All Episodes

July 24, 2025 42 mins

Sometimes the job you’ve worked hard for breaks your spirit.  In this episode, I chat with interior designer Courtney Robinson. 

 

Courtney shares her winding journey from a childhood dream of acting to studying design at Howard University to navigating the harsh realities of the New York design world. 

 

Courtney opens up about the pivotal moments that urged her to leave the corporate path and to create her studio. Today, Materials and Methods Design is an inclusive space built on mentorship and authentic collaboration. 

 

Courtney’s journey is a powerful story about resilience, redefining success, and about the courage it takes to build a creative life that truly aligns with your soul.

 

Chapters

 

00:00 Introduction to the Creative Journey

02:57 From Acting to Interior Design: A Shift in Passion

06:05 The Role of Family in Creative Pursuits

08:54 Navigating the Early Career Landscape

11:44 Experiences of Racism and Gatekeeping in the Industry

23:29 Founding Materials and Methods Design

30:43 Defining Success: A Personal Evolution




Connect with Courtney:

 

Follow Courtney on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/materialsmethodsdesign

Courtney’s website: https://www.materialsmethodsdesign.com/

 

Support the Show

Website: www.martineseverin.com

Follow on Instagram: @martine.severin | @thisishowwecreate_

Subscribe to the Newsletter: www.martineseverin.substack.com

 

This is How We Create is produced by Martine Severin. This episode was edited by Daniel Espinosa.

 

  • Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts

  • Leave a review

  • Follow us on social media

  • Share with fellow creatives

 

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to This is How We Create, a show that digs deeper into the creative life ofcontemporary artists of color.
Discover what feeds their creativity and how they found or are finding their artisticvoice.
Through these intimate and candid conversations, you'll gain insights into the lives ofcreative professionals of color that are hard to find anywhere else.

(00:23):
How are you?
I'm good.
Can you hear me okay?
Yes, it's so nice to meet you.
I've been admiring your work.
So it's a treat.
Thank you.
you.
It's a treat.
And I was reading your bio and I was like, she's been like, she's been in this industryfor a good minute.
uh Yeah, it's actually sometimes it's crazy to realize like how old I am and I've beendoing this literally like straight out of college and that it has been that long.

(00:55):
It's crazy to think about that.
But yeah, I've been it's been almost 15 years.
So, I mean, this is really, I'm really looking forward to this because there were a lot ofprint interviews of you, but I didn't find any audio interviews unless I wasn't looking
hard enough.

(01:15):
I'm excited about this, by the way.
I just want you to know, like, this is such a pleasure to be here and just to know that umpeople outside of my direct hemisphere are like seeing and also just being impacted by my
work.
So this is a real pleasure and a real treat to also be here and just to be able to talkabout that journey with someone else.
Are you kidding?
I always tell people they don't realize.

(01:37):
I tell people, I know that you talk about mental health and I'm happy to chat about thattoday.
um But I always say that you have fans, you have a cheerleading squad and you just don'tknow it.
Right, right.
Isn't that like the beauty of the internet though?
Like there are so many crazy things that we all can talk about that we defies about theinternet.

(02:02):
But I think that that is one of the silver linings of it.
That your reach just expands to people that you don't interact with on a day to day basisor that you don't see, but that have come across you and discovered you and seen you in
some way, either because they were searching for it or because it was brought to them,just because simply because of their interests.

(02:22):
oh
So true.
I have to reflect on that from time to time, just to remind myself, you know?
Yeah, because we give so much focus to the naysayers and to the negative nancies.
Yeah.
Wow.
Absolutely.
Okay, so let's get this party going.
Such a random story though, right?

(02:43):
Like that's really, I still to this day when people ask me about like studying interiordesign at Howard, I'm like, I still don't remember like what switch went off in my brain
that was like, oh, I'm not gonna be an actress anymore.
I don't wanna do this.
Like this is actually not what I wanna do.
Yeah, I don't, I still don't know.

(03:04):
had it, so I will say this, I did start realizing that I didn't want to be famous.
So that realization started playing into mind.
It wasn't necessarily that I didn't want to act, but I started thinking about like, I grewup in LA and I was like, I don't...
So you wanted to be Halle Berry and Julia Roberts was going to be.
You went to a performing high school.
Yeah, I went to performing arts high school.

