was doing it, I was doing it all.
And people were like, you know, you're gonna have to like pick your thing if you wannahave a career in this business.
And I kinda didn't, it felt prickly to hear that.
(19:49):
So I just said, what I'm doing is kinda working now, so I'm just gonna keep doingeverything that I like to do.
And then I'll figure it out.
And I think that was the right decision for me.
Like everybody has their different path.
So for me, I got to a certain point where,
I just looked at my website or like I laid out all the images that I made from the fashionweek stuff, backstage, street style, documentary type work, event coverage, editorial, my
(20:14):
own conceptual singular fine art projects.
And I started to like notice trends.
Well, obviously like we have black people in these images.
can tie up, I could see a through line there, but like I could see an emphasis on like,wow, hair and hair texture.
like to have, I'm have two.
subjects, their heads touching pretty often, like that type of tenderness is there.
(20:35):
There's some floral elements that kind of find their way into my work somehow.
I don't really have the color blue.
For some reason, I don't really have much blue in my work.
My work is a little warmer.
Even when like I'm not thinking about it, I kind of found some through lies like, wow,like my sets will start off very, very colorful, but I do a lot of like intentional work
(20:57):
to kind of bring those colors in together to kind of
mesh a little bit, like round them out, everything's rounded edges.
So I'm like, okay, like I see these pattern, okay, that's me.
Now that I've shot all this stuff, as long as it has like the things that I justmentioned, or like three of the four, it's me.
So you can swap out the subject, but you still have these other elements that's warmth toit, and it's still me.
(21:22):
You can make an image cooler, like it could be a cooler temperature image, but it has therest of these elements, and it still has me.
And I realized like a lot of my work,
they're either, I know this sounds silly, but they're either intentionally lookingdirectly into the camera right at me, or they're intentionally looking down our way.
And I know that's like, there's only two options there, but like, I don't know, I justfeel like I capture the in-between moment between that looking directly at camera and
(21:48):
looking down at me.
You can kind of feel both of them in one in my work.
So that in-between moment, so there's a movement, there's a movement to it that's notnecessarily like an athletic feel.
They're not like,
People aren't sprinting, but they look like they've just finished moving.
And those are some elements that over time I was able to identify in my own work.
(22:09):
So now that I'm able to identify, okay, this is what I am foundationally.
I used to have the term called like a whimsical defiance.
So I used that term in those earlier years, like in my brain, like, okay, does it havelike a whimsical attitude to it?
And as long as it has that, it's gonna feel like me.
You know, obviously there's in certain situations when we're working on like in thecommercial space, there's some sessions that need to be made for specific skews or, you
(22:35):
know, specific products.
But in my selects, you know, the selects that I pulled out from my client work, you know,I just put out something for Wrangler, which I was shocked that I was even on that set
because it very cowboy, very Western, but it still feels like me.
And so I was like, I'm very proud of this because I was in a, I was in an environment andI didn't think I would oh match well.
But I knew I could do it obviously.
(22:57):
But even when I was shooting, I'm like, these look good, but I'm curious to see how it'lltranslate and integrate into my work.
And I think it did a great job of doing so with the colors, with the movement, with thedirect eye contact, with the intentional look aways and engagement.
just find that people, when I ask these questions, that sometimes people have to reallythink about it.
(23:21):
It's not a canned answer.
And sometimes we do know why we do the things that we do, but we don't really know howwe've necessarily come to our creative voice.
But sometimes we do know it's a recipe, that it does take very specific ingredients toarrive at the final product.
(23:41):
In your case, I noticed that
Your work is very cinematic and there's also a bit of haze or do you tend to use haze oratmosphere in a can?
I've used it for sure.
I've definitely used it.
I haven't used it as often as you might think.
(24:04):
think, yeah, I've heard the word cinematic before, but no, I don't use the atmosphere.
think a lot of it has to do with my posts.
I enjoy playing with the curves.
I tend to crush my highlights down.
And so when I bring those highlights down on the curve, not like on the slider,
(24:27):
It kind of forces the colors to touch more.
That's only word I can think of.
So that might be it.
I also love shooting in the shadow.
I love shooting from the shadow side, which I know a lot of DPs like that as well.
So the light source is indirect or behind the subject many times.
(24:47):
So it kind lends itself to the interesting light.
But I try not to overthink things.
I try to keep it instinctual.
And actually, one thing I learned
When visiting museums, especially photography exhibits, there's, you'll see a photo on thewall, and it's just that one photo on the wall.
And if you look at it long enough, you know, as a photographer, as a photo artist, you'relike, I know they took an image right after this, and I know they took an image just
(25:16):
before this.
I know they walked around and took different angles, likely.
Like, that decision-making process,
is fascinating to me.
Like, wow, OK, this photographer chose this image.
I probably wouldn't have, sometime, like, I probably wouldn't have chose this.
But I'm trying to figure out why they chose this image as opposed to the other images I'mimagining in their set.
(25:40):
And that has also, like, allowed me to kind of be more decisive in the images that Ichoose.
Because now I'm thinking about the artists that I see on the wall.
OK, if I only had one image, my decision making is also informing my work.
So like,
That one image that I might choose, what looks like they're in between something, it mightlook awkward to someone else.
It might look like a full pose to someone else, but it works for me.
(26:02):
And so I also understand in posts or in my decision making, me selecting which images alsolend a large voice into my work.
So a lot of that time, a lot of times when you're shooting an editorial, you don't get tochoose a cover.
Or a commercial, you don't get to choose the final image.
that might stray away from my voice, but my selects usually are much more closer to mygeneral ethos.
(26:29):
I guess for me, one of the things that I do, like going back to talking about ingredients,so the ingredients are there, but then the thing that's the most important are one of
three feelings, one of three emotions that need to be in the work.
And if two out of the three, it has to have at least two.
(26:50):
If it has three, all the better.
And I think you mentioned that earlier as well.
How do you cull your images?
Like if you have a big job or a big shoot, like you have a thousand images, how do you getit down to the 15 or?
Yeah.
Well, I finally started using Photo Mechanic and everyone's been talking about it.
(27:12):
And I just used it.
I was using Bridge for the longest time, which by the way, sucked up so much of my time.
And then when I'm on commercial jobs and if I am tethering, then I will use Capture One toget my selects.
But as you're going through, especially if you know, you're working with a digital tech,they're helping with getting the rough.
(27:35):
batch of selects for you and then from there I have to look for really great composition.
All of those ingredients that we talked about have to be in that image and then what Icall it the core values of Martin's Everett photography have to be in it.
And if the core values aren't in it then at least two out of the three have to be in it.
(27:57):
If they're not there then we got to move on.
If something just doesn't work at all I always think let's include it.
and let's see what happens when we tone it.
Because once you tone it, then it might make sense.
But the easy question, Mark, is the throwaway images that I take are always the winners.
(28:19):
The ones I don't think about at all, it's like, let me just do this really quickly.
It'll take me half a second.
I'll just go ahead and take that image and move on.
Nine times out of 10, those are the ones that end up coming in.
The same thing happens with you.
Yeah, so yeah, for me, yeah.
