July 1, 2025 • 28 mins
Have you ever wondered how to turn a lifelong passion for food into a celebrated career? In this episode, I sit down with the wonderfully creative food photographer, stylist, and cookbook author, Murielle Banackissa. Murielle shares the story of her creative journey, from her childhood memories in the Republic of Congo to her family's move to Montreal.
Join us as we explore how Murielle masterfully blends her Congolese and Russian-Ukrainian heritage into mouth-watering vegan recipes that might just have you rethinking everything you thought you knew about vegan food. We'll dig into how she organically merged her love for cooking and photography, turning a social media trend into a thriving business and eventually, a beautiful cookbook. This conversation is a heartfelt exploration of identity, the courage to follow your own path, and the magic that happens when you slow down and savor the process.
Chapters
00:00 - From Pointe Noire to Montreal: A Creative Childhood
02:49 - Early Food Memories and Creative Pursuits
06:02 - Merging Passion for Food and Photography
09:38 - The Comfort Foods of Home: A Taste of Heritage
11:30 - The Art and Science of Recipe Development
13:59 - A Cookbook Dream Come True
16:34 - Conceptualizing "Savoring": Memories on a Plate
19:19 - The Four-Year Journey to "Savoring"
21:15 - Finding Joy in Slowing Down the Cooking Process
25:06 - Cultivating an Authentic and Unfussy Style
27:24 - Trusting the Process: Advice to Her Younger Self
Connect With Murielle:
Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/muriellebanackissa/?hl=en
Murielle’s Website: https://muriellebanackissa.com/
Buy Murielle’s Cookbook: https://muriellebanackissa.com/savoring/
Support the Show
Website: www.martineseverin.com
Follow on Instagram: @martine.severin | @thisishowwecreate_
Subscribe to the Newsletter: www.martineseverin.substack.com
This is How We Create is produced by Martine Severin. This episode was edited by Santiago Cardona and Daniel Espinosa.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, this is Muriel Banakissa and this is how I create.
Welcome to This Is How We Create, a show that digs deeper into the creative life ofcontemporary artists of color.
Discover what feeds their creativity and how they found or are finding their artisticvoice.
Through these intimate and candid conversations, you'll gain insights into the lives ofcreative professionals of color that are hard to find anywhere else.
(00:25):
Welcome back to This Is How We Create.
My name is Martine Severin, your host.
If you have ever wanted a friend whose recipes and whose food and the way of cooking, andI'm quoting Sadiya Badei of Pick Up Limes, whose food gives you a burst and is filled with
international flavor, then Muriel Banakisa is the person for you.
(00:49):
If you flip through her latest book, Savoring, you will drool over the recipes inspired byher Congolese and Russian Ukrainian heritage.
And you know what, you might just not notice that everything in her cookbook is vegan.
If you're inspired to learn more, let me tell you a little bit about Murielle.
(01:11):
Murielle Banakisa is a food photographer, food stylist, and first time author of thecookbook, Savouring Meaningful Vegan Recipes from Across Oceans.
She's based in Montreal, Canada, and outside of spending
hours developing new recipes and shooting them in her home studio, Muriel loves gettinglost in good books.
(01:35):
She loves to journal and paint and sips on warm beverages.
Not necessarily while going on long walks, but she also enjoys a good long walk.
Muriel draws a lot of inspiration from the colors and the textures found in nature.
from water droplets to the sun shining through the leaves early in the morning and theorange glow of summer nights.
(02:00):
Muriel, I am so pleased to welcome you to the podcast.
Thank you so much, Martin, for having me.
It's really a pleasure to be here.
I found you first off through Pick Up Limes because I am a reformed vegetarian.
have never quite made it to veganism, but I have been making a few, a lot of vegan recipesactually.
(02:23):
And so I can't wait to get your book.
I've ordered it and it'll be in.
And once it comes, I'm really looking forward to sending you a snapshot of me holding it.
I can't wait to see that.
So I would love for you to start out by telling us a little bit about your childhoodmemories in having to do with food and perhaps also with creativity.
(02:49):
Yes, so I was born in the Republic of Congo in a small town called Pointe Noire.
And honestly, like when I think back of my earliest years, there was so much food andcreativity infused in my days.
In terms of food, one of my earliest memories of food was going to church with my familyand then coming back.
(03:09):
And then my family and their friends would have like these get togethers where everybodywould bring different dishes that they liked and was kind of like this big potluck.
I just love that.
I love the texture, I love the colors and food has always been like something that reallydraws me in.
Most people really, really love food, but from a very young age, I remember like lovingfood.
(03:31):
So that's the food part.
And then in terms of the creativity, my parents made it kind of a point to have me be partof creative activities.
So I used to take painting classes when I was in Congo, which I really, really loved.
I also did a bit of ballet when I was a kid.
That didn't really work out super well.
I was a little too bossy.
I was like bossing the other kids around, but I still really enjoyed it and I loveddancing.
(03:57):
And actually, fun fact, one of my first photo shoots was me dressing up my Barbies andthen putting them on the sofa and taking pictures of them, I'm guessing with a disposable
camera.
And I still have these pictures at home at my mom's place.
And so it started pretty early on because
We left Africa when I was eight years old.
So this happened before I was eight years old.
(04:18):
And then it took many years before I kind of reconnected with my passion for photography.
But creativity was always a big part of my life from a really early age.
When you left Africa, did your family move directly to Moray?
Yeah, yeah, we all came together and we've been in Montreal ever since.
It's been 22 years now that we've been in Montreal.
(04:41):
And uh yeah, so we've always been here since two decades now.
oh
studied, I believe, business as well as marketing in school.
Now all throughout your schooling and in growing up, were you taking photographs at all?