(03:26):
I auditioned in the eighth grade.
Me and my best friend auditioned together.
Did she?
She did.
We got in together.
She was a dance major and I was a theater major.
We were like, we're going to be famous.
Like it was it.
Yeah.
And she, honestly, she went on to continue dancing.
She's no longer with us, but she went on to continue dancing.

(03:47):
Um, yeah, tragic.
Um, crazy that I won't talk about cause then I'll get emotional and I don't want to but.
Yeah, we auditioned together, best friends since we were five years old.
um I always wanted to be an actress and she was always a dancer.
So the community theater class that I joined, she was also a part of that.

(04:08):
So we had done plays at church together.
We were on the dance team at church together.
um We were in this community theater class and we did all of these things together.
And so once...
I, we were in the seventh grade, I think, and we started thinking about high school.

(04:28):
And so we were just kind of like, listen, we have never gone to actual school together.
We've been best friends our whole lives.
Like high school is the time where we like want to experience that together.
So we conspired like amongst ourselves um to apply to the performing arts high school inLA County.

(04:48):
And I knew that one existed because my oldest sister that I was telling you about um thatis a professional actress, she went to the Orange County High School for Performing Arts.
So I knew that LA had one.
We looked it up the whole nine.
We saw that we needed to like do these auditions and all this stuff.
So we both applied without telling our parents.
Like we just applied to the school.

(05:09):
So yeah, I was, I was a very independent.
I've always been extremely independent and
There's backstory to why I even just applied to the school, but I knew that I didn't wantto go to high school in my district.
We wanted to go to school together.
So we applied to these schools, we get our auditions, and that's when I told my mom, I waslike, hey mom, so I applied to Laksa and um they said that I got an audition, like, so can

(05:40):
I go?
And, know, of course then I have to explain to her like, what's Laksa?
Remember, Debrion went to like OSHA, it's the Performing Arts School.
Me and Stacey applied together.
We both really want to go.
We got auditioned.
So like, can I go?
And my mom always supported, honestly, she has supported my creative journey my wholelife.
She has never been a naysayer.

(06:00):
She's just been like, if this is what you love and this is what you want to do, sure,we'll figure it out.
So we went to the auditions and we got in.
We got into the school.
And so we're like, my God, we're going to high school.
we're going to LA performing art.
It's like, my, like this is happening.
Like this is real life.
Like I'm going to be an actress and you're going to be a dancer.
And so we ended up not staying at the school.

(06:23):
We actually both transferred from that school to a regular high school um in the Lakewoodarea.
So while we were in school there, we just, it wasn't regular high school.
It was block schedule.
It was mostly about being a professional actress or dancer, visual artist, whatever.
musician, whatever you were there and your concentration was.

(06:43):
And so we just felt like we weren't getting the full high school experience.
We were like, we're not going to ever go to dances.
Like they have one prom, like prom is the only dance they have.
We don't have a team.
Like there's just, we're not getting the full, like we want to go to dances and go togames.
Like we want to do stuff like that.
So we were like, although this is amazing and this is fun, let's go to regular highschool.

(07:05):
So we decided again, we're going to go to high school together.
figured all that.
you know, all the logistics stuff out with our parents and then we transfer to our highschool and we were both so actively involved in the musical theater program.
Every single play, fall and spring, we were both in it.
Chorus, she was like leading the dance.

(07:25):
I was doing this and that.
I'm being, you know, being the actress on the stage.
So that was, that was pre us going into like creative professions.
As you were chatting, I could see it being a Netflix series.
It sounds beautiful.
And I could see the time, you know, that when you decide to switch schools, that it feelscrazy, but then a whole new cast of character comes in.

(07:53):
Literally like, fuck, fuck.
Like everything changed.
You can sell this to Netflix.
You know, if I was a writer, I probably could turn this into a little drama series, but...
Oh, it would be like my so-called life, but...
my God.
my gosh.
We always used to say before reality TV was a thing though that we're like if cameras likefollowed us around, I'll be so crazy.

(08:23):
But it sounds like such an amazing and rich and special time that you had in your lives.
And you were just, and you made it all happen.
Yeah.
The fondest of memories, um even thinking back to it and kind of like going back to thebeginning of just what I guess I could say is my professional like artistic career.