What I do, I try to encourage that to happen.
(28:40):
So let's say I have like, I do most of my editing these days in Capture One, or inPhotoshop, but I would, let's say I have 100 images.
I will tap through those 100 images so fast.
I will go tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, I won't stop until somethingcatches my eye, like, and that's generally composition.
Like I'm barely looking at these photos and I'll mark it one.
So I end up marking like a lot of ones and then I go in slower.
(29:04):
And then just the ones turn the twos, twos turn the threes, fours turn the fives.
And then I get down to my fives.
But that's kind of how I do it.
But before I ship everything, I go back to the ones I never marked.
And there's always one that's like, ah, this is the perfect one.
Or I look for small elements.
Like, I like this element.
(29:25):
I have no shame.
I will crop into the smallest little tiniest piece of image if it works for me.
And so I've...
Some of my favorite images and some of our most effective images have been like somepretty grotesque crops, like really tiniest part of a frame.
But I don't let it stop me.
think that it's like digging for gold sometimes.
(29:49):
that's discovery is what I love to find.
it's finding those little small elements of a photo that I can turn into a wholecompletely different composition is exciting to me.
And it's so much easier to do these days because you have these files that are freaking,they're like, they're huge.
And so you can do a massive crop and turn something that's landscape to portrait.
(30:11):
One of the things that I am curious to hear about from you is about community building.
You had built a huge community in New York and you've moved to LA, you've been there fortwo years.
How are you going about building your community in that part of the country?
(30:31):
Yeah, I mean, it's hard.
It's a lot harder than I anticipated.
And I would just tell my friends, for the first time in my life, I've had to like say thewords, I'm putting myself out there.
It has always come naturally to me to just find myself in a place that is ripe andconducive for creativity and connections of people.
(30:53):
I think New York had a lot to do with that because it's a subway, it goes to the same fewphoto shops.
And also I was on the earlier part of my career, so there's just more people doing it, youknow, and there's more people looking to learn.
As I've progressed in my career, it's a lot harder to like, we all got deliverables atthis point.
We all have four to five briefs.
I got a work on a brief right after this, right?
(31:15):
So we have four to five briefs to work on.
So it's been really, it's been a much heavier lift the further I get in my career to findnew community and a new city.
But you do find it.
The answer is I'm not really sure.
I'm just going to places where people's minds are open.
So like, if there's a panel on creativity and photography, and even if I don't know anypeople on the panel, the people in the audience and the crowd are in a place where they
(31:44):
want to make connections and learn about the craft and talk about the craft.
So okay, that's where I need to be at.
So I'll go by myself and try to meet some folks.
But it's really been the older I get and especially the city that I live in,
I'm finding that I have to be very intentional in creating the space and the time to makenew connections that are not just business based, but just like community based, which is
(32:08):
why I've been intentional about some of the projects that I've been working on where I getto just meet people in the community.
Like our Father's Hands project where we're father, fathers and sons.
And I did it out in LA.
I make it free for everybody in conjunction with the Black Amos Center here in LA.
And I was able to meet a lot of LA families and
you know, people in the community have moved to LA or from LA.
(32:30):
So that's allowed me to kind of build community around these organizations by usingphotography.
I guess that's the easiest way for me to meet people is photography.
So just bringing my camera to places that allow me to make those connections, I think forme is most important in terms of like just meeting people and then find a community in
this industry, especially, you know, just using my camera to.
(32:53):
work with as many people as I can.
So I'm working with new Digitex, and new first assistant lighting directors, and justtreating my team as well so that we keep those connections strong.
It's really difficult to make friends at this age.
And it's really difficult to network too, because you're a father, you have a young child,and oftentimes life isn't the same.
(33:18):
Family life isn't the same as it was when we were younger, before family life, right?
There's bedtimes and there's all this stuff that has to happen.
And then moving to a new city is stuff, because it is in some ways like starting over.
And I know because I moved from London to Chicago, it takes a while, but then afterwardyou do hit your stride where you'll meet people on a professional level, you'll meet
(33:47):
people on a personal level, and then there are schools and couples and all that stuff.
It happens, but just a little bit slower than we would like.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not like when we were kids, you like Batman?
Me too, besties.
Like, you know, it was that easy back then.
You know, as adults, have time, calendars, invites, rescheduling, you know.
(34:10):
So, yeah.
Mark, as we wrap up, could you tell me about a job that you've had that has been easy,beautiful, and that's kind of brought out the best in you?
And I want to frame this with the fact that you have worked with a lot of A-list folks,you've worked with no-name folks, you've worked with small brands, you've worked with
(34:39):
multinational brands.
I'm just really interested to hear what some of those experiences might be for you.
There's always a curve ball, but I think I did one with Kate Spade that was very smooth.
Like we all had a central location, meeting places, they had omelets for breakfast craft.
(35:02):
Yeah, at the time I had never seen, like, wow, we really doing it big with the omelets,like the custom omelet, they have an omelet maker, this is great.
But like the communication was great.
The schedule, everything was scheduled to a T.
And a lot of times, you know, the industry has been shifting to where a lot of times as aphotographer, we're working on motion sets and sometimes we're an afterthought, but we're
(35:25):
also key art.
it's a lot, there's always like that friction of like trying to find my time to get myshots, but I feel like we had our designated time to get our shots and you know, we work
with a great creative director and producer to help us see it across the finish line.
But it's funny because
the really smooth ones, I'm not sure that I remember as well as the ones where there'ssome unforeseen production issue or just stuff that's out of our control and we found ways
(35:55):
to problem solve and get it done anyways.
I feel like those are the memorable ones where we really get to flex our problem solvingskills and muscles.
And so in a lot of ways, I kind of enjoy.
Well, can you give me an example as to one of those experiences where you came out with asolution or you came out learning something that you were like, huh, that was great.
(36:20):
I'm glad I learned that.
My most recent shoot, I learned that sometimes less is more, and I know that soundscliche, but sometimes the simpler image is more effective to the story that you're trying
to tell.
So I did a shoot that involved two moving cars and a lot of props that were out in thedesert, and I was shooting film, I was shooting digital, I was shooting Super 8, I had a
(36:45):
DP with an Ari, they were all in this truck, and we're driving, I'm switching betweenthree cameras.
And then I get all the images back and I'm like, oh, I should have just used a Super 8 anda film camera and not mess around with any of the other cameras.
I probably would have had a more effective story because I felt like my brain wassegmented in so many different ways.
(37:05):
And for my personal projects, I tend to try to do everything.
And for our commercial projects, where we have a little bit more budget, everybody hastheir designated task.
So for my personal work especially, and as I move into the work I do more for clients,it's like,
I have to be able to delegate my brand space to people that I trust to help me see myvision forward.
(37:28):
So I have certain assistants that I work with that are very technical and they know thelighting to a T, they have all the gear and I need to trust them.
Or I have other assistants who have the experience mentally what it takes to overcome along shoot that's 15 hours or more with a celebrity talent.
I need to trust their advice.
(37:50):
What I'm learning now is we want to truly make the world in our brains come to life andgive birth to these ideas.