Oh yeah, very much so.
I was always the friend that had the camera who would bring them to little get togethers.
(05:06):
I had a lot of fun just editing pictures.
In the early days, I remember one of my first editing software that I used was Vesco.
I don't know if you remember that.
It was the app on the phone and I used to love playing with the filters and all that.
And food too.
I loved throughout my schooling to just...
tried different recipes, especially on the weekends.
(05:28):
That was always kind of like my precious time to make desserts for my family, try out newthings, research the internet, look through cookbooks to cook for my family.
So it's both have always been a big part of my life.
And it's only later in my life that I merged kind of the two passions together.
That was towards the end of my university schooling that it happened.
(05:50):
Tell me a little bit about how your love of food and becoming a vegan really spurred youon this journey to cooking and to eventually to your cookbook.
Yeah, it's uh honestly, it really happened organically, like many things in life.
I never really thought it would, all these two passions would bring me to where I am todayand having this cookbook.
(06:14):
But initially, because as I mentioned, I love cooking and I used to like editing photos.
And I noticed this little trend on social media where people were taking like pictures ofthe food and then sharing that.
And I started doing that as well.
At that point, I already had a DSLR camera because I
just enjoyed taking photos of like family moments, things like that.
(06:34):
And that's how the passion really ignited.
And then I was offered the opportunity to shoot for a friend of mine who had this icecream company.
And I started taking pictures for his company.
And that was kind of the first time I realized, okay, like this is a thing, like I can dothis as like, you know, a way to make money.
And I was kind of in a, at a crossroads where I was ending school and not really sure whatthe next step was.
(06:58):
So I tried that and it took off.
And then I started developing recipes for companies as well.
So again, that was a job I didn't really know existed.
And the first contract I got doing that, I was just like, how are they asking me to dothis?
Like, this is kind of crazy.
And I was really worried and stressed to do it, but I accepted.
(07:19):
And it ended up being like one of the best decisions of my life because it really trainedme in creating my own recipes and not just executing recipes that I found online.
And then I started sharing these recipes on my blog, taking more photos for myself as wellas for clients.
And at some point I got contacted by Appetite, which is an imprint of Penguin RandomHouse.
(07:43):
And they said, you know, we've seen your work, we like your pictures, we like what youhave to say, and we would love for you to write a proposal for our cookbook.
And that was in 2021, I think.
I'm so mixed up a little bit with the dates, but I think it was 2021.
And the proposal was accepted and there I was on that journey of creating my cookbook.
(08:04):
gosh, okay, so I want to bring us back a little bit and then we'll get to the cookbook.
So Chicago, because I live in Chicago, Chicago is a big food photography town.
And I remember you just saying now that you were asked to photograph ice cream.
I don't think anybody understands how hard it is to photograph ice cream.
(08:24):
yes it is.
It's so tough.
It's really hard.
oh
It's really hard.
I think looking at your YouTube, looking at your Instagram and your website, it's allreally beautiful.
But I don't think anybody understands just how hard it is to do what it is that you do.
I'd love for us to go back a little bit and think about when you went to college,university, as you would say it probably in Canada.
(08:53):
What were the foods that you would call back home wanting the recipe for wanting to learnmore about how your mom cooked this or cook that and tell us about how you felt if you
indeed would call her wanting those foods that really made you feel like home.
What's really interesting is that I, it's a really good question that you're askingbecause I never really asked myself, what was that transition of me eating the food from
(09:21):
my mom cooking it and me actually making the food myself?
Because that, interestingly, in university and even like many years afterwards, thesecomfort foods were foods that I would go to my mom for her to feed us because she always
knew like the exact measurement.
My mind doesn't measure.
anything, so was going to say measurements, but really it's, you know, eyeballing and justthe expertise of making the same recipe over and over again.
(09:46):
And so I would go to her to make things like, for example, my mom's borscht, which is likea classic Russian Ukrainian soup that's made with beets and potatoes, has some cabbage and
also like the Olivier salad, which is kind of like, well, it is a potato salad, but allthe vegetables in it are much smaller in terms of like a chop.
There's some carrots, some peas.
(10:07):
And so I would kind of go to her and ask her to make those dishes for me.
And they were always comfort foods.
Even to this day, you know, like when I make these recipes at home, I very much enjoythem.
But there's something quite special about my mom making it for me because there's herspecial touch, like the way she cuts vegetables, the way she seasons things.
(10:27):
So what was the first recipe that you wrote and tested?
So the first recipe that I wrote, I believe it's a recipe I wrote for a client.
I mentioned that there was a client that asked me to develop recipes and I had never doneit before.
And this client is Simple Mills.
It's a pretty big brand now in the US especially.
And they sent me their baking mixes and they asked me to develop some recipes with them.
(10:52):
I don't remember the first, first one, but it must have been one of their pizzas.
So I had to make the pizza crust and then add different ingredients on top and modifyingthem.
a little bit like cooking, for example, like some vegetables to put on top.
I think it was one of those.
It was more on the simpler side, but it allowed me to just gain a little bit of confidencein trying to develop the recipe and also writing a recipe, which is something that is very
(11:18):
much a skill.
Like people tend to think, you you just eyeball uh ingredients and the way you write it isnot very, there is very much a formula to writing recipes.
And I've learned this even more so with the years that I've been.
doing it, but in the early days I remember looking a lot at how other bloggers and recipewriters would write their recipes and try to replicate a little bit the format.
(11:41):
Assuming it's not too secret in terms of the way that you develop your recipes and how youfound that shorthand, can you tell me a story of how when you finally figured out your
shorthand to writing recipes, how did that feel?
Where were you?