(08:48):
It's crazy to see that that actually was something that has just been flooding in me sinceadolescence.
Even when I was kind of just thinking about our conversation and reflecting, you know,
You don't often kind of think about like, like how did I decide to do this or how did Iget here?
You know, like what is my journey?

(09:09):
What is my creative journey?
And how has that played into like my current experience and, you know, just other livedexperiences that I've had.
And so I really did go back and I was like, this has been my whole life.
This, my artistic journey has honestly been my entire life in different ebbs and flows andin various iterations, but.

(09:30):
my entire life has absolutely been an artistic experience and journey.
Is your sister still acting?
Yes.
So my oldest sister is currently on a cruise right now.
So she actually is, um, she mostly sings.
So she is an actress, but she does musical theater.
So her voice is angelic.

(09:50):
She is the best singer like in the world in all honesty.
Um, she just finished before she went on this cruise, she just finished a play in the SanDiego area.
ran the entire summer and she.
played Whitney Houston and she was, mean, everyone coming to the show was just like, thefact that you're like in local theater right now, blowing down Whitney's catalog in this

(10:18):
musical is crazy.
Yeah, so she is still a professional singer.
So she honestly just tours around, she enjoys traveling.
So really for her being, she's...
She's worked around the world at various places, but right now she is on Princess CruiseLine and she's like the headliner, like songs, but then she's got her chorus in the back,

(10:42):
she's got her dance, she's killing it.
And then my middle sister, ah Leslie, is also a creative.
She is a content creator.
um She studied marketing.
Marketing and PR was like her niche and she has turned that into uh being a, she's turnedthat into a lifestyle brand and is a lifestyle content creator.
So all of us are creative.

(11:04):
can only imagine what it's like when the three of you get together.
Jokes that yes, we're also all very goofy.
But yeah, my whole family in all honesty is creative though.
Like it's it's really in my genes.
Your mom as well?
My mom is creative.

(11:24):
My mom wanted to go to school for graphic design.
She used to tell me and my sister about it all the time.
She did not end up going to college.
She just started working, but she was into graphic design, drawing.
My grandfather was a carpenter.
I have a cousin who is a furniture designer.
He lives in Los Angeles here with me.
We talk all the time, but he makes wood furniture.

(11:47):
A few of my cousins can draw.
Everyone has like at least the ability to like create.
One of my uncles is an actual painter.
That's what he does for a living.
One of his daughters is a costume designer.
um It's really just like in our bloodline that we are creative people.
We're tactile.

(12:07):
So you go to Howard and you decide that you're not going to follow theater, that you'renot going to go into that world.
And what were you studying at Howard before you found interior design?
So I actually came into the program as a freshman.

(12:29):
ah I found the major online, so I knew that I was going to study interior design.
I just wasn't fully sure of what that would entail.
ah In my mind, I thought that I would probably be doing a little bit more architecture,but because I hadn't really been exposed to either profession, I went in on an interior

(12:51):
design journey because I knew it would be a more artistic path.
Um, but probably a little easier to switch, et cetera.
So I went into how we're as, as an interior designer, was like, Hey, like freshman year,I'm going to be an interior designer.
So you bit the bug, you got the bug, um you got trained very well at Howard and fromthere, where did you go once you graduated?

(13:20):
Graduated Howard, was my internship at Knoll.
I was interning at Knoll for a couple of years.
Knoll is a furniture design behemoth now in the world.
um I wanted to be a furniture designer.
By the end of my journey throughout Howard, um I really took on the bug of designing andmaking furniture.

(13:44):
uh We had one class there where we take furniture design one and two.
And so while I'm taking other interior design classes, I start taking furniture design andthe professor who was teaching furniture design was a professional furniture, um I would
say designer maker salesman.
So one of my courses, you have to take a couple of internships while you work at Howard.

(14:10):
And so I started my first one as a sophomore and I was interning with this professor.
So he taught me, I got to make a couple of pieces of furniture throughout this uminternship.
And so I was like, wow, I think this is a course that I would really love to kind ofpursue.
Like I'm working with my hands again, I'm making things.

(14:31):
I didn't even think that this was like an option to do.
um And so as I matriculate through Howard, get an internship at Knoll um as a junior.
And I was...
Coming in very inspired by um Florence Noll was a huge inspiration of mine, just as I wasgoing through school and studying.