We have to be able to communicate clearly to our teams and allow them to do their thingsso I can focus on seeing the vision for it.
Because at a certain point, it becomes less about the technical aptitude of if I can workthis camera or not, and more about can I see this vision through and work around certain
(38:16):
solutions.
So I'll give you an example, another example of like,
When I get on set and we're shooting on location, I always have like a backup placebecause I do not like the sun.
The sun is not my friend.
I like to be in the shade.
like all even.
So I'm always cognizant of like the plan B.
If there's a partly cloudy situation, okay, do we have a solution to where we can get it?
(38:40):
uh
something on a zoom reflector to simulate the sun if we needed a diffuse it.
So I'm bringing my own diffusion with me just in case it rips or somebody forgot it on theorder.
So always identifying like the environments that I like just as a plan B.
You offered some really wonderful, just great thoughts because in some ways I feel thesame way and then in some other ways stylistically I think, I'm on the other end of that
(39:11):
wavelength.
But it's just so, for me, it's such a treat to hear different people's perspectives on howthey approach their creative work.
Because, you know, I'll do it one way, you'll do it another way.
But at the end of the day, it's really your eye, it's your vision, it's your DNA, yourfingerprints that are all over it.
(39:36):
Yeah, I learned in this profession, like, we're really getting paid for our tastes, right?
So once I got that realization on set, I have a little bit more confidence in saying like,ah if I don't like it, I don't even have to say why.
It's like, it doesn't look good to me.
I think we should try something else.
And in the back of my mind, I'm always like, I've been hired because of my taste inimages.
(39:57):
So if I say I don't like it, then to me, I don't like it.
So you hired me to make things that are in my voice.
And that's given me like a little bit of extra confidence going into a lot of my sheeps.
I always think about taste floss, which is kind of a weird thing.
But where do you go to floss your taste to make sure that you're staying nice and squeakyclean and that you're allowing room for inspiration to come through and allowing different
(40:30):
ideas to come through so that you can reflect and stay current and refreshed really.
uh of things like the museum exercise when I go to photo exhibitions and I just like thinkabout what the photographer might have been thinking while they show that image.
But I'm buying a whole bunch of photo books.
(40:51):
All I need is a nice cover and I'll buy it.
Or maybe not even that.
So flipping through those, but for me mentally, I spend a lot of time, probably more timethan I should on the internet consuming things that aren't good or.
or just frivolous.
I've even like too many podcasts.
(41:11):
Like I'm always inputting something.
And it's the times where I'm able to turn everything off, the podcast, the internet, thefootball game, the basketball game, and just sit and stillness.
Those are actually where my ideas come.
Like a lot of people say, oh, I got this idea in the shower.
Well, what are the scenarios in the shower?
You have no devices.
(41:34):
You know, you're in.
you know, you're just in the water by yourself.
So trying to carve out that quiet, alone space for me where I can just clear my mind andallow creating an environment for creativity, which for me is quiet space, maybe like a
little bit of light music, but a lot of times no music, just silence and sometimesdarkness.
(41:55):
But as a father of a young child, it's hard to put that together, but I know what it takesfor me to be creative.
And for me to be inspired is coming from within.
So I need to allow myself the silence to allow myself to hear my own thoughts for anextended period of time.
So anything I can do to create that environment for myself is additive to my creativity.
(42:18):
And of course, films, music, documentaries also inspire me as well.
That intentional stuff that I seek out is much more fruitful than the stuff that kind ofscatters by my timeline.
So I try to like...
stay away from the timeline as a source of creativity.
That makes so much sense.
I have a Substact newsletter and I don't know if I published this last week becausesometimes I will start with an idea and I essentially I write about creativity on
(42:48):
Substact.
And so the newsletter is called Creative Matters.
And I started writing last week on Akilah Townsend, who is a Chicago based commercialphotographer.
You should really check out her work.
I think there's a
There's some crossover.
You'll really vibe with her work.
(43:08):
But as I was thinking about her work and thinking about her journey, because she's aself-taught photographer, and one of the things that she talks about is about play and
going to the museum, like what you were talking about, going to do different things inregards to coming up with new ideas and looking for inspiration.
(43:32):
So there's that and I was thinking about, okay, so what's the neuroscience behind play?
I love neuroscience.
I spent my formative years working in academia, so neuroscience is like, I love it.
But turns out that play in adults is really important because that's where like that tastefloss, that mental floss we were talking about comes in because when you're doing things
(43:59):
like taking a shower,
when you are working on Legos with your daughter or when you are just going for a run orputting a puzzle together, whatever it is that you're not doing, that's not looking for
information.
Your mind is at rest, your mind isn't focusing and therefore all of the things that you'relooking for, you can think about it like a lake that's really calm.
(44:28):
so then...
underneath there's all the things that were lost that kind of bubble up to the top.
And that won't happen, that process of those things bubbling up to the top, it's not goingto happen unless the leak is a little calm.
When you're not actively thinking about creativity, you're just doing something else andyou're doing something else unrelated to what you already do.
(44:53):
They call it creative play because that's when it comes in.
And that's when you'll get those aha moments.
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense.
So Pharrell had the Lego movie and I had the Lego set and I've been having so much funjust putting together the Lego set.
One, I didn't know Lego sets was difficult as they are.
I'm like, this is harder than I thought.
(45:14):
I thought I could do this in one scene where it's been like a week or two now.
But yeah, I've given you so much joy out of that.
And it's just me playing with Legos as a grown man, which lends itself to the point youjust made.
So yeah, that's a great point.
Have you been to Legoland with your daughter yet?
Not yet, not yet.
It's on the long list of itineraries of places we will be hitting.
(45:35):
We are back.
But that said, this has been so much fun, Mark.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Likewise, thank you for having me.
there.
I have a quick favor to ask you before you go.
If you're loving the show, would you mind taking a quick second to leave us a five starreview on your favorite go to podcast app?
(46:04):
Here's the thing.
Those reviews are like magic fairy dust.
They help other creators of color discover our show and tap into their own artisticsuperpowers.
While you're at it, why not subscribe to our sub stack
newsletter Creative Matters.
Creative Matters is like a weekly dose of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.
(46:29):
You can find the link to subscribe in the show notes.
Alright, that's all that I have for you today.
I can't wait to see you on the next episode.
Bye!
Hello, this is Mark Lennon and this is how I create.
Welcome to This Is How We Create, a show that digs deeper into the creative life ofcontemporary artists of color.
Discover what feeds their creativity and how they've found or are finding their artisticvoice.
Through these intimate and candid conversations, you'll gain insights into the lives ofcreative professionals of color that are hard to find anywhere else.
(00:25):
Welcome back to This Is How We Create.
My name is Martine Severin, your host.
There's a saying that a photograph is worth a thousand words, but for today's guest, eachimage is worth a thousand truths.
Meet Mark Clennon, a photographer whose lens does more than capture moment.
It reveals authenticity in its purest form.
(00:47):
From the bustling streets of New York City and Florida to his current home in LA, Mark hasbuilt a career on finding the raw, unfiltered
beauty in both commercial campaigns and intimate documentary work.
But what makes his story particularly compelling is how he's navigating the delicatebalance between artistic pursuit and family life.