And what was it like then to continue to develop recipes now that you had that shorthand?
(12:06):
So, a few years ago, I remember being on YouTube.
I'm a person who loves to learn through video content.
I find there's so much knowledge on YouTube.
And I was on YouTube and there was a person who was walking through how she developedrecipes and she mentioned a book called The Vegetarian Flavor Bible by Karen Page.
And I had never heard of it before.
(12:27):
And she was saying how the way the book works is kind of like a dictionary.
you have all, well, most...
fruits and vegetables and different ingredients that are in the book.
And if let's say you would look up beets, it would describe the flavor of beets and thenit would write under there would be all these pairings that beets pair well with.
(12:48):
And I ordered the book on Amazon right away when I learned about it because I thought itwas really a genius idea.
And then when I got it and I had to develop a recipe for a client, I went through thatprocess.
It was a client that had, uh it was like a blueberry company.
So
I looked up blueberries and then all of a sudden I have all these pairings that workreally well with blueberries, that complement blueberries.
(13:11):
it just, the recipe creation process became so much simpler in terms of thinking, okay,what can I add in?
What's an ingredient that maybe doesn't pair as well?
And ever since I've really relied on it a lot, especially when it comes to ingredients Imay be less familiar with or things, you know, when sometimes I want to create a recipe.
that maybe has been seen before, let's say a butternut squash soup, but I want it to be alittle bit unique.
(13:36):
I want it to have a bit of a twist.
I'll go into the book and look up butternut squash and then get myself inspired from that.
And then obviously like I paired that with just my experience of knowing, you know, basicrecipes of like how to make a good soup together, for example.
I feel like some people are listening to this and thinking, this is what I needed.
(13:59):
So tell me how you felt when all of a sudden you get this message where you were beingasked to submit a proposal for a book.
Tell me where you were and how did you feel when you got that message.
uh I was at my apartment.
It was just random.
(14:20):
I think it was like a day of the week, like Monday or Tuesday.
It was the afternoon.
I remember it very well because I have such a clear memory of the light coming in.
uh was in the kitchen.
The kitchen is very, very bright in the afternoon.
And yeah, I opened this email and I see this, you know, an email saying, you can writethis proposal.
(14:40):
And honestly, the feeling was very much disbelief.
oh
You know, it's like my brain didn't compute what was written in front of me.
And like immediately my brain went to like, wait, is this like a scam?
Is there, you know, like, is this real?
Because as much as I always felt deep down that at some point I would write a cookbook, itwas something that I almost didn't allow myself to dream of.
(15:06):
Just because like, you know, at the time when it happened, like it's not like my audiencewas huge.
compared to other people who are recipe creators, who have hundreds of thousands offollowers.
So I didn't want to dream too much of that because I felt like if it doesn't happen, I'llbe disappointed.
But I knew that eventually, when the time was right, it would.
And it just so happened that it was then, and it was just a wonderful feeling, incredible.
(15:32):
And then when I learned that I could have recipes that I grew up with featured in thebook, I felt ecstatic when I learned that.
I wanted the book to be very close to me and my heritage and my history and to be able tohave the opportunity to write that type of book was just, I was over the moon.
(15:52):
So you moved to Canada when you were eight years old.
And so with your dad being from the Congo and your mom having a very interestingbackground being Russian, Ukrainian, you've moved to Canada and now you're having all of
these influences of Canadian, of Canadian food and the Canadian heritage as well.
(16:19):
When you were conceptualizing your cookbook,
What was the through line that you wanted to have read through the cookbook or at leastmaybe it was a flavor.
not quite sure.
I'm just really interested to hear how you thought about conceptualizing it.
So initially, my very first idea about what I wanted the true light to be for the book waschildhood memories or memories in general, memories around food.
(16:46):
So I knew I wanted to feature recipes that had some sort of history.
Either it would be like recipes that are close to my cultural background, so like my mom'sheritage or my dad's heritage, or recipes that I kind of discovered along the way on my
food journey, or recipes even that
would be inspired by dishes I tried in Montreal, is, Montreal is like one of the mostmulticultural cities in Canada, if not the most.
(17:13):
So yeah, so that was initially the first thing.
And so when I put together the proposal for my book, I really wanted that, to put thatforward.
And so the first, mean, even like 50 to 60 recipes came to mind very quickly because Ihave very clear recipes that I, for me,
brings me back to memories, to moments in time, to dinners with families and friends.
(17:40):
I was researching you, there was this video that I saw where you made these rolls.
I forget the name of the rolls, but they were these lovely rolls where you chopped upgarlic and dill.
Oh yes, the pampushki.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh, good.
(18:00):
It's so good.
So tell me about the influence of the Pampu in your life growing up.
Interestingly, that's a recipe that kind of entered my family's culinary heritage muchlater.
It's not a recipe I necessarily grew up eating, but it's a recipe my mom used to eat whenshe was younger.
(18:20):
And when she introduced the recipe to our family, it just instantly became a classic.
There are these fluffy, super doughy dinner rolls.
pull apart and they're just...
When you have them right out of the oven, it's like...
heaven.
I had some like last week, the memory is very vivid right now in my mind.
(18:41):
And so it's the ultimate comfort food.
And it's a dish that at first it was, you know, within just my family and then slowly likewe introduced them to my husband, my husband, family, and now the recipes in the book and
like everyone can make them at home.
So yeah, it's a dish that's like ultimate comfort.
Well, I can't wait to meet you.
(19:01):
So my next question for you, writing a book and writing a cookbook is just no small feat.
So can you tell me about how long it took you from the proposal to when the book wasfinished, when your book review
birthed.
Yeah, it was four years.