(14:54):
And also Harry Bortoya, just, I was very awestruck by just the things that were coming outof their studio.
And so I started working there and towards the end of that internship, they offered me ajob in sales.
And I was like,
I was kind of wanting to be a furniture designer here.

(15:15):
Like I wasn't really, or like work in the textile department.
Like I didn't really want to like be a salesman.
And I knew that being in DC, that if I did sales, I would pretty much just be doinggovernment jobs, essentially.
I would probably make amazing money, but I knew what that meant.
So I had a side job in DC while I was working as well.

(15:38):
I worked at like a furniture clothing boutique.
It was like a fusion of the two.
was, there were not a couple, was a pair of best friends.
They had opened this high-end boutique in the middle of DC, like straight off the runway,like ready to wear couture fashions.
And the gentleman, Christopher, represented a furniture designer named Kenneth Cobonpue.

(16:02):
He is still an active furniture designer now.
He's a Filipino gentleman.
He makes immaculate modern organic furniture.
So I'm working there part-time.
I'm working at Nol.
The internship ends and I'm like, okay, all the jobs that I wanted to work at Knoll arelocated in New York.
They made that very clear.
They were like, we don't do any of that stuff here.

(16:25):
So those jobs are not necessarily open right now.
I wasn't seeing them on the website.
So I'm like, what am I going to do?
I need a job.
I need to make a living, but I can tell that I need to go to New York.
Like New York is where...
it's going to happen for me.
You know, I'm not hearing about or, or seeing a lot of opportunities in Los Angeles.

(16:47):
And so going home is probably not the right answer either.
So while I'm working at the boutique, I got really close with one of the owners.
name is Vici.
I still keep in contact with her to this day.
I love her.
She was trying to open a boutique in New York.
And so there was a woman that works there.
name is Dale.
Dale is amazing as well.
have to shout her out.

(17:07):
She.
was just an OG fashion designer, but had taken the route of small boutique kind ofstylist.
And so although she was my coworker, she also was V-chef's partner on the fashion side.
So did a lot of the buying, they went to fashion shows.
This was very up close and personal with a fashion professional.
I was like, this is crazy.

(17:28):
This is on 14th Street and U Street in D.C.
If you know D.C.
during 2008,
Ustream 14.
It's like, what?
Hi, I'm Bupi, ready to wear a couture.
What are you talking about?
So it was just crazy to be that up and personal with them.
So anyway, I was talking to Dale a lot about being a senior in college and not knowingwhat I was going to do next.

(17:55):
Just like, Dale, is like, what do I do?
Like, I know what I want to do, but I don't know how to get there, how to navigate this.
And so being Vichy's friend, she kind of started
talking to Vici and coaxing her into like, well, you're trying to open a boutique in NewYork.
You're gonna need staff.
Courtney already works here.

(18:15):
um And so why don't you send her to New York?
Like send her to New York to work in the boutique.
She already works here.
You trust her.
You really like her.
She's 22, 23.
Like I'm not moving to New York.
I'm 45 years old.
I have a family.
Like I'm not going and I wanna be in DC.
This is where my clients are.
but she's young and she's hungry.

(18:36):
She already works here.
You can train her.
She can run the store, blah, blah.
So that's what happened.
Vichy's like, do you want to go to New York?
In this conversation, my whole life changed.
She looks at me and she's like, do you want to go to New York?
And I looked at Dale and Dale just kind of did that like blackly head nod, like, do youwant to go to New York?

(18:56):
Ha ha!
And I just looked back at Bish and I was like, meh.
Go!
uh
I was like, oh my God.
So when I left work that day, I called my mom and I was like, mom, I'm moving to New York.
And she was like, not.
Absolutely not.

(19:17):
And I was like, no, I'm moving to New York.
Vici's sending me to New York.
She's opening a store.
This is my chance.
This is my chance.
Like I gotta go.
So I went, I went and that's how I ended up in New York.
And then obviously I've
I worked at the boutique to start up in maybe a year and a half into working there.
I I hit the ground running.

(19:39):
I was applying to every design firm known to man.
Every single design firm you could think of.
was just applying, putting in applications, going on interviews, not getting the jobs.
Um, all while working at this fashion boutique at the same time.
Um, it was, yeah, it was crazy.
So that was my road up to landing a job at Tom Palisha.