(01:12):
As a father and visual storyteller, Mark is crafting a legacy that goes beyond the frame,one that encourages people to embrace their authentic selves and celebrate the quiet,
dignity of everyday experiences.
Mark is here to share how he captures the truth through his lens and why creating imagesthat resonate across generation matters now more than ever.
(01:39):
Mark, welcome to the show.
oh
Hello, happy to be here.
You made me sound like such an artist.
Thank you for the great introduction.
I have a surprise for you.
The surprise is that you are an artist.
Yeah, that's how it works.
You're right, you got it, 100%.
Mark, you have such an interesting background.
(02:01):
So you grew up in Florida, you worked in Sarasota for a bit and ended up being in New Yorkand going to New York.
Can you tell me about those early years of growing up in Florida?
Were there any moments in which creativity kind of sneaked its way into your personallife?
(02:23):
Yeah, mean, you know, my life in Florida was a good one.
know, artistically, I'm not so certain.
I think I've just always been a very curious kid and a very curious person.
I've always just wanted to know how things were made or, you know, where that came fromor, you know, I'm always just always exploring those types of hints and treats of life,
(02:44):
like whether it be, you know,
Photoshopping hall passes for my classmates.
That was one of my earliest creative endeavors in high school.
Or just working at the library, being surrounded by books and just being bored out of mymind and just flipping through as many books as I could.
Not necessarily reading them, but flipping through the pages just to look at the photossometimes.
(03:06):
Not really realizing that I was kind of ingesting artistic images at the time in highschool.
I think that's when it kind of...
The bug kind of grew for me in terms of like maintaining that curiosity in all thingsculture.
Once you moved to New York, you started doing photography and it was your mom who gaveyou, well, you were doing photography, raised your phone and your mom ended up giving you
(03:32):
a DSLR.
Can you tell us about that gift?
And when you opened the box to see the camera there, tell us how you felt when she gaveyou that gift.
I was already in New York, you know, enjoying my time in the city as a young businessperson.
I was working in tech at the time and for Christmas, I believe, my mom got me like a CanonT5i, you know, like a $300 starter camera with the extra lens.
(04:01):
I think it was an 18 and 55 paperweight.
But I got the camera and I walked over to Central Park.
lived in Harlem at the time, so it was a quick walk.
And I took a few photos and I went back home
and put them in my computer, like, dang, these are not good.
Like, I don't know if I like this.
And then I put the camera down and it sat on that desk for a full calendar year.
(04:28):
I did not pick it up again.
It was a literal paperweight.
I would say, is too, like, it was too hard.
I didn't like carrying it around.
It's too big for me to carry around the city.
So I'm like, not into it.
I'll stick with my phone.
And then that was that.
Then my friend moved to, one of my frat brothers moved to New York and he had the samecamera as me and he was walking around taking photos.
(04:50):
I got that same camera, I can dust it off, I'll walk with you and take some photos.
Then we ran into my other frat brother who had a camera as well.
So the three of us were just walking around the city taking pictures and having like alittle friendly competition about like who can get the coolest photo.
And I think that's when it stuck because I had like a little cohort of people do it withme.
And so the second time around, the second time I pick up that camera, it stuck.
(05:12):
and I really started to enjoy the process of learning how to use it.
I mean, I was shooting in auto mode for the first several months, and then the three of uswere like, all right, let's try to shoot on manual.
And we'll try to learn aperture, ISO, and shutter speed.
And it's funny, like, the thought of me learning how to do that, because these things comeso naturally.
It's like a language to me now.
(05:32):
But at the time, just learning aperture, shutter speed, and ISO was my goal, just to getjust a little bit better.
And from there, it just kind of grew and grew to where I started to take myself a littlebit more seriously.
And after a year, I was 2016, 2017, I quit my job to pursue it full time.
(05:54):
While you quit your job to pursue photography full-time, in the meantime, you were busymaking relationships.
You were busy building community through these photo walks.
It wasn't just with these three friends that you were doing the photo walks, but you werelike just connecting everywhere you went.
Can you tell me about the gradual decision, or maybe it was an abrupt decision that youmade to go and do photography full-time?
(06:24):
How did that decision come about for you?
It was all, everything, now that I look back on it, everything happened so fast.
It was just the three of us and then we made a group chat and then we added, we ran intoother black photographers in New York, we added them to the group chat.
And then we ran into some, and eventually the group chat had 700 people.
And 700 people in the group, it was a group meeting, 700 people, black photographers inthe New York City area.
(06:49):
So yeah, we did build community and then we activated on that by having these photo walks.
I think the first photo walk that we,
we hosted, I was still shooting on auto mode.
I barely knew how to use my camera, right?
Until we grew from there.
And that community, that cohort of us were able to grow alongside each other and makecareers of our own.
(07:09):
But that first year, I worked at a company that's been acquired by Verizon since, but itwas called Airwell, America Online.
And I was working as a tech salesperson there.
but in the same building was the Huffington Post.
So I had some friends at Huffington Post, other black folks, and I was like, I'm to thisAfro punk festival.
(07:32):
Do you any pictures?
I'll just give them to you for free.
And they're like, yeah, we'll do it.
And so that was like my first byline was shooting the Afro punk festival in Brooklyn.
And then that's my first time getting any type of traction on the internet or Instagram.
I'm like, this is like a fun, like I like this hobby.
Like it's becoming like a real thing.
Like I have a.
I'm to post my line now.
(07:54):
I'm getting some momentum.
Perhaps I should do more of this.
And then was, alongside building that community, just getting better by shooting brunchesand parties and day parties.
People who were inebriated, let me hold your camera, let me see my picture.
It was all of that played a part in the growth of what I was doing.
So I would work nine to five, nine to six, and in the weekend there'll be a bunch ofparties in New York and I would be the photographer.
(08:20):
and I'll walk around the club or whatever taking pictures of people and uploading them.
You know, making 200 here, 300 here, just enough money to buy a better lens eventually andthen buy a better camera body eventually.
Everything was kind of paying for itself in those early days.
um And then I saw a pathway, like hey, maybe if I really took this thing seriously, youknow, and I wasn't really into my job at the time.
(08:48):
I was meeting a lot of hair stylists and we were shooting like little small campaign typephoto shoots.
We were still shooting doing stuff for free, but maybe if I really tried hard, I couldmake a little money from this.
Then I started to book things pretty regularly in the event space.
Then I'm making a thousand bucks in a month.
I'm like, all right, okay, all right, we get a little traction here still now.
(09:10):
Making more than I was making at my regular job, but I felt some traction and then I gotinto my first few bids.
I the first bid was for Genius.
I think I quoted them like $2,000 for like a three-day shoot.
But I'm like, oh, okay, there's an ecosystem here and I can use all the tools that I'musing now.
I work in a professional setting.
(09:32):
was really good at handling and dealing with clients because I did that on a regularbasis.
I can make my own decks and briefs.
I had experience making websites and managing email lists.
all the things that you need to do as a photographer.
I kind of knew Photoshop very well from being a graphic designer in college.
So all these things kind of lent itself towards photography and it just made perfectsense.