(19:24):
Yeah, it was a really long time, but I was really, really, really lucky to work with ateam that really respected the fact that it would take me some time to put the book
together, to create the recipes and also shoot them because a lot of times many cookbooks,they're written by a person or a group of people and then they're shot by a photographer.
(19:46):
But because I did both, it took me.
quite a long time to put it together.
it took four years in the making.
And of course, there's like the whole process of uh going through the recipes andreviewing them, making sure it's written in the proper way, making sure it's consistent.
And also, before you mentioned what was the through line for the recipes, initially it wasthe childhood memories.
(20:11):
And then as I was working on the book, my editor offered for us to kind of modify it alittle bit.
so that the childhood memories would stay, but there would be an emphasis on the idea ofslow cooking and slowing down and enjoying the process of cooking.
So I had to kind of start incorporating that too through the book and like the headnotesand stuff so that it would be maybe a little bit more universal for readers.
(20:38):
you know, savoring the name of the book is a big part of my life.
uh just, it's so important to take time to slow down and enjoy the process of cooking.
So I have kind of a secret to share with you and that is I absolutely love, love cookingor at least I did.
(20:58):
And once upon a time I thought that was going to be my profession, that I was going to bea chef.
And this was before it was sexy to be a chef.
I absolutely love to cook, but having a family stripped that all away.
It's like it's gone.
Bye!
I don't enjoy it because there's like, it's more as if I am a lunch lady than someonewho's really thinking about food and thinking about how it tastes and what new things we
(21:27):
can do to it.
But I'm really like, I'm really inspired by your cookbook and inspired to slow downbecause I mean, you just had a baby.
And so you know, like once, once that happens, something changes because it makes youaware of how much
you're in charge of culture building and that the traditions that you have and lovingfood, food is an important part, you know, we all eat, but to really have the luxury to be
(21:59):
able to eat and to be able to choose to eat really delicious foods, that's something elsealtogether.
But in researching you and in talking with you, I'm so much more inspired to.
slow down and not necessarily think of food as utility.
Like just think of it as, just need to get this out.
(22:21):
I just need to make dinner instead of like, how can we all as a family come together toreconnect and to really savor the small and the little moments in our lives.
That really speaks to me, honestly.
And I can relate, although, you know, my baby is very, very young.
(22:41):
I already, you know, I could put myself in the shoes of so many people.
Like all of us, we have such busy lives, right?
We're always kind of multitasking, doing a million things at once.
And, you know, when the time comes for to prepare dinner, oftentimes we don't necessarilyhave a really long time.
And if you have kids and people, you know, everyone's hungry, you have to kind of putsomething quickly together.
And a big part in the book that
(23:03):
was important to me is to give little tips and tricks even for those like quick and easymeals on how you can slow down and savor.
For example, if you have your make it's like taco night, okay?
And then you're sauteing your onions and it's very easy to just be like, okay, sautequickly onto the next day and you know, get it, put it all together quickly.
I encourage the readers a lot to taste along the way.
(23:27):
And when you do taste, even if it takes a few extra seconds, that process of just like
pressing pause and being there and just tasting before you move on to the next step.
I think it does create that sense of slowing down, even though it's not like you're takingtwo hours to create a very elaborate meal.
And then on top of that, I do encourage people to, if you do have, let's say a weekendwhere you have like a bit more extra time and the kids are doing something and.
(23:56):
you have maybe two hours and you pick a recipe that you've been like eyeing or that youbookmark, you get the ingredients and you use that two hours to do it.
It doesn't have to be every week night.
It doesn't have to be even every weekend, but having like that intentionality and settingthose like little pockets of intentional cooking is amazing.
(24:16):
And you know, my baby is two months and I just had like one of those moments last nightwhere
She was with my husband and I had like an hour to cook and I was like, my God, I haven'thad this in so long.
And it was the best.
It was so nice.
And you know, it can't happen every day and that's okay.
But when it does happen, it's like, oh yes, I feel, you know, nourished to be able to dothat.
(24:39):
And then I think also other people feel that.
And then like with kids, you can tell them, you know, like I included this ingredient, canyou taste it?
And you know, it's kind of becomes part of the culture too, to be.
aware of the work that goes into food, the ingredients that are added, things like that.
That is also true.
That is so true.
Okay.
(24:59):
So your YouTube channel is so good.
It's so good.
I mean.
I need to get back on there.
Oh, well, what do you do?
You just had to, have to.
Things will happen as they do, but I like, I've, I didn't realize that this was going tobe, I'm so inspired by you Fest, but.
(25:19):
Oh, it's so great.
Cause I think you have this really wonderful way of being at ease in front of the camera.
And I think that also comes through your photography as well as through your.
your recipes that there's like a little bit of unfussiness that happens.
(25:40):
Is that a stylistic choice that you've made or is just like what you've let be?
think it just happened naturally.
Honestly, I think in terms of like the YouTube videos, I have watched so many YouTubevideos in the past.
so along the way, I got inspired by how people do things, how people kind of edit theirvideos, the different setups.
(26:04):
And, you know, I tweak that so that it represented me really well.
And uh yeah, that's kind of how it happened.
And even like with my photography, I, same way as with video, I
looked at so many other photographers and how they did things and how they set updifferent scenes and how they capture details.
(26:25):
And then I practiced and slowly but surely my own vision kind of came to life and Ideveloped my own style.
And now it's very, I'm very comfortable in just creating because I don't have to gothrough the thought process too much of like, how do I differentiate myself?
I'm already kind of comfortable with the aesthetic I've created through the years.
(26:47):
Thank you so much for coming on the show Muriel.
This has been quite a lot of fun.
I'm a big fan and so you know that I'll be sending you those photos of the book.
eh
Thank you so much, Roxy.