(20:00):
That must have been tough though.
um Where were you living at the time in New York?
I was living in Brooklyn.
um I was renting a room in a duplex.
um I had three roommates that I did not know before I moved there.
It was a very tough, tough time in life, to be honest with you.

(20:21):
And I found my apartment on Craigslist.
I remember this also vividly, right?
Because the opportunity came, but a path to that opportunity did not come.
This is not a company that said, we're going to relocate you.
Like, you know, here are your relocation fees.
This is how you're going to get there.
No, this was, you have been offered a job and do you want the job?

(20:43):
Okay, cool.
So in order to get the job, I was like, well, I've been finding a place to live.
You do.
So this is how much you would get paid because you are moving to New York.
I got a little pay raise, but I was an adult at that point.
This woman, neither of these women are my caretakers.
So it was up to me to.
find out where I was gonna live, how far that was gonna be from the store, commuting backand forth.

(21:06):
Just the struggle of being in New York, New York is expensive.
So it was a tough moment until I got my first real corporate job.
I was definitely living paycheck to paycheck, very much like scraping by.
I would say this is probably that chunk in my life that I would call myself a starvingartist, but I never took on that moniker.

(21:27):
very pissed by my confessions about myself.
And so I never said that, but that would probably be the chunk in my life where I waslike, okay, I'm working in fashion.
I want to be a designer.
Like I'm just here.
So I got to figure something out.
Like, I don't know exactly what I'm doing, but we'll figure it out.
From there you get the job at Tom Felicia.

(21:48):
You work there for a number of years.
You end up working at Robert Allen as well.
So from Robert Allen, is that when you decided that you were going to found your ownstudio?
No.
um So I worked at another firm after working at Tom Felicia.

(22:10):
I worked there for like three years and then I worked at another firm, which is, we won'ttalk about it just because it was an interesting experience.
ah
Well, I you mentioned this in past interviews and we'll talk about it a little bitbriefly.
I feel like when Black artists and BIPOC artists go on interviews, they're kind ofcornered to talk about their trauma.

(22:34):
And oh I'm not saying that's what we should talk about here, but you very plainlymentioned the...
Oh gosh, what's the word for it?
uh
gatekeeping.
The gatekeeping, you belittled, the racism when you were in this world.
you know, 2008, 2009, those were the years where there were all these big male, white malefashion designers going on.

(23:05):
And it all looked great on television, but we know what happens behind the scenes.
If you want, we certainly could talk about...
some of the things that you experienced.
Yeah, you know, I actually don't mind talking about it because I think that leading up to2020, when there was like this national, I guess, if you want to call it reckoning or

(23:30):
reawakening that black people in the workplace had been experiencing, well, black peoplein the world, but there was a huge impact on the workplace and what black people had been
experiencing within the workplace for so many years.
Not that this was new information to any of us, but I think that
All of sudden, white America was like, my God, microaggressions, you guys have beendealing with that?

(23:52):
my God, like DEI.
And it was just like, I finally felt like I wasn't crazy.
When all of that happened, I finally felt justified in feeling what I have felt my entirecorporate experience.
to really, honestly, I can umbrella each of the places that I worked at throughout mycareer within the same experiences, because it happened to me.

(24:17):
for 10 years and one coming in as a young black woman, uh a young black woman who alsolooks a lot younger than she is, I always have, but also one who is coming in educated and
well-prepared for opportunities, you're going to be questioned.
You're going to be kind of looked at like people are almost taken aback by you.

(24:41):
You're kind of strange.
You're like, hmm, who is this lady?
Like where'd she come from?
You know, why is she here?
We're in the same meetings.
Whereas, you know, we're just showing up for work.
You know, I'm showing up for work.
I'm here just like you.
I'm trying to understand what's going on with being asked of me and perform my duties fora job that I got hired for.
But your ability to perform is just always questioned.

(25:04):
The caliber of your work is always questioned.
And so for years, I was always showing up at work as the first person at work every day.
And this was all while I was working at firms because firms are a lot like the fashionindustry.
Let me be specific.
Interior design firms are very much like the fashion industry where you come in and youmust work your way up.