(09:56):
So I was kind of waiting on getting laid off because there a lot of layoffs happening inthe company at that time.
And then one layoff came and I didn't get laid off.
And I was like, man, I guess I'm just going have to quit.
I'm just going to have to quit.
So October 2017.
is when I decided to quit.
It was my New Year's resolution in 2017.
I thought I was to quit like January or March of 2017, but I kept putting it off,partially because I was scared and I didn't know what I was, really didn't know what I was
(10:24):
doing at the time.
But October was the day, it's October now.
yeah, was, you know, seven years, seven years ago, I quit my job.
I never look back.
What happened next?
So you quit your job, you're earning a bit of money here and there, but as you mentioned,not enough to replace the salary that you were earning working at AOL.
(10:49):
How did you close that gap in terms of being able to put yourself out there and earn themoney that you needed in order to live?
October's not a good time to enter their photo business.
(11:09):
Now we know, right?
Now we know.
So yeah, I saved up $25,000 and like, okay, let me make up.
Let me take this $25,000 and see what I can do.
Like how long it can last me.
October, I like did a whole campaign.
So I shot like a video, basically like a grand opening.
I'm doing this photography full time.
(11:31):
My goal was to let everybody know I am no longer doing that.
I'm doing this.
And I feel like that was very important for me to have like a grand opening.
Like it had to be a grand, epic,
announcement, right?
It just can't be like a tweet or LinkedIn update.
So I shot a video and I explained why I quit.
It resonated really well with a lot of people on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn.
(11:53):
And then I got my first call from Tiffany Warren on Facebook.
She sent me a Facebook message and I don't check Facebook very often, but she sent me afake and I got it.
And I flew out the next week to shoot the ad color conference and awards, which is a, wasthe conference highlighting and celebrating, you know,
minorities in advertising and equitable advertising.
(12:14):
So that was my first gig, like the first week after I quit my job.
So that was great, it was amazing.
I got flown out to LA, shot for a week, and I learned a lot about the ad business and theprocess.
But after that, crickets.
So I'm hustling, you know, go through the holidays.
Of course nothing's happening in the holidays.
I'm still shooting like little events, like events and parties.
(12:37):
here and there, I'm taking on clients, so I had my packages, where like, all right, sowith this package, the silver package, you get 10 photos, and I was just working my way
up.
So I had that whole email funnel list where I'm getting clients, and I'm shooting them, sonow I'm my day rate at that time.
Sometimes I'm gonna get a good gig for like 900 bucks for like two days of work, you know?
(12:59):
But I was just from line to line, I was still making a way, but I think by March, I waslike, that $25,000 turned into like,
1500 and I was really like, I don't know if this is gonna work.
And then a friend of mine, Tana Spencer, we were at a culture con or CCNYC event in NewYork and I was shooting the photos and she's like, oh, I just got this job at Foot Locker.
(13:26):
And when I really start, I'm definitely gonna tap you in to do a shoot with Foot Locker.
like, okay, yeah, yeah.
And I believed her, I'm like, I'm not gonna put all my A's in this basket, it's a goodlead.
But sure enough, maybe a month later she's like, hey, we're ready for our first shoot withFoot Locker.
This was my first commercial shoot.
boy did I need it.
(13:46):
I'm like, okay.
So it was a subway themed shoot.
So we're shooting on the subway and I took a good friend of mine, Rashida, who's worked asmy assistant and collaborator ever since this first shoot, I took her through the subway
and I.
simulated the entire shoot from shot one to the last shot the day before.
(14:08):
And I edited the photos and everything.
So the next day when we came to the shoot, I had already shot the shoot.
We just had the talent now.
And we just ran through the exact same poses I did, the exact same parts of the subway.
We simulated what time of day it would be.
Thinking, it's a subway.
We didn't have like official permits.
We had to work around people.
I found stations over the end of the tracks where you have like,
(14:31):
We timed it like maybe five minutes to shoot it before I left the station.
And that was my first shoot.
I really did a good job with it.
Tanis was super happy.
This was her first shoot with Foot Locker.
Foot Locker really loved it.
And from there, was, I was running.
It was Foot Locker back to back to back.
So I'm shooting a bunch of Foot Locker stuff and other people are hitting me up for likedifferent campaigns.
(14:53):
And that's when I started to get a lot more traction in the commercial space.
And all the while I'm still doing like
experimental shoots in partnerships with companies like PeerSpace to work on my editorialside of my business.
that was the first shoot.
That first shoot was Foot Locker and Champion.
And once that one hit, I was able to kind of keep that momentum rolling all the way towhere I am.
(15:17):
You did something that is, you know, what we do now, which is called pre-light.
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna side scout and a pre-light.
Yes
You did a pre-light day.
Over here in Chicago, we just say tech day.
So that was your tech day.
It was a tech day, tech scalp, yeah.
No tech, no digi, nothing.
(15:39):
I shot everything with a Mark III probably and a 24-70 and an 85mm lens.
But yeah, I knew my spots.
I knew exactly what we were going to do.
And I was like, I was really nervous.
I was really nervous that day.
And looking back, if I was presented with that same shoot again, I probably wouldn't be asnervous, but I'm nervous for every shoot.
(16:02):
the anyway, sorry.
I am as well.
think people don't realize the amount of prep that goes into it.
And the thing that I came to realize is whenever something looks really easy that anotherphotographer has done, I know that it was really hard.
Yeah.
Because the whole point is to make it look easy because there's all of this training thathas come in to doing it.
(16:28):
And then, you know, obviously there's like all of the techs that are
around to make the light look like it looks.
Yeah, no, it's funny because we see some of these photos and it looks like it's just thephotographer and the one person in the woods and me knowing production.
It's like, yeah, that's probably 35 people out there all looking at the photographer, youknow, while they make these shots.
(16:53):
So yeah, that was my first, you know, learning about the commercial space is like theprep.
The prep is super important.
It's all in the prep.
What brought you over to Los Angeles?
Why did you make the move from New York to LA?
You know, I kind of ended up in LA kind of by accident.
Like I'm still surprised that I live here.
(17:15):
I just floated the idea.
We floated the idea.
We flirted with the idea of like moving to Los Angeles.
This is the latter part of the pandemic years where we had spent the whole pandemic inManhattan, you know, in Harlem, been a cramped space, not able to properly socially
distance and et cetera.
It was just a lot of New York was a lot at the time.
(17:36):
And I just had my daughter.
And we were like, let's just try out LA for a little bit, or let's just test it out.
And next thing you know, we just kind of up moving out here.
And it was kind of like a shell shock.
wait, where we really live in LA.
my first couple of weeks, I would like leave in a van or something and drive to the hotelI usually stay at in LA before I went home.
(17:58):
literally forgot to live here.
But I think it was just a change of pace, lifestyle change.
A lot of the work was coming out here when I was living in New York, like I was coming outto LA for a one day shoot.
Let's say the shoot was on a Wednesday, I'm flying in Monday or Tuesday, shooting for oneday and flying back.
It's like a whole week, I'm kind of burned flying back and forth from LA.
(18:19):
So I just felt like there's a lot of opportunities out here for me.