And honestly, it's been a pleasure.
been lovely chatting with you.
So Muriel's book, Savoring Meaningful Vegan Recipes from Across Oceans is availablewherever books are sold.
(27:15):
Maybe we'll do a giveaway of one of Muriel's books.
So stay tuned.
Thank you again, Muriel.
Thank you Matin, it's been lovely.
Hi there!
I have a quick favor to ask you before you go.
If you're loving this show, would you mind taking a quick second to leave us uh a 5-starreview on your favorite GoToPodcast app?
(27:42):
Here's the thing.
Those reviews are like magic fairy dust.
They help other creators of color discover our show and tap into their own artisticsuperpowers.
While you're at it, why not subscribe to our sub stack
newsletter Creative Matters.
Creative Matters is like a weekly dose of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.
(28:07):
You can find the link to subscribe in the show notes.
Alright, that's all that I have for you today.
I can't wait to see you on the next episode.
Bye!
Hi, this is Muriel Banakissa and this is how I create.
Welcome to This Is How We Create, a show that digs deeper into the creative life ofcontemporary artists of color.
Discover what feeds their creativity and how they found or are finding their artisticvoice.
Through these intimate and candid conversations, you'll gain insights into the lives ofcreative professionals of color that are hard to find anywhere else.
(00:25):
Welcome back to This Is How We Create.
My name is Martine Severin, your host.
If you have ever wanted a friend whose recipes and whose food and the way of cooking, andI'm quoting Sadiya Badei of Pick Up Limes, whose food gives you a burst and is filled with
international flavor, then Muriel Banakisa is the person for you.
(00:49):
If you flip through her latest book, Savoring, you will drool over the recipes inspired byher Congolese and Russian Ukrainian heritage.
And you know what, you might just not notice that everything in her cookbook is vegan.
If you're inspired to learn more, let me tell you a little bit about Murielle.
(01:11):
Murielle Banakisa is a food photographer, food stylist, and first time author of thecookbook, Savouring Meaningful Vegan Recipes from Across Oceans.
She's based in Montreal, Canada, and outside of spending
hours developing new recipes and shooting them in her home studio, Muriel loves gettinglost in good books.
(01:35):
She loves to journal and paint and sips on warm beverages.
Not necessarily while going on long walks, but she also enjoys a good long walk.
Muriel draws a lot of inspiration from the colors and the textures found in nature.
from water droplets to the sun shining through the leaves early in the morning and theorange glow of summer nights.
(02:00):
Muriel, I am so pleased to welcome you to the podcast.
Thank you so much, Martin, for having me.
It's really a pleasure to be here.
I found you first off through Pick Up Limes because I am a reformed vegetarian.
have never quite made it to veganism, but I have been making a few, a lot of vegan recipesactually.
(02:23):
And so I can't wait to get your book.
I've ordered it and it'll be in.
And once it comes, I'm really looking forward to sending you a snapshot of me holding it.
I can't wait to see that.
So I would love for you to start out by telling us a little bit about your childhoodmemories in having to do with food and perhaps also with creativity.
(02:49):
Yes, so I was born in the Republic of Congo in a small town called Pointe Noire.
And honestly, like when I think back of my earliest years, there was so much food andcreativity infused in my days.
In terms of food, one of my earliest memories of food was going to church with my familyand then coming back.
(03:09):
And then my family and their friends would have like these get togethers where everybodywould bring different dishes that they liked and was kind of like this big potluck.
I just love that.
I love the texture, I love the colors and food has always been like something that reallydraws me in.
Most people really, really love food, but from a very young age, I remember like lovingfood.
(03:31):
So that's the food part.
And then in terms of the creativity, my parents made it kind of a point to have me be partof creative activities.
So I used to take painting classes when I was in Congo, which I really, really loved.
I also did a bit of ballet when I was a kid.
That didn't really work out super well.
I was a little too bossy.
I was like bossing the other kids around, but I still really enjoyed it and I loveddancing.
(03:57):
And actually, fun fact, one of my first photo shoots was me dressing up my Barbies andthen putting them on the sofa and taking pictures of them, I'm guessing with a disposable
camera.
And I still have these pictures at home at my mom's place.
And so it started pretty early on because
We left Africa when I was eight years old.
So this happened before I was eight years old.
(04:18):
And then it took many years before I kind of reconnected with my passion for photography.
But creativity was always a big part of my life from a really early age.
When you left Africa, did your family move directly to Moray?
Yeah, yeah, we all came together and we've been in Montreal ever since.
It's been 22 years now that we've been in Montreal.
(04:41):
And uh yeah, so we've always been here since two decades now.
oh
studied, I believe, business as well as marketing in school.
Now all throughout your schooling and in growing up, were you taking photographs at all?
Oh yeah, very much so.
I was always the friend that had the camera who would bring them to little get togethers.
(05:06):
I had a lot of fun just editing pictures.
In the early days, I remember one of my first editing software that I used was Vesco.
I don't know if you remember that.
It was the app on the phone and I used to love playing with the filters and all that.
And food too.
I loved throughout my schooling to just...
tried different recipes, especially on the weekends.
(05:28):
That was always kind of like my precious time to make desserts for my family, try out newthings, research the internet, look through cookbooks to cook for my family.
So it's both have always been a big part of my life.
And it's only later in my life that I merged kind of the two passions together.
That was towards the end of my university schooling that it happened.
(05:50):
Tell me a little bit about how your love of food and becoming a vegan really spurred youon this journey to cooking and to eventually to your cookbook.
Yeah, it's uh honestly, it really happened organically, like many things in life.
I never really thought it would, all these two passions would bring me to where I am todayand having this cookbook.