(25:28):
So you start at the bottom.
I don't care who you are.
I don't care where you graduated from school.
You're coming in as a junior designer or you're working in a textile library and you haveto kind of put in the work to work your way up to a desk.
to work your way up to sourcing stuff, to work your way up so that your point of view andyour creativity is taken serious?
What are you presenting to these senior designers so that they can see that you're capableenough to be put on a great design job?

(25:56):
you know, I work, honestly, throughout my career in New York, because it's such acompetitive industry, I've had the chance to work on a lot of celebrity homes.
Like all of that stuff has played, you know, just into the career.
But even in spaces like that,
You know, my white counterparts were always kind of like shunning me in a way where wewere friends because we were colleagues.

(26:18):
You know, we would laugh and we would chuckle.
But then when I would position myself to go for the senior, you know, I want to be, youknow, the project lead on this one.
was kind of like Courtney, don't be serious.
You know, so I experienced stuff like that where I was like, what do you mean?
Like, we've been here the same amount of time.
we...
put in the same amount of work.
I put in a little bit more, because I get here at 8 a.m.

(26:39):
and you guys get here at 9 30.
You know, like things like that I would experience.
And I would always just be kind of like, what?
Or every time something would go wrong on a project, if I was on the team and somethingwent wrong, I was automatically the person that was like, it was because of you that we
messed up.
That thing that you contributed in the project is obviously what went wrong.

(27:01):
And I would just be like, I don't think that's what they're saying.
I actually, sounds like Rebecca might have made a mistake.
I don't know if, yeah.
I would just be like, what are we talking about here?
I would get embarrassed in meetings.
If we were sitting in meetings and maybe like we were missing a material and missingsomething on the table and I'm sitting just like everybody else, you know, at the meeting,

(27:23):
you know, with the clients just being quiet.
unless you're the design director, you're not talking, but just kind of like, did youforget to print that out?
I was in charge of printing out X, Y, Z.
Can you go print it out?
Whoa, why am I being ran?
I'm not the Aaron girl.
Like I work here just like everybody else.
Maybe that was Samantha's job.
So maybe Samantha was supposed to print that out.

(27:43):
But it was like, I never was even given the benefit of the doubt in a lot of situations.
And so when I finally did decide like, Hey, I need a break from this, but also I want toexplore working for myself.
I spoke to one of my sales reps at a firm that I worked at and
I kind of told her like, hey, I wanna explore like textile design.

(28:06):
I would love to kind of get into this industry.
And she like introduced me to someone at Robert Allen who was hiring for a position.
And that's how it kind of transitioned because I was just tired of feeling like I was kindof stuck.
It was like, okay, well now you're a senior, know, like we gave you what you wanted.
You've gotten your pay raises, you know, but kind of like, it was just very evident to methat unless I really stopped fully being myself,

(28:32):
that like I was only gonna go so far trying to be in these particular types of firms.
And I was very specific about the firms that I was applying to.
And so, I mean, my God.
I remember one particular instance.
um I, myself and a colleague went to a client's house and the client had her dog.

(28:55):
And when we went inside the client's house, her dog was incessantly barking at me.
Okay, ma'am, get your dog.
My colleague was high black.
Obviously the woman wasn't.
And so it went on for a little too long.
Obviously, as we started, you know, it's kind of like playfully like, stop, stop, stop.

(29:15):
And then as we went further into the house, my coworker friend was like, okay, can you getyour dog?
Like your dog is literally like harassing her at this point.
Like, can you get your dog?
Can you lock him up?
Like put your dog away.
And she kind of laughs and goes, sometimes made on for little races.
I didn't even know what to say.

(29:37):
Like I shrunk so much in that moment because I was like, I can't say anything because I'mat this wealthy woman's house.
I'm representing someone else.
So what do I say that doesn't make me look combative?
What do I say that doesn't make me look like the aggressor?

(29:58):
I felt so unsafe in that moment.
And although my coworker felt
the tension and was kind of like, okay, you're fine.
Like, you'll be okay.
We kind of got through our meeting, but when we went back to the office and told our boss,they didn't confront the client.
It was just swept under the rug.