And my wife who works at a large tech company as well, she could switch offices fairlyseamlessly.
So it enabled us to kind of make that transition over.
point in your career, Mark, your work is amazing.
It has your fingerprints, your DNA all over it.
(18:43):
I'm wondering, you do editorial work, you do commercial work, lifestyle work.
What have you learned over these past few years in terms of a way to make sure that thatDNA, that that fingerprint really is all over?
the photoshoot or the assignments that you get.
(19:06):
That's a good question.
I used to struggle with trying to figure out what my work was.
Especially when we talk about that first year, those early years in New York where I'mjust trying everything again.
I'm just a very, very curious person.
I'm gonna try it all.
When I was coming up, I was at music festival pits shooting music festivals.
(19:28):
I was doing crowd shots.
I was doing New York Fashion Week backstage.
I was doing street style.
I was doing parties, right?
I was doing it, I was doing it all.
And people were like, you know, you're gonna have to like pick your thing if you wannahave a career in this business.
And I kinda didn't, it felt prickly to hear that.
(19:49):
So I just said, what I'm doing is kinda working now, so I'm just gonna keep doingeverything that I like to do.
And then I'll figure it out.
And I think that was the right decision for me.
Like everybody has their different path.
So for me, I got to a certain point where,
I just looked at my website or like I laid out all the images that I made from the fashionweek stuff, backstage, street style, documentary type work, event coverage, editorial, my
(20:14):
own conceptual singular fine art projects.
And I started to like notice trends.
Well, obviously like we have black people in these images.
can tie up, I could see a through line there, but like I could see an emphasis on like,wow, hair and hair texture.
like to have, I'm have two.
subjects, their heads touching pretty often, like that type of tenderness is there.
(20:35):
There's some floral elements that kind of find their way into my work somehow.
I don't really have the color blue.
For some reason, I don't really have much blue in my work.
My work is a little warmer.
Even when like I'm not thinking about it, I kind of found some through lies like, wow,like my sets will start off very, very colorful, but I do a lot of like intentional work
(20:57):
to kind of bring those colors in together to kind of
mesh a little bit, like round them out, everything's rounded edges.
So I'm like, okay, like I see these pattern, okay, that's me.
Now that I've shot all this stuff, as long as it has like the things that I justmentioned, or like three of the four, it's me.
So you can swap out the subject, but you still have these other elements that's warmth toit, and it's still me.
(21:22):
You can make an image cooler, like it could be a cooler temperature image, but it has therest of these elements, and it still has me.
And I realized like a lot of my work,
they're either, I know this sounds silly, but they're either intentionally lookingdirectly into the camera right at me, or they're intentionally looking down our way.
And I know that's like, there's only two options there, but like, I don't know, I justfeel like I capture the in-between moment between that looking directly at camera and
(21:48):
looking down at me.
You can kind of feel both of them in one in my work.
So that in-between moment, so there's a movement, there's a movement to it that's notnecessarily like an athletic feel.
They're not like,
People aren't sprinting, but they look like they've just finished moving.
And those are some elements that over time I was able to identify in my own work.
(22:09):
So now that I'm able to identify, okay, this is what I am foundationally.
I used to have the term called like a whimsical defiance.
So I used that term in those earlier years, like in my brain, like, okay, does it havelike a whimsical attitude to it?
And as long as it has that, it's gonna feel like me.
You know, obviously there's in certain situations when we're working on like in thecommercial space, there's some sessions that need to be made for specific skews or, you
(22:35):
know, specific products.
But in my selects, you know, the selects that I pulled out from my client work, you know,I just put out something for Wrangler, which I was shocked that I was even on that set
because it very cowboy, very Western, but it still feels like me.
And so I was like, I'm very proud of this because I was in a, I was in an environment andI didn't think I would oh match well.
But I knew I could do it obviously.
(22:57):
But even when I was shooting, I'm like, these look good, but I'm curious to see how it'lltranslate and integrate into my work.
And I think it did a great job of doing so with the colors, with the movement, with thedirect eye contact, with the intentional look aways and engagement.
just find that people, when I ask these questions, that sometimes people have to reallythink about it.
(23:21):
It's not a canned answer.
And sometimes we do know why we do the things that we do, but we don't really know howwe've necessarily come to our creative voice.
But sometimes we do know it's a recipe, that it does take very specific ingredients toarrive at the final product.
(23:41):
In your case, I noticed that
Your work is very cinematic and there's also a bit of haze or do you tend to use haze oratmosphere in a can?
I've used it for sure.
I've definitely used it.
I haven't used it as often as you might think.
(24:04):
think, yeah, I've heard the word cinematic before, but no, I don't use the atmosphere.
think a lot of it has to do with my posts.
I enjoy playing with the curves.
I tend to crush my highlights down.
And so when I bring those highlights down on the curve, not like on the slider,
(24:27):
It kind of forces the colors to touch more.
That's only word I can think of.
So that might be it.
I also love shooting in the shadow.
I love shooting from the shadow side, which I know a lot of DPs like that as well.
So the light source is indirect or behind the subject many times.
(24:47):
So it kind lends itself to the interesting light.
But I try not to overthink things.
I try to keep it instinctual.
And actually, one thing I learned
When visiting museums, especially photography exhibits, there's, you'll see a photo on thewall, and it's just that one photo on the wall.
And if you look at it long enough, you know, as a photographer, as a photo artist, you'relike, I know they took an image right after this, and I know they took an image just
(25:16):
before this.
I know they walked around and took different angles, likely.
Like, that decision-making process,
is fascinating to me.
Like, wow, OK, this photographer chose this image.
I probably wouldn't have, sometime, like, I probably wouldn't have chose this.
But I'm trying to figure out why they chose this image as opposed to the other images I'mimagining in their set.
(25:40):
And that has also, like, allowed me to kind of be more decisive in the images that Ichoose.
Because now I'm thinking about the artists that I see on the wall.
OK, if I only had one image, my decision making is also informing my work.
So like,
That one image that I might choose, what looks like they're in between something, it mightlook awkward to someone else.
It might look like a full pose to someone else, but it works for me.
(26:02):
And so I also understand in posts or in my decision making, me selecting which images alsolend a large voice into my work.
So a lot of that time, a lot of times when you're shooting an editorial, you don't get tochoose a cover.
Or a commercial, you don't get to choose the final image.
that might stray away from my voice, but my selects usually are much more closer to mygeneral ethos.
(26:29):
I guess for me, one of the things that I do, like going back to talking about ingredients,so the ingredients are there, but then the thing that's the most important are one of
three feelings, one of three emotions that need to be in the work.
And if two out of the three, it has to have at least two.
(26:50):
If it has three, all the better.
And I think you mentioned that earlier as well.
How do you cull your images?
Like if you have a big job or a big shoot, like you have a thousand images, how do you getit down to the 15 or?
Yeah.
Well, I finally started using Photo Mechanic and everyone's been talking about it.
(27:12):
And I just used it.
I was using Bridge for the longest time, which by the way, sucked up so much of my time.
And then when I'm on commercial jobs and if I am tethering, then I will use Capture One toget my selects.