(06:14):
But initially, because as I mentioned, I love cooking and I used to like editing photos.
And I noticed this little trend on social media where people were taking like pictures ofthe food and then sharing that.
And I started doing that as well.
At that point, I already had a DSLR camera because I
just enjoyed taking photos of like family moments, things like that.
(06:34):
And that's how the passion really ignited.
And then I was offered the opportunity to shoot for a friend of mine who had this icecream company.
And I started taking pictures for his company.
And that was kind of the first time I realized, okay, like this is a thing, like I can dothis as like, you know, a way to make money.
And I was kind of in a, at a crossroads where I was ending school and not really sure whatthe next step was.
(06:58):
So I tried that and it took off.
And then I started developing recipes for companies as well.
So again, that was a job I didn't really know existed.
And the first contract I got doing that, I was just like, how are they asking me to dothis?
Like, this is kind of crazy.
And I was really worried and stressed to do it, but I accepted.
(07:19):
And it ended up being like one of the best decisions of my life because it really trainedme in creating my own recipes and not just executing recipes that I found online.
And then I started sharing these recipes on my blog, taking more photos for myself as wellas for clients.
And at some point I got contacted by Appetite, which is an imprint of Penguin RandomHouse.
(07:43):
And they said, you know, we've seen your work, we like your pictures, we like what youhave to say, and we would love for you to write a proposal for our cookbook.
And that was in 2021, I think.
I'm so mixed up a little bit with the dates, but I think it was 2021.
And the proposal was accepted and there I was on that journey of creating my cookbook.
(08:04):
gosh, okay, so I want to bring us back a little bit and then we'll get to the cookbook.
So Chicago, because I live in Chicago, Chicago is a big food photography town.
And I remember you just saying now that you were asked to photograph ice cream.
I don't think anybody understands how hard it is to photograph ice cream.
(08:24):
yes it is.
It's so tough.
It's really hard.
oh
It's really hard.
I think looking at your YouTube, looking at your Instagram and your website, it's allreally beautiful.
But I don't think anybody understands just how hard it is to do what it is that you do.
I'd love for us to go back a little bit and think about when you went to college,university, as you would say it probably in Canada.
(08:53):
What were the foods that you would call back home wanting the recipe for wanting to learnmore about how your mom cooked this or cook that and tell us about how you felt if you
indeed would call her wanting those foods that really made you feel like home.
What's really interesting is that I, it's a really good question that you're askingbecause I never really asked myself, what was that transition of me eating the food from
(09:21):
my mom cooking it and me actually making the food myself?
Because that, interestingly, in university and even like many years afterwards, thesecomfort foods were foods that I would go to my mom for her to feed us because she always
knew like the exact measurement.
My mind doesn't measure.
anything, so was going to say measurements, but really it's, you know, eyeballing and justthe expertise of making the same recipe over and over again.
(09:46):
And so I would go to her to make things like, for example, my mom's borscht, which is likea classic Russian Ukrainian soup that's made with beets and potatoes, has some cabbage and
also like the Olivier salad, which is kind of like, well, it is a potato salad, but allthe vegetables in it are much smaller in terms of like a chop.
There's some carrots, some peas.
(10:07):
And so I would kind of go to her and ask her to make those dishes for me.
And they were always comfort foods.
Even to this day, you know, like when I make these recipes at home, I very much enjoythem.
But there's something quite special about my mom making it for me because there's herspecial touch, like the way she cuts vegetables, the way she seasons things.
(10:27):
So what was the first recipe that you wrote and tested?
So the first recipe that I wrote, I believe it's a recipe I wrote for a client.
I mentioned that there was a client that asked me to develop recipes and I had never doneit before.
And this client is Simple Mills.
It's a pretty big brand now in the US especially.
And they sent me their baking mixes and they asked me to develop some recipes with them.
(10:52):
I don't remember the first, first one, but it must have been one of their pizzas.
So I had to make the pizza crust and then add different ingredients on top and modifyingthem.
a little bit like cooking, for example, like some vegetables to put on top.
I think it was one of those.
It was more on the simpler side, but it allowed me to just gain a little bit of confidencein trying to develop the recipe and also writing a recipe, which is something that is very
(11:18):
much a skill.
Like people tend to think, you you just eyeball uh ingredients and the way you write it isnot very, there is very much a formula to writing recipes.
And I've learned this even more so with the years that I've been.
doing it, but in the early days I remember looking a lot at how other bloggers and recipewriters would write their recipes and try to replicate a little bit the format.
(11:41):
Assuming it's not too secret in terms of the way that you develop your recipes and how youfound that shorthand, can you tell me a story of how when you finally figured out your
shorthand to writing recipes, how did that feel?
Where were you?
And what was it like then to continue to develop recipes now that you had that shorthand?
(12:06):
So, a few years ago, I remember being on YouTube.
I'm a person who loves to learn through video content.
I find there's so much knowledge on YouTube.
And I was on YouTube and there was a person who was walking through how she developedrecipes and she mentioned a book called The Vegetarian Flavor Bible by Karen Page.
And I had never heard of it before.
(12:27):
And she was saying how the way the book works is kind of like a dictionary.
you have all, well, most...
fruits and vegetables and different ingredients that are in the book.
And if let's say you would look up beets, it would describe the flavor of beets and thenit would write under there would be all these pairings that beets pair well with.
(12:48):
And I ordered the book on Amazon right away when I learned about it because I thought itwas really a genius idea.
And then when I got it and I had to develop a recipe for a client, I went through thatprocess.
It was a client that had, uh it was like a blueberry company.
So
I looked up blueberries and then all of a sudden I have all these pairings that workreally well with blueberries, that complement blueberries.