(30:18):
we're so sorry that happened to you.
That should never happen.
And no one said anything to that woman.
No one said anything to her.
You made our, you made our employee feel uncomfortable.
That is inappropriate.
You should never speak to someone like that.
Your dogs are not allowed to be out anytime we ever come back for a meeting.
I was.
kept on the project, number one.
They didn't even have the decency to take me off the project.

(30:40):
So things like that, experiences like that start to make you feel like something is wrongwith you, even though you know that it's not you.
After a while, you just start to internalize that.
And it's just kind of like, okay, my sister was telling me, you need a break.
I think you need to not work in this industry for a second, but I was like, So I justpivoted.

(31:03):
to something else, still in the industry, but just to get out of the toxic firm and yeah,a very traumatic experience.
Yeah.
And I'm sure that, you know, if we were to ask lots of other people, they would havesimilar experiences as well, which doesn't make it okay at all.

(31:27):
So it did spur you to start materials and methods design, which goes back to the classthat you took at Howard.
Can you tell me how you took your experience that
you had in New York, and I'm assuming some of the experiences that you had in DC as well.

(31:48):
And how did you use that to create the ethos of your own studio?
So obviously the biggest inspiration was the materials course that I took.
It was called Materials and Methods.
But the basis and the foundation of the company is really that in this profession, we useso many different materials to bring our concepts to life.

(32:11):
But the materials are nothing without the methods that we take to apply those.
And the way that those things come together, creates a symmetry, a synergy, I'm sorry.
that to me is what actually creates the impact.
And so I took that as a very foundational piece of starting the company.
I also wanted to have a firm that did celebrate a multicultural perspective.

(32:40):
I really strive and continue to work towards having a team and a staff that is areflection of the world and not just a small part of it.
So it's really important to me to always seek out
young ladies who are looking for opportunities.
Really important for me to always look for minorities, you know, in the emails and in theinternships that I get.

(33:02):
I'm open to everyone, but it's really important for me to really seek that out and to makesure that when people do come into my studio and they look at my staff, that they see that
there is black and brown representation here and that there is an amazing caliber of workthat's coming out of the studio.
and that these are the women that are producing it.

(33:24):
It's also been really important for me to set a foundation of education in my studio.
Whenever I have interns who work in the office, I tell them during our interviews, if youdo not leave here with something that you can include in your portfolio, then why are you
here?
We all work internships.
We have these great opportunities.

(33:45):
And then you go to an
a job interview and they're like, so what'd you learn at the internship?
And you're just verbalizing, but they can't, they're looking through your portfolio andthey're like, well, what did you do?
Show us what you did.
So it's always really important for me to make sure that obviously they're bringingskillsets, you know, with them, but also just kind of like, what do you really enjoy?

(34:05):
What do you like really trying to pinpoint things like that and encourage them tocontribute on the basis of their interests.
so that we have people who are excited about the work that we're doing.
And also just a sense of collaboration.
That's also a big thing for me.
I really enjoy getting to know my clients.

(34:27):
It's a relationship building thing.
know, like as much as we try to put design in a vacuum, I think for the most part, peopledo understand it's lot of interacting with people and getting to know people and
personalizing their spaces, but that isn't always the experience that people get whenworking with a designer.
And so I think for me that I present or try to present a casual nature in conversing sothat we're really getting to the nitty gritty of kind of like, okay, why does this work?

(34:59):
How does this work?
What are your interests?
Those sorts of things.
And I feel like they're in my experience and working places, we get to know clients, butit's very surveyed, know, very by the paper.
the way you're getting to know people, you're kind of keeping people at arm's length.
And I wanted to break down that barrier in my firm, for sure.

(35:20):
And so, yeah, I brought all of those things to the studio.
And those are the things I always look back to when I'm making decisions and thinkingabout growth.
I'm kind of like, okay, how am I still connecting?
Okay, I'm trying to be involved with Howard.
And the interior design students, that's my education piece.
Like, okay, cool.
Who are the people I'm kind of like working with and outsourcing work to?

(35:43):
Like, where am I looking for that kind of help?
Like, okay, are there other people that I can find these pools and not just, you know, atUCLA and USC and, you know, the Art Institute.
Where else can I kind of like find other students who may not, who I may not be able tojust pull up to their school and give an opportunity, but maybe, you know, just, I'm just
always kind of thinking about things like that.