But as you're going through, especially if you know, you're working with a digital tech,they're helping with getting the rough.
(27:35):
batch of selects for you and then from there I have to look for really great composition.
All of those ingredients that we talked about have to be in that image and then what Icall it the core values of Martin's Everett photography have to be in it.
And if the core values aren't in it then at least two out of the three have to be in it.
(27:57):
If they're not there then we got to move on.
If something just doesn't work at all I always think let's include it.
and let's see what happens when we tone it.
Because once you tone it, then it might make sense.
But the easy question, Mark, is the throwaway images that I take are always the winners.
(28:19):
The ones I don't think about at all, it's like, let me just do this really quickly.
It'll take me half a second.
I'll just go ahead and take that image and move on.
Nine times out of 10, those are the ones that end up coming in.
The same thing happens with you.
Yeah, so yeah, for me, yeah.
What I do, I try to encourage that to happen.
(28:40):
So let's say I have like, I do most of my editing these days in Capture One, or inPhotoshop, but I would, let's say I have 100 images.
I will tap through those 100 images so fast.
I will go tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, I won't stop until somethingcatches my eye, like, and that's generally composition.
Like I'm barely looking at these photos and I'll mark it one.
So I end up marking like a lot of ones and then I go in slower.
(29:04):
And then just the ones turn the twos, twos turn the threes, fours turn the fives.
And then I get down to my fives.
But that's kind of how I do it.
But before I ship everything, I go back to the ones I never marked.
And there's always one that's like, ah, this is the perfect one.
Or I look for small elements.
Like, I like this element.
(29:25):
I have no shame.
I will crop into the smallest little tiniest piece of image if it works for me.
And so I've...
Some of my favorite images and some of our most effective images have been like somepretty grotesque crops, like really tiniest part of a frame.
But I don't let it stop me.
think that it's like digging for gold sometimes.
(29:49):
that's discovery is what I love to find.
it's finding those little small elements of a photo that I can turn into a wholecompletely different composition is exciting to me.
And it's so much easier to do these days because you have these files that are freaking,they're like, they're huge.
And so you can do a massive crop and turn something that's landscape to portrait.
(30:11):
One of the things that I am curious to hear about from you is about community building.
You had built a huge community in New York and you've moved to LA, you've been there fortwo years.
How are you going about building your community in that part of the country?
(30:31):
Yeah, I mean, it's hard.
It's a lot harder than I anticipated.
And I would just tell my friends, for the first time in my life, I've had to like say thewords, I'm putting myself out there.
It has always come naturally to me to just find myself in a place that is ripe andconducive for creativity and connections of people.
(30:53):
I think New York had a lot to do with that because it's a subway, it goes to the same fewphoto shops.
And also I was on the earlier part of my career, so there's just more people doing it, youknow, and there's more people looking to learn.
As I've progressed in my career, it's a lot harder to like, we all got deliverables atthis point.
We all have four to five briefs.
I got a work on a brief right after this, right?
(31:15):
So we have four to five briefs to work on.
So it's been really, it's been a much heavier lift the further I get in my career to findnew community and a new city.
But you do find it.
The answer is I'm not really sure.
I'm just going to places where people's minds are open.
So like, if there's a panel on creativity and photography, and even if I don't know anypeople on the panel, the people in the audience and the crowd are in a place where they
(31:44):
want to make connections and learn about the craft and talk about the craft.
So okay, that's where I need to be at.
So I'll go by myself and try to meet some folks.
But it's really been the older I get and especially the city that I live in,
I'm finding that I have to be very intentional in creating the space and the time to makenew connections that are not just business based, but just like community based, which is
(32:08):
why I've been intentional about some of the projects that I've been working on where I getto just meet people in the community.
Like our Father's Hands project where we're father, fathers and sons.
And I did it out in LA.
I make it free for everybody in conjunction with the Black Amos Center here in LA.
And I was able to meet a lot of LA families and
you know, people in the community have moved to LA or from LA.
(32:30):
So that's allowed me to kind of build community around these organizations by usingphotography.
I guess that's the easiest way for me to meet people is photography.
So just bringing my camera to places that allow me to make those connections, I think forme is most important in terms of like just meeting people and then find a community in
this industry, especially, you know, just using my camera to.
(32:53):
work with as many people as I can.
So I'm working with new Digitex, and new first assistant lighting directors, and justtreating my team as well so that we keep those connections strong.
It's really difficult to make friends at this age.
And it's really difficult to network too, because you're a father, you have a young child,and oftentimes life isn't the same.
(33:18):
Family life isn't the same as it was when we were younger, before family life, right?
There's bedtimes and there's all this stuff that has to happen.
And then moving to a new city is stuff, because it is in some ways like starting over.
And I know because I moved from London to Chicago, it takes a while, but then afterwardyou do hit your stride where you'll meet people on a professional level, you'll meet
(33:47):
people on a personal level, and then there are schools and couples and all that stuff.
It happens, but just a little bit slower than we would like.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not like when we were kids, you like Batman?
Me too, besties.
Like, you know, it was that easy back then.
You know, as adults, have time, calendars, invites, rescheduling, you know.
(34:10):
So, yeah.
Mark, as we wrap up, could you tell me about a job that you've had that has been easy,beautiful, and that's kind of brought out the best in you?
And I want to frame this with the fact that you have worked with a lot of A-list folks,you've worked with no-name folks, you've worked with small brands, you've worked with
(34:39):
multinational brands.
I'm just really interested to hear what some of those experiences might be for you.
There's always a curve ball, but I think I did one with Kate Spade that was very smooth.
Like we all had a central location, meeting places, they had omelets for breakfast craft.
(35:02):
Yeah, at the time I had never seen, like, wow, we really doing it big with the omelets,like the custom omelet, they have an omelet maker, this is great.
But like the communication was great.
The schedule, everything was scheduled to a T.
And a lot of times, you know, the industry has been shifting to where a lot of times as aphotographer, we're working on motion sets and sometimes we're an afterthought, but we're
(35:25):
also key art.
it's a lot, there's always like that friction of like trying to find my time to get myshots, but I feel like we had our designated time to get our shots and you know, we work
with a great creative director and producer to help us see it across the finish line.
But it's funny because
the really smooth ones, I'm not sure that I remember as well as the ones where there'ssome unforeseen production issue or just stuff that's out of our control and we found ways
(35:55):
to problem solve and get it done anyways.
I feel like those are the memorable ones where we really get to flex our problem solvingskills and muscles.
And so in a lot of ways, I kind of enjoy.
Well, can you give me an example as to one of those experiences where you came out with asolution or you came out learning something that you were like, huh, that was great.
(36:20):
I'm glad I learned that.
My most recent shoot, I learned that sometimes less is more, and I know that soundscliche, but sometimes the simpler image is more effective to the story that you're trying
to tell.
So I did a shoot that involved two moving cars and a lot of props that were out in thedesert, and I was shooting film, I was shooting digital, I was shooting Super 8, I had a
(36:45):
DP with an Ari, they were all in this truck, and we're driving, I'm switching betweenthree cameras.