(13:11):
it just, the recipe creation process became so much simpler in terms of thinking, okay,what can I add in?
What's an ingredient that maybe doesn't pair as well?
And ever since I've really relied on it a lot, especially when it comes to ingredients Imay be less familiar with or things, you know, when sometimes I want to create a recipe.
that maybe has been seen before, let's say a butternut squash soup, but I want it to be alittle bit unique.
(13:36):
I want it to have a bit of a twist.
I'll go into the book and look up butternut squash and then get myself inspired from that.
And then obviously like I paired that with just my experience of knowing, you know, basicrecipes of like how to make a good soup together, for example.
I feel like some people are listening to this and thinking, this is what I needed.
(13:59):
So tell me how you felt when all of a sudden you get this message where you were beingasked to submit a proposal for a book.
Tell me where you were and how did you feel when you got that message.
uh I was at my apartment.
It was just random.
(14:20):
I think it was like a day of the week, like Monday or Tuesday.
It was the afternoon.
I remember it very well because I have such a clear memory of the light coming in.
uh was in the kitchen.
The kitchen is very, very bright in the afternoon.
And yeah, I opened this email and I see this, you know, an email saying, you can writethis proposal.
(14:40):
And honestly, the feeling was very much disbelief.
oh
You know, it's like my brain didn't compute what was written in front of me.
And like immediately my brain went to like, wait, is this like a scam?
Is there, you know, like, is this real?
Because as much as I always felt deep down that at some point I would write a cookbook, itwas something that I almost didn't allow myself to dream of.
(15:06):
Just because like, you know, at the time when it happened, like it's not like my audiencewas huge.
compared to other people who are recipe creators, who have hundreds of thousands offollowers.
So I didn't want to dream too much of that because I felt like if it doesn't happen, I'llbe disappointed.
But I knew that eventually, when the time was right, it would.
And it just so happened that it was then, and it was just a wonderful feeling, incredible.
(15:32):
And then when I learned that I could have recipes that I grew up with featured in thebook, I felt ecstatic when I learned that.
I wanted the book to be very close to me and my heritage and my history and to be able tohave the opportunity to write that type of book was just, I was over the moon.
(15:52):
So you moved to Canada when you were eight years old.
And so with your dad being from the Congo and your mom having a very interestingbackground being Russian, Ukrainian, you've moved to Canada and now you're having all of
these influences of Canadian, of Canadian food and the Canadian heritage as well.
(16:19):
When you were conceptualizing your cookbook,
What was the through line that you wanted to have read through the cookbook or at leastmaybe it was a flavor.
not quite sure.
I'm just really interested to hear how you thought about conceptualizing it.
So initially, my very first idea about what I wanted the true light to be for the book waschildhood memories or memories in general, memories around food.
(16:46):
So I knew I wanted to feature recipes that had some sort of history.
Either it would be like recipes that are close to my cultural background, so like my mom'sheritage or my dad's heritage, or recipes that I kind of discovered along the way on my
food journey, or recipes even that
would be inspired by dishes I tried in Montreal, is, Montreal is like one of the mostmulticultural cities in Canada, if not the most.
(17:13):
So yeah, so that was initially the first thing.
And so when I put together the proposal for my book, I really wanted that, to put thatforward.
And so the first, mean, even like 50 to 60 recipes came to mind very quickly because Ihave very clear recipes that I, for me,
brings me back to memories, to moments in time, to dinners with families and friends.
(17:40):
I was researching you, there was this video that I saw where you made these rolls.
I forget the name of the rolls, but they were these lovely rolls where you chopped upgarlic and dill.
Oh yes, the pampushki.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh, good.
(18:00):
It's so good.
So tell me about the influence of the Pampu in your life growing up.
Interestingly, that's a recipe that kind of entered my family's culinary heritage muchlater.
It's not a recipe I necessarily grew up eating, but it's a recipe my mom used to eat whenshe was younger.
(18:20):
And when she introduced the recipe to our family, it just instantly became a classic.
There are these fluffy, super doughy dinner rolls.
pull apart and they're just...
When you have them right out of the oven, it's like...
heaven.
I had some like last week, the memory is very vivid right now in my mind.
(18:41):
And so it's the ultimate comfort food.
And it's a dish that at first it was, you know, within just my family and then slowly likewe introduced them to my husband, my husband, family, and now the recipes in the book and
like everyone can make them at home.
So yeah, it's a dish that's like ultimate comfort.
Well, I can't wait to meet you.
(19:01):
So my next question for you, writing a book and writing a cookbook is just no small feat.
So can you tell me about how long it took you from the proposal to when the book wasfinished, when your book review
birthed.
Yeah, it was four years.
(19:24):
Yeah, it was a really long time, but I was really, really, really lucky to work with ateam that really respected the fact that it would take me some time to put the book
together, to create the recipes and also shoot them because a lot of times many cookbooks,they're written by a person or a group of people and then they're shot by a photographer.
(19:46):
But because I did both, it took me.
quite a long time to put it together.
it took four years in the making.
And of course, there's like the whole process of uh going through the recipes andreviewing them, making sure it's written in the proper way, making sure it's consistent.
And also, before you mentioned what was the through line for the recipes, initially it wasthe childhood memories.
(20:11):
And then as I was working on the book, my editor offered for us to kind of modify it alittle bit.
so that the childhood memories would stay, but there would be an emphasis on the idea ofslow cooking and slowing down and enjoying the process of cooking.
So I had to kind of start incorporating that too through the book and like the headnotesand stuff so that it would be maybe a little bit more universal for readers.
(20:38):
you know, savoring the name of the book is a big part of my life.
uh just, it's so important to take time to slow down and enjoy the process of cooking.