(36:05):
which is wonderful because you are creating a pipeline.
All of these people who would, yes, they might have the experience to have the internship,but again, like you said, if they have nothing to show for it, if they have nothing to add
to their portfolio, it benefits them.
yeah, it's...

(36:27):
So one of the questions I have for you is how...
When you take on a new client, a new design client, and you're thinking about the design,how does the idea for the design come to you?
Hmm, different ways, different ways to be honest with you.
I will say a lot of times I just need to be in people's spaces.

(36:53):
And I always ask for a few moments where I can just sit in there where no one's in there.
Like I just need to be in the space, whether it already has your stuff and it's filled tothe brim or it's empty.
But I have a sensibility that
I have just come to be able to generate my ideas and my concepts when I'm actually in aspace.

(37:14):
I'm less of an ideator by paper in an office.
And so usually I'll just kind of start to see things like, okay, what if we use this wallfor this?
What if we use this space for this?
Okay, they said that they needed to incorporate this.
So I need to make sure that this is a part of their space.
um Okay, now that I've...

(37:35):
looked around this face and really surveyed it visually.
I visually kind of mapped out, done a little video, taken my measurements.
Then I'll usually go back to my studio and take pen to paper and start to think about, ohthis is what I'm working with.
And then these were the things that they not only need, but I also want to incorporate sothat we get a nice balance of design and also your function.

(38:02):
uh
And I'll just dump all my ideas out, whether it's on paper or on my Pinterest, I'll juststart to dump things out.
Sometimes I'll just sketch on my floor plans.
And then those concepts are out in the ether for me to look at and digest.
And then I start to build the rooms and the spaces together based off of all those ideasand those needs and wants.

(38:25):
It's so surprising how it's always different for everyone.
It's lovely to hear.
So for our last question for you Courtney, I'm curious as to how your idea of success haschanged over time.
That's a really good question.
That is a great question.
I think that going into college and thinking about a professional career is very monetarydriven.

(38:53):
You want to be successful and you want to make money and you equate money to successdirectly.
Whereas now I really have a chance from time to time and especially I was just talkingabout in this moment to reflect back.
And for me right now,
living my own prayers out loud is a sense of success.

(39:17):
You know, like, I prayed to be an entrepreneur.
I prayed to have my own studio one day that I was self-employed and that I was aninterior, not just self-employed, but that I was an interior designer and that I was
working on residential and boutique commercial projects.
I said that and I prayed that before this happened.
So now my idea of success is just continuing to make sure that my

(39:41):
align with my dreams and that not only do those two things align, but that the work thatI'm putting in also aligns with that so that I can see it come into fruition.
Because at the end of the day, faith without works is dead.
So we can talk about manifestation and we can talk about dreaming all the time.

(40:02):
But until you put the work behind those dreams, you're not gonna see them manifest.
And so my idea of success right now is focusing on what makes me happy and making surethat I'm continuing to enjoy what I'm doing.
The minute I stop enjoying what I'm doing, then my idea of success may change a little bitbecause I'm not having fun anymore.

(40:24):
And so I may start kind of shifting and maneuvering, you know?
But that's also the beauty of evolution and growth.
So to me, success is also continuing to grow and evolve as a person.
so that you're always able to contribute something to the world and not get stagnant.
Hoo-wee, that's beautiful.
That's so good.

(40:45):
that's so good.
Well, Courtney, it has been a pleasure to chat with you.
I feel like I was chatting with an old friend.
This has been so much fun.
And you just have to...
but it's the Courtney show.
It is your show.
Wow.
Oh my God.
Thank you for having me, Marti.

(41:05):
Yeah, I appreciate the conversation.
This was great.
I enjoyed it as well.
I did.
there.
I have a quick
favorite to ask you before you go.
If you're loving this show, would you mind taking a quick second to leave us a five starreview on your favorite go to podcast app?

(41:27):
Here's the thing.
Those reviews are like magic fairy dust.
They help other creators of color discover our show and tap into their own artisticsuperpowers.
While you're at it, why not subscribe to our sub stack newsletter, Creative Matters.
matters is like a weekly dose of inspiration delivered straight to your inbox.

(41:52):
You can find the link to subscribe in the show notes.
Alright, that's all that I have for you today.
I can't wait to see you on the next episode.
Bye!
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.

The Joe Rogan Experience

The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.