And then I get all the images back and I'm like, oh, I should have just used a Super 8 anda film camera and not mess around with any of the other cameras.
I probably would have had a more effective story because I felt like my brain wassegmented in so many different ways.
(37:05):
And for my personal projects, I tend to try to do everything.
And for our commercial projects, where we have a little bit more budget, everybody hastheir designated task.
So for my personal work especially, and as I move into the work I do more for clients,it's like,
I have to be able to delegate my brand space to people that I trust to help me see myvision forward.
(37:28):
So I have certain assistants that I work with that are very technical and they know thelighting to a T, they have all the gear and I need to trust them.
Or I have other assistants who have the experience mentally what it takes to overcome along shoot that's 15 hours or more with a celebrity talent.
I need to trust their advice.
(37:50):
What I'm learning now is we want to truly make the world in our brains come to life andgive birth to these ideas.
We have to be able to communicate clearly to our teams and allow them to do their thingsso I can focus on seeing the vision for it.
Because at a certain point, it becomes less about the technical aptitude of if I can workthis camera or not, and more about can I see this vision through and work around certain
(38:16):
solutions.
So I'll give you an example, another example of like,
When I get on set and we're shooting on location, I always have like a backup placebecause I do not like the sun.
The sun is not my friend.
I like to be in the shade.
like all even.
So I'm always cognizant of like the plan B.
If there's a partly cloudy situation, okay, do we have a solution to where we can get it?
(38:40):
uh
something on a zoom reflector to simulate the sun if we needed a diffuse it.
So I'm bringing my own diffusion with me just in case it rips or somebody forgot it on theorder.
So always identifying like the environments that I like just as a plan B.
You offered some really wonderful, just great thoughts because in some ways I feel thesame way and then in some other ways stylistically I think, I'm on the other end of that
(39:11):
wavelength.
But it's just so, for me, it's such a treat to hear different people's perspectives on howthey approach their creative work.
Because, you know, I'll do it one way, you'll do it another way.
But at the end of the day, it's really your eye, it's your vision, it's your DNA, yourfingerprints that are all over it.
(39:36):
Yeah, I learned in this profession, like, we're really getting paid for our tastes, right?
So once I got that realization on set, I have a little bit more confidence in saying like,ah if I don't like it, I don't even have to say why.
It's like, it doesn't look good to me.
I think we should try something else.
And in the back of my mind, I'm always like, I've been hired because of my taste inimages.
(39:57):
So if I say I don't like it, then to me, I don't like it.
So you hired me to make things that are in my voice.
And that's given me like a little bit of extra confidence going into a lot of my sheeps.
I always think about taste floss, which is kind of a weird thing.
But where do you go to floss your taste to make sure that you're staying nice and squeakyclean and that you're allowing room for inspiration to come through and allowing different
(40:30):
ideas to come through so that you can reflect and stay current and refreshed really.
uh of things like the museum exercise when I go to photo exhibitions and I just like thinkabout what the photographer might have been thinking while they show that image.
But I'm buying a whole bunch of photo books.
(40:51):
All I need is a nice cover and I'll buy it.
Or maybe not even that.
So flipping through those, but for me mentally, I spend a lot of time, probably more timethan I should on the internet consuming things that aren't good or.
or just frivolous.
I've even like too many podcasts.
(41:11):
Like I'm always inputting something.
And it's the times where I'm able to turn everything off, the podcast, the internet, thefootball game, the basketball game, and just sit and stillness.
Those are actually where my ideas come.
Like a lot of people say, oh, I got this idea in the shower.
Well, what are the scenarios in the shower?
You have no devices.
(41:34):
You know, you're in.
you know, you're just in the water by yourself.
So trying to carve out that quiet, alone space for me where I can just clear my mind andallow creating an environment for creativity, which for me is quiet space, maybe like a
little bit of light music, but a lot of times no music, just silence and sometimesdarkness.
(41:55):
But as a father of a young child, it's hard to put that together, but I know what it takesfor me to be creative.
And for me to be inspired is coming from within.
So I need to allow myself the silence to allow myself to hear my own thoughts for anextended period of time.
So anything I can do to create that environment for myself is additive to my creativity.
(42:18):
And of course, films, music, documentaries also inspire me as well.
That intentional stuff that I seek out is much more fruitful than the stuff that kind ofscatters by my timeline.
So I try to like...
stay away from the timeline as a source of creativity.
That makes so much sense.
I have a Substact newsletter and I don't know if I published this last week becausesometimes I will start with an idea and I essentially I write about creativity on
(42:48):
Substact.
And so the newsletter is called Creative Matters.
And I started writing last week on Akilah Townsend, who is a Chicago based commercialphotographer.
You should really check out her work.
I think there's a
There's some crossover.
You'll really vibe with her work.
(43:08):
But as I was thinking about her work and thinking about her journey, because she's aself-taught photographer, and one of the things that she talks about is about play and
going to the museum, like what you were talking about, going to do different things inregards to coming up with new ideas and looking for inspiration.
(43:32):
So there's that and I was thinking about, okay, so what's the neuroscience behind play?
I love neuroscience.
I spent my formative years working in academia, so neuroscience is like, I love it.
But turns out that play in adults is really important because that's where like that tastefloss, that mental floss we were talking about comes in because when you're doing things
(43:59):
like taking a shower,
when you are working on Legos with your daughter or when you are just going for a run orputting a puzzle together, whatever it is that you're not doing, that's not looking for
information.
Your mind is at rest, your mind isn't focusing and therefore all of the things that you'relooking for, you can think about it like a lake that's really calm.
(44:28):
so then...
underneath there's all the things that were lost that kind of bubble up to the top.
And that won't happen, that process of those things bubbling up to the top, it's not goingto happen unless the leak is a little calm.
When you're not actively thinking about creativity, you're just doing something else andyou're doing something else unrelated to what you already do.
(44:53):
They call it creative play because that's when it comes in.
And that's when you'll get those aha moments.
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense.
So Pharrell had the Lego movie and I had the Lego set and I've been having so much funjust putting together the Lego set.
One, I didn't know Lego sets was difficult as they are.
I'm like, this is harder than I thought.
(45:14):
I thought I could do this in one scene where it's been like a week or two now.
But yeah, I've given you so much joy out of that.
And it's just me playing with Legos as a grown man, which lends itself to the point youjust made.
So yeah, that's a great point.
Have you been to Legoland with your daughter yet?
Not yet, not yet.
It's on the long list of itineraries of places we will be hitting.
(45:35):
We are back.
But that said, this has been so much fun, Mark.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Likewise, thank you for having me.
there.
I have a quick favor to ask you before you go.
If you're loving the show, would you mind taking a quick second to leave us a five starreview on your favorite go to podcast app?
(46:04):
Here's the thing.
Those reviews are like magic fairy dust.
They help other creators of color discover our show and tap into their own artisticsuperpowers.
While you're at it, why not subscribe to our sub stack
newsletter Creative Matters.
Creative Matters is like a weekly dose of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.
(46:29):
You can find the link to subscribe in the show notes.
Alright, that's all that I have for you today.
I can't wait to see you on the next episode.
Bye!
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