So I have kind of a secret to share with you and that is I absolutely love, love cookingor at least I did.
(20:58):
And once upon a time I thought that was going to be my profession, that I was going to bea chef.
And this was before it was sexy to be a chef.
I absolutely love to cook, but having a family stripped that all away.
It's like it's gone.
Bye!
I don't enjoy it because there's like, it's more as if I am a lunch lady than someonewho's really thinking about food and thinking about how it tastes and what new things we
(21:27):
can do to it.
But I'm really like, I'm really inspired by your cookbook and inspired to slow downbecause I mean, you just had a baby.
And so you know, like once, once that happens, something changes because it makes youaware of how much
you're in charge of culture building and that the traditions that you have and lovingfood, food is an important part, you know, we all eat, but to really have the luxury to be
(21:59):
able to eat and to be able to choose to eat really delicious foods, that's something elsealtogether.
But in researching you and in talking with you, I'm so much more inspired to.
slow down and not necessarily think of food as utility.
Like just think of it as, just need to get this out.
(22:21):
I just need to make dinner instead of like, how can we all as a family come together toreconnect and to really savor the small and the little moments in our lives.
That really speaks to me, honestly.
And I can relate, although, you know, my baby is very, very young.
(22:41):
I already, you know, I could put myself in the shoes of so many people.
Like all of us, we have such busy lives, right?
We're always kind of multitasking, doing a million things at once.
And, you know, when the time comes for to prepare dinner, oftentimes we don't necessarilyhave a really long time.
And if you have kids and people, you know, everyone's hungry, you have to kind of putsomething quickly together.
And a big part in the book that
(23:03):
was important to me is to give little tips and tricks even for those like quick and easymeals on how you can slow down and savor.
For example, if you have your make it's like taco night, okay?
And then you're sauteing your onions and it's very easy to just be like, okay, sautequickly onto the next day and you know, get it, put it all together quickly.
I encourage the readers a lot to taste along the way.
(23:27):
And when you do taste, even if it takes a few extra seconds, that process of just like
pressing pause and being there and just tasting before you move on to the next step.
I think it does create that sense of slowing down, even though it's not like you're takingtwo hours to create a very elaborate meal.
And then on top of that, I do encourage people to, if you do have, let's say a weekendwhere you have like a bit more extra time and the kids are doing something and.
(23:56):
you have maybe two hours and you pick a recipe that you've been like eyeing or that youbookmark, you get the ingredients and you use that two hours to do it.
It doesn't have to be every week night.
It doesn't have to be even every weekend, but having like that intentionality and settingthose like little pockets of intentional cooking is amazing.
(24:16):
And you know, my baby is two months and I just had like one of those moments last nightwhere
She was with my husband and I had like an hour to cook and I was like, my God, I haven'thad this in so long.
And it was the best.
It was so nice.
And you know, it can't happen every day and that's okay.
But when it does happen, it's like, oh yes, I feel, you know, nourished to be able to dothat.
(24:39):
And then I think also other people feel that.
And then like with kids, you can tell them, you know, like I included this ingredient, canyou taste it?
And you know, it's kind of becomes part of the culture too, to be.
aware of the work that goes into food, the ingredients that are added, things like that.
That is also true.
That is so true.
Okay.
(24:59):
So your YouTube channel is so good.
It's so good.
I mean.
I need to get back on there.
Oh, well, what do you do?
You just had to, have to.
Things will happen as they do, but I like, I've, I didn't realize that this was going tobe, I'm so inspired by you Fest, but.
(25:19):
Oh, it's so great.
Cause I think you have this really wonderful way of being at ease in front of the camera.
And I think that also comes through your photography as well as through your.
your recipes that there's like a little bit of unfussiness that happens.
(25:40):
Is that a stylistic choice that you've made or is just like what you've let be?
think it just happened naturally.
Honestly, I think in terms of like the YouTube videos, I have watched so many YouTubevideos in the past.
so along the way, I got inspired by how people do things, how people kind of edit theirvideos, the different setups.
(26:04):
And, you know, I tweak that so that it represented me really well.
And uh yeah, that's kind of how it happened.
And even like with my photography, I, same way as with video, I
looked at so many other photographers and how they did things and how they set updifferent scenes and how they capture details.
(26:25):
And then I practiced and slowly but surely my own vision kind of came to life and Ideveloped my own style.
And now it's very, I'm very comfortable in just creating because I don't have to gothrough the thought process too much of like, how do I differentiate myself?
I'm already kind of comfortable with the aesthetic I've created through the years.
(26:47):
Thank you so much for coming on the show Muriel.
This has been quite a lot of fun.
I'm a big fan and so you know that I'll be sending you those photos of the book.
eh
Thank you so much, Roxy.
And honestly, it's been a pleasure.
been lovely chatting with you.
So Muriel's book, Savoring Meaningful Vegan Recipes from Across Oceans is availablewherever books are sold.
(27:15):
Maybe we'll do a giveaway of one of Muriel's books.
So stay tuned.
Thank you again, Muriel.
Thank you Matin, it's been lovely.
Hi there!
I have a quick favor to ask you before you go.
If you're loving this show, would you mind taking a quick second to leave us uh a 5-starreview on your favorite GoToPodcast app?
(27:42):
Here's the thing.
Those reviews are like magic fairy dust.
They help other creators of color discover our show and tap into their own artisticsuperpowers.
While you're at it, why not subscribe to our sub stack
newsletter Creative Matters.
Creative Matters is like a weekly dose of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.
(28:07):
You can find the link to subscribe in the show notes.
Alright, that's all that I have for you today.
I can't wait to see you on the next episode.
Bye!
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